Ain’t no fucking ballpark neither

The anti-Manzi jihad hasn’t spread as quickly through the wingosphere as I would have hoped, but it did produce this, perhaps my favorite Red State post ever:

Mark recognizes that when you are at war, while it is important to get facts right (and I think Mark did a darned fine job sourcing his book, giving you the chance to criticize it), it is also important to inspire the troops and to do so by distilling the realities of the fight into useful information. I frankly don’t know if every statistic in Goldwater’s Conscience of a Conservative was correct or not. Nor do I know if every statistic or number in Reagan’s A Time For Choosing speech in 1964 was correct. I DON’T CARE. I know the facts were in the ballpark, and more importantly, the principles were timeless and correct. I have read Mark’s book, and I know a little about the topics in question – and it’s a good book, with good citations and a lot of good facts.

That sums up modern conservatism perfectly: I know the facts were in the ballpark.

And the ending is brilliant:

Come 2014, I will continue to use the stockpile of incandescent bulbs I plan to amass in the coming 4 years – and will gladly pay the electric bill so I can have the light I prefer to have. Forgive me for wanting the freedom to have a frigging light bulb of my choosing. I will continue to drive a gas-guzzling Jeep Wrangler if I have to hand-build an engine to replace it, because I freaking like to drive it. I will continue to flush my toilet however many times it takes to get the job done – and I will continue to take a long hot shower.

The facts are fairly clear – environmental nuts are sticking it to America and those who indulge their nonsense are living in their own bubble, while the rest of us focus on the simple truths of freedom, limited government and wanting Washington the hell out of our backyard. It is once again a time for choosing, and I choose to fight the statists – enviro and otherwise. And I will happily fight with Mark by my side while you, Mr. Manzi, keep talking in circles.






196 replies
  1. 1
    beltane says:

    And I will laugh out loud seeing those wingnuts getting fleeced at the gas pump as they proudly fill up the tanks of their SUVs. Conservatives sure love to piss away money on stupid shit and then whine about taxes.

  2. 2
    zzyzx says:

    Ah my least favorite aspect of modern conservatism, the, “Hey this pisses off liberals, so I’ll do it, even though it’s stupid,” approach to life.

    One of these days, it’ll become hip to eat lead paint or something and that strain will die off.

  3. 3
    Michael says:

    To quote Jim Robinson of Free Republic from the days of the Terri Schiavo drama:

    “Facts Don’t Matter”

  4. 4
    gnomedad says:

    He left out “no matter how many soldiers and brown foreigners have to die to keep the oil flowing.”
    Wolverines!, also.

  5. 5
    gwangung says:

    @beltane:

    Conservatives sure love to piss away money on stupid shit and then whine about taxes.

    ..which are being spent on Those Kind of People Who Waste Money.

  6. 6
    Waynski says:

    I think the CAP sentence should have read, “I DON’T CARE ABOUT ANYONE BUT MYSELF.” He could have somed words there.

  7. 7
    David in NY says:

    Ah, modern conservatism:

    Me, me, me, me, me, me …. And GFY.

    EDIT: OK, Waynski got there first.

  8. 8
    liberal says:

    Come 2014, I will continue to use the stockpile of incandescent bulbs I plan to amass in the coming 4 years …

    Despite being into energy conservation (hate SUVs, think something should be done about global warming, etc), I agree with him here, assuming that my recollection that incandescent bulbs will be hard to get is correct.

    For a lot of applications, CFLs are fine. On the other hand, for lights which will be used very infrequently, for short amounts of time, they don’t made sense.

    Furthermore, in my basement office, I replaced all six BR40 bulbs with CFL equivalents. One brand I bought, four of the six burned out in less than a year. That really sucks and probably totally hoses the mercury emission arithmetic used to support CFLs.

    A much better idea is to levy a high tax on incandescents.

  9. 9
    4tehlulz says:

    Shorter conservative: My right to waste resources is absolute.

  10. 10
    Citizen_X says:

    I DON’T CARE.

    Awesome. That’s becoming my new motto. Teabaggers, move out! Forward to Stoopid!

  11. 11
    beltane says:

    @zzyzx: Al Gore needs to go out and preach that consuming rat poison is bad for the environment. It would be interesting to see what happens.

  12. 12
    liberal says:

    @beltane:

    Conservatives sure love to piss away money on stupid shit and then whine about taxes.

    One of my favorite hobbies is to read blog comments about how good it is that we deposed Saddam and then reply “Another right-winger who doesn’t understand basic cost/benefit analysis.”

  13. 13
    JenJen says:

    Dude will probably be stockpiling salt shakers soon, too. I’d love to see this douchebag’s basement. Maybe it’ll be on the next “Hoarders”?

  14. 14
    dmsilev says:

    Hey wingnuts! Barack Obama just gave a speech where he advocated looking both ways before stepping out into traffic.

    dms

  15. 15
    slightly_peeved says:

    I will continue to flush my toilet however many times it takes to get the job done

    I’m surprised there’s much left for the toilet after he’s finished sticking this shit on his blog.

  16. 16
    FormerSwingVoter says:

    And I will happily fight with Mark by my side while you, Mr. Manzi, keep talking in circles.

    How is it “talking in circles” to say “this is where he’s wrong, and he’s painfully, stupidly, embarressingly wrong”? That seems… pretty straightforward, really.

  17. 17
    Robin G says:

    …are we sure, I mean really really sure, that this isn’t some sort of Yes Man performance art? Because otherwise, there is some serious shark-jumping going on here.

  18. 18
    liberal says:

    @slightly_peeved:
    Actually, he might also be right about low-flush toilets. At least the one the previous owners stuck us with in the basement is a real pain in the ass (no pun intended)—leave a rather large calling card, and your choice is either an overflow, or flushing by filling a bucket in the bath and dumping it into the toilet.

    I’m sure there are good CFLs and low-flow toilets out there, but …

  19. 19
    flounder says:

    Amen. That is one epic rant against saving money and telling the truth.

  20. 20
    TR says:

    I will continue to flush my toilet however many times it takes to get the job done

    I always assumed most conservatives were full of shit, but I had no idea they were *that* full.

  21. 21
    cleek says:

    Ah my least favorite aspect of modern conservatism, the, “Hey this pisses off liberals, so I’ll do it, even though it’s stupid,” approach to life.

    it’s one of my favorite aspects; by defining themselves as the opposite of whatever liberals are doing that day, the intellectual hollowness of “conservatism” is made manifest. they are pure reaction. knee-jerks.

    if their contribution to the conversation is to prefix everything you say with a logical NOT, then there’s no reason to pay any attention to them.

  22. 22
    jibeaux says:

    “facts were in the ballpark”, that’s good. Hey, my Heels were in the ballpark of an NCAA repeat! Shut up.
    I’m just going to fb groupwhore a little bit a satirical group responding to the “obama death prayer” group, but only because I think it needs more submissions, and of course I thought of you guys.

  23. 23
    El Cid says:

    This is why on an earlier thread I linked to Mussolini’s Doctrine of Fascism explaining that what was important to the conservative tribe wasn’t yer damn ay-leet ‘logik’ & ‘argeemints’ but will, struggle, unity of purpose.

    Subjugating the will to power for some argument or evidence means you lack sufficient dedication, sufficient commitment. The struggle is all. Actions define you.

  24. 24
    gnomedad says:

    @liberal:
    I was a nerdy early CFL adopter, and my experience is that the range of quality is astonishing. Once you eliminate the really cheap ones, which generally suck, the correlation of quality with price is not strong. Curiously, the daylight type of various brands have performed well for me. Not A Scientific Study.

    That said, I think the incandescent ban is misspent PR capital.

  25. 25
    beltane says:

    @liberal: We just put in a Kohler toilet that works better than the water-waster we used to have. You get what you pay for in toilet-land.

  26. 26
    Cat Lady says:

    Wind that cocoon tighter and tighter, nutballs. What could go wrong?

  27. 27
    slag says:

    All thru’ the day I me mine, I me mine, I me mine.

    Isn’t this the Republican 2010 Comeback slogan?

  28. 28
    jibeaux says:

    Now my page is coming up with a “bulborama” ad, which strikes me as funny.

    Anyway, I did order some compact fluorescents online, which seemed silly at first, but I needed those internal floodlight types, and I wanted them in compact fluorescents. They were a lot cheaper online than at the big box home repair store. Just something to keep in mind if you, you know, like saving money.

  29. 29
    El Cid says:

    KEEP YER DANG YANKEE HANDS OFFA MAH EDISON BULB!

  30. 30
    vishnu schist says:

    “god said it, I believe it, that settles it” – I’m quite sure that more than a few teabaggers have this little nugget on some teashirt (sic) or bumper sticker. Pretty much sums up the whole mentality. Will future generations consider “Idiocracy” a sage cautionary tale? Well no, they’ll be too fucking stupid to understand it. Sully had a post asking “What do conservatives want?” My answer – a stupid, gullible population who can march lockstep into the bonfire.

  31. 31
    SpotWeld says:

    re: the second quote.

    Is he trying to turn being and @sshole into a form of economic stimulus?

  32. 32
    MattF says:

    So, the American version of “Triumph of the Will” is “Triumph of the Feces”. Tragedy, I’d like you to meet Farce.

  33. 33
    Michael says:

    Shoulda heard my mother’s rant about the diminishing availability of AC lights for the yard. She’s a Beck-listening wingnut who would do just about anything for a white male Southern pol with a redneck affectation, and she was having a fit at the local Home Depot about the evils of going green. See, she wanted to spotlight her azaleas, and didn’t feel like the solar lights did a good enough job of that.

    When I said that it really isn’t that important that she spotlight her azaleas, I got a stoney silence, and she hasn’t returned my calls for days.

  34. 34
    beltane says:

    @El Cid: Your point is an important one. That is why arguing with right-wingers on the merits is a complete waste of time. Unfortunately, they must be mocked for who they are, not because their arguments are flawed.

    George Orwell once said that fascism would not take root in England for the simple reason that the sight of people goose-stepping in the streets would make the British public giggle uncontrollably.

    Pointing and laughing is the best way to deal with these clowns.

  35. 35
    beltane says:

    @Michael: Tell her she can stand outside all night with a flashlight. That would get the job done.

  36. 36
    joe from Lowell says:

    I propose that this little rant be thrown back in Red State’s pimply face every single time they make a claim about climate scientists being dishonest.

  37. 37
    slag says:

    @liberal:

    A much better idea is to levy a high tax on incandescents.

    I’d prefer to see an environmental compensation fee on all energy consumption, and then let the chips fall where they may. However, so many energy taxes/fees are highly regressive (as poor southerners would eventually find out), so this problem is a tough one to solve.

  38. 38
    slag says:

    @joe from Lowell: Except a lot of climate scientists aren’t being dishonest while a lot of Red Staters are. False equivalence.

  39. 39
    DarcyPennell says:

    @liberal:

    The first generation of low-flush toilets were really, really bad. The technology has improved a lot in recent years especially from Japanese manufacturers. But any new low-flush toilet will probably work better than one made in the mid 90s.

  40. 40
    de stijl says:

    Ballpark Facts(tm): They plump when you cook ’em!

  41. 41
    dan says:

    “I DON’T CARE. I know the facts were in the ballpark.”

    Definition of truthiness. It doesn’t have to be true. It has to FEEL true.

  42. 42
    El Cid says:

    @vishnu schist:

    Will future generations consider “Idiocracy” a sage cautionary tale?

    During the Bush Jr. years, Idiocracy was an instruction and planning guide.

  43. 43
    gnomedad says:

    If “conservatives” weren’t batshit insane, I would actually be more sympathetic to some of these complaints. The approach of choice should be removing subsidies to resource consumption (including trillion-dollar wars) and taxing environmental side-effects, not telling people how to use the resources. Yes, with assistance to low-income people most affected by price increases.

  44. 44
    Zifnab says:

    and I will continue to take a long hot shower.

    Mental image – DO NOT WANT

    @beltane:

    George Orwell once said that fascism would not take root in England for the simple reason that the sight of people goose-stepping in the streets would make the British public giggle uncontrollably.

    Explain Margaret Thatcher.
    You don’t always need goose-stepping brown shirts to achieve fascism. The NSA didn’t wear funny hats while they were spying on US citizenry. The Israelis weren’t heiling while they bombed Lebanon or bull-dozed another string of Palestinian homes. Even the Tea Baggers don’t goose step.

  45. 45
    El Cid says:

    @de stijl: That’s good!

  46. 46
    gnomedad says:

    Getting your facts straight is so anal-retentive.

  47. 47
    FormerSwingVoter says:

    Shorter RedState:

    GRAAAAH!!! RAAARGABRLBLRAAHHH!!! HATE! HAAAATE! RAAAAAAGE!!! GRAAAAAAAAAABRBBLLRBLRBLE!!!

  48. 48
    mr. whipple says:

    I agree with him on the lightbulbs. These new things suck.

  49. 49
    cleek says:

    I know the facts were in the ballpark, and more importantly, the principles were timeless and correct.

    oddly, RedState seems to have a lot of fun using the phrase “fake but accurate” to mock liberals.

    it’s almost as if they possess no intellectual honesty at all.

  50. 50
  51. 51
    Funkhauser says:

    Come 2014, I will continue to use the stockpile of incandescent bulbs I plan to amass in the coming 4 years – and will gladly pay the electric bill so I can have the light I prefer to have.

    Come 2014, I’m going to be in Rio de Janeiro to watch the World Cup as hosted by the (current) five-time champions.

    That’s the only relevance that year has for me. I would assume that’s also the end of incandescent bulbs, but I don’t let my life revolve around stupid sh-t like that.

  52. 52
  53. 53
    ppcli says:

    @beltane:
    In a similar vein, one of my favorite sayings of H.L. Menken:
    “One horse-laugh is worth a thousand syllogisms”.

  54. 54
    Mar says:

    The funny thing about modern day “statists” is that they don’t seem to fight for the states to regulate anything either. They just want ZERO regulation, which creates a huge vacuum. When there’s zero regulation, the tragedy of the commons occurs, and the most aggressive and greedy people will then horde all the resources.

    I’m all about the “laboratory of the states” if Republican states actually regulated s***. If I could choose between state regulation and federal regulation, I’d choose state regulation 9 times out of 10. But it seems like more often than not we’re given the choice between federal regulation and ZERO regulation. In that situation, I’d rather have federal regulation.

  55. 55
    El Cid says:

    @Zifnab:

    You don’t always need goose-stepping brown shirts to achieve fascism.

    Orwell wrote a preface to 1984 adding the context of how thought control is managed in free societies as opposed to the sort of totalitarian society portrayed in the novel.

    The publishers, of course, censored it and left it unpublished. For freedom, presumably.

  56. 56
    Cat Lady says:

    @ppcli:

    Which brings us back to Jon Stewart, the most dangerous man in America for wingnuts.

  57. 57
    Zifnab says:

    @gnomedad:

    The approach of choice should be removing subsidies to resource consumption (including trillion-dollar wars) and taxing environmental side-effects, not telling people how to use the resources.

    Serious conservatives might take those ideas up on their merits. But if you tossed the idea out of pulling subsidies for coal and oil companies, the conservatives would just call it a tax and bemoan your cruel attack on the economy.

    That’s the double-edged logic of the conservative whine mind. You can’t offer support to green industry, because it’s socia lism and unfair to hard working coal industry execs. But you can’t yank support from fossil fuels, because it would cause prices to rise and the economy to stagnate. And you sure as hell can’t do both at once, because then you’d be favoring green energy over All American Fuels.

    It’s a pretzel of logic that really just boils down to “Don’t fix it!”

  58. 58
    beltane says:

    @Zifnab: It is possible to have a “soft totalitarianism” without the type of classical fascism that El Cid was referring to in his link. The teabagger/militia movement would have the potential to become old-style fascism if its adherents were mostly young people.

  59. 59
    Napoleon says:

    @liberal:

    For a lot of applications, CFLs are fine. On the other hand, for lights which will be used very infrequently, for short amounts of time, they don’t made sense.

    GE light bulb division is located at the large Nela Park facility here in the Cleveland area. In the last week or two they had someone from it on one of the local tv shows demonstrating a LED light they now have that throws of light just like an incandescent (ie, a 360 degree field) that they have just now started producing. That is the future light you will use.

  60. 60
    scav says:

    @mr. whipple: Seriously, are the newer ones bad? I’ve got some that are definitely more than a decade old (based on the shape – big ungainly untwisted ones). In the hallway by the front door so they’re not that low use either.

  61. 61
    matoko_chan says:

    A Letter to Conor Friedersdorf.

    Dear Conor.
    I read with interest your latest victimhood posts on race and the Tea Party.
    The Left Uses Race as a Cudgel and No, Really, the Left Uses Race as a Cudgel.
    You are having problems in the comments because your posts are counter-rational on observation of empirical data.
    You know Conor…..it is just unbearable to me how wilfully dishonest the conservative intelligentsia has become.
    OBVIOUSLY by empirical observation the two sub-populations are DIFFERENT.
    Tea Party SUPPORTERS do likely conform to the CNN poll in demographic makeup and have democrats and paulites.
    However Tea Party ATTENDEES and ACTIVISTS selfselect for rabid enthusiasm.
    Tea Party ATTENDEES are probably 99% non-hispanic cauc and 99% conservative christian or “tea party christian.”
    Tea Party christians apparently endorse Palin, DeMint, and the establishment of a theocracy composed of white southern conservative christians.

    Surely you are aware of this Conor….you are a bright guy.
    Why throw chaff? The only people you are fooling is your low-information (read low-IQ) base.
    The media is not “misrepresenting” tea party attendees.
    Neither are Palin or DeMint.

    And black citizens, jewish citizens, hispanic citizens, college educated citizens, young citizens, intellectual citizens and elite citizens are going to avoid the the tea party rallies exactly like minorities avoided the Weimar rallies the Tea Parties have become.
    We aren’t fooled….you can only fool your base anymore.
    That is why Goldberg’s book is such a rich joke.
    White christian conservatism has degenerated into religious fascism.

    I understand the principle of religious freedom in America. It was very important to the founders and framers. But Jefferson at least meant the rest of us get to be free from YOUR religion.

  62. 62
    handy says:

    In that situation, I’d rather have federal regulation.

    Commie!

  63. 63
    me says:

    “I’ve given a million ladies a million [copies of Atlas Shrugged], and they all meant something.”

  64. 64
    El Cid says:

    Living as I do in a Southern, conservative (usually Republican)-dominated state which makes a fetish out of having weak regulation, I find the notion of the ‘laboratory of the states’ more like letting industries themselves figure out what they think is the best level of e-coli to leave in meat.

  65. 65
    Jason says:

    It’s a nice counterpoint to Douthat’s “we could just defend Levin as ‘entertainment'” follow-up. Strangely, I find RedState more honest and compelling on this one point. I don’t know whether Douthat’s later take on Manzi’s response is glib or ignorant, but if it’s not as stupid as RS on the surface, it benefits from being more deeply stupid.

  66. 66
    matoko_chan says:

    dayum….could someone fish my comment out of moderation please?
    i used too many links.
    >:(

  67. 67
    Randy P says:

    Several high-wattage rooms in our house are floodlight fixtures on dimmers, installed by a previous owner. I was hoping to switch to CFLs, and if you search on the web you can find claims that dimmable compact fluorescents exist.

    I found that existence was exaggerated. The guy at the electrical store told me that everybody who’d tried to manufacture them had stopped because they don’t really work. I don’t know if there will ever be CFLs that are compatible with the standard incandescent dimmer switch. I’m OK with replacing the switch if that’s what it takes, but that’s going to be a large pain for a lot of people.

    I’m kind of wondering what the European experience with dimmers is, since my understanding is that the EU has already banned incandescents.

  68. 68
    Michael says:

    @Zifnab:

    It’s a pretzel of logic that really just boils down to “Don’t fix it!”

    It comes down to the fact that conservatives are the laziest, greediest, most entitlement minded people on the planet.

  69. 69
  70. 70
    mr. whipple says:

    @scav:

    “Seriously, are the newer ones bad? ”

    We replaced the kitchen light fixture with them. They are darker, I don’t care what they say. And I don’t like the color. They are superior in places where you need light, but not a lot of it.

    Plus, I don’t know what’s gonna become of the EZ bake ovens now.

  71. 71
    Michael says:

    @Randy P:

    I was hoping to switch to CFLs, and if you search on the web you can find claims that dimmable compact fluorescents exist.

    My dimmables work.

  72. 72
    Randy P says:

    @Michael: What brand and do you live in the US? Did you buy them in the US? When?

  73. 73
    Bubblegum Tate says:

    @beltane:

    Pointing and laughing is the best way to deal with these clowns.

    Indeed–and then, they will frequently start whining about “Alinksy tactics,” which makes the whole thing even funnier.

  74. 74
    lawguy says:

    Well it kind of sounds like the beginning of the “Invisible Man” by Ellison.

  75. 75
    El Cid says:

    @Randy P: There are dimmable LED’s. But dimmers in and of themselves reduce energy usage — they cycle on/off and so if incandescent lights are dimmed they’re using less power than when fully lit.

  76. 76
    S. cerevisiae says:

    Who needs that fancy-ass science? I gots GUT FEELINGS!

  77. 77
    Allan says:

    Once you realize that facts have a liberal bias, it becomes easy to reject them.

  78. 78
    Randy P says:

    The facts are fairly clear – environmental nuts are sticking it to America

    And even if those aren’t the facts, they’re in the ballpark of the facts. Or at least they feel like they could be in the ballpark of the facts.

  79. 79
    mr. whipple says:

    Joe Biden up next on The View.

    This is a BFD.

  80. 80
  81. 81
    Michael says:

    @Randy P:

    What brand and do you live in the US? Did you buy them in the US? When?

    2-3 years ago, in Kentucky. Don’t remember the brand – picked them up at either a Kroger or Home Depot, as I remember.

  82. 82
    Annie says:

    while the rest of us focus on the simple truths of freedom, limited government and wanting Washington the hell out of our backyard.

    Except, of course, for the Christian right — they can stay and tell us what to do — remember according to the conservative Queen Sarah, our founding fathers never intended God to be separated from our government.

  83. 83
    El Cid says:

    IF’N I DON’T WANT IT FIX’D THEN IT AIN’T BROKE

  84. 84
    El Cid says:

    @Michael: George Washington did not invent the incandescent bulb so that Obama Hitler Stalin could take it and our guns away.

  85. 85
    russell says:

    It’s dumbass as a gestalt.

  86. 86
    Zifnab says:

    @El Cid:

    I find the notion of the ‘laboratory of the states’ more like letting industries themselves figure out what they think is the best level of e-coli to leave in meat.

    It’s not as bad as all of that. Go back fifty years or so and you can track some of the common problems the states faced that didn’t really have a foundational solution. No one really knew how to build an interstate highway. No one really knew how to structure a modern school system. No one really knew how to build a modern electricity grid.

    Had the Feds stepped in and implemented a one-size-fits-all system, they likely would have offered up a sub-optimal solution. So states and localities experimented, and the most successful projects were used as models in other areas, until the Feds would finally step in and codify whatever was believed to work best.

    So now you’ve got cloverleaf turnpikes and school districts run by superintendents and school boards and utility companies linked to customers by networks of power lines.

    The laboratory of the states works great when the people embrace the most efficient systems, once they see what succeeds and fails. But when conservatives decide to regionalize and stereotype, you get ignorant nonsense about San Fransisco Values and Massholes and Limosine Liberals making people afraid to adopt good policy because it originated from out of town.

  87. 87
    kay says:

    @mr. whipple:

    Dick Durbin was absolutely pitch-perfect on finance reform yesterday. Calm, organized, and confident. He was in control, and he wouldn’t accept the premise and focus the media chose, which was “how will this harm finance?” He deftly turned it around, to “what is the benefit to taxpayers/consumers?”

    Just a great, great job. They were asking the wrong questions, and he wouldn’t accept that. It changed the whole discussion.

  88. 88
    Ed Drone says:

    @Michael:

    I know the facts were in the ballpark, and more importantly, the principles were timeless and correct.

    As I read somewhere else recently, all the stories in the Bible are true, and some of them really happened. This is proof that conservatism is a myth (in the meaning of “a set of beliefs not necessarily related to actual fact) and that believers in conservatism are cultists.

    Not to say that we liberals don’t hold our beliefs tightly, too, it’s just that, when faced with facts that don’t ‘match,’ we are more likely to challenge our beliefs, and even change them. I can’t say I’ve met many conservatives who would/will do that.

    Ed

  89. 89
    mds says:

    @Tenzil Kem:

    Thanks for providing the link. Although “incandescant lighting ban” is an in-the-ballpark description of the regulation, it actually sets efficiency requirements that are met by CFLs but not present-day incandescants. If someone does indeed make a much more efficient incandescant bulb, it will be perfectly legal to sell. Think of this as minimum EPA mileage ratings for bulbs.

  90. 90
    Zifnab says:

    @Annie: But they did intend for the government to leave the people the hell alone. Ergo, Sarah Palin is an atheist. QED.

  91. 91
    SRW1 says:

    Weak in the spirit, but sound in the faith.

    Hasn’t that always been the conservative dogma?

  92. 92
    geg6 says:

    @liberal:

    I’m not sure what kind of CFLs you’ve been buying, but as of a year ago, I replaced the last of my incandescents with CFLs. I haven’t bought a lightbulb now in 3 years and I have no problems at all with any of my lights whether I’m using them for 12 hours or 12 seconds. I’ve heard this complaint about CFLs not coming on right away from others but have not experienced that at all with any of mine. And I’ve bought at least two brands.

    This puzzles me, though I assume it must be a brand issue.

  93. 93
    gnomedad says:

    @Zifnab:
    Totally agree.

    BTW, I was searching for CFL reviews just now; this page seems to cut to the chase and recommend units that work well.

  94. 94
    El Cid says:

    @Zifnab: You’re right. It’s not always as bad as all that.

    And a lot of times, it is.

    It’s the same as the industry parallel I gave — sure, tremendous and worthwhile innovations come out of industry, and so do all sorts of awful and deadly results.

    In effect, for example, the rest of the nation is risking dumber, fraudulently educated children because some crazy shits in Texas want to fuck textbooks up.

    This is the point of federal standards — states and other governments, when appropriate, should have leeway to implement a variety of ways of achieving them.

    As an individual, I do not in any way identify with nor admire more local government than federal government — local government can be just as authoritarian as anyone’s nightmare of federal government run amok, just cellular reactionism.

  95. 95
    geg6 says:

    @cleek:

    This. Though I disagree with with not paying attention to them. By not paying attention to them at all, you’ll miss a lot of comedy gold.

  96. 96
    drunken hausfrau says:

    Wow ! Is this some of that “epistemic closure” you kids have been talking about? I didn’t realize it involved toilets…

  97. 97
    MTiffany says:

    Forgive me for wanting the freedom to have a frigging light bulb of my choosing.

    Fuck you, no.

    I will continue to drive a gas-guzzling Jeep Wrangler if I have to hand-build an engine to replace it, because I freaking like to drive it.

    Because peak oil is an enrvironmentalist plot, lie, myth and conspiracy, and we all know Sweet Baby Jesus will wave His Almighty Magic Wand and create as much petroleum as needed to keep self-indulgent assholes happy because He loves ‘Murikkka.

    I will continue to flush my toilet however many times it takes to get the job done…

    And when you’re that full of almighty self-righteous shit, that’s a lot of fucking flushes.

    …and I will continue to take a long hot shower.

    Scrub as you might, your filth goes all the way to the bone.

    environmental nuts are sticking it to America and those who indulge their nonsense are living in their own bubble, while the rest of us focus on the simple truths of freedom, limited government and wanting Washington the hell out of our backyard.

    Because when it comes right down to it, freedom may not be free, but oil sure as hell is.

  98. 98
    El Cid says:

    I WILL CONTINUE TO SUPPORT SENDING SOMEONE ELSE’S KID TO FIGHT FOR THE OIL I KEEP WANTING TO USE

    THIS – IS – FARTA!

  99. 99
    Zifnab says:

    @Ed Drone:

    Not to say that we liberals don’t hold our beliefs tightly, too, it’s just that, when faced with facts that don’t ‘match,’ we are more likely to challenge our beliefs, and even change them. I can’t say I’ve met many conservatives who would/will do that.

    Well, that’s the thing. Liberals have some core beliefs about social justice and civil liberties. If you present evidence that cocaine trafficking is creating poverty and crime, you might see a progressive embrace a stronger police state to combat the influx of drugs. Then, later, if you see the minority or poverty class continue to suffer under the police state while drug related violence actually escalates, you might suggest decriminalization of cocaine.

    The policy changes, but the end goal is always to reduce poverty and crime.

    By contrast, conservatives can start out sharing the same core beliefs – that we should try and reduce poverty and crime – but completely ignore the evidence once they’ve set their path. Increased crime and poverty as a result of police crack downs is ignored, and the conservative simply calls for an even stronger police presence and even harsher drug laws on the gut assumption that what they are doing should work.

    Pretty soon, concerns for poverty and crime go out the window as the conservative just tries to rationalize continuation of the policy.

    This wasn’t always true, of course. But conservatives have become so aligned with the GOP, and the GOP has become so obsessed with winning the next news cycle at all costs, that the policy wraps up the party – and by extension the ideology – too tightly to afford any kind of change. Add money to the mix, and a lucrative (for political backers) policy that has no Main Street positive effect will be justified over and over again, just to keep the business and the conservative politician on the government payroll.

  100. 100
    JD Rhoades says:

    The newspaper I write a weekly column for (in a very red part of an intermittently red state) recently initiated a “comments” section on the website. I’ve responded to some of the wackier teabagger comments in the column with actual facts, cites to authorities, etc. The response (and I swear I am not making this up)?

    “You think just because you can goggle information you are somehow smart. A fact or two does not make for a coherent argument”

    Despair is getting harder and harder to fight off.

  101. 101
    El Cid says:

    @JD Rhoades: WHEN YU TAK YER GOGGLES OFF YER DAM FACKS AIN’T WURF A DAM

  102. 102
    Ed Drone says:

    @Michael:

    My dimmables work.

    Despite the temptation to put a remark about RedState denizens, etc., in this, all I want to say is mine didn’t, despite their horrendous cost (compared to regular bulbs).

    Ed

  103. 103
    steve says:

    I know the facts were in the ballpark

    the Washington Generals were in the same ballpark as the Globetrotters….

  104. 104
    JD Rhoades says:

    @El Cid:

    Oh, you’ve read the paper, then?

  105. 105

    You know spurred by the ideas upthread I think the next speech POTUS gives should include the following:

    “You know we have often said that eating raw chicken is bad for you, and of course it is, and of course everyone, every freedom loving American patriot has a right to eat raw chicken if they so choose. However, sometimes the Federal Government has to step in and save people from themselves, because of a whole bunch of things, because of the consequences. So as of today I will be proposing legislation that will ban the following: a) eating raw chicken, b) throwing a frozen turkey into a vat full of boiling peanut oil, c) using the gasoline that powers your lawn mower to light the charcoal in the barbeque grill, d) handing your beer to your buddy and saying “hey watch this”, e) drinking while driving a riding lawn mower (see also gun cleaning, hunting, riding ATVs) f) playing russian roulette with an “unloaded” gun, g) eating seven big macs washed down with four pints of full fat milk, h) poking angry bears with sticks. While the list is not yet exhaustive I believe as we fine tune the legislation we will be able to protect Freedom Loving American Patriots from themselves and therefore benefit all of mankind. Thank you”

    That should cull the herd quite a bit don’t you think?

  106. 106
    Ben Lehman says:

    If I can quote from pulp fiction:
    “It ain’t the same ballpark, it ain’t the same league, it ain’t even the same sport.”

  107. 107
    JD Rhoades says:

    @Bubblegum Tate:

    Indeed—and then, they will frequently start whining about “Alinksy tactics,” which makes the whole thing even funnier.

    Yeah, the “Alinsky tactics” meme must have been on Glenn Beck or Hannity or something, because I get that whine a lot now.

    Five bucks says not one in 20 of them has any idea who Saul Alinksy was, but he shore duz sound skeery, whut with thet Joosh name an’ all.’

  108. 108
    Silver Owl says:

    Redstate is very childish.

  109. 109
    S. cerevisiae says:

    Chimp DNA is in the same ballpark with human DNA, so therefore chimps=humans.

  110. 110
    steve says:

    I was asking an Army buddy about why it is that conservatives can pretend that oil isn’t running out, etc, when even the Army, hardly a bunch of liberal environmentalists, are putting out statements saying they’re conserned about serious oil shortages a mere 5 years from now, and he replied “Because the Army has to deal with reality.”

  111. 111
    mr. whipple says:

    Bot alert: Obama speaking on Wall Street now.

  112. 112
    Uloborus says:

    You guys talking about whether your dimmables work, how long they last – wouldn’t one of the aspects of getting rid of incandescents by creating standards for light bulbs be to get rid of the underperforming CFLs?

  113. 113
    Hypnos says:

    “I don’t care”, or more precisely “I don’t give a damn” is in fact one of the leading slogans of Italian fascism, both before and after the war.

    Fascist marching song from 1920:
    O fascisti, avanti, avanti,
    che già venne la riscossa,
    or non più la turba rossa
    questo suol calpesterà!

    Oh fascists, come on, come on
    the time for raising up has come
    no longer will the red mob
    tread on this soil

    Per d’Annunzio e Mussolini
    eia, eia, eia, alalà!

    Me ne frego
    me ne frego
    me ne frego è il nostro motto,
    me ne frego di morire
    per la santa libertà!…

    For d’Annunzio and Mussolini
    eia, eia, eia, alalà!

    I don’t give a damn
    I don’t give a damn
    I don’t give a damn is our motto
    I don’t give a damn about death
    for holy freedom!

    You catch the drift. The post-war version is scarier still. The second stanza goes:

    Ce ne freghiamo della galera,
    camicia nera trionferà.
    Se non trionfa
    sarà un macello
    col manganello
    e le bombe a man!

    We don’t give a damn about jail
    blackshirt will triumph
    If it doesn’t triumph
    it will be a mess
    with truncheons
    and hand-grenades

  114. 114

    I will continue to drive a gas-guzzling Jeep Wrangler if I have to hand-build an engine to replace it

    Sorry. It’s just the thought of a flabby mouth-breathing Red Stater trying to hand build anything but a sandwich makes me laugh real hard.

  115. 115
    Martian Buddy says:

    I know the facts were in the ballpark….

    Yes, just like the San Diego Chicken is “in the ballpark.”

    And as for the light bulbs, I’m hoping that LED light bulbs become a viable replacement–but then, I consider efficiency to be a good thing.

  116. 116
    scav says:

    @mr. whipple: Well, they’re apparently bringing back Polaroid film for aficionados so I’m sure Easy Bake will survive. I must just have gotten used to / prefer less light. It’s not like I’m tripping over anything and I can read so that about covers my needs. (and how dull does that make my life sound?!)

  117. 117
    Tom says:

    I stopped reading here…

    I have neither the desire and time nor the expertise to analyze in detail Manzi’s specific criticisms of Levin’s Liberty and Tyranny –

    Yet you write eight more paragraphs criticizing Manzi’s criticism. Doesn’t this prove Manzi’s point better than anything he could have written himself?

  118. 118
    Woodrowfan says:

    I read somewhere that if your CFL bulbs keep going bad you should have your wiring checked. I’ve replaced almost every light with them in my house over the past several years and I haven’t have one burn out or go bad yet and I’ve bought several different brands from several sources (and I tend to buy the less expensive ones)…

  119. 119
    Joel says:

    I will continue to flush my toilet however many times it takes to get the job done – and I will continue to take a long hot shower.

    From my limited exposure to wingnuts, I doubt that the italicized is currently true, nor will it be true in the future.

  120. 120
  121. 121
    SGEW says:

    Conor “Sully co-Borg” Friedersdorf rounds up the right wing’s reaction to the Manzi post here.

    . . . suffice it to say that thus far — and it is yet early, so we may see better responses today — the reaction to Mr. Manzi’s post suggest that Julian Sanchez was right, and ought to persuade Jonah Goldberg that there is indeed an epistemic closure problem on the right, regardless of whether or not the same things exist on the left . . . . It is glaringly evident that no one has even attempted to refute his arguments . . . . it cannot escape [National Review‘s] attention that his critics occupy a closed information loop that has misled them about the truth.

    It’s cute how he thinks that Goldberg “ought” to be persuaded by anything, or how things “cannot” escape the attention of the National Review. Epistemic closure indeed!

    [Julian Sanchez is teh win for starting all this, btw]

  122. 122
  123. 123
    bootsy says:

    “Selfishness Now! Selfishness Forever!”

    Conservatives: Rich, Racist six-year olds with guns.

  124. 124
    Lumpenprole says:

    He should stock up on those Double Down sandwiches too. Liberals hate those things. All those layers of meat fortified with hormones, salt and manly fat make Libtards furious with envy.

  125. 125
    Gus says:

    @liberal: That’s interesting. I used to burn through a shitload of incandescents for some reason, so much so that I thought the wiring in my 100 year old house was messed up. I’ve been slowly replacing them with CFL over the last couple years, and I have yet to replace a CFL bulb. I wonder if there’s a big difference in brands or something.

  126. 126
    steve says:

    But when conservatives decide to regionalize and stereotype, you get ignorant nonsense about San Fransisco Values and Massholes and Limosine Liberals

    there’s a good TED talk where a guy shows that they’ve found Loyalty to the Group to be considered much more important to conservatives than to liberals.

  127. 127
    Joel says:

    @liberal: The answer for short-duration lighting is LEDs. Too bad they’re so ungodly expensive right now, but even at their current price they would represent a massive energy consumption and cost savings if they were used widescale in business and industrial lighting applications.

  128. 128

    Well knock me over with Erick Erickson’s brain. Conservatives have been mad at the Supreme Court since it decided to desegregate the schools in 1954 and seen fit to blame the federal government for everything that has happened since then that they don’t like.

  129. 129
    PeakVT says:

    Mark recognizes that when you are at war, while it is important to get facts right … it is also important to inspire the troops and to do so by distilling the realities of the fight into useful information.

    Yeah, I’m sure some PFC slogging through a field in Kandahar in 120 degree heat is sustained only by idiotic right-wing screeds written by a bunch of armchair generals.

    Fucking narcissistic asshole.

  130. 130
    matoko_chan says:

    @SGEW: there is a reason there are no comments at NRO.
    Someone should write a book called Christian Fascism.
    The caterwauling at NRO would be Epic.

  131. 131
    handy says:

    @SGEW:

    For a little extra context to that piece, here is another piece by Manzi on AGW. Here he stakes out the easy “Maybe AGW is real but who knows it’s all too early to say” fence straddling position. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, but highlights the silliness of the attacks on him by his cohort at NRO.

  132. 132
    jibeaux says:

    @PeakVT:

    I think “troops” must mean the 82nd Chairborne Keyboard Commandoes. Or that ballpark.

    Saw a tweet along the lines of, say Happy Holidays and it’s “war”. But boy is it fun to say F the planet on Earth day!

  133. 133
    GregB says:

    Barack Obama is forcing his thick black agenda into our epistemic closure.

    The Tea-Party Confederacy of Dunces

  134. 134
    Bill E Pilgrim says:

    So wait a moment, right wingnuttia has now become this place where liberals are trying to shove fancy light bulbs down their throat and make them use “money”, whereas they prefer to set up barter societies using farm animals, burning kerosene lamps and cooking with open fires….

    Is it just me or have we gone full left-right swap here with communes from the 60s?

  135. 135
    feebog says:

    I drive a SUV. Had it for 11 years. It gets so-so gas mileage for an SUV. However, we need it for my wife’s business, so I’m going to buy another one. Only this one will be slightly smaller and will get twice the mileage. In the meantime, I try to combine my trips and minimize driving. I also have cut my water use by 40% this year simply by manually turning my sprinklers on and off and cutting down on those long hot showers by a few minutes.

    None of this is particularly bothersome or difficult. What is difficult is paying over three bucks a gallon for gas, or a premium on water for use over a certain level. Guys like this are simply morons who call themselves conservatives, except they don’t conserve.

  136. 136
    David in NY says:

    @mr. whipple:

    Bot alert: Obama speaking on Wall Street now.

    Actually at Cooper Union, no? You can see Wall Street from there (or at least the Chase building), but it’s a couple of miles away.

    Alerted wife, who is passing the area, either to avoid it entirely or go there and join in.

  137. 137
    steve says:

    Well knock me over with Erick Erickson’s brain. Conservatives have been mad at the Supreme Court since it decided to desegregate the schools in 1954 and seen fit to blame the federal government for everything that has happened since then that they don’t like.

    living in the deep south, and seeing the 50 year transformation of the republican party, i’d summarize the last 50 years as–

    liberals: hey you guys oppressing women, and blacks, and forcing jesus on everyone, cut it out.
    conservatives: FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU, YOU FUCKING ASSHOLE INTERLOPER! FUCK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  138. 138
    zzyzx says:

    Yeah it’s also important to highlight the association with war. Yes, when you’re fighting the life of your and your family, it can be important to win at all cost, even if some of your actions are a little morally questionable. However, this is just an argument between people in a democracy, not a battle to the death. If the goal is to convince others, being truthful helps.

  139. 139
    David in NY says:

    Christ, I haven’t even figured out what an Overton window is and now I’ve got to figure out “epistemic closure.”

    Life is just too short.

  140. 140
    cleek says:

    @PeakVT:

    i think the “war” he’s talking about is the War Against Liberalism.

    Fucking narcissistic asshole.

    to put it mildly…

  141. 141
    LuciaMia says:

    Isn’t it great to live in a country where you’re free to act like a total fucking asshole, and bore the crap out of the rest of us by bragging about it.

  142. 142
    steve says:

    Saw a tweet along the lines of, say Happy Holidays and it’s “war”. But boy is it fun to say F the planet on Earth day!

    Mr. Liberal: Hey Mr. Conservative. So, how should the federal government respond to a single teenage pregnancy?
    Mr. C: Actions Have Consequences!
    Mr. L: And how should the feds respond to global corporations polluting the environment, which sustains all life on the planet?
    Mr. C: Actions Have No Consequences!

  143. 143
    trollhattan says:

    @Woodrowfan:

    This.

    We had our service upgraded from 100 to 200 amps as part of a kitchen remodel and suddenly, bulbs I’d been replacing every few months magically began lasting for years–regular incandescents, fluroescents and especially halogens. Also too, small appliances stopped crapping out. It’s pretty clear we were experiencing voltage spikes and dips because the old service was overloaded.

    LED and OLED are the future of lighting. OLED especially will blow your mind, as lighting designers are no longer limited to “bulbs.” In the meantime I’ve replaced so many standard incandescents I’ll be able to have a Wingnut Yard Sale(tm) when the “ban” goes in effect, and sell them off. I’ll really “stick it to the man” only in this case “the man” will be Greater Wingnuttia(tm).

    FWIW I bought some dimmable fluorescents at Costco to replace floods in recessed ceiling cans. They dim with no complaint.

  144. 144
    Steve says:

    I am disappointed no one has yet tied this to the world-shattering issue of phosphates in dish detergent.

  145. 145
    WereBear says:

    This sums up the Party of No so nicely; because they didn’t come to their positions through careful considerations of the facts; because reality is to be fought against, since it’s never doing them any favors; so they cannot arrive at a conclusion on their own.

    Thus, the reflexive whining.

  146. 146
    jrg says:

    Guys like this are simply morons who call themselves conservatives, except they don’t conserve.

    Until someone calls them on it, then they refer to said “conservative” as a “liberal”. In 20-30 years when the polar ice caps have melted, we’ll get to hear how the “conservatives” were warning us all along.

  147. 147
    steve says:

    All I Ever Really Needed to Know I Learned in Kindergarten
    – by Robert Fulghum
    Most of what I really need to know about how to live, and what to do, and how to be, I learned in Kindergarten. Wisdom was not at the top of the graduate school mountain, but there in the sandbox at nursery school.
    These are the things I learned: Share everything. Play fair. Don’t hit people. Put things back where you found them. Clean up your own mess. Don’t take things that aren’t yours. Say you’re sorry when you hurt somebody. Wash your hands before you eat. Flush. Warm cookies and cold milk are good for you. Live a balanced life. Learn some and think some and draw and paint and sing and dance and play and work some every day.
    Take a nap every afternoon. When you go out into the world, watch for traffic, hold hands, and stick together.

    Clearly, Erick Erickson failed Kindergarten, but anyone whose ever read Red State already knows that….

  148. 148
    Martian Buddy says:

    From the Department of Unintentional Hilarity:

    Mark knew, when he wrote the book he was not reaching out to the intellectual community. If he had, he’d have sold 200 copies.

    You couldn’t ask for a more honest assessment of modern conservatism.

  149. 149
    Mumphrey says:

    Funny how they scream about “statists” and “totalitarians” and all that shit, and then turn around and try to outlaw abortion or keep gay people from marrying (I bet they’d outlaw homosexuality altogether if they could), and want the government to tell us what kind of god to worship.

    They’re only against “statism” when they feel like they’re being “oppressed”–and “oppression” to them is “mild inconvenience”

  150. 150
    PeakVT says:

    My bad. When I read “we’re at war” I think of Afghanistan; I assumed it was the war he was referring to. How could I forget the threat of good health care and functioning infrastructure. Silly me.

    /slinks away in embarrassment

  151. 151
    steve says:

    All I Ever Really Needed to Know I Learned in Kindergarten – by Robert FulghumAt Red State
    Most of what I really need to know about how to live, and what to do, and how to be, I learned in Kindergartenat Red State. Wisdom was not at the top of the graduate school is for elitist fags.mountain, but there in the sandbox at nursery school.
    These are the things I learned: Share everythingnothing. Sharing’s for communists. Play fair my ass. Don’t hit people with bombs and look tough. Put things back where you found them. Clean up your own messnothing. That’s for environmentalist pussies. Don’t take things that aren’t yours. don’t Say you’re sorry when you hurt somebody because that’s Appeasement. Wash your hands before you eat. Flush over and over, just to piss people off. Warm cookies and cold milk are good for you. Live a balanced life. Learn some and think some and draw and paint and sing and dance and play god what was that faggotry about and work some every day.unlike LIBERALS who want handouts

  152. 152
    freelancer says:

    This being Earth Day, does anyone have a link to Erick son of Erick talking about running his car in his driveway for 3 hours to offset anything done to benefit the environment?

    I think it may have been a TBogg post, IIRC. But yeah, genius day to reprise that theme, douche.

    He should just tattoo “FOOL” on his forehead, but he’d probably mispell it.

  153. 153
    petesmom says:

    “I know the facts were in the ballpark.”

    Conservative facts are truthy, if you will.

  154. 154
    Cain says:

    @dan:

    Definition of truthiness. It doesn’t have to be true. It has to FEEL true.

    He must be an awesome, awesome worker.

    Bill: Why are these numbers wrong?! The customers are having a fit, they’ve lost money!

    Douchebag: Hey! They were in the ballpark! WTF dude!

    Bill: Leave now.

    Later on, we find douchebag collecting unemployment benefits and then heading into a teaturd party.

    cain

  155. 155
    WereBear says:

    As our host John pointed out a few days ago, they seem to have completely lost the thread of what a “conservative” position might truly be.

    For instance, conserving energy to funnel less money to our “enemies” would seem to be a no-brainer to me. That’s the context of a green energy ad put out by Vote Vets, and I think it’s a great ad.

  156. 156
    Martian Buddy says:

    Oh, as long as we’re on the subject of righties being excoriated for saying the bleedin’ obvious:

    RNC Chairman Michael Steele: “For the last 40-plus years we had a ‘Southern Strategy’ that alienated many minority voters by focusing on the white male vote in the South.”

    Shrieks of Neo-Confederate outrage in 5… 4… 3….

  157. 157
    Svensker says:

    @geg6:

    I’ve heard this complaint about CFLs not coming on right away from others but have not experienced that at all with any of mine. And I’ve bought at least two brands.

    Being cheap, I bought some cheap CFLs and they sometimes will take almost 60 seconds to come on. If I weren’t lazy and cheap — and these bulbs were in a more frequented place — I’d replace them. My full price CFLs that are a major brand work just fine.

  158. 158
    Svensker says:

    @WereBear:

    For instance, conserving energy to funnel less money to our “enemies” would seem to be a no-brainer to me. That’s the context of a green energy ad put out by Vote Vets, and I think it’s a great ad.

    I wasn’t thrilled at the continued demonization of those Scary Muslims in the Middle East, tho. They’re not our “enemies” — at least they wouldn’t be if we’d stop fucking with them.

  159. 159
    Cain says:

    @Zifnab:

    This wasn’t always true, of course. But conservatives have become so aligned with the GOP, and the GOP has become so obsessed with winning the next news cycle at all costs, that the policy wraps up the party – and by

    This point about winning the next news cycle has been brought up continuously. I think though this shows a problem with our media. Since it has moved more towards entertainment and head butting than actual journalism we have one party that has created a symbiotic relationship with the media. It is all about winning the media story because that’s the only way to propagandize what they are doing. Except they don’t really know what they are doing. They are drunkenly all over the place.

    Republicans have become so bad they don’t actually stand for anything other than a media whore. They don’t actually follow any conservative principles other than to hop up the outrage so that they can take advantage of it. They are a media whore and a crack junkie. Something is wrong with them. Seriously wrong. They aren’t about governing at all.

    If we can fix the media then we can probably wean them off the cycle they are in. Can’t we lobby congress about this? It seems that we really need to break things up. For the good of the country.

  160. 160
    redoubt says:

    I think by “ballpark” they mean the Astrodome–not being used for anything and too hazardous to demolish.

  161. 161
    Bulworth says:

    @GregB: The Tea-Party Confederacy of Dunces. That’s gold.

  162. 162
    redoubt says:

    @freelancer: Erick bin Erick is the “tail-end Charlie” of the Macon City Council and just wants to be famous, by hook or (mostly) crook.

  163. 163
    Bubblegum Tate says:

    @JD Rhoades:

    Yeah, the “Alinsky tactics” meme must have been on Glenn Beck or Hannity or something, because I get that whine a lot now.

    I think Beck has been beating that drum for a while now. It’s a pretty remarkable thing–I’d never even heard of Alinksy until the wingnuts started screeching about him. They accuse anybody who makes fun of them of being an “Alinksyite,” but they seem to be way more into Alinksy than any of the people at whom they lob that accusation.

  164. 164
    freelancer says:

    @redoubt:

    Oh, I’m well versed in Erick (Erick with a K is evil) and his shennanigans, I was just looking for a specific example of his Earth Day stupidity.

  165. 165
    catclub says:

    @David in NY: #139
    “Christ, I haven’t even figured out what an Overton window is and now I’ve got to figure out “epistemic closure.””

    Well, that’s when the Overton window get slammed shut by the invisible hand of the free market.

    Watch your fingers!

  166. 166
    redoubt says:

    @freelancer: Thanks; sorry I misunderestimated misunderstood you.

  167. 167
    Zifnab says:

    @Cain: But that’s the problem. It’s symbiotic. You can’t break the media of the conflict novelty fixation because that shit sells and because Republicans love to provide it. You can’t break the Republicans of their media whoring, because it keeps getting them in the news to catapult the propaganda.

    And the media blitzes benefit the corporations in a big way. Health care reform went from milquetoast quasi-conservative insurance regulation to Grandma Murdering Death Panels. The resulting freak out helped grind off a large chunk of useful progressive reform for the sake of shareholder profit.

    The system benefits the folks with all the money. The folks with all the money control network and cable TV and radio. TV and radio keep hammering away with rich guy friendly talking points and propaganda. The Republicans just play their role by acting as local and national celebrities capable of relaying the message.

    I don’t think you’re going to ever change the MSM, because you’re never going to have any true leverage over the national establishment media. You can take away eyeballs until the medium becomes less relevant, but you can’t really end an outfit like FOX News or The Washington Times when these “businesses” are more than happy to operate at a loss if necessary.

  168. 168
    liberal says:

    @gnomedad,
    @Napoleon,
    @geg6,
    @Gus:

    I was kind of limited in choices, because I was looking for a BR40 (I guess that’s the same as R40) bulb, and something that wasn’t harsh white. There’s probably a much wider choice for normal E26 bulbs.

    The brand that crapped out was Feit. The brand that’s done well so far is TCP, which something claimed was the first one to automate the production of the spiral glass tubes.

    For my office, I don’t mind the fact that the bulbs take a couple minutes to achieve the steady-state max brightness. I thought I heard a little humming from the TCPs, but I guess I forgot about it, so it can’t be too bad.

  169. 169
    liberal says:

    @beltane, @DarcyPennell:

    Thanks for the advice. I’m pretty sure the craptastic toilet is from the 1990s, so I’ll look into getting a new one.

  170. 170
    liberal says:

    @slag:
    I agree, though I don’t think a tax on incandescents would be so bad, not nearly like taxing energy itself.

  171. 171
    scarshapedstar says:

    I will shit in the street to thumb my nose at the Sewage and Water board and their taxes.

    I will cough and sneeze with my face uncovered, directly at other people, because this will really strike a nerve with the hand-wringing liberal epidemiologists.

    I will set fire to large piles of trash in vacant lots, and watch the communist fire department show up for no good reason except to stop “pollution” from keeping environmentalists up at night.

    I will buy 15 hamburgers, wrap them up in an entire ream of brand new printer paper, and throw them into the recycle bin down at City Hall after alerting every vegan I know.

    I will cut off people trying to merge from the interstate onramp. I will put my car in park and sit at a green light for 5 minutes straight. If anyone confronts me, I will pull a gun on them.

    Am I a sociopath? No, I am a libertarian trying to save America, and this is my manifesto.

  172. 172
    Jasper says:

    I thought Manzi might have been getting bombarded with hate emails, so I sent him a note thanking him for actually addressing facts and evidence, and got a nice response back.

    It just seems to me we should encourage guys like him even if we often or nearly always disagree about solutions.

  173. 173
    David in NY says:

    @catclub:

    thanks, I knew there was a joke in there somewhere …

  174. 174
    Uloborus says:

    @GregB:
    I hated that book SO MUCH. Multiple pages about a guy who’s already kind of grotesque masturbating about his dog and how he treats it as an art form. That’s… basically where I gave up.

    Apparently the book is funny. Maybe it is. I didn’t understand why ‘The Graduate’ was supposed to be funny, either, and I’m assured it’s hilarious.

  175. 175
    Xenocrates says:

    So, this joker thinks he can fabricate an internal combustion engine. OOOOK, how do you propose to “hand make” the fuel?? Ohhhhh, guess we didn’t think this through…why am I not surprised? Guess he’ll just reload and kill his neighbor for gas.

  176. 176
    r€nato says:

    @SGEW: WT ever-living F, isn’t it painfully obvious for at least since the inception of Fox News Channel (and I would draw it back to the rise of Rush Limbaugh), that the right has been living in a reality distortion/denial sphere?

    I guess ‘epistemic closure’ is the latest phrase for it. This is news to anyone? Some righties are just discovering this phenomenon?

    Christ.

  177. 177
    ThresherK says:

    I had two sockets in one ceiling fixture continually fail with CFL bulbs, and incandescents before it.

    Then I found something on the intertubes about how screwing bulbs in too tight presses the center tab of the socket in so much that it doesn’t make secure contact, leading the user to screw the next bulb in tighter, which depresses the center contact further, and so on… Perhaps this was from Lifehacker.

    (Disclaimer: I’m not telling anyone to, or how to, put their finger in a light socket. You’re on your own.)

    Also, if you have lamps with 3-way incandescent sockets, ordinary (one-way) CFLs don’t work so well in them. Spring for the 3-way CFLs.

  178. 178
    Martian Buddy says:

    @Bubblegum Tate: Yeah, it’s pretty hysterical to see Freepers debating the use of “Alinsky tactics” when they’ve been a staple of conservative activism for decades now. All except for this one, of course:

    The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.

    Perhaps Alinsky should have added “no partial credit for numberless, five-page alternative budget proposals.”

  179. 179
    Catsy says:

    @geg6:

    I’m not sure what kind of CFLs you’ve been buying, but as of a year ago, I replaced the last of my incandescents with CFLs. I haven’t bought a lightbulb now in 3 years and I have no problems at all with any of my lights whether I’m using them for 12 hours or 12 seconds. I’ve heard this complaint about CFLs not coming on right away from others but have not experienced that at all with any of mine. And I’ve bought at least two brands. This puzzles me, though I assume it must be a brand issue.

    This.

    I have had no problems at all with CFLs, aside from some of the older ones being shaped in ways that don’t fit well in certain fixtures. But most of the newer ones are shaped in a way that conforms to the form factor of a typical incandescent.

    I have intensely powerful daylight CFLs that I use for miniature photography. We have weaker ones for general household use, and they’re still as bright or brighter than a typical 60W incandescent while using less power.

    I have replaced two CFLs in the last seven years.

    TWO.

    In my experience, people who complain about weaker light given off by CFLs are making inapt comparisons. They are trying to directly compare a given incandescent with a given CFL without ensuring that they’re comparing two lights with the same lumen rating. Others look at the lower wattage on CFLs and make the mistake of assuming that lower wattage = lower output without realizing that CFLs require less wattage in order to generate the same output.

    I really can’t think of a reason to buy incandescents anymore unless you have very specific spectral needs or use a dimmer switch.

    (edited to fix the WYSIWIG editor’s retarded blockquote butchering)

  180. 180
    JL says:

    Come 2014, I will continue to use the stockpile of incandescent bulbs I plan to amass in the coming 4 years …

    Does he have a stock pile of old aerosol hairspray cans too because he wants the right to spray CFCs into the atmosphere?

    What a “moran”.

  181. 181
    momus says:

    I guess “Good enough for who its for” is epistemic closure of a sort.

  182. 182
    Mike G says:

    Rightard philosophy:
    “I really really WANT it be true, so that makes it true”.

    When the Conservative Bible comes out, I expect to say stuff like–
    “When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I joined the Republicans so I could keep thinking like a child”. (1 Corinthians 13:11).

  183. 183
    Kyle says:

    So, this joker thinks he can fabricate an internal combustion engine. OOOOK, how do you propose to “hand make” the fuel??

    I’m guessing the obese rightards are fairly proficient at generating their own methane.

  184. 184
    "Fair and Balanced" Dave says:

    Technically the Pittsburgh Pirates were in the same ballpark as the Milwaukee Brewers for the past couple of days. However, when you get outscored in 3 games by a combined score of 35-1, it truly strains credibility.

  185. 185
    PanAmerican says:

    Why would he need to stockpile bulbs when halogens meeting the new standards are already available? Hmmmm….maybe because he’s an idiot?

  186. 186
    Chuck says:

    Come 2014, I will continue to use the stockpile of incandescent bulbs I plan to amass in the coming 4 years – and will gladly pay the electric bill so I can have the light I prefer to have cry like a little bitch and pout and stamp my feet and cry “commufascism” when I read my electric bill.

  187. 187
    kay says:

    @PanAmerican:

    Why would he need to stockpile bulbs when halogens meeting the new standards are already available? Hmmmm….maybe because he’s an idiot?

    Because they love the word “stockpile”?

    I didn’t get it either. I’m not reading them anymore. None of them know anything about anything. I’m not sure they shop or work or interact with their environment on direct level.

  188. 188
    Julia Grey says:

    I will continue to drive a gas-guzzling Jeep Wrangler

    Sure you will. Even if gas hits $6 a gallon, right?

    Okay, I believe you. My only question is, what other fun part of your life are you going to give up to be able to afford that oh-so-special pleasure of driving an ugly, out-of-date gas guzzler? Eating out, maybe? Season tickets to your favorite sport? The kids’ Christmas?

    And you’ll also be willing to give up other nice things to pay higher and higher electric bills to keep those lovely hot light bulbs lit, too, won’t you? So what if it cuts your vacation short by a couple days or even cancels it altogether, that great incandescent light will be worth it to you, I’m sure.

    What a frakkin blowhard.

    (And by the way, one certainly HOPES he’d keep flushing til the job was done. It’s so gauche to leave….residue.)

  189. 189
    priscianus jr says:

    Theoretically I thought there must be people who “think” like this guy, but I never quite believed it.
    Well at least he believes in recycling, because this is nothing but recycled Ayn Rand.
    A clown like that can’t enjoy his freedom to “do his own thing,” because he doesn’t know what his own thing is. He’s a non-entity, he doesn’t have his own thing. So this is the only way he can prove that he is “free” and better than everyone else: “I’m going to be a sociopath asshole because it’s the only way I can prove to myself and everybody else that I am free.”

  190. 190
    The Truffle says:

    @gnomedad: Next time some winger tries to project conservative failings onto liberals, I wonder what a snappy comeback would be.

  191. 191
    dr2chase says:

    @liberal — a couple of things. That toilet of yours, might not have enough head over the outflow pipe (being in the basement) to flush properly. Or, it might not have been installed dead level (this matters more for low-flow). Or as others have noted, it could be old.

    LEDs are the future for light, the difficulty is avoiding the charlatans, who will either sell you crap, or generation N-2. Best current LEDs are kicking out about 120 lumens per watt, previous was 100 lumens per watt, before that was about 80 lumens per watt. And, further, the light quality varies — the “brightest” are notably blue. Good brands are Cree, Nichia, and Luxeon; lately I’ve been happiest with Cree.

    I use them on my bicycle (they’re exposed to weather, they work), and I also have 9 1-watt “neutral white” LEDs on the bottomside of my kitchen cabinets, and they work great.

    Unfortunately, it’s all still a little expensive. That’s problem #1, problem #2 is that LEDs do not like to run hot, so you cannot just cram a bunch of them into a tiny space.

  192. 192
    PanAmerican says:

    @kay:

    That was my take. Women folk buy all that crap. If he did ever purchase bulbs it would be strictly tactile. Same size, same shape. chaaange baaaad!!! Don’t confuse him with various bulb types and Watts and Lumens and shit.

  193. 193
    different church-lady says:

    I’m surprised he’s not going to create his own analog TV broadcasts.

  194. 194
    Lit3Bolt says:

    I will continue to flush my toilet however many times it takes to get the job done

    Can this be immortalized on this site? Please? I think it needs its own tag. It’s up there with internet traditions.

  195. 195
    liberal says:

    @dr2chase:

    Unfortunately, it’s all still a little expensive.

    That’s an understatement. IIRC for what I want (R40), an LED is about $60.

  196. 196
    artem1s says:

    Steele’s comments are pretty interesting fodder but I’m pretty sure the GOP’s next steps in the SS will continue to be something along this line…

    Reynolds, who is black, believes the commission is offering a valuable dissenting opinion from the traditional view of what civil rights ought to mean. He opposes programs such as affirmative action.

    http://www.npr.org/templates/s.....=126194822

    NPR did a piece on the civil rights commission panel and how it has been hijacked by the conservative right. This pretty much sums up their efforts within the minority communities. They will take in anyone who is willing to sell their soul to the devil for a little regional power. The minority voters that the GOP does attract and hold onto are going to look more and more like Ken Blackwell and Clarence Thomas.

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