More of This

I tell you what, if more progressives were like Anthony Weiner than Howard Dean (who still can not get it through his over-sized ego head that you couldn’t get most of the positive things in this bill by just “ramming it through reconciliation), there wouldn’t be any hippy-punching on this blog at all.

Although Weiner missed a point- while Nooners was droning on about fixing the economy, Weiner could have taken a moment to point out the Democrats would love to do more about jobs and the economy… if her party would quit fucking filibustering.

*** Update ***

And it appears DougJ and I were both reading Wonkette at the same time.

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85 replies
  1. 1
    NobodySpecial says:

    I remember people on this fine blog calling Weiner a flake.

    Now he’s a valiant warrior.

    Next week? Tune in and find out.

  2. 2

    I figure if you’ve survived to adulthood with the name Weiner, you’re gonna be damn good at deflecting punches and delivering some serious counter-punches.

    He and Alan Grayson need to do a Kings Of Congress tour.

  3. 3
    numbskull says:

    You mean Dean, the guy who is a doctor, who, you know, actually cared for patients? Dean, the guy who saw a need , responded, and eventually became governor of a state? Dean, who saw a problem, and tried to shift one of the two major parties in this country back to its roots, back to ethical behavior?

    You mean that Dean, Cole?

    Sheesh. Seriously. Get over yourself.

    It IS possible to celebrate Weiner without punching hippies. You know that, right?

  4. 4
    Cacti says:

    Gov. Howard Dean was far more pragmatic and middle of the road in his policies than citizen Howard Dean, hero of the netroots.

    I’m not sure if he just started believing his own hype as a “progressive hero” or that it’s just easier to be a purity troll when you don’t have to answer to voters.

  5. 5
    MikeJ says:

    @NobodySpecial: Meh. I searched and found Cole calling him “anti-American”, but that was back in JC’s stupid days (2002).

  6. 6
    John Cole says:

    @numbskull: They teach how to pass bills in med school these days? The jackass thinks we should have just passed the entire bill through reconciliation. Listen to him.

    Christ, you Deaniacs.

  7. 7
    John Cole says:

    @Cacti: No shit. I’d do anything to have him back in charge at the DNC. Dean was awesome there. Now he seems to show up every now and then and not know wtf he is talking about.

  8. 8
    demo woman says:

    @Cacti: Both statements might be true. He did provide health care for the folks of VT.
    Is he a good campaigner, heck no but I appreciate his effort.

  9. 9
    mai naem says:

    Good gawd, you do realize Dean did endorse the bill??? You do realize he wanted the public option and tried for medicare for over 50 and Lieberprick got all huffy and puffy over that? Why don’t you punch Lieberprick instead of Dean. I don’t think Dean’s perfect and yep, he’s got an ego from being an M.D. and a governor but I agree with him that the Dem strategy behind HRC has been awful and we should be getting more than this bill. All that said, PTDBA.

  10. 10
    DaBomb says:

    @numbskull: John wasn’t arguing whether or not, Howard Dean could use a scapel or treat a patient.

    But when it comes to legislating, he knows fuckall.

  11. 11
    Mark S. says:

    I have a hard time watching Nooners. I don’t know if she’s drunk or just pops a bunch of Quaaludes but something is really odd with her affect.

  12. 12
    demo woman says:

    OT.. Georgia Tech won and that’s a good thing.

  13. 13
    jrg says:

    OT: John – are you manually changing the tagline, or is it random?

  14. 14
    John Cole says:

    @mai naem: Did you listen to what Dean said on the damned video? He is just making shit up. Do kay and Aluridae have to go through the exhaustive list of shit in the bill that WOULD NOT BE THERE if we followed Dean’s rants and just “rammed the bill through reconciliation like Bush.”

    You all joke about the Obama cult, but by far, the Dean cult has them beat.

  15. 15
    Redshift says:

    Excellent smackdown by Wiener. And the most hilarious part (though not the best part) is Noonan and Scarborough blathering on about how the Dems shouldn’t be working on health care, they should be focusing on jobs, when anyone with half a brain knows that if they were, Nooners and Scar would be insisting that nothing the government can do (except cutting taxes and regulation) can possibly help the economy. It’s such a transparent attempt to sidetrack for purely political purposes.

    Fortunately for Scarborough, no one with half a brain is likely to watch his show…

  16. 16
    Annie says:

    Anthony Weiner was awesome. We needed more of his passion during this entire HCR process. When you listen to him talk about the link between health care costs and loss of jobs, the entire HCR debate changes direction. I think the one failure of the administration and the Democratic leadership was their inability to consistently and forcefully make this point…That HCR reform is both about creating a more equitable health care system AND the fact that rising health care costs impact jobs — both job losses and job creation.

  17. 17
    JCT says:

    @Mark S.:

    The conventional wisdom regarding that idiot Peggy is that she indulges in both and THEN writes for the WSJ. Mind-numbing drivel.

  18. 18
    numbskull says:

    @John Cole:

    Not so much a Deanic as someone who occasionally wonders:

    “John Cole, remind me again what he’s actually accomplished?”

    But carry on, carry on! You decry the public’s short memory with apparently every mirror in your house broken.

    And again the point being: It IS actually possible to celebrate Weiner without punching the hippies.

  19. 19
    MikeJ says:

    I do not know what the Democratic Party spent, in toto, on the 2004 election, but what they seem to have gotten for it is Barack Obama. Let us savor.

    http://www.opinionjournal.com/.....=110005844

    I just wish Weiner had told Nooners to “savor” HCR passing.

  20. 20
    Jim Newell says:

    @John Cole: I don’t know, John. I’m sure if Obama just had the bill on his desk and gave it to Congress and told them to pass the damned thing, Congress wouldn’t have objected or tried to change anything, and the Senate would’ve passed it all 100-0 through reconciliation — even if they didn’t need reconciliation. This is what the spineful George W. Bush would have done.

    (Oh and thank you for the link. Why am I inserting myself into this?)

  21. 21
    mr. whipple says:

    I don’t know if she’s drunk or just pops a bunch of Quaaludes

    Yes, both.

    When I did that back in college, I also wrote tributes to Reagan’s foot and saw magic dolphins. I just didn’t get paid for it.

  22. 22
    demkat620 says:

    @Mark S.: What bothers you about Noonan is her smugness.

    It bugs the shit out of me.

  23. 23
    Maude says:

    @numbskull: Your username is perfect.

  24. 24
    dr. bloor says:

    After we’re done kicking the shit out of Dean, can we get a few more licks in on Kucinich?

    Golly.

  25. 25
    Mark S. says:

    @JCT:

    Oh, I’ve read her columns before and know that is the case (“the dolphins who surrounded him like a contingent of angels pushed him upward.”). It’s still creepy to see it live.

    Actually, what creeps me out the most is her undying devotion to Reagan and John Paul II. It comes off as such a lost daddy complex.

  26. 26
    Mark S. says:

    @mr. whipple:

    You beat me to the dolphins you bastard!

  27. 27
    mai naem says:

    @John Cole: There was more stuff that could have been in the bill through reconciliation. Look, I don’t think the Obama people wanted the public option. There was way too much lobbying going the other way. Reid and Obama should have stopped Baucus on Finance by Sept and they would not have had to worry about Scott Brown. Call me a Deaniac if you want, but the guy has good political instincts. He shouldn’t be the guy in the front but the Obama people f’d up big time by not giving him some kind of healthcare position.

  28. 28
    MikeJ says:

    @dr. bloor: When Kucinich goes on the teevee box spouting nonsense I imagine he will get smacked. Right now he’s voting the right way and keeping his trap shut, so there’s no reason to smack him until one of those changes.

  29. 29
    numbskull says:

    @Maude: Oh gosh. That really hurt. C’mon Maude, you can do better!

    “Better” would include explaining why I’m a numbskull. It’s OK. Brang it! John decided the best argument was to start slinging “Deaniac” around, as though that would shut down that end of the conversation. Of course, first it has to be an accurate slinging of mud.

    But you’re much better placed. You can explain specifically why you think I’m a numbskull. Go for it!

  30. 30
    dr. bloor says:

    @MikeJ:

    Actually, he’s not keeping his trap shut. He’s out there whipping for the bill. Which wouldn’t have happened had we gone ahead and boiled him in oil earlier this week.

  31. 31
    mai naem says:

    @demkat620: Yes yes yes her f#$ing smugness. Scarbo has some of that too. Scarbo and Mika were going on about charter schools yesterday and today. We’ve had a bunch of charter schools for several years in AZ. Of all of them, there are only a handful that score well on the routine tests. Public schools may not be great but charter schools should be better since the assumption would be the parents are more involved in the kids education.

  32. 32
    slag says:

    @MikeJ: That was cruel.

  33. 33
    suzanne says:

    Off-topic, but I tried to call Harry Mitchell (AZ-5) again to see if he’d triumphed over his tragic recto-cranial inversion and decided to vote to PTDB, but couldn’t get through to either the local or the Washington offices, and I tried repeatedly every few minutes for three hours.

    I’m getting scared.

  34. 34
    numbskull says:

    @Cacti: That is something to ponder. I’m undecided and I don’t think it’s all or none either way. Dean may be the same as he ever was (ego and all), and “we” have changed. Or, he may have completely taken leave of his senses. Neither of the extremes of these seems likely.

    And Cole, I actually AM a numbskull, so don’t take the insults too seriously. I’m just picking up mud and throwing it back at you.

  35. 35
    JAHILL10 says:

    @ dr. bloor

    OR Rep. K saw that his usual purity Dem act was not working with the base this time and changed his tune. Democracy in action? You tell me.

  36. 36
    JCT says:

    @Mark S.:

    Oh lord, the dolphins! I had forgotten about that one– the horrors! And hah, the WSJ has it under “The best of Peggy Noonan”. The irony, it hurts.

    Actually, what creeps me out the most is her undying devotion to Reagan and John Paul II. It comes off as such a lost daddy complex.

    Exactly, as I commented on another thread, if only they had just buried her with Reagan…

  37. 37
    dr. bloor says:

    @JAHILL10:

    Democracy in action? You tell me.

    Sounds like a perfect example to me, but who the fuck cares anyways? It’s crunch time, and he’s trying to PTDB.

  38. 38
    Mark S. says:

    @MikeJ:

    God, she’s also a terrible writer. “God bless the pajama-clad yeomen of America.” Savor.

  39. 39
    Mark S. says:

    @JCT:

    if only they had just buried her with Reagan

    Nancy wouldn’t go for it.

  40. 40
    mai naem says:

    @suzanne: I called Mitchell’s office today. The woman said he hadn’t read the whole bill through yet because he got it yesterday P.M.- I am sure he was just trying to buy time. She said the pro/con calls were going at 50/50 and that they’d been very busy with calls. I will be real disappointed if he votes against it but I really think he’ll vote yes.

  41. 41
    John Cole says:

    @numbskull: Look, it is one thing when a teabagger unloads a stream of stupid. I can laugh it off.

    But when a really smart guy who should know better spouts that stuff, it is maddening. And even worse, Dean has a cult following of people, and when he says shit like this, they run around screaming “EPIC Fail!” and join FDL’s action center to kill the bill because we didn’t do what Bush did and get EVERYTHIGN WE WANTED THROUGH RECONCILIATION LIKE A FIGHTER WOULD.

    I have no beef with Dean. I think he is overall a great leader and we would not be where we are now without his 50 state plan and all his work. But for fuck’s sake, knock off the bullshit, Howard.

  42. 42
    DougJ says:

    @numbskull:

    What St. Howard said was not accurate. Why does it matter that he cared for patients and so on?

  43. 43
    mr. whipple says:

    @suzanne:

    Mitchell is a yes, I think. See: http://www.dailykos.com/story/.....YES-column!

  44. 44
    DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal) says:

    @NobodySpecial:

    I’ve been here a hell of a long time and that is news to me. Links? Or did you just pull that nugget out of your ass?

  45. 45

    @John Cole:

    I have no beef with Dean. I think he is overall a great leader and we would not be where we are now without his 50 state plan and all his work

    Oh Christ, not this again.

  46. 46
    suzanne says:

    @mr. whipple:
    Oh, YAAAAAY! Thank you for letting me know!
    Now I can volunteer for him again.

    This is good news. :)

  47. 47
    CJR says:

    I remember when Howard Dean was the exciting guy running against Bush. Where was Cole then? Watching TV or starting an Open Thread as an excuse to ask how to put his fucking pants on, I guess.

  48. 48
    Ailuridae says:

    @John Cole:

    I’m high as a kite on codeine. It took me an hour to type these two sentences.

  49. 49
    Karmakin says:

    Weiner is wrong. At least on one part.

    Money that goes towards health care wouldn’t magically go towards wages. Money that goes towards health care would have gone into the black hole that is corporate profits.

    Unless you’re talking about virtually full employment (a situation that hasn’t existed in quite a while), wages are determined not by what the employer can afford, but by what the market determines.

    Now, it might give unionized workers more leverage. But I doubt it.

  50. 50
    numbskull says:

    @John Cole: Cole, go back and read your own post. Go ahead, it’s right up there at the top of the page.

    My point, poorly made obviously, is that it is possible to champion Weiner without gratuitously punching Dean/Kucinich/Flavor-of-the-day.

    Dougie, I wasn’t aware that I was responding to Cole pointing out (yet another) Dean inaccuracy. Was that in the Cole’s post that I was responding to? No? It came later in the thread? Hm. Sorry, I’ll try to be more transcendental in the future.

  51. 51
    FreeAtLast says:

    @Mark S.:
    When she speaks, she seems to either close her eyes or avert them from the camera and everyone else on the set. It’s like she can’t look you in the eye because she knows what she’s saying is bullshit.

  52. 52
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    @CJR:

    I remember when Howard Dean was the exciting guy running against Bush. Where was Cole then? Watching TV or starting an Open Thread as an excuse to ask how to put his fucking pants on, I guess.

    lolz

    He was actually voting for Bush then. But now he’s the smartest thing evah. Except for the pants thing.

  53. 53
    NobodySpecial says:

    @DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal):

    One for example. There are others, you could find them. I have to get ready for work.

    Meta

  54. 54
    Elisabeth says:

    Oh jeez. This isn’t about how progressive Dean is or that he was a doctor or the Cole was a Republican or punching hippies or the job Dean did at the DNC. It’s about having a guy who hasn’t served in Congress talking about process and getting it wrong. When I see him talking about such I turn the channel because he may have an opinion but he doesn’t have the expertise.

  55. 55
  56. 56
    CJR says:

    When I see him talking about such I turn the channel because he may have an opinion but he doesn’t have the expertise.

    So unlike Cole that way. Excellent point.

  57. 57
    numbskull says:

    @Just Some Fuckhead: Hey, now, don’t diss one of the best qualities of Cole, or indeed, any human. He grew through self-reflection, an attribute rare and one that I envy.

    But I’m still happy to throw mud back at him! :)

  58. 58
    nepat says:

    @numbskull:

    Comments like this are laughable. And Cole is right. You know the one state that actually has universal health insurance (with 97% of the people insured)? Massachusetts. And that plan came from a Republican governor. That’s what pisses Dean off. He was a Democrat in a liberal state who decided against a mandate, leaving more people uninsured. Then MA came along and stole his thunder and he’s pissed. Revealingly, he brings up Mass. a lot (he did the other night on Maddow), comparing HCR to what we have in MA. He complains about the mandate – which, incidentally, has not led to a mass migration of citizens out of the state – and refuses to acknowledge that the Obama plan is 1000 times better than the status quo. It’s under his skin. He’s bitter about it and it’s personal to him. I like him on many issues but on this one he should just shut the f*ck up.

    Howard Dean and the folks like him (e.g. Jane Hamsher) probably haven’t spent more than 10 minutes of their lives with actual poor people (trust me, they don’t show up at Howard Dean for President rallies). My wife is a social worker in MA and sees every day, with the segment of the population she serves (mentally disabled adults), the positive effects of universal health insurance in our state. These are the unseen people who don’t vote, don’t comment on blogs, don’t watch Fox News, don’t care one way or the other about politics but still get sick. HCR is also for them. Democrats used to know this.

  59. 59
    CJR says:

    Yeah, nobody knows nobody except the people you think are somebody.

    “My wife is a social worker and her name is Lotsa Data.”

    Tell Lotsa I said hi.

  60. 60
    Mnemosyne says:

    @mai naem:

    There was more stuff that could have been in the bill through reconciliation.

    But the really vital stuff — like saying that insurance companies could not deny someone insurance for having a pre-existing condition — can only be passed through regular legislation.

    We could have nibbled around the edges with reconciliation but the actual reforms could not have happened. I know it’s a popular meme to claim that there are no reforms in the bill, but that’s bullshit.

  61. 61
    Elisabeth says:

    Howard Dean -and the folks like him (e.g. Jane Hamsher)- probably haven’t spent more than 10 minutes of their lives with actual poor people

    Don’t bet on this part.

  62. 62
    Anya says:

    @MikeJ: Oh Lord, she writes like she speaks. I hate the way she speaks and the tilt of her head when she mumbles her pretentious nonsense. Reading that crap, I can actually picture her affected style.

  63. 63
    AxelFoley says:

    @dr. bloor:

    After we’re done kicking the shit out of Dean, can we get a few more licks in on Kucinich?
    Golly.

    Can we hang our feet up some DFH arse, too? That’s always fun and good for laughs, too. LOL

  64. 64
    numbskull says:

    @nepat: Which part of the comment is laughable? Sorry, I got lost in your self-righteous psychobabble about knowing what’s going on in someone else’s head. I’m not discounting your wife’s experiences, just your ability to coherently express yourself. Please try again for the slow readers such as myself.

  65. 65
    K. Grant says:

    @Just Some Fuckhead: I can understand why someone who disagrees with a blog on every last issue might read said blog, but I have no idea what compels someone to post on said blog. Or, at least I have no idea why one might not attempt to engage the blog on some rational level, as opposed to your sophomoric hamfisted yammering.

    I am damn curious – do you think you are going to get someone to change their opinion with your constant stream of invective? Or is this simply a desire to vent anonymously? I am serious, why invest so much with so many people who disagree with you so adamantly?

    Don’t you find that behavior strange? Or do you simply get your jollies by being the one who shits in the punch bowl, and then think you have made some kind of salient and important point.

  66. 66
    numbskull says:

    @Elisabeth: Agreed.

  67. 67
    numbskull says:

    @K. Grant: Maybe he’s helping the blog avoid groupthink. But, who knows, I’m sure he can answer for himself if he cares to.

  68. 68
    Gus says:

    Wow, I’m glad I’m not so invested in a politician that I take personal affront when someone criticizes him/her. Funny stuff.

  69. 69
    K. Grant says:

    @numbskull: I have no problem with attempting to engage a blog community in a healthy and, at times, cantankerous manner – but that is not what Mr. Fuckhead usually does (or Ms. Fuckhead, I do like to be inclusive) – most often, it is simple invective. That does not encourage debate, it encourages derision, and is ultimately a waste of time.

  70. 70
    numbskull says:

    @Gus: No Gus, I just occasionally get tired of being painted with a broad brush. Glad to know that you can be so self-satisfied, though, with yo’ bad self posting on a blog so late on a Friday night. Give yourself a hug for us. We’ll all feel better.

  71. 71
    numbskull says:

    @K. Grant: K, not doubting you, I just haven’t followed the writings of M. Fuckhead. Just trying to give him/her the benefit of the doubt.

  72. 72
    Gus says:

    @numbskull: Reading your posts does make me feel more self-satisfied. I’m glad that makes you glad. I aims to please.

  73. 73
    Comrade Kevin says:

    @K. Grant: He’s looking for attention. That’s pretty much it.

  74. 74
    nepat says:

    @nepat:

    I got lost in your self-righteous psychobabble about knowing what’s going on in someone else’s head.

    The getting lost part makes sense. The rest, not so much.

    As for “punching hippies” – please. As if people like you have ever even known a hippie – the real thing, not the metaphor you use to make yourself feel at once superior and put-upon.

    Dean’s being a dick. It’s the truth. Move on.

  75. 75
    Zuzu's Petals says:

    @Mark S.:

    It’s like she’s a parody of herself.

    That or a drunken Barbara Billingsley impersonator.

  76. 76
    tc125231 says:

    there wouldn’t be any hippy-punching on this blog at all.

    Fat chance of that. You are occassionally correct –but not as often as a stopped clock. Which puts you ahead of McMegan but behind my six year old grandson.

    In general, your compulsion towards self dramatization and self obsession means that you engage in the same style of contrariansim as Niall Fergusson. People are supposed to think its about policy, but it primarily revolves around “look at me!”.

  77. 77
    Joe Buck says:

    I’m sorry that you can’t resist the urge to punch Howard Dean. I’m sorry that the efforts to add the public option to the bill via reconciliation did not succeed, but you are wrong implying that it just couldn’t be done; rather, the leadership chose not to do it.

    The fight’s not over and this is only stage one. And nothing is going to be accomplished by the “pragmatists” without being pushed by the “hippies”, even we DFH’s have to settle for crumbs.

  78. 78
    John S. says:

    It’s funny that the aptly named numbskull can’t seem to get it through his fucking head that Howard Dean is just flat wrong. And all his bobbing and weaving doesn’t change that fact. It doesn’t matter what Dean did or what his profession is. He. Is. Wrong.

    Even funnier is embracing a circle jerk with Fuckhead, who never misses an opportunity to prove what a moron he is while ‘hard-dee-har-harring” about his usual axe to grind with Cole and the rest of us who enjoy pointing out what a worthless schmuck he is.

  79. 79
    Dr. Morpheus says:

    @dr. bloor:

    What? Are Dean and Kucinich above criticism?

    Are they saints or something?

    WTF is wrong with you?

  80. 80
    Zuzu's Petals says:

    Slightly OT, but Gavin Newsom is doing a pretty good job of being the Anthony Weiner of Bill Maher’s panel tonight.

    Every time the wingnut economist spouts some halftruth or cockamamie theory about HCR, for instance, Newsom comes back with solid facts presented well.

    Good for him.

  81. 81
    Uriel says:

    @Jim Newell: @Jim Newell:

    Why am I inserting myself into this?

    Because you’re an adorable rapscallion, that’s why. Also, irrepressible.

    And if you didn’t, we would all cry in the streets like children who lost something really, really important. A father, maybe, or a dog. Possibly a really good yu-gi-oh card or a kick ass sticker that had flames and skulls and was holographic.

    Also? If hippies are so desperate about not getting kicked, they shouldn’t make it so appealing.

    HA! (As Chis Matthews would say.)

  82. 82
    Uriel says:

    By the by, that last bit was just me trying to be funny, and attempting to reintroduce some much needed, obscure Frisky Dingo references around these parts- no need for anyone to get all serious and defensive about the thing.

    WATCH IT!!! Cartoon network, Sundays. Local times will vary.

  83. 83
    DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal) says:

    @NobodySpecial:

    A TimF post about how lame the Democrats are and he does not mention Weiner specifically, followed by one commenter who has a gripe about Weiner which is followed by one commentator who agrees with them. Not one mention of “flake” and you can stuff “meta” up your ass.

    You got nothing. Add this fucker to the Lame List.

  84. 84
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    What the HELL is going on over here? Posts aren’t showing up, threads are disappearing . . . whole place is screwy. There was an Open Thread from about 9:30 last night — at 5:00 this morning it had something like 7 responses — now it has just disappeared into the ether. This probablt won’t show up either but I have to vent about it. Aaaaargh!

  85. 85
    Scott de B. says:

    Money that goes towards health care wouldn’t magically go towards wages. Money that goes towards health care would have gone into the black hole that is corporate profits.

    Unless you’re talking about virtually full employment (a situation that hasn’t existed in quite a while), wages are determined not by what the employer can afford, but by what the market determines.

    You do understand that corporate profits aren’t really a black hole, right? That health care costs are a part of labor costs and, all things being equal, if labor costs go down the amount of labor hired will go up? Tax breaks for hiring workers do work, if the incentives are lined up properly, and this is equivalent to the mother of all tax breaks except, you know, with universal health care.

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