Return of the prodigal progressive

Better late than never:

Shattering: Kucinich to vote for the HC BILL!!!!

Howard Fineman just reported the Congressman will have a press conference tommmorow where he will be announcing his support for the bill. Although it will be reluctant support, he WILL vote for the final bill. He also said he will emphasis, as Obama did, that this is just a first step in the reform effort.

Update. This will leave a mark:

A thousand people have donated over $16,000 to Dennis since yesterday to thank him for standing up for what he believes in. We’ll be asking him to return it.






96 replies
  1. 1
    Cat Lady says:

    See what a little ride in an airplane will do? Wheeeee!

  2. 2
    Chuchundra says:

    My man Barry has some game, doesn’t he?

  3. 3
    lamh31 says:

    I’m gonna use a phrase my grandmother said when my sister had her 3rd false labor in 3 days (she finally had my nephew on the 6th day!):

    “Call me when the baby is crowning” !

    I believe it when I hear it.

  4. 4
    Dennis G. says:

    Well, I guess FDL will call for him to be defeated before the day is out. Perhaps she can make the announcement after she gets back from Grover’s weekly meeting for his coalition.

    Jane ongoing isolation is well deserved.

    Cheers

  5. 5
    jon says:

    This is awesome news, although I’m certain it will lead to loads of future insufferable prickdom. And for this, I will forgive all future insufferable prickdom. All. He’ll have a lifetime pass from me.

    That and 99 cents is worth about a value item at a fast-food restaurant, but he has my respect.

    If it’s true.

  6. 6
    soonergrunt says:

    the bill is a net positive. It’s all but inevitable now, and people like being on the winning side. It’s also the standard by which the progressive netroots and the unions are going to judge the Democratic incumbents as to whether or not they should be primaried or be supported at all in the general election.
    If I were Stupak, I’d be a little nervous right about now.

  7. 7
    dr. bloor says:

    Apparently, getting pansted by the POTUS in front of the home town crowd has a marvelously clarifying effect on one’s thinking.

  8. 8
    General Egali Tarian Stuck says:

    dems know to go against this bill without existential electoral reasons could well become that by bucking the party on it’s signature issue. Very few will, and I bet Stupak falls in line with a yea vote too, also.

  9. 9
    Joseph Nobles says:

    Jane says she expects to see an ERISA amendment or her money back.

  10. 10
    Steaming Pile says:

    @Cat Lady: Prolly got reminded how much noise Air Force One makes when it’s landing at the airport in his district.

  11. 11
    Mark S. says:

    @General Egali Tarian Stuck:

    I bet Stupak falls in line with a yea vote too

    That’ll make K-Lo cry.

  12. 12
    Steaming Pile says:

    @Chuchundra: Swish! Three points, nothing but net.

  13. 13
    JK says:

    OT

    Any veteran observer of Congress is used to the rampant hypocrisy over the use of parliamentary procedures that shifts totally from one side to the other as a majority moves to minority status, and vice versa. But I can’t recall a level of feigned indignation nearly as great as what we are seeing now from congressional Republicans and their acolytes at the Wall Street Journal, and on blogs, talk radio, and cable news. It reached a ridiculous level of misinformation and disinformation over the use of reconciliation, and now threatens to top that level over the projected use of a self-executing rule by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. In the last Congress that Republicans controlled, from 2005 to 2006, Rules Committee Chairman David Dreier used the self-executing rule more than 35 times, and was no stranger to the concept of “deem and pass.” That strategy, then decried by the House Democrats who are now using it, and now being called unconstitutional by WSJ editorialists, was defended by House Republicans in court (and upheld). Dreier used it for a $40 billion deficit reduction package so that his fellow GOPers could avoid an embarrassing vote on immigration. I don’t like self-executing rules by either party—I prefer the “regular order”—so I am not going to say this is a great idea by the Democrats. But even so—is there no shame anymore? – Norman Ornstein

    http://blog.american.com/?p=11467

  14. 14
    Cat Lady says:

    @Steaming Pile:

    I think they let him fly it a little, prolly showed him his house from there.

  15. 15
    freelancer says:

    @Steaming Pile:

    Probably threatened to build a gazebo too.

  16. 16
    Chuchundra says:

    Nothing succeeds like success. Once the straggler blue douche dog reps get the idea that the bill is going to pass with or without them, they’re going to jump on the bandwagon so as not to get left behind.

  17. 17
    Comrade Kevin says:

    Maybe Rahm Emanuel threatened to throw Kucinich out of the plane?

  18. 18
    Tim F. says:

    Jane will always have Bart Stupak.

  19. 19
    mr. whipple says:

    It will be interesting to see what he says if he announces he’ll vote yes.

    Because just last week he made a fool of himself spewing RW talking points about how we had to ‘start over’ and how he was voting no because there was no PO, even though he didn’t vote for the House bill that did have the PO. Now he just looks like a weakling who was turned by a ride in AF1 or something else purchased, little better than the blue dogs that did the same.

    But maybe enough people will see that his precious ‘principles’ are bullshit. Always have been, always will be.

    That said, if this is true, it will flip me from someone that wouldn’t lift a finger to help him back to a supporter.

  20. 20
  21. 21
    lawguy says:

    To bad. Call me next year when you’ve digested the s-it sandwich and realized that we ain’t gonna get anything else but more national and individual debt in useless money to the private unregulated corporations.

    Listen, if this is just the first step and everything else is going to be so much easier in the future because of this, how come Medicare wasn’t the camel’s nose in the tent and everything wasn’t so much easier after that?

    You’ve been gamed and so has Dennis.

  22. 22
    unabogie says:

    @Chuchundra:

    I hope so. My rep, Kurt Schrader, is turning out to be quite the spineless jellyfish.

    The guy won’t even tall me which way he’s leaning.

    “He’s promised his constituents that he’ll read the bill before deciding”.

    Cowardly Kurt.

  23. 23
    Elisabeth says:

    I’m agnostic on Kucinich as a whole but if he held out long enough to get something worthwhile in exchange for his vote, good on him. If all it took was a bit of embarrassment at the hands of his constituents and the president, not so great. Because that was a very mild little smack.

  24. 24
    mr. whipple says:

    You’ve been gamed and so has Dennis.

    LOL. Yes, Dennis foolishly abandoned his most precious principles by Obama’s voodoo. Michael Moore must be having a breakdown, too, after saying Dennis was the only honest member of Congress.

  25. 25
    unabogie says:

    @lawguy:

    Medicare wasn’t nearly as comprehensive back then as it is now, so you’re sort of…what’s the word…wrong.

  26. 26
    Nellcote says:

    1. The WH let it be known the Prez would not be making appearances or fundraising for anyone voting against HCR.

    2. The unions let it be know they would be helping to primary anyone voting against HCR.

    1+2=focus the mind.

  27. 27
    Comrade Kevin says:

    @lawguy:

    Listen, if this is just the first step and everything else is going to be so much easier in the future because of this, how come Medicare wasn’t the camel’s nose in the tent and everything wasn’t so much easier after that?

    Because LBJ didn’t run for re-election, and the Vietnam War got in the way, and we ended up with Richard Nixon?

  28. 28
    Anne Laurie says:

    Let’s just hope the Elfin Clevelander doesn’t change his mind again and switch back to “No” because we’re all hurting his feeeelings here!

  29. 29
    Nellcote says:

    Full court press week! Bill Clinton was doing a HCR push with congresscritters today. Prez Obama does a HCR ‘event’ in Fairfax Virginia on Friday. And the Prez goes on Fox Wed.

  30. 30
    Mike Kay says:

    HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAAH
    HAHAHHAHAHHHHHHAAHAHHAHHHAHAHHHAHAHHAHAHHAH
    HAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAH
    HAHHHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHHAHAHHAHHAHHAHAHAH
    HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHHHHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAH

    THE FIREBAGGERS ARE IN FULL MELTDOWN.

    ALERT THE EMERGENCY ROOMS.

  31. 31
    Splitting Image says:

    Listen, if this is just the first step and everything else is going to be so much easier in the future because of this, how come Medicare wasn’t the camel’s nose in the tent and everything wasn’t so much easier after that?

    Nixon won. Next question.

    Comrade Kevin beat me to it.

  32. 32
    Mike Kay says:

    @Tim F.:

    THIS! A THOUSAND TIMES! THIS!

  33. 33
    mo says:

    This is going to happen!! We’re finally going to have (nearly) universal healthcare!

  34. 34
    Midnight Marauder says:

    I know there were people wondering in the previous thread if Hamsher would be pulling the ol’ “WE WANT OUR MONEY BACK!” card now that The Chicago Way has succeeded.

    Well, here is your answer:

    A thousand people have donated over $16,000 to Dennis since yesterday to thank him for standing up for what he believes in. We’ll be asking him to return it.

    Yeah, you aren’t surprised at all, are you?

  35. 35
    Mike Kay says:

    @Joseph Nobles:

    her crappy 12K — even Dennis would laugh at that.

  36. 36
    Redshift says:

    @dr. bloor:

    Apparently, getting pansted by the POTUS in front of the home town crowd has a marvelously clarifying effect on one’s thinking.

    dr. bloor wins the thread!

  37. 37
    Mike Kay says:

    Rahm 72 Firebaggers 0

  38. 38
    colby says:

    “how come Medicare wasn’t the camel’s nose in the tent and everything wasn’t so much easier after that?”

    It was. Medicare has been expanded far beyond it’s initial size and scope.

    And hell, since the initial Medicare legislation was introduced in 1962 but didn’t pass until 1965, this process has even been easier than that one!

  39. 39
    brantl says:

    To all the people that want to keep bitching about Dennis Kucinich? Bite me. If there is a more principled man in Congress, I’d like to meet him.

    You may not always agree with him, but if you don’t believe that he’s consistently done what he thinks is best for the american people, all of them, then you haven’t been paying attention.

  40. 40
    Elisabeth says:

    @Midnight Marauder:

    Can I get the money back they requested I donate to Massa for his principled stand back last summer?

  41. 41
    Martin says:

    Classy:

    A thousand people have donated over $16,000 to Dennis since yesterday to thank him for standing up for what he believes in. We’ll be asking him to return it.

  42. 42
    Mike Kay says:

    This is a dark, dark day for the Firebaggers and PUMAs

  43. 43
    Dave C says:

    @Midnight Marauder:

    Seriously? SERIOUSLY? What a lunatic.

  44. 44
    Zuzu's Petals says:

    @mr. whipple:

    Yeah, I was actually a little surprised (and disappointed) to see his defense of Kucinich.

    Of course he was campaigning for Nader right up until the 2000 election…and then proceeded to clutch his pearls over the result.

    Meh.

  45. 45
    Lev says:

    This is one of the first times that I can tell people that I’ve personally met Kucinich without the usual thread of mild embarrassment accompanying the statement.

  46. 46
    General Egali Tarian Stuck says:

    @brantl: I like Dennis, because he saw a UFO and is about as nutty as I am.

  47. 47
    Zuzu's Petals says:

    @Zuzu’s Petals:

    Moderation … huh?!

  48. 48
    NobodySpecial says:

    @brantl:

    The same comment also applies to folks like J.D. Hayworth. That’s not a good enough reason.

  49. 49

    @Martin: Why don’t you include the whole thing. Because she said he better have gotten the ERISA waiver. I hope you know what a big deal that would be.

  50. 50
    mr. whipple says:

    A thousand people have donated over $16,000 to Dennis since yesterday to thank him for standing up for what he believes in. We’ll be asking him to return it.

    If Obama did a fundraiser for DK, he’d pull in 50k for him easily, plus a bevy of volunteers, plus he’d get his union support back.

    Dennis can count, and he doesn’t have to worry about purity tests from firebagging nitwits.

    Last night Biden was in Cleveland doing a fundraiser for Gov. Strickland, and they had a small gathering of 40 people @ $4,800 a pop. Do the maths.

  51. 51
    Mike Kay says:

    RAHM!

  52. 52
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @brantl:

    To all the people that want to keep bitching about Dennis Kucinich? Bite me. If there is a more principled man in Congress, I’d like to meet him.
    __
    You may not always agree with him, but if you don’t believe that he’s consistently done what he thinks is best for the american people, all of them, then you haven’t been paying attention.

    I thought we covered this last week:

    But what if we don’t build in an exception for the so-called “liberal no’s” — that is, simply take every vote at face value? It turns out, then, that Davis is no longer the least valuable Democrat. Instead, it is Dennis Kucinich, who voted against health care, the hate crimes bill, the budget, the cap-and-trade bill, and financial regulation — all ostensibly from the left — in spite of coming from from the strongly Democratic Ohio 10th district near Cleveland.

    And this might be my favorite comment of the night from anywhere (of course, it comes from the FDL Kucinich Freak Out Thread):

    Why would Dennis disclose to Howard Fineman of all people? It just doesn’t sound right.

    The helicopters. They are amused tonight.

  53. 53
    WereBear says:

    I believe he was Obama-fu-ed.

  54. 54
    Woodbuster says:

    I’ll believe it when I fucking hear him on the floor of the House. Not until then. No way. And if he does vote “aye,” I’ll think of him every time I see Air Force One.

  55. 55
    mr. whipple says:

    If there is a more principled man in Congress, I’d like to meet him.

    Just last week he said he’s vote no, even if he was the deciding vote, because of his principles.

    What happened?

  56. 56
    williamc says:

    @Midnight Marauder:

    Jeez, can some lefty group somewhere arrange a meeting, on tv, of a banana cream pie and Hamsher’s face soon? This is going to get ridiculous soon, with her representing the whole “true left” and all now and as someone whose politcs are even more to the left of this crazy lady, she’s going to fuck it up for the rest of us.

  57. 57
    Mike Kay says:

    @Midnight Marauder:

    5 stages of Grief

    Denial

    Anger

    Bargaining

    Depression

    Acceptance

    Sounds like that Firebagger is still on Denial, while Jane is already somewhere between Anger and Bargaining.

  58. 58
    The Sheriff's A Ni- says:

    I think he got union-fu’d, actually. They still hold heavy weight up here and if they told him ‘vote for HCR or we’re really seriously calling Joe Cimperman’, then its obvious he knew where to jump.

  59. 59
    Mike Kay says:

    @williamc:

    RAHM! RAHM! RAHM! RAHM! RAHM! RAHM!

  60. 60
    Dannie22 says:

    @Mike Kay

    happy tonight Mike?

  61. 61
    CynDee says:

    @brantl: Amen. Dennis chose what he thinks is best. I honor him for risking embarrassment and inconvenience now. He is there in the middle of it all, we are not; it’s easy to judge from afar.

  62. 62
    Martin says:

    @Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle: Why should I include that? She’s not even going on a rumor there. It’s more pony wishing. But even if the pony wishing is true, she still wants the money back. I don’t see any reason why I should try and polish Janes turd.

    Now, if he gets ERISA, that’s cool (provided that it doesn’t screw up getting it passed). I’m not much of a Kucinich basher – but voting against this is simply counterproductive. Kudos for him for coming around.

  63. 63
    Violet says:

    Just read the comments over at FDL. Oh, my! The meltdown is epic. Definitely need more popcorn for this. Those poor firebaggers have nowhere left to go. Rachel Maddow has gone all corporatist. Digby is a turncoat. Markos is a traitor. Must suck to be that much of a Puritan.

  64. 64
    Texas Dem says:

    A thousand people have donated over $16,000 to Dennis since yesterday to thank him for standing up for what he believes in. We’ll be asking him to return it.

    Hahahahahahahahaha!!!! Obama could raise that for Dennis in less than five minutes. But I suspect the unions are what really brought Dennis around.

  65. 65
    Redshift says:

    @brantl: I generally agree that Kucinich advocates for positions that he thinks are best for the American people, but that’s not the same as doing what’s best.

    The job of politicians is not just to hold principled stands that are too pure to ever get implemented. It’s to get things done for the people you serve, to make things better even if you can’t get what you know would be best.

    I’ve never supported Kucinich’s presidential campaigns even when he takes positions that I would love to see implemented, like single-payer and free college education, because I’ve never gotten the sense or seen the evidence that he has the ability to accomplish any of them.

  66. 66
    mcc says:

    A thousand people have donated over $16,000 to Dennis since yesterday to thank him for standing up for what he believes in. We’ll be asking him to return it.

    Hell if Kucinich will actually act like a progressive I’ll donate to him

    I will set up an actblue page and everything! If I can do that? You can just do that, right?

  67. 67
    slag says:

    @williamc:

    crazy bitch

    Every time I read this expression–or “stupid bitch” or “dumb bitch”–I envision the writer sitting in his trailer with a wife beater on his back and a Budweiser in his hand.

    Take that as you will.

  68. 68
    Mike Kay says:

    @Dannie22: +

    IT’S LIKE TIMES SQUARE ON V-J DAY

    http://www.rjgeib.com/thoughts/caine/vj.jpg

    Mmmmmmmmmmmmmwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahh!

  69. 69
    Texas Dem says:

    Just read the comments over at FDL. Oh, my! The meltdown is epic. Definitely need more popcorn for this. Those poor firebaggers have nowhere left to go. Rachel Maddow has gone all corporatist. Digby is a turncoat. Markos is a traitor. Must suck to be that much of a Puritan.

    They’re entering the Darkness at Noon phase of their political meltdown. The search for traitors never ends…..

  70. 70
    Anne Laurie says:

    @brantl:

    You may not always agree with him, but if you don’t believe that he’s consistently done what he thinks is best for the american people, all of them, then you haven’t been paying attention.

    Comes a point where personal principles are for philosophers, and constituents’ needs are for politicians. Establishing where this point falls has made a career for many great novelists, not to mention historians, but Congressman Kucinich’s principles have made all of us pro-HCR Americans his constituents, which is why we are demanding better customer service.

  71. 71
    Mike Kay says:

    @mcc:

    THIS! He can either be with us or against us. If he’s with us, we’ll give him the Howard Dean treatment.

  72. 72
    Nellcote says:

    @Martin:

    I’ll probably regret asking but what is the ERISA waiver?

  73. 73
    Bruce Webb says:

    I always liked Jane, not least because face it she is cute as a bug, but the curse of the Left is what it has been since the dawn of time, principle bleeds over to fanaticism and the real enemy for the Peoples Front of Judea becomes The Judean Peoples Liberation Front. The Sparts have been trapped by this for decades, loyalty to the Party Line of the splinter trumps all else.

  74. 74
    Jon H says:

    “Dennis, man, you have a beautiful wife. How’d you two like to join the very exclusive Air Force 1 Mile-High Club?”

  75. 75
    Comrade Kevin says:

    @Anne Laurie: That’s a very good way of putting it, Anne.

    @Bruce Webb: How about the Popular Front?

  76. 76

    My wife and I have to pay over $20,000 a year for health insurance because we’re self-employed and have pre-existing conditions: we’re over 50.
    I’d pay DK the 16000 to get some hope of relief from this. That leaves us at least $4000 to buy ads telling Jane to go f*ck herself– and Norville too.

  77. 77
    PTirebiter says:

    @JK: Can you believe that’s coming from the American Enterprise Institute? That some sort of tipping point is being reached is probably too much to hope for.

  78. 78
    Martin says:

    @Nellcote: ERISA limits the abilities of states and municipalities to mandate health and pension funds for private sector workers unless they meet certain cost and service standards and sets those functions as a job of the federal government. States that wish to implement single-payer plans need to meet ERISA – and most don’t. Hawaii has a waiver because it’s plan was implemented in 74, the same year that ERISA was passed.

    How important it is to get that waiver is difficult to gauge. Jane and Kucinich say it’s critical to getting state-level single payer implemented, and it is, but there’s just not a hell of a lot of movement on that front so it’s not terribly clear whether getting the waiver would lead to anything at all.

  79. 79
    Texas Dem says:

    Maybe Rahm Emanuel threatened to throw Kucinich out of the plane?

    Already been done. See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pij7Ap_gL4

  80. 80
    hamletta says:

    About Kucinich’s much-vaunted principles: He’s always been leftier-than-thou, but being a devout Catholic, he was always anti-choice…until he decided to run for President in 2004.

    Dick Gephardt had started his career as an anti-choicer, too, but during the 2004 primary season, he appeared at the NARAL(?) dinner, and I remember watching his speech on a postage-stamp screen online on C-Span, and weeping as he described his change of heart during his time in Congress, after meeting many women in untenable situations.

    If that wasn’t an honest journey to a change in position, Gephardt deserves an Oscar.

    Kucinich, not so much. John Kerry’s as devout a Catholic as anyone, and he never had any problem separating his beliefs from what the law should be.

    But Kucinich represented an old, inner-city district that was largely Polish Catholic when he started out, so his position probably won him support.

    Wait, wasn’t this about principles?

  81. 81
    Sly says:

    @Nellcote:

    ERISA = Employee Retirement Income Security Act.

    There’s a provision in the Act (Section 514(a)) that allows federal law to preempt any state law that relates to an employee benefits plan. San Francisco’s public plan was challenged by a restaurant association whose members are being mandated to pay into a fund to support the plan (it’s 1 dollar for every employee, I believe).

    The conservative 4th Circuit, in a different case, has defined public health plans as “employee benefits,” which clearly fits with their predilection for strict readings and legislative intent. The liberal 9th circuit, in which the SF case was decided, has defined “employee benefits plan” as “employee benefits,” meaning that charging businesses to maintain a public insurance program does not amount to “employee benefits”. This is because they’re all a bunch of activist judges who want to create law rather than call balls and strikes.

    SCOTUS hasn’t heard the case yet, so as of right now any state within the 9th circuit can enact a public insurance program and any state in the 4th circuit cannot. If the SCOTUS does hear it, I’d lay good money on the likelihood that the 9th circuit decision would be upheld. The last decision that dealt with 514(a) was in 1993, used a narrow interpretation, and was unanimous.

    A waiver provision for public plans would make the SCOTUS irrelevant.

  82. 82
    hamletta says:

    Oh, and while I’m remembering the 2004 primary, Kucinich got “busted” in a debate after the Iowa caucuses when it had been revealed that he’d made a deal with the Edwards campaign to trade supporters in precincts where neither had enough supporters to get a delegate.

    The question was something to the effect that if he was so Simon-pure, how could he stoop to backroom deals with the Breck girl?

    “Because I wanted votes,” he said.

    Edwards, of course, was not yet the Unmitigated Cad that he is today, but still.

    His stubbornness has served his constituents well in the past, and it’s worked well for his image, but in the case of HCR, a “no” vote would leave so many of the people he serves in the shit. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he knows that, but was holding out for something better as long as he could.

  83. 83
    drillfork says:

    I’m bothered because people who I read and respect support HCR, but I still lean Firebagger. It just sounds like bad legislation that will expand the insurance companies’ captive audience without making them do anything different than what they do now. And then there’s the odious abortion stuff on top of that.

    I just can’t understand why you people are so excited about this bone they’re throwing you. And this is a 45-year-old with zip for health insurance talkin’…

  84. 84
    Jon H says:

    @drillfork: “It just sounds like bad legislation that will expand the insurance companies’ captive audience without making them do anything different than what they do now. And then there’s the odious abortion stuff on top of that.”

    On the other hand, the status quo is untenable, and it’s hard to conceive of Democrats being able to get themselves into a position more favorable than they had in 2009 any time soon.

    Most likely the Dems are going to lose seats in both houses this year, so how do you propose to pass a better bill?

    The aspects of the bill that don’t suck will help. The aspects of the bill that do suck… well, hopefully they’ll at least help generate more public anti-insurance company sentiment and motivate the shitheads in Congress to do the right thing in a few years. Hopefully when yet another industry-friendly solution fails, Congress will be less likely to give them another chance.

  85. 85
    Jeff Fecke says:

    @drillfork:

    When you have nothing at all, a bone is better than nothing.

    Look, the history of social welfare programs in this country is one of starting small and building. Social Security left whole swathes of workers out when it was first passed. Medicare and Medicaid have been dramatically improved since passage. In general, we’ve started our programs small and improved them as time went on.

    If this bill passes, we enshrine into law the idea that all Americans get health care. That’s a big, big deal. When we push for the public option a year or two down the line, we’re not having to start from zero — everyone’s getting health insurance. We’re just making a change to the system already in place.

    But if this bill fails, then those pushing for the public option in twenty years are going to have to convince people that we should give everyone health care — only we won’t have done anything today, so things will be much, much worse than they are now. Whoever the president is who proposes health care probably settles for some desperately watered-down proposal that makes this plan look wildly consequential. After all, this plan is a plan similar to the one the GOP put forward in 1993. The Clinton plan of the same year was a watered-down version of plans put forward in the late 70s, which were watered-down versions of plans put forward under Nixon, which were watered-down versions of plans put forward under Truman.

    So yeah, I’ll take my slice of bread. It’s not the whole loaf. But it’s better than nothing. And if I don’t take this slice now? Then we’ll be lucky to get crumbs a generation from now.

  86. 86
    gwangung says:

    I’m bothered because people who I read and respect support HCR, but I still lean Firebagger. It just sounds like bad legislation that will expand the insurance companies’ captive audience without making them do anything different than what they do now. And then there’s the odious abortion stuff on top of that.

    Given that this is the Senate plan we’re talking about, it sounds like you’re a bit out of step on the abortion issue.

    If you’re out of step there, what else are you out of step with?

  87. 87
    eemom says:

    “It just sounds like bad legislation that will expand the insurance companies’ captive audience without making them do anything different than what they do now.”

    Maybe you ought to find out what it actually does, not just what it “sounds like.”

    It will make them do some rather major things “different” from what they do now. That’s, you know, why they’re fighting it so hard — which they wouldn’t be doing if it was the big fat “give away” that Hamsher manages to convince suckers like you that it is.

  88. 88
    BruinKid says:

    OMG. Look at the 2nd comment in the FDL link.

    How sad would it be if the only Democrat who’s come through the HCR process with his dignity and integrity intact is Bart Stupak?

    Dignity and integrity intact??? OMFG. These people are living on a different planet. I thought the FDL types were against the abortion language, and now they’re praising Stupak as the paragon of virtue???

    FAIL.

  89. 89
    Janus Daniels says:

    FWIW, I never expected Kucinich to vote with Jane & Grover; he just wanted to push as far as he could.
    If so, good.

  90. 90
    DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal) says:

    @Nellcote: @Mike Kay:

    I decided to ‘visit the zoo’ and chased one of the links here to FDL to look at life on the wild side. I was rolling with laughter at their indignation at Move On, unions and other groups who are threatening to primary those who vote against the bill. Same with their asking Kucinich to give back the $16,000.00 they gave him, it made me laugh out loud. I guess if your ‘donation’ doesn’t buy you anything then you can ask for it back? Doesn’t that mean that the ‘donation’ they gave Kucinich was actually an attempted “bribe”?

    While some have defended FDL regarding being on the PUMA bandwagon I absolutely have no doubt that there are quite a few PUMA crazies commenting there. Some of the posters there are absolutely demented about Obama, their comments are no different than those at the regular PUMA sites. I wouldn’t be surprised to find that some of the Hillaryis44 regulars are over there, I am seeing the same kind of screeds against Obama and the Democrats that I have read over at His44. The tone of a Puma is an unmistakable yowl, kind of like a squeaky chalkboard but worse.

    That’s what happens when you toss garbage all over your site, you attract hungry animals like PUMAs and ratfuckers.

  91. 91
    NR says:

    @eemom:

    That’s, you know, why they’re fighting it so hard—which they wouldn’t be doing if it was the big fat “give away” that Hamsher manages to convince suckers like you that it is.

    The reason they’re fighting it so hard is because they’ve made great gains by doing so, and the Democrats have bent over backwards time and time again to water it down to their liking. Why stop now?

  92. 92
    CalD says:

    @hamletta: Another oddity I noticed in Kucinich’s pre-2004 voting record was he used to be a reliable vote for the flag-burning amendment. Any idea what was up with that?

  93. 93
    El Cid says:

    @BruinKid:

    How sad would it be if the only Democrat who’s come through the HCR process with his dignity and integrity intact is Bart Stupak?

    An apparent public stance, boldly enough portrayed, is often mistaken for principle.

  94. 94
    slightly_peeved says:

    It just sounds like bad legislation that will expand the insurance companies’ captive audience without making them do anything different than what they do now.

    You know the FEHBP? If you don’t have insurance, you basically get to join it. People without employer insurance or in small business get to join what is in most ways a copy of the current insurance exchange for federal employees, to the point that it is mostly administered by the Secretary of HHS.

    On top of that, this exchange – and everyone else – now can’t discriminate against pre-existing conditions. The only recission can now occur in cases of material fraud, as opposed to the bullshit “didn’t mention an acne check” fraud they use now. Pre-existing conditions can’t be used as a reason to deny care.

    And a whole heap more people get medicaid.

    It’s not the Netherlands – yet – but opening up a FEHBP-style marketplace to the uninsured and eliminating discrimination based on pre-existing conditions are big, big changes to the way health insurance works in the US.

  95. 95
    Joey Maloney says:

    @Cat Lady:

    I’m thinking Dennis was offered a Pinochet-style ride if he didn’t come across.

    Well, no I’m not thinking that, but it’s funny to imagine that scene.

    @slag:

    Every time I read this expression—or “stupid bitch” or “dumb bitch”—I envision the writer sitting in his trailer with a wife beater on his back and a Budweiser in his hand.
    Take that as you will.

    “You’re a mad bitch, you are!”

    @El Cid:

    An apparent public stance, boldly widely enough portrayed, is often mistaken for principle.

  96. 96
    Legalize says:

    But but, Obami can’t close the deal! There’s no way he can beat out Hillary Clinton. And he can’t beat John McCain – he’s a MAVERICK!! And, and, and there’s no way he can convince even members of his own party to vote for HCR!!!

Comments are closed.