Senator Rockefeller, constituents on line two…
Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D-W.V.) threw a wrench into Democratic efforts to get a public option passed through reconciliation, saying that he thought the maneuver was overly partisan and that he was inclined to oppose it. . .
“I don’t think the timing of it is very good,” the West Virginia Democrat said on Monday. “I’m probably not going to vote for that” . . . In making his sentiment known, Rockefeller becomes perhaps the most unexpected skeptic of the public-option-via-reconciliation route. The Senator was a huge booster of a government run insurance option during the legislation drafting process this past year.
Is your Democratic Senator solid on reconciliation? Maybe you should phone and find out.
Switchboard: (202) 224-3121.
Guide for first-timers here.
***Update***
Check to see whether your Senator is on mcc’s whip count list. We urgently need statements from (and pressure on) Webb, Warner, Baucus, Bingaman, Casey, McCaskill, Mikulski, Hagan and both Udalls. If you live in any of those states (VA, PA, MT, NM, MO, NC, and CO) please pick up the phone and call.
Daddy-O
Politics is completely incomprehensible sometimes…
Is this really the same man who stood for the public option a few short months ago…who now tells us that we can’t have the public option because we don’t have 60 votes?
It IS?
Only one question left. In God’s name, WHY?
Osprey
As I’ve said before, they’re trying their damnedest to find an excuse to not get shit done. It’s been their mission objective since 2006.
Greenwald
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/02/23/democrats/index.html
null pointer exception
This is so tiring. Thank god I don’t live in the US.
Will
This is where I’m getting confused. I understand that Rockefeller isn’t inclined to use reconciliation to pass a public option. But is there is a situation where reconciliation will need to be used to pass a non-public option plan through the Senate?
To that end, since the White House has offered its own proposal, what does the White House expect Congress’ next move to be? It appears that the Senate would need to vote on this proposal again, since it has changed from what it originally passed. Could it be that Rockefeller could still support reconciliation minus a public option, if it becomes necessary?
I know that this stuff has been explained a lot here already, but if someone has a clear brush-up for me, I’d appreciated it.
flounder
You might remind him that the public option is basically more popular with Republicans than any other part of health care reform.
johnb
a week or so ago, hagan said she is (and always has been) on-board with HCR.
SGEW
Schumer and Gillibrand are on board.
Zach
Since the math’s changed from 60 to 50 votes on this, everyone will be wrangling to be in the Landrieu/Lincoln/Nelson/Snowe/Bayh position on the reconciliation vote to get their preferred language into the bill. Rockefeller isn’t all that far from being the 50th-most-liberal Senator depending on how you figure it… although he tends to be more liberal on social spending than other areas.
Daddy-O
Will, the only explanation I can think of is this: Rockefeller is afraid of Big Pharma. He’s afraid that the gravy train will cease, and he’s afraid that they will get him un-elected.
He’s afraid of nothing.
His constituents aren’t stupid enough to misinterpret his actions. If he’s brave enough to come through with the public option, they will REWARD HIM HANDSOMELY, no matter how many ads Big Pharma buys to oust him from his Senate seat. They will reward him properly–by re-electing him with a huge margin.
So…the mystery remains. Maybe Big Pharma is actually evil enough to start ASSASSINATING politicos? It’s just possible.
Tim F.
@SGEW: @johnb:
Thanks guys.
KDP
Boxer and Feinstein are onboard
Rick Taylor
Is it possible Rockefeller could be hesitating, because he thinks if the public option passes in the senate, the senate bill will lose the votes it needs to pass in the House?
Joe Beese
Greenwald explains the futility of what you’re proposing:
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/02/23/democrats/index.html
johnb
@Zach: this seems like the most likely explanation.
TrevorB
Baucus does not support reconcilliation, Tester supports minor changes through reconcilliation
cat48
Why hasn’t Feingold said yes??? He ran around everywhere in the process of passing the Senate Bill. He was on TV and the press blasting Obama for not supporting a public option. The man was friggin everywhere. Wanted everyone know it was all his fault and no one elses. But now, he hasn’t decided……such a hard decision for him now that Obama could care less if the Congress will just PTDB.
I frankly think the PO should be delayed until later because it just gives the repugs another weapon to club Dems with in an election yr. The old government run and controlled health care. It is a divisive issue in the Senate and it could derail health care completely. I would really hate to see that happen again.
ajr22
If the bill that obama proposed can pass, is it worth risking that to try to push the public option through? Some times you got to just take what you can get and live to fight another day.
Steve
@cat48: Every other year is an election year. We can’t keep taking important things off the table just because the Republicans might try to demagogue them.
Mike Kay
Does this mean Hamsher and the Firebaggers will “primary” Rockefeller?
And why hasn’t raving liberal Ron Wyden signed on? I await the
free passdenouncement of Wyden on GOS.debit
My two senators from MN are on board. I wish senators would listen to calls from other states, as this affects all of us, not just their constituents.
cec
@TimF and @johnb I spoke to Hagan’s office yesterday afternoon (2/22/2010) and her position is still the same as it was a few weeks ago. No official position on reconciliation. Hopes that they can come up with a bipartisan solution.
Mike Kay
PS this shows what a sham the Bennett petition was, and how dumb GOS and the Firebaggers were, trying to kick the football, yet again.
Bullsmith
Wow Rockafeller’s a douche. Nobody forced him to declare himself champion of the public option, he went out and thumped his chest as hard as he could till it became an actual possibility. So now he runs and hides behind “bipartisanship.” Because passing a mandate to force you buy insurance with zero Republican votes is more “bipartisan” than passing a pubic option.
All ego, no shame. Describes the whole political class these days, pretty much.
Mike Kay
@cat48:
ya know Feingold is a piece of work. he was the first one to scream about the public option failing, and NOW he’s no where to be found, hiding is a secure-undisclosed-location.
Pangloss
Durbin and Franken are “meh?” Surprised. They’re smart guys. Do they know something?
Bill E Pilgrim
@Daddy-O:
The answer is really pretty clear as Glenzilla lays out here.
I already e-mailed Rockefeller, for all the good it will do.
The idea that filibustering everything is normal while using a simple majority is “pushing” a bill past anyone is new math on LSD.
Mike Kay
Oh, and don’t get me started on Chris Dodd.
First he comes out against Filibuster reform, and now he won’t sign the public option position.
For the 1,016,784 time, Dodd has always been a phoney, and the suckers who donated to his presidential campaign were and are fools.
snarkout
Is this that hard to parse? Greenwald notwithstanding, does anyone actually think that Jay Rockefeller, who wrote the good public option amendment, doesn’t want a public option? It’s clear to me that Rockefeller thinks that if they pass a strong public option through reconcilliation, it’ll die in the House, where Pelosi has a few but not many votes to give up thanks to Stupak and his merry band of panty-sniffers.
geg6
Specter is definitely aboard. Casey’s office says he is good for HCR in reconciliation but has not yet taken a stand on the public option. However, the staffer did admit that Casey was for it in the past and may yet again, but will not sign anything until after the forum on Thursday.
Sentient Puddle
@cat48: Feingold is apparently more of a process hawk than some people think. As I remember, he was one of the people who was adamantly opposed to even putting reconciliation on the table last summer. Though by that measure, I also have no idea why he was so pissed at Obama not pushing harder for a public option…
Either way, I wouldn’t expect his support on public option through reconciliation. Possibly the rejigger, though.
BC
I called Senator Baucus’ office, he has not made up his mind on what to do. But I told the receptionist that health care reform is important enough to do through reconciliation. Senator Tester’s office reported that Senator Tester thinks health care reform is important and process isn’t.
Luthe
I hope our gracious host is on the phone giving his
douchebagSenator a piece of his mind.I wonder if threatening to sic Tunch on him will make Rockefeller change his mind?
Admiral_Komack
Democrats:
“Don’t you know that we just want to bitch about Obama; we don’t want to get shit done!”
Will
@snarkout:
Yeah, I am disinclined to buy Greenwald’s very comforting but overly conspiratorial Unified Theory of Democrats Fucking Us Over. I think it’s a little more complicated than that. His vision of Democrats huddling together and round-robining the asshole of the week just doesn’t fly. No way they would ever be that organized, for one thing.
cat48
@Steve:
I know it is always election time. I’m just so tired of the Repugs harrassment and the Dems dividing and fighting each other over health care. I know in the end it would be worth it. I just don’t want the bill derailed again.
Pelosi said yesterday she didn’t have the votes so not real enthusiastic today.
slag
@Joe Beese: What Greenwald really lacks in that column is a motive for the Democrats’ behavior. We’ve all got our guesses but nobody really seems to know why they do what they do. This is a trust issue.
BenA
@Will:
Yeah I’m more inclined to believe, that for the most part, most of our Senators (no matter what party) are just really really stupid and really really greedy.
Do these Senators really think the health care industry is going to stop paying them if they vote for HCR? Who else are they going to pay?
slag
@Will: Personally, I can’t explain why Joe Lieberman would, on his own accord, go after Don’t Ask Don’t Tell. Can you?
Steve
@cat48: I’m not real enthusiastic either. But sometimes we out-think ourselves on these things. I believe we can say A (“a public option would be good”) without also saying B (“let’s sink any bill without a public option”). Every time we decide to advocate for something, people insist on thinking one move ahead: “What if we don’t get it, what should we do then?” Sometimes this is a recipe for paralysis.
It’s unlikely that a public option will actually get into the bill, but if it does, then awesome! If the votes are somehow there to get it into the bill, then the votes will be there to pass the bill as a whole. It’s not like the GOP is going to vote for the public option as a poison pill; for one thing, it’s too popular to be a poison pill.
Sentient Puddle
And yeah, as far as Rockafeller goes, I’m inclined towards Ezra’s take: he’s publicly saying what lawmakers are saying privately. If you ever got your hopes up over Bennet’s attempt at reviving the public option, you were fooling yourself. Good intentions and all, but man, he fucked up bad on the tactics.
BenA
@slag:
I think it’s obvious. It’s got absolutely zero chance of giving him any negative fallout… no one is going to stop writting him checks because he introduced DADT legislation. He’s throwing the base a bone… he doesn’t care if it passes or not.
mr. whipple
I am so tired of these douchebags. Just exhausted with their douchbaggery.
Mike Kay
Greenwald is a sad little conspiracy theorist, hopped-up on meth.
I understand what rockefeller is doing: how do you get house members to pass the senate bill if it contains a PO that is stronger than the House bill. The House version of the PO stunk and it only passed by 5 votes (3 of which are no longer there). It appears that pelosi has lost Stupak’s abortion nuts of 14, which means Pelosi is gonna need some dreaded blue dogs who won’t vote for any bill containing a PO.
So there — it’s a classic push-pull, situation. There aren’t enough senate votes (60) to pass the house bill, because of the PO, and if the Senate passes a PO of their own, there won’t be enough House votes to pass the Senate bill, because the House vote has shifted.
geg6
Inouye’s a yes on the public option, according to TPM.
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/02/sen-inouye-23-senator-public-option-letter.php?ref=fpa
Waynski
@Daddy-O — I don’t know WV politics very well, so this is rank speculation, but I think Rockefeller’s position on the PO right now might have more to do with a backroom deal to kill Cap and Trade than the public option. If Rockefeller gets the poor people in his state subsidized health care and is seen as having saved all those coal mining jobs, well, re-election should be a cake walk. He’d be inoculating himself from the teabaggers and I’m guessing in WV they’ve probably got a few. Care to speculate yourself, JC? It would be irresponsible not to.
snarkout
33 – I think Greenwald has a bone to pick with Rockefeller thanks to his incredibly unhelpful stance on some of the national security investigations that got Greenwald going in 2006-2007 (which is totally legitimate!), but I’ve never seen any indication that Rockefeller has been less than constructive on health care reform. The only player in this whole mess I trust implicitly is Pelosi, but Rockefeller has earned the benefit of my doubt. I think the “oh, it’s not bipartisan” stuff is doubletalk, but even that is fairly consistent with my reading that Rockefeller just wants to shepherd the best bill possible through the morass of cowardly and innately self-destructive Democrats and get something useful passed into law.
37 – Because he’s not a culture warrior, just a liberal-hating warmongering jackass who needs to burnish his Bigger Than Partisanship cred so he can still get fellated on Sunday morning talk shows? Also, his BFF McCain was for DADT repeal before Haysworth reared up, so he’s got the okay from the Very Serious level boss. Who knows, maybe he even thinks he’ll get the Democratic nomination for Senate in 2012.
cat48
@Steve:
Your right. Might as well try to get the ideal package first. I’ll call Durbin later and pretend I’m my daughter who lives in IL. Right now, my Congress folks really don’t want to hear about health care here in SC. I have called them just for the fun of it to harrass them in the past. I plan to send Deminted a Not Obama’s Waterloo letter, HA, if the bill ever passes.
Mike Kay
@Waynski:
Rockefeller isn’t up for reelection until 2014.
He was a two term governor, now serving his 5th term as senator (which mean he’s won 7 consecutive elections). He won his last election by 28 points. His seat is completely safe.
uila
Tim, Mikulski is on board. It’s Ben Cardin who has been mum on reconciliation.
Thanks!
EDIT – just checked the spreadsheet, I guess Cardin is solid on reconciliation, but he hasn’t signed on to Bennett’s public option letter. However, Mikulski has signed the letter. Marylanders best be safe and call them both!
Waynski
@Mike Kay — Well, like I said, it was rank
speculationbullshit apparently . Thanks for bringing me up to speed.J. Michael Neal
@Will:
UTDFUO? Fucking Democrats can’t even come up with acronyms that scan well.
cat48
@Mike Kay:
He’s really upset right now about cap n trade and the EPA’s new standards they came out with. He’s busy harrassing the EPA secy who is working with him according to Think Progress. He does have such a poor state–I understand the EPA worry. He keeps calling it a clean coal state. It should follow though he would get the cheapest ins. plan he could for them, but what do I know??
gopher2b
Does anyone know about Durbin? I assumed he was a lock but heard on NPR the other day that he wasn’t. I was shocked and cannot imagine that is true.
Cain
It seems to me that bi-partisan really means Democrats and blue dog democrats. There isn’t really anybody else. We really need to sell it like that.
cain
mr. whipple
@J. Michael Neal:
“UTDFUO?”
How about DTUUTBASUINTBASUITFR?
(democrats throwing us under the bus and stabbing us in the back and slapping us in the face Rahm?)
Tazistan Jen
@Sentient Puddle:
I’ve got to stick up for my Senator a bit here. Even if the public option doesn’t make it through this time, it is going to come back. The sooner the Senate gets the spadework started, the sooner it can happen.
Nick
@gopher2b: There’s a concern among the leadership that the public option whip count will lead to 46 or 47 (with them included) and that progressives will push for it and force them and the WH to strike shady deals and compromises with the last three or four Senators to reach fifty and if they can get 50 without the public option, they’d rather go with that.
Already there is about three or four Senators who support reconciliation but not the public option (Conrad, Baucus, Bayh, Nelson)
Svensker
Wasn’t there supposed to be a big two-day call-in, Feb 23 & 24? Originally proposed on Daily Kos? Is that still on? Waiting for the Prez’s meet? What gives?
rob!
Even though he’s already for it, I called Sen. Menendez’s (NJ) office and told him how happy we are he signed the petition to bring back the Public Option.
I said that I bet his office only gets calls from people complaining, so I thought it was worth it to call and say something positive.
eemom
I would love to inhabit a world where congress would pass single payer. I would like a public option just as much as anyone else.
But I’m starting to hate the very words “public option,” because they have become so inextricably associated with assholes like Hamsher who really need to shut the fuck up, NOW, and stop confusing people.
This thing is hanging by a thread, and so are 40 thousand uninsured people. It HAS to PASS. If the public option is an impediment to that, FUCK the public option.
slag
@BenA:
Yes, but why? What’s his motive? Do you think somebody asked him to do it? That there was some strategery involved here?
It would seem to me that a collective strategy is the likely explanation for Lieberman’s behavior since “doing the right thing” doesn’t ever appear to be one of his motivating forces. So, while I have doubts about Greenwald’s premise that Democrats are secretly conspiring to kill the public option, I do see why–with all the mixed messages being sent–someone would hold that premise.
The question becomes: Are Democrats a bunch of independent actors who do whatever suits their fancy at any given moment or are they organized around some strategy? Any sane person would answer that it’s both. But how do you know which is happening when–independent or collective action? It’s a reasonable question. Beyond which, their seemingly erratic and counterproductive behavior invariably must raise questions about Democrats as a group. Are they nefarious or just incompetent? Fools or knaves?
J.D.
As a VA resident, I called the offices of both Webb and Warner. Didn’t get any commitment from either. Told them it was time to start acting like Democrats. In hindsight that was a mistake, as in recent history too many Democrats have acted like gutless wonders and backstabbing corporate bootlicks. So may have sent the wrong message.
eemom
and it’s just obscene for that twit Greenwald to aim his daily pissfest at Jay Rockefeller of all people, who’s done more to get HCR done than Greenwald and his ilk could accomplish in a thousand lifetimes.
snarkout
61 – It’s popular with the general public, can plausibly sold as a warmongery national security consideration, burnishes his supposed Democrat bonafides, and doesn’t piss off Lieberman’s base of neo-cons and Connecticut insurance companies. Further, as disheartening as it would be to Democrats, I don’t think Holy Joe has any real way of stopping it. Why wouldn’t he confuse his enemies by jumping aboard?
Sentient Puddle
@Tazistan Jen: Yeah, and I suppose I should note that I really do like Bennet quite a bit, and would support him pretty enthusiastically if I lived in Colorado. I just don’t think the way he’s handling this is doing the cause any favors at the moment.
Palooza
Udall — still has not made a decision. Aide basically put me off by saying he would “relay my message.” Could not get him to tell me when Udall would make a decision. Aide said to check back to website b/c that is where the decision will be announced. Non-committal B.S.
Mouse Tolliver
For the love of crap. MSNBC is letting us know how young people will be affected by health care reform. For this perspective they’re interviewing Republican himbo Aaron Shock. And this is a followup to an earlier interview with Republican Ron Paul. Our liberal media at work.
MikeJ
He gets to pretend to be morally courageous by sponsoring something overwhelmingly popular. There’s no downside.
cat48
@slag:
I think Obama asked Lieberman since he’s a hawk and Repugs are less likely to bash him.
Evidently John thinks Obama asked also–John’s post 2/22
MikeJ
Heather Graham wants the public option.
Bob S
@slag:
Money?
But go ahead, call, write, whatever…
Sentient Puddle
@Palooza: Probably should indicate if it’s Tom or Mark.
General Egal Tarian Stuck
@eemom:
Hanging by a thread indeed. And if some of our prog wizards would bother to actually read the context within Rockefeller making his statement, they might get a clue. But that would get in the way of a good poutfest.
A number of dems who are and always been for a PO are worried about the tenuous situation and think it’s premature to go full metal on a PO, at least until after the summit with Obama on Thursday. That likely includes Rockefeller when he states simply the timing might not be right at the moment.
slag
@cat48: Yes, I agree with that assessment.
Mike Kay
@slag:
@eemom:
Greenwald puts on his special tin-foil hat when he scribbles out his delusions.
BTD
Funny thread.
NR
@eemom:
Right, because the only thing preventing those 40 (million) uninsured people from buying insurance now was the fact that the government wasn’t forcing them to do it!
Fucking nuts.
(And yes, I know about the preexisting conditions problem. But
forcingallowing these people to buy insurance that they probably can’t afford, or afford to use when they get sick, isn’t much of a solution to the problem, especially given that there is nothing in the bill that prevents the insurance companies from dropping their coverage as soon as they need expensive treatment, or simply refusing to pay for that treatment even if they don’t drop them outright. This is why the public option is essential to reform).General Egal Tarian Stuck
Senator Bingaman’s staffer states absolute support for using reconciliation to pass fixes to the existing HCR Senate bill. And will vote yea. And after the staffer telling me Bingaman hasn’t made an official statement on using Budget Recon. to also pass a PO, but strongly supports a PO, he finally told me unofficially that yes, his staff fully expects him to support and vote yea for a PO if offered for passage by a simple majority during a Recon. process.
Couldn’t get thru to Udall, but no one should really worry about this guy, he is all liberal and will support a PO for recon. especially if Bingaman does. And my take away is that Bingaman will, and I never had a single doubt he wouldn’t.
Nick
@General Egal Tarian Stuck:
Drew
I called Jim Webb’s office and told the intern that I would like Mr. Webb to support reconciliation of the HCR bill, I didn’t ask what the official word on reconciliation was, so I don’t have that info.
After that call, I called Mark Warner’s office and asked about his position on reconciliation (learning from the first call). He still has NO position on reconciliation and I was told if he does make a position, he will post that position on his website. I then proceeded to give them my opinions, that HCR is important and to get it done now and wait to fix some of the small issues after the fact!
This is coming from Southwestern Virginia, a lot more conservative than the rest of Virginia, hopefully the people of SW VA will figure out that HCR is a good thing instead of villianizing it without understanding how much it is going to help them!
Drew
General Egal Tarian Stuck
@Nick: That’s terrific. Never doubted he wouldn’t come thru. Great Senator to have, as is Bingaman.
snarkout
there is nothing in the bill that prevents the insurance companies from dropping their coverage as soon as they need expensive treatment
This simply isn’t true; the bill ends rescission.
Dr. Squid
Smaller Government!
Well, except for you ladies. You need the help from us wonderful men in suits. And magic underpants,
gypsy howell
Called Specter and Casey. Thanked Specter for signing onto the letter, and let them know that I didn’t care WHAT Obama did or didn’t include in the White House compromise (I know Obama doesn’t want a public option) — I asked that Specter continue supporting the public option thru reconciliation. Gave them lots of specifics with how much I’m paying in insurance premiums and that it just went up 22% this year, in case he thinks huge rate increases are just a problem in CA.
Said same thing to Casey’s office – they said he “was waiting to see what Obama does” (typical wishy washy response from a wishy washy guy). Gave them the same spiel – how am I supposed to put up a fight against a huge for-profit insurance company? Told the staffer to think about how much money I could be putting into my local PA economy if I weren’t paying $18k a year in insurance premiums. How’s THAT for a stimulus program?
But sadly, though I made the calls because what the hell else am I gonna do, I felt like Charlie Brown running towards that football.
I hate being made a fool of, and that’s what these douchebags, who will NEVER have to worry about THEIR health care, do to me very time. I hate them for it.
JanglerNPL
@NR: And what about the subsidies they will receive in the bill? They’re being forced to buy insurance, and *given money to help them do so*. Why do public-option-or-nothingers always leave this fact out? To borrow a phrase, it’s either because they’re being misled or because they’re misleading. And if it’s the former, I think it’s no secret who’s pulling the wool over their eyes. *cough Jane Hamsher cough*
Mike Kay
@NR:
That’s NOT what Krugman says. According to the distinguished Nobel laureate, the PO is NOT essential to reform.
Mike Kay
@JanglerNPL:
Hamsher is a republican plant. There is more than ample evidence, sold evidence, actually, that she’s bought and paid for by the insurance industry.
General Egal Tarian Stuck
And here is a puzzler hypothetical for those ragging on Rockefeller over his statement. This is one of the true champions of HCR, and especially a PO. And yes, he was a dork when Chairing the Senate Intelligence Committee, but this is a totally different issue.
Do you really think if a PO was offered as a simple majority vote during a recon. process, he would vote no on it? Think about it..
Dr. Morpheus
@MikeJ:
And I want Heather Graham, but unfortunately I think both of us are going to be disappointed.
At least in the near term.
Hope springs eternal
forin the human breast.Bobzim
I’m late to this thread and someone might’ve pointed it already, but J-Rock’s position is about deference to the wishes of the senior senator from WV, Robert Byrd.
Byrd would never go for the reconciliation route for this and Rockefeller doesn’t see enough chance of it happening to buck him.
Will
@Mike Kay:
This is what Glenn would have us believe:
Jay Rockefeller couldn’t possibly think, hey, maybe it’s just not the best timing, after our majority has been slimmed down even further since the Massachusetts Massacre, to gin up the failed public option yet again just as we are on the verge of passing health care after Thursday’s summit without one. No no, it’s got to be that Rockefeller was fooling everyone all along on his support for the p.o., and not just that–he was coordinating his trickery with all 58 of the other Dems! Brilliant!
Bart Stupak isn’t just rigidly pro-life and willing to piss all over his House caucus over that issue–no no, he’s secretly coordinating his opposition with Nancy Pelosi! Who pretends to be rigidly pro-choice, so no one would ever suspect such cooperation! Brilliant!
Were Rockefeller and even conservative Dems like Nelson, Bayh or Landrieu to suddenly come around on the P.O., why, it’s obvious that staunch liberal Al Franken would suddenly decide the P.O. just wasn’t attainable. It’s not as if the man has any convictions of his own, see. He’s just PLAYING THE PART, willing to be the Good Liberal as long as there are the Bad Conservatives to balance him out. It’s certainly why he decided to leave a multi-million dollar career as a writer and entertainer for the confines of the Senate. Not because he wanted to actually get something good done for the American People. It was so he could join in this secret fraternity of screwing over Democrats. I mean, who wouldn’t want to come to Washington to do that?
It makes no fucking sense whatsoever. But it keeps his readers happy and angry, the way he likes them. And it’s a lot easier (lazier) than actually truthfully examining the byzantine factions of the Senate that are holding healthcare hostage.
Barry
Sentient Puddle
“Feingold is apparently more of a process hawk than some people think.”
Unless Feingold was running about 1,000 fillibusters during the Bush II administration, that’s simply not true.
4tehlulz
@Will: “It makes no fucking sense whatsoever.”
But that’s what the Democrats WANT you to think.
11-d chess, people.
Barry
“And it’s a lot easier (lazier) than actually truthfully examining the byzantine factions of the Senate that are holding healthcare hostage.”
The problem is that these god-d*mned ‘byzantine factions of the Senate’ seem to be more in evidence when it’s time for Democratic senatorial scum to actually get things done. When Bush and Cheney were riding high, we didn’t hear jack sh*t. When Bush and Cheney were riding low, and were lame ducks, and the only question was how much more damage they’d inflict before crawling out of office, they were still not in evidence.
But let the Democrats take actual f*cking charge of government for the first time in 25 years, and suddenly every lying god-d*mned taking-money-from-the-right Democratic senatorial baron is puffing himself up like he’s had a pair all along, demanding his ancient and traditional rights of this, that and the other thing.
It’s to the point where they are deliberately recreating 1994, and they still continue on that course.
It really comes down to bribery; these guys are bought and paid for.
Will
@4tehlulz:
You’re right. They’ve got me. I feel like I’m at the end of Invasion of the Body Snatchers or something.
Will
@Barry:
I couldn’t agree more.
Barry
Daddy-O
“Will, the only explanation I can think of is this: Rockefeller is afraid of Big Pharma. He’s afraid that the gravy train will cease, and he’s afraid that they will get him un-elected.
(snip)
So…the mystery remains. Maybe Big Pharma is actually evil enough to start ASSASSINATING politicos? It’s just possible.”
When the day comes that they can’t buy a supermajority, then and only then will they worry about other methods.
In our system, why would a monied interest ever be even slightly tempted by assassination? Bribery works at least as well, and seems to be totaly legal.
sparky
normally i just stay out of threads like this one on the ground that if y’all want to waste your time that’s your business. but enough is enough with the attacks on Greenwald.
none of the attacks on Greenwald here address his argument. instead we get straw men, “tinfoil” and suchlike condescension.
maybe somebody might want to actually consider his argument. unless, of course, that would contradict the narrative here that somehow, magically, some phone calls from peasants are going to trump the 1.5 million dollars a day pumped into this issue by professionals. and that cute Frank Capra narrative going here has to be correct, right? after all, Obama and the Ds really have made significant changes since they’ve acquired power.
right? right?
Mike Kay
@Will:
if he was at GOS, he would be banned for all his conspiracy theories.
Sentient Puddle
@Barry:
I honestly have no idea what this is supposed to mean.
eemom
No, actually it’s a MUCH better use of we peasants’ time to join you in paying homage to the genius that is Glenn Greenwald.
Will
@sparky:
I don’t think anyone here doesn’t agree that a great deal of the Congressional Democrats are bought-off cowards.
What I refute is Greenwald’s ridiculous premise that progressive and conservative Dems actively conspire to see-saw support, so that when one of them decides to endorse progressive legislation, they only do it having confirmed that another member is going to withdraw support at the same time. That’s paranoid, delusional, and stupid.
Desert Diva
Toll free number for Senate House White House
1 800- 833-6354
sparky
@eemom: as a fellow peasant, i don’t have any interest in paying homage to mister greenwald. i just got annoyed with the crap flung from here at him because he had the temerity say he thinks the Ds are full of it. nothing wrong with disagreeing with him–not at all. but as your post aptly demonstrates, no one here refutes anything he says.
@Will: well, here i think we have an interpretive difference. i don’t think he was positing your take. my take on it was much more low key–that there is a difference between public and private positions. and if you read the link to the E. Klein (who DOES, incidentally, seem to be held up here as some kind fo god) piece, Klein says exactly the same thing. hell, even our esteemed host, in a post subsequent to this one, says the same thing.
to simplify: Greenwald is NOT alleging a vast conspiracy. what he is alleging is that Senators are lying to you. if you want to call that a fantasy, i respectfully disagree. just because someone doesn’t have an (R) after his or her name doesn’t mean they are incapable of deceit.
note: i think that Greenwald can be too oblique at times for people. that, coupled with a sometimes infelicitous style, can make for misreadings. it’s happened before, and that’s what i think is going on with this piece. but, of course, that’s just my opinion.
edit: if anyone here has a better explanation for why the WH is now saying–beforehand–that there should not be a vote(!) on a public option–please enlighten me/us. it is becoming increasingly apparent that the WH does NOT want a public option. why is a matter of speculation, but it’s pretty apparent they are determined to sink it.
Will
@sparky:
I don’t know, sparky. This section sounded like a pretty vast conspiracy to me:
If that doesn’t sound like Greenwald desribing a grandly drawn system of collusion among congressional Democrats, I don’t know what would.
Because many of the “centrist” Senators crucial to getting anything passed are such gigantic egomaniacs, the White House is afraid it would lose their vote permanently on any health care bill if they first pushed for a public option without them and failed. See Olympia Snowe.
General Egal Tarian Stuck
@sparky:
You morons were saying a week ago that Obama wants to shelve HCR, that he didn’t want the senate to use reconc. process. And before that a whole litany of other issues when reading at face value every utterance coming from the WH that the sky is falling and Obama doesn’t care, or is really a corporatist wingnut and other assorted hysterical horseshit accusations./
Only to be proven wrong time and again when all the chips come out. You are professional whiners by and large and I have no more patience nor time for your destructive self absorbed non sense. And none more personify this sentiment than whack job Glenn Greenwald, who has turned out to be a dishonest outrage manufacturer that has gone over the deep end into Lone Gunmen territory. And in this current article, does what he always does, misquote, or leave out elements of what was said by Rockefeller to start his poutrage engine. Stop it . Just stop it.
WVBlueGuy
I just talked to Senator Rockefeller’s office a few minutes ago. This was his Charleston, WV office as I could not get through to the Washington or Beckley, WV offices.
Evidently a statement will be released this afternoon regarding reconciliation. Since the statement had not been released I was not able to ascertain where he stands. I was told to call back tomorrow by the receptionist, and she would read the statement to me.
We shall see what happens. Hopefully he will be supportive.
NR
@JanglerNPL: Problem is, even with the subsidies, lots of people will still be paying 8% of their income a year. Unless you get sick, in which case you pay $10k/year plus 8% of your income. And believe me, there are lots of families out there who can’t afford that.
Anyone who refuses to admit that is either misled or misleading, to borrow a phrase.
sparky
@Will: well, we will just have to agree to disagree. i just don’t think Senators saying one thing in public and something else in private is a conspiracy. in his headline he calls it a scam, and i think that’s a reasonable characterization. Rs do it all the time, and nobody calls it a conspiracy.
as for your other point, sorry, not buying. why on earth announce beforehand that you are not even going to try, unless you don’t really want to pass it? seriously, would anyone in their right mind say this? what’s the point? that way you aren’t even giving it up as a bargaining chip, or talking point, or tool to move the phonebankers. think about the argument you are making here: we can’t propose something because the mere fact of proposing it will make people run away. that’s an argument? come on.
Will
@sparky:
That might sometimes be the case, but that isn’t what Greenwald wrote. To repeat:
“The primary tactic in this game is Villain Rotation.”
That is a pure depiction of a conspiracy.
“They always have a handful of Democratic Senators announce that they will be the ones to deviate this time from the ostensible party position and impede success, but the designated Villain constantly shifts, so the Party itself can claim it supports these measures while an always-changing handful of their members invariably prevent it.”
Again, by use of the phrase “designated Villain”, Greenwald is specifically describing a conspiracy. I don’t know how you cannot read that from that statement.
Of course they do. You do read this blog from time to time, right?
I am not making an argument. I am describing a reality, one that already has occurred, with Sen. Snowe. I agree with the sentiment that it is a crazy situation, but I am not advancing a crazy or weak argument. I am just describing what the White House already went through, and what they are now trying to avoid on the second run.
Wabi-Sabi
I just left a message for Rockefeller. Having heard him speak in person at a health care rally at our State Capitol last week, this week’s developments are very disappointing.
No Joy in Mudville
It’s time to require all Senate votes to be unanimous (with all 100 senators present and voting). Perhaps then Senator Rockefeller would be satisfied with the level of bi-partisanship.
I’m sure those of his constituents who would be helped by a public option are all deeply concerned that their lives would be tainted if the only way they were able to acquire health insurance was by a majority vote of the Senate. What could be more illegitimate?
General Egali Tarian Stuck
@No Joy in Mudville:
Maybe you should move.
bob h
My guess is that Webb is out. Not afraid of the Viet Cong in the 60’s, but afraid of Teabuggers now.
The old assholes like Lieberman and Nelson are now passe, but you can be sure new assholes will come out of the woodwork to guarantee only 51 votes will be achieved.