Not necessarily a bad sign. Hopefully these fledgling efforts to rescue HCR will not get trumped by Charlie Brown taking another run at the bipartisan football tonight.
The Mind Is Willing But The
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soonergrunt
Perhaps an excerpt of the article, please? The Plumline is blocked at my workplace.
kthxbai!
Very Reverend Crimson Fire of Compassion
Because Senating is haaaaaaaaard!
dr. bloor
Dream on. There is no higher calling than bipartisanship for The Dali Obama.
robertdsc
Just keep working.
Tractarian
They have to realize that part of the reason they are in this “grueling procedural thicket” is precisely because they have taken too damn long with every painstaking step throughout this entire process.
But Tim is right, this is a good sign. At least the Senate Dem caucus seems to be trying to come up with solutions rather than excuses.
Begich, Pryor, McCaskill, Lieberman, Johnson, Conrad, Bill Nelson, Hagan, Warner, Webb. Those are the senators between the proverbial 45 yard lines that need to get on board for this to work.
Notorious P.A.T.
It’s failed the last 280,976 tries, but that just means we’re due!
Tim F.
@Tractarian:
Yep. That is exactly what encourages me.
Cassidy
fixed
Chuck
Armchair? These guys are the only ones not afraid to take the fucking field. They’re doing the job you won’t. The truth hurts, so grow a thicker skin.
Tractarian
The more I think about it, the more I realize that so much is riding on the SOTU. If Obama puts his full weight behind the Senate-bill-plus-reconciliation-fix solution — and if he calls out the GOP obstructionism in clear terms — it could provide the impetus to finally get this over the finish line to move to other priorities (which I’m sure the caucus is dying to do).
I realize that’s a big “if”, but you never know.
cat48
Breaking News on MSNBC at 4p.m. states that Speaker Pelosi has stated she now has enough votes to pass the Senate bill in the House. Hmm.
Zifnab
@Tractarian:
Welcome to the Senate. Have a seat. This will take a while.
David in NY
I think calling Reps actually made them sit up and take notice. When I called a few days ago, the office of my totally liberal but confused Rep didn’t seem to have a clue. My wife called today and they were keeping a tally of the positions people were taking and seemed, at least, to realize the nature of the possibilities.
Let’s badger us some Senators!!
me
Hey “senior Senate aides”, you’re about to fuck it up! Quit whining and do your fucking jobs or you’re going to lose them!
mr. whipple
OMG, that’s fucking awesome. I was running out of hopitude.
David in NY
@Tractarian:
Oh how I wish that I was consoled by this. :(
beltane
@cat48: You mean they noticed our phone calls? We must make a point to do this more often.
soonergrunt
It is precisely the fault of Senate Dems and their staffers. They are why we are where we are. Has anyone pointed out to them that they’re a bunch of candy-assed Heathers who need a good boot to the teeth more than anything else, or should we wait until after we get some kind of half-assed reform passed?
And you can add the office of the President’s Chief of Staff to that list as well. A little bit of leadership on this issue a while back–just a small amount, and we’d be posting our fantasies of what we’d be able to do in 2011 with 65%-70% majorities in both houses instead of whip-counting now to get some half-assed crap done and wondering how hard it will be to fix it if the fucking thing passes in the first place!
MikeJ
It’s the fault of Ben Nelson and Holy Joe, but I don’t know what the others are supposed to do about that.
Tim F.
It’s god’s fault. As soon as offices close in the Senate I’m going to yell at my rabbi…
Emo Pantload (fka Studly)
Wow, I just got my teeth marks on my finger courtesy of a liberal friend who is so livid at Obama that polite discourse seems to have been, to cop a phrase, rendered quaint. I mean, sweet baby Jesus on an ass, I’d register as a Soshulist if it were a viable party in this country, I consider Bernie Freakin’ Sanders my “honorary” Senator, and suddenly I’m in the ranks of the moderates?!?
Anyhoo, channeled my angst by calling my House and Senate reps’ DC offices to sound off on health care. Didn’t “demand” anything or threaten to take my vote elsewhere. Just said to the staffers that I’d have their bosses’ backs if they’d just please keep working with members of their respective chambers and keep this thing alive and moving forward.
Good time to keep your head down and your fingers in your pockets if you’re not one of either of the ‘baggers, these days.
Tom Hilton
@soonergrunt:
Sure, but so what? However we got here, we’re at a point where the only way healthcare reform happens is if the House passes the Senate bill–period. (And the thing about amending a bill that hasn’t yet passed both houses does seem to be kind of a sticking point.) So the bottom line is this: any so-called ‘progressive*’ Representative who isn’t willing to vote for the Senate bill without amendment is a sociopathic douchebag.
*I actually have more respect for the Representatives who are going to vote against it because they don’t give a shit about HCR than for those who claim to care but are inclined to vote against it because it isn’t ‘enough’.
KCinDC
@cat48, the key clause is “if certain changes to the legislation are made through the reconciliation process.” It all depends on exactly what those changes are and whether there are 50 votes in the Senate to pass those changes through reconciliation.
soonergrunt
@Tom Hilton: I agree with you 100%. It’s the whining in the Senate that pisses me off. It’s like the kid who kills his parents and then requests mercy from the court because he’s an orphan.
Cain
@beltane:
“We are the ones that we are waiting for. We are the change we seek.” Yes we can. :-)
cain
Joshua Norton
Sure, try being a hopeless bipartisan (buy-partisan) one more time. At this point wingnuts would filibuster a bill to rename Washington DC as Reagan City.
Sentient Puddle
@soonergrunt:
See: three posts down.
Chad N Freude
@Notorious P.A.T.: Probability theory proves it!
Linkmeister
@Joshua Norton: If they did that, it would fail 99-0!
Michael
OT – Bachmann and Blackburn reconsidering their commitment to attend the teabaggot convention.
http://www.minnpost.com/derekwallbank/2010/01/27/15378/bachmann_may_skip_national_tea_party_convention
cleek
Senators are ostensibly adults, yes ? then why do they need to be told what to do ? and, if they are not adults, why do we expect they’ll do as Obama says ?
Corner Stone
@beltane:
I haven’t seen it mentioned anywhere but I’m wondering something. What if everyone who called their Rep during this crisis actually kept calling them? Not to chastise but to “check in” so to speak. Once a month (or maybe twcie or whatever) just call in, ask to speak to the same legislative aide (or lower level phone answerer or whoever you eventually get a hold of) and just let them know you’re paying attention and want the Rep to know you’re rooting for them (or whatever chummy message or not so chummy message is appropriate – whatever).
The point being – when a real crisis comes through like HCR, or education bills, etc a big handful of people will have a recognized pipeline into their Reps’ office.
“Hey Timmy it’s Bill Johnson, how are you today? Yeah that’s great. Listen, about this whole education bill HR666 coming up for a vote…how is Rep. Tightshorts going to vote on it? Yeah, I know it’s tough. Remember my grandson we talked about? Yeah. He’s a perfect example of who could be helped, who could have his whole life changed by this.”
Anyway, why let this drop and be a one-and-done?
Chuck Butcher
Meanwhile you’ve got Bishops up to this.
General Winfield Stuck
Yes, because the 4 Horseman of the wingnut apocalyspe from failure is nipping at their heels. Senators like power, it’s why they got themselves elected in the first place. They like being the majority and holding gavels and subpoena power, That is bipartisan. I love the senate like a lover loves an unfaithful love. The institution is a marvel of perpetually balanced chaos that keeps the whole union glued together, and I know many here on the left don’t agree, at least with dems in the majority, and I do understand why.
It is like nursing a wound that will never quite heal completely. But I also do love seeing the regal fuckers squirm and get pressed against their own wall of preening egoism. That is also part of the founders plan, from time to time. Like now.
Chad N Freude
@Tom Hilton: I rather like the idea of amendment first, bill afterwards. So Lewis Carroll.
Tsulagi
@Cassidy: I’d go with that assessment.
From Tim’s link…
__
And CBO has what vote on the issue? That part is bullshit.
As far as the parliamentarian, could use the Trent Lott solution. The current parliamentarian knows it well as…
__
Over/under on Harry doing something like that?
kay
@cleek:
It does explain why Kerry, Obama, Clinton and McCain all tried desperately to get the hell out of there, though.
Midnight Marauder
@Corner Stone:
You know, this might be the most sensible thing you’ve said in
daysweeksmonthsforever?ChrisB
@Zifnab: Welcome to the Senate. Take a number — like the number at the end of BeetleJuice, if anyone remembers that movie.
kay
@General Winfield Stuck:
But don’t you think the obstructionist Dem Senators and Leiberman have hurt themselves, politically, and even in a historical sense, if we want get all grand?
How’d you like to be remembered for the “Cornhusker Kickback”?
soonergrunt
@Sentient Puddle:
This is why I do not ever give money to the DCCC, DSCC, or to the Democratic Party. I give to specific candidates. So yeah, to some extent, it is worth knowing who’s working in a manner of which I approve and who isn’t.
I don’t expect success all of the time. That isn’t realistic, but I do expect people to try all of the time if they want my money.
That’s how I do my job so as not to get fired.
That’s how I served as a Soldier and that’s why I brought all my boys and our toys home from Iraq twice and Afghanistan once. If I expect that from my poorly paid, poorly equipped, and occasionally under-educated Soldiers, I think I’m on firm moral ground expecting the same from the President of the US, the US Senate, and their respective staffs.
ellaesther
Well, and your headline made me laugh out loud. So there is that.
darryl
I looked all around MSNBC and couldn’t find that. Do you have a link?
Angry Space Cadet
Slightly off topic but is tonight’s episode of Lost the one where Obama gives a speech and the Democrats all clap in unison, while the Republicans act constipated or is that next week’s episode?
Tomlinson
I have a hard time picturing any senator other than John Kerry when I visualize that.
Yossarian
@Tsulagi:
“And CBO has what vote on the issue? That part is bullshit.”
In fairness, I actually think the aide has a point there. If the CBO doesn’t score a provision as affecting revenue in some way, it’s not eligible for reconciliation. The CBO’s stamp on a provision saying that it impacts revenue is like evidence for the Senate to say to the parliamentarian, “hey, look, this does so qualify for a budget vote!”
Captain Goto
@soonergrunt: makes sense to me. Why does it seem like so few people–let alone the congresscritters–subscribe to this quaint notion?
Tractarian
@cleek:
Wow, a couple of good questions there. First, I think they need to be told what to do because the concept of “representative democracy” is just completely lost on them. We hired them to make tough decisions on our behalf, not to tally up constituent calls and vote on whichever side comes out on top. Still, we go to war with the Senate we have, not the Senate we wish to have. So let’s tell them what to do.
Second, these people, by and large, are selfish. They are motivated only by self-interest. Before they vote, they must know: What’s in it for me? Will this help me get reelected? The idea here is that if Obama can do some old-fashioned persuading, that will make it more politically risky to vote against HCR than it is to vote for it.
Many people, myself included, supported Obama against Hillary in 2008 because we saw the potential that he could be a persuasive leader, not just a Clintonesque triangulator trying to seek out the middle ground. The proof will be in the pudding tonight, I reckon.
Linkmeister
@darryl: It’s from USA Today.
Tomlinson
I’m hoping that tonight’s episode of Lost (The Washington Years) is the one where the dem castaways finally realize that the others are out to get them and that they had better Live Together Or Die Alone.
With the dem base acting as the smoke monster.
Zifnab
@ChrisB: Haha! Ah, yes. I was a big fan of the spin-off cartoon.
General Winfield Stuck
@kay: I don’t think Lieberman cares, nor intends to run for reelection, at least as a dem. He’s a sick vindictive fuck imo,
Nelson may well have hurt himself with the medicaid special treatment in a state that has a high degree of western style proud libertarian mixed in with it’s wingnuttery. And his obstructionist antics will not buy favor with the states smaller liberal population he depends on to get enough votes to get elected.
But Lieberman is the villain here, in several ways, lying cheating and breaking his promise to Reid on the compromise. In my very first lengthy post on the HC debate back in the summer, I noted he was the wildcard in it all.
And I don’t think Lincoln, Bayh, and even Nelson would have threatened to join the winger filibuster of a PO without HolyJoe providing cover.
Thanks a lot Conn.
kay
@General Winfield Stuck:
I heard the “health care expert” on NPR (I rarely listen, so don’t know her name) say that special state deals for Medicaid reimbursement have been passing for years, introduced by Republicans and Democrats.
I haven’t been able to find it, but that’s what she said.
So, he just got caught :)
He’s probably feeling sorry for himself. “Everyone does it!”
Moron. Not when the whole country is looking!
darryl
That would be useful if the Dems had real killer instincts.
HR 124: Bill prohibiting the kicking of puppies and kitties.
HR 125: Bill praising “America’s Hard Working Mothers”
HR 126: Bill denouncing date rape….
robertdsc
That’s one benefit of this here internet age. People are on top of this 24/7/365. Nothing escapes the intertrons eye.
Tomlinson
Watch it, can’t piss off the republican majority…
Omnes Omnibus
@darryl:
To be fair, the current crop of Repubs might oppose that one on its merits.
Tsulagi
@Yossarian:
Nope, a reconciliation could address solely the excise tax. Wouldn’t need a scoring from CBO that a tax affects revenue in some way. Pretty sure the parliamentarian could understand that all on his own.
Plus, CBO has already scored the current Senate bill with its excise tax and subsidy provisions and their effect on revenue and expenditure. A reconciliation bill, or at least those contemplated currently, would only tweak the numbers.
Chad N Freude
@darryl: The Republicans would be able to make persuasive cases to their constituency:
Stop PETA from taking away Human rights.
Mothers should stay at home taking care of their children and not work.
The government has no right to intervene in preparations for marriage between one man and one woman.
Bill Arnold
Darryl,
(As Linkmeister says, usa today.)
Also often helpful is news.google.com, and in this case search for “pelosi” sorted by both relevance and date (sort links are on the lower left).
kay
@robertdsc:
My father is old and he tells me government, particularly local and state, is vastly more transparent than it used to be, and he’s not talking about the internet. He only uses the internet when he’s standing behind me reading over my shoulder.
He tells me it started post-Nixon, and I know sunshine laws in my state are wildly popular. We can have knock down drag out fights here with all kinds of wild allegations if the school board goes into “executive session”, and dodges the rabble.
I have come to realize he’s probably right. Thinking about that slow evolution made me slightly optimistic for about a week.
Corner Stone
@Midnight Marauder:
Coming from a deluded O-bot this means less than nothing. I was hoping for someone more sensible than you to approve of my suggestion.
Anyone seen BoB?
Michael
Another OT – Looks like Ted Haggard has given up on meth and sweaty man ass.
Tractarian
@Tsulagi:
True, but House dems want a lot more than just an excise tax tweak in the reconciliation bill. Ergo, the CBO has to weigh in.
ruemara
@Corner Stone:
I am up for this. I’m making post cards with all the points on key legislature I want, so I can keep sending them over and over. Plus, I plan on reminding @joelieberman on twitter how pathetic I think he is.
Dr. Morpheus
@Corner Stone:
THIS
kay
Stop using “reconciliation”.
Pelosi has adopted a new and better term for anything requiring 51 votes which is “majority rule”.
That was easy. She should be running everything.
Midnight Marauder
@Corner Stone:
And they said it wouldn’t be all fun and games inside of The Big Tent.
WHO IS THE FOOL NOW, THEY?!
Edit: And I guess it’s time for seppuku now since you finding yourself agreeing with an O-Bot, right?
Chad N Freude
@darryl: USA Today reports the MSNBC report.
geg6
@Corner Stone:
This.
I said I plan to do this exact thing (more to torture my Blue Dog, but…hey…if it keeps him aware I’m watching?).
I think is exactly the problem. The wingnuts and teabaggers and their ilk have always done this. We lefties and left of centers have not. We just got our first taste of what can happen when we do. If we haven’t learned anything from this, we can’t blame Congress the next time a similar thing happens. Because it will be our fault. If we let the loudest voices always be those of the crazies, how can we expect them to know that WE AREN’T DOWN WITH THE CRAZY ONES?
We can’t. So we have to keep it up. Next up? Financial regulation!!!
David in NY
@Tractarian:
No! A thousand times, no! “The proof [of the pudding] will be in the [eating] tonight, I reckon.” Corrected. /usage police
BTD
Tim F.
Pretty big development – BEN Nelson supports reconciliation. fix.
Of course he won’t support a public option or anything like that but his arguments basically undercut Bayh and Lincoln and give Landrieu cover.
He said the following:
gwangung
Oh, baby, I am all for this.
(Am I punching a hippie if I say I am all over this like white on rice?)(and I don’t mean Asiaphiles with that…)
Chad N Freude
@David in NY: Thank Deity Of Your Choice, I’m not the only one. Pedants of the world, UNITE!
BR
I made five calls today saying pass the damn bill to all the offices of folks who represent me.
Dr. Morpheus
@geg6:
I agree, I plan to hit hard with phone, fax, and letters for meaningful financial re-regulation with my slimy Republican Rep Timmeh “Meth-Head” Johnson and Senators Durbin & Burris*.
Then we tackle Carbon Tax/Cap and Trade.
Followed by some hard crotch punching on immigration reform…
You get the drift.
DO NOT LET THEM SLACK!
*BTW, despite Burris’ ethical problems I do have to commend him on his responsiveness to my calls and letters as well as his commitment to the Democratic platform.
Maybe he isn’t such a bad Senator after all…
Tsulagi
@Tractarian:
Don’t know what the “more” is, but if they come from the provisions in their House HCR bill they’ve already been scored by CBO.
Anyway, CYA will be the order of the day in Congress.
change we can believe in my ass
I am tired of these fuckers in Congress. They’re Democrats! But they can’t agree on shit, they can’t work together to get things done!
The problem (for us) is, the Democrats don’t want to be in power – it puts them in an awkward position. They have to do — and want to do — what they’ve been bribed to do by the interests who’ve bought them.
But they have to pretend that they’re working on behalf of their base, which everyone can see is a joke….
I hate them all.
geg6
@BTD:
Holy shit. Ben just kneecapped the WATB Senate faction there, didn’t he?
I don’t know why, but I have a feeling we’re gonna see a buncha Dem senators lining right up after a stem winder of a SOTU tonight. We all know I’m no optimist and perhaps I’m crazy. But this really gives me hope.
Corner Stone
@Midnight Marauder:
You’re a wily one, no one will argue that.
But unlike some I am able to judge something on its own merits. I don’t blindly accept things because I am told to, and I don’t blandly reject things because someone I am arguing against supports it.
You might want to give that a try sometime. I know it’s hard work but it’ll probably work out better for you in the long run.
/Able to make my own decisions – awayyyyyyyyyy!!
kay
@BR:
Senator Voinovich supports “common sense” health care reform.
To be enacted sometime in the indeterminate future, after he retires, and becomes a college president.
Well, I said that last part for him.
Zuzu's Petals
Well, not knowing the exact rules for federal legislation …
If they passed the sidecar bill immediately before the Senate bill, and the President opted to sign the Senate bill first, it could be that the sidecar bill would be deemed to have taken effect after the Senate bill and thus amending existing law.
geg6
@Dr. Morpheus:
This is how we’ll get it all done. If we are consistent and stand strong.
Funny how Burris may actually be a halfway decent senator. I’ve had the same experience with my new Dem senator, Specter. He has been very good on substance and has been most consistent on answering my queries and doing it with good information and in a timely fashion.
Of course, he’s probably gonna lose his seat. I know I’ll probably vote for Sestak over him in the primary. But if he makes it through the primary, batshit insane Pat Toomey will probably beat him in the general. Don’t ask me why Toomey will beat him. He just will.
Midnight Marauder
@Corner Stone:
I don’t either. I’m glad we can agree on that.
Clever. But everyone knows those aren’t the magic words to empower human flight. Now if you’ll excuse me, there’s a seat reserved for me in the Peanut Gallery for tonight’s State of the Union.
/O-BOT…AWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYY!
Phoebe
I have high hopes for this SOTU. High apple pie in the sky hopes.
Nick
@BTD: I don’t trust Ben Nelson. I think he’s aiming to be the 50th vote, so he can insert his poison pills into the reconciliation fix.
Zuzu's Petals
@Tsulagi:
If the CBO is telling you a procedure will not withstand parliamentary or legal challenge, it’s best to listen. They know what they’re talking about.
Violet
@Corner Stone:
This! I’ve had tons of fun calling my Reps over the last week. Feel like I’m doing something. Especially seeing as how it may – may – be having some results.
Maybe we should organize a Balloon Juice phone bank or something? We are the ones we have been waiting for! Oh crap. I’m going to go all hope ‘n changey now. Gotta watch that.
bemused
I’ve called Klobuchar, Franken, Oberstar, Ellison & Reid in the last couple of days. None of the staff I talked to gave me any hint where their bosses were going on HCR.
I said to all staff that every Dem voter I know, from most to least informed, is very discouraged at the thought that Dems would “take a break” from HCR. They want to see the Dems fighting for them.
My 90 yr old father-in-law, lifelong Dem voter, who experienced the Great Depression & saw firsthand how FDR’s policies worked (Civilian Conservations Corps) has been getting increasingly frustrated. After the SC ‘corps are people too’ decision he said this country is going to hell in a handbasket.
Nick
Um, I love Senator Kirsten Gillibrand;
HF, of course, being Harold Ford.
Chad N Freude
@geg6: We are all aware that Nelson is a Mayberry Machiavelli, right?
Chad N Freude
@Nick: Dead right. I didn’t see your comment till after I posted @Chad N Freude:
General Winfield Stuck
Just finished day of calling my CC’rs offices, and though no firm commitments, the general tone was much more upbeat, at least with efforts to work this thing out between the house and senate. Progress , i reckon.
Zuzu's Petals
I’ve called Feinstein’s and Matsui’s offices, DC and local. While they took messages (or sent me to VM), no one seemed especially knowledgeable.
Also called Reid’s DC office. Couldn’t even get through, not even to VM. Gave up after three tries and called his Las Vegas office. The staffer who answered took my message, and when I asked her to explain Reid’s position – or even what it was – she was clueless. “I’ll forward this message to the Senator and he can send you a letter.”
Tonal Crow
@Tom Hilton:
There’s no Constitutional problem with such a package of amendments. All they’ve got to do is to make the amendments conditional upon passage of the underlying legislation. Congress not infrequently makes a bill effective only upon the occurrence of some non-legislative event, and courts have never, to my knowledge, voided such legislation because of its trigger mechanism. Usually such legislation conditions some penalty or benefit upon “certification” by the President. For example, the Senate ratified a treaty allowing Poland, Hungary, and the Czech Republic into NATO, but made its delivery — and thus effectiveness — conditional upon the President certifying, among other things, that the new NATO states were cooperating in the search for missing U.S. military personnel. Treaty 105-36, s.3(5), ratified 4/30/1998. http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=105&session=2&vote=00117 . (Get the text by querying http://thomas.loc.gov/home/treaties/treaties.htm ).
Given this, and the long history of conditional legislation (see, e.g., http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=case&court=us&vol=11&page=382 ), it doesn’t seem that there’s any insurmountable parliamentary obstacle, either.
BTD
@Nick:
I agree with geg6’s take at 79. the underpuinnings of Lincoln and Bayh’s “procedural” objections are completely undermined. If Nelson wants to negotiate – well who needs his vote really? They needed a bloc.
In addition, Nelson will have to be against fixing the Nebraska bit, which is not easy for him.
I think it is a big deal. Not for his vote, but for what that does to the ConservaDem “principled” opposition to reconciliation.
liberty60
@Chad N Freude:
Sean Hannity called. Wants his schtick back.
Tim F.
@BTD: Oh shit. That is great news.
robertdsc
She’s a firecracker. I know some folks I read don’t like her but she’s OK in my book.
Chad N Freude
@Tim F.: Curb your enthusiasm. See “[O]nce it went to conference, as part of the conference, there was still another 60 vote threshold, and that is when I would have insisted… for my last 60th vote, it has to have [Stupak-like language],” Nelson said.
liberty60
@change we can believe in my ass:
We don’t have to love them, we only have to whip them hard and beat them into submission to do our will.
Maybe thats the problem- we have been thinking of them as our overlords instead of our employees.
change we can believe in my ass
@liberty60:
I have voted for them. I have supported Democratic causes and candidates for decades.
I shouldn’t have to “…whip them hard and beat them into submission….”
We have acted in good faith, they are betraying us.
Zuzu's Petals
@Tonal Crow:
I suspect it’s not so much a problem of conditioning implementation on passage of another bill, it’s which one takes effect first.
You can condition implementation of your bill on the passage of another, but unless it takes effect after the first bill you are still amending law that does not exist. If federal law mirrors California law, it is the bill with the later effective date that prevails.
If congressional rules permit the Clerk of the House or the Secretary of the Senate to hold an enrolled bill back before being presented to the President for signing, it is possible the Senate bill could be signed and take effect first even if the amending bill passed the houses first. Or the amending bill could simply specify an effective date that is some time later than the date of signing, to ensure it takes effect after the Senate bill…I believe federal law allows this.
Nick
@change we can believe in my ass: yeah, it doesn’t work like that. You don’t get to pull a lever and disappear for two to four years. People need to be constantly involved, especially in our country, because politicians will respond to what they see is the public response from their actions and attempts and if they don’t see support for left-wing policies, they will assume you don’t care.
A civil society does not survive by only voting and then forgetting about it.
change we can believe in, my ass
@Nick:
I did more than vote.