Chuck is on in five mins.
And should anything happen to me in surgery tomorrow, I fully expect half of you to blame Rahm and the other half to blame the Jane Hamshers of the left. Why shouldn’t my untimely demise turn into another stupid damned circular firing squad?
Also, according to the twitterati, Obama is foolishly proposing a three year freeze on non-security discretionary spending. I think I’m getting off easy by missing the freakout this will cause. I’m only getting cut into with sharp knives. Krugman and Atrios are going to EXPLODE.
Notorious P.A.T.
Good luck with your operation John.
DaBomb
I hope the shoulder feels better!
Athenae
Don’t rush your comeback, man.
Seriously, good thoughts heading your way.
A.
demkat620
Who gets custody of Tunch and Lily?
dmsilev
Now taking bets on when John’s next post will be. I’ll take ’30 minutes’ in the pool.
-dms
MMM
It’s time I sling the baskets off this overburdened horse
Sink my toes into the ground and set a different course
Cause if I were here and you were there
I’d meet you in between
And not until my dying day, confess what I have seen.
MikeJ
I say we scrap the surgery and try to get a better option passed by the doctors.
Jim
I laughed when I saw Evan Bayh wanking on about a spending freeze yesterday.
Brian J
If anything happens to you tomorrow (and it won’t; don’t be Livia Soprano, for Christ’s sake!), I’m going to blame the one group that everyone knows is responsible for most of the trouble on the world: ACORN. Why, I bet that they are responsible for Scott Brown’s win in Massachusetts, as part of a plan to bring down HCR because it’s all about the insurance companies! Or something.
I’ve never seen “Chuck,” although people I know tell me it’s good. I’m excited about the return of “Damages” on FX. I missed most of last season due to laziness and the show’s return sneaked up on my me before I could catch up. But since the show more or less starts over each season, I hopefully won’t be too out of the loop. Supposed to have interesting guest turns from Martin Short and Lily Tomlin, among others.
srv
@demkat620: Since corporations are persons, I assume they can own pets.
Perhaps we should form a LLC and file for custody since John is obviously not able to feed them with one hand.
asiangrrlMN
All jokes aside, Cole, good luck with the surgery and a speedy recovery. Thank you, John’s mom for taking care of our boy!*
*That would be Tunch, of course.
Eljai
Nothing’s going to happen to you. I’m sure everything will go well tomorrow and your shoulder will be like new in no time. Besides, if anything happened to you we’d know it was Tunch.
Jason Bylinowski
Nice knowin’ ya.
General Winfield Stuck
LOL, and then I will come around and deliver a grammer challenged opus with attendant sanctimony skewering the mofo progs for blaming Obama on yer untimely demise.
Life goes on
You can’t stop the signal./
Get well soon dude and make sure they operate on the right parts.
Brian J
@Jim:
Not that it’s an idea we should take seriously, but we can approach people who advocate spending freezes in the same way we can approach those who go on about deficits: ask them what they want cut. Unless they are proposing specific cuts that total at least, say, $200 billion, they need to shut the fuck up.
Batocchio
Good luck with surgery.
Linkmeister
Listen, as long as you’re going under the knife anyway, have ’em do a colonoscopy at the same time. It’ll save trouble down the road.
Seriously, I’m sure it will go well. The actual medical care in this country is pretty good; it’s the insurance and administration aspects we get wrong.
Max
I guess someone will have to explain to me why a freeze in NET spending (some will go up, some will go down) is a bad thing.
Mike in NC
Best of luck with the operation.
TooManyJens
If anything goes wrong with your surgery, I plan to blame Apple.
Good luck!
SiubhanDuinne
John, all best wishes for a successful procedure tomorrow, a swift, comfortable and full recovery, and a speedy return to your Minions. Is someone like Devon or Tammy designated to give us updates until you get back? (Hey, maybe we could liveblog your operation!) Surrounding you with white light.
evie
Good luck, hope you’re back soon.
And as far as the spending freeze and lack of HCR results, I’ll only say that our year in power was nice while it lasted. Perhaps another SCOTUS member will retire before November, so we can at least get one decent result for a decade of effort.
See ya senate, congress, and the presidency. Can’t wait to see you in power again in the 20s.
AkaDad
I hope W. Virginia hasn’t passed tort reform. Not that you should worry about that, I’m sure you’ll be fine.
dr. bloor
Good luck tomorrow, Cole. Two things–don’t screw around with the nurses, docs and techs when they’re going through the preop checklist with you. We don’t want you waking up with ten pounds of hardware in the wrong shoulder, or worse, something like a below the knee amputation.
And really don’t joke with the anesthesiologist about whether he’s been sampling his wares. They can be a little touchy about that.
Re: other matters, I do not look forward to the humiliation Juicers will feel at the hands of Firebaggers if Obama actually has the ‘nads to call for a three year spending freeze. What the goddamfuckmewithasiangrrrsrustyfuckingchainsawshitfuck is he thinking?
Shell
If you should somehow ‘join the choir invisible,’ look for that dead parrot, the Norwegian Blue. ‘Beautiful plumage!’
All the best tomorrow, you’re gonna be fine.
It’s a nice feeling waking up in the recovery room, realizing that it’s all over.
Ben JB
Good luck, John.
But re: spending freeze, Yglesias reports that
MMM
Life it seems will fade away
Drifting further every day
Getting lost within myself
Nothing matters, no one else
Anne Laurie
Best of luck for a speedy surgery and a swift, painfree recovery. Looking forward to updates from Tammy and/or your mom telling us what you babbled while the anesthetic wore off…
Citizen Alan
Good luck on your surgery. I’ll be praying for you, to the extent that such things help when coming from an agnosic.
Now that that’s out of way …
FUCK!!!! Fuck Fuck Fuckity Fucking FUCK!!!!
Is there no bat-shit stupid idea that has ever been put forth by some dumbass Republican that our cringing dolt of a president won’t embrace in a futile effort to kiss Republican ass?!?!? Why doesn’t he just make Biden resign and then appoint Bible Spice as his new VP and be done with it?!?
As of now, I am actively planning to be on vacation on the first Tuesday of November 2012, preferably somewhere without a tv so I don’t even have to think about what a catastrophe the last four years have been.
JGabriel
John Cole @ Top:
Is that true or just a rumor? It does seem counter-intuitive to freeze discretionary spending just when it’s needed most to help create jobs and revive the economy.
Hmm.
Good luck with the surgery, John. Hope there’s wi-fi at the hospital so you can
rantpost from bed..
AhabTRuler
Then they should lay off the good shit!
WereBear
Well, on the other hand, the Obama administration is going to legislate about that frickin’ Supreme Court decision. I like that.
Michael D.
Good luck with the surgery, John! Gotta get some myself in the next two weeks. Sinuses totally fucked up.
My second surgery – this time with more polyps and a deviated septum!
Mine, however, will be much less painful.
rootless_e
“Is there no bat-shit stupid idea that has ever been put forth by some dumbass Republican that our cringing dolt of a president won’t embrace in a futile effort to kiss Republican ass?? ”
Does Luntz have to write this stuff or does it generate spontaneously via some sort of stockholm syndrome?
JenJen
Atrios and Krugman would be right to explode.
Good luck tomorrow, John, and I hope you’re back in one piece soon! I’ll be thinking of you.
Citizen Alan
@evie:
Do you really think the Repukes won’t filibuster to keep a SCOTUS seat open for the whole rest of Obama’s
firstonly term?Brian J
As far as the alleged spending freeze goes, Matt Yglesias describes how this may be more of a bait-and-switch that anything else. If that’s the case, then I am not concerned. If the proposed cuts are things that most people would agree need to be cut–as Yglesias, things like farm subsidies–then they will either be cut, which would be good, or they will be proposed but not actually be cut, in which case Obama can say that he tried and failed.
Based on what I know of his economic advisors, I don’t think any of them would call for something that would make Mitch McConnell and Eric Cantor happy, so my guess is that this is meant to intentionally mislead us or we’re all freaking out because we don’t know enough. Or maybe both. Either way, I’ll need to hear more.
El Cid
Yeah. God forbid you emphasize how utterly shitty this deficit fetish policy is and instead focus on how Jane Hamsher or some other fucking nobody will talk about it. [Poster’s note: I should acknowledge the possibility that this will be less shitty than I anticipate.]
SGEW
Good luck with your surgery, John! Wishing for a safe and successful procedure, and a speedy recovery.
Keep us posted.
Uriel
I’d like to join in in wishing you luck and such, but as Emerson, said: “Shallow men believe in luck. Strong men believe in cause and effect.”
With that in mind, I wish you cause and effect. Be careless out there!
Bruce (formerly Steve S.)
The answer, then, is to put Boeing in charge of Social Security, Medicare, and financial regulation. Voila, progressive agenda achieved.
Jim
@Brian J:
YEah, I’m waiting for the deets before I freak out, but I do hate even superficial lip service being paid to BlueDoggy obsessions.
Mike E
Seriously, sweet dreams. Save some of the ‘hard stuff’ for the Super Bowl!
AkaDad
@Brian J:
I’d much rather jump to conclusions.
stickler
Don’t forget to ask the medical team if they’re members of the Red States Trike Force: those bastards are ruthless and cunning. Just ask Moe Lane!
Seriously, Dr. Cole, good luck and enjoy the sedatives.
rootless_e
I’m confused. Are we supposed to freak out about the vague sense that DADT repeal is gonna be postponed or about the proposed budget freeze? I dunno if I have enough energy to do both freakouts at once.
arguingwithsignposts
I just finished expanding a comment I made in an earlier thread (thanks, KeithG) into a full blog post at my blog, and would be grateful for any feedback: Health Care Reform and the Giant Internet Wurlitzer(tm) witnessing history, folks.
Now to go back and read what all you other pristine MFers have written in this thread so far.
Noting obviously that Cole can’t quit us.
Ash Can
John’s off to surgery? Woo-hoo, let’s trash the joint!
Seriously, though, John, I’m glad you’re finally getting the shoulder taken care of. Now the real healing can begin. Hooray.
And in the meantime, your blog will remain populated with a load of yahoos running around hollering and screaming and wailing with their hair ablaze, other yahoos banging their heads on their desks and swearing, still other yahoos posting idiotic troll crap…
Hmmm…
Oh snap, Cole’s going to fake his own death so that he can get the hell away from all of us once and for all, isn’t he?
D-Chance.
Dibs on custody of Timmeh if you croak, Cole!
Someone has to custodialize for the little waif, after all…
dr. bloor
@Bruce (formerly Steve S.):
Just the job for the folks who
broughtmight eventually bring you the 787.Dave
I’m glad the Obama administration is finally getting around to seeing the teabaggers’ point.
Mike E
As for a phys therapist, opt for a ‘joint’ whisperer.
Brachiator
Good luck with the surgery. Next up: fun with physical therapy.
abscam
Very best wishes for a successful surgery.
Tax Analyst
@ #7 MikeJ
Oh, absolutely. I think this calls for a Television Diagnosis by Bill Frist.
Barry
Linkmeister
“Listen, as long as you’re going under the knife anyway, have ‘em do a colonoscopy at the same time. It’ll save trouble down the road.”
The shoulder surgeon might take that as a challenge.
There’s a story about a surgeon who liked working on cars, and decided to become a certified mechanic. He was taking the test, and was assigned the task of doing a tune-up. The instructor came back to the break-room, shaking his head ruefully. He told the other instructors that the guy had taken the full three hours to do a simple tune-up.
They asked him if he was going to fail the surgeon.
The instructor said “Actually, I gave him an A. He did the whole tune-up through the exhaust pipe”.
Good luck, John!
John Cole
You guys are missing a great episode of Chuck.
And I will be fine- this break was bad- in several places and through the joint, but I have a great surgeon.
Elisabeth
So John are you sincerely trying to get folks riled up? Did you look for any details about this non-defense discretionary spending freeze? I come here for rational discussion not ledes designed to provoke outrage.
robertdsc
Best wishes on a successful surgery, John.
HRA
@Ash Can:
Win! Lord, my sides hurt from laughing and my eyes are running like the Falls.
AkaDad
I had to make a phone call, so I’ll watch it tomorrow night on Hulu.
MMM
I Pray i’m forgiven
For every bad decision i made
Every sister i played
Cause i’m still paranoid to this day
And it’s nobody fault i made the decisions i made
This is the life i chose or rather the life that chose me
Max
@Elisabeth: Here’s some info.
http://politics.theatlantic.com/2010/01/obamas_3_year_freeze_democrats_brain_freeze.php
Also, if you’re on Twitter, I recommend following @owillis. He’s not fond of “The Left” hysterics.
arguingwithsignposts
@Tax Analyst:
I think we could pass john’s shoulder through some kind of reconciliation process, and he’d be fine. ;)
eemom
Joe Klein got this one right:
http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2010/01/25/too-dumb-to-thrive/#ixzz0dgBCbDfi
Ailuridae
@JGabriel:
It doesn’t “seem counterintuitive” its plainly, undeniably incorrect. If this is the path Obama goes down it would be absolutely disastrous. Absolutely positively disastrous.
John Cole
@Elisabeth: I’m not trying to get anyone riled up- I’m just reporting what I heard on twitter. I’d be willing to bet it is not what it is being labeled as right now.
TBogg
This is hemorrhoid surgery, isn’t it? Not that there is anything wrong with that….
Good luck with your “shoulder”.
Jim
Oh god. Olbermann has Kos phone in to give his
overreaction to the spending freezenewsrumorsCalming Influence
Break a leg, champ. And remember, if the doctors DO fuck up, go towards the light!
Elisabeth
@Max:
Thanks!
From the article:
Comrade Luke
From the Atlantic article:
Summary: If the President punches the hippies and they take the punch, everyone will be better off.
1. Punch hippies
2. ???
3. Win the midterms!
Guess I should ETA: I have no idea what’s in this “freeze”. I’m just assuming that the above will be the argument from the left.
Tomlinson
Good luck, Cole.
As for the spending freeze, I am completely unsurprised. The budgetary aspects of HCR have been largely ignored, but they’re very real.
No HCR, you’ve got to freeze spending elsewhere.
Obama’s been leading on Congress with carrots, but he just pulled out a very, very large stick.
Elisabeth
@John Cole:
Heh. “Reporting what I heard on twitter.” There’s so many things wrong with that sentence. :) Doesn’t take much to get folks riled these days…me, too, it seems.
General Winfield Stuck
@John Cole:
Aw, the devil you say.
Nellcote
Proposals for budget cuts, note the reductions in ag/oil subsidies. btw it’s a pdf.
Terminations, Reductions, and Savings
Budget of the U.S. Government
Fiscal Year 2010
Jim
Rachel has Jared Bernstein, chief econ advisor to Biden, talking about the ‘freeze’
malraux
@Brian J:
There’s one other option. Obama proposes cuts of those programs and give a budget total. The press and congress ignore the proposed cuts, focus on the budget total, cut unrelated programs, and increase the programs Obama wants to cut. Then, because they end up delivering a budget that meets his goals, he is going to be forced to pass it.
Brian J
@Jim:
I don’t, if it’s part of a strategy. As I said earlier, if it’s basically part of a bait-and-switch that gets people off his back for a little while, so much the better.
In an ideal world, he could lay out a strategy for dealing with deficits once the economy as reached certain thresholds, like unemployment falling below 7 percent or the interest rate on bonds going above a certain percent. In other words, his plan would almost certainly need to start a couple of years down the line. But that’s a much harder idea to communicate and sell.
Elisabeth
@Jim:
Rachel went to a named source? Someone who is willing to say what he knows on the record, showing his face and all? So, what’s he saying?
Brian J
@malraux:
That seems unlikely to happen.
Uriel
@John Cole:
Sure, they all say that.
Then you wake up holding your liver in a jar, you’ve been un-circumsized, and you find out that in the future you ‘ll have to take off your shirt and do a handstand in order to use the restroom.
Then they’re all like “hey, I was just stepping back and letting the surgical prep team and the anesthesiologists play their parts in the process. What, you don’t want some sort of unitary surgeon, now, do you?”
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
Good luck John, and may your Gasser (Anesthesiologist) be the best in your area. Having been under the knife far too many times myself, I have learned that how you feel immediately after the surgery can be affected by the skill of the Gasser. I have bad memories of one such event and I will not bother describing it to you other than to say that I never knew vomit could smell like that (and I have seen lots of vomit in my lifetime).
Don’t skip out on flirting with the nurses. Also. :)
If you are vomiting, skip the flirting and go for the sympathy. ;)
Texas Dem
Good. The more the lefties moan and groan, the better. As a matter of fact, I hope they rend their garments and shout to the heavens.
rootless_e
Oh my god!
Obama really hates us
Crouch down low
under the bus
We called him a fool
a puppet and a joke
We sneered about all that
change and hope
But now it turns out
we were right all along
it’s the millionth time since
november
we’ve sung this same song
– Jane H. and the Bloggerama Complaints Choir
Neutron Flux
@eemom: One of the regulars over there, Stuart Zechman, does not agree with you.
For what it is worth, I think Joe Klein got it right also.
Chris
in regard to “teh freeze”…Let me be the first to say, I for one, welcome our new teabagging overlords.
My god, listen to Jared Bernstein on Rachel. My FSM, either this is either stupid or bullshit. There is no good answer to this. Who got him to go on and try to go through these ridiculous gyrations? Even he doesnt believe this garbage. Do they not get that this is not gonna get them one teabagger vote? We are doomed.
Max
@Elisabeth: Doesn’t include HCR, entitlements, jobs initiatives, college programs, eldercare, etc.
Essentially, that scaple that Obama talked about for 2 years on the campaign is coming out.
Mass liberal hysteria! He’s doing what he said he was going to.
I really think it’s time to register as an Indy. The “left” is fucking nuts.
ETA – @Chris: I don’t get that at all. Were we watching the same program?
Tax Analyst
@ #64 arguingwithsignposts
Good thing you’re joking there, awsp. I think what comes out of the “reconciliation process” is going to be more like sausage than steak.
Not that I’m not in favor of reconciliation (or sausage). Sausage can be mighty fine in some situations (on a good pizza, for instance). ;)
General Winfield Stuck
Don’t worry, the Chinese will pay for it.
Chris
If we find out later that this was the cost of Evan Bayh’s vote on HCR, I could forgive this ridiculous charade. Otherwise, this is at the very least disengenous, and at worst, suicidal.
Jim
Bernstein is more than holding his own. Calling this “McCain’s budget plan” is not honest or accurate, but calling this a “freeze” was, I suspect, a jujitsu too far.
Betsy
Good luck with the surgery! I hope it goes off without a hitch, and your recovery is swift and easy.
kay
@Max:
I saw most of that, doesn’t include 150 billion jobs bill either, but where are you seeing “HCR”?
Where was that budgeted?
Darkrose
Wait, you’re not going to Twitter every step of the surgery? Luddite.
(and seriously, hope everything goes well and you have two arms again soon)
Elisabeth
@Max:
I’m waiting for the SOTU on Wednesday. I can’t pivot from outrage to confusion to that’s not a bad thing that quick anymore.
Plus, I worked out for the first time in a looong time. Things hurt; I can’t afford my head to hurt, too.
Ailuridae
I’m sure someone has mentioned this elsewhere but 538 now has bonddad as a front pager.
demkat620
I don’t know who’s bright idea this is but it is the biggest crock of shit I’ve ever heard and I’ve lived through Reagan, two Bushes and a Clinton.
This is stupid. You are not going to make independents love you with this shit.
Calming Influence
John, a little pre-surgery tip: get the biggest Sharpie you can find, and on your left shoulder write “NOT THIS ONE”.
Do it now before you forget. You’ll thank me later.
fraught
I came for the pets and stayed for the surgery. Let it be a good one.
WereBear
@Darkrose: That cracked me right up.
Max
@kay: It was budgeted in the 09-10 budget and I think the other portions are covered under “entitlements”.
Jared is really pushing back on Rachel. She’s a hysteric and I don’t watch her very much.
Chris
@Max
I was screaming at the TV. So its likely I missed something. I hope so. (hard to listen with head hitting keyboard/desk)
Tax Analyst
Darkrose said:
…and that one of them is a left arm and the other one a right arm.
Comrade Luke
I can’t believe how fast people get incensed over essentially a Chuck Todd tweet. BTW, can we call Chuck Todd tweets twats? Just for the f of it.
It seems like every remotely left-leaning person is sitting in the bleachers just waiting to yell “SELL OUT!” as soon as Obama gets done talking, without listening to a word of what he even said.
And btw, I have no idea if he’s selling out here – that’s the point. We’ve gone from analyzing proposals once they’ve been read to doing so before they’re actually…you know…proposed.
Don’t know why they’re doing it at all though. They won’t get one more vote because of it.
Brian J
@Chris:
That, or, as indicated earlier, it’s intentional bullshit, a plan designed to “address” the concerns of the OMGTHEDEFICIT!!!!!!!!!!!! crowd without actually doing it.
Peter J
Good luck with the surgery.
Does the blog have a 25th amendment of some sort? Who will be in charge of it while you’re under anesthesia? Is it the same as the contact list? Or will it be one hour of pure and total anarchy? What if “WordPress Error” returns?
GregB
I hear the Soylent Green Company is looking for new scoop drivers.
-G
arguingwithsignposts
I should mention that when I want to go to the happy place, Billy Bragg and Bill Bailey always help: Unisex Chip Shop.
General Winfield Stuck
@Max:
It is why I quit arguing with them as of today. I will still be involved and say what I think, but debating them, as pointless as it is with wingnuts of the right.
kay
@Max:
Thanks. That makes sense. The big spending would be Medicare and Medicaid.
Jared is the liberal economist who was supposedly “sidelined”, by the way, back in the day, about 6 weeks ago.
henqiguai
@Uriel (#40):
Interesting, and thanks for that quote. I have always used my own formulation – “Luck is for rabbits and other prey…” But then, I’ve also never been accused of being overly empathetic.
And what’s with all the premature freaking out about a f*cking rumored policy announcement ? As has been pointed out already, it’s even rumored to be a NET, EFFECTIVE freeze. And nobody yet knows what’s going to be targeted, one way or the other. Bunch of damned prey setting yourselves up for
predationheartburn.Jim
@Comrade Luke:
demkat620
@Brian J: That’s a nice idea but I guarantee you Holy Joe and Ben Nelson’s hair will be on CNN by tomorrow night to tell us that its a nice start but not near enough and we need to gut that nasty entitlement spending and gee what a great idea it would be to put the brakes on HCR until after the Novemebr elections.
ruemara
Safe surgery, Cole.
And, end my O-bot status. I am officially fed up with, weak kneed, reactionary crap from my president. Whoever is advising him is more idiotic than a barrel of teabaggers. I have never seen a more lily-livered bunch, I just can’t believe it.
eemom
oh God. I actually RESPECT Andrew Leonard’s opinion, so this is just depressing me more.
http://www.salon.com/news/us_economy/index.html?story=/tech/htww/2010/01/25/obamas_anti_stimulus
I picked the right week to not quit drinking.
eemom +2
demkat620
@kay: Christ if he’s the liberal we’re in deep shit.
Martin
‘Cutting spending’ isn’t a guaranteed pass to economic doom. There’s tons of spending the gov can do that won’t impact recovery. Hell, I hate to say it but the 2×4 that my budget has taken thanks to Arnold has resulted in us going almost totally paperless, streamlining processes, and so on. It’s killing me since it’s my job to make everything happen, but what’s left of my staff are feeling pretty good about it, overall, because they feel more productive than ever before and they aren’t working substantially harder.
If the federal government can have the same kinds of results, it won’t hurt the economy at all. Imagine if the IRS got their administrative shit together – it could save billions, not just in reduced costs but probably also in increased receipts, and it would have no economic impact at all.
Now, I really don’t have a lot of faith that the federal government can actually do that, but then I didn’t think these sorts of things would ever happen either…
rootless_e
@kay:
“Jared is the liberal economist who was supposedly “sidelined”, by the way, back in the day, about 6 weeks ago.”
He’s made rapid switch from sidelined to “turned”. OMG! They got to Krugman first, then Bernstien. It’s the MOSSAD! Call Grover, we have an emergency here!
Jim
What the hell? How and why did that post, all by itself?
I’m in! I don’t think Rachel is, usually, an hysteric, but she is completely freaking out over the word “freeze”. I expect that from KO, Kos, Atrios and his minions. Wait till the damn specifics are out. (Oy, Rachel follows up with GOPer Mark McKinnon. Jesus wept).
Max
@kay: I like him very much. I also like Austin Googlesbee (or whatever).
Carrie
Oh god, i miss him already.
cathaireverywhere
Best wishes on the surgery- I hope all goes well.
So, earlier I saw a story about Baby Barack’s statue in Indonesia maybe being taken down in response to a Facebook petition (yes, you read the correctly, a Facebook petition) The group claims to have more than 50,000 members. Apparently, the story started with Fox, then was printed on TPM and Wonkette. The thing is, I went to Facebook and looked up the group, and it has only 2,000ish members, many of whom don’t appear to be Indonesian. So, is this more Teabaggery? Do all of these “journalists” just print things without checking the facts, or did I somehow look it up wrong? I hope I am somehow wrong, because I am discouraged about journalism right now.
kommrade reproductive vigor
By show of hands: Who will be surprised if Cole blogs from the recovery room?
I see no hands.
Good luck John.
General Winfield Stuck
Don’t worry progressives, help is on the way.
Brian J
@demkat620:
In other words, pretty much exactly what they’ve been saying all along?
Elisabeth
@eemom:
What’s wrong with picture from your link?:
As an aside, I don’t think anyone said anything about balancing the budget. Although, it would be nice to cut some defense budget numbers.
kay
@Brian J:
“The payoff in budget savings would be small relative to the deficit: The estimated $250 billion in savings over 10 years would be less than 3 percent of the roughly $9 trillion in additional debt the government is expected to accumulate over that time.”
I would relax a little. The jobs bill he’s trying to get is 150 billion. He’d just have to get that in by October 1st, and it wouldn’t be affected by this.
So far (and I reserve the right to change my mind) it looks like an effort to discipline Congress. The stimulus was a little nuts with goodies for constituents. Focus their minds.
Sly
@Nellcote:
Just the thing to get Kent Conrad to flex his budget-tightening muscles: Cut the agribusinesses giveaways he worked so hard to get.
Good. Fuck him.
kay
@Max:
I don’t like Austin Goolsbee because he’s a free trader who masquerades as a non-free trader. There’s just something untrustworthy about him. I thought he was flat-out lying on trade during the primary. Lying about trade in rust belt states is just endemic. It has to stop.
I don’t mind him being a free trader. I mind the masquerade.
Comrade Kevin
@Jim: That segment went kind of like this:
Maddow: HOOVERISM!
Bernstein: No, because [big long answer]
Maddow: But, HOOVERISM!
Bernstein: No, because [another long answer]
Maddow: HOOVERISM!
etc, over and over.
Calming Influence
@Calming Influence:
Wait, I forgot you’re in West Virginia. Use the Sharpie to write “NOT HERE EITHER” on both elbows, both knees, and your yam sack.
Ash Can
@Tomlinson: That’s a very interesting point.
@cathaireverywhere: Wha…? Why the holy freaking hell should anyone in Indonesia give half a fart about what a bunch of assholes on Facebook say? None of whom, I’d be willing to wager, are Indonesian themselves. Sounds like a load of horse manure to me.
arguingwithsignposts
@Elisabeth: You mean beside the reference to “Frederick Roosevelt”? I stopped reading right there. It’s Franklin, thankuverymuch. If you’re too much of an idiot to use teh Google, you shouldn’t be writing for Salon.
Jane_in_Colorado
You’ll do great, John. Having been through a colon resection and a hysterectomy this year, I found that I got great results simply by doing exactly what the medical folks said to do. The biggest mistake is trying to do too much too soon–so don’t do that. Let your Mom help. She’ll be happy to.
Max
@Comrade Kevin: Well summarized and accurate.
@Kay – Econ (in this form) not an area I know a lot about. I work in real estate asset management, specifically retail, so I’m affected further down the line. You’ve prompted me to take a closer look. I appreciate it.
WaterGirl
@Tomlinson: It sounds like you are suggesting that this is related to HCR? Can you say more?
Chris
@Max, @Kay–Thanks for the info. The scalpel sounds more like it. I do remember that from the campaign. But I just filed it under usual campaign rhetoric. “Cutting wasteful spending” and the like. Its been a stressful week or so.
Brian J
@kay:
Like I said before, I am waiting to reserve judgment until I see what the details are. Everything else is useless speculation. Perhaps there are good ideas in his plans, as you indicate. If I had to guess, that’s what I would say. I can’t imagine him, after all, deciding that Eric Cantor was right. I just worry that he is freaking out like everyone says he is and will propose to do something really, really dumb. I don’t think that’s the case, but I am usually disappointed.
Ailuridae
@henqiguai:
Actually we do know whats going to be targeted. Or more accurately we know the 5/6 to 6/7 of the budget that can’t be targeted.
General Winfield Stuck
@Martin: Thank you for this comment.
Uriel
@Chris:
Relax, Henny Penny- the sky isn’t falling, the children of Hamlin are un-abducted, and London bridge is safe and sound, no matter what you keep repeating.
There are things called “scope,” “details,” and “implementation.” You should wait until we hear more about these before you start searching out Foxy Loxy.
By the way, about the “not getting a single vote?” Bill Clinton’s re-election says hi.
KS in MA
I just want to say, Good luck. We’re all counting on you.
The Truffle
Obama said during his campaign that when he was president he would go over the government programs and cut waste. The “inside source” at the WH says they’re going to “target ‘duplicative,’ ‘ineffective’ and ‘inefficient’ spending.” Nobody’s losing Medicaid, okay? Can we all wait for the SOTU?
Uriel
@Calming Influence:
Never heard that one before. Learn something new every day, round here. Not sure if that’s a good thing. ; )
KCinDC
Note that a three-year spending freeze (at least according to Yglesias) really means that that part of the budget stays the same for three years, so it’s only two years of increases that are being skipped. It has no effect until the 2012 budget, by which point the economy had better be recovering, so my concerns about neo-Hooverism were misplaced.
Dee Loralei
Best of luck with the surgery John and with a speedy recovery. Hope your nurses and PTs are gorgeous single women.
Is Lincoln retiring?
Don’t forget new Psych and Leverage both at same time Wed. Hurrah for dvr.
Nellcote
@Comrade Kevin:
You forgot the part where she talked over his answer(s) or wouldn’t let him get a reply in. Very Tweety of her.
Ailuridae
@Max:
Austan Goolsbee. I am holding hope that if Obama wins in 2012 that both he and Romer have much bigger roles in the second half of Obama’s administration. He’s also a breath of fresh air inside the Beltway as he’s actually really funny.
Unabogie
Look, I’m a fiscal scold, I guess, because in my liberal household, my Dad raised me to understand that Reagan’s budgets, which bloated the national debt, was a bad thing. When Clinton lowered it, I thought it was a good thing. When Bush sent it into the stratosphere, I was horrified, even though Dick Cheney said “deficits don’t matter”. They do matter. They suck. I oppose them. I support rational attempts to get them down.
This should be applauded by all, even though my prediction is that it will be applauded by none.
Uriel
@Uriel: By the way, I should mention that, “london bridge is safe and sound, no matter what you keep repeating.” Is actually the intellectual property of Elliot Smith. But he’s dead now, so screw em.
kay
@rootless_e:
Nah. Jared’s a liberal. I think it would take more than one EVIL RAHM EMANUEL to “turn” him.
I’m pleased that he and Elizabeth Warren are more visible. I love her very much. She’s one of the few people I actually consistently admire.
Elisabeth
@arguingwithsignposts:
I was willing to cut some slack on “Frederick” but, AFAIK, no one has said anything about balancing the budget. Wednesday can’t get here soon enough. And, yippee, newly-minted Gov. McDonnell is giving the rebuttal.
Captain Goto
I’ve done this before, and it’s cheesy, but what the hell.
[places hand on monitor]
HEAL!
Calming Influence
@Uriel:
That’s right, the Balloon Juice comment section is like a college education, at a college that offers a major in “Turkish Prison”.
Chris
@Uriel
Thanks for the reality check. After the last week or so its easy to dive off the deep end. And man..do I miss Bill, AND the early 90’s.
Comrade Kevin
@Nellcote: True, I left that out. I was kind of surprised, actually, as she usually doesn’t do that.
mclaren
As the nightmare worsens, we descend ever more rapidly into an America that increasingly resembles East Germany.
I’m certainly glad you’ve got health insurance. I don’t. Most of the people I know don’t. And frankly, that’s not even my biggest concern right now.
Comrade Kevin
Someone needs to take that Kent Jones guy and choke him to death with a tartan scarf.
cat48
Good luck and a prayer for your good health.
rootless_e
I liked when Austen Goolsbee turned into a leftist economist so he could be sidelined in Taibbi’s nitwit narrative.
Chris
Wooo0000T!! The trolls are here. A great distraction from TRMS.
arguingwithsignposts
@Elisabeth:
Sorry, no slack here. FDR wasn’t some small-time Pres. He served over four terms, even forced a constitutional amendment. They’d better get his goddamn name right. I don’t care which team they’re batting for.
“Frederick” Roosevelt my ass.
kay
@rootless_e:
I didn’t get that either. But, then, I followed the primary.
This is sort of interesting:
“Obama’s budget director, Peter R. Orszag, initially directed Cabinet secretaries and agency heads to propose alternative budgets — one with a freeze and another that cut spending by 5 percent. Months of internal arguments and appeals followed.”
So this isn’t a big shocker, in the executive branch anyway.
rootless_e
@kay:
I’m just trying to keep track of the good guys and bad guys in the FDL/Taibbi/Sirota narrative.
One of my favorite books:
Under the Bus – by Jane “Keruac” Hamsher
The “beat down” generation, in a madcap ride under Obama’s bus featuring “Dean” Taibbi, the manic visionary of the working class, “Carlo” Norquist, the mystic poet of bathtubs, “Dave” “In my column” Sirota – a journalist, fueled on sweet wine and bennies, and many others as Hamsher takes us on a underbus journey to find the soul of the progressive heartland.
Elisabeth
@arguingwithsignposts:
I tried to blame it on SpellCheck for a minute but you’d think it would accept Franklin. At least they got Roosevelt right.
Elisabeth
@kay:
To put it in a positive light, at the very least the secretaries had to fight for what they wanted and, presumably, justify it. That’s not a bad thing in my book.
Notorious P.A.T.
Lack Of Self-Awareness Post of the Day. At least “Frederick” is a real fucking word.
freelancer
@Comrade Kevin:
Why not just cut his heart out with a spoon?
Um Yeah
You can only punch your base in the dick so many times… but then here we are.
kay
@rootless_e:
I figured they were going to give the Treasury-Finance people preeminence until they brought the system back from the brink (or tried to, I think the jury is still out) and then go to the “help the middle class” gang of Romer and Jared and Warren.
And they’ve done that.
I’m pissed at Obama on health care, I think he should have reigned in the Senate (hindsight, admittedly, I didn’t know what bloviating jerks they were going to be) but I’m actually okay with Obama on the economy.
I’d give him a “B”.
So I don’t read the Obama-economy rants, except Krugman, just because I’m in the habit of reading Krugman.
Kineslaw
Good luck with the surgery! One piece of advice – go into surgery well hydrated. It really helps you to recover from the anesthesia more quickly.
kay
@Elisabeth:
I agree, Elisabeth.
General Winfield Stuck
it seems that be Roger Ailes colon. Progressive fartland.
You realize you are corrupting my galt with your fine tuned snark. Makin’ me all evil.
rikyrah
i’ll say a little prayer for you and your surgery.
arguingwithsignposts
@Notorious P.A.T.:
Well, 2 hours later and he’s admitted his mistake, or I’m sorry, he’s corrected his mistake without admitting it:
What’s more, one of the links doesn’t work, but, hey, I’m not self-aware on that whole Intertubes thing, either.
None of which is to dismiss the point that Obama shouldn’t be playing “deficit hawk” at this juncture, but dammit, they aren’t doing any favors by misreading the name of the most influential president of the 20th century. It would be like saying “Ahab Lincoln presided over the Civil War. And the worst part is the f**kers will get away with it, most likely, because everyone will look past the obvious factual error to the “larger point.” Get them both right, or at least admit that “hey, we screwed up.”
Jim
@Um Yeah: Other than the fact that they’re calling this a “spending freeze”, could you articulate exactly how this is a ‘punch in the dick’ of the base?
Sentient Puddle
@John Cole:
Seconded. Though starting midway through season 2, it sort of became redundant to say that an episode of Chuck is “great.” It’s now just assumed.
Seriously, why the fuck aren’t all the rest of you watching this?! I swear, I have to do ten $5 foot-longs every week to make up for the slacking going on here…
Uriel
@Chris: Glad you took that in the spirit intended, and not as a call to arms, a declaration of vendetta or something of the sort.
There’s been a few instances over the past week where a couple of people here have somehow fallen under the impression that my flippant babbling resembles something that should be taken very seriously. I’ll never understand how that happened. ; )
(Though I will admit, this kind of “line in the sand” stuff make me a little nervous as well. Hopefully this ends more like Clinton and less like the daddy decider.)
The Truffle
@Unabogie: Too many Kos posters are already going nuts. They’ve devoted two front page diaries to this freeze. ARGH!
t jasper parnel
There was a link up above to this document that list each termination or cut proposed for FY2010.
Abandoned Mine Lands Payments to Certified States, Department of the Interior………………………….7
Advanced Earned Income Tax Credit, Department of the Treasury………………………………………………..8
Anthrax Vaccine Research, Department of Health and Human Services…………………………………………9
Brownfields Economic Development Initiative, Department of Housing and Urban Development….10
C-17 Strategic Airlift Aircraft, Department of Defense…………………………………………………11
California Diesel Emissions Reduction Grants, Environmental Protection Agency………………………..12
Character Education Program, Department of Education……………………………………………………………13
Christopher Columbus Fellowship Foundation………………………………………….14
Civic Education, Close-Up Fellowships, and Academies for American History and Civics (3 Terminations),
Department of Education…………………………………………………15
Combat Search and Rescue (CSAR-X) Helicopter, Department of Defense…………………………………….16
Conservation Reserve Program Set-Aside for Public Access, Department of Agriculture………………..17
Corridor H of the Appalachian Development Highway, Department of Transportation…………………..18
Cotton Storage Payments, Department of Agriculture …19
Nellcote
@arguingwithsignposts:
That’s not even what Prez. Obama’s rumoured to be proposing.
freelancer
@Kineslaw:
They want your stomach empty, and your bladder as well, otherwise you might have to learn about the joy of a foley, or a catheter. Don’t abstain from drinking, but by all means, follow the instructions of your surgeon. Don’t listen to us, because they have got this down pat. This might seem monumental to you, and it is, for every patient, but don’t be surprised if the hospital staff, while caring, seem a bit nonchalant.
Most successful OR areas are streamlined to within nanometers of their optimal performance for sheer efficiency. You might get a subtext of feeling like meat on an assembly line, don’t take it personal. These surgeons and the staff that support them are pros. They can’t wear their heart on their sleeves with every patient. Trust in them, and their work, and you’ll be just fine.
AkaDad
We should start a pool to see who can guess correctly what reason the Republicans will use to oppose Obama’s plan to cut Government spending.
Notorious P.A.T.
I don’t think so.
Svensker
Do real good tomorrow, John — and tell your surgeon to do good, too.
We’ll all still be here when you get back. (If that doesn’t set back your recovery, I don’t know what will.)
Does your mom know exactly how many scritches are necessary for the critters?
cathaireverywhere
@Ash Can: Right- my thoughts exactly, yet TPM and Wonkette both printed it in a non-ironic manner. I need to go back to beating my head on the wall. Had to FF through most of Rachel and Olbermann tonight- they were frustrating me.
DonBelacquaDelPurgatorio
Big sign on the bad shoulder: Open This Side.
That should do the job.
Remember TZ’s First Rule of Hospitalization:
If you do that, everything else takes care of itself.
NanaColleen
@rootless_e: Rootless, you can postpone the DADT freakout until that one expires next year and work on the spending freeze now.
Jim
It’s rarely a good thing to cut spending during a recession.
Nellcote
@AkaDad:
I want to know which gooper is going to be first to jump up and yell at the Prez. at the SOTU.
Notorious P.A.T.
I wonder why they think no one cares about details like that?
I mean, “Y they think we don want right presnit name? can haz?”
Woodbuster
Late to the party, but good luck tomorrow, John. I am confident that you will come out fine and with all the requisite parts intact and functioning to spec, with full recovery in no time.
And should I be wrong, fuck what everybody else said about “going toward the light.” PLEASE go haunt Jane Hamsher for a while first, okaythxbai!
Notorious P.A.T.
Or another way: if you don’t want people to think it’s alright to play fast and loose with word choice, don’t throw around bullshit constructions like “TEH”. What goes around, comes around.
eemom
jeez, now we’re really coming unglued here. ok, so Leonard said Frederick when he meant Franklin. Do you think he doesn’t actually know what Roosevelt’s name was? Has nobody here ever made a stupid mistake??
Leonard is a reasonable, knowledgeable guy most of the time, and unlike some other Salon bloggers I could name, he doesn’t have any lunatic agenda.
bago
Did anyone READ the terminations? The big ones are Cutting the F-22, the C-17, the JSF alternate engine, and pushing back on the Multiple Kill Vehicle program in Alaska. Then there are a lot of cuts from duplicate funding of programs.
RTFB, morans!
wilfred
Good luck wth your surgery, John.
Nick
@Max: @Jim:
Which is why he’s not CUTTING spending.
Ailuridae
@Jim:
I don’t think the base really understands why this is bad economics so I don’t think they consider it a punch. It does buy into a big of right wing framing giving an irrelevant economics issue pre-eminence though. It would be very akin to suggesting that malpractice lawsuits are a big factor in health care costs (they’re not and are actually declining in both absolute costs and, as a result of health care spending overall)
Brad Delong on this point
http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2010/01/barack-herbert-hoover-obama.html
But even Dingbat Kabuki in a country as big as this one is played for large stakes. What we are talking about is $25 billion of fiscal drag in 2011, $50 billion in 2012, and $75 billion in 2013. By 2013 things will hopefully be better enough that the Federal Reserve will be raising interest rates and will be able to offset the damage to employment and output. But in 2011 GDP will be lower by $35 billion–employment lower by 350,000 or so–and in 2012 GDP will be lower by $70 billion–employment lower by 700,000 or so–than it would have been had non-defense discretionary grown at its normal rate. (And if you think, as I do, that the federal government really ought to be filling state budget deficit gaps over the next two years to the tune of $200 billion per year, the employment numbers are more like 3.3 and 3.7 million in 2011 and 2012, respectively.)
NanaColleen
I’ve been pretty critical of the big O but I think he may be calling the Republican’s bluff with this one. Since the freeze isn’t across the board, and since he’s also exempting specific stimulus programs, this may be a way for him to force Republicans to rally around their own special interests and subsidies and expose their hypocricy.
rootless_e
@NanaColleen: thanks god. Us over 50s need some time to recuperate between the freakouts. Now I can panic about the budget in style
OMG! He’s worse than Reagan! I told you we should have elected Comrade Hillary. She was vetted! Rezko, mclurkin, splutter, cough. gasp!@ #@#$@%#$%^@#-1`
Notorious P.A.T.
@Nellcote:
Considering that the last one saw his fundraising skyrocket afterwards, I would say most of them will.
FlipYrWhig
@henqiguai:
But I wanna be mad NOW! Waaah! I don’t wanna wait! Mad, mad MAD! Look, Mom, look! Mom! Look! You’re not looking! Mom! I’m mad! Wanna see my mad face? Mom! Mom! Look!
arguingwithsignposts
@Notorious P.A.T.:
Notorious P.A.T., that’s a bullshit argument and you know it. It’s one thing to throw around the “teh” and the “kitteh” when you’re dealing with non-descript word on “teh internets”.
Nobody misspells f**king proper names, well, unless they are Fox News, and then they confuse Obama with Osama all the time. BTW, “Frederick” … “Franklin” not even close. Malfeasance, pure and simple. I could even buy if it was “Frank” or “Franclin” but “Frederick”? WTF?
Even “Moot” gets the correct nym spelling.
Go play grammar Nazi (Godwin!) somewhere else with that weak sh*t.
jwb
@General Winfield Stuck: I was wondering when someone was going to float something like this. Timing seems a bit early actually. Gingrich himself seems to recognize this when he says the contract shouldn’t be announced until August. But floating it openly now—it’s either subterfuge or not very smart.
suzanne
This is to correct a “distinguishing characteristic”, isn’t it, ya old dawg! ;)
Seriously, have you thought about drawing a big arrow on yourself pointing to your shoulder with a Sharpie? I did that for my surgery, as I am a paranoiac and I had absolutely convinced myself that, while I had walked in to have a cyst removed from my neck, I would leave without a leg or some such.
Best of luck to you tomorrow. May Tunch and Lily welcome you home with sweetness.
Chris
@Uriel
Oh yeah. I come here for you thoughtful, less impulsive people than me. So I can appear thoughtful and less impulsive to my less informed peers tomorrow. However—man dont stick your head into atrios’ place or FDL. Its a bloodbath. Impeachments and conspiracy theories abound. Though from what I hear, thats a normal day over there.
Bob In Pacifica
If this is true then Obama can rightly be called a saboteur. It should be obvious that this awful recession is not going to get better without enough of a stimulus. If Obama really plans to freeze everything for the next three years except for DEFENSE SPENDING He will be intentionally destroying the party. The death panel, folks, is for the party.
FlipYrWhig
I hear Atrios is already coming up with a clever new nickname for the policy. Perhaps “Frozen Shitpile” or “Shitcicle.” Open Thread.
FlipYrWhig
@Bob In Pacifica:
Any sentence beginning like this -> skip to the next post.
arguingwithsignposts
@eemom:
I’d accept it if he admitted the brain fart. I’d even accept “hey, it’s been a long week, and, know what? I typed “Frederick” when I meant “Franklin.” if he does that, I’ll back down. Until then, he’s typing into my wind. I am arguing with signposts, after all (that’s a joke, btw, feel free to throw in comments about my mental state at this point).
Jason Bylinowski
So, I’m no economist but this freeze thing would seem to indicate to me that Obama is basically is in full panic mode. I was so so hoping that he was going to be brave and fight this thing through. Oh well, maybe he’ll still be willing to fight for healthcare. I just don’t see what good a freeze will do, i don’t even see the “optics” angle in this. The republicans are just going to say he should be doing more than this, no matter what he does, so I see very little reason to bother with it at all.
And, I don’t see the big deal with the whole Frederick/Franklin controversy on that article mentioned earlier. You guys never did something like that before? Maybe I’m just that loopy.
—
P.S. Good luck with your penile reduction surgery tomorrow, John Cole. I think it’s great that you have such compassion for the ladies.
Notorious P.A.T.
Right. What he is doing is FREEZING spending when he should be INCREASING it. Which is just as bad.
When has he ever done anything so shrewd? And anyway, that would be an act of partisan aggression, whereas he wants a bipartisan government.
Comrade Kevin
@FlipYrWhig: I dunno, that sounds a bit too substantial for an Atrios post.
bago
So, who has Read The Fuckin Budgetproposal?
t jasper parnel: Point to you…
Brian J
@AkaDad:
What’s the point of a pool when they all act the same?
SIA
Anyone that missed the earlier thread “Help a Brother Out”, someone JC knows needs some help and if a lot of people would chip in, it would take so little each to make a huge difference in this guy’s life. Hopefully all of us have had the experience of needing help (and receiving it) from the collective. Only 40 comments, but I really think it’s because it was mid-late afternoon and a lot of people didn’t see it. Just a thought.
John, I’m sure all will be well but I for one hope I don’t read anything by you on Wednesday. Other folks have your back for a couple days at least.
rootless_e
@FlipYrWhig:
Nobody could have anticipated a wry, but contentless, snide remark from Atrios, implying much knowledge.
General Winfield Stuck
@jwb: It’s smelling the faint scent of dem blood in the water. They can’t help themselves and can you blame them with dems shredding each other to bits. They have seen this movie before, though i think they are in worse shape and it is too early for them to get anything like the 94 traction.
But our activists are doing what they can to speed things up for the wingnuts.
arguingwithsignposts
@rootless_e:
Eated.
that is all.
Jean
@Elisabeth: Yes, because McDonnell has so much to offer. So far, he’s opened a few rest stops. And after touting his own plans to fund transportation (minimal enough to fix a few potholes) and criticizing Deeds’s plan to create a commission to explore transportation funding, McDonnell has decided to create a commission! But no taxes, no matter what. Yep, he’s a great choice to respond to the SOTU.
eemom
I give up.
Let us harken back to the wise words of the Cheshire Cat that John quoted a few weeks ago:
“But I don’t want to go among mad people,” Alice remarked.
“Oh, you can’t help that,” said the Cat. “We’re all mad here.”
Notorious P.A.T.
@arguingwithsignposts:
I just think it’s funny when someone rants against our degraded national discourse while purposefully helping to degrade it themself. Like I said, replacing “Franklin” with “Frederick” is a simple Freudian slip that doesn’t subtract from the point being made, whereas “teh” is a foolish faux word that signifies nothing and is used for no particular reason other than “everyone else is doing it so I will too”.
kay
@Notorious P.A.T.:
Why, though? Why don’t you think so?
I mean, it’s happening.
ON THE day after Tuesday’s electoral loss, the Obama administration brought an unfamiliar face to the White House – Elizabeth Warren, the Harvard Law professor noted for her staunch advocacy on behalf the middle class and fierce criticism of the bank bailouts.
I don’t think you can say they’re marginalizing the liberals when you’re seeing the liberals. Unless you want to tell me Warren and Bernstein are “captured” somehow.
I was in favor of the auto bailouts. Failure on that would have devastated the place where I live. If I’m honest, I have to take that fact into account when I go off on the bank bailouts.
Ailuridae
@bago:
That budget proposal you linked is for FY 2010. This freeze sets spending for FY 2011 and then holds steady for 2012 and 2013. So that link you provide, while interesting, has nothing to do with this discussion.
Brian J
@Ailuridae:
He also posted an update:
Does this make it a little better?
Mayken
@evie: Only if it is one of the bad 5. And then we’ll see a battle royale and end up with some moderate dink.
rootless_e
@arguingwithsignposts:
wheee! Lucy and the Football! Stupid Dems.
I think I’ve touched on the most important points.
cay
Be well, John!
SIA
OK who put up the link to the Shiba Inu puppies? I now can not stop watching this. SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
http://www.ustream.tv/sfshiba
eemom
@Jean:
Oh the pain. The pain.
I live in this worthless state that elected that glorified Pat Robertson wannabe, and I really do not think I can endure to listen to his SOTU response. It’s bad enough to live with the knowledge that he’s the fucking governor.
Alex S.
Spending freeze in exchange for reconciliation?
The spending will be frozen at the levels of Obama’s projected budget and Paul Krugman liked that budget back then.
And I couldn’t help but think: “Let’s kick some ice!”
Anonsters
ROFL. I like how the length of “Civic Education, Close-Up Fellowships, and Academies for American History and Civics (3 Terminations), Department of Education” makes it so that “Department of Education” is on its own line.
That makes it look at first glance like they’re proposing to terminate the Department of Education. :D
Dave C
Would it be overly O-botish of me to caution that we might want to actually learn a thing or two about this proposed budget plan before we decide that it consists, more or less, entirely of hippies get punched in the kidney?
jwb
@General Winfield Stuck: Yes, but then you look at Gingrich’s document and you see that he has nothing, so, you know, why remind everyone of how stupid you are when your opponents are doing such a good job of beating themselves to a pulp? Gingrich never was one who knew when to shut up—I suppose that’s why the TV likes him so much.
Alex S.
Well, and I guess that Tunch gets the custody of Lilly.
jwb
@Dave C: You’re not getting into the spirit of things. Must scream “the sky is falling” and “Rahmbama sold us out.”
Jim
@rootless_e: don’t forget the commenters, where the screaming PUMAs assure us that President Hillary Kucinich would have passed single payer, ended both wars, passed an eleventy gazillion dollar stimulus package!
FlipYrWhig
@Dave C: Fair enough. Can we still add the hippie-punching in reconciliation?
bago
@Ailuridae: Programs terminated in 2010 are terminated in 2011… 2012… 2013… You get the idea.
Nick
@Notorious P.A.T.:
First off, he is increasing it…the freeze is based on the 2011 budget for 2012 and 2013 and second off, the 2010 budget saw a dramatic increase in spending and so will 2011. By 2012, the economy should, in theory, be fine with the increase in spending we put in place, so no increase would be needed and third, and this is what really ticks me off about liberals when they stand dumbfounded by how they lost on the “tax and spend” label, throwing a blank check with an extra zero at the problem doesn’t necessarily fix it. If the Republicans are smart on one thing, it’s that spending should be responsible. Yes, I agree in times of economic crisis, we need to increase spending, we did that, but we also need to spend responsibly (something the GOP preaches and does not practice). I see nothing wrong with Obama increasing spending when applicable and then being responsible when applicable.
You wanted populist, you got it.
Dave C
@FlipYrWhig:
Actually, I’m pretty sure that the Senate already has 60+ pro-hippie-punching votes lined up, so reconciliation will not be necessary.
rootless_e
@Jim:
the key is to be able to segue smoothly from “I told you Mr. Empty Suit wasn’t fit to be Miz Hillary’s lawn jockey, I knew it all along” to “I believed in that Hope and Change and have had my illusions crushed like flowers under a, a , well a bus.”
If you can’t do that pivot while holding a strong pout, you cannot work in that league.
Ailuridae
@Brian J:
Yeah, DeLong misunderstood it but I think I understood it correctly. 2012 and 2013 spending will be the same as 2011. So his job loss numbers are staggered a year assuming we are close to full employment in 2013 but any talk of a spending freeze prevents the federal government from doing what needs to be done – fill state coffers to prevent job losses. Those numbers the 2.5M to 3M jobs that state budget cuts are taking out of the job market on a per annum basis are enormous.
But even viewing it in a vacuum in the most optimistic scenario (I think there is a good chance we won’t see full employment to 2015) it still hurts the economy and even if it had a neutral effect on the economy its stupid fucking hand-waving. To address the debt and deficit long term will require the courage that the elder Bush showed in the late 80s. That means tax increases and much, much lesser defense spending.
I’ll say this if health care passes the net negatives of this spending are greatly minimized as the 40M per year in Medicaid will outweigh the cuts enacted by the freeze. But what would have been better is the two of them (and please 20B more per year in Medicaid funding) together.
Uriel
@freelancer:
My first reaction to this was trying to figure out if it was going to be a long rant about corporatists, the insurance industry or the current administration, and from which side.
Metaphors involving the digestive system and it’s by products have really been over-used lately.
AkaDad
@Dave C:
It would be irresponsible not to speculate.
Jean
@eemom: I live here too and couldn’t be more sick about the whole new administration. Cuccinelli makes McDonnell look like Pelosi. And the state Dems in the senate where they have a majority of 2 (probably soon to be 1 if the guv co-ops one of ’em) are mirroring the weakness of the national Dems.
Anonsters
As I said in a comment on the Beatings Will Continue thread, I suspect all you ultraleft-haters would have a very, very hard time defending Obama’s actions on national security-related issues. Since this appears to be a more light-hearted thread, I won’t crank up the emotion. But let’s just say that EPIC FAIL doesn’t even begin to describe what he’s failed to do on national security.
And he doesn’t need Congress for the most pressing reforms we need on national security issues. He could do it all within the Executive Branch. And yet, here we are.
valdivia
hold on a sec: the OMB produced 3 sets of budgets months ago and they have been considering this for a while and now this is being read as “Obama in full panic mode” WTF? I am waiting to hear what this is about before jumping in the we are doomed bandwagon.
Brian J
On another note, here’s Jon Zasloff finding the silver lining in Beau Biden not running in Delaware: a progressive candidate in Chris Coon. I know nothing about this man and his chances to hold the seat for the Democrats, but as I said earlier, we’ve got nine months to make a difference, and if he’s as good as Zasloff says he is, then we should get behind him.
rootless_e
@Anonsters:
Here’s the nub: I don’t consider “progressives” to be “left” let alone “ultra-left”. The difference between Al Giordano and Dave Sirota is that Al has a worked out political point of view that can reasonably be called “leftist” and Sirota has a bunch of bullet points that don’t add up to much more than self-promotion and dyspepsia.
Brian J
@Ailuridae:
Um, what you said?
I don’t mean that as an insult. You make good points. It’s just that I keep being pulled back and forth between being outraged and not giving up hope/waiting until I hear what he has to say in a more specific way.
Which won’t be until tomorrow, at the earliest. Maybe not until the speech itself, which is on Wednesday. So I guess I should just go to bed.
Martin
@General Winfield Stuck:
Well, yeah, they have their narrow interests as well. The best thing the GOP has going for them is that’ve sold themselves out to very few groups – fundamentalists, big business, the NRA. The Democrats have 100 different interests they’re sold out too, and those often find themselves at odds with each other.
In light of the Supreme Court ruling (which has me down more than the HCR stuff, because I’m still convinced the Dems will find their ass given there are 400 hands searching for it) I suggest that Congress adopt NASCAR rules. Unlimited corporate sponsorship, but you have to wear that on you at all times, so Lieberman can take all the Aetna dollars he wants, but he needs to wear the Aetna logo emblazoned on the back, chest, and each sleeve of his Senatorial jumpsuit when he’s addressing Congress and doing the Sunday shows. I think in this way, corporations will aim for brand exclusivity rather than shoveling small sums.
So, my rules are this:
Members of Congress must wear their approved legislative jumpsuit and cap while in Congress or while speaking as a member of Congress. If your name on TV or a program gets a Sen or Rep or (D) near it, you gotta have the suit on. The suit will have specific regions for sponsorship – the most visible locations as noted above. Those regions must be 90% covered by sponsorship with each sponsor region proportionate to their contribution level. If 50% of your money came from GM, GM must cover 50% of the filled regions.
I think these rules help the Dems. They’ll be significantly less conflicted when pretending to speak in favor of financial reform while having ‘Citicorp’ in 8″ high letters stretching across their chest.
Calming Influence
@SIA: Already in.
Alex S.
Spending freeze: no more handouts to big corporations! Yay!
Well, and it will discipline Congress. It’s time for Obama to get the veto out. All the House members who want to get re-elected better vote for health-care reform before they propose some kind of earmark for their districts.
Anonsters
@rootless_e:
Nonetheless, it’s people like Glennzilla and FDL who are and have been calling bullshit on Obama for the national security failures, while everyone else gives him a pass (for what reason, God only knows, because after 3 months of no-action, we were told give him time; after 6 months, it’s complicated, he needs to study it; after a year? It’s not polite table conversation, dear; the Republicans might overhear).
The Republic of Stupidity
@Anonsters:
Indeed… if only Obama would start prancing around in a flight suit w/ matching codpiece under a big banner declaring “MISSION MISACCOMPLISHED“… we’d all feel safer… well… at least some of us would… well… mebbe YOU would…
Ailuridae
@Nick:
By 2012, the economy should, in theory, be fine with the increase in spending we put in place, so no increase would be needed and third, and this is what really ticks me off about liberals when they stand dumbfounded by how they lost on the “tax and spend” label, throwing a blank check with an extra zero at the problem doesn’t necessarily fix it.
Nobody, but nobody is suggesting that we will approach full employment by 2012 (that’s 23 months away). The demand gap in the economy is far, far greater than the stimulus plus the jobs bill plus the additional spending in the health care bill.
While it may be true that untargeted spending does not ensure growth it is certainly true that cutting spending slows economic recoveries. This isn’t really debatable outside of the nutjob Austrian school/Hayek folks. Not letting spending grow with inflation in 2012 will cost people jobs
Also, can we place a wager on whether the 2011 budget sees a drastic increase in spending over 2010? Or did you mean over 2009 or 2008?
Calming Influence
Also John, while you’re still up: in case you lose blood flow to your brain for too long and end up drooling or worse, please make sure you designate someone to frequently post current pictures of Tunch and Lilly. Just in case.
rootless_e
@Anonsters:
By golly SIX whole months? I expected the empire to be converted to a mixed day-care/flower-garden by now. The Democratic voters rejected the department of peace candidate resoundingly and applauded as Hillary, Obama, and Mr. Handsome argued over who would put the most troops into Afghanistan fastest.
Did I hallucinate all that?
Nick
@Ailuridae:
It doesn’t have to be full employment for the economy to have recovered…I think the estimates put unemployment at around 7% in 2012 and dropping. If that’s the case, there really is no need for increasing spending. It means the spending level we’re at is optimal.
Zach
To be fair, it is sort of ironic that a plan to finally pass healthcare that was sold as avoiding all of Clinton’s mistakes is being abandoned to throw a bone to the fiscal responsibility concern trolls (cf welfare reform). I’m hoping this is part of a broader strategy to distract from getting healthcare through reconciliation.
Now here’s a brilliant plan:
1. Announce plan to immediately get discretionary freeze legislation through Congress… before debating the budget.
2. Announce that this should also include modifications to the Senate’s healthcare bill since he’s identified some problem with it that can conveniently both save money and put it in line with the Senate bill
3. Pass both as one bill through reconciliation
4. Watch the GOP deal with having to either vote for health reform or vote against something that’s been the main component of every nonsense budget that’s come out of their ass over the past two years… ditto for the Bayh/Nelson block: you asked for a spending freeze, the health component saves money, what’s the problem?
I guess the WH hasn’t giving up on egging on liberals to appear moderate. I don’t know that there’s any evidence that the impression that Obama isn’t moderate is driven entirely by tea party fiction. Needs to do a better job explaining how what he’s already done is very good and not try and pretend that there’s some actual course correction that necessary, policy-wise.
Nellcote
@FlipYrWhig:
Maybe it goes back to potty training issues.
eemom
regardless of the merits of this “spending freeze” or whatever it is — WTF is he doing that NOW, instead of focusing on finishing HCR?? Looks suspiciously like a desperate ploy to curry favor with the ignorant ilk of those who voted for Scott Brown last week to me.
Nick
@rootless_e:
WIN!
Anonsters
@The Republic of Stupidity:
I don’t even know what that’s supposed to mean.
Among the national security failures I was talking about: GITMO is still going strong, there appears to be an on-going cover-up of what appear to be three murders (or at least three deaths under very suspicious circumstances), the administration has continued to aggressively assert state secret and national security privileges before courts all around the country, etc. etc.
I’ll feel safer when the government no longer has the “national security” mantra to invoke for doing just about whatever the fuck it wants, civil liberties be damned.
The Republic of Stupidity
@AkaDad:
Oh Gawd… that’s WAY TOO EASY…
And bonus points for…
Calming Influence
Also John: has anyone called dibs on your car yet? If not, DIBS!
Again, just in case. You know I’m pulling for you.
Brick Oven Bill
During work at The Facility today, while walking around in circles, I have determined that I would like to take Rachel Maddow out to lunch.
Anonsters
@rootless_e:
I guess you hallucinated where “concentrating on Afghanistan” meant continued indefinite detentions, aggressive state secrets privilege claims, aggressive national security claims in courts, etc.
Anonsters
BTW, best part of that budget document is the line in the Table of Contents under “Other Savings:”
Office Supplies and Computer Software, Department of Homeland Security……………………………….111
I think someone over at DHS is stealing staplers.
Calming Influence
OMG B.O.B.! Are we witnessing a breakthrough? Because I think she likes you, and would be willing to go out with you as long as you promise to take your meds.
Jim
Red Swingline Staplers?
Ailuridae
@Brian J:
If there is a candidate that the netroots should be able to get behind Chris Coons (there is an s there). Because of Delaware’s unique geography Coons already represents a huge portion of the state’s population
arguingwithsignposts
@Notorious P.A.T.:
First off, I don’t think you mean freudian slip there. But the point is that journalists are supposed to get the Simple Shit right. Spelling the name of a president is simple. I comment ON A F**KING BLOG. I are pwning teh internets, dig? I’m not the chattering class when I’m commenting here. I can talk about the cancer that is killing (D) and it’s no big deal, because, you know what, I don’t have the full resources of Kaplan or NYT or Salon behind me. If Glenn (two ‘n’s) Greenwald did the same, I’d call him on that bullsh*t too.
Because THEY ARE THE ESTABLISHMENT, goddammit! Perhaps I expect a little more since my real nym is constantly misspelled by people who *reply to my e-mails.*
/nym rant. have some kitty to tide you over
Jim
@Nick
Here’s where we differ, I think the responsible thing would be to raise revenues to cover government expenditures rather than cutting the services, jobs, research, and safeguards that result from government spending. I’m not a populist, I’m a progressive, I believe government, paid for by a progressive tax system, is in general a good thing.
A spending freeze only differs in practice from a spending cut if you assume the cost of everything in 2012-2013 will be identical to what everything cost in 2011. I doubt that will be the case.
The Republic of Stupidity
@Anonsters:
Actually… I think you do… and I also think you’re only here to be a little stone prick. The incoming admin was left the mess of the millenia by the outgoing one, and you’re here harping because all of this hasn’t been accomplished in a year’s time?
Of course… one could always wonder… are you so disappointed because you’re so ultra-ultra left… which doesn’t seem to be the case… or are you someone who was sniffing the Bush Codpiece for all it was worth and are desperately trying to find some way to alleviate the sense of abject humiliation the utter failure of the Bush Admin brought down on you and yours?
I’m not sure what “ultra-left haters” is supposed to mean…
Care to explain it? Please… do…
Kineslaw
@freelancer:
True, but 8 eight operations in 12 months gave me some expertise here. I always noticed a difference. I talked with a doctor about this, and she was frustrated more surgeons didn’t tell their patients this.
The trick is to stop drinking fluids 4-5 hours before surgery. They always tell you midnight because it is easier for them and you, but it isn’t particularly accurate.
valdivia
again, a bunch of people think Obama dreamed this up yesterday or over the weekend because of some crisis. Is Obama not only the messiah but also a seer? that he asked his Budget people way way before any of this to set a budget that planned for this in case the sky fell? Stop inferring causation. We DO NOT know what is in this policy, we DO NOT know how it fits with the rest of the speech, we DO NOT know he is abandoning HCR over this thing. So take a deep breath, and wait to hear what he has to say. Is it not enough that we were told by Pouffle and by Obama himself on friday that we had to get HCR done? Now because of little hints about a certain policy the end is near? This fucking cycle of freaking out never ends and now people are fucking projecting their own freaks outs on to Obama. Do you people have any PROOF that he is in panic mode? he seemed angry to me on Fri but not panicked. This is the guy who never panics, remember? This is why people have been angry at him for months now because he never shows enough emotion when they want him to?
/rant over.
mcd410x
TNC has a great quote from George Wallace about why he switched from a liberal-minded judge to staunch segregationist:
The politics of hate are strong …
Nellcote
@Uriel:
No shit!
Mary G
I’ve had a knee replaced, a hip replaced and some nerves cut out of my wrist in the last couple of years and the surgeries all went great and helped so much. I hope the same happens for you.
You hate the pain pills, but taking them about an hour before the physical terrorist comes is a Really Good Idea.
Thoughts and prayers. Eat and drink something nice in the next half hour.
rootless_e
@Anonsters: Didn’t you see during the campaign who his advisers were?
Nick
@Jim:
Discretionary does not include jobs, services, research and safeguards.
General Winfield Stuck
@eemom: he has always promised to cut waste spending from his campaign on. HCR has taken up 6 months of political oxygen. The House will either pass the senate bill or not, the senate will either agree to use reconc. to fix it’s bill if the House passes it or not.
Obama is not going to jump away from helping those in need, and will be laying out a number of different programs in the SOTU for that purpose. There are tons of duplicative programs and wasteful ones in the fed government. I have always been a deficit hawk, though I differ from what wingers want to cut spending on. From what we know he is not going to cut vital social programs, and I personally don’t think more stimulus will speed up economic recovery. It is repairing itself largely and recalibrating for new realities. It takes time for a recession this deep turn around.
For my own purpose, the first Stimulus and it’s investment in long term progressive goals has been the crowning achievement of his first year, and of any first year of any president since the great depression. Of course, he only gets blasted by his internet base (and I use that term loosely) joined with the wingnuts for their own differing reasons, but the effect is the same.
nepat
What happens when we decide that Twitter uses too many words?
Tax Analyst
@ #272 Calming Influence
Now be nice to BOB. Unless he’s going to start stalking Rachel I don’t see any harm in this.
Wile E. Quixote
@suzanne
When I came to after my leg was amputated I noticed that the doctors had written “left leg, below knee amputation” on my left thigh. On the one hand I appreciated the extra effort on their part to avoid a horrible mistake but on the other hand I thought that any doctor who couldn’t have looked at my two legs and figured out which one needed to be amputated probably shouldn’t be practicing medicine.
General Winfield Stuck
@valdivia: we obots are dwindling in number here. I like to read your comments, brings me some comfort.:)
AkaDad
@valdivia:
Your rant just freaked me out.
Tax Analyst
@ #286 nepat
Maybe it becomes “itter” or “witte” or something ??
Brian J
@Ailuridae:
So then the potential to hold the seat might actually be higher than I first thought?
valdivia
@General Winfield Stuck:
What you said. All of it. Many times.
ETA1: I see general that we are Obots together. :)
ETA2:@AkaDad: oy. didn’t mean to.
Anonsters
@The Republic of Stupidity:
No, really, I don’t know what the fuck you’re saying.
I honestly, honestly can’t tell, because you seem only able to speak in weird metaphors and code language that I am, confessedly, not up on.
The most I could get out of your latest post was that you apparently think I’m a crypto-Republican. Which, I admit, makes me laugh a little.
And yes, I expect, after a year in office, that Obama will no longer be making precisely the same legal claims before courts that Bush did. It doesn’t take a year to figure out how to scale back the most aggressive state secrets privilege claims in one’s court submissions in national security cases. It doesn’t take a year to figure out how not to argue before a court from the same executive power theory that your predecessor used.
See this recent ACLU report (PDF warning):
http://www.aclu.org/files/pages/americaunrestored_11_20100119.pdf
Anonsters
@rootless_e:
So now the standard is not what the candidate says he is committed to doing, but who the candidate’s advisors are?
Alex S.
@nepat:
Does Atrios have a Twitter account?
Tax Analyst
@ #288 Wile E. Coyote said:
Good thing you were facing up instead of down, huh?
Sadly, there have been documented screw-ups of this nature. I think the last one I heard about happened in Florida in the last couple of years.
eemom
@General Winfield Stuck:
I hope you’re right.
I really don’t WANT to turn in my Obot card, ya know. It’s been kinda nice believing in someone for a change.
sparky
good luck John, and i hope your establishment has the same number of critters upon your return home (either that or a tunch crime spree cam, perhaps?)
Jim
@ Nick
“Discretionary spending is what the President and the Congress decide to spend through annual appropriations bills. Examples include money for such activities as the FBI, the Coast Guard, housing and education, space exploration, highway construction, defense, and foreign aid. ”
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/rewrite/budget/fy2004/glossary.html
Yeah, no jobs, services, research and safeguards there. Who needs things like NASA, the FBI, the FDA, infrastructure, and education anyway.
Tim
C’mon. Clearly if anything happens it’s because Tunch got hungry and ate John.
Calming Influence
It hurts me to say this, but I can’t believe how insensitive you all are. John has at best a 50/50 chance of pulling through tomorrow and you people are bickering about politics.
eemom
@Wile E. Quixote:
I think that there are hospital rules about making those kind of markings before surgery. My doctor actually put his initials on the back of my neck where I was operated on.
A small precaution to prevent a potentially catastrophic fuck up. The malpractice insurers probably insist on it.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
There’s another Jim here, so I’m bringing in my nym from the Swampland blog, just for clarity
Brick Oven Bill
Here is a haiku for Rachel. The retail value of this haiku is $20. It is a gift.
Your essence.
Perhaps destiny will join.
My touch.
Before the police show up outside the house, this is inspirational, and I am not a stalker.
Anonsters
BTW, big props to Obama for planning on cutting the F-22 after 2009, as well as some of the Future Combat System bullshit.
Now the question is, will Congress go along with that? Those are big $$$ that would go missing from certain congressional districts.
That they’re a giant fucking black hole for money never seems to occur to our oh-so-wise Congress.
rootless_e
@Anonsters: You are new to the concept that politicians don’t always tell the truth? In any case, Obama has tried to close Gitmo, he has declared no torture, he has (at huge political cost) moved people to civilian courts.
Ailuridae
I don’t think there is much of chance to hold the seat to be honest. But if progressives can put a candidate into office through superior ground games and tactics Delaware would be a good place to do it. Castle is, deservedly, well-liked and respected there but he is establishment and has tacked aggressively to the right as the state continues a move to the left.
Now, if Castle were to somehow lose that primary to a wingnut well its a likely a walk in the park for the Democratic nominee.
t jasper parnel
@Ailuridae: That’s not quite right on page 4 there is a list of manditory terminations and reductions through 2019.
Nick
@Jim: That’s a very vague definition of what discretionary spending is, so let me give you the definition as someone who covered the Appropriations legislation at the New Jersey Capitol for many years…
…an example of discretionary spending would be, say, personalized softball shirts for the HHS vs. Education softball game, or new logos for the FDA.
Another words, it’s what we commonly refer to as pork.
freelancer (itouch)
@Uriel:
That amused the shit out of me. I suppose you could read a subtext into surgery advice a la Hemingway and his Nick Adams short stories.
eemom
@Brick Oven Bill:
er, BoB, you do know that Rachel’s gay, right?
Don’t take it personally.
Wile E. Quixote
@Elisabeth
I don’t see what the problem here is. Frederick Roosevelt was one of our greatest presidents, along with the father of our country, Gomer Washington. Timothy Jefferson, the architect of liberty. Absalom Lincoln, who ended slavery and preserved the Union and Frederick Roosevelt’s cousin, Terence, who created the national park system.
I’m worried that if this report is accurate that our current president, Bartholomew Howard Obama, is going to end up being the black Jeremy Carter.
Anonsters
I think I would actually purchase the Cheney shredding documents snow globe:
http://www.americathegiftshop.com
Brian J
@Ailuridae:
As I said earlier, we have nine months. That doesn’t mean we’re guaranteed to hold the seat, but if the underlying dynamics are there, as you suggest they are, then we have a lot of time to try. The same goes for the races in a lot of states.
freelancer (itouch)
wow, I think we just glimpsed BOB’s epitaph.
Davis X. Machina
Late to the game, but rootless_e FTW…
Has any metaphor ever done more damage than the one that insists that we ‘run the government like a business’, or that we need to sit around the national kitchen table every month and balance our budget?
Just because something is simple and intuitive doesn’t make it right. It depends on what your presuppositions are. If you accept the humoral theory of medicine, then bleeding fever patients is simple and intuitive.
It’s also lethal.
Calming Influence
@Brick Oven Bill:
A Fucking HAIKU, Bill? That’s it. Alright, I claim the right to point out the exact moment where Brick Oven Bill reveals himself as (one of) John’s multiple personalities. John is worried that he’s checking out tomorrow and is leaving us a painfully obvious hint.
All I have to say is this: long live Brick Oven Bill.
Brick Oven Bill
I have had a ‘lesbian’ give me lots and lots of hugs eemom. In my opinion, this condition is potentially transient. My goal is a simple and respectful lunch, which I will pay for, as the gentleman I am.
Wile E. Quixote
@Tax Analyst
I asked one of the doctors about this and he said it was for exactly that reason that they did it. There was a Florida case in the 80s or 90s where a patient with damage to his legs from diabetes had the wrong leg amputated. As I recall the hospital’s defense was something along the lines of “well they both looked pretty awful and he was probably going to lose the other one anyways” which, as I recall, didn’t work out too well for them at the trial.
Ailuridae
@Jim:
This.
Also, according to
ArvidOMB pooh-bah Peter Orszag non-discretionary defense spending was already at historic lows relative to GDP for the first budget they presented (and that we are operating under)http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/blog/09/03/13/FairandSquareNDDSpendingtoHistoricLows/
Tax Analyst
@ #311 eemom
Perhaps BOB’s attraction to Rachel is more spiritual than carnal.
Yeah, OK…maybe I need to find those meds…I know they’re around here somewhere.
Jim
@Nick
The Federal Budget consists of mandatory, and discretionary spending, what you’re claiming is softball shirts and logos is ~40% of the entire budget. It’s basically everything that isn’t SS, Medicare and debt service.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_United_States_federal_budget
http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/01/25/obama.spending.freeze/index.html
Calming Influence
I understand, Bill. Like yourself, I am also a lesbian trapped in a man’s body. You’re among friends here; we never judge.
Jean
@valdivia: I’m in the same camp with you and Stuck. Now we are three.
handy
@Calming Influence:
I thought DougJ was BOB.
Tax Analyst
@ #320 Wile E. Coyote said:
Yeah, and it was probably scant consolation to the patient as well.
Maybe that was the same case I was referring to…if so I was only off 20 or 30 years.
Time flies when you’re off your meds.
t jasper parnel
@Jean: Four
Anne Laurie
@Notorious P.A.T.:
Sumbunny needz hug naow, plz!
colby
“Yeah, no jobs, services, research and safeguards there. Who needs things like NASA, the FBI, the FDA, infrastructure, and education anyway.”
Yeah, he shouldn’t get rid of all those things!
Oh, he’s not? In fact, he’s gonna increase education funding?
What are we talking about again?
freelancer (itouch)
@handy:
I thought we were all DougJ.
Wile E. Quixote
<p
@eemom
That makes sense, but I’m still trying to figure out what was going on that one time when I woke up and my surgeon’s name was written on my back along with a phone number and a heart with an arrow through it that said “Call me”. Plus I was all sticky.
Nick
@Jim: and?
handy
@freelancer (itouch):
Shhhhh! Don’t say that out loud. People might be lurking here.
valdivia
@Jean:
the more the merrier :)
I really cannot understand how every single person with a blog is reading the budget freeze thing as a consequence of something that happened last week when this has been planned for some time now. Orzag and Obama now with Time Travel! Because of the sour mood of this week people look at this budget thing and see doom everywhere instead of trying to see how the pieces fit together. But this is the same point General Stuck made much more eloquently upthread.
nepat
@Tax Analyst:
Re Twitter – I was being rhetorical. We’re already there. Spending freeze! Public option! Gitmo! Socialist! Sell out!
And the penultimate post-Twitter tweet: ACORN!
Micro-micro-blogging is here! Here!
Tax Analyst
@ #332 Wile E. Quixote:
Well, that’s a lot more respectful than, “Property of Dr. _____ ________” tattooed across your buttocks.
Now where did I put those blasted meds?
Steeplejack
@Cole:
Sending healing energy your way. Stay frosty, and don’t try to do too much too soon. The healing will take time.
sgrAstar
Good luck tomorrow, fearless leader. The Obot division may be dwindling in number, but we’re proud.
Mike in NC
B.o.B. is probably cool with that since he mostly judges women by the amount of body hair they possess.
Jim
@ Nick
Seriously, “and?” — that’s your response to me telling you you’ve confused NASA, FDA, HHS, DOE, etc with softball shirts? I think we’re done.
@ Colby
I was talking about not being happy with the idea of a freeze to what I consider to be the most progressive elements of domestic spending and foreign aid. What were you talking about?
Ailuridae
@t jasper parnel:
No it is indeed quite right. Looking at the 2010 budget cuts to ascertain what level the 2011, 2012 and 2013 budgets will be set at is, totally irrelevant. Additionally as Obama, Orszag et al already cut a lot of the low-hanging fruit listed in that budget there isn’t a ton of easy stuff to cut.
Again the whole pie here once you take all of the qualifiers into account (its not even all of non-discretionary defense spending) is about 445B and thats about 1/8th of the budget. This is, at best, a political tactic that doesn’t address the deficit. At worst its cutting spending when spending needs to be increased to meet a substantial demand gap.
Max
@Jean: Four! I’m still an O-bot.
See the linky to confirm that this was part of his campaign plan, i.e. scalpel not hatchet, as McCain wanted across-the-board freezes.
http://www.oliverwillis.com/2010/01/25/obama-proposing-freeze-on-discretionary-spending/
mcd410x
@General Winfield Stuck: When Cole does it, it’s funny. When you do it, it says “I’m trying to be one of the cool kids.”
You know what would really be cool, not lumping progressives in with the Hamsher crowd. Some are, most have no idea what you’re talking about, or who Hamsher is.
And if that’s what Jane wants to do, that’s her thing. Who cares? It doesn’t affect me in the slightest. Why are you making it your thing?
Calming Influence
@handy:
No, DougJ is Tim F. Dennis G. is Anne Laurie, and Wile E. Quixote is Elisabeth. Try to keep up.
valdivia
@Max:
thanks for the linky.
robertdsc-PowerBook & 27 titles
Fixed.
Zach
@Tax Analyst:
Wrong site surgery is one of the most common and most preventable major errors in hospitals. The best way to prevent it is asking the patient who they are (in a language they can understand) and what they are in the operating room for. The next best thing to do is to label everything.
Go read The Best Care Anywhere by Phillip Longman (either the article or the full length book) to see what the VA did to drastically reduce these types of errors (and drug dispensing errors, etc). When you’re done reading, cry because of how stupid it is that we can’t have a functioning system for everyone in the country when we already have one for the most challenging population in the country to treat.
Anne Laurie
@Anonsters:
Or the improved, experimental updates to the TSA full-body scanners. Why go through the tedium of a standard colonoscopy, when you can get the same information in the comfort of your own home? (/snark)
t jasper parnel
@Ailuridae: The cuts listed in the budget include things like money for the next generation of bombers, the next generation of nuclear warheads, lasers for the airforce, cotton subsidies, tax breaks for the oil companies and so forth. All of which, if enacted, will have serious downstream results on the percentage of the budget tied up in bad investments that, if the world works the way I want it to — which it doesn’t — means that I will get a pony. And that the budget, as written, has effects past 2010
colby
“I was talking about not being happy with the idea of a freeze to what I consider to be the most progressive elements of domestic spending and foreign aid.”
Hmm, I’m not so sure. ‘Cause you can express that opinion without acting like NASA, the FBI, the FDA, infrastructure, and education were going to be completely cut…and you were DEFINITELY doing that…
Ailuridae
@valdivia:
To be clear I don’t think the decision to institute a spending freeze has anything to do with the MA Senate race. My objection to it is that, solely as a thing in itself, its a stupid fucking idea.
Wile E. Quixote
@Calming Influence
Yeah, it wasn’t always that way, but there was that time I went in for surgery and forgot to get a Sharpie and write “don’t cut here” on my yam sack and well…
Jean
@valdivia: Yep. I’m running out of stuff to stop watching or reading just in order to keep calm and avoid the hyperventilating out there. There’s too much over-reaction and too much prejudgment. People are drawing conclusions about whole strategy or about motivation from 24 hour news cycles, and even a stupid twitter.
t jasper parnel
@Ailuridae: I agree that a freeze is a bad idea, but the cuts listed aren’t or, at least, not all of them are. I suspect, but could not prove, that lots of the cuts will be restored and discretionary spending will continue to grow. But who knows.
Calming Influence
@Brick Oven Bill:
A “Hiaku” for you:
Poor Brick Oven Bill
His love addled brain can’t count
Five seven five, dude.
FlipYrWhig
@valdivia:
Laziness. And not wanting to miss the Outrage Bandwagon. Because, you know, it might not come back until the next time Chuck Todd misunderstands something, and you don’t want to be deprived of those endorphins for as long as 4 minutes.
Jim
@ Colby
I think you’ve taken my back and forth with Nick over what is covered in the freeze out of context. I never claimed anything would be completely cut, here’s what I did say:
I don’t read that the way you apparently read that. I didn’t say “cutting completley”, I said cutting. Less money for programs = cuts to programs. I’d rather those programs were supplemented, not cut — even a little.
handy
So what’s the bottom line here, peeps? Is Obama well on his way to being “Worst. Democratic. President. Ever?”
I, like a lot of people here I suspect, was all Hopey and Changey in November 2008. But if he’s seriously proposing this spending freeze, how is he really different from the other guy he defeated? What else does he have up his sleeve? “America, here’s how we’re going to right the ship–TAX CUTS!”
Or maybe I’m just cranky from this head cold.
bago
Well, at least two more people have read the budget. @Ailuridae: Care to comment on which terminations and reductions you think are a poor decision? Please copy and paste the reasoning from the budget proposal and construct an argument for each one you disagree with.
Or you can be the flipside of a teabagger and just declare all spending good.
Ailuridae
@t jasper parnel:
I understand that. But those programs are already out of the 2010 budget. A spending freeze for 2011-2013 withing the limited scope of non-discretionary defense spending would mean that the programs that would receive less in real dollar funding in 2013 than 2011 (and a spending freeze is just a spending cut that ignores inflation) will have to be programs that aren’t on the list of programs cut from the 2010 budget. Again, the low-hanging fruit is already gone; the link in question showed where the low-hanging fruit was.
Church Lady
Good luck with your surgery, John. I hope your recovery is swift and as painless as possible.
handy
@Calming Influence:
Thank you.
Ailuridae
@bago:
The budget you linked is the 2010 budget not the 2011 budget. The spending freeze is freezing spending for 2012 and 2013 at 2011 levels. Pointing to the 2010 budget sheds no light on the wisdom of that decision.
freelancer (itouch)
@Calming Influence:
This seems analogous:
http://americandigest.org/mt-archives/rock_paper_scissors_spock_lizard.gif
Wile E. Quixote
@Tax Analyst
Well that happened once, but it was at the optometrists. Weird. I never knew that you needed a general anesthetic for an eye exam.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Well, instead of cutting taxes for the rich, Obama is trying to increase them. The spending limits are much more targeted. The freeze will be based on increased spending levels that were increased where McCain would’ve cut them. They’re going to be instituted after an $850 billion dollar stimulus package that McCain wouldn’t have proposed.
I’m not necessarily happy about the idea of spending freezes, but I’m waiting to see what changes are actually proposed, and this “he’s just like McCain” stuff is just silly.
Jules
Obama’s scalpel?
If anything this will force the Republicans to step up or admit they are really only interested in making sure anything the President does fails.
Karen
Wishing you good luck tomorrow!
valdivia
@Ailuridae:
I am glad to hear that, I really don’t mind debating the merits of this but hate the political strategery speculations. On the other hand I want to wait to talk about the policy itself though because as MattY said in his post, this has to do with the release of the Budget and whoever was on the call said this is just ONE piece of it. Orzag and his team have been seriously working on getting the deficit down. I thought this was a good idea? and think that when we see the whole thing we will know how this works. What I find frustrating is how pavlovian the response is to anything that comes from the WH these days–yell and scream without having the actual details (I guess we will hear next that Orzag is the new Rahm ? Maybe his CNBC girlfriend made him do this?). I guess some people thought Obama was not serious about the deficit even when his 2010 budget did a lot of interesting things, especially in defense spending.
@FlipYrWhig:
it seems to me that the outrages are coming fast one after the other so why anyone would think they are going to miss their chance is beyond me!
Tax Analyst
@ #347 Zach –
Thanks. I’m going home now, but I’ll look into tomorrow.
Night’all.
General Winfield Stuck
@mcd410x: Like I give a shit what you think. If not being a whiny brat neck deep in ignorance and self promotion makes me “a cool kid” then so be it. I just want to support a dem president and not go looking for the shit to criticize him for with wanking drivel to be found in about every corner of the nutroots. How cool is that? There are only a few like me here but you keep whining about how mean I am to your awesome selves and delicate hurt feelings.
Now kindly piss off.
edit – and quit calling yourself “progressives” which you are not. Ideological liberal is what those are who sully that fine word.
Calming Influence
@freelancer (itouch):
Actually it’s like 3D Rock-Paper-Scissors-Lizard-Spock, but more complicated.
t jasper parnel
@Ailuridae: The Budget linked exist. The spending freeze is rumor and speculation.
eemom
just for the record, I SAID I don’t WANT to turn in my Obot card.
I am still hoping for the best.
Hope for the best but prepare for the worst, as Bernard Franklin once said.
Calming Influence
@freelancer (itouch):
And General Winfield Stuck is always the Lizard.
FlipYrWhig
@valdivia:
Well, what Heraclitus said about rivers is true about torrents of trumped-up political outrage. You never step into the same one twice.
colby
@ Jim
No, but you acted like someone was proposing that (which would, in fairness, be a stupid idea). I mean, here’s what ELSE you did say:
That’s really not arguing whether those things are or aren’t discretionary spending. It’s a fun little zinger, but really only to an argument no one made.
Calming Influence
@eemom:
I believe you mean Benjamin Frankenstein.
FlipYrWhig
It sounds to me like this whole kerfuffle is based upon the single word, “freeze.”
Jim
@ Ailuridae
I just saw this, thanks.
That’s the problem in a nutshell. Less isn’t good when you’re starting from historic lows.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@FlipYrWhig:
ding ding ding ding ding ding
FlipYrWhig
@Calming Influence:
He was known for his experiments with lightning.
General Winfield Stuck
@Calming Influence: Poor baby, am I influencing your calm. Good.
The Raven
May you heal well.
Martin
The move by Obama to restrain spending isn’t there to appease the right, it’s there to appease moderate Dems and and key Republicans to help them come election time. It’ll be very targeted but sold very broadly. Obama is laying the foundation for the year’s legislation – trying to keep guys like Nelson on board and get the lone GOP to not filibuster.
That people have now seen the process and challenges with HCR legislation and not realized that some of these steps would be needed to get financial reform, cap & trade or any other energy/emissions policy, etc. is pretty shortsighted. That’s doubly true today if the agenda threatens corporate dollars to campaign coffers because you know that every financial reform supporter will have an opponent in 2010 with essentially unlimited dollars from Wall Street. The votes lost to those extra campaign dollars need to come from somewhere.
Jim
@ Colby
Nick made the argument, he responded to my long-ish post above by saying:
I responded with the zinger you quoted. Yes, I wasn’t clear in that and subsequent posts what my initial point was — people usually aren’t. Do you get where I’m coming from now?
WaterGirl
The tone of the comments on BJ seems so different from what it was just 3 weeks ago. The ratio of (fun + smart + snark) to (suspicion + panic + despair) has really changed.
Is this just a blip on the chart, something that happens from time to time, or do you guys think something actually changed?
Ailuridae
@t jasper parnel:
Ughh. Nobody is arguing the merits of the budget for 2010 or the necessary cuts that were made. The 2010 budget is a budget written after the obvious fat has been trimmed.
When one is talking about non-discretionary spending here is the affected departments.
Discretionary spending: $1.21 trillion (+4.9%)
$515.4 billion – United States Department of Defense$145.2 billion(2008*) – Global War on Terror$70.4 billion – United States Department of Health and Human Services
$45.4 billion – United States Department of Education
$44.8 billion – United States Department of Veterans Affairs$38.5 billion – United States Department of Housing and Urban Development
$38.3 billion – State and
Other International Programs$37.6 billion – United States Department of Homeland Security$25.0 billion – United States Department of Energy
$20.8 billion – United States Department of Agriculture
$20.3 billion – United States Department of Justice
$17.6 billion – National Aeronautics and Space Administration
$12.5 billion – United States Department of the Treasury
$11.5 billion – United States Department of Transportation
$10.6 billion – United States Department of the Interior
$10.5 billion – United States Department of Labor
$8.4 billion – Social Security Administration$7.1 billion – United States Environmental Protection Agency
$6.9 billion – National Science Foundation
$6.3 billion – Judicial branch (United States federal courts)
$4.7 billion – Legislative branch (United States Congress)
$4.7 billion – United States Army Corps of Engineers
$0.4 billion – Executive Office of the President
$0.7 billion – Small Business Administration
$7.2 billion – Other agencies
$39.0 billion(2008*) – Other Off-budget Discretionary Spending
I’ve struck through the qualifiers I received from Yglesias (The freeze would not apply to the Department of Defense, the Department of Veterans Affairs, the Department of Homeland Security, or to the foreign operations budget of the State Department)
So what this spending freeze means is that from 2011 through 2013 there will be roughly a 5% cut in real dollar funding some combination of those elements that are not stricken through. So, please stop suggesting that some wasteful military super soldier program will be cut, or that maybe this will be the impetus to stop the CIA from spying on ACORN. Those programs are not what is being talked about. Here are the major departments affected: non-USAID portions of State, Dept of State, Dept of Education, HUD, Energy, Agriculture, NASA and Justice.
SIA
@WaterGirl: Seems like there’s much more of an edge, and many new commenters (those 2 factors not necessarily linked). I put it down to Saturn square Pluto.
WaterGirl
Nicely done, both of you!
Ailuridae
@valdivia:
Look at my post a couple up. That’s where he is suggesting a 5% cut. Those are some of the leanest programs in the entire government and as I also mentioned in this thread they are already starting from historic lows relative to GDP.
Uriel
@arguingwithsignposts:
I see what you did there. WANT MOAR.
Deanu Deanu Deanu.
colby
@ Nick
No, he didn’t; “the argument” I was referring to was that such programs will or should be cut, and he didn’t say that anywhere in this thread, and certainly not in the quote you just cited.
Well, it’s not that you weren’t clear- in the previous posts and even at the beginning of that one, you were clearly talking about what is and is not discretionary spending- it’s just that after covering that ground, you moved on to “the zinger” (yay! Now we sound like a Seinfeld episode) that really only served to rebut a position no one was taking.
My bottom line is that a push back to the idea that those programs should be completely cut, or that all discretionary spending should be completely cut was really silly in this conversation (no matter how cleverly worded it was, and it was fairly cleverly worded) because simply no one was advancing that idea.
General Winfield Stuck
@WaterGirl: One of the last refuges in the left blogosphere has nearly been assimilated by so called progressives. That is the only real change other than the normal ebb and flow of political fortunes. A new dem president is having problems in the first year of his presidency, which has happened like clockwork for every new president since our founding. But now we have the internet to give voice to nihilists of the left. Which is the only other change, as it were.
And yes I am highly cranky, sosume.
Zach
Last thing on this: it’s sort of hilarious to keep pretending we can stay out of deficit when the social security deficit increases by many billions of dollars every year. This doesn’t mean social security is a problem (this shift was accounted for long ago), but that dipping into the social security surplus piggy bank isn’t a possibility anymore. Discretionary spending is squeezed across the board (aside from defense) and has been for some time. If you look at any deficit forecast and subtract out the social security surplus/deficit, we’re essentially budget neutral, ignoring the stimulus, and that’s after the Bush cuts that cost a few hundred billion a year (ie, the bulk of the deficit).
I do suspect that federal agencies will be able to find a lot of extra money for growth in the next few years from savings on capital improvements where costs could be filed under the stimulus.
WaterGirl
@SIA: I couldn’t find the right words for what I was trying to say, but you did. There is more of an edge. I am not too familiar with Saturn square Pluto, but I hope it passes soon!
Calming Influence
@General Winfield Stuck:
What, you don’t like being the Lizard? Fine. Your other choices are Rock, Paper, Scissors, or Spock. I leave it up to you, Mr. “I don’t give a shit what anybody thinks about me.”
t jasper parnel
@Ailuridae: My point, such as it is, is that there is no evidence of a proposed spending freeze other than rumor and idle speculation. Should it happen that Obama does propose a spending freeze and should it happen that the freeze becomes a fact then boy would I be mad.
freelancer (itouch)
@Calming Influence:
Keep me out of your stuck flamewar please. We are all sychophants and trolls at some point. If stuck seems tired, it’s bc he swings at every pitch, but when he connects, ooh boy. Out of the park.
General Winfield Stuck
@Calming Influence:
You morans can’t help yourselves. You make up quotes out of thin air. There are lots of folks here I care what they think. Just not you.
FlipYrWhig
@t jasper parnel: FYI, Yglesias has some details about the actual conference call.
WaterGirl
@General Winfield Stuck:
I appreciate your response to my query. Just to be clear sure I understand, with the quote above, are you referring to BJ nearly being assimilated by so called progressives?
valdivia
@freelancer (itouch):
There was a conference call today with bloggers with someone from the Budget office that went through some of the planned freezes. The problem is that people hear the word freeze and think this is a Republican type of across the board freeze. This is not the case–see famed Obama scalpel reference–and we have little in the manner of details ad what else will go into the budget. So there is a policy there but we have no idea what the context is.
Calming Influence
@freelancer (itouch):
I try to lighten it up here, and see what it get’s me? People get all anti-lizard and shit. What a bunch of self-absorbed jerks. Don’t you realize they’re going to be cutting into John with knives tomorrow? And sewing him up like a worn-out sock when they’re done?
Think about someone else for a change.
Heh.
General Winfield Stuck
@WaterGirl: Yes, it seems like that today, to me. Though I sure hope I’m wrong.
Tomorrow is another day, like always, and things might look different. I just hate seeing what is happening to liberals and democrats and our young president. makes me cranky is all. :)
Anne Laurie
@FlipYrWhig:
I think you’re looking for a metaphor involving sharing your living space with a litter of unhousebroken puppies. Or, in the case of the Republicans, piglets.
t jasper parnel
@FlipYrWhig: Thanks for the link. I find it interesting, however, that MattY offers little in the way of actual factuals and lots in the way of idle speculation about what will be offered and what will happen. God knows what the future will bring and she ain’t talking. If the future were to resemble the past, an assumption about which Hume warned against making, Obama’s desires are less than likely to occur. And we don’t actually know what O’s desires are, do we?
cat48
@Comrade Kevin: maddow writes more Right Wingnuts talking points for them.
FlipYrWhig
@Anne Laurie:
That would have been better. Well played.
Ailuridae
@Zach:
Wait, what?
If you look at any deficit forecast and subtract out the social security surplus/deficit, we’re essentially budget neutral, ignoring the stimulus, and that’s after the Bush cuts that cost a few hundred billion a year (ie, the bulk of the deficit).
What do you mean by Social Security deficit? Are you also including Medicare and Medicaid in there? Social Security in and of itself is in good health and with very minor adjustments can be funded into perpetuity. With no adjustments its fully funded through 2037 and has enough to pay 3/4 of benefits going forward from there.
valdivia
@valdivia:
this was not meant for freelancer (sorry too tired by now) but for @t jasper parnel:
General Winfield Stuck
@freelancer (itouch):
Never thought of it this way, but you may be right. Thanks. Really!
Calming Influence
@General Winfield Stuck:
Christ General, you must realize that’s not a “quote”? It’s more of a “Mr. Smarty Pants” or “Mr. His Shit don’t Stink”.
But if you want a quote:
@General Winfield Stuck: “Like I give a shit what you think.”
Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
Anne Laurie
@WaterGirl:
Be glad you weren’t here during some of the more nail-biting periods during the primaries / just before the election in 2008. I’m assuming (hoping) that the flood of new commentors will either assimilate to the social customs at this virtual Cheers, or decide that it was a mistake to try and change our slovenly parochial habits in the first place and move on. Also, that everyone’s undiagnosed SAD will improve as the days grow literally brighter.
Wile E. Quixote
@Calming Influence:
It’s pronounced “Fronkonsteen”.
freelancer (itouch)
@valdivia:
Are you sure this was directed at me? Because when I heard the news about the budget tonight, all I could think of was that sometime around this time last year the was a moment not unlike a scene at the end of the fourth season of The Wire, where the new mayor is finding out what he has to work with, only to find out that the schools have been running a $54 million deficit. His reaction is one of being dumbfounded. “How am I going to deal with that?! I mean, realistically, what the fuck are we supposed to do about THAT?!”
WaterGirl
@General Winfield Stuck: I share your hope that you’re wrong about that. :-)
Calming Influence
@General Winfield Stuck:
And I’m all for keeping swinging. I’m just trying to maintain a certain level of levity here, so as this place doesn’t turn into just another internet shithole.
So swing away, big guy.
General Winfield Stuck
@Calming Influence:
What. are you like 12.
Jim
@ Colby
Nick said discretionary spending should be frozen at the 2011 levels, which as I and others have pointed out means in real dollars programs would have less $$$ in 2012 and 2013. Less money = spending cuts. I disagreed and said I did not want such a freeze/cuts.
Nick then said the freeze/cuts would not include the general things I had mentioned were worthwhile — services, jobs, research, and safeguards — because he claimed those weren’t part of discretionary spending. That’s when I replied with the line you find so objectionable.
Read #276, 284, and 300 again, please, and tell me I wasn’t talking about how a freeze = less money spent on programs I think are important. Not complete cuts, but less money spent after taking inflation into account.
I feel like you’re getting on my case because I didn’t fully restate my initial statement(s) in all my subsequent posts, and I think that’s a bit of a ridiculous standard to hold me to here.
Calming Influence
@Wile E. Quixote:
And I remember your humpback was on the other side last time I saw you…
valdivia
@freelancer (itouch):
yeah sorry. It was directed at someone else. Tired fingers. See my correction upthread.
and excellent The Wire reference btw.
Calming Influence
@General Winfield Stuck:
O.K., I’m calling that a strike, but guessing you didn’t read my previous comment.
WaterGirl
@Anne Laurie: I wasn’t here then, but I was on other blogs that seemed to go through the same thing. I ended up at The Field for sanity during that time. But Honduras changed the focus at The Field, for a long time, at least, and I found my sanity here. Not to mention the snark and all the pets!
I’m with you in hoping that BJ will soon get back to being more like BJ.
Ailuridae
@t jasper parnel:
Umm, Jared Bernstein was on Rachel talking about it tonight and defending the policy and Matt Yglesias reported on the call with the White House. Its real, just the details aren’t out of which programs are cut
freelancer (itouch)
Can we get Calming Influence and eastriver to stab each other? Whaddya say, DougJ? Care to reduce your sockpuppeting efforts by two personas a la the shit John Cusack twist-film Identity?
freelancer +4
Calming Influence
@WaterGirl:
Hey, I’m working my ass off here! A little help in the levity department would be appreciated; we used to be able to disagree without going nuts.
Wile E. Quixote
@Calming Influence:
What humpback?
Calming Influence
@freelancer (itouch):
Who is this poser/hoser eastriver you speak of, and when do I get to stab him?
Calming Influence
@Wile E. Quixote:
Sorry Wile E., I must have been thinking of someone else.
freelancer (itouch)
@Calming Influence:
Any time DougJ decides to show up in his particular visage.
As an aside, Anne Laurie? Can haz new open thread pleaz?
At 431+, this one’s getting a bit heavy. Kthx. Heart you!
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
I wonder how many Republican districts/congresscritters will be affected by the freeze? It would be nice if a good portion of the cuts/freezes were to certain Republicans, forcing them to defend the pork they are bringing home. Regardless of how it divides up, it ought to be interesting to see who goes on the defense of what. In an election year, this could have some interesting consequences.
Unlike the pearl-clutchers and couch-fainters I think I can wait for the SOTU to hear what Obama has to say about the cuts/freeze. From what I have read so far it seems reasonable, not immediate and it is clear that there needs to be something done about the ballooning deficits if we are going to focusing money elsewhere to boost the economy.
John, let the OR nurse know if you are nervous before the surgery and they can slip you a bit of something to make you relax. One time the doc was delayed by another operation so they loaded me up on extra Valium just to keep me “comfortable” (plus slid me a magazine). Since I have HBP they usually slip me some during prep to calm the nerves.
Calming Influence
@Anne Laurie:
And I would refer you back to my classic “Penguins v. Ducks” sports commentary for my bonafides in “lightening up the thread” expertise.
Uriel
@Calming Influence:
freelancer (itouch)
@DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal):
Versed is a godsend in preop.
@Calming Influence:
Oh, so you’re bonafide?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16-AK3wQaTQ&feature=youtube_gdata
Uriel
@freelancer (itouch):
Hey guys! If he doesn’t want play to I can fill in! I’ve got my own mitt, and I’ll play where ever you want! I’ll even play left field! Just tell me what team I’m on! Aw, come on guys. Guys?
Dang it….
Calming Influence
@Uriel:
And I shall soldier on. We have a full range of experiences here commenting at Balloon Juice. I’m a veteran, and I’m guessing there’s a higher percentage of veterans here than at a lot of other progressive blogs. I’m also guessing that the average age is closer to 40 than it is to 20. And it seems like the education level (both formal and self-taught) is higher here. That’s a great starting point.
But for me, humor has always been a reliable indicator of an open channel for ideas. There is nothing that shuts down a brainstorming session quicker than ridicule.
So for me, “trying to keep it light” is not “I don’t want to hear anything negative.” I just want to hear what good brains are thinking.
freelancer (itouch)
@Uriel:
Lol, put me in coach!
Agreed, all the same.
27, and still an undergrad, just for the record.
Just sayin’.
Uriel
@Calming Influence: As shall I, I imagine. Partially because I’ve appreciated this place since the elections for all the reasons you mentioned.
But mostly because a few well meaning but benighted souls made the tragic mistake of tossing me a half-harted “LOL” over my zombie Ted Kennedy and V for Vendetta posts and the like, and, unfortunately, I’m just the kind of guy who mistakes faint praise for energetic applause. So now those people must be made to understand the depths of the error they’ve made.
I’m sure it will happen, eventually, and the populous here will rise up and drive me out like the maladjusted monster I am. But it’s going to be hell getting there, I promise.
Uriel
@freelancer (itouch): Sad thing is I’m actually in the “closer to 40 than it is to 20” set. By a fair margin. Granted, I tend to come off as more of the “closer to 16 and destined to be a cast member of ‘Jersey Shore 5′” category.
I like to think of it as a result of only being “as old as you feel.” It’s amazing how much nonsense that phrase excuses.
(Also, I’ll again point out that that “lol” is probably part of the problem, not the solution, me-wise. Just saying. People will hold this against you, one day. )
NobodySpecial
Dumb question.
Since we know that the CBO scored the public option and a lot of the other stuff that went out the window in the BlueDog freakout as being good to lower spending, is Obama’s playing it as a possible offset to the ‘freeze’ really providing cover for Senate reconciliation?
Just a thought, and I have to go back to work, and I didn’t see it in a quick scan of the thread.
bago
@Ailuridae: Other than the TERMINATION of programs. You know, the thing I talked about is post 240, you know, where I introduced the concept of termination in 2010 as applying in 2011, and in 2012, as well as 2013, all the way through 2099.
Do you understand the concept of terminate?
bago
@Ailuridae: Other than the link t jasper and I have been flogging all night. Other than that link, we have no details. Other than the details presented in that link that we both linked to and you still haven’t read. Beyond your basic ignorance of the facts, I kind of respect your opinion…
bago
@bago: Remember that time in comment 360, that time in comment 181, 215, 181, 389, 350, 361, 374, 389, and 399 where people actually referenced the actual proposal, and you didn’t? You might want to look in to that.
Just Sayin, you might want to actually read the proposal before you flame it. That’s probably why all of those posts asked you to read it.
arguingwithsignposts
@Uriel and @Calming Influence,
we try to keep the levity going here, but sometimes it falters. I missed @Uriel’s V for Vendetta comment, somehow. perhaps a link? never seen the movie so far. is it worth my time?
and a p.s. – nobody gets driven out. Hell, we can’t even get rid of Brick Oven Bill, and he’s been pissing all over the place for quite a while now.
Svensker
@arguingwithsignposts:
Yes. Fantastic movie. Seen it a bunch of times.
t jasper parnel
@bago: I think Ailuridae’s point is that the actually existing budget is different than the embryonic freeze and that the so far undefined, for all the umming about different nameless sources and Bernstein on Madow, freeze is worse than Hitler. On the other side of the aisle Ed Wheelan over at the Corner fumes that
So as one can plainly see Obama is, once again, himself and his opposite in this case a free spending liberal who is shrinking the government so he can drown it in a bathtub.
chrome agnomen
i’m stealing all the Bs and Js off the keyboards
Rick Taylor
__
Me too. That would be insane. So I hope that’s nonsense.
Zach
@Ailuridae:
We’re both right. Social Security is currently running a deficit; it is fully funded if you consider that it’s been paying into a trust fund for many years to deal with the inevitable deficit brought on by baby boom retirements. However, we’ve been spending the surplus forever (remember the 2000 presidential debate about whether or not this was a good idea) and including it in the general budget number that’s reported every year. Since there’s less surplus now (and soon enough, a large deficit), it’s impossible to stay out of deficit without finding a revenue stream to replace the money we’ve been skimming off of Social Security.
I made a couple charts making this point here – http://alchemytoday.com/2009/02/26/209/ – basically, Obama’s projected deficit decreases over time as a fraction of GDP if you ignore the change in social security revenues & outlays.
D-Chance.
So, just to understand this… the same Obama who wanted to spend upwards of $1 TRILLION for healthcare… now wants a 3-year spending FREEZE.
Uh-huh.
Zach
@D-Chance.: It makes a ton of sense, actually. Both measures reduce the deficit. Would you complain about a $10 trillion bill that consisted of taxing people $10 trillion and then giving it back? The size of a bill is meaningless, and $1 trillion over 10 years isn’t particularly large at that. That’s three years of Bush’s tax cuts.
bago
@D-Chance.: This is particularly retarded. It spends 900 billion over ten years, but takes in 1.1 trillion over ten years. This means that if you can do math, it reduces the deficit by 200 billion over ten years. Your argument is invalid.
Nick
@D-Chance.: That $1 trillion healthcare bill is $1 trillion that would already be spent on healthcare anyway.
Flugelhorn
I have not bothered with the rest of the thread, but I thought it apprpriate to bring up here since Obama is so familiar with the term.
A 3 year freeze reducing departmental budgets by LESS than 1% for 3 years, saving an estimated 15 billion a year (whoopie) is the very definition of…
…wait for it…
“Lipstick on a pig.”