School Uniforms

On Morning Joe, the conventional wisdom is that health care is over, and Obama now needs to focus on a lot of little popular things instead of big ticket items like health care and cap and trade…

Norah O’Donnell then mentioned Clinton and school uniforms as the kind of thing he could pursue that was popular and showed the American people he was working every day to make a difference.

Heck of a job, Democrats. Heck of a job. My blood is boiling for all the people who pretended the last three months that we could just start over and then magiaclly get a more liberal bill. And a fucking pony.






95 replies
  1. 1
    Anon says:

    It’s suprising that you would put your name to a comment with such unecessary bar room language. Your point gets lost.

  2. 2
    Hunter Gathers says:

    As we all know, Clinton’s school uniforms initiative was the main driver of the economic expansion of the 1990’s.

  3. 3
    Napoleon says:

    I posted this in an earlier thread but I got into work 45 minutes ago and there is an e-mail waiting for all employees that our medical coverage cost are going up 31% this year and they are now looking at alternatives.

    Why did I vote for the Dems again?

  4. 4
    ChrisNBama says:

    I am convinced that the Congress if institutionally incapable of doing what needs to be done on Health Care, Energy, and the lot of it. I don’t know where to affix blame. Right now I lean to a spineless majority party, and an intransigent opposition party, but that isn’t entirely the truth. I think it’s more complex than that.

    The twenty four hour news cycle, the poisoning of our political discourse through right wing media, and now the unlimited resources of our newly minted persons: corporations (Now Aetna, you be a good little boy and sit still in your seat. Hey, Nike, stop picking on AFLAC and sit up straight!) I’m really at a loss. We are totally fucked.

  5. 5
    El Cid says:

    My blood is boiling for all the people who pretended the last three months that we could just start over and then magiaclly get a more liberal bill. And a fucking pony.

    Strangely, my heart was broke on it when the stupidest political party I ever seen spent months jacking around about how they had to get one or two Republican votes, and then when it was handed off to the Gang of Six Pointless Ruinous Jackasses for an entire teabagging summer, with no planned response and no improvements whatsoever one the Golden Six jackasses spit it out, I knew it would be a minor miracle if it passed in any form.

    But if you want to think this is all about the ‘firebaggers’, I think you’ve greatly overstated without much empirical evidence the individuals and organizations which have demonstrated an impact on this legislation, well, that’s okay, because we all have particular people and organizations which personally piss us off beyond their measurable impact.

  6. 6
    Hugh says:

    I’ve been a Democrat all my adult life. This is unforgivable. They are corrupt cowards. Obama is doing nothing as far as I can see. I’ve been defending him for months now. But where is he? I used to think a vote for another party (not Republicans of course) was a wasted vote. I used to think that. I think I might be done with the Democrats. I don’t say that lightly.

  7. 7
    Econwatcher says:

    Go after the banks. Go after banks. Go after the banks. And did I mention? He should go after the banks.

  8. 8
    Demo Woman says:

    In the words of the great blog leader
    Well Fuckity Fuck Fuck

  9. 9
    Bud says:

    As a lifelong Democrat, I understand this anger. Nancy Pelosi is my rep and over the years I’ve called her office as well as the office of Barbara Boxer and Dianne Feinstein to tell them how infuriating it is to be a member of a party that consistently makes you feel like the 98 lb. weakling. I’ve come to realize that the Democratic leadership does not understand this it at all, maybe even scoffs at it a little bit.

    I would not be surprised if the Democrats lose both majorities in November.

  10. 10
    csmith says:

    Oh, they do SO want him to fail. Fuck the poor slob who needs relief.

  11. 11
    Morbo says:

    Nobody had better ask me to work with sharp objects today.

  12. 12
    Comrade Jake says:

    I caught Lanny Davis on CNN this morning. The clip really is something to behold. He suggested if Obama had only reached out to more Republicans like John McCain and Lindsey Graham, the Democrats could have passed health care by now. The death of health care is all the fault of progressives.

    He also agreed with everything “his friend” Ed Rollins had to say. I’m shocked by that one. Shocked.

  13. 13

    I am really pissed off about this, so it isn’t a good time to make decisions but…. if the Dems don’t pass the Senate HCR bill I won’t be able to vote for them.

    My vote would be enabling cowardice and I will not do that. Hopefully, the Democrats who win seats in 2012/14/16 will be better than the Democrats we have now.

  14. 14
    cat48 says:

    Agreed, John. Al Giordano had a good post on this. I couldn’t take MJ earlier so went to today show. On there, David Gregory said that the WH (Rahm) was in touch and calling the House asking them what they needed to pass health care. I don’t think this is over…….

  15. 15
    El Cid says:

    From BooMan:

    …I just don’t think we can lay the blame for the fiasco in Washington on the doormat of the Angry Left. While there is no doubt that a goodly percentage of progressive opinion leaders have spent the last year sabotaging the president, they didn’t cause this problem. In retrospect, the Obama administration made some bad investments and some tactical errors, but they aren’t really to blame either. The blame lies with the Democratic Caucus of the United States Senate, and with the Republicans who showed remarkable unity of purpose in using every tool at their disposal to delay and oppose a deal or vote on health care reform.

    The Senate health care bill should have been ready for a vote by September. We didn’t have sixty votes in the Senate at any point last year until Paul Kirk took office on September 24th. That was the point when the Senate should have passed their bill. It’s also the Senate’s fault that the public doesn’t like the bill they eventually produced. I think both Atrios and I have been saying for a year that the public will hate being told they have to buy insurance from private insurers. A mandate without a public option was never going to be popular, and only corporate influence can explain why the Democrats in the Senate would attempt to pretend otherwise.

    The public also cannot comprehend why 59 votes are not enough to get legislation passed. The Senate has let everyone down, including the president. It might make me feel better to blame some progressives that I think have been particularly unhelpful, but honesty compels me to cut them slack. They were just as deluded about the possibility of convincing Ben Nelson and Blanche Lincoln to support a public option as Obama was about convincing any Republicans to help him pass health care reform. But they didn’t delay the bill, they didn’t obstruct the bill, and they didn’t water the bill down to the point that it was toxic.

    The real blame for this falls on asshole senators from the Democratic caucus (and, of course, the Republicans). And the solution is the same as it ever was. Use reconciliation.

  16. 16
    GReynoldsCT00 says:

    This is why I’m reading this blog every morning instead of listening to those assholes… too early to get so pissed off

  17. 17
    Demo Woman says:

    Would it be an understatement to say that this week sucked and it’s not quite over?
    What can the democrats do today to piss me off? Maybe they will decide that trickle down economics work. Nothing would surprise me.

  18. 18
    Atlliberal says:

    Maybe the “conventional wisdom” of Morning Joe should be ignored. They will always make the “conventional wisdom” benefit Republicans. Joe is a Republican. He will shout down anyone who comes o his show and doesn’t toe the party line.

    I’ve started watching anything but news in the mornings this week, with a little local weather, and my mental state is much better. I haven’t wanted to throw anything at the TV once.

    Conventional wisdom can be wrong. Ask Martha Coakly

    Call your congresspeople, particularly if they happen to be a Democrat.

  19. 19
    El Cid says:

    By the way, let me echo the sentiment to completely not give the slightest shit what the ‘common’ or ‘conventional’ wisdom is on the Mika and Loudmouth Asshole show. In fact, don’t even watch the miserable twits.

  20. 20
    John Cole says:

    @El Cid: I read that and agree with it. I’m still allowed to be mad at our blogoverse opinion leaders and their magical thinking.

  21. 21
    DPirate says:

    School uniforms? I think I’m turning japanese.

    At least that would mean jobs for Haitians. Then they can afford two mud pies for breakfast.

  22. 22
    tomvox1 says:

    My blood is boiling for all the people who pretended the last three months that we could just start over and then magiaclly get a more liberal bill.

    Objectively, the Lefty activists who wanted to hold out for a “worthy” bill, while undoubtedly something of a demotivator for genuinely Progressive legislators, are probably the very least of the dilatory factors in getting this bill passed. It is about who has the money to influence the votes, really, and compared to AAHP, Big Pharma, Koch FreedomWorks, et al, the Kill the Bill Left is not even in the same league. They do, however, make a convenient fig leaf for those looking to vote against HCR on “progressive” grounds while cashing fat campaign contribution checks from their real masters.

  23. 23
    flukebucket says:

    Posts like this remind me why I stopped watching Morning Joe a long, long time ago.

  24. 24
    beltane says:

    This doesn’t look like a particularly good time for husband to take US citizenship. His Dutch passport is looking mighty attractive these days.

    But look on the bright side: at least now we won’t have to worry about triggers, or if the copays on the subsidized plans were too high. No more shit sandwich; we’re back to having the best health care system in the world. Feel the joy.

  25. 25
    Toast says:

    It’s suprising that you would put your name to a comment with such unecessary bar room language. Your point gets lost.

    Fuck you, you tool.

  26. 26
    beltane says:

    @tomvox1: The Kill the Billleft got played by some very experienced players. They are not responsible for the bill’s failure; they are responsible for running a poorly conceived grassroots effort with regards to health care.

  27. 27
    Rhoda says:

    We are all Mary Landrieu’s bitches, people. And Evan Bayh. And Joe Liberman etc etc. These people are scared and little and have no courage whatsoever.

    And they’re determined to do NOTHING this year.

    No stimulus.
    No health care.
    No cap and trade.

    Fuck. Getting the god damned debt ceiling raised, which if it doesn’t go down will kill our country’s credit and make Lehman’s fail look like a cake walk, was a trial. And Evan Bayh voted against it.

    And now, in a repeat of their 2000 travesty, the Roberts court has opened corporate checkbooks for the Republican party.

    On the plus side, I am actually getting a pony. Or, well, a horse…I’m going to my first riding lesson this Saturday. Got to focus on the good.

  28. 28
    Comrade Dread says:

    Norah O’Donnell then mentioned Clinton and school uniforms as the kind of thing he could pursue that was popular and showed the American people he was working every day to make a difference.

    *Two wars, expanding into three…
    *12 trillion dollar national debt
    *Unemployment at 10%
    *Health care costs rising every year as a percentage of GDP and eating away meager salary gains.

    But all that’s hard. Governing is hard.

    Let’s have a pizza party after fifth period. That’s the kind of leadership I want from my government!

    Asshats.

  29. 29
    tomvox1 says:

    Norah O’Donnell then mentioned Clinton and school uniforms as the kind of thing he could pursue that was popular and showed the American people he was working every day to make a difference.

    BTW, I though his incrementalism was what made Clinton a Big Fucking Loser of a President? That and the 8 years of peace and prosperity, of course…

  30. 30
    Hugh says:

    @El Cid: Good comment as usual. Thanks. I think what we’re seeing now in the reaction to MA is corporate influence/corruption just about fully revealed. That and the literal stupidity of many politicians. But even with that they must see this is ripping the party apart and damaging election prospects.

    Just as physicists can know there is dark energy and dark matter in the universe by watching the odd behavior of the things they can see, we can know there is deep corruption in our political system by watching the odd behavior of our politicians. We have a big problem here and with the yesterday’s Supreme Court decision things could, probably will, get much worse. 1870 here we come.

  31. 31
    Powdermonkey says:

    Does anyone think that a campaign of Faxes, Emails or Phone calls to the House and Senate leadership would make any difference? I called all my Reps yesterday and they all seemed to be sympathetic, but unable to do anything. If we all called Pelosi’s office and made the point “This is why I voted for and gave money to support the largest Democratic majority in decades? Fuck it i’m done!” Would that make a difference?

    I just don’t get it. What the hell do they expect. Am I Dan Snyder?, “OK, so you got to the 1 yard line and decided to punt on second down, great job! it’s just the Super Bowl. Here’s some more money and a 4 year contract!”

  32. 32
    El Cid says:

    @John Cole: Hey, when there used to be an actual left in this country, I’d read the actually leftist press, and sometimes I’d really get mad at some of them, too, but I tried to bear in mind to mainly concentrate on the empirical measures of who affected what policies and politicians.

    One thing you may want to bear in mind is that there simply has not been, in this country (and in my view) any sort of strong, consistent grassroots liberal organizing model which operates under a Democratic President. You shouldn’t be surprised that, given that, there’s just not a whole lot of depth, deep strategy, and organizational experience on the matter.

    That’s one of the reasons I was so shocked that, even with a leader who once was a community organizer, the Democratic Party — pretending its internal, fundamental conflict of leaders who really don’t want any reform versus people who do doesn’t matter — didn’t in the slightest seem to recognize the environment within which they were working.

    I understand (in my view) that the whole ‘reaching out to Republicans’ was more a strategy of finding a good public excuse to water down (or shitty it up, in my view) the actual policies, still, and I realize that a lot of the Democratic leaders doing so really don’t give a shit if health care reform went down the tubes, it was just flat out embarrassing to watch.

    *****

    On the other hand, I’m watching Washington Journal and watching the hack from the Center for Competitive Politics and Freedom and Corporations are People Too explain that the new Supreme Court ruling is not about empowering big corporations and lobbyists, but about leveling the playing field for all those mid-level corporations.

    He’s also trying to spread this bullshit line about how corporations are just ‘associations of people’, except, ‘associations of people’ aren’t recognized as a legal single person with extraordinary powers yet next to zero responsibilities or criminal liabilities. Corporations are not simply ‘associations of people’ — they were more than that 300 years ago.

    Nobody mistook the East India Company for some sailors just hanging around on a pier.

  33. 33
    beltane says:

    @Rhoda: We all need ponies. Their shit is essential for fertilizing our survival gardens. No ponies, no food.

  34. 34
    bystander says:

    It seems to me that the best recipe someone could cook up to guarantee a pissed off day, is one that would include turning on the boob-tube to see what some gas bag or other has to say. I’m so confident that I am dumber for having done so – that I have actually annihilated previously functioning brain cells – that I turned the thing off ten years ago and have not turned it back on. The goal of folk like Norah O’Donnell is to manufacture consent; to prep the viewer to accept the Village/Palace’s point of view. Why on earth would I want to submit to that effort? Why would anyone?

  35. 35
    beltane says:

    @El Cid: FDR had a real, honest to goodness left to work with. Left as in proud Socialists who had a coherent ideology to back them up. What we have now are a bunch of fickle, ego driven, “creative class” progressives. The left in this country was effectively killed off by the end of the sixties.

  36. 36
    debbie says:

    Your directing your anger at the Democrats is exactly what the Republicans want. At the end of the day, you’ve still got to stand up for your principles.

  37. 37

    Cole be upset with those who thought the Dems should hold out for a better bill. But in the end they had ZERO say on how the bill progresses. NONE. They are not elected officials so your anger is misplaced and just downright stupid. They did not effect this process in any meaningful way. The administration and the Senate are to blame for this disaster. They fucked up and they are solely to blame. You are blaming the fans booing the home team for a loss. That’s not helpful. How the fuck were they supposed to push the process along?

  38. 38
    El Cid says:

    All my earlier comments notwithstanding, I also didn’t see what appeared to be really well thought out strategic planning by those advocating to ‘kill this bill’, i.e., going through various scenarios including the current one. And you can’t, in my view, just commit yourself to a rhetorical strategy if you don’t really, really mean it.

    But it’s hard for a lot of people to grasp that they’re dealing with a political party and politicians who really just don’t want to do any of this stuff. Particularly not when the material incentives are nearly entirely lined up with just going along with the status quo.

  39. 39
    nepat says:

    Morning Joe is still on the air?

  40. 40
    Jay says:

    But of course people saying “pass the Senate bill” are also pretending we can get a more liberal bill later.

    Just be honest: Senate give away to corporations is as good as it gets in this country because we’re utterly fucked.

  41. 41

    My blood is boiling for all the people who pretended the last three months that we could just start over and then magiaclly get a more liberal bill. And a fucking pony.

    This is getting pretty tiresome and has exactly nothing to do with anything that happened. Should be fun to watch the pile – on despite the disclaimer.

    Anybody remember those earmarks things John McPOW hates so badly. You would think there are over 50 Democrats who know what a strike through is. But that isn’t ‘clubby.” It isn’t as though the Senate doesn’t have ball bats like chairs, seats, earmarks, office space…

    Helpless is an absolute bullshit, was when HCR was being built – still is.

  42. 42
    merrinc says:

    @tomvox1:

    Clinton’s work on school uniforms might have saved the country if he only he hadn’t gotten a blowjob and lied about it.

  43. 43
    DA says:

    Yeah, while the firebagger faction is a bunch of imbeciles, it’s hard to see how anyone deserves more blame than Baucus for this happening.

  44. 44
    Scott de B. says:

    Your directing your anger at the Democrats is exactly what the Republicans want. At the end of the day, you’ve still got to stand up for your principles.

    Siince the Democrats are in power, and they are the ones not standing up for our principles, and they lead the party we belong to, I think our anger is quite appropriately directed towards them.

  45. 45
    jibeaux says:

    I’m depressed, and demoralized, and I can’t get any work done. One thing I do know is that I’m about as big a political pragmatist as you can get and I vote in every election that comes my way, including-and-I-am-completely-serious, a statewide RUNOFF election for Secretary of Labor. Too many people were intimidated, arrested, beaten, and killed for the right of all citizens to vote for me to spit on their sacrifices by not voting, is how I feel about it. Whispering the words “Ralph Nader” in my ear are enough to send me into a homicidal rage.
    But if the Democrats abandon their signature domestic issue when there still exists other ways forward, I will not vote for them in the next election, Ezra Klein and I will sit it out or write in Paul Krugman or something. They will simply not be worth voting for, and they have to punished in the only way our process allows us to punish them.

  46. 46
    Marion says:

    I can totally understand and share in the fury and frustration with the Dem Party and its leadership for this debacle. Truly. And the rage at the lowgrade morons on the far left who cheered the defeat of healthcare (and face it, it’s dead).
    Really I do.
    But the people who are cheering the Supreme Court’s decision to hand our government over to the corporations are Republicans. This was a 5-4 decision. The next Supreme Court nominees can be made by a Republican or a Democratic president. You choose.
    Refusing to vote for Democrats because they make you mad is just as irresponsible as the firebaggers pushing for the defeat of healthcare because it benefited the insurance companies.
    Sometimes you just have to hold your nose.

  47. 47
    jibeaux says:

    Literally the only bright spot of sunshine in my day over the past couple of days has been learning how to turn off farmville notifications in my facebook. Hallelujah.

  48. 48
    Elie says:

    @beltane:

    Yep — agree with your point on the left being ‘played’. Also with John to some extent…how did they actually think this could really be a do-over?

    Also agree with other commenters to avoid teevee news for the most part and stick with anything else. After a mini meltdown a couple of days ago, I feel much better

  49. 49
    somethingblue says:

    Yeah, while the firebagger faction is a bunch of imbeciles, it’s hard to see how anyone deserves more blame than Baucus for this happening.

    Thank you. That is exactly right.

  50. 50
    jibeaux says:

    Refusing to vote for a Democrat because they make you mad is just as irresponsible as the firebaggers pushing for the defeat of healthcare because it benefited the insurance companies.

    I’m sorry, I just don’t see it that way. The firebaggers are annoying because they would prefer nothing to something, and are holding out for things that simply are not politically possible. The idea that you could scrap the bill and write something better later, with a lesser majority, just defies all logic. It’s the wrong choice borne out of an unrealistic confidence rather than life in the reality-based community.
    Congressional Democrats, on the other hand, have a way forward. They have a couple of ways, actually, in which they could plausibly salvage health care reform. Giving up on the health care reform which they have already voted for, by the way, is a big old loser both politically and substantively. It’s the wrong choice borne out of an utter lack of confidence in their own agenda and in the core ideas that Democrats are supposed to stand for, and I just can’t forgive that. Everyone has their breaking point, and this is mine.

  51. 51
    Elie says:

    I don’t think its a matter of putting full “responsibility” for this failure onto the firebaggers but acknowledging that once you have a shaky set of players, having idiots screaming “Fire” in the theater is not helpful and can bring on a stampede — Of course, the fear of fire is the reason ultimately, but the assholes screaming and amplifying the fear makes it much more likely to cause the panic…

    We can talk about how to parse this blame, but there is no way they are clean and blameless — NO WAY.

  52. 52

    It’s the 11th hour, John. Time to unite, not divide.

  53. 53
    Robin G. says:

    I used to be against school uniforms, then I started seeing the number of kids coming to school without decent coats or shoes. If they’re going to implement school uniforms and make sure there are free and reduced price clothes available for families who need it (the same way they have free and reduced price meals), then I can get on board with it. Not that the Republicans would ever allow something so very s-ocial-ist to be passed.

    As for the Dems, I plan to come out enthusiastically on Tuesday’s caucus to vote for any challengers. After that… we’ll see.

  54. 54
    Porco Rosso says:

    Little things like school uniforms?

    Shit. What about getting melamine out of petfood–and anything else. Oh, and hamburger that won’t kill you.

    School uniforms?

  55. 55
    Elie says:

    @D. Aristophanes:

    Yeah, I agree but its hard to do that in the immediate period while you are still pulling the knife out of your back. Give it a couple days until after the blood clots a bit

  56. 56
    PTirebiter says:

    My blood is boiling for all the people who pretended the last three months…

    My blood reached the boiling point when the PUMA cell popped up at the convention. Instead of a year long narrative about the death of Milton Friedman and the yellow peril, we got wall to wall coverage of our circular pissing-match.
    And I do blame the Firebaggers for that. 100,000 Democrats in the house, and each and every one them thinks they’re the smartest person in the joint.

  57. 57
    PTirebiter says:

    @D. Aristophanes:
    Yea, maybe, but right now my ass is too sore to think about it.

  58. 58
    danimal says:

    My blood is boiling for all the people who pretended the last three months that we could just start over and then magiaclly get a more liberal bill. And a fucking pony.

    Isn’t it put up or shut up time for our progressive leaders to introduce the magical pony, single-payer bill that will pass Congress? They got their wish and killed the bill. Now they can introduce the improved bill without all those messy compromises. Don’t get mad at them; they had a plan and vociferously mocked those of us that wanted to pass this bill because it was the best we could get. Now that they have apparently won, it’s time for them to deliver.

    Where’s the better bill? It needs to pass this year, or there won’t be enough Democrats on Capitol Hill to play a touch football game.

  59. 59
    WitlessinSeattle says:

    Yes, it’s all the fault of JANE HAMSHER!!!!!!! With the 200+ Senators and 5000+ Reps she controls, she destroyed the Most Pragmaticast, Politically Feasiblist Jinormous Health Care Reform in the History of Ever! Why, she’s as destructive as Attila, or Hitler, or even…..RALPH NADER!!!!

    Thanksjane!

  60. 60
    Elie says:

    ..And I have to say, since I really do not accept their explanation (the firebaggers), that they were just after a better piece of legislation given the known difficulties with the way our Congress was behaving, my mind goes to very cynical and dark places about their motivation. I just do not accept that they couldnt see the reality..Makes me think that the sabotage was deliberately done — perhaps paid for in various ways, by the hard opponents — either the insurance companies, the Republicans or related others. Especially watching Hamsher smootching on ’em. No going back from that for me and while I am not a typical purger type, I want her off any discussion of a solution. She to me is worse than Tokyo Rose. She actually aided and abetted directly..

  61. 61
    The Raven says:

    And the liberals are responsible for the failure of the Senate Democrats to deliver a plan that is remotely popular, or even makes financial sense, how, exactly?

    Good luck getting better regulation on the insurance companies in the new “corporations can spend as much money as they want on political propaganda” media regime. But then, the Court may decide that the regulations which control insurance company abuses are unconstitutional.

    Hey, more food for corvids.

    Croak!

  62. 62
    Elie says:

    @Elie:

    Also had the indignity of experiencing one of our regular Libertarian type Democrats actually chortle with glee at the death of this. You tell me how you unify when actions were taken to explicitly divide and kill upfront by these same folks…Did they think that they might actually kill the Democratic Party? I have to think so. Burning down the village to save it so to speak…

  63. 63
  64. 64
    The Raven says:

    We have here Jane Hamsher on FDL funding:

    No, we don’t take money from Scott Brown, or anyone who has informed us that they’re Republicans, or anyone who has asked us to do anything in return for a donation. We get thousands of small donor donations and don’t ask anyone’s party affiliation, but the “pay-for-play” accusation implies we’re knowingly doing something for money. In five years, nobody has ever asked us to write or do anything in exchange for a donation, nor have we ever done so.

  65. 65
    Elie says:

    @The Raven:

    But its dead now, right. Dead. You and your purity squad should be glad. We have nothing to offer millions, MILLIONS of people who had nothing and will continue to have nothing while you and your squad can continue to hold out for the perfect.

  66. 66
    Elie says:

    @danimal:

    Absolutely!

  67. 67
    Rick Taylor says:

    Heck of a job, Democrats. Heck of a job. My blood is boiling for all the people who pretended the last three months that we could just start over and then magiaclly get a more liberal bill. And a fucking pony.

    __
    I’m confused. These people were not the problem. I’m feeling outrage exhaustion, but if my blood were boiling, it would be for the Republicans who’ve decided to opt out of any constructive discussion of the serious problems this country is facing, together with the prima donna centrists in the senate who, while professing how they wanted to pass health care reform, decided to use a filibuster, a procedural maneuver which if used at all ought to be reserved for the most heinous legislation, to dictate conditions without having to bargain in good faith.

  68. 68
    Elie says:

    @The Raven:

    Her goal may be to destroy the current Democratic party rather than a revenue target for herself or her organization. Would be very interested in the provenance of those little contributions, though.

  69. 69
    Mnemosyne says:

    @The Raven:

    I was wondering when someone was going to show up to gloat. Yep, that’s right, you’ve helped kill healthcare reform for the next decade. That’s sure something to be proud of.

  70. 70
    Mnemosyne says:

    @The Raven:

    And the liberals are responsible for the failure of the Senate Democrats to deliver a plan that is remotely popular, or even makes financial sense, how, exactly?

    So if the Senate is only supposed to deliver on things that are popular, then we should pass legislation to make torture legal, right? After all, a majority of Americans think it’s a-ok so it’s clearly the will of the people.

  71. 71
    Rick Taylor says:

    But if the Democrats abandon their signature domestic issue when there still exists other ways forward, I will not vote for them in the next election, Ezra Klein and I will sit it out or write in Paul Krugman or something.

    __
    I’ve thought about this; it’s the first time I’ve every thought along these lines. But you can’t make a blanket pronouncement; was your Democratic senator or representative part of the problem or were they were working to find a solution? Indiscriminately voting against all Democrats is counterproductive.
    __
    On the other hand, as previously pointed out, there’s no need to punish the Democrats who obstructed health care; politics will take care of the blue dogs by itself.

  72. 72
    onceler says:

    What utter crap. The idea that this failure of leadership is the fault of people who wanted the bill to be strengthened is just patently ridiculous. You claim the ‘reality-based’ mantle, and then reveal yourself as a fool when you make posts like this. What complete ignorance, willfull ignorance. But punching the hippies is easier than admitting that your latest hero has been wrong-headed and inadequate, I suppose. Weak. Really f-in’ weak.

  73. 73
    DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal) says:

    @flukebucket:

    I have never watched Morning Choad and I never will. Not one fucking minute of that idiot from the Redneck Riviera.

    Never. I would blow my fucking brains out first. I would rather shovel shit in a commercial dryer and watch it spin.

  74. 74
    Rick Taylor says:

    Or to quote one of my favorite bloggers, Booman. Read the whole thing, but
    __

    Al Giordano makes an amusing analogy comparing Democrats to the Simpsons and Republicans to the Flanders. Whose party do you want to attend? I agree with Al for the most part, but I just don’t think we can lay the blame for the fiasco in Washington on the doormat of the Angry Left. While there is no doubt that a goodly percentage of progressive opinion leaders have spent the last year sabotaging the president, they didn’t cause this problem. In retrospect, the Obama administration made some bad investments and some tactical errors, but they aren’t really to blame either. The blame lies with the Democratic Caucus of the United States Senate, and with the Republicans who showed remarkable unity of purpose in using every tool at their disposal to delay and oppose a deal or vote on health care reform.
    __
    . . .
    __
    The public also cannot comprehend why 59 votes are not enough to get legislation passed. The Senate has let everyone down, including the president. It might make me feel better to blame some progressives that I think have been particularly unhelpful, but honesty compels me to cut them slack. They were just as deluded about the possibility of convincing Ben Nelson and Blanche Lincoln to support a public option as Obama was about convincing any Republicans to help him pass health care reform. But they didn’t delay the bill, they didn’t obstruct the bill, and they didn’t water the bill down to the point that it was toxic.
    __
    The real blame for this falls on asshole senators from the Democratic caucus (and, of course, the Republicans). And the solution is the same as it ever was. Use reconciliation.

  75. 75
    Elie says:

    @Rick Taylor:

    ‘On the other hand, as previously pointed out, there’s no need to punish the Democrats who obstructed health care; politics will take care of the blue dogs by itself.’

    Of course you presume that all the people who added to the obstruction were elected. What do we do with the Democrats like Jane Hamsher? They just get to keep lobbing grenades and adding their thumbs to the scale, but there is no way to “punish” them. The beauty for those like them who I think actually had a goal to destroy the party, they know full well that there is no way to punish them without blowing up the whole party. That is, to my mind, something that they may have had in mind all along — maybe having the ambitious goal to use this legislation as a fulcrum for blowing up and redesigning the party (and of course it will be appropriately “left”). Khmer Rouge tactics
    without the bloody bodies

  76. 76
    onceler says:

    @Elie: what planet do you people live on? in what alternate reality did people advocating for a better bill cause it to fail? y’all are just making shit up to suit your pre-determined narrative. is there no intellectual honesty at this place anymore?

  77. 77
    El Cid says:

    @beltane: It was weirder than that. Much of FDR’s New Deal were actually policies emerging out of policy planning groups of the largest, wealthiest corporations’ leadership and the multi-generational super-rich — because in the 1920s, there were still some sane among the super-rich who didn’t want to just grab all the money they could in 10 or 20 years but wanted to be rich, secure, and safe for the next 50 or 100.

  78. 78
    Elie says:

    @onceler:

    Y’all wanted to KILL the bill rather than just make it better. I have been right here on this planet. Where have YOU been?
    Where is your honesty? Killing the bill not improving it was explicitly stated many times

  79. 79
    El Cid says:

    Is there any empirical way of determining the voting and policy impact of the FireDogLake website? A lot of times on this board they seem to be assumed to have awesome powers which I just don’t see the evidence for.

  80. 80
    Elie says:

    @El Cid:

    Shaping attitude is hard to measure..How do you quantify the breached trust with the other progressives who wanted this to pass? Its probably more like what is the cost to the consumer of the butcher placing his thumb on the scale over thousands of purchases? Maybe 2 cents per transaction but after thousands, the impact builds up…

    So if I hear you correctly, are you then saying that they had no impact at all? Their clear and relentless opposition and screaming “Fire” from the rooftops had no impact? The smooching on Grover Nordquist without impact?

    Hmmm. What is the impact of the blogs in general? Probably not huge but the ad revenue ending up on the blog pages seems to indicate that there is some influence somewhere…

    Interesting question but can you just assume there was no impact?

  81. 81
    danimal says:

    @El Cid: When the sniping comes from your own side, it’s really hard to lead the battle against the obstruction army. This is so obvious, it should be self-evident.

  82. 82
    TWP says:

    My blood is boiling for all the people who pretended the last three months that we could just start over and then magiaclly get a more liberal bill.

    Are you kidding me? This bill was held up by the Senate ConservaDems like Baucus, Lincoln, Snowe, etc. I love how you apply no blame to those fuckers. Sitting around choosing the right color of pen to use in Aug/Sept in those USELESS Gang of Shit meetings. And then the House passes the bill and the Senate jacks around for weeks to insure that Nelson gets a Nebraska pony that gives blow jobs and Landrieu gets bags of cash to pass out to her Ragin Cajun friends.

    Stop the whining about the progressives. There’s blame to go around…but the bulk of it falls on the Senate leadership and Obama who jacked around for months on end. And, to make matters worse, they had no fucking plan on what to do if they lost the 60th vote. That’s political malpractice. The WH and Senate Leadership is a disgrace.

  83. 83
    Gene108 says:

    Herding cats is easier than getting liberals to agree.

  84. 84
    El Cid says:

    @Elie: I’m not saying there was no impact from various progressives who were saying ‘kill the bill’. Which, incidentally, wasn’t me.

    What I’m asking for is some evidence to go along with the widespread suggestion that their efforts actually, empirically led to the situation we face now.

    Again, by all reports, the House members refusing to vote for the Senate bill are Stupak allied coat-hanger lobbyists, despite the noisemaking on the liberal side. Justifiable noisemaking, but you’re talking about people who would, reportedly, vote for it when the time came.

    So I do happen to get curious when I hear over and over and over and over and over that health care got screwed because Jane Hamsher’s ill-tempered, that there ought to be some evidence of what actually happened.

  85. 85
    El Cid says:

    …then the House passes the bill and the Senate jacks around for weeks to insure that Nelson gets a Nebraska pony that gives blow jobs…

    Only Republicans are into the weird stuff. Democrats settle for just ordinary affairs and hookers.

  86. 86
    Joe Buck says:

    Your anger is misdirected, John. The misguided denizens of Firedoglake haven’t impeded the progress of health care reform even one bit. The cowardice of the Senate has been the culprit.

    This thing can still be salvaged, by passing two bills: the Senate bill, plus an extra bill to fix the worst defects in the Senate bill that can get through the Senate via reconciliation. But the Senate bill alone won’t work: a hefty tax on the health plans negotiated by organized labor means no GOTV effort by labor this fall, and a repeat of 1994.

  87. 87
    PTirebiter says:

    @Elie:
    Nah, self-sabotage is part and parcel with becoming a Democrat. When we pass that course, we go on to advanced Analysis Paralysis. While we’re going door to door, doing our hurt feelings check, authoritarians fill the void.

  88. 88
    TWP says:

    John, stop blaming the DFH’s. Here’s your real problem:

    I would love to know which of Stupak’s ten or eleven anti-choice zealots are going to change their votes and vote yes now? Because unless they do, there will be no bill no matter what the liberals do. It’s driving me nuts that people don’t see where the real roadblock is here, but I suppose it’s always easiest to blame the hippies — this despite the fact that at every step of the way the liberals have given in and the conserva-dems have doubled down. Now in the end game the social conservatives are holding fast and everyone says it’s the House liberals who are the problem because they aren’t publicly cheering the notion that the House of Representatives is Ben Nelson’s bitch. Infuriating.

  89. 89
    Royce says:

    @El Cid: “What I’m asking for is some evidence to go along with the widespread suggestion that their efforts actually, empirically led to the situation we face now.”

    Whoa, dude, are you saying that Ralph Nader did not cause the deaths of a million Iraqi’s and global warming and and and and you’re EVIL that’s what! this is a site to elect DEMS so piss off and die a million deaths cuz this is a BIG TNET neiu[P A-78E7RAP TT /Dem activist

    From what I can see, anti-Nader scapegoating has seemingly made the Dem base into blind, blaming, ineffectual whiners.

    And Cole, I’ve watched this enigma of a man and he appears to be a winger who thinks/wishes he weren’t. His knee-jerk anger is normally against his own interests … what makes Cole so human and tragic (and why I’m a fan) is that he has the capacity to realize this and be honest with himself. After the fact. I cannot forget his fruit-tossing “morality” in making sure Spitzer was tagged, bagged and taken down so Wall Street could freely feed … there was no reasoning with Cole then, and I see no way to reason now. Hate is powerful, and scapegoating does serve a purpose if not a good one.

    I’ve found I don’t have much patience with those who prefer spitting on people fighting FOR their supposed goals rather than risk angering those working AGAINST them. It’s been weird to say the least. Progressive was only ever a label for the scapegoaters, it seems, a path to power for the Dem “base.” But it was Nader who got things done. Hmmm. Food for thought? No, not among the blamers, at least not yet. I think this is the cost of scapegoating: objectivity.

    And a special plea to Elie to shut her f’ing scapegoating piehole please quit the ritual abuse of fellow allies. It hasn’t worked. It won’t work. In fact, and I wouldn’t normally say this–though I might be starting a trend–from my perspective all this is on the whole blind scapegoating poo-flinging kossack sellout-enabling tribe … so I don’t wonder you are projecting and pointing fingers so hard. But no hard feelings, it’s only politics.

    Glad I calmed down before posting. I was getting worked up.

  90. 90
    Tsulagi says:

    Heck of a job, Democrats. Heck of a job.

    Yep. Think last spring or summer once or twice you said HCR was dead. I commented they would get a bill, though it may be pretty crappy, through and signed by end of year.

    Damn did I way overestimate their competence and underestimate their stomach for crappy.

    @El Cid: I’d go with that.

    @Napoleon: We got that on Monday. Ds really wouldn’t want to do favorable/unfavorable polling in our coffee and cafeteria areas anytime soon. But not a 31% increase, an average of around 11% on the three medical plans an employee can choose from.

    Well, on March 1, make that two plans. Seems the plan I and about 40% of the company have been enrolled in will no longer be offered by that carrier at any rate increase.

    Guess it had evildoer features like being able to freely choose a doctor and hospital not on a list, and the same coverage rates worldwide, not just in a local PPO network. Apparently the carrier preemptively blew up our Cadillac. BTW, props to the Dem who came up with that term; it has legs.

  91. 91
    Ruckus says:

    @debbie:
    And who exactly do you see standing up for democratic principles? 5-10% of congress? These are the people we elected to represent us. And most of them don’t. They represent the money. It’s a simple process really. Those with the most money win, everyone else gets to suck hind tit.

  92. 92
    Ruckus says:

    I must be on the fired up email list as I just got an emergency email to sign Jane’s petition for house progressives not to accept the senate bill. I’m thinking of responding fuck off but I may just ignore it as trying to talk to a lunatic usually just gets tiresome, with no progress.

  93. 93
    Ruckus says:

    @Elie:
    Khmer Rouge tactics without the bloody bodies
    Of course there are bloody bodies. Those 45K people that are not supposed to die if this passes. And some of those 45+ million without insurance and therefore meaningful health care will bleed needlessly. So yes Khmer Rouge tactics, but with bloody bodies.

  94. 94
    Elie says:

    @El Cid:

    I heard you, El — I just answered in turn, do you think that she had NO impact — that the screaming and crazy Grover Nordquist events really helped?

    No I cannot give you data supporting that they killed it and I know that they did not — though I believe they had influence in setting a general tone and making it day to day harder for the remaining advocates.

    So,if she and they did not want to kill the bill, where are they now? I picked up more than a little glee from the progressive activists leading me to think that they are happy with the outcome.

    Please clarify what your thinking is of 1) what their intent was 2) what was achieved and 3) how they feel about it now

  95. 95
    Elie says:

    @Royce:

    Same to you man, same to you

    Y’all want to blow up the bank to make it better and then get pissed off when others want you to account for your tactics and their very obvious results…

    While I fully recognize that some day all of us on more or less the same side are going to have to get along and work together, I am equally interested in telling YOU what to do with pie and other shiny objects in your various orifices

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