This Is So Convoluted That Only Teabaggers Could Come Up With It

Look what our new allies are up to now:

The end-all-regulation, my-health-insurance-company-is-just-fine-thanks crowd in the Tea Party movement have found an unlikely target for their next national effort: Corporate America.

The Tea Party Patriots group is planning a “National Day of Strike” for Jan. 20, one year to the day after President Obama’s inauguration. The goal of the strike, according to the website where it’s being planned, is to “financially cripple” the companies across America the group says are “backing the leftist agenda” and “funding socialism.”

How can you tell which companies are funding socialism? The answer, according to organizers: they advertise on CNN and/or MSNBC, and they donate money to Democratic candidates.

So they are going to cripple socialist businesses by striking for one day? That means they acknowledge their boss and employer is a socialist- why not quit? Striking for one day- don’t they call that a “sick day” or a “hangover” most places in the country? What happens when one of them gets fired? Will that be labeled socialist oppression by Big Hollywood?

Or do they actually mean they are going to boycott these companies? If that is the case, how the hell does a one day boycott work? Will anyone notice?

I’m sure glad some well-meaning progressives have decided to team up with these clowns. Maybe we can combine efforts- we can strike for a day, and during that day we can make incoherent attacks on Joe Lieberman’s wife.

*** Update ***

Via the comments:

Let’s not forget that she is actually out there doing real stuff. She raises a ton of money for progressive causes, and she is more effective than most bloggers at impacting the political dynamic. Anyone who puts themselves out front like that is going to make some mistakes, and she takes the heat like a warrior. She doesn’t whimper and whine—she comes back with a vengeance, witness the way she demolished Jed Lewison today:

http://firedoglake.com/2009/12…..iefreddie/

I’ve got a lot of respect for those who are in the trenches doing the real work. The blogosphere has more than it’s share of couch potatoes hiding behind their laptops while Jane is out there getting her hands dirty.

As for her alliance with Grover Norquist on the alleged misdeeds of Rahm Emmanuel, she will no doubt be happy to reveal that she thinks Norquist is a wacko on most issues— but if an unlikely combination of forces can actually achieve something, then I’m all for it.

The entrenched economic interests remain in control because they have succeeded in dividing the peasantry with hot button social issues like abortion, gun control, gay rights, and the environment. If the poor losers on the Left and the Right ever realize that they are both getting screwed equally by the likes of Goldman Sachs and Halliburton and General Electric, then maybe we can start to turn things around in this country. Jane takes the position that in some instances it is sensible and effective to join forces with those whose values you don’t generally share. For chrissake, Teddy Kennedy and Strom Thurmond worked together on the occasional piece of legislation. It’s called politics.

I can understand that. It is the methodology that is problematic.






410 replies
  1. 1
    General Winfield Stuck says:

    LOOky at the green eyed monster the Plutocrats created now come home to et them whole. Merry Christmas and what goes around comes around greedy beatchs.

  2. 2

    Dammit, JC. I’ll just leave her here. Note she is not pleased by the tone of the recent posts on this blog. She is going to be sending a sternly worded letter.

    ETA: on topic, this cannot end well. these people are idiots, etc., etc.

  3. 3
    CJ says:

    I’m betting these are the same geniuses who came up with the “DONT BUY GAS ON X” email chains.

  4. 4
    The Moar You Know says:

    Someone needs to point out to the Teabagger Brigade that this sort of thing doesn’t end well for special interest groups; in particular, I’m thinking of the “Day Without A Mexican” effort here in Southern California a couple of years ago that did not end well for the interest groups involved.

    I personally find it hilarious watching the teabaggers cycle through every failed protest stratagem of those they profess to despise, to wit, the left.

  5. 5
    Warren Terra says:

    Yup, the true socia!ist threat is big business. I’m sure Marx said something about the need to put the means of production in the hands of the stockholders. Still, it does explain Jonah’s book sales.

  6. 6
    maryQ says:

    So, um, if the lefties and teabaggers join forces to fight, um, Obama and um, corporate America, does that mean the rest of us are free to solve, you know, real problems and shit, and, like, live in an informed democracy?

    Cuz I’ll take that.

  7. 7
    CalD says:

    That’s right, damnit. Let’s show those dirty commies that the workers control the means of production…

  8. 8
    DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal) says:

    The teabaggers are trying to get lefties like Hamster to side with them so that hopefully they can get some basic training in protests and boycotts. The Teabaggers have realized that their protests look like Klan rallies and that’s not a very pretty picture for the rest of the country to see.

  9. 9
    SteveinSC says:

    They’ll soon be turning on one another: “Everyone’s queer socialist but thee and me and sometimes I wonder about thee”

  10. 10

    @DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal):

    The Teabaggers have realized that their protests look like Klan rallies and that’s not a very pretty picture for the rest of the country to see.

    Because the giant puppet heads look so much better?

  11. 11
    Midnight Marauder says:

    What happens when one of them gets fired? Will that be labeled socialist oppression by Big Hollywood?

    Yes. SATSQ.

    I know it’s the end of the year and all, Cole, but come on.

    Edit: And goddamn you, John Cole. I quoted you using the dreaded S-word and it got me stuck in moderation. This is starting to get RI-GODDAMN-DICULOUS!

  12. 12
    demkat620 says:

    I really don’t get this getting in bed with teabaggers.
    I would think that would be the last thing you’d want to do but, that’s just me.

    What’s next? Calling out an army of furries?

  13. 13

    @DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal): Well, considering that many on the far far left are purty white themselves…they may just blend in together.

    @arguingwithsignposts: Moar Smudge!

  14. 14
    calipygian says:

    I don’t think Tea Bagger Titan Glen Beck is going to be very happy when the Tea Baggers boycott Newsmax and Goldline.

  15. 15
    Kordo says:

    The parent of a good friend is a dedicated TeaBagger, and this is about the level of “strategy” I’ve heard from him and his fellows over the last several months. They have vague fears/hates directed at a variety of DemoSocioFascist boogeymen, and very little idea of how to go about attacking any of them. All the Liberal/Democratic hand-wringing over the 2010 mid-terms is gonna look pretty funny a few years from now. These folks are not a political force. Someone should send a memo to Michael Steele. On second thought, don’t. It’s too much fun to watch.

  16. 16
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    Oh great, more crazily insightful conflation. Yeah, we’re all working with the teabaggers. Yer a dumbass, John. A remarkably petty little dumbass.

  17. 17
    calipygian says:

    That’s right, damnit. Let’s show those dirty commies that the workers control the means of production…

    Hmmm…that’s pretty good. I think I’ll make a sign and go to one of these rallies.

    It might become the “Get your government hands off my Medicare” of 2010…

  18. 18
    Left Coast Tom says:

    This sounds like the “don’t buy gas for a day, protest gas prices” silliness a couple years ago – I wonder if the same dim bulbs are responsible. If my fuel gauge is flirting with E then I’m sure not going to strand myself just to make a silly point, and if I plan my gas purchase to avoid The Day then…who cares, I’ve bought the same amount of gas over time anyway.

    On the bright side, you should now be able to write about the “Jane Hamshers of the Left” in a way that actually includes Jane Hamsher.

  19. 19
    kth says:

    In a “right to work” (i.e., fire at will) state, you call in and tell your boss that you aren’t coming to work that day because he’s a big fat commie and he might tell you not to ever bother coming back.

    You might have more job protection in a more liberal state if you decided to skip work over a matter of conscience, but it wouldn’t be very libertarian of you to insist on it.

    Of course you and the three other Paultards at work could just call in sick that day, but how is the boss going to know that his hatred of free enterprise is the reason for your absence?

  20. 20
    gbear says:

    I’m staying ahead of the curve. I struck for two hours this afternoon. If anyone looks at my work output for today, they can say that I pretty much struck all day.

    Then I went out and picketted at a bus stop. Apparently the bus driver was striking because the bus didn’t show up for 55 minutes.

    We were all striking Tim Pawlenty’s trashing of MN though. We’re not as whacked as the teabaggers+fdl. We can see real damage when we see it.

    I wonder how fdl’s next pledge beg is going to go? Wonder if someday they’re going to wake up to find they’re on wingnut welfare? TBogg, please run away.

  21. 21
    Chad S says:

    The Teabaggers should finish each of their communiques with: “The Aristocrats!”

  22. 22

    @gbear: I love you, man. Thanks for the laughs. Yeah, I stopped going over to TBogg’s place. Was getting to be too much for me.

    Oh, and fuck Ratface Pawlenty.

  23. 23
    NovShmozKaPop says:

    @maryQ: So, um, if the lefties and teabaggers join forces to fight, um, Obama and um, corporate America, does that mean the rest of us are free to solve, you know, real problems and shit, and, like, live in an informed democracy?

    That’s going to be a LOT of work. Have you ever read The Marching Morons?

  24. 24

    @asiangrrlMN:
    I’m thinking smudge looks like she’s going galt, if only because you keep snatching up all teh hot commenters. ;)

  25. 25
    calipygian says:

    TBogg, please run away.

    And bring Spencer Ackerman with you.

  26. 26
    gbear says:

    @DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal):

    The Teabaggers have realized that their protests look like Klan rallies and that’s not a very pretty picture for the rest of the country to see.

    Even with her ‘help’, they’re still going to look like klan rallies.

  27. 27
    valdivia says:

    No no no, the communiques must end with “In Solidarity”. Come on guys!

  28. 28
    scudbucket says:

    @John Cole: I’m sure glad progressives have decided to team up with these clowns.

    And to show where Jane’s brains are at, here is her reason for hooking up with Norquist and (by extension) the Teabaggers to promote social change:

    the fact is that most “liberals” who work at institutions can’t step out and take a shot at Rahm, because Rahm would take it out on their organizations. That leaves the people on the right — those out of Rahm’s reach

    Eeeeegaaaads.

  29. 29
    Max says:

    I had an interesting conversation with two California Republicans.

    Their candidate of choice for 2012 – Sarah Palin

    Candidate they won’t vote for – Mittens (because he’s mormon)

    Between the GOP primary and the Jane Hamster’s of the Left trying to run Grover Norquist to primary Obama…

    2012 is gonna be fun.

  30. 30
    Tomlinson says:

    I’m really liking the thinking here. They decide to stop working, go galt, drop out because of our new socialist society (no doubt lead by Bernie Sanders, the corporate tool, but I digress.)

    They will therefore, ultimately be depending on said socialist society for support.

    And in the meanwhile, they do not seem to realize that making their entire voting base, erm, poorer is not the golden path to political power, even in our newly socialist society, especially since Bernie Sanders is such a corporate tool.

  31. 31
    Tomlinson says:

    the fact is that most “liberals” who work at institutions can’t step out and take a shot at Rahm, because Rahm would take it out on their organizations. That leaves the people on the right — those out of Rahm’s reach

    Oh dear. I think someone could do a 7 part, 70 minute long video critique of just that statement.

  32. 32

    @Max:

    2012 is gonna be fun.

    If by “fun” you mean AsiangrrlMN’s rusty pitchfork, then yeah.

  33. 33
    General Winfield Stuck says:

    @Max:

    2012 is gonna be fun.

    Circus from Hell.

    Clowns to the left and right of me.

    Maybe the Mayan’s knew something we don’t?

  34. 34
    gbear says:

    @asiangrrlMN:

    Love you too. How are you surviving the blizzard of the century? Screwed up morning rush hour but seems to have turned into a bit of a dud this afternoon. Still two days to go though…

  35. 35
    valdivia says:

    @scudbucket:

    huh? what the hell is up with that? Do I need to get a special thinking cap to understand this?

  36. 36
    MikeJ says:

    because Rahm would take it out on their organizations.

    Rahm and the Gnomes of Zurich, using the Mind Control Lasers and the American Autoduel Association, will destroy the Boy Sprouts.

  37. 37

    @asiangrrlMN: I read through the comments section over at TBogg’s place and I was disappointed to see a couple of old BJ regulars going off the deep end and wondering if they it would have been better to vote for Hillary. Sigh. So TBogg’s is another place I like but I don’t read the comments section anymore.

  38. 38
    scudbucket says:

    @valdivia: Here’s the link to the quote.

  39. 39
    ==-+ says:

    As has been pointed out this is the same thing as the gas boycotts.

    The mighty snopes sez:

    The premise behind all these messages is inherently flawed, because consumers’ not buying gasoline on one particular day doesn’t affect oil companies at all. The “gas out” scheme doesn’t call upon people to use less gasoline, but simply to shift their date of purchase and buy gas a day earlier or later than they usually would The very same amount of gasoline is sold either way, so oil companies don’t lose any money.

    Of course, since Snopes is a fact checking website, it’s liberal by nature, so I doubt any wingnut would have read it.

  40. 40

    @General Winfield Stuck: Jesse Taylor had a great tweet a couple of months ago: Bachmann/Palin 2012, The Mayans were right. But quite frankly, with all the stupid out there this year, you just have to go hmmmmm sometimes.

    Amanda Marcotte has a great take on the Biggest Breakup Evah.

  41. 41
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @General Winfield Stuck:

    Maybe the Mayan’s knew something we don’t?

    Of course they did, Stuck. Why do you think they’re not around to watch this clusterfuck unfold in real time?

  42. 42
    General Winfield Stuck says:

    @The Grand Panjandrum:

    Before it’s all said and done, we may have to build a mote around BJ and stock it with hungry Piranha, or a herd of PUMA eating Unicorns.

  43. 43
    Jay Schiavone says:

    Cole, Perhaps you can get together with Quentin Tarantino synergize your resentment of Jane.

  44. 44
    General Winfield Stuck says:

    @Jay Schiavone:

    It ain’t resentment of Jane, it’s Jane’s behavior

  45. 45
    Corner Stone says:

    @General Winfield Stuck: As long as Cole has you and your fearless toy dinosaur as his trusty First Lieutenants he can’t possibly go wrong.

  46. 46
    valdivia says:

    @scudbucket:

    thanks, I think? I don’t know that I have the stomach to read the whole thing but it just makes no sense to me. Her point is that Rahm is so ever powerful that the democrats wont be able to stand his pressure only the mighty republicans? I guess we know where she stands eh?

  47. 47
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @valdivia:

    thanks, I think? I don’t know that I have the stomach to read the whole thing but it just makes no sense to me. Her point is that Rahm is so ever powerful that the democrats wont be able to stand his pressure only the mighty republicans?

    That is pretty central to her point, I guess.

  48. 48
    General Winfield Stuck says:

    @Corner Stone:

    We are called minions, and there are lot more of them than I.

    And your obsession with this one is getting more than a little creepy.

  49. 49
    mey says:

    I’m sure glad progressives have decided to team up with these clowns.

    Eh? Which “progressives”?

  50. 50
    MikeJ says:

    @Jay Schiavone: I would be surprised if QT gave more than two seconds of thought to her in the past ten years. Before Reservoir Dogs? Absolutely. Before Pulp Fiction? Maybe. After either? I’d be shocked.

    Speaking of QT et al, a Lawrence Bender produced flick comes on tv tonight. The funny thing is, the host of Wait Wait, don’t Tell Me, Peter whassisname, wrote a historical romance set during the Cuban revolution. Bender got it made as Dirty Dancing II, Havana Nights.

  51. 51

    So, BJ and Sadly, No! are there any more out there? How many have been delinked. Oh, the huge manitee!

  52. 52
    valdivia says:

    @Midnight Marauder:

    So in her mind the real fighters are republicans not democrats? Talk about adopting the frame of your enemies! I hate that BTW and think that is a bigger problem that a lot of people pay no attention to–talking about Obama in the way Republicans do. Not done man! Criticize but not with Republican talking points.

    So if she likes the strategies and stylings of the Reps so much I guess she is in the right place. Hope the door hits her on the way out.

  53. 53
    mcd410x says:

    “All that most maddens and torments; all that stirs up the lees of things; all truth with malice in it; all that cracks the sinews and cakes the brain; all the subtle demonisms of life and thought; all evil, to crazy Ahab, were visibly personified, and made practically assailable in Moby Dick. He piled upon the whale’s white hump the sum of all the general rage and hate felt by his whole race from Adam down; and then, as if his chest had been a mortar, he burst his hot heart’s shell upon it.”

    I got nuthin.

    (Totally stole that from TNC).

  54. 54
    John Cole says:

    I like Jane. She has always been very nice to me. I just want her to back up a notch. She’s aligning with teabaggers and Norquist, she’s calling for Rahm to be fired/resign and then investigate to see if he has done wrong, the attacks on Lieberman’s wife were fucking incoherent and pointless the way they were launched (and I too am sick of Lieberman and sick of the scam many Senators have with their wives serving on boards and buckraking).

    And Just Some Fuckhead- I haven’t conflated anything- she specifically called for an alignment for teabaggers because they share the same anti-corporate sentiment. Here they are with their big plans to demonstrate anti-corporate sentiment. Seems like it is gonna be a real doozy.

    Also, notice anything about the date they plan to hold the “strike?” Wonder if there is anything else going on that day that they are going to try to shit all over. Wonder what that could be?

    But I’m petty for noticing.

  55. 55
    ds says:

    How did FireDogLake become a representative of “progressives” or “the left”?

    Basic polling disproves this. The vast majority of self-described liberals approve of Obama.

    Progressives in the House aren’t talking about “killing the bill.” Louise Slaughter walked back her comments, and she never even claimed she would vote against the bill.

    $200 billion per year in insurance subsidies to low income individuals is the single biggest wealth transfer to the bottom that we’ve seen in American history. Yes, the insurance company leeches are going to skim 10% off that, but it’s still worth it.

    What you have is a bunch of whiny jerks with no understanding of health care policy, the incredible political difficulties of reform, and the suffering inherent in our current system, who basically viewed reform not as an attempt to help the working poor and the uninsured, but as an attempt to crush the insurance companies.

    This bill is “too big to fail” by now. But in the slight chance that it does, I guarantee that it will be the fault of some obnoxious “centrist,” not a liberal.

  56. 56

    @John Cole: Let us not forget these are the same teabaggers who want to keep the gummint out of Medicare. I guess boycotting corporations makes about as much sense, no?

    Hamsher is still on our team. She’s just making the wrong call by teaming up with people Grover. This IS NOT the equivalent of Net Neutrality. In that case both the Left and Right wanted the same final outcome. For healthcare that is not the case.

  57. 57
    Mnemosyne says:

    So the message I’m getting here is that I should postpone the purchase of my Christmas present to myself (a 32GB iPod Touch, if you’re curious) to January 20th so I can counteract this stupid protest by buying something from one of those evil librul companies.

    Nah, not worth it, especially since Amazon will probably have a good price on them starting Saturday.

  58. 58
    Bubblegum Tate says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    I personally find it hilarious watching the teabaggers cycle through every failed protest stratagem of those they profess to despise, to wit, the left.

    Ditto. I’m just waiting for a drum circle to break out.

  59. 59
    bago says:

    They are going Galt for one day. Seriously? I await the economic apocalypse.

  60. 60

    @ds: I guess everyone on Welfare and/or Food Stamps spends their money at the local food coop and NOT Walmart.

  61. 61
    Ian says:

    @Kordo:

    Someone should send a memo to Michael Steele.

    How would that solve anything?

  62. 62
    Ana Gama says:

    So….is Freedom Works and Faux going to participate in this adventure, too?

  63. 63
    gbear says:

    Also, notice anything about the date they plan to hold the “strike?”

    Is that the date of the state of the union address?

  64. 64
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @valdivia:

    So in her mind the real fighters are republicans not democrats? Talk about adopting the frame of your enemies! I hate that BTW and think that is a bigger problem that a lot of people pay no attention to—talking about Obama in the way Republicans do. Not done man! Criticize but not with Republican talking points.

    From my readings on the matter, it would seem that republicans/right-wing types are “real fighters” in this instance only because they are outside of the reach of The Mighty Rahmbo. That’s pretty much what it comes down to, if you’re looking at things through the same crazy prism that Jane seems to be using:

    “Democrats/Progressives are afraid to say anything bad about Obama or the HCR bill because Rahm Emmanuel’s reach is so powerful and all-encompassing that he would destroy any democratic activism group who so much as thought about speaking a negative peep about the Obama Administration. So in order to combat this, we need to shine the light on Rahm’s corruption–the same corruption that was investigated three times (I believe) during the Bush era–and then, magically, they will all have to fear us.”

    @John Cole:

    the attacks on Lieberman’s wife were fucking incoherent and pointless the way they were launched (and I too am sick of Lieberman and sick of the scam many Senators have with their wives serving on boards and buckraking).

    But John, wasn’t that the Most Important Thing In The World in Jane’s mind for quite some time? I mean, she put Lieberman’s wife square in her crosshairs once he really started mucking things up in the Senate. But now that the bill is going to pass, Lieberman’s ugly mug is fading off of everyone’s television sets, and she’s not going to get her way…silence. I haven’t seen a single post or blurb about that whole “movement” in many a moon. It’s completely fallen off the radar now that Big Bad Rahm is public enemy #1. No one has been more successful at destroying Jane Hamsher’s credibility in recent times than Jane Hamsher.

  65. 65
    John Cole says:

    @gbear: We have a winner. But really, these guys are just motivated by anti-corporate interests. That is why they want to surround the capitol with strikers.

    Anyone who goes along with or legitimizes these people from the left is brain-damaged. You know what happens in a two-party system when you throw one party out of office.

    Hint- A “better” Democrat will not replace Obama.

    But again, I’m just a hater and petty and an Obot and, of course, a corporate shill for saying this.

  66. 66
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    @John Cole: John Cole:

    I’m sure glad progressives have decided to team up with these clowns.

    I’ve had my fill of yer idiocy. This is my GBCW.

  67. 67
    ds says:

    @ds: I guess everyone on Welfare and/or Food Stamps spends their money at the local food coop and NOT Walmart.

    Wal-Mart provides a socially desirable service.

    The only role of insurance companies is to underwrite policies based on medical history and risk characteristics. One major plank of reform is to get them to stop doing this, because it prevents sick people from getting the care they need.

    Buying off the insurance companies was a necessary bargain. Any “liberal” who thinks it’s more important to stick it to insurance companies than to save 45,000 lives a year is just insane.

  68. 68
    General Winfield Stuck says:

    @ds:

    Progressives in the House aren’t talking about “killing the bill.” Louise Slaughter walked back her comments, and she never even claimed she would vote against the bill.

    No they aren’t, some are posturing to get some things in the conference added, some are saying they are disappointed about not getting PO, and a few like Kucinich who like to be noticed will vote against such a bill without a PO.

    But none of them are calling Obama a sellout, or withdrawing any support of him whatsoever, and certainly not taking up with the wingnuts. They know full well the senates role in these things, and will accept an historic HCR bill with the good stuff in it, and the good stuff left out. And plan for the next round of reform, and so on.

    When dems on this blog and elsewhere get to this point of disappointment but loyalty to a dem presnit in tact, and acceptance of what is really to blame for that disappointment, I will quit calling them PUMA’s, but until then.

  69. 69
    r€nato says:

    @MikeJ:

    come on over, let’s play Illuminati! I haven’t dusted mine off in years :(

  70. 70
    Rock says:

    Has anyone commented on how awesome it is that they are going to use collective labor action to combat socialism? Cause that is awesome.

  71. 71
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Tomlinson:

    And in the meanwhile, they do not seem to realize that making their entire voting base, erm, poorer is not the golden path to political power, even in our newly socialist society, especially since Bernie Sanders is such a corporate tool.

    To be fair, these are the same people who think that tax cuts increase tax revenues. You know — morons.

  72. 72
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Bubblegum Tate:

    Ditto. I’m just waiting for a drum circle to break out.

    When do they start building the giant puppets?

  73. 73
    valdivia says:

    I am watching Good Night and Good Luck on netflix instant. Great fucking movie.

  74. 74
    Seebach says:

    The #1 issue we need to be concerned about is how we’re going to get anything done with a 60 vote minimum. Obama and Kos better get on a similar page here.

  75. 75
    Tomlinson says:

    From my readings on the matter, it would seem that republicans/right-wing types are “real fighters” in this instance only because they are outside of the reach of The Mighty Rahmbo.

    This makes me teh sad. I was thinking The Mighty Rahmbo was more Powerful than this, but if he only has Power over the hippies, his Power is indeed weak.

  76. 76
    gbear says:

    @John Cole:

    Anyone who goes along with or legitimizes these people from the left is brain-damaged.

    Man, typing that must have felt like old times. It’s deja vu all over again. ;)

  77. 77
    Tomlinson says:

    @Rock:

    Has anyone commented on how awesome it is that they are going to use collective labor action to combat socialism? Cause that is awesome.

    This is deeply satisfying, isn’t it?

  78. 78
    Mnemosyne says:

    Speaking of TBogg, it’s a little weird to me that he put a link in his Christmas Eve post to Jane’s rant about Rahm Emmanuel (or, as he puts it, “the whole Rahm brouhahakerfufflepalooza”) and then closed the comments section for that post.

    Is this like when prisoners of war would try to send messages by blinking in Morse code while reading the script their captors required?

  79. 79
    Shell says:

    The goal of the strike, according to the website where it’s being planned, is to “financially cripple”

    Hmm. Sounds like someone has a hazy memory of seeing the movie, “Gandhi.” Especially the scenes where he calls for a national day of ‘prayer and fasting’ but of course amounts to a national strike. The Indians being the ones doing most of the real day to day work, the country comes to a halt, and the Brits have a bit of a freak-out.

  80. 80
    jeffreyw says:

    Cuing “Il Divo”.

  81. 81
    CalD says:

    Shouldn’t we all be out fighting the war on Christmas right now?

  82. 82
    valdivia says:

    @Tomlinson:

    the problem as I see it, is that Hamsher sees Republicans as strong and the Dems as weak. She simply adopts the frame that Republicans can always fight it all while dems just get slapped again and again and are saps. I think it has little to do with Rahm but with an internalized belief of the all power of Republicans. Though Rahmbo seems to be taking the proportions of a comic-book villain in her mental universe.

  83. 83
    rs says:

    @General Winfield Stuck: So you’re what, the bouncer here? The resident scold? Please, what the fuck is a PUMA, and why is a threat from you to call someone that supposed to keep them from calling Obama a lapdog to Wall Street?

  84. 84
    Malron says:

    I got knocked offline for 24 hours so I’m a little late to the game.

    After all the frustration of dealing with manic-progressives for the past couple of weeks, this morning’s healthcare vote combined will the blitzkrieg on Hamsher at the GOS is like the two best Christmas presents this inadequate black man could ever hope for.

    Also: the final passage only required 51 votes but got 60. Shweet.

  85. 85
    gbear says:

    @Rock:

    Has anyone commented on how awesome it is that they are going to use collective labor action to combat socia!ism?

    LOL. great observation.

    I can’t wait to see how it works out the first time they all try to go out for a beer together. That should be fun.

  86. 86
    gizmo says:

    I’m having a hard time figuring out what the hell is going on in this country. Obama is busy handing over the economy to the Corporate Sector, but meanwhile the Teabaggers are convinced that he is leading us down the dark path to Socialism. One can only hope that our TV news signals aren’t leaking out into the broader universe. If a technologically superior alien civilization gets wind of the shit that is going on down here, we are toast.

  87. 87
    Tomlinson says:

    I think it has little to do with Rahm but with an internalized belief of the all power of Republicans.

    OK, but wait a minute. I thought the dems were about to come for the republicans? I mean, that’s there’s all this wild ammo buying going on, right?

    It is sort of funny. When the republicans freak out, they buy ammo and guns. When the dems freak out, they buy dried food and seeds and medical supplies and shit. Put the two together, you’ve actually got a good shot at surviving armageddon.

  88. 88
    General Winfield Stuck says:

    @rs:

    Party Unity My Ass – PUMA

    And everyone is a bouncer here and everyone is a scold. I say what I want, you say what you want. That is how it works.

  89. 89
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Tomlinson:

    I thought the dems were about to come for the republicans? I mean, that’s there’s all this wild ammo buying going on, right?

    No, the ammo buying is because President Blackity Blackiston is going to send his black army of black dudes to your door to take away your guns right in front of your wife.

    This link is only tangenitally related, but touches on the same subject and is one of my new favorite Christmas stories: David Sedaris’ “Six to Eight Black Men.”

  90. 90
    rs says:

    @General Winfield Stuck: I guess, and some of them are funny, many of them smart, but you seem to be the only one stomping your feet and making a dumb-ass threat to call people some silly acronym.

  91. 91
    valdivia says:

    @Tomlinson:

    OK, but wait a minute. I thought the dems were about to come for the republicans? I mean, that’s there’s all this wild ammo buying going on, right?

    because Obama is a Chicago-thug with his evil intimidating ways (quote provided this morning by one republican senator to this effect) and also at the same time a total wimp, who gets rolled by Nelson, Lieberman, etc and is controlled by the Elders of Rahm. And who is as we speak also trying to become a tyrannical dictator for life. I really don’t know how it all fits together–too much cognitive dissonance for moi–but the lingo of the Kill the Bill folks and the republicans about Obama is identical and just as incoherent and contradictory.

  92. 92

    @rs:

    what the fuck is a PUMA

    Party Unity My Ass. We have something for that.

  93. 93
    valdivia says:

    @rs:

    um, no. Our host himself called these people PUMA’s and I would probably assume they are too. Though lately we think most of the impetus comes from the NOKIAS (the only Kucinich can save us group)

  94. 94
  95. 95
  96. 96
    General Winfield Stuck says:

    @rs:

    The statement I made about stopping calling some here a PUMA was an answer to comments ongoing in other threads criticizing my using that acronym to describe their mindset.

    And from a long list of perjoratives leveled by both sides of this dispute for the past couple of weeks. It was not meant as a threat of any kind, and I am sorry you took it that way.

  97. 97
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @valdivia:

    Though Rahmbo seems to be taking the proportions of a comic-book villain in her mental universe.

    If you immerse yourself in FDL Land, Rahm Emmanuel is like a modern-day, real life Dr. Manhattan.

  98. 98
    Tomlinson says:

    @valdivia:

    because Obama is a Chicago-thug with his evil intimidating ways

    Yes, and he’s also a mere community organizer, *wink*, and we all know how ineffective they are.

    Truly a venn diagram would be useful.

  99. 99

    @CalD:

    Shouldn’t we all be out fighting the war on Christmas right now?

    Ha! Thanks for the comic relief.

  100. 100
    Martin says:

    I protested the soshulist corporate agenda by setting my Jesus Pine on fire. 2 Barbies, a Wii Sports Resort, and a bucket of Legos were gloriously sacrificed for the cause.

    Big Brother was watching, however, and sent the jackbooted commie thugs to put the protest out before it spread to the 2nd floor where I had arranged a cornucopia of liberal wares – Gap clothing, an iPod, and all of our indoor cookware but the heat and water was sufficient to melt and ruin most of it.

    Now that I’ve made bail, we’ll be buying more liberal wares to burn on Jan 20. We’ll bring those corporate wealth-redistributers to their knees!

  101. 101
    General Winfield Stuck says:

    is liable to draw accusations about “bitter PUMA holdouts”, usually with a strong misogynistic overtone.

    Now I wonder who inserted this in the definitions? I will say my use of it these days has nothing to do with Hillary Clinton or any overtones of misogyny , that is described as “dead enders” in the lexicon I thought.

    Times change and definitions should also, I think.

  102. 102
    John Cole says:

    The problem is who they are mad at and how they are going about it. I’m as mad as hell at the bankers, and a bunch of you were telling me I was way too over the top in agreeing with the fact that Obama is too cozy with the bankstas. I disagree- he is too cozy with them, but so is everyone in DC. I’m fully in favor of knocking them down a peg.

    But flailing about, pretending the tea party activists, funded by freedom works and americans for prosperity and koch foundation groups are motivated by anti-corporate sentiment and have the same goals as the left, calling for people to be fired before there is an investigation (and there actually was an investigation), going after Joe Lieberman’s wife, etc.

    That doesn’t accomplish anything. It just makes people ignore you. Yes, they are paying attention NOW, but in a few weeks, it will just be “Oh those crazy progressives,” much the way we basically dismiss anything the teabaggers do or say.

    I just don’t see what this approach does, and I don’t think progressives will have much success riding the right-wing populist tiger. Look what happened to Newt.

  103. 103
    valdivia says:

    @arguingwithsignposts:

    smudge! what a scary cutie.

  104. 104
    gizmo says:

    Re: Jane Hamsher–

    Let’s not forget that she is actually out there doing real stuff. She raises a ton of money for progressive causes, and she is more effective than most bloggers at impacting the political dynamic. Anyone who puts themselves out front like that is going to make some mistakes, and she takes the heat like a warrior. She doesn’t whimper and whine– she comes back with a vengeance, witness the way she demolished Jed Lewison today:

    http://firedoglake.com/2009/12.....iefreddie/

    I’ve got a lot of respect for those who are in the trenches doing the real work. The blogosphere has more than it’s share of couch potatoes hiding behind their laptops while Jane is out there getting her hands dirty.

    As for her alliance with Grover Norquist on the alleged misdeeds of Rahm Emmanuel, she will no doubt be happy to reveal that she thinks Norquist is a wacko on most issues– but if an unlikely combination of forces can actually achieve something, then I’m all for it.

    The entrenched economic interests remain in control because they have succeeded in dividing the peasantry with hot button social issues like abortion, gun control, gay rights, and the environment. If the poor losers on the Left and the Right ever realize that they are both getting screwed equally by the likes of Goldman Sachs and Halliburton and General Electric, then maybe we can start to turn things around in this country. Jane takes the position that in some instances it is sensible and effective to join forces with those whose values you don’t generally share. For chrissake, Teddy Kennedy and Strom Thurmond worked together on the occasional piece of legislation. It’s called politics.

  105. 105
    valdivia says:

    @Midnight Marauder:

    please don’t make me! I take your word… and given what i see quoted she really seems to have invested him with crazy powers eh?
    @Tomlinson:

    I don’t think there is a dimension where you can actually map these folks on a diagram. ;-)

  106. 106
    General Winfield Stuck says:

    @gizmo: LOL

    Grover Norquist — Anti- corporate working class hero.

  107. 107
    UncleHuntski says:

    I’ve been reading BJ almost daily for about a year and a half but have only commented around 3 times, so please bear with me. I went over to FDL to see for myself what was going on with the whole Rahm thing, and all I saw was a lot of liberal on liberal violence in the comments, disturbingly reminiscent of how you’d expect a moderate Republican to be treated at RedState. And I’m afraid Ms. Hamsher’s most loyal followers can’t see that they are mirroring behavior they themselves have castigated in the right wing this entire year.

    At least a majority of the commenters in the ‘petition against Bernie Sanders’ post stood up for him, so it isn’t all spiraling down the drain yet.

    It just seems that most people are too willing to take a side before the evidence is in (or even the wrong side after it’s in). Maybe it’s a cult of personality thing, or just pissing on the hydrant to mark/protect your perceived territory. Either way, this particular line of attack against the WH COS seems like a waste of resources to me.

  108. 108
    Mnemosyne says:

    @gizmo:

    If the poor losers on the Left and the Right ever realize that they are both getting screwed equally by the likes of Goldman Sachs and Halliburton and General Electric, then maybe we can start to turn things around in this country.

    And Grover “drown the government in a bathtub” Norquist is going to lead us to this promised land?

    It might be halfway plausible if it was Bob Barr since he broke with the Republicans and went pure libertarian a few years ago, but Grover “Jack Abramoff’s unindicted co-conspirator” Norquist is going to free us all from the clutches of corporate control?

    Okay, I’ll say more once I stop laughing. I really hope you weren’t one of the people claiming we shouldn’t listen to Kevin Drum about the healthcare bill since he was wrong about Iraq because that would be hypocrisy of nuclear proportions.

  109. 109
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @gizmo:

    Jane takes the position that in some instances it is sensible and effective to join forces with those whose values you don’t generally share. For chrissake, Teddy Kennedy and Strom Thurmond worked together on the occasional piece of legislation. It’s called politics.

    We know what politics is. Teaming up with people who would wish you and everything you care about dead and eviscerated and who will never share anything resembling your “values” is just fundamentally moronic. That’s the point. There is no common interest to ever be found with the types in the teabagger set.

    It’s delusional at best and a cynical ratfuck at worst.

  110. 110
    eemom says:

    @John Cole:

    She won’t be nice to you any more if you come right out and say she’s wrong about something. Trust me on this.

    Ex. A, Ezra Klein. Ex. B, Booman. Ex. C, All The Evil Obots at Kos. And on and on.

    “So, John Cole, how do you defend what Rahm did at Fannie Mae?”

  111. 111
    gocart mozart says:

    If the proletariat owned the means of production like Marx promised us would happen by now, the teabaggers would be calling for a general strike against themselves.

  112. 112
    rs says:

    @John Cole: I’m not sure that all, most, or even any of the teabaggers have much of a sense of what their goal is. There’s most likely an underlying fear of a black president and brown people that binds them together. But I think there’s also a seething populist rage at bankers, at Wall Street, at what they sense but probably can’t define as growing wealth inequality and job insecurity, that maybe, just maybe, could be exploited and channeled positively the same way Fox and the Kochs are exploiting their hatred. You know that when some old person is bitching about the government keeping it’s hands off their Medicare, there’s not a lot of deep thinking present. I think that us (you know, the smart ones) consciously trying to find that place where we’re all bitching about the same thing might represent the best chance we have to reduce the influence of corporate Washington.

  113. 113
    gocart mozart says:

    @rs:
    And the teabaggers will lay down with the liberals, the lion with the lamb, the KKK (also disillusioned working class whites) will form an alliance with the NAACP, cats living with dogs, and so on.

  114. 114
    gizmo says:

    Mnemosyne, Midnight Marauder –

    Since y’all are so pure and principled, please outline for us just how you plan to get anything done if you’re unwilling to join the occasional alliance with others who you find politically unsavory. At present we’ve got a 20-seat majority in the Senate, a huge majority in the House, a center-left Democrat in the White House, and we still can’t get shit done. Our political system is plainly busted and dysfunctional.
    If you can’t bear the thought of reaching across the aisle to get some important things accomplished, then exactly how are we going to proceed? I hope the weather is peachy up there in your ivory tower.

  115. 115
    clone12 says:

    Right, so when Obama is working with Joe Lieberman to pass a bill, he’s “selling out”, but when Jane Hamsher is working with Grover Norquist, it’s “just politics”.

    Count me out of this People’s Front of Liberal Purity Jihad.

  116. 116
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @eemom:

    She won’t be nice to you any more if you come right out and say she’s wrong about something. Trust me on this.
    __
    Ex. A, Ezra Klein. Ex. B, Booman. Ex. C, All The Evil Obots at Kos. And on and on.
    __
    “So, John Cole, how do you defend what Rahm did at Fannie Mae?”

    This made me laugh so, so very hard.

    Dear Jane:

    And Rahm — well, he’s safe. From today’s gaggle on Air Force One with Deputy Press Secretary Bill Burton:
    __
    Q Is Rahm going to keep his job despite Jane Hamsher and Grover Norquist?
    __
    MR. BURTON: I have the feeling that Rahm’s job is very safe.
    __
    What can you say, it got their attention.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Yeah, you really got their attention, Jane. You are the man woman now, dawg! More from the Seminal (of Terrible):

    Well… at least we know Mr. Burton’s job is safe for a while.

    In case anyone missed it when I said it earlier, this was mentioned on Fox a little less than an hour ago. They said Jane’s name and put it on the screen a couple of times with the letter, and said the White House hasn’t responded yet, but that they’re working on getting it. I’m also wondering why they and others in the media aren’t getting a response from the AG and Justice.

    Yeah, Jane. That sure is the way to get the public option back make yourself politically irrelevant amongst your colleagues and peers.

    Wow, Jane, they know your name! I guess your quest for personal fame is accomplished! /kosbot

    That all of you people are willing to bend over for this joke is exactly why it took only a handful of sellouts – who call themselves Democrats, though they are not – to shit all over this opportunity to achieve real health care reform and why Obama and Reid are more afraid of them than they are of you.

    So what do you think of the fact that the White House just gave itself the right to pump unlimited cash into an entity with no oversight?

    Take a guess as to who that one is from.

    You sound so Kos like. Attack the messenger. Stomp the victim . They don’t even like Cindy Shaheen.
    __
    But they do like obamarahm.

    During Bush’s second term, even most of his own base started to see that he was a failure. Too bad it took his base so long to realize the obvious. Why did it take them so long?
    __
    We, on the other hand, see what way too many in Obama’s base aren’t ready to see yet.
    __
    How can anyone seriously support any president as he pulls tom-fuckery on the American people? I’d be more than happy if Obama were to fight for the common good and the best interests of the American people. But he’s not. Till he changes course – and till others in his base see that he’s screwing around for all the wrong reasons and screwing us all over in the process – I’ll speak out against him.
    __
    Call me PUMA. Call me Firebagger. Call me the last true Progressive standing.

    That is by far my favorite comment. Firebagger? Wow, I am LOLlerskating all over the place with that one. “The Last True Progressive Standing?” Is that a new reality show on MSNBC or something? Yikes! I swear, these firebaggers are a fucking never-ending goldmine.

  117. 117
    rs says:

    @gocart mozart: So I guess we should believe everyone sitting down at Fisher Body 75 years ago was a socially enlightened liberal. You want to believe in a fantasy, believe in one that has working class culture wars trumping the class war and meaningful change resulting.

  118. 118
    Xboxershorts says:

    Whether we approve or not, whether it makes you ill to even consider it, the “Teabaggers” really are the only group to approach in terms of allignment. Well, not really the teabaggers, per say. But those who made up Reagan’s southern strategy. the DixieCrats. Many of whom are teabagggers, but not all.

    But really, think it through. Frank Zappa had it mostly correct in his infamous interview with John Lofton on CNN’s crossfire in ’86 I think. Every move made by Reagan was dragging us down the road towards a fascist theocracy.

    Hell, they’ve been promised reform of Roe v Wade at the federal level for the past 30+ years and it’s never happened. Sure some have tried, but it never even came close.
    But in reality, the corporate interests that invaded our government couldn’t give 2 shits if the theocrats occupied the POTUS. They don’t care because they call all the real shots.

    it would be a theocracy in name only. But government is already fascist in reality.

    And the progressive block of the democratic party will never have enough political power, on their own, to make a difference. That’s the reality.

    Real political power comes from the people.

    And th eonly way to increase the political power of the progressive “movement”, is to win over more people. And where ya gonna get em from?

    You’ll ONLY draw these new recruits from a pool of disaffected voters. of which the teabaggers have MANY.

    And truth and reality are the only real tools available. They have to be made aware of the fact that they’ve been screwed over and used and lied to so that the corporate whores could acquire power.

    I hate Grover Norquist. but if he’s willing to work with us in this instance, well, that gives some degree of credibility to “the looney left” progressive movement in the eyes of those who look up to Grover.

    And Rahm Emanual IS a worthy target. As are FAR TOO MANY in positions of power in this administration.

  119. 119
    General Winfield Stuck says:

    @clone12:

    Are you really serious? Jeebus, we have entered something altogether weird. Lieberman is a sitting us senator that caucuses with the dems, and like, has a vote in the senate.

    And Norquist is a money grubbing wingnut sewer trout who would cut the political throat any democrat if he could.
    With a vote only on who pays for the next round of Hookers at a C street sin party.
    Shark Jump.

  120. 120
    calipygian says:

    Bipartisanship is just another word for date rape“.

    – Grover Norquist.

    Since Jane ain’t screamin’ “No!”, I guess this just means its a hate fuck on Grover’s part.

  121. 121
    Seebach says:

    @gizmo: Okay, this is just bullshit, and you know it. There’s a difference between working with Republicans and working with movement conservative activists with a history of baiting and trapping the left. If I need to spell this out to you, you’re pretty far gone and I’ve lost hope.

  122. 122
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @gizmo:

    Since y’all are so pure and principled, please outline for us just how you plan to get anything done if you’re unwilling to join the occasional alliance with others who you find politically unsavory. At present we’ve got a 20-seat majority in the Senate, a huge majority in the House, a center-left Democrat in the White House, and we still can’t get shit done. Our political system is plainly busted and dysfunctional.
    If you can’t bear the thought of reaching across the aisle to get some important things accomplished, then exactly how are we going to proceed? I hope the weather is peachy up there in your ivory tower.

    It’s not that there’s something inherently wrong with reaching out to people who are typically ideological opponents of yours. The problem is in who you reach out to on the other side. Grover Fucking Norquist is an unacceptable “teammate” no matter how you slice it. Fact.

    And maybe the reason nothing can get anything done isn’t because we aren’t teaming up with teabaggers, but rather that our political institutions are intractably broken at this moment in time and there is a substantial deficit of public attention on why this is the case and what can be done to fix it. That’s why I think if Jane was actually serious about anything she’s been saying or doing relating to HCR, she would be focusing her efforts on something like filibuster reform or ensuring that the bill was improved once it hits conference. But she hasn’t been doing that, has she? If she’s not going after Lieberman’s wife, it’s Big Bad Rahm who needs to be stopped.

    She’s a fucking joke, son. A joke.

  123. 123
    Chad S says:

    @gizmo: Teddy and Strom didn’t really have a choice in the matter, they were the ranking members of the judiciary committee for decades(centuries in Strom’s case). Hamshear can pick better conservative bedfellows than Norquist, especially when he literally won’t back anything else she wants to push unless it has “Fuck Obama” as a motive.

  124. 124
    General Winfield Stuck says:

    Call me the last true Progressive standing.

    I thought that was fuckhead, but he quit us, I think.

  125. 125
    Seebach says:

    @Xboxershorts: The fact that you believe the teabaggers are anti-corporate proves that you do not know any of them personally.

  126. 126
    The Moar You Know says:

    Since y’all are so pure and principled, please outline for us just how you plan to get anything done if you’re unwilling to join the occasional alliance with others who you find politically unsavory.

    @gizmo: Every piece of legislation bought to the House and Senate this year has passed, and every one of them passed without a single Republican vote.

    So I guess that makes you full of shit.

    Say hi to Jane when you get your tongue out of her ass.

  127. 127
    rs says:

    @General Winfield Stuck: Hey, you can be funny. Pretending that Lieberman isn’t a “money grubbing wingnut sewer trout” because he’s a senator when in fact it’s what makes him a senator.
    Good one.

  128. 128

    @gizmo:

    Our political system is plainly busted and dysfunctional.

    Read Amanda Marcotte’s analysis of this current brouhaha. It makes a lot sense.

    The real problem is that we have activists who aren’t all that effective as organizers. Being an activist doesn’t make you an effective organizer. I’ll take the community organizer (and this is not a vague reference to Obama) over the activist any day. I would also recommend leaving reaching across the aisle to elected officials, and on the rare occasion to the grassroots when we all have the same end goal in mind. Grover is not our friend and does not want us to succeed at anything. This isn’t Net Neutrality. Grover and his people want Obama to fail and they want health care reform to fail. Forever.

  129. 129
    Seebach says:

    @Midnight Marauder: Right now, 3 things can be done to reform the parties.

    1) stop the filibuster

    2) eliminate the electoral college

    3) change state laws on apportionment of representatives; it isn’t necessary that it be winner-take-all. Proportional representation is allowable if the state sets it up that way.

    Also important is media reform. Please let me know which ones Jane is working for. Plz.

  130. 130
    Max says:

    @General Winfield Stuck: I can’t wait for one of the commenters over there to call Obama an “inadequate black male”

  131. 131

    @General Winfield Stuck:

    I thought that was fuckhead, but he quit us, I think.

    I can’t quite you.

  132. 132
    eemom says:

    eew. just eew.

    I love this fine blog, and I like a good fight, but honestly — the idea that there is anything even remotely defensible about what this woman is doing is just too much for me.

    Happy Christmas to all, and to all a good night.

  133. 133
    Seebach says:

    @rs: Aw, don’t be mad just because everything Hamsher has done has only served to entrench Lieberman. It’s not our fault.

  134. 134
    General Winfield Stuck says:

    @rs:

    Idiot

  135. 135
    gocart mozart says:

    @rs:

    You want to believe in a fantasy, believe in one that has working class culture wars trumping the class war and meaningful change resulting.

    I would rather believe in the fantasy that working class self interest trumps culture war bullshit but experience has taught me that that is what it is, a fantasy. I encourage you to try, not in the counter-productive Hamsher way but go ahead, try to talk sense to some teabaggers. If you are successful, you are a better man than me. [Or woman if that is the case]

  136. 136
    General Winfield Stuck says:

    @The Grand Panjandrum:

    If you meant ‘quiet” then nope.

  137. 137
    The Republic of Stupidity says:

    Will anyone notice?

    Be vewy, vewy quiet: I’m hunting wabbits! Why, you wascally wabbit! …

  138. 138
    valdivia says:

    an earnest question–given the vapidity and scandal focus of our Village, how likely do you think Hamsher’s little gambit costs the Dems and Obama a lot in terms of pressure by Reps and the media (and Jane) to make this into a whitewater?

  139. 139

    @General Winfield Stuck: I meant ‘quit’. I can’t quit you.

    i haz no spelng.

    So much for my attempt at humor.

  140. 140
    gocart mozart says:

    Clarification: Working class self interest can trump culture war bullshit among some people and I think more can see the light with effort but I don’t think that the “Obama is the Kenyan Hitler” crowd is among them.

  141. 141
    Seebach says:

    @valdivia: Me! That’ll really show that scum Lieberman.

  142. 142
    Xboxershorts says:

    @Seebach:

    I live in bible belt potter county PA, population 16 thousand, of which approximately 15 thousand are dedicated teabaggers.

    Your comment says you know nothing about me. Please, do NOT make these personal attacks. because then you sound like…”them”.

    Where do you, seebach, suggest the progressive movement find these recruits from? Please, add to the discussion rather than practice attacking the messenger.

  143. 143
    Mnemosyne says:

    @gizmo:

    Since y’all are so pure and principled, please outline for us just how you plan to get anything done if you’re unwilling to join the occasional alliance with others who you find politically unsavory.

    Sure, as soon as you explain to me the brilliant political thinking behind joining up with Grover fucking Norquist on a smear campaign against Rahm Emmanuel on charges that have already been investigated three separate times by the Bush administration and found to be baseless.

    Unless her brilliant plan is “Presidential Impeachment II: Electric Boogaloo,” I’m not really getting the strategy here.

  144. 144
    demimondian says:

    @gizmo: Um, gizmo? How do you respond to the fact that Hamsher’s *libelous* allegations against Emmanuel have already been investigated three times and found meritless? She didn’t destroy anyone; she lied.

  145. 145
    Seebach says:

    @Xboxershorts: Maybe from the people who don’t vote, rather than the people who sit up at night, worrying that somewhere in America a n—– is getting welfare money he doesn’t deserve. Because that’s why my in laws are going to the actual protests.

  146. 146
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @Xboxershorts:

    Where do you, seebach, suggest the progressive movement find these recruits from? Please, add to the discussion rather than practice attacking the messenger.

    There are, literally, millions upon millions of other people in this country that you could turn to before teabaggers. Literally, millions.

    In other news, apparently President Obamarahm is planning on privatizing the USPS at some point in the near future. From the Seminal (of Terrible):

    As Obama props up Fannie Mac with unlimited funding, he is planting the seeds for the privatization of the US Postal Service.
    __
    The US Post Office (losing money) can borrow a limited amount of Federal money. It has borrowed the limit.
    __
    UPS might want the biz. But there are those pesky rural customers. (Hey Redstaters – you want any mail delivery?)
    __
    This news story was reported on NPR this morning.

    So is this an example of some of Jane’s sparkling new recruits, Xboxershorts? Or is this person just a fucking moron?

  147. 147
    Xboxershorts says:

    @demimondian:

    I’ve read Jane’s rebuttal to the criticisms, and she’s fairly well documented her position. And well, the docs show the investigations that were undertaken were all shut down prematurely.

    Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

  148. 148
    General Winfield Stuck says:

    @valdivia:

    For myself, I don’t see what Hamsher is doing personally as doing much harm at all. The problem is deeper in the netroots activist mentality. It is new, and I suspect that is a big reason for not really knowing how to activate for a cause withing the system they hope to influence. As I commented the other day, the wrong way is to start out demands with ultimatums of do what we want or we are going all batshit on you and kick you out of government and forget who we are and join up with the wingnuts.

    They are completely out of control and bouncing off the walls with threats, and that will get them no where. Government leaders of your own party largely want to help do the basic things in the dem platform, but are constrained by political reality. And will dismiss out of hand hysterical demands accompanied by instant lack of support, or even being targeted for removal next election.

  149. 149
    UncleHuntski says:

    @Seebach:

    4) Campaign Finance Reform

    I know, I know, about as likely as eliminating the Electoral College or getting SCOTUS to overturn the ‘corporate personhood’ rule, but…

  150. 150
    gocart mozart says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    I think Obama should be investigated for his role in not prosecuting war crimes by the Bush Administration. Also, not firing enough Republican U.S. Attorneys, also.

  151. 151
    General Winfield Stuck says:

    @The Grand Panjandrum:

    LOL. I don’t spill so good either.:)

  152. 152
    Xboxershorts says:

    @Midnight Marauder:

    Not teabaggers, per say, but the one’s Reagan rode to power….the DixieCrats. My original post even says so.

  153. 153

    The tea-baggers are going to call a general strike? That is good news. We haven’t had a general strike since 1919 http://depts.washington.edu/labhist/strike/ in the socialist republic of Seattle.

    Since the tea-baggers are anti-union, who are they going to get to support their general strike?

  154. 154
    Xboxershorts says:

    @UncleHuntski:

    I feel the same way, this and media consolidation have done a lot of damage to our Republic.

  155. 155
    Seebach says:

    @Xboxershorts: So, not the Teabaggers. Not the people Jane Hamsher wants to team up with. So… you’re disagreeing with Hamsher. Just like we do. So… there’s no fight. We agree. Awesome. Welcome to our side.

  156. 156
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @Xboxershorts:

    Not teabaggers, per say, but the one’s Reagan rode to power….the DixieCrats. My original post even says so.

    So the DixieCrats are where the future is at now?! And for the record, this is what your original post actually says:

    Well, not really the teabaggers, per say. But those who made up Reagan’s southern strategy. the DixieCrats. Many of whom are teabagggers, but not all.

    So how do we go about dividing the teabaggers from the DixieCrats in this oh-so worthwhile endeavor?

  157. 157
    valdivia says:

    @General Winfield Stuck:

    yes I totally agree with this. Excellent insight and analysis. One thing I keep noticing is that people who were pretty active and leading voices against Bush have no idea of how not to be active in opposition, they only know activism * against* not activism for and from within.

    It reminds me a bit of the democratization movements in my region of the world, which fought so hard against military dictatorships but when it came to governance, and fighting *for* your own side when in power it took them a good 10 years to figure it out. At least in South America there was awareness that they had to learn a new skill of how to get things done, it seems to me some of these people have NOT noticed that the way you fight for things and against things is very different.

  158. 158
    Mnemosyne says:

    @rs:

    But I think there’s also a seething populist rage at bankers, at Wall Street, at what they sense but probably can’t define as growing wealth inequality and job insecurity, that maybe, just maybe, could be exploited and channeled positively the same way Fox and the Kochs are exploiting their hatred.

    rs, have you read Nixonland yet? Rick Perlstein lays out practically minute-by-minute how Nixon took all of that class resentment you’re talking about and channeled it into the Republican Party.

    Elites have been using race to turn the working class on each other for at least a century. You’re going to have to figure out how to get working class whites to identify more with working class black and Latinos than they do with upper-class whites. I’m not saying it’s impossible, but those guys in Flint weren’t exactly welcoming to the African-American workers who tried to join their union, which is why those African-American workers started their own separate union organizing in Detroit.

    Race and class are tied together in the US. You can’t solve one without solving the other.

  159. 159
    Xboxershorts says:

    @Midnight Marauder:

    I don’t know, but alone, we lack real political power. I’m not so closed minded as to think that we don’t want these people along, at all.

    Where do you suggest the progressive movement finds recruits?

  160. 160
  161. 161
    The Moar You Know says:

    I’ve read Jane’s rebuttal to the criticisms, and she’s fairly well documented her position. And well, the docs show the investigations that were undertaken were all shut down prematurely.

    @Xboxershorts: Attorney General Hamsher’s investigations show that the Bush administration shut down all three of the investigations into Rahm prematurely?

    Thank God that we have an authoritative judicial source, like Jane Hamsher, on the case here, making sure that the rule of law is upheld.

    Jesus, how does someone as stupid as you turn on a computer?

  162. 162
    gocart mozart says:

    @gocart mozart:
    Personally, I would like Obama to be investigated for not kicking Lieberman in the nuts. If Madison had known Lieberman, he would have included it in the impeachable offenses clause of the Constitution. “High crimes, misdemeaners, and not kicking Joe Lieberman in the balls” is what it would have said.

  163. 163
    Xboxershorts says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    Don’t get personal, Skippy…I’m damn happy to be here.

    I do believe the clinton administration had some input on shutting down some of that too.

  164. 164
    gocart mozart says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    I concur 100%.

  165. 165
    Seebach says:

    @Xboxershorts: Reagan Democrats fine. Teabaggers = NO! When I say, “Do you know any teabaggers” I mean, have you literally spoken with the people who have attended the protests. They are insane. Literally insane. Not just people who are fed up with the system or the bailouts. The actual nutjobs who idolize Palin and Glenn Beck.

    @rs: Maybe friendly fire? Now I’m not even sure.

  166. 166
    Bubblegum Tate says:

    @Midnight Marauder:

    Firebagger?

    Somebody alert Dan Savage! (I’m guessing teabagging + Tabasco = firebagging)

    @calipygian:

    Since Jane ain’t screamin’ “No!”, I guess this just means its a hate fuck on Grover’s part.

    Gross, but sadly accurate.

    @Max:

    I can’t wait for one of the commenters over there to call Obama an “inadequate black male”

    Hahahahaha!

  167. 167
    demimondian says:

    @Xboxershorts: Bullshit. The truth is already clear — Emmanuel has been exonerated, and this is nothing more than an attempt to create yet another. This is the same tactic that the right wing used to front the Whitewater lies, and you’re happily playing along. “Oh, noes, but we need MORE investigation, because you haven’t found what we -wanted you to find- -told you to find- expected to find.”

    Here’s the tell: you haven’t even mentioned any of the other directors of the era. Do you even know who they were, in fact?

  168. 168
    Mnemosyne says:

    @gocart mozart:

    I think Obama should be investigated for his role in not prosecuting war crimes by the Bush Administration. Also, not firing enough Republican U.S. Attorneys, also.

    Oh, man, thanks for the laugh. Because impeaching Obama for Bush’s war crimes will totally solve global warming, the financial meltdown, our aging infrastructure, and the healthcare crisis. Why didn’t I see that before?

    ETA: Oh, wait, I didn’t realize you were being sarcastic. My bad. I’m still waiting for G to get home so we can have our Christmas Eve pizza and wine.

  169. 169
    Xboxershorts says:

    @Seebach:

    I know them Seebach, I work with them, have them as neighbors and am forced to interact with them all the time.

    And yeah, it seems impossible, but it really isn’t.

  170. 170
    General Winfield Stuck says:

    deleted for misread. was snark by gocart.

  171. 171
    gocart mozart says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    Please adjust your snarkometer.

  172. 172
    demimondian says:

    @dan robinson: I’m thinking that they’ll find the IWW a good place to start — independent, audacious, not beholden to the bosses.

    *And* they’ve got great songs. I’m looking forward to a tea borgy full of people singing “I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night”.

  173. 173
    Lisa K. says:

    “Jane takes the position that in some instances it is sensible and effective to join forces with those whose values you don’t generally share.”

    So did Neville Chamberlain. Look where that got him. Same place it will get Jane and all her minions, when all is said and done-screwed right in the ass. And she will deserve it.

  174. 174
    The Raven says:

    Teabagger collective action? More of this and they will be leading us to the Revolution.

    Clearly, god is greatest satirist.

  175. 175
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @Xboxershorts:

    I don’t know, but alone, we lack real political power. I’m not so closed minded as to think that we don’t want these people along, at all.
    __
    Where do you suggest the progressive movement finds recruits?

    Again, there are, literally, millions upon millions of people in this country you would stand a better chance at trying to (re)engage in the political process and discuss the types of goals and initiatives you would find in a progressive agenda. I think it’s fine and dandy that you are not so closed minded as to think you don’t want those people along, but believe me, they are exactly that closed minded about you and your ilk.

    There are plenty of average citizens in this country who are amenable to the kind of dialogue you are wanting to have, and who would not respond to your genuine inquiries by saying “I DON’T WANT THAT NIGRA IN THE WHITE HOUSE!”

  176. 176
    Seebach says:

    @Xboxershorts: Alright, let’s play debate. You be the sane person, and I’ll be the right winger. Let’s go for the hard sell, instead of trying to make common ground with someone gettable.

    “Can you believe this fucking uppity African coming in here and giving all our tax money away as welfare?”

  177. 177
    Xboxershorts says:

    @Lisa K.:

    So did FDR, we all remember Stalin no?

  178. 178
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Xboxershorts:

    Not teabaggers, per say, but the one’s Reagan rode to power….the DixieCrats. My original post even says so.

    Reagan didn’t ride the Dixiecrats to power. He rode working-class whites in the East and Midwest who’d been whipped up into a frenzy of racial resentment against “welfare queens.” See my above link at #156 to Nixonland.

  179. 179
    Mnemosyne says:

    @gocart mozart:

    Once I get a glass of wine in me, my snarkometer will be a finely calibrated instrument. I just have to wait for the mister to get home from work.

  180. 180
    Lisa K. says:

    @Xboxershorts:

    So did FDR, we all remember Stalin no?

    Yes, and then we spent the next 40 years desperately undoing that little piece of work.

  181. 181
    Xboxershorts says:

    @Seebach:

    I actually had that conversation at my mechanic’s last week.

    Was complaining about jobs and the economy and this elderly gentleman blurts out that it’s all the fault of them liberals in washington.

    it took me about 2 minutes to show him how the small government folks like Norquist have, since Reagan, defunded so many federally mandated programs which has resulted in higher local taxes to maintain the same services. That this was crippling to a lot of states.

    And that all that federal tax money was being spent on overseas military activity. I had him nodding his head at how truly stupid it was to invade Iraq. He wasn’t completely unreasonable. And he was slightly older than me (I’m 50).

    Hell yeah, it ain’t easy, but after years of being told how evil Liberals and Democrats are, if that lie isn;t broken through the use of reasonable discourse, then this movement doesn’t stand a chance.

  182. 182
    Malron says:

    @rs:

    I’m not sure that all, most, or even any of the teabaggers have much of a sense of what their goal is.

    Their goal is to fulfill whatever marching orders Dick Armey gives them when he hands them their checks as they board the buses.

  183. 183
    Seebach says:

    @Xboxershorts: Let me try and restate this yet again. Yes, FDR did work with Stalin. But right now, our options are to work with Churchill or Stalin. We are saying Churchill might be the easier one to convince on our side.

    You, however, are saying Stalin is the better pick. It might be hard, but Stalin is the way to go. Just forget Churchill. Let’s totally get Stalin on board. Stalin and FDR will find common ground much more easily than FDR and Churchill.

    And this is why we think you’re not listening.

  184. 184
  185. 185
    Xboxershorts says:

    @Lisa K.:

    Most of that Red Scare turned out to be a lie, too. Do a little research on Rumsfeld and Cheney.

  186. 186
    UncleHuntski says:

    @Xboxershorts: If only they had listened to Patton.

  187. 187
    Seebach says:

    @Xboxershorts: Yeah. I’ve had that conversation 150 times, too. Go back and talk to him a week later after he’s got his new Glenn Beck marching orders. You didn’t make a dent. He’ll just rationalize it away, and shift the focus on some new atrocity the Mexicans are committing.

  188. 188
  189. 189
    Xboxershorts says:

    @Seebach:

    No, not saying that. I’m saying I understand Hamsher’s move. Not saying I approve, but I do understand it.

    I’m also saying, these DixieCrats are Americans too, and eventually we will need some of them in order to kick the fascists out.

  190. 190
    demimondian says:

    @Lisa K.: Actually, FDR was less taken by Stalin than the right would like you to believe. FDR didn’t trust him — the untrustworthy are ever untrusting, after all — but was playing what looked like a losing hand in Japan. Remember, the Manhattan Project was a wildly risky venture, which, by all rights, should have failed.

    Oh, and the Manhattan Project? The Soviet Union wasn’t a participant in it. If it weren’t for Klaus Fuchs and his cell, in fact, the Russians would probably have mostly remained in the dark about how the things actually worked.

  191. 191
    Lisa K. says:

    @Xboxershorts:

    Most of that Red Scare turned out to be a lie, too. Do a little research on Rumsfeld and Cheney.

    I am not sure I get your point (Rumsfeld and Cheney are liars, yes?), but then, it is Christmas Eve, I have had too much to drink, and I am hitting the sack early in preparation for more merrymaking tomorrow.

    Happy holidays all!

  192. 192
    Seebach says:

    @Xboxershorts: If you are talking Dixiecrats, then you DO NOT MEAN THE TEABAGGERS.

    Dixiecrats X=X Teabaggers.

    Words mean things.

    Hamsher wants Teabaggers.

    You want Dixiecrats.

    This is a big fucking difference.

  193. 193
    Xboxershorts says:

    @Seebach:

    We will need some of them teabaggers too, believe it or not.

  194. 194
    Xboxershorts says:

    Ah, I am just now finishing a 16 hour shift and it’s finally time to go home.

    be well everyone….

  195. 195
    The Republic of Stupidity says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Because impeaching Obama for Bush’s war crimes will totally solve global warming, the financial meltdown, our aging infrastructure, and the healthcare crisis.

    Awwww geez… be careful with t’ings like dat. You don’ wanna give any eavesdroppingreading Republicans ideas, do you?

    I can just see that little light bulb going on over somebody’s head…

  196. 196
    gocart mozart says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    Obama should be investigated for his role in not calling for the resignation of Brownie before Katrina while he was a state senator. Also for not kicking Lieberman in the balls also. ;)

  197. 197
    Tonal Crow says:

    When will the teabaggers quit screaming about Going Galt and actually do it?

  198. 198
    Elie says:

    @General Winfield Stuck:

    But that is this guys M.O.

    I wouldnt bother to comment on anything he writes, frankly.. its just a matter of time before he is screeching and the doesnt really honestly take in anything you say anyway…

    Just my opinion anyway

  199. 199
    demimondian says:

    @Xboxershorts: Ha.

    Most of the modern teabaggers, in fact, would be happier in an authoritarian society, and would actively undermine any efforts to make things better. That’s the reason people told you about how futile your chat with your mechanic was; he’s not a bad person, but he is very unlikely to be convinced persistently by any argument you make. As an ally, he’s worse than useless.

  200. 200
    gocart mozart says:

    @Seebach:
    The difference between Coke and Pepsi?

  201. 201
    General Winfield Stuck says:

    @Elie:

    I generally ignore. But that doesn’t always work, so a few words are needed.

  202. 202
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @Tonal Crow:

    When will the teabaggers quit screaming about Going Galt and actually do it?

    Probably about the same time that the firebaggers quit screaming for Rahmbo’s head.

    Your popcorn. It’s ready.

  203. 203
    rs says:

    @Mnemosyne: No I haven’t read Nixonland. I have read several of Kevin Phillip’s books, one of the guys responsible for formulating the Southern Strategy, I believe.
    Without a doubt, some of the teabag movement is composed of irremediable racists. But I believe the majority are more scared than anything else. It’s also a different world than 1937. Whites and blacks intermingle in work, education, & sports to a greater extent than 75 years ago. White people who have no experience with blacks in their personal lives have still grown use to watching Oprah Winfrey or rooting for Lebron James. I think a lot of the heavy lifting has already been done.

  204. 204
    Seebach says:

    @gocart mozart: I understand it thus: the Teabaggers are a discrete movement of people who never paid attention to politics, budget deficits, taxes, or government oversight until a darkie got into the white house. All of a sudden, we are on a road to soc.

    This is very different from so called Reagan democrats or Dixiecrats, who would ally with us on economic issues of those damn faggots would shut up and those sluts would stop killing babies and those Mexicans would go back to their damn country.

    There is a difference. Many Dixiecrats don’t rise buses for three hours with racist signs to go protest about how Texas needs to secede. They just vote against their own self-interest.

  205. 205
    Seebach says:

    I’m in moderation for being too realistic in my description, so I’ll summarize it thus:

    I understand it thus: the Teabaggers are a discrete movement of people who never paid attention to politics, budget deficits, taxes, or government oversight until a darkie got into the white house. All of a sudden, we are on a road to soc.

    This is very different than Reagan Democrats, though there is a gradient here.

  206. 206
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @rs:

    Without a doubt, some of the teabag movement is composed of irremediable racists. But I believe the majority are more scared than anything else. It’s also a different world than 1937. Whites and blacks intermingle in work, education, & sports to a greater extent than 75 years ago. White people who have no experience with blacks in their personal lives have still grown use to watching Oprah Winfrey or rooting for Lebron James. I think a lot of the heavy lifting has already been done.

    I’m pretty sure this guy would disagree with you on that last point.

  207. 207
    gocart mozart says:

    Southern Teabaggers are Dixiecrats. Northern Teabaggers are Confederate Yankees.
    @gocart mozart: kees.

  208. 208
    CalD says:

    @demimondian: Excellent points.

    Wonder if Ken Starr is available. I’m sure Norquist has his number.

  209. 209
    rs says:

    @Midnight Marauder: I’m pretty sure him and I disagree about a lot of things.

  210. 210
    General Winfield Stuck says:

    White people who have no experience with blacks in their personal lives have still grown use to watching Oprah Winfrey or rooting for Lebron James.

    Yep, when them tea baggers not be tea baggin, they be home catching some Oprah while painting their Obama witch doctor signs.

    I hope this pro tea bag movement from the left dies an ugly death, sooner rather than later. Meanwhile, Where is my drool up?

  211. 211
    Seebach says:

    Man, I’m in moderation because I used the S word. Suck.

  212. 212
    Seebach says:

    I understand it thus: the Teabaggers are a discrete movement of people who never paid attention to politics, budget deficits, taxes, or government oversight until a black man got into the white house. Now we’re on the road to ruin.

    This is very different then just the usual Reagan Democrat.

  213. 213
    rs says:

    @General Winfield Stuck: You’re a lot funnier when it’s unintentional, and you don’t write dialects too well. Is that supposed to be black or southern white?

  214. 214
    General Winfield Stuck says:

    @rs:

    No, it’s written in moran dialect so you could understand.

  215. 215
    Seebach says:

    @rs: BTW, I’m glad you and Hamsher finally figured out this crazy idea that we should make common cause with people on economic grounds. Nobody on the left ever thought of that idea before. Except fucking everybody.

  216. 216
    gocart mozart says:

    @Seebach:
    Fair point Seebach, all three;) I lost a post twice this thread. Don’t know why. I blame WP, John Cole, Jane Hamsher and Joe Lieberman because why the fuck not, in exactly that order.

  217. 217
    Jeff Fecke says:

    The idea that turning to the Dixiecrats is desirable for Democrats is, in a word, bonkers. The Dixecrats are mostly dead now. They ain’t coming back. Those who are alive have bought the GOP line of God, Guns and Gays, for the most part. They aren’t Democrats any more, and they aren’t going to be Democrats again — any more than African Americans are “gettable” for the GOP, since once upon a time, most African Americans who were allowed to vote voted Republican.

    The Southern Strategy shifted the foundation of our political parties, and left us with a Democratic Party that appealed strongly to non-white voters, and a Republican Party that was lily-white. This worked well for the GOP as long as whites had a commanding majority in the U.S. But they don’t anymore, and the majority becomes a minority sometime in the next couple generations.

    Democrats don’t need to increase their share of white folks. We just need to keep it roughly where it is. If trends continue, Democrats will increase their majorities over time, unless the GOP starts calming down on immigration and racial resentment. And they may, eventually. But not until they’ve worked through their current angst.

  218. 218
    rs says:

    @General Winfield Stuck: see, that’s what I mean. It’s spelled moron, dumbfuck. Don’t try too hard- you do irony well, as well.@Seebach: Yeah, they thought about it, and talked about it, and talked some more… kind of like this thread.

  219. 219
    Seebach says:

    @gocart mozart: Sorry for the duplicates. Essentially, take my mother in law. When Bush was in the whitehouse, everything he did was right. Everything. Everything he did was right. Her youtube and email accounts are basically along the lines of ilovebush00 or bushwife.

    Now, as soon as Obama is in power, it’s all deficits and taxes and government control and Michelle Bachman and Glenn Beck. All of a sudden, both parties are just no good and we need to clean out Washington.

    And if Palin is elected, everything will be good. Everything.

  220. 220
    Seebach says:

    @rs: Well, maybe Hamsher will have better luck at fomenting the unity of the working class in America than everyone from Eugene Debs to Ralph Nader. She’s got big shoes to fill. But I’m sure the teabaggers are the key. Man, if only Debs had had the teabaggers to work with, we’d have single payer!

  221. 221
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @rs:

    I’m pretty sure him and I disagree about a lot of things.

    Right. Of course you do. Tell me, is Bernie Sanders on that shitlist of yours, as well?

    @rs:

    see, that’s what I mean. It’s spelled moron, dumbfuck. Don’t try too hard- you do irony well, as well.

    Actually, in this case, “moran” is the correct spelling. It’s a reference to this picture and I don’t think it’s ever been more appropriate than in this case.

    You must be new around here the Internet?

  222. 222
    CalD says:

    In reading though some of the comments on this thread it has gradually dawned on me that there may be people here who have no idea what the word Dixiecrat means or (we can hope) that to use that word to refer to modern, conservative-leaning southern Democrats is both inaccurate and insulting. Southern blue dogs may be a lot of things but they are not segregationists.

  223. 223
    Chad S says:

    @demimondian: FDR wouldn’t even let Stalin see a copy of the B-29 when it was in production/development, the Ruskies had to steal it by letting US flight crews who needed an emergency landing site after bombing Japan land in Eastern USSR, giving them the VIP treatment(and then telling them that their plane couldn’t be fixed so they were destroying them), shipping them home through Iran and reverse engineering the bomber.

  224. 224
    Chad S says:

    @CalD: Zell Miller was the last dixiecrat: a southern conservative politician(usually with extremely conservative views on race) who stayed with the Democratic party out of tradition(and not policy).

  225. 225
    Corner Stone says:

    @Seebach:

    Essentially, take my mother in law.

    No thank you. I’ve had one of those and you could not pay me enough to have another.

  226. 226
    Ruemara says:

    @gizmo:
    I’m gonna pass on this argument. I don’t see the “demolishment” of Lewison in this post and she doesn’t really react to his own evidence of the lack of there there.

    In addition, her fund raising for progressive causes, having checked her out at opensecrets, I’ve decided I’m not too happy with the disbursement of her fund raising, to put it bluntly.

    There is nothing to be gained by teaming up with Norquist, nothing.

    and all of y’all who think you’re just the bestest of über-progressives and we’re all Obots who don’t see how awe inspiring Jane Hamsher is, bite me. Jane being on teevee does no one good but her. Where’s her fucking solution? I’ve been writing letters since May.

    Edit:
    Seriously, Jane teaming up and compromising her self by working with Norquist is somehow great, but compromises that get us started on improved health insurance is just anti-puppy evil? WTF? Do you FDL Adventists truly not see how wacked out that thought process is? I’d rather compromise with, gah, Baucus than that foul bit of work Norquist.

  227. 227
    Ailuridae says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    I’m sure someone else will get to this before me but, yeah, ARRA.

  228. 228
    rs says:

    @Seebach: Why is everyone here so fucking obsessed with Hamsher? This stuff transcends some pissing contest a bunch of you here seem to have with another blogger who most of America could give a fuck about. I don’t remember Hamsher having shit to do with Seattle in 1999, or Miami in 2005, but there were a lot of working class white people who looked a lot like the people at teabag rallies. They’re organizing a bunch of economically disgruntled people for us and you all are worried about Hamsher.

  229. 229
    gocart mozart says:

    @Seebach:
    Eugene Debs was a coffee drinker and I have a reliable source that tells me he would have totally driven a Corvair if he were alive in the ’70’s.

  230. 230
    Seebach says:

    @rs: Because you and she both have the same idea. If you think the WTO protesters and the teabaggers are the same people, you are insane.

    If politics comes up tomorrow, I will totally try and see if the teabaggers are totally into this WTO stuff. I’ll bring back the results.

  231. 231
    The Sheriff Is A Ni- says:

    working class white people

    I’ll let that just stand on its own.

    The hilarious part to me is Jane “Public Option” Hamsher joining up with Grover “Drown In The Bathtub” Norquist and the He-Man Socialist Hater Teabaggers over taking down a Democratic administration. Yeah, that’ll show ’em and get us single-payer!

  232. 232
    gocart mozart says:

    Debbs would have liked the movie “Natural Born Killers” I think so Jane Hamsher has that I suppose.

  233. 233
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @rs:

    Why is everyone here so fucking obsessed with Hamsher? This stuff transcends some pissing contest a bunch of you here seem to have with another blogger who most of America could give a fuck about. I don’t remember Hamsher having shit to do with Seattle in 1999, or Miami in 2005, but there were a lot of working class white people who looked a lot like the people at teabag rallies. They’re organizing a bunch of economically disgruntled people for us and you all are worried about Hamsher.

    Surely, you jest?

  234. 234
    Ailuridae says:

    @rs:

    The tea bag rallies are not disaffected working class people without previous political affiliation. Those people have almost certainly cast their national ballots for Republicans going back 30 years at a 4:1 clip.

  235. 235
    Seebach says:

    LOLs. I am totally going to talk about the Mexican-haters about fair trade coffee. Those damn Mexicans in Guatemala n’ shit where the coffee comes from fucking greedy want’n their farms and not walmart.

    Christ almighty. She told the manager of a Mexican restaurant to go back across the border. How fucking stupid are you.

  236. 236
    rs says:

    @Midnight Marauder: Yeah, I might buy that attempt to cover for your village idiot if it wasn’t for the fact he has done a pretty good job of acting the village idiot.

  237. 237
    kay says:

    @Jeff Fecke:

    Obama has a 70% approval rating among Hispanic voters as of December 1st.
    I see the “kill the bill” folk’s alliance with the tea baggers hitting a big ‘ol wall.
    Look at some pictures of those rallies. Tell me who isn’t there. There’s no black people, sure, that’s a given, but who else?
    “Liberals” missed that? How the hell do you miss that?
    There better be a lot of teabaggers, is all I can say.
    “Liberals” are going to be missing fully 2/3 of their activist base.

  238. 238
    Chad S says:

    @rs: The teabaggers aren’t economically disgruntled. They’re throwing a temper tantrum because a President won office on a platform they suddenly disagree with. Apparently massive federal spending and expanding Federal powers was right as the rain when Bush did it, but Obama boosts lipton sales for some reason.

  239. 239
  240. 240
    wilfred says:

    I can understand that. It is the methodology that is problematic.

    It’s praxis. Would you appreciate the methodology if it was, say, a one year boycott, or an indefinite strike?

    Give it time.

    If the poor losers on the Left and the Right ever realize that they are both getting screwed equally by the likes of Goldman Sachs and Halliburton and General Electric, then maybe we can start to turn things around in this country.

    That’s the dawning of real political consciousness.

  241. 241
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @rs:

    Yeah, I might buy that attempt to cover for your village idiot if it wasn’t for the fact he has done a pretty good job of acting the village idiot.

    Aren’t you just adorable? These guys are certainly getting a kick out of you tonight.

    +5

  242. 242
    The Sheriff Is A Ni- says:

    D’oh, forgot the moderation filter.

    working class white people

    I’ll let that just stand on its own.

    The hilarious part to me is Jane “Public Option” Hamsher joining up with Grover “Drown In The Bathtub” Norquist and the He-Man Soshulist Hater Teabaggers over taking down a Democratic administration. Yeah, that’ll show ‘em and get us single-payer!

  243. 243
    gocart mozart says:

    there were a lot of working class white people who looked a lot like the people at teabag rallies. They’re organizing a bunch of economically disgruntled people for us and you all are worried about Hamsher.

    As I alluded to upthread, your point applies also to the KKK, the John Birch Society, and [Godwin Alert!] Hitler’s Brownshirts. Perhaps Rosa Luxemborg should have done more to recruit them.

  244. 244
    Seebach says:

    @gocart mozart: If Luxembourg wasn’t such a fucking sellout corporate whore she would have TRIED.

  245. 245
    General Winfield Stuck says:

    @rs:

    duh!

  246. 246
    CalD says:

    @Chad S: I really have no idea whether Zell Miller was a Dixiecrat or not but Dixiecrat was a term for southern segregationists who left the Democratic party over its advocacy for civil rights legislation and formed the State’s Rights party — they had been Democrats up to that time for the simple reason that Lincoln was a Republican and they were still mad about the war. They ran Strom Thurmond as their presidential candidate in 1948 and actually carried 4 states. Following the 1948 election the party disbanded and most, like Thurmond, found their way into the Republican party.

  247. 247
    eastriver says:

    I completely agree with the commenter. Jane is out there doing something. While most other bloggers, all of whom shall remain nameless, sit around taking pictures of their fucking dog.

    ‘Nuff said.

  248. 248
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @CalD:

    I think all reasonable people can agree that it was an EPIC FAIL on the part of whoever introduced the term Dixiecrats into this otherwise tepid discussion.

  249. 249
    And Another Thing... says:

    @rs: Mr recollection is that the PUMAs made of that acronym themselves and proudly referred to themselves as PUMAs. Please try to keep up, it makes for better snark.

  250. 250
    Malron says:

    Sooooo, the teabaggers intend to treat Obama’s first SOTU address as a national holiday? You lie!

  251. 251
    Ailuridae says:

    @CalD:

    In fairness to Zell, (words I never thought I would type) describing him as a Dixiecrat is entirely unfair.

    I know what Dan Quayle means when he says it’s best for children to have two parents. You bet it is! And it would be nice for them to have trust funds, too. We can’t all be born rich and handsome and lucky. And that’s why we have a Democratic Party. My family would still be isolated and destitute if we had not had F.D.R.’s Democratic brand of government. I made it because Franklin Delano Roosevelt energized this nation. I made it because Harry Truman fought for working families like mine. I made it because John Kennedy’s rising tide lifted even our tiny boat. I made it because Lyndon Johnson showed America that people who were born poor didn’t have to die poor. And I made it because a man with whom I served in the Georgia Senate, a man named Jimmy Carter, brought honesty and decency and integrity to public service

    Those are the unapologetic words of a man who believes in the role of government in society. He turned loopy about 9/11 (I suspect) and growing more conservative with age.

  252. 252
    Seebach says:

    @eastriver: Yeah, at least she’s out there setting up Obama’s impeachment while Cole is, y’know… not destroying the Democrats. What an asshole he is.

  253. 253
    Chad S says:

    @CalD: Zell was the last Dixiecrat. Half of them switched parties in 1968(Strom got concessions from Nixon and led them out) after Civil Rights got passed by LBJ, just about all of the rest switched(or retired) in 94(which is why the Dems lost Congress in 94).

  254. 254
    kay says:

    @The Sheriff Is A Ni-:

    Why let it stand on it’s own? Let’s talk about it.
    I’m interested in this circa 1936 coalition we’re forming, of white working class and liberals.
    There’s a whole bunch of people missing, people who are central to any liberal coalition since 1968 or thereabouts, but no matter. They’re not part of the “liberal activist base”, or anything.
    Because it’s 1936.

  255. 255
    The Sheriff Is A Ni- says:

    I completely agree with the commenter. Jane is out there doing something. While most other bloggers, all of whom shall remain nameless, sit around taking pictures of their fucking dog.

    Jane is certainly doing something. Completely betraying her own values to attention whore may not be the wisest course of action but its certainly “doing something”.

    And then you have those who troll blogs with a smug sense of moral superiority because this time ‘Nach Hitler, uns’ really really really will work.

    I’ll bet you already have a bag of Cheetos in hand.

  256. 256
    Chad S says:

    @Ailuridae: I’m sorry but that’s a load of crap from Zell. He was fine with LBJ’s Great society programs and Jimmy Carter, but couldn’t stand Clinton, the DLC and the New Democrats from 92 on? Does not compute.

  257. 257
    Malron says:

    @eastriver:

    Jane is out there doing something…

    No one denies this. Fucking up royally and turning the progressive blogosphere against her definitely qualifies as “doing something.”

  258. 258

    As an International Figure of Mystery, I am curious to know, what is this Village Idiot of which you speak?

  259. 259
    gocart mozart says:

    @Midnight Marauder:
    Strom Thurmond who was buddy buddy with Grover Norquist and we come full circle.

  260. 260
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @eastriver:

    I completely agree with the commenter. Jane is out there doing something. While most other bloggers, all of whom shall remain nameless, sit around taking pictures of their fucking dog.
    __
    ‘Nuff said.

    Lord, what fools these mortals firebaggers be!

    And you killed it with this one, by the way:

    While most other bloggers, all of whom shall remain nameless, sit around taking pictures of their fucking dog.

    “I will take Horrendous Attempts At Subtlety for $600, Alex.”

  261. 261
    Corner Stone says:

    @wilfred:

    That’s the dawning of real political consciousness.

    It sounds like you’re saying this is how realignment happens.

  262. 262
  263. 263
    The Sheriff Is A Ni- says:

    @rs: Someone is not aware of all internet traditions.

  264. 264
    Corner Stone says:

    @kay:

    Because it’s 1936.

    You know who else was around in 1936?

  265. 265
    gocart mozart says:

    @Midnight Marauder:
    Tunch is a cat but still a bigger dog than you.

  266. 266
    The Sheriff Is A Ni- says:

    @Corner Stone: Burl Ives?

  267. 267
    Xboxershorts says:

    @Midnight Marauder:

    Where are the minutes of that meeting where it was “allegedly” discussed on methods to report the accounting in ways that effectively misrepresent real earnings?

    Emmanual sat on the board for that meeting.

    Freddie Mac is not a wholly private entity, the assertion that those records are privileged is ludicrous.

    So much for transparency when the WH Chief of Staff hides his public record behind a cloud of secrecy.

    Think long and hard about defending this guy, he came out of the very dirty Chicago school of politics.

  268. 268
    Corner Stone says:

    @The Sheriff Is A Ni-: Well, actually I was looking for “Hitler” but shit…I guess Burl Ives is good enough.

  269. 269
    Ailuridae says:

    @Chad S:

    Err, no. He kept Clinton viable in the South. Again, facts are inconvenient things. I have no idea if his evolution to cultural conservative shitbag was pure political calculus or not but there is no evidence the man was a Dixiecrat.

    He was also an education funding zealot (on the good side) through his entire time as Governor of Georgia.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HOPE_Scholarship

    The point of Dixiecrats was to use smaller government as a dog whistle to remind people to hate minorities. Thats a tough claim to make about someone who urged expanding the role of government in an area that is as hotbed as it gets in relation to government involvement (education).

    It would be awesome if any regular commenter here just admitted they got something wrong when they are presented with evidence of that fact.

  270. 270
    gocart mozart says:

    @eastriver:
    Tunch is a cat but still a bigger dog than you.

  271. 271
    The Sheriff Is A Ni- says:

    @Corner Stone: Have a holly jolly Christmas!

  272. 272
    rs says:

    @The Sheriff Is A Ni-: Gosh, I’ve stumbled into the place where internet traditions are born.
    Cloistered little society you have here.

  273. 273
    Corner Stone says:

    @gocart mozart: I thought that was pointed at MM?
    It was funnier that way, IMO.

  274. 274
    The Sheriff Is A Ni- says:

    Where are the minutes of that meeting where it was “allegedly” discussed on methods to report the accounting in ways that effectively misrepresent real earnings?

    I don’t know. Where are they?

    All I know is that three separate investigations cleared Emmanuel’s name. I know I know blah blah mysteriously cut short blah blah. I’m sure Ken Starr Jr. will get right on it and find something to impeach Obama with the real truth.

  275. 275
    Corner Stone says:

    @Xboxershorts: Midnight Marauder – you’ve gotta admit, he’s got you there.
    Not sure why it’s addressed to you but he’s got you totally nailed on this one. You are fucking one and done!

  276. 276
    gocart mozart says:

    @Ailuridae:

    The point of the Teabaggers is to use smaller government as a dog whistle to remind people to hate minorities.

    What’s in a name?

  277. 277
    The Sheriff Is A Ni- says:

    @rs: If you don’t know the moran tradition, it ain’t me who’s cloistered. Have you considered consulting the Great Gizoogle?

  278. 278
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @Corner Stone:

    You know who else was around in 1936?

    I swear, the birth of these firebaggers is maybe the best thing that happened all year. And I mean that in all sincerity. Think about how grueling and exhausting this HCR fight was. And we’re all so, so close to the finish line and we’ve just been hashing it out against any and all comers. It’s the holidays and you just want a fucking break from all the battling and struggling (even the GOPers wanted a fucking break from being Obstructionist Assholes)…

    And LO!, what should come along but a band of some of the most moranic (and easily mockable) human beings that respectable society has ever seen. They even gave themselves a catchy name (Firebaggers…UNITE!), a one-stop shop for your daily “These jokes write themselves” fix, and they have a leader who is blindly going where no person who wanted to remain relevant in the world of politics has gone before. To borrow a page from the great Benjamin Franklin:

    Beer Firebaggers are proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

    Just a little something to thing about as you take another sip from your eggnog.

  279. 279
    Ailuridae says:

    @rs:

    No dumbass,

    http://politicalhumor.about.co.....-moran.htm

    Its an internet tradition and its half a decade old.

  280. 280
    Corner Stone says:

    @The Sheriff Is A Ni-: I would’ve also accepted “Rumsfeld”, Donald Rumsfeld.
    Thanks for stopping by.

  281. 281
    Xboxershorts says:

    @The Sheriff Is A Ni-:

    No, the FOIA was denied because they claimed the subject matter was of a private entity.

    Not cut short. Stopped before it could even begin.

  282. 282
    kay says:

    @Corner Stone:

    How do you call yourself the “liberal base” and completely disregard 2/3’s of the actual liberal base?
    I am truly flabbergasted by that.
    “Carry on! Wait. Where’d everybody go? “

  283. 283
    Ailuridae says:

    @gocart mozart:

    A lot. And it fucking matters. Dixiecrat means something. As do terms like Blue Dog.

    I think Zell Miller was a dirtbag. But if you think he was a Dixiecrat then you are suggesting that Bill Clinton got into bed with an known, unapologetic bigot to get elected President in 1992. That’s what Dixiecrats were – fucking bigots. And that’s not who Zell Miller was.

  284. 284
    gocart mozart says:

    @Xboxershorts:

    he came out of the very dirty Chicago school of politics.

    Eleventh dimensional chess?

    http://www.chicagochessleague.org/

  285. 285
    Seebach says:

    @Xboxershorts: Does it bother you in the least that you are using Republican framing?

  286. 286
    The Sheriff Is A Ni- says:

    he came out of the very dirty Chicago school of politics.

    ACORN!

  287. 287
    Xboxershorts says:

    @gocart mozart:

    Is it false? Do you ever read Driftglass?

  288. 288
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @The Sheriff Is A Ni-:

    Burl Ives?

    This was amazing.

    “Think long and hard about defending this guy, he came out of the very dirty Chicago school of politics.” — Rep. Jim Boehner (R-Ohio) Xboxershorts

    Go on…

  289. 289
    Chad S says:

    @Ailuridae: Let me take this point by point:
    1-Keeping a politician viable is different than supporting their policies. Zell stopped supporting Democratic policies long before his tomfoolery in 2004(he did caucus with the Dems to be fair). He was a conservative Senator who consistent scored in the 70-96 range of the ACU rating(my link for 2003’s ratings which isn’t from Wiki: http://www.conservative.org/pressroom/040706.asp and for 2004, his final year in the Senate it was 96%: http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=16521). Its frankly absurd for him to claim that he supported Carter/LBJ’s policies, which were more liberal than the Dem policies from 1992-2004, but criticize(and vote against) the post 1992 dem policies.
    2-Education funding is a bi-partisan issue, so this is irrelevant.
    3-No, the point of the dixiecrats was the keep the status quo in the South across the board. Race was merely part of it. Strom Thurmond(and others) stayed out of anyone’s way as long as Southern(LBJ, Carter, Bubba) and GOP Presidents(Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Papa Bush) didn’t try to interfere with the South’s “state-based” policies and kept the pork coming.

    You haven’t really submitted any facts that contradict what I’ve said. You want to hold up Education funding as proof of liberalism, but Dubya boosted D-Edu funding by nearly 25% with No Child Left Behind, so he must be a liberal also?

  290. 290
  291. 291
    Corner Stone says:

    @kay: I think you’re asking the wrong person.
    I’m a white guy in TX who’s been taking private Spanish lessons for over two years because it’s good for personal and business reasons.
    This was the only thing Karl Rove actually got right if you ask me. But by the time he and Bush tried to implement they almost got impeached. IMO, that was the true birth of the “teabag” movement.

  292. 292
    kay says:

    @Xboxershorts:

    I think I can save you some time.
    Once someone launches a public accusation/allegation they never, ever, in the history of the world, back down.
    That’s why rational people don’t do it, without rock-solid information.
    Because it’s impossible to back down without completely discrediting yourself.
    Any investigation will be 1. incomplete, 2. compromised by corruption.
    Once you try and convict someone with a smear letter, you’re all in.
    You’re now at Stage One of this process. The investigations were “incomplete”.
    I’ll make you a bet. The next allegation is that Holder is compromised.
    That’s how it goes. Always.

  293. 293
    Corner Stone says:

    @kay:

    How do you call yourself the “liberal base” and completely disregard 2/3’s of the actual liberal base?
    I am truly flabbergasted by that.

    But along the same vein – IMO the D’s have played very fucking fast and loose with the female demographic as well. I hope they do better moving forward.

  294. 294
    Chad S says:

    @Ailuridae: And Strom Thurmond was the first Senator to hire a black Chief of Staff, so he’s not a dixiecrat any more? Race is part of the Dixiecrat mantra, but its not the only part of it. The Dixiecrats were founded to oppose Truman’s racial policies, but they morphed into “southern preservation/heritage.” Yes, race was a part of it, but it wasn’t the only part of it. A lot of it is the perception of being told what to do by Yankees, regardless of the issue(or whether the South agrees with it or not).

    As for Zell, I don’t have direct proof of him being a total bigot, but his “gorilla glue” comment regarding Obama doesn’t help him. Or apologizing publicly for trying to take the Stars and bars off the GA state flag.

  295. 295
    Mary says:

    John

    I am troubled that you want to let Jane Hamsher off the hook. I realize that she has insinuated herself into the progressive structure in a big way, but how many mistakes are you muckety-mucks going to forgive? She ‘s done a lot of damage and she won’t even admit to making any mistakes!

    Have you seen this interview she apparently did with Ben Smith that appeared on 12/2 where she foreshadowed this current teabagger craziness? Have you noted the part where she is in a legal dispute with Howie Klein over ActBlue??? http://www.politico.com/news/s.....30131.html

    I’m a lawyer. This woman gets into way too much trouble and has too much conflict going way back. These are red flags that must not be ignored.

    Playing with Grover Norquist to take the Administration down? Are you f*cking kidding me?

    I have serious questions as to whether she has taken money to participate in this nonsense.

  296. 296
    Midnight Marauder says:

    “Think long and hard about defending this guy, he came out of the very dirty Chicago school of politics.”— Rep. Jim Boehner (R-Ohio) Xboxershorts

    Go on…

  297. 297
    Ailuridae says:

    @Chad S:

    This is fucking idiotic. Nobody is suggesting Zell didn’t turn more conservative as a result of a number of factors. That doesn’t make him a fucking Dixiecrat. That word has a specific fucking meaning and it didn’t apply to Zell Miller.

    Oh, and Education Funding isn’t a fucking bi-partisan issue. A huge portion of the Republican Party thinks the DoE is fucking unconstitutional.

    This is mind-numbing. Becoming a more conservative Democrat doesn’t make you a Dixiecrat. That word, ‘Dixiecrat’ has a historical meaning that I suggest you look into. Most importantly Dixiecrats opposed the New Deal and Great Society while Zell was an unapologetic defender of both. So, yeah you have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.

  298. 298
    kay says:

    @Corner Stone:

    I agree. The problem with economic populism post-1968 is it always ends the same way.
    John called it a “tiger” in a post and he’s dead on. It’ll end ugly, and it won’t be “corporations” that get hurt.

  299. 299
    And Another Thing... says:

    @rs: Man, where have you been for the last year…you are Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayy behind. Stuck is referring to this

    or google “get a brain moran”

  300. 300
    gocart mozart says:

    There are close to 100,000,000 potential voters who don’t vote because they think “All politicians suck”, “It doesn’t matter who you vote for”, or think it won’t effect their lives. Maybe they are a better recruitment pool then people who are mad that there’s a Democratic Nigger in the Whitehouse and blacks, immigrants and fags might enjoy the same benefits they need.

  301. 301
    Midnight Marauder says:

    For the record, I motion that FDL be moved to the “Blogs We Monitor And Mock As Needed” section of the blogroll. I think that’s more than appropriate give the hoocoodanode taking place over there on an hourly basis these days.

  302. 302
    Corner Stone says:

    @gocart mozart:

    that blacks, immigrants and fags might enjoy the same benefits they need.

    Blacks and furriners I’m ok with. But fags – they need to just keep it down for a while longer. When the time’s right I think the administration will be ready to hear their case.

  303. 303
    kay says:

    @Corner Stone:

    I don’t agree with that. I think Democrats are vastly superior on “women’s issues” although I hate the idea of “women’s issues”, generally, because it’s too narrow, and I am a woman.
    I am of the opinion that my issues are YOUR issues, whether you like it or not :)
    Do you mean abortion? Is that where they’re falling down?

  304. 304
    Chad S says:

    @Ailuridae: The problem is that you want to think that the Dixiecrat movement ended when Strom bolted in 1968 because of Civil Rights. It didn’t. The Dixiecrats were still a part of the political landscape until 1994(and Zell never switched because he promised his father he never would). And just being a conservative Dem doesn’t make a politician a Dixiecrat(I never said that), being a southern conservative Democrat with pro-Southern views who stayed out of the GOP because of tradition makes one a Dixiecrat(a post-68 dixiecrat). Zell certainly qualifies as that.

    And you’re the one who wanted to bring up Zell’s funding of education as proof that he’s not a dixiecrat(nevermind that this has nothing to do with the point since I could find dozens of examples of conservative politicians who boosted education funding), so don’t lash out at me with irrelevant points, thanks.

  305. 305
    Xboxershorts says:

    @The Sheriff Is A Ni-:

    He’s not speaking out in support of Rham. Mmmkay?

    He’s chastising the unholy alliance with Grover. Which is fair game.

  306. 306
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @Xboxershorts:

    He’s not speaking out in support of Rham. Mmmkay?
    __
    He’s chastising the unholy alliance with Grover. Which is fair game.

    /head explosion

  307. 307
    Ailuridae says:

    @Chad S:

    Seetfuckingjeebus.

    Dixiecrat has a fucking meaning. It means having an opposition to the Great Society and New Deal social welfare/insurance programs as a dog whistle for helping minorities. Zell, until he lost his mind and went off the reservation starting in 1994 was an unapologetic fan of both the New Deal and Great Society. Ergo, he can’t fucking be a Dixiecrat.

    Look up Shelby, Richard. This is mind-numbing.

    Yes, Zell became nuttily conservative as he aged. No that doesn’t mean he was ever a Dixiecrat. Words mean things regardless of what you think.

  308. 308
    Xboxershorts says:

    @Midnight Marauder:

    Cool, bring a mop

    What part of that statement fried your logic circuits?

  309. 309
    Corner Stone says:

    @kay: It’s too late for me to be accurate but in a very ill-defined way let me say this:
    I don’t believe in “women’s issues” either. I believe in equal rights under the law. End of statement.
    I’ve been mocked here before for this sentiment, supposedly by D’s and it troubles the hell out of me. And when any signifcant bill comes to fruition and it carries the “appearance” that one genders’ rights were negotiable to get final passage – I’m not good with that.
    Abortion is a herring to me at this point, at least the shibboleth that is Roe v Wade et al.
    A women’s issues ARE my issues, and all and everything that encompasses. But not because they relate specifically to the female but because it’s more of the “King’s Preference” category. This week me and my team sit nearest the King and have special treatment. Next week my enemies sit closer and I suffer for it.
    A bad analogy but to further my late night point – if rights can be denied to one they can be denied to all.
    Equal rights under the law, no one above the law.

  310. 310
    amk says:

    @gizmo’s rant on teh purity – ha, ha, ha. Take time out to pull your face from jane’s ass and look at the mirror.

    @cole – why the chickening out ?

  311. 311
    Ailuridae says:

    @Midnight Marauder:

    I don’t speak for anyone but it takes a long time before something deserves that. FDL has had its problems but has basically been off the rails crazy for one week. Keeping to site standards it can’t make the “Mock” list for three years. That’s the time the BJers took to realize that Matt Welch made no fucking sense.

  312. 312
    Corner Stone says:

    @kay:

    I don’t agree with that. I think Democrats are vastly superior on “women’s issues”

    And for what very little it is worth I will agree with this. But that isn’t saying much when their rights are negotiable to satisfy one prudes conscience.

  313. 313
    Mary says:

    Oh, and as far as Jane Hamsher being nice to you, get a grip.
    Grover Norquist is brilliant and funny and throws great parties. He’s a real bon vivante.

  314. 314
    Xboxershorts says:

    @amk:

    Chickening out of what? Criticizing Jane for her unholy alliance?

    No, please do. It’s hard to justify.

    But going after Rham? He’s the single greatest impediment to the progressive agenda in the WH today. He sets the agenda.

    And he hides his public record behind dubious claims of privacy.

    Rham is (and rightly so) fair game. As fair a game as KKKarl.

  315. 315
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @Xboxershorts:

    Cool, bring a mop
    What part of that statement fried your logic circuits?

    It’s the fact that they’re attacking the fundamental reason why Dear Jane teamed up with Grover Fucking Norquist in the first place–which is to launch an witch hunt investigation into the nefarious dealings of the all-mighty Rahmbo. It doesn’t matter if he doesn’t come out and explicitly say “Rahm Emmanuel is as innocent and pure as the driven snow.” He’s saying that the entire enterprise Jane is currently engaging in is a wholly and ultimately destructive endeavor.

    And while nothing can be done about moral imbeciles like Grover Norquist running wild in the streets, somebody really needs to remind Hamsher that this sort of collaborating-with-thugs-for-political-convenience bullshit is exactly how the Southern Strategy started.

    But go ahead, keep defending her using Republican talking points. Single payer what now?

  316. 316
    Arlene Machiavelli says:

    —spits—

  317. 317
    cleek says:

    Let’s not forget that she is actually out there doing real stuff.

    no, let’s no forget that she’s out there trying to guarantee that Grover Fucking Norquist and his asshole allies get even more support for their agenda. she’s turned herself and the entire loudmouth activist left into utter poison.

    if the Hamsters are all into the kind of party discipline that they see on the GOP side, they should consider that, if the sides were reversed, what they’re doing now is exactly the kind of thing that would get them excommunicated from the GOP fold. would RedState team up with Code Pink on anything ?

    you don’t get to complain about party discipline and the impurity of your own team WHILE TEAMING UP WITH THE MOTHERFUCKING ENEMY.

    she’s a fucking spoiled brat idiot. do us all a favor, and never mention her again.

  318. 318
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @Ailuridae:

    I don’t speak for anyone but it takes a long time before something deserves that. FDL has had its problems but has basically been off the rails crazy for one week. Keeping to site standards it can’t make the “Mock” list for three years. That’s the time the BJers took to realize that Matt Welch made no fucking sense.

    Well, I guess it’s gonna be a long, strange trip. But someone has to get the bandwagon started, amirite?

  319. 319
    And Another Thing... says:

    @rs: Man you have a learning disability. “all internet traditions” is a sadlyno term. It’s a hoot for you to call the commenters here “cloistered” cause you are the one who’s clueless. That you didn’t get the “moran” reference or the PUMA reference suggests that you’re pretty lost. I hope you dropped a trail of bread crumbs so you can find your way home where they maybe appreciate your “wit.”

  320. 320
    Xboxershorts says:

    @cleek:

    Let us never forget that that the progressive block has readily criticized the GoP for the rigid enforcement to party policy that they enforce.

    You are advocating the same thing, believe it or not.

  321. 321
    Ailuridae says:

    @Midnight Marauder:

    You missed my point/jopke: Reason Magazine still hasn’t hit the mockable list. Old habits die hard.

  322. 322
    Xboxershorts says:

    @Ailuridae:

    Actually, they have.

    Greenwald explains

  323. 323
    And Another Thing... says:

    @rs: The proprietor of this blog, John, has thoughtfully provided a lexicon found on the upper right corner at the top page. I suggest that you use it and stop embarrassing yourself. Everybody misses a reference every now and then…you’ve got three strikes.

  324. 324
    John says:

    I hate to Godwin things, but the only major one-day boycott that I am aware of was a one day boycott of Jewish businesses that the Nazis tried to organize shortly after taking power. It was a disastrous failure.

  325. 325
    Xboxershorts says:

    @Midnight Marauder:

    It’s Been a long strange trip with lots of really great shows and lots of dubious transactions and more than my fair share of brushes with the crime-control establishment.

    Still, I smile and hope.

    Wishing you ALL a very merry Christmas, and the bestivus of Festivus, grab a pole and chastise your loved ones and then wrestle in the living room!

  326. 326
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @Ailuridae:

    You missed my point/jopke: Reason Magazine still hasn’t hit the mockable list. Old habits die hard.

    Yep. Now it makes sense. I guess all these firebagger madness has got me all out of whack. Well, that and the numerous Js, I suppose…

    @Xboxershorts:

    Actually, they have.
    __
    Greenwald explains

    Are you even fucking reading anymore before you post? I mean, wow. The point just keeps traveling by you at light speed. Egads, man!

  327. 327
    Mary says:

    @Xboxershorts: Greenwald is now acting as Hamsher’s lawyer so we can ignore him too. And let’s not forget that he’s the co-founder of her PAC and they’re paying him too.

  328. 328
    Corner Stone says:

    @Ailuridae:

    Reason Magazine still hasn’t hit the mockable list. Old habits die hard.

    Hell. Between Reason and Sully that’s got to be at least 40% of DougJ/Cole’s material for threads.

  329. 329
    Ailuridae says:

    @Xboxershorts:

    No, BJ’s mockable list. Glenn just got his libertard stuff together to finally take them down. Matt Welch is a third grade thinker and a lot of us have noted that for years here.

    But Cole loves some of that vein of thought so is hesitant to put them on the Goldberg/NR axis.

  330. 330
    kay says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Great point, clearly stated, and somewhat original, which is unusual with abortion.
    I try to stay calm and methodical and specific on abortion, and partly that’s because I have thought it through, as a legal issue. Endlessly.
    I’m a lawyer, and I wrestled long and hard with Roe in terms of the reasoning, and ended up at the same place as the Roe court.
    I thought about it for years, not constantly, but with some specificity and rigor. It’s genuinely a sort of conundrum, unique, and it never goes away, as controversy.
    I couldn’t square the rights circle, so ended up back at Roe, which should not surprise me, but actually did.
    I was operating under this delusion that people just hadn’t tried hard enough to solve it.
    But, I lose the bigger picture and what you describe is the bigger picture.

  331. 331
    gocart mozart says:

    Can we all agree to use the term “Neo-Dixiecrat” to describe Zell and the Teabaggers? This would solve a lot needless anger or if you prefer, “Fucking Assholes” should be the moniker given that it’s more inclusive.

  332. 332
    Xboxershorts says:

    @Midnight Marauder:

    It’s possible things bypass my logic centers….sure.

    be kind now, I’m approaching senior citizen status far too quickly for my comfort level. You try being a rational and responsible adult at 50 after 200 or 300 dead shows….

    Sometimes a piece of conversation grabs you, and you jump in…and find out after the fact that your snark detector was off-line

  333. 333
    Studly Pantload says:

    Great thread, but I’m still stuck on the Firebaggers. Whether there’s Tobasco involved or itching powder, kerosene and a lighter, what-have-you, I think that richly deserves enshrinement on the Lexicon Wall of Fame!

  334. 334
    cleek says:

    You are advocating the same thing, believe it or not.

    no, i’m not advocating. i’m assuming that they want that kind of party discipline, because that’s the only way Obama or Reid can “twist arms” to bring on the leftiest of lefty bills. they are clamoring for more discipline (while doing exactly the opposite of what the discipline entails).

    if they don’t want party discipline, then they must want more sausage-factory legislation; the kind we just saw with HCR. a bunch of people with varying interests get together and try to hammer out something that displeases everybody as little as possible.

    they need to pick one or the other: a big tent, where ponies are designed by committee, or a GOP-style rigid structure, where people who cross party lines are committing date rape.

    personally, i’m fine with the Democratic party being a loose coalition. i do wish it was a little bigger so everything wasn’t controlled by the “centrist” margin. but that’s a different issue. one the Hamsters apparently don’t seem to understand.

    they want it all, and they want it now. and they’re willing to team up with the people who HATE them and what they want, in order to hurt those who try to give them 80% of what they want.

    they are petulant, spoiled, idiot brats.

  335. 335
    Ailuridae says:

    @Corner Stone:

    If they are mocking them (as they often are) then linking them is fine.

    I haven’t been around long but it makes sense for Cole to approach things as he differentiates himself from standard libertarian arguments (and thats Reason and Sully)

    1. This is a pretty well argued piece for drug decriminaliztion so you should read it.

    2. Reason really misunderstands the problems with an unfettered free market. Read Kevin Drum’s piece on criticizing this piece by Reason Magazine.

    Don’t know. Makes sense to me.

  336. 336
    Xboxershorts says:

    @cleek:

    What we have…..is what we got right now.

    I know it sucks.

    Meh…..

  337. 337
    gocart mozart says:

    @And Another Thing…:
    Actually, “I am aware of all internet traditions.” originated on the blog “Lawyers Guns and Money.” If you were aware of all internet traditions, you would surely know that wouldn’t you?

  338. 338
    Chad S says:

    @Ailuridae: Its mindnumbing because you don’t know what you’re talking about.

    Zell didn’t suddenly go off the reservation in 1994, he really didn’t change his views at all, his comments on LBJ–nevermind that plenty of dixiecrats voted for some of LBJ’s great society policies even after Strom left–Carter, FDR, JFK etc are him trying to make a claim that the Dems went hard to the left after Carter(which is totally absurd on the face of it) and thats why he didn’t vote with them on major issues. Zell is and was a Dixiecrat. He was Lester Maddox’s chief of staff, and Maddox was the Segregationist governor of Georgia one step above a Klan member racially speaking(Maddox was the governor of Georgia in 1968 who kept MLK jr’s body from lying in state in the Georgia State House). So, don’t try to claim that Zell was a good liberal until 1994 until he found Supply Side Jesus.

  339. 339
    Midnight Marauder says:

    Because I know you’re wondering, from the Seminal (of Terrible):

    Obama is not a progressive, he’s not a centrist.. nor a conservative.. he’s a puppet for the CFR, trilateral commission and the bilderberg group. They run him and he lies to us.

    Apparently you have no problem with Obama continuing or escalating those same destructive Bush policies? Driving the country off a cliff is okay as long as our guy is at the wheel.

    Quote: “the swarms of reflexive Obamapologists attacking FDL for working with conservatives like Grover Norquist”
    __
    Is it simply impossible to imagine that someone might be appalled by what Jane Hamsher is doing and not be a “reflexive Obamapologist”? Is that simply beyond the imaginative capabilities of anyone at FDL?
    __
    Because — seriously — you undercut your own credibility by making this seemingly “reflexive” assertion and indeed this attack on those who disagree. In fact, if you look through the commentary, you’ll see that time and time again it’s the supporters of Jane’s foolish move who bring up Obama, not those of us who are appalled.
    __
    I’ve been shocked and disappointed to come to the conclusion that Jane Hamsher is a fake activist and a fake progressive. Is this a condition that afflicts every blogger here, I wonder?

    That seems out of place.

    It is absolutely disingenuous for anyone to imagine that Jane feels any affinity for Grover beyond augmenting a point in order to reach a specific result. Especially Obama groupies, since their idol does this shit on a daily basis like; Obama entertaining Olympia Snowe, which on many counts is a far, far more egregious, and damning, type of behavior.

    Ah yes, that is better.

    I’m just baffled that these koslings keep trying to convince people that Jane is the problem, rather than the little punk in the whitehouse. You people really look like complete, deluded suckers, like birthers or something. Please try to think more clearly, ok? I’m embarassed for you.

    I’m glad Kos and Kompany are out of the closet. That shoot the messenger if the message is right is so republican. He just is all sour graped because obamarahm has screwed himself and the democratic party over health care.It is not over. Hard to write those diaries praising sell outs. So Jane rounds them up for a Kause for their hate.
    __
    And why not call Bernie Sanders and the going going gone democrats. We will fix it later just doesn’t cut it when people are sick and dying.
    __
    At least it shows real democrats can still think.

    Mmm, firebagger. Delicious.

  340. 340
    Ailuridae says:

    @Chad S:

    Are you now arguing guilt by association? This is beyond the fucking pale. Everyone knows that Zell worked for Maddox. But we are talking about the policy that Zell ran under and governed under.

    Again see Shelby, Richard.

  341. 341
    Xboxershorts says:

    @Chad S:

    There is no supply side Jesus, and that’s the BIG undeniable lie. The one that no teabagger or dixiecrat can refute.

    the ONLY thing that’s trickled down since Reagan’s revolution…..is debt load.

    The documents that confirm this are too numerous to link to.

    THAT is the big lie that the dixiecrats/teabaggers will never be able to refute.

  342. 342
    Mary says:

    Has Hamsher denounced Orrin Hatch for using her name on the floor of the Senate or does she now save all denunciations for Democrats and Bernie Sanders?

  343. 343
    gocart mozart says:

    @Chad S:

    Can we all agree to use the term “Neo-Dixiecrat” to describe Zell and the Teabaggers? This would solve a lot of needless anger or if you prefer, “Fucking Assholes” should be the moniker given that it’s more inclusive.

    @gocart mozart:

  344. 344
    Corner Stone says:

    @Midnight Marauder: Nutpicking is never attractive.
    Would you hold Cole responsible for the absolutely stupid fucking ponderings of Stuck? Or the inanities of the most clueless woman anywhere Elie?

  345. 345
    Arlene Machiavelli says:

    We’d be just as well off attacking that poor woman who tweeted after her son died.

  346. 346
    Corner Stone says:

    And Midnight Marauder, BTW – I gotsta say your invocation of Anchorman wayyy up thread is fucking grand. It’s always a beautiful thing to work in a little Ron Burgundy action.

  347. 347
    Xboxershorts says:

    @gocart mozart:

    I am the one that introduced the term DixieCrat into this conversation. I’m sorry I did.

    Truth is, we NEED some of “THEM” regardless of their label, on “our” team, if real political power is to be acquired.

    We really do.

    How we gonna get em, without actually dirtying our fingers, is the $64,000 question.

    Too many comments are focused on who or what….and not enough on the HOW

  348. 348
    Corner Stone says:

    @Ailuridae: They’re always mocking Reason, but 50/50 with Sully from approving to outright rage.
    Anyway, wasn’t saying anything about whether they should, just marking it down that they *do*.

  349. 349
  350. 350
    Xboxershorts says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Sometimes Reason earns a good mocking…oh well.
    Sometimes reason gets it perfectly right.

    Such is life.

  351. 351
    bemused says:

    @Chad S: You need to read this article written by Ed Kilgore (currently blogs at Democratic strategist and worked for Zell Miller in Georgia).

  352. 352
    General Winfield Stuck says:

    deleted due to christmas cheer.

  353. 353
    Xboxershorts says:

    @General Winfield Stuck:

    Why? Aren’t we just getting started?

    Damn, I’m working on kicking in the flashback/residuals with several glasses of cheap red wine, some homegrown and a very nice single malt

  354. 354
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Nutpicking is never attractive.
    Would you hold Cole responsible for the absolutely stupid fucking ponderings of Stuck? Or the inanities of the most clueless woman anywhere Elie?

    I see what you did there.

    And I’m glad you caught the Anchorman reference. That’s one of my favorite little moments from that movie. Never gets old.

    Edit: And how would we have ever gotten the gold that is “firebagger” without a little nutpicking here and there?

  355. 355
    Xboxershorts says:

    Ok, I repeat myself here

    “And the progressive block of the democratic party will never have enough political power, on their own, to make a difference.”

    That’s the reality.

    And how ya gonna get em if you continue to exclude, mock and name call.

    Civility does count.

  356. 356
  357. 357
    gocart mozart says:

    @Corner Stone:

    They’re always mocking Reason, but 50/50 with Sully from approving to outright rage.

    This makes sense because libertarians are 100% wrong 50% of the time.

  358. 358
    Corner Stone says:

    @Midnight Marauder: Sorry but I can’t hear you. I’m listening to some taiko drums at the moment.

    Among my favorite lines is the “Let’s do this!” part right before the brawl.
    Somebody recently said something like Talledega Nights was better than Anchorman and I almost jumped right through the fucking series of tubes to choke that stupid motherfucker right to death. To death I tells ya.

  359. 359
    Corner Stone says:

    @gocart mozart: Are you trying to bite into the Anchorman quotes?

  360. 360
    Xboxershorts says:

    @gocart mozart:

    Heh heh heh heh heh

    Snark…lol, my snark meter works!

  361. 361
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Among my favorite lines is the “Let’s do this!” part right before the brawl.
    __
    Somebody recently said something like Talledega Nights was better than Anchorman and I almost jumped right through the fucking series of tubes to choke that stupid motherfucker right to death. To death I tells ya.

    Oh, man. The brawl scene. So much win in that scene. I still say my favorite moment from that scene is Ben Stiller’s cameo as the Spanish Anchor. He has so many great lines in about two minutes. Among them:

    “Como estan…beetches?!”
    “Tonight’s top story: The sewers run red with Burgundy’s blood. ”
    And my personal favorite: “LA POLICIA!”

    And Talladega Nights is pretty money, but I think I would have to give the slight edge to Anchorman. However, “Don’t you put that kind of evil on me!” is one of my go-to lines.

  362. 362
    Corner Stone says:

    @Midnight Marauder: You forgot, “AYAYAYAYAYAYAAY!!”

  363. 363
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @Corner Stone:

    You forgot, “AYAYAYAYAYAYAAY!!”

    It’s a good thing Christmas is tomorrow, because now you have no excuse for not getting me a new keyboard.

  364. 364
    Corner Stone says:

    @Midnight Marauder:

    Yeah, I stabbed a man in the heart.

    Man, I could go on all night. So damn good.

  365. 365
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Oh Ron Obama, there are literally thousands of other men presidents that I should be with instead, but I am 72 percent sure that I love you.

    Fitting, I think.

  366. 366
    DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal) says:

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    Fer Realz?

    @Midnight Marauder: “So is this an example of some of Jane’s sparkling new recruits, Xboxershorts?”

    Sounds like a condition someone gets from living in Mom’s basement and playing Xbox 24/7.

  367. 367
    Xboxershorts says:

    @DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal):

    The Xbox is actually in the garage.
    I dunno about …”new”….I’m fairly grizzled.
    I’ve been helping to run pieces of the internet since 1986,

    I love you all too…(ok, I’ve had a drink or two)

  368. 368
  369. 369
    Xboxershorts says:

    @gocart mozart:

    Merry Christmas!

    We got to be tolerant

  370. 370
    Corner Stone says:

    @gocart mozart:

    This makes sense because libertarians are 100% wrong 50% of the time.

    Sex Panther:
    “They’ve done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.”

    Seemed appropriate to call it out at the time. Guess it was unrelated.

  371. 371
    Xboxershorts says:

    PS..here’s an exceptional Franklin’s Tower:

    http://www.facebook.com/Flatla.....8836350167

  372. 372
    DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal) says:

    Xboxershorts: “per say”

    It’s “per se”. If ya gonna uze teh beeeg werds ya mite ass wel uze the rite uns’.

    One other tip sport; if you are going to be pissed at someone and call for their head then it might help if you get the name right. It’s Emanuel,  not “Emmanual”.

    I sure would hate to see you lynch the wrong guy, heat of the moment, blind rage and all that stuff ya know. Also. Too.

    @rs: “It’s spelled moron, dumbfuck.”

    You are not aware of all internet traditions.

  373. 373
    Xboxershorts says:

    @DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal):

    errrg, effin grammer nazi’s…..

    ok, I’m busted, cuff me dammit, I might like it

  374. 374
    Corner Stone says:

    @Xboxershorts:

    Civility does count.

    Fuck civility! Fuck it right up its stupid ass!

  375. 375
    Xboxershorts says:

    @Corner Stone:

    I feel your pain…

    Here, a little sympathy:

    http://www.facebook.com/Flatla.....8503690167

  376. 376
    tomvox1 says:

    Hate to say it but I think Hamsher may actually be a Radical Right 5th Columnist/Tokyo Rose.

  377. 377
    Corner Stone says:

    @Xboxershorts: I’m an adult, I don’t have a Facebook login.

  378. 378
    Corner Stone says:

    @tomvox1: But in that case wouldn’t she launch her attack from the Coast….oh, now I’m getting you.

  379. 379
    TBogg says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    I never closed the comments and I never have.

    They still appear to be open.

  380. 380
    Corner Stone says:

    @TBogg: I am so confused.
    Does this mean you are *not* a POW like I’ve been told?

  381. 381
    DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal) says:

    The answer is: Firebagger

    What do you get when you put some shit in a paper bag and light it on fire?

    Close enough.

  382. 382
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @Corner Stone:

    I am so confused.
    Does this mean you are not a POW like I’ve been told?

    Apparently, we are not all TBogg now.

  383. 383
    Corner Stone says:

    @Midnight Marauder: Well, he’s either screaming for freakin help, or he’s got a point to make.
    Or he’s screamin that he has a point to make.
    I just wanna know.

  384. 384
    Corner Stone says:

    And more appropriately, I want a freakin big bag of dunkin donuts donut holes right now.
    Hmmm…Pasadena, or Bellaire….which is the path to true enlightenment?

  385. 385
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Well, he’s either screaming for freakin help, or he’s got a point to make.
    Or he’s screamin that he has a point to make.
    I just wanna know.

    And somewhere in that hot mess rests the truth. By the way, I’m still laughing at your brilliant use of Ludacris’ “Act A Fool.” I have (drunkenly) screamed out that line so many times and I love it every single time. I’M TOO FAST FOR Y’ALL, MANG! Hilarious.

  386. 386
    Corner Stone says:

    And if there’s ever been a more “lives right beside you in the burbs” movie star than Rachel Weisz I’ve never seen one.

  387. 387
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Hmmm…Pasadena, or Bellaire….which is the path to true enlightenment?

    Bellaire. Duh.

  388. 388
    Corner Stone says:

    @Midnight Marauder: And you see? This is where the rookie mistake comes in. Cause Bellaire has a police force that actually gives a shit, where Pasadena does not. Combine that with a hooker availability metric, then run that through the proprietary White Guy in a Bad Spot Theorem, and….Pasadena is the correct answer.

  389. 389
    Corner Stone says:

    @Midnight Marauder: In any event it doesn’t matter. And I’ve lost interest in that too now.
    Oh wells.

  390. 390
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @Corner Stone:

    And you see? This is where the rookie mistake comes in. Cause Bellaire has a police force that actually gives a shit, where Pasadena does not. Combine that with a hooker availability metric, then run that through the proprietary White Guy in a Bad Spot Theorem, and….Pasadena is the correct answer.

    You’re right. I can’t believe I forgot about that element. They’re really bad in West University as well. I remember they would sit with their lights off in people’s driveways, just waiting for some unlucky bastard to be going 31 in a 30 zone. Just a miserable thing from top to bottom, if you ask me.

  391. 391

    @Midnight Marauder:

    a hooker availability metric.

    Wait, I demand to see a formula on this one.

  392. 392
    Huntski says:

    We are such tribes.

    All the best, peops, Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, Survive and Succeed!

  393. 393
    Tattoosydney says:

    Hello peoples. Feliz Natal.

  394. 394

    smudge has a ladybug on the ceiling, so she’s chasing. Can’t sleep with that.

  395. 395
    Tattoosydney says:

    @arguingwithsignposts:

    Just wait till you start fetching them down for her. I have often found myself knocking down cockroaches for Pedro. He plays with them like a cat. I don’t let him chase the lizards though.

  396. 396

    @Tattoosydney:

    I don’t let him chase the lizards though.

    well, if only ms. hamsher had gotten the memo ;) grover f**king norquist!??

  397. 397
    Corner Stone says:

    @Corner Stone:

    which is the path to true enlightenment?

    Cupcakes bitchez. Cupcakes was the correct answer.

  398. 398
  399. 399
    J Price Vincenz says:

    It literally is pouring snow and rain and hail all over the sinners (and their corporatist proxies) who voted against HCR. This is God’s punishment.

  400. 400
    RedKitten says:

    Good day to all my fellow BJuicers, and a Merry Christmas! :)

    I’m just sitting here relishing the momentary peace. SamKitten woke up at 6am for his breakfast, and is now back to sleep for a few hours. I just put a nice big fire on in the furnace, and for shits and giggles, plugged in the Christmas tree lights. So now, I wait for everybody else to get up. :)

  401. 401
    DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal) says:

    Good morning Krista and a Merry Christmas to you, your family and everyone else out there! I hope everyone gets what they want and if not that then what they deserve. ;)

    I was hoping to take the wife for a motorcycle ride but rain is headed our way. Temps are in the low 50’s which is fine to ride in (with the proper gear). Up early working on the Mustang, getting ready to install the rear suspension and differential after a complete overhaul w/new leafs & poly bushings, powdercoating and repainting. Can’t wait to get it done but am having fun teaching our son how to rip stuff up and rebuild it. Last night we had to machine two aluminum support rings and he had a blast running the machinery. Kid is good with math, that’s for sure. :)

    Hobbies will be the death of me but at least I will be smiling and our son can pick up where I leave off…lol

  402. 402
    Mary says:

    Happy Holidays all:

    I have more questions about the Jane Hamsher scandal:

    Glenn Greenwald poses as a full transparency, full disclosure kind of guy when he writes about civil liberties and takes pains to disclose his connections to the ACLU. Why doesn’t he do the same when he is defending Jane Hamsher? Why doesn’t he disclose that he cofounded the AccountabilityNowPAC with her and appears to have financial connections with her?

    Markos Moulitsas and Arianna Huffington have been pounding the same issues as Jane Hamsher for a while now–that the Democrats are hopelessly corrupt and in the pockets of special interests. MIchelle Malkin wrote a book about this very same subject earlier this year and it has also become Poobah Bill Kristol’s pet issue for trying to stop health care reform. Do Markos and Arianna have financial connections to Jane as well?

    Full disclosure: I have always been a Democrat. Yet, back in the 90’s, I was on the periphery of the elfin plotting to take President Clinton down. The glamor, intrigue and funding behind these efforts were a wonder to behold. The elves reaped whatever they wanted, be it fame, riches or being catapulted to the highest levels of the government after the Republicans took over. It makes me sick to think about how weak I was to get caught up in those schemes. Oh. And Grover Norquist was smack dab in the middle of it then, too.

  403. 403

    I can’t find the original source, probably Flickr, but there was a cute counterprotest sign here: “This sign is the brownest thing on this block.”

    http://politicalhumor.about.co.....k.0yzl.htm

  404. 404
    Arlene Machiavelli says:

    Just had to get to 400. Merry Christmas.

  405. 405
    Chad S says:

    @Ailuridae: No, I’m saying that he can’t claim to be some Southern Liberal who suddenly changed in 1994 since he never was a southern liberal. You can’t work for Lester Maddox for years(much less be his COS) and be a social progressive. Zell, now, likes to claim that the Dems changed and left him, but they moved to the center during his supposed time of change not to the far left.

    Dick Shelby was a Dixiecrat who changed parties in 1994, same with Billy Tauzin and about 20-40 others in Congress, but they stopped voting with the progressive Dems years before then. LIke I said several posts ago: Most of the Dixiecrats changed parties in the 60s when Strom bolted, but some still held out as Dixiecrats out of tradition until 1994. Zell was the final one who never switched because he promised his father he never would(which is probably based on racial politics of the south) and liked to claim that the Dems went far left on him in the 1990s(which is ridiculous). I really don’t know why you’re arguing except to just argue now since you clearly have no clue about what you’re talking about.

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    Joel says:

    This anti-Rahm, anti-corporatist, siding with the teabaggers (you know, the ones that hold up signs comparing HCR to Auschwitz) sounds like a classic Jew hunt to me. You knoqmw, because there isn’t a long history of anti-semitism at the extremes of American politics.

  407. 407
    Liberty60 says:

    It is true that the ordinary people who make up both sides of the aisle, are getting screwed by both Corporate America and the government; the classic is the collusion of the government and coporations in the military/ industrial sector, but it spreads in all phases- the marriage of private interests and government power.
    What is interesting, is to see when these wings will unite- I found it fascinating that the SCOTUS decision in the Kelo eminent domain case very briefly had both the RedStaters and Kos folk united in opposition.

    In my optimistic moods, I imagine the political movement that could be made when the Right stops being blindly worshipful of the military industrial complex, and sees Blackwater/ Armor/ GE for what they are, and the Dems stop being whores for corporate money and honestly starts representing the middle class.

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    The Sphynx says:

    Fuck you John Cole and the Republican horse you rode in on

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    The Raven says:

    Yves Smith, well-known and respected financial advisor and economics commentator, over at Naked Capitalism, links to and reposts the Hamsher/Norquist letter on Emanuel. I guess that makes it real. Let’s go sign the damn petition.

  410. 410
    Carolyn says:

    “This Is So Convoluted That Only Teabaggers Could Come Up With It”

    Actually, the French have been doing this for years. My first experience with a general strike, a grève générale, was when I lived there in the mid 1970s. The purpose is not to halt business until the strikers receive their demands. That is the American concept of a strike used as a union labor tactic. This is more of a protest to warn public officials that a certain issue is important enough for a worker to use a personal holiday to make his voice heard.

    The last public strike that I witnessed was in Marseille in the summer of 2008. The emergency workers from region converged on the city and circled the town hall. A few thousand were on foot with signs and banners. Others brought emergency vehicles with sirens blaring. All of this effort was for one hour. Yes, one hour only, lunchtime, 12 noon to one o’clock. Then they all drove back to their towns and cities. They clogged traffic and were very loud. They made their point.

    I think that the confusion comes because of the American idea of a strike. American police have also done this for years. They all phone in sick as a protest and call it the “Blue Flu”.

    It’s actually a good tactic but I understand the confusion. Perhaps it just needs a new name.

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