Open Thread

Tired and otherwise occupied. Talk amongst yourselves.






192 replies
  1. 1
    Demo Woman says:

    John, We’re spoiled and we expect open threads to have pup pictures. What’s up?

  2. 2
    JK says:

    What will it take to lower the temperature of the rhetoric from the wingnuts?

    Obama Facebook Poll: “Should Obama Be Killed?” Pulled From Site, Secret Service Investigate
    h/t http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....01860.html

  3. 3
    JK says:

    Lucy Vodden, who provided the inspiration for the Beatles’ song Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds, has died after a long battle with lupus. She was 46.
    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories.....6301.shtml

    Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OD6AUmozvo4

  4. 4
    SGEW says:

    Today’s BBC on Youtube discovery: Fry & Laurie’s “Privatization of the Police Force” sketch. Seems appropriate in light of today’s anti-“socia1ism” brigades.

  5. 5
    Crashman06 says:

    What’s the over/under for number of interceptions thrown in tonight’s Cowboys/Panthers game? If we’re lucky, I think there’s a chance it could be over six.

  6. 6
    geg6 says:

    Good. I need to get something off my chest that I just don’t yet feel ready to discuss with anyone IRL (like a sister, who will definitely take this far too seriously), so I’ve been waiting to muse here. I think the boyfriend may be making moves to perhaps ask me to move in. Understand that to me, fifty and never married and never wanting to, this is like asking to marry me. I’ve only ever done it once (for 18 years!) and it was a disastrous end. I am gun shy. He’s a wonderful man, though. And I really love being with him. And I may be totally reading him wrong. But I don’t think so. I see it as a big risk after the long recovery from the last one (ended 4 years ago). I like being by myself and so does he. The house is big enough to get alone time, I think. But I don’t know what to do if I’m right about where he seems to be going. Gawd, what a ramble. Thanks for letting me get that off my chest.

  7. 7
    dmsilev says:

    Publicity for Palin’s upcoming book Going Rogue:

    Harper publisher Jonathan Burnham says the former Alaska governor invested herself deeply and passionately in the project. He says the book contains fascinating detail.

    Translation from PR-speak: “It’s a bunch of nonsense, but we’re confident that a whole bunch of people will buy it regardless.”

    -dms

  8. 8
    Annie says:

    What’s up with the Steelers? I expected much better of them.

    How about a picture of Tunch and Lily? I need something to make me smile….

  9. 9
    JK says:

    From Taylor Branch’s new book The Clinton Tapes

    Bill Clinton recounted that he once pulled aside Sen. Alan Simpson (R-WY) to ask him whether he really believed that the president had done something terrible in Whitewater. Simpson’s response: “Oh, hell no. But our goal is to make people think you did, so we can pay you Democrats back for Iran-contra.”
    h/t http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....00331.html

  10. 10
  11. 11
    asiangrrlMN says:

    @SGEW: Love Fry & Laurie. I have all the episodes on DVD.

    And, Cole…TUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNCH!

    @geg6: I totally hear you. I love living by myself. I don’t know if a house would be big enough for me if someone else was in it all the time. I’m going to say that if he is moving in that direction (pun semi-intended), take a really long time pondering the pros and cons in deciding if it’s what you want. And, even though I’ll probably get flak over this, if in the end you decide you don’t want to move in with him, don’t feel guilty about it. We are not all meant to cohabitate.

  12. 12
    asiangrrlMN says:

    @AhabTRuler: I don’t know if you saw my babbling the other day, but I want Henry in the worst way. He is such the cute little ball of black fur! I especially love this pic:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/3.....934971855/

    When I brood, it’s for cats–not for babies.

  13. 13
    freelancer says:

    @JK:

    Yeah, cause Reagan and Ollie North and that whole clusterfuck was a substanceless liberal smear-job.

    I don’t really like Clinton, but what an asshole.

  14. 14
    geg6 says:

    Hey, has anyone else been watching “National Parks” by Ken Burns on PBS? OMG, I love it! It was a beautiful episode last night about the start of our unique national park system with the original parks of Yosemite and Yellowstone. John Muir was an amazing guy. And the photography is…well, amazing doesn’t begin to capture it. Tonight is an interesting counterpoint to the modern GOP because TR, that DFH commie RINO, will be featured. Soothe your souls, Juicers, and watch this.

  15. 15
    Violet says:

    @geg6:
    Two female friends – one in her 40’s, one in her 50’s, both in long term relationships – keep separate residences from their boyfriends. One lives right next door to her boyfriend, so that works well if she needs alone time. The other’s spends most nights at her place, but occasionally she tells him to go home. LOL. It works really well for both couples. Just wanted to say that living together isn’t the only way to make a long term thing work.

    Best thing you can do is communicate about it. Talk it over. Maybe do a trial thing or something. It’s hard to give up your space though.

  16. 16
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @Crashman06:

    What’s the over/under for number of interceptions thrown in tonight’s Cowboys/Panthers game? If we’re lucky, I think there’s a chance it could be over six.

    So does that mean Delhomme is going to be tossing 4 of them?

  17. 17
  18. 18
    NoVa Commie says:

    @geg6:
    Could you just initiate the talk now (I’m feelin’ ya; found the ring – this was over a decade ago – and didn’t have the stones to fend it off at the pass…mistake)?

  19. 19
    JK says:

    @freelancer:

    Alan Simpson is one of my favorite Republicans to hate.

  20. 20
    JK says:

    @geg6:

    Yes, I saw it last night and I second your endorsement.

  21. 21
    SGEW says:

    @geg6:

    Part I available online here.

    Great stuff!

  22. 22
    AhabTRuler says:

    @asiangrrlMN: Being a total cuddle-bug, Henri (explanation here) would welcome your attention. He likes to stretch out to his full length (which is pretty long for a 3-month-old kitty, he’s going to be BIG!) across a lap and luxuriate in attention.

  23. 23
    JK says:

    @SGEW:

    That was hilarious. Thanks for the Fry and Laurie clip.

  24. 24
    Crashman06 says:

    @Midnight Marauder: Given his last two games, I think that’s a definite possibility.

  25. 25
    geg6 says:

    asiangrrlMN and Violet: Thanks. You both understand. I’m very anxious because I really think it’s coming. And I want it and don’t want it. And I’d like to have something coherent to say if I’m right and I don’t know if I can be because I can’t figure out what I would really want. I stay there a few days a week, but it’s never more than a 24 hour period. I don’t even keep my stuff there. I bring a tote every time. Right now, that’s all I’m prepared to do. But we haven’t had a discussion about it yet. He just keeps trying to make me feel more and more comfortable and suggesting more overnights and brining more stuff and doing homey things like canning pears together. So I see things coming down the road. Or maybe I’m just paranoid.

  26. 26
    Incertus says:

    Since Hollywood likes remaking movies so much, I thought I’d offer a suggestion.

    And while I wish I could burn the evening watching Romo and Delhomme stink it up, alas, I have to grade shitty papers tonight.

  27. 27
    asiangrrlMN says:

    @General Winfield Stuck: That dog is ridiculously cute. She’s a stuffed animal.

  28. 28
    JK says:

    @asiangrrlMN:

    Hi, what movie do you have waiting on deck?

    Think about The Man Who Wasn’t There by the Coen brothers.

  29. 29
    Ash says:

    Is anyone else really confused about this Roman Polanski clusterfuck?

    He drugged and raped a child and then ran away like a bitch when he didn’t want to face the music, and now people are defending the scumbag?

    Mind —-> boggled.

  30. 30
    Keith G says:

    Earlier today, I asked or advice on some ‘puter issues. RareSanity and The Moar You Know came through like troopers. Thanks guys.

    Please everyone….get the best malware protection you can lay hands on ASAP. There is some stuff out there that is insidiously vicious.

  31. 31
    The next-to-last samurai says:

    More Sam pictures, please! And on the subject of baby pix, I would like to see a pic of Tunch when he was a kitten.

  32. 32
    Michael D. says:

    Someone needs love – again. I know, it’s a Bitsy thing, but Bitsy can share…

  33. 33
    Ben JB says:

    I’ve been saving this for a random open thread:

    I’m reading a bunch of 19th-century American periodicals, all high-class Brahmin stuff–the Atlantic, the North American Review, Harper’s Monthly–and I’m finding all this prehistory of the wingnut. Not only are the positions (anti-immigrant, anti-labor, anti-woman) very similar, but the methods of expression seem to be the same.

    My favorite so far is all the concern-trolling over the working-man, which runs roughly like this: “I totally support the working-man and the right to strike, even though striking inevitably leads to violence (because of how many working-men are dirty immigrants, usually Papists) and strikes never produce anything but temporary alleviations of their God-given hardship.”

  34. 34
    Ella in NM says:

    via Sully:

    Ends Before Means

    Conor Friedersdorf hammers home a truth:

    On reading Mr. Beck’s defenders, I can’t help but think that their judgment and integrity are being corroded by politics…”

    Ummm… DUHHHHHHHH!!!!

  35. 35
    JK says:

    @Keith G:

    This website is good to check out if you have computer issues

    http://www.pcradioshow.org

  36. 36
    asiangrrlMN says:

    @AhabTRuler: Oh my. Henri est charmant, n’est-ce pas? He has totally captured my heart. I can’t wait to see him grow up!

    @geg6: Well, it sounds like he’s at least trying to do it in steps to assuage your anxiety. It’s good that he’s not pushing you. You do sound like you know what you want for now (separate domiciles). I think you should stick with that.

  37. 37
    MMM says:

    From State Farm:

    Michigan is combating the problem by advising motorists not to “veer for deer.” People can put themselves at greater risk when they try to avoid hitting the animals, said Bob Felt, a spokesman for the state’s transportation department.

    ‘Brake Firmly’

    “They end up going off the road and hitting a fixed object like a tree or a pole,” Felt said. “They get more seriously injured than they would have. To prevent fatalities and reduce injuries, we ask people to hold on to the steering wheel and brake firmly and come to a controlled stop.”

  38. 38
    Scrutinizer says:

    @geg6:

    My wife and I have almost always (>20 yrs) had separate residences since we seem to wind up going to school/working in different cities, and when we are in the same place, we divide up the living space into hers, mine, and ours.

    Too much togetherness is a pain.

  39. 39
    General Winfield Stuck says:

    So let’s hear it once again how dems and repubs are the same when it comes to crazy ass talk of violence.

    During her session, Werthmann went through a litany of examples of how President Obama is like Adolf Hitler. She noted that Hitler, who acted “like an American politician,” was “elected in a 100% Christian nation.” Although she failed to once mention Antisemitism or militarism, Werthmann explained how universal healthcare, an Equal Rights Amendment, and increased taxes were telltale signs of Nazism. Werthmann also warned the audience:

    If we had our guns, we would have fought a bloody battle. So, keep your guns, and buy more guns, and buy ammunition. […] Take back America. Don’t let them take the country into Socialism. And I refer again, Hitler’s party was National Socialism. […] And that’s what we are having here right now, which is bordering on Marxism.

    This was the “Take Back America Conference” with a half dozen GOP congresscritters in attendance, including Frau Bachmann, and easily passes for mainstream Gooper wingnut affiliates.

    I don’t remember this happening at the Jackson Day Dinner, or the Netroots Convention, unless wanton Bong use counts.

  40. 40
    geg6 says:

    Ben JB: Ha! I’ve read that stuff! Did a term paper as an undergrad in an honors seminar about the political attitudes that surrounded the Homestead Strike. Crazy stuff in that things don’t really change. My maternal grandfather was a bit of a union radical back in the 1930s and as a skiled tradesman in a steel mill, that was a big deal. I did a paper on him and the organizing of the Aliquippa Jones and Laughlin works. Fascinating stuff and brave, brave men.

  41. 41
    JK says:

    HAL 9000 Vs Sgt. Hartman
    h/t http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related

    Action figures of Obama, Palin, Bachmann, etc
    h/t http://www.herobuilders.com/08.htm

  42. 42
    asiangrrlMN says:

    @AhabTRuler: No, this is best pic evah of Henri:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/3.....954875446/

    @JK: None. I am swearing off movies for now.

  43. 43
    arguingwithsignposts says:

    @asiangrrlMN: @geg6: @Violet:

    Here’s another male take on this. I have a long-distance relationship and we spend a couple of weeks together at a time sometimes, but we each have quirks, and after a while, it gets to where the quirks overtake the wonderfulness of being together. If we were living in the same town (not likely any time soon for a variety of reasons), I’d definitely have a separate residence. I’d probably sleep over a lot, but keep someplace to retreat to so we don’t wear out the wonder.

    Your concerns are valid, geg6, and if your bf wants to keep you in his life, he’ll understand.

  44. 44
    MoeLarryAndJesus says:

    1. Wouldn’t “Going Vogue” be a better title for Palin’s bullshit?

    2. What did Trent Franks look like before Hannibal Lecter ate his face?

  45. 45
    Scrutinizer says:

    @Ash: Saw the HBO documentary on the Polanski thing, and it sounds as if it’s not quite as cut and dried as all that, with plenty of prosecutorial misconduct to spice it up. But fundamentally, I really don’t care one way or another: there are a lot more important things to worry about, and I’m not wasting a lot of outrage on something that happened over 30 years ago. I’ll leave that to Nancy Grace and her soulmates.

  46. 46
    Roger Moore says:

    @Keith G:

    Please everyone….get the best malware protection you can lay hands on ASAP.

    I did. It’s called Linux. Works like a charm.

  47. 47
    Litlebritdifrnt says:

    @geg6:

    I was ten years from divorce to remarriage, I was REALLY gun shy. I met a whole bunch of guys in that time that I had really happy relationships with but the minute the “m” word was mentioned I would high-tail it in the opposite direction. I met current DH and knew from day one that he was “the one” 18 years later we are still together. I guess it all depends on how you are going to live your lives, my DH is very dedicated to his job and therefore leaves me alone alot, so I basically live alone from Monday – Friday, I think that is why it works. Come the summer when he is home for six weeks I am like “why don’t you go back to work already!” He He He.

  48. 48
    Brick Oven Bill says:

    In a previous discussion on the essence of nuclear power, gocart mozart challenged my mastery of the subject with “http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/kids/energy.cfm?page=nuclear_home-basics”>this link to a government web-site, alleging that friction was not the source of the future of our nation’s electricity.

    This is like saying that a pistol, and not a bullet, causes gunshot wounds.

    In the interest of thread discipline and making good on a pledge, this discussion ended. In the interest of my sanity, this thread will contain the final explanation.

    The fission product particles interact with other metals and mass around the Uranium. They are slowed and stopped by friction. In addition to the fission product particles, additional energy is given off in the form of radiation. This I did not address as it is the minority of energy, but people like to pick and bitch so here you go.

    This radiation energy takes the forms of Alpha, Beta, Gamma, and Neutron radiation. This radiation is absorbed in the electron rings of the atoms surrounding the fission event, and makes them excited. The excited atoms then gyrate, I would like to think in a manner similar to geg6 and her soon to be live-in, but who knows. They are not known Teabaggers.

    Anyway, this gyration of the excited atoms creates relative motion between the gyrating excited atom and the relatively static surrounding mass. This relative motion, on a sub-molecular, atomic level, is retarded by friction. This friction, slows the gyration, and in a manner similar to the manner in which fission product particles have their kinetic energy transformed to thermal energy, transforms the atomic kinetic energy to thermal energy.

    This thermal energy from radiation is added to the thermal energy from the fission product particles, boils water, spins turbines, and creates electricity.

    Windmills are a complete fraud in a modern economy. Do not listen to anyone who says otherwise. They are not being honest. Either that or they are stupid.

  49. 49
    JK says:

    @General Winfield Stuck:

    More Republican stupidity

    Rep. Trent Franks (R-AZ): “I believe he [Obama] is a natural born citizen of the United States under the Constitution. And therefore, even if he acts un-American and he seems to go against American interests, I’d still believe he’s a natural-born American citizen.”
    h/t http://thinkprogress.org/2009/.....unamerican

  50. 50
    Linkmeister says:

    @geg6: What amazed me while watching last night’s episode was the number of heroes whose names I’ve never heard. Senator John Conness, R-California, for example. It was his legislation which gave California jurisdiction over Yosemite.

    On May 17, 1864, Senator John Conness of California, acting at the urging of some of his constituents, introduced a bill to Congress that proposed something totally unprecedented in human history: setting aside a large tract of natural scenery for the future enjoyment of everyone. On June 30, 1864, President Abraham Lincoln signed an act of Congress ceding the Yosemite Valley and the Mariposa Grove of Giant Sequoias to the state of California.

    I have been and probably will be again a member of various conservation advocacy groups, and this was the first I’d ever heard of him. This was an heroic act, and yet he’s gotten no public credit in 140 years!

  51. 51
    Linkmeister says:

    For clarity: the link in my #50 goes to Conness at Wikipedia; the blockquote comes from the PBS National Parks companion website.

  52. 52
    Deer Hunting With Jesus says:

    @geg6: I’m not watching, but my dream is to ‘Go Galt’ – sell just about everything, buy myself an Evergreen Ever-Lite RV and spend the rest of my days volunteering at a different national park as long as I can.

    Ah, now that’s H-E-A-V-E-N!

  53. 53
    Calouste says:

    @General Winfield Stuck:

    Of course Hitler was so much into Soc!alism and Communism that at the first possible opportunity he banned the Soc!al-Democratic and Communist parties.

    And after a terrorist attack on a national symbolic building he suspended parts of the constitution including habeas corpus and the privacy of communications. Yes, there is an American president that did that. No, his name is not Obama.

  54. 54
    JK says:

    @MoeLarryAndJesus:

    What did Trent Franks look like before Hannibal Lecter ate his face?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F.....poster.png

  55. 55
    Parole Officer Burke says:

    @Brick Oven Bill:

    In the interest of my sanity . . .

    Lost cause, buddy. Lost cause.

  56. 56
    freelancer says:

    This is like saying that a pistol, and not a bullet, causes gunshot wounds.

    That’s right, I can kill people by throwing bullets at them. I completely forgot about that.

    Maybe BOB’s been getting his metaphors from Tom Friedman.

  57. 57
    asiangrrlMN says:

    @AhabTRuler: P.S. I commented on “Cravat”. My handle is deliquescentdreams.

  58. 58
    The next-to-last samurai says:

    Did KO quit, or get fired from, Msnbc?

  59. 59
    SGEW says:

    @Ben JB: That’s pretty interesting stuff. How were these ur-wingnut groups portrayed in the periodicals?

  60. 60
    Irregardless says:

    ..Talk amongst yourselves.

    So I gotta ask, when is the next thread fellating Andrew Sullivan due?

  61. 61
    Fern says:

    @Violet: I know another couple who live in a duplex – he’s downstairs and she’s upstairs.

    Another couple lives apart – for well over ten years – but have now built a summer place where they spend weekends and vacations together.

    Lots of ways to be a couple.

  62. 62
  63. 63
    JK says:

    @The next-to-last samurai:

    Did KO quit, or get fired from, Msnbc?

    I’m thinking he must have some medical problem.

  64. 64
    Dreggas says:

    @MMM:

    And if ya hit the dear….Hey FREE MEAT!

  65. 65
    freelancer says:

    @Irregardless:

    I dunno, but let us know exactly how he’s wrong no matter what he says. My breath is bated.

  66. 66
    asiangrrlMN says:

    @The next-to-last samurai: What, huh?

    @Fern: A friend suggested the duplex idea to me.

  67. 67
    Keith G says:

    @JK: Thanks

    @geg6: Kate Hepburn said that after a certain age it was best to “live close and visit often”. But then, her relationship with Tracey was exceptional on several levels.

  68. 68
    trollhattan says:

    Hey, another day another bOb fail. I nearly dropped my coffee cup.

    http://www.smud.org/en/communi.....index.aspx

    <$0.05/kWh

  69. 69
    HumboldtBlue says:

    @geg6:

    Don’t do it Geg, live alone, remain comfortable. Fern says it best, there are lots of ways to be a great couple, enjoy each other and be happy. No reason to have to live together to do that. My vote — keep him in his place, you remain in yours.

  70. 70
    Polish the Guillotines says:

    @AhabTRuler: Wow. Momo looks startlingly identical to Bella. They look like they could be litter-mates.

  71. 71
    Keith G says:

    @Brick Oven Bill: Just stop.

    Your comments here usually are about whatever is playing in the theatre of your mind. And thus, you are boring.

    Go away.

  72. 72
    JK says:

    @asiangrrlMN:

    Olbermann has missed an awful lot of Countdown broadcasts lately. No other cable host gets this many days off.

  73. 73
    asiangrrlMN says:

    @Polish the Guillotines: Woah, Bella and Momo do look a lot alike–both are such cuties.

    JK, really? I haven’t watched Olbermann or Rachel in awhile. I hope nothing’s wrong with Keith.

  74. 74
    Neutron Flux says:

    @Brick Oven Bill: I work at a nuclear power plant. I was a licensed Senior Reactor Operator by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. You, my friend, are full of shit with regard to your “friction” fiction. There are pretty good explanations of the release of energy during the fission process on this thing called the google. Check it out.

  75. 75
    Polish the Guillotines says:

    @JK: Especially any broadcasts with Scott Mueller. His books are amazingly comprehensive and very well written (easy to digest considering the geekiness of the subject matter).

  76. 76
    gnomedad says:

    From pourmecoffee:
    How the book was explained to Palin: “It’s like the Facebook posts we write for you — only more and on bound paper.”

  77. 77
    dr. luba says:

    From Gun Counter Gomer’s comments, discussing Kimberly Young, the constituent of Boehner’s who died of flu becuase she couldn’t afford to get treated. It’s not just about the countertops:

    While what happened to Kimberly is of course very sad, you are absolutely correct: her death was very likely caused by her own bad decisions. It would be interesting to learn what kind of car she drove. Was it a late model car which saddled her with $4-500 dollar a month payments? Did an expensive iPhone rest on her badside table, and a recently purchased HDTV flat-screen TV grace her living room? Perhaps not, but many people have stretched their budget to the limit with purchases of things they could have probably done without, and when the need arises to spend a couple of hundred dollars for a doctors visit and some medicine, find that their checking account is empty and their credit cards are maxed out.

    Wankers.

  78. 78
    Brick Oven Bill says:

    Your link contains glaring omissions trollhattan. It does not mention that the wind turbines are subsidized at $23.44/MW-hr, or that the wind stops, and that conventional power plants must be kept permanently on line, operating in an inefficient manner, to back them up, in a modern economy.

    I was drunk once, listening to Warren Zevon and hurled myself against the wall to see if it would work. It was OK. But this action did not provide me with nearly the lasting guttural satisfaction of the thought that some strange woman, lunging at me out of nowhere, might at any time punch me in the throat.

    This is the beauty of Balloon Juice. I wish you happiness geg6.

    Titles, titles, we all have them Neutron Flux. Mine is bigger.

  79. 79
    JK says:

    @Polish the Guillotines:

    Beyond the valuable information they always provide, it’s just fun listening to Joe, Hank, and Alfred. They have great chemistry with each other.

  80. 80
    asiangrrlMN says:

    That’s it, folks. I am leaving the human race. Per WaMo, I give to you, the Michele Bachmann “action figure”.

    I am now going to commit seppuku.

    @dr. luba: May whomever posted that suffer greatly and be denied care because of a preexisting condition.

  81. 81
    Soylent Green says:

    Neutron Flux, BOB’s understanding of technical matters comes entirely from thumbing through old copies of Popular Mechanics while he’s waiting for his car at the Jiffy Lube.

  82. 82
    J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford says:

    @The next-to-last samurai:

    Did KO quit, or get fired from, Msnbc?

    @asiangrrlMN:

    Olbermann has missed an awful lot of Countdown broadcasts lately. No other cable host gets this many days off.

    Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur.

  83. 83
    Neutron Flux says:

    @Brick Oven Bill: It is not about titles, it about being wrong. And you are, about fission.

    Wind power OTOH, you are essentially correct. It is problematic from a grid management perspective.

  84. 84
    Polish the Guillotines says:

    @asiangrrlMN: Holy cow. It’s like fucking Westworld meets Stepford Wives. Somewhere, in a subterranean lair, Dr. Evil must be cranking out these wingnut fembots.

    I’d say we’re doomed, but that seems too mild.

  85. 85
    General Winfield Stuck says:

    If it hasn’t already been posted today, here is a first hand account of the wingnut Take Back Murrika Conference by David Weigel of the Washington INdependent, showing the level of crazy that now is your modern GOP. Seems they are focusing their fire on the so called “Homosexual Extremist Movement”.
    MUST READ, IMHO

    And here is a blurb on Sully’s blog highlighting the esteemed Rev. Rick Warren who Obama played footsie with during the campaign, and was the subject of some heated posts at Bj.

    In the halls and from the stages of the conference, there were constant warnings of fascist, anti-Christian campaigns to break down American morals and sovereignty. Rev. Rick Scarborough, a pastor who advised Mike Huckabee’s presidential campaign, pounded the podium at his Friday afternoon speech, warning that the president’s pro-gay agenda was endangering Christians who spoke out against gay rights.

    “The day the president put his hand on the bible,” said Scarborough, “his minions were changing official White House Website to reflect a whole new understanding of civil rights, to refer to homosexuals.” The Bible, said Scarborough, called these people “sodomites, which no one wants to talk about because it reminds them of their behavior.”

    Some activists followed this up with a breakout session on “How to Counter the Homosexual Extremist Movement,” where they learned about transgender awareness days at public schools. And some went to “How to Stop Feminist and Gay Attacks on the Military,” where they were informed that upwards of 200,000 active duty members of the military might quit if “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell” is repealed.

    Guess the good rev. sent back his magic unicorn.

    These people are all certifiable and some mean sumbitches.

  86. 86
    asiangrrlMN says:

    @Polish the Guillotines: I know! I’m heading for the hills. Ya with me?

  87. 87
    kay says:

    @dr. luba:

    Wow. Detailed fantasy. Health care bores them, though. It’s complicated and….hard. It isn’t about health care.
    It’s just another excuse to fantasize about lurking in her shrubbery, peering in her windows.
    They’re the Responsibility Police. Next they’ll send some jackass young conservative over with a camera, and a costume. I’d get a civil protection order, if I were her parents. We don’t want them slinking around in the shadows at the funeral, and stinking the place up.

  88. 88
    Demo Woman says:

    So if one doesn’t have cable.. who is on for Keith and where is Keith?

  89. 89
    JK says:

    @asiangrrlMN:

    Yeah, I mentioned this in #41. In fairness to the company, they also make Obama and Biden action figures. It’s a truly horrible likeness of Bachmann.

  90. 90
    Morbo says:

    @asiangrrlMN: Didn’t want to derail the baby thread, but yes, Lions winning was a good moment. And the night is over.

  91. 91
    soonergrunt says:

    suggested new word for the lexicon–
    Riehlity–the state of the world that best matches the view of right-wingers. This is often at odds with the view of the world held by the rest of America. It is often reinforced or supported by not enabling comments on one’s blog, like Powerline, or by deleting blog comments that point out one’s glaring hypocrisy, like that practiced by Dan Riehl. As opposed to the garden-variety wingnuttiness of ignoring things like facts, basic physical laws of the universe, etc.

  92. 92
    Neutron Flux says:

    @Soylent Green: I do think you are correct. I will now stop adding to the entropy of the universe by resisting any further comment to this person.

  93. 93
    asiangrrlMN says:

    @JK: OK, I’m an idiot. I didn’t see your links. I don’t care. The equivalent of Obama/Biden is not Palin/Wilson/Bachmann. Then again, I don’t know what the equivalent would be.

    @Morbo: Now you can rest easy because they have exceeded their win total from last year!

  94. 94
    Morbo says:

    @General Winfield Stuck: Wait, did I miss something? Did Warren change his last name to Scarborough?

  95. 95
    eemom says:

    I’m sure I’ll be sorry I asked this, but…….BOB, why do you hang out at a blog where people are always very, um, frank about their, er, feelings about your pompous, sexist, and occasionally deranged comments?

    Why not go hang out at Firedoglake? There’s way more extreme lefties there and they have a nice prissy little rule against insulting other commenters.

  96. 96
    Corner Stone says:

    @J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford:

    Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur.

    I don’t have any news about his absence but IMO it’s probably a mix of his dad being in the hospital (which he’s spoken of several times) and his Football Night in America gig on NBC.
    Could be any of that or none of it, just IMO.

  97. 97
    geg6 says:

    Fern @61: Now you’re talking. He actually has a small apartment downstairs. We’d share a kitchen. Which is good because we both love to cook and he’s probably better than me and I think I’m pretty good. It’s a big old, rennovated farmhouse on about 2 acres with a garden and small orchard with berry patches along the paths. Pretty tempting as far as surroundings. And closer to my workplace. There are good reasons to do it. I’m just really gun shy. I don’t know how I feel. And it’s not about him; he’s great. It’s me.

  98. 98
    JK says:

    @J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford:

    Keith Olbermann is NOT Jewish

    JASON BATEMAN: Wait. You don‘t want our announcement now. You‘re invited. You‘re invited. A big law passed in California recently. Hun? We‘ve got a two-fer with Portia and Ellen. We‘ve got a deal on the church and you‘re invited.

    DAVID CROSS: It‘s Unitarian.

    KEITH OLBERMANN: Good, I was raised in that faith.

    h/t Countdown transcript for Tuesday, June 24, 2008, http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25368154

  99. 99
    Tattoosydney says:

    @asiangrrlMN:

    Fry & Laurie

    Have you seen their “Jeeves and Wooster“?

  100. 100
    General Winfield Stuck says:

    @Morbo:

    No he didn’t, but I did get them mixed up. sorry for the error.

  101. 101
    Joey Maloney says:

    Rachel Maddow continues an impassioned exposition of the VRWC attacking ACORN. Good for her. I would sure like to see this break beyond her lonely hour of MSNBC, but I know I’m dreaming.

  102. 102
    asiangrrlMN says:

    @Tattoosydney: I have that whole series, too, but I don’t find it as funny. I haven’t watched them all.

  103. 103
    Ben JB says:

    @SGEW: Oh no, these wingnuts were the authors of the articles, not the topics. Maybe “wingnuts” is a little strong–at least the working-man concern troll is less ur-teabagger and more ersatz WaPo op-ed columnist.

    (That said, there is occasionally some push-back in the letters pages.)

    Addendum: if anyone wants to talk about John Hay, our 37th Secretary of State, I’m always interested.

  104. 104
    JK says:

    @asiangrrlMN:

    The equivalent of Obama/Biden is not Palin/Wilson/Bachmann.

    You’re thinking way too logically and exercising too much common sense. Of course, Obama and Biden are not as far to the left as Palin, Wilson, and Bachmann are to the right. The sad truth is that the Republican Party has gone off a cliff and all the moderate, rational Republicans have either died or been driven out of the party.

  105. 105
    asiangrrlMN says:

    @JK: I meant intelligence-wise and sanity-wise, but that, too.

    Sigh. I weary of the shenanigans that are American politics.

  106. 106
    HRA says:

    geg6: Make 2 lists of the pros and cons of living together and living apart. I found that helps me in making decisions.

    It didn’t help me 25 years ago when I opened my kitchen door to see G standing there with all his possessions. One year later we were married. OK I admit it was a total surprise.

    We do honor each other’s need for space. He has the garage and the cellar. The rest is mine. :)

  107. 107
    Betsy says:

    @Ash:

    @Scrutinizer:

    I fully agree with this take.

    Scrutinizer, from what I’ve read, that movie was both biased and misleading. There’s more at that link, and at other sites that they link to.

  108. 108
    Svensker says:

    @asiangrrlMN:

    I haven’t watched Olbermann or Rachel in awhile. I hope nothing’s wrong with Keith.

    He was fine on football last night.

  109. 109
    KCinDC says:

    Things were even crazier and more racist at the 9/12 Tea Party here in DC than I thought.

  110. 110
    JK says:

    @asiangrrlMN:

    intelligence-wise and sanity-wise

    You have as much chance of finding intelligence, wisdom, and sanity in today’s Republican Party as you do of finding a band that plays Amish Glam Rock.

  111. 111
    arguingwithsignposts says:

    @JK:

    Amish Glam Rock

    Now that’s something I’d like to see.

  112. 112
    Litlebritdifrnt says:

    @JKsorry that literally had me LOL.

  113. 113
    asiangrrlMN says:

    @JK: How about a metal band named Amish Rebel Radio?

  114. 114
    Mike in NC says:

    It’s a truly horrible likeness of Bachmann.

    She’s a truly horrible excuse for a human being, so no big deal.

  115. 115
    Tattoosydney says:

    @asiangrrlMN:

    It’s definitely not as laugh out loud funny, but I really enjoy their characterisations.

    Mind you, nothing could top this.

  116. 116
    General Winfield Stuck says:

    @KCinDC:

    That video was funny is an ugly way. I very much doubt the ACORN would be selling The Gadsden or “Don’t Tread on Me” flags at a wingnut protest.

    The Gadsden Flag, AKA “Don’t Tread on Me” is a patriotic symbol named after a Marine Corp Colonel Christopher Gadsden and is associated with the fighting independent spirit of America. Or what this wingnut would consider all American, if he wasn’t dumb as a hatchet sack.

  117. 117
    Betsy says:

    My favorite quote so far on Polanski:
    “I look forward to more detailed explanations of who the Real Victim is here, and more fine-grained elaboration of the criteria — other than “marvelous dinner guest” — for being issued a Get Out of Child Rape Free card.”

  118. 118
    Comrade Darkness says:

    @HRA: If you are math inclined put the items from each column into boxes labelled sorta important and very important, put a number from one to ten next to each of the items in each column for how severe that item is. Multiple the items in the very important by 3 and write out the totals. Write HEADS under the pro column and TAILS under the con column. Then take out a penny, place it on your thumb as if to flip it in the air, and decide which you are wishing the coin to come up as. Then you’re done.

    Oh, you could add up the columns to, if you wanted.

  119. 119
    JoyousMN says:

    Wow, has anyone else been reading Little Green Footballs?

    Before you throw things at me, I only went ’cause John said they were sounding sane over there. So I peeked in and have been reading Johnson’s posts and comments for the past week.

    It’s amazing. There are a few times and topics that make me know I’m on a right-wing site, but if you check it out today it’s remarkable. There’s a post where Johnson derides Malkin and all his commenters pile on too (rightfully so, of course). Another post about Social-con extremists, and one where he calls anti-abortionist, the Rev Donald Spitz “a terrorist.”

    Just wow.

  120. 120
    bago says:

    Oh god. The friction nuts. Either it’s one guy on multiple forums, or there are more than one of them. Scary thought.

  121. 121
    Anne Laurie says:

    @Ben JB:

    I’m reading a bunch of 19th-century American periodicals, all high-class Brahmin stuff—the Atlantic, the North American Review, Harper’s Monthly—and I’m finding all this prehistory of the wingnut. Not only are the positions (anti-immigrant, anti-labor, anti-woman) very similar, but the methods of expression seem to be the same.

    My favorite so far is all the concern-trolling over the working-man…

    Have you run across Mark Twain’s response to a popular top-tier preacher excusing his parishoners’ un-Christian anti-worker prejudices on the grounds that the gently born, like the finest scenting dogs, were genetically over-sensitive to the filth and stink inseparable from the horny-handed sons of Martha? Possibly the first reference to DFHs by our high-minded American Very Serious People…

  122. 122
    Ash Can says:

    @geg6: Late to the party here, but FWIW, my advice would be to tell your guy everything you’ve told us. If he’s as great a guy as you say he is, not only will he understand, he’ll already have realized this. And relationships can certainly thrive when both parties have their separate turfs (whether figurative or literal) staked out.

    The advice that couples can be couples in a variety of ways nails it. No truer words were spoken.

  123. 123
    Comrade Darkness says:

    @Keith G: I’ve taken to running safari with java and plug-ins disabled. If I really need to see video, I bring firefox to the front. Even on a mac, Adobe’s products have been a serious effing security hole. On any platform, you should not be letting a browser run flash or open pdfs automagically.

  124. 124
    asiangrrlMN says:

    @Tattoosydney: Love. them. That clip is hysterical. I just don’t care for the Hugh Laurie character in the other series. Too bad as I really enjoy the Stephen Fry butler.

  125. 125
    JK says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt:
    @arguingwithsignposts:

    Thanks.

    Yes, there’s something about the concept of 4 guys dressed in traditional Amish clothing wearing lipstick, mascara, and fake eyelashes that I find strangely compelling.

  126. 126
    Ash says:

    @Betsy: Yeah, I’m not really sure how it managed to hook so many people. Admittedly, I only saw about 20 minutes of the documentary, but it was blatantly one-sided. And even then, it’s not like his guilt is in doubt whatsoever. Instead of appealing the ruling like most poor suckers who are on the receiving end of judicial misconduct, he just ran away and all his rich friends are supporting him.

  127. 127
    kay says:

    @Betsy:

    I don’t get it either, Betsy. And I’m perfectly sincere. I don’t understand it.
    Haul him back and try him, like anyone else. If he has issues with prosecutorial misconduct, he’ll have ample opportunity to raise them.

  128. 128
    jl says:

    Where is Tunch. I get nervous unless I get periodic updates on the whereabouts of Tunch. He’s still east of continental divide, right? Right?

  129. 129
    Ash Can says:

    @JoyousMN: I’m tempted to start commenting there, but I’m not sure what the protocols are. For example, I’m not sure if F-bombs and other obscenities are allowed. If anyone can enlighten me, I’d be grateful. I’m just looking to butt in and contribute my two cents, not stir up any serious shit.

  130. 130
    jwb says:

    @asiangrrlMN: Maybe we can turn them into voodoo dolls.

    Edit to Add: Edit now available on Firefox for the Mac.

  131. 131
    JK says:

    @asiangrrlMN:

    Thanks for the link. I hope you won’t take offense when I say that I don’t wish to become a friend of this band. They’re a little too out there for my taste.

  132. 132
    KCinDC says:

    @General Winfield Stuck, I imagine the wingnut recognized the flag. There were a fair number of them at the protest. I think his theory was that ACORN operatives were trying to divert wingnut money to fund their evil schemes by selling things the wingnuts would like to the unsuspecting. Why he suspected black vendors rather than anyone else selling stuff is left as an exercise for the reader.

  133. 133
    Calouste says:

    @soonergrunt:

    I guess that makes Orly Taitz a Riehltor?

  134. 134
    celticdragon says:

    Charles Johnson at LGF is funnier then hell tonight… :)

    Welcome to the ex wingnut pool, Charles. I can tell you that the water is fine!

    *****************************************************
    Once again, the Obama-Hitler thing is corrupting the minds of poor, innocent, helpless children, brainwashing them into robotic Marxist drones with the power of his indoctro-beams. These children and their parents thought they were going to the White House to take part in an inspiring event that they’d remember their whole lives — only to be sucked into the Obama Whirlpool of Marxism!™

    And the truly heinous part of it: he’s concealing his evil machinations in something as seemingly innocuous as promoting the Olympics for the city of Chicago! Not for the United States, mind you — for Chicago!

    Wait a minute. Don’t they have … foreigners at the Olympics? Maybe even people from … Indonesia? Things that make you go, “Hmmm.”

    Don’t worry, though. Michelle Malkin sees through the plot, as usual. It’s nothing but a scheme for Obama to scratch the backs of his Chicago cronies: Michelle Malkin » Obamas using schoolkids as junior lobbyists for Olympics. What would we do without her to reveal Obama’s secret plans?

    Hopefully, the American people will rise up in outrageous outrage, and make sure the Olympics happen in Spain or Argentina, where they don’t mind foreigners.

    http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/

  135. 135
    General Winfield Stuck says:

    @KCinDC:

    I think I heard a “boy” at some point. The rest is just my libtard tendencies to speculate wildly without proof. :–)

  136. 136
    JK says:

    @Tattoosydney: @asiangrrlMN:

    As a fellow Hugh Laurie fan, have either of you seen the series Fortysomething? It first aired in 2003. It’s not fall on the floor funny, but it’s very good. Hugh Laurie could make reading the phone book entertaining as far as I’m concerned. That goes for Stephen Fry as well.

    Have either of you read the novels written by Fry and Laurie? I haven’t but they’re on my list. Fry’s novel Making History won the Sidewise Award for Alternate History.

  137. 137
    AhabTRuler says:

    @celticdragon: Yeah, LGF is/was enough of a cesspool that Chucky’s gonna be on probation a good long time.

  138. 138
    General Winfield Stuck says:

    @celticdragon:

    Not only Johnson’s post funny, but I do not recognize the comments as being associated with the LGF I used to visit after 9-11 when the place put Freeperville to shame much of the time. A remarkable turn about, and the comments are equally hilarious.

  139. 139
    JoyousMN says:

    @Ash Can:

    I haven’t been able to register to comment. It’s been closed. I have the same wonders you do. But I’d love to interact with them, since it seems as though these folks might be leading the “not so insane” segment of the Repub party.

  140. 140
    asiangrrlMN says:

    @jwb: Oooh oooh! Now there’s an idea….

    @JK: Heh. I don’t even know their music. I just found them on the Googles. I never saw Fortysomething. Now I suppose I have to find it.

    @Betsy: I am in agreement with you and those who say, let him come back and stand trial. I went into a longer rant the other day which is why I’m trying to stay out of it, but it bothers me that so many people are willing to dismiss it because he’s rich or because he’s famous or because he’s old.

  141. 141
    DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal) says:

    Oh god. The friction nuts.

    If he would just reach a bit higher he wouldn’t be applying the friction to his nuts.

  142. 142
    Brachiator says:

    @geg6:

    I like being by myself and so does he.

    And yet it sounds like he may like you enough to want to break out of his old habits and comfort zones. That should tell you something.

    I can understand having your own habits and preferences.
    I do not understand letting yourself be held hostage by a past disastrously ending relationship. Your boyfriend is NOT that other guy (presumably). Who you are now is not entirely who you were then.

    Whatever you decide, you have to ask yourself what it is you want, and what you are willing to do to get it.

    The rest is commentary.

    If he’s as great a guy as you say he is, not only will he understand, he’ll already have realized this.

    Men are not mind readers and there is nothing that will cause problems more than the unrealistic expectation that a man is supposed to magically “already” realize what you want or expect. Even if he is a great guy.

  143. 143
    freelancer says:

    Just unwrapped my new 32GB iTouch, and sweet jebus if
    this thing isn’t the sexiest little piece of hardware I’ve ever come across. I upgraded from my 8gb nano and the touch is light years ahead of it.

    It’s taking awhile to sync though, I guess the first time from 0gb used is the longest.

  144. 144
    Fulcanelli says:

    Re: Keith Olbermann… My wife saw somewhere that his father was really ill,hence the time off, and he did lose his mother not long ago.

    @asiangrrlMN:

    That’s it, folks. I am leaving the human race. Per WaMo, I give to you, the Michele Bachmann “action figure”… I am now going to commit seppuku.

    Don’t get out your Ginsu knife just yet, MEH… That was the kid’s version. The adult version reportedly is much larger and anatomically correct. Heh.

    /as BoB fumbles for his credit card

  145. 145
    arguingwithsignposts says:

    @Brachiator:

    the human being is a strange creature, though. The things that make a relationship worthwhile can be crushed when other things are added to the mix. I agree that the past relationship shouldn’t be an anchor. But moving in together is a big thing, with huge adjustments that can break the things that make the relationship beautiful.

    As you say,

    Men are not mind readers and there is nothing that will cause problems more than the unrealistic expectation that a man is supposed to magically “already” realize what you want or expect. Even if he is a great guy.

    Perhaps I phrased that incorrectly. If he realizes you are what he wants, he will understand and realize what you mean.

    Allow me the mushy for a moment. I realize that my gf has a certain need to live alone, to be empowered in that sense (for lack of a better term). But we also connect powerfully on many other levels. I will take what I can get (without living together or marriage, for that matter), because it’s worth it. It’s worth it for both of us.

    And that – i think – is the key. if it’s worth it for you to live together, then it will be worth it for him. If it’s NOT worth it for you, then it won’t be worth it for him, even though he might think it is in the short term. The relationship is the important thing – not the living quarters.

  146. 146
    Fulcanelli says:

    @geg6: If you want to get a feel for whether or not you should move in together, go to each others’ upcoming holiday family functions as a couple. Observe carefully how he interacts with his family and how they interact with each other. It’s like checking out the parents of a puppy you’re considering adopting.

    It’ll make you or break you. Also.

  147. 147
    arguingwithsignposts says:

    @arguingwithsignposts:

    And you probably shouldn’t take any advice from me. :)

    love always.

  148. 148
    trollhattan says:

    $23.44/MW-hr

    Got a cite for that figger, sparky? Didn’t think so; you never do. FWIW SMUD has very good electricity rates despite covering decommissioning costs for a retired nuke plant.

    Now I’m faaaaascinated at what price a new, unsubsized nuke would deliver power at in the States. Not to mention where it will be sited. Not that we’ll ever find out. What does Glenn Beck say?

    Question for the sane juicers: Would a new commercial reactor have to be built to withstand an A380 strike?

  149. 149
    freelancer says:

    Hitler finds out Va Tech beat Nebraska by 1 point.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GuGqPKP3xw

  150. 150
    Tattoosydney says:

    @freelancer:

    Yep. The first time always takes a very long time, as it squeezes all that data on… after that, syncs and updates are usually only a minute or so, unless you significantly change the tracks that you are storing on it…

  151. 151
    Skepticat says:

    @dr. luba: Wankers doesn’t begin to express it. I can’t think of a suitably emphatic word/phrase. This makes me actually want to hurt that person, but instead it’s hurt me, creating such a serious headache that I’m going to bed. Not sure I can brush my teeth first, they’re clenched too tightly.

  152. 152
    ellaesther says:

    @dr. luba: Wow. Dumping on a dead person. That, my friends, is klass with a capital K.

    Holy fuck.

  153. 153
    Fulcanelli says:

    @ellaesther: But they do it with such style once the target is dead. If she was alive, they’d be snarling and hurling dog whistle coded insults about their mother not raising them right.

    If there is a hell…

  154. 154
    tripletee says:

    @freelancer:

    Hitler finds out Va Tech beat Nebraska by 1 point.

    That was excellent. Though I’m guessing Pelini’s reaction in the locker room made enraged Hitler look like Bob Ross on Valium.

  155. 155
    ellaesther says:

    @Tattoosydney: Hey! Tattoosydney! I have an entirely random question for you!

    This weekend, I got together with a group of people I studied with 25 years ago, and one of them has been living in NZ for 22 of those years. I asked her to bring us typical New Zealand sweets (“lollies,” I suppose!), and she brought us (gulp) Pineapple Lumps.

    Do you have Pineapple Lumps in Australia, too? The packaging says they are “as much a part of New Zealand as the Haka!” or something, so perhaps your people have been spared. My word. I never thought I would meet a chocolate I didn’t like!

  156. 156
    soonergrunt says:

    @Calouste:
    It just might, because she does own the crazy ground.

  157. 157
    freelancer says:

    Idk how you guys comment on your mobiles but this is awkward.

  158. 158
    Jay in Oregon says:

    @arguingwithsignposts:

    Good to see you still around.

    Mixed bag today: some nice quiet time spent on the couch watching TV together, but a gesture that was intended to be sweet seemed to go awry.

    Tomorrow is another day.

  159. 159
    General Winfield Stuck says:

    @freelancer:

    I can barely get my big fingers to punch out a number on my cell. Texting comments would make me crazy and numerous 4 letter words would ensue, I think.

  160. 160
    ellaesther says:

    @General Winfield Stuck: Ah, but would you be able to type out the four letter words with your big fingers?

  161. 161
    General Winfield Stuck says:

    @ellaesther:

    Prolly come out as fock thas blockberry, shzt, close enough to be understood by fellow balloon juice potty mouths.:)

  162. 162

    A typoed swear word loses much of its impact, guvk seems odd for a sexual reference…

  163. 163
    Brachiator says:

    @arguingwithsignposts:

    the human being is a strange creature, though. The things that make a relationship worthwhile can be crushed when other things are added to the mix.

    Things will get added to the mix, no matter what. You can’t stop it, you can’t anticipate it, you can’t prevent it. And yeah, I guess the relationship could be crushed, but it could stay the same or get better. I’ve never figured a way of computing the risk.

    I agree that the past relationship shouldn’t be an anchor. But moving in together is a big thing, with huge adjustments that can break the things that make the relationship beautiful.

    Yep. Life’s an adventure. That’s half the fun, if you can live that way. On the other hand, some big adjustments can indeed break the things that make the relationship beautiful. Each person has to decide what they want, and how they can live. But there are no guarantees either way, since NOT adjusting can also break the relationship.

    Perhaps I phrased that incorrectly. If he realizes you are what he wants, he will understand and realize what you mean.

    I’m not sure that there is a way to phrase this correctly. There is no man (or woman) in this universe who can be transformed by love into a mind reader, especially if this is an expectation of the other person.

    Mature men and women don’t hide behind stuff like this.

    Allow me the mushy for a moment. I realize that my gf has a certain need to live alone, to be empowered in that sense (for lack of a better term). But we also connect powerfully on many other levels. I will take what I can get (without living together or marriage, for that matter), because it’s worth it. It’s worth it for both of us.

    Not mushy at all. Makes perfect sense.

    And that – i think – is the key. if it’s worth it for you to live together, then it will be worth it for him. If it’s NOT worth it for you, then it won’t be worth it for him, even though he might think it is in the short term. The relationship is the important thing – not the living quarters.

    But this is not true. Whatever happens in a relationship has to fulfill both people. Ultimately, what makes you happy is what makes YOU happy. If YOU are happy not living with someone who needs their separate space, then everything is fine. But if ultimately YOU need the additional connection of living together or marriage, then you may have a decision to make.

    People no more “need” to stay in a relationship for the sake of a relationship than they need to stay in a marriage for the sake of the marriage, or a Church, or even the children.

    They say love conquers all
    You can’t start it like a car,
    You can’t stop it with a gun.

    Warren Zevon, Searching for a Heart

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVuXq0dyb90

  164. 164

    @General Winfield Stuck:
    I guess you gotta be quick around here

  165. 165

    @Brachiator:

    I never offer advice about relationships, I know about my own and that’s actually doing pretty good.

    What I do know is that change is always the norm. Expecting something different won’t make it so. I have no idea whether other people should live together or not, but expecting things to remain static is unrealistic.

    Ann Landers is dead and I’m not applying for her job.

  166. 166
    Bubblegum Tate says:

    @General Winfield Stuck:

    On top of the comments funny, there was a pretty good discussion about the merits of multilingual education. I don’t know what caused the change of heart over there, but it’s nice to see.

  167. 167
    Brachiator says:

    @Chuck Butcher:

    I never offer advice about relationships, I know about my own and that’s actually doing pretty good.

    I agree. In this case, we were kinda asked.

    What I do know is that change is always the norm. Expecting something different won’t make it so. I have no idea whether other people should live together or not, but expecting things to remain static is unrealistic.

    Yep.

  168. 168
    BethanyAnne says:

    Dunno if this was said upthread, but remember that KO’s dad is in the hospital with um, cancer, I think. That could take him away from the desk pretty easily.

  169. 169

    @Brachiator:

    we were kinda asked.

    (cool actual buttons)

    To be sure, we were – I was just declining not criticizing.

  170. 170
    Anne Laurie says:

    @geg6: Probably too late to the party, again, but: One thing that’s worked for some of my gun-shy friends entering the live-together phase was keeping a go-bag stashed somewhere other than the shared domicile. Sounds paranoid or too soap-opera, but if you’ve been burned badly enough (sometimes just by growing up in a deeply dysfunctional family) it’s like living in earthquake or tornado country. Having some clothes, your passport, jewelry, emergency medications, some of your favorite go-into-a-fire-to-retrieve them mementos stashed outside what your lizard-brain fears could turn into the danger zone (at your office, with a trusted friend, in a pre-paid storage locker) gives you a “safe zone” so that every day-to-day stress doesn’t ratchet up your adrenaline level. With luck, after some time — possibly a decade or three — you run across that go-bag again and realize you don’t need it any longer. But just knowing that you’ve got an “escape” available can keep you from having to run away…

  171. 171

    @Anne Laurie:

    One thing that’s worked for some of my gun-shy friends

    wow…

    As a Hotshot firefighter I (and the rest of the crew) kept a go-bag, for obviously different reasons. As someone who went through the early stages of recovery from alcoholism/addiction in violation of the advice against entering into serious relationships – I say, again, wow.

    If a person is so damaged as to need such an escape valve it would seem a matter of simple kindness to not engage another in that madness. To the best of my knowledge my early forays into relationships only resulted in damage to me, something I consider a happy accident. It would seem repair of self would take precedence. I’m not trying to be a cold hearted bastard here, I’m seriously wondering what sort of terms would apply in such a relationship. Would the disclosure involve a statement like, “I love you (or something) but I’m prepared to disappear in the middle of the night because I figure you’re actually a cretin,” or what?

    I may well be missing something here because I just do not understand this.

  172. 172
    Anne Laurie says:

    @Chuck Butcher: I hate to play the “It’s Different for Girls” card, but… women are treated differently from men in our society. Girls, growing up, are treated differently from boys. Things may be changing, and I for one would be very glad if this were true, but there are still a lot more battered women than battered men, and a lot more co-dependent women than co-dependent men. Also, the economic parity issue has improved enormously just in our lifetimes, but the statistic still goes that for every dollar a man makes a woman will make 74 cents. SO… it has historically been, and to some degree still is, easier for a man to “escape” a relationship that goes sour than it is for a woman in the same situation. We girls grow up being told, both explicitly and implicitly, that we have less power in any relationship and therefore risk more with every new relationship we enter — or with every further commitment to a particular relationship. Ideally, in a perfect world, we would all work out the kinks in our psyches and stop listening to the twisted fairy tales running on a loop in our lizard-brains. BUT, in this less-than-perfect world, sometimes a “safety blanket”, like a relationship go-bag, gives an individual the self-confidence to take a step forward towards freeing herself from old, bad history. (The scary version, as far as I’m concerned, are the people who keep a loaded pistol or a stash of pills hidden “just in case” they decide they need a Final Exit Strategy. Compared to that, a go-bag is kiddy grade.)

  173. 173

    @Anne Laurie:
    I know this argument and I understand it and then there is this piece –

    what you propose as a sort of solution only perpetuates the condition it is supposed to alleviate. A person can either crawl around or stand the f**k up and that is a choice and it has to be made. Every person on the face of the earth can point to something that sucks about being them, and the reponse which will change that condition is not to play to it. I’ll use recovery as an example, alcohol and drugs are easily available and as long as I refused to deal with myself they got used, once I decided unremittingly that they were poison to me on all levels and to abstained from despite all other outcomes – no conditions – I was on this 21 year journey of doing something entirely different. I failed at this repeatedly until I became willing to pay the price, which was to stand up.

    I am not a woman, hell I’m not a lot of things, but I do understand repeated blows – self-induced or otherwise. Despite all the emotional conditioning, humans are not crystal glasses, broken beyond all repair by blows, they are capable of picking themselves up, dusting off, and getting on with it. Petting and stroking fears only justifies them, it does not address them.

    Sometimes a person has something in them that is broken and even mental health professionals can’t do anything, so we make allowances and take care of them, or incarcerate or kill them. These are fortunately pretty rare. What you are talking about is conditioning and that is something else. The Pavlovian dog will salivate to that bell as long as it connects it with food, once it connects it with something else that’s over. That go-bag is the bell.

    I don’t know that I’m scared of anything in particular anymore, I was scared of a lot of things (emotions) and used to deal with it. I’m not stupid or crazy, I don’t want to get hurt by say falling, so my heart will pound if I start teetering on a high place, but I also work up high. If you’re too scared of heights to function you don’t belong there otherwise you need to get up there and get aclimated, not stand on the ground and talk about it.

  174. 174
    geg6 says:

    Thanks for all the relationship wisdom, folks. Obviously, I am confused. And being a rather straightforward and often blunt person, I can see that I am going to have to do the one thing I have been too gun shy to do–initiate the “what is this relationship we have” discussion. At least then, I will know where his head is. And that will allow me to determine where mine is. As long as I’m trying to read his signals, I will be anxious. Once I know, I think I’ll be able to sort out my feelings. I really do love being with him and sometimes long for us to be together in a more meaningful way. But my fears keep me holding back. But I think Brachiator is right. He’s not my ex and is nothing at all like him, so I have to stop projecting that on him and trust a little bit. A talk will let me know whether or not I really can. Knowing his intentions for sure may just melt my cynical heart a bit. I hope.

  175. 175

    I would warn anyone that signals aren’t something to play at. Mind reading is dangerous and that is what is proposed. Speaking plainly generally works, guessing is pretty much just that.

    My wife reads my signals – what she comes up with is her own construct of something not me. As a mind reader she sucks eggs.

  176. 176
    DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal) says:

    Dumping the garbage of what others have done to you in the past onto someone you purport to care about is not a very good way to build a relationship. I know, I lived with someone like this and it was an absolute nightmare. Every problem of her past could happen again, at my hand. I felt like I was walking on eggshells and landmines, every single day.

    I tried to work things out but she would not deal with her past, she preferred to wrap herself in her fears and then cry for sympathy. When I finally had to break things off I really tried to explain to her what I saw as the problem but she didn’t want to listen to what I had to say.

    Why? Because I was leaving her, thus proving her right that she never should have trusted me enough to move in with me. It was a lose-lose situation for us and very sadly I had to end it. I let her keep the apartment and paid up the rent for two months to give her time to figure out what she was going to do.

    One last sad note: About six years later she married a guy and ended up killing him after twelve years of marriage. She is in prison for murder, a life sentence, and her defense was that he was an abusive husband and had threatened to kill her. The trial showed, without a doubt, that he was a very good man who loved and worked his ass off to care for someone who ended up killing him. Luckily they had no kids (her choice).

    It made me sick when I found out about it and I have no doubt that she did it. So when I hear about relationships where one person needs a ‘grab bag’ or an avenue of escape, I can’t help but think of the situation I went through.

    Life is change, even if you try to prevent it. If you do something, things can change, just like things can change by doing nothing. You have to learn to trust your judgment and if you make a mistake then you learn from it, don’t repeat it and don’t fear it.

    They don’t call painful life experiences The School of Hard Knocks  because the education is easy. You take your lumps and move on or you will never progress in life. Try to conquer what you fear rather than living in fear, don’t let fear rule your life. While I can understand someone needing a ‘grab bag’ for safety, I would never have anything to do with such a relationship.

    No way, no how, no thank you.

  177. 177
    DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal) says:

    My wife reads my signals – what she comes up with is her own construct of something not me. As a mind reader she sucks eggs.

    My wife gave up on that many many moons ago because of the same results…lol! I would give her the “what on earth gave you that idea?!”  and then politely fill in the blanks for her. You are absolutely right, plain, clear and concise english is needed when you are communicating with your mate.

    Mind reading just don’t work.

  178. 178
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @jk
    @Tattoosydney
    @asiangrrlMN

    May I assume that y’all have seen the biopic “Wilde,” starring Stephen Fry in the title role? He nails it, you should excuse the expression. The ever-yummy Jude Law and Jennifer Ehle are also in the cast.

    And for a bit of amusing fluff with Hugh Laurie, seek out “The Young Visiters” [sic]. Also stars Jim Broadbent, whom I adore. The Daisy Ashford book, of course, is perfection and no movie adaptation could hope to come close (for one thing, you can’t capture Daisy’s idiosyncratic spelling in spoken dialogue) — but I found it a pleasant diversion and you might enjoy it.

  179. 179
    Steeplejack says:

    May I assume that y’all have seen the biopic Wilde, starring Stephen Fry in the title role? He nails it [. . .]

    Nails it? He should have been nominated for an Oscar.

  180. 180
    geg6 says:

    @Chuck Butcher:

    Yes, I think that is my problem. I know trying to “read his signals” is a loser’s game. I am just going to confront the issue and see what’s what.

    @DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal):

    Weeeeeell, I don’t think I’m homicidal. ;-)

    And funnily enough, he just called and asked me to dinner. Said he has something important to discuss with me.

    Great minds?

  181. 181
    asiangrrlMN says:

    I will just say this about relationships: No, the person you are with at the time is not the person you were with in the past. However, if you have not worked through your own issues, you will be attracted to a similar type as you were in the past. Thus, whatever baggage you have will be reinforced because you’re unconsciously seeking those who validate whatever core values you have.

    In addition, we all have a certain type we like (though it may be harder to discern for some than for others). Therefore, it’s reasonable to assume that we will be attracted to a similar type of person for much of our lives.

    Finally, I really have come to believe that there is no one right way to do a relationship. The people in said relationship have to find what works for them–together.

    That said, good luck, geg6, and keep us posted.

    @SiubhanDuinne: Haven’t seen Wilde yet. Will do.

    arguing and Jay in Oregon, good to see both of you still posting!

  182. 182
    R-Jud says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: One of my favorite Hugh Laurie roles was in Sense and Sensibility. When his normally rude character is suddenly quite tender with Emma Thompson’s character, you can see a flicker of what their real-life romance must have been like (she’s the one who introduced him to Stephen Fry).

    Also, Emma Thompson described HL as “lugubriously sexy, like a well-hung eel.” Which makes me giggle.

  183. 183
    Brachiator says:

    @geg6:

    And funnily enough, he just called and asked me to dinner. Said he has something important to discuss with me.

    If you like, please keep us posted.

    And good luck to you. I hope you get whatever your heart desires.

    R-Jud — One of my favorite Hugh Laurie roles was in Sense and Sensibility. When his normally rude character is suddenly quite tender with Emma Thompson’s character, you can see a flicker of what their real-life romance must have been like (she’s the one who introduced him to Stephen Fry).

    Laurie is obviously a good actor and is very good on House (although I don’t care much for the show, itself). But when I see him in a comic role in some British film or BBC TV show (especially Blackadder), I am just knocked out by his expert timing and delivery.

  184. 184
    Steeplejack says:

    @Brachiator:

    [. . .] I am just knocked out by his expert timing and delivery.

    It is hard to play a dunce without being too broad, and Laurie does it perfectly in both Blackadder and Jeeves and Wooster.

  185. 185
    asiangrrlMN says:

    @R-Jud: Was Hugh Laurie in that movie? Huh, I didn’t notice. I keed, I keed. He was excellent in it for that very reason.

    @Brachiator: I agree with you. I tried to watch House because I lurve Hugh Laurie, but I just couldn’t care for it.

  186. 186
    Jay in Oregon says:

    @DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal):

    Life is change, even if you try to prevent it. If you do something, things can change, just like things can change by doing nothing. You have to learn to trust your judgment and if you make a mistake then you learn from it, don’t repeat it and don’t fear it.

    They don’t call painful life experiences The School of Hard Knocks because the education is easy. You take your lumps and move on or you will never progress in life. Try to conquer what you fear rather than living in fear, don’t let fear rule your life.

    This is what I’m grappling with right now. I can’t change what has gone before, the mistakes I made because I was afraid to try.

    I can only move forward and try to change for the better — both for her sake and for mine.

  187. 187
    Jay in Oregon says:

    The second paragraph should have been in the blockquote.

    *pout* WTB edit function plz.

  188. 188
    R-Jud says:

    @asiangrrlMN: Oh yes, and the other guy too. Speaking of whom, I saw a picture of Rickman out and about with Ian McKellan in a newspaper recently. Frankly, he isn’t looking so great. I hope it is for a role.

  189. 189
    JK says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    I haven’t seen Wilde or The Young Visiters yet, but I look forward to seeing them at some point.

  190. 190
    DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal) says:

    Intertoobs went down at this end this AM and just came back up, thus my late comment… :)

    Weeeeeell, I don’t think I’m homicidal. ;-)
     
    And funnily enough, he just called and asked me to dinner. Said he has something important to discuss with me.
     
    Great minds?

    On the first item, hooray! ;)
    On the second, excellent! :)
    On the third, sounds like you both just might be speaking clear and concise english to each other on an important subject soon! ;)

    Good luck and whatever happens, I hope it all works out for the best for both of you. :)

  191. 191
    DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal) says:

    Just saw your post Jay and I wish you both well in sorting things out. One thing to remember is that it takes two to tango, don’t dump on yourself as if it is all your fault. Like anything in life between two people, one usually leads and the other follows so ‘blame’ can be placed, so to say, in one direction but it couldn’t have happened without the others ‘consent’, silent or otherwise.

    Getting out of a ‘hole’ can be pretty tough to do without bringing the walls of the hole down on yourself. Just like it takes two to ‘dance’ into a problem, those same two have to work it out.

    You can’t do it by yourself but you can offer to lead the way out with help from her. Good luck and most importantly, take care of yourself.

  192. 192
    Jay in Oregon says:

    @DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal):

    My therapist asked me if I was wanting to change for her sake or for mine.

    I repsonded that I spent an afternoon looking through a bunch of digital photos. Trips to Yellowstone, trips to the coast, trips to visit family in Alaska and Arizona. I took her rollerskating for a date once.

    All of those pictures are at least three years old.

    And for the past year or two, there are no pictures. We didn’t do anything worth commemorating, apparently. A birthday or a walk with the dogs, maybe, but no camping and no traveling.

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