Obviously, it’s too early to say anything other than that this is a terrible tragedy:
The FBI is investigating the hanging death of a U.S. Census worker near a Kentucky cemetery. A law enforcement official says the word “fed” was scrawled on his chest.
The body of Bill Sparkman, a 51-year-old Census field worker and occasional teacher, was found Sept. 12 in the Daniel Boone National Forest in rural southeast Kentucky.
Update. A little bit more detail:
Lucindia Scurry-Johnson, assistant director of the Census Bureau’s southern office in Charlotte, N.C., said law enforcement officers have told the agency the matter is “an apparent homicide” but nothing else.
I would still caution against assuming that this was anti-government right-wing violence unless and until more details emerge.
Ella in NM
Thank you, Michelle Bachman.
different church-lady
Gosh, I sure hope Michelle Bachmann is happy now.
smiley
And so it begins. Sickening.
me
Who will rid me of this meddlesome government employee?
Phoenician in a time of Romans
It’s been pointed out that there is a lot of pot-growing and meth-brewing in the area, so it may be related to that.
Zifnab
Right. And if he’d turned up next to a couple of burning crosses, wrapped in a Confederate flag, we would only be left to speculate…
This is shocking, but not surprising in the least.
General Winfield Stuck
I know this area well and worked there as a Fed for several years. It is an area that is about as right wing anti government as you will find anywhere in the US and it stretches across the border with TN, where it is even more anti-government.
I carried a firearm 24 hours a day including sleeping with a pistol under my pillow. And so did about everyone else who lived there. Doesn’t surprise me one iota that this happened there,
smiley
Of course it could have been a personal gripe. Right?
JHF
Why is it “too early” to say anything? Are there progressive activists bent on murder to make Republicans look bad?
PaulW
I applied for the Census openings back in Nov-Dec of last year: I passed the test but they never called me up for it, even after a few months of me pestering them with phone calls (“Hey, I’m available HIRE ME PLZ”). Most census workers going door-to-door are people like me, having lost full-time jobs and looking for ANY job to tide them over, even something like this that’s only for a few months as they go zip code by zip code.
There but for the Grace of God went I… but what twisted f-ckers thought God wanted them to hang an innocent man like that?
anie
And didn’t Glen Beck do a bit of reailing about the evils of the census along with Bachmann?
JenJen
@General Winfield Stuck: I know this area well, too.
All I can think of to say is OMFG. Horrifying.
JGabriel
Assuming this is a murder, I’ll bet dollars to donuts (Krispy Kreme Glazed) that the murderer is a self-identified “Constitutionalist” jackass who thinks census-taking is unconstitutional rather than mandated.
.
beltane
It’s just a coincidence his body was found on the solemn wingnut holiday of 9/12, right? Funny that this story has gone unreported for almost two weeks.
smiley
Balloon Juice: Now with delayed comment postings.
Martin
You think he got hanged and carved up by accident? Overeager beavers? Freak tornado? Baby Jesus feeling collacky?
JK
The hottest fires in Hell aren’t hot enough for Michele Bachmann, but they’ll have to suffice. I hope that will be the final destination for this psychopath who belongs in a mental hospital and not roaming the halls of Capitol Hill.
DougJ
Why is it “too early” to say anything?
We don’t know any details yet. It could have been something totally unrelated to anti-government wingnuttery.
AkaDad
We shouldn’t jump to conclusions, because we’re gonna look pretty silly when we find out that he carved FED himself and committed suicide to make Conservatives look bad.
General Winfield Stuck
Having the word “fed” scrawled on his chest is a detail, and so is ruling it a homicide. Most people in that area are proud of their killings and they are frequent and generally would not try to frame it other than what is was. But anything is possible, I suppose.
handy
@DougJ:
Yeah, maybe the killer was a bad speller named Fred who wanted to leave a calling card a la the Zodiac killer. You people need to stop jumping to conclusions already.
kormgar
I sure as hell hope that this isn’t what it sounds like.
Because if it is, then this is likely to be only the first
Wag
…until proven otherwise.
JK
@smiley:
Are your comments taking forever to show up on BJ? I thought it was just me whose posts were loading at the speed of molasses pouring out of a jar.
smiley
@General Winfield Stuck:
I don’t recognize that country. Iraq? Mexico?
gocart mozart
Obviously he was part of ObamaHitler’s ACORN gestapo conspiracy to gather names for the coming FEMA death camps.
Martin
@AkaDad:
Yes, those uppity Acorn workers will do anything these days it seems to get their funding back.
littlesky
My heart goes out to his family. I just can’t imagine living with the knowledge that a loved one had died frightened and at the hands of a stranger.
Will
Jesus Christ. Kentucky is my home state. I’m a born-and-bred Louisvillian, thank God, where it’s a bit different than the rest of the commonwealth. Southeast KY is about as poor, white, dumb and angry as it gets in this country.
Just Some Fuckhead
@AkaDad: lolz
r€nato
Remember, Glenn Beck is just an entertainer.
smiley
@JK: Yes. It’s not just you. Part of the remake, I presume.
JK
Regardless of what the murder investigation ultimately reveals, the fact remains that Michele Bachmann is criminally and mentally incompetent and is a disgrace to Minnesota and to the House Of Representatives.
Gwangung
How ducked up is it when you HOPE it was just some poor slob stumbling on a pot ot meth operation????
Martin
@handy:
If it was self inflicted, it’d be backwards. That’d make him deaf and a bad speller.
PMWiley
Quoth Bachmann (6/26/2009):
Despicable. Yet something tells me she’ll have no trouble getting to sleep tonight.
JGabriel
@Martin:
No, I think he was murdered by a winger, which is apparent from the rest of the post. I said “assuming” to appease DougJ, Cleek, and others who are, for the present, more cautious in their assessments.
Don’t be a dick.
.
GranFalloon
John – thank you for the advice and caution regarding assuming anything . . . but I may just go ahead and assume. The area, the fervor, the incessant prodding by Bachmann and Beck and others . . . I think I have to assume.
And if I’m wrong, then I STILL blame them, and here’s why. Let’s say this was a meth-head looking for cash or something. Fine. Murderer regrets his actions, wants to cover it up. Realizes that he has an “out” – in the form of “blame it on the wingnutters. They think the Census is bad and a vehicle of the communo-facists! PERFECT ALIBI.” And the reason that the meth-head KNOWS this is because of the media blitz that the radical right has perpetrated.
If a meth-head killed an observant jew for money, and tried to cover it up by scrawling a swastika on him I would, to some degree, blame the neo-nazis for putting the hatred and filth out there for everyone to see.
In other words, this is what our country has become. Hatred so free, so prevalent, that everyone knows where to look.
GranFalloon
John – thank you for the advice and caution regarding assuming anything . . . but I may just go ahead and assume. The area, the fervor, the incessant prodding by Bachmann and Beck and others . . . I think I have to assume.
And if I’m wrong, then I STILL blame them, and here’s why. Let’s say this was a meth-head looking for cash or something. Fine. Murderer regrets his actions, wants to cover it up. Realizes that he has an “out” – in the form of “blame it on the wingnutters. They think the Census is bad and a vehicle of the communo-facists! PERFECT ALIBI.” And the reason that the meth-head KNOWS this is because of the media blitz that the radical right has perpetrated.
If a meth-head killed an observant jew for money, and tried to cover it up by scrawling a swastika on him I would, to some degree, blame the neo-nazis for putting the hatred and filth out there for everyone to see.
In other words, this is what our country has become. Hatred so free, so prevalent, that everyone knows where to look.
General Winfield Stuck
@smiley:
It’s no place you’d want to live.
HumboldtBlue
Single father, working two jobs ….
stock scramble
Off topic, but too rushed to email. You must read these links. And do a post on them. Must must must must must must must must.
National Security Scandal of the Decade.
http://www.voiceofarizona.com/Sibel_Edwards_finally_speaks-5031-2-42526.htm
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/9/23/785500/-FBI-Whistleblower-says-Neocons-Negotiated-Iraq-Invasion-with-Foreign-Agents-in-Summer-2001
Michael D.
@DougJ:
Agree, Doug. But not likely.
cincyanon
I’m holding out for more info… but… I know that area around Dan’l Boone National Forest a little bit (the little town of Nada was once considered the poorest in the country) and I’d bet John Cole knows similar areas there in WV. Rile up the deeply rural and mostly isolated mountain folk in the hollers and bad things can happen.
Brian J
I have to admit, my first thought was that it was related to anti-government, right-wing hysteria, but there doesn’t appear to be any proof of that so far. I’m curious, though, is this an area of the country where that sort of sentiment would take hold, or is that not the case? I honestly have no idea, but I’m curious one way or another.
aimai
Horrible. Horrible. Horrible. My thoughts go out to his children and the rest of his family. When do Makewi and the others show up to tell us that at least, thank god, this isn’t vulgarly racist. Just perfectly reasonable populism. So, ok then.
aimai
Gwangung
@GranFalloon: Or that Bachman stirred up feelings so high that they flashed over into violence when they normally wouldn’t have….
AkaDad
@Just Some Fuckhead:
If I didn’t have humor to channel my anger, I’d probably be a serial junk-kicker/neck-puncher.
db
Because it could have been somebody else????
Screw that… for the safety of any Census workers in the field I hope that some people are making assumptions.
And I, as somebody who uses Census data and recognizes its indispensable value, am downright pissed off by this.
JGabriel
GranFalloon:
Dude, doesn’t it make more sense, if it’s a meth-head or drug-dealer, that, in that case, carving “Fed” on the guys chest would be meant as a warning to the DEA rather than a winger diversion.
Right now, the reported evidence could point equally well to a drug-related homicide or a winger-style “Wolverines!” killing.
.
kay
@GranFalloon:
But there is an alternate explanation. He went to their house to count, they were making meth, they’re idiots sober, and completely insane if it’s meth, so they thought he was federal law enforcement.
Because that’s the most common usage of “fed”, if you’re pursuing the “census taker stumbled on criminal activity” idea.
I don’t know what happened.
General Winfield Stuck
Dear God. It was in Clay County. We used to call it Slay County and the county seat of Manchester as Gunchester. One note of possible caution is that there has always been family feuds in that county stretching back a hundred years or so. At one point, per capita, it was the countries leader in murders per county, many of which were on going family feuds revenge for things that happened in the distant past. Though the details we know pretty much eliminates that as a motive. But not completely.
jharp
General Winfield Stuck
I know this area well and worked there as a Fed for several years. It is an area that is about as right wing anti government as you will find anywhere in the US and it stretches across the border with TN, where it is even more anti-government.
Doesn’t surprise me one iota that this happened there.
From the AP article.
“Appalachia scholar Roy Silver, a New York City native now living in Harlan County, Ky., said he doesn’t sense an outpouring of anti-government sentiment in the region as has been exhibited in town hall meetings in other parts of the country.
“I don’t think distrust of government is any more or less here than anywhere else in the country,” said Silver, a sociology professor at Southeast Community College.”
And for the record I believe you, General Stuck.
Dreggas
Sorry but my gut says this was a wingnut. Remember the right wing has been all about people showing up at your door whether it be evil census takers or people coming to get your guns or obama’s civilian army.
The guy was hung with the word fed carved in his chest. I know ASSUME = making an ASS out of U and ME but it’s not a big assumption when guessing what went down here.
smiley
@General Winfield Stuck: Actually, I used to live in western North Carolina. Beautiful country. Great BBQ. I miss them both but I never felt that I had to sleep with my pistol under my pillow. But then, I’m not a federal law enforcement officer.
The Grand Panjandrum
The young Republican woman who faked an attack by “Obama supporters” is still fresh in my memory. That is enough for me to wait until all the evidence is in.
El Tiburon
This is just some blog, so we are free to assume away.
Paging Dave Niewart 1…2…3…
We all know this is going to get a lot worse. A lot worse.
One of these crazed SOBs is going to bomb another fed building or something.
It is time to start applying pressure to any media outlet, ahem, that continues to spout this eliminationist crap and continues to book Malkin, et al.
JK
@PMWiley:
Bachmann won’t have trouble sleeping tonight because she’s paralyzed from the neck up.
linda
the very first comment at rightpundits:
Turtle Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 3:44 pm
Wow. Just wow.
Here’s a better question: Did ACORN/leftists murder him in order to make it “look like” right-wingers did it in an effort to create more anti-right sentiment, and/or force martial law?
Scrutinizer
I was born and bred in the WNC hills, and anti-government sentiment, especially in the more isolated areas, has been a constant ever since I can remember, going back over half a century. Wouldn’t surprise me if this was “anti-Fed”, especially if the guy wandered into meth/pot/alcohol territory.
Doesn’t mean that the killing was ginned up due to Beck/Bachman/et al fanning the flames. Some people around here don’t need encouragement to go to extremes.
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
From what I have read, the county where this happened is a dry county. While I believe it is a murder I think it would be best to see what the police and feds find out. This guy could have stumbled on a still, pot field, meth operation or some other crime in progress. The “FED” bit could even be a distraction to lead the cops in another direction.
The history of the locale, the choice to use hanging and the “FED” bit all seem to point in one direction so I can see where some can draw their own conclusions on this. I think I will wait for more info before drawing any conclusions.
It’s sad to hear of this. Census workers put themselves in potentially dangerous situations every day and I thank them for their service.
General Winfield Stuck
@jharp:
I left the area about 20 years ago, but I doubt it has changed that much and Harlan County, though it used to be very violent, had moderated some. Clay County is the worst of the worst and I bet still is. so is Laurel county next door, where it is nearly illegal to be a democrat, and if you are you keep it quiet.
SpotWeld
Guys… keep in mind that Glenn Beck, O’Reily and all those we’ve grown to dislike with passion thrive on fear and panic.. not only the fear and panic that rises from their sickened theologies, but from the fear and panic that spins out from the seeds of discord they sew.
Do not. DO NOT allow fear and panic to spread here.
Spreading rumors, jumping to conclusions, raising rancor.. is not called for here.
Focus on the person. Bill Sparkman. He had family, he had friends.. the can be best served by remember the person here and not getting lost in a wave of discord.
Rise above this.
asiangrrlMN
My heart goes out to his family, whatever the case may be. A white light, to guide him to the other side. My deepest condolences to his family and his loved ones. May he be in peace, and may they find peace.
The Moar You Know
@General Winfield Stuck: Looks like he was from Florida.
Just Some Fuckhead
What are the chances “Fed” simply means they fed him before they killed him for reasons completely unrelated to his employment?
mantis
Census worker possibly murdered in rural Kentucky with “Fed” scrawled on his chest? I think i know which way the investigation should be leaning.
General Winfield Stuck
@The Moar You Know:
I guess that pretty much rules out possible local reasons.
celticdragon
Christ Almighty.
I hope it isn’t what it looks like.
My prayers are with the family. Good God, is this what we have come to?
Brian J
@PMWiley:
Let’s just assume that Bachmann has all the details of that situation correct–unlikely, very unlikely in fact, but bear with me. For her deranged conspiracy theory to even begin to be true, every single person and organization involved would have to want to support the idea. Does she really believe that every level of government involved across the entire country, there’s not a single person who would speak up?
There’s one group of people who use this sort of bullshit for political purposes. That’s despicable, but it’s understandable, I guess. They, thankfully, are the majority, because there’s apparently another group of people–individuals like Michelle Bachmann–who actually believe this crap. We let her vote on national security matters? Hell, we let her have a driver’s license? The mind fucking reels.
Warren Terra
@ Granfaloon, #38 and #39
There’s some merit to this point. More broadly, this is why we should suspend part of our judgement: it’s still possible that the guy’s brother-in-law or his business partner or a total stranger murdered him and then tried to muddle the waters by making it look like their atrocity was inspired by anti-government sentiment. And it’s been pointed out quite reasonably upthread that local pot growers or meth brewers may have murdered the interloper and feared anyone associated with the Federal Government in a manner almost entirely unrelated to the paranoid ravings of Glenn Beck et al.
But the rising tide of anti-government extremism is real, U.S. Representative Michelle Bachmann did portray census workers as being part of a totalitarian threat, and so even as I withhold some judgement I can totally empathize with those who leap to assuming this horror is related to that, and I agree with Granfalloon that even if it turns out that this gentleman’s death wasn’t a part of the phenomenon then we should still feel justified in resenting those monsters who created the phenomenon, those who made it possible that the murder was a part of the phenomenon.
JGabriel
El Tiburon:
Or the fly an airplane into the Empire State Building. Show those New York Liberals who’s boss.
Seriously. It would not surprise me one bit for the extreme right to start taking their cues from the bin Laden playbook.
.
geg6
Whoever did it and why, this is terrible. My heart goes out to his family and friends; he sounds like a good, hard working man. And FSM will, hopefully, keep it’s noodly appendages around all the other census workers out there, putting their lives on the line for us and our Constitution. Gawd. And I really hope they find the fucker/fuckers who did this and send them to Gitmo for the Cheney Caribbean Spa Treatment toot sweet.
replicnt6
The fact that the Census Bureau has suspended door-to-door canvassing in Clay county suggests to me that the investigation so far hasn’t yielded much evidence that this is other than what it looks like.
I suspect they’re going to be pretty tight-lipped until either they make an arrest, or we have a Ruby Ridge-style standoff trying to make an arrest.
JK
@JGabriel:
It was just a few months ago that Michael Scheuer was on Glenn Beck expressing hope for another Al Qaeda attack.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auQJVhNH99c
mcc
Oddly, this isn’t the first time this response has come up. There was that case last year with the neo-nazis who had some implausible Obama assassination plot at the DNC, but never got to Denver because a traffic stop found them with guns and meth in the car. Everyone seemed weirdly relieved when it turned out they were methheads, like that seemed to diffuse the threat somehow.
As for the Kentucky case, I think what we know so far is someone killed a Census worker for being a federal agent. I think we can afford to be patient on why, exactly, they felt inspired to do that.
Ella in NM
My husband helped support our family by being a temporary Census worker in the mid-1980’s while he transitioned out of the Navy into civilian life. He met a lot of weirdos who didn’t want to talk to him, but for the most part it was easy and pleasant way to make $10 bucks an hour.
My 20 year-old nephew worked all summer in rural Pennsylvania doing the same thing–and for ACORN, much to his family’s chagrin.
Now my own son works for the Game and Fish department helping to man roadblocks in desolate areas where they sample hunter’s game for a chronic wasting disease tracking project. He says people “don’t seem as friendly” this year as in the past.
All of them are just decent, normal people, trying to make a living, and now, obviously, their lives are at risk.
We have arrived in an age where the kooks and knuckle-draggers of the right wing have placed a bulls eye on ordinary people.
What was the subject of that report Napolitano had to apologize for this year…….
Roger Moore
@PMWiley:
OTOH, that data was also used to apportion Congressional districts. So I’d strongly encourage anyone who believes Michelle Bachmann to refuse to give the Census any information whatsoever. They should just drop their census form in the shredder. If a census worker shows up at their house, they should pretend that their house is abandoned. If we can get enough wingnuts to go along, it will help the sane people in future elections.
skippy
w/the word “fed” scrawled on the hanged man’s chest, what other conclusion can we reach? you think the killer wanted us to know his victim just finished a nice big lunch?
SiubhanDuinne
I am just sickened. Sad and enraged and frightened for us. Don’t know what else to say beyond what everyone else (pretty much) has said. White light to him and those who loved him.
littlesky
Oh dear god, I can’t stop crying.
cleek
@JGabriel:
appease me? sheesh.
the first link given here explicitly said the police weren’t saying either way. for all we knew then (literally) it could’ve been a suicide. and just think of all the times we mock wingnuts for prematurely jumping to the partisan conclusion.
now we know more. but we still don’t know everything.
Demo Woman
Please correct me if I’m wrong but they found Mr. Sparkman’s truck with his computer in it. Doesn’t it seem that they would smash the computer if they were anti-government? There are some lose ends so I’m withholding judgment. But since I’ve been consistently wrong since forever, every one else is probably right.
cleek
@cleek:
ok… that was too pointed. no antagonism intended. i blame the slow BJ server.
cheers
bago
Glenn Beck kills frogs.
“I swear to god I thought they would jump right out!”
This is not a WKRP riff.
Will
I remember the Census workers that came to my door 9 years ago. They were two of the nicest people I’ve ever met. We had a nice, long friendly chat, in addition to the business. I offered them some wine, but being pros, they politely refused.
The kind of intimidation this act is intending to bulldoze our civic institutions with is beyond unacceptable. This person needs to manhunted into oblivion.
wasabi gasp
This is clearly an attempt at destroying the image of the virtuous Real Americans in Small Town, U.S.A. by gay Muslim terrorist Acorn pimps.
JGabriel
cleek:
Perhaps “acknowledge” would have been a better word choice. I merely meant that I didn’t want to get into an argument over whether Sparkman was murdered by wingers or someone else – even though I thought you guys were wrong – because the evidence reported so far is equivocal enought that you might be right.
.
Betsy
This is horrific. The first thing that sprang to mind when I heard that he was hanged was our nation’s long history of lynching. Horrible.
FWIW, I agree with Doug about not jumping to conclusions. I also agree with everyone here about what the *likely* explanation is, but I know that I’ve been wrong about that in the past.
jenniebee
@bago: Jesus Christ that was funny.
HumboldtBlue
My gut tells me this poor man wandered into a pot grow. They are prevelant on Federal lands and of course, in these parts they are ubiquitous. You are warned that if you want to hike in our local Federal forests to do so armed and to avoid any area that appears to be cultivated, there stands a good chance it’s a marijuana grow.
JGabriel
mcc:
Because it does?
Granted, a couple of violent meth-heads are certainly as capable, psychologically, of murder as anyone else. However, they are a lot more likely to screw up and get caught – due to overconfidence and stupidity brought on by the drug’s effects, and increased risks of antagonizing law enforcement through meth-seeking or meth-induced behavior.
Which they were.
.
General Winfield Stuck
@HumboldtBlue:
They are in eastern Ky. as well. So it’s possible.
Comrade Darkness
I give it a few more days. Losers like this tend to brag. They can’t help themselves. This is in the press because the cops want those who heard them brag to come forward.
Whatever the motive for this. Teh crazy-eyed bachmanns of the world need to be called out. Loudly. By their own lunatic-coddling party. Those supposedly righteous superheroes battling the evil befalling society need to step up to the plate and pretend their beliefs aren’t just hot air for Sunday.
JGabriel
bago:
That is high-larious. But the title should be: Glenn Beck proves the right-wing is boiling itself alive.
.
Stan
@jharp: Kentucky native here. Yankee can’t hear the dog whistles. I don’t care how much you think you know or how much respect you have for chainsaw art and Bill Monroe. Some things cannot be taught by conventional means.
MoeLarryAndJesus
There’s one strong piece of evidence suggesting that wingnuts had nothing to do with this crime.
“Fed” was apparently spelled correctly.
Sure, maybe it was a wingnut who just guessed right, but I have my doubts.
wasabi gasp
@HumboldtBlue: How does that square with hanging the guy? Seems like an attention getter, which jeopardizes the secrecy desired by a pot grower.
SiubhanDuinne
Testing my new BlackBerry beffore posting from it.
General Winfield Stuck
@wasabi gasp:
The hanging part is odd. These are general;y people of the gun, and it is unlikely that it has to do with pot. But the same anti government kinds are often the same ones growing pot in this region. They used to find murder victims bobbing around in abandon strip mines pits filled with water, with their heads and hands missing to thwart Identification,. but now we have DNA making that obsolete. Maybe hanging is the new mode of murder for the Hillbilly Mafia that operates there now.
SiubhanDuinne
“beffore”? Damn, the new BlackBerry doesn’t know how to spell.
Back to topic:I promise not to jump to any conclusions, but let me just assume for one moment that this is exactly what it appears to be, a crime of violence against someone based on his employer or current task.
My question: does anybody know whether “hate crimes” legislation covers something like this? Is one’s employer equivalent to race, sexual orientation, religion, etc.? Genuinely curious whether such a case could be made by prosecutors when this comes to trial (as it will).
GranFalloon
@wasabigasp –
I have to agree with you. If a bunch od methheads thought he was DEA they would have probably shot him and hid the body. I’m no expert but typical methheads don’t seem to me the type to go to such effort – and to draw attention to the location of a drug enterprise.
This smacks of an insane hope by the killer that he was telling the world he was doing the right thing – at worst, a call to arms for likeminded people. Given the state of things now, it’s probably not unreasonable for him to think that he’d receive sympathy if not outright admiration.
Ash
If this turns out to be exactly what it looks like it is, we all know that it was actually done by some communist, pot-smoking hippie who just wanted to make Real Murikans look bad, just like backwards B girl was really a plant by the DNC.
The Moar You Know
@Stan: California guy here. I have the advantage of having been the last member of my family born in the South, a place that both sides of my family resided in for over 200 years, but I can’t claim to have lived there past the age of two.
But the dogwhistles are blowing my eardrums out. Yankee boy there has written possibly the most stone-cold ignorant thing I’ve ever read.
Litlebritdifrnt
Did everyone on this board suddenly become politically correct and all cause I am not understanding the “we shall just have to see” theme that is going on here. You guys (me included) have been saying this for what six months, ever since Bachman spouted her vile “the census workers will put you in internment camps” garbage. Everyone on this board predicted this shit and now all of a sudden you are clutching your fucking pearls and collapsing on your couches? Christ on a cracker even the snark monsters over at Wonkette predicted this, everyone in the liberal blogosphere predicted this and now everyone is all of a sudden “we shall have to wait and see” WTF?
ominira
@Litlebritdifrnt: No one wants it to be true, even if they predicted it. Sigh.
General Winfield Stuck
Interesting there’s not a peep about this on Memerandum.
Martin
No, lynching is a deliberately public act. It’s a public message to the next guy who wants to come by. Always has been.
Lynchers aren’t worried about getting caught. They’re in the cocoon – they think everyone is on their side – they surround us, remember? Hell, there are even members of Congress warning that census workers are just the first step to enslavement. Who would prosecute you for self-defense against tyranny?
Remember the asshole from Tennessee who shot up TVUUC? He was just protecting himself from tyranny too.
Dreggas
@General Winfield Stuck: of course there isn’t, sometimes you just need to keep on walking…
Litlebritdifrnt
@ominira:
Shit I don’t want it to be true, but it is obvious that it is. As I said we all predicted this, Bachman’s chickens are coming home to roost and she is going to be totally responsible for the eggs. I say let her OWN it, let her have the blood of this man on her hands. I want to see her squirm out of this on the house floor, I want a democrat with a spine to tell the story of this man and then point a finger at Bachman and say “you, you caused this, the blood of this man is on your hands, YOU CAUSED THIS” paging a democrat with a spine, a democrat with a spine please pick up the white courtesy phone.
Warren Terra
@LittleBritDiffrnt, #105
We’re being cautious because there’s a big difference between saying that the rhetoric of Beck, Bachmann, et al is calculated to cause atrocities, which is a sentiment I agree with and which I’d be readily be prepared to attempt to justify in an adversarial setting, and saying that this particular atrocity is an example of anti-government violence and proves our point. Because there’s still a chance that it will turn out not to be. This poor man won’t be any less dead, and his family and friends any less devastated, if we wait a few days to be certain instead of speculating about their tragedy.
The one thing we want to avoid is being seen to hitch our reasonable and indeed provable beliefs to any individual example that we don’t know to be equally reliable. The classic example was the Dan Rather Bush National Guard Memos, which were used by the wingers, with the able assistance of the mainstream media, to justify ignoring people who wanted to assert that Bush had been AWOL during Vietnam. And yet according to undisputed public documents Bush was AWOL, for about a year, from a war he allegedly supported and for which he was even featured in a print advertisement! And he never meaningfully returned to duty or fulfilled his obligations. But because the Bush=AWOL cause had somehow become identified with the memos, once the memos and Dan Rather were discredited then the entire area of inquiry was treated as having been similarly incorrect.
Warren Terra
@General Winfield Stuck, #107
It’s also not on the front page of The New York Times online, so far as I can see, and I don’t see it on their National page (which does, oddly, include a prominent link to the story “Signs of Water Are Found on the Moon”, which although fascinating isn’t really a National story, unless Neil Armstrong’s flag had a lot more significance than I knew).
The only way I could find it at the Times was to search for “Sparkman”, which returned the AP story; searching for “census” didn’t find it.
General Winfield Stuck
@Martin:
The reason I said that is because I grew up in the general region and worked specifically where this occurred. That said, you are right about lynching being a public act in general, but I’d never heard of a case of it in this region. Largely, most likely because no blacks, or very very few live in eastern kentucky, so what happened in the Jim Crow south didn’t happen in E, Kentucky.
There is little doubt in my mind this was a political act to send a message, but it could also involve pot growing that is rampant in the area, though not likely.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Warren Terra:
They weren’t gonna cover it anyway.
mcc
No, not in the hate crimes statutes. There are, however, a raft of separate federal laws specifically related to interfering with or committing violence against an agent of the federal government. From the San Francisco Chronicle article on this subject:
Xenos
@mcc: Yes – the hate crimes statute requires that the crime be done in order to attack the civil rights of a community. A bad fit for the fact pattern here.
As the FBI pursues this look for that agency finding itself in the crosshairs of resistance and rebellion, something that has not happened since Ruby Ridge, Waco, and Oklahoma City. Lets hope we have smarter people running it than in the latter days of Bush I.
Martin
I’d say almost impossible. They knew the guy worked for the federal government. Who the hell would want the FBI turning over every rock in the area? Certainly not someone growing pot out there.
Maybe if they tried to hide the body I could accept that, but someone is giving a big ‘fuck-you’ to the feds here. I bet every pot grower in the area is pissed as all get-out right now.
wasabi gasp
If I was a grower in that area, I’d probably want to catch the deranged bastard myself and send him gift-wrapped to the police station.
drillfork
On the bright side, we solved the gun problem:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090923/ap_on_re_us/us_ammo_shortage
Seems so many people are arming themselves out of fear Obama will confiscate their weapons that there aren’t enough bullets for everyone.
Nope. No domestic terrorism threat here…
Mnemosyne
@mcc:
The San Francisco Chronicle knows that very well since they did major coverage when Stuart Alexander murdered three FDA inspectors in San Leandro. He was sentenced to death but ultimately died in his cell.
Murdering a federal employee in the course of their job is, IIRC, pretty much an automatic death penalty.
Gwangung
@Mnemosyne: GOOD.
demimondian
@Litlebritdifrnt: Actually, it isn’t obvious what happened.
First, we still don’t know if this was a homicide or a suicide. Yes, we have a report that the police are currently treating it as a homicide, but there are plenty of cases where they’ve changed their minds. The fact that this poor guy had non-Hodgkins lymphoma — often a disease with a poor prognosis — might indicate the possibility of severe depression, which can be fatal in ways like this. Really, I want to wait and see.
Second, even if it’s a homicide, we don’t know if the final result was staged as a misdirection or was staged as a threat. Either one is possible — remember that Eric Rudolph was harbored in North Carolina, presumably near Murphy, which is in the Appalachian portion of the state, and is not too different from Eastern Kentucky culturally or historically. Again, it’s plausible, but hardly a given.
General Winfield Stuck
@Martin:
Look, the difference between unlikely and almost impossible is unknown right now. It just is. It could be both drug related and a political message. The folks that did this are almost certainly not mental giants, and don’t always follow what we think is a proper modus operandi for committing crimes. It is a world unto itself there, but it looks to god like an anti government crime and I think it is, but I’m not a hundred percent sure and neither are you.
Mnemosyne
@demimondian:
To me, that’s a point in favor of the cops keeping it as quiet as possible (presumably while informing the Census Bureau that their workers should take extra precautions) while they investigate. If this does turn out to be a political murder, the people who do that tend to thrive on notoriety. Rudolph fucking loved being an underground hero. Denying this unknown asshole his ego boost is all to the good and could get him apprehended faster since he’ll start trying to make himself known so the adulation can start.
Just Some Fuckhead
@drillfork: Thanks for the link.
demimondian
@Mnemosyne: I hadn’t thought of that, but you’re right.
jetan
Very fair minded bunch here. Could be a meth cook, sure, though the hanging doesn’t really fit the profile.
BUT, yeesh, is there anyone here who hasn’t been expecting something like this to happen? You guys should check out the threads on this over at Free Republic…..they aren’t losing any sleep, let’s put it like that.
Nellcote
@General Winfield Stuck:
They’re trying to figure out how to blame it on Pelosi.
slag
We know that this situation may not be as it appears. Regardless, @PMWiley is right. The things Bachmann, Beck, et al say have logical conclusions, and this kind of thing is one of them. It’s pretty straightforward. So, at what point do they stop themselves from giving voice to the paranoid fantasies of their supporters? When do they start taking some responsibility for the hostility they willfully engender? Does stuff like this–inconclusive though it may be–make them stop and think? Even for a second? I, for one, have serious doubts. And that’s the real problem.
General Winfield Stuck
@Nellcote:
No doubt. I was just over reading Hannity’s blog for the first time btw, and likely last. The overwhelming theme “why would people think it was right wingers” . the man was actually found on 9-12, or tea bagger day, though his body was decomposed, so he was murdered before that, I’m guessing we are just now hearing of it because authorities know it will become a giant story if confirmed for what it looks like and they want to be sure. And that is why the MSM is holding back also, to get more info before starting the mother of all shitstorms and end up being wrong.
demimondian
@jetan: Of course I expected this to happen. I was one of the first people to argue that the threat the far right posed wasn’t just to the President, but to all of us. I still want to be wrong.
General Winfield Stuck
Maddow did a segment on this today.
Mike G
I was just over reading Hannity’s blog for the first time btw, and likely last. The overwhelming theme “why would people think it was right wingers” .
They’re trying to work out how to blame it on ACORN.
Dream On
Oh yes, Clay County. I’ve been there. Census worker stumbled onto drug dealers – I guarantee it.
Dream On
Ever been to Trinity County California – in between Weaverville and Denny? Clay County is like that.
It’s drugs.
Nancy Irving
@JGabriel:
Yeah, it’s ironic that people who claim to be “constitutionalists” are against the census, which is EXPLICITLY enumerated in the Constitution as a function of the federal government
Lupin
Clinging to the last shreds of humanity, and considering the area, at least he wasn’t eaten.
HeartlandLiberal
Right. I am sure it was just a coincidence he was wearing that sign. Of course the good white citizens of this nation engaged in lynching for nearly a century, but no one could ever be found to admit there was racism behind it. Also, note the statistics. How often do you hear people discuss the fact that we used to lynch about two Blacks a week, on average?
cincyanon
Not to burst any bubbles but pot growers or meth cookers wouldn’t advertise what they’d done. They’d hide the body and lose the truck because they don’t want people coming around. A hanging is a public act guaranteed to bring an investigation and close down their business. If they are protecting their business they wouldn’t bring attention to their place of business.
Bob (Not B.o.B.)
Why did the north not let the south succeed? Seems like we would be better off without the anti-American, welfare, red States.
Bootlegger
That’s about an hour from my house and people down there refer to my neck of the wood as the People’s Republic of Berea. But I also know some good people down there and have had some of the law enforcement in my classes. I guarantee those folks are PISSED that this happened in their neighborhood and they’ll tree the redneck’s that did this (yes, probably with dogs).
Tom65
@cincyanon: Exactly. This wasn’t the work of drug dealers. This was intended to send a message.
General Winfield Stuck
@Bootlegger:
LOL
I’ve spent a lot of time in Berea. Beautiful little town, but being an artsy fartsy haven the rednecks do see it as a kind of little Moscow.
Cyrus
Are you back to your spoofing ways again? The body was found on 9/12. It’s a hanged Census worker with “fed” written on him. Of course we don’t know much yet, and it might be to protect a drug dealer as some have theorized and the “fed” might be a deliberate red herring, and of course even once a suspect or suspects are identified they might not be convicted for fair reasons.
But given what has been reported, by far the simplest, most likely explanation is that the murderer was a right-wing extremist. A terrorist by any meaningful definition of the term, although that term is overused. If more evidence makes it look like this was a meth dealer, then I will have been wrong, but I won’t feel particularly guilty or anything for jumping to this conclusion.
lou
In that part of the country, they would have no compunction. Remember these are the descendants of people who used to have gun battles with federal revenue agents over moonshine. Anti-government feelings go to back to Andrew Jackson and George Washington.
I spent a summer in Williamsburg and my great-grandparents had a home in the mountains around Pikeville. You couldn’t pay me enough to be a Census worker in that region.
But if it does turn out to be right-wing murder and mayhem Michelle Bachmann should resign from Congress in disgrace.
debbie
I don’t believe that this is drug-related either. Most “producers” would hide their enterprise deep, deep in the woods far away from other people in order to avoid detection. What would a Census worker be doing in such a place?
The Other Steve
This was clearly the work of anti-Government Liberals.
kay
@debbie:
It doesn’t feel right to me, as politically motivated. He’s not a stranger there. He knows the area well enough to state in an interview that he hoped to teach school there. He does teach school there, and he works for the Boy Scouts. His local persona is not that of “stranger from the federal government”. He’s been working there since 2003.
The word “fed” doesn’t even sound right. It’s used as a derogatory term usually in conjunction with law enforcement. There are a lot of three letter words, and one written on the chest may not be clear.
I’d wait and see what information follows. I don’t think there’s near enough here.
waynet
I used to live around this area as well – and my initial reaction was that he stumbled onto some Pot/ or Meth operation. The meth problem out there is insane – I knew of an elderly neighbor who was murdered by 3 teenage meth heads for a couple of hundred dollars. I could easily see that type doing something like this – and I have never heard of any census worker being killed – scared off, but not killed.
I really hope that’s what happened because the alternative – that it’s open season on census workers – is just too unbearable to accept. If so, Bachmann and Beck have blood on their hands.
waynet
I used to live around this area as well – and my initial reaction was that he stumbled onto some Pot/ or Meth operation. The meth problem out there is insane – I knew of an elderly neighbor who was murdered by 3 teenage meth heads for a couple hundred dollars. I could easily see that type doing something like this – and I have never heard of any census worker being killed – scared off, but not killed.
I really hope that’s what happened because the alternative – that it’s open season on census workers – is just too unbearable to accept. If so, Bachmann and Beck have blood on their hands.
Bootlegger
@General Winfield Stuck: The VERY liberal arts college contributes to the image as well. Ironically it keeps voting down beer and wine sales, even at restaurants. The churches get enough progressives who like the charm of the place to vote with them. Last time it was only 78 votes.