Politifact is on the job:
In the competitive world of Washington protests, crowd size is often a matter of dispute. Organizers usually boast of huge crowds, while police and the news media offer much smaller estimates.
So supporters of Saturday’s “tea party” protests against President Barack Obama were quick to highlight their big turnout. To bolster countless claims on blogs and Facebook, many posted a photograph that showed a gargantuan crowd sprawling from Capitol Hill down the National Mall to the Washington Monument.
But it turns out the photo is more than 10 years old, apparently taken during a 1997 Promise Keepers rally.
On Saturday, estimates about the crowd spread quickly through the conservative blogosphere. Many writers, including author Michelle Malkin, pegged the number of people between 1 million and 2 million. Those reports were largely based on information from people in the crowd.
***Pete Piringer, public affairs officer for the D.C. Fire and Emergency Department, said the local government no longer provides official crowd estimates because they can become politicized. But the day of the rally, Piringer unofficially told one reporter that he thought between 60,000 and 75,000 people had shown up.
I’m sure this will be filed away in wingnut lore forever, along with the WMD in Iraq, that Terri Schiavo said “I want to live,” and that Obama is actually Kenyan.
General Winfield Stuck
Politifact
dmsilev
I like the way Nate Silver put it:
-dms
dmsilev
Curse you, moderation keyword filter!
A request, for the next time John decides to redesign the site. Given the general potty-mouth tendencies of the commentariat here, can the filter be backed off just a tad? At the very least, can the economic system whose name contains the name of a popular “enhancement” drug be allowed to go through?
-dms
Punchy
Obama isn’t Kenyian; he’s African. Stupid libtard.
General Winfield Stuck
Volume 937 — Freeper Fractured Fairy Tales.
MattF
DC emergency services are the world’s experts at handling crowds, so Piringer’s estimate is probably accurate. Anything over a million would have been noticeable– e.g., it’s been pointed out that nearly 2 million showed up for Obama’s inauguration, and that basically shut down DC south of M St. for a full day. Less than 100,000 is just a blip in the daily routine, on the order of a crowd at RFK stadium.
Leelee for Obama
There will never be a back-off on their assertions-like we all read in Frank Shaefer’s article, rules and truth are immaterial. Their numbers are legion in their mind’s eye, so that photo is an accurate representation of the people with them in spirit. And math is difficult. And photography is not a home-school subject. Also.
Leelee for Obama
@Leelee for Obama: Again with the strike-out? What’d I do?
Tokyokie
Might Leelee has struck out.
Tokyokie
Mighty Leelee has struck out.
Brick Oven Bill
Only six months ago, Glenn Beck asked concerned Americans to meet with each other so they did not feel alone. I walked around the restaurant where people were to gather and grabbed a beer at the bar, to see if anyone would show up. Then they did and we talked. Now we are friends and correspond. There are lots of us. Four or more joined the Rochester 912 Group yesterday alone. Now there are 765 of us just around DougJ!
You don’t mess with Glenn Beck. This guy came out of nowhere and started a movement six months ago. On Saturday, they filled the national mall.
ACORN’s Levinson came on his show, called Beck ‘scared of black people’, and disrespected his female staffer. The Census just fired ACORN. Bills are on now the floor of the Senate to cut their funding.
Van Jones went after his advertisers, and lost his job in disgrace. Beck is now about to overtake O’Reilly, and Beck’s show is not yet in prime time.
He is now offering lenient sentences for politicians should they come clean, asking for 56 to come forward and confess, the number 56 being in the Spirit of the Founding. He will succeed in this as well.
The video he produced for the last segment of yesterday’s show, comparing the Empire State Building to the reconstruction of the World Trade Center, and the nature of American DNA, has increased the probability of Glenn Beck either being elected or installed as the next American President to 78%.
Do not be scared of Glenn Beck, be proud of him. Maybe someday you can join us, and the world will be as one.
Comrade Mary
Double dash probably did it, Leelee.
Morbo
-test-
Morbo
If you have hyphens on either side of a phrase, -they act as strike tags-, just as *asterisks act as B tags*, /slashes as I tags/, grumble grumble.
The Grand Panjandrum
CNN screws up and erroneously reports shots fired on the Potomac and that’s more proof that the establishment media has a liberal bias. Malkin, et al, erroneously report a lie from a right wing shill using the establishment media as a crutch and that’s further proof that the media is filled with a bunch of frothing commie sympathizers. Makes perfect sense when Beck, Hannity and Rush are your Holy Trinity.
@Leelee for Obama: C’mon admit, you’re trying to break Reggie Jackson’s record.
AkaDad
And God bless Amercia.
The Grand Panjandrum
Number nine … number nine … *number nine
Brian J
You’re probably right. I’ve never been there, but from what I understand, D.C. isn’t that big, and that many people in a relatively small city would be noticeable, if for no other reason than it would lower the average I.Q. of the greater Washington by a bunch of points, causing the area to wonder, “Gee, exactly how do I put on these pants?”
Leelee for Obama
Thanks for the advice,everybody, and teh funny! I can use a chuckle this AM.
Brick Oven Ann
I am Tired of this EZEKEIL 23:20 “Presedent” AMERICA needs a MAN’S MAN who urinates Proudely standing up for his Country and GLEN BECK is that MAN. Listen to your DNA AMERICA!
Ash Can
I can’t help thinking that the pathological inability to accept or acknowledge factual evidence goes hand-in-hand with the pathological lack of empathy discussed in DougJ’s thread last night. I’d feel sorry for these people if they weren’t doing so much damage to this country.
me
I’m sure U.S. Attorneys will honor Beck’s pardons.
He is a total dipshit.
Rick Massimo
Still the best analogy I’ve ever heard on the subject (don’t remember where it’s from):
In World War II, American soldiers would dress the bodies of dead German troops in American uniforms, stuff fake battle orders in the pockets and leave them for the Germans to find. Was that lying? Sure. But was it wrong? Of course not. And that’s really how the wingnuts see themselves. They’re at war, so the normal rules do not apply. And when they win, and the country is a paradise again just like in the 1952 of their imaginations, we’ll thank them for lying to us. Hell, we’ll apologize for being so thick that they had to lie to us.
Brick Oven Bill
In other news, only 28% of Chinese women have experienced orgasm.
I doubt that this 912er has a similar problem. This is because those with the capacity to not fear Glenn Beck do not typically sit with their thighs crossed, largely because of Geometry.
me
Scared of Beck, no. Scared of his sheep, not yet. I’ll wait until they actually do something other then make misspelled signs.
flukebucket
I heard a South Carolina representative today on the radio repeat the 1.5 million person lie again this morning.
She said, “there were 1.5 million people there but you probably didn’t hear about it in the media”
As if 1.5 million people could show up in D.C. and unless you were there you would have never known it.
How in the world would you keep a crowd of 1.5 million a secret?
SenyorDave
I live about 30 miles from DC. I was there for the inauguration concert, when they had about 400,000 people or so, and it is incredibly noticeable when that many extra people are in DC, because DC is not particularly large, especially the mall/monument area.
Why would anyone be shocked that Malkin, et. al. was caught passing on lies that could have been fact-checked in a few minutes?
Napoleon
@Rick Massimo:
You are exactly right.
PTirebiter
Good Morning Bob,
Glad to hear about your new pals, that’s nice.
I have a question.
“He is now offering lenient sentences for politicians should they come clean, asking for 56 to come forward and confess…”
Confess to what?
Sounds more like a fund-raising strategy for televangelists to me.
Brick Oven Bill
I once ran into a fan of Glenn Beck’s, when I was out walking my pet snail in front of my house. I recognized him as a fan of Glenn’s because he looked like he’d fought in Nam, and I could see from his eyes that he’d obtained the correct distrust of the gooks. You see this is Glenn’s base: people who are moderately insane. They are my brothers.
Brick Oven Boob
I once ran into a fan of Glenn Beck’s, when I was out walking my pet snail in front of my house. I recognized him as a fan of Glenn’s because he looked like he’d fought in Nam, and I could see from his eyes that he’d obtained the correct distrust of the gooks. You see this is Glenn’s base: people who are moderately insane. They are my brothers.
Comrade Jake
That line from Nate Silver is priceless.
Comrade Darkness
@Brick Oven Bill: Wait, wait, wait, wait. You are somewhere near Rochester?
Okay, NOW I am scared.
SenyorDave
Do not be scared of Glenn Beck, be proud of him. Maybe someday you can join us, and the world will be as one.
BOB,
Before you annoint Beck, maybe you should read about Father Coughlin. He was a 1930’s radio commentator whose audience dwarfed Beck’s (and Limbaugh’s). Wildly popular (40 million listeners when the population of the US was less than half of today), he eventually started spouting off crazy conspiracy theories, and from there descended into anti-semitic ravings.
Just change a few particulars and you have Beck.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Coughlin
Xenos
Without Rupert Murdoch feeling like losing money in order to push an alternate reality Glenn Beck would be nobody. Now he has lost more than half of his advertisers it is even more clear – Fox News is as legit as any Moonie enterprise.
someguy
I need to apologize to the group around here.
I referred to this event previously as the Ten Thousand Man March previously, and then the Three Thousand Man March when it was clear that the original estimates of a hundred kazillion gajillion fat white racist slobs were originally overstated. (The part about the numbers, not about their fatness, whiteness, racism, or slobbishness).
It’s clear now that I vastly overstated the numbers in attendance. It was clearly a Several Hundred Man March. Or if you really want to hold me to truth-in-labelling standards, Several Hundred Racist White Fat Men and Women March. Who Were Very Sweaty. And Overwrought and Stupid.
I apologize for not getting it right the first time. Or the second. Or third. Or fifth.
Comrade Jake
Heh. The full Silver piece is really great. Check out the paragraph proceeding the one above:
Do the math, and basically Nate’s suggesting that Kibbe’s dick is an inch and a half.
me
@Brick Oven Bill: Wow, they got two dozen people to rally in Madison on the day of the Badgers game. I wonder if most of them had tickets.
Bill In OH
@flukebucket: I think it’s also pretty humorous that they’re playing the “liberal media didn’t report it” card. That was the lead story on our (Cleveland area) local news! It was hardly a big hush-hush secret.
It’s like they get locked into a narrative and nothing can penetrate the bubble.
PTirebiter
This morning NPR is using “tens of thousands” to describe the crowd. Juan Williams is once again managing to parrot GOP talking points in his never ending struggle “to be fair.”
serge
Wait a minute…my dick is, 53 inches long (not really). As the joke goes, I have a tattoo on it that says “Welcome to Jamaica, Mon, have a nice day.”
Leelee for Obama
@Bill In OH: Read Frank Shaefer’s article at HuffPO and all is clear. Alternate realities and such are the norm, and completely justified.
PTirebiter
Xenos,
Rupert’s agenda is money so don’t be fooled. Beck is functioning as a loss leader, whatever he’s losing in advertising dollars, he’s more than making up for in saved promotional dollars. If that formula changes, Beck will be gone.
TheFountainHead
I just really want to know, how did they manage to stock enough Mountain Dew and Cheetos in time?
someguy
OT, but with Bush’s War On Brown People In Afghanistan at an in popularity, could we just declare
defeatvictory, blame it on Bush, and get the hell out of there? How many more troops have to get killed for no apparent reason before we come to our senses?Crashman06
@Brick Oven Bill:
Watch out, DougJ. They surround you!
The Grand Panjandrum
Rik Hertzberg takes his shots at the wing nut welfare state run by its corporate media masters.
I don’t see any flaw in that logic. Do you?
Comrade Jake
OT, but check out CNN.com’s front page right now. Here’s one of the headlines they’re running this AM:
Piles of stupid.
A Ghost To Most
@Brick Oven Bill:
Fuck You, Bill, for using the words of John Lennon to promote your corrupt racist ideology.
It’s assholes like you who have sworn this WNY boy from ever visiting there again.
GregB
Obama is a Kenyesian!
-G
Da Bomb
@Comrade Jake: No not all, it isn’t racist. Neither are the pictures of Hitler, or the picture of the old cottonball holding a sign refering to President Obama as a lying African in the White House.
None of these incidents are rascist. Not a single one.
You didn’t see anything, just walk away slowly…
Cat Lady
As someone pointed out earlier, pulling this fantasy number out of their asses, smelling it, finding it quite pleasant, then sticking it back in may be for Charles Johnson at LGF what Schiavo was for John Cole. The purging on the right continues in full force, and no pictures or math or objective reality will slow the momentum towards wingularity.
J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford
Retail sales up 2.7% for August, about 1% if you remove the Cash for Clunkers, which is still about twice it was in July.
GregB
BOB, we have a term for folks like you.
Beck Sniffers.
-G
Brick Oven Bill
This is dedicated to you A Ghost to Most:
You say you’ll change the Constitution
Well, you know
We all want to change your head
But if you go carrying pictures of chairman Mao
You ain’t going to make it with anyone anyhow
Don’t you know it’s gonna be all right.
Na na na na nahh na.
Bill E Pilgrim
Okay, any notions that BOB was a real Wingnut and not John, or his cat, or some other cloaked spoofter avenger in an alter ego just died with reading that.
Da Bomb
And also apparently there was another event going on that caused some confusion with the numbers.
The Black Family Reunion.
http://politics.theatlantic.com/2009/09/the_other_912_rally.php
kay
@Comrade Jake:
I think the person who said Clinton insanity + racists = Obama insanity got it exactly right.
I thought we were missing sexism until I saw the Pelosi signs, so we’re covered there. I think we can nominate a black woman next time with no measurable increase in insanity. It’s in there.
Bill E Pilgrim
@GregB: Brilliant.
John Maynard Matunde Keynes, ah yes I remember studying him in school.
A Ghost To Most
@Brick Oven Bill:
Another fucked up Western NY redneck calling me out. Get in line, douchebag.
Enjoy your life in Buttholeville, Butt Hole Bill.
As for me, I ain’t never goin back to Buttholeville!
PanAmerican
Generally, crowd “estimates” are complete bullshit.
1.5 million is 1 in every 200 Americans.
Traffic would have been bumper to bumper on the interstates, Amtrak and the Metro would have been operating at crush loads, hotels throughout the region sold out, the airports packed later in the day with dingbats going home….
Zach
If there were hundreds of thousands of people there, someone on the elevated stage in front of them would’ve said, “My, this is remarkable! I do believe I’ll take a picture with one of these new fangled digital cameras!” And that would be that, and it would be easy to prove. For some reason the folks at FreedomWorks didn’t remember to bring a camera along.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@kay:
The other variable you need to add to this equation is the stupidity and amateurishness of it all. The people who stalked Clinton were pros. They were good at it.
Beck and his teabagging minions on the other hand seem determined to prove the adage that history repeats itself, first as tragedy, then as farce. They are the Klueless Klutz Klan, and we have the pictures to prove it. Honestly, what else can you say about a White Power rally that makes onlookers laugh and demonstrates that the protesters are so stupid that they couldn’t set a cross on fire if you gave them a box of matches and a can of gasoline and wrote the instructions on the bottom of the gas can?
Andrew W.
Thought this would amuse:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxpayer_March_on_Washington
Look at the history and the talk page. The plausible 75,000 estimate is so far holding strong in the article’s lead, but the li’l Teabaggers are grinding the logical gears, pulling out all the weasel stops — doing practically everything they can think of to salvage a “hundreds of thousands” estimate.
bago
BOB: Do you even know HOW many super mutants I had to headshot to get even halfway down the national mall yesterday? It must have been 50 at least.
Corner Stone
@flukebucket:
Have them show up for a progressive/liberal rally.
SATSimpleQ
gypsy howell
Honestly, I just don’t care how many teabaggers showed up in Washington. Who gives a rats ass if it was 50,000 or 5 million. I know there are millions of these people out there. Hell, 47 million of them voted for Sarah Palin.
And another thing I don’t care about – that some southern douchebag called the president a liar. So fuckin’ what? Oooooh, they might CENSURE him! Again I ask, so fuckin’ what? That changes what, exactly?
Meanwhile, we’re going to get a health care bill that is the worst of all worlds (mandates with no controls) and Wall Street can barely contain their guffaws over a sternly worded speech from Obama yesterday.
What the corporatists running our country really fear is that some day we on the left and those screwball teabaggers on the right are going to figure out who the /real/ enemy of life, liberty and happiness is in this country, and we’ll join forces and go after them together with pitchforks.
Bubblegum Tate
I hope everybody saw The Daily show obliterate the teabaggers and their crazy-ass promoters in a mere three minutes. Nothing more need be said.
Corner Stone
@gypsy howell:
That’s why they spend so much money to make sure it never happens. Why do you think Beck exists?
CalD
Does anyone remember when the National Park Service called it quits on issuing a crowd size estimates for events on the capitol mall? I seem to recall that happening in the wake of name-calling over their estimates for an anti-war rally, but I’m not completely certain.
Corner Stone
@Da Bomb:
Holy shit. I just read your link. Are they saying there were tens of thousands of families participating in the Black Family Reunion – while tens of thousands of angry racists were gathering *right* beside there setup?
The mind boggles.
gypsy howell
@Corner Stone:
You betcha.
Corner Stone
The mind also fucking boggles why the fucking edit feature is still unavailable.
kay
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ:
I thought about it when I saw former President Clinton and President Obama had lunch.
I hope they laughed.
gypsy howell
Oooh, I just got a fundraising call from the DSCC. Poor guy – I know he’s just a paid lackey, but I let him have it anyway. The gist of my message was that I was no longer going to waste the few dollars I have left trying to outspend the corporate lobbyists who write legislation for our democratic senators.
Oh. And single payer. Also. You betcha.
the sea farmer
I propose a theory – to gauge the attendance, look up the September 5th Fox News average morning rating. Then look up the September 12th Fox News average morning rating. Subtract the lower number (9/12’s) from the higher number (9/5), and you have, within 5% margin of error, the attendance.
Svensker
@Brian J:
it would lower the average I.Q. of the greater Washington by a bunch of points, causing the area to wonder, “Gee, exactly how do I put on these pants?”
Ha ha ha ha. Win!
LD50
@Bubblegum Tate: Link no work.
Cerberus
Oh yeah, it’ll be two million or more in the wingnut circles for all time. Expect it to morph into pointing out that it rivaled the Inaguration but liberal media, no darkies, purer, blah blah blah.
I’m going to expect this to jump to proof 1 of the evil liberal media and how it censors real America blah blah blah.
In reality, it is staggering how poorly attended this was. They have been planning this, promoting this, focusing all their wingnutty energy on this exact day, this exact march for half a year. This was being sold as Super Christmas for the wingnut set and FreedomWorks and the like were set to bus them in by the truckload. An entire media network has spent months now basically trying to get people to circle the date on the calendar and pour out. It is by far the most promoted protest in the history of this nation in no uncertain terms.
And it only got 6-10 times what we’ve organized in southern california over a frantic weekend to protest things like prop 8, something only attended by locals with little planning and publicity over a week and zero media support.
That’s the saddest thing, even worse than the fact that the “marchers” are almost to a person retired pensioners with literally nothing better to do with their time.
CalD
@gypsy howell:
I have a feeling they may be getting a lot of that right now. I got a call from them the other day too. When I interrupted the poor guy mid-pitch and said, “I can save us both some time. I’m not going to contribute any money to the DSCC right now,” his reaction seemed rather curious — kind of a mix of apologetic and embarrassment. Could have been his first day on the job or something but it left me wondering.
steve s
Because he gets really high ratings for a cable news show.
steve s
“In reality, it is staggering how poorly attended this was.”
I know. It means the chances of Jesustan seceding are virtually nil. I haz a sad.
steve s
Steve fastasy number 14:
(the year, 2011. The GOP has just lost another 4 seats in the senate and 22 in the house. Wingnuttia has lost its mind. Children are removed from school, the price of gold hits $3000/oz as the wingnuts dump ‘fiat money’.)
Mike Huckabee: “So-called President Obama, I hereby present you with this document. We, the petitioners, representing the legislatures of South Carolina, Arkansas, Kansas, Texas, etc., hereby Declare Independence and sever ties with the Union.”
President Obama: “So long! Don’t let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya!”
Da Bomb
@Corner Stone: Yes. Bascially. The teabaggers are biggest baffoons since…
Da Bomb
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ: Hee-hee, you made a funny! I love it.
gypsy howell
That’s the saddest thing, even worse than the fact that the “marchers” are almost to a person retired pensioners with literally nothing better to do with their time.
I just found out this morning that a person I work with — a late 30s guy with 3 kids from FL — took the whole family to DC for the protest. Sigh. I knew his politics and religion were what I would consider fringe-lunatic (he loves OReilly, and now, I guess I have to assume he loves Beck too) but he’s actually a very bright and very funny guy. I was pretty disappointed, though not terribly surprised, to hear he went.
Yeesh.
OTOH, he’s
A) an evangelical Christian
and
B) deeply in the closet
… so the guy has lots and lots of denial issues with reality.
Needless to say, in the interest of trying not to hate each other while we’re at work together, we never, ever, ever talk about politics. And to his credit, he keeps his religion to himself, at least at the office.
zoe kentucky in pittsburgh
I’ve been thinking that a showing of 100,000 (or less) is really quite low considering how much Beck and FoxNews have publicized the event. It’s sorta sad, really.
The thing about protests that conservatives haven’t learned that most liberals have is that they really don’t do much more than make their attendees feel like they’re doing “something.” They’re personally meaningful to people who live in areas that are generally hostile to their beliefs (liberals in red states, etc) feel less alone and isolated. I’ve been to my share of big protests and marches (I lived in DC from 98-06) but wouldn’t have gone to many of them if they hadn’t been in my backyard. Protests are basically feel good exercizes that, sadly, do not do much to change public perception or opinion. The point in which they were politically powerful is pretty much over– civil rights marches, glbt rights, etc. Back when taking to the streets was actually a risky act that took courage. But now? Politicians don’t take notice because protests are easier to organize than ever now thanks to the internet.
I personally hope that the right wing spends the next few years organizing endless protests, better that they do that than actually organize to do anything productive.
tigrismus
You don’t mess with Glenn Beck. This guy came out of nowhere and started a movement six months ago. On Saturday, they filled the national mall.
Well, except for his long history as a radio host(he’s been on radio since the 80’s) and his job on CNN before going to Fox. You’re right that no one should mess with him, though; he looks like he’s got the hydrophobie real bad.
SueinNM
I read this site and comments several times a day but seldom comment.
How can ANYONE, honestly, not realize by this point that BOB is a Poe? “That’s why women were given boobs and not strong arms?” “I was out walking my snail?”
Come on! He’s a great parodist, maybe the greatest, but he is a Poe!
lou
Anyone who lives in DC and has been through crowds on the Mall know they are blowing smoke out of their ass. It’s pretty laughable. Funny how the Metro ran on a regular Saturday schedule without any trouble and 14th St didn’t need to be blocked off because of the heavy volume of cars and pedestrians. My cell phone never went kaput during their protest, as it did during the Inauguration and during the March for Women’s lives.
As someone who worked as a volunteer at the Inauguration around the Lincoln Memorial (the western-most part of the ceremony, 2 miles from the Capitol), trust me, they have absolutely no concept of what 1-2 million people mean. It took an hour and a half to walk three blocks on Independence Ave, normally a 15-minute stroll.
Ken
@83: Steve fantasy number 14:
Then, Federal Medicare and Social Security payments to the former states cease. How long before every idjit involved in the secession movement is hanging from the nearest tree?
lou
PS they didn’t “fill” the Mall. They didn’t even fill two blocks of the Mall. There was plenty of space between the protest and the Black Family Reunion tents.
HyperIon
@Bubblegum Tate: I hope everybody saw…
linky no worky.
HyperIon
@SueinNM: he is a Poe!
what the fuck is a Poe?
Also my experience with crowds on the Mall (and in the Metro) has to do with the fireworks on the 4th of July. Does anyone know what THOSE estimates are typically?
Mike in NC
And it smells quite bad. Please be considerate enough to flush and turn on the ceiling fan.
shakinghead
@someguy:
Tax Analyst
shakinghead inquired:
“What was the porta-potty count? If Freedomworks truly expected a crowd of a million, how many porta-pottys did they contract for?”
They used the True Porta-Potty – diapers.
Think of it – thousands upon thousand of used wing-nut diapers. Likely the most outstanding productive output of any of their lives.
Rob S
I’m up to 9 Million, do I hear 10? can somebody confirm 10 million?
anon
@Rick Massimo:
It may be war, it’s also incredibly dis-respectful.
By stripping the dead of their uniforms and dogtags,
it makes it hard to return the bodies and personal effects
to the families.
Widows and orphans lack then even the cold comfort of an
honorable funeral for their fallen husbands, sons and fathers.
josephdietrich
The only good thing about this is that when they finally rise up in revolt, the rest of us can decimate their two-million man army by simply counting them.