After months of frustrating deliberations, and a threat from the White House that President Obama would write his own legislation, Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus has finally circulated a draft of a health care bill–one that contains neither a co-op plan nor a public option.
The committee was expected to propose creating a system of privately run, regional, health care co-operatives in lieu of a public option, but Baucus has eschewed even that compromise. According to the New York Times, Baucus’ plan is calculated to win the support of Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-ME). But Snowe supports a public option affixed to a so-called “trigger mechanism,” raising questions about why this plan doesn’t at least propose something along those lines.
But I do wonder whether, if the details are not thought through carefully, you might not end up with a system less effective at driving down costs than driving down the number of Democrats serving in Congress.
This is the first time during this whole process I’ve been scared. For the past few months, I’ve believed that Democrats would create a decent (if not spectacular) bill that would make it easier for Americans to get health insurance and possibly do something about controlling costs, and that the bill would prove to be a major political success in the medium and long terms.
Now, I’m not so sure.
joe from Lowell
There’s a game going on, but I can’t figure out what it is.
Why would Baucus come out with a plan like this just before Obama’s speech?
To get a reaction from the left? To what end?
NobodySpecial
To hell with 11 dimensional chess. I’m all for battle axes at 5 feet.
Brien Jackson
You’re worried about the aspect of the process that, so far, has about the least amount of relevance to the process?
Maude
Put down the pearls. It’s okay.
This is not a done deal.
The House wants a public option.
Senator Baucus is obstructing.
He wants something.
The game is to see how far they can push Obama.
Medicare got through and at that time, things were a lot less progressive than they are now.
valdivia
hmm. let’s see. Baucuas said before recess he would have a bill out by sept 15th. This is the Bill. He said it would not have a public option, this one doesn’t. Most peopel thought it would have co-ops, instead it has a trigger. What I do not get is this–we always knew the Finance bill would be terrible, and now that it’s here why are people acting as if this is *the* final bill? Obama will give his speech outlining what he wants and then we will have to bring all 5 bills together in committee and all other bills are far more progressive, but that means the final bill will not necessarily look like THIS bill it will be something else. And then we have the ace of reconciliation so again, to repeat Ezra’s constant complaint: can we not freak out until the final bill is out and we know what is in it? We always knew the Baucus bill would be awful and now here it is. Once that is out of committee there will finally be a bill to vote on and you can bet it wont be a carbon copy of this.
rock
This will essentially be the plan adopted and it will be a windfall for the insurance companies. Where some saw a crisis, they saw an opportunity. We have before us a plan that will force all to purchase insurance, whether they can afford it or not with government subsidies to the companies thrown in. The companies will get to retain the current practice of recission and denial of coverage to those with pre-existing conditions (if not explicitly then at least in reality).
What a triumph of American capitalism. You know, say what you will about McCain, but if he had been elected this never would have happened because the Democrats would not have agreed to it.
henqiguai
Concur with Brien @3 and Maude @4. Further, in the childish world of places like the Senate, when playing the negotiations game, propose the most absurdly stupid, then through <emhard fought bargaining, settle for more or less exactly what you wanted.
As they been sayin’, chill and let go the pearls…
Rhoda
Honestly, I read this as good news.
(1) Clearly, the Baucus bill isn’t going to be the final bill.
(2) He put in the taxing the insurance stuff Democrats have been pushing to get.
(3) The co-op is dead.
(4) Nelson coming out for a trigger indicates the public option lives on and is gaining steam.
(5) I think everyone is acutely aware of the fact that this needs to lift people up if they don’t want to get creamed in 2010.
(6) This will be merged w/the HELP bill so I think we’re going to see Reid (who is up for election) take a lot more from the HELP bill regarding subsidies and coverage. JMHO
That Baucus is getting his shit together and out of committee means we’re finally making progress again; real progress.
PeakVT
You too can play the game of “Getting to 50” with this handy list. What Baucus wants matters only if Obama is playing “Getting to 60”, which is a lot less fun.
valdivia
@Rhoda:
Exactly. I just do not understand why people are reading this as if Baucus us the one that writes the final bill. This is not the case, this is ONE bill of 5. A bill btw that most people did not think would even come out.
scarshapedstar
This bill is an absolute farce, explicitly aimed at making health care more difficult to obtain.
Baucus ought to be greeted with torches and pitchforks.
henqiguai
Who’d I piss off ? C’mon, where’d that thoughtfully and damned well written comment go ??
So, as Brien, Maude, and valdivia point out, it’s all noise. Remember, this is Congress. Typical tactics start with the most outrageously stupid demands you can get past your Committee. Then, through arduous politicing and brutal negotiations, you compromise “down” to, more or less, exactly what you had in mind in the first place. Come on, I can’t negotiate my way out of the restroom without backtracking on the signs, and even I know that about the art of negotiation.
As they say, chill, and let go the pearls.
Demo Woman
The Baucus bill could increase the premiums some pay. That clearly would not work in this environment. (duh)
scarshapedstar
BTW, for all the people saying this is good news.
For some fucking reason completely beyond my understanding, the White House has maintained that none of the other committee bills (every one of which contained a public option) matter, and the final package will be only superficially different from the one written by the Gang of
DicksSix. This is it. Unless they’re lying or bluffing or something, this is what they intend to bring for a vote. And so far they’ve been so utterly tone-deaf and uninterested that I don’t see why people are expecting them to do anything else.Micheline
Can we calm down a bit. The only reason that the Senate Finance Committee bill has to be bipartisan is because according to an old Committee rule a bill can only get out of the committee when at least one member of the minority party votes for it. This old rule has been in existence since the 1800’s (the Senate Finance Committee was established in 1815). The Conference is what we should be looking for.
Kanamit
WTF? Someone needs to inform Senator Baucus that the point of the Senate isn’t to piss of liberals.
Though I agree that this won’t be the final bill, specially now that Baucus has stopped even pretending to be serious about reform.
Punchy
Just read that the idea of having this surcharge/tax is to entice employers to give their employees weaker/less comprehensive HC plans, from what I read. Wow is this a real WTF and is guarenteed to piss off a huge number of hard-working peeps, if true.
Balconesfault
It is good that Baucus came out with something … anything.
It’s the stonewalling that’s killing this puppy.
Let’s let Baucus bill get out there with Kennedy’s bill … let’s let the Senate hash them out in open session … let’s let this thing go to be hashed out in reconciliation.
Comrade Mary
@scarshapedstar: I don’t see anyone saying that this is good news, just not necessarily a disaster.
Got quotes on the White House supporting this bill above all others?
smiley
Being too lazy to check for myself but do we know if this “draft” has even been voted on in the Finance committee? Baucus is the chairman but he can’t vote these things out of committee by himself.
I.Lurk
Classes start tomorrow so for the next 15 weeks I’ll be in the black hole of teaching again, and won’t be able to come here to read very often. But before I go, I just want to say THANK YOU. I love reading this blog. I like the posts, and even better (most times) the comments.
I mean, really. “Battle axes at 5 feet.” Hear ye, hear ye! I’m all for that too. (As long as they’re metaphorical…real blood would do ME in.)
Demo Woman
@Micheline: Thanks for the info. Baucus might just be daring the repubs not to sign on.
Mike P
The rumor is that Obama is supposed to be making the case for the public option on Wednesday, so it might actually be useful that this whack plan by Baucus comes out now, so it can be forgotten about if (and it’s a big if) Obama does indeed push for some sort of public plan (especially since Snowe and Nelson both seem to be ok with some sort of trigger).
valdivia
@scarshapedstar:
do you have a link to this statement? I recall very clearly it being repeated that once all the bills came out of committee the real work would begin. Unless you have a link and source for this I have a very hard time believing this as in countless interviews as recently as a couple of weeks ago this was not the case.
harlana pepper
Well, I’m pretty sure I can at least rely on Nancy whipping out a 2×4 and using it without restraint when this or some other piece of crap bill comes back to the House. I just want to hear the same passion from our President. Hopes for Tuesday.
Mike P
@scarshapedstar:
At the beginning of this, Obama said just get him something that can get to conference and they can figure it out there. He knows that Dems overwhelmingly want a public option and since it’s in five of the six bills, I’d bet that some form of public plan will be in the bill that gets signed.
Brien Jackson
@Comrade Mary:
Meh, I’ll go ahead and say it’s good news. Aside from the fact that Baucus can’t write the final Senate bill, he can’t really write the final committee bill either. That’s why this is a “draft.” The other Democrats on the committee will have their shot at it too. But if Baucus is putting out his own draft outside of the Gang of Six, that’s putting some pressure on Olympia Snowe to decide how she’s going to play this, and gets everything much closer to getting out of Finance, where leadership merges the Finance and HELP bills.
And I also tend to think this is going to have to go through reconcilliation anyway, which would mean you can’t really do anything for another month. So maybe that plays into my thinking a bit.
James
Okay, back of the envelope math on Baucus plan as I understand it (see below for NYT link explaining the plan DISCLAIMER: numbers are not exact):
Let’s take the probable cost to a family of four at 300% FPL. Okay, that’s around $66,000 per year. That’s a little more than the median household income in the US. And 400% FPL is three quarters of all households, roughly. That means that the plan proposes subsidies for three quarters of all families. That’s A LOT of subsidy! A staggering amount of subsidy. There are around 79 million tax-paying families, so you are subsidizing 58-59 million families. Huh. Thats 58 million dollars a month for one dollar of subsidy.
Also. Family portion of premiums run 13% of annual income. For 300% FPL, that is $8,500 per year or $715 per month. And that is subsidized. That’s a huge chunk out of MY paycheck.
For 400% FPL, it’s 11,500 and $950. And that is *subsidized.* That is MY portion of the cost. Oh, sure. I can fork over another 900 bucks a month. No problem! Make it a thousand!
And that’s only the premiums, as I understand it. And then, Baucus is only paying 70% of the claim up to around $11,900 per year.
So if my math is correct, take the 400% fpl numbers (three fourths of ALL American families!), 11,500 for premiums AND 11,900 out of pocket per year, that’s around $23,400 PER YEAR potentially in medical expenses. How is that not going to bankrupt someone? Especially with a chronic disease? I’m telling you, if I am paying 11,000 in health insurance premiums, I want gold-plated stretchers and IV’s of fine Kentucky bourbon, I don’t know about you.
And then, the government’s share in subsidy is over and above all that. Um. I’m jest an old country boah from west Texas, but, that just don’t sound like much of a deal, to me.
Source: New Fee on Health Insurance Companies Is Proposed to Help Expand Coverage – NYTimes.com
Income statistics: FINC-06–Part 1
burnspbesq
I understand that the most important thing right now is to get a bill – any bill – out of Finance so that the real work can begin.
That said, I reserve the right to be pissed at Baucus. If a viable primary challenge emerges, my checkbook will be open for the challenger. Committee chairs are supposed to advance the majority party’s agenda, not sabotage it.
Davis X. Machina
I hated group projects in school because the Max Baucuses of this world are legion.
This was one of those group-work assignments that you know you can’t flunk by doing badly — there are too many kids actually working — but you can flunk by not turning anything in at all.
So you leave it to the last minute, and bang it out in an hour or so. He half-assed it, we know he half-assed it, and he knows we know he half-assed it, but it’s a group grade.
I always figured the committee wouldn’t report out a bill at all, because grading in the Senate isn’t even pass-fail, but Baucus had to produce something. Tom Harkin was making noises about taking committee chairs away by secret vote in caucus.
They’ll mark this up in an afternoon, and find some (hopefully innocuous) section of the Finance draft to include in the Senate bill — one that gets filleted in conference — because it’s group work, and everyone has to have ‘ownership’ of the final project.
SenyorDave
I will be the first to admit that I was wrong consistently during the election when I thought Obama was too passive, and not being aggressive enough in his actions.
The difference now is that he is not running against McGrumpay and the Bubblehead.
At some level Emmanuel should have communicated to Baucus that there would be a price to pay if he came out eith a bill that was a wish-list for insurance companies. Here’s hoping Baucus loses his next Senate election and somehow through a twist of fate ends up having to rely on the insurance that mere mortals have, and it ain’t enough for the contemptible piece of garbage.
FlipYrWhig
That’s news to me. Got proof?
The Grand Panjandrum
My comment in the last thread applies here as well.
It also appears that this will all boil down to what Obama says (doesn’t say) in his address to Congress. If he starts with the full court press we may have a chance to see some meaninful change. If not, then its better to have no bill than a bill that will essentially require people who can’t afford it to have health insurance and put more money in the pockets of the industry thieves.
JenJen
@valdivia: This:
Everything coming out of Politico or CNN or TPM has been, as far as we know, speculative. When CNN reported the other day that the WH plan would not include the public option, NBC News shot down their reporting almost immediately.
I’m just not sure how much any of this reporting, including TPM’s, is reliable. Obama’s speaking here in Cincinnati today and honestly, until we hear the speech, which is in front of an invited labor audience, I don’t feel like speculating. But I’ll speculate this far… I don’t think he’s going to stand up in front of the AFL-CIO on Labor Day and ask them to support an over-compromised, weak-ass health care bill.
Kryptik
My biggest fear is that when it comes to hashing out the final bill, it’s dumbed down to the lowest common denominator (i.e. this), because it’s the most ‘bipartisan’, and because it was worked on SOOOOOOO long, it has to be the best one.
arguingwithsignposts
Can I just say Fuck you, Max Baucus? I don’t care what he’s come out with, he’s been an insufferable prick surrounded by insufferable pricks during this entire process.
Every other committee in this process has done its job months ago. Baucus is an incompetent hack by comparison, and deserves to be assigned to head up the Senate subcommittee on daylight savings time reconciliation for the rest of his time in teh Senate which will, hopefully, be short.
Lizzy L
I agree with all the posters above, who pointed out that this is one version of a bill that will actually be hammered out (or cobbled together — choose your metaphor) in House-Senate conference.
There’s a good possibility that Baucus is playing for the Republicans and for the media. He is giving them what they want — no public option — and giving them a chance to vote for it. If none of them do, the Democrats can say, we offered them what they wanted and they refused to work with us. If Baucus gets even one Republican on his committee to vote for it, a case can be made that the process was appropriately bi-partisan (bleeah) — and then the Democrats can write the real bill in conference and use reconciliation to bring it home.
Kabuki. I hope I’m right. We’ll see, soon.
I think it’s important to keep in mind that whatever bill we do get, it can be added to. Someone recently pointed out (I can’t recall who it was — Yglesias, maybe?) that the bills which created Social Security were only the beginning; over subsequent years, the Social Security system was added to, amended, refined, improved, etc. This particular health reform bill is not our last and best shot — unless the base (i.e. us) deserts Obama and the Republicans take back the WH and Congress.
SenyorDave
What I’d like to hear from Obama:
A public option will force competition among insurers, helping to drive down health care costs. That is what people want. That is what ios bes for the country, and I will not sign a bill without some form of a public option.
While polls show overall support for a public option, some people don’t support it.
Many of these same people don’t believe that I was born in the United States. Some of those people don’t realize that Hawaii is a state, and many of the remainder get their new from Fox.
(Hold up a copy of the Certificate of Live Birth) This has been certified by the governor of Hawaii, a Republican. Get over it!
Maybe add “Suck on it, Dobbs”
Davis X. Machina
@Rhoda
(2) He put in the taxing the insurance stuff Democrats have been pushing to get.
This is an idea that goes back to 1988 and Bill Bradley’s attempts at HCR. Kerry was pushing it early this year, and Schumer likes it.
It may be the piece that gets the one R Vote that the bill needs to move out of committee, since Snowe’s known to be partial to this funding mechanism. It’s basically a back-door version of capping or eliminating the business tax exclusion for health benefits, which unions won’t stand but Republicans love.
This draft is designed to get one vote, and that from a lady in Maine, first in committee, and then on cloture.
If implemented, it would do more to force a public option than anything, since businesses downshifting their health insurance buys to beat the tax will be driving their highly compensated employees into the same market real people face.
Mike P
I love Josh Marshall and Atrois, but I don’t think they have any more insight into what’s going on than any of us do and so I’m kind of at the point of just being “meh” every time they say that things are going bad, or that Dems are obviously failing, etc.
They may well be right in the end, but considering that Obama’s speech is coming on Wednesday, we might as well just wait and see for once instead of attributing all sorts of misguided motivations to everyone involved (except Max Baucus…he’s totally misguided).
Mr Furious
I’m not exactly sure why THIS is the last straw for DougJ’s fortitude… It’s been clear Baucus was going to vomit forth an awful bill—here it is. At this point I almost believe he needed to put forth the worst bill possible to ingratiate himself with whoever shoveled campaign cash his way, so he could claim due diligence.
Baucus’ bill will NOT be the final Senate bill, and certainly not the final reconciliation bill.
My hopes aren’t high about anything anymore, but if Obama gives his speech—and it’s missing, or sacrifices, the public option—THAT’S when I will join DougJ.
RandyH
I wonder if Obama’s speech might have a surprise. Somthing like:
“You had all this time and all you could come up with were these five piles of crap that confuse everybody, enrich the industry and don’t achieve any of the goals that were established. The American People have been very patient with you and you all failed. So I will release a bill tomorrow that meets all of the goals and is clean of any special-interest giveaways. You can try to amend it, but I have been assured by Nancy and Harry that it will be voted on this month as a clean bill.”
Leelee for Obama
Being pissed at Baucus isn’t just OK, it’s a moral imperative. I think this gets all the shit on the table and now, they start stuffing the ground meat in the casing. Ugly, hideous in fact, but most people will eat sausage anyway.
There was an interesting piece on HuffPo about what kind of “compromise” Kennedy might have gone for. Letting the “trigger” be pulled by the individual States, by letting them opt-in or not on PO. Not sure I agree, but it’s food for thought. I doubt Flori-duh would opt-in at first, but things are really ugly here, and not looking up anytime soon, so maybe the writer of the article is on to something. Theory is, the InsCos won’t fulfill the challenge(surprise), and then the States that opted-in will look very good by comparison, and businesses will threaten to move to get the PO. Devious. That’s why I’m kinda impressed.
James
Hey what’s with all the “moderation”? Help! Rescue me!
James
Crap. Never mind.
FlipYrWhig
You will probably hear him say that he wants competition and cost control, and he believes a public option is the best way to accomplish that, and he’s happy to entertain other approaches that provide similar results. You, I, and he all know that no other approach does. He wants to be able to argue that he supports it because it’s the most effective policy, not because he’s a liberal ideologue who thinks that Gubmint Knows Best. It’s his Dukakis strain. It’s been very consistent.
The media’s failure to understand that Obama rhetorically insists that the important feature of the bill is the ENDS rather than the MEANS has caused a lot of unnecessary pearl-clutching, hand-wringing, and probably pearl-wringing too.
donovong
Baucus releases a proposed bill? Big fucking deal. Theirs is one of several, and while that committee holds a great deal of power over the whole bill, they are hardly the final arbters of anything. Besides, this is from the “Gang of Six,” not the whole committee.
For the umpteenth time this summer – Calm the fuck down.
valdivia
@JenJen:
exactly. One of the things that really gets me angry is that everyone in the blogs gets upset over speculation that when it turns out to have been totally wrong they fail to even recognize that the pearl clutching was all based on speculation and they were wrong.
Why don’t we hear what Obama has to say before screaming that all is doomed? And wait for the bills as well?
Corner Stone
@JenJen:
Well, I agree with you in that he won’t actually *describe* it as such. But that is exactly what he’s going to ask them to do. And from the noises the AFL-CIO leaders have been making about accepting a bill with no PO…
mcc
There are, I think, five committees. Four of them have already decided for the public option. Baucus’ committee is the fifth. When Baucus gets his bill voted out, they start on merging all the different committees’ bills together. If Baucus cannot get a bill voted out, the entire process just kind of blocks. Baucus is doing more damage, much more damage, by failing to get a bill voted out than he would be by getting a bad bill voted out. If he gets a bad bill voted out, the question is how to merge the bills such that the four good bills override the one bad one. If he just stalls, like he’s been doing, the entire process grinds to a halt and there is nothing for the news to discuss except people screaming about fascist socialism at town halls; there is nothing that can be done unless Harry Reid decides to do weird parliamentary maneuvers to bypass Finance altogether, which I’d imagine could backfire.
Just get it over with. There was never any reason to believe the Finance committee bill would have a public option in it. Once it’s voted on, we no longer have to think about Baucus at all.
Progressives lately are more obsessive about finding complex ways the process is going to fail than they are about finding techniques to make sure the process succeeds.
Demo Woman
@RandyH: That would be a win!
The Grand Panjandrum
Because it is far more entertaining to have people run around with their hair on fire screaming about the apocalypse?
FlipYrWhig
@valdivia:
If anything, it seems like people remember being pissed off, and it just keeps building, even when what they were pissed off about was wrong. No one ever feels relief. It’s wearying.
Corner Stone
@RandyH: To quote the near legendary Barney Frank, “On what planet do you spend most of your time?”
slag
@Mike P: I’m just happy JMM and others are saying what I’m thinking. For instance:
No.
And…
Pretty much.
Whether or not Dems are going to address these concerns is a question, but it’s good to see them out there.
mcc
I made a comment. But I used the BAD WORD. So it got held for moderation. I am going to make the comment again without the BAD WORD.
There are, I think, five committees. Four of them have already decided for the public option. Baucus’ committee is the fifth. When Baucus gets his bill voted out, they start on merging all the different committees’ bills together. If Baucus cannot get a bill voted out, the entire process just kind of blocks. Baucus is doing more damage, much more damage, by failing to get a bill voted out than he would be by getting a bad bill voted out. If he gets a bad bill voted out, the question is how to merge the bills such that the four good bills override the one bad one. If he just stalls, like he’s been doing, the entire process grinds to a halt and there is nothing for the news to discuss except people screaming about death panels at town halls; there is nothing that can be done unless Harry Reid decides to do weird parliamentary maneuvers to bypass Finance altogether, which I’d imagine could backfire.
Just get it over with. There was never any reason to believe the Finance committee bill would have a public option in it. Once it’s voted on, we no longer have to think about Baucus at all.
Progressives lately are more obsessive about finding complex ways the process is going to fail than they are about finding techniques to make sure the process succeeds.
Leelee for Obama
@SenyorDave: @RandyH: Both of you made me smile! I love fantasy politics. Wouldn’t it be great, just once, if we could put our words in their mouths? Always wanted to witness a real Mr. Smith Goes to Washington moment too-years of watching c-span have yielded a few great moments, but nothing like the movie. Sigh!
Corner Stone
@valdivia:
I must’ve missed the part where D leaders committed to using reconciliation?
Keith G
@Micheline: I heartily agree!
None-the -less, I am still telling the Dems that I have contributed to and worked for, that they do not want to play chicken with me. They either find a way to do the morally correct thing and get immediate help to the “left out” Americans or I am on the sidelines for ’10 and anti Obama in the ’12 primaries.
That would hurt me as I like being involved and I am sure that one voice will not change much, but I hope there are others. And I hope a message gets sent.
I am so tired of living in a country that was the first (and only) to use an atomic weapon, but that sixty-four years later still does not find away to humanely handle health care for its own citizens.
JenJen
@Corner Stone: Well, I haven’t consulted my crystal ball, but I’m one of those liberals that watched us turn on Bill Clinton in the same manner, and watched everything that happened after the left collapsed on him. I’m not looking forward to the re-run, and so I’m not throwing in with the doubters yet.
If there’s one thing this President is very, very good at, it’s making a game-changing speech that comes as a bit of a surprise to all the political jockeys out there. Yes, yes, my liberal friends tell me it’s over, I put too much trust in him, we should’ve elected Hillary, blah blah blah. I’m not there yet. Check back with me on Thursday morning.
Leelee for Obama
@Corner Stone: Commit is a very big word, and not to bandied about, Sir! The idea has been put out in public consciousness, so that, if needed, some of the people actually know what it is. At least, that’s my reading of it.
JenJen
@Corner Stone: I don’t think it would be a smart political move to openly commit to the reconciliation process before there’s a bill, and the House passes that bill. You especially don’t commit to this kind of move while the GOP are screeching about death panels and school indoctrination.
BR
I’m betting the Baucus bill having mandates with no public option will have one side-effect: it’ll require the Republicans on the committee to show their cards – not just to us, but to the public and media as well.
That means Grassley and others can no longer claim to support reform but be opposed to the public option: they’ve been given a bill without the public option. As soon as they state their opposition to the bill, I think it makes Baucus’s bill unimportant, since the main reason for its form was to be bipartisan.
The Grand Panjandrum
OT: The text Obama’s speech to indoctrinate our children into the ways of marxism and socialism has been released. Next up: Will Barack Obama force children to eat fresh vegetables? Be kind to puppehs and kittehs? Help grandma or grandpa cross the street to meet with a euthanasia panel?
JenJen
O/T: The Evil Presidential School Indoctrination Speech has been released:
http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/09/obamas-remarks-for-school-address-as-prepared-for-delivery.php?ref=fpblg
Boy… I’m thinking there are going to be some red faces over on the GOP side. Oh, wait… no, that would only occur if they actually had some shame or dignity.
The Grand Panjandrum
Yikes, I forgot about the little bill pill moderation clause in my commenting contract.
Cain
Clearly, everything told to me on “How a Bill Becomes a Law” on School House Rock was not 100% correct. I am very disappointed.
cain
Kryptik
@BR:
See…I’m deathly afraid of the exact opposite. That the continued refusal of Republicans to approve of even the Baucus bill will prompt even further watering down. For the sake of ‘bipartisanship’, even if Snowe ends up the single sole R vote we get in either house.
Corner Stone
@Leelee for Obama: and JenJen –
I agree, why show your cards, etc.? But I wasn’t the one suggesting we should have no worries because “reconciliation” was our savior if several bad bills come together somewhere.
My question was really – why does anyone think D leaders *will actually use* this tool in their toolbox? People keep saying it but easily read track records do not suggest this will happen.
valdivia
@The Grand Panjandrum:
but also not good for my health… ;-)
Corner Stone
@JenJen: Gotcha. I’ll pencil in an appt for “Hammering on JenJen” for Thursday.
>:-)
valdivia
@Corner Stone:
it was put on the budget last spring as a back door way to get a bill. It has always been there.
JenJen
@Corner Stone: Because if I don’t believe it, there really is no hope. If I don’t believe this time is different, then I’m kind of giving up. I’m not there yet. And political speculation has always annoyed me, but that’s more of a personal problem. :-)
ppcli
@Micheline:
Oho – thanks for some quality information. I didn’t know this procedural rule. Really then, it changes everything. It all makes sense. Do I understand correctly? Bills can be modified extensively once they’re out of committee. So the precise details of the Baucus bill are only relevant insofar as the committee Republicans are put in a position of having to either pony up the needed at-least-one vote, or else vote against a bill which is perfect, according to their own rhetoric.
valdivia
@FlipYrWhig:
so right. as I just said, I am all wearied out.
@mcc:
word.
ppcli
@ppcli:
Ah, I see BR at 61 has just said the same thing.
JGabriel
The Grand Panjandrum:
Obama is NOT going to do that. Obama has maintained all along that he supports a public option, but is open to other alternatives that compete with commercial insurance and rein in costs, and that co-ops have failed to do that in the past.
It’s theater, folks. Or mostly so, at any rate. The Republicans are not going to support ANY health care / insurance reform. But everyone is just returning from the summer recess, and Obama must appear open to all options that meet the goals of bringing down costs and increasing coverage.
Once the the GOP refuses to support the Baucus plan and fails to provide a plan of its own, Obama can tell people that the Republicans failed to provide a workable alternative and that a Democratic plan — passed on party lines and with a public option — is the best option and certainly cheaper than doing nothing.
Right now is too early for that. The autumn session is just starting, and Obama can’t say the latest round of negotiations have failed before they even begin. Give it 4-8 weeks.
.
Leelee for Obama
@JenJen: Clearly, the President is Pied Piper for the weak-minded children! Imagine if only a few kids in each class take this to heart. And maybe initiate an each-one-teach-one philosophy. Good God, People, we might get back to having the most educated students in the world! This is obviously a plot to overtake the Country with young people who think-talk about a disaster.
Jen-they have no shame as you say, but hopefully, a few of the less-ridiculous will let their kids listen.
Corner Stone
@valdivia: Lots of things have always been there. Something I seem to vaguely recall yet can’t quite grasp…filly-something?
Point being, existence is separate from invocation. You seem to be suggesting it’s something we can rely on, I am suggesting it will not be used.
Nick
@joe from Lowell: Because the President began working around him w/ Olympia Snowe.
valdivia
@Corner Stone:
yes except that it was put into *this year’s* budget with a purpose, and there have been numerous ‘leaks’ about using it. Do I know they will? I don’t know but having the option articulated as a real possibility as it has makes it more likely that the bill will pass. You are betting nothing will happen I am betting it will.
JGabriel
BR:
Exactly. Until that happens, Obama has to maintain the facade of being open to all options. When the GOP fails to provide ANY meaningful options, Obama can announce his support for whatever bill best meets his goals of cutting costs and increasing coverage — and you can bet that bill will have a public option.
.
JenJen
@Leelee for Obama: This speech is beautiful, it really is. Any parent who reads this and still decides to keep their kid home, or who doesn’t pressure their local lame-ass reactionary School Board, has serious issues of their own.
Stay in school. Study English so you can be a writer, study Science and Math so you can invent the next iPhone or vaccine. Join student government and the debate team and you, too, could be a Senator or SCOTUS Justice or President. I didn’t have a dad, and I didn’t fit in sometimes, either. But you know what? Do your homework… there are no excuses for your bad attitude. Don’t talk back to your teachers.
And I imagine this is the part the wingnuts were freaking over. Oooooh, scary:
Leelee for Obama
@Corner Stone: Turns out, that filly-something isn’t as effective as I thought. They don’t have to stand and speak, endlessly, looking obstructionist and ridiculous. They can leave one Senator there who, when a vote is called, notes the absence of a quorum, necessitating a roll-call. When that’s done, he just does it again. No one is watching that on c-span forever. You need 60 votes to shut that down. This whole process we’re watching is how you get the 60 for cloture.
Svensker
Had a conversation with a winger today about Obama speaking to The Children and How Horrible That Is. I didn’t get mad and persisted and she finally admitted that it normally would be OK for a President to talk to the nation’s children, but Obama is scary and what if he slips something sneaky into the speech?
These people really won’t admit there was an election.
JGabriel
@JenJen: Somehow it doesn’t seem at all surprising that the Republicans’ objection to Obama’s speech amounts to: Ask not what you can do for your country; ask what your country can do for you.
.
Bruce (formerly Steve S.)
Couple of things. First, Baucus’s plan is indeed not the end of the process, so there is no reason to to commit seppuku. Second, however, lefties still need to throw a shit fit. You have to keep the fucks who run the world on their toes every second of every day and never let up on them.
Leelee for Obama
@JenJen: Word!
I even teared-up a little. Without even a Kodak moment. God, I’m such a romantic. I love this Country sometimes, more than it deserves, probably.
The Grand Panjandrum
I should pull my kids out of class because of this part of the indoctrination:
It’s not in the constitution so I don’t want my kids to hear it.
/wingnut
JGabriel
@Bruce (formerly Steve S.):
Agreed.
.
Leelee for Obama
@The Grand Panjandrum: So, I take it, the Year of Our Lord argument holds no water with you, amirite? Luddite!
Demo Woman
@Leelee for Obama: Me too as I wipe the tears! In the south they call criticizing the President family values.
He’s suppose to speak to the AFL-CIO at 1:15 pm. We should get some hints then about health care.
Corner Stone
@Bruce (formerly Steve S.): This is kind of what I’m saying too (not to malign you by agreeing with you here).
All the people who said, “Wait…wait til Obama does something” have now morphed into, “Wait, this isn’t the final bill. Let’s see what the final bill is first.”
Well…no. By then it’s too late. The deals have been cut and the parameters have been set. Public opinion *may* be able to shave some edge off but by then we will be playing inside their laser tag arena, and not our paintball field.
Ok, that’s a little dated but it’s a throwback to Golden Oldies 80’s Music Thread I suffered through skimming this am.
Brutal.
The Grand Panjandrum
@Leelee for Obama: Absolutely! Yes, call me a opportunistic Luddite, as you would have to rip my laptop from my cold dead hand.
BTW thanks for the correction on the Madison / Adams mix up yesterday. I’m reading a biography of Madison so had him on the brain.
SIA aka ScreaminginAtlanta
@I.Lurk: Hey! Pop back in when you get a chance!
Woody
It’s performances like this, on clearly substantive, impactful, existential matters which turn me against the occasional calls for a Constitutional Convention.
The Congress and the Executive do not “not see” their clear duty to the PEOPLE to enact legislation providing universal health care to the People of the United States.
They know their duty; but they are well paid, richly reimbursed for their ability–their willingness, indeed– to ignore it.
Else why would they struggle so to make it appear that they were doing the public’s work?
ppcli
@Svensker:
Exactly right. Wasn’t it “the leader sent by God to protect us from the terrorists” (sic) who said “elections have consequences”?
Corner Stone
@valdivia: Yes, I agree with this.
I’ll be happy to be wrong if it gets us a PO with no triggers.
Speaking of betting – TZ still owes a charity money from our Preznitial Election wager. He bet McCain wouldn’t get 40% of the public vote.
JenJen
Oh jeebus. Kyra Phillips on CNN is openly pondering, “Isn’t the President’s speech to schoolchildren still partisan, though?”
Has she even read it? Because Kyra, the simple answer is “Hell no, you idiot, it’s not partisan.” Good gawd these people make me ill.
Corner Stone
@Leelee for Obama: Yeah, it’s not a perfect tool. Definitely something that shouldn’t be invoked all willy nilly.
But – it is a tool in the toolbox and to telegraph to the other side that you’ll never dig in the toolbox is a failed strategy. IMO.
Louise
Reading the comments here is pretty therapeutic. It’s been so long since I heard anything that seems like good news regarding reform that stories like this Baucus one make me feel ill.
But the comments give me some laughs, assure me that others are mixing the tar and plucking the chickens, and remind me that I should stop reading the news until we’re much farther along in the process.
I’m not going near Obama’s speech until I read about it here. The comments will tell me whether or not my heart can take it.
valdivia
@JenJen:
why i do not watch tv. god could they be more stupid?
Corner Stone
@Corner Stone: *Random Dancing*!!
SIA aka ScreaminginAtlanta
Hilda Solis is on the teevee, with Chuck Todd droning on and on over her, so I’m assuming BHO is about to speak?
ppcli
@JenJen:
If the Republicans want to insist that “Stay in school and work hard” is a partisan Democratic message, I think we can run with that. Nice to have the Republicans openly admit that they’re the party of dropping out and eating cheetos on the couch.
The Grand Panjandrum
@JenJen: The speech text could have been written for Regan or Clinton, it is so non-partisan. But when was the last time a cable news knucklehead missed an opprtunity to manufacture controversy where none exists?
JenJen
Just for some perspective here… can we all agree that we will probably like President Obama’s Cincinnati Speech a lot more than President Bush’s Cincinnati Speech?
As someone who protested outside that infamous speech in October of 2002, I say, enthusiastically, “YES.”
Leelee for Obama
@The Grand Panjandrum: No problem, which book?
The Grand Panjandrum
@Leelee for Obama: It would be quite effective after the second night of being hauled out of bed two-three time because of a quorum call. Most of these people aren’t that young anymore. Besides it would cut down on fund raising time.
Leelee for Obama
@Corner Stone: Yeah, I hear ya! Knowing it could be used, and not being sure whether it will is like making the Germans guess where d-day would land.
JenJen
@ppcli: @The Grand Panjandrum:
Partisan! And also, MACACA! Too.
jeffreyw
The speech will be on cspan, watch it there, save your self.
Leelee for Obama
@The Grand Panjandrum: In Dustin Hoffmann’s voice, “I’m chuckling here!”
SIA aka ScreaminginAtlanta
@Keith G: Exactly. I have surprised myself by inwardly siding with Pelosi and the other Progressives threatening to take down HCR if there’s no PO. For a long time I felt that any bill was better than none, and wanted one for Obama’s presidency as for the reform itself. But now seeing how much damage a bad bill can do, I no longer feel that way. As much as I like Obama, worked on his campaign, and contributed financially, I won’t support the legislation without a viable public option. I am so tired of bad, watered down legislation that is going to be “improved” later. It won’t be. But then I think about what happened to HCR under Clinton. Regardless, hopeful soon Baucus will be irrelevant; that at least is an improvement.
JK
@JenJen:
Kyra Phillips was too dumb to remember to remove her microphone when she went to the ladies room and her comments went viral
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dp7QhEeQF_o
ppcli
@JenJen:
Yep, that’s a partisan message. Compare that to the blatant Republican partisanship of “My Pet Goat”, and the Democrats are looking good.
JenJen
If you’re watching Obama’s Cincinnati speech, remember… Cincinnati is easily the most conservative city in Ohio, and in my opinion as someone who lives here, the northernmost southern city in America. Cincinnati is most responsible for blowing John Kerry’s chances in 2004.
And yet, Hamilton County still went for Obama over McCain in 2008.
asiangrrlMN
Walk the fuck on by, motherfuckers. Nothing to fucking see here.
valdivia
@JenJen:
how is the speech going? I hate that TPm is billing this as a confrontation between enemies. gawd.
slag
@JenJen: It kind of pisses me off when I’m so irritated with Obama and then he goes and writes a speech like that. He makes it that much harder to maintain a respectable level of outrage.
JenJen
@slag: I know! And it’s something I could’ve never, ever said about Dubya, either. Maintaining a respectable level of outrage was remarkably effortless during the Dubya Years. :-)
slag
@JenJen: So true. It was almost too easy.
scarshapedstar
Seems I was completely talking out of my ass. I stand corrected.
I think my mistake was due to two factors:
A) An article in which several Democratic representatives complained that the national discourse was focused entirely on the Senate for no discernible reason
and
B) Well, the fact that the national discourse IS focused entirely on the Senate for no discernible reason. Maybe it’s just because most the anti-reform assholes like Baucus are the kind of drama queens that the media loves to cover, and because Gibbs has spent more time discussing Senate Finance than any other group of legislators.
I suppose this is because, as Micheline pointed out, the SFC requires votes from both parties and so any bill that gets through it must, ipso facto, be “bipartisan”, and Obama has been reaching for that bipartisan gold ring since he took office.
I hope to god they’ve realized that any ‘compromise’ that comes out of this compromised committee should be laughed at and thrown in the trash, in that order. Looks like that will happen. Whew!
valdivia
@scarshapedstar:
yeah it has been confusing since all the other bills are out so people only focus on the one that is missing. but I get the frustration I think it is just important to not let the media spin gets us so down we believe the republican talking points.
Leelee for Obama
@JenJen: My default, honestly. By July 2003, I could barely look at him without wanting to throw something at the TV. To be clear though, despite the way he butchered my beloved mother tongue, I never said he shouldn’t be listened to by school children. I’d just push back on anything he said that I disagreed with. Civilized, so to speak. That, I think, is the difference between us and the other side. My ideas are strong enough to overcome the noise machine. If they’re not, I deserve to lose.
JenJen
Deep Thought: I can’t wait until Andy Card goes on teevee and bitches about the President not wearing a tie during this speech.
Corner Stone
@scarshapedstar: Feel free! Never stops me or anyone else round these parts!
JenJen
Obama’s Cincinnati speech: “I’ll have a lot more to say about this Wednesday night. I might have to save my voice a little. I don’t want to give anything away. I want you to tune in.”
“But I will say this: Every debate, at some point, comes to an end. At one point, it’s time to decide. We have never been this close. We’ve never had such broad agreement on what needs to be done, and because we’re so close to real reform, the special interests are doing what they always do.. just trying to scare people. You’ve heard about pulling the plug on grandma and covering illegal immigrants. You’ve heard the lies. I have one question for these people, “What are you gonna do? What’s your solution? You know what? They don’t have one.”
Oh Mr. President, you’re teasing us.
Max
Damn. President Obama is fired up in Cincy.
Just said to all the naysayers and the death panel crowd… I’ve got a question for you… what are you going to do? what’s your answer?
valdivia
@JenJen:
oh swoon. I feel a whole jujitsu coming on weds.
Leelee for Obama
@JenJen: Too bad I really don’t like the permanent campaign model, cause he is the best at it.
Leelee for Obama
@valdivia: Youbetcha! Too. Also.
I am so loving this, I need to turn up my AC a bit!
Max
Obama is in full preacher mode…. he gets like a southern accent that always makes me smile.
I think Obama needed to get some energy from this crowd to carry with him on Weds.
valdivia
so I feel like I need a cigi and I am not even watching the speech.
Max
He’s telling the Fired Up Ready to Go story. He’s in his element. Seems he is rested and ready to go.
JenJen
It makes sense to me that Obama is essentially giving a campaign stump speech to this crowd. He needs to. This crowd put him over the top in Cincinnati and gave him Ohio last November, and as everyone remembers, Ohio was the turning point that night, the moment everybody instantly knew that he won.
I’m glad he decided to come here to give that speech. I’m with Max… he needed the campaign energy, a little pick-me-up.
This speech will be trashed all to hell by the right, and the usual suspects, tomorrow. Good. It would appear the President has decided to take sides.
JGabriel
Wow. Obama’s getting even better at speechmaking – which I didn’t think was possible. I mean, I don’t think Obama will ever match Clinton’s ability to extemporize and improvise on the stump, but when it comes to writing and delivering a prepared speech, even Clinton can’t match Obama anymore. Pretty damn impressive.
.
Mike P
@slag: No offense, but this is pretty self-evident stuff. Passing a toothless bill is probably worse than passing nothing given all the time spent on it. I think most of us know that there has to be some sort of actual reform or this was all for naught.
JenJen
Interesting tweets from Chuckie T:
http://twitter.com/chucktpolitical
Comrade Luke
I wrote this at Atrios, and I think it deserves to be repeated.
I think you’re all missing the point.
Yes, it will be bad for American citizens. But it will be GOOD for Max Baucus, which is really all that matters.
As upsetting as all of this is, I think the much more worrisome fact is that civil service is no longer service.
Being a Representative, Senator, or even President and leader of the free world used to be considered an ultimate goal. Now it’s increasingly seen as a stepping stone to a more lucrative career in the industries for whom they write the legislation.
These people no longer see themselves as serving the public. They’re building their resume for the big payday.
burnspbesq
Well, there you have it. As if any further proof was needed that Obama Hates America, he rags on the All-American XBox and gives the Japanese PS3 and Wii a free pass.
valdivia
so what do you guys think the takeaway will be from the speech? by the Village I mean? will they now have the new narrative saying Obama is back (as if he went anywhere, of course)?
Max
@valdivia: Chuck Todd, the tool, is using the same talking points after the speech that he used before it.
He really is a horrible reporter or analyst or whatever he is.
Comrade Luke
@valdivia: I doubt they’ll react to the speech. They’ll react more to the Republican rebuttal.
valdivia
@Max:
Yeah he is such a disappointment Chuckie. But I am really very happy the speech went as it did. I am all ready for weds.
valdivia
@Comrade Luke:
I meant today’s not weds. But I think there will be more of a reaction than you predict.
Max
@valdivia: Twitter hates Chuckie T.
Here’s a good Tweet, addressed to Chuck, David Shuster and MSNBC for their coverage following the speech.
and
kay
I think you have to let go of the idea that Baucus is negotiating as a “Democrat”, and then his proposal makes sense as an opening offer.
He’s opening with no concessions to the Senate Democrats because they’re on the other side of the table.
He’s the opposition. His role is to oppose the Democrats in the Senate.
This way he can hand the Senate Democrats a trigger or a co-op deal and that’s a concession to the other side.
There is no rational Republican Party. Baucus is a Democrat, but he’s the rational opposition. There’s a void, and conservative Democrats are filling it. I think it’s going to be like pulling teeth to get media to admit this, but it’s a fact, and that’s how it’s playing out, daily.
It’s Democrats versus Democrats. There’s no rational debate at all outside of the Democratic Party.
Olympia Snowe cannot fill the hole left by “the Republican Party”, no matter how badly the media want this to be Democrats v Republicans.
valdivia
@Max:
thanks for reporting that, good some push back is being done on the fools.
kay
@Comrade Luke:
I think when you leave a void it gets filled. Baucus is the conservative at the table. Someone had to fill that role, Republicans are running around screaming, so they’re not the rational opposition, and there Baucus was, waiting.
This is his Big Break. There was an opening, he’s ambitious, and conservative, and he stepped right in.
SIA aka ScreaminginAtlanta
@valdivia: Well so far David Corn and Chuck Todd talk about a great, fiery speech, but hey you DFHs don’t expect no freakin’ public option.
JGabriel
@Max:
I’ve never understood the fandom for Todd any more than I understood the fandom for Ambinder. The only differences I can see between them is that Ambinder has better sources on the right, where Todd is better at polling analysis – and even there Nate Silver is much better, though even Nate occasionally has a tendency to grant too much credibility to GOP talking points in his analyses, in my opinion.
.
JenJen
@valdivia: I think there’s an actual chance here where The Village may decide the teabagger story is boring and played out, and might adopt an “Obama Is Back!” storyline.
It’s f’n pathetic that we even have to think about it in those terms. But, such is our modern political life and our increasingly ungovernable nation.
Steeplejack
@SenyorDave:
What I’d like to hear from Obama . . .
In your dreams, but that would be so sweet.
Elie
kay:
What you say.
There is no opposition party other than within the Democrats.
Worse than that, it leaves it up to one party to “make the system work” as designed in the Constitution.
Right now, the Republican party represents rule by the mob — the antithesis of representative and accountable governance. That the MSM has supported this in the way they have interpreted and promulgated the so called “news”, is nothing less than supporting an insurgency by that mob.
JGabriel
@JenJen:
I expect they’ll jump all over Obama’s statement that he “believes a public option should be” part of the bill.
Even though it’s what he’s been saying all along.
.
Corner Stone
@burnspbesq:
Oooo…excellent parse! You don’t mind if I shamelessly steal this and concern troll the absolute hell outta BJ do ya?
Why does the President hate American innovation? Why does he believe the Japanese are better educated and more talented? What will he be telling our school children tomorrow to get them to hate America too?!
Elie
Please let us not forget, no matter how much we want the public option and 100% coverage for all (which I strongly support too), how hard this is to do.
I say this not as an excuse if the final bill is not what some of us want, but to remind us about reality and the laws of science.
This will be a huge change affecting our economy and socio-political order. We are operating in an existing system run by insurance companies and strong provider prerogatives. As much as we would like it, the new system will not be made new and fresh out of thin air. We will have to build it out of the resources and structure that exist now. That means, we have to use the insurance companies and the provider organizations or this won’t happen. Our negotiations for change therefore have to consider that reality.
The Bush administration got a lesson in this during the Iraq war when they dismissed the Republican Guard and found much to their dismay that they could not transition safely to a post war stability without them (no I am not making an argument that the Iraq war was a good thing)
Big change is a challenge. It will be done but probably not like many on the left will want it exactly. That transition, however, the use of the existing to get to the new, is essential and reality based.
SiubhanDuinne
For that matter, how do we know that the draft speech to schoolkids is the ORIGINAL speech? I demand to see and touch the ORIGINAL. Those who say, well, it was posted on the White House website and on TPM and HuffPo and in all the newspapers are just naïve. Clearly there is a conspiracy to keep us from seeing the REAL speech text. Mind you, I’m not saying Obama won’t give this speech tomorrow. I’m just saying, why doesn’t he put these questions to rest once and for all and let us touch the long-form real original speech. Huh? Huh?
valdivia
@Elie:
I totally hear you.
JenJen isn’t depressing they have to change the story, or pretend it has changed, to make it ok to report on what Obama is doing truthfully?
Elie
The other need will be the rapid infusion of professional providers to serve the millions added to receive care.
The roll out of the plan will require thought and planning to make sure we can have particularly primary care providers available. The professional organizations involved in licensing and educating providers will need to be included. Production of medications and other pharmaceutical services will also have to be addressed…hence part of the need we saw for the administration and HHS to meet with the AMA, ANA and pharmaceutical industry.
The bright side is that there will be more jobs in the healthcare industry to help pull us out of the recession. More people will also be receiving preventive care and early treatment…
The administration cannot be irresponsible with this. Not only must this law pass with a good plan, but the implementation of it must be successful or this will undermine support for it going forward…
So you see, there is a ton of work to this — a ton.
Hope that we one day come to truly respect it instead of some bleating about how its all FAIL and why isnt it already done…
Keith G
@Elie: You raise many interesting and good points. As far as the need to address “…the rapid infusion of professional providers to serve the millions added to receive care.”, Ezra Klein and others have written about this – sorry I do not have the links on hand.
The jist seems to be that many of these “millions” are already in the system receiving attention at the most inefficient levels of care. Yes there will be issues, but not as bleak as if millions were to appear out of the mist and storm the waiting rooms of America. And if reforms were to include tax and student loan benefits to physicians choosing to forego a specialty practice and set up shop in underserved areas, we will see even fewer issues.
Delia
@kay:
Yeah, this is the Insight of the Month. If the Repubs want to remain at the place where their highest point of political discourse is “She’s a witch!” then the conservadems are eventually going to splinter off from the Democrats and become the conservative party.
burnspbesq
@Corner Stone:
You do realize, don’t you, that you will lose whatever tattered vestiges of credibility you still have by referring to a Microsoft product and the word “innovation” in the same sentence?
Corner Stone
@burnspbesq:
Never underestimate someone with nothing left to lose.
Elie
Keith G
Thanks for the information. I have no reason at all to doubt your estimates and would not be surprised that we may need less infusion of professionals.
My main point was to have people to understand more completely the details and planning that will need to be considered and get folks out of the “Tinker Bell wiggle my nose, its done”, expectation about health care reform.
TenguPhule
The Gang of Six needs to become six pike mounted heads.