Oh, what a lucky man he was

Not a big fan of Amy Sullivan, but she’s right about this:

In other news…South Carolina Lt. Governor Andre Bauer is calling for Mark Sanford’s resignation right now at a press conference in Columbia. If you’ll remember, Sanford’s tearful, rambling confession of infidelity in June dominated the news for less than 24 hours before Michael Jackson died and dominated every airwave and headline. The past few months haven’t been exactly smooth for the South Carolina governor, but he’s remained strangely committed to staying in office, resisting advice from friends who are telling him his time is up and remaining in Columbia while his wife and sons relocate to Charleston.

Now, his lieutenant governor calls a press conference to ask for his resignation–and it’s on the day Ted Kennedy died. As we’ve seen, those pre-produced cable montages and remembrances don’t stop for anyone.

Personally, I don’t think Sanford should have to resign. He shouldn’t have left the state without telling anyone, obviously, and he did a little bit of travel on the taxpayer’s dime (but not all that much). But in the end, he was being forced out because he made an ass of himself in his personal life. I think it’s better not to go down that road. I know most New Yorkers would take Client Number 9 back in a heartbeat right now, socks and all.






178 replies
  1. 1
    cleek says:

    ack. now i have that wacky keyboard solo from Lucky Man in my head.

    boooo weeeeEEEEeeee ooo weee ooo weee ooo ooo.

  2. 2
    Midnight Marauder says:

    But in the end, he was being forced out because he made an ass of himself in his personal life.

    No, the man completely abdicated his responsibilities as chief executive of his state, and was criminally negligent in his pursuit of making “an ass of himself in his personal life.”

    And the rabbit hole goes pretty deep about some of the things he did on the “taxpayer’s dime.” Either way, his personal life is but a small part of his larger failures. And those failures dictate the he vacate his office as promptly as possible.

  3. 3
    General Winfield Stuck says:

    I agree, always better to keep a cheating wingnut in the limelight. And South Carolinians deserve nothing less than to be reminded why they are morans for electing him in the first place.

    And Oh yes, all that stuff you said too.

    Concern Troll La Stuck/

  4. 4
    JGabriel says:

    I know most New Yorkers would take Client Number 9 back in a heartbeat right now, socks and all.

    Which is why I’m more than happy to let the Dixie Republicans in SC suffer their own little self-inflicted moral circular firing squad over irrelevant sexcapades.

    After Vitter, Craig, and sundry others stay in office while Dems are forced out over trivialities, it’s about time the social conservatives take out one of their own.

    .

  5. 5
    donovong says:

    We recently moved back to South Kakalakee after having been in GA for 6 years. I cannot stand Mark Sanford (or any of his ilk), and will not feel the least bit sorry for him as he is feasted on by his Republican brethren. Personally, I could give a shit about where he sticks his pee-pee, but he is deserving of every bit of this, after his stupid Sarah-Palin-impersonation stance on stimulus, and various other “conservanut” stunts.

    Fuck him.

  6. 6
    JGabriel says:

    General Winfield Stuck:

    I agree, always better to keep a cheating wingnut in the limelight.

    On second thought, the General makes a good point.

    .

  7. 7
    RememberNovember says:

    So in your moral equivalence Wheel of Misfortune, jetting off to Argentina on taxpayers dime+lying to his people+lying to his constituents+leaving the state without a Governor does not equal “dating” hookers or homosexual affairs and therefore an impeachable offense?

    survey says: XXX

    Personally Client # 9 has paid his pariah dues and would be a welcome slap in the face. Problem is the a-holes in Albany are circle jerking us into oblivion.

  8. 8
    JK says:

    Doug,

    Spitzer had to go because the Republicans would have brought everything to a screeching halt in Albany. There was no way anything would have gotten done in the NY state legislature if Spitzer had tried to ride out the storm.

    Midnight Marauder is right. Mark Sanford completely abdicated his responsiblities and is a 1st class scumbag. He has to be removed from office.

  9. 9
    Alan says:

    This post made me open my iTunes and crank up some Emerson, Lake and Palmer.

  10. 10
    JK says:

    Doug,

    What’s your beef with Amy Sullivan?

  11. 11
    r€nato says:

    what Midnight Marauder said. If he had been carrying on with the neighbor’s wife, that would have more easily fit into the category of, ‘personal peccadilloes and moral failings.’

    By the way, how come our so-called liberal media has never investigated why Client Number 9’s name is the only one which ever was publicly released? What about Client Numbers 1 through 8? What about 10 through X?

    Didn’t it ever seem odd to any of our noble journalists, that Client Number 9’s name was the only one which ever came out? Wouldn’t this be worthy of a little, oh what’s the word… investigation??? Or have our journalists forgotten how to do that and they can only write a story if some politician gives them a juicy rumor off the record?

  12. 12
    AnotherBruce says:

    In the real world of work, no call and no show means no job. If he’s that out of control that he can’t even check in when he’s absent, he should lose his job.

  13. 13
    JK says:

    @Alan:

    Yes, they were a great prog band.

  14. 14
    MikeJ says:

    @JK: Isn’t she the concern troll that is constantly going on about how all Democrats everywhere hate xtians and if they would just make abortion and homosexuality capital crimes they would win over that huge majority of people that voted for McCain?

  15. 15
    JGabriel says:

    @General Winfield Stuck:

    I agree, always better to keep a cheating wingnut in the limelight.

    On even further reflection, isn’t the Lt. Gov., who would presumably take Sanford’s place, both wingnuttier than Sanford and rumored to be gay?

    Assuming that a guy with that kind of political power wouldn’t be able to keep it in his pants for the entire term, it might be fun to watch SC conservative heads explode when they discover their super-winger replacement gov is a “goddam queer”.

    In other words, I could live with the trade-off.

    .

  16. 16
    Deborah says:

    I disagree Doug. First, Sanford is explicitly on record stating that marital infidelity makes one unfit to retain public office. He should either resign or issue heartfelt apologies, both public and private, to both Clintons. In the absence of such apologies, someone should hold him to his passionately espoused former standards.

    And running away from home is pretty serious. Consider: “No, we don’t know where he is. No, we don’t have any way to contact him. No, we don’t know when he’ll be back. No, we aren’t at all worried at hearing nothing from him for 4 days–he runs off like this all the time.” That’s really not serious governor behavior. It is serious “I have someone on the side” behavior, readily explaining his political enemies’ eagerness to fall on one of his longer absences with faux-concern for his safety–but he constructed that door and propped it open his own self.

    Luck, sure, but this is more about SC politics–where I doubt many people care much about Ted, but they also don’t appear to care much about Bauer. We could be in the usual August news vacuum and still, a press conference by the Lt Gov would be relegated to page 16.

  17. 17
    JGabriel says:

    JK:

    Yes, [ELP] were a great prog band.

    Ugh. I can’t stand them. They were one of the reasons the Sex Pistols were necessary, IMO. Which, granted, is true of my opinion of prog rock in general (excepting King Crimson, who, of course, were really more avant-garde than prog anyway …).

    But, what the hey, to each their own.

    .

  18. 18
    geg6 says:

    I don’t agree with you at all about his infractions being minor, Doug.

    But it looks like Sanford agrees with you because he got right up after the Lt. Gov had his little speech and sang a lovely rendition of “And I Am Telling You I’m Not Going.”

  19. 19
    JK says:

    @r€nato:

    What is it about the number 9? So much great music is connected to that number.

    9 was the title of albums by Fairport Convention and Public Image Limited
    One After 909 by the Beatles
    Number 9 Dream by John Lennon
    Nine to the Universe posthmous released Jimi Hendrix album
    If 6 was 9 by Jimi Hendrix
    Nine the Broadway musical

  20. 20
    BC says:

    {snark} In best c Street jargon – this must be a sign that Mark Sanford is God’s chosen: everytime his transgressions are out in public, God chooses to smite someone else and drive him out of the limelight. So, if you are really into the “God Chose Me Club”, this might just be confirmation.

  21. 21
    Ash Can says:

    Echoing several other commenters here, I believe that deserting one’s post is grounds for termination. Who he was screwing where, and what his marital status was while he was doing it, may make him a shitheel on a personal level, but if he can turn around and do a bang-up job as governor while he’s on the company clock, then there’s no real reason he shouldn’t stay in office. Where he hangs his hat on his own time — at home, in the garage, or under a bridge — is up to his wife, but he wasn’t hired by the voters to make her happy, he was hired to run the state. And, for six days, he wasn’t doing the job he was hired to do.

    For the same reason, I can understand Spitzer’s resignation, and unhappily agree with it. He was in a position of enforcing the law, and turned around and broke the law himself — albeit on his own time, but it strikes me as a fatal conflict nonetheless.

  22. 22
    geg6 says:

    @JGabriel:

    “Ugh. I can’t stand them. They were one of the reasons the Sex Pistols were necessary, IMO. Which, granted, is true of my opinion of prog rock in general (excepting King Crimson, who, of course, were really more avant-garde than prog anyway …).”

    Umm, the Sex Pistols? Sorry, no. There would have been no Sex Pistols without the most necessary band ever needed to wipe out the shitstain left by dreck like ELP, Styx, or Lynyrd Skynyrd…

    The Ramones.

  23. 23
    Stefan says:

    Personally, I don’t think Sanford should have to resign. He shouldn’t have left the state without telling anyone, obviously, and he did a little bit of travel on the taxpayer’s dime (but not all that much). But in the end, he was being forced out because he made an ass of himself in his personal life.

    I would perhaps agree with this….were it not for the fact that Sanford demanded that Clinton resign. He himself said that private infidelity was unacceptable in a public servant. Sanford is another one who seems to think that his high moral standards should apply to everyone but himself.

  24. 24
    General Winfield Stuck says:

    @JK:

    What is it about the number 9?

    Plan 9 From Outer Space

    Ed Wood’s greatest masterpiece, or one of many.

  25. 25
    JK says:

    @JGabriel:

    I might be the only person in the world who passionately loves Emerson, Lake, and Palmer, Yes, Jethro Tull, King Crimson, Genesis with Peter Gabriel, Pink Floyd, and Tangerine Dream on the one hand while also loving the Clash, the Ramones, the Sex Pistols, the Jam and the Damned on the other hand.

  26. 26
    Anne Laurie says:

    @JK: 99 Luftballoons?

  27. 27
    Calouste says:

    @JK:

    Swap out the Ramones for the Dead Kennedys and the Damned for Bad Religion and I’m with you.

  28. 28
    anonevent says:

    Sanford ran off and abdicated his responsibilities as governor, and spent taxpayer money to do it. These are what he should have to leave office over. I hope he stays on, just so he can get impeached and removed from office forcefully.

  29. 29
    General Winfield Stuck says:

    @Anne Laurie:

    99 Luftballoons?

    Or bottles of beer on the wall.

  30. 30
    Face says:

    Personally, I don’t think Sanford should have to resign.

    He’s not resigning

  31. 31
    ellaesther says:

    @Midnight Marauder: I came here to write essentially what you wrote! I’m a die-hard Democrat, but if the GOP wants to continue to swing its collective dick in the direction of anyone it fancies, that is up to it (them?) — or rather, it is a personal matter and none of my business. (Likewise the Democrats! Dicks for all!)

    But when the dick swinging involves the gross abdication of duty — even more than the spending of the public’s money — well then, the dick swinging is suddenly every bit my business, and absolutely “dictates that [the dick swinger] vacate his office as promptly as possible.”

    Or, in other words: This!

  32. 32
    Calouste says:

    @JK:

    Revolution number 9?

  33. 33
    MikeJ says:

    Sanford ran off and abdicated his responsibilities as governor, and spent taxpayer money to do it.

    And deprived us of a speech about cheechacos and sourdoughs.

  34. 34
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @r€nato:

    By the way, how come our so-called liberal media has never investigated why Client Number 9’s name is the only one which ever was publicly released? What about Client Numbers 1 through 8? What about 10 through X?
    Didn’t it ever seem odd to any of our noble journalists, that Client Number 9’s name was the only one which ever came out?

    This is probably the biggest element of the Spitzer “having no choice but to resign” travesty that pissed me off royally.

  35. 35
    melvin says:

    “He shouldn’t have left the state without telling anyone”

    He didn’t just leave the state, he left his job. No word, no contact. The automatic response from his office was to lie and cover.

    In what career is this acceptable?

  36. 36
    JK says:

    @General Winfield Stuck: @Anne Laurie: My very, very bad 99 Luftballoons is a kick ass song.

    @Calouste: I agree with you. I should have added the Dead Kennedys and Bad Religion to my previous post.

  37. 37
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @ellaesther:

    The entire narrative surrounding what Sanford did wrong is aggravating, IMO. That’s why you have idiots like Lindsey Graham saying:

    I think if Mark can reconcile with Jenny, and that’s not going to be easy, that he can finish his last 18 months.

    Who gives a shit if he can, wants to, or gives a flying fuck about getting back together with his wife. The infidelity is merely the catalyst for the larger issue of his extreme negligence in his post as governor.

  38. 38
    JGabriel says:

    JK:

    I might be the only person in the world who passionately loves [shitty prog bands and cool punk / new wave bands (editor’s summary)]

    Actually, JK, if I remember correctly, I’m pretty sure John Cole, our beloved host, shares the same lack of discrimination.

    .

  39. 39
    GReynoldsCT00 says:

    @Anne Laurie:

    Oh no, now that song is gonna be stuck in my head, and I hated it the first time around…

  40. 40
    JK says:

    Am I the only Balloon Juice reader who loves art rock and punk rock?

    Is it a crime to love Yours is no Disgrace (Yes) , Karne Evil Nine (ELP), and Thick as a Brick (Jethro Tull), and Low Spark of High Heeled Boys (Traffic) as much as Magnificent Seven (Clash), I Wanna Be Sedated (Ramones), Bodies (Sex Pistols), and The People Who Died (Jim Carroll)?

  41. 41
    DougJ says:

    What’s your beef with Amy Sullivan?

    Too much bullshit about how Democrats don’t love Jesus enough.

  42. 42
    DougJ says:

    Is it a crime to love Yours is no Disgrace (Yes) , Karne Evil Nine (ELP), and Thick as a Brick (Jethro Tull), and Low Spark of High Heeled Boys (Traffic) as much as Magnificent Seven (Clash), I Wanna Be Sedated (Ramones), Bodies (Sex Pistols), and The People Who Died (Jim Carroll)?

    I would say “yes” except for Low Spark, which is a good song.

  43. 43
    DougJ says:

    Spitzer had to go because the Republicans would have brought everything to a screeching halt in Albany.

    That’s not all of it. Democrats were happy to throw him under the bus too. He was going to try to change Albany and the higher-ups in neither party wanted that.

  44. 44
    R-Jud says:

    @MikeJ:

    And deprived us of a speech about cheechacos and sourdoughs.

    And a Shatner interpretation of same.

  45. 45
    JK says:

    @JGabriel:

    What you label lack of discrimation, I prefer to think of as having eclectic tastes.

    To invoke Walt Whitman, do I contradict myself by loving I Talk to the Wind (King Crimson) and London Calling (The Clash)? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes.

  46. 46
    scav says:

    Ok, as we’ve semi-evolved into up-or-down votes on music, if I were to throw out Bo Kaspers Orkester would I be off chattering at myself as per usual?

  47. 47
    SGEW says:

    @DougJ:

    What’s wrong with “The People Who Died”? It’s a pretty god damned potent song.

    And if you say anything against The Clash, we will have problems.

  48. 48
    djork says:

    JK,

    It’s all rock. No shame in liking good music, no matter who made it.

    And as a former Kakilackian, I think Sanford shoud stay in office, if only to hurt the GOP in the next election.

  49. 49
    NonyNony says:

    Personally, I don’t think Sanford should have to resign.

    Me neither. He should be impeached through whatever process the legislature has to go about impeaching a governor with whatever charges they can bring.

    If the man actually did commit fraud and waste of the taxpayers’ money, he should be impeached for it. If he actually did abdicate his responsibilities as governor and leave the state in a lurch, he should be impeached for it. If it’s not worth impeaching him over, then it should be dropped and the voters can decide the next time he’s up for an election if they think he’s the kind of guy they want representing them.

  50. 50
    General Winfield Stuck says:

    @JK:

    Is it a crime

    Yes, but only a d class felony.

  51. 51
    DougJ says:

    What’s wrong with “The People Who Died”? It’s a pretty god damned potent song.

    Yes, that’s why it shouldn’t be mentioned alongside Jethro Tull.

  52. 52
    Dave C says:

    OT: I’ve got a request for y’all. My sister has a co-worker who works with insurance companies that told her today that if the House Bill version of health care reform passes it may drive the private health insurance companies out of business (whether this would be due to the presence of the Public Option or because of the regulations that are part of the bill, I’m not clear on). This would, according to my sister’s colleague, leave us with a de facto single payer system.

    Now I’m quite sure that this claim is bullshit, but I would like to provide my sister with some evidence from relatively reliable sources as to why it is bullshit. So far, I have not found anything to specifically counter this claim. Can anybody here help me?

  53. 53
    SGEW says:

    @DougJ: Oh. Rightyo, then. Carry on.

  54. 54
    JK says:

    @DougJ:
    I very rarely read Amy Sullivan so I wasn’t aware of that. That’s reason enough for me to dislkie her already.

    @DougJ: Appreciate your thumbs up for The Low Spark of High Heeled Boys.

    Maybe there should be a Balloon Juice Beer Summit down the road between an art rock fan and a punk rock fan. I’ve never understood why each side can’t acknowledge that equally brilliant and timeless masterpieces have been created in both genres.

  55. 55
    cleek says:

    @JK:

    listening to “The Court Of The Crimson King” right now.

    i think the Clash are overrated, but i do own a few of their albums. i much prefer the Ramones (and Talking Heads and Television)

  56. 56
    Joshua Norton says:

    isn’t the Lt. Gov., who would presumably take Sanford’s place, both wingnuttier than Sanford and rumored to be gay?

    He’s sort of denied it, but methinks he’s not gay the same way Michelle Bachmann is not batshit crazy.

  57. 57
    JGabriel says:

    @JK:

    Am I the only Balloon Juice reader who loves art rock and punk rock?

    No, not at all, but you’re conflating art rock and prog rock, which are different things.

    Art Rock = Capt. Beefheart, Velvet Underground, Zappa, Bowie, Eno, etc.

    Prog Rock = Yes, ELP, Tull, Kansas, Moody Blues, etc.

    King Crimson and Genesis (when Peter Gabriel was in it) were both prog and art rock, or, perhaps more accurately, were art rock bands that appropriated prog rock forms.

    .

  58. 58
    General Winfield Stuck says:

    @DougJ:

    Yes, that’s why it shouldn’t be mentioned alongside Jethro Tull.

    May your Camel get homesick. Blasphemer!

  59. 59
    ellaesther says:

    @Midnight Marauder: I’ve found myself thinking a lot today about the fact on the generally right side of the map, people are much more concerned with individual, one-on-one behavior, certainly of well-known figures (in this case a politician), whereas on the generally left side of the map, we are much more concerned about behavior that effects a broader swath of society (one man’s apology for his infidelity, or [say] one woman’s abortion, vs. the abandoning of public responsibility in pursuit of that infidelity, or [say] sex education programs). Not a brilliant insight, I realize, but it keeps coming up for me. And bugging the crap out of me.

  60. 60
    grimc says:

    Another +1 for Midnight Marauder. I agree that the personal peccadilloes of a chief executive shouldn’t merit being tossed out of office, but Sanford should be booted for abandoning his state (and during, IIRC, hurricane season). That’s what the SC GOP should be kicking him out for. Wrong reason, valid aim.

  61. 61
    freelancer says:

    @grimc:

    rated comment FAIL.

    Apparently you are not aware of all internet traditions.

  62. 62
    JK says:

    @cleek:

    Many Thanks for Television reference. To me Venus by Televison, I Talk to the Wind by King Crimson and Joe’s Garage by Frank Zappa are 3 the most underrated and underappreciated, and overlooked songs in rock history.

  63. 63
    JGabriel says:

    @JK:

    Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes.

    Heh, like I said, to each their own. Can I respect other people’s taste in music while at the same time not wanting to listen to and being obnoxiously elitist about their taste? So be it, I too am large (and growing perplexingly larger each year) and contain multitudes.

    .

  64. 64
    JGabriel says:

    @scav:

    if I were to throw out Bo Kaspers Orkester would I be off chattering at myself as per usual?

    Yes, at least in my case, but I’m usually pretty open to music I haven’t heard of before, especially if it’s either straight out weird or pop/rock like but somehow different than usual.

    .

  65. 65
    scav says:

    @JGabriel: Oh, this is getting complex. Art / Prog / Punk and what happens if they’re really under pressure to get the album out – do they get all metamorphic or something? Little sparkly bits of quartz appear? Or does that last only happen in Peter Gabriel is present? What if I try to substitute David Byrne?

  66. 66
    geg6 says:

    JK @39: Yes. And yes. ;-)

  67. 67
    wobbly says:

    Actually, D.C Wonkette did out some of the other clients, one of whom was a titled Brit, as I recall, and he was getting much more expensive service than our miserly former Governor.

    I, for one, don’t want Spitzer back. He PICKED Paterson, didn’t he?

    How smart was that?

  68. 68
    JGabriel says:

    @SGEW:

    What’s wrong with “The People Who Died”?

    I think it was Tull attack there, SGEW, not Jim Carroll. People Who Died (there is no “the” in the title) is great song.

    .

  69. 69
    Calouste says:

    @Dave C:

    The UK has private health insurance companies, amongst them Bupa.

    The Dutch system is single payer run through private health insurance companies, as is I believe the Swiss.

    But yes, the public option will drive health insurance companies out of business whose sole business model is to take 20-30% of the premiums and kick out any people who claim more than a few thousand a year. They might actually have to work for their money and provide proper service.

  70. 70
    geg6 says:

    Did my eyes deceive me or did someone here semi-bash The Clash? Blasphemy! May you always take the train in vain.

  71. 71
    Kirk Spencer says:

    @Dave C: No, it won’t drive them out of business.

    Now, it might hurt them depending on which of the house versions’ rules for how premiums for the public option are set. In one version the set is based on whatever the private insurances are setting – in which case it won’t hurt them at all. In this version if you’re making below a certain magic number you get a discount, but for most people it won’t matter.

    In the other version the premiums are set by a market analysis fairly similar to what is used for medicaid and medicare. In this case the premiums will be lower, but not uncompetitively lower.

    What will most likely happen in this case is that the insurance companies will work to cut customers who are high-payout. Those people will end up on the public option. The low-payout people who were kept will get to pay the new rates that are comparable to public option rates, but since their payouts are so much smaller the insurance companies continue to profit.

    The other place insurance companies will be able to grab customers is for ‘extra’ services – much as AFLAC has done by providing insurance for the gaps (covering the large deductible for hospital stays, for example). In this case it’ll be for guaranteed private rooms or experimental treatments or cosmetic surgeries or additional in-home treatments or, well, there are a lot of options that are not going to be available in the public option. (Heck, I anticipate a special policy just to allow abortion services ‘just in case’, as I really don’t think the public option will wind up covering that.)

    Will the bill cut business as it’s done now? Yes. Will it put the insurance companies out of business? No.

  72. 72
    JK says:

    @JGabriel:

    This is a very interesting post. We clearly have our differences, but I think there’s more music that we both like than you might think. I think of Bowie first and foremost as glam rock and I don’t consider glam rock and art rock to be synonymous.

    I don’t recall your music related comments from past threads, but I take it that your bottom line is this and please correct me if I’m misstating your postion

    Art Rock = Good music
    Prog Rock = Horrible music

    This may surprise you. I happen to be a big fan of Beefheart, Velvet Underground, Zappa, Bowie, and Eno. I’m thumbs down on Kansas and the Moody Blues.

    I appreciate your passion on music which seems to equal my own.

  73. 73
    Dreggas says:

    @DougJ:

    just when I think california is the most fucked up place in the country, i call my parents and listen to them bitch about how bad NY is.

  74. 74
    Mike in NC says:

    Sanford ran off and abdicated his responsibilities as governor, and spent taxpayer money to do it. These are what he should have to leave office over. I hope he stays on, just so he can get impeached and removed from office forcefully.

    The SC House is supposed to meet to vote on impeachment soon. Won’t be long until Sanford’s going to look like a palmetto bug trapped in a corner. Bring on the popcorn.

  75. 75
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @ellaesther:

    Yeah, that’s a pretty astute insight. I’ve also found it interesting how most conservatives focus on his failings as an individual (husband, father, guardian of all that is pure and moral and warm and fuzzy, etc.), while being unable to see that the actual issue is his failure as the chief executive officer of the state.

    Mark Sanford – husband, father, lover of Argentinean women: I could not care less about.

    Mark Sanford – MIA and negligent Governor of South Carolina: Yeah, I’m watching your ass like a hawk on a cliffside ready to swoop down and snatch some hapless little rabbit at any given moment.

  76. 76
    binzinerator says:

    @JK:

    Is it a crime to love…Yes,…ELP,…Jethro Tull, and …Traffic

    If it isn’t it should be.

  77. 77
    scav says:

    @JGabriel: You’ve heard of them! Ha! I’ve no clue what to call what they’ve got in 8 or Hund – Earlier stuff seems to be jazz-y or samba-y but now I don’t know what to call it. Granted, my points of comparison involve Bach, Pergliosi, Warren Zevon and Dire Straits so I’m at a bit of a loss for where to look for similar stuff.

  78. 78
    JGabriel says:

    @Dave C:

    My sister has a co-worker … that told her … that if the House Bill version of health care reform passes it may drive the private health insurance companies out of business … . [leaving] us with a de facto single payer system. Now I’m quite sure that this claim is bullshit, but I would like to provide my sister with some evidence from relatively reliable sources as to why it is bullshit. … Can anybody here help me?

    It’s not complete bullshit. If a public health insurance option is both cheaper and provides better care than commercial insurance, then yes, people would eventually flock to it and when most of them were using the public option, it would be a de facto single payer program.

    IF the commercial insurers can’t compete with the government.

    If, on the other hand, the free market is always the best solution, then the private commercial insurers should have no problem competing against the government, and have nothing to fear.

    So, the problem isn’t that a public insurance option might lead to single-payer. The problem is why is your sister so afraid of it? And why are the insurers so, um, sure, that they can’t compete?

    .

  79. 79
    JK says:

    @scav:

    The other complication is the huge genre referred to as psychedelic rock. As I wrote, I liked JGabriel’s post and thought it raised good points.

    I suspect though that there many people who would take issue with who should be classified as art rock, prog rock, or psychedelic rock. As JGabriel accurately stated, some bands like Genesis and King Crimson straddle the fence.

  80. 80
    geg6 says:

    OT: Ed Schultz is showing a great floor speech by Ted where he is in high dudgeon, shouting at the Goopers “What is it about about working people that you find so offensive??” It was awesome.

  81. 81
    Calouste says:

    @scav:

    That’s when you get Public Image Ltd.

  82. 82
    geg6 says:

    Personally (and I’ll probably get pummelled on this), I’d add ABC to that awesome glam rock pantheon. And for an American twist on the genre, The Tubes. Who were, incidentally, fucking kick ass live.

  83. 83
    Fern says:

    @geg6:

    There is also the unseemliness of the guy who would replace Sanford being the guy calling for his replacement.

  84. 84
    Leelee for Obama says:

    I’m not sure if my fellow (former) New Yorkers want Spitzer back, but it needs to be said that Eliot was ruined because he was spilling beans all over the place about the coming Wall Street debacle and who (WH) was responsible. He must have been shtupping hookers before last year, right? And lots of people likely knew, right? So why right after his Op-Ed on the mortgage mess to come was he suddenly Client # 9 in and investigation. Please, spare me the dumb-luckitude of that assumption.

  85. 85
    SGEW says:

    @geg6:

    Did my eyes deceive me or did someone here semi-bash The Clash?

    Well, technically Cleek said that The Clash was “overrated,” and I’m inclined to agree . . . if that “rating” is that they’re the greatest thing that as ever happened to the ears of human beings, ever ever. That would be overrating them. A bit.

    Also, @Calouste with the PiL reference ftw.

  86. 86
    JK says:

    @geg6:

    You can’t say glam rock without mentioning Roxy Music.

    Virginia Palin – Roxy Music
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USJq2RwnlyU

    The Soundtrack for Velvet Goldmine is one of the most kickass soundteracks I know off.

  87. 87
    geg6 says:

    Fer,: Well,yes, that’s true. But Sanford was grossly negligent in his duties as governor, not to mention using the public dime in a big way to get laid (flights to Argentina are way more out of the coffers of a not-too-well-off state like SC than, say, a limo ride to the fancy whorehouse on the other side of town).

  88. 88
    gwangung says:

    My sister has a co-worker … that told her … that if the House Bill version of health care reform passes it may drive the private health insurance companies out of business … . [leaving] us with a de facto single payer system. Now I’m quite sure that this claim is bullshit, but I would like to provide my sister with some evidence from relatively reliable sources as to why it is bullshit. … Can anybody here help me?

    Well, first of all, SHE has to explain how it would do so.

    Really, you can design a version of reform that would absolutely guaruntee to run out of business even the best run, most efficient insurance business. You can also have a version that would take only the least profitable and do nothing to the insurance companies.

    The devil’s in the details; you just can’t drive companies out of business just by the mere existence of a public option–other countries are the proof of that. Have her explain HOW…and you might get somewhere.

  89. 89
    r€nato says:

    …and now Dominick Dunne has died.

    What the fuck? Did the Grim Reaper suddenly take an interest in celebrity death pools?

  90. 90
    Laura W says:

    @r€nato: That’s a bit freaky synchronistic given his connections to the Kennedy “indiscretions”.

  91. 91
    cleek says:

    if that “rating” is that they’re the greatest thing that as ever happened to the ears of human beings, ever ever.

    oh i’d dial that back quite a few notches.

    fer fuck’s sake, “Lost In The Supermarket” alone should disqualify them from being discussed in polite company.

    ok… i kid. they’re alright. hugely influential (the Brits are still churning out Clash sound-alikes), of course. but i shake my fist at any list which puts London Calling ahead of Kind Of Blue or Blue or Are You Experienced.

  92. 92
    r€nato says:

    Hi Laura!

  93. 93
    WereBear says:

    Love The Tubes.

    Now that’s stuff I don’t mind running through my head.

    It seems self-evident to me. You don’t get to be Governor of a state and treat it like a self-indulgent parent. A spoiled frat boy can run off on Mom’s gold card, leaving no word where they are, and skip all their finals in the process.

    But he’s not a child. He is supposed to be in charge of a state. Spending all their money to have affairs, taking off on a whim, and not leaving a chain of responsibility behind; god yes, he should be impeached, and do time for spending so much of the state’s money on himself.

    On what planet is that kind of thing okay?

  94. 94
    geg6 says:

    Ok, that was meant for Fern, not Fer;. Damn. Oh, and thanks to SGEW for the lolz. And also to JK for amending that glam rock list. The only explanation for how I could leave out Roxy Music is my advancing age. But I still rock out to these guys, just like I did when I first saw Bowie at the Syria Mosque in the Oakland section of the ‘Burgh back in 1973. It was my 15th birthday and the Spiders From Mars rocked my world.

  95. 95
    JGabriel says:

    JK:

    I take it that your bottom line is this and please correct me if I’m misstating your postion: Art Rock = Good music; Prog Rock = Horrible music

    Close, but that’s not actually the distinguishing factor. Prog rock is more likely to have classical references, and to be pretentious without having any actual, or interesting, pretensions; art rock tends towards the modernist – as for glam, I consider it subset of art rock, punk too, mostly – and art rock also frequently, though not necessarily, features the presence of people who went to, well, art school, like Eno, Gabriel, all of Talking Heads, McLaren, etc.

    .

  96. 96
    mai naem says:

    @r€nato:
    Okay, I know I am not supposed to say anything negative about dead people but I got tired of seeing Dominick Dunne on every murdered celebrity/celebrity murderer talking head circus. I know his daughter was killed but it was an awfully close to Fred Goldman who I loathe.

    Back to Spitzer. What I find amazing is that Spitzer was being tailed by the FBI at the hotel in D.C. while his own security detail was sitting outside his hotel room. That just doesn’t make sense.

  97. 97
    JK says:

    @cleek:
    “London Calling, Kind Of Blue, Blue, Are You Experienced” 4 truly kickass masterpieces.

    Cleek, aren’t you the same person who once mentioned Barry Manilow and King Crimson in the same sentence? Talk about cognitive dissonance.

  98. 98
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @mai naem:

    Back to Spitzer. What I find amazing is that Spitzer was being tailed by the FBI at the hotel in D.C. while his own security detail was sitting outside his hotel room. That just doesn’t make sense.

    It does if he was a marked man.

  99. 99
    r€nato says:

    @mai naem:

    what’s your beef with Fred Goldman?

  100. 100
    Leelee for Obama says:

    @mai naem: National Security Letters, perhaps? God, I hate it when I get all conspiratorial and stuff!

  101. 101
    JGabriel says:

    cleek:

    I shake my fist at any list which puts London Calling ahead of Kind Of Blue or Blue or Are You Experienced.

    Agreed, though I don’t know why you would take a Rolling Stone list seriously. They haven’t been critically relevant since, what, somewhere between the late 70’s and the mid 80’s? The Voice, while not perfect, has been my goto place for critic’s lists until recently.

    .

  102. 102
    grimc says:

    @freelancer:

    I assure you I am indeed aware of all internet traditions, at least as far as knowing where “I am aware of all internet traditions” comes from. That, and the Ally McBeal dancing baby. Anything outside of that isn’t tradition, but heresy.

  103. 103
    JK says:

    @JGabriel:

    Thanks very much for your clarification. Is there any prog rock album or song that you would admit to enjoying?

  104. 104
    r€nato says:

    @wobbly:

    good on Wonkette, but that’s not exactly the same as, say, the New York fucking Times doing its fucking job covering its own fucking ex-governor and how it was that only Spitzer’s name was leaked and who made sure that happened and why.

  105. 105
    geg6 says:

    JGabriel: I would accept your definition of art rock. I’m finding this conversation a very interesting one that makes me examine my own musical evolution in taste. As a youngster in the ’60s with many older siblings, I tended to like bluesy stuff, like Atlantic soul and the Stones. In my early teens, I was a fanatical glam rocker. By my sophomore/junior year in high school, I turned into a punk. I haven’t ever really gotten over that one and it’s why I am happy to see Green Day doing so well these days as they are the only ones out there in he big leagues still out there. I listen to lots of stuff now, but punk will be the soundtrack at my wake.

  106. 106
    MikeJ says:

    The Voice, while not perfect, has been my goto place for critic’s lists until recently.

    Meh. I’m a rockist, so I don’t count.

  107. 107
    JD Rhoades says:

    @JK:

    No you’re not. And I need an extra hand for Lucinda Williams, John Prine, Gillian Welch and the Dixie Chicks.

  108. 108
    Docrailgun says:

    If this weren’t a “family values” stalwart, he’d get a pass from me. But if a demolslamocommiefascistsocialistpinko had done this, there would be riots in the streets.

  109. 109
    Laura W says:

    @r€nato: Hi Renato! You should see my bedroom wall! Er…

    Re: Fred Goldman…I have a “Thank You” card from the Ron Goldman Justice Fund in my Very Special Treasure Box still to this day for a contribution I made waaaaaaay back when. Very few things move in (or out) of that sacred holding place, but for whatever reasons, that mattered to me.

    And just because this thread started me tripping on high school music and my very fave ELP song:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjxOwaCljrw

  110. 110
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @r€nato:

    good on Wonkette, but that’s not exactly the same as, say, the New York fucking Times doing its fucking job covering its own fucking ex-governor and how it was that only Spitzer’s name was leaked and who made sure that happened and why.

    My thoughts exactly.

  111. 111
    geg6 says:

    Laura W.: If we’re going to be subjected to ELP, the least you could do is counteract it with some of that art rock that some of us prefer. ;-)

  112. 112
    JK says:

    @JD Rhoades:

    So, you enjoy both prog rock and punk rock? Glad to make your acquaintance. I think we’re an endangered species.

  113. 113
    r€nato says:

    @Laura W: *blush*

  114. 114
    JGabriel says:

    JK:

    Is there any prog rock album or song that you would admit to enjoying?

    Well, King Crimson obviously. Also, some Blue Oyster Cult. Not a lot is coming to mind, though. I don’t like Rush, but I don’t feel as compelled to mock it when it comes on as I do ELP or Yes.

    Frankly, most of my favorite artists are from the 80’s and later. Like The Replacements, Pavement, Yo La Tengo, New Order, Neko Case / New Pornographers, etc., or people whose work continued into that era, like Costello, Joni Mitchell, Van Morrison, Prince, Tom Waits, etc.

    .

    .

  115. 115
    Mr Furious says:

    Now, if that was Lt. Governor Andre Braugher, it’d be a movement I could get behind!

  116. 116
  117. 117
    JGabriel says:

    @Laura W:

    … my very fave ELP song:

    Definitely NOT clicking on that link …

    .

  118. 118
    Laura W says:

    @JGabriel: Well that’s a darn shame there, then.
    I was just about to grow overly fond of you.

    Costello, Joni Mitchell, Van Morrison

    You have issues with my musical tastes? Or did I miss the part upthread where you hate ELP?

  119. 119
    geg6 says:

    Laura W: You are the best! Gawd, Brian Ferry was one hot tamale, wasn’t he? Yummy.

  120. 120
    r€nato says:

    @JGabriel: I don’t know how you could mention the 80s without bringing up The Smiths.

    I came of age in the 80s and I pretty much consider the 80s a musical wasteland with the following exceptions:

    The Smiths
    New Order
    The Replacements
    Prince

    (many of the bands usually associated with the 80s, like The Police and Talking Heads, are really late 70s bands as far as I am concerned…)

  121. 121
    JGabriel says:

    @Laura W:

    Gladly.

    THAT, on the other hand, was a very sweet link. Thanks, haven’t heard that one in a while.

    .

  122. 122
    cleek says:

    Cleek, aren’t you the same person who once mentioned Barry Manilow and King Crimson in the same sentence?

    yup. but only to note that Manilow’s graphic designer is obviously a Crimson fan.

    And I need an extra hand for Lucinda Williams, John Prine, Gillian Welch and the Dixie Chicks.

    fifteen thumbs up for Gillian. five for Prine. three each for the Chicks and Lucinda.

  123. 123
    JK says:

    @JGabriel:

    My favorite artists are from the late 1960’s, but as I mentioned previously I truly love the Clash, Sex Pistols, and Ramones. Am also a big fan of U2, REM, the Police, Steely Dan, Little Feat, and the Pretenders

    Long live King Crimson.

    I’m with you regarding Costello, Joni Mitchell, Van Morrison, Prince, Tom Waits (sometimes Waits’ vocals do get on my nerves), The Replacements and New Order.

    I haven’t heard enough of Pavement, Yo La Tengo, Neko Case / New Pornographers to have an opinion one way or the other.

    I don’t like anything by Blue Oyster Cult and like some Rush.

  124. 124
    Midnight Marauder says:

    What an odd thread this has become.

  125. 125
    Laura W says:

    @geg6: Slurp.
    And because I am a contemporary of yours (and stop calling us “OLD”, damn you!) who adored Bowie but never saw him live, I’ll see you your Bowie concert and raise you an Alice Cooper, circa 1973, at the LA Forum!

  126. 126
    JGabriel says:

    Laura W:

    Or did I miss the part upthread where you hate ELP?

    Heh. Yes, that.

    r€nato:

    many of the bands usually associated with the 80s, like The Police and Talking Heads, are really late 70s bands as far as I am concerned…

    Point taken. Instead of saying “80s or later”, I should have said post ’76, i.e., post punk.

    .

  127. 127
    cleek says:

    … also Alison Krauss

    I came of age in the 80s and I pretty much consider the 80s a musical wasteland with the following exceptions:

    all fine choices. you also need to add:
    Sonic Youth
    Pixies
    Cure
    Police
    Beasties
    REM
    U2
    Peter Gabriel’s solo career
    Big Black
    Minor Threat
    Dino Jr
    YLT
    Cowboy Junkies
    Soundgarden
    Bauhaus
    Robyn Hitchcock
    and countless others

  128. 128
    geg6 says:

    JK: I’d take an eternity of ELP if I never had to listen to Rush or a Rush fan extolling their completely hidden virtues ever again. They get my vote for worst band ever. I’d take the Bay City fucking Rollers over Rush.

  129. 129
    JGabriel says:

    @cleek:

    fifteen thumbs up for Gillian. five for Prine. three each for the Chicks and Lucinda.

    Ditto, but fifteen for Lucinda too.

    .

  130. 130
    JGabriel says:

    Sonic Youth
    Pixies
    Cure
    Police
    Beasties
    REM
    U2
    Peter Gabriel’s solo career
    Big Black
    Minor Threat
    Dino Jr
    YLT
    Cowboy Junkies
    Soundgarden
    Bauhaus
    Robyn Hitchcock

    Yep. Not so much a wasteland really, except for commercial radio which really was execrable in the 80’s. Speaking of Hitchcock, maybe I’ll listen to “I Often Dream of Trains” tonight. Haven’t given that a spin lately…

    .

  131. 131
    JGabriel says:

    Midnight Marauder:

    What an odd thread this has become.

    True. I think we all needed a break from the depressing Kennedy death and the winger Kennedy bashing.

    .

  132. 132
    JK says:

    @geg6:

    The only Rush songs I know are those I’ve heard on the radio. When I said I liked some Rush, I should have been more specific and said I liked Spirit of Radio and Limelight.

    My vote for worst band ever would be a toss-up between the Cars, Aerosmith, REO Speedwagon, and Styx.

  133. 133
    Mike in NC says:

    Virginia Palin – Roxy Music

    “http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USJq2RwnlyU”

    I thought WTF until I clicked on the link…

  134. 134
    freelancer says:

    @JK:

    Wow, you guys don’t know lowball at all.

    Nickelback and Creed.

    I win.

  135. 135
    geg6 says:

    Laura W: I’ll see you with Alice Cooper at Three Rivers Stadium in 1973. And raise you with the Ramones, Blondie, and the Talking Heads in 1978 at CBGBs. My boyfriend was a guitar player who became a photographer in NY. His father was wealthy and we went to every concert in Pittsburgh and many in other places from about 1973 until about 1981 because money was never an issue. He’d fly me into NY just to see a great show. I should have married him. Or something.

  136. 136
    General Winfield Stuck says:

    @JGabriel:

    Ditto, but fifteen for Lucinda too.

    Here is one we can agree on.

  137. 137
    JK says:

    @Midnight Marauder: @JGabriel:

    I’ll plead guilty. I was giving a shout out to Alan who mentioned ELP. I was seconding his opinon of them as a talented band. I then asked if there is an existential dilemma for someone who derives equally great pleasure from listening to both prog rock and punk rock.

    Guess what number Alan’s post was? NUMBER 9

    @Mike in NC:

    Did you like Virginia Plain. I can’t tell from your post.

  138. 138
    Laura W says:

    @cleek:

    … also Alison Krauss

    I never tire of this CD. The irony is, I really found nothing interesting or special about her when I first encountered her. “Sweet and Simple” I believe I called her. She is truly an acquired taste…so subtle, yet invasive. And now I’m addicted to her.

    This one is on my iPod and came on during my trail hike today. Kills me:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmsqOSfpSfI

  139. 139
    SGEW says:

    But everyone knows that [my favorite musical group] is infinitely better than [your favorite musical group]! Just as [my local sports team] is superior to [your local sports team]!

    So saying, I can’t believe that Cleek is bad mouthing The Clash but gives thumbs up to the god damned Dixie Chicks (I nearly ended a serious relationship halfway through a road trip because I called the Dixie Chicks “puerile trash” and my partner called Fugazi “just noise.” Voices were raised. Emotions ran high.)

    And yet Cleek also lists Minor Threat?! How can Minor Threat and the Dixie Chicks coexist in your world?!? (boggle boggle)

    Oh well. How many times a day can I say de gustibus etc. etc.?

  140. 140
    r€nato says:

    @cleek:

    OK you’re right, the 80s weren’t as awful as it’s fashionable to say they were. I still say you can name three great 90s bands for every 80s band on that list…

    Maybe what I meant was, the 80s were chock-full of really execrable bands and performers whose music definitely looks pretty silly in retrospect and has not aged well at all. Haircut 100, anyone? Flock of Seagulls? The Fixx?

    Bleahhhh. I’m going to go stick a safety pin through my nose and crank up Subhumans to 11.

  141. 141
    r€nato says:

    @SGEW: My choice of computer operating system is the bestest ever! Your choice of computer operating system sucks and you’re stupid and a loser for using it!!!

  142. 142
    handy says:

    @SGEW:

    Ahem…lemme try this here:


    Thou shalt not put musicians and recording artists on ridiculous pedestals no matter how great they are or were.
    The Beatles… Were just a band.
    Led Zepplin… Just a band.
    The Beach Boys… Just a band.
    The Sex Pistols… Just a band.
    The Clash… Just a band.
    Crass… Just a band.
    Minor Threat… Just a band.
    The Cure… Just a band.
    The Smiths… Just a band.
    Nirvana… Just a band.
    The Pixies… Just a band.
    Oasis… Just a band.
    Radiohead… Just a band.
    Bloc Party… Just a band.
    The Arctic Monkeys… Just a band.
    The Next Big Thing.. JUST A BAND.

    And that’s all I gotta say about that.

  143. 143
    geg6 says:

    SGEW: But my favorite band IS infinitely better than anyone else’s! And my favorite sports IS the best team evah! Witness their six Lombardi trophies and the undying love of our overlord, John Cole. As for Cleek preferring the Dixie Chicks over The Clash, everyone has their flaws and blind spots. Some of my best friends are Yankee fans, but I try not to mock them too much since I am fond of them. So, too, with Cleek in this instance.

  144. 144
    JK says:

    @SGEW:

    You’ve got to admit it’s lots of fun. I enjoy it when someone says I hate psychedelic, prog, punk, or art rock, but I like this artist, album, or song from that genre. The above sentence was not meant in any way to mock or disparage. I mean that I just find it interesting to see what concession or exception to a rule a person is willing to give to a musical genre that I passionately embrace.

  145. 145
    AhabTRuler says:

    I think that both Television, referenced before, and Gang of Four are both bands that produced phenomenal first albums that were raw and under-produced, but following productions never managed to capture either bands energy as well.

    Suicide’s second album, however, is an often overlooked work of mad genius. Try this.

  146. 146
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @JGabriel:

    True. I think we all needed a break from the depressing Kennedy death and the winger Kennedy bashing.

    Co-sign. Also, I’m going to have to throw my hat in the ring with those saying that The Clash bashing is simply ridiculous.

    And with those saying that the 80s weren’t as big a musical wasteland as most people make them out to be.

  147. 147
    wasabi gasp says:

    Whenever I see these threads of peeps posting lists of their most favoritest bands evah, one thing becomes clear: the powers of Robert Plant’s nipples have expired.

  148. 148
    r€nato says:

    @r€nato: for that matter…

    Billy Squier
    Loverboy
    Berlin
    Every single hair band of the 80s. Doubleplusungood if said band is still touring and/or recording (looking at you, Ratt and Warrant and Poison)
    Every single boy band of the 80s
    Stryper (deserves its own dishonorable mention for combining two of the worst musical genres ever, Christian rock and hair band rock)
    Survivor

    BTW your ‘great 80s bands/artists’ list is missing Stevie Ray Vaughan.

  149. 149
    geg6 says:

    Midnight Marauder: no, the mid- to late 70s were the true musical wasteland with the only really great music coming from the glam and ounk rock scenes.

  150. 150
    SGEW says:

    I’m just gonna jump in and share my musical dogma with y’all:

    Never trust a band that’s named after a place.

    Boston. Europe. Asia. Alabama. Kansas. Chicago. And, by association, Journey.

    Need I say more?

  151. 151
    DougJ says:

    Boston. Europe. Asia. Alabama. Kansas. Chicago. And, by association, Journey.

    I agree. But I also believe that “Heart of Rock n’ Roll” notwithstanding, songs generally benefit from the mention of place names.

  152. 152
    r€nato says:

    I kinda like Boston. But, that third album was in no way worth waiting 10 years or whatever for.

    Europe – I consider them a one hit wonder more than a sucky band. Then again, I never listened to anything but their one hit. They might truly suck but they never had enough of a career to really consider them outside of the ‘one-hit-wonder’ category AFAIAC.

    Asia – teh suck.

    Likewise Alabama, Kansas, and Chicago. Does Styx count? It’s a mythical place… but it’s still a place!

    The Sopranos has redeemed Don’t Stop Believin’ for me. Otherwise, I cringe whenever I am subjected to Steve Perry’s nasal whine.

  153. 153
    r€nato says:

    @DougJ: wow how could we have forgotten Huey Lewis? Good god. If terrorists are fated to successfully attack America again by plunging an airplane into something, I hope it’s a Huey Lewis concert with every single one of their remaining fans in attendance.

    And he’s a 70s act not 80s and I risk offending some folks here who might like him, but 2nd on that list would be Jimmy Buffett and his fans. BLEAAAAAGH RETCH PUKE

    If I am ever again dragged to a Buffett concert, I think I will end up a cutter for the rest of my life.

  154. 154
    JD Rhoades says:

    @JK:

    I think we’re an endangered species.

    Don’t worry. I found another of our kind and we’ve reproduced.

  155. 155
    JK says:

    @SGEW:

    Have to strongly disagree with the inclusion of Chicago on your list.

    Questions 67 & 68
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3NMszrfjio

    Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related

    I’d put Chicago’s debut album Chicago Transit Authority right up there alongside some of the other great albums released in 1969

    Tommy – The Who
    In the Court of the Crimson King – King Crimson
    Nashville Skyline – Bob Dylan
    Hot Rats – Frank Zappa
    Abbey Road – The Beatles
    Aoxomoxoa – Grateful Dead
    Blind Faith – Blind Faith
    Crosby, Stills & Nash – Crosby, Stills & Nash
    Clouds – Joni Mitchell
    Everybody Knows This is Nowhere – Neil Young
    Goodbye – Cream
    Let It Bleed – The Rolling Stones
    Led Zeppelin – Led Zeppelin

  156. 156
    Corner Stone says:

    Caveman Bangs Two Rocks Against the Wall, anyone?

  157. 157
    JK says:

    @JK: @SGEW:

    Forgot to mention Jimi Hendrix was a huge fan of Chicago guitarist Terry Kath. Chicago was the opening act for one of Hendrix’s final concert performances.

    Read a quote somewhere from a sound engineer who rocked with virtually every major artist from the 1960’s. He said that, in terms of live performance, no bands could equal The Who and Chicago.

  158. 158
    r€nato says:

    Let It Bleed is so fucking awesome.

    Just had to say that…

  159. 159
    r€nato says:

    also left off the 80s best bands list:

    Depeche Mode.

  160. 160
    JK says:

    @JK:

    Meant to write sound engineer who WORKED, but he clearly felt that no other bands rocked the way the Who and Chicago did in concert.

    Chicago descended into commericial pop, but they started out rock oriented.

  161. 161
    MikeJ says:

    But I also believe that “Heart of Rock n’ Roll” notwithstanding, songs generally benefit from the mention of place names.

    You have to hope that the Standells didn’t get screwed and are still cleaning up because of this theory.

  162. 162
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @JK:

    I think you got it right the first time.

  163. 163
    cleek says:

    As for Cleek preferring the Dixie Chicks over The Clash

    i never said that. frankly i can take or leave them both. but the Chicks get props for dissin Bush and for stickin it out through the backlash.

    here’s my problem with the clash: ever since i was 7 or 8, they have been hailed by the music press as the Gods of Punk, the bringers of the new music, the saviors of rock, etc.. even today, you can find a special on some cable network telling the history of punk – it’ll be the clash, the pistols and the ramones.

    so, for the next ten years, i grow up hearing how the clash are the icons of this stuff called “punk”, this sometimes-violent, aggressive, subversive rebellious angry music which changed the world, yadayadayada. and i see pictures of “punks”, with their safety pins and their mohawks and their bad-ass attitudes. and when i’m finally old enough to be interested in the kind of stuff that makes people dye their hair purple, i decide i’m going to give the clash a listen, because i’ve worn out the sabbath-metal and the speed metal, the hard rock, the new wave, the pistols all the other things a rebellious 15 year old wants to listen to. and what do i hear?

    i hear pop songs. i hear songs that wouldn’t piss-off my grandmother. i hear things that approach disco. i hear silly lyrics and wimpy guitars, all kinds of simple major-chord sing-along stuff, faux-reggae, etc.. i think “WTF? this isn’t what i’ve been told ‘punk’ was all about. there are dozens of bands that do everything the clash are supposed to be about, and do it better.”

    that was Combat Rock.

    so, i give it a few more years and decide i’ll give them another chance. my college roommate and i had been listening to Sonic Youth, Ministry, Slayer, Pixies, Fugazi, and it was good. but we are musical omnivores and always looking for more. and, we realize, when Rolling Stone said was the best album of the 80s, that we’d never heard this legendary London Calling. and look at that cover! surely this must be the Real Deal – where it all started, where it all hails from. because, according to the years and years of people praising it, L.C. was supposed to be the pinnacle of punk. so, we buy it. and we put it on and we’re like “eh? what? this is like the worst five tracks off any police album!”

    it utterly fails to live up to the legend. there is no album which has been more misrepresented in the legends of rock than London Calling. for someone who didn’t experience the whole punk thing first hand, there seems like a complete disconnect between the legend of angry punk rockers and the album that is hailed as that scene’s masterpiece.

    but, crushed expectations aside, but i do like some of it – even the pop songs and the faux-reggae and the silly things. but the best album of the 80’s ? not a chance.

  164. 164
    Calouste says:

    @SGEW:

    I’m just gonna jump in and share my musical dogma with y’all:

    Never trust a band that’s named after a place.

    Boston. Europe. Asia. Alabama. Kansas. Chicago. And, by association, Journey.

    Need I say more?

    Texas, Berlin, America, East 17.

    I offer Portishead as a rare counter example though.

  165. 165
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @cleek:

    I guess if that’s the framework you were/are viewing The Clash through, then all of that makes perfect sense. I would agree that holding The Clash up as the Pinnacles of Punk is setting up them up to be viewed with major disappointment. But if you take that part out of the equation, then I think the accolades are much more legitimate.

  166. 166
    Deborah says:

    I’ve got to quibble on Mr. Socks, though I’m sure New Yorkers would welcome him back at the moment. Infidelity alone would never have gotten him kicked out of office. It was committing various crimes he eagerly prosecuted, tightened rules for, etc that hung him out to dry. If you’ve gone after prostitution you can’t be caught paying a prostitute, and if you’ve gone after shady money deals you can’t play cute tricks with the money you use to pay the prostitute.

  167. 167
    JK says:

    @Midnight Marauder:

    Do you like the band Chicago?

  168. 168
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @JK:

    I’ve always enjoyed them, but I’ve become a bigger fan of theirs over the past few years. I’ve always been a sucker for a bombastic horn section, so any band that who regularly provides such a thing (and at a quality level) is a-ok in my book.

  169. 169
    Gordon, The Big Express Engine says:

    @JGabriel: I think Lucinda is great. My wife and I saw her at Austin City Limits Festival (’03 or ’04?) and she was totally plastered and slurred through her entire set. I thought she was going to be gonged off stage. We wondered about serious substance abuse problems.

    Seen her other times in Austin and she was fantastic.

  170. 170
    Gordon, The Big Express Engine says:

    @freelancer: The three year long SN! thread about how much Creed sucks was a thing of beauty. I spent nearly a whole work day laughing with that one…

    Go to their site and search for One Killer Flame War and you’ll find it.

  171. 171
    JGabriel says:

    @r€nato:

    Haircut 100, anyone?

    The only thing I remember from Haircut 100 is “Love Plus One”, which, if memory serves, was a fairly tolerable slice of light Britpop.

    Certainly not great, but I’m not sure they fall into the execrable category either. I mean, we’re not talking Barry Manilow or Air Supply here.

    .

  172. 172
    mclaren says:

    Absolutely right. Sanford should not have to resign…until the further revelations of crystal meth, gay hookers and underage boys come out. As everyone knows, GOP stands for “Gay Older Pedophile,” so it’s only a matter of time.

  173. 173
    Steeplejack says:

    @WereBear: @geg6:

    I’m way late, as usual, but I gotta say I liked the Tubes. “Sushi Girl”!. And they did a hilarious guest spot on SCTV. There was an ongoing thing where Gil Fisher, the fishin’ musician (John Candy), would introduce the guest music acts and then do something with them. I think he took the reggae group Third World antiquing. That was a classic.

    Gil Fisher with Joe Walsh.

  174. 174
    RememberNovember says:

    @AnotherBruce:
    Unless your related to a NY Senator like Espada.

  175. 175
    Jane2 says:

    “he did a little bit of travel on the taxpayer’s dime (but not all that much)”….so it’s ok to misuse “not all that much” of taxpayers’ dollars improperly? I prefer “none” which is what responsible politicians do.

  176. 176
    tom says:

    Kind of funny that while people are loving King Crimson and hating on ELP no one has pointed out that Greg Lake was in both groups.

  177. 177
    JK says:

    @tom:

    You make a great point. Greg Lake’s vocals on King Crimson’s debut album are amazing. I think he’s one of the best lead singers of all-time.

  178. 178
    Persia says:

    @Deborah: Yeah, running off to have an affair is one thing. Running off when your own staffers don’t know where you are is quite another.

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