This Ambinders quote (via Sullivan’s borg) is intriguing:
Lieberman should be satisfied that Holder has decided to limit the investigation to twelve documented instances of abuse, and that the White House’s first reaction here was to worry about morale at the CIA…
Is there another part of the government that we allow to just engage in wanton lawlessness, and then when the misdeeds are uncovered, the first priority in the investigation is the department’s “morale?” If IRS agents found a way to embezzle millions of dollars, when we discovered it and prosecuted them, would we worry about the morale of the IRS?
Also, just curious, but I thought we were working under the rules for the last decade, which state, quite clearly, “If you haven’t done anything wrong, you don’t have anything to hide.” Did a new edition come out and I missed the rule change? Or was that just for us regular citizens?
Damn you, Gary Gygax. I guess I need a new Player’s Handbook.
me
Does anyone really care if Lieberman is satisfied or not? Also?
JK
Love the references to songs in your blog posts. Keep ’em coming.
Joe Lieberman also channeled Clint Eastwood telling Alec Baldwin to go ahead and make his day.
The only version of I Fought the Law that matters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBeT4ptY9sY
RIP Joe Strummer
jl
Ambinder wrote “Lieberman should be satisfied”, but can anyone with any sense imagine Lieberman being satisfied by anything that is not an up front 110% sellout?
Really, Ambinder writes that, out in public in front of grown ups. horses, dogs and cats and well informed school children?
Oh dear, oh dear. And that kind of mess constitutes our press.
And isn’t Sullivan back? His blog should b unborged by now.
jl
And coverup. I forgot coverup. Make that ‘sellout and coverup’. Sorry.
Nazgul35
Donald Rumsfeld made his savings throw…
williamc
@ John Cole
I had forgotten about the “Republican Crime Syndicate – aka the Bush Administration” tag, it fits. And I know I shouldn’t think torture should be accompanied by funny thoughts, but this tag, Vagina Outrage, Black Jimmy Carter and Smoot-Halley are four phrases that really sum up this decade.
The rules haven’t changed JC, it’s still the same rule: IOKIYAR.
mai naem
Exactly what does Joe Lieberman bring to the Dem. caucus?
General Winfield Stuck
One day the wingnuts hate the CIA like the Plague, the next have tear soaked concern for their delicate sensibilities.
You can’t tell me that waterboarding someone once, let alone 183 times, or whatever it was, didn’t cross anyones mind that a legal opinion condoning it was not worth the paper it was written on.
And there is no doubt in my mind that the CIA and whoever else that participated in the ghoolish shit that is coming out, did not choose up sides of who would break the obvious laws against this shit despite orders, and those who refused. Following orders from Bugs Bunny is not a valid defense. No offense to Bugs, but he is a shifty little fucker, just like the legal weasels who pasted an OKey Dokey sign on the torture chamber door.
And if this gets past the preliminary investigation stage, which it will, on current public knowledge of what happened, then it will eventually lead to Caesars Rabbit Hole in the WH. That is how these things work unless anyone thinks Obama and Holder are dumb as hammers.
jl
@mai naem: More exposure of sleazy, hypcritical and corrupt Democrats on the Sunday TV political talkies?
williamc
@mai naem
to answer your question: shame.
and an extra set of flappy old-man jowls.
Sloth
Um, well. We’re talking about a bunch of guys that have wiretapped any conversation they’ve wanted to, for the last eight years or so.
I imagine a good chunk of our government is intimately concerned about their “morale”.
cleek
Lieberman ?
who gives a fuck what that sanctimonious prick thinks?
Sasha
Cheney = Neutral Evil
Bush = Chaotic Stupid
JR
The Office of the Vice President.
Sloth
And, FTR, any politician who tries to impede these investigations just needs to be assumed to be dirty.
Or perhaps I am over exclusive and we can just drop the “who tries to impede these investigations” bit.
jenniebee
Isn’t it cute that when people worry about the way that investigations might affect the morale of the CIA their preferred remedy is always to stop the investigation, instead of, and I’m just throwing this out there, that Cheney, Rumsfeld, Condi Rice, and anybody else who gave the orders in the first place should man up, take full responsibility, and get the operatives who were just following orders off the hook?
The Main Gauche of Mild Reason
And in case anyone has forgotten what an unbelievable weasely prick Lieberman is, I give you Lieberman 2006: I Will Help Obama “Reach to the Stars”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJTJbqKuDDM
Of course, two years later he joins McCain’s campaign and spends the whole time concern trolling about every conceivable character feature of Barack Obama.
Martin
Congress?
SEC under GOP rule?
Obama Death Panel Chairman (formerly glocksman)
Is that an unintentional misspelling of ‘blog’ or is ‘Sullivan’s borg’ some kind of witty alliteration that just went whistling over my head?
Jay in Oregon
Here you go.
Cain
Gary Gygax.. Jesus dude.. remind me again why you were a republican earlier? :-) I suppose plenty of military types did AD&D…
cain
Roger Moore
@williamc:
No. He may bring shame on the caucus, but not to it; he has no shame whatsoever to bring.
PeakVT
How about the morale of American citizens, Senator Droopy Dog? All that torture sh*t has a lot of us pretty bummed out.
Midnight Marauder
@Roger Moore:
No. He may bring shame on the caucus, but not to it; he has no shame whatsoever to bring.
And circle gets the square.
Svensker
@PeakVT:
Why aren’t you a journalist? Them’s the kind of questions that need asking.
burnspbesq
Mitch McConnell says that Holder made a “poor and misguided” decision. Greenwald thinks essentially the same thing, but for different reasons.
If those two are both unhappy, then I’m inclined to think Holder got it right.
Nutella
There’s a story on Huffington Post saying that Panetta threw a screaming fit at the White House about the torture investigation and is also upset about the information released today.
He called it “old news”.
Since 9/11 is even older news maybe we should forget about that too.
burnspbesq
From the Department of Unintentional Truth-Speaking: did y’all catch the line where Ambers refers to Lieberman “and other Republicans?”
Marc
“Sullivan’s borg”.
I LOVE it. That would make him… a borg queen :-)
DougJ
I really really love that song, especially the Clash version.
Tom
Big government is all evil unless they spy on Americans, torture folks and commit murder.
Gary Gygax lives on at Paizo.com
http://paizo.com/store/downloads/pathfinder/pathfinderRPG/v5748btpy88yj&source=top
Mike D.
Get f’ing real. There is every legitimate reason the POTUS and WH should be concerned with CIA morale. Whether we want to be is obviously our business. That they need to be is not a charge on you to be.
Personally, I am.
bago
Cheney is prototypical lawful evil. Getting pardons or sentence dismissals for his minions, abrogating power for himself in an office that only has the power to break a tie in the senate, while playing mister chaotic-stupid-brushclearer all the way to a fourth branch of government.
bago
Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam and going to war with the army you have, and not the army you want would be more chaotic evil.
slackerjax
I believe the Players Handbook 2nd edition has an substantial section on the IOKIYAR illusionist spell, wherein the misdeeds of republicans, the military/industrial complex, intelligence agencies and private military contractors are invisible (subject to a perception check), and, notably, when successfully perceived, still potentially afflict the perceiver with hexes of “anti-Americanism”, “unpatriotism”, “Bush derangement syndrome” and “DFH-ism”
Shalimar
Also, just curious, but I thought we were working under the rules for the last decade, which state, quite clearly, “If you haven’t done anything wrong, you don’t have anything to hide.” Did a new edition come out and I missed the rule change? Or was that just for us regular citizens?
There is also a Republican corollary to the rules from the last decade, which is that anything a right-winger does is by definition not wrong.
Napoleon
The USA is nothing more any more then a supersized banana republic, and this is just more proof of it.
Bender
“If you haven’t done anything wrong, you don’t have anything to hide.”
Holder’s Corollary: “Unless you are a Black Panther at a polling station. Then, it’s “wink, wink,” and I’ll stonewall any investigation.”
kay
Wow. The pushback by pundits and conservatives is powerful.
I think it’s wildly inappropriate to put pressure on the prosecutor to drop an investigation, particularly by those who worked in the Bush Administration, and may be implicated in that investigation.
I think once the decision is made to appoint a prosecutor, conservatives and pundits should probably stop lobbying, and trying to influence that investigation. Imagine if ordinary people got this national forum to mount a preemptive media defense, and try to influence outcome. Must be nice.
kay
I guess I don’t really get it. CIA officers are going to stage some sort of work slow-down? Is that why we’re worried about morale?
Presumably they didn’t take this job with some sort of guarantee that they would be protected if they broke the law, because no job or profession (that I’m aware of) comes with that guarantee.
Comrade Darkness
@mai naem: His backstabbing wingtardyness on some issues makes the blue dogs seem progressive and loyal. Lieberman: Faux party unity in a bottle.
When’s his term up again? I want to send some monies to his opponent. Any opponent.
Comrade Darkness
@Mike D.: Wait, what?
kay
I wish the media would get to the next question with conservatives who don’t want possible crimes investigated.
Do they want to change the laws? Is that it? If so, why didn’t they? They had Congress, and the Presidency.
Surely they can’t be claiming some kind of blanket immunity, but if they are, we should explore the parameters of that. What law-breaking fits within the exception, and who can claim the exception?
Hunter Gathers
@kay: They aren’t worried about morale. The 1% of CIA employees that did this shit is worried about prison time. They’ve known about that internal review since 2004. This is just a case of Cover Your Ass, and weaklings who cower in the face of the Almighty CIA will say anything to justify the CIA’s actions under the pre-tense of ‘keeping us safe’.
We don’t send criminals to jail in this country.
I mean, we don’t send upper-class, politically connected criminals to jail, as long as they don’t get caught having oral sex with someone who they are not married to.
If there was one thing that The Village needs to be burned down to the ground for, it is this. The entire Village was scared shitless of teh scery mooslims, and let Big Daddy Bush do whatever he wanted, as long as he kept teh scery mooslims away. Keep walking.
But a blowjob is worth persuing to the bitter end. A pox on the entire Village.
kay
@Hunter Gathers:
I think it will be interesting to find out how many were contractors, and the terms under which those contractors were hired. That indicates planning.
Hunter Gathers
@kay: Probably half are contractors. And they won’t hesitate for a second to finger the people who were giving the orders.
Arakasi
@Cain:
Gary Gygax.. Jesus dude.. remind me again why you were a republican earlier? :-) I suppose plenty of military types did AD&D…
General Shalikashvili considered D&D be excellent trainning in small unit tactics. Back when he was a colonel, he used to run games for his junior officers.
(a good friend of mine was the daughter of one of his officers – he was her first DM)
Of course, Shalikashvili did come out in support of Kerry back in 2004, so he’s obviously a DFH. Still, I don’t recall seeing many republicans at the game table – the worst I usually run across are the unwashed libertarians
Ella in NM
I have gotten to the point where, really, if the Obama administration will just let the Department of Justice prosecute all the unconstitutional and illegal activity of the Bush-Cheney cabal, I will gladly allow corporate healthcare America to continue to rape and pillage the land for a couple more years.
tomvox1
The real issue here is that Marc Ambinder can’t stop saying the absolutely stupidest, most morally craven shit. Man, is he on a roll! What’s next–advocating preemptive pardons for all culpable torture designing/authorizing parties who happened to work at Justice or the Executive Branch during Bush II? For Villagers like Ambinder, the world is happily full of Linndie Englands to take the fall but as long as the rule-makers and authorizers are the respectable establishment type, we mustn’t subject them to the rudeness of an investigation with any type of consequences for their action. By his logic, Göring wouldn’t have had to off himself and would have wiled away his remaining years at a think tank in Argentina and on the lecture circuit explaining how his underlings “misconstrued” his intentions.
gopher2b
Dissolve.the.CIA.
Grumpy Code Monkey
@Comrade Darkness:
I mentally added a “+7” to the end of that statement, and then it made more sense. Sort of.
Nazgul35
Nobody seems to be too concerned with the morale of all the decent CIA personnel who left the agency in disgust during the reign of terror…
Chad N Freude
@Napoleon:
,or at least the self-delusion of the right in that regard, is a significant contributor to the country’s current problems.