Drill, baby, drill:
President Obama wants to make the United States “the world’s leading exporter of renewable energy,” but in his seven months in office, it is China that has stepped on the gas in an effort to become the dominant player in green energy — especially in solar power, and even in the United States.
Chinese companies have already played a leading role in pushing down the price of solar panels by almost half over the last year. Shi Zhengrong, the chief executive and founder of China’s biggest solar panel manufacturer, Suntech Power Holdings, said in an interview here that Suntech, to build market share, is selling solar panels on the American market for less than the cost of the materials, assembly and shipping.
Checking my magic eight-ball, I think what would fix this is deregulating the oil industry more, allowing more offshore drilling, and more corporate tax cuts for oil and gas. I’ll have to check Reason magazine to know for sure, now that no one reads TechCentralStation.
Sloth
In Mass, Evergreen Solar (pretty sure it was them) just let their VP of operations go as they have decided to outsource all manufacturing.
I am wondering just how this quote: “Shi Zhengrong, the chief executive and founder of China’s biggest solar panel manufacturer, Suntech Power Holdings, said in an interview here that Suntech, to build market share, is selling solar panels on the American market for less than the cost of the materials, assembly and shipping.” is going to play out.
bayville
Just got off the phone with Gillespie and McMegan’s hubby and they both give your plan a double-thumbs up.
beltane
The USA has become like the vanished Viking colony of Greenland. Had they eaten salmon and seal like the natives, they could have survived in the worsening climate. But the priests told them to continue raising cows and sheep like good Christians, and so they perished.
We are just as stupid and shortsighted as these people.
El Cid
There used to be a term for selling products under cost in order to destroy or avert competition, but it would probably be too anti-freedomish to remember it.
Ian Aberbach
Don’t forget about eliminating all gasoline taxes.
General Winfield Stuck
Having so many wingnuts in this country. is like carrying an eleventy thousand pound turd on our backs.
El Cid
Besides, remember, we don’t need the lower skill, low to medium wage manufacturing jobs which will flow to places like China. Our real future lies in tech jobs and financial innovation. It’s inevitable.
Roger Moore
Gee. And my first thought was that a statement like that makes an excellent prima facie argument for an anti-dumping complaint. But then again, I don’t believe in the inevitable good of the invisible hand.
bayville
Kudlow chimed in. Said if Obama acts on this plan tomorrow, gas at the pump will be down to 76cents/gallon by Sunday.
The Grand Panjandrum
Under international trade laws isn’t what China doing considered dumping? If I’m right then the US has a case it can take to the WTO.
But drill, baby, drill works. Of course, it will make it more difficult to see Russia from Palins back porch but we all have to pitch in or the terrorists win.
In a tangential piece Meteor Blades wrote about a group of retired military brass pushing for more energy independence as a national security issue, and they are making a big push for alternative energy development.
cleek
Golden years, go-ooo-old, whop whop whop.
i’m glad i’m not twenty years younger than i am. it’s gonna suck, being China’s fluffer.
MikeJ
China will always be ahead in solar power:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7851670606705207738
jl
The USA is on the edge of becoming a declining industry. The filthy rich and corrupt plutocrats who run the country do not care. A few will be left standing after they suck the last dollar out the ruined capital stock, wasted resources, and debased and diseased population. They will then decide to which one of their foreign villas to retire, where they can party lavishly and talk over the good old days before they had to share the earth in degraded socialist nations. For they will be outcasts and victims, and will decry their fate.
The Grand Panjandrum
OT: Obama to reappoint Bernanke as Fed Chief.
cleek
OT: any those of us nite owls on the east coast may get a chance to see a shuttle launching tonight (about 1:35 AM): MSNBC
General Winfield Stuck
@bayville:
Kudlow is the creepiest winger of them all imo. Just looking at him on the teevee makes my skin crawl. That said, I hope he’s right and the oil companies can suck eggs.
Lev
Well, John, it was good enough for Reagan! We all know that we haven’t had energy trouble since then.
I mean, they were literally saying this 30 years ago, verbatim.
PeakVT
Didn’t we have a president who talked about alternative energy and energy independence and whatnot about 30 years ago? Whatever happened to him?
Max
OT –
The evil one has spoken… via The Weekly Standard
Former Vice President Dick Cheney gave The Weekly Standard a statement Monday night about the CIA documents and the coming Justice Department investigation.
The documents released Monday clearly demonstrate that the individuals subjected to Enhanced Interrogation Techniques provided the bulk of intelligence we gained about al Qaeda. This intelligence saved lives and prevented terrorist attacks. These detainees also, according to the documents, played a role in nearly every capture of al Qaeda members and associates since 2002. The activities of the CIA in carrying out the policies of the Bush Administration were directly responsible for defeating all efforts by al Qaeda to launch further mass casualty attacks against the United States. The people involved deserve our gratitude. They do not deserve to be the targets of political investigations or prosecutions. President Obama’s decision to allow the Justice Department to investigate and possibly prosecute CIA personnel, and his decision to remove authority for interrogation from the CIA to the White House, serves as a reminder, if any were needed, of why so many Americans have doubts about this Administration’s ability to be responsible for our nation’s security.
Max
@Max: There was supposed to be some blockquotes, but that last paragraph is that POS Cheney’s statement.
PeakVT
@The Grand Panjandrum: All I can say is: at least we didn’t get Summers. Or Geithner.
General Winfield Stuck
@Max:
Ben Franklin is spinning in his grave.
What a complete unmitigated rotten SOB coward is DArth Cheney.
BP in MN
@The Grand Panjandrum:
I think it depends on the extent to which the firms in question are being supported by the Chinese government. I don’t think selling below cost at the individual firm level is considered dumping. If the government is subsidizing the production and then the companies are selling in the US below cost because the Chinese markets are flooded, then there’s a WTO case.
But I may be completely wrong about that.
Zifnab
Hey, eventually we will just run out of money, right? And then the USA won’t look like such a hot market. So, HA! China, suck on that!
DougJ
The USA has become like the vanished Viking colony of Greenland. Had they eaten salmon and seal like the natives, they could have survived in the worsening climate. But the priests told them to continue raising cows and sheep like good Christians, and so they perished.
I think that all the time.
bayville
I was hoping for Dykstra.
MikeJ
I was fearing it would be Favre.
General Winfield Stuck
@MikeJ:
Lenny “Nails” Dykstra. Yes, that’s a go.
bayville
Well he’s not doing anything special since he retired.
General Winfield Stuck
sorry baville, Dykstra was yours.
jl
@DougJ: I read someplace that as it got colder during the fatal climatic cycle that sealed their fate, and they refused to adapt, their livestock became dwarfed. They ended up living with their dwarfed stock (which had become only somewhat larger than big dogs) inside of their hovels.
But, they lived the Viking way to end. With pride, I suppose.
Ty Lookwell
More and more it seems like this country peaked about 10 years ago and the drift towards second-rate status, the long predicted loss of unipolar superpower standing and empire, has visibly set in. Although the rot started a few decades back…
CatStaff
BP in MN –
Actually, I believe that if they’re selling below the cost of production, dumping laws address that, and if government subsidies are involved, then our countervailing duty laws get into the act.
josefina
Don’t forget oil shale! (Just to seal the deal with the BOB segment, since you can’t come right out with
blatantly racist declarations based on poorly sourced and even more poorly understood concepts of evolution, human and otherwisecontroversial yet obvious observations.)Roger Moore
I’m thinking that “Magic Eight-ball” is going to have to be a new tag for unthinking use of generic talking points. I suspect it’s going to get a big workout.
Shawn in ShowMe
I know you’re snarking but China does have a strange growth strategy. “We will make tons of money on exports and then use that money to buy more U.S. debt.” Talk about a crappy long time investment.
And then there’s their energy policy. “We will dump cheap solar products and hybrid vehicles on the market AND lead the world in coal-fired power plants.” That’s like washing down a Hardee’s Thickburger with a diet Coke.
Will
“Checking my magic eight-ball, I think what would fix this is deregulating the oil industry more, allowing more offshore drilling, and more corporate tax cuts for oil and gas.”
______________
And we should all get our very own “private energy account”.
uila
Great album reference, John. One of my favorites.
flounder
As El Cid said, we used to take international action against price dumping like this. If it was a gas station doing it the jackboots would step in to prevent the guy from undercutting everyone in town.
WereBear
@Will: Good one!
Actually, this points up the Republican thang of treating us like tiny, inadequate, undercapitalized corporations. What works macro for the big players is utter FAIL on the micro level of individuals.
Yet, since so many wingers secretly yearn for the money and power of large corporations, they fall for it.
Gordon, The Big Express Engine
O/T but is anyone wants to hear some great piano recitals of modern music, check out Christopher O’Riley’s Radiohead tribute albums. He’s the guy on NPR that does the weekly classical show with teenage performers.
The piano version of Let Down is absolutely heartbreaking. Ditto Fake Plastic Trees.
For an alternative rendering, see the Easy-Dub All-Stars Radiodread covers.
malraux
@PeakVT:
He apparently turned into an angry old man.
mr. whipple
“said in an interview here that Suntech, to build market share, is selling solar panels on the American market for less than the cost of the materials, assembly and shipping.”
isn’t there a trade law that prevents this type of shit?
uila
@Ty Lookwell: We can quibble about when the peak came, and for whom. Krugman sez the real income of the top 0.01% increased by 700% since 1980 – the rest of us, not so much. Right now I’m interested to see how everyone adapts to this new permanent underclass being ushered in under the guise of “jobless recovery”.
Hey, at least stocks are up!
bayville
@General Winfield Stuck
With a recommendation like that from one of – if not the best – financial minds in the U.S.A., I’m surprised Obama didn’t seriously consider Nails for the FedChair.
Will
@WereBear:
Exactly.
General Winfield Stuck
@bayville:
Them snooty bankers would have to think twice about saying no to a guy named “nails”/ I would think.
Obama Death Panel Chairman (formerly glocksman)
Can we start shooting them?
Not the Chinese, as they’re merely taking advantage of our stupidity, but the ‘free trade’ enablers in the USA.
The Chinese are merely acting in their nation’s best interests, but whose best interests are the clowns allowing this shit to occur acting in?
To paraphrase a somewhat well known wingnut: ‘rope, tree, free trader. Some assembly required’.
bayville
The only drawback would be he’d need an interpreter who can speak Mumbleese.
jl
Conservation would be the quickest, cheapest way to produce some savings in energy costs. Three is a book out that suggested a crash training program, which would get builders and contractors up to speed and be a way of funneling money to strapped public community colleges and technical schools.
It was an un-American idea, I guess, and too controversial to implement.
KG
@1: in a just world, it would end with an unfair business practices/anti-trust law suit.
Anne Laurie
@BP in MN:
… which we can’t afford to start, because the Permanent Kleptocrat Party have spent the last 30-plus years trading “our” IOUs to China in return for underpriced manufactured crap. Sure, we’ve hollowed out America’s manufacturing base while giving up our vaunted techological edge, but hey! Walmart’s stock has gone up like the rockets we used to make, and Sam Walton’s immediate family has a GDP to match your average mid-sized nation!
jwb
@Anne Laurie: Yes! Chinese: “What, you don’t want us to dump solar panels? Ok, then, we’ll just sell some of that $80 gazillion in treasury bonds we own and see how well you like serious inflation to go with that jobless recovery.”
The Main Gauche of Mild Reason
@jwb:
You forget how weird China is. They’re depending pretty heavily on demand in the US to rise again to return to their normal growth rate. I doubt the solar company has the full faith of the Chinese government behind it, so I doubt anything drastic like that would happen.
bhagamu
@El Cid:
Isn’t this referred to as “dumping”? And isn’t it also prohibited by the WTO?
ChrisB
@Shawn in ShowMe:
That’s what Lucent did before losing 96% of its stock price.
I’ve done that. With fries.
Surabaya Stew
Err, its not so simple! You see, Chinese solar firms are cheating when they are building these low cost systems; with disastrous results for average Chinese citizens…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/08/AR2008030802595.html
Basically, these corrupt toads are dumping the toxic by-products of silicon refinement onto the fields of local farmers. Not a good long term bet this is…
Warren Terra
@ Josefina, #34
Yeah, oil shale makes perfect sense as long as we’re at $100 a barrel and don’t give a goddamn about the incredible water use, water pollution, and carbon emissions required to get it.
Fulcanelli
The faster we go , the rounder we get Mr. Cole
Paulie Chestnuts
I remember EPI’s Jared Bernstein (IIRC one of Obama’s economic advisors) on an interview sometime last year mentioned that if the gov’t would charge oil companies the money that they AGREED TO PAY for drilling rights over the past decade on federal lands, that would quite the chunk of change.
Somehow I can see the prez getting hassled by the free-marketers/keep-the-gubmint-outta-business for this, even though the contracts are probably cut and dry.
PeakVT
@malraux: He apparently turned into an angry old man.
And who could blame him?
asiangrrlMN
Cole, as you know, I am a big fan of your website in general, and this Magic 8-Ball shtick is making me love it even harder. Keep it up!
El Cid
@bhagamu: It is usually called dumping when complaints are brought, and the WTO does indeed have mechanisms to allow private companies and nations to pursue actions against it.
T. O'Hara
Self-described Obama administration smart guys load giveaways into the stimulus bill, and then are surprised when the Chinese try to cash in? Were they surprised when the Japanese cashed in on the clunkers program?
Maybe if they stop giving away taxpayers’ money?
someguy
Excellent – we keep our lavish lifestyle at the expense of Chinese sweatshop labor.
Mmmm… Capitalism. Yummy globalist capitalism. Is there any problem it can’t solve?
Bob
“…is selling solar panels on the American market for less than the cost of the materials, assembly and shipping.”
That is called dumping. It is also illegal.
Can’t anyone enforce some sort of sane trade policy for the USA? Japan puts up trade barriers to American cars and China dumps solar panels and we sit on our hands. Why is this defended by “free-traders”?
Bob (Not B.O.B.)
Name fixed to limit associations with other B.O.B.’s
Throwin Stones
Alligator!
Wasn’t that Hunter’s first official contribution?
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@jl:
Anybody who has done a little bit of reading about the economic development of the late-Victorian/Edwardian British Empire has seen this movie before. “Free” trade, global imperialism which benefits mostly a small well connected few in the home country, financialization of the economy as the FIRE sector grows, falling behind industrial competitors who develop cutting edge technologies behind their own tarrif barriers (back then it was electricity, chemicals and optics in the USA and Germany), and pauperization of the bottom 1/3 or so of the population.
With luck we’ll avoid the really big war when it all falls apart bit. I really don’t want to live thru a do-over of 1914, this time with nukes and biotech.
On the other hand it wasn’t all bad back then – it would be kind of fun to relive the pre-Raphaelite movement in art – the cognitive dissoance of paintings showing religious themes and morally uplifting allegories with hot babes in suggestive poses was kind of interesting. I think Americans could get behind the idea of Bible-porn with supermodels.
ksmiami
If you want better government in the US, then we simply need the Republican party to disappear since they are frikkin nuts and do not contribute a damn thing. The Chinese have highly effective (and ruthless) centralized controls and so when they decide to put an economic program in place like cap and trade, or new energy policies, underground wireless and more, they just do it. We are too burdened by a 2 party system and gridlock and a dumb population who doesn’t understand what “promote the general welfare” means anymore.
tootiredoftheright
“Were they surprised when the Japanese cashed in on the clunkers program?
”
Most of those cars were built in the US about 60-90% of the car parts are built in the US and assembled in the US by American workers, sold by American workers at American owned auto dealerships.
slippy
@mr. whipple: Trade laws: how quaint!
RememberNovember
China is following that great Capitalist, Michael Dell- saturate the market with mediocre goods, take a hit on the margin to retain a fatter market share and brand identity.