One thing I’ve been hearing a lot is the idea that what Democrats really need right now is Repubilcan-style salesmanship and media relations. Here’s Jon Stewart, for example:
“Why is this so hard? Why can’t you guys just stay on message? Remember the Bush team? Little bit of discipline, little bit of repetition. They sold us a WAR nobody wanted and nobody needed.”
Stewart then played a series of clips featuring former President George W. Bush, Colin Powell, Condi Rice, Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney speaking about weapons of mass destruction in the lead-up to the Iraq war.
“Salesmanship!,” Stewart said, after the clip. “Those guys could sell ice cubes to Eskimos. The Democrats, I don’t even think could sell Eskimos BEEP they need — insulation, heating apparatus.”
It’s a silly comparison, of course. Wars are easy to sell. As Goering put it “just tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism.” It’s that simple.
Big domestic programs (other than tax increases cuts) are nearly impossible. The Bush people went 0-for-2 on big domestic proposals. It’s difficult to turn immigration reform or Social Security privatization into a war against the worst enemy ever.
For all the talk about how Congress did whatever Bush wanted — and they did — he didn’t pass much of import domestically, aside from the big tax cuts (something else that’s always easy to pass) and (EDIT) Medicare Part D, a big corporate give-away (these are also relatively easy to pass). The last president to have success with ambitious domestic policy initiatives was probably LBJ.
Castigating Obama for not being another LBJ seems a little unfair to me.
R-Jud
Have you seen Tom Tomorrow’s latest? Chock full o’ win.
dmsilev
Tax cuts, I presume you mean.
-dms
BR
They do seem to be having a hard time with their message.
It makes me wonder – if David Plouffe were in charge behind the scenes would we be having this problem?
Punchy
Checks House numbers — overwhelming majority
Checks Senate numbers — filly fucking proof majority
Excoriating and visceral castigation sounds fair to me….
Dave
I agree that it is easier to sell war and tax cuts, but the Democrats could at least show some balls and a little message discipline. The GOP may be wrong about pretty much everything, but they know how to stay on point.
Creamy Goodness
Feh. Put Baucus, Conrad, and Bayh on the spot:
“Will you filibuster a Democratic health care reform bill?”
And if they answer yes, treat ’em as traitors.
Playing hardball is as simple as that. It’s maddening that the Obama administration won’t go that direction.
Napoleon
Of course the difference between Obama’s programs and the failed initiatives of Bush is that at least Obama’s are popular (at least the health care one). Obama needs to grow a pair and push for a specific plan and just dare Conrad to vote against it.
By the way, Nixon may have been the last president to get some big domestic initiatives (though nothing like LBJ).
Hunter Gathers
The reason the Dems are having a hard time with messaging is because they refuse to speak crazy talk. Crazy talk always gets higher ratings than ‘boring’ policy discussions.
Why do I keep seeing liberals wishing that the administration adopt Bush’s political strategies?
This isn’t a sprint. It’s marathon. And the nutters are already winded.
donovong
“Castigating Obama for not being another LBJ seems a little unfair to me.”
I don’t think Obama is being castigated for not being LBJ. I believe it is for not being the epitome of the combination of LBJ, JFK, Tiger Woods and Santa Claus. He has been in office for all of 8 months, and yet he has not transformed the ways of Washington politics, ended the wars in Afghanistan or Iraq, ended DADT or DOMA, stopped the recession, etc., etc. ad fucking nauseum.
The expectations for this guy were boundless, unrealistic and stupid, all because of 8 years of low expectations that were lived down to.
Brick Oven Bill
If the American people, and John Steward, and the Iraqi people, and Barack all want the US to pull out of Iraq, and then the American people vote for Barack, and the Iraqi people vote us out, and Barack is now the Commander in Chief of the United States of America, why is the United States lobbying to keep troops in Iraq?
Oh wait, never mind. Send more to Afghanistan.
Hunter Gathers
@Napoleon:
“By the way, Nixon may have been the last president to get some big domestic initiatives (though nothing like LBJ).”
Nixon may have been a paraniod S.O.B., but the bastard got shit done. I still curse him, though.
Brian J
I’ve always wondered whether they were mistaken or deluded when they felt that their mandate from 2004, such as it was, included the strength to gut Social Security. I can understand why they lied about what they were trying to do as they were trying to do it. After all, a lot of polls have shown that privatization is supported only if there’s no decrease in benefits, which is like asking people if they simply want a fistful of cash. But even then, the country has to be behind the reform; you can’t just assume that because people voted for you, they’re behind every single part of the platform. Yet that’s exactly what the Republicans appeared to do.
The Grand Panjandrum
Prescription drug benefit. That is probably the biggest giveaway ever. And I don’t mean to those receiving the drugs. It passed a Republican controlled House and Senate. A Republican President signed the bill. Legislation that specifically bars the gummint from bargaining with big pharma for better prices on drug. We pay full retail price for every pill purchased through that program. (OK once in a while one of the drug companies gives us a “good deal” so we fell a little better about paying retail for everything else.) Obama brings this up in all his healthcare related townhall meetings. That the Republicans are suddenly fiscal conservatives is, at best, a joke. The American taxpayer is on the hook for trillions because of this entitlement. Unless that legislation is modified it will dwarf everything else being discussed in the current reform process.
DougJ
By the way, Nixon may have been the last president to get some big domestic initiatives (though nothing like LBJ).
True. But, mostly, they weren’t his babies. He was signing stuff Congress passed.
Violet
Just because they aren’t trying to sell a war doesn’t mean the point isn’t valid. The Dems’ messaging stinks.
I know what the Republicans’ messages are: Death panels, healthcare changes will kill grandma, long lines, no choice in doctors. It’s all lies, but their messages are consistent.
I really don’t know what the Democrats are trying to say. Public option? What’s that? Co-op? Isn’t that where DFH’s buy their beans and rice? The only reason I understand what their message is that I read blogs and follow this stuff. The average person that isn’t doing that won’t have a clue. They need a consistent soundbite, like, “Medicare for All!” or “Lower costs, better service.”
Sure it’s hard to sell domestic policy. It’s much easier to sell patriotism. So frame this health thing with the patriotism meme – “Making America stronger!” or “America’s security depends on America’s health.”
It’s not that hard. And it’s certainly not as hard as the Dems are making it.
phein
It’s a silly comparison, of course. Wars are easy to sell. As Goering put it “just tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism.” It’s that simple.
H’mmm:
“Our health care system — the best in the world — is being attacked by anti-American communists who want socialized medicine.”
Not that hard of a translation for conservatives to make, now, was it?
media browski
I’ve maintained for nearly a year now that I will judge Obama’s first term not by how many progressive policies he moves forward, but rather by how many Bush catastrophes he fixes.
Mr. Poppinfresh
@DougJ:
You forgot NCLB, the biggest domestic policy initiative of his first term.
Rosali
Bush passed Leave No Child Behind
JGabriel
DougJ:
Yeah, especially after only 8 months in office.
.
Brian J
Yes.
If there’s one thing that the Democrats need to learn from the Republicans, it’s this, assuming it doesn’t go hand-in-hand with blocking out any dissenting voices as traitors to the party.
Just think, how many times did we hear the phrase “saving, investing, and creating jobs” in regards to the Bush tax cuts? If it seems like a lot, and any sort of word count would reveal it was, that’s because they repeated the phrase over and over again until it was glued into your brain.
Third Eye Open
BOB, the internets are your friend. Try Jon Stewart next time.
On a more personal note, use less teeth next time, and I won’t have to smack you so hard.
Did you get that monogrammed bib and knee-pad set i sent you? Who loves ya, baby?
Napoleon
@DougJ:
True, but considering that we have huge Democratic majorities, a Democratic president and the fact that the Dems have been pimping the health care card for years is it too much to ask that a real honest to God effective reform package get passed?
Obama needs to have a sit down with Conrad, Buacus, Reed, etc and tell them they have to pass X and that Obama is willing to send his presidency down in flames to get it, and if he doesn’t and its because of them he is willing to spend the rest of the days of his life making their lives miserable if they do.
T. O'Hara
We ought to get rid of the DoD completely, and use the money to pay off the deficit, pass the health care bill, and use whatever’s left over on feeding the poor.
[What’s that? The deficit is bigger than all defense spending combined? Bummer.]
Never mind.
JGabriel
@Dave:
That’s because you don’t have to fret the details when you’re about everything anyway.
.
zoe kentucky in pittsburgh
Playing hardball is as simple as that. It’s maddening that the Obama administration won’t go that direction.
Um, why would they play hardball right now? I am just as frustrated as anyone else that their message discipline truly sucks right now, however, why would they do it now during the August recess?
Patience, folks. There is still plenty of time for this to play out well, we’re just trapped in the longest August recess ever– we on the left are stuck spinning our wheels while listening to the screaming of rightwing banashees.
What have we gained this summer? The GOP has proven to everyone that they will not vote for ANYTHING and that they have walked away from the negotiating table. When congress is back in session the dems don’t have to keep reaching out to the GOP, they did it and the GOP slapped their hands away and accused them of killing grandmas.
Da Bomb
@donovong: I seconded that!! You are preaching to the choir.
Face
This isn’t a sprint. It’s marathon. And the nutters are already winded.
Seriously, what debate are you watching? The nutters have pretty much won. They got Congress to drop the end-of-life provision, they got them to acknowledge the possible removal of the PO, they’ve gotten numerous BDs and a few Senators to openly and brazenly defect on support.
Winded? I guess, from laughing so hard at the Dems’ ineptitude.
zoe kentucky in pittsburgh
Bush passed Leave No Child Behind
Yeah, but no one was protesting in the streets over education reform, it doesn’t impact everyone, just those who work in education and/or have kids.
Nothing Bush did domestically comes anywhere close to reforming healthcare.
Da Bomb
@Face: You really think the PO is dropped? Really. There is no fucking bill!
So how can something be dropped in a nonexistent bill.
What a joke!
wasabi gasp
That One’s Hitler Fu is weak.
dan robinson
As much as I want Obama to light up the Republicans about the health care issue, I think that it would have diminishing returns. Obama got elected because people a change from politics as usual. Too bad that politics as usual didn’t get the message.
The MSM adds inertia to the status quo by repeating verbatim everything that is said by either side of an issue. They do this because they are searching for a narrative thread that can be used to sell advertising. They use the language of narrative to pitch stories about events. This is commonly heard on television before a break for a commercial: “Is Obama losing the message war on health care? Stay with us as we discuss the issues.” The issue is reduced to a narrative arc about Obama and his goals, i.e., to reform health care, not about the health care plan itself. The voyeuristic nature of the narrative plot point keeps viewers watching during the commercial.
But that’s the way it is. Obama needs to turn some other people loose to light up the Republicans though.
PeakVT
OT: Howard Dean is on NPR’s On Point this hour (1st hour).
Kirk Spencer
I’ve been watching the numbers, and I’ve become hopeful about this. Most of the protests and the agitation are sound and fury, signifying nothing. Instead, note some critical path points.
1) No House Republican will vote for health care reform, period. The vote solely depends on getting enough Democrats to vote for it.
2) A Caucus is powerful only when it moves as a block. The Blue Dogs are officially split, with “I won’t” and “I will” sounding clear. Because of this split the need to protect the caucus’s strength is gone. Because of THAT, electability matters. With the exception of about a third of the Blue Dogs, voting AGAINST is going to make the constituents UNHAPPY. (For the exception, well, they’re Democrats in what are essentially Republican territory and are in because they opposed someone REALLY bad or because they snuck through with incumbent advantage.)
3) Some of the blue dogs that did oppose it have been getting angry at the ‘strong arm tactics’ they’ve been seeing from the birthers. Allegedly at least two have “changed their minds”.
4) As a result of 1-3, the house will probably pass HR3200.
5) In the Senate, there are four republicans who might support the bill and three Democrats who have expressed opposition. The three Democrats opposed may, however, be willing to bring a bill to cloture regardless of how they vote in the end. I think there’s a better than 50% chance they’ll bring a bill to cloture. If it gets that far, it’ll get the 50 needed to pass.
6) Even if the Senate does not get cloture, the path has been made for HR3200 to get there via reconciliation. It is not a trouble-free path, but the obstacles have been identified and (as far as possible) countered. This puts the reconciled bill in front of House and Senate between late September (if S4 passes) and mid-November (if the underhanded reconciliation process is required).
At this point I’m pretty certain we’ll see a health care reform bill be signed before Thanksgiving.
zoe kentucky in pittsburgh
No one has won or lost this yet, we’re in a dead news zone, and what happens right now really doesn’t matter.
Everyone needs to go take a hike or something, go to the beach, take a chill pill– it’s summer, folks.
Although I’ll say one thing, at the very least it’s nice to have a hardworking president who doesn’t take the whole month of August off to play on his “ranch” in Texas.
Face
@Da Bomb: I absolutely think it will be dropped. It’s contentious, therefore the Dems aren’t being bipartisan if they try and shove it down Americans’ and Republicans’ throats. How dare the Dems do something as unAmerican as pass a bill that a few Americans object to!
I know all this b/c cable network news has told me so. And I know how the Dems will react, b/c its the same reaction every single time–avoidance of confrontation.
JGabriel
R-Jud:
Nice catch, R-Jud. I hope Obama, Reid, et. al., see that one.
.
Violet
@zoe kentucky in pittsburgh:
Sure is. Although the Republicans I’ve heard are ripping into him for taking any time off at all. And using “our tax money” to “fly all over the country.” Just how did they think W. got to the ranch? Privately funded jetpack?
jrg
I’d add that by compromising, the Dem’s message discipline gets worse. Case in point:
Me – “If we had universal health care, the premiums poor people (and their employers) pay would help cover the overhead we already pay for uninsured people, like the costs and delays resulting from using the ER as primary care”.
Politically moderate friend – “I see your point”.
White house – “Let’s compromise – no universal coverage”.
Politically moderate friend – “What was your point, again, jrg”?
Me – “Let me get back to you.”
Da Bomb
@Face: I don’t believe so at all. I worked for cable news. I wrote for newcasts. I know how much of a joke news can be.
Zifnab
@Punchy:
You need to recheck your numbers. I count a modest majority in the house composed of at least 50 corporate sellouts.. er, Blue Dogs. And in the Senate… oh god in the Senate. It’s like a Who’s Who of bought and paid for politicians. Hell, Joe Freak’n Biden is a wholely owned subsidiary of the national banking community, coming from Delaware.
Hunter Gathers
@Face: How can concessions be given when there is no fucking bill yet?
Grassley can’t remove shit because there is no fucking bill yet.
The P.O. isn’t dead because there is no fucking bill yet.
chiggins
For all the talk about how Congress did whatever Bush wanted—and they did—he didn’t pass much of import domestically
*cough*patriotact*cough*
Da Bomb
@Kirk Spencer: Which is very similar to Dr. Dean was saying. He gave it until December, I believe.
Punchy
@Zifnab: You can make excuses why Dems wont vote as Democrats, which is just what you’ve done. But in the end, they all purport to be espousing the ideals of the Democratic party, as defined by the Democratic President. And by the numbers, they have a significant majority in both houses.
And yet they vote their own wealth (lobbyists, etc.), not their party. This is why they will never succeed in passing meaningful legislation, IMO.
Woody
The substance of the complaint of inexperience against Obama was always that he was a Senatorial rookie, without significant power in that body, and without the wherewithal to bully and cajole obstinate Members.
Biden as VP, was/is not LBJ.
Obama’s support is flagging because he is perceived to be advocating for programs that are portrayed (by the Right/SCUM) as being hand-outs to the despised, ‘undeserving’ minorities–poor blacks, browns, immigrants, etc.–which the White middle-class has ALWAYS opposed.
His support was wide (more or less) but shallow…the ‘hopey/changey’ constituency has grown skeptical, because he seems to have abandoned them. He won by a relatively narrow margin against the most lack-luster opposition imagineable, in a race it’s obvious to me the Pukes threw (they didn’t even TRY to steal it).
The Pukes can ONLY regain their Congressional majority–or diminish the Dims’–by making certain that nothing meaningful gets enacted into law., on any issue.
Blue Neponset
He doesn’t have to be the second coming of LBJ to do a better job selling the country health care reform.
We, as a nation, are discussing “death panels” for the love of Mike. That is a failure of the President and the Democratic Party. They don’t deserve to be given a pass on that.
lotus
Until the reform is past the worthless Baucus Caucus, avoidance-of-confrontation is smart. Four of the five House and Senate versions are strong and include a public option. Get it into conference (wouldn’t we love to see that list of appointees!), and there something like what Mike Lux suggested yesterday becomes possible: they pass the non-controversial parts but split the PO and financing stuff off into a separate bill to send to reconciliation.
Whatever the plan afoot (that I’m sure we don’t see yet but they’ve got), you bet that getting the thing the hell out of Baucus’s mitts is Project A. So softly-softly for now . . .
Davis X. Machina
Bush passed Leave No Child Behind…
This gets a lot of play because there’s a school in every town, so NCLB’s got near-universal reach. but NCLB’ actual impact on a school district, expressed in $$$ from the Fed, is nugatory. It’s almost all stick, no carrot — the mother-lode of unfunded mandates. My school district’s funding was 8% Federal before NCLB, now it’s just under 11% — the lion’s share remains state and local taxes. PL 94-142 was much more significant.
A new social provision on the scale of what is being discussed in HR 676, or something like HR 3200, is orders of magnitude more expensive, and more complicated. Nixon didn’t bring in anything of that scale.
cleek
yeah… about that…
Calming Influence
@Kirk Spencer: Great comment – the cloture vote point is spot on. It allows Blue Dogs and other hand-wringers to the support the bill while giving them the option of casting an ineffective but politically helpful “NO” vote.
And ANY Dem that votes “NO” on cloture needs to be made to understand they’ll face a tough primary the next time they’re up. The Unions are starting to make that point.
Matthew Hooper
Let me get this straight. The Repblicans lost the Presidency, the House, and the Senate, are probably going to be out of power for years, and you’re complaining that we’re not more like them?
Hunter Gathers
@Blue Neponset: How is it Obama and the Dems fault that stupid sells? Given the choice between a prime time discussion on health care and Dancing With The Stars, most ‘muricans would watch Dancing With The Stars.
Which is taller, the Tree of Crazy or the Tree of Stupid?
cleek
the President doesn’t define the ideals of the party. at best, he can embody, uphold and champion them. but they exist independently of whoever sits in the white house.
chopper
@Punchy:
filibuster-proof majority? on paper maybe. in reality that’s counting blue dogs and caucusing independents like joementum and even then its just barely.
the last two democrats to make such big sweeping changes were lbj and roosevelt and they had it much easier – you can change the game when a handful of jackasses can’t throw your mandate out the window.
Keith G
Yeah, sign me up with the “Its too early to lose our minds side”. I know bloggers and pundits need shit to write about everyday – several times a day. Still, we are pretty early in the life of this presidency.
I agree with Dr. H. Dean that now that it is obvious that Repugs are totally gone, we can re attach the public plan and let Conrad et al decide if they really want to torpedo Obama, the Dem Congress, and their chairmanships. I am thinking that they will play ball.
To the greater point of the lack of Dem salesmanship, that concerns me. I think the issue stems from the fact that the Repugs are just plain better at this. They were a minority party for so long that they became more disciplined and pugnacious.
One of the Dem problems is that to regain the majority over the last decade or so, we have had to embrace conservative candidates who could win conservative districts. Democrats have a majority of seats in Congress liberals certainly do not. Liberals plus moderates, barely.
Pablo
We are a Christian nation. Of course we love war and hate the poor.
Violet
@Matthew Hooper:
Just because they lost doesn’t mean Democrats can’t learn a thing or two from them. Strong messaging discipline is one of their strengths. And it can be harnessed for good instead of evil. The Democrats could learn a thing or two about messaging from the Republicans.
Blue Neponset
It isn’t their fault that stupid sells. It is their fault that they ignore the fact that stupid sells.
Obama & Co. should have given the Emm Ess Emm a bunch of prepackaged stories about Americans suffering because their health insurance plans suck or because they don’t have health insurance. Elected Democrats always seem to forget that the press is lazy and doesn’t care about the truth. Republicans realize this and, as a result, they can play the fourth estate like a fiddle.
The Other Steve
I quite honestly am not certain a public option will help healthcare. I don’t think that’s the problem.
It’s something more fundamental with the way doctors practice medicine. That’s what we have to look at.
Napoleon
@lotus:
Huh? They would be morons to split the bill. At the end of the day if sinking the bill comes down to a few Dems voting the wrong way I think they will not do it. I think that is the entire reason Conrad has been trying to sell the idea that the PO does not have the votes. He wants it out of the bill so he doesn’t have to vote on it because he wants to vote no. But when it comes down to it voting no will be very dangerous for him to do. That is why they need it all in one bill that forces the Dems to vote it up or down.
MBunge
“Let me get this straight. The Repblicans lost the Presidency, the House, and the Senate, are probably going to be out of power for years, and you’re complaining that we’re not more like them?”
It should also be pointed out that the last President to somewhat behave like everyone is demanding was Bill Clinton. What that approach achieved in policy was mostly stuff a moderate Republican could love and, it never got him 50% of the vote and after 8 years it left the Democratic Party in the worst shape it had been in since before FDR.
I read something from Matt Taibi this morning about how Bush would never let himself be treated the way Obama has in this health care debate, convienently ignoring that Obama doesn’t have the aftermath of 9/11 silencing all opposing voices and that Bush’s approach produced massive actual and political failures. The truth is that Bush looked tough and Taibi has the same lizard-brain attraction to that stuff as anyone else.
Mike
Ash Can
@T. O’Hara: Let me explain to you why your numbers arguments get no sympathy here. You believe that the government shouldn’t make a bad situation worse through increased spending. Fair enough.
However, we believe that there’s more to the operation of government than numbers. Our premise is that government exists to serve the citizens of its country. During the W admin, as DougJ refers to in his original post, government focused its service upon a select few — e.g., KBR, Blackwater, and other winners of war profiteering contracts, as well as TARP recipients once the economy’s engines broke down. But at least this small percentage of Americans making out like bandits were, well, Americans, right? However, the W admin didn’t stop there. It took countless of our tax dollars and plowed them into another country in an effort (and an inefficient and poorly coordinated one at that) to fix the enormous mess it had made there. The mess certainly needed fixing, I’ll grant the previous admin that. But the upshot of the whole 8-year fiscal clusterfuck was that we BJ commenters, along with everyone else, saw our tax payments disappear down a black hole with extremely few of us seeing any return on our investment, and in fact much bad being done with our money.
Now the current administration is proposing to expand that already huge deficit. Not a good thing in and of itself, right? But it’s proposing to do so by providing services, to Americans here in America, services that we believe are long overdue at that. Now, here’s the crux of the difference between us and you: we believe that government serving its citizens and raising the overall standard of living in this country trumps mere numbers. It does no good to complain about the federal deficit to us because that horse left the barn ages ago. It’s yesterday’s issue. We hired the current administration to work for us, not for themselves and their wealthy friends, and if they have to spend tax revenue to do it, well, that’s what we’re paying the damned taxes for in the first place. Furthermore, unlike too many of our fellow citizens, we’re under no delusions that we’re just a tax cut or two away from easy street.
So your numbers mean nothing to us, and we treat them, and your arguments, accordingly. If you were instead to argue in terms of practical consequences, with sources supporting your arguments that haven’t already been shown to be suspect, you might get more traction with us. As it is, you have nothing.
The Grand Panjandrum
@cleek: You are correct to point out this glaring problem. And that is the part of pending legislation (all five versions) that I’ve been trying to sort out. I’m still not quite sure how all this is going to be sorted out in the end and could be a disaster waiting to happen if indeed big pharma once again gets its weasly mitts on the taxpayers purse string.
Hunter Gathers
@Blue Neponset: Don’t forget that MSM memes don’t last much longer than 3 weeks before they move on to something else stupid.
Why bother playing when the refs are forever distracted by bright and shiney?
This time last year, the MSM proclaimed Steve Schmitt a ‘genius’ for the ‘Celebrity’ ad comparing Obama to Paris Hilton and Britney Spears. And how did that work out for that fat bald piece of shit?
DougJ
NCLB
Not a truly major bill, IMHO.
lotus
@Napoleon:
Nappie, I’m not staking my claim on Lux’s idea so much as on the fact that it’s crucial to have done with the Gang of Six ASAP. I sure don’t know what Team O’s planning after that (whether it’s Lux’s scenario or another). But it oughta be obvious to everybody that prolonging the Baucus agony by getting up in those dolts’ faces ain’t worth the candle. (This is classic Obama Long Game.)
Keith G
@Ash Can: I am in awe.
lotus
Okay, Ezra splains it better than I did.
Napoleon
@lotus:
I would agree he has to get it out of that committee, but only if once he does so he deep sixes all the bs they put in as part of reconcileation and when Conrad, Baucus, Jim Cooper, etc. bitch about it tell them to STFU and vote for it or find themselves on the White House’s shit list.
gopher2b
Americans hate insurance companies more than they hate muslims (I realize muslims are Americans…stay on point). Frankly, I cannot believe Dems cannot sell this.
Blue Neponset
@Hunter Gathers: Three weeks was enough time to torpedo John Kerry’s Presidential campaign. Also, Al Gore invented the internet!!
The media machine must be fed. Obama & Co. ignore this at their peril.
neil
Castigating Obama for not being an LBJ is not unfair. At all. In fact, it’s quite apt.
Johnson, for all his many and glaring faults, knew how to get his agenda passed in the Senate – by cajoling, and gentle persuasion if possible – or, if need be, with hard-ball intimidation and ruthless threats. The reason his threats worked was because every single member of the Senate knew that he’d be as good as his threat, and if you crossed him, he wouldn’t forgive and he would never forget. Nasty, isn’t it? But that’s what it takes to get the American House of Lords in line – not this wet-finger-in-the-air, triangulating dithering – not to mention all the frantic back-peddling at the first sign of opposition.
The times we live in require an FDR – bold, daring, creative leadership, with a soupcon of LBJ’s “take no prisoners” ‘tude – but, instead, what we’re getting is Clinton Redux – smart, kool kidz who think their brilliance will dazzle all before them – which is exactly what we don’t need.
It seems to me that Obama keeps caving in to Republicans for very little reason – despite their being in the minority by quite a number of votes. However, what they lack in numbers they make up for in boldness and demagoguery – and they already smell blood in the water, and unlike our President, all have a killer instinct.
Simultaneously, Obama keeps consistently backstabbing Progressives by negotiating away all their core concerns for chump change – because that alleged political genius Rahm Emmanuel thinks he can get away with it.
Please keep in mind that his back and forth, on-again / off again support of a public option (already a sell-out position in my opinion), is happening because a bunch of Republican howler monkeys are screeching bald-faced lies at the tops of their lungs – and apparently for some bizarre reason he chose not to learn from history and somehow didn’t calculate that happening. He’s not retrenching because they are actually winning a policy “debate” – he’s just losing his nerve. This is the quality of his “fierce advocacy”.
I don’t think he, or anyone in his Administration, has the guts to face down, or even mock, the howler monkeys. That’s how it looks to me – and I’m a supporter. Worse for him, that’s how it looks to Republicans who will now let nothing stand in their way.
Make no mistake – this is not simply a temporary setback in the making – it’s a political fiasco that will resonate through the rest of his term in office if he doesn’t retake the reins. It will act as a script or a template for his opposition for every other policy debate for the next three years. It will embolden his enemies, and throw his supporters into despair – and once that happens, his Presidency is toast.
If Obama continues to mollify his enemies at the expense of his supporters, he will not see a second term – unless something crazy happens, like the Republicans nominate the Snowbilly Queen.
Rob C.
The point Doug, is not that they are (or are not) succeeding in the battle to pass health care reform, it’s that their efforts have been weak and ineffectual.
They have ceded control of the debate to the Republicans and the health insurance industry from the very beginning. And President Obama seems incapable of knocking heads, whether it’s Democratic blue dogs or obstructionist Republicans.
Fighting the good fight and losing is one thing. I could live with that. But it’s most disheartening to see Democrats, with the strong control of Washington DC we gave them after the last election, still getting slapped around by Republicans on a daily basis.
Davis X. Machina
@gopher2b“Frankly, I cannot believe Dems cannot sell this..”
I can.
Because we have, alone among industrialized countries, decided to have a morality play, where everybody else has a social provision.
Americans are being presented with a choice between a satisfying narrative arc, in which the good guys, the grasshoppers (prosperous, prudent, probably white-collar, probably white, period) win, and the bad guys (poor, spendthrift, etc, etc.) get punished, and an actual, functioning social provision.
And the story’s so compelling no amount of evidence about the grasshoppers going bankrupt, too, even makes a dent.
If history’s any guide, we’ll take the coherent story over the boring social provision, even if we would benefit in the aggregate from the social provision.
You’d think a counter-narrative this good would make a dent, but we’re a Christian nation, which means we don’t listen to a word He said.
The Saff
A scene from the pilot episode of “The West Wing.”
Reverend: “Every group has it’s demons, Leo.”
Leo McGarry: “You don’t have to tell me that, reverend. I’m a member of the Democratic Party.”
The Saff
@Hunter Gathers: Bill Maher pointed that out again last Friday. He said Americans keep proving him right about their stupidity.
rumpole
To distill:
1. Find villain.
2. Anyone against program is pro-villain.
Villain=for-profit insurance trying to kill you for an extra $20.
Problem: campaign contributions.
cleek
Obama & Co have plenty of that stuff. the MSM is not interested. the MSM is giddy about the political fight, and could care less about what the fight is actually about.
MBunge
“Johnson, for all his many and glaring faults, knew how to get his agenda passed in the Senate”
LBJ also did his work in the 1960s. In case you haven’t noticed, it ain’t the 60s.
Mike
Elie
Ash Can @ 63 — Awesome comment — totally agree. I would only add a rhetorical question: Who is the Government? Answer: The Government is US — the will of the people made manifest — not some outside entity that Republicans and Libertarians like to classify as “evil” so that they can manipulate their poor dupes to act against their own self interest. We the people set our priorities and we the people are the first priority…
Unfortunately, in this country, poor whites have sold themselves out for a long long time and desperately need liberation. The source of their psychological prison is their need to identify with their rich white overlords over the other people who populate this land. In Europe, there were no “other people” so they could not be manipulated into us/them thinking about race and ethnicity. In Europe therefore, poor whites stood up for class issues and were able to see their self interest without the distorting lens of racial and ethnic identity tribalism.
I see this next decade or two as hopefully a beginning towards WHITE liberation of their own working and poor classes. The trick of course, is somehow they have to travel past this faux identity hysteria which will be difficult to do but not impossible.
If poor whites can wake up, a whole lot can change for the better. Without that, it will always be a struggle…
BombIranForChrist
I agree with you on most things, but disagree on this. Obama won a decisive election based on clearly stated goals, and then when it comes to the biggest, he punts to Congress, where Congress does what it does best … f*** thing up.
cleek
the last Dem president tried pushing his own health care plan through Congress. and then what happened ?
the GOP won a majority in both houses, the first time in 40 years, is what happened.
valdivia
DaBomb and lotus and KrikSpencer: once again y’all making sense.
So let’s see where we are: past midpoint in August and all they got is death panels and guns and coops are socialist also?
Sounds like a great setup to me to ditch the republicans. And by the way–do you all not notice that all the media is talking about now is the public Option and why it matters and people defending it and not the stupidity of last week?
neil
“LBJ also did his work in the 1960s. In case you haven’t noticed, it ain’t the 60s.”
Mike
The ’60’s wasn’t exactly the Pleistocene.
But in terms of the Senate – nothing has changed at all – except the faces. The way you get things done is the same as it ever was.
Elie
cleek @ 83 —
Someone postulated that Obama is trying to level the role of the Executive Branch and trying to shift more power (and accountability) to the Congress. (Remember he is a Constitutional scholar). Prior to this administration, Bush had usurped way too much power to the Executive.
Having the Congress take this up and enact this legislation is therefore very important for more than for this specific initiative. It is very important that our Congress become enlivened again to put forward the interest of the people rather than being a rubber stamp for the Executive Branch.
Just a thought — someone else’s observation and knowledge but I think nevertheless very important…
CT
@Blue Neponset: Yes Yes Yes. This is about salesmanship. If you have a good idea that is as necessarily complicated as HCR, you need to have some selling points that hit emotionally. We should be hearing all about 1) Folks who thought they were fine, but lost insurance due to layoff, or their employer dropping it, or the premiums being jacked into the stratosphere, and 2) Some choice occasions when the insurance company denied service to a deserving patient for a bogus reason. As crappy as the current system is, people are used to it-we need to be reminded (those of us lucky enough not to have experienced either of the above) just how crappy it is. Obama has been good at hitting hard that the status quo is unsustainable financially, but we need more stuff that hits at the gut
Midnight Marauder
@media browski:
I’ve maintained for nearly a year now that I will judge Obama’s first term not by how many progressive policies he moves forward, but rather by how many Bush catastrophes he fixes.
That is chock full of win right there.
Midnight Marauder
@Ash Can @ 63:
Totally worth deciding to catch up with this thread. Fantastic post.
Midnight Marauder
@Elie:
Having the Congress take this up and enact this legislation is therefore very important for more than for this specific initiative. It is very important that our Congress become enlivened again to put forward the interest of the people rather than being a rubber stamp for the Executive Branch.
I totally co-sign on this. I think this is a very under-discussed aspect of how this entire health care reform process has played out so far.
Much the same thing with DADT, I would also offer.
drillfork
Bush also got the No Child Left Behind boondoggle through.
The beauty of this Health Care Debate is that the Republicans are against it just because they have to Stop Obama. And Obama’s just trying to pass anything without really disrupting the insurance companies’ ever-rising profit streams.
Not only is no one truly on our side, no one’s actually trying to do anything. The struggle is to see who can appear to be doing something. Awesome…
valdivia
@Elie:
yes it seems a lot of people need a civics lesson these days when they just want Obama to rule by decree or something. It also seems people forget how our government actually works when no one is usurping power from the executive.
The one thing I would like is to see chairmen in the senate get the gavel taken away more often. specially Baucus.
Elie
drillfork
“And Obama’s just trying to pass anything without really disrupting the insurance companies’ ever-rising profit streams.”
I don’t think that you can know what you state as a fact. Your cynicism aside, you have only incomplete information because we still only have several bills that are all works in progress. Besides that we have a lot of hot air from talking heads and pundits on the left and right spinning their take on what Obama is doing – or not.
You should know by now that this may be at best, a highly skewed and exagerrated for own self interest view of the political landscape. Where is your skepticism for them (the critics and pundits)? Why do you only reserve your skepticism for what the administration is trying to do? To me that is the interesting question…
kay
@Elie:
What he doesn’t have to do though, Elie, is let Conrad and the rest of the conservative Senators drive the whole debate.
Conrad and Baucus should not be announcing ultimatums or dodging deadlines, or making broad policy anouncements for the Democratic Party.
They’re not even representative of the rest of the country. We have a Democratic President and the rural conservatives are running the health care debate? I don’t care about what they draft. How did they end up as the policy experts for the whole Party, and country?
Elie
kay:
I don’t disagree but want to see it play out. Sometimes you have to let the dogs run and run until they exhaust themselves — an imperfect analogy but there is a lot of distorted energy in the Congress and the best way to get rid of it is to let it expose itself and run it to the ground…
valdivia:
I think those punishments will come, but not in the heat of the battle. You have to see your Generals in key battle situations to make an accurate assessment from which to execute the war plan. You run the horses and see who can take the mud and dust and who can’t.
Unfortunately there is no way to test that beforehand. Its done on the field of battle and I do believe there will ultimately be some changes made. As much as it seems to us that they are getting off easy, my guess is that they are experiencing a great deal of pressure and a lot of pain trying to bridge a lot of competing loyalties that have not been tested like this maybe ever — remember we have not had this much “action” in the legislature in a long time.
These dudes have had an easy time and been doing their sleazy deals with the devil with impunity — having it both ways. Now the reality is coming out clearly and this is the price that has to be paid to clean up this house… we have to let some of these guys fail and show their hand – there is no other good way to smoke them out otherwise…
Bruce (formerly Steve S.)
“Castigating Obama for not being another LBJ seems a little unfair to me.”
Nobody is castigating Obama for not being LBJ. Obama is being castigated because that’s what you do when a public official doesn’t do what you want. If you prefer a public option to co-ops how are you supposed to communicate that idea? Telepathy? Why are you a blogger if not to castigate?
Rob
Am I the first one to catch the 2pac ref? Well played.
Nick
The LBJ arm-twisting reputation is completely undeserved. He never changed a single vote on any piece of legislation by arm-twisting. He changed them by compromising.
Seems we do have an LBJ. We just don’t like it.