This should get Broder excited:
In an interview today on MSNBC’s “Morning Meeting with Dylan Ratigan,” Senate Finance Committee ranking member Chuck Grassley (R) said he’d vote against any health-care reform bill coming out of the committee unless it has wide support from Republicans — even if the legislation contains EVERYTHING Grassley wants.
Stop trying to negotiate with them, and replace the Democratic chairman who can not advance the ball. If this is worth doing, do it. Otherwise, can we just drop the whole subject and move on to something else for Conrad and Baucus to block?
The Moar You Know
Ummmm, what?
His agenda’s pretty clear – no bill at all.
eyepaddle
@The Moar You Know
Exactly.
Also, it’s been pretty clear that this has been his plan all along.
Leelee for Obama
Grassley should get kicked right in the ass on nationwide television. Just on spec. I am so sick of these asshats, I honestly am off my food, as they say in the UK. Can Iowa recall him and make him sell ethanol to Eskimos or some such shit? Why bother us with your “efforts” if nobody on your side of the aisle would vote for this bill if threatend with death? Asshat!
Turgidson
You would think that one of these comments by GrAsshat would finally persuade Obama and other leaders that there’s no fucking point in negotiating with him. But this is about the 37th thing he’s said that ought to have done the trick, and yet, here we are. How many times does he have to run his mouth off about how he’s against everything, loves death panels, and now saying he’d vote against a bill he himself wrote unless all the other GOP knuckle draggers voted for it too. WTF does this jackass have to say to be finally be put in timeout?
I’ve always thought Obama’s bipartisanship thing was sincere up to the point where it became clear that the other party can’t be reasoned with, and he’d do what he needs to do to get a good bill passed. I’m pretty much done thinking that now.
beltane
Montana and North Dakota must be health care paradises. Presumably, there are no uninsured or underinsured residents of those states, and no one ever has their claims denied or their policies canceled. It’s a veritable Teletubbie land out there on the high plains.
mcc
I think the best thing at this point is to aim for the house reconciliation option. We probably don’t have all 60 of the democratic votes in the Senate on our side anyway. We can and should let Baucus and whoever else in the Senate run out the clock and let the public see the Democrats take all possible steps to negotiate, and see the Republicans spurning all those steps– if we don’t at least give that doomed process its chance then it might scare off the fence-sitting senators we do have. But it should be clear that when october or whenever comes and no bill has been produced from the Senate, reconciliation will kick in and the House is going to produce one for them.
The Grassley/Baucus panel’s flakiness can serve as an excuse to keep this threat alive, and if the threat is alive and visible it might even help grease the Baucus process along.
General Winfield Stuck
The health care debate is dead to me until the Congress returns in September. Currently, it’s like doing play-by-play at the State Hospital.
Alan
It seems the Senate Democrats are doing everything in their power to make sure this former Republican doesn’t show up at the polls in 2010 to vote for anyone from the major parties. The Democrats suck, but not for the reasons the Right says they do.
Violet
Isn’t that like refusing to go do something fun with your friends unless the cheerleader who has never spoken to you agrees to go too?
I will never understand these people.
Comrade Jake
So, I assume that Grassley has Obama’s original birth certificate, from Kenya? What other explanation can there be for tolerating this guy who seems to enjoy walking around with his zipper down in front of everyone who’ll bother to notice?
gbear
I would love to be a fly on the wall in the white house when these republican and blue dog quotes get ‘discussed’ by Obama and his staff, before the ‘cool’ response is formulated. I really need to hear Obama say “Can you believe these assholes??”
Anne Laurie
Ah, the Rethuglican Hive Mind! Like fire ants or killer bees, the individual R-branded insects have sacrificed all personal autonomy in return for the protection of the horde. Any Rethuglican that wanders outside its colonial “sphere” will no longer be recognized by its genetic siblings, and would probably die of privation if its outraged ex-comrades didn’t destroy it first.
On the other hand, Obama was *not* elected as a wanna-Borg, and Grassley is giving him every reason to drop the bipartisanship talk as something impossible to implement with opponents who have nothing but bad faith to offer.
joes527
@General Winfield Stuck: more like doing play-by-play when only the democrats are on the field … and trying to explain how they are still managing to give up runs.
cleek
just note that Obama is not a Senator and has no authority over any Senator. he is doing what he can to get the bill past: i see him on TV giving speeches, i see commercials, i know he has multiple web sites, i get emails, etc.. the Senate is killing this effort, not Obama.
mantis
Ugh. Also.
Hey, our old pal Michael Goldfuck pulls a triple-lindy today, first executing a brilliant reverse, in which it’s the Democrats fault that people don’t know the death panels aren’t real, because they have not explained their health care proposals and instead spent their time calling the opposition Nazis(!), and then doubles back to proclaim that the Senate’s removal of end-of-life provisions proves the death panels were real all along!
Shorter Fuckhead:
Hey, if you grandma-killing Nazis hadn’t spent so much time being name-calling Nazis and explained your health care plan, Americans might understand that you Nazis don’t actually plan to kill grandma, except that you do. Nazis.
Punchy
It’s weeks/months like this that I am forever grateful to not be the host of a political blog. This is the most depressing stretch of Dem-run politics I can remember.
jcricket
Isn’t this the whole point? There is no reason to negotiate with Republicans (other than appearances). So just claim you are, and make sure the conservative and liberal Democrats can agree on something.
Truth is, you’ll probably get a couple moderate Republicans post-cloture (final bill vote) anyway. I’m not 100% sure, but I bet Snowe and Collins would vote for healthcare reform even with a public option, even with overwhelming pressure from their counterparts and even if they voted against cloture. The public pressure at that point (“you voted against healthcare reform?) would be too great.
I don’t understand why we can’t recognize the dynamic at work. Yes, the conservative Dems are a “problem”, but they’re a hell of a lot easier to pressure than Republicans are.
So, ignoring what the media reports (which is making it seem like Republican objections matter, when their minority status makes this barely important at all) – the Dems should be focusing solely on their own caucus.
Napoleon
@Turgidson:
The WH knows they have no intention of voting for the plan. I do not have a link handy, but over the weekend I read someone who quoted an unnamed administration official who said if they gave the Republican’s everything they wanted none of them would vote for the bill.
Lee from NC
@joes527:
Perfect analogy.
JenJen
On “Morning Joe” today, Howard Dean reiterated that no Republicans are ever, ever, ever going to vote for any kind of meaningful health care reform The most Democrats could hope to accomplish from negotiating with them is a watered-down, ineffective plan that ends up being another lucrative giveaway to the insurance industry, and even then, Republicans are still probably going to vote against it and let you own it.
I wish he were screaming it from treetops and everybody would listen, because this is very central to the so-called national “debate”.
Dr. I. F. Stone
I don’t think Mr. Cole understands the meaning of thr word, “bipartisanship.” Grassley is clearly stating that unless the bill meets most Republican’s criteria, then he will not support it, irregardless of his own personal views on the issues. That’s pretty much the definition of bipartisanship as that term would be generally understood.
Alan in SF
Simultaneously, Max Baucus and Kent Conrad announced that they would vote for any bill that had widespread Democratic support, even if it contained some measures they didn’t like.
Oh, wait. They didn’t.
It was any bill that had widespread Republican support they said they’d vote for.
The Grand Panjandrum
Ezra was on the TV and wrote about Grassley’s appearance:
I don’t know this for a fact but it would not surprise that the Obama team set up this entire healthcare reform process by setting out guidelines and then asking Congress to create legislation as a way to give them ownership of that process. Now that Congressional Democrats own this process they have to pass something or they are the losers. Not Obama. The progressives in the House will not vote for a bill that does not include a public option. The pushback has already started.
Cheer up, mates. The fun is just beginning! Wait until we have a House and Senate bill. THEN the crazy shit will start.
donovong
There is no good reason for Obama to drop the appearance of doing everything possible to encourage “bipartisanship” until there is a bill going into reconciliation. That is when I expect any hammers to be dropped on asshats like Grassley or Blue Dipshits or whatever obstructionists are in the way. Anything that happens until then is nothing more than preparing the ground.
Talk to me in late September.
srv
Why surrender now, when we can dribble out the defeat as long as possible?
Meyer
I hope that they hold off as long as possible and let these asshats continue to rant. I mean, seriously, you want a case for eliminating the filibuster? Can’t get better than this.
No need to threaten it, just do it. Then let’s take a good look at cap&trade, fix DOMA, and all the other good stuff.
Fuck them.
Chad N Freude
@JenJen:
Um … perhaps not an optimal strategy.
Makewi
When NBC’s Chuck Todd, in a follow-up question on the show, asked the Iowa Republican if he’d vote against what Grassley might consider to be a “good deal” — i.e., gets everything he asks for from Senate Finance Chairman Max Baucus (D) — Grassley replied, “It isn’t a good deal if I can’t sell my product to more Republicans.”
What great journalism. Grassley says “good deal” and MSNBC interprets that to mean “gets everything he asks for from Senate Finance Chairman Max Baucus” and then runs with it as if that is what he said. I’d say it’s unbelievable but then it is MSNBC, which is like journalism only much less so.
Roger Moore
@Dr. I. F. Stone:
No. Real bipartisanship involves a degree of compromise, with each side giving up some cherished ideas in order to come to an agreement that gives everybody something. The Republicans seem to think that “bipartisan” means that they get everything they want and the Democrats pound sand. It’s much more like a third grader’s whining that if they don’t get what they want, they’ll take their ball and go home than any conventional idea of bipartisanship. Unfortunately, careful compromise is impossible when the Republicans define what they want primarily in terms of opposing whatever the Democrats want, rather than anything that makes sense as a coherent policy.
General Winfield Stuck
Herein lies the double flip triple axle dismount of GOP strategy. Grassely is saying he is earnestly debating with dems as a US Senator, for the apparent purpose of showing GOP willingness to debate. While at the same time saying he will not support a bill that his winger buds won’t support, who have shown zilch willingness to debate on any level, unless you consider debate as prodding wingnut mobs to show up and scream Soshulist and Hitler. Because any damn fool can see that they want nothing, because they don’t want any bill whatsoever to pass. And is the reason they should be ignored, and ignored with extreme prejudice.
It is the Seinfeld strategy of engaging in a debate about nothing.
I have a headache.
Turgidson
@cleek:
Yeah, I know. I’m not upset at Obama to nearly the same extent as the weasel Dems in the Senate (and the GOP is so far gone there’s no reason to even be mad at them, except when they say particularly offensive things). I just think Obama can be more forceful and stop saying things like “a few GOP senators such as Grasshat and Enzi are negotiating in good faith.” THEY’RE NOT!!!! How many times does Grassley have to say horrible things that make it clear he’s an enemy to any real reform before he’ll stop being praised??? There’s no need to treat them as crucial actors in this – in my opinion, there never was, but there’s REALLY no reason now. And if Obama stops saying things like that, it becomes easier for congressional leaders to drop them like a bad habit too.
I guess that was my point.
Shygetz
Pull this damn thing out of the farce that is the Finance Committee. This is a pointless waste of time and perfectly good oxygen. Get a damned bill on the floor and debate the thing, then vote. The Finance Committee obviously ain’t getting it done.
Robertdsc-iphone
Conrad is already fucking that up by being part of a group of DINOs who want to separate the climate change & new energy portions into separate bills rather than taking them together. Landrieu & Nelson are also in this group.
Tsulagi
Praise the Lord for that. Otherwise, according to Grassley, the Democrats would have had a bill out in June and passed already. Death panels would already be a way of life.
Subordinating all to the Democratic quest for the holy bipartisanship grail…strategery in action.
Kryptik
Remember folks.
Bipartisanship when Republicans are in charge means Democrats need to bend to the needs of the Republicans.
Bipartisanship when Democrats are in charge means Democrats need to bend to the needs of the Republicans.
General Winfield Stuck
And here is another case of Obama paying tribute to the mad mob. If he doesn’t beam out of bi-partisan la la land soon, the window will close and he will become a permanent guest in the wingnut asylum.
JenJen
@Chad N Freude: YeeeeeeaaaaarrRRGGGHH!!!
Tonal Crow
Um, Pres. Obama, Congressional Democrats, et al, maybe you haven’t heard the GOP’s mantra. On the off chance I’m correct, here it is:
Now you tell me how you “negotiate” with that.
Montysano (All Hail Marx & Lennon)
WALL STREET CELEBRATES APPARENT DEATH OF PUBLIC HEALTH OPTION
Health Insurance Companies’ Stocks Spike, Buck “Bearish Trend”
No one could have predicted…etc.
Ash Can
@Napoleon:
This. Barack Obama didn’t get as far as he did as quickly as he did by not being able to understand his opposition or correctly read situations. Nor has he made it a practice to surround himself with morons. I’m willing to believe he wishes this were a bipartisan success, and I’m willing to believe that he’s making attempts to make it look like one, but I’m not willing to believe that he’s relying on it.
On top of this, the onus isn’t even on him at this point to get something done. It’s on Congress, where he put it in the first place. He can participate in this kabuki stage, to be sure — and elaborate kabuki it is, too — making gestures and saying things calculated to have this effect or bring that reaction. In the end, though, he’ll be the one — and the only one — to say “this is a good bill and I’m going to sign it” or “this is a piece of crap; try again.”
In the meantime, the congresscritters can scurry around and engage in their own kabuki. I personally am not sure how committed to bipartisan results (as opposed to bipartisan effort) any of the Dems are at this point, especially after Baucus was made to look like a fool. Making their corporate sponsors (in this case, the insurance industry) happy is one thing, and could prove to be the biggest (if not the only real) hurdle in the long run, but actually finding and securing common ground with their GOP colleagues, I don’t know. I should think they’d be well aware that the Republicans ultimately aren’t going to support or cooperate with the Dems in anything that isn’t small enough to fly completely under the radar screen of public knowledge. And if they’re not, then they deserve whatever embarrassment and ridicule comes their way.
Deborah
I concur. I’m all for bipartisanship, but it has been made crystal clear that if you want to call yourself “Republican” in Congress you need to have hysterical hissy fits (death panels, Stephen Hawking’s failure to die) no matter what is proposed. So pass something you think is good, and run on it.
The Dems seem perilously close to delivering squat on Health Care despite our giving them the presidency, control of both houses, and 60 votes in the Senate. If you can’t pass something half decent with those kind of numbers, there’s no reason to keep voting Dem. (I won’t vote Republican until they stop being flat-out crazy, but I am not the nation as a whole.) In fact, they risk health insurance reform becoming one of those “Nixon to China” things that the Republicans could argue in a few years only they can pass. (“Clinton tried, Obama tried, the Dems just can’t do it. But elect Sanford and health reform will happen.”)
Montysano (All Hail Marx & Lennon)
Let me try this again:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/17/insurers-stocks-rise-as-p_n_261245.html
Ash Can
@Montysano (All Hail Marx & Lennon): Believe me, it doesn’t take much to move the market. Stock traders make the houses of Congress look like models of sanity and orderliness. And that’s assuming that market movements are even interpreted correctly by the people reporting on them. I wouldn’t read much into this.
IndieTarheel
@Dr. I. F. Stone:
That word Grassyass (and apparently you) keep using…I do not think it means what you think it means.In fact, I can state with metaphysical certitude that it doesn’t mean what you think it means. What you have described is more aptly defined by the words “prison bitch.”