In my district, NY-29, the 2010 race is already under way, pitting Republican Corning mayor Tom Reed against Democratic incumbent Eric Massa. Reed’s rhetoric on health care is pathetic.
Reed said he took a quick look at the bill on the Internet and decided not to waste his time reading it because health care that is run and controlled by the government is philosophically the wrong direction for the nation to go
That’s the kind of hard work and dedication we expect from our public servants. Here’s Reed’s own solution for health care:
“What I’m talking about is taking the compensation that is going to employees now to pay for their health care through the employer and earmarking that money, dedicating that money, to the individual, to the employee, and making sure that money has to go to health care coverage and forcing the individual to use that money to solicit health insurance plans that best fit that individual’s situation,” he said.
Now, Reed is an idiot who will never serve in Congress, so it’s not completely fair to tar other Republicans with the same brush. That said, this gibberish is pretty typical of what Republicans are saying about health care. I’m not even sure what he’s trying to describe, though I think it may be something along the lines of the McCain health care plan. And I don’t see how his plan, if you can call it that, isn’t “controlled by the government” when it involves “forcing the individual” to do things.
One of the things that’s most striking about the health care debate is the lack of a serious alternative from Republicans.
(via F29th)
Tokyokie
Alternative plan? Why offer an alternative when you already have the greatest healthcare system in the world?
Cat Lady
Which comes first – being a pasty doughboy or a right wing fucktard?
Davis X. Machina
It’s clear that they have zero problem with using the coercive power of the state, only with who gets to use it, and to whose benefit. So long as it’s them, it’s just dandy. ‘Freedom’, my ass.
JK
The more articles I read on this healthcare debate, the more seriously bummed out I get. The Republicans are almost universally full of shit, but the MSM inexplicably keeps carrying water for these bastards. I hope that Rachel Maddow wipes the floor with Dick Armey and Tom Coburn on Meet the Press this morning.
Leelee for Obama
Authoritarianism is alive and well, and coming to a health-care plan near you. If Libertarians and Constitutionalists don’t sink this asshole quick-Massa won’t even have to campaign. I hope they don’t know that.
Shalimar
I live in the district of Alabama conservative Democrat Bobby Bright, and got a health care mailer from him the other day. He’s committed to making health care in this country better and looking out for the health care needs of his constituents, he says. But if you read between the lines it’s pretty clear he’s opposed to any reform legislation. Which makes you wonder what he could possibly do to make health care better if he isn’t willing to do anything through his actual job.
I wish all of these a-holes would have the guts to actually campaign on eliminating medicare and then we could see how popular this anti-government crap really is.
asiangrrlMN
Oh good god. Just when I thought the stupid couldn’t get any stupider, I have to read this asshat. Well, I don’t HAVE to read him, I guess, but that’s just the masochist in me.
When is Rachel on? I want y’all to break it down for me because I’m not sure I can bear to watch.
Jean
Rachel is doing great. Daschle is also doing fine with facts and stats. Armey and Coburn are lying through their teeth, and Dick Gregory spins questions in the negative, does not push back at all against lies. “What is Obama doing wrong?”
“Let’s hear from the Chamber of Commerce on why the public option is bad,” etc. I’m sorry I tuned in during an otherwise peaceful Sunday morning.
geg6
As I mentioned in the last thread (always a dollar short and a day late), CBS Sunday Morning had the opening segment dedicated to ACTUAL FACTS about the health care reforms being floated and busted the myths quite straightforwardly. It was wonderful to see. It was done matter of factly with plain language and no nonsense about calling out nonsense and what the political motivations are. Very good stuff. No false equivalence. Amazing.
asiangrrlMN
On Meet the Press, that is.
@Shalimar: No kidding. The Dems need to be driving this point home. Over and over. Every time a Republican speaks on teh horrors of government-run health care.
JK
@asiangrrlMN:
My understanding is that the entire Meet the Press program will be devoted to a roundtable discussion with Rachel Maddow and Tom Daschle on one side vs. Dick Armey and Tom Coburn on the other side.
Meet the Press airs from 10:30 – 11:30 EDT.
asiangrrlMN
@Jean: Thanks. I think I might give it a skip. I can only take so much lying bullshit, and I have exceeded my limit on the topic of health care, grassroots movements, and the GOP.
El Cid
Republicans hate having to talk about this stuff anyway.
Oh, people are having problems paying their medical bills? Boo-hoo. Oh, no, they have to wait for a doctor until they have to go to an emergency room? Cry me a river.
And, yeah, poor people have higher infant mortality and lower lifespan statistics — what, you say that like this is a bad thing.
They sound flummoxed and disregarding of policy because they cannot be honest about what they’d rather the policy do and be purposed for.
JK
@Jean:
I would have preferred Howard Dean instead of Tom Daschle on Meet the Press.
Daschle is tainted by his tax problem. I don’t forgive him for fucking Obama over by allowing his name to be submitted for HHS Secy when he knew damn well the tax scandal would be discovered by the MSM and blow up in Obama’s face.
JK
@Jean:
“Dick Gregory” I think you meant David Gregory, but satirist and activist Dick Gregory would certainly be a huge improvement over David Gregory.
DougJ
As bad as Russert was, Gregory is worse. He’s a nonentity.
AhabTRuler
@JK: Or, perhaps, David “Dick” Gregory.
arguingwithsignposts
The Republican plan for health care:
1. No.
2. ?????
3. Profit!
Did I miss something?
kommrade reproductive vigor
Why do more and more of these bacon streaks sound like Palin? I kept expecting to see random Also’s sprinkled through his statement.
Hmmm. Sort of like an HSA.
You silly! Reed’s plan would force the proles to race around trying to find a health insurance plan that doesn’t deem getting a splinter at age 5 a pre-existing condition that makes them ineligible for coverage. (Without following the link I’m assuming Reed doesn’t dare suggest the poor old insurance plans should be forced to do jack.)
As an added bonus, when the good-for-nothing employee didn’t get coverage it would clearly be all his fault. Didn’t the government tell him to take his money and get insurance? Well then. This would allow Reed and his buddies at AHIP to scoff at the lazy deadbeat while they eat caviar and give hand jobs in praise of the mighty Free Market.
The GOP – No original ideas, just bad ones.
Leelee for Obama
Does CBS stream this on their website? I didn’t watch today to keep things quiet for the Mom. I kind of thought the MTP would suck and Sunday Morning is my default-damn!
Brian J
That’s true, but it only covers half the problem: what to do about the uninsured. But yes, if the Republicans were proposing some combination of mild nudges for lifestyle changes, like some plan to get kids to exercise more, with the main focus being Health Savings Accounts with catastrophic coverage, nobody would be accusing them of anything bad.There would be a serious debate about whether that would work, but that would be a debate worth having. Instead, we have them accusing the Democrats of trying to kill old people and turn the country into the former Soviet Union.
A side note: the idea of HSA-style vehicles is definitely appealing. There’s some evidence that they actually do work, although it’s not clear if it’s because they are attracting the percentage of the population that doesn’t particularly need coverage (relatively young, healthy, and with decent wealth). I’m not sure of all the details, but even if it’s part of a larger package of experiments, it’s not so outlandish to not be worth a try.
The problem is that bringing this concept to those who can’t afford it would require tax increase to finance subsidies. There’s a greater chance of Megan Fox, Maria Sharapova, and Anne Hathaway fighting a death match to win my affections than the Republicans voting for a tax increase.
You also have to wonder why they aren’t voting to change the incentive structure for Medicare, as was discussed in that famous Gawande article about two Texas towns in The New Yorker. A few weeks ago, I went back and forth with some commentators on Marginal Revolution because I couldn’t understand what they and Alex Tabarrok were trying to say. Their point was that, since the people who are using fee-for-service practices to support their incomes are trying to buy off the Democrats, any cost savings from Medicare are not going to happen. I guess that’s possible, but if you accept the underlying premise–that changing the incentives can yield massive, massive savings, essentially eliminating the huge problems a few decades from now–which everybody seems to do, you can’t get angry that people are trying to change the status quo. In fact, I wonder why the Republicans, the alleged responsible stewards of the budget, aren’t joining with the Democrats to make sure the system is changed like that. Is it because they don’t want to hand the Democrats a win? I can’t think of any other reason.
El Cid
Dick Armey: “The MoveOn ad they run comparing Bush to Hitler.”
Leelee for Obama
In fact, I wonder why the Republicans, the alleged responsible stewards of the budget, aren’t joining with the Democrats to make sure the system is changed like that. Is it because they don’t want to hand the Democrats a win?
Yes.
This answer has been a presented as a public service.
El Cid
Dick Armey: Nancy Pelosi basically brought it on themselves.
Tom Coburn: Sure, there shouldn’t be threats of violence, but, hey, the government has scared people.
El Cid
Rachel Maddow is introducing Dick Armey to actual journalism. It’s fascinating.
Jean
David Gregory is a “dick.” But, yes, it’s David. Freudian slip. Daschle sounded great compared to the same old discredited Republicans who are brought in EVERY SUNDAY. Otherwise, I agree and don’t forgive him either for the HHS secretary debacle. I would have preferred Howard Dean too, but on MTP, you’re lucky to have one Dem against three, and usually the Dem is centrist. The Republican plan, according to Coburn and Armey, is “Let the Private Cos. compete against each other!” “Let people buy insurance from other states.” Really, they have nothing but “NO” and “Status Quo”
Gregory does nothing but read questions spun in the negative and then sit there.
Rottenchester
DougJ is a little more confident than I am about Reed. He has a fighting chance in a relatively conservative district, especially in an off-year election.
That said, he’s really put his foot in it already. Like his predecessor, Randy Kuhl, I think he’s listening to the idiots at the NRCC and House Republican caucus. The House Republicans are especially bad practical politicians because they’re all in safe seats and regularly get away with saying stupid shit like “I didn’t even read the bill”.
El Cid
David Gregory actually just played Grassley’s turd blast about unplugging Grandma and clarified that nothing in the bill would have that, and just asked Coburn if the Republican prescription drug bill didn’t have the exact same language that led to the outrageous “death panels” fraudulent propaganda attack.
T. O'hara
Er, if the proposal on the table is a government takeover of health care, isn’t the logical alternative for the government not to take over health care? Just sayin’.
Leelee for Obama
Dick Armey: Nancy Pelosi basically brought it on themselves.
Tom Coburn: Sure, there shouldn’t be threats of violence, but, hey, the government has scared people.
Translation:
Armey: I am full of shit, and have nothing constructive to say.
Coburn: I am bat-shit crazy, as well as full of shit and have nothing constructive to say. And BTW-we scared people just as effectively to our wars on. It’s surprising the Democrat Party hasn’t learned how to battle our horse-shit.
Presented as a public service.
JK
@DougJ:
Gregory is also a lousy fucking dancer.
Every time I look at Gregory, I think of that stupid goddamn rap routine he did with Karl Rove at one of those asinine corresspondents’ dinners – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdvHwtRdg_I
NBC News should be ashamed of itself for putting their flagship news program in the hands of a reporter ready, willing, and able to make a monumental jackass out of himself.
Jean
Some panel on MTP: As others above have said, “Pelosi!” “MoveOn!” “Scary Government!” “Taxes!” BOO! It was Rachel, to some extent, Daschle, and two Tea Party Boys from Alice in Wonderland.
El Cid
Daschle just thumped Coburn’s attack on “comparative effectiveness” reviews as maybe killing 30% of patients by pointing out that the private Mayo clinic uses it. ‘Buh, but, they, uh, don’t use it the same way.’
Leelee for Obama
@El Cid:
Headline: blind squirrel finds nut. Film at 11.
Must admit I’m slightly amazed at this.
DougJ
He has a fighting chance in a relatively conservative district, especially in an off-year election.
Perhaps. But I don’t see him raising much money. I’m surprised they couldn’t find a better candidate.
Sly
Reed is basically saying that employers will continue to fund medical insurance for their employees, but they will not be the group making the purchase. Employees will go out in the market and buy it for themselves.
Quite possibly the worst way to do HCR, and that’s including the actual creation of euthanasia committees to determine whether grandma lives or dies. He’s essentially taking the worst aspects of employer-funded insurance (you lose it when you lose your job, and it becomes a drain on your wages due to uncontrolled medical inflation) and the worst aspect of the individual purchasing market (you don’t have price and consumer protections from a larger pool) and combining them together to form a single system of absolute suck.
Kennedy
One of the things that’s most striking about the health care debate is the lack of a serious alternative from Republicans.”
Isn’t that the case with EVERY major recent legislative initiative? The Republican ‘alternative’ is one of two things: tax cuts, or “we’ll get back to you.”
1) Stimulus Bill: Republican “Alternative” = moar tax cuts!11
2) Obama’s Budget: Republican “Alternative” = details? Actual numbers? Erm, we’ll get back to you!
3) Healthcare: Republican “Alternative” = We’ll get back to you/mass spread of errant bull shit and fear
DougJ, you just got done finished saying in another post that you don’t know why the media gives credence to a party that deserves none, and yet you act surprised that they are not offering a serious alternative to healthcare. They are not a serious party. Also.
asiangrrlMN
My niece just told me she doesn’t like Obama because he will make it so that if parents don’t want their baby, the nurses will starve said baby. She’s eleven.
That thunking sound you hear is the repeated intersection of my head and my desk.
I usually try to say, “Oh, really? That’s interesting. Tell me more,” but not this time. I said, “That just isn’t true.” Sigh. From the mouth of babes.
CalD
Don’t get sick is not an alternative?
opium4themasses
Oh boy. I can’t wait till every company starts buying their health coverage from providers in DE or whichever state wins the race to the bottom of the regulation barrel. Thus, making insurance regulations in every state roughly equivalent to the state with the most lax regulations and rendering their insurance laws irrelevant.
In a previous lifetime, the same groups (not party due to the Southern Strategy) screamed about states’ rights. Of course, that was all smoke and mirrors.
JK
What personal insult will Dick Armey level against Rachel Maddow to top his coment to Joan Walsh on Hardball that he was thankful “She wasn’t his wife”?
CalD
@opium4themasses:
Montysano
@Shalimar: I’m up the road from you in AL-5, with DINO Parker Griffith. Griffith is an MD, an oncologist, and is opposed to any real reform. In 2008, I was forced to hold my nose and pull the lever for him because his GOP opponent was far worse.
So far, Griffith has avoided an announced town hall here in Huntsville. We’re at the heart of the military/industrial complex, and the engineers who work in the bomb/bullet biz are some of the most batshit insane rightwingers I’ve ever met, so when Griffith does have a town hall, it’ll be ugly.
Just curious: where in AL-2 are you? (feel free not to answer).
El Cid
WTF? Why the hell did Charlie Rangel just accuse the questioner at the Montana forum of Obama as ‘spreading hate’? I wonder if he even listened?
And on that questioner, how is it that Mr. Cowboy accent stands up and says that Obama and nobody have said how they’re going to pay for this and oh yeah you say you’re going to cut here and move this from there — and not see some conflict?
You know, even if you move budget funds from one existing program to a new program, that’s how you pay for a lot of it. It doesn’t make it unreal or ‘fairy’ money.
El Cid
@CalD: There’s not a chronological factor.
When ‘States’ Rights’ favor right wing goals, they’re in favor of having states override federal initiatives.
When ‘States’ Rights’ favor goals contrary to the right wingers, they’re in favor of having the federal government override state initiatives.
There’s no conflict here; hypocrisy, yes, but conflict, no.
Leelee for Obama
@El Cid: Can’t answer on Rangel-sometimes he froths-he’s old.
On the other, funding thing-that’s where people are thinking they will lose their precious non-Government Medicare benefits. It’s obviously OK to waste money on them-they earned it, after all. Everybody else has to wait while they sap the last of the juice from the tree. It’s the “Murikin Way, too. Also.
Brian J
I tend to be a little more forgiving when it comes to having certain members of the press on the Sunday morning shows, since a lot of times they do present information that you might not hear anywhere else. This doesn’t make up for the fact that some of them serve no valuable purpose, but we shouldn’t lump the good with the useless.
That said, if these shows are trying to stand out, why aren’t they going for a wider range of guests? I have no idea what it takes to get on one of these shows, but if it’s anything like a talk show, it’s a few hundred bucks a pop. There are almost certainly enough “opinion makers” and those who want to be in that group who have valuable insights that would love to make an appearance of two. The same can be said for academics, who, even if they don’t like the sum of money they might be receiving, would probably like the ego massage by being asked. After all, they probably aren’t going for some random academic from some good for relatively unknown school. They’d be going for the Brad DeLongs, the Paul Krugmans, the Tyler Cowens, the Greg Mankiws, and so on.
El Cid
Rachel just dealt the Dick Armey a huge setback by pointing out on the panel that he is, in fact, opposed to both Medicare and Social Security, and that this is his lobby group.
Shalimar
@arguingwithsignposts: The Republican plan for health care:
1. No.
2. ?????
3. Profit!
Did I miss something?
2. Insurance companies screw their customers as soon as they get sick.
Unlike most Republican plans, at least they know where the profit comes from in this case.
opium4themasses
So States’ Rights when they can’t make it a federal directive and Central Planning when they can.
Federalist papers to support the States’ Rights and references to the sacrifices made in World War II for Central Planning. Makes me think of the old Burlesque fan dances. Too bad the only thing being teased isn’t something people want to see.
El Cid
@opium4themasses: Okay, here’s an example: the Southern segregationist Democrats absolutely opposed any of FDR’s New Deal labor protections extending to agricultural workers, but most of them (not all) excitedly welcomed federal spending for new public utility projects such as electrification and dams and public health programs and other money related benefits.
They wanted the federal government to do as much as possible to outlaw or avoid gay marriages and wanted to prevent states from being able to make that decision.
HRA
The real sorrow of the idea that people will go out and buy their own insurance is when you have to weigh whether to buy groceries, pay utilities and the mortgage. I had to weigh that option quite a few times back when a job was terminated and I tried paying for health insurance. After 2 months I had to drop it. That was when you had to pay for any health care. There were no free emergency rooms. Of course, my eldest daughter got ill – strep throat, rhematic fever, juvenile rheumatoid arthritis. Two hospital stays I had to pay before they released her. TG the doctors opted for no pay.
I really know what some people are experiencing.
JK
Dick Armey is an absolute, jaw dropping, take your breath away disgrace.
opium4themasses
@El Cid: The mention of States’ Rights always makes me think of civil rights legislation first instead of more recent examples. But I agree they can contemporaneously hold conflicting views about States’ Rights depending on the political expediency.
Like Bobby Jindal opposing TARP funds and then having a photo op passing a massive check with his signature on it doling out TARP funds.
JK
@Brian J:
You have to seriously lower your expectations when it comes to the Sunday talk shows. They’ll never book any guests who might rock the boat too heavily.
Karmakin
@Sly: Excepting all the things you said (which are absolutely true), there actually is a way to make such a plan work without having to raise taxes….
Drop the pre-overtime work week, including salaried employees (Who would get either additional pay or punitive..for the employer..vacation time, say an extra hour and a half of vacation for every overtime hour worked) to 32 hours a week or so. This right here would create a lot of new jobs, creating a much more competitive market for labor, raising wages.
And if that doesn’t work, you raise the minimum wage to a point where a 32-hour workweek is comfortably above the poverty line.
Fixing the broken (on purpose) labor market I think is the lowest level way to fix an awful lot of economic..and social issues.
JD Rhoades
“What I’m talking about is taking the compensation that is going to employees now to pay for their health care through the employer and earmarking that money, dedicating that money, to the individual, to the employee, and making sure that money has to go to health care coverage and forcing the individual to use that money to solicit health insurance plans that best fit that individual’s situation,” he said.
Were I Emperor for a Day, my first decree would be that any asshole who spouts this kind of bullshit would immediately have his group or government health insurance policy revoked and have to scramble to buy health insurance as an individual, like I did. It’s a goddamn nightmare, and this bloated sack of shit has no idea of how bad it is, or how badly you get treated by insurance companies who know they have you by the balls in that situation.
El Cid
@opium4themasses: Well, there’s a good reason for that, too — they’ll only use the honorific term “States’ Rights” when it helps them achieve what they want.
When it comes to, say, opposing states’ rights to recognize gay marriage, then the debate comes down to the ‘homosexual agenda’ or the ‘destruction of marriage’ — they would never bring up the phrase ‘States’ Rights’ when it hurts their reactionary agenda.
Zach
Oh God, This Week has to be the worst political show (excepting MTP when Broder is on, although Will is almost always on This Week). Anne Kornblut just said about Palin, “Now we’re back to the question of whether she’s crazy or whether she’s crazy like a fox,” in response to her Facebook post that everyone on the panel thinks was quite brilliant about death panels. Because getting herself mentioned in the national media is apparently the only thing worth being concerned with.
Jesus, Tapper: “Is this as much a sign of Gov. Palin’s savvy or strength as much as a sign of weakness of the Obama administration?”
And as far as GOP alternatives go, at least the McCain/etc plan of eliminating the employer contribution is a good one relative to the status quo. That and banning state regulation (good suggestion from the states’ rights party btw) are the only serious GOP plans besides eliminating Medicaid and letting poor (aka lazy) people die. Dick Armey was just on MTP spilling the beans that his camp won’t compromise if the public option’s dropped… as if that were in doubt.
Shalimar
@T. O’hara: Er, if the proposal on the table is a government takeover of health care, isn’t the logical alternative for the government not to take over health care? Just sayin’.
No, because that wouldn’t fix any of the problems with the current system (i.e. outrageously over-bloated costs, rescission for many when they get sick, the 10s of millions who don’t have health care at all, etc.). Our healthcare system is messed up, and you can’t fix it by simply cutting the amount of money the country spends unless you really are in favor of cutting off care to sick citizens everywhere and letting them die en masse. I have been led by this “death board” nonsense to believe that Republicans are against that. Just sayin’,
@Montysano: I’m just off the interstate almost halfway between Montgomery and Mobile. Basically in the middle of nowhere, as rural as you can get. I will move to a more sane state eventually, but I take care of my 84 year old grandmother (who has alzheimers) and she grew up here so it won’t be while she is still with us.
El Cid
Chris Matthews is in his glory today. He’s got a bunch of centrist chatterers (the brilliant Kathleen Parker) telling him that Obama has no coherent policy plan and is a-skeering America with all the spending (some other idiot female panelist complained that the federal government is spending all this money while we’re trying to climb out of a crisis — thank you, Amity Schlaes clone # 594), and he just needs to give a big middle finger to the left and step back from all that damn troublemaking agenda.
Fuck these idiots. They have literally zero grasp on any major issues and throw around idiot gossip as serious policy discussion and jack off on idiot right wing spin and these people are paid a lot of money to share these important perspectives with us on our Archer-Daniels-Midland supported Sunday talk shows.
lotus
Well, according to the AP, Sebelius just allowed as how the public option and EoL counseling are BOTH outta there.
Do they have any sticking point anywhere?
Zach
FYI the Bush/Hitler MoveOn ads referenced are from when MoveOn had a user-generated ad contest during the ’04 cycle … they were removed from the site after being discovered.
…
I’m starting to think that this is all part of Obama’s master plan to wait for shit to get really out of hand and say, “Congress, shut up, you can’t figure shit out so here’s a single-payer health bill. It will save hundreds of billions of dollars and tens of thousands of lives a year, and you can still buy private insurance if you want. Vote for it if you like it and against it if you don’t. I’ll veto any bill that comes back to me that spends a dime more than this or provides worse care than this or insures fewer people than this.”
Zach
I’m still 99% sure that the Finance committee is going to come up with some neutered compromise bill that’ll eventually be the Senate bill not too long after the recess is over. The conference committee will return a bill that’s essentially the House bill with some meaningless concessions that make it seem to be a compromise. GOP Senators will be steamed but no Dems will join a filibuster and risk a “voted for it before they voted against it” attack.
That’s exactly what happened with the stimulus bill. The vaunted compromise by Bayh/McCaskill/Snowe/etc was ignored and all of the good spending they cut for no reason was just added back.
kay
@El Cid:
Kathleen Parker should be ashamed of herself. She wrote a ridiculous column where she said people misunderstood advanced directives, so Congress needed an affirmative clause in there that said discussions would be voluntary.
She was covering Palin’s ass, and she knows better. She’s a hack.
In the last twenty years, not a single person in any state with an advanced directive statute or policy felt “coerced”. Just lunatic conservatives at tea parties.
El Cid
@kay: No, while I was watching Parker did not suggest that the EOL stuff was Obama scaring people — it’s that they were scared by the volume of spending.
Good thing FDR didn’t listen to such idiots.
Leelee for Obama
@Zach: This would cause the first spontaneous orgasm I will have had in over a decade. Just the thought has my heart thumping! Yes, I am easily pleased.
kay
@El Cid:
Remember all the hand-wringing from pundits when Bush rammed through a radical Right agenda?
Yeah. Me neither. He was “forceful” and “determined” and “principled” and Chris Matthews had what amounted to an embarrassing crush on him.
El Cid
@kay: Sure, but a radical Right wing agenda may destroy the nation and throw the world into chaos, but it isn’t liberal populism which threatens to redistribute our economy so that it produces wealth for the vast majority instead of just a shrinking elite, so any right wing agenda, no matter how dangerous, is generally preferable. And also not dirty and stinky like all the hippies.
steve s
Zach, I hope you’re right.
JK
@Zach: @El Cid:
I think John Cole was correct when he said that he’d stopped watching the Sunday shows because they were a total waste of time.
The Sunday shows combined have maybe 2 or 3 liberals, 6 or 7 centrists, 10 or 11 conservatives and they call that fucking balanced.
One Sunday, I ‘d like to channel surf between all these shows and be able to see Glenn Greenwald, Dan Froomkin, Matt Taibbi, Thomas Frank, Joe Conason, Laura Flanders, Amy Goodman, Joan Walsh, Katrina Vanden Heuvel, Jeff Madrick, Dean Baker, and Paul Krugman.
jcricket
@lotus: No. SASQ.
We compromise before we start, then compromise some more, then usually give in completely, and call it a day.
Oh well, we tried, right? And that’s what matters.
This is why I think Dems need to internalize what Krugman was saying about compromising, even 100%, getting you nothing. If you start from the place of “we have the majorities, we won the election, and we’re right, want to come on board?” instead of “gee, it’d be nice to get a lot of you on board, b/c otherwise people might see us as rude” it might help.
b-psycho
The Dem should twist that nonsense around: “Tom Reed wants to FORCE you to buy insurance!”
Steeplejack
@asiangrrlMN:
Did you ask her where she heard that?
RSA
Solicit?!
“Please, sir, may I have some health insurance? I have a family history of cancer, but I’ll contribute everything I can from my minimum wage earnings.”
“Smithers–loose the hounds.”
T. O'hara
Even granting your unspoken assumption (i.e., “something must be done,” a proposition currently rejected by a majority of the electorate), isn’t a government takeover a binary solution set? It’s either a good idea or bad idea, no?
Martin
I vote indefinite detention and stress positions until the individual picks the right policy. Why not stick with proven methods?
Corner Stone
@Martin: From the wildly underrated Eurotrip:
“Madame Vandersexxx: Administer the testicle clamps! “
Mark S.
@lotus:
Wow, that depressed he hell out of me.
I’m not a health care expert, but I’m pretty damn sure co-ops will do nothing to reduce health care spending, which is 16% of GDP and rising fast.
Mark S.
Geez, when is the edit function coming back?
Comrade Kevin
@T. O’hara:
Since that isn’t the proposal on the table, that’s irrelevant.
YellowJournalism
As far as the reading goes, you have to remember that these are guys who, if asked what was in their bookcase right now, would answer you with “the Bible, Glenn Beck, and a bottle of Jim Bean”.
Kirk Spencer
What is truly amusing about this is that there IS a Republican health care plan. No fooling: HR 3400, written by Tom Price (R-GA), who is even a physician. The Republicans could be hammering with the existence of this but… silence.
In VERY simple terms, everyone gets to take a tax credit against their health insurance premiums. The baseline is $2000 per year for an individual, $4000 for joint filers, up to two dependents at $500. So a family with four children and two parents, each filing separately and claiming two children could end up with a tax credit of $6000 per year.
You can get that much provided you are at or below the threshold level (200% of poverty level for you and yours – for a family of four that means earning $42,400 or less). For each $1000 (inclusive) you earn above that the credit is reduced by 1%. You also cannot take any credit that reduces your total tax below zero.
Beyond that are the jots and wiggles – no expenditure on any abortions, no credit for a month when you’re on medicaid or medicare (no coverage for the donut hole), no credit for aliens (even if they’re paying taxes), people on government plans can choose the tax credit instead of their plan, etc.
Oh – and if you’re “poor” (under poverty line) you can get your credit as an advance payment.
Bottom line – it sucks and won’t do anything to reform the system. But it does exist.
Isn’t it interesting that no Republicans are pushing it?
Zach
@Kirk Spencer: You also cannot take any credit that reduces your total tax below zero.
Unfortunately, this is the part that means that increasing inflation of medical prices will continue to increase the ranks of the un- and underinsured. Not all that many people below the 200% poverty level pay a net income tax. That whole statistic that 40% of Americans or so don’t pay net income tax is true – http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=283 – and the uninsured are largely in that group – http://aspe.hhs.gov/health/reports/05/uninsured-cps/index.htm#income
From those figures you can extrapolate that 50-60% of the uninsured pay no or negative income tax.
Steeplejack
@Kirk Spencer:
In VERY simple terms, everyone gets to take a tax credit against their health insurance premiums.
(I know you are not defending this.) Tax credits don’t mean a goddamn thing if you don’t have the money to pay for the insurance in the first place. That is the place all too many (uninsured) Americans find themselves.
Wile E. Quixote
@DougJ
One of the things that’s most striking about the health care debate is the lack of a serious alternative from Republicans.
Why is that striking? When was the last time that the Republican party offered a serious alternative on any policy issue other than “Because, shut up, that’s why” and/or “IOKIYAR”?