Via commenter Zach, we find the usual suspects waxing rhapsodic about the political genius of Sarah Palin’s death panel comments. Now, I realize that the death panel craziness did succeed in killing off the end-of-life counseling amendment (put in by right-wing Georgia Republican Johnny Isakson). And it’s probably true that the incident has rebounded to Palin’s advantage among the teabaggers.
Now, let’s leave aside the fact that the panel stuff bears no relation to reality. That’s not a salient point in this environment. But, realistically, is the “death panel” stuff going to kill the health care reform bill? Are Republicans going to retake the house in 2010 talking about death panels? More generally, I just don’t see how, in a world where Republicans lose elections because their rhetoric frightens younger and non-white voters, it can be a good idea for Republicans to identify themselves with angry mobs of old, extremist white people.
There’s a bizarre love triangle among the Republican party, the media, and the lunatic right-wing fringe, and it’s not going to end well for anyone involved. The Republican party is dooming itself to long-term irrelevance by alienating the young and non-white; they may even be setting themselves up for primary challenges from nutjobs. The media is losing what credibility it has by parroting teh crazy. And the lunatic right-wing fringe is headed for an inevitable series of “Sister Souljah” moments when Republicans wise up and realize they have to denounce the teabaggers.
If you don’t believe me, ask Bob Inglis.
steve s
“There’s a bizarre love triangle among the Republican party, the media, and the lunatic right-wing fringe, and it’s not going to end well for anyone involved.”
good!
Martin
Tire swinging with terrorists.
Oh, wait, the media would never say that!
kommrade reproductive vigor
Not only does the title work, the fucking lyrics are perfect.
You’ve outdone yourself DougJ.
No. You can’t mean … Not FOUR wetsuits and TWO double-headed dildos?!
gbear
Well, yea, except for the fact that when it doesn’t end well, anyone and everyone who gets killed or injured will be an innocent bystander and no one in the triangle will take responsiblity for any of it. Sick fucks, all of them.
Brick Oven Bill
I will explain this again. The government has made somewhere around $50-70 trillion in unfunded promises to the American people as it is, a large percentage of which is for medical expenses. 70+% of these medical expenses are for end-of-life care.
The country can no longer create value out of thin air when (1) people stop buying our debt; and/or (2) the Fed prints money to the point where it loses its value. Even in the face of the federal government losing its ability to create value through paper finance activities, doctors will still want to be compensated for their services, which have real value.
When the government loses its ability to print value, society will have to decide whether to spend their limited public funds on either $400,000 end-of-life treatments for the non-productive, or $6,000 treatments to set the broken bones of workers, etc. This is the point where medical treatment will be denied to the non-productive, the elderly counted among them. This will happen regardless of the system in place.
Obama should be honest about this. It makes me uneasy watching the President misrepresent things so comfortably.
steve s
I’m listening to Weekend Edition on NPR. I’m very surprised–Obama apparently dropped the measured, steady tone and went passionate at some recent event. Also called the death panel stuff “dishonest”. Is anyone else covering this? It’s really exciting stuff to hear.
Montysano
I had the popcorn made to watch Rachel Maddow on MTP this morning. I hit my threshold early on when Coburn, arguing for the bestest health care system evah, sniffed that “Life expectancy isn’t really a good indicator”. I waited for someone to scream “Bullshit!” but no; the discussion just rolled on.
Until the media again begins to behave like an army of Lawrence O’Donnells, we’re fucked.
asiangrrlMN
Not exactly, DougJ.. As Olbermann and Howard Dean pointed out, the House of Reps still had the amendment in their bill when they convened for the recess. Dean is convinced that some version of it will be in the final bill. Olbermann thinks this way the GOP gets to say, “We killed it off, but the Dems insist on putting it back in.” Either way, it’s not dead yet.
Heh. I made a funny.
cleek
you could’ve also called this “The Village”, or “Power, Corruption and Lies” or “State Of The Nation” or “Liar” or …
but i think “Dreams Never End” would be best, because:
the problem is that people don’t stay young forever, and health care reform isn’t about race. there will always be a new batch of cynical douchebags just waiting discover the dark joys of conservatism and tell other people “Hey, I Got Mine, Jack”. the GOP isn’t going anywhere.
Montysano
@steve s:
Yeah, I heard it. Meh… That’s in no way close to the passion that’s called for. Which is why I could never be in politics.
Bob In Pacifica
Yeah, because living or dying is no measure of healthcare. Nor are the number of dead babies, otherwise known as infant mortality.
Jay C
There’s a bizarre love triangle among the Republican party, the media, and the lunatic right-wing fringe, and it’s not going to end well for anyone involved. The Republican party is dooming itself to long-term irrelevance by alienating the young and non-white; they may even be setting themselves up for primary challenges from nutjobs. The media is losing what credibility it has by parroting teh crazy. And the lunatic right-wing fringe is headed for an inevitable series of “Sister Souljah” moments when Republicans wise up and realize they have to denounce the teabaggers.
Though I think you’re right in principle, I’m not sure that
today’s GOP really can keep the looney-tunes fringe at arm’s length, even if they wanted to. Their pending irrelevance may indeed be coming – but as long as they can (or think they can) get any appreciable number of votes by demonizing President Obama and/or Democrats – regardless of the shrillness/lunacy of their approach – they will. Until we get to 1936.
But Doug, do you really think the American “media” really give a flying fnck about their “credibility”?? Memes appearing in the “mainstream”: media get credibility just by being there; and as long as TV and the print press maintain their “horserace” attitude towards virtually any and everything to do with politics and/or political issues (and still cower in pants-pissing fear of being tagged as “liberal” by the crank fringe) – it ain’t gonna change.
Mike Furlan
A typo?
In the not too unlikely scenario in which the economy does not improve, yes this can be a good idea.
Where unemployment is higher, not lower, there will be enough defections from the Obama coalition to throw the next election to Sarah Palin, or worse.
Crashman06
The Republicans have lost practically everyone I know in my generation, that’s for sure. Hopefully, you’re right.
Leelee for Obama
Coburn, arguing for the bestest health care system evah, sniffed that “Life expectancy isn’t really a good indicator”
Really? What the fuck would be a good indicator? How large an inheritance you left to your children when you died young? How many contributions you made to bat-shit insane Rethugs? Length of d__k? Parameters Sen. No Doors on the Girl’s Room to prevent Lesbianism if you wouldn’t fucking mind!
gbear
DougJ, did you see that Steve Bennen wrote a ‘Part 2’ in regard to his conversations w/ Bruce Bartlett? It’s good.
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_08/019508.php
gbear
@gbear: Of course, I could discretely correct the spelling of Steve Benen’s name if we had an edit feature. But we don’t.
evie
Why the hell would they take the language out when EOL counseling is a common and necessary part of health care? Why?
Maus
“the lunatic right-wing fringe is headed for an inevitable series of “Sister Souljah” moments when Republicans wise up and realize they have to denounce the teabaggers.”
It already happens. Every time a violent threat happens, the Republican media spends five minutes denouncing the militia activities, then the next fifty-five minutes of the show stirring up militia activity. You’re looking for a reasonable cross-section of the GOP and faux-independents that don’t exist. There are none in any position of “leadership”.
Max
@Montysano: I love Rachel and she’s whip smart, but she is not good on panels/round tables. She’s too polite and doesn’t jump in to the conversation unless called upon. I noticed the same thing when she was on Bill Maher a couple weeks ago.
They need Lawrence O.D. on MTP!
Maus
“Why the hell would they take the language out when EOL counseling is a common and necessary part of health care? Why?”
Because not talking about death means that you will never die, just as not talking about sex and protection means that your children will never be teen parents.
debit
@evie: They haven’t taken it out. The Senate isn’t even in session. Grassley is talking out of his ass. As per usual.
beltane
The rampaging old people remind me of King Lear, his madness egged on by the diabolically selfish Goneril and Regan for their own personal gain, with only the fool able to speak the truth. It all ends miserably.
Martin
And in the scenario in which the economy does improve, they’ve got nothing left but pissed off people yelling ‘nigger’.
And betting on failure and refusing to help can only further destroy whatever principles one might have had.
But if they think it’s a winning strategy…
Leelee for Obama
@evie: So we can quietly firm up the provisions in the already extant Prescription Drug Bill that does the same fucking thing, w/o giving Sarah Palin anything to piss and wail about, because that was a Rethug Bill and Rethug President. Her little guy will become safe from his mother’s shameless use of his Down’s Syndrome because her Death Panels are now End of Life Counseling benefits in Medicare. See the difference?
Me, neither. But if it shuts up the Deathers, I’m OK with it.
malraux
My only question is why something as minor as exactly what sorts of physician reimbursements for care should be included in the bill. It seems like the sort of thing the relevant agency would be better able to handle.
beltane
@Leelee for Obama: The only measure that is important to Republican politicians is how many hours they maintain a hard on thanks their taxpayer funded boner pills.
Montysano
As usual, Frank Rich is excellent this morning.
Leelee for Obama
@beltane: And I wouldn’t be surprised at this. Why the cadavers need a boner is beyond me-but there you go.
Sleeper
Arguing about the inclusion of end-of-life counseling seems pointless, now that HHS Secretary Sebelius has come out and said that the administration is abandoning the public option. Which leaves us with…what? How can you have a health care reform bill and omit the part wherein health care is reformed?
I knew this was coming, I knew Obama was constitutionally incapable of directly fighting for something rather than trying to finesse it and compromise for it and getting others to give most of it to him, but this still feels like a sucker punch. This kind of crap is starting to give credence to the angry PUMA complaints that Obama was nothing but empty feel-good slogans. I don’t know if Clinton would have done a better job with health care reform if she’d won, but she couldn’t possibly have done a worse job than the Obama Administration is doing.
Kirk Spencer
@Brick Oven Bill:
Lies.
1 – the total deficit is less than $13 Trillion. Yes, you said unfunded promises. If I promise you $100 but never give you that money, I have spent zero and do not have to worry about doing something to get that $100. Promises don’t hit the budget or debt or anything else.
2 – There is a lot more to the deficit than medicare. More accurately, there is no accounting that says this part of the annual budget will be paid with revenues and that part with loans. Specifying that most of the debt is ANYTHING is disingenuous in the extreme.
3 – 27% of Medicare is spent on last-year expenses. Not 70%, much less 70% of the deficit.
Three lies in the first paragraph, the three of which essentially form that paragraph. Some of the remainder of your post actually has some basis, but it becomes worthless given the ground from which you started.
bago
So, In Seattle today, a quarter million people will be hanging out and listening to music, buying overpriced corn on the cob, and showing up in support of decriminalization of weed. When once city gets a quarter million teabaggers, let me know.
The point is, demographically, it’s over. The honkies lost, and they’re scared. The people on the waterfront will be voting for 20-40 more years, while the teabaggers are clinging onto their last decades decrying government healthcare while on their social security.
A lot of hippies are slovenly unproductive bums, but I’d rather deal with them than with religious nutjobs who want to bomb everyone to death at 50k to 50 million a bomb.
There are angles about this that I can relate to District 9, but I want to get more people talking about the movie first. Freaking awesome movie. Watching Wikus move in acts of condescension, corporate wankery, fear, arrogance, shame, hope, betrayal, redemption, and finally justice was a masterpiece.
arguingwithsignposts
MSNBC is replaying MTP right now, and I can’t believe how big a douchenozzle Dick Armey is. And Tom Coburn is right up there with him.
Leelee for Obama
I have a question about the Public Option-why can’t we just expand SCHIP and change the acronym to AFIP-American Family Insurance Program. Pick a salary cap that makes sense, set premiums that are affordable and Robert is your Father’s younger Brother. Done.
beltane
@bago: But how much play will this get in the media? Remember the law of the land: 25 teabaggers count for more than 250,000 dimebaggers.
Rob C.
I just don’t see how any of this even matters any more. Republicans or Democrats, it doesn’t matter one bit who is in power. The politicos will always follow the will of the corporations who now effectively own our government. Everything else is a sideshow.
El Cid
All that has really happened is that the teabaggers had a pretty loud week and a half.
Nothing much has actually happened, and the White House and the Democrats are just now beginning to sell the plan.
I’m not magic, I don’t know exactly what will happen, but it really looks to me like there’s about to be very serious health care / insurance reformed passed in the next couple of months, and the righties and the Republicans and the teabaggers will soon need some fresh hankies and diapers.
cleek
actually, she already did a far worse job, on health care.
Brick Oven Bill
Martin; Do you believe that the promises being made by the Obama Administration, to expand health care benefits within a system that is already beyond broke, can be accomplished without rationing?
As you ponder this question, keep in mind that raising taxes from 35 to 39.6% will only yield $20 billion, or approximately 1% of the current budget deficit.
I acknowledge that this is a racist question. But I have a cultural bias regarding respect for math.
The outright debt is $13 trillion Kirk, and as you note, this does not include unfunded promises, which bring the total to $50-70 trillion. Probably closer to $70. When a government makes a promise, and doesn’t keep it, this is one form of rationing. ‘Last year’ expenses are not the same as ‘end-of-life’.
Martin
The relevant agency is Congress, unfortunately. Obama wants to bring back an independent board of physicians to propose all of that, which Congress needs to accept or reject in full. The only people that are qualified to work out the cost of a hernia operation are physicians. Plus, the board can revise the costs annually as changes in practice emerge. Congress sucks at that kind of thing.
DougJ
DougJ, did you see that Steve Bennen wrote a ‘Part 2’ in regard to his conversations w/ Bruce Bartlett? It’s good.
Yeah, I may write about it later.
Mark S.
@Sleeper:
I agree. Who cares if these geezers get end of life counseling. The real problem is the lack of a public option.
Co-ops. And mandates. And expenditures on health care exploding to 20% of GDP.
Brick Oven Bill
Hey Kirk;
The average nursing home stay is 2.4 years. 2.4 years times 27% last year care equals 64.8%. Add medical care preceding admission and,
Ding ding ding
70%.
Notorious P.A.T.
“Yeah, because living or dying is no measure of healthcare. Nor are the number of dead babies, otherwise known as infant mortality.”
Now, someone correct me if I’m wrong, but average life expectancy doesn’t mean everyon lives to be 75.6, right? it means some people live to be 80 and a few people die at 1. So average life expectancy sounds like a pretty effective measure to me.
“Coburn, arguing for the bestest health care system evah, sniffed that “Life expectancy isn’t really a good indicator””
Does he have government health coverage? I hope someone asked him.
Notorious P.A.T.
“As usual, Frank Rich is excellent this morning.”
Can’t I go one hour without hearing about “Mad Men”?!?!?!?
DougJ
Can’t I go one hour without hearing about “Mad Men”??!?
I’m thinking of doing a “Mad Men” thread this evening.
cbear
So…..I guess its safe to assume the Sunday Morning Talking Sphincters were up to their usual tricks, yes?
Notorious P.A.T.
“The point is, demographically, it’s over. The honkies lost, and they’re scared. ”
The other day I was thinking about renouncing my whitehood. That’s how embarrassed I am by those people.
And I’ll be seeing “District 9” today. Got a coupon for a free ticket )
Notorious P.A.T.
“I’m thinking of doing a “Mad Men” thread this evening.”
[head explodes]
WMass
“Moron Logic”, by BOB:
If you have 20 years left on your mortgage, lets say the total payments you owe is $200,000. According to Moron Logic, you have made $200,000 in unfunded promises to the bank, and since you only have $5,000 in your savings account, you will obviously go bankrupt and end up in an alley giving handjobs for crack.
On the other hand, if you use what most people with an IQ above room temperature consider logic, you realize that for the next 20 years you will be working hard, and using your paycheck to pay the mortgage every month. Therefore, you will most likely not end up in an alley giving handjobs for crack.
Leelee for Obama
@Notorious P.A.T.: If I had a nickel for every time I have said,”God, I ashamed to be white” I would be living in Key West not Space Coast and I would be able to afford health insurance. Is there a way to give it up, like they had in South Africa under Apartheid? Now that was some system. Amazing that it only ended within the last 20 years.
Comrade Jake
@gbear:
Thanks for posting that link. Wow is all I can say. Bartlett does not appear to be at all interested in holding back.
I do think we might be on the precipice of liberals abandoning the MSM wholesale though. I mean, who really is watching MTP these days or this asshat Tapper? If it’s largely liberals looking to get ticked off, that’s not a model for growth.
Sleeper
@cleek:
It’s a different time, there is (or was) a strong public desire for health care reform, she would have had 59-60 seats in the Senate and a huge House majority, and most importantly, she would have been the President in her own right, and not the President’s too-smart-for-her-own-good wife, which was half the problem 15 years ago.
Does this mean President Clinton II would be succeeding where President Obama is now failing? No, she might have made her own mistakes, she might have screwed up somewhere else along the way. But I’m confident she would at least be fighting for it. She’s never been afraid to be shrill, and shrillness is what is needed now. Not town halls filled with starry-eyed fans. Obama should hold town halls JUST for people who oppose health care reform and take these people head on and show them they’re wrong.
But again, that’s not his way. Just seems incapable of enduring anyone’s anger and wants everyone to feel included. Except, of course, the liberals who were his biggest supporters.
Martin
Yes, I do think they can be kept.
The $50T you state above comes without a time frame. But you also don’t state that the majority of the Medicare deficit comes due to the 2003 Medicare bill where Republicans almost unanimously approved the largest expansion of Medicare since it was created with *zero* means to pay for it. And they didn’t give the government the ability to negotiate drug prices which would have curtailed that cost, and they did it right on the heels of yet another tax cut.
You’re asking Obama to fix yet another problem created by the GOP. You never even knew it was a problem because Bush was never honest about the entitlement deficits. (Neither was Clinton or Bush Sr, to be fair). You should be praising Obama for finally being honest about it and being willing to tackle it. What he’s proposing is a revenue neutral bill here – it shouldn’t cost anything, and it should include provisions that would allow the government to begin drawing down their costs from what passed in 2003.
I think the public seriously underestimates how much money can be saved in healthcare through proper reform. And it doesn’t require that any doctors or hospitals become government run.
Here’s what we do know:
We spend about 2.5T on health care. If we had any other universal system (anything from full-blown socialized care like the UK down to universal *insurance* with private sector doctors and hospitals) we’d pay no more than about $1.9T. Now, you say that $600B won’t close a $50T gap, but the $50T is not in constant 2009 dollars. It’s over some arbitrary period of time that you haven’t specified and it’s indexed both for dollar inflation but also the expected inflationary cost of care, which is huge, at the moment.
The single biggest thing the government needs to do to get entitlement costs under control is to hold the inflationary costs of the entitlement to the inflationary value of the dollar. That $50T arises because the $100 procedure today is expected to cost $200 in 5 years, but a $100 tax receipt will otherwise only be worth $150 at that time. If the government can do nothing other than keep that $100 procedure to $150 in 5 years, the $50T deficit will almost vanish.
And it’s that kind of dishonest math that pundits routinely engage in – exploiting differences in controllable inflationary rates and then running them out for 20, 50, 100 years to make the problem appear so insurmountable that nobody should ever bother trying.
Will there be rationing? Of course. There already is. If there wasn’t nobody would ever get buried, we’d just keep everyone on indefinite life support. The question is who gets to decide when to stop providing treatment. We want it to lie solely with the patient and the doctor. Supporting living wills would keep it primarily with the patient, but Republicans are fighting that – presumably they want to keep it with insurance companies. It’s a legitimate question to ask how the bill keeps the decision with doctors rather than the public option, but nobody is asking that, and it’s equally legitimate to ask how the bill keeps the decision with doctors rather than the insurance companies, but Republicans are actively fighting that.
So, since you aren’t asking the question BOB, why do you want insurance companies to ration care, and if you don’t, what are you doing to change that?
cbear
@Sleeper:Have you considered changing your nic to “if-dog-rabbit”???
handy
@Sleeper:
I supported Obama over Hillary in the primaries, but this is one issue where I wonder how different a Clinton II administration would have been different from what we’ve got now. Hillary practically built her political career on health care reform. I could see how this would have been as much her issue as being a “war preznit” was for Bush. Very personal, with her fighting tooth and nail, both publicly and behind the scenes to get something with teeth.
And it turns out, Obama is proving no less “hawkish” in his foreign policy than Hillary hinted that she would be. At least so far. I wouldn’t say this is a time for buyer’s remorse or anything like that. As far as we know, El Cid may be right and we might actually get substantive reform when all the dust settles. It just looks right now like Obama is losing this thing. Bad.
steve s
“August 16th, 2009 at 2:50 pm
DougJ
I’m thinking of doing a “Mad Men” thread this evening.”
I’m this very minute downloading seasons 1 and 2. Keep in mind that some of us haven’t seen it yet.
Brick Oven Bill
I will dumb this down for the Duval Patrick wing of Balloon Juice. Say you’ve got an income of $30,000, credit card debt of $120,000, and annual expenses of $47,000, rising by $5,000 per year.
Then some yahoo shows up on your doorstep and offers to sell you candy in exchange for access to your house and family. This candy will only cost you an extra $6,000 every year, he says. You go to the bank, and they laugh at you, calling you a complete blathering moron.
So you go back to the candy salesman because you really, really like candy, and he offers to finance the candy, in exchange for access to your house and limitations on your freedom. As this scenario plays out, you get no candy, and the candy salesman ends up sitting on your couch watching TV, watching you to go to work.
handy
BOB, the candy man is already digging in your bag of goodies and his name is Health Insurance, Inc. You fail again, good sir.
Martin
Well, I don’t know about that. I have to agree with Krugman, however, that if Hillary had done every single thing that Obama had done to this point, and done it in *precisely* the same way, that everyone would be blaming her for this mess rather than Democrats broadly, or Republicans, or teabaggers, or whoever people are blaming.
And that was part of my concern about Hillary – because of what happened in ’93, she would have become the white-hot focus of any health care effort, and it would have made this equally as hard, or probably harder – but not because of anything she could control.
The thing Obama could have done differently is try and force this through Congress and take the lead on it, but given that the opposition is more pissed off about having a black president than anything that’s actually in the bill, I don’t see how that would have made things better. Hillary would have had to do the same thing. Either way, this had to be Congress’s job and they’ve done a pretty shitty job of it.
Notorious P.A.T.
@Leelee for Obama:
Actually I am of Irish descent. Maybe I should sue for legal recognition of my non-whitey status. Hey, census, I’m not Caucasian, I’m a mick!
“keep in mind that raising taxes from 35 to 39.6% will only yield $20 billion, or approximately 1% of the current budget deficit”
Then I guess we’ll have to raise them higher. Maybe to where they were in the ’50s.
“she couldn’t possibly have done a worse job than the Obama Administration is doing”
I can no longer rationally discuss Hillary Clinton.
Comrade Jake
I think you’re delusional if you think the end result would have been much different with an HRC Presidency. It’s very possible that Hill would have been shrill, and it’s also very possible that it would have done more harm than good.
Would the bill that came out of the House looked much different? I think that except for at the margins it’s very debatable. We would not have had a single-payer bill, that’s for sure, and I doubt that Hill would have insisted on it. The votes simply aren’t there. Then ask yourself which Democratic Senator would have suddenly become a proponent of the public option, who currently isn’t under Obama. There’s nobody.
steve s
that’s the wrongest thing I’ve ever heard in my life. Only in Karl Rove’s wildest dreams would Obama give televised events where it appeared that the entire public was united against him. Good lord.
DougJ
Actually I am of Irish descent.
You may not mind my “Mad Men” post that much, then.
cbear
@Brick Oven Bill: Is that when it all went wrong for you BOB—when you took the candy from the nice man and he turned out to not be your friend?
Is that why we all have to suffer through your incessant rants—cause you didn’t listen to mommy?
Notorious P.A.T.
Don’t forget Bob Herbert:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/15/opinion/15herbert.html
sorry, no mentions of goddamn Tom Draper or whatever the hell his name is.
Kirk Spencer
@Brick Oven Bill: Hey Bill,
From the same report, “In other words, 2 out of 3 people who turned 65 in 1990 will either never spend any time in a nursing home or will spend less than three months in one. ”
The 2.4 years includes a number of people who spend more than a decade in the nursing home. Trying to match that up against ‘last year’ costs is really bad statistics.
Second, your math skills suck. 27% of year one plus 27% of year two is not 54% of the whole but is instead 27% of the whole.
lotus
You guys need to scoot over to Benen’s and read what a commenter called Bruce Webb is pointing out. For instance (but this isn’t his only good comment on that thread):
JK
“When Republicans wise up and realize they have to denounce the teabaggers”
OK, Doug, I think these denunciations will happen at around the same time Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri are led out of a courtroom in handcuffs and leg irons after receiving a guilty verdict in Manhattan Federal Court for the mass murder of 3.000 innocent civilians.
Republican politicians are the biggest cowards in the world. They’ll never ever risk doing anything to incur the wrath of Rush Limbaugh, sean Hannity, Glenn Beck, Bill O’Reilly, or Michelle Malkin
OT
More right wing trashing of Rick Pearlstein’s column http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/14/AR2009081401495_pf.htmlwhich you highlighted yesterday https://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=25463
http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.com/2009/08/bainbridge-takes-down-perlstein.html
http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2009/08/if-this-isnt-a-spoof-it-ought-to-be.html
http://wizbangblog.com/content/2009/08/15/how-the-left-views-dissent-today.php
Comrade Jake
@lotus:
Thanks. That’s the first encouraging thing I’ve read on this in awhile. Still, I’m really skeptical of a lot of this stuff surviving. And without the PO, I can still see the health insurance companies figuring out all kinds of back-channel ways to keep premiums on a steady rise.
Sleeper
The only reason I think things might be going differently under a Clinton II Administration is that right now the biggest problem for Democrats is finding an excuse to do the right thing. Strong Presidential leadership gives the cowards that excuse – “The President sets the agenda and we’re following her lead.” To Blue Dogs, real reform is politically risky (at least they think it is) and they need to be able to hide behind Obama and vote accordingly. But Obama has deliberately stepped aside and put it all on the Congress, taking away that psychological and political shield that the fence-straddlers need. Because he doesn’t want to be seen as divisive, strident, partisan. I think he feels that that’s his “brand identity” and to go against that is worse than to suffer policy defeats.
I think Hillary Clinton would be perfectly willing to let people hate her if it meant she could ram a decent bill through. They already hate her for free, she might as well get paid in policy gains for doing it.
I’m not a PUMA; although I initially supported her, I think she ruined her own presidential campaign and would have subsequently been a lesser general election nominee. But seeing Obama screw this up just has me wondering if she could have been a better person to handle this, that’s all. As I said before, it’s not 1994, and maybe she could have succeeded this time.
El Cid
@Kirk Spencer: The United States government has committed itself to spending up to eleventy google quadrillion dollars, but all potential tax revenue from people receiving more than $1,000,000 per year will only add up to $2.25, enough for a hamburger at Burger King. We have no choice, therefore, but to create a national electric train system.
El Cid
@Sleeper: Look, maybe Obama will do this (I think so), maybe Hillary would do so, but I think it’s pretty unreasonable to be arguing that we should be sure that Obama will fail given that there isn’t yet any legislation and no legislative battle, but the person we already know to have failed, Hillary Clinton, is clearly the right person to this job, what with the record of failure and all.
Leelee for Obama
@handy: I haven’t heard Barack once threaten to obliterate Iran. Not once. Did I miss something? Because Hillary did, over Israel, and it blew my mind. 75,000,000 people obliterated. Sobering. I don’t know when any of this mess in Afghanistan ends, but we knew where he stood on that, and troops out of Iraq 3 months later than originally proposed is a promise kept, not broken.
Brick Oven Bill
The Atlantic: Last year of life care: 33% of spending. Chronic care: 75% of spending.
One potential fiscal solution: Deport those with heart disease and diabetes.
If Obama had listened to me about electric railroads, unemployment would be ~6%, our consumption of fossil fuels would be down, and there would be less heart disease and diabetes, as people would be performing physical work, and would be less fat.
But noooo.
handy
OK that one had to be a spoof. Amirite?
El Cid
If Obama had listened to me about building a bridge to the Moon so that the libertarians could move there, we’d be much better off and everyone would have a job on the Moon bridge.
Brick Oven Bill
Deportation of sick people on the public system is one realistic mechanism to avoid rationing handy.
Sleeper
@El Cid:
And if I had said that Hillary Clinton was clearly the right person to do the job, you might have a salient point. But I said (perhaps poorly, since my point didn’t get across) that what the debate needs now is a fierce partisan advocate, and she would be one in a way that Obama is not. Maybe that would work, maybe it wouldn’t, and maybe her other numerous political weaknesses would wound the plan in a different way than Obama’s aloofness is wounding it now. I’m not saying it would be a lock with Clinton. But it would be refreshing and perhaps politically advantageous to see a President out there demanding change, not just saying how great change would be.
Sebelius’s saying that the public option isn’t necessary today is the clearest indication that the administration is giving up on it, and without the public option, health care reform has failed. So it’s equally unreasonable, I think, to suggest that the battle hasn’t begun yet and that this was anyone’s ballgame.
Notorious P.A.T.
“The Atlantic: Last year of life care: 33% of spending.”
As Mr. Krugman says, you don’t know it’s the end of someone’s life until their life is actually over.
El Cid
@Sleeper: All I’m emphasizing is what you just said — you speculate that HRC would be behaving differently based on an argument that too much has been ceded though the legislative battle has hardly yet begun.
Can I imagine that to be the case? Sure. But I can imagine all sorts of things.
Notorious P.A.T.
@Brick Oven Bill:
Right now, if someone “offered” to deport me to Sweden, I would seriously think about it.
JK
@handy: @Sleeper: @Comrade Jake:
I supported Obama in the primaries, but there have been times in the past few weeks when I’ve had serious buyer’s remorse.
Before Election Day, I felt Hillary was much tougher than Obama but that she was far more polarizing which meant Obama would have a far easier time dealing with Republican politicians and their supporters.
Based on what we’ve seen at these town hall meetings, I think I seriously miscalculated Hillary’s liabilities and Obama’s likability. I can’t imagine any more venom being directed towards Hillary by the town hall protesters if she had been elected president. I didn’t believe that so many wingnuts could develop such a burning hatred and distrust of Obama so damn quickly.
lotus
More must-reads from that Benen thread:
<a href=”http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_08/019506.php#1573383″Bruce Webb again. And Keith M. Ellis. Especially if your nerves need settling, read these guys.
lotus
The missing link at 83 is Bruce Webb.
Comrade Jake
@Sleeper:
With respect to the Blue Dogs and the problematic Democratic Senators, this statement seems to have a high level of cognitive dissonance.
drillfork
@Leelee for Obama:
Leelee, you do know that Hillary is Obama’s Secretary of State right? Obviously her remarks about Iran don’t mean a whole lot to him…
Comrade Jake
@JK:
Sleeper
@El Cid:
Of course it’s speculation. I just happen to think that, given what has transpired and what we’ve seen from both Obama and Clinton, that it’s informed and reasonable speculation.
And we’re going to have to agree to disagree that the legislative battle has barely even begun. If the president isn’t willing to stand up for the left, then the left doesn’t have a chance on any meaningful reform. It’s all over except for the death throes. But he’ll pass something and proclaim victory, I’m sure.
General Winfield Stuck
HIllary/Bayh — 45/2012
drillfork
@lotus:
Hmmm, White House distancing itself from the Public option…
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_health_care_overhaul
arguingwithsignposts
@Brick Oven Bill:
BoB, there is already rationing. It’s called 47 million uninsured, rescission, and pre-existing conditions. And I’m with @Notorious P.A.T.. I’d take deportation to Canada or the UK if it meant not having to worry about losing insurance if I lost my job.
Someone said you could tell how good a society is by how it treats its youngest and oldest members. We need to do better, not worse.
Comrade Jake
@Sleeper:
But what would this look like? Insisting that a public option exist? He could do that until he’s blue in the face, but it wouldn’t make the votes in the Senate magically appear. I fail to see how HRC would have been able to change that dynamic.
steve s
@lotus: Ellis’s points are excellent. And music to my ears, as I’m tired of hearing the WATB behavior exhibited by a small number of Dems lately.
Cain
@JK:
she had been elected president. I didn’t believe that so many wingnuts could develop such a burning hatred and distrust of Obama so damn quickly.
They’ll hate any democrat up there, especially one who is charming, photogenic and charismatic (ala Bill Clinton). They are crazy, and they are in an echo chamber making themselves more and more crazy. I mean they believe this centerist guy is leading the nation to socialism? Jeezus..
It’s going to end badly.. I don’t know what it is going to take but right now this country is rushing past mediocrity to the bottom because we have a loud minority of people who are blocking progress.
May a thousand fireants crawl up their crevices and cause them discomfort.
cain
El Cid
@Sleeper: Well, then we’ll have to agree to disagree. I’m not willing to categorize a major potential health care / insurance reform, the largest ever attempted in our nation’s history, as not being serious reform legislation simply because it’s nowhere near what I’d prefer.
And I’m not a centrist, or ideological compromiser, and I’m as left as anyone could possibly be.
I’m just saying that at present, what looks to me like it’s gearing up to pass is going to be serious enough to make my life a lot better and a whole lot of other peoples’ too, particularly people that need it.
I think it’s possible that the public option may not make it, but I think it still may. But it surprises me, to be frank, that it’s even seen as realistically having been under consideration by the Democratic establishment, because when John Edwards introduced the idea in the campaign I figured it would be utterly dismissed as communist fantasy. That it’s still even potentially in play impresses me a great deal.
I’m also not surprised that liberals and progressives are generally confused about how to organized to push major national agendas under a liberal President, because frankly I’ve never seen us be able to do it in my lifetime. This is all new. Pushing to get people elected, yeah, I’ve seen that — but pushing for an agenda rather than pushing against a hated hawk — that I haven’t seen.
lotus
@drillfork:
Now read the links at 83 and 84.
El Cid
@arguingwithsignposts: I agree that levitation of the sick and injured would help our economy somehow.
lotus
@steve s:
NO DAMN KIDDING.
Leelee for Obama
@drillfork: She’s not the President, he is. I was mentioning this in reference to the Hawk designation mentioned by handy, that’s all. She implements policy, she doesn’t set policy.
El Cid
I don’t mind bitching and moaning from the liberal and left about Democrats’ behavior in reaction to those figures’ actual statements and actions; what I’m not crazy about is if then those actions and statements serve as inspirations to make much larger arguments about the ‘failure’ of an entire agenda, or administration, when that conclusion simply does not follow (yet) from the available premises.
valdivia
I love how an AP article written to make the WH seem on the verge of defeat is used by people on the left as proof that Obama is not one of us or/and has no balls. Really, you trust the AP on this? I am with lotus on those very great comments on the Bennen thread.
Comrade Jake
Lotus, I just read Ellis’ comment. Thanks for the link. It was without question worth a read.
Sleeper
@Comrade Jake:
My point is that, at least during the primaries, Clinton’s pitch to the public was that “I can get things done.” (Also, “It’s my turn.” heh.) Whereas Obama’s pitch was, “We need a change and I’m new.” Her political brand and capital was and would be highly dependent on her legislative accomplishments, far more so than Obama’s is. I think Obama could possibly politically survive a health care defeat. But Clinton could not. Not with the politically identity she’s made for herself, certainly not after having screwed it up the first time. So she would be more willing to be bold and demand things from the Congress, instead of just expressing public sympathies for certain things and doing all her work behind the scenes. There would be more public haggling, and for a lot of wishy-washy Dems, Blue Dog or not, that might be sufficient political cover to risk supporting health care reform more strongly. A president’s insistence gives lots of politicians (not all, but many) the excuse they need to forestall industry lobbyists on this battle (“What can I do? The President is clear on this”) without totally losing their long-term financial support. It gives them a figleaf of powerlessness in the face of a perfect political storm of public demand and presidential will, and for a number of them, that would perhaps be enough.
The price to be paid for a president doing this would be to be decried as partisan, non-cooperative, etc. Obama, or his people or whatever, see that as a real threat, I think. Clinton would not be as threatened by that.
This whole conversation feels like I’m saying Clinton would be winning right now, and I’m not; I’m not at all convinced that’s true. I just was bemoaning Obama’s seeming lack of fortitude in this fight.
Martin
Where is that even stated in the link you provided of an 11 year old study on >65 care?
JK
@Comrade Jake:
If Hillary were President, I wouldn’t have any thoughts in the back of my mind about the possibility of aan assasination attempt. I’ve had several thoughts of this nature since Obama has gotten elected.
The hatred towards Bill and Hillary built more gradually than this insane hatred for Obama. Are you looking at these assholes yelling at the town hall meetings? They’re fucking insane. They couldn’t possibly get any more enraged if Hillary were President today.
JK
@Comrade Jake:
If Hillary were President, I wouldn’t have any thoughts in the back of my mind about the possibility of an assassination attempt. I’ve had several thoughts of this nature since Obama has gotten elected.
The hatred towards Bill and Hillary built more gradually than this insane hatred for Obama. Are you looking at these assholes yelling at the town hall meetings? They’re fucking insane. They couldn’t possibly get any more enraged if Hillary were President today.
El Cid
If you’re going to spend your time bemoaning what appears to be a lack of fortitude by Democratic leaders actually in office, you better stock up on lozenges.
That said, remember that this battle is nowhere near being finished, and in fact has barely begun, and no matter how much I personally am favor of a very large and powerful ‘public option’, what has actually been proposed is (of course) designed to be as limited in scope as they can get away with.
El Cid
@JK: Such a burst of outraged nutgasm opposition isn’t proof that it will continue to deepen, grow, and strengthen. It could, in fact, be a dying paroxysm of resistance. I lean a bit more toward the latter, particularly if, say, real health reform passes and even the nutsquad base begins to notice that they’re better off.
General Winfield Stuck
@lotus:
Thanks Lotus. I needed that read from Mr. Ellis. Costs will still continue to rise above the inflation rate, but the delivery reforms are very important and maybe not wise to throw the baby out with the bathwater. And I just wish I knew more about the co-op thing and how it would work, or if it would work on such a large scale for HCare.
Sleeper
@Comrade Jake:
I disagree. I think a President insisting on the necessity for something, and making a strong case for it, WOULD create support for it among members of his party. Some of those dead-set against it would climb back onto the fence, and some of those on the fence would be emboldened and pressured into coming out in favor it. Democratic Senators have been allowed to publically wander away from the reformers’ side precisely because there’s been no public pushback from the White House, because the White House does not want to be seen as imposing itself on the Congress. But imposing policy goals on the Congress is precisely what is needed here.
lotus
I just wish I knew more about the co-op thing and how it would work, or if it would work on such a large scale for HCare
Me too, General suh. But we’ll know a lot more in a few weeks here. Meanwhile, it’s good to read some folks who’ve actually studied the House bill more than I have. Until the conference version comes together, we’re flailing at phantoms.
General Winfield Stuck
@lotus:
Don’t tell anyone, but I’m not a real General.:)
Except maybe a general pain in the arse.
Sleeper
@El Cid:
Oh, even as I was getting weepy on Election Night, I knew that Obama would be a disappointment at some point. It’s inevitable when you’re a leftist who finds himself in a centrist party because there are no other options in America right now.
I admire your optimism on this battle and wish I could share in it. Believe me, I’d love to be proven wrong on this.
JK
@El Cid:
I can’t think of anything more frightening or dangerous than Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Michael Savage, and Mark Levin feeling cornered or trapped. These guys are just going to keep ratcheting up their hate speech higher and higher until God knows what happens.
sunsin
I don’t know if Clinton would have done a better job with health care reform if she’d won, but she couldn’t possibly have done a worse job than the Obama Administration is doing.
She did the last time she tried it. And her plan didn’t have a public option either.
El Cid
@Sleeper: Just remember, step back — you were helping to get a powerful figure elected to lead the U.S. government as it’s situated within the same powerful, upper-class dominated and hawk-favoring establishment it’s always been.
I never once thought I was helping to elect a revolutionary leader who would govern as I saw fit. I was interested in my best calculation of what would be the likely results, based in part upon hopes that ordinary liberals and progressives would exert the most pressure and organization they could. There is a U.S. power structure. But it’s not impermeable.
That’s it. That’s all you have. You either see some good within that as a positive thing or you decide that not only are those limitations wrong but that they will dominate your view of the subject.
But, again, I’m just reading things as I see them at the moment. A week from now or two weeks from now, who knows? Maybe things will still look chaotic, and yet reform will still pass. Or maybe Democrats will clusterfuck everything up, and destroy their chances at a 40 year progressive window / realignment. Or maybe they won’t, and they’ll get a bit better organized.
b-psycho
When I first heard about the government-option thing, before they started the details I imagined something like just letting people buy into Medicare. Set a rough premium and tell people “Pay this and you can get on without having to be old first”. If they wanted it, they could get it, if they didn’t, they wouldn’t have to get it, leave the rest of us alone.
Apparently that was too simple…
El Cid
@JK: I can think of a lot of things more frightening than those clowns getting enraged. I think that, yes, a populist right can inspire violence and threats of violence; but I think they have no earthly idea how tired Americans are of their bullshit. And these townhall debacles started to really annoy the sane.
Comrade Luke
I keep reading how the Republicans are doomed, while at the same time they keep winning all the battles.
Today: Backing away from the public option.
If this is losing I really don’t want to see winning.
b-psycho
BTW: has anyone at these town halls brought up drug company monopoly grants (you may know them as “patents”)? Or, for that matter, the absurdity of patenting the human genome driving up the cost of certain testing (for example)? Or any criticism of the power of the AMA w/r/t limiting the supply of physicians?
Just ONCE I would like to hear an opposition point that isn’t just a meaningless platitude.
bellatrys
@Brick Oven Bill:
Aaaaand BOB’s compulsive racism pops out again, as he otherwise-apropos-of-nothing uses a (misspelled) Democratic politician’s name to symbolize stupidity … a Democratic politician who just *happens* to be African-American.
I mean, if you were just happening to look for a random US politician who embodies the “dumber than a bag of hammers” ideal, you’d have to wade through an awful lot of Republicans to get to the Democrats, and through an awful lot of Democrats (cough*ZellMiller*cough)to get to the current governor of MA…
Comrade Mary
Jesus H. Christ.
Cathy
They seem to have edited the story in such a way that they removed the story of what exactly happened at Inglis’s townhall (i.e., he suggested that constituents turn off the television when Glenn Beck comes on). Watch it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMs47TSA0M4
Makewi
Now, I realize that the death panel craziness did succeed in killing off the end-of-life counseling amendment (put in by right-wing Georgia Republican Johnny Isakson)
Reason #12,478 for your epic fail on health care reform. The “death panel” craziness, as you put it, has to do with house bill 3200. As it turns out Isakson is a Senator. See if you can figure out the problem with that particular formulation, and then maybe I’ll give you more reasons why this particular comparison is more lies from the desperate.
Leelee for Obama
@Comrade Mary: I’m glad he got that out of the way. I myself was quite concerned that we might kill old people. Mr. Ross is certainly a great guy.
What a complete asshat! Way to defend what’s in or not in the g-damn bill. Sane people know that’s not the story and insane people won’t believe you. Asshat!
Leelee for Obama
@Makewi: Isakson was a Congressman when his amendment was added to the Medicare Prescription Drug Bill. HR3200 just used the same language. Read up, Makewi. It’s Isakson’s amendment.
Makewi
@Leelee for Obama:
No, it isn’t the same language. Nice try though.
But dazzle me with your well readness. Put ’em side by side here for us.
Texas Dem
I know a lot of people on the left want the so-called “public option” because it sounds like a good stand-in for a single payer health system, which is what they really want. But it’s just not going to happen. Probably never will, at least not in our lifetimes. The votes aren’t there. Conrad is just telling it like it is. We may not like that, but that’s political reality. Deal with it.
Still, we can have a relatively decent health reform bill if there are good insurance market reforms. But if they drop the public option too soon the insurance companies will turn their attention to watering down the insurance market reforms, making any bill that emerges totally worthless. The goal here should be to allow the insurance companies to win the battle (kill public option) and lose the war (tough insurance market reforms).
Demo Woman
@Makewi: Isaakson originally wanted a panel.. The law now written by Isaakson allows for terminal patients to talk to a dr. The new law allows dr.s to talk about living wills when they sign up. It’s a good idea to make decisions before you get sick, imo.
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
People who are complaining about Obama not doing enough and right now are missing the big picture while Obama does not. It is easy to see that he has not been ‘out front’ on this issue because his voice and opinion would be lessened by the cacophony of the nuts out there if he were to join in while the MSM and the nuts try to set up their memes.
He has sat back and let the crazies froth, letting the MSM run the show (so to say). Obama knows that a lot of his ‘opposition’ is from racists and they are using HCR as a cover for their hate. Let the people get more than an earful, let them get absolutely sick of it. He knew that the nutjobs would crank the shrill up to eleventy-eleven, cubed.
Now that the hue and cry are pretty much established, we are seeing him apply his charm in town halls and his opinion piece this weekend. While I am no starry-eyed, pie-in-the-sky Obama supporter, I am willing to give him the room to work and hold back on any possible complaints until something is actually put together and/or voted on. When that happens I will also remember that Obama signs legislation, the Congress puts it together. If HCR fails, it will be as a direct result of our Congress but I am sure that many will directly blame Obama.
Not me. It takes two to tango and Obama has a sucky dance partner who is constantly stepping on his feet.
As far as Hillary and heathcare? It would have been DOA and the right would have had a blast clubbing her like a baby seal.
Leelee for Obama
@Makewi: The language is not the same but the idea is. I just read Isakson’s
statement and the relevant section in HR3200. It’s about giving persons information so they can make decisions about their end-of-life, paid for by Medicare. The spirit of them both is a good thing-and similar enough not to split hairs over. Older people need this info to defend themselves and their families from the things that will prolong their existence, but not their lives, as they know them. If I was snippy, I apologize. This is a touchy subject for me. But the premise in both amendments is the same.
matoko_chan
Well……it think the take-away here is that Palin is running for 2012.
Because…..she really, really wants Barack to notice her!
She reached out to him and offered her help after the election……crickets.
She challenged him to a flat race……crickets.
She attacked him in her dopey Wapo energy op-ed…..crickets.
She attacked Obama with twitter on the “death panels”…..crickets.
She attacks him now on Facebook……crickets.
What can I say?
High School Never Ends in Wasilla.
(its safe, its Bowling for Soup)
matoko_chan
And they aren’t winning….the reason they are so screamy rabid crazy is they are nearly culturally and politically voiceless.
This reminds me of an old Orson Scott Card post where he said that the left owned media, acadame, hollywood, the arts, science and technology, television, all the organs of culture and education essentially, and the right had the presidency (Bush), congress(pre-2006), and talk-radio. It was a sort of balance I guess.
Now all that remains to the right is talk-radio and FOXnews.
They are waay outnumbered in the house and the senate, and Obama scored a 192 margin on electoral college votes.
So now they are RELLY LOUD and RELLY NUTSO.
No wonder the teabag demographic is morphing into Rage-grampas…they have been brutally disenfranchised into near voicelessness.
ruemara
@JK:
I’d like to introduce you to America and it’s particular brand of, white power, Maistre fellating, ignorance loving conservatives. Don’t stay too long, that stuff corrupts the gene pool.
Comrade Luke
@Texas Dem:
Serious question. If we don’t have the votes now, when will we have the votes?
What do we need – 70 seats in the Senate?
80?
Someday I’d like to see an actual vote before everything gets watered down because “we don’t have the votes”.
steve s
“As far as Hillary and heathcare? It would have been DOA and the right would have had a blast clubbing her like a baby seal.”
Good lord yes. A small fraction of Dems are already WATBs giving up on Obama after 6 months, can you imagine what it would have been like after 6 whole months of Sunday shows where panelists like Newt Gingrich and Dick Armey debate whether HillaryCare 2.0 will be the same catastrophic fuck up as last time, or several times worse.
“Well, George, I thought HillaryCare 1.0 was bad, but now she’s added Death Panels….
Uloborus
Personally, I’m generally satisfied with Obama’s performance. There are things he’s moving too slowly on for my taste, but that clearly is his style. He’s quite content to win a small gain, then shoot for the next one. Look at the Guantanamo situation. First he just made closing it a policy without doing anything. Then he amended the military courts to be in line with international law without getting rid of them. Then he applied started applying habeas corpus. He’s made deals to start moving some of the prisoners. Inch by inch by inch. He doesn’t try to do the whole thing at once, and then give up when it fails.
He’s also a moderate, not a liberal. I did kinda want a liberal, but I’m pretty happy with someone who loves the free market if he at least thinks you can love it too much.
And what’s he supposed to do more about health care? He’s out there over and over doing what the party doesn’t really have the guts to do – he goes on television and tells people, flat-out, that the lies are lies. He does it very politely and in an educated way. That’s his style. It got him elected. I personally think it’s better than the alternative. If he were full of bile and vitriol we’d be losing the moderates way faster. They’re not thrilled with the Dems hemming and hawwing, but they see the conservatives squalling like babies and shouting lies, and they hate that *more*.
But what I mainly like about this is something I mentioned earlier. I don’t see Obama as giving up when he doesn’t get the legislation he wants. If this reform bill utterly and wildly fails – which we have no reason to believe it will, but lord knows the Dems have thrown away sure things before – then he’ll start again from another angle. If a bill is passed that’s not enough, he’ll start working on a project to upgrade it.
It’s still early. I may be misreading what I see. But that’s what I see as his presidential style.