Chuck Lane’s piece on the end-of-life counseling provisions in the House health care bill is such pitch perfect contrarian, on-the-other-hand wankery that it ought to be put in a time capsule. Lane, you may recall, is the TNR editor who oversaw the Stephen Glass fiasco; he’s now a member of the Washington Post editorial board.
On the far right, this is being portrayed as a plan to force everyone over 65 to sign his or her own death warrant. That’s rubbish. Federal law already bars Medicare from paying for services “the purpose of which is to cause, or assist in causing,” suicide, euthanasia or mercy killing. Nothing in Section 1233 would change that.
Still, I was not reassured to read in an Aug. 1 Post article that “Democratic strategists” are “hesitant to give extra attention to the issue by refuting the inaccuracies, but they worry that it will further agitate already-skeptical seniors.”
If Section 1233 is innocuous, why would “strategists” want to tip-toe around the subject?
I can answer that one: it’s because we live in a country where batshit crazy people have a lot of influence. Next question.
The whole “I’m not a teabagger but reasonable people can dispute blah blah blah” shtick passed into the land of self-parody around the turn of the century.
Uncle Glenny
Bingo.
jl
I read someplace that the current end of life counseling legislation is modeled after a GOP initiative introduced by one of the Main Senators. I definitely remembering reading that someplace but cannot find it now.
Anyone know about the history of this.
If that is true, the this whole issue is pure BS.
Now, if we had a press that informed rather than trying to impress us with their elevated jackassery, essentially the same kind of tipsy beer talk we all do after work (except they get paid to fart out of their mouths) the debate in this country might be different.
Lane fell of the wagon while it was crossing opinionated jackass land a few years ago, and he is still wandering around in that territory.
Anyhoo, I am sure I read the current legislation is a repackaged version of something Collins or Snow introduced during Bush II time, and Bush II supported it. Anyone know?
Quiddity
At the end of the WaPo piece, it says “The writer is a member of the editorial page staff.”
Does that mean he’s like Hiatt in some way? A decider of content?
In any even, Lane actually bolsters some of the “death panel” freaks by saying that doctors are going to intimidate patients into signing on to euthanasia. Why? Because Lane claims there is a financial incentive for doctors to rid themselves of patients. Like the doctor is going to go for $500 and forsake treatment.
The Main Gauche of Mild Reason
Wow, apparently Chuck Lane hasn’t read any of the decent reporting on psychological surveys that show refuting misconceptions normally strengthens them…
The fact that he interprets this as “suspicious” really creates a damned-if you do/don’t scenario. I’m sure if they were more actively refuting the issue, he’d argue “then why do senior citizens continue to believe? they must’ve keyed into some seekrit truth!”
kommrade reproductive vigor
Here’s the thing no one mentions because it breaks the lovely SCARY DARK MANS WANTS TO KILL GRANDMA narrative:
In July 2008 Congress passed a law that included end of life counseling for new Medicare patients*. Doctors have to offer this counseling (but the patient can refuse it.) And of course, Medicare includes a hospice benefit.
I guess this is more proof that Bush was a stealth LIBERUL.
*I’m summarizing because it’s Sunday. Read about it here if you’re having trouble sleeping.
steve s
Chuck Lane is referred to as a certain overused term here in 3…2…
jl
@kommrade reproductive vigor: Thanks. I guess Lane was too busy spinning beer talk that we have into journamalism to check the history of the proposal.
But, hey, isn’t Lane’s claim to fame that he is a hardscrabble olde tyme INVESTIGATIVE reporter who gets the facts and gets them down cold? Not so much anymore, I guess.
So, another case of pure unadulterated BS from the wingnuts and ‘sensible moderates’ and incompated facile factfree contrarians. Next, please. Mickey Mouse Kaus on this yet?
El Cid
One of the key amendments accepted on “advanced care” (or “end-of-life”) planning was adopted into the proposed legislation as written by Republican Senator Johnny Isakson of Georgia.
Johnny. Isakson. R. GA.
And that’s in part because of the hellish chaos caused by the nuts around the Schiavo case.
jl
sorry, no edit: ‘incompated’ should be ‘nincompated’ = nincompoop + pate (head), from some poem by Wallace Stevens, I forget which. Our press is completely nincompated.
Neale
“The whole “I’m not a teabagger but reasonable people can dispute blah blah blah” shtick passed into the land of self-parody around the turn of the century.” vs “I’m not a Goldman conspiracy theorist, but I can certainly see why a lot of people are.” just a few posts before.
Isn’t that just a little self-contradictory?
evie
Thanks for the reminder about Glass.
It’s quite obvious what the provision is meant to do — cover people for counseling on end of life issues, when such things are not usually covered. To twist it in the way Lane has is appalling.
Thank goodness he’s on our side. What would happen if we had real enemies.
steve s
@El Cid: Pffft. That’s a fact. You can use _facts_ to prove anything that’s even remotely true.
jenniebee
This guy does know that Obama’s production of his birth certificate (to contradict rumors that his middle name was Mohammed instead of the oh-so-Main Street “Hussein”) was the progenitor of a movement that now claims that all their crazy speculation is Obama’s fault because he won’t just produce his birth certificate and prove them wrong, doesn’t he?
Does this work for everything? I think I have to go to work in the morning. Won’t somebody, oh won’t somebody please produce a few mil with my name on it and prove me wrong?
DougJ
Isn’t that just a little self-contradictory?
Touche. But honestly, I don’t completely buy Taibbi’s take on Goldman (too much association that might not be causation), while at the same time what went on last fall is awfully suspicious.
Crusty Dem
It’s never sufficient to call nonsense nonsense. No, we must also explain that those screaming said nonsense are doing it because those in favor of sanity haven’t clearly and concisely refuted the idiots to their satisfaction.
Shorter 17th century Chuck Lane:
If only Galileo showed more respect and answered questions clearly enough that all the stupid priests understood him, the whole heresy thing wouldn’t have been a problem.
Litlebritdifrnt
Fuckity fuck, fuck, fuck fuck, fuck. This scenario is so damn fucking stupid that I am actually tired of talking about it. I have been talking to others on other boards whereby people who are living in so called “socialized” medicine countries give wonderful stories of how their 80+ parents are given the absolute best treatment ever, I have told you of my mother’s treatment, and she is 75. If I hear this “killing anyone over the age of 70” once more I swear I am going to go fucking postal on someone.
jl
Yeah, just checked, Chuck Lane moved from reporting in Yugoslavia when things went down, to being a pooh-bah on Council on Foreign Affairs. A ‘foreign affairs expert’ for things like the CFR is the second or third oldest profession in the world, but IMHO opinion less honorable than the oldest. I forgot about the TNR Glass business, too. Now the guy just outgasses and pollutes the public debate.
El Cid
@steve s: Facts are gay. And they don’t know what’s good for ’em, neither. They best just shut up.
kommrade reproductive vigor
Isakson must be another stealth LIEberul!
In fact, every state is in the grip of LIEberul ACORN thugs.
Here’s another organization Chuck didn’t have time to check with because he was so busy not being a teabagger:
See, what I’m looking forward to is when various groups of health care professionals stand up and tell these assholes to shut up. Will the teabaggers decide to go Galt from health care or just declare everyone who offers health care a dirty fucking hippie?
*Seriously, I’m starting to think if a person is named Charles and works for the WaPo he is a super-sized douche.
The Grand Panjandrum AKA Americans for America
The teabaggers and other anti-reform lot use a ploy that works something like this. First they misuse or misdescribe some part healthcare reform legislation. Then they get a fact based rebuttal. Then, instead of dealing forthrightly with the charges leveled, they cite the rebuttal as evidence that there is a “controversy.”
Note that the trick is content-free. They can use it on any topic. “‘Doctor Emmanuel’s previous published writing supports my argument that the President’s death panels will euthanzie your granny (or child with Downs Syndrome!)” they say, misrepresenting Emmanuels’s work. When Emmanuel (or whoever) responds with a denunciation of the misuse of his work, they respond, saying something like: “See what a controversy we have here? Doctor Emmanuel (or any Democratic Congress critter) and I are locked in a titanic policy debate. We should slow down this rush to pass healthcare reform to make sure we know all the details.” And here is the delicious part: you can often exploit the very technicality of the issues to your own advantage, counting on most of us to miss the point in all the difficult details.
It’s worth pointing out that there are substantive arguments against portions of what is now proposed in the three seperate bills now in committe in the House but they are not yet part of the debate because the opposition is spinning its wheels with all the lies and deception. They are punching themselves out when no single piece of legislation exists to battle against.
burnspbesq
OT, but I wonder whether one of the Florida Senators or Congresscritters will introduce legislation to temporarily relax the Cuba embargo to deal with this humanitarian crisis.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/6001005/Cuba-runs-out-of-lavatory-paper.html
gwangung
They perfected this in their attacks on science, particularly in trying to shoehorn creationism into high school biology courses.
Basically, Chuck Lane is acting like an ignorant creationist.
jl
Thanks for the info. Lane also does not seem to understand how Medicare works. Being ‘reimbursable’ means you get paid for giving the service. Lane makes it sound like there is some special monetary incentive.
The way things work now, if it is not reimbursable, then the docs won’t do it. That is the way everything works in fee for service medicare. If you don’t get reimbursed for a five minute smoking cessation counseling cessation, it probably won’t get done even if the patient is at risk from smoking related disease.
Unless some one is in a capitated managed care program, in which case, there will be protocol for what should be done periodically in patient encounters, and the doc has to tick off a little box and that says “I asked the patient if they wanted end of life counseling” and “Patient said yes, so I gave it” in order for the doc to get administrative brownie points. In which case, that would be fodder for another 100% bogus scandal.
jl
@gwangung: OK, thanks, I will go back to my gut instinct of calling them damnable liars and pig’s asses. That fits my mood better.
Persia
@Litlebritdifrnt: With their health problems, it’ll be a damn miracle if either of my parents even make it to 75. Sometimes I wish I could punch people over the Internet.
JK
I have never gone from mildly optimistic (Inauguration Day) to totally pessimistic (tonight) so fast at any other time in my life.
I don’t see enough compelling, effective, trenchant, and persuasive voices to push back against the torrential downpour of bullshit coming from lying assholes Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Glenn Reynolds, Michelle Malkin, Sean Hannity, Bill O’Reilly, Ann Coulter, Laura Ingraham, George Will, Bill Kristol, Megan McArdle, et al. The playing field looks pretty fucking uneven to me. The rightwing has an absolute stranglehold on talk radio, dominates the op-ed pages of the major newspapers, and dominates the guest lists and roundtable panels of the Sunday talk shows. Check the websites of Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting http://www.fair.org and Media Matters http://mediamatters.org to see how the right has such an overwhelming advantage over the left in all forms of media.
Dave C
In order to take that opinion piece at face value, one must assume that Lane is more naive about the way media narratives are propagated than is an average 11-year-old. In other words, it’s perfectly clear what he’s up to here.
steve s
..1…
jwb
@The Grand Panjandrum AKA Americans for America: “the opposition is spinning its wheels with all the lies and deception.”
It’s really all just grand theater at this point, and if the Dems just go about their business and pass whatever they can come to agreement on, there really isn’t a whole lot for them to worry about. When they first came back to the tea-ruptions, they were caught off-stride, to be sure, but no one seems to have panicked, and at this point I’m not hearing anyone sounding overly concerned. I think they’ve more or less decided to let the wingnuts make a spectacle of themselves and suck up the media attention while they work out the details on the compromise—at which point they will have a plan to defend and can say, “yes, I’ve read it all, and, no, there is no provision to kill grandma.”
mai naem
@jl:
The fact that this has to be in the legislation should actually be shedding light on how screwed our system is. If we had a true single payer system we wouldn’t be having a discussion about a physician having a discussion about end of life issues because it would be assumed that a physician would be doing it.
steve s
what would happen if congresspeople started requiring a photo ID to get into the town halls? The dipshit winger relatives I have would be terrified and stay home. I wonder how broadly that would work.
kth
According to Mark Kleiman, the one factual claim Lane makes in his piece–that the end of life counseling provision comes in a larger section devoted to cost-cutting–is completely wrong.
steve s
they could say it would be to make sure people weren’t being brought in from elsewhere to disrupt the meetings.
El Cid
I can’t help but be curious about the mental movie playing out in the nut squads head of how this senior euthanizing and baby killing would go down.
I imagine it goes so far as to believe that there would be thousands of old people and disabled kids per year sentenced to death (denied treatment by DEATH PANEL ) and it would never even make the newspapers because of course all the newspapers are Obamabots and if not then the ACORN thugs would show up and show them their clipboards and black skin and then the newspapers would be scared away from covering it.
uila
I believe it was LBJ who supposedly said: “I know my opponent does not have sex with goats, I just want him to deny it.”
jl
@kth: Thanks for that, I guess. What a load of burning stupid. Kleiman also links to doofus named Anderson who thinks that that it would be in a fee for service doctors interest to kill off a patient to get some piddly little fee for a counseling session that last a few minutes. Sure…
The Anderson piece is at the Volokh Conspiracy, which is reputed to be a Top Conservative Intellectual Blog. Lordy. Dumb as a box of rocks, at least when it comes to economics.
The catch phrase ‘the stupid, it burns’ never really registered with me. Now, it does. What a bunch of dolts and weasels.
gwangung
@jl: Well, that’s killing them with compliments, but whatever floats your boat….
(Dealing with denialists like creationists makes me pissy….)
jl
The bizarre thing is, people are killed every day in the US by insurance company and HMO ‘death panels’: arbitrary requirements for pre-authorization, telephone triage given by ‘advice nurses’ working off of untested corporate produced clinical protocols, recissions for trivial reasons, skimping on continuity or care, rushed hospital discharges for financial reasons, often dictated by financial managers who insist everyone come in under average cost, not doctors or nurses on the scene and with the patient.
the stupid… IT BURNS!
Pavlov's Dog
It’s hard not to just laugh at these idiots. Wife and I have a “gold plated” health care plan. I have been paying our medical bills, as well as my parents via Medicare for at least the last decade.
Guess what, the both pay identical. Oh sure, maybe five more bucks on copay, or a few more dollars in catastrophic, but we are talking lunch money. The morons can disrupt all the town halls they want, but next month we will pass health care reform and the chicken littles will once again look like the idiots they always have been.
Anne Laurie
The alternative view? That when every trumpet, trombone, and tuba in the Stupid Marching Band has been enlisted to come out blaring the same “ZOMG TEH SOSHALIST GRANNY-KILLERS! ! ! ” bvllshit, it’s a pretty clear indicator that our side has a pretty compelling argument in the mind of the average voter already. One thing to keep in mind about the Terri Shiavo case is that John was *not* the only life-long Republican who’d end up leaving the GOP as a result of it — there were a lot of people saying, anonymously or not, something along the lines of “I watched my grandma / dad / spouse / dear friend decline and suffer horribly and needlessly, and god forbid I should ever go through the kind of hell no responsible pet-owner would visit on a cat or dog.” These people probably won’t stand up on camera when the astroturf teabaggers yammer, but believe me, if you’re over 40 you’ve probably faced the End-of-Life Issue at the pointy end and even the strict fundamentalists won’t necessarily fall in line behind the Stupid Marching Band.
ninerdave
Opinion != Fact. Opinion == Opinion. People looking for fact should not look to opinion pieces. Opinion means that the writer is pushing an agenda. It’s actually one of my fears of the new media…is that it will all be opinion based; no reporting….that aside…
Now, I’m not denying the subtext here, and it’s fucking stupid.
However via TPM:Reich points out how Obama is fucking us
Not good. While it’s fun and probably ultimately productive, to poke fun at the other side, we should also watch what’s happening on our side. Can’t say I’m much of a fan.
Chuck Butcher
@steve s:
Hi my name is Steve S and I’m addicted to asshattery.
Insanity – trying the same thing and expecting different results
steve s
Your name is Steve S? What a coincidence!
Fulcanelli
“Death Panel”?
That reeks of Frank Luntz. In a perfect world, that fucker would have his tongue torn out of his head, ‘Mark of the Devil’ style, to atone for all the times he’s successfully taken an important issue and given it a horrific label to stupefy and scare the FSM out of low-bandwidth, dumb ass voters. Isn’t “Death Tax” another of his jewels of the Gooper fear-mongering lexicon?
Isn’t it ironic considering how the American right wing’s propensity and enthusiasm for activities that result in the death of SOMEBODY ELSE, they are so easily spooked into shitting their own britches when somebody says “BOO! OUR GUB’MINT COULD DO THIS TO US MILDRED!”
kommrade reproductive vigor
@jl: Yes, but that’s the beauty of the free market at work. People should just pull themselves up by their bootstraps so they can afford better coverage.
/Teabagger
MBSS
this issue transcends politics, and touches on the open nerve of how we in the west treat death. we ignore it, and hope it will go away.
steve s
@ninerdave: That piece is interesting. But I’m less upset than Reich. He thinks that drug companies will push through universal health care and then get superrich off it. Does that suck? Sure. But the current system is no universal health care _and_ the drug companies are getting superrich. I’ll take that.
Davis X. Machina
I propose a half-a-loaf sort of compromise solution, such as keeping the Obama death panels, but having them composed of awesome celebrities, especially now that Paula Abdul is leaving American Idol.
Fulcanelli
Sigh. All this talk about facts, leaves me cross eyed and painless…
Facts are simple and facts are straight
Facts are lazy and facts are late
Facts all come with points of view
Facts don’t do what I want them to
Facts just twist the truth around
Facts are living turned inside out
Facts are getting the best of them
Facts are nothing on the face of things
Facts don’t stain the furniture
Facts go out and slam the door
Facts are written all over your face
Facts continue to change their shape
And I’m still waiting…
burnspbesq
@El Cid:
”
I can’t help but be curious about the mental movie playing out in the nut squads head of how this senior euthanizing and baby killing would go down.”
Remember the “Star Trek” episode where two neighboring planets had been at war for so long that instead of fighting actual battles it was all done by computer simulations, and the “casualties” voluntarily turned themselves in to be killed?
MBSS
i propose we solve this entire health care issue using solely the free market, in the form of: health care game shows.
throw a bunch of overpriced meds in a caged ring, and let the geriatrics go at it.
they get meds, and we get some productivity out of the elderly; walmart can’t carry all the load hiring grandma and gramps.
all i need is some financial backing and hello “lifestyles of the rich and famous.”
god bless america.
JK
@Anne Laurie:
You are a very thoughtful, level headed person. I hope and pray that you are correct.
Joshua Norton
@Davis X. Machina:
And I think there should be a talent portion of the interview. I can still do a decent version of “Corner of the Sky” after about 3 bourbons, so my ass is safe.
Playing “Lady of Spain” on the accordion is immediate grounds for going to the top of the to-do list.
burnspbesq
@Fulcanelli:
You’ve just stumbled on the Grand Plan: the euthanasia squads are intended to accelerate estate tax receipts.
JK
@Fulcanelli:
John Adams – “Facts are stubborn things”
Ronald Reagan botching Adams’ quote – “Facts are stupid things”
MBSS
@ JK
David Brooks – Facts?
Bdeevdad
The reason the right freaks out about end of life counseling and living wills can be summed up in two words
Terri Schiavo
Chuck Butcher
You have a weak kneed so what health care proposal on the table and people are losing their mind? Where we’re headed is pouring piles of money into HealthInc and getting a freaking paint job instead of a rebuild.
This is like waxing hell out of a rusted dead engine hulk and calling it a new car. If you think the banks made out like bandits from their self initiated disaster wait until you see how HealthInc does out of this.
The “you’re screwed” started months ago, not in the last weeks.
ellaesther
Though, in fairness, there were no teabaggers at the turn of the century.
Other than, you know, teabaggers: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=teabag
burnspbesq
This is worth a read, even if it is from the Atlantic:
http://jamesfallows.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/08/lets_mark_this_moment_in_the_h.php
Davis X. Machina
The euthanasia squads are intended to accelerate estate tax receipts.
On the other hand, Republican opposition to the estate tax is illogical, because you only pay it if you die — that’s why they call it the ‘death tax’.
Now in good Pigovian fashion we tax behaviors whose incidence we want to reduce, like smoking. So the higher the rate of the estate tax, the stronger the disincentive to die. Theoretically, as the estate tax asymptotically approaches 100%, the mortality rate will asymptotically approach 0%.
And that would do more for America than any health care plan.
Perry Como
Fax: beeeepbooooooshhhhhhhrrrrrrrrrrr
Obama Death Panel Chairman (formerly glocksman)
@jl:
The Volokh Conspiracy was at one time a pretty heavily big-‘L’ Libertarian, but respected, legal blog.
I say at one time because over the last few years they’ve pretty much thrown away their social and legal libertarianism in favor of the ‘national security state’ model (2A issues being the one exception) and cling even tighter today to the utter insanity that is Libertarian economic theory.
Fulcanelli
@Bdeevdad: “The reason the right freaks out about end of life counseling and living wills can be summed up in two words
Terri Schiavo”
…Damn it Bobby Lee, it was one thing when George W. Bush was in charge, he’s a white man and a Christian, he’d a’ never come fer one of his own, but with a ‘nigra in the White House, and a furriner to boot, we’re doomed! Doomed, I tells ‘ya!…
I suppose it’s obvious I fed up with having to tolerate the antics of the 28% of America that intends on stamping it’s feet and shitting itself in public until time starts going backward.
/rant
JK
@MBSS:
I’m not following you. Did David Brooks pontificate on the value of facts? I make a studious effort to avoid reading his column. I get my fill of David Brooks Friday nights on the NewsHour with Jim Lehrer.
MBSS
@ JK
oh, i just found out that “fax” and David Brooks are mutually exclusive.
i saw him at the applebee’s salad bar, loading up heavy on ranch, like the rest of us plebeians. he said that he was wearing a new synthetic sweater that repels facts, and simply wicks them away.
ellaesther
@Anne Laurie: I think that, for the most part, you’re very right, especially about this: …it’s a pretty clear indicator that our side has a pretty compelling argument in the mind of the average voter already — which is to say that angry people tend to do desperate things when they can tell that they’re losing.
However, that’s also what worries me: The more desperate already desperate people get, the more likely they are to lash out, and I am really, deeply worried that we are inches away from murderous violence. You don’t need a whole lot of people to do real damage — you just need one.
MTiffany
Reasonable people can disagree. But we’re not dealing with reasonable people anymore. The Republicans are so far gone the majority of them are beyond reason. If you present the Republicans with facts, they counter with insanity:
For example, if you say to a Republican: “The world’s petroleum resources are finite and will some day be exhausted. The only question is when. So our national strategy should center on finding an economical replacement for petroleum, the sooner, the better.” The typical Republican responds “You hate America! You’re what’s wrong with America! The reason why we’ll run out of oil is because you’re not a real Christian. If everybody in America were a real Christian, America wouldn’t be in any danger of running out of oil because Jesus would make more. Dwindling oil reserves is God’s punishment for your wickedness.”
If you say to a Republican “Global warming is real and it is caused by the buildup of man-made greenhouse gases released by industrial activity.” The typical Republican responds by saying that “Global warming is a lie told by secular humanists who want to weaken America and turn it communist and queer. Even if global warming were real, the Earth has survived dinosaurs and floods and ice ages throughout its six thousand year history and will only end when God chooses to end it. So global warming, even if it were real, which it isn’t, wouldn’t be a problem because the Bible doesn’t say anything about it so that means God isn’t going to let it happen.”
The typical Republican is just too far gone to even talk to.
JK
@MBSS:
It aggravates the hell out of me that Obama’s opponents seem 1,000 times more energized right now than Obama’s supporters.
ellaesther
@ninerdave: Well, yes. But, as a writer of opinion pieces (for miserable pay at major dailies for years; now for no pay at all at my own blog! Progress!), I will say this — a good opinion writer bases his or her opinion pieces in facts (ok, actually, any thinking person bases his or her opinions in facts), and then expresses an opinion about those facts. If you’re good at your job, you don’t lie or misrepresent the facts, and if the facts don’t line up with your opinions, you change your opinions (witness: one “John Cole” and his break-up with the entire Republican Party). My pieces almost always required at least some reporting, and they still do. When my original plan didn’t/doesn’t line up with the reporting, I changed/change the plan.
I’m not saying that David Brooks does or does not do this, (though, for my money, he’s one of the few on that side of the fence who does, actively, think, rather than just react) — I’m just speaking up for opinion writers everywhere…. Unite! And all that.
MBSS
the republicans are having a collective psychosis and the virulent rage is bubbling up from the depths of their souls. it’s about more than just health care.
it’s about change.
it’s about the shrinking white majority and their children who date blacks and mexicans.
it’s about economic uncertainty, and being confused and spun (in both senses of the word,) not knowing who to blame.
a black president, shrinking power, the world spinning faster and faster, and no way back to the segregated america of yesteryear.
also the GOP bosses live and breathe by whipping up fear in their constituents. it’s the best and worst way to manipulate people.
best because it forces people to act.
worst because when people figure out how they have been manipulated they lash out.
we are at the point where the U.S., as a collective, figures out the “Big Scam,” in short order. and we on the left are figuring out who to blame. the real bad guys. eventually the right will catch on too. then there will be a revolution. it can be peaceful or it can be violent.
Martin
To what end are we supposed to get energized? Are we supposed to refute the rantings of a million two year-olds? I’d be better off trying to convince the apple tree in my back yard to grow lemons.
There’s no debate here to engage in, and having a million progressives out there trying to outshout a million delusional racists isn’t going to do anything but give Brian Williams more b-roll than he’s ever used in his career.
MBSS
i guess my post begs the question: who are the “real bad guys?”
unfortunately, i would have to say one of them is us. what do we believe is “the good life?” how much more conspicuous consumption do we need? how do we feel about war? about each other? we have a lot of growing up to do as a nation.
butwe didn’t get this way organically. there has been a concerted push, lasting many years, and consuming many dollars and minds. advertising is ubiquitous, and we recount our childhoods by using advertiser’s jingles. corporate power and their government pawns have created the ultimate population of lazy, ignorant, greedy, and superficial cows and as long as we have sports and buffalo wings “we’re good.”
they said “just play the game, work your way up. success is possible for you too!” and this launched a thousand ayn rands, and amways, and pyramid schemes. but the game is rigged. G.S. shows us that republican or democrat we are all getting fucked by a stock market that has two faces, one for the insiders, and one for the serfs. vegas is better odds. the playing field has always been slanted, and even libertarians who are getting raped too, but are too blinded by ideology to see it, will one day wake up as well.
this isn’t capitalism. this isn’t fair. this is a corporate oligarchy, and we have been sleepwalking in a xanax haze for far too many years.
Brian J
I’m all for the appearance of objectivity, even when the point of the article in question is to call one side on its bullshit. There’s not much to be gained for a mainstream publication like The New York Times, for instance, printing an extremely partisan piece in its news pages concerning health care, something that reads like it was printed from an inflammatory blog. At the the same time, why aren’t they being called out more than they are now? The right is going to bitch and moan no matter what happens, so if you have the facts to back you up, there’s no reason a paper can’t write something like “The claims by the Republican House leader, Mr. Boehner (R-OH), do not match what is printed in the bill.” I’d hope they’d call out the Democrats just as much as the Republicans, but even if they didn’t, there’s nothing wrong with screaming “BULLSHIT” while not using that tone. What they are doing now isn’t winning them any favors with the Republicans, so why are they trying?
ninerdave
@ellaesther:
Fair enough, I appreciate that, and yeah my comment was broad brush. However, it seems that anyone can write an opinion piece anymore and get published, irregardless of the facts involved. It’s an outgrowth of what I see as the laziness of the MSM. It’s easier to quote both sides and call it a piece, than it is to dig and fact check the arguments. It also pays more to drum up a controversy, where little, if none exists, and that requires two sides to an argument where ofttimes there is the facts on one side, then on the other, ginned up charges.
It’s obvious that the lazy MSM media is on their way out (in print at least) if they don’t wake up and smell the coffee. However I’m not sure that blogs, the HuffPo and the like are ready to replace them. I see a world soon where you can read what you like and never have your world view questioned. Maybe it’s already here. Regardless, that would be as antithetical to a functioning democracy, as the Robert Reich piece at TPM I mentioned above.
MBSS
@ninerdave
sorry to point this out. (since my editing skills and grammar are quite horrid)
but irregardless isn’t a word, it’s just regardless.
ninerdave
@Martin:
Bullshit. There is plenty for you to do. Call AND email your reps daily as well as the dem leadership in the house and senate. You have a cell phone with a ton of free minutes you never use, I assume….use them now.
Demand a robust public option. If your rep is planning an open town hall, show up. Don’t engage the rightwing mob, video tape the proceedings. Get in line to ask a question if you can, then ask a question about their support for health care reform, or state your demands.
Takes about 10 minute out of your day plus the time, if any, to attend a town hall. If you’re not doing this, and instead grousing about it here, you’re as much of a problem as the teabaggers.
steve s
Right. Objectivity should not be confused with political neutrality. “The claims by the Republican House leader, Mr. Boehner (R-OH), do not match what is printed in the bill.” is objective. “Mr. Boehner has the reasoning skills of an orangutan high on crack” is not objective. True, but not objective. For whatever reason, ‘being objective’ has become confused with ‘writing things which give no indication which claims are true and which are false’. It’s fake balance, and it’s happily utilized by people spreading bullshit, be they opponents of health care reform or opponents of evolution.
ninerdave
@MBSS:
Au Contraire: Mr. Mirriam-Webster disagrees with you:
Although they agree with you in that I should use regardless instead. Irregardless noted for future posts :)
ninerdave
Crap…stupid not being able to edit posts:
Should be “Regardless, noted for future posts :)”
MBSS
:)
btw, i like the 9ers too.
steve s
And be smart about communication. Write down your question beforehand. Examine it, try to think of the most concise way to phrase it. I’m always amazed, listening to NPR call in shows, how many idiots call with stuff like , “Uh, okay, I have a four-part question, first, going back to the Peloponnesian war it seems like blah blah blah blah blah…” and after about 45 seconds of babble with no clear idea where this is going the host has to cut him off and the question gets shortchanged. Make it quick and punchy.
MBSS
this is a sporty website.
John Cole is gonna do a KO in reverse and go from politics to sports.
Mnemosyne
Anyone else notice that the only two members of Congress pictured were Nancy Pelosi and Charles Rangel?
Yeah, no dogwhistles there.
Mnemosyne
D’oh! Wrong thread. Stupid Safari tabs.
YellowJournalism
You want to know why they don’t try to refute it? Because of people like Terri Shiavo’s parents. People who don’t know what brain dead means. People who don’t understand why a person would sign a DNR and not want to be hooked up to feeding tubes and respirators. People like my family members who claim to this day that we “killed” my grandmother by following her wishes and not allowing her to be hooked up to a feeding tube. People who are not willing to accept that hospice care is not euthanasia but a way to allow a terminally ill person to spend their last days at home, trying to enjoy the few moments left. These people are in actuality afraid of death in general and of their own mortality, so they cling to any shred of hope for life that they can, despite who it may hurt or whose wishes it may go against.
I can’t help but think that an actual counseling session would make it easier for some of those people to accept certain end-of-life decisions and make these decisions as a family in a sane, rational way that could eleviate some of their fears and guilty feelings. Then people like Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck come around with their talk of death panels and euthanasia for the elderly…
Comrade Kevin
@steve s: your concern-trollingly conern trolling of the concern trolling of this website is concern-trollishly trollish.
steve s
Also, make it patriotic and frickin Dire. Steal the Values frame from the GOP. “Right now if you lose your job you lose your healthcare. Millions of American families go bankrupt when this happens. What will you do to protect our American families from that?”
steve s
ah, Comrade, that’s the good stuff. Your peers have been grumpy and withholding that from me.
Jason Bylinowski
Man….what is is going to take to get this country’s smarter folks to wake up? I’m sorry if it’s a downer, but it’s it’s been a hell of a week. After this week, no Republican shall ever get away with saying “liberal media” to my face again. I mean, that’s the big lesson for me this week. They DOMINATE the media, I’m sure it’s been noticed already by smarter people than me, but up until Obama got into office I actually did kinda think that the media runs a little left, because to me it makes sense that a vocation like journalism would attract people who care about inequity, which is kinda how I identify the origins of my own liberalism.
This week has just shot all of that to hell. CNN is playing softball as usual. Talk radio is no better or worse than it was a year ago, wihch means it’s a piece of shit. Even NPR, the last desperately outflanked bastion of civility in news reportage, even they are giving far too much credibility to some of the most dishonest demogoguery I have ever heard on the healthcare reform “debate”. MSNBC is doing what it does best, sensationally covering the news: yeah, they have some good people but Comcast doesn’t even carry MSNBC to basic cable anymore, so what good does it do our cause if it’s not being disseminated in any meaningful way?
I just feel as if the whole thing has been a joke on me/us. I feel like Obama is kind of a joke, too. I think he might actually really care about this issue; he certainly has reason to care, from the level of his own personal experience. But I’m just not seeing the bravery that I think needs to be shown on this to get it over this hump. And that’s the worst part: all of this is surmountable!!!! Andrew Sullivan always says Obama has a knack for being the grownup in the room, and I agree with that characterization as far as it goes…..but after six months of constant concession to Bush’s legacy, I really am starting to wonder, what changed when Obama took office which made him kinda say goodbye to a lot of his promises. Transparency, renewed commitment for the rule of law, and a healthcare commitment; these are the three reasons I voted for Obama, and not a one of them is really being properly tended to.
Look, sorry to be full of piss and vinegar. On healthcare, there’s still time, and who knows what the next poll will show as regards all of the hoopla that came about last week – it could be that the right has overplayed here. But the independents are, as ever, pretty wishy washy and I almost expect to see that they like this new side of the GOP. I hope it works out. And, completely off subject, I also hope to be proven wrong on Obama’s failed pledge of transparency, but so far I’m not seeing any real progress. Sometimes it sucks to live in South Carolina. The republicans rule here; hell, I work for the local republican party chairman (nice guy but naturally we don’t agree on much) and regularly update their website. I’m also in charge of all his correspondence with Gresham Barrett, our representative – & I could tell you some stories that would make your head spin, but I won’t because I’m not anonynmous on the internet. Man, we don’t even have a democratic party office in our town, so I have noone to organize with, but I wish I did because at this point it would really make me feel better to get out on the streets.
Is anyone here planning anything proactive in the next week or two, because I’d totally love to get on board with it even if it’s only virtual.
Chuck Butcher
Journalism is not supposed to be stenography and when facts dispute a statement, they should be noted.
I’d also like to stand up for opinion writers and commentators, there is nothing in the description that says facts are optional. The amount of emphasis a fact gets may have some partisanship, but lying isn’t opinion writing or commentary – it’s hackery. It used to be expected that partisanship didn’t trump facts, but news organizations wonder why profits plumet.
bartkid
So, this is the weekend that a majority of the Republic Party woke up and thought they were living in The Turner Diaries?
steve s
Uh….did you notice who won last year’s elections? Did you notice how the republicans were removed from the House, the Senate, and the White House?
Also, take a look at demographics. Take a look at the smart young folks coming up. How many of them voted for McCain? Not very many.
The tards are being loud and obnoxious at the moment, but don’t mistake that for popularity. Open up Excel and graph the % of the presidential vote won by republicans since nixon’s 60% victory in 1968. The trend is down, down, down.
And then buy Ruy Teixeira’s book for much greater depth than I can provide.
steve s
Newspaper profits haven’t gone down for ideological reasons. They’ve gone down for technological reasons. Advertisers aren’t stuck with newspapers as local printing-press monopolies anymore. 10 years ago a private math tutor like myself paid $100 for a little 4-line text ad in the classifieds of the Raleign News and Observer. Now I post big splashy ads on Craigslist for free. Papers don’t make money off your home subscription, they lose money doing that. They make money off ads, and their ad revenue has gone down 40-50% because of the internet.
Chuck Butcher
@Jason Bylinowski:
There may be no office but I’d bet there is a County Party, your state Party website should have contact info for the Co Chair. Offices cost money and if you aren’t the majority party money is tough (ask me, I’m a County Chair).
If there isn’t a County Party your State Party will be real glad to help you put one together, yes, that is a shitload of work. But then, it all is if you want to have influence.
I have two US Senators who pay attention to my thinking and I’m on first name basis with enough State pols to lose count. It cost me a lot of work and a lot of close thinking but not much money (good since I don’t have), You’d have to cough up a real shitpot of money to match my access and even then not get as much respect. You think you’re smart, right, and good – there is a way to have access but it’s a lot of work. (I keep saying that – it is)
You want to do something in that area, email me once you know what is what and I’m willing to be whatever help I can. Addy on my blog.
steve s
btw, I also do math tutoring over the phone and internet. Email [email protected] for very reasonable rates. (I have a Bachelor’s in physics, and references available upon request)
Zuzu's Petals
@Quiddity:
Well if Medicare is only offering to pay for one session, I doubt it’s $500.
Jason Bylinowski
@Chuck Butcher:
Thanks Chuck. (and also to steve s for some historical perspective) I got a bit of sleep since posting and I think the pity party has pulled out of town for awhile. But the need to participate is still there, so once tomorrow proper rolls around and I can get a minute for lunch, I’m going to locate my county party office (just found a page for it on the internet, so I know it exists) and see what there is to do.
I work on computers & write quirky little songs. Obsessive amounts of both. I don’t have a lot of insight to offer politically as I’ve only been really very active since 2002, so getting access personally to some of these guys is not really all that important to me. It would be cool, but not necessary for my sanity. I’d be happy just working peripherally (like I could do website work, etc) and just having some local folks to talk to about this stuff. It’s very easy to feel isolated here, being that I was raised Catholic (strike one), have leftwards opinions (strike two), and do not make much money (yer out!), and even though it helps to run a little blog or be a small part of a really ace commentariat, there’s no substitute for face to face discussion.
Anyway, thanks again for the advice.
kay
It’s a shame, because the Washington Post is uniquely situated to provide a real service here. Information on health care reform.
Instead, they’ve decided to do the laziest, lamest analysis possible, opinion.
It goes beyond a business decision, because of where they are, and what they are.
It’s as if the Detroit paper had just decided not to cover any real news regarding problems or proposed solutions in the auto industry. All that ready access to people and information, and we get a series of advocacy ads, complete with speculation about the evil intent of mysterious Democrats.
Shame.
bob h
Susan Collins, who put the end-of-life thing in the bill, could come forward and clarify this. But is she frightened of her Teabaggers, too?
kay
Here’s how an information source might, um, offer information:
“Conservative critics say the legislation could limit end-of-life care and even encourage euthanasia. Moreover, some assert, it would require people to draw up plans saying how they want to die.
These concerns appear to be unfounded. AARP, the lobby for older Americans, says, “The rumors out there are flat-out lies.”
The House bill would provide Medicare coverage for optional consultations with doctors who advise patients on life-sustaining treatment and “end-of-life services,” including hospice care. ”
It’s from the NYTimes primer on health care reform.
Napoleon
Amazingly Lane’s piece appears in the same paper that ran this:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/06/AR2009080603854.html
El Cid
@bob h: It was also right wing Georgia Republican Senator Johnny Isakson — it’s his wording in an amendment about “advanced care” planning — but he’s not saying much either.
Napoleon
Whats funny is the AARP supports this reform. Of course why would any organization support legislation that killed off its membership.
bob
kay: “All that ready access to people and information, and we get a series of advocacy ads, complete with speculation about the evil intent of mysterious Democrats.
Shame.”
It’s not a shame, it’s a clue.
kay
@bob:
I believe you. I just don’t think we can prove it, yet :)
I love newspapers. The WSJ put out a single issue on the auto industry at the height of the crisis last spring that was just a beautiful piece of work. Interviewed hundreds of people. Reams of current data, and it was interesting. No opinion. No rehashed theories. I can’t imagine what it cost to create.
Montysano
A letter to the editor this morning in our local paper hits the quin
trifecta: Communist, Hitler, birth certificate, kill Granny, and “Wake up and take our country back”. But of course the reader adds that she is “not a racist”, even though she lives in one of the birthplaces of the KKK.lotus
Benen was busy praising Stephanopoulos for correcting Newtie yesterday when this commenter made a point we’d do well to keep in mind — and share:
“Petey,” you over here too? If so, thanks.
lotus
Aha. Thought my p-tags would work, but they didn’t.
El Cid
” I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK !!! ”
” NO. YOU CAN’T HAVE IT BACK. LAST TIME YOU HAD IT YOU BROKE IT. NOW BE QUIET. “
AkaDad
…but I’m willing to try.
Call me.
chopper
@YellowJournalism:
my dad died at home, under hospice care. he refused a new round of chemo when his cancer came back because he didn’t want to go through with it again. he was ready to die on his own, on his own terms. he had a DNR i think, i know he didn’t want to be hooked up to tubes and what-not, and he had a living will.
of course, he had to have a discussion with his doctor about this. when your patient refuses a possibly life-saving treatment like chemo it’s your job to discuss it and make sure they know what they’re refusing.
this is standard stuff in any doctor-patient relationship.
then i read the garbage that palin and her ilk are saying, that basically doing this same sort of thing is akin to the nazis coming for your ‘subhuman’ autistic kid or something and it makes me so goddamn angry.
Napoleon
In a related matter, health care reform opponent who protested last week now seeks donations for health care since he lost his when laid off.
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_08/019423.php
Obama Death Panel Chairman (formerly glocksman)
@Montysano:
A letter to the editor this morning in our local paper hits the quintrifecta: Communist, Hitler, birth certificate, kill Granny, and “Wake up and take our country back”. But of course the reader adds that she is “not a racist”, even though she lives in one of the birthplaces of the KKK.
And of course the author is totally unaware of the irony inherent of someone claiming to be a ‘freedom maker’ shouting the English equivalent of Deutschland Erwache.
Davis X. Machina
Susan Collins, who put the end-of-life thing in the bill, could come forward and clarify this. But is she frightened of her Teabaggers, too?
She will take a position as soon as her staffers work out how it affects her 2012 Presidential plans*, and there are enough cameras gathered. (See ‘Stimulus bill’)
* Yes, I’m serious. She is, in her own head — or those of her staffers, since hers is largely empty — the Answer for what ails the GOP. Northern, when the party is seen as captive to southerners, moderate when ditto to extremists, pro-choice when ditto to the fetus people, ‘authentic’ when ditto to hacks like Lott and Barbour, sane when ditto to the crazies — and a woman. The anti-Palin, right down to never missing a roll-call vote in the Senate.
Watch for her ‘Howard Dean’ moment — remember when he said ‘I represent the Democratic wing of the Democratic party’ early in 2003 in Cali, and caught fire?
Davis X. Machina
Sheesh, I use an asterisk, I got bold. I used a double dash, I got a horizontal rule. Why did I waste my time learning HTML, if the ferkakhte software’s going to do it for me?
kay
“For the second time in a little over a month, Sen. John Cornyn (R-TX) was greeted by boos in his home state. According to a local news report, Cornyn was jeered while leaving a health care event in Austin, TX.”
He was booed because he said he was committed to children’s health care.
That’ s really a non-issue for Republicans, so Cornyn is being dishonest, Republicans have blocked every attempt over the last twenty years to increase access to health care for children, and we’ve made real progress in spite of them.
BUT, I think it’s important to stop pretending that these people are opposing “Obamacare” or any specific provision.
They oppose health care reform, and they plan to block it.
Any reform.
Mike G
This takes the prize for the stupidest statement so far in the King Stupid Repig screamathon against health insurance reform, in an editorial in a daily newspaper read by millions, no less:
“People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn’t have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless”.
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=333933006516877
(Hawking has lived in the UK for all of his 67 years)
Trying to outdo the WSJ in stupid editorial content, I suppose. It’s difficult to take the news and financial analysis of these publications seriously when they make such sloppy errors and publish such political hackery.
Vince Ouellette
The provision requiring that Medicare pay for voluntary end-of-life counseling was introduced by Senator Johnny Isakson, Republican — yes, Republican — of Georgia, who says that it’s “nuts” to claim that it has anything to do with euthanasia.