I have a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that the same people who wanted to investigate Bill Clinton for an affair with an intern don’t want to investigate the Bush administration for torture and illegal surveillance. And I wish that the argument were phrased in these terms more often. So I was glad to see this from Marcy Wheeler (via):
“Your idea is that after investigating Bill Clinton for a blow job for like five years, we shouldn’t investigate the huge, grossly illegal things that were done under the past administration, only because Alberto Gonzales was too much in the back pocket of Dick Cheney to do it while he was still in office.”
MSNBC apologized for Wheeler’s choice of words. They didn’t apologize for Pat Buchanan’s comments about killing Levi Johnston.
I decided to give fifty bucks to the Marcy Wheeler Investigative Blogging Fund and from now on I’m going to do the same for anyone with a donation page who says something that blunt and accurate on teevee.
Update. Via JK, Howie Kurtz has his panties in a twist about this:
Hey, I’m not objecting to the Clinton/BJ not-so-bad argument uttered by the MSNBC guest, but the word. Whatever happened to euphemisms?
General Winfield Stuck
Well, she could have gone with the well scrubbed term Fellating, but then the wingnuts wouldn’t have understood, nor gotten the irony.
JK
Marcy Wheeler offended the delicate, genteel sensibility of Howard Kurtz
Howard Kurtz Tweet
Howard Kurtz can go fuck himself. I’m so sick of this sanctimonious dirtbag.
JK
For some reason beyond my comprehension, Pat Buchanan is teflon. He can get away with anything.
arguingwithsignposts
What I want to know is, whose sensitivities did they offend here? What 8 year old is watching MSNBC (cue Rush Limpdough jokes)?
RedKitten
Considering the title of this post, you may want to rephrase the “I have a hard time wrapping my head around…” bit.
MikeJ
I thought “blow job” *was* a euphemism for cock sucking.
Doctor Cleveland
This is a moment where the euphemism would obscure the reality.
It’s not that the word “blowjob” is terribly obscene. It’s that the word “blowjob” makes the case so plain that it’s impossible to spin.
“For a sexual indiscretion” creates some nice gray area. Sexual indiscretions can be very serious, or not. “Adultery” makes the whole thing Biblical, and thereby serious; surely if it’s a Commandment, it’s impeachable, right?
But when you call a blowjob a blowjob, the absurdity is revealed. And cable news is dedicated to the project of never, ever recognizing absurdity.
Molly
Hell. Can’t call this blog BJ any more. Might offend the Appropriatness Police.
Cat Lady
It’s always 1998 in The Village. ZOMG CLENIS!
JK
When will MSNBC apologize to its audience for dumbing them down to death by continuing to air Morning Joe and Hardball?
DougJ
I think that when you look at the reality of how impeachment went down, in terms of PR, there is no way to discuss it honestly without using fairly graphic terms.
Demo Woman
@MikeJ: Good Point! I was actually trying to figure out what euphemism Howie wanted? Clinton was investigated for five years for having a young female on her knees adoring his ci a l i s enlarged organ.
Candyce
I saw the exchange this morning. Not only was Buchanan’s comment offensive, but even moreseo was Mika laughing like a loon at the comment. Oh, Pat, you’re so cute, so funny.
What kind of country is this where saying blowjob requires an apology, but inciting murder is laughable?
jhh
So what does Rush’s euphemism “anal poisoning” signify? Evidently that term does not offend Mr Kurtz’s refined sensibilities.
During the Clinton impeachment trial, did Mr Kurtz cover his ears when Ken Starr’s graphically detailed account of the encounters between two consenting adults, Mr. Clinton and Ms Lewinsky, was read out on national TV?
I guess it’s OK if a Republican does it, huh?
Another addition to the growing number of reasons not to bother reading the Washington Post, even when it’s free.
What a comedown from the Watergate era.
Malron
What’s a good euphemism for blow job? Getting his dick sucked?
MBSS
howie calls it “playing kissie pants.”
anyone who can say “i prefer howie,” with a straight face is ok in my book. (or an asshole)
General Winfield Stuck
@Malron:
Knob polished might have gotten thru the euphemism filter.
kommrade reproductive vigor
Yikes! A valid comment! Initiate Operation Swoon and Distract!
Edit: In the spirit of Mr. D. Savage I propose we call BJs The Kurtz.
dr. bloor
Oh, relax Howie, “enhanced interrogation techniques” is alive and well. What a sanctimonious little pris.
ericvsthem
“Blowjob” isn’t a euphism for anything. If something is being blown, you’re doing it wrong.
Laura W
@DougJ: Maybe it’s the cheap Pinot Grigio talking, but I don’t find “oral sex” or “fellatio” any less or more offensive or titillating than “blow job” or “giving head”. (Actually, that last one is my least favorite, but those are my issues.)
Why are we talking about this again?
I should probably go to bed now. I’m tired.
MikeJ
In honor of the french perversion (one of my favorite things on earth), I’m celebrating Bastille Day early. Chicken crepes with white wine tarragon sauce. I call them Frencheladas.
Llelldorin
Sorry, Mr. Kurtz, but all available euphemisms are currently busy keeping the word “torture” locked in the basement.
Brian J
It’s really not that hard to understand, when you take a step back and strip it down to the basics. They believed adultery and/or lying about it was ethically and legally wrong, but they don’t apparently feel the same way about torture. They accept its practice as a reluctant but necessary step in the fight aggainst terrorism, or more often they proudly cheer it on any time its used, no matter how brutal the tactics might be. Either way, they don’t see anything wrong with it, or at least not enough to do anything about it. And if no wrongdoing was committed, there’s no need for an investigation.
gnomedad
Enhanced gratification technique?
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
There, you did it again! This is like the stoning scene in Life of Brian. Every time somebody opens their mouth, it just makes the problem worse.
Everyone needs to remember that Howard Kurtz was once a little girl, also.
White House Department of Law (fmrly Jim-Bob)
Kurtz? Fuck that boner-nosed, beanie-wearing bastard…
bhagamu
I don’t get it. I thought blow job WAS a euphemism…
Jennifer
I think Lewis Black said it best when he said: “These people are the movers; they’re the ones keeping us safe from the terrorists; but the word ‘shit’ makes them cry.”
(pertinent portion starts about 1:15)
White House Department of Law (fmrly Jim-Bob)
Also. “Smoked” is an acceptable euphemism.
Ripley
A euphemism for Howie: Enhanced Titillation Techniques™.
here4tehbeer
Fine. From now on “BJ” and “Blow Job” shall be known as an “MJ” or a “Morning Joe”. Let’s see how that fits:
:
“Your idea is that after investigating Bill Clinton for an “MJ” for like five years, we shouldn’t investigate the huge, grossly illegal things that were done under the past administration, only because Alberto Gonzales was too much in the back pocket of Dick Cheney to do it while he was still in office.”
:
Or…
“That girl gave me one helluva hummer last night.”
“A what?”
“An MJ dude – a full-bore deep-throat Morning Joe!”
“Dude.”
“Duuuude.”
:
Seems fine to me.
Brachiator
Oh, all right. Bill Clinton was impeached for getting a Washington Post salon.
There. Kurtz should feel much better, now.
JK
Unfortunately, I think Marcy Wheeler can kiss goodbye any future invitations to appear on MSNBC, CNN, or Fox News Channel.
It’s sad that the MSM is such a bunch of pussies that the word “blowjob” makes them apoplectic. MSNBC has a hell of a lot more to apologize for than the utterance of the word “blowjob”.
Jennifer
I’ll pony up some cash to the first person who goes on Morning Joe and says, “so Clinton got his cock sucked, which is the aspiration of every man in America….”
I would also accept a reference to Clinton getting his “knob slobbered”.
Joshua Norton
My irony meter has just gone “Ooooooga, ooooooga!” and the needle spun around and flew right off.
All this pearl clutching from the Repiggie party and the media that made “blow job” an acceptable subject of conversation around dinner tables across the entire country during the Clinton years.
Jennifer
You broke them.
DemonDem
Well, we tried to be discreet for – I don’t know – 8 years, and all you did was brush our arguments aside…
So, in order to actually get our point across, Marcy Wheeler decided to cut the crap and frame the argument in such stark terms that almost anyone can see how ridiculous the GOP’s position is.
So which do you think is worse for our country Mr. Kurtz?
Cock sucking (or, if you prefer, head, BJ, Blow Job, bone-a-lipper, gum root, hummer, knob job, mouth fuck, open wide for a chunky, suck a dick, fellatio)
OR
Violating the constitutional rights of American citizens by spying on them without their knowledge, and
Holding both citizens and non-citizens in custody while denying their right to habeas corpus, while also:
Torturing individuals at the express consent of the government to the point that multiple individuals died of organ failure and/or choking on their own blood?
Now that I’ve lost my rhetorical cool, let me just say that the real reason the right wingers are so apoplectic about all of this is because even they have to recognize that an argument as blatantly stated as Ms. Wheeler’s completely annihilates any semblance of a valid argument on their part.
In other words, well said Ms. Wheeler. Please carry on.
Demo Woman
@Jennifer: Maybe if Bush had loosened up a tad he would not have left us with the mess that we are in. Bush got his ass screwed by Wall Street. I guess I’ll take Clinton’s approach.
I do think that Marcy’s tv appearances are limited from now on. So much for the rule of law.
White House Department of Law (fmrly Jim-Bob)
JK@
That sucks.
Down and Out of Sài Gòn
I’m not up on the punditocracy, so forgive me… but who the fuck was the Republican sparring with Ms. Wheeler? He’s one of those people that I immediately find repellent on sight. Obviously a bad hat… just like Burke out of Aliens.
Brian J
As someone who has major issues with foul and colorful language, I understand why this is frustrating. Anyone who is watching this show is almost certainly an adult, and if they are so sensitive that the mere utterance of a word causes them to panic, they need to find a hobby. That said, it’s a reminder of why this sort of language isn’t always appropriate–not because it’s offensive, but because it distracts from the issue at hand. Wheeler had a valid point, but instead of focusing on that, people are focusing on how she expressed her point. Stupid, yes, but unfortunately true.
JK
@Brachiator:
LOL. Kurtz should look himself in the mirror sometime and ask whatever happened to media criticism? Kurtz is the quintessential, see-no-evil, hear-no-evil, speak-no-evil, ring kissing coward and defender of the status quo.
Crusty Dem
Laura, does that mean Clinton’s offense was “taking head”. I, for one, only wish Marcy had gone further, repeating the point again and again, “I mean, 5 years studying the details of the president getting his knob gobbled, his weenie wanked, his cock sucked, his Wang deep throated and nothing for torture and murder?”
The rightards retort would probably include something about the cigar, too.. Just a reminder that the Starr report is really just a really long, boring, 3rd rate letter to Penthouse..
srv
Shit. Alberto Gonzalez got a job.
http://dallasmorningviewsblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2009/07/al-gonzales-and.html
Anne Laurie
Sounds like Mr. Kurtz is trying to trademark his “getting the full Howie” invention — not that he expects to make any money off the phrase, just that he wants his greatest talent immortalized.
Jennifer wins tonite’s intertronz!
Jennifer
@Brian J:
It doesn’t “distract from the issues at hand;” it is employed as an excuse for not focusing on the issues at hand. See the Lewis Black clip I posted above – he’s dead on. People who are passionately angry, frustrated, and outraged have a tendency to use strong language. People who would like to avoid discussion of the very sound basis for that anger, frustration and outrage point to “bad language” as though the product of the original offense is worse than the original offense. And only stupid or dishonest people accept such excuses as valid. It’s not actually a “distraction” at all; it’s an excuse for people to cling to the obviously wrong side of any given issue.
Comrade Michael "A 10-Letter Word" Brown
Well, all I can do here is echo my favorite magician and libertard, Penn Gillette, and his all-purpose response to this kind of mealy-mouthed pearl-clutching “not in front of the children!” bullshit:
zmullls
What pisses me off most is that Kurtz refuses to say Marcy Wheeler’s name.
…”the MSNBC guest” my ass….
Fulcanelli
I always thought “milkin’ the bull” was clever…
Laura W
@Crusty Dem:
Maybe “talking head”? I really don’t know, CD. I am just an ordinary girl, much like Monica, and I’m Burning Down the White House.
(Finally gets posted to youtube and it has a major skip. Sigh.)
mclaren
Even more blunt:
We need to impeach the president and put him on trial because he asked a girl to deep throat him, but we can’t even investigate when another president orders prisoners sodomized and tortured to death at Abu Ghraib?
Cock sucking by a girl is a high crime and requires impeachment; anal rape by military guards isn’t a crime and shouldn’t even be discussed.
Well, I think we can see the logic here. As everyone knows, GOP stands for “Gay Older Pedophile,” so it stands to reason that the Republicans would be comfortable with sodomy but horrified by fellatio.
BDeevDad
Love the responses to Kurtz on twitter.
He’s hearing all about enhanced stimulation techniques.
Comrade Kevin
@srv: There’s something wrong with that article, the job doesn’t involve breaking rocks or making license plates.
Anne Laurie
I will say, after watching some of the briefer clips of today’s “hearings”*, that Sotomayor looked like she was wondering if the status bump was really worth putting up with endless hours of blather, innuendo, and bad-faith non-questions.
(*maybe we should call them Speechings, because it didn’t seem like much listening was being done.)
Brian J
@Jennifer:
I feel like we are reaching the same conclusion.
General Winfield Stuck
@Demo Woman: Oh, I doubt it. After Shusters “pimping out chelsea” comment and Mathews drooling onto Erin Burnett, I don’t think they have room to complain.
bago
I’m pretty sure getting a full Howie would involve goats. Wait, nevermind, that just being slipped a Mickey.
mai naem
I wonder who Alberto Gonzales had to give a blow job to get a real job.
Howie Kurtz has been giving the GOP a blow job since he got married to a GOP consultant.
I had MSNBC on in the background and I heard Marcy say “blowjob” and I thought to myself “uh,oh.” Somehow I don’t think Marcy is going to be getting invites to MSNBC anymore.
Mike G
the same people who wanted to investigate Bill Clinton for an affair with an intern don’t want to investigate the Bush administration for torture and illegal surveillance.
Because they love violence and death, and hate sex. Probably because they are so neurotic and bad at the latter.
joe from Lowell
Euphemisms helped make the torture happen, Howie.
Fuck euphemisms.
BDeevDad
Also, Kurtz forgets his own papers standards:
JK
Has anyone noticed whether or not the Earth has stopped spinning on its axis since Marcy Wheeler said blowjob on tv?
Nellcote
@Anne Laurie:
I watched the hearing today and found myself thinking I could never be nominated for the SC as I couldn’t possibly keep from rolling my eyes at all the horseshit that the goopers were spewing.
About that BJ, I watched that segment and thought good for you when Wheeler spoke out. It didn’t occur to me that she said a no-no until they started apologyzing.
Calouste
Euphemisms still exist do they?
I mean, people are still calling Howard Kurtz a journalist and they are still calling the Washington Post a newspaper.
bayville
Howie must get the hives when Congress debates the Stimulus Package.
scarshapedstar
Yeah, what we really need is more bullshit doublespeak like “enhanced interrogation techniques”.
Howie, go make love to yourself, right in your stupid place-where-you-sit-down.
C Nelson Reilly
@JK:
Another barrier knocked down. I’m looking forward to the day when the rusty trombone and the Cajun hot stick are common euphemisms in political discourse.
Edit: I’m comment number 69 bitches!
xyzzy
DougJ, it all comes down to laws. Clinton was impeached for lying to a grand jury, whatever the political motivations. What laws, in fact, can we accuse Cheney of breaking?
Therein lies the rub. He’s done it, we know it. Can we fire up our representatives enough to go after him? Lying to a grand jury is pretty obviously convictable, since it got the standing president. How about lying to congress? It’s a sort of test, is it not?
Martin
I always liked The Ladies Man skit covering the impeachment hearings referring to it as ‘having your wang mouthified’.
DougJ
Bullshit. In fact there’s no way of discussing impeachment of any sort with the qualifier “whatever the political motivations” that isn’t bullshit.
Impeachment is a political act, not a legal one.
4jkb4ia
That is the emptywheel we know and love! It was worth it even if she is never asked back.
Ejoiner
It reminds of a certain scene from “Apocalypse Now” –
something about bombing children in villages but getting in trouble for writing f u c k on the bombs? Been a while since I’ve seen the movie.
Batocchio
Man, I thought “blow job” was a euphemism.
Kurtz also was scandalized by a college professor criticizing Bush – this was some time in 2008, mind you – apparently because he thought she was abusing her position somehow.
Marcy is one of the very best on the torture/human rights/civil rights beat. I’m sorry she’s getting any crap over this.
Remember, to the Beltway gang, torturing someone is just fine – but calling torture torture, or speaking about holding torturers to account, is terribly divisive and rude.
jhaygood
The thing I love is that the BJ clip can’t be played without also hearing “the huge, grossly illegal things that were done under the past administration” part. (Well, Hannity could do it, but it would sound REALLY weird.)
I know all those toads would love to play this and tsk tsk about it, but they can’t really go there without a lot of can-of-worms opening.
sfinny
Must admit that the most effective retort would have been according to Gnomedad (#25):
Enhanced gratification technique
Perfect rejoinder, but for me it usually thought of two hours too late.
ChrisB
Also, give David Shuster credit for calling that Republican nitwit on his bullshit.
Meanwhile, last week on MSNBC’s sister network, CNBC, the crew on Fast Money was laughing about how one of their members loved Hummers. Melissa Lee was quite deft with her application of the double entendre. Nobody seemed to mind and it was actually pretty funny if you were paying attention.
4jkb4ia
I realize in mounting horror that smug TV types and right-wingers now have every excuse to ignore her because of the stereotype of “foul-mouthed blogger”.
Wile E. Quixote
@JK
Hey, if you’d had to suck as many dicks as Howard Kurtz has to keep his job you’d be offended too. You wouldn’t believe the miles of dick that Howard had to suck to get his column called “Media Notes” and not “Cock-craving, cum-dumpster”.
arguingwithsignposts
F**k them all. If the term “blow job” is so terminal, they deserve to be laid off with terminal prejudice. MSNBC, FOX and CNN all deserve to live in the sordid ghetto they inhabit. And, btw, f**k Howie Kurtz also. Clutching pearls about BJs?!?! Seriously, WTF?
QrazyQat
Anything to obscure what it was we spent 70 millions dollars investigating; they really don’t want people remembering, do they?
Andrew
Part of me thinks Marcy Wheeler could have phrased her point better on live TV, but then I remember that my Dad’s been making the same exact argument to me ever since I was a teen and I’ve always thanked him for it.
JGabriel
Howie Kurtz:
Someone should tweet back:
.
JGabriel
xyzzy:
How about starting with the Geneva Conventions? After all, according to the Constitution, treaties are the law of the land.
.
Singularity
Someone held their head under water until they stopped thrashing.
MelodyMaker
I saw “frenchiladas” here earlier. It was a comment about dinner tonight but that’s a euphemism I can believe in.
asiangrrlMN
Snort. You guys are teh funny! She coulda said BJ, and thus given this blog some exposure. John deserves the gratification for all the hard work he’s done–and the rest of the front BJers.
I am glad that someone finally said the damn word out loud. It’s appalling how the Villagers can get our panties in a bunch about this and Janet Jackson’s enhanced nipple exposure, but they just yawn and titter over things like, oh, I don’t know, torture.
Fuck them.
Aaron
Howard Kurtz,
To quote from “Howard Kurtz’s Reliable Sources,”
All the best!
Aaron
Jason
Well. No wonder I can’t get rid of all these rusty trombones.
Waynski
Not sure you want to be using a phrase like “wrap my head around” when the subject is blow jobs.
mclaren
Surely you jest.
Multiple serial violation of the first amendment of the constitution, fourth amendment, fifth amendment, sixth amendment, eighth amendment, ninth amendment, tenth amendment. Violation of his oath of office. Treason against the United States of America (Valerie Plame’s outing). Sedition, conspiracy to commit murder with special circumstances (torture), conspiracy to commit rape with special circumstances (torture), perjury, obstruction of justice, manslaughter, felony murder, child endangerment, conspiracy to commit assault and battery, depriving prisoners of their civil rights (fourteenth amendment). Bribery, self-dealing, release of classified information.
For starters.
If Dick Cheney ever got put on trial, it would be like the scenes in The Good, the Bad and the Ugly where they read the list of charges out for which they’re going to hang Tuco — and every time, the charges get more heinous and more unbelievable. The crimes just go on and on and…”setting fire to a prison…derailing a train in order to rob the passengers…hiring himself as a guide to a wagon train and abandoning them in the hunting grounds of the Sioux Indians…” Every time you think the list of crimes is finished, no — it gets worse.
Before they finished reading out the seemingly endless list of atrocities with which Cheney would have to be charged, even the most impartial judge would give up and shout, “The hell with it, just hang the bastard!”
b-psycho
Wouldn’t “suck job” be more accurate? Or “lick job”? You’re not blowing on it like it’s hot soup or something…
gex
Republicans are such candy-asses. I’m sorry, but why is everyone atwitter over a plain language description of what actually happened. Everyone knows what any euphemism will mean, and nothing is avoided except a specific sequence of letters. The concept is the same.
Meanwhile they laugh their asses off over the on air suggestion that the party have a teenager killed for the benefit of their rising star. That is hi-lar-i-ous!
paul
I don’t bother with MSM anymore, including the MSNBC. Thankfully Marcy said blow job when it was the best word to describe how the right wasted so much time, energy and money on a … blow job. But Bush, Cheney, torture, their real marriages vs their stances on anyone else they want to prevent marriages being given to … either silence or stonewalling. Thank you Marcy for saying blow job when it was the best word to make the point.
Dayv
In response to Ms. Wheeler’s point, nobody likes their kink getting investigated. Some of us like blowjobs while others need a little nonconsensual torture to get their party started.