Maybe They Are Preoccupied With the Two Wars, the Flatlining Economy, the Exploding Deficit, and All the Other Presents the Last Administration Left?

I remember all this “he was tardy crap” during the Clinton era, too:

White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs delayed the start of his daily briefing Thursday — which is only remarkable for the fact it’s so unremarkable.

The Bush White House briefings were only rarely delayed. Journalists covering the White House have now grown accustomed to waiting in the briefing room…at least so far.

Consider the numbers: Gibbs was a total of 13 hours and 46 minutes late to his own press briefings in the month of May alone.

Of the 19 briefings held by Gibbs in May, the White House officially pushed the scheduled start time back 14 times (although: one time they actually made it earlier.) That averages out to a delay of roughly 28 minutes a day — a total of 8 hours and 50 minutes for the month.

You know why the members of the Bush administration were always on time and never tardy? Because when the White House answer to everything is tax cuts, bombing runs, and claiming executive privilege, you don’t need to spend a lot of time thinking about shit.






142 replies
  1. 1
    meh says:

    Meh, journalists work on deadlines and Gibbs generally mucks those up for them but whatever…journalism in America is dead…Thank God for the BBC and Sky News.

  2. 2
    Death By Mosquito Truck says:

    It seems a little unfair to compare the Obama administration to the sure-footed Bush administration.

  3. 3
    Ash says:

    Who the hell cares? It’s not like those fucking “journalists” are doing anything valuable with their time. It just gives them a few more minutes to circle jerk and then twitter about it.

    BLURGH.

  4. 4
    Keith says:

    Cue the calls for Gibbs to be fired, have his lawn salted, and credit rating reset.

  5. 5
    feebog says:

    Wow; 28 minutes a day. Thats about the amount of time it takes to get a latte at Starbucks. BFD.

  6. 6
    demimondian says:

    That’s just not fair, John. The reporters from the White House press corps are trying to find ways to make it clear to the American people just what a crowd of secretive do-nothings we currently have in power. Beside, delaying a press briefing? It’s just like forcing someone to cancel an opposition rally. They know exactly what it feels like to protest in Iran right now!

  7. 7
    gbear says:

    You know why the members of the Bush administration were always on time and never tardy?

    And because they didn’t want to give the press a chance to sit and reflect on anything before the latest load-o-crap was delivered.

    Not that the press would have come up with any new questions anyway. The closest they came to rumination was that they were cattle.

  8. 8
    Gravenstone says:

    I can haz reel media, plz?

  9. 9
    demimondian says:

    @gbear:

    The closest they came to rumination was that they were cattle.

    FTW

  10. 10
    Radon Chong says:

    I heard a rumor that Obama isn’t even giving out snappy nicknames! And his home in Chicago? Absolutely overrun with uncleared brush. It wasn’t like this under Bush.

  11. 11
    Napoleon says:

    It’s nice to see the press still thinks its all about them.

  12. 12
    Comrade Stuck says:

    Of the 19 briefings held by Gibbs in May, the White House officially pushed the scheduled start time back 14 times

    To me that doesn’t qualify for being late. Being late would be being late for the official scheduled start, whenever that is after official changes. I guess the prissy press thinks the country is run on their schedule.

    But what do I know.

  13. 13
    JR says:

    Yeah, one might expect that a person whose job is to answer questions might want to take the time to get correct, reliable answers before beginning.

    Cf. Ari Fleischer, Scott McClellan, Dana Perino, Tony Snow, Tony Fratto, et al.

  14. 14
    The Saff says:

    My head is about to explode today from all teh stupid.

  15. 15
    Brachiator says:

    The Bush White House briefings butt-kissing sessions were only rarely delayed. Journalists used to passively passing along Bush/Cheney disinformation covering the White House have now grown accustomed to waiting in the briefing room…at least so far.

    Fixed.

    And what, exactly, are these journalists going to do if the briefings continue to be delayed? Hmm. Let’s imagine.

    White House Correspondent: Sir, I realize that you recently lost your house, lost your job, and lost your health insurance coverage. But what do you think about the fact that I had to wait thirty whole minutes before a White House briefing finally got started?

    Man in the Street: Can I borrow your microphone and punch you in the neck with it?

  16. 16

    I think you meant “flatlining” economy.

  17. 17
  18. 18
    Aaron says:

    As I hear more and more braying from the right, it strikes me how artificial their intellectual stances and policies are. From Dijongate to teleprompter issues to whatever other inane bullshit becomes the talking point of the day, it is like the current crop of Republicans are allergic to substantive or meaningful debate. All they have is ad hominem attacks, name calling, petty sniping, tone-deaf ideas, or budgets-without-numbers

    It is like they have completely removed the real world and people from there minds, and they are just in a political simulation where the only goal is to win elections.

  19. 19
    Krista says:

    White House Correspondent: Sir, I realize that you recently lost your house, lost your job, and lost your health insurance coverage. But what do you think about the fact that I had to wait thirty whole minutes before a White House briefing finally got started?

    Man in the Street: Can I borrow your microphone and punch you in the neck with it?

    Yep — I know Washington is very insular, but this just takes that narcissism to whole new heights. These assclowns think that it’s all about them, and they haven’t even done anything to warrant such self-regard.

  20. 20
    SpotWeld says:

    Keep in mind the Bush White House was very much “message is the method”. They were the ones who thought they could create thier own reality just by having enough people believe it was true.

    Therefore it was a higher priorty to tell the press what was happening then it was actually acomplishing that reality though direct action.

  21. 21

    To me, this whole thing looks like a Britney Spears phenomenon.

    Obama is a celebrity. So everything about him and the things and people around him are grist for the most banal and absurd forms of attention we can imagine.

    The people who go in for this nonsense are the same ones who will try to criticize Obama for being a celebrity.

    This circular horseshit isn’t unique to the Obama celebrity, it’s just part of the celebrity mechanism. I don’t think there is any cure for it.

    Gibbs is part of the entourage, the celebrity insider group. He is getting the treatment under the Obamalebrity umbrella.

    Do we haz healthcare yet? That’s all I care about.

  22. 22
    JK says:

    The White House Press Corps are a bunch of whining, fucking douchebags whenever a Democrat is in the White House.

    This bullshit story reminds me of another bullshit story

    CBS Reporter: Obama’s Plane ‘Smells Terrible’
    http://gawker.com/5060901/cbs-.....s-terrible

  23. 23
    GregB says:

    It should be noted that all of those waterboard and walling sessions and naked pyramids and glow-stick sodomy stunts started promptly on time.

    These Obamaites have no morals, late comers and all.

    -G

  24. 24
    ninerdave says:

    It’s just like forcing someone to cancel an opposition rally. They know exactly what it feels like to protest in Iran right now!

    Win.

  25. 25
    The Saff says:

    Sorta OT but in keeping with the media thing, just saw this on DailyKos.

    More dirt keeps piling up on John Ensign. This time, Fox News is involved.

    BTW, I didn’t know Senator Ensign was a veterinarian.

  26. 26

    @Krista: Exhibit A:

    “[Clinton] came in here and he trashed the place,” says Washington Post columnist David Broder, “and it’s not his place.”

  27. 27
    Brick Oven Bill says:

    The biggest issue facing this Administration is the dollar, not wars or economic models. This is a very interesting article predicting very bad times ahead for America. It is thought-provoking, but the conclusions are wrong.

    There are three reasons why the conclusions are wrong:

    1. America is food independent and energy independent, meaning that we have the resources to support our population as a stand-alone nation.
    2. The legacy of the Founders and their ideas is powerful.
    3. The 2nd Amendment will prevent the concentration of power as is predicted in the article.

    Gibbs is late because he is disorganized, sloppy, and arrogant, not because he is busy. You can tell this by the frequency which he says ‘uhhhh’ and his attitude.

  28. 28
    R-Jud says:

    @Aaron:

    As I hear more and more braying from the right, it strikes me how artificial their intellectual stances and policies are.

    Er, no offense meant, but…. you just noticed this?

  29. 29
    Little Dreamer says:

    Gee, I thought it was because they already had rehearsed the damned thing, planted the questions on certain reporters and knew exactly what the answers to the questions would entail beforehand.

    No? How about that Gannon guy?

  30. 30
    Scruffy McSnufflepuss says:

    Impeachment, ho!

  31. 31

    The cost of daily living, from buying food to getting medical care, will become difficult for all but a few as the dollar plunges. States and cities will see their pension funds drained and finally shut down. The government will be forced to sell off infrastructure, including roads and transport, to private corporations. We will be increasingly charged by privatized utilities—think Enron—for what was once regulated and subsidized. Commercial and private real estate will be worth less than half its current value. The negative equity that already plagues 25 percent of American homes will expand to include nearly all property owners. It will be difficult to borrow and impossible to sell real estate unless we accept massive losses. There will be block after block of empty stores and boarded-up houses. Foreclosures will be epidemic. There will be long lines at soup kitchens and many, many homeless. Our corporate-controlled media, already banal and trivial, will work overtime to anesthetize us with useless gossip, spectacles, sex, gratuitous violence, fear and tawdry junk politics. America will be composed of a large dispossessed underclass and a tiny empowered oligarchy that will run a ruthless and brutal system of neo-feudalism from secure compounds. Those who resist will be silenced, many by force. We will pay a terrible price, and we will pay this price soon, for the gross malfeasance of our power elite.

    Shorter BOB: Don’t worry, I will still be here posting my racist birther shit and pimping bars out in the middle of nowhere.

  32. 32
    Mnemosyne says:

    You’d think that the extra time would give journalists a chance to come up with some decent questions, but apparently not.

  33. 33
    binzinerator says:

    @Aaron:

    It is like they have completely removed the real world and people from there minds, and they are just in a political simulation where the only goal is to win elections.

    You just noticed this? Dude, where have you been?

    And what do you mean, ‘like’? There isn’t any like about it — they have removed the real world from their minds, and winning elections is in fact their only goal, and it’s been that way for years.

  34. 34
    TenguPhule says:

    We have heard more from the MSM about Obama’s press sec being late then about Health Insurance Executives telling Congress that they won’t stop cheating Americans out of coverage after years of paying premiums.

    When the revolution comes, the media elite are going up against that wall.

  35. 35
    Little Dreamer says:

    @Aaron:

    Hi Aaron. Apparently you’re new to this concept that reality doesn’t matter. Sit down, watch, be amazed with the rest of us.

    It seems there are still people out there who are learning this, and it’s good to see that they are coming forward and admitting they didn’t have a clue this was so. It’s okay, we’d rather you wake up a bit late than not at all. Tell your friends who probably also don’t spend the amount of time watching this circus that many of us here do.

    Yes, it is exactly as you described (although I have to agree with binzinerator above, the word LIKE really is a misnomer, there is nothing LIKE what they are doing, just exactly what it is – pure unabashed power grabbing, corporate shilling, earth killing, non-empathetic, money grubbing hubris.

  36. 36
    Brachiator says:

    @Brick Oven Bill:

    The biggest issue facing this Administration is the dollar, not wars or economic models.

    Can I get some of your drugs? I mean, just a small amount, ’cause that shit must be hella powerful.

  37. 37
    TenguPhule says:

    America is food independent and energy independent, meaning that we have the resources to support our population as a stand-alone nation.

    No it’s not.

    Nor is it materials independent.

    We’re an importer nation for a reason.

  38. 38
    Little Dreamer says:

    @TenguPhule:

    face forward or ass first?

  39. 39
    scarshapedstar says:

    Because when the White House answer to everything is tax cuts, bombing runs, and claiming executive privilege, you don’t need to spend a lot of time thinking about shit.

    You forgot the Big Three:

    1) “That’s going to be the subject of an investigation. No comment.”

    2) “There’s an ongoing investigation. No comment.”

    3) “We feel the results of the investigation speak for themselves. No comment.”

  40. 40
    Aaron says:

    @binzinerator:

    To Biz and Jud . . . fair points. :-)

    It isn’t that I just noticed this, it is that before they had powerful leaders (with terrible ideas) that they could hang their hat on. They have given up even a pretense of being a party of ideas and instead gone with the 6th grader approach – and I mean no disrespect to 6th graders.

    Well, winning elections may not be the only goal – there is also the subsequent dismantling of the governing apparatus and a wealth of no-bid contracts. So maybe there is a three step program for the Republicans.

    1. ????
    2. Win Elections
    3. Profit!

  41. 41
    Little Dreamer says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Well, it is if only rightwingers eat and use those resources. ;)

  42. 42
    TenguPhule says:

    face forward or ass first?

    How could we tell them apart?

    They spew shit from both ends.

  43. 43
    Little Dreamer says:

    @Aaron:

    1. Lie your ass off

  44. 44
    Aaron says:

    @Little Dreamer:

    Dreamer, I am certainly from the “reality-based community,” but I can’t help but think that somewhere, perhaps deep in the Republican party, there are logical people trying to get something done.

    I mean, they can’t ALL be crazy, can they?

    /wideeyedoptimist

  45. 45
    Little Dreamer says:

    @TenguPhule:

    I want to know if they get to see the bullet coming at them or do they just anticipate it?

  46. 46
    Roger Moore says:

    @Brick Oven Bill:

    1. America is food independent and energy independent

    We may be food independent, but we are in no way, shape, or form energy independent. The country would quite literally grind to a halt without imported oil. We might be able to make ourselves energy independent with a lot of work and restructuring our economy, but we’re not even close to it today.

  47. 47
    Little Dreamer says:

    @Roger Moore:

    Roger, haven’t you been keeping up with BOB’s OIL SHALE lessons? We have ALL the oil we need, pay no attention to the fact that it’s a difficult and expensive process extracting it.

  48. 48
    Little Dreamer says:

    @Aaron:

    You show me a rightwinger who isn’t glued to Fox News at night and doesn’t have his car radio tuned to AM hate noise and I’ll show you the lonely optimist.

    I don’t think they exist. I think they were Repubs in the fabric of John Cole and they left the party after Bush’s failures. They voted for Obama.

  49. 49

    @Roger Moore:

    Nah. Wind turbines will solve the problem.

    Bob, you’re on …..

  50. 50
    Fulcanelli says:

    The long overdue mass “Network” moment will soon be upon us, I hope…

    There are a precious few exceptions of course, but it’s as though as soon as a news media outlet grows to the point that it’s influential and more importantly, profitable, it becomes another distribution point for right-leaning bs and propaganda. It becomes assimilated into the wingularity hivemind.

    There’s an entire sub-class of professional people in this country that needs a righteous ass-kicking… and the WH press corps is the place to start.

  51. 51
    Little Dreamer says:

    @Fulcanelli:

    Sorry Fulcanelli, opening your window and yelling “I’m mad as hell and I’m not gonna take it anymore” is now a violation known as disturbing the peace.

    The cops would be called to intervene. Nobody wants to mess with cops.

  52. 52
    Fulcanelli says:

    @Little Dreamer: We force them to pull the trigger on each other one by one to save themselves. Like a SAW movie…

  53. 53
    Brick Oven Bill says:

    Chris Hedges’ article argues that with the collapse of the dollar, that real estate owners will be upside down. I do not understand his reasoning since a collapsing dollar would mean hyper-inflation, making the ‘dollar value’ of real estate go up. The ones at risk are the banks who will be paid back with inflated dollars on fixed mortgages, not the land-owners.

    Franklin argued that there is intrinsic value in land, labor, and metals. He lived before the age of fossil fuels, so he did not include this intrinsic value in his analysis. But the value of our land, labor, metals, and fuel (400 years of old shale, extractable at $17/bbl with the EPA’s blessing) will stay constant in real terms, even if the dollar goes away and is replaced with something else. America has a low population density and plenty of all of these things that constitute intrinsic value, to which I would also include the spirit of independence.

    Russia is also a power-house due to its energy resources and agricultural land. Russia will seize the Middle Eastern energy sources if we are forced to vacate. China is the place that is in trouble. Europe will become completely dependent on Russia for energy if they are not willing to go to war over it.

    Gibbs remains a dufus.

  54. 54
    truculentandunreliable says:

    @Roger Moore: Heh. I LOLed at this point.

    And we aren’t even food independent, mostly because we aren’t energy independent.

    I don’t think people realize how dependent big ag is on fossil fuels. If we were cut off from oil supplies tomorrow, we would be royally f***ed in terms of food supply. Not simply because we rely on fossil fuels to transport food from places that grow it to places that don’t, but also because we rely on fossil fuels for growing and harvesting that food in the first place. How will most farms grow their crops without synthetic fertilizer? How will we harvest our corn and soybeans without fuel for our combines? Under the current system, millions of Americans would starve.

    As for the original topic, the White House press corps is full of WATB who need to take less time whining and more time actually doing their jobs.

  55. 55

    @Brick Oven Bill:

    Gibbs remains a dufus (sic).

    Gibbs then attended North Carolina State University, where he majored in political science. From 1990 through 1992, Gibbs was goalkeeper for the North Carolina State Wolfpack soccer team.[9] Gibbs graduated from North Carolina State cum laude with a degree in political science.[3]

    Bob takes a shot and …….. BLOCKED!

  56. 56
    amocz says:

    @The Saff:

    The Saff: Your link to DailyKos is busted (needs a colon); fixed here.

  57. 57
    truculentandunreliable says:

    @Brick Oven Bill: Nope. Cost-efficient extraction is years off and is probably going to have to be heavily subsidized by the federal government. I’d rather they subsidize clean technologies that don’t require strip-mining and pollute, myself.

  58. 58
    Rick Taylor says:

    Gibbs should serve the press espresso drinks and cookies while they wait; that might mollify them.

  59. 59
    Zifnab says:

    @PeopleAreNoDamnGood: Unpossible. Gibbs is a dofus because BoB said so. And BoB said so because Rush said so. And Rush is the smartest man in America. Nothing can change his dofusness now.

    Seriously, BoB, just stick to your AM frequency talk shows. You won’t have to worry about the big scary liberal fascists when you’re cuddled up with a bottle of oxycotin, a warm radio, and the working girl you’re cheating on your wife with.

  60. 60
    TenguPhule says:

    I do not understand his reasoning since a collapsing dollar would mean hyper-inflation, making the ‘dollar value’ of real estate go up

    And that’s because you don’t understand simple concepts in Economics or Causality, BOB. But we knew that already.

  61. 61
    TenguPhule says:

    Russia will seize the Middle Eastern energy sources if we are forced to vacate.

    With what army? Using what route?

    BOB, you may believe every other national leader is as insane as you, but this does not make it so.

  62. 62
    Brick Oven Bill says:

    Volkov is producing shale oil dirty for $14-17/bbl. It can be produced clean for $30. Necessity is the mother of getting rid of stupid rules, bureaucrats, and lobbying groups.

    The reason Russia took out the Republic of Georgia was to clear NATO out of the path due south TenguPhule. The Republic of Georgia had a functional army. Iran kept its F-14s in the air for multiple hours after Western technical assistance was cut off. Then that was that.

    Gibbs was a male soccer player in college. Check.

  63. 63
    geg6 says:

    Gibbs should just install a tire swing in the press briefing room and serve them some tasty BBQ. Maybe then they’ll shut the fuck up. Gawd, the WH press corps are the world’s biggest narcisists and prima donnas. Sure wish some crazy white supremacist would take a notion to go after them instead of harmless museum security guards. That, at least, would do some good in the world.

  64. 64
    TenguPhule says:

    Volkov is producing shale oil dirty for $14-17/bbl. It can be produced clean for $30. Necessity is the mother of getting rid of stupid rules, bureaucrats, and lobbying groups.

    Now give us a link that isn’t to the interested parties and is to independent scientific panels that conclusively prove that shale can be extracted and processed with acceptable economic and environmental costs. I’m sure you will hold up shale processing to the same degree of professional testing you demand from the birth certificate, BOB.

    Also, would these “stupid” rules involve bans on strip mining, stream dumping of waste and other pollutants and excessive water use?

    The Republic of Georgia had a functional army

    I’m sorry, are you referring to the Russian armed and trained army that was a joke compared to the real thing?

  65. 65
    different church-lady says:

    But the REALLY important question is: were they all wearing suit jackets in the Oval Office?

  66. 66
    different church-lady says:

    PS: you gotta admire Brick Oven Bill — not everyone has the nerve to deliberately endeavor to have his own ass handed to him day in and day out.

  67. 67
    TenguPhule says:

    . Sure wish some crazy white supremacist would take a notion to go after them instead of harmless museum security guards. That, at least, would do some good in the world.

    Insufficient Irony Quota.

    Having them be beaten senseless with their own tape recorders by a terminal case dropped by their own insurance after paying premiums is much more karmic.

    Similiarly, Jim Cramer getting shot by a bankrupt retiree is a headline I keep expecting any day now.

  68. 68
    Hunter Gathers says:

    Gibbs was a male soccer player in college. Check.

    What the hell does that have to do with anything? Or is soccer un-amurican?

  69. 69
    demimondian says:

    @Little Dreamer:

    Sorry Fulcanelli, opening your window and yelling “I’m mad as hell and I’m not gonna take it anymore” is now a violation known as disturbing the peace.

    Perhaps we should stick to standing on the roof and yelling “Allahu Akbar!” instead?

  70. 70
    Leelee for Obama says:

    Perhaps we should stick to standing on the roof and yelling “Allahu Akbar!” instead?

    This is full of win!

    On the rest of this post, I’ll take tardy over clueless or full of shit any day!

  71. 71
    bartkid says:

    By this same time in the Bush presidency, how many weeks of vacation had he already clocked in?

  72. 72
    Brick Oven Bill says:

    I will explain the mechanics to you in a scientific, non-political manner TenguPhule. Oil shale is a rock that contains kerogen, which is a large hydrocarbon molecule that has yet to be broken down by geothermal processes into oil (medium-sized hydrocarbon molecules) or natural gas (small hydrocarbon molecules).

    Heat is the mechanism which breaks the molecules down in size. When the rock matrix is heated, it expands and fractures, creating a pathway for the new liquid fuel to travel to a collection point. Volkov does this with something similar to a cement kiln, see the link. This leaves residual spent shale, which is a current EPA no-no. In the pinch that we will find ourselves in, the spent shale could be placed in impermeable landfills.

    Collection systems can also be constructed in the earth, to gather the fuel without excavation, at a slightly higher cost, but still less than many traditional oil wells that are currently producing. Over and out the door.

  73. 73
    Little Dreamer says:

    @bartkid:

    About six weeks, I think.

  74. 74
    truculentandunreliable says:

    @Brick Oven Bill: That’s nice, but doesn’t answer my argument. We don’t have the technology to use oil shale right now and it’s at least five years off, even provided adequate money for research, which will most likely have to be provided by the government. Why the hell would we want to fund research for a dirty, polluting, FINITE source of energy when that money could go toward renewable energy?

    As far as Gibbs being a “male” (what else would he be?) college soccer player, I don’t see what your point is. Soccer is the most popular sport on the planet. And I’d be more than willing to bet that 99% of soccer players are tougher and in better physical condition that any flabby-assed American baseball player.

  75. 75
    TenguPhule says:

    . In the pinch that we will find ourselves in, the spent shale could be placed in impermeable landfills.

    So in other words, stripmining and big toxic landfills.

    For low quality oil. That requires high levels of energy and water to extract.

    This is the kind of solution that makes the Pie Higher.

  76. 76
    Leelee for Obama says:

    @truculentandunreliable: Soccer is so European, don’tcha know?

    I laugh at people who think soccer is a sissy sport. They obviously never played or knew someone who did. It’s a blood sport-kind of like lacrosse or hockey w/o the sticks.

  77. 77
    demimondian says:

    @TenguPhule: Ironically, if the US really wanted to be energy independent, we could be.

    But, for some odd reason, we seem to be resistant to building a couple of hundred 100% consumption multicycle breeder reactors.

  78. 78
    truculentandunreliable says:

    @Leelee for Obama: Yeah, obviously nobody remembers that little Zidane headbutting incident at the World Cup a couple of years ago or thinks that’s some sort of fluke.

    Damn, anybody that’s followed Brian McBride’s career should know you have to be a tough mofo to get by.

  79. 79
    truculentandunreliable says:

    @Leelee for Obama: Yeah, obviously nobody remembers that little Zidane headbutting incident at the World Cup a couple of years ago or thinks that it was some sort of fluke.

    Damn, anybody that’s followed Brian McBride’s career should know you have to be a tough mofo to get by.

  80. 80
    gbear says:

    I’m so bored with the B.O.B.

  81. 81
    TenguPhule says:

    But, for some odd reason, we seem to be resistant to building a couple of hundred 100% consumption multicycle breeder reactors.

    Why yes, we seem to have an aversion to glowing in the dark.

    Also, Uranium imports.

  82. 82
    Maus says:

    Volkov is producing shale oil dirty for $14-17/bbl. It can be produced clean for $30. Necessity is the mother of getting rid of stupid rules, bureaucrats, and lobbying groups.

    If that was true, and it was viable in this country, we would already have it in production. The lobbying groups steamroll congress for far less utility.

  83. 83
    El Cid says:

    You know, if we could just hire the Japanese or French governments to build and run our nuclear plants, I’d object less.

    As it is, it’s more like an open contract to spend infinity dollars to any private nuclear plant contractor for a plant which will take a billion years to open, and then which will require extensive infinity dollar repairs immediately.

  84. 84
    R-Jud says:

    I laugh at people who think soccer is a sissy sport.

    This. Pre-baby I was running upwards of 70 miles a week and swimming 10-15, and no way would I have the endurance to play soccer. All that sprinting! And with a ball hurtling through the mess? Forget it.

  85. 85
    truculentandunreliable says:

    Whoops. Double-post.

    I think we all just need to sit on our asses and wait for fusion to become a reality. Surely we won’t run out of fossil fuels before then!

  86. 86
    Little Dreamer says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Also what do we do with all the spent fuel after we’ve used it up? 100 reactors, that’s a lot of radiation poisoning.

    I’m so glad Demi sees nothing wrong with polluting our earth even more than it already is.

    Oh, I know, the proponents of this idea will want to build Yucca II in the Allegheny mountains, and Yucca III in the Rockies and Yucca IV in the Appalachians…

    Geesh!

  87. 87
    Roger Moore says:

    @truculentandunreliable:

    I think we all just need to sit on our asses and wait for fusion to become a reality.

    Fusion is a reality. We have a very convenient fusion reactor located just 93 million miles from here that can provide far more energy then we currently use. We just need to work on better ways of taking advantage of it.

  88. 88
    Zifnab says:

    @truculentandunreliable:

    Why the hell would we want to fund research for a dirty, polluting, FINITE source of energy when that money could go toward renewable energy?

    Because it will piss off the liberals?

    Seriously, because money money money. There’s a fortune to be made in building the infrastructure necessary to extract, refine, transport, and sell crude. It’s a cash cow that’s been successfully milked for generations. Setting up a wind farm just doesn’t bring home the bacon like digging for black gold.

    The joke with coal and oil is that, at the end of the day (or the 30 year horizon, whichever you prefer), it is all very fucking expensive. Billions on research, billions on exploration, billions on extraction, billions on refining, billions on transport, billions on sale – and the oil companies have positioned themselves as middle-men at every step of the process.

    Photovoltaic cells and wind turbines generate electricity from sun and wind, then transmit along public utility lines. There’s just not enough money in that business.

  89. 89
    Zifnab says:

    @R-Jud: And yet no one ever scores and fucking points!

  90. 90
    Little Dreamer says:

    @Maus:

    Well, NO, you see, because Dick Cheney, that’s why.

    The fact is even if it did work, it’s not efficient enough to produce all the energy we need and it’s still very expensive to extract and the technology is not advanced enough to make it a viable product.

    BOB is daydreaming again.

  91. 91
    TenguPhule says:

    Also what do we do with all the spent fuel after we’ve used it up? 100 reactors, that’s a lot of radiation poisoning.

    Nuclear weapons grade plutonium.

    A feature, not a bug.

  92. 92
    Leelee for Obama says:

    @El Cid: At the same time as we hire Japan or France for nuclear power production, could we hire the Dutch to build levees? It seem we can’t get these things right. What is the problem? Wouldn’t that be the free-market at work? Whatever could we sell them? Gee, maybe we could grow stuff-wheat or corn or marijuana…and don’t we make the bestest micro-chips?

    Just askin’

  93. 93

    […] 2009, 1:42 pm Filed under: republicans We sorted of screwed everything up but at least we were on time when we were lying/evading/misleading … Leave a Comment No Comments Yet so far Leave a […]

  94. 94
    Blue Raven says:

    @Little Dreamer:

    BOB is daydreaming again.

    To the point my brain has developed its own pie filter for him. Hand to the gods, I’m reading his posts in this thread and my brain has been throwing up an earworm in self-defense. To wit, “Cheer up, sleepy Jean, oh, what can it mean to a daydream believer and a homecoming queen…”

  95. 95
    demimondian says:

    @TenguPhule: Well, actually, no — there’s next to no plutonium left over. That’s kind of the point of 100% consumption.

    Little dreamer, do you have any idea how large a high-fuel density reactor is? The ones we use here in the States use very mildly enriched uranium, and, yes, they’re huge. That makes sense — not only is there damned little U235 in the world, making highly enriched uranium based fuel *is* making material for a bomb.

    The economics and risk profile of bred nuclear fuel are quite different. First, instead of enriching uranium and throwing out the vast majority, breeders taking otherwise useless U238 and mix it with a witch’s brew of reactor byproducts to make a fuel which contains a far greater proportion of fissile material. As a result, reactors which run on it are far, far smaller, and, as a direct result, produce far less waste.

    But don’t let the facts get in your way. It’s better to be pure and exterminate humanity than it is to deal with dirty, nasty things like *facts*.

  96. 96
    robertdsc says:

    That makes sense—not only is there damned little U235 in the world, making highly enriched uranium based fuel is making material for a bomb.

    How about converting our existing nuke weapons to civilian fuel?

  97. 97
    Little Dreamer says:

    @demimondian:

    Well, I’m sorry Demi, I’m not going to take YOUR WORD as facts. Why don’t you back it up with proof? Something tells me that you’re being underpaid if you’re working for an software company and you are more qualified to be a nuclear engineer.

    See, there’s these things called Toxic Dump sites and similar events like Chernobyl and Three Mile Island, they don’t give me a whole lot of confidence in the infallibility of man, which make me wonder if humans even know a quarter of what they call facts. You are proposing dangerous means to create energy, wanting to build 100 nuclear reactors and if something goes wrong, creating a shitload of pain. Take caution, remember, you’re supposed to be a Christian man.

  98. 98
    Little Dreamer says:

    It’s better to be pure and exterminate humanity

    WTF? I’m not the one proposing nuclear reactors, YOU are.

    How is wind power or other clean energy sources going to exterminate humanity? You make it sound like after a recycling of this nuclear material, nothing is going to show any signs that it was there. Would you feel safe licking a melted chocolate bar off the encasements for this material? I’m sure you would, you sound SO confident.

  99. 99
    Little Dreamer says:

    @robertdsc:

    Plowshares get beat into swords, not the other way around.

  100. 100
    Zifnab says:

    @robertdsc:

    How about converting our existing nuke weapons to civilian fuel just turning the keys over to the Chinks and the Ruskies and bending over for the New World Order?

    I think fucking not you god damn commie sonofabitch.

    Wolverines!

  101. 101
    Zifnab says:

    @Little Dreamer:

    How is wind power or other clean energy sources going to exterminate humanity?

    That’s the one thing that always gets me. We can spend a decade and billions of dollars researching high output photovoltaics and high efficiency wind turbines, or we can spend a decade and billions of dollars working up a marketing strategy to excuse “clean” coal and “wasteless” nuclear plants.

    What is wrong with good clean cheap renewable energy that everyone insists on running away from it at all costs? Other than the cheap part cutting into corporate profits, that is.

  102. 102
    Little Dreamer says:

    @Zifnab:

    There’s no way to start wars over it, Zif. That’s what’s wrong with it.

  103. 103
    demimondian says:

    @Little Dreamer: Because the math doesn’t work.

    You are choosing to wait for a pipe dream, and, in so doing, you are choosing to change the climate. *YOU* are exterminating humanity.

  104. 104
    Leelee for Obama says:

    Back in the day, when the Shoreham Nuclear plant was in my backyard, I wrote to anyone I could think of to try to figure out a way to put a meter on the sun instead of figure out how to get my family off Long Island when we had a melt-down. It was simple then, it’s simple now. We just haven’t ever been loud enough to drown out the MONEY INTERESTS. The politicians want our votes, coupled with our awed silence, thank you very much. I am almost ready to cry, and I’ve always been an optimist. Sometimes, I’m grateful I’ll miss the worst of this mess. My poor grandkids won’t.

  105. 105
    demimondian says:

    @Zifnab:

    We can spend a decade and billions of dollars researching high output photovoltaics and high efficiency wind turbines

    And how long have we spent researching those things already? Wind power is almost as old in human endeavor as water is, and water is as old as agriculture. Do you *honestly* think that the folks in the field don’t already know what the limits of available resources are? Photovoltaics? OK, so when you get past the quantum-mechanical limits (did you even know that there *are* such limits?), you come talk to me.

    What’s wrong with them? Simply put — *they* *are* *a* *pipe* *dream*. And you are fiddling while Rome burns.

  106. 106
    Little Dreamer says:

    @demimondian:

    Gee, I had no clue that we had to wait so long for WIND POWER.

    You know what Demi? The Dutch have had wind power for decades. Wind isn’t even something we have to create, we simply have to CATCH the source, a lot easier than building 100 nuclear power plants. When do you propose we’ll be finished building THEM?

    You are the one who is exterminating humanity, and wanting to do so with radioactive material. Your God would be so proud.

  107. 107
    Little Dreamer says:

    @demimondian:

    Ah zif, see, it’s not fancy enough. Nevermind that wind and water are natural resources that are easily renewed (unlike radioactive material). It’s just not modern enough for Demi the nuclear physicist.

  108. 108
    Little Dreamer says:

    @demimondian:

    So, how many weeks are you proposing it’s going to take to build these 100 nuclear power plants?

    A wind farm can be put together in a week if necessary, and there’s plenty of land that could be put to use if BLM were willing to allow it to be used. Your 100 nuclear power plants are going to take YEARS.

  109. 109
    TenguPhule says:

    Photovoltaics? OK, so when you get past the quantum-mechanical limits (did you even know that there are such limits?), you come talk to me

    They just did some new breakthroughs that make solar more efficient.

    Now all they need is money and industry to make it happen.

  110. 110
    TenguPhule says:

    That’s kind of the point of 100% consumption.

    There is no such thing as 100% consumption of nuclear fuel.

  111. 111
    TenguPhule says:

    Wind power is almost as old in human endeavor as water is, and water is as old as agriculture.

    And we still generate electricity using a method as old as the discovery of electricity production. Spin the Turbines.

    What the hell’s your point?

    Going Nuclear will not work.

    Solar, Wind,Water, Wave and recycling garbage into power is where the future lies.

    And we’d have probably been there already if the Republicans in combination with business interests hadn’t gummed up the works.

  112. 112
    Little Dreamer says:

    And how long have we spent researching those things already? Wind power is almost as old in human endeavor as water is, and water is as old as agriculture.

    The only reason it’s not put to more use is because then we couldn’t control the Middle East if we used it.

    You still didn’t answer my question: would you be willing to lick a melted chocolate bar off the encasements that this radioactive material was in before it got “100% recycled”?

    Answer the question.

  113. 113
    Little Dreamer says:

    @TenguPhule:

    That’s exactly my point.

  114. 114
    TenguPhule says:

    breeders taking otherwise useless U238 and mix it with a witch’s brew of reactor byproducts to make a fuel which contains a far greater proportion of fissile material.

    Witch’s brew.

    Fuck, now they’re dependent on magic to work right now?!

  115. 115
    demimondian says:

    You still didn’t answer my question: would you be willing to lick a melted chocolate bar off the encasements that this radioactive material was in before it got “100% recycled”?
    Answer the question.

    Of course I would.

  116. 116
    demimondian says:

    @TenguPhule: Um, yeah. Go actually read the literature, would you? That breakthrough — and it *is* a breakthrough, it’s beautiful materials science — gets one particular class of collectors up to 18%. There are a great many classes of collectors which already get up to 22% in normal conditions, and can be forced up to about 35% with concentrated sunlight, at the cost of shortening lifespan.

    Unfortunately, that’s 35% of radiant influx, which is pretty small 1AU from Sol.

    Let me help you with a few other facts.

    (1) Wind power has an upper limit. You can only build the towers so tall, and the blades so long. They can only travel so fast at the tips before they fail. This isn’t some “gosh we’ve never done it, so it can’t be done” argument — we’re talking about the strength of ionic connections in materials. That’s PHYSICS, baby, not materials science. You can only put so many of them in the same area. The generators have upper bounds on efficiency. You will *never* provide more than 10% of necessary energy with the wind, and that’s assuming that you’re happy to consign Africa and Asia to the third world forever.

    (2) Solar power? Ditto. Now, to be fair, photovoltaics are a terrible choice — the various liquid salt designs will get far better results. Even so, though, there are still basic problems with getting beyond about 10% of current consumption — and, again, you’re going to consign the vast majority of humanity to the darkness for that.

    (3) Consumption? We can and should cut about 20% of energy usage. That’s cool — with that, and all the alternative methods listed above — well, China can industrialize without increasing the net carbon production of humankind. I leave it to you to explain to the folks in India why they need to keep cleaning up shit by hand.

    And the beige people south of the equator? — well, that’s their tough luck, I guess.

  117. 117
    Little Dreamer says:

    @demimondian:

    Too bad this is just a rhetorical question and you’ll never find yourself in that position. You can lie all you want knowing you’ll never have to actually like DO that (I’m sure you’d be much less willing to actually pull it off if that scenario were staring you in the face).

    Where did you get your degree in Nuclear Physics from, demi?

    What year did you matriculate, and did you receive any honorary designations? What papers on nuclear science have you published?

    Oh, that’s right, I forgot, you work for a SOFTWARE COMPANY.

    You sure are willing to accept that something is 100% absolute yet you don’t take into account how fallible man has been in the past, and how ugly the disasters were that came of those situations.

    And, WHEN did you say these nuclear power plants would be completed? You didn’t answer that one either.

  118. 118
    Little Dreamer says:

    @TenguPhule:

    I’m not surprised, demi believes in otherworldly figures, why should demi not believe in witches concoctions?

    Where is your proof demi? You said I should not ignore facts… where are they? Who are you going to cite? I don’t see where you’ve provided any information. By all means, show me who it is you’re studying from, because we know you didn’t come up with this as a science project.

    Come up with facts. I don’t take nuclear physics knowledge from someone not in the field (goodness knows, you might mess up and get a concept wrong and end up explaining it totally wrong) – I want to see your sources.

    Where are they?

  119. 119
    Joel says:

    Just got back from two weeks abroad.

    From the coverage at CNN international, you’d have thought that Mike Pence was a rising star and that Obama was in the preliminary stages of a Hindenberg-esque disaster and an approval rating in the low-30s.

  120. 120

    @Little Dreamer:

    What year did you matriculate

    The school nurse told me that if I didn’t stop matriculating, I would go blind.

    Sorry, I just had to say that.

  121. 121
    Little Dreamer says:

    @PeopleAreNoDamnGood:

    Haha!

    Hello. Nice wind storm we’re having. ;)

    Gosh, Arizona gets such nice WIND sometimes!

  122. 122

    @Little Dreamer:

    Hell, the environmental impact studies alone would take up 25 years.

    As for the plants themselves, ugh. I worked at the General Electric Nuclear Power Division in San Jose long ago. That’s where they built the control rooms for the power plants.

    Let me put it this way. We are not ready to build 100 new nuclear power plants in this country. Even if you could get the gullible public to think it was a safe, sensible idea … which I don’t think it is.

    Pipe.Dream.

  123. 123
    BethanyAnne says:

    @PeopleAreNoDamnGood: /sigh… actually did lol at that… *bonks TZ on head*

  124. 124

    @BethanyAnne:

    Hey, glad you came back.

    Hope you are having a better day here.

    @Little Dreamer:

    I was hoping we would get some rain but it does not look like it right now. Most of the rain is staying well south of town.

  125. 125
    Little Dreamer says:

    @PeopleAreNoDamnGood:

    I know, but, I was just out in it and thinking about how much energy we could have gotten out of it. ;)

  126. 126
    BethanyAnne says:

    @PeopleAreNoDamnGood: Ty, I am :-)

  127. 127
    Little Dreamer says:

    @PeopleAreNoDamnGood:

    Hell, the environmental impact studies alone would take up 25 years.

    Heck, we don’t need no stinking environmental impact studies. Demi says that it’s a 100% recyclable energy source, what’s to study? It’s just like building a house, fer crissakes!

    Note: I’m sure you’re seeing the same dangers fraught in this argument as I’m seeing?

  128. 128

    @Little Dreamer:

    We can imagine the Brick Oven Bill Memorial Wind Power Farm over on the south of town. Heh.

  129. 129
    Little Dreamer says:

    @PeopleAreNoDamnGood:

    Next to The Badass Bar? Ooops! No, sorry, too mountainous, gotta bring it closer to town.

    I just figured since he liked that bar so much… well, you know. ;)

  130. 130
    BethanyAnne says:

    @Little Dreamer: Which reminds me of:

    “Irrigation of the land with seawater desalinated by fusion power is ancient. It’s called ‘rain’.”
    -Micheal McClary, in alt.fusion

  131. 131
    Little Dreamer says:

    @BethanyAnne:

    Gosh, we should outlaw that. It’s OLD technology. ;)

  132. 132
    Little Dreamer says:

    Where’s your facts demi? I’m waiting for your facts. I want to see your facts, Mr. nuclear physics expert.

  133. 133

    @Little Dreamer:

    Recyclable? According to Nuclear Energy Insitute, the paid pimpmobile for the industry, the “government” … uh …. “plans to develop” the technology to do this.

    Get it? Try to imagine some gigantic clusterfuck facility run by KBR out here in the desert.

    Does that give you a warm fuzzy feeling? It does me.

    Again: Pipe.Dream.

  134. 134
    Little Dreamer says:

    @PeopleAreNoDamnGood:

    Oh, you mean this stuff hasn’t even been created yet? demi was giving us the impression this was a newly discovered/created nuclear fuel. Hmmm, so first they have to actually MAKE the stuff, then figure out how it might impact the land and populations and THEN we can start building 100 nuclear power plants? Wow, we’ll have it done… after we’re all dead.

  135. 135

    @Little Dreamer:

    If you want to see what a complete pack of lies and pure fantasyware pipedream bullshit website looks like …..

    Take a look at this. You can almost hear the Cheney family laughing their asses off.

    “The government”, which I assume means the Palin administration, plans to make all this shit work.

  136. 136
    Little Dreamer says:

    @PeopleAreNoDamnGood:

    Yup, exacty as I thought:

    Through recycling, the separated uranium would become new fuel for commercial nuclear power plants. The long-lived radioactive elements, including plutonium, become fuel that could be used in advanced reactors that would be developed commercially as part of the research and development program.
    …..
    Advanced recycling technologies would reduce the volume, heat and toxicity of used nuclear fuel, but not completely eliminate the byproducts. The recycling byproducts would require disposal in a permanent repository.

    It’s not 100% recyclable.

    Demi, where’s your facts? Where is the sourcing for 100% recyclable nuclear material?

    I was right above when I said we’d have to build Yucca II, Yucca III and Yucca IV. Prove me wrong.

    “The government”, which I assume means the Palin administration, plans to make all this shit work.

    God help us all!

  137. 137

    @Little Dreamer:

    It’s a shell game. Where’s the waste? The hand is quicker than the eye.

    These assholes want to sweep all the technical horrors of nuclear power under the rug of obfuscation, out of sight, out of mind.

    Don’t worry, as George Bush would say, something for a future president to worry about.

  138. 138
    Little Dreamer says:

    @PeopleAreNoDamnGood:

    While geologic repositories will be needed for any type of nuclear fuel cycle, the use of a repository would be quite different for closed fuel-cycle scenarios.

    Hmmmm.

    Interesting reading, but I’m not seeing any sources that say that it is 100% recyclable with no biproducts leftover. Hmmmm.

    Demi, your argument is falling apart, you better come back and save it if you want to be taken seriously ever again. (oh that’s right, I stopped taking you seriously LONG ago!).

  139. 139

    @Little Dreamer:

    the use of a repository would be quite different for closed fuel-cycle scenarios.

    That’s how you write the copy for vaporware.

    Things “would be” different for closed fuel-cycle scenarios.

    If there were any such thing on a large scale.

    They want to use us as the guinea pigs in another round of nuclear experiments.

  140. 140
    Little Dreamer says:

    @PeopleAreNoDamnGood:

    “Soviet Union gone…
    Scary Cuban Tyrant stepped down…
    Osama bin Laden broke…
    Chavez crazy but contained…
    War President demoted in shame…

    (Neocon hangs head in disgust)

    “I know, let’s do something nuclear again”.

  141. 141
    TenguPhule says:

    Let me help you with a few other facts.

    In conjunction with water & wave energy.

    Eerie silence…..

  142. 142
    PaulB says:

    Cost-efficient extraction is years off and is probably going to have to be heavily subsidized by the federal government.

    And don’t forget the enormous cost in water, something that can be mighty scarce in the areas where the shale sands are located. If I recall correctly, it’s 1-3 barrels of water for every barrel of oil, depending on whose estimate you believe and what advances in technology are possible.

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