Birther Billboard Sighting

One of our crack Balloon Juice field operatives (they’re everywhere, you know they surround you!), has sent in this cell phone pic of a birther billboard in LA:

This still strikes me as one of the silliest wingnut endeavors of all time, and I wonder how many people are driving past that and thinking “What birth certificate? Martha, do you know what the hell that is all about?”

Previous coverage of the birther billboards here.

230 replies
  1. 1
    abiodun says:

    You know, I wonder if Reagan, Clinton, Bush 1 & 11 were asked for their birth certificates!

  2. 2
    Shygetz says:

    OMG, there’s a Bush 11!!!!! Someone sterilize that family, quick!

  3. 3
    cleek says:

    don’t these people know better than to show disunity by criticizing the CiC in a time of war? support the troops, ya buncha America-hatin dooshbgaz!

  4. 4
    greynoldsct00 says:

    Why am I not surprised that it’s in LA…

  5. 5
    Tokyokie says:

    Remind me again, which state was John McCain born in?

  6. 6
    demimondian says:

    One of our crack Balloon Juice field operatives (they’re everywhere, you knowTHEY SURROUND YOU),

    Fixt…

  7. 7
    Dan says:

    Maybe then mean Trig. Where IS that birth certificate?

  8. 8
    Bill E Pilgrim says:

    I think we should just lean into it, and start something about the virgin birth, or something. They love those sorts of stories so much, maybe it could be turned to advantage.

    And he was born with no Earthly birth cerficate, a…. a divine one was issued! Yeah that’s it. No wait it wasn’t issued, it just appeared. On toast.

    Honestly they do seem obsessed with these sorts of fantasies it occurs to me, whether something to be in awe of and worship or something to revile. Entirely made up, seems to be the attractive part.

  9. 9
    Woodrowfan says:

    Heck, painted sheets hung on pedestrian over-passes was good enough for the 9-11 twoofers!

  10. 10
    burnspbesq says:

    Without meaning to disparage your field operatives, may I just say that the correct use of the word “crack” in this context is to identify what the people who contributed money to put up this billboard must have been smoking at the time.

  11. 11
    different church-lady says:

    Drink!

  12. 12
    Woody says:

    We on the “left” challenged the legitimacy of the Bushevik election, and subsequently the legitimacy of the entire regime, on the basis that the election seemed to have been stolen, if not in the ballot boxes, then certainly in the SCROTUS.

    This is “rightard/fucknozzle” payback. The “Birthers” are the (predictablly spurious) fucktard rejoinder to the ‘left’s’ attack on Bushevik legitimacy.

  13. 13
    South of I-10 says:

    The birthers will not be satisfied until they each go to Hawaii and individually view the original birth certificate. Scratch that, they will never be satisfied. Bring the crazy.

  14. 14
    different church-lady says:

    Someone needs to get up on that thing and paint at the bottom:

    “A: At the State House in Hawaii”

  15. 15
    JGabriel says:

    Speaking of birthers, Fred Phelps’s Westboro Baptist Church Choir wants you to know that God Hates The World

    They continue to lap our satire.

    .

  16. 16
    ppcli says:

    OMG, there’s a Bush 11!! Someone sterilize that family, quick!

    11 generations of imbeciles is enough.

    .
    Justice Holmes

  17. 17
    Scruffy McSnufflepuss says:

    Wingnut meta. I love it!

    Totally incomprehensible gibberish, unless you’re already one of the people who believes it. “Preaching to the choir” in its ultimate form.

  18. 18
    GregB says:

    This question won’t fly in South Carolina because those racist crackers will have one question kicking around their pasty white pea brains.

    Gorillas have birth certificates?

    -G

  19. 19
    Brick Oven Bill says:

    The Constitution of China.

    You will note no right to expression, no right to own property, no right to your choice of religion. Reproductive rights are reserved by the State. The State has a duty of suppress ‘counter-revolutionary’ activities. Stuff like that.

    This is why I appreciate the United States Constitution. And when someone messes with it, either to score cheap political points, or to try to operate in violation of it, it pisses me off. This Constitution will be very important to our Republic is tried in the years ahead.

    President Obama should come clean on his birth certificate.

  20. 20

    People will assume it is some Minute Men/Keep the U.S. out of greasy forane hands rubbish.

    But to be perfectly honest, I almost admire this latest way of fleecing the flock. You could spin out the donation drive forever by claiming Those in Power are blocking their attempts to buy billboard space. It’s like being a TalEvangical preacher without the strain of waving a Bible.

  21. 21
    TheFountainHead says:

    @Bill E Pilgrim: I like this idea. Perhaps we can arrange for a crop circle in the image of the virgin Mary to appear on the South lawn?

  22. 22
    Dream On says:

    Barack Obama is a Chinese Muslim, so I suppose his birth certificate is in a Chinese Muslim File cabinet in a Chinese Muslim court house. In the country of China-Muslim.

    Or maybe not.

  23. 23
    vishnu schizt says:

    There is one in Centrailia, Washington at some trailer dealership along I-5. The billboard previously wanted the US out of the UN because the UN hates Jeebus and wants to sniff your panties or something like that.

    Of course the other long standing billboard along I-5 North in deep Washitucky warns that “The wages of sin is death”. Verb-subject agreement not with standing.

  24. 24
    El Cid says:

    The U.S. Constitution prohibits aliens from other star systems from being President of our Great Constitutional Republic, so Obama needs to come clean on his DNA profile and his amino acid base groups.

  25. 25
    SpotWeld says:

    I wonder how hard it would be to convince a hard right Christian group that these are Atheist billboards trying to make everyone question the birth of Christ…

  26. 26
    El Cid says:

    @SpotWeld: That’s a good one. I was assuming that the right was assuming that the billboards would be seen simultaneously as anti-illegal-immigration.

  27. 27
    Betsy says:

    I will be satisfied if these folk keep busy with the birth certificate nonsense, rather than finding actual important issues (abortion, health care, etc.) into which to pour their time, money, and crazy.

  28. 28
    kay says:

    I’m forever grateful that the fringe right weren’t on the losing side in the Bush v Gore SCOTUS case.

    They’d still be litigating. They’d be seating the 47th citizen grand jury this morning.

    They’re incapable of accepting a loss.

  29. 29
    Stan of the Sawgrass says:

    I’ve found the birth certificate!! It’s in a secret hospital in Dallas, in JFK’s pajama pocket! Yes, he’s still alive, but in a vegetative state (Texas.)

  30. 30
    Dream On says:

    The Centralia Washington billboard used to be owned by a local farmer, who would use quite imaginative insanely long messages for something like 20 years. I think he’s dead now, the farm has been replaced by an RV dealership, and whoever makes the signs just doesn’t put the same energy into them.

    Kinda like Washington State, really.

  31. 31
    Bill E Pilgrim says:

    @Brick Oven Bill:

    That’s it. You’re onto us. Obama is actually the President of the United States of China, and is rewriting the constitution as we blog. It’s going to all be on little slips of paper, broken into one sentence each so it can fit into the fortune cookies. People doing legal research will have to eat a hundred of them just to get a page or two. Everyone will be too bloated with cookies to go to trial. Thus we topple the legal system. In the meantime we’ve replaced the actual birth certificate in Hawaii with Folgers crystals, and were hoping you wouldn’t notice.

    Some people are just too sharp for us.

  32. 32
    cleek says:

    “The wages of sin is death”.

    you don’t even have to sin to get your share of death. the universe happily subsidizes death for those who fail to earn it themselves.

  33. 33
    Dream On says:

    Bill Pilgrim,

    You forgot “with the aid of the reverse-vampires”…

    and Brick Oven Bob, I do not believe “President Obama should come clean on his birth certificate”. That would be gross, and won’t somebody PLEASE think of the children!!

  34. 34
    chopper says:

    @JGabriel:

    Speaking of birthers, Fred Phelps’s Westboro Baptist Church Choir wants you to know that God Hates The World

    great, it took them almost 8 years to figure out what Slayer was saying back in ’01.

  35. 35
    ironranger says:

    I dunno…I would have a hard time picking which wingnut endeavor is the dopiest.

  36. 36
    Written Off says:

    You guys never disappoint. All I wanted was to climb up there and write WMD in place of birth certificate.

    He’s a Chinese Muslim now, huh? I have to say, I don’t think we’ve ever had such a wordly and culturally aware president.

  37. 37
    jugular says:

    Um… you mean Louisiana not Los Angeles, right? If the former, does anyone know where in Louisiana this is? I would like to see for myself…

  38. 38
    Laura W says:

    @Bill E Pilgrim: BOB is having another “off” day. He never makes typos like that.

  39. 39
    Docrailgun says:

    Obama admitted that he wasn’t born in the US… he was sent here by his father Jor-El.

    It can’t be denied… there’s video of him saying it!

    How convenient, eh? He could have been trained at a madrassa on Krypton and we’d never know since it was destroyed.

    The Justice Department should send Green Lantern and the Flash back in time at once to learn the truth!

  40. 40
    Deborah says:

    So, my vague recollection is a) the major news orgs like WaPo had seen the birth certificate and were satisfied; b) a birther searching Hawaiian archives found the birth announcement, with an address in Hawaii, which she admitted showed the certificate search to be a red herring; c) the logic behind why two poor college students would scrape up international airfare so they could have the baby with less help and worse medical care is vague unless they were part of a secret Islamic cabal who were also so stupid they would spend extra money to make their future takeover more difficult….

    Obviously 1000 birth certificates would not be enough for the wingnuts, since they would all be fake. But do they have any sort of “this is what we want” claim, or is it like teabagging for lower taxes and a balanced budget, where none of the parts actually connect to any other parts and it’s just wingnuttia all the way down?

  41. 41
    Brick Oven Bill says:

    Dream On is right. ‘Maybe not’.

    This is why I respectfully request that the document that was turned over to the Annenberg (Ayres) Group for inspection and public verification also be turned over to three independent groups so that we can know for sure.

    The US was Founded on the Principle that we are ruled by laws, not ruled by men . Trust me when I state that this is a good Principle. I have to deal with the pricks that would love to see this change.

    Hey Laura; Irregardless.

  42. 42
    Wolfie1974 says:

    Whose birth certificate? Is this some poor, desperate person trying to claim their SS benefits and can’t find their birth certificate? That’s awful! Or maybe trying to get a passport? This person must be pretty desperate to find their birth certificate if they’re putting up billboards! Because otherwise this just wouldn’t make any sense, right?

  43. 43
    Bill E Pilgrim says:

    @Laura W:

    Hey, Laura. Ca va?

    Typos like what?

  44. 44
    chopper says:

    what i want to see is proof that BOB isn’t a child molestor.

  45. 45
    Bill E Pilgrim says:

    @Brick Oven Bill:

    ruled by laws, not ruled by men . Trust me when I state that this is a good Principle. I have to deal with the pricks that would love to see this change.

    You mean you work for ex-Bush administration officials?

    How awful for you!

  46. 46
    Dream On says:

    The Real Birth Certificate – though it’s written in Chinese-Muslim – is located in the Valley of the Kings in Egypt. It’s in a deep chamber, surrounded by snakes and a strange Ark that makes a threatening hum. I was told this by somebody – and I was mighty impressed.

    Somebody wrote that “Obama admitted that he wasn’t born in the US… he was sent here by his father Jor-El. It can’t be denied… there’s video of him saying it!”

    I haven’t heard this, but it could be true. Even if there’s no videotape, and even if I’d never heard of it, it doesn’t mean somebody can’t boss me into thinking it’s true. I think.

  47. 47
    The Saff says:

    OK, can someone explain to me where and when all this nonsense started regarding Obama’s birth certificate or lack thereof? I remember seeing a link to the birth certificate on DailyKos last September. Rachel Maddow had a close-up of it on her show just last Thursday.

    What am I missing? And I apologize in advance for being obtuse.

  48. 48
    Punchy says:

    That white-on-black motif, along with the phrase, is eerily similar to Ice Cube’s “Death Certificate” album cover.

  49. 49
    canuckistani says:

    I think the birth certificate is on a spaceship hiding behind a comet. Put on your track suits and Nikes, drink this magic juice and we’ll all get to go an examine it!

  50. 50
    gnomedad says:

    I think Obama should put his birth certificate on display next to the Declaration of Independence. It won’t satisfy the birthers, but it may piss them off.

  51. 51
    The Saff says:

    I think Obama should put his birth certificate on display next to the Declaration of Independence. It won’t satisfy the birthers, but it may piss them off.

    Win!

  52. 52
    DBrown says:

    @Brick Oven Bill: Come clean on what? The State of Hawaii has confirmed Pres Obama does indeed have one and it is valid. So what does he need to do with a private document that no one but the State has a right to see?

    Bushwhack the asswipe needs to prove that he didn’t start a war with Iraq just to prove he was a bigger dick than his father so that his sexual desire for his mommy could be proven. That is the only thing that anyone needs to come clean on.

  53. 53
    Face says:

    President Obama should come clean on his birth certificate.

    That’s disgusting. You’d want to touch it after that?

    Edit–Damn you Dream On. Beatin’ to the punch. Or beatin’ something.

  54. 54
    Xenos says:

    @JGabriel:

    Speaking of birthers, Fred Phelps’s Westboro Baptist Church Choir wants you to know that God Hates The World

    They are beginning to sound like Cathars. Cathars who hate gay sex. Now that is a perversion.

  55. 55
    Dream On says:

    Saff,

    the serious answer to your question is that when discredited political followers see their fortunes ebb, they get VERY cranky, feel persecuted, clutch at straws and use whatever mode of attack they feel will work.

    Therefore, Barrack Obama is a Chinese Muslim because he doesn’t appear to be gay. You see the logic?

  56. 56
    Steeplejack says:

    @vishnu schizt:

    “The wages of sin is death.”

    Actually, that is correct, at least in classical English. The bald statement would be Death is the wages of sin, and reversing it is a well-worn rhetorical device whose name, um, regrettably escapes me now.

    In any case, it’s a direct quote from Romans 6:23 (KJV, I presume).

  57. 57

    I don’t agree that the birthers are silly. It’s racism, pure and simple. Whether it’s a signboard in LA, or spoofass bullshit from BOB. It’s about trying to keep alive resentment that is grounded in racism.

    Calling it silly, or joking around with BOB about it, is winking at the truth. There is no birth certficate issue or controversy, that has been well established. What there is is discontent that a black man with a funny sounding name got elected president.

    There is a virulent and dangerous underground of racist unrest out there, and when it pops up and kills people, as it did recently in Washington DC, it reveals itself for what it really is. Meanwhile, laughing it off just provides cover for it.

    It isn’t funny, or silly. It’s dangerous, and toxic.

  58. 58
    Deborah says:

    Gnomedad wins the thread.

  59. 59
    cleek says:

    OK, can someone explain to me where and when all this nonsense started regarding Obama’s birth certificate or lack thereof?

    here’s Snopes’ account.

  60. 60
    YellowJournalism says:

    @vishnu schizt: Is that the billboard with the picture of Uncle Sam? I love that thing! It always lets me know that I’m almost to the Centrailia outlet mall. Some of the messages on that thing reach BOB-like wonderment.

  61. 61
    Bill E Pilgrim says:

    Mmmmmmm. Wages of sin.

    Maybe I should switch careers.

  62. 62
    geg6 says:

    There is a local lawn and garden place that has a huge sign saying “Jason Altmire does not support this business.” I have no clue what this guy is talking about. And neither does anyone who I’ve asked. FTR, Altmire is about the most moderate of moderate Dems in the US House, so I have a hard time imagining what this guy’s beef is. But, in my experience, wingnuts never seem to feel a need for sense or coherence. As that billboard amply proves.

  63. 63
    truculentandunreliable says:

    @The Saff: Well, you see, the certificate issued by the state of Hawaii isn’t sufficient. It is “only,” essentially, a notarized document that includes the information from his original certificate and a statement that the state of Hawaii has verified this information using the “vault certificate,” which is the original certificate issued at the hospital and signed by the doctor.

    In other words, the document that every day, normal-ass, non-crazy people believe to be a birth certificate isn’t sufficient, even though it is notarized and verified by the state. AND even though Hawaiian medical privacy laws prevent the state from disseminating the “vault certificate” or a copy of it, it’s really all just a plot to hide the fact that Obama is a seekrit moooslim commie fascist Kenyan.

    Don’t ask me how I know this. I’m not entirely sure.

  64. 64
    scav says:

    Speaking of which, has anyone seen Waldo lately – maybe he has it. Or maybe Carmen SanDiego.

  65. 65
    Dream On says:

    There is a virulent and dangerous underground of racist unrest out there …laughing it off just provides cover for it.
    It isn’t funny, or silly. It’s dangerous, and toxic.

    Well, you’re probably right. So in the spirit of peace I offer you a cute photo.

    http://www.catsofaustralia.com.....rthair.jpg

    But I do still think there’s a Jor-El connection…

  66. 66
    Kirk Spencer says:

    Hey, BOB?

    Because we are a nation of laws, the evidence provided at this time of Obama’s birth as a US citizen is sufficient. You are demanding excess proof.

    The state of Hawaii provided a certificate that is considered legitimate and which passes as “birth certificate” in EVERY other legal context. Suddenly you and a handful of peers want to make the rules harder, and do so ex post facto. Guess what, BOB. That borders on unconstitutional as well. (It isn’t because it’s not ‘making a new law’, but because it’s setting a new and extraordinary interpretation of existing law it still might class as such.)

    You want to make the law mean what you want it to mean.

    No. Because we are a nation of laws.

  67. 67
    Xenos says:

    @The Saff: My best understanding of the birth certificate issue is that when Obama produced his b.c. it did not say ‘Birth Certificate’ on it but rather ‘Copy of Record of Live Birth’ or some other terminology. For some weird reason the Birthers think each time a baby is born the state issues an original certificate that sits in a vault somewhere as the ultimate proof of birth (instead of just keeping electronic and physical ledgers, the information from which is used to produce birth certificates when requested).

    Since the State of Hawaii won’t produce a document that only exists in the fantasies of the Birthers, the State must be part of some conspiracy to hide the proof that Obama was really born in Kenya.

  68. 68
    gnomedad says:

    @truculentandunreliable:
    Hawaii has a lot of brown people, so I’m not sure it’s really a state, and in any case its so-called “officials” can’t be trusted.

  69. 69
    gocart mozart says:

    Obama’s confession that he is an alien and therefore ineligible for the presidency can be found here.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vws9fTtQgz4

  70. 70
    Hunter Gathers says:

    It’s good to know that the proprietors of billboard advertising are able to make a few bucks off of the backs of complete idiots in an economic downturn.

  71. 71
    Xenos says:

    @truculentandunreliable: Is there even such a thing as a ‘vault certificate?’ As it is really just a medical record, and it is superseded by the state records, why would such a document be curated in a vault somewhere, and not shredded like any other old medical records?

    I have never seen a Birther demonstrate that such a vault certificate ever exists, and the burden should be on them to prove that.

  72. 72

    @Dream On:

    I think this is the cute image that needs to be looked at.

    And I think that this is the kind of information that we should be associating with birther sightings.

    The fact that these people are idiots doesn’t make them funny. It makes them dangerous.

  73. 73
    jenniebee says:

    @Dream On:

    Somebody wrote that “Obama admitted that he wasn’t born in the US… he was sent here by his father Jor-El. It can’t be denied… there’s video of him saying it!”

    I haven’t heard this, but it could be true. Even if there’s no videotape, and even if I’d never heard of it, it doesn’t mean somebody can’t boss me into thinking it’s true. I think.

    Even if it isn’t true, the fact that I find this credible only proves that you have a messiah complex about The One.

    Shorter Birthers: Sure, you have official documentation, but we have unsubstantiated rumor! Ha ha! We win + infinity, no takebacks!

    Seriously, BOB, you’re alleging a forty-year conspiracy on the part of the State of Hawaii, the US State Department, SCOTUS, and innumerable other random players, all to the benefit of a skinny black guy who really wouldn’t need their help to get Natural Born US Citizenship anyway, since his mother was a US Citizen at the time of his birth. He could have been born on the moon and he’d still be eligible for the presidency, since the exact same constitution that you’re holding up as the Great Principle At Stake guarantees that US citizenship is automatically conferred on the children of US citizens. If you, you know, read it, you’d know that.

    Also.

  74. 74
    geg6 says:

    I do believe that BOB should prove he isn’t the insane, racist, misogynist whose plan to build WMD from shale oil deposits in order to effect a totalitarian takeover of the Virgin Islands is only the first step in his plan for world domination. Until he does that, he should be sent to Gitmo and waterboarded until he finally tells us which brick in his oven is hollow and hiding the list of his co-conspirators. I’ll bet anything Glenn Beck is on it.

  75. 75
    jrg says:

    What am I missing? And I apologize in advance for being obtuse.

    The fact that Obama is black is central to their point.

  76. 76

    @The Saff:

    Actually Wingnutdaily is now behind the times in birferstan, the first stance was “where’s the birth certificate?” once it was produced it was “its a forgery”, when the Hawaii newspaper birth announcement was found (by a birfer), it moved to their final argument (which is the basket where all their eggs are kept at this point) which is that the definition of “Natural Born Citizen” is a child born on US soil of TWO US CITIZEN PARENTS. So the birth certificate at this point is irrelevant. This position is not supported by any facts (or court decisions) and is particularly amusing seeing as the same wingnuts who cling to it are those same wingnuts who scream “ANCHOR BABY” at every turn. It is basically a bunch of racists who can’t stand the idea that a black guy is in the White House. I do agree however that some of them are dangerous and when it becomes obvious to them that their crusade is going to fail, at every turn, the more unhinged they will become.

    PS) In August of 2008 WND confirmed that they had investigated the birth certificate and found it to be genuine. (Which they now deny) this latest ploy is just a way to raise money from the idiots.

  77. 77

    Are these the same people who a few years ago wanted a constitutional amendment so that Arnold Schwarzeneggar could run for President? Or are these the same people whose VP candidate and hubby played footsie with that group of traitors who wanted Alaska to secede from the US? Is there an overlap with the folks who want Texas to secede? Or the guys who want Alabama to secede?

    I mean, if you’re willing to manipulate the Constitution to get your favorite aging action hero on the top of the ticket, or if you actually want to walk away from the Constitution and country altogether, then what the hell is the problem here?

  78. 78
    Brick Oven Bill says:

    “OK, can someone explain to me where and when all this nonsense started regarding Obama’s birth certificate or lack thereof?”

    Here is Obama’s ‘fight the smears’ take on the birth certificatetake on the birth certificate. You can view the electronic image in question on the link. I became very suspicious when I read that the challenge was:

    ‘not about that piece of paper’

    Because the challenge really is about ‘that piece of paper’. If ‘that piece of paper’ does not exist and the electronic image is a fake, then this Administration is operating in a highly arrogant and irresponsible manner.

    I am requesting that the document that was turned over to the Annenberg (Ayres) Group for public verification also be turned over to independent agencies Kirk Spencer. This is a reasonable request.

  79. 79

    @Hunter Gathers:

    Actually they are being turned away by many of the big companies LAMAR for instance, the head of the company told them to basically STFU.

  80. 80
    burnspbesq says:

    @jugular:

    No, it’s actually in Los Angeles. I drive past it twice a day. Highlights of my day, right up there with my insulin injection.

  81. 81
    kay says:

    @SrirachaHotSauce:

    I sort of agree with you. I was pleased when they were busy filing those challenges in court.

    But, birthers only ramped it up after every court in the land sent them packing.

    The birthers are actually, presently, attempting the citizen grand jury tactic. That’s true. I wasn’t kidding.

    Which was also what the lunatics in Tiller eventually resorted to, when they failed to nail him on trumped-up criminal charges.

    Taking a page from the Tiller playbook is not comforting, and that’s what they’re doing.

  82. 82

    @Brick Oven Bill:

    The issue has been settled, and you are advancing lies grounded in racist resentment.

    That makes you a liar, and a racist, BOB. Assuming that you are also a fake, a spoof, that makes you a fake who is advancing lies and racist resentment.

    You might want to consider going in a different direction. If you think you are advancing the cause of those who oppose the lies and the racism, you are wrong. If you think you are advancing the lies and the racism, then you are a dangerous nutcase.

    Either way, you suck.

  83. 83
    jenniebee says:

    @Brick Oven Bill: you might think it’s a reasonable request, but that only goes to show that you are an unreasoning person.

  84. 84
    Comrade Dread says:

    I think a rather clever attorney who specializes in family law and paternity questions, should co-opt this message and display his own billboard with the same question, but with his law office phone number added.

    When questioned about it, he should make mention of the secret orders that came from Soros and D.C.

  85. 85
    DBrown says:

    @Brick Oven Bill: OK- if the State of Hawaii says the document is valid then the rule of law is met. So what else is there to this but rascist people who are too caught up in their own failures to accept reality.

  86. 86
    Egilsson says:

    @Brick Oven Bill:

    Hey Bill, you had a much more solid constitutional case against McCain, who was born in Panama.

    How come you hypocritical wingnuts didn’t get outraged about that?

  87. 87
    Dream On says:

    SrirachaHotSauce,

    OK , I bite. You offered a link to the Southern Poverty Law Center, but frankly I like my link better. They are equally useful, and my cat doesn’t have outrageous barely-legal overhead for a not-for-profit organization, a truly pitiful number of lawsuits brought forth each year – one of which, against admitted scum in Hayden Lake, was only done after the founder, Metzger I think, was old and senile. No, Corbin Bernsen’s 1980’s TV movie portrayal of folksy Morris Dees aside, I don’t think SPLC has much to offer beyond a slick quarterly magazine, a useful database – half of whose right-wing suspects are FBI informants. Ick.

    I’m not the only one to feel this way – google Harpers and Ken Silverstein find his old early ’90s expose of what a scam SPLC is. I should know, they were incredibly agressive separating me from my money, when I was young.

    I detect a distinct lack of humor on your part. We all have different ways of dealing with things, but I believe that for some, the fear and shame of ridicule and mockery will mean far more then trying to “connect” with them. If I find right-wing racist views obscene or outrageous, reasoning with them will work about as well as Bill Clinton in a Republican Congress. I do not need to wait my turn in line, and hope that an engaged discussion will make people understand why Rush Limbaugh might be… misguided. But shame, mockery and ridicule can not only be personally fun for me – I believe they work. This is why Al Franken wrote “Rush Limbaugh Is A Big Fat Idiot.” And look where that got Franken. Or will someday, Norm Coleman willing.

    Different strokes, but frankly I think your over-protective but sincere feeling is a bit too earnest for this thread. And I thought my British Shorthair cat picture was thrice-cool.

  88. 88
    Brick Oven Bill says:

    Any questioning of the Obama Administration is, by definition, racist. This I recognize.

    However, there are legitimate questions about the document which he sent to the Annenberg (Ayres) Group for verification on the public’s behalf. Since the Annenberg (Ayres) Group is above reproach, there should be no issue having an independent check.

    Right?

  89. 89
    gocart mozart says:

    Somebody wrote that “Obama admitted that he wasn’t born in the US… he was sent here by his father Jor-El. It can’t be denied… there’s video of him saying it!”

    Video clip of Obama admitting that Jor-El is his real father is here.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vws9fTtQgz4
    It can no longer be denied !eleventy!

  90. 90
    The Saff says:

    @Dream On:

    You see the logic?

    Yes. Although, seriously, I would like to know where this nonsense started. I mean, it’s just so stupid but I’d like to understand.

    I’m weird that way.

  91. 91
    Ash Can says:

    Shorterest birthers: “No! The president can’t be black! Noooooooo!!”

  92. 92
    The Saff says:

    It isn’t funny, or silly. It’s dangerous, and toxic.

    You are so right, SrirachaHotSauce. That’s why I pray everyday for Obama’s good health and safety, and I’m not even a praying person.

  93. 93
    JM says:

    the Annenberg (Ayres) Group

    The wha … ?

    These people really can’t help themselves. Fortunately, they’re helping us by showing that there’s no longer a rational right in this country.

    Keep up the good work.

  94. 94
    Dream On says:

    Saff,

    And seriously, there is no logic. The right is grasping at straws, looking for a leader, and rightly discredited. So they are angry. May they never return to power.

    Here is a link to the (liberal and wonderful) Harper’s Magazine 2000 article on the SPLC. Unfortunately the master link appears to be connected to a John Birch web-page, but this actual reprint appears verbatim.

    http://www.americanpatrol.com/.....01100.html

    and here’s a follow-up from Silverstein (look in the center of the page: SPLC, richer then Tonga.) Thankfully this web-page is not geared for right-wingers.

    http://www.harpers.org/archive.....c-90004891

    The ACLU and the People For the American Way, Act Blue – these are all worthy organizations. But the person who scolded me about the SPLC – lighten up. Your earnestness will not reach the right. Sadly.

  95. 95
    4tehlulz says:

    Now, now. BOB isn’t racist. He’s just objectively pro-assassination.

  96. 96
    Piper says:

    BOB,
    .
    Help me out here, because I really want to understand: what is the narrative of the conspiracy being suggested? Who are the players involved? Why is the Republican Governor of Hawaii helping to perpetuate this conspiracy? Does it go back to the time of Obama’s birth? If so, why would anyone think, pre-Civil Rights, that this (theoretically) foreign-born child of a single mother and African father could or would become President? Why would multiple disparate and unrelated parties all perpetuate this fraud? What is in it for them?
    .
    Cui bono?

  97. 97
    The Saff says:

    Cleek @ 59: Thank you for the link.

  98. 98
    Xenos says:

    @Brick Oven Bill: Ah. Annenberg = Ayers? You are beyond hope.

    How about you prove to me you are not a Bircher?

  99. 99
  100. 100
    geg6 says:

    The Saff: Talk to BOB. He’ll be happy to explain. But don’t blame me if you’re even more confused when he’s done.

  101. 101
    gocart mozart says:

    To Brick Head Bill,
    Re: “Annenberg (Ayres) Group” obsession.

    You do realize that the Annebergs were very close friends with the Reagans don’t you? My question to you is [if you are man enough to answer which I doubt] why do you think Ronald Reagan liked to pall around with terrorist supporters?

  102. 102
    SGEW says:

    N.B.

    It is important to note that B.O.B. has himself admitted that he holds racist views. [He has also admitted that he is a misogynist, but that’s beside the point.]

    Therefore, even though his contention that his interest in the President’s birth certificate is not necessarily racist in motivation is reasonable, one should probably be skeptical in the extreme that there are no prejudicial supremacist underpinnings to his objections.

    Additionally, he does the Birther “movement” no credit here in this forum. Which, pragmatically speaking, is probably for the best.

    [shorter: B.O.B.’s a racist. Fuck a racist.]

  103. 103

    I detect a distinct lack of humor on your part. We all have different ways of dealing with things

    That’s really brilliant, friend. Really. I say that I don’t think something is funny, and you say that you detect a lack of humor on my part.

    Let me be clear on two points: One is that I am by far funnier than you can ever possibly be. I mean, we are not even talking apples and oranges here.

    But much more importantly, I don’t happen to think that racism and the stirring up of confused, crazy people to do God knows what is funny, or should be laughed off.

    If we disagree on that point, fine with me. Based on what I have seen from you so far, disagreement with you is highly desirable. But that’s just me.

    If you want to respond to crazy, racist crap with cat pictures, feel free, knock yourself out. I think you are making a mistake, and we’ll have to agree to disagree on that point.

    And saying that SPLC is only useful for having a database is a little inane, isn’t it? The database is the whole point. I don’t have to like their style to appreciate the information that they are gathering.

  104. 104
    jenniebee says:

    @Brick Oven Bill: Here in reality land, the Annenberg foundation is not the arbiter of whether or not a birth certificate is valid. The certifying state is, and Hawaii says that it’s legit. If you want to make arguments about how if we think Hawaii’s to be trusted then nobody should mind if Alaska and Texas independently verify the document, please wait until I can make popcorn before you do.

    My advice – give up the birther thing and concentrate on venting your spleen at CBS. They’re still into that “caving in to the rantings of deranged lunatics” thing. Us, not so much.

  105. 105
    Face says:

    @Brick Oven Bill: Just STFU and GTFO ASAP, OK?

  106. 106
    abrxas says:

    Is that LA Louisiana or Los Angeles? One surprises, the other doesn’t.

  107. 107
    abrxas says:

    Is that LA Louisiana or Los Angeles? One surprises, the other doesn’t.

  108. 108
    gocart mozart says:

    Some links proving the nefarious Reagan / Annenberg connection. [Unimbedded, sorry John.]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Annenberg

    http://www.annenbergfoundation....._id=539921

  109. 109
    truculentandunreliable says:

    @Xenos: No. I mean, in some cases, there are actual “certificates” that are kept with the stamped baby feet and all that shit, but it could just as easily just be a medical record or a statement from the hospital to the state about his birth.

    The funny thing is that birthers are the same people who complain on and on and fucking ON about “big government” and bureaucracy–isn’t a birth certificate the ultimate example of big government and bureaucracy? Isn’t it just a statement as to whether you exist or not?

    I’ve also noticed, of course, that the only people who seem to have to prove their existences and/or citizenship are Brown People. (Or, occasionally, old rural whites who were born at home).

  110. 110
    Brick Oven Bill says:

    Annenberg is the group that funds Bill Ayres’ Chicago Challenge to the tune of tens of millions. It also owns ‘Fact Check’, the group to which the Obama certificate was submitted for verification on behalf of the American people.

    This creates a potential appearance of impropriety and the questions in some people’s minds that have resulted in the billboards. The question is legitimate in my opinion based on the evidence available for public consumption. This is why I believe that the responsible thing for the President to do would be to submit the certificate to other independent agencies for a fact check.

    People complain that talk radio is stoking ‘extremism’. I would argue that the Administration’s conscious refusal to put this issue to bed is creating far more questions in people’s minds than anything Rush Limbaugh is saying. They could end this in less than one hour.

  111. 111

    Any questioning of the Obama Administration is, by definition, racist. This I recognize.However, there are legitimate questions about the document which he sent to the Annenberg (Ayres) Group for verification on the public’s behalf. Since the Annenberg (Ayres) Group is above reproach, there should be no issue having an independent check.Right?

    No, wrong. On all counts. You are being called a racist for advancing lies that are being advanced by racists. Quack, walk, look, duck, etc.

    There are no legitimate questions about the birth certificate. Repeating them over and over does not make them legitimate. They’ve been answered. Therefore they are settled questions.

  112. 112
    feebog says:

    Brick Oven Bill said:

    However, there are legitimate questions about the document which he sent to the Annenberg (Ayres) Group for verification</blockquote

    No, there are not any legitimante questions. There are stupid, mindless and dumb questions, but there are no longer any legitimate questions about where Obama was born. And, as pointed out eariler, his mother was a U.S. citizen at the time of his birth, making the whole question moot anyway.

  113. 113
    patrick says:

    @SrirachaHotSauce:

    There is a virulent and dangerous underground of racist unrest out there, and when it pops up and kills people, as it did recently in Washington DC, it reveals itself for what it really is. Meanwhile, laughing it off just provides cover for it.

    Good Lord, that site is filled with WIN.

    What nation in its right mind, after 9/11, after Osama (at least his collaboration with the powers that be on it), after our alleged war on terrorism, would elect a questionable and dark character who is pro-Muslim, raised during his influential years in Muslim countries, has attended a hateful Afro-racist congregation that preaches anti-American and anti-white sermons typical of Black Liberation Theology, is endorsed by avowed Black racists and rabid Nazi Muslims, etc. would let Barack Hussein Obama even entertain the notion of running for president for a second? It certainly appears America is under a curse and those who treacherously voted for that fraud and foreigner are helping to make Marxist Jeremiah Wright’s wish come true that God damn America. Shame!

    My favoritest part is “Rabid Nazi Muslims”.

    The only way to improve on that would be to add the “N” word after Muslim.

    Heck, I’d buy a T-shirt with that on it. Or start a band.

  114. 114
    truculentandunreliable says:

    “I would argue that the Administration’s conscious refusal to put this issue to bed is creating far more questions in people’s minds than anything Rush Limbaugh is saying. They could end this in less than one hour.”

    Fuck’s sake. As usual. “IT’S ALL OBAMA’S FAULT!!!”

    Has anyone else noticed the similarity between rape apologists and the way the right talks about the left and Obama?

  115. 115
    patrick says:

    @Brick Oven Bill:

    This creates a potential appearance of impropriety and the questions in some people’s minds that have resulted in the billboards.

    Some people need lobotomies.

    Just sayin’.

  116. 116
    gocart mozart says:

    Brick Head Bill thinks the foundation started by one of Ronnie Reagan’s bestest pals is in cahoots with The Usurper’s Grand Conspiracy. Is there a limit to his stupidity?

    Hey Bill, you have yet to answer my question: Why did Reagan like to pal around with “terrorist supporters”?

  117. 117
    sacman701 says:

    You guys are all wrong. The birth certificate is in the glove compartment of one of the black helicopters.

  118. 118
    El Cid says:

    I have never seen the triple vault copy of Ronald Reagan’s birth certificate. I think the evidence suggests that an actor was hired to play a political role and we never found out who the real person was, as is demanded by the U.S. Constitution which is totally not Muslim Chinaman in origin.

  119. 119

    @Brick Oven Bill:

    I would argue that the Administration’s conscious refusal

    You’d be wrong, then.

  120. 120
    truculentandunreliable says:

    @gocart mozart: But Gerald Ford died at Eisenhower Medical Center which was opened by the Annenberg Foundation so it proves that they hate Republicans!

  121. 121
    bago says:

    Any questioning of the Obama Administration is, by definition, racist.

    Just for clarification how is that statement inherently different from the following quote:

    Any questioning of the Carter Administration is, by definition, racist.

    Seriously, that is some goddamned stupid shit to be slinging. I have spent the past 5 minutes trying to come up with an intelligent response to this kind of retardation that doesn’t involve accepting the premise in some way, and it’s hard to come up with something that doesn’t bely the idiocy of the tautological assertion of verb + subject = definition. I feel stupid for having taken the time to formulate this response. I might as well refust the statement “blurry is eating pie” because it makes just about as goddamned much sense.

  122. 122
    gocart mozart says:

    questionable and dark character

    Not just questionable but also dark. Especially Dark!

    avowed Black racists and rabid Nazi Muslims, etc.

    America is under a curse and those who treacherously voted for that fraud and foreigner are helping to make Marxist Jeremiah Wright’s wish come true that God damn America.

    Ahh, I see, its an IslamoNegroNaziMarxist coalition. It all makes sense to me now. Also, if you believe that “America is under a curse”, aren’t you by definition saying that you believe that God has “damned America”?

  123. 123
  124. 124

    @gocart mozart:

    Is there a limit to his stupidity?

    This is TBD.

  125. 125
    Nash says:

    Which part of “child of a US citizen = child IS a US citizen” is difficult to process?

    I mean, it’s like you’re intentionally disregarding an incontrovertible fact because it directly conflicts with your own . . . . Oooooohhhh.

  126. 126
    gocart mozart says:

    But Gerald Ford died at Eisenhower Medical Center which was opened by the Annenberg Foundation so it proves that they hate Republicans!

    This has Vince Foster-like conspiracy written all over it. This raises interesting questions.
    1. Does anyone know the whereabouts of Walter Annenberg and Bill Ayers at the time of Gerald Fords death?
    2. Why wont they produce the vault copy of Gerald Ford’s death certificate?

  127. 127
    Dream On says:

    <“That’s really brilliant, friend. Really. I say that I don’t think something is funny, and you say that you detect a lack of humor on my part.

    …I am by far funnier than you can ever possibly be. I mean, we are not even talking apples and oranges here.

    But much more importantly, I don’t happen to think that racism and the stirring up of confused, crazy people to do God knows what is funny, or should be laughed off.

    If we disagree on that point, fine with me. Based on what I have seen from you so far, disagreement with you is highly desirable. But that’s just me.

    If you want to respond to crazy, racist crap with cat pictures, feel free, knock yourself out. I think you are making a mistake, and we’ll have to agree to disagree on that point.

    And saying that SPLC is only useful for having a database is a little inane, isn’t it? The database is the whole point. I don’t have to like their style to appreciate the information that they are gathering.
    —————————————-

    So, have you ended racist conspiracy theory yet? No?

    My approach is what Bill Maher once said: “I’m tired of having to adjust my life because of what stupid people might do…” Loose quote. To me this is a search for freedom. We can be serious but sarcastic, apparently that’s verboten for you. The thread has gotten very earnest and rather unfunny, and yet nobody here seems to have changed BOB’s mind. Well, I never thought I could change BOB’s mind. It might help to point out that the sign does have racist connotations for many, but it DEFINITELY has xenophobia. Fear of the outside world. Maybe a better starting point would be the fear of foreigners instead of the cut-and-dried racism card. (I know, they are often the same fear.)

    I try to take your comments in the spirit(s) that they’re intended, and I have not tried to offend you. This may be a case of two sensitive people slamming each other. But, put your money where your mouth is and plop down $100 to SPLC. I promise you your mailbox will runneth over.

    As for you being funny, I must have missed it, and will surely try harder.

  128. 128
    kay says:

    What you have to realize is, it doesn’t matter. The birthers lost on 3 different claims in court.

    When that happened, they announced that 1. the judges were corrupt, and 2. a court clerk broke the law, and deleted their electronic filing, a wholly ridiculous claim. They accused the clerk and the birther minions just accepted the accusation as fact.

    So you see it doesn’t matter. When they lose in legal channels, they simply go to extra-legal explanations for why they lost.

    It’s really tough when authoritarian personality types, and that’s what birthers are, lose. They cannot handle that. They’ll never accept the result as valid.

    Birtherism isn’t specific. It’s a way of looking at the world.

  129. 129
    Brick Oven Bill says:

    I understand that Nash is arguing that Obama may not have been born in Hawaii, but that he is a Citizen anyway, because his mother was a natural-born US Citizen. I will again demonstrate that this argument is false. In 1961, a child born abroad to a Citizen-non Citizen couple would only become a Citizen if his Citizen-parent resided in the US for 5 years after their 14th birthday.

    In the scenario that Obama was born abroad, he would not be a Citizen as the mother was 18, and it would have been impossible for her to have resided in the US for 5 years after her 14th birthday. Here you go:

    State Department Link:

    “Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock: A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) INA provided the citizen parent was physically present in the U.S. for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child’s birth. (For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen is required. For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen are required for physical presence in the U.S. to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.”

  130. 130
    truculentandunreliable says:

    @gocart mozart: Dude, if you REALLY want to go down the rabbit hole, the Betty Ford Clinic is part of the Eisenhower Hospital’s expansion. Therefore, I think it’s perfectly reasonable to ask that Betty Ford submit to a drug test. If she will not, then it’s further proof that the Annenberg Foundation is covering up Obama’s citizenship.

  131. 131
    Max Peck says:

    Is BOB a citizen? I’ve never seen his BC.

  132. 132

    My approach is what Bill Maher once said: “I’m tired of having to adjust my life because of what stupid people might do…”

    Meh, I think Maher is a good comedian. I don’t think he is much of a pundit. Maher thinks he can moonlight as a pundit.

    Well, I guess he has convinced HBO to pay him a bunch of money to masquerade as one. Good for him.

    It only takes a couple of stupid people ruin a lot of people’s lives. 19 terrorists. Tim McVeigh. Sirhan Sirhan.

    I take them quite seriously.

  133. 133
    Death By Mosquito Truck says:

    BOB, Hawaii is not a broad. It’s a state.

  134. 134
    Dream On says:

    OK,

    We’ll try it this way. Brick Oven Bill, what exactly are you afraid of regarding Obama’s birth certificate. How do you feel this will affect your personal life?

  135. 135

    But, put your money where your mouth is and plop down $100 to SPLC. I promise you your mailbox will runneth over.

    I always put my money where my mouth is, son.

    My PMMWMMI money goes to ACLU, and to Smile Train.

    Last year it all went to Barack Obama.

    If I find that I need any advice on how to spend that money I will put you on my list of advisors. Alas, there are several thousand names ahead of yours right now, but in the fullness of time, I am sure you will bubble up.

  136. 136
    Brick Oven Bill says:

    Two years after the age of 14 is required for those born after 1986 Max Peck. Obama was born in 1961 so his mother’s requirement was five years.

    I do not like politicians playing fast and loose with the Constitution Dream On. In the scenario that the electronic copy is a fake, it bothers me that the leadership of my Country would falsify documents to gain power. Call me a sap.

  137. 137

    I must have missed it, and will surely try harder.

    Of course you will.

  138. 138
    Max Peck says:

    Is BOB accusing the state of Hawaii of lying? Are they a bunch of rabid NaziMuslims too?

  139. 139
    kay says:

    @PeopleAreNoDamnGood:

    I think it’s fair to look for a pattern. A refusal to accept a court judgment seems to be an area of commonality among right wing fringers, and their various causes.

    I’m not missing the irony here, either. Birthers scream incessantly about the Rule Of Law, until they get smacked at the courthouse.

    Then they dismiss that result.

    I don’t get it. They blather on about the Rule of Law until they actually lose in a courtroom? What the hell do they think the Rule of Law consists of, as a practical matter? One side loses. That’s the point.

    Rule of law until I lose? That’s an interesting take. They’re inherently lawless people. They don’t play by the rules.

  140. 140
    Death By Mosquito Truck says:

    Sorry, BOB, you were specifically addressing the “what if not born in Hawaii” question. Carry on with yer lunatic ravings.

  141. 141

    Call me a sap.

    You’re a racist sap.

  142. 142
    Dream On says:

    “If I find that I need any advice on how to spend that money I will put you on my list of advisors. Alas, there are several thousand names ahead of yours right now, but in the fullness of time, I am sure you will bubble up.”

    ————-

    Man, what with all the user-name changes, I feel like the pitcher keeps getting replaced every other at-bat. Who am I even arguing with anymore?

    But Smile Train sounds worthy. My sister was born with a harelip/cleft-palette – a traumatic thing – and I think it’s decent that you contribute. Thank you, and maybe we’ll leave it at that.

  143. 143
    Tony J says:

    The Justice Department should send Green Lantern and the Flash back in time at once to learn the truth!

    Don’t be ridiculous. Green Lantern and the Flash are way too busy dealing with zombie Black Lanterns to spare the time.

    No, this is obviously a case for Rip Hunter and Booster Gold.

  144. 144
    JGabriel says:

    @Bob In Pacifica:

    Or the guys who want Alabama to secede?

    Hey! I want Alabama to secede.

    Of course, I’m a New Yorker.

    .

  145. 145
    IndieTarheel says:

    @South of I-10:

    The birthers will not be satisfied until they each go to Hawaii and individually view the original birth certificate.

    Wrong.They could be transported en masse back in time to the birth itself, and they’d STILL have a problem with it.This whole thing is so lacking in logic that Spock, while reviewing the historical tapes of this period, is literally crying.

  146. 146
    gwangung says:

    No, this is obviously a case for Rip Hunter and Booster Gold.

    Who? “Never heard of him.”

  147. 147
    PurpleGirl says:

    I believe that the Annenberg Challenge programs, especially the one with grants to the Chicago school system on school reform have ended. If you check the Annenberg Foundation website you will see a new group of active initiatives and a link to former programs, which include several Challenge grants, including the one in Chicago. That final report was issued in 2002, it appears.

    http://www.annenbergfoundation....._id=212990

    What relevance does Annenberg have anymore in the Obama story?

  148. 148

    But Smile Train sounds worthy

    It’s a wonderful charity, and they have one of the highest percentages of donation-to-action (low admin costs) of any that I have seen.

    I’m glad we found something to agree on.

  149. 149
    Zuzu's Petals says:

    Ya just knew BoB would have to weigh in with his usual air pudding.

    The thing that makes his trollery so obvious is that he can be corrected any number of times and just show up at the next thread repeating the same nonsense.

    See, for instance, comments #52 and following.

  150. 150
    J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford says:

    @Brick Oven Bill:

    Brick Oven Bill Bigot

  151. 151
    Max Peck says:

    @Brick Oven Bill:

    In the scenario that the electronic copy is a fake,

    But it’s not fake. You just think it is and until a certifed right winger says it’s real you will continue down this path because you are a sheep. Nothing the left can say will ever change your mind. You can’t be reasoned out of what you were never reasoned into. You were not reasoned into this belief, it’s simply the reflex action by a wingnut to a democrat gaining power. You can’t stand that he stole the center from you, actually you guys gave it away but the end result is the same.

    it bothers me that the leadership of my Country would falsify documents to gain power. Call me a sap.

    Do you have a problem with all leadership or just democratic leadership falsifying documents to gain power?

    You’re a sap.

  152. 152
    Piper says:

    Come on BOB, help me out here: what is the narrative? I’ve tried again and again to get a Birther to address this question but to no avail. I wonder why that is… could it be because there is no narrative whatsoever that would make a lick of sense to anyone with half a functioning brain cell?

  153. 153
    Bubblegum Tate says:

    I’ll be making the Bay-to-LA drive right down I-5 and through the heart of Red State California. I will report on any Birther wackiness I encounter along the way.

  154. 154
    kay says:

    The birthers lost round one in court, and when they did, they claimed a court clerk had deleted an electronic filing. No proof. They just said it.

    He was part of the conspiracy.

    This clerk has a name and reputation, and a job that depends on not deleting electronic filings. No matter. They needed the dupes to keep donating, so they smeared this guy.

    That was enough to appease the morons who donate. “Sure! That explains it! The clerk is a crook”.

    And it was on to round two, where they lost, again.

  155. 155

    Who am I even arguing with anymore?

    In my family, at the dinner table, that was called “changing the subject.”

    Heh.

  156. 156
    Brick Oven Bill says:

    Max Peck, if you are under the impression that government officials are above reproach and above board in all of their dealings, I can set you up with an internship. There will be very little pay, but you will learn more than you would in one full-year of Ivy League education.

    A year in the Ivy League probably costs $40,000 and I can impart enlightenment upon your consciousness in probably three months. So the internship I am offering you has the value equivalent of $160,000. This is a lot of money, and a great deal for you.

    Look me up.

  157. 157
    Max Peck says:

    @JGabriel:

    Hey! I want Alabama to secede.

    Of course, I’m a New Yorker.

    Do you want Long Island to secede?

    BOB,
    Why’d you capitalize country? Is there a grammar rule I’m not aware of?

    leadership of my Country

  158. 158
    Zuzu's Petals says:

    PS on prior, fixed link appears at comment #91 at that thread.

  159. 159
    Dream On says:

    BOB,

    “In the scenario that the electronic copy is a fake, it bothers me that the leadership of my Country would falsify documents to gain power.”

    ——————————-

    But if “politics matters” – and most of us here feel it does, probably you as well – what is it you are afraid of. It can’t just “bother” you – you have a lot of energy. What are you afraid of. What’s the scenario that will unfold?

    Also curious why you call yourself Brick Oven Bill. Are you a baker? Do you have a thing for ovens? No snark.

  160. 160
    Ash Can says:

    @ Death By Mosquito Truck: LOL

  161. 161
    steve s says:

    Seriously, that is some goddamned stupid shit to be slinging. I have spent the past 5 minutes trying to come up with an intelligent response to this kind of retardation that doesn’t involve accepting the premise in some way, and it’s hard to come up with something that doesn’t bely the idiocy of the tautological assertion of verb + subject = definition. I feel stupid for having taken the time to formulate this response. I might as well refust the statement “blurry is eating pie” because it makes just about as goddamned much sense.

    Like Nietzsche said, “Battle not with tards, lest ye become a tard, and if you gaze into the stupid, the stupid gazes also into you.”

  162. 162

    @Brick Oven Bill:

    Look me up.

    What’s your email address, Bob?

  163. 163
    Dusty says:

    If birthers won’t accept the document already provided by the State of Hawaii and confirmed by the officials from the State of Hawaii, why would they believe a birth certificate released by the State of Hawaii? Obama’s already provided ample documentation to verify that he was born in Hawaii and there’s no evidence that he wasn’t. Birthers don’t accept it because they don’t want to.

  164. 164

    @Dream On:

    Watch out, he will start posting the blueprints for the frickin oven.

    Again.

  165. 165
    Dream On says:

    BOB,

    again – I appreciate your responses, not making fun of you. Assuming you are right – and I am certain you are not – what is the perfect outcome for you? What would you want to happen? Biden taking over because of impeachment? A new election? What?

  166. 166
    gocart mozart says:

    Arguing with Bill is like arguing with a turnip.

  167. 167
    PaulB says:

    @Nash:

    Which part of “child of a US citizen = child IS a US citizen” is difficult to process?

    Actually, on this one, the birthers do have a case (rendered moot, of course, by the fact that Obama was born in the U.S.). The law at the time of Obama’s birth stated that if only one parent was a U.S. citizen, that parent must have resided in the U.S. for at least ten years, at least five of which had to be after the age of 16. Obama’s mother did not meet that requirement. Had Obama not been born in the U.S., this could have been a valid legal issue.

  168. 168
    Dream On says:

    “Watch out, he will start posting the blueprints for the frickin oven.”

    ——————

    That’s only OK if it’s one of those sugar-cookie ovens you could order in the ’80s from Sears catalogs. You know, the one with the 45-watt lamp.

  169. 169

    @Dream On:

    I think Bob wants John to turn the BJ font green to support the birthers.

  170. 170
    Egilsson says:

    @Brick Oven Bill:

    Answer the question posed in #86, hypocrite. Remember, McCain was born in Panama (and read Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution).

    And where were your supposed “constitutional” concerns during the Bush years? Even though you have no idea about the nature of Yoo’s “analysis”, you automatically accept the premise that the president has the power to point his finger at an American citizen and have him secretly imprisoned for years without a hearing, without access to counsel, without the right to confront his accuser, without the right to a speedy trial, and without any opportunity to contest the evidence against him (and while getting tortured)? Gee, think if Obama did those things you might object?

    And yet despite those facts, you squeal like a sensitive baby about a state-certified birth certificate?

    Everyone calls you a racist because you have no logic, so your objections are obviously a pretext for hate.

    I’m sick of wingnut bullshit and intellectual dishonesty. You dumbasses have really hurt this country, and you are still doing it.

  171. 171
    Max Peck says:

    @Brick Oven Bill:
    Is this a response to me asking if BOB thinks the state of Hawaii is lying? You accuse me of being naive as a way of ducking the question?
    Is it you’re belief that because gov’t officials have been involved in scandals in the past that anytime you don’t like what the gov’t does you can dismiss their actions as corrupt, ignore any explanation as a lie and take it all as proof you are right?

  172. 172
    PaulB says:

    @kay:

    They blather on about the Rule of Law until they actually lose in a courtroom?

    Their contention is that they are losing on technicalities, specifically, the standing issue, not on substance. Accordingly, they will continue to press the issue until they can get a court to take the issue seriously and force Obama to cough up the “real” certificate.

  173. 173

    @Dream On:

    Oh no, it’s a serious brick oven that can give you a nice 800 degree pizza baking temp.

    I think he also heats up the lead for the balls for his musket in there.

  174. 174
    SGEW says:

    @gocart mozart: “Arguing with Bill is like arguing with a turnip.”

    I don’t know. I’ve never seen a racist, misogynist turnip.

  175. 175
    Dream On says:

    BOB,

    Hello. Is there anybody in there? Just Nod if you can hear me…

    Is there Anyone at Home?

  176. 176

    @Max Peck:

    You mean a certified right winger like Bill O’Reilly? He has already said he has seen the birth certificate, Fox News has a copy of it and it is real. Doesn’t matter a lick to the birfers. I think that the one thing that people miss in this entire scenario is that if there was even a whiff of truth in any of it do you honestly think that the entire Republican machine and the Hillary campaign wouldn’t have done something with it? But no their theory is that it took some keyboard commandos and a handful of incompetent (at best) or insane (at worst) attorneys to uncover the truth.

  177. 177
  178. 178

    Grassroots people have recourse however, in the exercise of their own property rights. People with appropriately situated property who want to see the Constitution’s authority re-established, should offer use of the property for placement of the billboards. In addition people should place signs in their shop windows, and bumper stickers on their vehicles until it becomes impossible to drive the streets and highways without wondering why Obama obstinately refuses to comply with the Constitution he has supposedly sworn to uphold.

    Alan Keyes

  179. 179
    Ed Drone says:

    This creates a potential appearance of impropriety and the questions in some people’s minds that have resulted in the billboards.

    And the perpetuation of that image is the whole point of the birther’s efforts. Anything to in any way delegitimize the election of Barack Obama is fodder for these racist cretins. Anything.

    For example, the “five year rule” is arguably unconstitutional — the constitution doesn’t have anything about it, just “natural born citizen” — so John McCain’s Canal Zone birth was “OK” because, despite being outside the US, his parents were citizens. Obama had one US citizen parent, so that US law at the State Dept. link sets rules that are arguably unconstitutional (I know, you can argue either way, but you have to admit it’s a problem when a mere act of Congress gets to define a term from the Constitution; I can think of lots of terms in the Constitution that could be defined differently — “well-regulated militia” being one).

    In any case, Obama was born in Hawaii, with the birth announcement from the local paper supplying an extra measure of proof beside the certified copy of the birth certificate already attested to by the State of Hawaii.

    So the only reason to keep beating this dead horse is to raise doubts in the public mind. That’s why they do it! And, honestly, our discussion of the facts probably doesn’t help.

    And B.O.B., OK, you’re a sap. Are you happy now?

    Ed

  180. 180
    SGEW says:

    Alan Keyes

    This has rolled over from meta to luminous batshit irony.

  181. 181
    Dream On says:

    BOB seems to be busy. And he never told me the meaning of his acronym. Is he a baker? We may never know.

    Still can’t believe there was once an MSNBC show called “Alan Keyes Is Making Sense”. He didn’t then, he’s worse now.

  182. 182
    Laura W says:

    @Brick Oven Bill:

    Hey Laura; Irregardless.

    Yes, I remembered that, Bill, but I don’t consider that a typo, per se.
    That was more a fictitious word spoof goof.

    Did Dream On break this whole thread into bold up at 127 with that >? Painful on the eyeballs. But not just for that reason alone.

  183. 183
    Max Peck says:

    BOBs a racist but everyone is so that’s not the issue. The issue is he’s an asshole. Racism is just one way in which his asshole nature manifests itself, there are others I’m sure. The republican party is the party of assholes who want the country to be a certain way and when it’s not they get angry. Talk radio and Fox gives them a target for their anger and allows them to spout asshole things that should get them punched in the eye but they are careful to only say it around like minded assholes. I know I was formerly a member.

    Right now they’re angry becasue they think this country was founded to be a captalist paradise for white christian men but it’s not and they are slowly realizing this fact and they are very very pissed off. JTP is angry, JTP smash!

  184. 184
    Max Peck says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt:

    You mean a certified right winger like Bill O’Reilly? He has already said he has seen the birth certificate, Fox News has a copy of it and it is real. Doesn’t matter a lick to the birfers.

    let’s find out if it matters.

    BOB? Bill O says the BC is real. Is he still a conservative?

  185. 185

    @Dream On:

    BOB seems to be busy.

    Probably out delivering a pizza.

  186. 186
    Dream On says:

    Kosher pizza? Vegetarian? Open-minded?

    Later y’all. Don’t have too many nightmares Bob.

  187. 187
    TenguPhule says:

    This is a reasonable request.

    No it’s not, BOB.

    It was already proven (the need to do so in and of itself was proof that the racists in the US are too large and need to be thinned to managable numbers) and frankly at this point only racist wingnuts keep trying to prove a black man is not a US citizen.

  188. 188

    Bob is probably taking his morning constitutional.*

    That seems to be where he gets all his big ideas about the Constitution.

    *No, not the walking kind.

  189. 189
    TenguPhule says:

    Arguing with Bill is like arguing with a turnip.

    But you can cook turnips that look at you wrong into a tasty meal.

  190. 190
    tammanycall says:

    The only reason the Orange County Republicans put it up in LA is to piss off the Hollywood libruls. And for once I’m happy Los Angeles is ground zero for Obey and a number of other skater-based graffiti groups. They’ll make short work of it, once they know where it is.

    And you landlocked haters should stop slinging mud at my city.

  191. 191

    My aim is simply to vindicate the Constitution by getting at the truth, whatever its political implications. Many Americans seem to agree with me, so the issue won’t go away until the truth is served.

    Alan Keyes

  192. 192
    TenguPhule says:

    Is there a limit to his stupidity?

    How do you measure infinity?

  193. 193

    Many Americans seem to agree with me

    That phrase just strikes me as the most pathetic thing I ever read in my life.

    In America, you can find people who will agree that Sputniks probably caused the American Civil War.

  194. 194
    TenguPhule says:

    The question is legitimate in my opinion based on the evidence available for public consumption.

    Your question is based on so many “what ifs” that Marvel Comics should sue you for copyright violations.

  195. 195
    SFAW says:

    Annenberg/Ayres(sic)? Ayers was one of three authors of the grant proposal presented to the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, and so now it’s the Annenberg (Ayres) group? Sounds great – if I make a suggestion to Steinbrenner re: how to improve the Yankees, and he adopts it, do I get a share of the profits? (Not that I would send any such suggestion, if for no other reason than to honor Gilliard’s memory.)

    The Birthers will never be convinced that Obama is a US citizen, no matter what evidence is presented. One of Obama’s mom’s friends could come forward with a home movie of the actual birth, with Don Ho singing “Tiny Bubbles” at her bedside (I don’t think they used epidurals in those days), and the OB or midwife wearing a bunch of leis, with a shot of Waiamea Bay surf crashing in the background, and Barack Sr holding a ukulele, and they STILL would come up with some mumbled excuse about how the kerning of the movie is all wrong, etc., and he really wasn’t born in Hawaii.

    So, BOB, cut the bullshit already. You know that no matter what anyone does to prove Obama’s a “natural born” US Citizen, you and your psycho brethren and cistern will never believe it. And then you’ll all start shrieking about “No true Scotsman” as you march into battle.

    Morans.

  196. 196
    Death By Mosquito Truck says:

    BOB’s got me all skittery now. How do we really know Ronald Fucking Reagan was born in Illinois?? Zombie Ronnie could be subverting the Constituiton corpso facto!

  197. 197
    Death By Mosquito Truck says:

    And why the hell is Illinois plural? Inquiring minds want a billboard.

  198. 198
    chuck says:

    Why is anyone responding to BOB as if he was even remotely serious about anything?

  199. 199
    IndieTarheel says:

    Dammit! Not only is the bottom half of the thread all bold, the Pie-n-ate-or broke too. I see Brick Oven Blockhead is still the racist hack he was a month ago…

  200. 200
    Leelee for Obama says:

    Great thread over-all, but I must thank Bill E., dream on and gnomedad. This has been a slightly more stressful day with my Mom and her Alz., and these posts made me laugh out loud spray the monitor screen!!!

  201. 201
    patrick says:

    What do you think the over/under is that Brick Head Bill was equally passionate about Dubya’s TANG records?

  202. 202
    binzinerator says:

    This still strikes me as one of the silliest wingnut endeavors of all time, and I wonder how many people are driving past that and thinking “What birth certificate? Martha, do you know what the hell that is all about?”

    Who funds this shit? People everywhere are worried about their jobs or having their income reduced or are going bankrupt or have already lost their homes — and somehow these fruitcakes — supposedly the one who are so pissed because they’ve been hit so hard by the ‘Obama recession’ — can somehow scrape up enough to rent out a billboard.

    I can hear these crazies explain this to their wives and kids:

    “Well kids I got some bad news and some good news. Bad news is, we have only 30 days to vacate our home before the bank kicks us out, and sorry no new shoes for you Billy and no coat for you Sally. But look up there! See that billboard? The last of our savings paid for that! Kids, you can hold your head up high — no matter if we’re living out of our car or a shelter, you can be proud to be a Real American.”

  203. 203
    Brick Oven Bill says:

    Sorry for the non-response. My ISP stopped working for some reason. Checking in from elsewhere. Wierd.

  204. 204
    Death By Mosquito Truck says:

    @Brick Oven Bill:

    Wierd.

    Is it BOB? Is it just weird or is it the calculated and cunning efforts of government interns- accountable to no one, corrupt to a man?

  205. 205
    Zuzu's Petals says:

    @Dream On:

    Well of course it wouldn’t just be the “leadership of our country” that would be guilty of falsifying documents.

    He knows perfectly well that the Hawaii Dept of Vital Records (see Lori’s comments @ July 22, 2008, 9:36 pm and July 23, 2008, at 3:36 pm) and at least two separate Honolulu newspapers would also have to have been in on the conspiracy … back in 1961.

  206. 206
    Zuzu's Petals says:

    @PeopleAreNoDamnGood:

    And if you want to see some first-rate debunking:

    Obama Conspiracy Theories

  207. 207

    @Brick Oven Bill:

    You mean, your cell called a meeting?

  208. 208

    @Zuzu’s Petals:

    Pretty good stuff.

    I did some serious conspiracy debunkin back in the day. I would characterize most conspirowacko theories as a permutation of this sort of thing:

    When you were younger, you stated that you believed in Santa Claus. Later, you stated that you did not believe in Santa Claus.

    Were you lying then, or are you lying now?

  209. 209
    Ked says:

    Lousy daytime threads. By the time I see them, I’m the last one to post. Then again, I see I missed six hours of spoof troll hell.

    The straight billboard treatment – just the straight question, no links, no identification – is just about as close to the the wingularity as you can get without going over. It’s not impossible for an outsider to interpret on sight, but it’s pretty goddamn inside baseball, and way too loony.

    I mean, as twenty other people in this thread have shown, it’s been totally debunked. Repeatedly. Never was a serious question, ever, except in the minds of the people who really want it to be. Which makes this either evidence of a complete psychotic break from reality, or someone who really doesn’t understand how liberal-baiting is supposed to work.

    That’s a biiiiiiiiiig sign, though.

    This one measures a pharmaceutically assisted 0.98 wingularity masses

  210. 210
    Ked says:

    Oh, and, THE BOLD! THE BOLD!

  211. 211
    Brachiator says:

    @Steeplejack:

    “The wages of sin is death.”

    OK. So, if the wages of sin is death and, like your job is sinning, and you get laid off because the economy is so bad, does this mean that you become an Immortal.

    Because, Obama must be an Immortal like the Highlander, and too, because Oprah called him “The One.”

    He knows perfectly well that the Hawaii Dept of Vital Records (see Lori’s comments @ July 22, 2008, 9:36 pm and July 23, 2008, at 3:36 pm) and at least two separate Honolulu newspapers would also have to have been in on the conspiracy … back in 1961.

    Well, duh! Because, after all, Obama is a master of space and time. He went back into time and placed those birth announcements in the paper. He also made Steve McGarrett the head of Hawaii Five -O.

  212. 212

    @Brachiator:

    He also made Steve McGarrett the head of Hawaii Five -O.

    Finally, it all becomes clear.

  213. 213
    Zuzu's Petals says:

    Oh, and that whole “loony leftist” Fact Check/Annenberg thing?

    First, the Annenberg Fdn does not, as BoB claims, “own” Fact Check. Fact Check is run by the Annenberg Center for Public Policy, which, along with thousands of other entities, receives funds from the foundation (whose founder endorsed and donated to McCain). It has its own board of directors, separate from the center and the foundation.

    Of course Fact Check has never had any problem pointing out Obama’s flaws during the campaign or afterwards.

    As a matter of fact, the organization has such a strong reputation for sticking to the facts that Dick Cheney recommended that viewers of the 2004 VP debate check out the website, and hey…so did Rush Limbaugh.

    And by the way, Obama “submitted” his COLB to the American people right there on his website; Fact Check just held the paper copy up to the camera.

  214. 214
    Wolfdaughter says:

    BOB:

    First, as others have pointed out, the State Dept. quote you keep posting doesn’t apply, since Obama was not born abroad.

    Another problem with your scenario is this: therefore all babies born before 1986, in the United States, to women aged 19 or less, whose fathers are non-U.S. citizens, are not U.S. citizens. Obviously untrue.

  215. 215
    Zuzu's Petals says:

    @Brachiator:

    He went back into time and placed those birth announcements in the paper.

    Not only that, he changed the column heading from “Stuff that anybody can send in about anybody else” to “Health Bureau Statistics.” On every single issue for years before and after.

    Some dude!

  216. 216
    malraux says:

    @SFAW:

    kerning

    Honestly, that’s what I think this is about. When was the last time the wingnut blogs were relevant? Looking at what sort of crap these blogs have tried to hype since then, it almost all seems as though they are trying to recreate the Rathergate incident.

  217. 217
    blondie says:

    Not to take any attention away from BOB or anything … but I just saw the same billboard along I-81 in Pennsylvania on Saturday. So it’s bi-coastal insanity.

  218. 218
    Leelee for Obama says:

    Listen, All. I keep telliing you he’s the Kwisach Sadderach or however it’s spelled. The theory is traveling w/o moving. I actually think sometimes that he does it! Course, I’m extremely sleep-deprived!

  219. 219
    SFAW says:

    When was the last time the wingnut blogs were relevant?

    Maybe when Judge Crater disappeared and they blamed the Lieberals for terminating him with extreme prejudice because he knew Osamabama’s terrible secret?

    Other than that – never.

  220. 220
    JadedOptimist says:

    Aren’t these the same folks who were talking about amending the Constitution to take the whole ‘natural born citizen’ thing OUT so that Ahnold could run for President?

    But now it’s the most important thing in the world? I was about to accuse them of inconsistency, until I realized that they are actually being consistent: What keeps wingnuts in power = Good. Else = Bad.

  221. 221
    Roger the Cabin Boy says:

    What’s the frequency, Kenneth?

  222. 222
    kay says:

    @PaulB:

    Oh, bullshit, Paul.

    Since when is standing a technicality? Since when is “failure to state a claim” a technicality? Since when is jurisdiction a technicality?

    Birthers aren’t losing on “technicalities”. Don’t broadcast their bullshit.

    They aren’t even clearing the ridiculously low “state a claim” bar, and getting into court. That isn’t a technicality. Jurisdiction is part of the hallowed Rule Of Law they’re always blabbing about. That isn’t a technicality. You have to state a claim. They can’t even manage that.

    They’re failing to get into a federal court because they don’t have jack. They have NOTHING. That’s why they keep getting kicked.

  223. 223
    Zuzu's Petals says:

    @kay:

    What you said.

  224. 224
    SFAW says:

    That isn’t a technicality. Jurisdiction is part of the hallowed Rule Of Law they’re always blabbing about. That isn’t a technicality. You have to state a claim.

    Oh, kay, kay, kay .. (shakes head sadly) .. when are you going to learn that, for the wingnuts – birfers and non-birfers alike – it is, and has always been, “Do as I say, not as I do”?

    Or, as Chairman Mao would say, “Let a thousand hypocrisies bloom”.

    It is for times like this that IOKIYAR was coined, you know.

    And so on.

    Also.

  225. 225
    Stephen Wells says:

    Can we get a bunch of billboards up with the words “It’s in Hawai’i, dipshit” on them?

  226. 226

    Since you are all so enlightened, I am sure you will do some research to verify your beliefs.

  227. 227
    SFAW says:

    Can we get a bunch of billboards up with the words “It’s in Hawai’i, dipshit” on them?

    FTW

  228. 228
    SFAW says:

    Since you are all so enlightened, I am sure you will do some research to verify your beliefs.

    We already did, that’s how we became enlightened (and embiggened).

  229. 229
    bb says:

    @truculentandunreliable: He didn’t die at Eisenhower. Get your facts straight.

  230. 230
    Red Graham says:

    The ONLY evidence Obama has of his citizenship is a fairly recent document called a Certification of Live Birth which appears fake. All other school records, passport, etc. are sealed. That is except for his Indonesian school records which show him to be an Indonesian citizen and Moslem named Barry Soetoro. He should be arrested and imprisoned, hanged or deported.

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