I thought we were all Iranians now

After all the crazy purple thumb stuff, it’s a relief to see this from the Obama administration:

“The point is this is not about us,” said one administration official, who has been working on the issue of Iran. “The point here is we will continue to monitor the situation to see how it, in a sense, resolves itself over the coming days. The pressure is on them to demonstrate to the world that this was a legitimate election and that the outcome reflects the will of the Iranian people.”

I’m curious to hear what type of revolution it might be if this all causes some sort of change in the Iranian government. Maybe Pomegranate?






83 replies
  1. 1
    schrodinger's cat says:

    Maybe Pomegranate?

    Kale or may be spinach.

  2. 2
    Comrade Stuck says:

    Maybe Pomegranate?

    Pom juice is great. Otherwise, no clue what this means/

    Maybe dipping thumb in purple Pom juice?

  3. 3
    Ash says:

    What is this crap from Goldfarb?

    The left, which may have reviled Ahmadinejad but was willing to do business with him anyway, seems to have become deeply hostile to any kind of diplomacy that could be seen as legitimizing this election result. The administration hasn’t quite caught up to this reality, offering weak statements about “irregularities” in the voting but no real sign that it will stand up and support the Iranian kids who are pleading for help as they’re beaten in the streets. I suspect it will soon.

    WTF is the US government gonna do about police in Iran beating people?

  4. 4
    Nate says:

    He’s right, it’s not about us. But it can’t hurt to publicly say something in support of democracy in Iran. There’s a real pro-democracy movement going on there, and I don’t see what’s wrong with us showing verbal support as a country. Other foreign leaders have at least spoken out to condemn the violence on protesters.

  5. 5
    Jon H says:

    I’m curious to hear what type of revolution it might be if this all causes some sort of change in the Iranian government. Maybe Pomegranate?

    Depending on how bad it gets in the process, it may be the Kabob Revolution.

  6. 6
    beltane says:

    Pomegranates are very Persian. But since a lot of the action has been in the city of Ispahan (an ancient breed of damask rose ) and at the University of Shiraz, I propose that we call this the Wine and Roses revolution.

    Seriously, I am in awe of these brave young people. And I am grateful we have a president who is not likely to say something dangerously stupid.

  7. 7
    LD50 says:

    I’m curious to hear what type of revolution it might be if this all causes some sort of change in the Iranian government. Maybe Pomegranate?

    Duh! Pistachio!

  8. 8
    GoodNewsForMcCain says:

    Maybe Pomegranate?

    I’m going with either pistacchio or saffron, but probably the former.

  9. 9
    LD50 says:

    WTF is the US government gonna do about police in Iran beating people?

    I imagine Goldfarb would suggest that as a gesture of good faith we can begin by bombing the Natanz nuclear facility.

  10. 10
    Irony Abounds says:

    Asshats like Goldfarb are going to spin this in an anti-Obama way no matter what happens. If the reformers lose out, it will be because Obama did not do enough to support them. If the reformers win, it will be because of Bush’s crusade for democracy. In other words, Obama either is a bumbler or irrelevant to the whole process. That’s their spin, and they will stick with it no matter what.

  11. 11
    DougJ says:

    Remember — Goldberg wrote for the very liberal New Yorker.

  12. 12
    smiley says:

    Maybe Pomegranate?

    I’ve always liked DougJ, but now I realize he’s an asshole. I surely hope that the people of upstate New York don’t stage the Grape Rebellion. He’d be toast. (btw, your stereotypes sucks).

  13. 13
    DougJ says:

    I’ve always liked DougJ, but now I realize he’s an asshole. I surely hope that the people of upstate New York don’t stage the Grape Rebellion. He’d be toast. (btw, your stereotypes sucks).

    I don’t understand this comment at all.

  14. 14
    JenJen says:

    In the meantime, Sully is now linking to this series of tweets from a guy who claims he works for the Iranian government.

    Sully admits he can’t verify the source, but isn’t that the whole problem with taking some of these tweets as gospel? I mean, what’s to stop me (besides having, you know, a conscience) from opening a Twitter account and claiming to be anybody I want to be?

  15. 15
    Jon says:

    Oh goodness gracious Mr. Sullivan.

    Oh, and the president should wear a green tie from now on. Every day. He need say nothing more.

    It’s time for Andrew to take a break, boys and girls.

  16. 16
    Ash says:

    @Jon: LMFAO. Oh god.

    And smiley, I don’t get it? Do pomegranates invoke a negative stereotype of Iran or something? I thought it was just a color? And very tasty!

  17. 17
    TenguPhule says:

    But it can’t hurt to publicly say something in support of democracy in Iran

    Wrong, Nate.

    Read up on our history with Iran.

    Specially, the Shah.

  18. 18
    Paula says:

    Jeezus. Overexcited Americans need to take a deep breath. And STFU. Ahmewhatsijad’s been getting blamed for the state of their economy for a while now and, as it happens, people don’t give a damn about fundamentalism unless it can also provide stable social services. That probably goes double in re the clerics. It has very little do with us.

  19. 19
    lamh31 says:

    This is what Obama just said about Iran:http://www.politico.com/politi.....52009.html

    OBAMA ON IRAN: In his pool spray with Berlusconi, Obama says he doesn’t want to make the United States “the issue,” but speaks out forcefully on the Iranian election and its aftermath…
    “I am deeply troubled by the violence I have been seeing on television. I think the democratic process, free speech, the ability of people to peacefully dissent — all those are universal values and need to be respected. And whenever I see violence perpetrated on people who are peacefully dissenting, and whenever the American people see that, I think they are troubled.”
    “There appears to be a sense of people who were so hopeful and so engaged and so committed to democracy, who now feel betrayed, and I think it’s important that moving forward, whatever investigations that take place are done in a way that does not result in bloodshed, and does not result in people being stifled, in expressing their views.” (6:45 p.m.)

    TO THE IRANIAN PEOPLE: “I would say to them that the world is watching and inspired by their participation, regardless of what the ultimate outcome of the election was. And they should know that the world is watching.” (6:47 p.m.)

    I think he took the right tone with his statement.

  20. 20
    GregB says:

    The Kind Revolution.

    -G

  21. 21
    Notorious P.A.T. says:

    Let’s remember, Obama has things to do other than try to remake Iran. Maybe he should do more, maybe less, but we have a problem or two of our own right now.

  22. 22
    Jon H says:

    @Jon: “Oh, and the president should wear a green tie from now on. Every day. He need say nothing more.”

    Agreed. Apart from being a stupid idea, it’d be like Hugo Chavez wearing an Obama tie throughout 2008.

  23. 23
    jlo says:

    It is obviously the Pistachio Revolution.

  24. 24
    Tank Man says:

    You’re absolutely right, John, but the question isn’t “Is this a Pomegranate Revolution?” yet, because we don’t know if it’s a Revolution or an Awakening. We can’t be premature in collectively deciding these things for the Iranians.

    If it does turns out to be a Revolution, I’m all for christening it the Pomegranate Revolution. There have been so many great, memorably named Revolutions in recent memory and Pomegranate fits right it. The Cedar one, the Rose one. I think there was a White one, too, it might have starred either Southeast Asians or possibly Eastern Europeans, I can’t remember. But it did have a great name, and I’m sure it produced at least one iconic photograph laden with metaphor of a student being shot or beaten with truncheons in a large public square.

    Anyway, if this doesn’t turn out to be a full-on Revolution, and it’s merely an Awakening, I propose calling it the Green Awakening.

    Of course, there’s an off chance that this is just an Uprising. In which case it’s a safe bet to go with something simple, like the June 13 Uprising.

    I hope Time Magazine is working on the cover right now. I’m pulling for the Pomegranate Revolution, it has a certain sizzle.

  25. 25
    The Main Gauche of Mild Reason says:

    After all the crazy purple thumb stuff, it’s a relief to see this from the Obama administration

    On a more worrying note, it seems that Andrew Sullivan is reverting back to his proto-neocon “Ra, Ra, Ra Democracy! Go Revolution!” cheerleading. I know his heart is probably in the right place, but it’s easy to see how this kind of uncritical, emotional attachment can turn into hawkish pro-war cheerleading given sufficient misinformation.

    “Oh, and the president should wear a green tie from now on. Every day. He need say nothing more.”

    Policy recommendation fail.

  26. 26
    Notorious P.A.T. says:

    Here’s something interesting. By which I mean frightening:

    http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2.....up-to.html

  27. 27
    Jon says:

    @Jon H: What makes it even more brain melting is he just spent the whole day talking about how we have to be hands off! And that it’s about them, not us!

    Then again, if you’ve read Sully with any regularity in the last year or two, you can’t be surprised by statements like that, right?

  28. 28
    MNPundit says:

    I think he needs to say something about not using violence to butcher the protesters.

  29. 29
    freelancer says:

    I admire the guy’s enthusiasm (almost childlike) covering this subject. I can’t remember who it was, but another commenter once remarked when Sullivan gets his teeth into something, he doesn’t let go. But at this point, Andy needs a cold shower.

  30. 30
    jaime says:

    Apparently on NoQuarter,

    I can’t help but draw the parallel between our 2008 Democratic primary election results to the Iranian elections

    PUMA are all Iranians now.

  31. 31
    Tank Man says:

    “Oh, and the president should wear a green tie from now on. Every day. He need say nothing more.”

    Nothing screams “I CAME OF AGE IN THE ’80s !!!” more than immediately thinking maudlin, slacktivist symbolism like this means anything. Red AIDS ribbons, white ribbons (that was either mothers with murdered children or breast cancer or both, I can’t remember), another one (yellow?) for victims of drunk driving, the stupid American flag lapel pins, it goes on and on.

    Sully’s dating himself.

  32. 32
    MFA says:

    Pomegranite? No. There is only one appropriate name:

    Avocado!

    As someone who lived through the 70s, there is no other shade of green that will do.

  33. 33

    @MNPundit: You mean like the quote in #19?

  34. 34
    MikeJ says:

    I can’t help but draw the parallel between our 2008 Democratic primary election results to the Iranian elections

    People voted against the nutcase and were told that caucuses, minorities, cities, small states, and states that had ever voted for a republican don’t count.

    As I said yesterday, the idea of a bunch of people in robes picking a president with unlimited secret police powers reminds me a lot more of 2000.

  35. 35
    gopher2b says:

    I think kids and (older) protestors dying as they try to overturn a stolen election and prevent their country from slipping into complete tyranny is funny. Perhaps we can think of other almost clever things to say.

  36. 36

    It’s not about us, and the last thing the Iranian protesters need is for their movement to be cast, in the eye of the Iranian public, as something the Americans are pushing.

    Statements about elections being fair and denouncing violence against the protesters are appropriate, but explicitly backing the “Green” movement would be a huge mistake.

  37. 37
    TenguPhule says:

    I think kids and (older) protestors dying as they try to overturn a stolen election and prevent their country from slipping into complete tyranny is funny.

    If we had to suffer Bush, they have to Suffer Allamahlamadingdong.

  38. 38
    Jon H says:

    “Statements about elections being fair and denouncing violence against the protesters are appropriate, but explicitly backing the “Green” movement would be a huge mistake.”

    It’d be like getting relationship advice from the guy who had an affair with your wife twenty years ago.

  39. 39
    MikeJ says:

    I second gophers call for a moratorium on all humour until every bad thing in the world has been stopped.

    Think of the children!

  40. 40
    freelancer says:

    What you’re doing doesn’t require a staff of hundreds or budgets in the millions. No, what it requires are the most fundamental requirements for journalism: an intense curiosity about the outside world, the unquenchable desire to communicate what you learn, and the willingness to work your ass off to make it all happen. You give a shit, and the MSM doesn’t. It’s that simple.

    And I’m doing it on the end of a pier in Cape Cod surrounded by two beagles and a water-pistol (to control Dusty’s howling).

    Take a breather and dive in, Drew. You need it.

  41. 41
    AnotherBruce says:

    Jon H wins the thread.

  42. 42
    Billy says:

    How about instead of trying to think of a name for someone else’s revolution, you sit back, take a breath, observe, see if there’s even going to be a revolution and then…………………

    ……………..let them name it for themselves.

  43. 43
    Deborah says:

    Nate @4: He could do a lot of harm with such a statement, letting the hardliners paint the protesters as pawns of the United States.

    The opposition says it wants good relations with the rest of the world, including the US. That is 20 miles from wanting to appear to act as the US desires, or orders.

    Plus, everything he says about Iran right now is a promise or a threat. We’ve had the talking tough and following up with no action. (Iraq post 1st gulf war, Georgia last year when McCain et al wanted to go toe to toe.)

    I think the quotes at 19 hit exactly the right tone, throwing all responsibility for what this means back on the Iranians, protester or government, and without following the embarassing cable news networks in claiming one side won and one side lost the election.

  44. 44

    I’d be real surprised if there was an up side to Barack Obama taking some tough stand and a lot of big down sides for it. The neo-cons would really like to forget little things like the Shah and axis of evil and…

    The unfortunate aspect is that our government has to deal with leaders, not the people and at the same time show the people something.

  45. 45
    Calouste says:

    @Jon:

    Time for Sully to take a break, and lay off the high-fructose corn syrup, sugar, caffeine, nicotine, alcohol and what other drugs he uses, legal or illegal. Maybe he should settle for a cup of sugar-free hot chocolate or camomile tea.

  46. 46
    Violet says:

    I hope Obama doesn’t wear a green tie until St. Patty’s day rolls around again. That suggestion by Sully is ridiculous.

    Obama got it pretty much right with his statement. That’s plenty good enough for now.

    Andrew Sullivan can “wear green” on his blog all he wants, but asking the President of the United “We Installed The Shah” States of America to do so? Give me a break.

    Andrew needs to go walk his beagles on the beach for an hour or so.

  47. 47
    Comrade Stuck says:

    And allahpundit is still in his breathless Jihad for Obama to do something.

    You’ll also be pleased to know that, according to no less than the New York Times, Obama didn’t bother holding any meetings or conference calls about this yesterday. Remember: Health care is a “crisis.” This is but a “situation.”

    Far as I know, no Americans are dying in Iran for lack of healthcare.

    This has to be ideological remnants of Bushism of the “with us or agin us” way of dealing with the world.

  48. 48
    The Moar You Know says:

    I just have to say this, and better that I say it in a place where I am relatively anonymous then one where I am not:

    “I thought we were all Iranians now”

    No, the Iranians have the balls to fight a rigged election. We Democrats just bent over, grabbed our cheeks, and took it like Larry Craig in a stall, sans lube, for two straight presidential elections.

    I’ve been reading the news and the Twitters and the updates (mostly over at Sully’s, who is doing a GREAT job) and earlier today just had to go outside and blow off some steam because that’s when I realized just how cowardly and complacent we as Americans have become. When the Iranians had their election stolen, they went out and put their lives on the line, and some of them are getting killed for it right now. When OUR gang of black-robed arbiters installed Bush, we just shrugged and changed the channel.

    As a result, a lot of people died (and are still dying in Iraq and Afghanistan right now), our nation’s been driven into debt, and we have lost any ability to present ourselves as an example of moral authority or decency. We’re just another backwater nation run by religious zealots who torture.

    Sorry, I’m just pissed, and I guess today was when it all hit home, how much we lost under Bush.

  49. 49
    Redshirt says:

    I am happy, truly happy, to say I have the utmost confidence in Obama to handle this situation as well as possible. I could ask for no more, and it is a physical relief for me to be able to trust our American leadership.

    He’s handled it perfectly so far.

    And it is about the Iranians, but there’s some of Obama in there too. He’s inspired the world, and his many careful and considered acts towards the Islamic world so far has provided the ground for new directions. What’s happening in Iran right now is a new direction, hopefully a very good one for the entire world.

  50. 50
    Deborah says:

    I had broccoli raab for dinner, but that isn’t quite the right shade. Plus it connotes “fight for freedom, eat your vegetables.” So I propose the Lily’s Leash Revolution, Lily’s for short. It’s the perfect color.

  51. 51
    JC says:

    It will be called a Green Revolution, in order to brand it as some sort of Islamic version of the Velvet Revolution or the Orange Revolution.

    Hopefully someone in Iran will resist the need to color code their revolution according to Western needs. Maybe they’ll call it “The One Where the Mullahs Came Away Looking a Little Weaker”.

  52. 52
    Comrade Kevin says:

    @Ash:

    And smiley, I don’t get it? Do pomegranates invoke a negative stereotype of Iran or something? I thought it was just a color? And very tasty!

    Pomegranates are native to Iran. That’s it.

  53. 53
    Comrade Jake says:

    @jaime:

    I swear NoQuarter is like a gigantic magnet for stupid.

  54. 54
    Comrade Jake says:

    I suspect @Comrade Stuck:

    I suspect McCain would’ve turned Iran into a parking lot by now.

  55. 55
    Jen R says:

    Twitter reschedules maintenance to accomodate the needs of Iranians.

    Good for them.

  56. 56
    Elie says:

    The Moar You Know @ 48

    Absolutely feel your pain and agree with your sentiments…
    THEY (the Iranians) are the example of bravery to us….

    I do not believe however that Americans are cowardly. We were naive and complacent. in 2001..we hadnt seen anyone fight for something important since the civil rights movement in the 60’s. In that period and in that battle, there were many who were incredibly brave of all colors and stripes, and some young folks lost their lives too..

    So we have it in us — we just got lost.

    I have great hope that we are waking up tho —

  57. 57
    Persian says:

    I don’t know who DougJ is, but John needs to get back on his blog and stop this asshole from posting.

    My relatives are being beaten in Iran and all this piece of shit can come up with are lame jokes.

  58. 58
    anonevent says:

    @TenguPhule: And Venezuela, and Vietnam, and Cuba, and Iraq after the first Gulf War.

  59. 59
    MikeJ says:

    I don’t know who DougJ is, but John needs to get back on his blog and stop this asshole from posting.

    If you don’t know who dougj is you should stfu and go censor your own blog.

  60. 60
    A.Political says:

    Obviously, it will be known forever as the ‘Arugula Revolution’.

  61. 61
    CalD says:

    Last I knew it didn’t actually matter all that much who was president in Iran. It’s been my understanding that real power in the government still rests pretty much entirely in the hands of the ruling religious council and the Revolutionary Guard. They may have kept Ahmadinejad’s on a somewhat longer leash than his recent predecessors but he also hasn’t exactly been much at odds with old guard hardliners on much if anything. I imagine anyone winning the office who was in substantial disagreement with them on anything really important would likely find out very quickly just how limited their authority really is.

  62. 62

    @CalD:

    Last I knew it didn’t actually matter all that much who was president in Iran.

    It matters in some ways more than others. This is the nuance missing from the primary debate over Obama’s remarks on this topic.

    Suffice to say it’s not a big change, but it can ease some issues, and make some discussions simpler. it’s worth having a Iranian President who at least avoids antagonistic behavior, if only to stop giving some in the GOP fuel for their fires.

  63. 63
  64. 64

    Last I knew it didn’t actually matter all that much who was president in Iran.

    Whether it’s important is one of the things being decided in the streets of Tehran, Tabriz, Shiraz, and other places.

  65. 65
    gopher2b says:

    @MikeJ:

    What?!?! That wasn’t what I said at all. When I read “Pomegranate” I was all, like, “no he dit-int.” That’s funny shit, and I love the funny. That kind of funny shouldn’t stop. And its funny on so many levels; it’s like an escalator of funny. It just keeps going up and up without any apparent effort whatsoever.

  66. 66
    pip says:

    MNpundit (lol @ your handle):

    I guess you have felt the same way about Burma all these years, especially last year when monks were getting their heads bashed in, right? You and Sully have stayed on that and have been wearing some color or other, right?
    Iguess it’s unfortunate that the Burmese only had cameras and not twitter and that some Japanese guy died filming what was happening there.

    Honestly I don’t get it.

  67. 67
    Martin says:

    Time for Sully to take a break, and lay off the high-fructose corn syrup, sugar, caffeine, nicotine, alcohol and what other drugs he uses, legal or illegal. Maybe he should settle for a cup of sugar-free hot chocolate or camomile tea.

    But… but… he’s part of something! He’s going to change the world, and he doesn’t need to stop being a lazy douche lounging in the mecca of privilege, either!

  68. 68

    @pip: For one thing, I’m more optimistic about the situation in Iran than I was about the one in Burma. I’m much more confident that the people of Iran will come away with a victory, if not this week, then almost certainly in the next decade. The government isn’t as heavy handed. It had elections, which provided the wedge in the door that’s being used right now; if there hadn’t been an election that Ahmedinajed had to steal, we wouldn’t be talking about this.

    Iran, unbeknownst to most Americans, has fairly liberal sensibilities, a pretty well educated population, and, despite some ethnic minorities, a long history as a unified country. These are big advantages. I feel for the people of Burma, but I think the situation there is so hopeless that it’s too painful to invest much in it.

    Besides, my sixth grade science teacher was an Iranian exile (from the Shah, but she sure as hell didn’t go back after the Revolution). She started a long time interest of mine in Iran. Given that I was in sixth grade during the 1980-81 school year, we spent a good deal of time in class talking about it. I learned very early that Saddam Hussein was not someone you wanted to be rooting for, even if we did hate the Ayatollah.

  69. 69
    demimondian says:

    @Woodrow “asim” Jarvis Hill: Word. It matters and it doesn’t matter.

    What *would* matter would be the President being forced on the mullahs. It’s not clear just how much that would weaken them immediately, but if they can not hold the line here now, then the theocracy’s days are numbered.

  70. 70
    pip says:

    The situation in Burma merits as much or more advocacy as that of Iran. Not to measure worth by deaths, but what happened to the monks in Burma, and the Chinese angle, should have gotten a much bigger rise out of Sully and MNpundit than this Iranian election. Thugs always come out during these sorts of political protests.

    Much of the signage has been in English. Much like Iraq back in the day, that is being done to communicate with Americans. I didn’t buy it then, I don’t buy it now.

    MNpundit can call names all s/he wants. This election and its results are not much different from 2000.

    And it doesn’t really matter how many Iranians you know/knew or when. In this moment, it is their political process. At least they got to vote. The Burmese monks just died and the junta stayed on.

    One last thing, Hugh Hewitt had some person on this evening suggestion regime change in Iran. It’s that war angle that worries me.

  71. 71
    Catfish N. Cod says:

    Gaaah.

    In an effort to get the most up-to-the-minute information possible, I’ve been venturing into the right-wing-o-sphere, something I have virtually stopped doing (funny, it was my main web-home in ’01 and ’02). I came across this bullbunk about how Obama isn’t paying attention and is a coward for not putting the full weight of America behind the protestors — because we don’t want the protestors demonized in the eyes of the regime. The retort being, it seems, that they will be demonized anyway. It is also noted that the Germans condemned the elections, so why can’t we? Clearly this is why Sarah Palin should be in charge today.

    Please.

    The reason we’re not officially backing the protests is not because we don’t want the protestors demonized. Why should we care what Ahmacrazyguy and the hardliners think? They can attach whatever bullbunk descriptors to the protests they want; all that matters is that their power is threatened. We’re not throwing our support because we care what the marginal participants in the protests think. Not the Westernized types who know we’re not going to be trying to re-puppetize the Iranian government; I mean the workaday stiff who is devout and nationalist, but thinks Ahmalphabet screwed both the economy and foreign policy and needs the heave-ho, and damn if a bunch of thugs are going to steal HIS vote.

    When the Day comes that Iran can be something other than a nationalist source of Trouble(TM), J. Random Farsi needs to know that we will be their partner, not someone who will force them to dance jigs at gunpoint. They’ve had that experience once already — remember why there are ayatollahs running the shop in the first place? It wasn’t flouride in the drinking water, folks. THAT is why Obama is being a mouse. If you want someone to blame, blame Ike.

    So I decide to try and explain this to the fools — even if it would probably be a waste of time — only to discover that they have closed the site to further registration of commentors. Well! I knew the right-wing was ceasing to listen to outside voices, but I didn’t expect it to be this literal. What’s next? A loyalty oath and political position quiz before you’re allowed to link to their blog?

  72. 72
    pip says:

    Obama is being a mouse

    I for one am glad the comments are closed if you were going to say that.

    FYI you missed your opportunity to register when Ed switched to Hot Air.

  73. 73
    wilfred says:

    Pomegranates are almost a national symbol: one is on the over of “A World Between” a recent antohology of Persian-American writing – “a fat, sub-burned king with a tiny stem crown’ Doug showed some cultural awareness.

    It’s a bit cheeky for us to lecture the Iranians, many of whom are already suspecting some fifth column agitation in these street protests, considering we have invaded 2 of the countries neighbors and meddle constantly in everyone’s affairs. Legitimacy my ass.

    If this is going to be a revolution – let it happen. Thirty years ago it was incredibly more difficult but that revolution succeeded because it was the genuine wish of a great majority of people. That’s how revolution works. Not by Twitter.

    Iran has been one of the few voices against incipient American imperialism and gangsterism. Replacing the current leadership (fat chance) with a stooge like Mousavi will simply radicalize those still committed to the Islamic Revolution – a great deal more than most commenters seem willing to imagine.

    Thirsty years ago, Ahdmedinijad was one of the students who had the balls to storm the American Embassy. When today’s twittererers storm the Ministries, they’ll start their own revolution. Until then, the dogs bark but the caravan passes on.

  74. 74
    Brachiator says:

    I’m curious to hear what type of revolution it might be if this all causes some sort of change in the Iranian government. Maybe Pomegranate?

    Yes, because God knows the Iranian protests have little meaning except that it provides bloggers here with snark material.

    Here’s a knee slapper courtesy of BBC News (Bypassing Iran’s firewalls)

    Golrokh, an Iranian student in the Netherlands told the BBC news website she had become the main news source for some of her friends in Tehran, who had “no media of their own. Nobody can trust each other because they are not connected”.

    Tweets revealed some of people’s fears. A few hours ahead of the big rally in Tehran, Change_for_Iran tweeted: “There are now rumours of Mousavi’s site being hacked and the whole rally is IRG’s [Iranian Revolutionary Guards] trap. Gun placements at Azadi Square confirmed”.

    A few minutes later he signed off: “It’s worth taking the risk, we’re going.”

  75. 75

    @wilfred: Wow. This is quite a change from yesterday, when you were accusing the protesters of being puppets of their imperialist masters.

  76. 76
    wilfred says:

    @J. Michael Neal:

    Many of them are – the proof, as they say, will be in the pudding. if they’ve got the guts to fight for what they believe in, the way the people who fought against the Shah did, then they’ll win. Simple.

    I’m a Jeffersonian in these things. I don’t believe one generation owes anything to its predecessors – the living shouldn’t be beholden to the dead. If the young people of Iran want to throw the Mullahs out, they have a roadmap – the one used 30 years ago. if they do, I hope they don’t turn into the political-religio heirs of the Shah-in Shah – but if they did they’d face a coutner-revolution soon enough.

    I also don’t subscribe to the framing that’s going on about FREEDOM, etc., etc. If these students have the guts their fathers had, they’ll win. If not, fuck them – twitter away.

  77. 77
    Calouste says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    we have lost any ability to present ourselves as an example of moral authority or decency.

    America lost that ability long ago. Depending on which part of the world, it was rigging the Greek elections in the late 1940s, Iran 1953, Vietnam, Chile 1973, Iran/Contra, Central American death squads, proxy wars in Angola, propping up corrupt autocracies througout the Middle East, etc, etc. You name it, America has done it.

  78. 78
    Brachiator says:

    @Calouste:

    America lost that ability long ago. Depending on which part of the world, it was rigging the Greek elections in the late 1940s, Iran 1953, Vietnam, Chile 1973, Iran/Contra, Central American death squads, proxy wars in Angola, propping up corrupt autocracies througout the Middle East, etc, etc. You name it, America has done it.

    Yep. Guilty. You left out the Dominican Republic (1965) and Haiti.

    By this logic, we should impeach Obama and install McCain in the presidency.

    We have indeed lost any ability to present ourselves as an example of moral authority or decency.

    Why should we try to do any better in the future?

  79. 79
    bob h says:

    I look at the Iranian Basij, and think that this is where the Republicans will go if they have to.

  80. 80
    bago says:

    Just for my sanity, can we all agree that an IPA issue involves beer, and IP masking means the employment of a proxy. People in iran are looking for non-iranian IP’s to proxy their traffic through so that they won’t be caught up in the filter the national firewall has in place. NAT for countries.

  81. 81

    .
    No WAY we’re Iranians!

    They have BALLS!

    We’d never go out into the streets, en masse, nationwide, and pull a general strike, even under gunfire. NEVER!

    2000? 2004? Nada! We don’t believe in democracy like they do. We should ask them for lessons.

    Here they are in action.

    And here we are: Inaction.
    .

  82. 82
    TenguPhule says:

    Why should we try to do any better in the future?

    Doing better means not commiting the same mistakes all over again.

    You’re making BOB look intelligent by comparison at this rate.

  83. 83
    TenguPhule says:

    I’m a Jeffersonian in these things. I don’t believe one generation owes anything to its predecessors – the living shouldn’t be beholden to the dead.

    I guess this means wilfred will urge the Palestinians to stop continuing fights started by the dead….nah.

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