Manichean Morans

I’m not sure what happened to every one in the Republican party/conservative movement, but they seem to have deeply internalized only one lesson from the Bush years- you are either with us or against us. How else to explain this from Allahpundit in reaction to the news that right-wing extremist von Brunn may have also targeted the Weekly Standard:

Weird, huh? What possible grievance could a Jew-hating 9/11 Truther who ranted about Bill O’Reilly and “neocons” have against a magazine owned by Rupert Murdoch and edited by Bill Kristol? Maybe he detected a leftward drift in the Standard’s editorial slant lately? You know how irascible those “right-wingers” can be, especially when they’re fed a steady diet of Fox News. Which, um, Von Brunn hated.

I swear to God I can’t deal with this stupidity anymore, although I guess this was the inevitable result of a party that spent the last couple of decades pretending that voting for a Democrat was the same as firebombing a lab with the Animal Liberation Front. When the DHS report came out, most of us could not believe that many in the GOP chose to conflate right-wing extremism, a historical reality, with movement conservatism and mainstream Republicanism. When folks were hollering “They are smearing all conservatives,” most of us were wondering how anyone could possibly be that damned stupid. Yes, there are some out there on “teh left” who will conflate the two for their own political purposes, and it is undeniable that Republicans themselves have catered to the far right for electoral reasons (see also, Southern Strategy), but most of us out there recognize the difference between Republicanism, conservatism, and right-wing extremist. I’m sorry Allah can’t figure out the distinctions, but I’m actually really curious why he and Ed would continue to self-identify with Repubicans and conservatives if they think it is the same thing as right-wing extremism.

Allah moves on:

Although even if he is, I think Kathy Shaidle’s discovery of which politician’s message boards he’s been frequenting is more revealing of Von Brunn’s politics than whatever his registration might be…

I’m not going to link to the execrable Shaidle, but she thinks von Brunn might be linked to the Liberty Lobby, which was purged from the conservative movement in the 70’s. Why Allah thinks this supports his case is beyond me, because they were not purged from the conservative movement for being liberals, they were purged because they were right wing extremists dabbling in Neo-nazism and white supremacy.

So to answer your question, Allahpundit, the reason a right-wing extremist might have targeted a neo-conservative magazine with very pro-Israel positions and strong connections to AIPAC and prominent Jewish people, is because right-wing extremists have historically been anti-Semitic. This isn’t news. This isn’t a shocking development. It is just history. Deal with it. In fact, there are left-wing extremists who ALSO have ties to anti-Semitism. Why is it that only Charles Johnson seems to have figured this out? You remember him, don’t you, Allah?

This is so damned tiresome, although I’m really looking forward to listening to the inevitable attempts to try to pretend that von Brunn was liberal. You just know that is next.

At any rate, just so we are clear. When the media talks about right-wing extremism, they aren’t talking about Tom Coburn voting “no” on the stimulus. They aren’t talking about you, with your mayonnaise sandwich in your Ford pickup truck with a gunrack and a McCain/Palin decal next to the “JESUS IS MY COPILOT” vanity plate. They aren’t talking about Rich Lowry and Jonah Goldberg cheerleading the Republican cause du jour from their combat keyboards at the NRO. They aren’t even talking about my dad, a lifelong conservative, a lifelong Republican, a weekly churchgoer and vehement opponent of abortion and McCain voter.

They are talking about people dedicated to committing acts of violence and terror who are operating from groups that are historically viewed as right-wing extremist fronts. Quit conflating the two, and for christ sakes help us stop these idiots from shooting more people. When you play these damned games, you provide cover for these fringe lunatics. Stop attacking the DHS for trying to do their job (and I say this as someone who finds the whole idea of the DHS creepy). If anything, the fact that Fox and the Weekly Standard were targeted should make you realize that the lunatic right-wing extremists the DHS report was talking about don’t understand the difference between Democrat and Republican.

I really need to stop reading Hot Air. I’m not sure how or when it happened, but these guys became crazier than the NRO.

*** Update ***

It all makes sense now. Limbaugh gave his marching orders, so we are just watching the puke funnel in action. The Duck of Minerva:

I find it pretty hard to blame typical right-wing bloggers and message-board posters for the actions of an octogenarian neo-Nazi, or even the murder of an abortion doctor.

But they should recognize this strategy is a total loser. For example, arguing that a racist couldn’t be right-wing because right-wingers oppose Affirmative Action just makes you look like an idiot. No one outside the bubble is buying it. In fact, we’re in “don’t think of an elephant” territory here: the more they protest, the more the rest of us think about the possible connections.

Crazy people.

*** Update #2 ***

Clearly a man of the left:

Only days before he allegedly shot and killed a security guard at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum, James von Brunn transferred the domain name of his racist website to a man in Michigan. Records show that von Brunn, 88, created holywesternempire.com in October 2000, and that Steve Reimink of West Olive, Mich., acquired the domain name around June 1 of this year. The website was designated a hate website by the Southern Poverty Law Center in 2003.

Reimink’s E-mail address, “steveo1488@hotmail.com” includes the symbolic number 1488. In white supremacist circles, 14 refers to the very popular 14-word slogan coined by the late neo-Nazi David Lane: “We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children.” The letter H is the eighth letter in the alphabet, and 88 often stands for “Heil Hitler.” Reimink’s cell phone was not accepting messages, and he did not respond to an E-mail request for comment.

***

Von Brunn is said by police to have entered the Holocaust Museum Wednesday afternoon, where he shot the security guard, and then was shot and critically wounded by other guards. Police say they found a notebook in von Brunn’s car with a list of possible other targets, including the White House, the U.S. Capitol, the National Cathedral and The Washington Post. According to myfoxdc.com, witnesses said he was wearing a confederate soldier’s cap and a long coat, which he may have worn to conceal what police describe as an early-1900s rifle.

***

Conservatives were all talk and no action, according to von Brunn. On his website he complained, “The American Right-wing with few exceptions is totally Pacifist. The [right wing] does NOTHING BUT TALK. MORAL: America dies for want of men.”

Just another latte-sipping liberal out shooting blacks and jews in his confederate soldier cap and duster. Just like Rush said. I bet he drove a Prius.

108 replies
  1. 1
    Jon says:

    The fatman is way ahead of you.

  2. 2
    The Other Steve says:

    Clearly you have brainwashed by the Jewish controlled media.

  3. 3
    cleek says:

    odd how those Freepers loved von Brunn’s ideas, back in the day. i guess that was before they learned he was a lefty.

    if they’d only bothered reading any of his pieces that Mother Jones and Harpers picked up, they’d have know all about Brunn’s leftist idealism.

  4. 4

    You underestimated Kathy Shaidle. She began the “von Brunn is actually a liberal” crusade yesterday.

  5. 5
    Comrade Stuck says:

    We often deride republicans for stupidity and narrow mindedness, but they understand power very well, at least what it takes to achieve it. and they have done pretty well the past 4 decades in getting themselves elected, which in this country is how to get the power you crave.

    Right now, and really since 2006, the premise for everything they think and do is how to get back the electoral mojo, and they are aware enough to realize the “conservative movement” that was carefully constructed with all sorts of deceptive language and posturing, is now a dead duck electorally.

    I expect every morning when they wake and the sneaky wheels start to turn on how to fool people, is now supplanted quickly with a “we are so fucked” thought. Nothing works like it did and they spend the rest of the day lurching from one angle to play, to the next. And by sundown, they become walking contradictions and ever more hypocritical and idiotic.

    And tomorrow, it starts all over again, and the rest of us get to rummage through all the spoofable wreckage left in the wake. I’m going to enjoy it while it lasts. Pass that P-corn.

  6. 6
    blogenfreude says:

    Here John – why don’t you watch O’Reilly wonder aloud why supporters of Dr. Tiller prefer to remain anonymous rather then show their faces. That should bring your blood pressure right down.

  7. 7
    Allan says:

    IEveryone really needs to stop reading Hot Air.

    Fixed.

  8. 8
    Joshua Norton says:

    They don’t actually KNOW why he had Weekly Standard’s address. Wingnuttia is just doing their usual 1+ 1 = socialist fascism.

    Everything is teh libruls fault. Even when it ain’t.

  9. 9
    Ash says:

    So to answer your question, Allahpundit, the reason a right-wing extremist might have targeted a neo-conservative magazine with very pro-Israel positions and strong connections to AIPAC and prominent Jewish people, is because right-wing extremists have historically been anti-Semitic.

    It’s odd how the mainstream conservatives these days seem to forget so much of their own history. Old-school righties were always anti-semitic. It’s just that the new-school ones hate Muslims more, and since Muslims all obviously hate Jews, they’re the new friends of conservatives.

    Very odd web they weave.

  10. 10
    demkat620 says:

    I really don’t think we are going to survive this level of stupidity. How does any society survive when 27% of the population is stark, raving mad?

    Short of building a “B” ark, I don’t know what to do. My fear is this will not stop until some Oklahoma City level violence happens.

    This is loony.

  11. 11
    Belvoir says:

    And yes, they are already claiming he was a liberal. I too find this sort of pretzel logic exasperating, and probably by tonight the meme will have made its way to FOX in a chyron, and I shall need a new gasket.

    And what’s worse- from what I’ve been reading in comments all over, the skull-fuggingly ahistorical idea of Blimpie’s enthusiast Jonah Goldberg, that the Nazis were actually liberals, is everywhere today. I really do wonder about this country when such idiocy is championed.

  12. 12
    Jon H says:

    Hal Turner turned himself in today on charges of threatening a Connecticut state legislator.

  13. 13
    r€nato says:

    well, not to say ‘i told ya so’, but, well…

    … i’m finally old enough to have seen it all. This is where the right has been heading all along, since the Nixon years.

  14. 14
    dmsilev says:

    @demkat620:

    Short of building a “B” ark, I don’t know what to do. My fear is this will not stop until some Oklahoma City level violence happens.

    Unfortunately, even the actual Oklahoma City bombing, perpetrated by an actual right-wing extremist, didn’t do much to tamp things down. It’s not like the extremists shriveled up and vanished after that; they’re still around over a decade later.

    I wish I knew an answer.

    -dms

  15. 15
    Scott says:

    I would argue that anyone who makes the claim that Von Brunn is a liberal is making a case that they themselves are right-wing extremists. They’re attempting to expel an inconvenient member from their side of the fence to keep the rest of the world from looking too carefully at the rest of them.

    In other words, when Allahpundit and Shaidle say Von Brunn is a Democrat, the rest of the world — which understands very well that white supremacist = right-wing extremist — hears AP and Shaidle say “Please don’t go sniffing around the shed where I keep my fertilizer and diesel fuel.”

  16. 16
    blogenfreude says:

    @Jon H: Booking photo here. He looks thrilled.

  17. 17
    Gregory says:

    @Comrade Stuck:

    I expect every morning when they wake and the sneaky wheels start to turn on how to fool people, is now supplanted quickly with a “we are so fucked” thought.

    I had the same thought every time the McCain campaign babbled about “winning the news cycle” while Obama calmly went about winning the election.

  18. 18
    Cat Lady says:

    Anyone heard Pat Buchanan’s take on this yet? This is all right up his alley.

  19. 19
    demkat620 says:

    @dmsilev: I should have been more clear, I meant the media making this kind of crap, the stuff that Limbaugh and Hannity spew everyday, fashionable.

    Its just an opinion. Its just entertainment. Its harmless. No its not. Its the precursor to Radio Rwanda.

    And no, I do not advocate silencing them. But the news media doesn’t have to amplify it.

  20. 20
    Scott says:

    Unfortunately, even the actual Oklahoma City bombing, perpetrated by an actual right-wing extremist, didn’t do much to tamp things down. It’s not like the extremists shriveled up and vanished after that; they’re still around over a decade later.

    What I remember is that the extremists did shrivel up. The OKC bombing was, for the rest of the country, the 20-ton steel girder that broke the camel’s back. People were MAD, and the militias and patriot movement ran for the hills. Of course, Clinton didn’t do what he should have and pursued McVeigh’s numerous accomplices — that gave them the opportunity to rebuild, rebrand, and return.

    If the wingnuts go too far again, I would like to think that they won’t be able to get off so lightly again. Oklahoma City is well remembered, and there will be a lot more people willing to make the logical leap that the way to prevent future terrorism is to stick the terrorists and the terrorists’ supporters in prison.

  21. 21
    Brick Oven Bill says:

    Does closely tailgating a girl in a Prius with one of those ‘Coexist’ bumper stickers around the shopping mall parking lot in a pickup truck count as right wing extremism?

    Just asking.

  22. 22
    JGabriel says:

    John Cole @ Top:

    … I guess this was the inevitable result of a party that spent the last couple of decades pretending that voting for a Democrat was the same as firebombing a lab with the Animal Liberation Front flying a plane into the World Trade Center.

    Let’s face it, accusing Democrats of supporting eco-terrorism was one of the more benign, and less frequent compared to “treason”, charges from the right during the Bush years.

    .

  23. 23
    bago says:

    Malkin and RedState are already there, man. The redState one is already looking for his Kos account. I shit you not.

  24. 24
    Tonal Crow says:

    @Belvoir:

    And what’s worse- from what I’ve been reading in comments all over, the skull-fuggingly ahistorical idea of Blimpie’s enthusiast Jonah Goldberg, that the Nazis were actually liberals, is everywhere today.

    Well, as the morans are fond of bleating, “Nazism is National Şoc ialism”, so QED you libtard!”

    I really do wonder about this country when such idiocy is championed.

    Me too. But, on a deeper level, it is not idiocy at all. It is part of an all-out push to regain power. And lies — the more outrageous the better — have always been the best tools for amassing power.

  25. 25
    bloodstar says:

    And to think at one point I thought LittleGreenFootballs were a bunch of nutcases, but really, I’m kinda impressed by them lately, to the point I keep going over and not being struck dumb by stupidity in the first 5 minutes.

    NRO, Hot Air? Really, they can fall down a hole as far as I’m concerned. At least I can visit TheDailyBeast and LGF without feeling like I could catch something terminally insane.

  26. 26
    Sour Kraut says:

    Short of building a “B” ark, I don’t know what to do.

    Wear a surgical mask and pray for dirty telephones?

    My fear is this will not stop until some Oklahoma City level violence happens.

    If you recall, it didn’t even stop then. When Clinton even suggested that right-wing hate radio and antigovernment conspiracy-mongering had anything to do with McVeigh’s act of violence, Rush, Newt, et al were outraged that anyone would dare say such a thing. And our idiot media played along.

    Pleasant dreams, everyone.

  27. 27
    Paul L. says:

    At any rate, just so we are clear. When the media talks out right-wing extremism, hey aren’t talking about …

    BS, I remember hearing Nanci Pelosi along with various Democrat and Progressive politicians and talking head calling anyone who disagrees with them a Right wing extremist.

    John Kerry opened a crucial week in his bid for the White House yesterday with a broadside against George Bush on one of the most emotive issues of the campaign, saying the President had jettisoned science for “extreme right-wing ideology” by curbing federal funding on stem cell research.

    You now will just dismiss that history as rhetoric.

  28. 28
    Comrade Stuck says:

    They are talking about people dedicated committing acts of violence and terror, operating from groups that are historically viewed as right-wing extremist fronts. Quit conflating the two,

    I think there is a third player in the equation, that is often murky and even obtuse, that sometimes does include so called mainstream repubs. They are people like Bachmann, O’reilly, Limbaugh etc…and any number of wingers who use extreme terms in describing dems and Obama and what is happening under their leadership. I wonder if their nutty talk doesn’t give the last needed legitimacy for a violent nut to make a decision.

  29. 29

    Freepers are liberuls? Who knew.

    Don’t let it bother you John. Just hold your nose when you go to those sites. Otherwise you’ll be knocked out by the stink of fear sweat that only someone on the pork rind, Mountani Dew and Cheetos diet can produce.

  30. 30
    Tsulagi says:

    @Brick Oven Bill:
    Only if you have a filled gun rack in your pickup and your bumpersticker reads “Honk if you don’t love Hitler.”

  31. 31
    ** Atanarjuat ** says:

    Mr. Cole, I think you meant “gunrack” and not “gunruck,” but that’s besides the point.

    Your frustration and disbelief is shared by me as well. Spot-on post, definitely.

    -A

  32. 32
    jl says:

    People who start shooting or blowing up symbolic places, on their own general principles, may well be nutcases. That is true on the extreme right. I think it is also true of the extreme left. I think people who believe that an appropriate response to global warming or pollution is to fire bomb a suburban construction site may also very well be nutcases.

    So, would it be so surprising that some one who may well be nuts does not think like most people do?

    Is that what has this Allahpundit so puzzled? Allahpundit is puzzled because a probable nutcase thinks in strange ways?

    If so, this is a case of stupid (Allahpundit) trying to figure out crazy (museum shooter).

    Cole shouldn’t waste his time on this.

  33. 33
    Scott says:

    Tsulagi, how did you know what Bill’s bumper sticker says?

  34. 34
    Adam says:

    This is so damned tiresome, although I’m really looking forward to listening to the inevitable attempts to try to pretend that von Brunn was liberal. You just know that is next.

    Isn’t that what Allahpundit’s doing, or did I misread it?

  35. 35
    Brick Oven Bill says:

    I’ve been thinking about getting one of those front license-plates that says ‘Got God?’.

    That should do it.

  36. 36
    calipygian says:

    You people don’t read NRO carefully enough. They’ve spent the last couple of days painting the BNP as being victimized by the real fascists, the liberals shouting them down and not letting those poor BNP activists get their message out.

  37. 37
    demkat620 says:

    Jeebus, three trolls in one thread? I think we’ve hit tilt.

  38. 38
    Charon says:

    Short of building a “B” ark, I don’t know what to do.

    It’s always worth remembering the second half of the story when ideas like this come to mind. Sending off the “B” ark ended up destroying that society.

    I realize that this was mostly snark but as right-wing outrages increase, its important for those of us on the left not to fall into some of the same kinds of vaguely eliminationist talk that are now so prevalent on the right.

    P.S. — As I reread this I realize that it comes off as concern trolling, but I can’t seem to find a way to make what feels like a valid point in another fashion. Constructive criticism would be most welcome.

  39. 39
    gex says:

    The only reason the modern right is okay with Jews (excepting the Jewish ones of course) is because they are rooting for the end of times. They may no longer be openly anti-Semitic, but this is not the same as no longer having a problem with Jewish people. And, as someone said above, they hate Muslims more.

  40. 40
    binzinerator says:

    When the DHS report came out, most of us could not believe that many in the GOP chose to conflate right-wing extremism, a historical reality, with movement conservatism and mainstream Republicanism.

    Maybe we should, or rather more than we do now. The GOP obviously does. I think they know how much influence the fringe-right has gained on movement conservatism — it generates a lot of their money and activism. (Cue Rush’s dittoheads jamming a congress critter’s switchboard and inbox with nastygrams — or with money) IOW, they know who’s been buttering the movement conservative bread.

    I’m being serious. Dave Neiwert’s been writing about how ideas of the radical fringe-right have gone mainstream right. From the Amazon review of Neiwert’s book The Eliminationists:

    Indeed, one of the more disturbing elements in what we are currently witnessing on the right is the “mainstreaming” and normalizing of extremist talk through “patriotic” transmitters. Neiwert explains:
    [paragraph break]
    “Transmitters” of fringe ideas into the mainstream have two audiences. The first (and by far the largest) is made up of the many millions of ordinary mainstream conservatives who tune in and log on to the Right’s army of media talking heads and movement leaders. The second includes their xenophobic counterparts on the far Right, where the memes come from in the first place. For the latter, these transmissions signal that their formerly unacceptable beliefs are gaining acceptance; they hear these transmissions as an invitation for them to move into the mainstream without having to change their views. The former hears them as an invitation to think more like the latter without shame.

    Right-wing extremism has become part of movement conservatism and mainstream republicanism.

  41. 41
    Leelee for Obama says:

    @dmsilev: This was my thought exactly. My sister lives outside OKC and knew some of the victims. Even after that disaster, the media couldn’t bring themselves to point out how really dangerous these guys were. Maybe it’s the numbers? OKC-168, 9/11-3000. Maybe it’s the skin color? White v. Brown. I have lost the ability to think about these things lately, hence my absence from here.

    I don’t think major operations would change much, but it’s possible that they may wind up with a self-fulfilling prophecy. If these things continue happeneing, the government may very well come for their guns.

    God help us all….and I’m an agnostic.

  42. 42
    Balconesfault says:

    @Brick Oven Bill:

    Does closely tailgating a girl in a Prius with one of those ‘Coexist’ bumper stickers around the shopping mall parking lot in a pickup truck count as right wing extremism?

    It does if you’re actually going out of your way to do it. If you’re just trying to get out of the parking lot faster, and you’re an impatient asshole … it just means you’re an impatient asshole.

  43. 43
    binzinerator says:

    @Brick Oven Bill:

    Does closely tailgating a girl in a Prius with one of those ‘Coexist’ bumper stickers around the shopping mall parking lot in a pickup truck count as right wing extremism?

    No that’s just being a creepy asshole with underlying anger and control issues who likes to threaten and intimidate certain people.

    All such assholes are not necessarily right wing extremists, but certainly all right wing extremists are such assholes.

  44. 44
    Batocchio says:

    I’m not sure how or when it happened, but these guys became crazier than the NRO.

    Didn’t you get that email? They had a contest.

  45. 45

    They aren’t even talking about my dad, a lifelong conservative, a lifelong Republican, a weekly churchgoer and vehement opponent of abortion and McCain voter.

    Who this blog was happily conflating with such extremists a mere few posts ago as “womb bigots”.

  46. 46
    Martin says:

    Does closely tailgating a girl in a Prius with one of those ‘Coexist’ bumper stickers around the shopping mall parking lot in a pickup truck count as right wing extremism?

    It depends entirely on how hairy her armpits are.

  47. 47

    Hal Turner turned himself in today on charges of threatening a Connecticut state legislator.

    Did he do a barrel roll?

  48. 48
    J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford says:

    @Brick Oven Bill:

    Does closely tailgating a girl in a Prius with one of those ‘Coexist’ bumper stickers around the shopping mall parking lot in a pickup truck count as right wing extremism?
    Just asking.

    No Bill, that’s called stalking.

  49. 49
    Joshua Norton says:

    No Bill, that’s called stalking.

    If it wasn’t for stalking, he wouldn’t have any kind of social life at all.

  50. 50
    Zuzu's Petals says:

    To quote the great Anne Laurie:

    Y’know, guys… much as I’m in favor of shelter adoptions and wildlife preservation, I gotta remind you: If you keep feeding the fvcking trolls, you’ll never get them out from under the porch. And unlike most small vermin, they always shit where they eat.

    (No, not BoB)

  51. 51
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @Paul L.:

    John Kerry opened a crucial week in his bid for the White House yesterday with a broadside against George Bush on one of the most emotive issues of the campaign, saying the President had jettisoned science for “extreme right-wing ideology” by curbing federal funding on stem cell research.

    Are you going to claim that Bush’s stance on stem-cell research was not influenced in any way by right-wing extremist ideology? Are you really?

  52. 52
    Notorious P.A.T. says:

    This is where the right has been heading all along, since the Nixon years.

    G Gordon Liddy came this close to assassinating a reporter and blowing up a think-tank. Reagan kicked off his campaign at a location where civil rights workers were murdered–and said nothing against that murder. W took the White House by staging a riot at a Florida courthouse.

    And they have the nerve to be upset that people would equate them with dangerous extremists.

  53. 53

    @Notorious P.A.T.:

    OK, so now you ARE conflating them. Just checking.

  54. 54
    Zuzu's Petals says:

    @bloodstar:

    I was going to say the same about LGF, and then I noticed a rather nutty post about Israel.

  55. 55
    J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford says:

    @Comrade Stuck:

    “They are people like Bachmann, O’reilly, Limbaugh etc…and any number of wingers who use extreme terms in describing dems and Obama and what is happening under their leadership.”

    Is it no surprise that we’ve seen a rise in the extreme rhetoric as Newt Gingrich has returned to a leadership position in the Republican Party?

  56. 56
    Notorious P.A.T. says:

    You now will just dismiss that history as rhetoric.

    Oooh! John Kerry said Bush had given in to extreme rhetoric! That is exactly the same as saying Bush is a dangerous extremist. . . in Bizarro World.

  57. 57
    Notorious P.A.T. says:

    I think people who believe that an appropriate response to global warming or pollution is to fire bomb a suburban construction site may also very well be nutcases.

    @gex:

    Well said about Republicans and Jews.
    Sure. But there is a huuuuuuge difference between crippling a piece of machinery or bombing an empty lab, and taking a gun downtown and shooting people.

  58. 58
    TenguPhule says:

    But there is a huuuuuuge difference between crippling a piece of machinery or bombing an empty lab, and taking a gun downtown and shooting people.

    They’re both criminals, but one has higher priority then the other.

  59. 59
    Notorious P.A.T. says:

    Who this blog was happily conflating with such extremists a mere few posts ago as “womb bigots”.

    Bullshit! That thread was about *people who protest and harrass at abortion clinics*. Don’t be foolish.

    OK, so now you ARE conflating them. Just checking.

    “Waaah! Waaah! We welcomed Gordon “Shoot ‘Em In the Head” Liddy back to the fold with open arms, and now people think we are welcoming to violent nutjobs! ! !”

  60. 60
    Zuzu's Petals says:

    @Notorious P.A.T.:

    You realize you’re trying to reason with a troll?

  61. 61
    Dave Herman says:

    I’m really looking forward to listening to the inevitable attempts to try to pretend that von Brunn was liberal. You just know that is next.

    They already are, man, they already are.

  62. 62

    @Notorious P.A.T.:

    That is exactly the same as saying Bush is a dangerous extremist

    Which, of course, you already have.

    W took the White House by staging a riot at a Florida courthouse.

    Next:

    Bullshit! That thread was about people who protest and harrass at abortion clinics.

    Oh no, it was pretty clearly about those who oppose abortion as a whole, with a strong dose of bash the Christians and bash the Republicans thrown in.

    “Waaah! Waaah! We welcomed Gordon “Shoot ‘Em In the Head” Liddy back to the fold with open arms, and now people think we are welcoming to violent nutjobs! ! !”

    And again; they say they’re not conflating, then they go right ahead and do it.

    Sort of like how Obama was bloviating about anti-Semitism yesterday while the living example of how Obama was all for it for over twenty years was speaking right next door.

  63. 63
    jl says:

    I made the comparison between ecoterrorist firebombers who damaged property and rightwing hate group terrorists who shoot people on the level of both being nutcases. I did not intend to make any comment at all about whether there was a moral equivalence or not.

    I think that is fair. I think you are nut if you think firebombing a laboratory or suburban construction site will accomplish anything. Same for someone who walks into a museum about a group you don’t like and shoots people. Thinking that will accomplish anything is crazy and nuts.

    That is all I said.

  64. 64
    Comrade Stuck says:

    @North Dallas Thirty:

    Oh no, it was pretty clearly about those who oppose abortion as a whole, with a strong dose of bash the Christians and bash the Republicans thrown in.

    Pace yourself ND Thirty. Seven years and seven months to save America/ It takes that long to break a Unicorn, you know.

  65. 65
    Mnemosyne says:

    Anyone else think that the reason conservatives started whining about Bill Ayers was because they knew at least some of their guys were going to snap after the election and they wanted to have a convenient “But leftists blow things up too!” scapegoat?

  66. 66
    WereBear says:

    They supped with the Devil… and used the short spoon.

    The recent book about Goldwater, which I highly recommend, shows how their Movement scooped up the Birchers and other right wing extremists because of their enthusiasm and money; and because they needed the votes.

    And they’re not going away.

  67. 67
    Elie says:

    Binzinator @# 40

    “Right-wing extremism has become part of movement conservatism and mainstream republicanism.”

    I totally agree. Their crazy obtuseness to facts, their inability to adapt their ideas, to adjust and learn is emblematic of a kind of psychological tribalism. It is hopefully transient, but presents a true danger to a diverse society such as ours. That they have been given “cover” by enough of the mainstream to allow them to act on their various impulses, is scary and you wonder how long it will take the so called mainstreamers to get the danger.

    I dont want to be crazy about this, but I am concerned. Hoping however that things will settle down over time — that maybe they are just scared right now. Let us all hope so.

  68. 68
    daryljfontaine says:

    Shorter This Thread:

    Repetitive fucking moron trolls are repetitive fucking morons.

    D

  69. 69
    steve s says:

    Anyone else think that the reason conservatives started whining about Bill Ayers was because they knew at least some of their guys were going to snap after the election and they wanted to have a convenient “But leftists blow things up too!” scapegoat?

    Having seen the conservative arguments on matters historical, scientific, and economic, I’d advise against attributing a 115 IQ plan to a group of 85 IQ people.

  70. 70
    Donald G says:

    Sort of like how Obama was bloviating about anti-Semitism yesterday while the living example of how Obama was all for it for over twenty years was speaking right next door.

    I’m sorry, North Dallas Thirty, but you flunk geography. Hampton University is not right next door to the White House. It’s about a four to five hour drive South down I-95, then East over I-64 to Hampton. If you’ve continue on I-64 through the Hampton Roads Bridge Tunnel into Norfolk, or down I-664 through the Monitor/Merrimac Bridge Tunnel into Suffolk, you’ve gone too far. :-)

  71. 71
    demkat620 says:

    @Charon: Um, it’s a joke. You remember those?

  72. 72
    Peter J says:

    Sort of like how Obama was bloviating about anti-Semitism yesterday while the living example of how Obama was all for it for over twenty years was speaking right next door.

    I’m getting sick and tired of this. Over twenty years? Any real evidence for this? And no, a couple of Youtube clips aren’t nearly enough.

  73. 73
    Tom says:

    @Jon

    How dumb can you get. People on the right actually look up to this guy?

    John really hit the nail on the head. In college, I took a social deviance class. In it, we studied the right-wing extremist movement (skin head groups, militias, etc…). This was right before Oklahoma City. John’s exactly right. The militia/supremacist movement is traditionally known as falling on the extreme right of the political spectrum. This is fact. They are known, classified movements and this dude fits the profile of one of these guys to a “t.” He thinks the government is oppressive. Thinks the Jews secretly run the world. Hates blacks. He’s a white, middle-aged male. He was associated and friends with white supremacists. This guy is right-wing. He just is.

    Just as an anarchist who bombed a government building and railed against Obama would be left-wing.

  74. 74
    Zuzu's Petals says:

    @daryljfontaine:

    How many threads does this make that they’ve fouled now?

    JC had to close a couple down, it’s gotten so bad.

  75. 75
    Xenos says:

    What is most amusing is how none of the movement conservatives were concerned about Palin’s relationship with the Birchers, the anti-American Alaskan Independence Party, and her riling up the creepy racist elements of the right wing (no more links – you have all seen this).

    Now after being in bed with these dogs, most especially in the last nine months, they are just aghast and scandalized that we lefties are so unclassy as to suggest that Allahpundit et al. have a bad case of the fleas.

  76. 76
    TenguPhule says:

    Oh no, it was pretty clearly about those who oppose abortion as a whole, with a strong dose of bash the Christians and bash the Republicans thrown in.

    ND30 obviously feels guilty about something.

    Like forcing 13 yr olds to give birth.

  77. 77
    Michael says:

    Jesus – I’d glimpsed a hint of this earlier – the shooter was sprung from the Liberty Lobby – Willis Fucking Carto and Phyllis Schlafly.

    I’m embarrassed to have ever inhabited their political spectrum.

    I’ve not yet figured out why conservatism gets by with pretending to be a valid doctrine when all it stands for is mental sloth, craven enabling, greed, authoritarian groveling, racism, creedism, anti-intellectualism and deliberate failure.

    I need a refund of all those contributions.

  78. 78
    Jason says:

    I’m not sure that painting von Brunn as a liberal is going to gain any more traction than any other thing the pundits have tried lately. I’m thinking this one will actually do worse: it is so stupid that a 27%er may actually think “wow w.t.f.” thus reducing the percentage. Just because beliefnet is feigning credulity over the fact that a white supremacist studied this strange pseudoscience called “eugenics” doesn’t mean that everybody is going to think that that evolutionists are bigots and vice versa, which is clearly the propaganda of least resistance for them. How far can they go? “von Brunn: gay married” or “The Multicultural Ethics of von Brunn”? Did he spend time in a black lesbian separatist feminist commune in the late sixties?

    And the point is well-taken the other way, also: everybody knows who this guy is and what his beliefs mean. Doesn’t mean there is intrinsic racism in more conservative ideologies; but I’m guessing that if the shoe fits, it’s the right foot it fits on. That the clearinghouse blogs are spending so much time parsing every vB writing for some hermeneutic tint of leftism (liberalism? I don’t even know what flavor they’re pushing) looks a lot like esoterics. And there’s a reason they call it that.

    So this is really just a local issue for the commentariat. Schlussel, for instance, is simply linkbaiting, and I’d be worried, too, in this economy.

  79. 79
    TenguPhule says:

    Now after being in bed with these dogs, most especially in the last nine months,

    You cad! Sexist and pregnantist at the same time!

  80. 80
    TenguPhule says:

    I’ve not yet figured out why conservatism gets by with pretending to be a valid doctrine when all it stands for is mental sloth, craven enabling, greed, authoritarian groveling, racism, creedism, anti-intellectualism and deliberate failure.

    Money, cocktail parties and wetsuits.

  81. 81
    Michael says:

    How many threads does this make that they’ve fouled now?

    Conservatives are the energizer bunnies of propaganda. They’ll cooperate in shifts sometimes, acting as sockpuppets on accounts just to keep the charade up all the time.

  82. 82
    flounder says:

    They are the ones that had Nixon’s “Jew Counter” out acting as a GOP spokeman.
    http://yglesias.thinkprogress......n_cnbc.php

  83. 83
    LD50 says:

    Oh no, it was pretty clearly about those who oppose abortion as a whole, with a strong dose of bash the Christians and bash the Republicans thrown in.

    ND30 obviously feels guilty about something. Like forcing 13 yr olds to give birth.

    I think he’s wracked with guilt for being gay, and being an intolerant wingnut is his way of making up for it.

    He’s far from the first one to adopt this strategy.

  84. 84
    Zuzu's Petals says:

    @Michael:

    Yeah, but this is nothing but stream-of-consciousness nutty for its own sake.

    Oh. I get it …

  85. 85
    Mary says:

    Why do all the right wingers say that Von Brunn was a 911 truther when in fact he was a BIRTHER? Can you be left wing and be a BIRTHER? I would like Allahpundit to name the first left winger who is a BIRTHER, other than Von Brunn, that is.

    Their propaganda has lost all cohesion, now. They can’t win by perpetuating group insanity. Thank God for that.

  86. 86
    Brian Griffin says:

    When you spend every day lighting fires in your yard, just to control the weeds, you’re bound to be a bit defensive when your neighbor’s house burns down.

    Even if he’s a nutcase with a welding torch set up in his living room.

    mccain seemed genuinely clueless about the vitriol in his rallies, and where it might lead. these guys who were railing about the dhs report knew exactly what kind of fire they’ve been playing with. that’s why they’re defensive now.

  87. 87
    tavella says:

    Does anyone know of a working filter for Balloon Juice? Pie’s filter is broken — when I try to load it I get a compilation error at line 377 — and the trolls are really getting out of hand and people keep feeding them and giving them the attention they want.

  88. 88
    Mumphrey says:

    I don’t know how many people have heard this, but I saw on Olbermann that Rush Limbaugh has already begun trying to make this von Brunn guy out to be a “leftist”.
    No big shocker there, I guess.

  89. 89
    John Cole says:

    @Mary: There were tons of left-wing birthers. Weren’t NOIQ and that whole group birthers?

  90. 90
    Tonal Crow says:

    1. If you don’t want to be lumped in with the criminals who blew up the OKC federal building, or who blew away Dr. Tiller and Mr. Johns, don’t blow their c*cks by talking about doing — or talking about how “justified” it is for others to do — the very same kinds of crimes. Yeah, it’s your 1st Amendment right to talk that trash — and it’s our 1st Amendment right to liken you to the terrorists you celebrate.

    2. It’s the responsibility of good Muslims to reign in Muslim terroristsgood rightists to reign in rightist terrorists.

    3. If you want to improve your image, improve your substance.

  91. 91
    Matt says:

    It’s odd how the mainstream conservatives these days seem to forget so much of their own history.

    Its not that conservatives forget their own history, its that they are always in constant revision of their past. Revisionism is how conservatives understand their history: Joe McCarthy was right and not that bad, Nixon was a liberal (I’ve heard the Pantload say this on more than one occasion), W. Bush was really a liberal. Whatever is seen as a conservative failure is translated into an excess of liberalism on the part of the conservative or the conservative administration. At the same time successes of liberalism never existed, this is why conservatives tout Amity Shales book about the New Deal or Jonah’s Liberal Fascism. What Goldberg’s book does is attempt to saddle liberalism with the violence and excess of conservatism and liberalism missteps at the same time. Under this rubric of understanding history, conservatism ever wrong. By placing fascism on the left, Goldberg wants to excuse the future and past mistakes of conservatism as an excess of liberalism. If W. Bush did torture prisoners and spy on political enemies, is not his conservatism that made him prone to these ideas, he was indulging his liberalism (read: compassionate conservatism) where ultimate power is in the hands of the state. The same applies to Nixon: if Nixon used the Southern Strategy to win elections its because of his flirtations with liberalism where race and identity politics are used to divide our society. Liberalism must come to terms with its own faults, while at the same time it must atone for the sins of the right. At the end of the day this is nothing more than childish blame shifting, but it has always fascinated me how much time and effort go into this part of conservatism. The need for a conservatism that is always right no matter the time period—past, present, or future—robs conservatism of its ability at self-reflection, which I think is at the heart of their problems. But then again it gets Jonah Goldberg on the T.V. so it can’t be all bad?

  92. 92
    Delia says:

    @John Cole:

    There were tons of left-wing birthers. Weren’t NOIQ and that whole group birthers?

    I think it’s problematic to argue that Larry Johnson (aka Agent Flowbee) was ever left-wing. He was a Republican CIA analyst before he got pissed off over Valerie Plame’s outing. I think he was always motivated more by anger at Bush than anything else. I have no idea what motivates his co-conspirator Susan. She’s just nuts.

  93. 93
    Comrade Stuck says:

    @Mary:

    Why do all the right wingers say that Von Brunn was a 911 truther when in fact he was a BIRTHER? Can you be left wing and be a BIRTHER? I would like Allahpundit to name the first left winger who is a BIRTHER, other than Von Brunn, that is.

    Things got a little confused out their during the dem primary. New stuff like a Girl candidate and a black one shifted the balance of the Universe. Some dems went insane and others ate their their own droppings and became PUMA’s birthers, truthers and took up with ratfuckers.

    I read where Brunn was also a truther, among other stuff. All of it hate crazy and anti-human. I personally consider him in a category that has no real name. His problem was him and the rest was just a way to vent away from the real person he hated, himself.

    But the wingnuts, with their crazy and sometimes implied violent rhetoric should not escape a tangential culpability.

    It’s not a legal culpability, but a social one. When the leaders of a party say liberals are taking over the country to impose socialism, or fascism, or whatever, we laugh and ridicule them because we know it’s not true. But also, if it were true, then it would call for armed resistance. they should know there are people out there who can’t tell the difference, and if given permission will act as though it were true.

  94. 94
    a giant slor says:

    epic smackdown is epic

  95. 95
    Anne Laurie says:

    Unfortunately, even the actual Oklahoma City bombing, perpetrated by an actual right-wing extremist, didn’t do much to tamp things down. It’s not like the extremists shriveled up and vanished after that; they’re still around over a decade later.

    I wish I knew an answer.

    When backed into a corner, I always suggest better pre-natal nutrition. Of course it’s not going to help the present generation — from the elderly von Brunns to the pasty Young Republicans — but at least it can’t hurt.

  96. 96
    TenguPhule says:

    3. If you want to improve your image, improve your substance.

    It only takes a little bit of shit to ruin the whole thing.

  97. 97
    anonevent says:

    @LD50: Actually, it’s far simpler. He feels guilty for thinking thoughts about killing abortion clinic doctors, and presidents who are black born in Hawaii. And so he’s got to push back against being associated with someone who did it.

    But while he’s got to deal with Jesus on his thoughts being wrong, I can’t fault him. I had thoughts of impeaching Bush a lot the last few years. Oh, wait, those aren’t equivalent. Still…

  98. 98
    Nellcote says:

    I note that Paul L. always shows up when the wingnuts fuck up big time.

  99. 99
    BethanyAnne says:

    @Nellcote: And always to say the same thing:

    Oh really? What about your {insert false equivalence here}? Huh? Huh!?

    Lame. Boring. Predictable.

  100. 100
    robertdsc says:

    I’ve not yet figured out why conservatism gets by with pretending to be a valid doctrine when all it stands for is mental sloth, craven enabling, greed, authoritarian groveling, racism, creedism, anti-intellectualism and deliberate failure.

    But, but…Oakeshott! Burke! Bell Curves! Also!

  101. 101
    pbg says:

    1) Why be simply right when you can be infallible?
    They’ve discovered the easy way to get 40mpg from their car, make six figures, and have a ten-inch dick: lie about it.
    It’s the magic solution, friends: why agonize over the fine points and seeming contradictions of conservatism when you can simply lie about them? Reagan defeated the soviet Union by sheer toughness; he cut taxes and raised revenue; we have the greatest health-care system in the world; Saddam Hussein moved the WMD’s to Syria right before the invasion.
    You can be right about everything all the time , if only you dispense with the facts.
    2) The only cohesive principle the Right has is ‘I hate liberals.”
    It allows fundie Christians to pal around with atheist Randists; Federal Reserve-haters with members of the Federal Reserve; Isolationists with Imperialists; and NASCAR populists with the ultra-rich.
    Repudiate hatred of liberals and the Right falls into pieces: you can never say that hating liberals is wrong.
    3) Maybe they really can’t distinguish between Howard Roark and Timothy McVeigh. Both blew up buildings, right?

  102. 102
    bob h says:

    The FBI ought to be seeking out this man’s associates with the same vigor they would bring to busting an Al Qaeda sleeper cell. Or are they worried Conservatives would get upset?

  103. 103

    […] he said. Posted in Politics by Fletch on June 12, 2009 John Cole, Balloon Juice: At any rate, just so we are clear. When the media talks about right-wing extremism, they aren’t […]

  104. 104
    Punditus Maximus says:

    I think we should take the wingnuts at their word — if they insist on conflating themselves with the violent extremists, then they should reap the legal rewards of that decision.

  105. 105
    DrBB says:

    “You want my weapons – this is how you’ll get them,” reads the note discovered inside James von Brunn’s car shortly after his murderous rampage. link

    Yup, obviously a leftie. That whole NRA 2nd Amendment gun rights thing–as lefty as it gets. You never hear conservatives talk about that stuff.

    Conservatism=Calvin-Ball by another name.

  106. 106
    asiangrrlMN says:

    I’m fucking tired of this shit. I really am. I didn’t follow politics closely before the last election (because I didn’t really feel invested in any candidate or the process), and now I see that might be the sane way to go.

    @Jason: I wish I could agree with you that people will wake up and go, “WTF?”, but you know what? Never underestimate the stupidity of the masses. Seriously.

    No false equivalency! Oh, and kudos to Paul Krugman. He’s the only traditional media guy daring to speak that which must not be said.

  107. 107

    […] I wrote a piece titled Manichean Morans about the ridiculous attempts to pretend that von Brunn was a “leftist.” I might have […]

  108. 108

    […] commenter demkat620 at Balloon Juice, on right-wing extremist rhetoric. Comments […]

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  2. […] I wrote a piece titled Manichean Morans about the ridiculous attempts to pretend that von Brunn was a “leftist.” I might have […]

  3. […] he said. Posted in Politics by Fletch on June 12, 2009 John Cole, Balloon Juice: At any rate, just so we are clear. When the media talks about right-wing extremism, they aren’t […]

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