One interesting thing about New York State politics is that there isn’t that much difference between the parties in a lot of ways. For example, Republicans in the State Senate often get endorsements from unions. The former Republican Majority Leader of the State Senate was indicted for taking bribes from unions. (To sum up his legal situation, it’s clear that he was taking bribes but the way the bribes were paid might not actually violate the state’s incredibly weak public ethics laws.) The only real difference between the parties is that the Republicans are to the right on reproductive rights/same sex marriage type stuff (nearly everyone in upstate politics seems to be a Catholic of some kind) and the Democrats are, or at least purport to be, more interested in political reform. Personally, I believe that Democrats are much more likely to enact political reforms, because doing so would probably help them as a party, since under a normal system, Democrats would dominate both houses. On the other hand, they might not because the reforms would likely weaken some of their current leaders.
It’s interesting to compare the reactions of two good local blogs, one on the right and one on the left, to the coup. The conservative blog believes it’s just a power grab but hopes that the Republicans introduce some degree of fiscal austerity. The liberal blog believe it’s just a power grab but hopes the Republicans introduce some political reforms (and notes that they actually did yesterday, even though their record on the issue is awful). I suspect that both will have their hopes dashed.
Left Coast Tom
Has anyone ever sued New York for failing to provide a republican (small r) form of government, as required by the U.S. Constitution? Or is it enough that New York (per your descriptions) apparently has the form of republican government institutions without possessing the functionality?
DougJ
I’ve heard this discussed before but I don’t know if anyone has ever gone through with it or far the suits have gotten.
SenyorDave
Off topic but I just saw this:
Said Limbaugh: “It is offensive to the sensibilities of millions of people to hear a member of the state-run media refer to a half-black, half-white human being with no experience running anything of substance referred to as a god. He may be president of the United States, but he’s not a god.”
As they say, WTF?
Limbaugh has now officially moved into overt racist territory. I am suprised this has not gotten more media attantion. Just because he is an “entertainer” doesn’t mean that there are no boundaries. I wonder how his advertisors feel about this?
JenJen
O/T, but MSNBC just reported shots have been fired inside the Holocaust Museum in DC. Fox News says early reports are that two or three people have been shot, including a security officer.
ChrisS
I’ve had a bad taste in my mouth all day because of this, mainly because DeFrancisco has been leading the charge.
There is a strong dichotomy between downstate and upstate and the divide is growing. Nearly all my winger friends in upstate think that the first order of business in Albany should be to sever NYC from the rest of the state at Route 202 and Peekskill.
Sometimes, I have a hard time not agreeing with them.
SpotWeld
That is the most bizzare form of bipartinsanship I have ever heard of.
tripletee (formerly tBone)
@SpotWeld:
Maybe Grover Norquist was right after all – it really is like date-rape.
Brachiator
@Left Coast Tom:
Once. But that guy was never seen again.
I use to think that California politics were wild, but this NY stuff is even more outlandish. The only constant is that both parties do everything they can to maintain power, voters be damned.
OT: Great story about workers fighting to retain a retirement benefit:
Free beer? Who knew?
TenguPhule
Hey, something funny is going on with the Atrios link on the blogroll, it keeps redirecting to something called orkut instead.
The Grand Panjandrum
With Iran looking like it might be moving toward some semblance of reform I guess we can have hope for NYS as well.
Jay C
@The Grand Panjandrum:
What, are you kidding? Iran will have a Jewish President before the NY State Legislature reforms – probably LONG before.
Whenever anything about the New York State Legislature hits the news I’m always reminded of the line in the musical 1776: the chief delegate from New York has, for the umpteenth time, abstained (“on instructions”) from voting, or indeed making any useful contribution whatsoever, and (I think) John Adams finally turns on him and exasperatedly asks WTF his State is doing there anyway. The delegate merely looks at him and says (with a lugubrious and world-weary tone):
“Sir, have you ever BEEN to the New York State Legislature?”
Which line never fails to generate a laugh – especially on Broadway.
Unfortunately (and I’m sure many people back in 1776 probably felt the same way), a semi-dysfunctional Legislature is about as fixed a part of New York State as the Adirondacks: and moderately less easy to move.
ninerdave
@Brachiator:
Yeah no doubt. Although they seem to be able to pass legislation in NY. So they have that going for them at least.
Roger Moore
@Brachiator:
I did. I thought that everyone knew that the big breweries gave their employees a boatload of beer as a standard part of their compensation. It looks generous and reduces the employees’ temptation to steal.
KG
The Republican Guarantee Clause has been ruled to be non-judistable, meaning only Congress can act to enforce it. Though I do know some lawyers in the public interest area (both left and right) that have considered challenges to certain state acts under it.
KG
@12: oh, they pass legislation in California, just not budgets.
Punchy
@Roger Moore: Are non-drinkers allowed to negotiate more $$ for less/no beer in their salary, or are non-drinkers just laughed out of the job interview before they’re ever hired?
demimondian
@Roger Moore: Unlike many of the Kentucky Bourbon manufacturers. They’d surely like to do this (as it is cheap and reduces lossage) but they’re based in dry counties, and may not redistribute their wares there.
DougJ
It’s even better than that — legislation can be passed without even being voted on.
Adrienne
As a resident of NYC, I’d say, “Yeah, let’s go ahead and do that”. Let’s see how long they last without the NYC tax base.
While we’re at it, let’s cut off the winger South states and see how long they last without the blue state tax revenues that keep them afloat.
Hob
Doug, what ChrisS said is another fairly significant difference between the parties: the NYS Republicans are more likely to try to screw over NYC, and play upstate against the city. I think that has less to do with their social conservatism, more to do with where their voters are.
If NYC did secede, both sides would be sad to lose their enemies. The upstate wingers wouldn’t get to blame everything on the city, and the city would no longer have the state government to make the city government look almost good by contrast.
Seebach
Shooting at the Holocaust Museum by 89 year old Neo-Nazi. The right wing violence is only beginning.
The Moar You Know
@Seebach: Christ, at age 89 I’m thinking that’s probably no neo-nazi, but a real-live Nazi – would have been 25 when WW2 ended.
MikeJ
I’m waiting for Megan McArdle to tell us that as long as putting jews in death camps is illegal we should expect shootings.
Xenos
@KG: SSSSHHHHhhh! Don’t give the jerks on Beacon Hill any ideas!
JenJen
Hey, DougJ… any chance we can get an open thread? Lots to talk about today.
Seebach
James W. von Brunn. He may very well be a real, original Nazi.
JenJen
@The Moar You Know: Here’s his bio on a hate site:
He says he is a WWII veteran; PT-Boat Captain.
DougJ
True. But I think that’s mostly talk. I’m not convinced there are serious policy differences there very often.
I hear people up here say “oh, noes, without Joe Robach’s 10 million dollar member items budget, Rochester will collapse.” I’m just not sure that the amounts of money being thrown around when people are being “helped” or “screwed over” are substantial enough to amount to anything.
Gina
Hubby works for the NY Assembly, so it’s been pretty interesting around here. With less than 2 weeks of regular session, all the bills and stuff that had been hammered out are now stalled because it’s unclear who’s got the say-so in the NY Senate. So, his usual home-after-midnight/up-at-dawn-for-breakfast-meetings schedule for this time of year is seasoned with the FAIL of getting *literally nothing done* despite all the time spent.
One of the “turncoat” dems is up on charges for slashing his girlfriend’s face with a broken glass. The other consistently doesn’t file his campaign finance reports, owes around 60k (last I heard) in fines, and may (meaning, most probably) not actually reside in his district, which would be a disqualifier for him to represent them. The billionaire who funded the coup got upset because he originally paid for a nice shiny new senate and all he got was Malcolm Smith looking at his blackberry.
Malcolm Smith is a putz, and so is David Paterson. Talk about snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. I also don’t understand how P. Diddy could get in legal trouble for being an unregistered lobbyist a few years ago for being conspicuous in his support of overturning the Rockefeller Drug Laws, but Golisano can openly buy and sell legislators because he gets peeved, with no consequence at all.
Xenos
@Seebach: yikes. I was googling an old college acquaintance in anticipation of our reunion this weekend. He has a fairly prominent job in Washington now, and lo and behold, the third google item for his name is his name and home address on the Stormfront list of powerful Jews.
Creepy as hell to see your old ski instructor being singled out for murder by fascists. I hope he has some secret service protection.
Seebach
Which side?
Will
WW2 pt-boat captain, Wikipedia contributor, hate-site owner and accomplished painter. Media’s going to have a field day with this guy.
MikeJ
MSNBC “news” person, when told that shooter thought US fought on wrong side of the war, “There are slews of people who feel like that, what’s different about this guy?”
gopher2b
@Seebach:
I’ve always said that if I make it to 85, 90 years old I’m trying heroin. I guess other people have other goals.
I’m so sick of this sh!t.
Ash Can
Holy crap. I really, really hope the authorities are getting on these right-wing extremists, like that DHS report said they should. Come on, guys. Forget about the conservatives crying that they’re being unfairly targeted. Do your goddamned jobs.
Seebach
So, next shooting. What’s it gonna be? Abortion clinic? Immigration center? Gay wedding ceremony? Synagogue?
JenJen
@Will: From another one of this whackjob’s bios:
Also wrote some manifesto about Christianity and the Holocaust both being hoaxes. Like others in this thread, I really hope the authorities can start keeping a closer eye on these dangerous nutters.
Tony J
They said WHAT?
WTF?
Calouste
@Tony J:
WWII, Iraq war, what’s the difference if you are a network airhead? Is that Dana Perino in her new job?
Tony J
@Calouste:
It just boggled me that someone could actually say that. Like it’s just conventional-wisdom that so many Americans think America should have been part of the Axis that it’s not even important, or even relevant, in wondering why one of them went to a Holocaust Museum to kill people.
It’s like they’re saying “But he was just a normal guy, why would he want to hurt anyone?”
Alright, it’s not ‘like’ that. It’s actually what this unbelievable dickhead was actually saying with a frikking microphome in their hand.
I just find it very, very WTF.
bago
Well in Seattle we have already had both a house-party shooting and a Jewish facility shooting.
Bruuuuce
ChrisS @5: In many ways I agree. But, as I noted in a comment to a friend over at LJ, allowing upstate to go its own way would introduce two more Republicans into the US Senate, with no corresponding Democratic increase.
Rum Romanism Rebellion
To return to the original topic of this thread ….
New York (city and state) is not the haven for liberal, progressive or populist Democrats that people around the country think it is. Democratic Presidential and US Senate candidates only started kicking ass in New York in the second half of the 1990s, as the national GOP began dicrediting itself utterly and totally.
But below the federal level (President, US Senate, House), you could make the case that nowhere outside the South is the political atmosphere more toxic for liberals. In some ways, New York may actually be worse than the South. At least the South has the decency and good manners to hide its elitism behind the God-Guns-Gays pseudo-populist smokescreen.
In New York state and city politics, plutocracy is shameless. The billionaires Michael Bloomberg and Ronald Lauder overturn the verdict of the voters and jettison term limits. The billionaire Tom Golisano overturns the verdict of the voters and orchestrates a back-room putsch to overthrow a duly elected Democratic-controlled State Senate just so his taxes might be cut.
Plutocrats and DINOs run riot. Woe to the liberal Democrat foolish enough to stand in the way. Ask Mark Green. Ask Bill Thompson next November.
Wile E. Quixote
Doug, I love your stuff on New York politics. I remember seeing a bunch of stuff a few months back about scandals within the NY State public pension plan but then it all seemed to drop off the radar. Carlyle Group, everyone’s favorite business right after Halliburton did end up paying a fine of 20 million dollars because they had been
bribingmaking contributions to an aide in the comptroller’s office to drive business their way but other than that not much seems to have happened. If you have the time I’d love to hear how this is playing back in New York.Wile E. Quixote
@ChrisS
Why the fuck not? Seriously, you don’t get any points for being a big state, it costs you in the Senate, where Wyoming gets the same representation as New York, California and Texas and after a point governing a huge state becomes impossible, especially when the state has pronounced cultural and political differences between different regions. Getting rid of the rest of New York state would be a fantastic deal for New York City. Billions in tax revenues that currently go to Albany would stay in the New York metro area and the wingers wouldn’t have to worry about being dominated, or subsidized by liberal New Yorkers any more.
Bill Arnold
This would excise most of Westchester and all of Rockland counties as well, and would be death to the state income tax base.
How do they feel about Nassau and the rest of Long Island?
(In the last election, only Putnam and Staten Island counties were red among the downstate/lower hudson valley counties.)
DougJ
It’s mostly being ignored. State scandals have to get huge before anyone pays attention, unless there are hookers involved.