David Letterman, Cad

You know, I have no idea what the hell David Letterman is thinking or what he thinks he is accomplishing with crap like this, but this was inexcusable. He should be ashamed of himself.

And I’m not trying to sound like some politically correct scold, and I have no problem with comedians being comedians. There are lots of reasons to dislike Sarah Palin, there are lots of reasons to not be impressed with her leadership, her beliefs, or, well, anything about her, but when you start with the “slutty” crap, or are making jokes about her daughter getting “knocked up,” you’ve crossed a line. I have no problem attacking Palin for her idiotic proposals and all the stupid things she has said, but this just is the kind of nonsense that is no good for anyone.

Maybe I’m over-reacting, and I know I’m not always perfect, but I’m really losing my patience and tolerance for this kind of stuff. There was no place for this kind of stuff with Hillary and Chelsea, there is no room for it with Michelle and their kids, and the same standard should apply for Sarah Palin and her kids. Hell, it should apply to all women.

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386 replies
  1. 1
    Perry Como says:

    Can we still make fun of Lindsey Graham?

  2. 2
    Krista says:

    And there was just no need for it. Dave’s supposed to be smarter than that, so to stoop to that kind of shit is really disappointing.

  3. 3
    DougJ says:

    He doesn’t write the Top Ten lists.

    (I agree the “slutty” line from the Top Ten list was out of line.)

  4. 4
    MobiusKlein says:

    @DougJ: He doesn’t write them, but the show has his name as the top billing. The Cossacks for for the Czar.

  5. 5
    Comrade Stuck says:

    Geeze, I remember when we had our “slut” and “B and C-word” troubles back in the primary, and finally cleaned it up, and BJ aint even on national teevee. What’s the world coming to these days?

  6. 6

    You’re a gentleman, John :)

    David Letterman is NOT, never was, and never will be. He’s a weird twisted comic and celebrity and you do not want to cross him or he’ll shred you. I’d bet money that Palin scorned him in some way, refused to appear, and as a result, the jokes got WAY meaner than they might have.

    This is the guy who managed to put on live footage of McCain getting pancake makeup put on for a TV appearance after he’d rebuffed Letterman and claimed he was leaving town. I think it’s better not to lie to him or get snooty about rejecting a proposed appearance.

    I should correct myself a bit- David Letterman will be a gentleman if he thinks you deserve it. Maybe that bar is hard to clear, maybe it’s not, but clearly the combination of him and demented, arrogant Republicans leads to incredible carnage :)

    Personally I was amused partly because it’s always interesting to see Letterman really flip out. Limbaugh has nothing on this guy as far as not observing any civilized limits :)

  7. 7
    th says:

    18+ years age in the public spotlight?

  8. 8
    Mike D. says:

    Maybe it shouldn’t have been done to Hillary and Chelsea, but it was. They don’t pull punches, and no one tells you they’re going to before you get in the game. Palin’s in the game, and family has never been out of bounds for the late-night yukkers. If you don’t like it, don’t watch.

  9. 9
    Death By Mosquito Truck says:

    I’m tenured enough to remember when we’d laugh at shit like this or ignore it.

  10. 10
    Mayken says:

    Yeah, that was over the top. Seriously, as per many a commenter on the Annie Lauire post, there are so many other things to bust on Palin aboutwithout resorting to the sexism. **sigh**

  11. 11
    Mary L. says:

    @Doug J: He doesn’t write them? He speaks them. And he should be held responsible for what he says. John, you’re absolutely right–there is no place for these kind of comments. You’re not over-reacting–Letterman crossed a line that it is never appropriate to cross. Sexism is sexism regardless of the political persuasion of its target.

  12. 12
    myiq2xu says:

    18+ years age in the public spotlight?

    The daughter in question is 14 year old Willow, not Bristol.

  13. 13
    The Moar You Know says:

    Amy Carter got the treatment.
    Chelsea Clinton did too.

    Jenna Bush, Barbara Bush, Meaghan McCain got a pass. As did the Nixon and Ford kids.

    See a pattern? I’ll bet Dave does.

    So I guess I’m OK with Palin’s hellspawn getting “the treatment”. Maybe next time some fat Republican gasbag will think for at least one second before deciding to compare a Democrat’s offspring to a domestic animal.

  14. 14
    grimc says:

    @John Cole

    There was no place for this kind of stuff with Hillary and Chelsea

    Ah, but there was a place for that stuff. On Limbaugh’s show, at the podium at Republican fundraisers, ad infinitum. Still is.

    Letterman was way out of line, no question. I just find it hard to get worked up about a single instance of a talk show host making a sexist crack while conservatives openly wonder whether a SCOTUS nominee’s menstrual cycle should be something to worry about.

  15. 15
    geg6 says:

    While I usually love me some Dave, I can’t get on board with calling her slutty. Trashy? No doubt. Flirty? Absolutely. Willing to play on her sexuality for political or any other gain? Show her the money! But I’ve seen no evidence that she’s not hot for her very own hubby and nobody else. As for her daughter the teenage mom, well, I’m torn. I’d normally say hands off. But both parents and the young lady have tried to make points over the whole getting knocked up thing and that sorta makes her fair game. And honestly, John. We women aren’t delicate flowers who can’t fight our own fights. I know you mean well, but I find the idea that women are off limits for criticism of character incredibly patronizing. You fight back against character attacks and prove them wrong. Just as Michelle did. Just as Hilary and Chelsea did. Sarah Palin, despite her infinite number of flaws, strikes me as perfectly able to fight back and so, amazingly, does young Bristol. If we hold men to standards of personal character, then women should be, too. If Palin is really a slut and Bristol a chip off the old block, then that will come out. If not, Letterman is a gigantic tool. I’m a feminist, but not the type who wants a perfectly PC world. It keeps me sharp to have to take on the tools of the world. It’s kind of like the idea that perfect happiness all the time would be a bore. We need the bad shit to remind us to appreciate the good.

  16. 16
    wonkie says:

    I hate Republicans who engage in that kind of shit (which is to say I hate nearly all of the Republicans involved in public life), but that doesn’t mean I want my side to act sleazy.
    Palin is worth mocking on a dozens different legitimate levels. She shoulden’t be mocked just for being female or over her daughter. Let’s leave that kind of behavior to the Rethugs.

  17. 17

    1) Officeholders’ and candidates’ kids should always be off limits. Nobody gets to choose their parents.

    2) Can we leave the sexual innuendo out of play, no matter what political figure we’re talking about, of either sex? Women shouldn’t have to deal with comments on their sexuality just because they’re public figures, and that especially applies to words like ‘slut,’ ‘bitch,’ and ‘cunt.’

    But men, too, shouldn’t have to deal with similar stuff. You want to call out Bill Clinton on having affairs, go for it. But the wingnuts knew exactly what image they were trying to leave in people’s minds when they called him “Slick Willy,” and it didn’t reflect well on them.

    3) Sarah Palin does indeed dress like a randy flight attendant. And ‘randy’ would have been a better choice of words for Letterman than ‘slutty.’

  18. 18
    th says:

    could be wrong. but i didn’t hear/read a specific daugher being referenced. granted, 14 yrs of age is not an idea age to be be come impregnated. my bad, i assumed the elder daughter was being referenced. my apologies.

  19. 19
    NonyNony says:

    Really? You guys want to go with the “they did it first” defense? Really? You want to let Rush Limbaugh set the standard for what’s acceptable to say about politicians’ kids? Really?

    The folks who make misogynistic “jokes” about women are assholes. It doesn’t matter if the “joker” is Limbaugh or Letterman or random fratboy and it doesn’t matter if the target is Chelsea Clinton or Willow Palin or random college chick – the joker is still an asshole.

    Republicans are kinda sorta expected to be assholes these days. There’s the whole “Southern Strategy” and the whole “wimmen should be barefoot, preganant, and in the kitchen” angle to the party. When they live down to the standard they’ve created for themselves it’s ugly but not surprising. But don’t let them drag you down with them – that’s exactly what they want. To prove that everyone is as a base and vile and horrible as they are themselves.

  20. 20
    DougJ says:

    Maybe it shouldn’t have been done to Hillary and Chelsea, but it was.

    That doesn’t mean it should be done on Dave. It’s not Fox News or right-wing talk radio.

    Shit slips through and I’m not ready to send Dave or his writers to re-education camp over this. But it was out of line.

  21. 21
    geg6 says:

    I hereby affirm my right to call a slut a slut. I in no way believe that is true with regard to Sarah Palin, but I have my suspicions about Ann Coulter.

  22. 22
    Bootlegger says:

    The A-rod joke and slutty flight attendant were out of line and make Letterman no better than Limbaugh when he does that. But Dave’s never been classy. Never.

  23. 23
    Laertes says:

    I’m flying on the wrong airlines.

  24. 24
    grimc says:

    @DougJ:

    He gets final approval, though. Friend of mine was a writer there for a brief period. He said his job was basically writing Top Ten jokes, having Letterman yell at him for sucking, then writing more Top Ten jokes.

  25. 25
    Michael D. says:

    John Cole @ Top:

    Maybe I’m over-reacting

    Yeah, you are. It’s Letterman. He’s said a hundred times worse stuff about Richard Simmons and, guess what, it’s hilarious. Letterman’s not a “shock” host, but sometimes he throws one in for good measure.

    Sense of humour, meet everyone here. Everyone here, meet sense of humour.

    (I didn’t hear the stuff he said about Bristol Palin, so I won’t comment on that.)

  26. 26
    Brick Oven Bill says:

    Ole Dave has been riding the PC double standard for many moons now. Five years ago I used to think he was funny. In 2009 though, some of the edgiest stuff is coming out of the United Nations. Who knew Kim Jung-Il is actually very funny.

  27. 27
    DougJ says:

    Okay, the A-Rod joke was fucked up. Just wrong. That should never have been said.

    I only saw the Top Ten thing originally.

  28. 28
    simonee says:

    Puleeeez. Letterman regularly makes fun of Hillary Clinton’s pantsuits. Where’s the outrage for that? Sure these jokes are based from sexist notions but it’s funny that everyone has their panties in a twist because an inappropriate joke was directed toward a Republican woman.

  29. 29
    Michael D. says:

    Just heard the Bristo Palin bit. Again, nothing there. She’s a big girl who has decided to be a public figure re: the whole “getting knocked up as a kid” thing.

    Personally, I thought it was more of an A-Rod joke than anything. Lighten up.

  30. 30
    John Cole says:

    Jenna Bush, Barbara Bush, Meaghan McCain got a pass. As did the Nixon and Ford kids.

    Bullshit. There were daily tabloid exposes on the Bush girls at their respective schools, with people making jokes about drinking and pictures of them acting less than Presidential.

    And Megan McCain has always received a lot of insults- most recently they were from the right and Laura Ingraham.

    Was it the same as Rush Limbaugh going after Chelsea? Not even close. But it was still out there.

    On Limbaugh’s show, at the podium at Republican fundraisers, ad infinitum. Still is.

    And Limbaugh is an asshole and McCain got hammered by the female vote. Your point?

  31. 31
    The Other Steve says:

    I don’t know, not unusual for the Top Ten. Appropriate? Probably not. Typical: You Betcha!

    Let’s try this one… Top ten surprises in Roger Clinton’s book Growing up Clinton.

    10. Tried to go to Vietnam in Bill’s place, but the army said, “no, thanks”
    9. Bill won’t touch Hillary unless she’s wearing the Mayor McCheese outfit
    8. He’s half Clinton, half Piscopo
    7. As college sophomore, Bill smoked really big joint and spent three months chasing an armadillo across the Mojave Desert
    6. During brother’s inauguration, took a leak in the reflecting pool
    5. If you rearrange the letters in Roger Clinton you get “Forrest Gump”
    4. As early as second grade, Bill was known around the playground as “one-term Bubba”
    3. He taught Kato Kaelin how to dance (VT of Kato dancing)
    2. That “Oprah-Uma” thing was his idea
    1. He voted for Perot

    Top 10 signs there’s trouble in Clinton marriage

    10. During sex, Bill’s been calling out the names of divorce lawyers
    9. She’s voting for Taylor Hicks, he’s voting for Katharine McPhee
    8. ABC’s fall line up features Bill as the next Bachelor
    7. Their last public appearance was on Maury
    6. Forget Africa, when Bill’s looking for a troubled region, he goes to their bedroom
    5. Wistful way Bill talks about happier times – – like the impeachment
    4. Everywhere you look in the house, interns
    3. There have been a lot of “fact finding” trips to Stiletto’s Gentlemen’s Club
    2. It’s gotten so bad even Hillary’s cheating
    1. Bill’s calling Charlie Sheen for advice

    Top 10 Bill Clinton 60th Birthday Plans

    10. The usual–bucket of KFC and a lap dance
    9. Get cracking on second 2,000-page biography
    8. Bust open a pinata full of Lipitor
    7. Depends on what your definition of the word “plans” is
    6. Thank Letterman for the $10 Radio Shack gift certificate
    5. Pretending to be excited when Hillary wears one of her “sexy pantsuits” to bed
    4. Going to Foxwoods with Kofi Annan to catch Regis and Susan Lucci
    3. Hit on that cute AARP receptionist
    2. Reminding Gore the cake is for everyone
    1. In honor of 60, 20-year-old triplets!

    Sheesh, there’s more… dozens and dozens of them. Search the Letterman archives yourself.

  32. 32
    John Cole says:

    @Michael D.: It was not Bristol. It was the other daughter, whose name I can’t even remember, but I do know she probably is only barely in high school.

  33. 33
    Robert Johnston says:

    Without the “slutty flight attendant look,” there’s no real difference between Palin and K-Lo. Palin is a legitimate political figure, and her success as a politician really does derive entirely from her wink-and-a-nod-trying-to-be-a-starburst-inducing-MILF look. That doesn’t mean that Letterman was appropriate, but he certainly was fair, and what he did was a far cry different than the infamous White House dog joke or the cracks about various First Ladies’ and other politicians’ family members’ looks. Now if Letterman had actually called Palin slutty that would have been crossing a similar line, but he didn’t.

  34. 34
    Michael D. says:

    @John Cole: Missed that. Still, it was a joke. And the only person who is going to remember it after tomorrow is Michelle Malkin. I doubt, other than a roll of the eyes, even Sarah Palin cares.

  35. 35
    Rosali says:

    I agree that Letterman’s comment was stupid and he shouldn’t have said it. She got some of the same treatment from the GOP too. Didn’t McCain staffers leak the story that she greeted them in her hotel room wearing only a towel? They were all too happy to sully her name after the election.

  36. 36
    Little Dreamer says:

    David who? I’ve seen him maybe 20 times in the last 25 years, seriously.

    If NoIQ is correct and this is about Willow, am absolutely appalled. If NoIQ is not correct and it’s not about Willow, well, Bristol is an adult now, she shouldn’t be treated like a child anymore. New young mother who couldn’t say yes to abstinence wants to go out and tell all the other young American adults that they should do what she couldn’t do, well, I have no sympathy for hypocrisy, sorry.

  37. 37
    DougJ says:

    Let me re-iterate that the A-Rod joke was out of line.

    Now, as to the slutty flight attendant joke. Let’s say that you had a male veep nom in his early forties, that he winked at the camera, that he blew 50K at Barney’s, and that he was rumored to have gotten the job in part by flirting with Nooners and Lucianne Golberg. You think Dave’s jokes would be any different? You think Paul wouldn’t have played “Just A Gigolo” as he crossed the stage?

  38. 38
    The Other Steve says:

    Oh hell… here’s Rush Limbaugh on the Palin pick as VP.

    Talk show king says of Palin choice: “It’s an inspired choice… this is absolutely fabulous.”

    “We’re the ones with the babe on the ticket.”

  39. 39
    Michael D. says:

    For what it’s worth, every joke by Sam Kinison, George Carlin, Sarah Silverman, Adam Carolla, Jimmy Kimmel, Howard Stern, Wanda Sykes, Chris Rock, Lewis Black, etc., etc., etc., is now out of line!

  40. 40
    grimc says:

    @John Cole:

    My point, like I said, was that I find it hard to get worked up about it. Maybe that seems like I’m discounting or dismissing how pissed off you are about it, but that’s not my intention. Maybe that makes me an awful person. Or maybe when assholes like Limbaugh and Liddy continue to stream sexist crap, it’s only natural to think, “Y’know what? So what if Letterman said something stupid. Fuck it.”

  41. 41
    John Cole says:

    @The Other Steve: Test this one at home, TOS. Tell your wife/girlfriend you think she is a babe. Then tell her you think she is a slut.

    Get back to me with the results.

  42. 42
    Wini says:

    Nevermind. Was quite irrelevant.

  43. 43
    Death By Mosquito Truck says:

    Yer manboobs coming in, John? You seem a little crankier than usual.

  44. 44
    DemonDem says:

    Thank you, John, for calling him out on this.

    I think this kind of thing is hurtful to everyone – even when the target is so mind-bogglingly aggravating that you want to give in to your lesser instincts.

    Whether Palin is a public figure is not the point – whether she has deliberately used her sexual attractiveness in pursuit of political gain is beside the point. What is the point is that:

    a) No one should be subjected to that kind of slur, no matter how ill-considered their positions or their behavior, and

    b) children, always, at all times, should be off limits.

    I cannot count the number of times I wanted to jump up and down and scream bloody murder when some republican-leaning media figure (comedian, pundit, whatever) makes an underhanded remark about a female candidate or official – or worse, their family. If I got enraged about it then, there is no reason not to apply the same standard here.

    We really should hold ourselves to a higher standard (if “Rush Limbaugh did it” is your standard, I urge you to reconsider your position) and call out ANYONE (even those who are picking on someone you don’t like) that stoops to that kind of stuff. It does no on any good.

    So thank you, John, for your consistency, and for bringing this up….

  45. 45
    Jim Treacher says:

    Mike D. is an apologist for rape jokes about 14-year-olds. Good to know.

  46. 46
    Johnny B. Guud says:

    Oh hell… here’s Rush Limbaugh on the Palin pick as VP.

    It’s just as dumb for Rush as it is for Dave to say what he said. Rush and Dave are both entertainers and can say whatever they want. This isn’t about left vs right, Republican vs Democrat—its about stupidity all around.

    Like the post says, it doesn’t do anybody any good.

  47. 47

    Slutty flight attendent? I kind of thought that was the look they were going for and choreographed for her. The “you won’t get any but you can wish” thing. What, sparkles and all that crap never happened or was just some aberraration? The advertising campaign was for VP not Crest.

    I won’t quite go as far as Letterman, but play with mud and you get it on you.

  48. 48
    DougJ says:

    I kind of thought that was the look they were going for and choreographed for her. The “you won’t get any but you can wish” thing. What, sparkles and all that crap never happened or was just some aberraration? The advertising campaign was for VP not Crest.

    Yeah, I agree.

  49. 49
    Michael D. says:

    @John Cole: John: When you see Ann Coulter doing the morning talk show circuit wearing nothing but a skimpy cocktail dress, do you think she looks like a slut?

    I do. And if I had a popular talk show, I might make a joke about it. Sarah Palin was NOTHING but her looks. She was not chosen for ANYTHING having to do with experience, policy, or whatever. That point was made clear on this blog non-stop and on others. She was chosen because John McCain got a hard-on when he met her. And she knew it.

    She is a public figure who got national attention because she allowed herself to be given the number two spot because she is a good looking woman.

    Sarah Palin basically degraded herself. I don’t advocate calling women in general names like that, obviously. But a person who gets a job because she is perceived as a sexpot and KNOWS that’s why she got on the ticket, deserves to be made fun of for it.

    Letterman did NOT call her a slut. He basically made a joke about her going for the “slutty flight attendant look.” Maybe flight attendants are justifiably annoyed. That would be about as much sympathy as I could muster, however.

  50. 50
    Ella in NM says:

    Maybe I’m over-reacting, and I know I’m not always perfect, but I’m really losing my patience and tolerance for this kind of stuff. There was no place for this kind of stuff with Hillary and Chelsea, there is no room for it with Michelle and their kids, and the same standard should apply for Sarah Palin and her kids. Hell, it should apply to all women.

    Thank you, John.

    Everytime I see Palin’s daughter mocked as if she had any role in choosing her mother, or as if she is NOT totally dominated and brainwashed as a barely developed teenager, I want to cry. The kids must be hands off, and the accusing women of being “sluts” is just out of line.

  51. 51
    Michael D. says:

    @Jim Treacher: Yeah, that’s what I am. Grow up. You used to be good when people like me were actually delusional enough to believe that you actually had something worthwhile to say.

  52. 52
    Michael D. says:

    @Jim Treacher: Treacher is an advocate of calling young women “Whores

    Just making that note.

  53. 53
    tim says:

    John, grow a pair and get a thicker skin. All you’ve been thru in the military and you’re horrified by a slut joke about Palin? What is it with tight ass faux American “outrage,” so easily roused?

    Good god, the woman worked the MILF look right thru to election day, tight skirts, higher heels, pregnant daughter, shotgun marriage, family values, jesus and country, and all.

    She’s a clueless hypocrite, and Dave’s joke is a way of calling her out on it. Good for him. More please.

  54. 54
    Bondo says:

    There is absolutely no basis for the claim that the joke was about Willow instead of Bristol. He just says daughter, not a specific name or age. Given the nature of the joke, it is clear he is referring to Bristol, who is an adult and a public spokesperson on the topic of abstinence and thus calls a certain amount of ridicule about the fact that she got knocked up on her. It was also as much a joke about ARod. It was funny.

    As to the stewardess joke. Are you honestly telling me that Palin didn’t play up her hot factor as much as others picked on it during the campaign? It is not sexist to talk about sex. I don’t think it was particularly funny, but it wasn’t offensive or out of line.

    People are both sides get so offended so easily. A few days ago it was people complaining about the National Review cover of Sotomayor and now it is this. Sometimes we need to have a few toes stepped on to laugh. The Onion is funny because it intentionally offends us, not just to shock but because it teaches us something to be offended in a non-serious venue.

  55. 55
    Jim Pharo says:

    Um John? You’re ARE over-reacting. Dave routinely does no-holds-barred stuff, has for years.

    His goal, I think in emulation of his comedy mentor, is to offend everyone. He doesn’t disappoint.

    Also, for whatever it’s worth, this is ratings gold at a time when he sorely needs it. I think his show is unlikely to survive Conan @ 11:30.

  56. 56
    The Other Steve says:

    I’ll keep this in mind next time they make a joke about a Democrat. I hope we hear similar outrage from Malkin, but some how I doubt it.

  57. 57
    The Other Steve says:

    Also, for whatever it’s worth, this is ratings gold at a time when he sorely needs it. I think his show is unlikely to survive Conan @ 11:30.

    God I hate Conan.

    Maybe Dave will retire and Ferguson will get the slot. Now he’s funny.

  58. 58
    Tim in SF says:

    I’m glad when Letterman is mean. He used to be a lot meaner, before the heart attacks. And funnier.

  59. 59
    Nicole says:

    The use of “slutty” made the joke not land. “Randy flight attendant” is funny, though, and made me laugh. Cyclist, the show needs you!

    John, I think the difference in the dissing of the Presidential kids is that I remember a lot of very derogatory things said about Amy Carter and Chelsea Clinton’s appearances while the derogatory things said about the Bush twins were based on their actions. At least the Bush criticisms were based on something over which the young women actually had some control. For me, I couldn’t care less they partied, but I think it was crummy that they were bad tippers when out partying.

    Come to think of it, the rightwing attacks on the barely teenage Chelsea was really creepy- Limbaugh referring to a 13-year-old as the “White House Dog?” What does that say about what Limbaugh’s attracted to? Ick. Ick. Ick. Republicans, behold your creepy leader.

  60. 60
    Jim Treacher says:

    Yeah, that’s what I am.

    If not, why do you keep making apologies for it? It’s obviously making you upset enough to try a little “oppo research,” however ineffective.

  61. 61
    Skippy-san says:

    I wish I could feel sympathetic for Palin-but I can’t. Personally, I wish I had thought up the whole “slutty flight attendant” thing-it’s a clever way to call Palin the fraud that she is.

    I might feel sympathetic-but this is what we have fallen to. And Sarah has rolled in the mud as much as any other pig with lipstick. Hot Air, Michelle Malkin, Capt Ed., the Fat Boy, have done equal or worse.

    You are probably right though-its just going to make more trouble in the long run. But sometimes you just want people to get the beating they deserve. This was probably one of those times.

    So Sarah, shut up and cook dinner.

  62. 62
    Jim Treacher says:

    There is absolutely no basis for the claim that the joke was about Willow instead of Bristol.

    Except that Willow was at the game and Bristol wasn’t. Other than that.

    At least he wasn’t talking about Piper. Probably.

  63. 63
    JGabriel says:

    Going after Bristol with a “knocked up” joke was a cheap shot and wrong, though it is hard to know what to make of Bristol Palin as the poster girl for abstinence, “Here’s my beautiful baby! Don’t have teen sex!” I don’t think she’s necessarily off limits – after all, Bristol Palin is actively putting herself out there as a public figure now, not just as passive accompaniment to her mother’s campaign.

    As for the “slutty flight attendant” crack, I heard that as a joke about Sarah Palin’s wardrobe and makeup choices – not about her physical appearance per se. I mean, if a male politician was out there dressing in sequins like Liberace, or in cowboy boots like Bush, we’d certainly call him out on it.

    I don’t know, maybe “slutty” is over the line, but Palin is obviously capitalizing on her sex appeal and it doesn’t seem like that should be off limits either. Letterman’s not exactly attacking the weak and defenseless here.

    .

  64. 64
    DonkeyKong says:

    Liberal Creed: Fight fair, punch hard. Letterman violates the first half.

  65. 65
    DemonDem says:

    I’m seeing a lot of “she did this to herself” type rhetoric. I always become nervous when I hear that line of argument.

    Palin used attractiveness as part of her whole political persona – and I personally found it revolting that so many people fell for it – but look at all the tanned, well-coiffed, million-dollar-smile male politicians (on both sides of the isle), and tell me we’re not applying a double standard when a woman uses her good looks for personal gain, and she’s a “slut”, but a male politician who essentially does the same thing is a “good communicator” or knows how to “connect with the audience.”

    Palin was a crappy candidate because she clearly lacked the intellect, experience, background, or common sense to hold the second highest office in the land. Oh – and her ideas sucked. So she was pretty who cares? A lot of women I know think Mitt Romney is good-looking guy (don’t ask me why) but wouldn’t vote for him in a hundred million years because his ideas suck. Why shouldn’t she get the same kind of write off instead of the “she had it coming” argument?

  66. 66
    Betsy says:

    @Skippy-san:
    I don’t know how many times this needs to be said, but for God’s sake, it’s NOT ABOUT PALIN. Or her feelings. Or even about her daughters and their feelings.

    Every time a slut/ugly/MILF/emasculating joke is made about a woman in the public eye, it hurts every single fucking one of us. That’s not about “getting a sense of humor.” It’s about keeping us in our goddammed place. And I get sick and tired of hearing liberal doods apologize for it. If it’s only ok to make slut jokes about women you don’t like, you’re no different than Rush.

    John, I love you more every day.

  67. 67
    Irony Abounds says:

    @Jim Pharo: Actually, Conan is the one who may not survive at 11:30. He only beat Dave by .1 a ratings point last night. His ratings have dropped every night he’s been on and, more to the point, he sucks big time.

    The jokes were inappropriate – although I’m certain Dave was thinking of Bristol and not Willow in the A Rod joke (which really was more a slam of A Rod and not the daughter). I don’t think they were Def Con Level 1 inappropriate, however, and Dave doesn’t suffer fools gladly, and he no doubt views Palin as a fool.

    An additional negative side effect of all this is to keep Palin in the news. I’d much prefer she’d crawl back to Alaska and disappear.

    Finally, even given the inappropriateness of the jokes, I’m so sick of every slam of a woman, even if sexist, being labeled misogynist. IMHO, it’s the equivalent of killing a fly with a cannon. Misogyny requires a hatred of women, and whatever Dave’s faults, and he’d admit they are aplenty, if you’ve watched his shows over the years he shows no signs of hating women. Hyperbole used for a good cause is still hyperbole.

  68. 68
    tballou says:

    Definitely overreacting! I thought the slutty stewardess line was pretty funny and a nice segue from the slutty librarian.

  69. 69
    The Other Steve says:

    BTW… Everything I can find in news articles indicates Sarah Palin attended the Yankees game alone. I can find no specific mention of her family being there. They do mention her family being at the fundraiser she went to later in the day.

    There are pictures of her at the game, but no pictures of her with others besides Guiliani.

  70. 70
    The Other Steve says:

    @Jim Treacher:

    Except that Willow was at the game and Bristol wasn’t. Other than that.

    Can you show me where you got that? I’m not finding it.

  71. 71
    Bondo says:

    @Jim Treacher:

    The reality (which daughter was at the game) is rather irrelevant to the joke. You are naive (or acting so) to try to pretend he was talking about anyone but Bristol. Condemn the joke about Bristol if you wish, but at least don’t distort the premise of the joke to try to claim it is bad.

  72. 72
    gex says:

    deleted by author

  73. 73
    lethargytartare says:

    I assume this “David Letterman” you’re talking about hosts a political commentary show on MSNBC.

    because otherwise the equivalence being drawn here is sub-moronic.

  74. 74
    Brian J says:

    This is pretty much besides the point, but I’ve never quite understood Letterman’s widespread critical appeal. It’s not that he’s not funny. He is, from what I can tell of the few times I’ve seen him. Maybe it’s because I haven’t seen him from when he was after Johnny Carson, or maybe I haven’t given him much of a chance now, but he always seems to be incredibly full of himself. He acts like he’s better than, well, the network and the medium itself. Say what you want about Leno, but he doesn’t strike me as a smug son of a bitch like Letterman.

  75. 75
    The Other Steve says:

    This is the best article/photo I can find.

    The subtitle says:

    Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, ex-Mayor Rudy Giuliani and Giuliani’s wife, Judith, take in ballgame at Yankee Stadium.

    Why would they not show Todd and Willow if they were there, considering they showed Judith? Can someone please answer this.

  76. 76
    tripletee (formerly tBone) says:

    Wow, people are really getting bent out of shape about this? Letterman’s said waaaay meaner stuff in the past. There’s a reason Cher once referred to him on-air as an “asshole.”

    Which is not to say that I thought the jokes were all that funny or in any way appropriate, but it’s Letterman. Just seems weird to me that people are suddenly so shocked after decades of him doing this kind of stuff.

  77. 77
    Silver Owl says:

    Letterman was an asshole. Plain and simple. The whole using women as dog chew toys for stupid power trips of men, who I might point out do not fuck trees, is wretched. It would be nice if we evolved beyond the men have icky poisonous dicks and women are sluts for having sex with men without explicit permission and telling the men they choose to have sex with to go fuck trees instead.

    Point out the hypocrisy of the republicans using sex to sell/vote. Stop with the slut crap. Having sex with men is normal human behavior. Using sex while claiming virginal off limits I am superior is bullshit marketing tactics. Call it what it is. Palin treats republican men like they are the biggest idiots that just fell off the turnip truck, like 5 seconds ago.

    In my opinion, Treacher has the creepiest freaking name for site. “Mother may I sleep with Treacher”. I gag every time I see that. It is revolting on several levels.

    Women do not need to ask their mothers to sleep with anyone. So either Treacher is looking to little girls to sleep with him or he thinks all women are little girls. Extremely high creep factor.

  78. 78
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Bondo:

    14, 18, whatever. Right? That’s what I told the judge, but he didn’t buy it either.

    Willow was at the game. Bristol wasn’t. Letterman joked about a 14-year-old girl getting knocked up by Alex Rodriguez.

    Oh, and I used Google News, the Other Steve. Palin was traveling with her sister, her nephew, Todd, and Willow. Presumably the next step will be for me to produce notarized statements from eyewitnesses.

  79. 79
    JGabriel says:

    DemonDem:

    A lot of women I know think Mitt Romney is good-looking guy (don’t ask me why) but wouldn’t vote for him in a hundred million years because his ideas suck. Why shouldn’t she get the same kind of write off instead of the “she had it coming” argument?

    But Palin is getting a similar write-off. People make jokes about “cowboy” Bush, or about Mitt’s and John Edward’s hair, all the time. Hell, Edward’s and Bill Clinton’s sex life have certainly been targets of equal derision from the right.

    Sorry, but I’m just not seeing the double standard here.

    .

  80. 80
    Jim Treacher says:

    @The Other Steve:

    Why would they not show Todd and Willow if they were there, considering they showed Judith?

    Because of the conspiracy.

  81. 81
    mozo says:

    Granted that it’s bad taste; however, Ms. Palin is obviously trying to use her looks to political advantage. I saw taped interviews with men at her political rallys. They were not shy about saying what they wanted to do with/to her. And she plays to these clods. She also trotted her family out with her when she was on stage like props. If she had any class, she’d kept her family out of the media limelight.

    I do understand how you feel, though.

    A friend recommended your blog to me. Keep up the good work, people!

  82. 82
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Silver Owl:

    Thanks for checking out the blog! I changed the title months ago because I got sick of explaining that it’s a play on an old Tori Spelling TV-movie called “Mother, May I Sleep with Danger?” I figured I’d just picked it at random to be silly, but your thoughtful explanation is probably better.

  83. 83
    Bondo says:

    @Betsy:

    How exactly does someone make a joke about a woman and not be sexist? He couldn’t talk about her intelligence, that would be sexist (it would imply women are not as smart). He can’t talk about her looks, that would be sexist (it would imply women are sex objects). He can’t talk about her personality, that would be sexist (women are bitches, bimbos, etc). That is the fatal flaw of the feminist arguments against jokes, they have not presented a reasonable alternative.

    Jokes are invariably negative, compliments aren’t funny. There are plentiful jokes about men that are every bit as offensive but for lacking the prism of victimhood, jokes that play off gender norms and the like. You tell me a joke about Sarah Palin that I cannot find a way to consider it sexist, and I’ll admit that Dave was out of line here.

  84. 84
    Mayken says:

    @Betsy: Cheers! Thanks, Betsy. You are so right. DemonDem made a similar/connected point for which I thank him or her as well.

  85. 85
    tripletee (formerly tBone) says:

    @Jim Treacher:

    Letterman joked about a 14-year-old girl getting knocked up by Alex Rodriguez.

    You can admit the joke was an obvious reference to Bristol and still clutch those pearls desperately at the horrible inappropriateness of it all, you know. At least then you’d only appear thin-skinned, instead of thin-skinned and intellectually dishonest.

  86. 86
    Jim says:

    Letterman has mocked Romney’s looks, McCain’s looks and age, Al Gore’s weight (and they’re sort of friends, I gather), Bloomberg’s height, pretty much everything about Bill Clinton….

    Yes, there is a different standard of calling a woman “slutty”, but Sarah Palin has never hesitated to race-bait (“Rashid al Khaleedi”, anyone?) distort, demagogue. The woman’s entire political career is built on appeals to fear, bigotry and in general the lowest common denominator. If I were backstage at Letterman, I probably would’ve counseled against this, but it’s awfully hard to feel any sympathy for that odious woman.

  87. 87
    Bondo says:

    @Jim Treacher:

    Thanks for reading my comment, idiot. I specifically said that the reality of who is at the game doesn’t change the fact that the joke was about Bristol. Considering Dave is talking about a fictional situation, why does it need to be bound by who was actually at the game? Maybe it is revealing that you are so quick to assume he was talking about the 14 year old?

  88. 88
    Mr Furious says:

    A bad job by Letterman…his Top 10 List was fine until he got to the “slutty” at number 2.

    The jokes practically write themselves with PAlin, there was no need to cross over to misogynist pig.

    I will say this, about John’s threshold: Hillary and Michelle were the innocent bystander spouses—Palin is the office-holder and barring the sexist garbage, makes herself a fair target.

    Her daughter, however, should remain off-limits.

  89. 89
    kay says:

    Horrible, and not funny.
    Too, kids compare their treatment to that of other kids. It’s how they operate. Comparison is everything. It’s like their one argument. They’re always looking for even-steven, and never finding it, actually. It can never be fair enough.
    The Palin kids will compare/contrast with how they see the other children of politicians treated, and they’ll think it’s unfair. They’ll be right, too.

  90. 90
    HuckleBuckJr says:

    Well, I wonder how he would like it if someone said something like that about his mother or son as a joke? Would he think that is funny? Maybe someone will start up a blog, and have a joke a day about his family, including wholesome stuff like his routine last night. Hey, it’s comedy, and I’m sure he would find it hilarous!

    It is very easy to see why this guy did not get the Tonight Show. He is not even worthy to clean Johnny Carson’s grave. That CBS pays him what they do is no surprise, since they are the same kind of decision-makers as those that are still paying big bucks to the goofballs that wrecked the economy.

    It all really comes down to him needing a target. He is a complete coward, afraid to crack a joke about Obama or his family, and God knows there’s plenty, from his teleprompter to date night to his wife’s garden. Just like every other president, there’s a lot of material there. So, he resorts to stuff like this. As they used to say on Fat Albert, “N.C.”: no class.

  91. 91
    Roger Moore says:

    @Michael D.:

    Sarah Palin was NOTHING but her looks. She was not chosen for ANYTHING having to do with experience, policy, or whatever.

    That is absolutely not true. Her looks may have been a factor, but Palin was mostly chosen to pander to the extremist wingnut vote. She never would have gotten the nod if not for her wacko political views.

  92. 92
    D-Chance. says:

    Every time a slut/ugly/MILF/emasculating joke is made about a woman in the public eye, it hurts every single fucking one of us.

    It doesn’t help the non-fucking among you, either…

  93. 93
    Mayken says:

    @Bondo: He made 9 other jokes that were not sexist. There is plenty of material for jokes without bringing historically misogynist tropes such as the term “slut” into it.

  94. 94
    ▄█▀ █▬█ █ ▀█▀ says:

    That was actually pretty funny. Do let us know when you stop feigning monocle popping outrage over nothing.

  95. 95
    Allan says:

    I laughed. The world didn’t end.

  96. 96
    D-Chance. says:

    BTW, where was this demand for decorum during the generals in 2008 when photoshopped pics of Sarah in a bikini sporting a rifle were being gleefully floated all over the Dimocrat blogsites? Guess sexism and “slut outrage” are variable states, depending on the source and election cycle.

  97. 97
    Little Dreamer says:

    Well, if we can’t even come to a consensus about which daughter he was referring to, it appears the Joke is on David Letterman, he bombed (and I didn’t even have to watch it, yippeee!).

  98. 98

    I think I’d agree, in general, but let’s be honest; no small part of Palin’s appeal to the conservative movement is built on the slutty librarian look, she knows it, and she willfully plays to it. So that makes it someone different, IMO.

    I completely agree that Bristol should be off limits though.

  99. 99
    Jim Treacher says:

    @tripletee (formerly tBone):

    Bristol wasn’t there. Willow was. It’s okay to make a joke about a 14-year-old girl getting raped because her older sister got pregnant? If you say so.

  100. 100
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Bondo:

    Thanks for reading my comment, idiot.

    You’re welcome, grumpy.

    I specifically said that the reality of who is at the game doesn’t change the fact that the joke was about Bristol.

    And you’re specifically wrong. The joke would be about Bristol if Bristol was at the game he was talking about. She wasn’t. Her younger sister was. I realize this is somewhat of an advanced concept.

    Maybe it is revealing that you are so quick to assume he was talking about the 14 year old?

    Not quite as revealing as your desperation to turn it into anything other than the words that came out of the man’s mouth.

  101. 101
    NonyNony says:

    @D-Chance.:

    BTW, where was this demand for decorum during the generals in 2008 when photoshopped pics of Sarah in a bikini sporting a rifle were being gleefully floated all over the Dimocrat blogsites?

    Personally I thought the picture was tasteless and I made sure to tell every fucking Republican I knew who sent me a link to that goddamn photo with the subject line “MILF for VEEP” that I thought so.

  102. 102
    Bondo says:

    @Jim Treacher:

    Considering Dave is talking about a fictional situation, why does it need to be bound by who was actually at the game?

    You left that sentence in my comment out. Odd how you ignore the part of the argument that utterly defeats yours.

  103. 103
    JGabriel says:

    Jim Treacher:

    The joke would be about Bristol if Bristol was at the game he was talking about. She wasn’t. Her younger sister was. I realize this is somewhat of an advanced concept.

    No, it’s an overly literalist concept. Other than that, the joke makes no sense unless it’s about Bristol.

    You’ve made your case that Willow is the target of the joke, and you’ve been repeating the same damn point over and over again. Hardly anyone else agrees with it. Frankly, it sounds intellectually dishonest.

    Time to drop it.

    .

  104. 104
    Rosali says:

    For real lolz, watch Colbert Report now. His show from Iraq is hilarious.

  105. 105
    Allan says:

    After posting my meh response, I noted that the blog ads currently being presented to me on the front page were for

    1. A salacious video of some kind being advertised with a photo showing significant acreage of Pam Anderson’s grotesquely distended mammaries;

    2. Some sort of video game being promoted with an image of a busty medieval wench with a sword plunging into her plunging neckline; and

    3. Ann Coulter.

    Granted, one of these things is not like the other, but it appears that *gasp* sexualized images of women are being used to sell products to the readers of BJ. Who knew that there was sexism in the media? I can’t believe no one noticed any of this until now.

  106. 106
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Bondo:

    Odd how your non sequitur has nothing to do with the fact that David Letterman made a joke about Willow Palin getting knocked up by Alex Rodriguez.

  107. 107
    Mayken says:

    @D-Chance.: Do you mean just on Balloon Juice or in general? I don’t know about BJ since I (sorry!) wasn’t very aware of the site during that time, but plenty of feminist blogs, which as you might expect are generally also liberal so not otherwise big fans of the Palin, were all over it.

  108. 108

    It’s nice that there are a lot of gentlemen about :)

    Hope it’s not just lip service and you’re interested in things like income disparities, etc. Otherwise you’re happy to perpetuate all sorts of wrongness- but you better not call ladies disrespectful names!

    I’m more interested in the real practical issues than name-calling or the jokes of somebody who’s setting out to be outrageous. Looks like he succeeded ;)

  109. 109
    Skippy-san says:

    @Betsy.

    Uh no. Its not about keeping women down. Its about recognizing that you can’t have it both ways. Be recognized as a supposed “good woman” and then engage in the same sleazeball politics the men do.

    Besides-Letterman is just a comedian for God’s sake. I hear worse on cable every day. Besides- I still like the joke.

    When’s dinner? And please bring me my slippers.

  110. 110
    Fern says:

    I didn’t much like the Letterman comments either, but I must say I am experiencing a little cognitive dissonance at reading the post while looking at those chestal protuberances over there in the top left corner.

  111. 111
    Jim Treacher says:

    @JGabriel:

    I don’t think I will, but you’re welcome to keep begging me to.

  112. 112
    JGabriel says:

    @Jim Treacher: Far be it from me to tread on your right to make a dick of yourself.

    .

  113. 113
    DemonDem says:

    JGabriel:

    I cede your point that John Edwards and Mitt Romney and even John “Person of Color” Boehner get their share of jabs from the media for their vanity.

    Even so, with an Edwards or Romney, we acknowledge their vanity, and have our laughs, but it doesn’t seem to devolve to the same level of dismissiveness and mean-spiritedness as it does when the same comment is made about a female public figure. Sarah Palin’s faults are many and egregious – so I guess I see the use of the “she’s a slut” as both lazy and unnecessary – there are many better (and funnier) reasons to give her a hard time.

    I think my broader point is that using a similar line of attack on someone (s/he is vain) provokes very different responses in people depending on the gender of the target. For better or worse, history and social context matter. I find this type of rhetoric applied to Palin objectionable not because it isn’t a factually valid argument (she does use her sexuality for gain), but because in so many other places in our society, gender is used as a cudgel to, as Betsy says, “put women in their place.” Therefore, why go there, especially when she is, in military parlance, a “target rich environment”?

    If you accept that gender is used to demean women in other contexts, then I think it’s fair to say that Letterman’s comment, regardless of its intent, can rub many people the wrong way. Because of this, my preference is to go after Palin for the 1,203,285 other reasons that make her an embarrassment to carbon-based life everywhere.

  114. 114
    Mayken says:

    @Rosali: Thanks for the reminder. Firing up the DVR now!
    Edited to add I love his nod to Bob Hope. And the camo suit.

  115. 115
    Jim Treacher says:

    @JGabriel:

    I’m not sure why you need to resort to personal insults, but I hope it relieves some of your obvious stress.

  116. 116
    Silver Owl says:

    Jim Treacher, thanks for the name change. Good thinking. The old name had way too high of a creep factor.

    Why do American adults use children so poorly? It’s not like Palin is the first and she certainly will not be the last to use her children as props.

    I’m not talking about normal family interaction, but adults parading children as marketing and political gimmicks. I do not understand that.

    America uses children as a major excuse for a lot of legislation. 9 times out of 10 it has nothing to do with the children but the adults wrestling for domination and control over other adults and adults preening for other adults.

    As a nation we’re not that focused on educating our children. We’re not that concerned about addressing the issue of unwanted children and adoption. We’re not that concerned about feeding children. We’re not that concerned about protecting children from abuse. We’re not that concerned about pre-natal care. We’re not that concerned child mortality in their 1st-2nd years of life. We are not the leading nation when it comes to children and keeping them alive, well cared for and healthy.

    We don’t like to even give children health care because we’re more concerned about “adults” fucking over other adults and ripping them off of “profits.” It is adult against adult. Children just happen to be a useful weapon in America.

  117. 117
    Allan says:

    is scratching Jim Treacher’s name off the short list of prospective judges for Last Comic Standing.

  118. 118
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Allan:

    Another child-rape apologist. Step on up.

  119. 119

    […] being overly quick to cry racism a few days ago. Today the right (though not strictly the right) is upset by some jokes from David Letterman about the Palins. He said she goes for a slutty stewardess look and poked fun […]

  120. 120
    Bondo says:

    @Jim Treacher:

    You do realize that this statement is far more offensive than anything David Letterman joked about.

  121. 121
    Allan says:

    Jim, the ghost of Andrea Dworkin just appeared to me in a vision. She asked me to thank you for making her look like a fun-loving gal with a great sense of humor.

  122. 122
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Bondo:

    Not really. Why don’t you explain it to us?

  123. 123
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Allan:

    Your cleverness is matched only by your wit.

  124. 124
    tripletee (formerly tBone) says:

    @Jim Treacher:

    Bristol wasn’t there. Willow was. It’s okay to make a joke about a 14-year-old girl getting raped because her older sister got pregnant? If you say so.

    See, now you look thin-skinned, intellectually dishonest, and douchier than a water tanker truck crashing into a vinegar factory. Congrats, you’re a model citizen of Wingnuttia!

  125. 125
    Jim Treacher says:

    @tripletee (formerly tBone):

    I get it, you’re angry. I don’t have a problem with that.

  126. 126
    Anne Laurie says:

    Given the late mayor’s notorious cross-dressing shenanigans on SNL, it would have been funnier for Dave to claim that A-Rod had knocked up hit on Guiliani during the seventh-inning stretch.

    And that wouldn’t leave some of us wincing in sympathy with a junior-high kid who’s going to have Letterman’s joke thrown at her in the school lunchroom.

    I’d have given the ‘slutty flight attendant’ crack no more than the Hairy Eyeball, but jeesh… sometimes I wish Letterman’s kid had been born a girl.

  127. 127
    someguy says:

    The joke was totally fair game. Bad taste, but fair game. Republicans don’t want their family to get gently needled, perhaps they ought to try to raise their kids with the morals they claim to espouse, leave the kids off the stage at political conventions, or maybe they should just stay out of politics entirely and leave it to people who aren’t so easily offended. How’s hockey dad doing BTW? They still tying the knot? Or are the family values taking another hit here?

    I can’t believe John is swallowing this Michelle Malkin talking point so easily. He must be giddy over the Pens win and a half dozen Iron Citys.

  128. 128
    Allan says:

    @tripletee (formerly tBone): How dare you make fun of douches. Douche jokes are sexist because only women have vaginas; and douching is symbolic rape. You just raped the entire female gender with your joke.

    Please edit your joke to meet the Treacher Thoughtpolice standards.

    May I suggest, “You are fizzier than a Pepsi truck crashing into a Mentos warehouse”?

    See? Comedy doesn’t have to rape children to be funny.

  129. 129
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Allan:

    You have indeed typed many words.

  130. 130
    hamletta says:

    Feh. Not offended.

    I’m the same age as Ms. Palin, so I’m old enough to remember “Coffee, Tea, or Me”? and “Come Fly With Me.”

    The “slutty flight attendant” archetype was put to rest, thankfully, by a lot of hard work by their union, seeing as how they’re hard-working professionals.

    He could have used “stewardess” instead, but whatever.

  131. 131
    Allan says:

    @Jim Treacher: As have you. And all of our words have been read by tens of people. Truly our accomplishment tonight has been nothing short of heroic. Rest well, hero.

  132. 132
    Whispers says:

    I’m going to go with the “overreaction” line of thought here. Letterman has said far worse things about both the Clintons over the years, not to mention President Bush. And for politicians, I think jokes about their appearance are fair.

    The people who should be upset here are flight attendants.

  133. 133
    YellowJournalism says:

    @John Cole: Don’t forget, John, that the Bush twins were “regular” characters on Robot Chicken for a few episodes, too, portrayed in a “Girls Gone Wild” sort of way. Not to mention all the tabloid swipes at their partying ways. The Bush twins got their fair share of Letterman jokes, too, I’m sure.

    As far as the Palin-themed Letterman jokes go, though, I really don’t take too much offense at the “slutty flight attendant” joke, although I don’t think it’s funny because Palin doesn’t strike me as a flight attendant type. (Librarian, maybe? And I think the suggestion of “randy” rather than “slutty” would also make it more funny.) As with almost all of Letterman’s Top Ten Lists, I found maybe only five of the jokes funny. (Keying Tina Fey’s car was funny.) And none of them really laugh-out-loud funny, either.

    The daughter one, even if it’s directed at Bristol Palin, is kind of crude. That might be my anti-A-Rod prejudice coming through, though. No one should have their daughter linked to him. Even Goldie Hawn apparently doesn’t like her daughter being connected to him.

    Maybe that’s the problem: both jokes are just not funny. Therefore, the offensiveness of both just shines on through without any true laughs to lessen the blow.

  134. 134
    Zuzu's Petals says:

    Well, I still remember the brutal Ferraro jokes from back in ’84:

    So what do Reagan and Mondale have in common?

    They both have Bush on the ticket.

    Bada bing.

    (The worst is my ex repeated this in front of our pre-teen son, snortling the whole time…and reminding me all over again why he was my ex.)

  135. 135
    Paleo Pat says:

    Hey John,

    Just thought I’d come over and tell ya that I admire you for standing up and speaking out against this.

    I noticed you didn’t approve the trackback. I wasn’t link whoring, I was serious man.

    Thanks again!

    -Pat

  136. 136
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Allan:

    I like that story. Tell us another.

  137. 137
    JC says:

    I kind of agree on the slutty thing, but your totally wrong on the knocked up thing.

    Once the kid started running around as the poster child for abstinence (after admitting it was unrealistic), she made herself fair game.

    On the slutty thing, it’s out of bounds for political commentators, but not for comedians.

    Comedians have every right to make any joke they want. They have nothing to do with politics officially and I don’t want the god damned comedian police.

    I don’t want Keith Olberman saying Palin is a slut anymore than I want Limbaugh making fun of Pelosi’s looks.

    But, you seriously want comedians to restrict their speech???

    You are an old man and partially retarded.

    Anyone who respects the first George Bush has his head up his ass.

    Plain and simple.

  138. 138
    DC says:

    Sarah Palin NOTHING but for her looks…

    seems very, very close.
    Magazine covers, video, TV-newspaper appeal and overall populism etc. IS rooted on her MILFY good looks.

    Obviously wingnuttia elements in her bag albeit superficial or wip (NRA, religion, conservatism, tent stretching family values….

    If instead… she had political skills and look of Angela Merkel, your comment would be dead on…
    asis, seems like overreaction and defensive fawning,
    esp. a joke about one’s strength.

    double dare Naughty Monkey red high heels just isn’t funny… but subliminal undercurrent?

  139. 139
    Zuzu's Petals says:

    Edit: never mind.

  140. 140
    Allan says:

    @Jim Treacher: Ah, Jim, patience is a virtue.

    I have one thousand and one of them, but you’ll have to wait until tomorrow, or the next time you settle on self-righteous sanctimony as your evening attire, whichever comes first.

  141. 141
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Allan:

    And then what happened?

  142. 142
    Brachiator says:

    Maybe I’m over-reacting, and I know I’m not always perfect, but I’m really losing my patience and tolerance for this kind of stuff. There was no place for this kind of stuff with Hillary and Chelsea, there is no room for it with Michelle and their kids, and the same standard should apply for Sarah Palin and her kids. Hell, it should apply to all women.

    Didn’t have a problem with any of the jokes. I have different standards for professional comedians, who are going for the punchline, than I do for political hacks who hide behind inept attempts at humor, but who are seeking to score political points.

    I got no problem with sexual humor. Letterman still gets mileage out of Bill Clinton jokes.

    I draw the line when it comes to jokes about a politician’s minor children. Letterman’s joke about Palin’s daughter comes close to being tasteless, but is as much about A-Rod as it is about her.

    And recently, Palin’s older daughter has been on her Teen Pregnancy World Tour. This makes her a public figure.

    Context is crucial.

    The idea that women, especially women in the political sphere, should have some special zone of protection when it comes to humor is ridiculous. This is nothing more than old paternalism recast as feminist sensitivity.

    Some humor masks insecurity or cruelty. But sometimes a cigar is just a joke about Monica Lewinsky and Bill Clinton.

  143. 143
    tripletee (formerly tBone) says:

    Please edit your joke to meet the Treacher Thoughtpolice standards.

    This space intentionally left blank.

  144. 144
    Zuzu's Petals says:

    @myiq2xu:

    Actually, it’s likely she’s 15…born in 1994.

    NY Times

  145. 145
    tripletee (formerly tBone) says:

    BTW, I’d like to apologize to any douches for my unfair remark upthread. It was not my intent to cause offense.

  146. 146
    Zuzu's Petals says:

    @tripletee (formerly tBone):

    Why bother. Guy’s a notorious troll and blog whore.

  147. 147
    Jim Treacher says:

    @tripletee (formerly tBone):

    Uh-oh, you’re being repressed!

  148. 148
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Zuzu’s Petals:

    I don’t think that’s any way to talk about Allan, just because he’s having a bad night. Leave him alone.

  149. 149
    Mrs. Polly says:

    All right, I’m going to try to wade in here, staying in the shallows as the subject demands.

    1. I expect Dave will apologize. He frequently acts like a jerk, and then will acknowledge it . You may remember when he apologized profusely to Bill Hicks’ mother for censoring the late comedian, and ran the routine in full.

    2. He obviously meant the older daughter, who has been in the news repeatedly, along with her erstwhile fiancee. Part of his schtick is to feign ignorance of common knowledge, but it’s unlikely he keeps track of Sarah’s children. Most of America outside those of us who know the Webbies from the Bloggies couldn’t tell one Palin child from another. Willow, Bristol, Aspen, Fig— which is a Palin child and which a Celestial Seasonings flavor?

    3. The joke can’t be considered a “rape” joke unless you assume he’s deliberately joking about the 14-year-old, which would make it statutory. Nothing was said about force, so basing your pearl-clutching on a wobbly technicality says more about your eagerness to pearl-clutch than it does about Letterman.

  150. 150
    Allan says:

    @tripletee (formerly tBone): For some reason, it seems many people confuse Treacher with a douche. The best way to tell them apart: only one of them provides effective and satisfying service to women.

  151. 151
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Mrs. Polly:

    Okay, so the joke about the baseball player impregnating the 14-year-old girl at the baseball game she went to with her parents, that doesn’t have any overtones of sexual threat to it whatsoever. Because… well, because you say so. Clutch the pearls indeed.

  152. 152
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Allan:

    Ooh, here comes the good part! And then….?

  153. 153
    Mrs. Polly says:

    Jim Treacher, you certainly know how to dig in on shaky ground.

    You are assuming Letterman knows the age of the daughter. You have NO evidence that he does, except your eagerness to mount, you should pardon the expression, a rather rickety soapbox.

    I don’t think it’s worth going through this spin cycle again.

  154. 154
    Brachiator says:

    @Mrs. Polly:

    I expect Dave will apologize. He frequently acts like a jerk, and then will acknowledge it . You may remember when he apologized profusely to Bill Hicks’ mother for censoring the late comedian, and ran the routine in full.

    Note that Dave apologized for censoring a routine. The mob is calling for censorship. I don’t see Letterman apologizing here, except as noted below.

    He obviously meant the older daughter, who has been in the news repeatedly, along with her erstwhile fiancee.

    I agree. I don’t think that Letterman (or more accurately, his writers) meant to refer to the younger Palin daughter.

    Part of his schtick is to feign ignorance of common knowledge, but it’s unlikely he keeps track of Sarah’s children. Most of America outside those of us who know the Webbies from the Bloggies couldn’t tell one Palin child from another. Willow, Bristol, Aspen, Fig—- which is a Palin child and which a Celestial Seasonings flavor?

    Good one! And cruelty free.

  155. 155
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Mrs. Polly:

    “I didn’t know she was 14, your honor!”

    I was glad Letterman apologized to Bill Hicks’ mom. Too bad it took 15 years.

  156. 156
    Allan says:

    We are truly blessed that Jim Treacher was put here on earth to guide us all by example.

    I’ve learned so much this evening about what’s appropriate and what’s out of bounds where humor about politicians’ families are concerned.

    I’m sure he would be offended by this egregious example I found somewhere on the web, purporting to be Obama’s address to the correspondent’s dinner:

    I kid because I love. Joe’s a good man, good family man. Lovely daughter. You know, Ashley Biden was planning to take the Amtrak down here tonight, but she got distracted at the station by all those huge rails.

    But hey, who am I to talk about family problems? I’d read you the list of all my half-brothers, but it’s longer than the stimulus bill.

    You guys heard about my half-brother Samson, right? Yeah, when he was heading over here for my inauguration, he ran into a… well, a bit of a problem in England. Got kicked out. Turns out they’d already met their weekly quota on child molesters. Oops!

    Another big difference between George Bush and me: His brother used to run a state, and my brother was run out of a country.

    And don’t even get me started on my Auntie Zeituni. I’m the first president to deal with so much hassle from an alien since Independence Day.

    Speaking of the news, interesting item today: A Saudi judge has said it’s okay to slap your wife if she spends too much. [mock-dramatic pause, leans into the mic] And you still wanna know why I bow to them?

    Boy oh boy, I’m in for it now. Should I look? I’m gonna look. [looks over at Michelle] Oof. Yeah, I know. I know. You gotta believe I love you, baby, but next time could you maybe wear the four-hundred-dollar shoes to the homeless shelter? You’re killin’ me out there. [to audience] Oh, man, that was not a good look. I am not looking forward to the ride home.

    Well, it beats making her laugh. Every time she slaps the table, they have to bring out a new table. Know what I mean? [flexes biceps, snarls] But I tell ya, I’ve loved her from the first moment Skynet sent her back in time to kill Sarah Connor.

    Yes, I’m sure Jim Treacher will give that unprincipled ruffian a thorough boxing about the ears.

  157. 157
    Mrs. Polly says:

    Brachiator, thanks, I’m glad you liked it.

    You may remember the Sarah Palin Baby Name Generator. Type in your real name, get the name you were meant to have, if you were fortunate enough to have been born to a wolf-killin’, moose-dressin’, grammar-crunchin’ Republican hottie.

    My Palin name is Rake Trinket Palin, but I prefer to be known as R. Trinket Palin.

    It’s so relatively literary.

    whoops, thunder! Good night, folks!

  158. 158
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @Jim Treacher:

    What’s your game here, friendo? I mean…honestly?

  159. 159
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Midnight Marauder:

    Game? Just discussing the topic at hand. How about yourself?

  160. 160

    I’ve been going through this thread because I saw that the tags were “assholes” and “media”. I guess that “assholes” is accurate, I mean Jim Treacher is here, but I’d also add the tags “pearl clutching” and “fauxtrage” while I was at it.

  161. 161
    Ryan says:

    Thanks for posting, this is bullshit, more of the double standard where women have a hard time getting anywhere unless they live up to certain standards of beauty, and are called sluts when they do. Dave should know better.

  162. 162
    Allan says:

    Treacher’s an oxymoron, specifically a conservative humorist.

    That means he writes shitty jokes about Joe Biden’s daughter and Obama’s half-brother, but jokes about Palin’s brood are offenses against God and America that make Jesus cry.

    He seems to think that in attacking David Letterman, he’s found a shark to which he can attach his remora of a career.

    Fortunately for all of us, there’s only room for one Andrew Breitbart in the world, thus Treacher’s blog-whoring and trolling are all for naught…

  163. 163

    @John Cole

    And I’m not trying to sound like some politically correct scold,

    But despite your lack of trying you’re doing an *outstanding* job at it.

    and I have no problem with comedians being comedians.

    Which is obviously why you wrote a BJ post on how ashamed David Letterman should be because he made a joke, you know, that thing comedians do, about Sarah Palin. Again, could we get a “pearl-clutching” tag added to this post along with “fauxtrage”?

  164. 164
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Allan:

    Yikes. You guys really do seem a bit testy.

    Thanks for reading my shitty jokes, by the way. I’m sure they’re much more offensive than talking about Alex Rodriguez having sex with the underage daughter of someone you despise. The little bimbo should have thought of that before she decided to be born, right?

  165. 165
    Fencedude says:

    You know Treacher, you are getting really repetitive.

    And respond to the damn point about it being Bristol, not Willow for chrissakes, you are making yourself look like an illiterate moron.

    (in before I get accused of advocating child rape)

  166. 166
    Ripley says:

    Oof, hate it when a Balloon Juice thread goes all Red State versus AmericaBlog in The Corner of Firedoglake like this. Not typical, and just weird.

    And what the frak is a “Jim Treacher” anyway? Is it a program of some kind, designed to spit out, er, spit? Me no want.

    (Insert pseudo-pithy “Jim Treacher” automated response below in 5, 4, 3, 2, and….).

  167. 167
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Fencedude:

    If I seem repetitive, it might be because the insults I’m responding to are repetitive.

    And respond to the damn point about it being Bristol, not Willow for chrissakes, you are making yourself look like an illiterate moron.

    Bristol is in Alaska. Which is right next to Yankee Stadium. Okay, now you yell more.

  168. 168

    Oh, and I just read Jim Treacher’s really funny spoof of Obama’s address. You know, the one where he mocks Helen Thomas, Michelle Obama, Ashley Biden and the Saudi treatment of women and I have to say “Jim, you pathetic, hypocritical little Republican bitch!”. Oh, and from looking over the Cheney haiku it appears that Jim is just, shall I say it, a bit queer for our former veep. It’s weird how many conservatives are so queer for a guy who didn’t serve in Vietnam because he had other priorities. Oh wait, I guess that once you consider the fact that the only prominent conservative under the age of 70 who served his country in uniform is George W. Bush, whose valiant service in the Texas Air National Guard kept Dallas safe from the VietCong, it isn’t at all surprising how many conservatives are queer for Cheney.

  169. 169
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Ripley:

    Hi. It’s nice to meet you too. Isn’t that Sarah Palin just the lowest sort of person?

  170. 170
    Allan says:

    @Jim Treacher: Worse? I don’t know if I would go that far. They’re just shitty, let’s leave it at that.

    But a slight majority of our current Supreme Court would probably agree with me that, given your prior writings on the faults and foibles of politicians’ relatives, you should recuse yourself from adjudicating Letterman’s case.

  171. 171
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Wile E. Quixote:

    That is indeed a close reading of the text. I’m a bit disappointed that the Terminator joke didn’t make an impression on you, apparently, but otherwise I fully approve of your rant. It is in no way pearl-clutching or fauxtrage or any of those things.

  172. 172
    Brachiator says:

    @Jim Treacher:

    Okay, so the joke about the baseball player impregnating the 14-year-old girl at the baseball game she went to with her parents, that doesn’t have any overtones of sexual threat to it whatsoever. Because… well, because you say so. Clutch the pearls indeed.

    I just listened to the clip again. Letterman says “her daughter.”

    He doesn’t mention any particular daughter by name.

    Unless there is something else, everyone who is declaring that he is referring to a 14-year old are making crap up.

    As far as I am concerned there is no issue here.

    Move along.

    You may remember the Sarah Palin Baby Name Generator.

    I got Flex Gunship Palin. Oh, well.

  173. 173
    Allan says:

    @Wile E. Quixote: I bow to the master.

    I’ve said it about you to my friends at RumpRoast, so now I’m going to say it to your face:

    If I weren’t already gay married, I would totally ask you to gay marry me.

  174. 174
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Allan:

    Yeah, all them rape jokes I done, har har.

    I’ll recuse myself when I feel like it, and you don’t quite make me feel like it. Not that I would dream of telling you to stop trying.

  175. 175

    @Midnight Marauder

    @Jim Treacher:
    What’s your game here, friendo? I mean…honestly?

    It’s simple, Treacher is another pathetic, conservative link whore like Jules Crittenden.

  176. 176
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Brachiator:

    I just listened to the clip again. Letterman says “her daughter.”

    He doesn’t mention any particular daughter by name.

    I really don’t think he meant Piper, but you could be right.

  177. 177
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Wile E. Quixote:

    Don’t forget about the pearl-clutching and the fauxtrage. Something should be done. Nobody can possibly disagree with you for any good reason, or else why wouldn’t someone of your obvious genius be able to see it?

  178. 178
    Mike says:

    Except that Willow was at the game and Bristol wasn’t.

    And his joke writers made sure to check on which of her kids were at the game, because they’re fanatics for getting the facts straight. (Could this guy Treacher be any dumber?)

  179. 179
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Mike:

    And his joke writers made sure to check on which of her kids were at the game, because they’re fanatics for getting the facts straight.

    They knew one of her three daughters was there. If your point is that they’re too stupid and lazy to make sure it was the one who’s over 18 before writing a joke about her being impregnated by an MLB player at the game, I’m not sure how that’s more complimentary to them.

  180. 180
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Mike:

    By the way, thanks for yet another variation on “Why are you disagreeing with me even though I’m insulting you?” We’re building up quite a collection here.

  181. 181
    Brachiator says:

    @Jim Treacher:

    They knew one of her three daughters was there. If your point is that they’re too stupid and lazy to make sure it was the one who’s over 18 before writing a joke about her being impregnated by an MLB player at the game, I’m not sure how that’s more complimentary to them.

    Yep. Comedy writers are lazy and stupid. As far as I can tell by the IMDB entry, the 2008 Late Show writing staff does not include any women.

    I think that if the staff included women writers (as it had in the past), they either would have omitted the joke, or avoided any ambiguity. Maybe not. They still might have been stupid.

    In short: Maria Sotomayor wins again. Sometimes a female perspective helps.

  182. 182
    Allan says:

    @Mike:

    (Could this guy Treacher be any dumber?)

    Yes. He could. He’s not being dumb. He’s being opportunistic.

    The reason he is so irritating is that he is consciously choosing to presume the most malign intent possible on the part of Letterman and his writers, whom he accuses of consciously making a joke that no one would find funny if the thought even occurred to them that it targeted the younger daughter in any way.

    Reasonable people assume Letterman’s “knocked up” reference was to the adult daughter who has already been notoriously knocked up. Because comedy works by playing on what is common cultural knowledge. For the audience, knowing which, or whether any, daughter accompanied Sarah to the ballpark is immaterial.

    Sarah Palin => knocked up older daughter => easy A-Rod joke.

    Sarah Palin => younger daughter about whom people have no particular impression => having sex with A-Rod => not funny.

    Treachery just slit his own throat with Occam’s razor.

    But don’t worry, Treachery won’t let that stop him from his crusade. Be sure and check out how many Tweets he’s sent out on this topic. Why, you would think that he sees an opportunity to move up from #89 on some stupid list of shitty “political” websites or something…

  183. 183

    It only took 145 (+40 in composition) comments but I’d give this one a prize for the stupidest thread since ’05. Let me see if I can get this right, humor is officially completely dead if it involves using sex to sell a product or an unmarried teen mommy as a poster child for abstinence education?

    I’ll be go to hell.

    The most common trope in situation comedies for decades has been a terminally stupid white male father figure and you all have your knickers in a knot over this small change. I’m less than sure Letterman is all that funny, but this mess would be funny if it lacked earnestness. I laugh at Tim the Toolman partly because I own a lot of very powerful tools and build and race fast pretty cars – I am the butt of his joke and I think it’s funny. The presence or lack of a vagina doesn’t make you immune from being the butt of a joke, especially if you engage in the behavior. How many of the offended here sell themselves as professionals by mincing and winking and almost offering up their goodies? You don’t? Then you ain’t the butt of the joke – get over it.

    How many of you are unmarried teen moms parading yourselves as the benefit of abstinence education? Nope? Get the fuck over it. It involves a really tiny minority of really stupid very public behavior and it deserves to be the butt of endless jokes. It isn’t about the female gender it is about ludicrously stupid behavior and if you ain’t doing it you ain’t involved.

    I seem to remember some damn post about scolds and … so nobody got the point?

  184. 184
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Allan:

    Just because you think no one would find it funny doesn’t mean no one would find it funny. Plenty of comedians have made plenty of jokes about the Palins that I can’t imagine anyone finding funny, but some people do. I don’t see why I should give the Late Show staff the benefit of the doubt, or assume that there’s anybody there who can tell Letterman “No.”

    But hey, you’re the humor expert!

    P.S. Yes, please check out my tweets and do whatever other oppo research you think you need to do. It’s all about trying to discredit people you don’t like, and I highly encourage the effort. I would check out your blogging and so forth, except I don’t particularly care.

  185. 185
    Jim Treacher says:

    By the way, “slit his own throat with Occam’s razor” proves nothing except that you know razors are sharp and can spell “Occam.”

  186. 186
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Brachiator:

    Before you said there was no issue. Now you’re saying that there’s an issue, but it’s probably just because they’re stupid. I suppose that’s progress.

  187. 187

    sometimes I take BOB seriously, but this Creature fool?

  188. 188
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Chuck Butcher:

    Truly, a riposte that will echo in the halls of legend.

  189. 189

    @Jim Treacher

    Hi. It’s nice to meet you too. Isn’t that Sarah Palin just the lowest sort of person?

    Oh, come now, she’s not all bad, before she came along the only thing that Rich Lowry had to masturbate see little starbursts over were Ann Coulter’s book covers and the Michelle Malkin cheerleader video.

  190. 190
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Wile E. Quixote:

    It’s like Mad Libs. Here, let me try:

    “Oh, come now, she’s not all bad, before she came along the only thing that [Glenn Reynolds] had to masturbate see (sic) little starbursts over were [Mark Levin]’s book covers and the [Mary Katharine Ham] [bowling] video.”

    And the best part is that you don’t have to think about any of it! I can see the appeal.

  191. 191
    MTmofo says:

    C’mon John, you’re just engaging in reverse sexism. /snark

  192. 192
    Allan says:

    @Jim Treacher: I’m simply applying a “reasonable person” standard to the situation, which naturally excludes your point of view from the mix.

    Good luck storming the Letterman castle!

  193. 193
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Allan:

    And I’m saying that Letterman has shown he’s not a reasonable person. Do you really think he’s not going to do exactly what he wants to do?

  194. 194

    @Chuck Butcher: Evidently this fool isn’t acquainted with BOB.

  195. 195
    goodlawd says:

    @Treacle: Do you miss those playground beatings of your youth this much? Jeezuz, stfu and go blog at your place.

    @John C: banhammer, please. You aren’t the government and are under no obligation to protect the 1st amendment. (More like a bartender . . . 86 this fuck. He’s obviously intoxicated on something . . . someone mentioned “douche” up-thread.)

  196. 196
    Allan says:

    Wow, you fail to grasp both Occam’s Razor and the “reasonable person” standard. You’re not as bright as I gave you credit for above. I apologize for suggesting that you were cleverly exploiting a situation for personal benefit. Can it be that you are actually stupid enough to believe that Letterman was targeting Palin’s younger child in his joke? Seriously?

    Really, I apologize. I thought I was tangling with a wily adversary, not mocking the cognitively disabled. My bad.

  197. 197
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Allan:

    “You’re stupid because you’re dumb!” Yeah, you’ve done that one. It’s terrific, really.

    Are you actually naive enough to believe Letterman wasn’t targeting Palin’s younger child in his joke? Seriously?

  198. 198
    Nash says:

    Y’know, I hate to disagree here, but . . .

    Why is this not funny, but every single “Guys only want to sleep with women and nothing else” joke is amusing?

    Double standard? You’re soaking in it!

  199. 199
    Allan says:

    @Jim Treacher: (backing slowly toward the exit, using my most soothing and comforting tone of voice)

    There, there, Jim, it’s all right. Yeah sure, that mean Letterman was clearly attacking a child. What else could he have possibly meant? When you’re right, you’re right… Hey, isn’t that Bristol over there?

    (ducks out of the room)

    Yikes. Remind me to stay off of BJ after midnight.

  200. 200
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Allan:

    Good stuff.

    Now, then: Your argument is that Letterman didn’t mean it the way it came out because nobody could possibly mean it the way it came out. This is not quite the unassailable fortress of logic you seem to think it is.

    It is quite possible, given Letterman’s history with people he doesn’t like (Oprah, Limbaugh, the McCain campaign in general), and given the temperament he’s shown over the years, that he could become so angry and frustrated with Palin for not booking his show that he would make a very cruel joke about her 14-year-old daughter. And that he would make another one the next night, as he just did.

    You think such a thing is impossible because you wouldn’t do it. I think it’s possible even though I wouldn’t do it. If you want to tell yourself that gives you a better read on it, you do that.

  201. 201
    Allan says:

    @Jim Treacher: Allan has left the room. You’re now talking to yourself.

  202. 202
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Allan:

    Well, it’s not like you were operating in good faith to begin with. Why start now?

  203. 203
    what the says:

    Treacher has a blog called “Mother May I Sleep With Treacher”. YAWN. Pull the plank out of your eye, pedophile, and keep walking.

  204. 204
    JGabriel says:

    Jim Treacher:

    I’m not sure why you need to resort to personal insults, but I hope it relieves some of your obvious stress.

    That’s pretty rich coming from someone calling everyone who disagrees with him in this thread a “child-rape apologist”.

    I stand by my original assessment of “dick” and add “jackass” to the mix.

    .

  205. 205
    DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal) says:

    I asked the wife and daughter about it and they basically said ‘who gives a shit?’. I agree.

    I stand by my original assessment of “dick” and add “jackass” to the mix.

    I second the motion.

  206. 206
    Jim Treacher says:

    @JGabriel:

    Well, not everyone.

  207. 207
    Little Dreamer says:

    Must be the full moon that turned this thread into an utter trainwreck (glad I wasn’t much of a part of this one).

  208. 208
    JGabriel says:

    DemonDem:

    Even so, with an Edwards or Romney, we acknowledge their vanity, and have our laughs, but it doesn’t seem to devolve to the same level of dismissiveness and mean-spiritedness as it does when the same comment is made about a female public figure. […] If you accept that gender is used to demean women in other contexts, then I think it’s fair to say that Letterman’s comment, regardless of its intent, can rub many people the wrong way.

    Can’t argue with that. It obviously has rubbed some people the wrong way as shown in this thread.

    I don’t approve of using the word “slut”, either. I never use it myself, since it’s mainly a word men call women who are getting laid more than them. Which means to call someone a slut basically announces to the world that you aren’t getting any.

    So yeah, it’s inappropriate and rude – but this is comedy we’re discussing here, which, as Steve Martin famously said, is not pretty. And I’m still not seeing a double standard.

    Republicans were calling Bill Clinton “Slick Willie” long before Monica Lewinsky came along, and it’s hard to argue that’s any less “mean”, “dismissive”, or “demeaning” than “slutty” – which was also a word applied to Clinton. Hell, most of us thought calling Palin “Bible Spice” was brilliantly witty, but comparing Palin to a pop group of women mostly known for being scantily clad hardly seems any less dismissive than “slutty”, nor much different in meaning.

    That said, if we’re retiring the word “slut” as obscenely demeaning to a specific group (women in this case), as we’ve already done with “fag”, “kike”, etc., I’m actually ok with that, and could agree with idea that Letterman shouldn’t have gone there on that basis. Short of that, though, the argument wouldn’t, or doesn’t, hold up.

    .

  209. 209
    DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal) says:

    I have to laugh a bit about the ‘slut’ slur because I have known guys who were absolute sluts and I have told some of them they were so. One was a roomie of mine.

    They take it as a compliment.

  210. 210
    JGabriel says:

    Whispers:

    The people who should be upset here are flight attendants.

    Seconded.

    .

  211. 211
  212. 212
    JGabriel says:

    Mrs. Polly:

    You have NO evidence that he does, except your eagerness to mount, you should pardon the expression, a rather rickety soapbox.

    ‘Ware the splinters!

    .

  213. 213
  214. 214
    Phil says:

    OK, some 200-odd comments in, everyone here understands the difference between saying that someone is “a slut,” and saying she dresses like “a slutty stewardess,” right? I’m asking because it appears a great many of you do not.

    Lots of women, every Halloween, dress up as “a slutty X.” (Cop, nurse, witch, etc.) Does that make those women “sluts?”

    NB: The single and trivially obvious answer is “no.”

  215. 215
    John Cole says:

    This thread sucks.

    And yes, Treacher is a flaming hypocrite, but that doesn’t change what I think about Letterman making jokes about Palin’s kids and what not.

  216. 216
  217. 217
    D-Chance. says:

    And while Treacher is busy trolling the Juicers… Roy Edroso is busy tearing him a new one.

  218. 218
    Jim Treacher says:

    @D-Chance.:

    It’s the old one; he just knows where I keep it.

  219. 219
    Betsy says:

    @Bondo:
    That’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever read. Of course you can make fun of her intelligence – no one ever accused Tina Fey of being sexist for her treatment of Palin, to my knowledge. And if you can’t understand why jokes about being slutty are sexist, I really can’t help you. That’s like the whiners who say “we can’t make fun of a black person without being called racist!!” Well, that’s strange, because a lot of people manage to do so.
    @Skippy-san:

    Uh no. Its not about keeping women down. Its about recognizing that you can’t have it both ways. Be recognized as a supposed “good woman” and then engage in the same sleazeball politics the men do.

    No, it’s not about recognizing that you can’t have it both ways. I’m delighted to see Palin mocked for her sleazeball politics, for her know-nothingism, for her shameless pandering to the lowest common denominator. That is different from calling her a slut.

  220. 220
    Nikki says:

    Through all of this, how come no one has pointed out that Jim Treacher has absolutely no idea whether Willow Palin was at the baseball game? He’s simply assuming it since he saw a report that Willow was traveling with her mother.

  221. 221
    Jack Roy says:

    I only read the first twenty or so comments, so I don’t at all know if it’s just me, but I was completely underwhelmed when I actually watched the clips linked above, after having read the reaction. They were both toss-offs, careless rather than mean-spirited, and I just don’t get it as a big deal.

    But again maybe it’s just me.

  222. 222
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Nikki:

    There are multiple reports that Willow was there. If not, where was she? And why would Letterman make a joke about a Palin daughter being there, if the only Palin daughter on the Eastern Seaboard, Willow, wasn’t there?

  223. 223
    Phil says:

    And why would Letterman make a joke about a Palin daughter being there, if the only Palin daughter on the Eastern Seaboard, Willow, wasn’t there?

    Wait, comedians are limited to making jokes only about things that actually happened in actual, real life? When the fuck was this rule made? When did we start fact-checking jokes?

    Do you even understand what a “joke” is?

  224. 224
    Phil says:

    Guys, back at the Alfred E. Smith Dinner John McCain joked, ““Events are moving fast in my campaign and yes, it’s true that this morning I’ve dismissed my entire team of senior advisers. All of their positions will be now be held by a man named Joe the Plumber.”

    BUT JOE THE PLUMBER WAS NEVER EVEN ON THE MCCAIN PAYROLL WTF THIS WASN’T EVEN TRUE HOW DARE HE? HOW DOES HE MAKES JOEKS ABOUT THINGS THAT NEVER HAPPENED?

  225. 225
    DemonDem says:

    I’ve never actually bothered to post on this or any other blog before, so let’s just say this is not the nmost auspicious of beginnings…

  226. 226
    Paul L. says:

    When did we start fact-checking jokes?

    When progressives started quoting Jon Stewart, Steven Colbert, Tina Fey and Will Ferrell as authorities.
    Rush Limbaugh is a “entertainer” so when will progressives will stop fact-checking him?

  227. 227
    Pious Agnostic says:

    First off, I’d like to (sincerely) congratulate Jim Treacher for his brilliant performance on this thread. May I break it down for the folks who don’t understand?

    Jim took a Letterman joke which, as someone said, any reasonable person would assume involved Bristol Palin, whose public pregnancy everyone remembers, and A-Rod, a public philanderer. Distasteful and mostly unfunny, but that’s hardly uncommon in the air-tight little world of late night joke telling.

    Next, Jim employed the standard leftist response to any humor that targets a sacred cow: assume the worst possible intent and interpretation, build up a straw man, and then attack it. Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it. Be indomitable in defense of your position, in defiance of all argument and reason. Repeat your argument (“The joke was about child-rape!”) until it attaches as part of the meta-discussion of the issue. (“Critics say that Letterman’s supporters are child-rape apologists.”)

    Is this crazy? Sure. But it isn’t any more crazy than, say, “Bush had no exit strategy in Iraq” or “Palin thinks Russia can be seen from her house” or “McCain is exactly like Bush.” All these false ideas were/are routinely thrown in support of the opposition, and none of these ideas have any more basis than “Letterman was making a joke about child rape.” Didn’t you notice?

    Get with it people. And, good job Jim. I’m sorry to show these folks how the trick is done, but really I was getting embarrassed for them.

  228. 228
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Phil:

    Wait, comedians are limited to making jokes only about things that actually happened in actual, real life?

    Would Letterman have made that joke if one of Palin’s daughters hadn’t been there? Isn’t the joke that it’s Palin’s daughter, and everybody knows Palin’s daughter got knocked up?

    Do you even understand what a “joke” is?

    More than you understand what denial is, obviously.

  229. 229
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Phil:

    Is this the same Phil who was insisting that Letterman made the Alex Rodriguez joke in the Top 10 list, not the monologue? Because I think you might require more help than I’m licensed to give you.

  230. 230
    Phil says:

    Would Letterman have made that joke if one of Palin’s daughters hadn’t been there?

    Well, since it’s a counterfactual we’re arguing about here, howzabout I say “yes” and you say “no” and see where that gets us?

    Is this the same Phil who was insisting that Letterman made the Alex Rodriguez joke in the Top 10 list, not the monologue? Because I think you might require more help than I’m licensed to give you.

    Oh, you’re right, the “slutty flight attendant” joke was in the Top Ten, whereas the daughter joke was in the Top Ten. MEA CULPA PLEEZ TO NOT WITHHOLD YOUR WISDOM FROM ME JIM TREACHER.

  231. 231
    NobodySpecial says:

    Jim Treacher makes me LOL IRL.

  232. 232
    Phil says:

    second “Top Ten” s/b “monologue,” obvs.

  233. 233
    DougJ says:

    Don’t forget, John, that the Bush twins were “regular” characters on Robot Chicken for a few episodes, too, portrayed in a “Girls Gone Wild” sort of way.

    I’m convinced. The media really was out to get those two.

  234. 234
    Krista says:

    I guess I just hate the word “slut”. Always have. It’s a damn ugly word, and it’s traditionally always been used to demean a woman who has the temerity to not completely hide her sexuality.

    When I was in high school, it was used against girls who wore too much makeup, regardless of whether they did anything sexual or not. Or, it was used against girls who dated around and didn’t have a long-term boyfriend, even if they didn’t actually DO anything sexual on those dates. Later on, I’ve seen it used against women who “date like a man”, and who don’t either hide their sexual desires, or don’t act ashamed of them.

    “Slut” is a very loaded word in our culture, and it’s hurtful as hell. And yes, I’ve had it directed at me before, solely because I dated a lot in college as opposed to having one steady boyfriend. And once you have the “slut” moniker used against you, it sticks, and it really does change you in other peoples’ eyes. Once you’re branded as a slut, nothing else you do matters, as far as other people are concerned.

    The “nice girl”/”slut” compartmentalizing is still very alive and well, and really, all it does is reduce a woman to nothing more a vagina.

    So it’s a nasty term, it’s a hateful term, it’s a hurtful term, and I expected better of Dave, and I expected better of the commenters here. But, maybe you just didn’t understand.

  235. 235
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Phil:

    Well, since it’s a counterfactual we’re arguing about here, howzabout I say “yes” and you say “no” and see where that gets us?

    Okay, I guess.

    Oh, you’re right, the “slutty flight attendant” joke was in the Top Ten, whereas the daughter joke was in the monologue. MEA CULPA PLEEZ TO NOT WITHHOLD YOUR WISDOM FROM ME JIM TREACHER.

    Well, you argued rather forcefully that it was the opposite, and you seemed a bit accusatory about it. But no hard feelings, yeah?

  236. 236
    gil mann says:

    What the hell, did everyone get together and decide to let Treacher have a defensible position for once?

    It was bad enough when he was the only winger in the continental US with a grasp of irony; now there’ll be no living with the guy.

  237. 237
    Jim Treacher says:

    It’s your turn to do the dishes. I’ll dry.

  238. 238
    Nikki says:

    Treacher, there are numerous reports that say Willow was traveling with her mother. There are none that say she was at the baseball game. Please link to any report that says she was at the game.

  239. 239
    Q says:

    You know what’s the most pathetic thing about this thread? That Mr. Treacher made his first comment at 10:21 pm yesterday, and has apparently stayed up the entire night (latest comment at 8:23 am) discussing a lame joke on a late-night comedian’s talk show. That’s time well-spent.

  240. 240
    Jim Treacher says:

    Keep hope alive, Nikki. Keep hope alive.

  241. 241
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Q:

    You know what’s the most pathetic thing about this thread?

    That you care when I started discussing the topic, and how I take my exercise.

    But as long as you’re working on it: Word count. Move it.

  242. 242

    The second Sarah Palin winked at me during the VP debate she lost her right to be offended by people making fun of the fact that she tries to cash in on her looks. “Slutty” was a poor choice of words but WTF, it is Letterman. He should be more ashamed of his Uma Opara bit.

    Also, anyone who thinks Letterman is making a joke about statutory rape is a crazy person. Thank you.

  243. 243
    physics geek says:

    @Jim Treacher:

    I think it’s more pathetic that no one in the comments has bothered to comment on Dave’s doubling down. I guess calling a teenage girl a prostitute instead of calling for statutory rape is a step up for Dave. Maybe his next joke will be about selling Willow into white slavery. Should be a real knee-slapper.

  244. 244
    Jim Treacher says:

    Also, anyone who thinks Letterman is making a joke about statutory rape is a crazy person.

    I’ll be sure to inform the editors of the New York Times.

  245. 245
    You Can't Put Lipstick On A Repig says:

    Shorter Jim Treacher: Can I get a cookie now?

  246. 246
    Ron Chusid says:

    It really is irrelevant as to who was at the game. It is just the format for the jokes as Letterman throws whoever he wants to joke about into going at the game with him.

    Monday night he joked about Bristol. His jokes about a Palin daughter and pregnancy are clearly about Bristol, regardless of whether she was there.

    Tuesday night Letterman joked about Rudy Giuliani going to the game with her (saying both were sitting on the far right). It also doesn’t matter whether Giuliani was there was her.

    Tonight it is possible he will make a joke using the format of going to the game with Sarah Palin to joke about someone else who was not there. This is a common type of format for Letterman’s jokes.

    This isn’t really about the specific jokes or who was at the game. Late night comedians are a prominent form of knocking the establishment, regardless of political party. Right wingers are just spreading lies about what Letterman said because they object to such freedom of expression. Defending free speech does not mean picking and choosing which speech is allowable.

    Since they have little to attack with they are resorting to lying about Letterman’s jokes. First they are lying in claiming that Monday’s joke was about Willow as opposed to Bristol and that it was about rape. There are also lies appearing on line about Tuesday night’s jokes.

  247. 247
    slightly_peeved says:

    Meh. People who are funny are going to offend people.

    Sometimes I get to laugh at the people who are offended, and sometimes I’m gonna be the one who is offended for the amusement of everyone else.

    If getting five or ten funny jokes means that I get one offensive joke from time to time, I’ll take that.

    I mean, according to Flight of the Conchords, my country is proud of its rapist (and racist) heritage. They told a rapist joke about my whole damn country.

    It was funny as hell.

  248. 248
  249. 249
    tripletee (formerly tBone) says:

    @Krista:

    So it’s a nasty term, it’s a hateful term, it’s a hurtful term, and I expected better of Dave, and I expected better of the commenters here. But, maybe you just didn’t understand.

    Point taken (side note: I think you’re going to be an excellent mother, because that was one of those gentle, patient scoldings that leaves you feeling much worse than someone yelling at you).

    I was just surprised that you (or anyone else) would expect better of Dave, who can be a complete flaming asshole on his best days. It’s like being surprised when the sun comes up, or when Jim Treacher spams a thread like a coked-up hamster slamming the bar in his cage for another pellet.

  250. 250
    You Can't Put Lipstick On A Repig says:

    Ann Coulter: “Edwards is a faggot!”

    (slight firestorm, muted since the MSM is so right-wing)

    Ann Coulter: “I was just joking! Can’t you libs take a joke? What losers you all are!!!”
    ———————————-
    David Letterman: “This is a joke …..”

    (firestorm by deranged Oxycontin addict-followers)

    ????????????
    ———————————-

    This has been another episode of “Hypocritical Wingnuts”. Tune in again in .04 seconds for the next episode. This series will never be cancelled.

  251. 251
    Tom65 says:

    I’m a little late to the game here, but am I really supposed to give a fuck that:

    – Letterman made a stupid joke; and
    – Treacher is trying to go meta with it?

    Christ on a cracker, go get yourself a fucking juice box and calm the fuck down.

  252. 252
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Tom65:

    I will indeed try to calm the, as you say, fuck down. Fortunately, I have the example of all you fully centered Zen masters to guide me.

  253. 253
    Krista says:

    Point taken (side note: I think you’re going to be an excellent mother, because that was one of those gentle, patient scoldings that leaves you feeling much worse than someone yelling at you).

    Heh — I’m much more patient and eloquent in writing than I am in person. With the kids, I fully expect to holler at them on multiple occasions. I have with my nephews, but maybe it’ll be different with my own kids — we’ll see.

    I was just surprised that you (or anyone else) would expect better of Dave, who can be a complete flaming asshole on his best days.

    I don’t watch Dave often enough to really know, to be perfectly honest. I do hear other people talking about him being smart and funny, and usually, smart people don’t need to go for the cheap shots like that, so I guess that’s why I was surprised.

  254. 254
    Jim Treacher says:

    @tripletee (formerly tBone):

    I get where you’re coming from, man. Everybody’s mellowing out.

  255. 255
    Timmy Mac says:

    Generally speaking, if you ever find yourself in the position of telling people that what they thought was funny isn’t actually funny, you are probably wrong.

  256. 256
    Kevin Hayden says:

    I definitely think Letterman has to apologize. To A-Rod. I mean, just because he used steroids doesn’t mean his judgment is so clouded that he’d actually consider having sex with a Palin.

    Or an Alaskan.

    Or a Republican.

    Poor taste? Sexist? Politically incorrect? All I heard was a cheap toss-off wisecrack, common to the ranks of stand-ups and late night talk show hosts. It doesn’t have to be anything more than that unless one’s desperate to censor everybody to protect us with the immorality code they wish to impose on all of us because we’re so obviously in need of reforming.

    Control freaks are like that.

  257. 257
    You Can't Put Lipstick On A Repig says:

    Shorter Jim Treacher: I posted the most on this thread! I win! This is almost as important as the time I got 25,000 on Tetris!

  258. 258
  259. 259
    tripletee (formerly tBone) says:

    @Krista:

    I have with my nephews, but maybe it’ll be different with my own kids—we’ll see.

    Nothing wrong with a good holler when the occasion demands. And that way you can save the calm “I’m not mad, I’m disappointed” card for the really serious stuff and it’ll be twice as devastating.

    I don’t watch Dave often enough to really know, to be perfectly honest. I do hear other people talking about him being smart and funny, and usually, smart people don’t need to go for the cheap shots like that, so I guess that’s why I was surprised.

    I don’t watch Letterman much either, but his schtick ossified at least 15 years ago – he alternates between “smart and funny” and “petulant little prick.”

  260. 260
    El Tiburon says:

    DAVE LETTERMAN IS A FUCKING COMEDIAN.

    GODDAMN SETTLE THE FUCK DOWN.

    THEY FUCKING FIRED RHANDI RHODES FROM AIR AMERICA FOR CALLING HILLARY A BITCH. GET IT???

    OMG!!! DAVE LETTERMAN CROSSED THE FUCKING LINE!!!!

    BUNCH OF FUCKING CRYBABIES.

    Ok, now that I’m chilled a bit, are we saying comedians can’t make off-color jokes about politicians?* Really? Hey, Dave Letterman DOES NOT EQUAL Rush Limbaugh. He doesn’t speak for the Democratic party. He hosts a late-night COMEDY fucking show.

    Sorry JC, what a pathetic post and yes you over-reacted.

    Talk about WATB.

    Fucking incredible.

    Good thing George Carlin is dead. Otherwise you all would have just put him in his grave. Pulling this shit at a political convention is one thing, but on a COMEDY SHOW? Fucking please.

    *Agreed kids under 18 are off-limits. That is why Rush Limbaugh is truly a BIG FAT IDIOT.

  261. 261
    Neo says:

    You know .. I just might have been able to believe you about being disgusted with the Letterman jokes and that “it should apply to all women” … if it weren’t for the Pamela Anderson “extreme video” ad that appears just to the left of your post.

    I know these ads come in randomly, but .. shit .. get a clue.

  262. 262
    Pious Agnostic says:

    Neo – you do know that the Pam Anderson ad is for PETA, right?

  263. 263
    slightly_peeved says:

    I don’t watch Dave often enough to really know, to be perfectly honest. I do hear other people talking about him being smart and funny, and usually, smart people don’t need to go for the cheap shots like that, so I guess that’s why I was surprised.

    Matt Groening’s a genius, but after that many seasons of The Simpsons, no human being would be funny enough to not produce a few clunkers. Or a few that delve into cheap stereotypes. Or the occasional festering turd straight from Satan’s portaloo (Simpsons v. Australia, I’m looking at you).

    I think the simple solution to this is that people shouldn’t host the same show, telling jokes in the same format, for that long. Shows that last that long just run out. They either start going for the odd cheap shot, or they just stop being funny and hope no-one notices. Since the people who don’t mind the second are probably already watching Conan O’Brien, Letterman has to go for the first.

    There’s maybe one guy in the world who’s able to produce that much material without getting stale or unfunny. Sadly, the poor bugger’s got Alzheimer’s now, but if you want to try one of his Discworld books, I think a few people here have suggestions for which ones to read.

  264. 264
    Ken says:

    Ditto on Rosali at #104. The comic routines are great, but still work in the politics. I’m also watching for the guest appearances; Monday he had Obama and McCain, and Tuesday he had Bill Clinton and George Bush (the elder).

  265. 265
    Tsulagi says:

    Looking at memeorandum it’s clear last night Greater Wingnuttia were happy dancers at their victimhood rave. Starbursts.

    Played the Letterman clip. Pretty sure he was talking about Bristol and A-Rod. The joke, such as it was, makes sense in that context. Bristol, an Abstinence School alum (I’m guessing she wasn’t chosen to be valedictorian) and the philandering shortstop. But that doesn’t work best for maximum victim quotient for nuttians so Willow it is.

    Why do wingnuts hate Bristol Palin?

  266. 266
    Ulises Jorge says:

    @DemonDem:

    “Palin used attractiveness as part of her whole political persona – and I personally found it revolting that so many people fell for it – but look at all the tanned, well-coiffed, million-dollar-smile male politicians (on both sides of the isle), and tell me we’re not applying a double standard..”

    I wonder who could you be talking about

  267. 267
    kc says:

    Treacher at 11:45 p.m.: “I’m not sure why you need to resort to personal insults”

    Treacher at 11:52 p.m.: “Another child-rape apologist.”

  268. 268
    HyperIon says:

    @Little Dreamer:

    David who? I’ve seen him maybe 20 times in the last 25 years, seriously.

    My take also.
    And the reason I’ve not watched him more is that he never seemed very funny. The top 10 thing is rather dated.

    Another aspect of American popular culture that I do not get.

  269. 269
    Jim Treacher says:

    @kc:

    Everybody’s cooling out, man, relax.

  270. 270
    Neo says:

    Pious Agnostic: I don’t care if it for The Mormon Tabernacle Choir

  271. 271
    ricky says:

    “Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly? Because her father is Janet Reno.” Joke told by John McCain during Clinton presidency.

  272. 272
    Rhonda says:

    You guys are missing the point here. I don’t care who else has done it or how old or young the girl is, this is a reflection on the character of Dave Letterman and it isn’t a very good one. I have watched him for quite a while until this election when he has become a dumb a** and has in my opinion become more angry than funny in his attempt at humor. It WILL become his downfall just like all the other actors/actresses that let their anger get the best of them. I mean it’s pretty petty and childish behavior. Hey Dave, get over it will ya? It’s gonna give ya another heart attack getting all upset over something you have no control over and Palin isn’t any skin off your nose. What’s up with these crazy libs anyway? Geez!

  273. 273
    Rhonda says:

    When a comedian starts getting more vindictive than comedy in their shows, they risk their careers. This just makes no sense to me. I had a business for 30 years and you just grin and bear it when a customer talks religion, politics or any other high charged topic. Your focus is on your job and NOT losing customers, viewers….. This is the sort of thing that always, ALWAYS ends up costing YOU! Worth it? Not to me. Maybe Dave’s ready to retire.

  274. 274

    […] Wake Up, America, who have a nice round-up, kudos to John Cole. Posted by Dan Collins @ 5:14 am | Trackback SHARETHIS.addEntry({ title: “Letterman Fallout [Dan […]

  275. 275
    ▄█▀ █▬█ █ ▀█▀ says:

    Not to turn this into a Leno v. Letterman thing, but Letterman is a sharp man who is willing to tell a good joke despite what the tight-ass women’s studies departments across the nation have to say. Jay is simple a brown-noser. Get over yourselves, if you don’t like Dave, watch Jay and his fun/safe brand of asskissy humour.

  276. 276
    Eddie says:

    Letterman is a comedian, not a politician. Let’s all get a grip. The they did first comment is irrelevant. They were actual pundits and politicians who “did” it to democratic women and children.

    Is Dave misogynistic? Probably. But it’s a bit unctuous for the party of patriarchy (especially coming to the aid of Ms. Wink and a Nod) to be fainting about a late night comedian’s rant.

  277. 277
    markg says:

    Give me a break. Palin deliberately chose to make her daughter’s pregnancy a national spectacle rather than the private family matter it should have been. She deliberately chose to dress and act in a sexually provocative way while campaigning. If Palin had presented herself as a serious political figure and not a sexed up clown, and decided to protect her family like any decent person would do, rather than exploit it, only then would Letterman have been out of bounds.

  278. 278
    Brachiator says:

    @Jim Treacher:

    Before you said there was no issue. Now you’re saying that there’s an issue, but it’s probably just because they’re stupid. I suppose that’s progress.

    Hello? Hello? Is this thread still on?

    I didn’t say it was an issue, I just speculated that a female perspective might have made sure to eliminate any ambiguity and simply made for a tighter joke. For instance, Dave often uses a walk in the park as a running gag, as in:

    “This morning I took a walk through Central Park. I saw a squirrel scratching Jim Treacher’s nuts.”

    The trick of a good joke is to leave little room for anyone to distort its meaning into something unintended. But with the Palin thing, it’s clear that some people are just looking for a fight, and will not be deterred.

    I guess I just hate the word “slut”. Always have. It’s a damn ugly word, and it’s traditionally always been used to demean a woman who has the temerity to not completely hide her sexuality.

    Point taken, but there is a difference between calling someone a “slut” and describing make-up as “slutty.”

    And the great thing about language — and comedy — is that no one has to be limited by “traditional” use. This is why God created Lenny Bruce and George Carlin.

    You guys are missing the point here.

    Which is, of course, the point. This is why Gore invented the InterTubes.

  279. 279
    gocart mozart says:

    Treacher has a blog called “Mother May I Sleep With Treacher”.

    Because neither Treacher nor above referenced “Mother” was actually at the Yankee game last night, I can only assume that he is making an offensive joke about how much Jim Treacher would enjoy raping your child.

  280. 280
    rs says:

    Before this horse dies…
    Thanks to Jim Treacher for his exegesis of the Letterman top ten list. While most of America just assumed Letterman was making the obvious reference to the older and sexually active daughter, Treacher focuses on the underage daughter. Of course- Letterman was shooting for nausea, not laughter.

  281. 281
    binzinerator says:

    @tim:

    Good god, the woman worked the MILF look right thru to election day, tight skirts, higher heels, pregnant daughter, shotgun marriage, family values, jesus and country, and all.
    She’s a clueless hypocrite, and Dave’s joke is a way of calling her out on it. Good for him. More please.

    Pretty much my take on it too. She worked that slutty angle — and no way in hell can anyone say certain men didn’t respond. Starbursts, remember? It was an image she carefully presented and I don’t get all the vapors people here get for her getting called on it.

    By the way, this whole ‘insulting to women’ chorus of protest is so fucking misplaced. You people seemed to missed that the very real and much more damaging diss occurred when Palin ran for VP using her best MILF act.

    Part of the reason conservatives loves them some Palin is she is an anti-feminist. What could be a bigger diss than to get where she is because she has a vagina and men like her because she’s hot?

    She made herself into the lapdance the rednecks couldn’t buy (while pushing her high heels into the face of every woman who ever fought to get their due for their competence, intelligent and capability, and not for being a hot mamma). And somehow, amazingly, a comedian joking about Palin’s carefully cultivated Fuckable Me image is the thing that is over the top.

    Sheesh. Some of you really missed what Palin was up to. Palin was the manchurian candidate for feminism.

    The hot fuck-me chick who can’t be fucked. Like a slutty stewardess. She’s got the fuck-me thing going on but what can you do? Bend her over one of the seats? Unobtainable Sex Object. Akin to the Hot Librarian with the Big Glasses. (Another stock male fantasy character Palin more than hints at as well). Cuz guys, you know when she takes off those glasses and lets down her hair she’ll fuck you so hard on the book stacks your dick’ll be bruised.

    Sure that’s stereotype that demeans women. Hell yes. But Palin is totally reinforcing that one. She’s projecting it: This is the modern Conservative Woman.

    It’s a feature not a bug that it’s undermes feminism. Why do you think conservatives love this exemplar of Woman? And where’s the vapors over that?

    It’s actually interesting that Letterman said ‘stewardess’. No flight attendants for conservatives. Women are stewardesses. Waitresses in the sky.

    You can get pissed at Letterman but I think he’s noticing something here. It says more about how conservatives see women than Dave does.

    Letterman did wasn’t nice. But comedians often say harsh shit. A difference between comedy and a comedian making gratuitous insults is whether it was true or not. Good for Dave for calling her on it. She doesn’t get to have it both ways.

  282. 282

    Actually, as we’ve seen from this thread, Letterman was simply taking advantage of the fact that there are a lot of liberals out there who will not only laugh at jokes about raping an underage girl, but make excuses for the fact based on their loathing of her mother for daring to be a politician.

    This doesn’t surprise us, though; after all, these are the people who, within minutes of receiving the correct talking points from the Obama campaign, were all over the blogs repeating that Palin had faked her pregnancy. Treacher is simply trying to appeal to the sense of decency of people who have adopted the mantra that anyone who would dare challenge Obama must be destroyed, which is roughly the same level of optimism as panning for gold in your shower.

  283. 283
    TRO says:

    I’m sorry, can you give me one or two examples of this kind of talk about Chelsea, cause as far as I know it didn’t happen. And fact is, if someone said this about the Obama kids the left would be apoplectic over it.

  284. 284
    tripletee (formerly tBone) says:

    @North Dallas Thirty:

    there are a lot of liberals out there who laugh at jokes about raping an underage girl and also they like snooty mustard and blah blah blah

    Too late, Treacher queered the thread long before you showed up. Points for bringing golden showers into the conservation, though.

  285. 285
    Mike says:

    Would Letterman have made that joke if one of Palin’s daughters hadn’t been there?

    Yes.

    Anything else I can clear up for you?

  286. 286
    DZ says:

    @TRO

    Except for holding our nose and voting for Obama, he’s not one of us. Leftists that is. The last sort of leftist that ran for POTUS was George McGovern – the only person I ever voted FOR – and we know how that turned out. The left – whatever it is and it does encompass a fairly wide range of views – is not really represented in the U.S.

  287. 287
    BombIranForChrist says:

    The “slutty flight attendant” comment was completely in bounds. If it’s ok to make fun of male politicians and their horniness, drunkenness, fatness, baldness, lack of fashion sense, etc. then it is completely in bounds to make fun of Palin’s fashion sense.

    Because you know what, she DOES dress like a slutty flight attendant, and it is something she clearly does on purpose.

    She understands that her physical attractiveness is a big part of why men like Rush Limbaugh start popping their blue pills while she is around. If she was this dumb and a man, she would have never, ever, ever been McCain’s running mate. Like the horde of Aryan blond female commentators that dominate Fox News and associated conservative pundits (with Malkin being the exception that proves the rule), Palin is attractive to conservatives the exact same way bare chested women holding guns is attractive to conservatives. Palin isn’t like a pinup girl, she IS a pinup girl. And she knows it.

    As for her daughter, yeah, I think that was in poor taste. Until family members start willfully getting into debates and throwing punches (see McCain girl), they should be off limits.

  288. 288
    mcgruder says:

    Moar you know: Jenna Bush, Barbara Bush got a pass?
    Cool. I did not know. I thought that their every move was fodder for comedians on every show I saw. Lets not even discuss the MSM and the blogs. Remember when they got nailed for drinking in the bar? The savants on The View had a roundtable on it for weeks….O’Reilly was in on it…everyone. Glad no one said anything.

    Amy Carter got hit? Hmmm, 1976 she was 8 years old. I think Carson would have been hung by his balls if he made any kind of joke about her….by Fred Silverman.

    The Nixon kids? They fucking made the career of National Lampoon’s writers.

    You are a really, really low watt person. I mean, that was the best you could do? And you got most every fact wrong.

    Preview is your friend.

  289. 289
    Jim Treacher says:

    I pooped my pants.

  290. 290
    El Tiburon says:

    Shorter Tbogg: Bunch of douchebags

    http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2.....s-dunking/

  291. 291

    If she was this dumb and a man, she would have never, ever, ever been McCain’s running mate.

    You’re right. She would have been Obama’s, as we see from Joe Biden.

    She understands that her physical attractiveness is a big part of why men like Rush Limbaugh start popping their blue pills while she is around.

    Mhm. Because she doesn’t fit your stereotype of what conservative women should look like, she’s a slut. Got it.

    Like I said, again, we’re asking for rationality from people who are still convinced she faked her pregnancy. Can’t be done.

  292. 292
    gocart mozart says:

    North Dallas thirty; You seem obsessed with assuming the joke was not about Bristol irrespective of any logic or common sense. Any comment on Treachouts “joke” about “raping young girls or boys”?

    Any sane or reasonably honest person knows that the joke was obviously aimed at Bristol and A-Rod. Answer me this, do you think that Letterman and his writers thought that his New York audience would find a joke about a Yankee ballplayer being a child rapist hilarious?

  293. 293
    binzinerator says:

    @Krista:

    The “nice girl”/”slut” compartmentalizing is still very alive and well, and really, all it does is reduce a woman to nothing more a vagina.

    Krista, that is exactly why Palin does her MILF thing. That is exactly why some guys see starbursts zinging around the room when she’s on their TV. Palin is totally playing that up — she’s the VP candidate, with the respectability and gravitas that goes with that, and she’s doing her MILF routine.

    This is a clever way to project a stereotype fantasy the redneck assholes love even more than that dichotomy– a good girl/slut in the same woman. These kind of guys want a virgin who knows how, a chaste woman who could teach a stripper a thing or two, a respectable girl who, as in that song about Bette Davis, knows just what it takes to make a pro blush. It’s really an inversion of the whore with a heart of gold.

    I am just amazed at how adroitly Palin has gotten feminists by the short hairs. They seem to think her use of her sexuality is somehow to her credit. I think she has very cleverly figured out how to use the thing feminists have defended in a way that ultimately undermines feminism. She uses her sexuality to reinforce the compartmentalizing you find so abhorrent.

    Conservatives don’t miss it. They see her and yes they instantly see she dresses like a slutty stewardess. They like it. It’s not a problem to them. They are in agreement with feminists about her using her sexuality, but for very different reasons. For them it simply reinforces the framework they have for women.

    Women like you see it, and they get pissed that she is called slutty.

    Social conservatives love Palin and this is part of the reason why. Via Palin they’ve discovered a way to use parts of feminism against it self. Palin is to feminism what a virus is to a cell — she’s inside and is using the internal workings in a way that will result in the strengthening what she represents and eventual weakening or destruction of the host. And just like defense against a virus, there is confusion as to what is really the target. Are we attacking her or the host cell? What if the host itself is unable to tell?

    Palin has already caused a change in the body politic. The conversation on sexuality as legitimate grounds for consideration for advancement has changed whether we like where it’s going or not.

    If there was ever a calculated move to make a ‘fuck you’ gesture to the consensus that has grown since the days of the ERA fight that a woman ought to be considered on her non-physical merits, the Palin nom was it. It turned out not to be just a FU gesture, but a monkey-wrenching.

    Now a woman — who doesn’t support feminist views or women’s reproductive rights — who is an anti-feminist in everyway except her frank expression of her sexuality is now being defended because pointing out what she does do, which is dress to a demeaning stereotype of a woman, is somehow reducing her to nothing more than a vagina.

    Krista, I have to point out she is the one who chose to reduce herself to little more than a vagina. I know she’s not, but that’s what she’s been rolling with. Unless you think she almost got to be the VP because of her experience, grasp of world affairs, intelligence, and competence.

    The social cons have been looking for someone like Palin for years — someone like Phyllis Schafly, only much younger and much much hotter.

    I think they found their woman. And I think they know it too.

  294. 294
    Jim Treacher says:

    @tripletee (formerly tBone):

    Dude, everything’s cool, just chill.

  295. 295
    Brachiator says:

    @BombIranForChrist:

    If she was this dumb and a man, she would have never, ever, ever been McCain’s running mate be George W. Bush.

    Fixed.

  296. 296
    binzinerator says:

    Thread’s over. North Dallas southern-conservative-godbothering-whiteguy over Forty is here

  297. 297
    Mayken says:

    @slightly_peeved: Ah, man, did you have to go and remind me about Terry? I haz a sad!

  298. 298
    Jim Treacher says:

    @gocart mozart:

    You’re harshing everybody out, guy. Come on, just let all that tension go.

  299. 299
    DaMav says:

    Credit where it is due on the left. Good for you speaking up. Leave the kids out of it!

  300. 300
    gocart mozart says:

    You’re harshing everybody out, guy. Come on, just let all that tension go.

    Jimmy, I was only trying to harsh you out. Riddle me this DOOOD! Isn’t this sentence, “Mother May I Sleep With Treacher” more obviously a child rape pun than whatever Letterman meant? I will sit here clutching my pearls in righteous indignation as I await your heartfelt apology.

    You can apologize for either:
    a. Making light of child rape, or
    b. Being a hypocritical douchebag

  301. 301
    Boo Boo the Kitten says:

    Isn’t Mr Treacher adorable? Oh look! A ball of twine. Gotta go.

  302. 302
    Zuzu's Petals says:

    @binzinerator:

    Interestingly, this is what that insightful commentator on social mores (snark alert), Dennis Miller, had to say:

    I think the Left hate her — mostly women on the Left hate her — because to me from outside in it appears that she has a great sex life, all right? I think she has non-neurotic sex with that Todd Palin guy. … I think that snow mobile looks like mechanized foreplay to me and that’s why people are fascinated.</p?

    Billy O’Reilly didn’t blink an eye.

  303. 303

    Any sane or reasonably honest person knows that the joke was obviously aimed at Bristol and A-Rod.

    Obviously not, given that quite a few other sane and reasonably-honest people have pointed out that Willow was at that game, not Bristol.

    Given that David Letterman is a liberal, an Obama Party supporter, and a Palin-hater,which, according to this blog, makes him smart, he would not make such a stupid and blatantly-obvious mistake, right?

    Come on. Give David Letterman credit for pushing the bleeding edge of comedy. You liberals have made it clear that all family members are fair game and that anything goes when it comes to Palin.

    Answer me this, do you think that Letterman and his writers thought that his New York audience would find a joke about a Yankee ballplayer being a child rapist hilarious?

    Yes. After all, it’s at Palin’s expense, and Obama Party members and supporters just spent almost all of the day yesterday coming up with insults to use against Palin. You expect me to believe that Obama Party-dominated New Yorkers wouldn’t find that hilarious?

  304. 304
    bayville says:

    The “Slut” joke was unfunny and the word in itself is insulting to ALL women.

    Sort of like the C-Word:

    Citizens United Not Timid, aka CUNT, is a political action committee dedicated to “educating the public about what Hillary Clinton really is,” by selling T-shirts with a red, white and blue female crotch logo.

    or Bitch:

    On the March 15 broadcast of his nationally syndicated radio show, Glenn Beck said: “Hillary Clinton cannot be elected president because … there’s something about her vocal range.” He went on to say, “There’s something about her voice that just drives me — it’s not what she says, it’s how she says it,” adding, “She is like the stereotypical — excuse the expression, but this is the way to — she’s the stereotypical bitch, you know what I mean?”

    Instead, Letterman should take notes from comedian extraordinaire Mark Levin.

  305. 305

    This is a clever way to project a stereotype fantasy the redneck assholes love even more than that dichotomy

    That wins for ironic statement of the day.

    Now a woman—who doesn’t support feminist views or women’s reproductive rights—who is an anti-feminist in everyway except her frank expression of her sexuality is now being defended because pointing out what she does do, which is dress to a demeaning stereotype of a woman, is somehow reducing her to nothing more than a vagina.

    Actually, it would be clearer to say that Palin doesn’t support the Obama Party or unlimited abortion, both of which are “requirements” for one to be a “feminist” in this day and age, and both of which are poisoning the “feminist” movement by making it obvious to people that it’s not about women, but about ensuring their subservience to the Obama Party and an endless flow of campaign contributions from abortion providers.

  306. 306
  307. 307
    gocart mozart says:

    NORTH DALLAS THIRTY said,

    Obviously not, given that quite a few other sane and reasonably honest people have pointed out that Willow was at that game, not Bristol.

    Let me get this straight, you think it is inconceivable that Letterman’s joke writers mistakenly thought that the 18 year old previously knocked-up daughter was at the game with her mom. That would be Krazy !eleventy! It is far more likely in your view that David freakin’ Letterman intended to make a joke that would make no sense about A-Rod having sex with a 14 year-old girl. That is your story!? I stand by my claim that you are neither sane nor reasonable.

    Also, repeating the point that Willow was in fact at the game over and over does not make it any less irrelevant and stupid.

  308. 308

    Let me get this straight, you think it is inconceivable that Letterman’s joke writers mistakenly thought that the 18 year old previously knocked-up daughter was at the game with her mom.

    Yes. After all, aren’t you liberals always saying how Palin-haters like yourself are so much smarter than the rest of us? How is it that you plead stupidity and ignorance when people react negatively to what you and yours consider to be an uproariously-funny joke?

    It is far more likely in your view that David freakin’ Letterman intended to make a joke that would make no sense about A-Rod having sex with a 14 year-old girl.

    Yes. Why would anyone presume that liberals like yourself who have made it clear that there are no limits in terms of attacking Palin would have some kind of squeamishness over hoping her children are raped?

    I mean, seriously. You folks were throwing screaming tantrums insisting that she faked her pregnancy and that her husband was having incestuous sex with her daughters. You expect us to believe that you have any sort of qualms over this?

  309. 309
    gocart mozart says:

    Also, repeating “But, but, Willow was at the game !eleventy!” over and over again does not make the point any less irrelevant and stupid. Just so you know.

  310. 310
    Allan says:

    You guys are still here? Dang. The owner of this swath of virtual real estate called this thread’s time of death at 7:02 am.

    No one will ever persuade Treach and/or his butt-boy WD40 that Letterman didn’t personally hold Willow down and spread her legs so that the brown man could savagely deflower her with his swollen ethnic penis while her mother looked on, helplessly clutching her pearls.

    It’s kind of funny that Treach’s Tweets to his fan-boy base only rallied one late and lame lackey to his defense, actually. And that it is the racist reichtard homophobic gay guy WD40, perhaps an even bigger oxymoron than Treachery himself.

    There aren’t words, or ball-peen hammers, that can penetrate that kind of willful disingenuous brain matter. But don’t let me stop you from trying.

  311. 311
    Jim Treacher says:

    @gocart mozart:

    There was this TV movie called “Mother, May I Sleep with Danger?” It was a play on that because I thought it was a funny title. But then I changed the title of my blog to something else because I don’t like Tori Spelling anymore.

    Thanks for asking, dude.

  312. 312
    gocart mozart says:

    Heh, I clicked edit with one second left on the clock. I thought I missed the buzzer because my comment posted at first without the last line. Hence the redundancy.

    Oh look a ball of twine! Gotta go.

  313. 313
    Jim Treacher says:

    @gocart mozart:

    I know, man, people are getting so caught up on who was where. Individual identity and all that stuff. Is anybody really anywhere? Aren’t we all one?

  314. 314
    Massoud Twitagami says:

    How long would a producer take before he would fire a show host who made a joke about a white older guy that grabbed and then raped Barack Obama’s daughter at a baseball game ?

    3 minutes….. 3 seconds….. or before the joke fully came out of the commedian show host’s gap filled toothy filthy mouth ?

    Lets be real. That show host would be gone in a heartbeat and he’d be gone forever from TV

  315. 315
    D. Richard Turner says:

    I quit watching Dave years ago; he’s not funny!

  316. 316
    D. Richard Turner says:

    I quit watching Dave years ago; he’s not funny!

  317. 317
    gocart mozart says:

    There was this TV movie called “Mother, May I Sleep with Danger?” It was a play on that because I thought it was a funny title.

    See, I just assumed the worst possible interpretation and the worst possible motive on your part. T(r)eacher sleeping with students. Funny how that works.

    I don’t like Tori Spelling anymore.

    Dude, I was gonna cut you some slack but anyone who at anytime has ever “liked” Tori Spelling deserves no respect.

  318. 318
    Zuzu's Petals says:

    @gocart mozart:

    And the fact that she’s actually 15 evidently just doesn’t ring the same chimes.

    http://www.makemyfamilytree.co.....alogy.html

    Facts? Screw ’em, I’ve got a meme to flog!

  319. 319
    brantl says:

    I find that Palin dug her own hole on this one; she went out of her way to misrepresent the truth. About her family values, about her education, about what she stood for, about what her opponents stood for. Letterman says ” she went for the slutty airlines hostess look.” Well, she did, didn’t she? And Bristol? She recently said that “Abstinence doesn’t work.”, and now she’s on her world abstinence tour. Their both hypocrites, and who the hell cares whether they like what he said, or not? Dave’s a hell of a lot more of a straight shooter than either of them.

  320. 320
    Allan says:

    @Jim Treacher: Yeah, getting the physical location of the characters right is critical to the success of a joke. That explains why this tweet of yours missed the mark.

    The Obamas capped off their romantic NYC date at the top of the Empire State Building, where Michelle swatted at biplanes. OH NO I DIDN’T

    See? The reason that joke wasn’t funny wasn’t because it was racist, or compared the First Lady to a giant ape.

    It wasn’t funny because the Obamas didn’t actually visit the Empire State Building on that trip.

    Glad I could clear that up for you.

  321. 321
    Jim Treacher says:

    @gocart mozart:

    I can totally see what you’re saying, man.

  322. 322

    @Allan:

    Actually, I think you just made the point for us. :)

  323. 323
    Zuzu's Petals says:

    @gocart mozart:

    Yeah, because thinking a title is a funny play on words makes the actual title not pedophilic at all.

  324. 324
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Allan:

    Hi, Allan! How’s it going, man? Thanks for reading my tweets.

  325. 325
    Jim Treacher says:

    @North Dallas Thirty:

    But see, it’s funny because it’s Palin’s daughter. It doesn’t matter which daughter, just that Sarah Palin is her mom. Everbody’s so hung up on this “separate consciousnesses” stuff, man.

  326. 326
    Allan says:

    @Jim Treacher: More people should!

    And you should get out more. Seriously. I mean, I managed to actually have a life outside the internets since last we spoke. You should get one too.

  327. 327
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Allan:

    That’s an awesome perspective, it’s cool that you took the time to share it.

  328. 328
    gocart mozart says:

    I know, man, people are getting so caught up on who was where. Individual identity and all that stuff. Is anybody really anywhere? Aren’t we all one?

    Sane person: “Hey did you hear, Letterman made a joke about Bristol Palin getting knocked up by A-Rod at last night’s game.”

    Idiot wingnut: “Actually, 14 year old Willow was the one at the game. How dare Letterman make rape jokes about A-Rod and 14 year old girls !eleventy!”

    Sane person: “Don’t you think his joke writers just wrongly assumed that the 18 year old previously knocked up daughter was the one at the game? Otherwise the joke makes no sense.”

    Idiot wingnut: LIBERAL BIAS! LIBERAL BIAS! SEXISM! SEXISM! What if I said something like that about that cunt Hillary’s daughter?

    Sane person: You’re right, maybe Jim Treacher really was making a bad pun about teacher / student rape.

  329. 329
    Jim Treacher says:

    @gocart mozart:

    It’s like a little play you wrote, very cool.

  330. 330
    Zuzu's Petals says:

    @gocart mozart:

    You’re not seriously trying to reason with trolls, are you?

    PS, I don’t think he gave much thought to the fact that he comes off as a pedophile. Subliminal thinking and all that.

  331. 331
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Zuzu’s Petals:

    Let go of your anger and allow yourself to become one with the cosmos. It totally rules.

  332. 332
    Zuzu's Petals says:

    @Allan:

    Speaking of having a life outside the Internet, let me run this by you.

    I have to figure out what to wear to a ’50s-style sock hop. I’m tempted to go as a bobby-soxer with rolled up jeans and a big shirt, etc. … or make it really easy and go as a beatnik. Just wear black and get a beret. On the other hand, beatniks probably didn’t go to too many sock hops. What to do…?

    Off to the shops. Will let you know what I find!

  333. 333
    gocart mozart says:

    But see, it’s funny because it’s Palin’s daughter. It doesn’t matter which daughter, just that Sarah Palin is her mom. Everbody’s so hung up on this “separate consciousnesses” stuff, man.

    Jimmy, are you saying that it doesn’t matter whether the butt of a sex/knocked up joke is an 18 year old previously knocked up public figure or an innocent 14 year old girl? The the main theme of this thread appears to be the opposite. Maybe you and ND30 just have a seriously messed-up value system.

    Also, your hippy dippy 60’s stoner language schtick is getting a bit old. Why don’t you just put on some Moby Grape and chill out for a while.

  334. 334
    Zuzu's Petals says:

    @gocart mozart:

    Actually, it appears Willow is 15.

  335. 335
    Allan says:

    You’re not seriously trying to reason with trolls, are you?

    Yeah, several of us tried that last night to no avail. I don’t know what we were thinking…

    Really, at this point I think the best thing to do is just sit back and marvel at Jim. He’s a wonder of the world, kind of like the Sphinx. He’s big, he’s impenetrable, and no one can figure out why the fuck anyone would bother to build him in the first place, but it must have seemed really important at the time.

    I’m going to resume that thing called a life again now and leave him be.

    Toodles!

  336. 336
    gocart mozart says:

    But see, it’s funny because it’s Palin’s daughter. It doesn’t matter which daughter, just that Sarah Palin is her mom. Everbody’s so hung up on this “separate consciousnesses” stuff, man.

    Jimmy, are you saying that it doesn’t matter whether the butt of a sex/knocked up joke is an 18 year old previously knocked up public figure or an innocent 14 year old girl? The the main theme of this thread appears to be the opposite. Maybe you and ND30 just have a seriously messed-up value system.

    Also, your hippy dippy 60’s stoner language schtick is getting a bit old. Why don’t you just put on some Moby Grape and chill out for a while.

  337. 337
    Jim Treacher says:

    @gocart mozart:

    What’s a number? 14, 15, 18, 19, who cares?

    Allan, you’re putting out a lot of negative energy, man. Just let go of your hangups.

  338. 338
    Boo Boo the Kitten says:

    You’re not seriously trying to reason with trolls, are you?

    Boo Boo Luv this troll. Boo Boo think this troll adorable. Boo Boo get all warm and cuddly when troll talk all hippy dippy to him. LOL!

    Also, Boo Boo think WordPress is very bad and scary man!

  339. 339
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Boo Boo the Kitten:

    Trolls are people who don’t agree with you no matter how much you insult them. We should try to understand their perspective and not be too judgmental.

  340. 340
    gocart mozart says:

    What’s a number? 14, 15, 18, 19, who cares?

    Well Jim, “What’s in a number?”. 14 will get you 5 to 10 depending on the state or circumstances. This info may come in handy to you someday. Your welcome in advance.

    To everyone except Jim Treacher: Is he seriously arguing that sex jokes about a 14 year old private person are equel to sex jokes about an 18 year old public figure? !eleventy! Yes, I think he is. This may explain his affinity for the pun “Mommy may I sleep with Treacher.”

  341. 341
    Jim Treacher says:

    @gocart mozart:

    But if 14 is bad, that would mean Letterman was wrong. And he couldn’t be, because it was about the Palins. You have to clear away the old ways of thinking, man, get with the new.

  342. 342
    Boo Boo the Kitten says:

    Boo Boo confused. Boo Boo did not insult troll. Boo Boo find troll cute and adorable like his fake mouse Jindel. Boo Boo find fact that troll is thickheaded, disingenuous, ignores valid points by other posters and a bit of an all around douche to be slightly troubling, but Boo Boo willing to overlook.

    Boo Boo would very much like troll to use word “groovy” in sentence. Boo Boo like fake hippy dialect more than tuna. O.K. almost as much LOL! Boo Boo fixed last month by evil master and has no other social life.

  343. 343
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Boo Boo the Kitten:

    Very cool, you’re talking like a kittycat if a kittycat could talk.

  344. 344
    gocart mozart says:

    But if 14 is bad, that would mean Letterman was wrong. And he couldn’t be, because it was about the Palins. You have to clear away the old ways of thinking, man, get with the new.

    Jimmy “Mommy May I Sleep With” Treacher said,

    “But if 14 is bad, that would mean Letterman was wrong.

    Jim” [let me type this really slow so even a turnip-head such as yourself might understand] IF Letterman had made that joke about 14 year old Willow, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN WRONG! A sane or reasonable person would have assumed that the joke was meant at the expense of Bristol Palin. Reasonable and sane people can debate whether or not that Bristol joke was appropriate but since you are neither, that shouldn’t concern you.

    And he couldn’t be, because it was about the Palins.

    This is pure projection on your part. Just because you are an amoral douche with zero intellectual honesty, don’t assume everyone else is.

  345. 345
    Jim Treacher says:

    @gocart mozart:

    Negative energy, man. Very harsh.

  346. 346
    Jim Treacher says:

    @gocart mozart:

    I don’t understand why you’re yelling at me for agreeing that Letterman isn’t wrong to say what he said, because such a thing would be impossible. Peace, brother.

  347. 347
    gocart mozart says:

    Hey Jim, I checked out your blog. No comments, not surprised. Lots of douchebaggy wankery, also not surprised.

    To think that he is the 89th biggest wanker in the wingnutosphere . Should he be ranked higher or lower? Is being a douche a plus or a minus? Should it be? The mind boggles. Thoughts anyone.

  348. 348
    Zuzu's Petals says:

    Gocart:

    Now you know the reason for the shameless blog-whoring.

    Let the pedophile-site-name troll entertain the self-hating gay troll. That’s about all this thread is worth anymore.

  349. 349
    gocart mozart says:

    I don’t understand why you’re yelling at me for agreeing that Letterman isn’t wrong to say what he said, because such a thing would be impossible. Peace, brother.

    Students, the above comment is a textbook example of what is more commonly known as being a complete dick.

    FEED THE TROLLS ! Keep them away from the kids.

  350. 350
    Jim Treacher says:

    @gocart mozart:

    Peace. This hostility isn’t helping anybody.

  351. 351
  352. 352
    Zuzu's Petals says:

    @gocart mozart:

    I’m pretty sure they like pie.

  353. 353

    Jim” [let me type this really slow so even a turnip-head such as yourself might understand] IF Letterman had made that joke about 14 year old Willow, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN WRONG!

    I always love how libbies make condemnations — as long as they never have to follow through on them.

    Simply state that Letterman was wrong for making this joke about Willow Palin. That’s not that hard, is it?

    But of course it is. It’s like welfare fraud and immigration fraud; Obama was against it until Auntie Zeituni got her cheap housing, free healthcare, no-show government job, and fat welfare checks.

    Let the pedophile-site-name troll entertain the self-hating gay troll.

    Can we say projection?

  354. 354
    Zuzu's Petals says:

    Yep, they loves them some pie.

  355. 355
    Jason says:

    Hey all, what’s up? You guys talking about something? Doin’ stuff?

  356. 356
    Jim-Bob says:

    Jim: Read your blog. All I can say is,

    “Those who can’t do: Treach.”

  357. 357
    Jim-Bob says:

    OR

    When somebody links to Treacher’s blog, it’s called a Treach-around.

  358. 358
  359. 359
    Wes says:

    Well, now that Letterman both apologized for the joke, and pointed it pointed out that the joke was absolutely in no way directed at Willow Palin, I hope this idiotic threadcrap by Jim Treacher and gang will come to an end.

  360. 360
    Jim-Bob says:

    @Wes:

    You won the Internets, Wes!

  361. 361
    hamletta says:

    Was there a Jim Treacher here? I saw “Treacher,” and all I could think about was fish & chips. Did he say something?

    Mmm…I love fish & chips.

  362. 362
    marge says:

    I think he is just a mean,senile,old liberal man. I don’t know why anyone would even watch him. If he had done that to a Democrat’s kid, he would have been removed from CBS. He sounds like a pedophile.

  363. 363
    Bullsmith says:

    Let me one of the legions of people who are astounded at Jim Treacher’s absolutely pathetic endless reposting of the same non-facts. Of all the self-immolating fools I have ever encountered on stupid threads, Treacher is the single most repetitive and unconvincing stuffed shirt I’ve ever seen. What a fucking moron. At least he’s full of himself, otherwise I’d have genuine pity for someone who unable to think beyond “But willow went to a baseball game, hence you all like raping children.” Jim, try adding “stamped on it, no erasies.” to your arguments, it would add to their intellectual heft.

    Here Jim (and JC, frankly), Letterman made a sexist joke about Sarah and Bristol that could be misinterpreted to be about the 14 year old daughter instead. Oops. Calls for a clarification, which he gave. Wow. He’s never made a sexist joke before. I guess the apocalypse has begun.

    Of course you’ve provided nothing but your word about Willow being at the game, the press coverage doesn’t back you up which means that outside of your hissy fit, she wasn’t the target of the joke, because people can’t know what they don’t know.

    But hey, just like everyone else who’s called you a moron, I’m really only showing how dumb I am and how thoroughly vindicated your arguments are. Right?

  364. 364
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Bullsmith:

    I don’t take your unfocused rage personally.

  365. 365
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Wes:

    So Sarah Palin is lying that her daughter Willow was at the game with her, and Letterman’s “apology” wasn’t an angry, insincere, self-pitying self-justification. Interesting theory.

  366. 366
    Abraxas says:

    So.

    We’ve established that there are two kinds of people who are commenting here.

    They’re not “Liberal” or “Conservative.” They’re not “Democrat” or “Republican.”

    They’re those who justify making jokes about statutory rape, and those who don’t. That’s really the Alpha and the Omega of all of the commenting here; the rest – the personal attacks visited on other commenters, the attempted equivalence arguments – is chaff.

    Governor Palin visited the ballpark with her 14-year old daughter. Mr. Letterman made a crude and indefensible joke about an adult having sex with that daughter. That is what he said; no amount of semiotic contortion from commenters or faux “apology” from Mr. Letterman will change that fact.

  367. 367
    Bullsmith says:

    Jim, all I can hope is that as many people as possible have followed your attempts to prove that Letterman deliberately made a joke endorsing the rape of a child, in the certain knowledge that no one in his audience could realize that, and by sheer coincidence got lots of laughter because people thought his joke about Palin’s daughter getting knocked up by A Rod was not about Palin’s daughter who got knocked up, but about another daughter who is not of child-rearing age but has, in fact, attended a baseball game.

    As you say, interesting theory. With logic like that, how can it be that anyone is unconvinced?

  368. 368
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Bullsmith:

    So it’s okay because he was really joking about sexually assaulting an 18 year old girl to get at her mother. It’s okay because he and his staff were too lazy to make sure they were humiliating the correct teenager.

    Hey, how old was Obama’s mom when she conceived him out of wedlock?

  369. 369
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Bullsmith:

    Just to sum up your theory. But I do agree that as many people should read this as possible.

  370. 370
    Bullsmith says:

    Jim

    You may not understand this but A Rod is fairly successful with women. When one suggests he seduced an 18 year old mother of one, it is not necessarily implied that he raped her.

    Except in your world.

  371. 371

    […] Cole, for example, was angry that Letterman could have joked that Palin’s look is akin to “a slutty […]

  372. 372
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Bullsmith:

    You may not understand this, but David Letterman took out his anger at Sarah Palin on her children.

  373. 373
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Bullsmith:

    No, Letterman wasn’t saying Sarah Palin’s daughter, and it doesn’t really matter which daughter, was raped. He was just saying that Sarah Palin’s daughter, and it doesn’t really matter which daughter, went to a Yankees game with her mom and dad, and during the seventh-inning stretch, she got herself knocked up by one of the players.

  374. 374
    Surreal American says:

    This is the thread that doesn’t end.
    Yes it goes on and on, my friend.
    Some people started posting, not knowing what it was,
    and they’ll continue posting forever just because…

  375. 375
    Bullsmith says:

    Jim,

    Letterman picks on famous people for a living. I know it’s a shock this should be allowed but there’s some kind of constitutional protection allowing people to be assholes and make jokes in poor taste in front of live audiences.

    If you think this is Letterman at his most angry, or his most crude, or that this is his worst failed joke you’re just ignorant about him.

  376. 376

    So let’s see; the Obama Party members here are bringing up David Letterman’s apology as proof while at the same time denying that David Letterman did anything wrong.

  377. 377
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Bullsmith:

    Let me try to follow your backpedalling: It’s now a 1st Amendment issue, presumably because some government body is trying to shut Letterman down. Which one is it?

    But hey, everybody knows Letterman stinks anyway, so big deal. I look forward to his jokes about Obama’s mom banging Mickey Mantle.

  378. 378
    Jim Treacher says:

    @North Dallas Thirty:

    And it really is an apology, even though at no point did he actually apologize.

  379. 379
    Bullsmith says:

    Um Jim, when you admit that Letterman didn’t mean rape, you’ve just being calling it rape, I don’t think I’m the one that’s backpedalling.

    So far, I think sane people agree that Letterman told a mean joke aimed at Bristol and Sarah Palin and Alex Rodruigez. He then gave a clarification you describe as an apology despite noting he never actually apologized. Which is pretty much the whole sum of your argument.

    Shorter me: Letterman made bad joke get over it.

    Shorter you: So you approve of child rape.

    Shorter both of us: Jim Treacher is a repetitive moron.

  380. 380
    ManBearPig says:

    Wait wait wait….

    David Letterman is a comedian?

  381. 381
    Jim Treacher says:

    @Bullsmith:

    Shorter you: Sorry, I can’t think of anything smaller than you.

    Where did I admit he wasn’t making a rape joke? I was trying to unpack your rationalization of it. It’s okay as long as Letterman is getting at Palin through her 18 year old daughter and not her 14 year old daughter, is that your stance? Bristol Palin, who the joke was about even though she wasn’t at the event he was joking about, deserves to be called a slut because she’s an unwed teen mother? That’s your enlightened argument?

    And I didn’t describe it as an apology, you guys did. It was anything but.

  382. 382
    Gatrios says:

    Let’s all use the Letterman standard for Jokes. OK, Letterman is a public figure, so his son and wife must be by extension as well.

    Got any ideas?,

    Here’s one:

    Letterman’s wife is so ugly that if she was black, Obama would have married her.

  383. 383
    ManBearPig says:

    In a related story, Ashley Biden was snorting coke off of A-Rod’s butt during half time while they bumped uglies in the dugout with Gavin Newsome jumped in on a three way that was wilder than Barney Frank during ‘Abba Night’ at ‘The Tranny Depot’ …

    I’m a comedian!!!!!

    Oh wait.. No one is being forced into sex… I’ll work on it… I’m not a pro… like Davy Cricket is…

  384. 384
    Bullsmith says:

    Jim,

    Your many many posts are there for all to read. You used the word rape many times, (in another thread I believe indicating it was based on Willow’s age, not on violent assault).

    Separately you assert that joking about an 18 year old isn’t much better than joking about a 14 year old, but at the same time you’re walking back YOUR OWN charge of rape.

    Now from all your umbrage about the joke, I’d think you’d take making charges of rape seriously. But clearly you don’t apply that standard to yourself. In fact all the standards you’re trying to hold Letterman to have you’ve broken yourself many many times.

    Which is why I find your stamina so impressive. It’s like a guy running a marathon in the empty room of his mind. Keep going, maybe when to repeat “Willow was at the ballgame” that 900th time it will suddenly have the meaning you want it to have.

    As for the apology, I agree with you it was anything but. Sorry for taking you literally when you said, “And it really is an apology, even though at no point did he actually apologize.”

    Just to recap, have you dropped the charge that Letterman was attacking Willow? And if so, what is your point? That he was mean? Who’s arguing that?

  385. 385
    Stickeenotes says:

    @Bullsmith:

    Ah so Letterman wasn’t saying she got raped he was saying she is a slut. So if I make a joke like,

    So David Letterman is in trouble with his wife again. It turns out he let Michael Jackson baby sit his son, Harry. Now Dave has to figure out how to get Boone’s Farm and semen out of a little league uniform.

    I’m not making a joke about Michael Jackson molesting Letterman’s son, I’m making a joke about Letterman’s kid being gay & a slut? Yeah, that makes sense.

    Do you even think of the impact of this on Willow Palin? She’s a 14 year old kid. Now she gets to go to school and deal with snickers, looks, and comments from assholes, because of what Letterman said. She’s a 14 year old kid and she knows she was at that game. Letterman likely knew too (or at least he should have given the controversy) when he made the second joke on the next night, in which he implied Sarah’s daughter was a whore. She’s a 14 year old kid. She didn’t sign up for being the subject of a late night comedian’s jokes. Her life is going to be hard enough in her situation without David Letterman making it even more difficult.

    I couldn’t care less about the jokes directed at Sarah Palin. That’s comedy and the price you pay for becoming a public figure. But the kids are off limits in my book. I believe in absolute free speech, but with that comes responsibility. Letterman behaved like an irresponsible ass. No wonder he carries water for the left.

  386. 386
    John Cole says:

    This thread sucks and is now closed. And a classy group of followers you have sent over here via twitter, Treacher.

    Not sure what some of you think you are accomplishing by making remarks that are just as or more obnoxious than Letterman’s, other than to prove you are hypocrites.

Trackbacks & Pingbacks

  1. […] Cole, for example, was angry that Letterman could have joked that Palin’s look is akin to “a slutty […]

  2. […] Wake Up, America, who have a nice round-up, kudos to John Cole. Posted by Dan Collins @ 5:14 am | Trackback SHARETHIS.addEntry({ title: “Letterman Fallout [Dan […]

  3. […] being overly quick to cry racism a few days ago. Today the right (though not strictly the right) is upset by some jokes from David Letterman about the Palins. He said she goes for a slutty stewardess look and poked fun […]

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