Isaac Chotiner catches a great exchange between Glenn Beck and Jonah Goldberg:
BECK: What a nightmare this is. Can you give me any example in history where this kind of stuff has happened, what’s happening today, and what does it lead to?
GOLDBERG: …I’m not calling Barack Obama a Hitler and I’m not calling him Nazis and all the rest. But, you know, in fascism, we saw the people’s car. We call it the Volkswagen, where the state said what we’re going to do is we’re going to take over the auto industry, government and business and unions are going to get together and we’re going to create cars to fill a political need rather than a market need and give people these cars.
Also, am I the only one who thinks of Ferris Bueller’s Day Off (“Not that I condone fascism, or any -ism for that matter. -Ism’s in my opinion are not good. A person should not believe in an -ism, he should believe in himself.”) every time I hear Jonah Goldberg sounding off on Liberal Fascism?
C Nelson Reilly
Does this mean we all get a new Camaro?
TR
Ugh. Beck and Goldberg sharing their deep, deep thoughts. I’m surprised the universe didn’t collapse upon itself.
Ash
Yeah, I know, I totally can’t remember a time when ntuso right-wingers started getting more and more unhinged and threatened to fly off the handle at basically any point and kill people, definitely a nightmare!
Oh…wait, wrong reality.
TR
I believe we were all promised, and I quote, a “bitchin’ Camaro” during the campaign.
cleek
Goldberg sure is one dumb motherfucker.
Neale
What a pity Nazi cars are still going strong, but good ol’ fashioned American cars are going out of business.
Napoleon
The best part of it is this part
Right, the Beetle happened to pass the Model T as the most popular car ever (at least at the time, the Corolla may have passed it in recent years), was in manufacture for over 40 or 50 years, helped lead West Germany to recovery from the war since it was such a popular export, but there was no market need for the car. We can only hope something half as popular comes out to the government takeover of GM.
dmsilev
Jonah Goldberg is a deeply stupid individual. Much follows from this basic axiom.
-dms
Cat Lady
I loved my 63 Volkswagen. Got over 30 miles to the gallon, always started, and went through almost every weather condition. We should all be so lucky.
Tom65
Jonah’s idiocy is central to his point.
blogenfreude
That exchange is perilously close to a wingularity.
Calming Influence
Douchebagism.
Sarcastro
Yea, 22 million sold. Obviously there was no market need for such a vehicle.
BTW, Corolla is at around 35 million sold Napoleon.
The Grand Panjandrum
And I’m not calling Jonah Goldberg a twelve sandwich eating, half-bright, atavist.
Making an appearance on Glenn Beck’s show does make me wonder, but then having Jonah Goldberg appear on a show also makes me wonder. Wonder. Wonder.
I just can’t wait to hear Jonah’s take on Obama’s speech in Egypt. I am sure it will be deep and thoughtful criticism.
UPDATE: I see cleek basically says what I’m saying. Cleek’s just better at getting to the point than i am.
anonevent
There was some guy going on Fox 4 this morning ranting about how only if you like the way the DMV works will you like the new government run GM. I try not to cuss very often – three boys – but all I could think of was to yell “Asshole” at the TV. Yeah, because the private sector has done such an outstanding job.
I used to like that channel, and they’re the only ones that do local news after 7am, but virtually every news story is now skewed toward blaming Obama for the issue. High crime rate, Obama’s fault; house price dropping, Obama’s fault; hard to shampoo your cat, Obama’s fault.
Zifnab25
But don’t you see? Goldberg isn’t just calling the GM take over a Hitler-esque power grab. He’s also subtly imply that Nazis were, in fact, communists. Because, as history showed, Germany went on to distribute all these newly produced autos to the poorest and most needy. There was no profit motive for a handful of politically connected auto dealers. Hitler turned Germany into a nation of welfare queens.
jrg
Our last President lied to get us into a war for political gain, tortured enemy combatants (and at least one American citizen), opened secret prisons all over the globe, and turned Americans against each other using goebbels-style “anti-war protesters are un-patriotic” rhetoric.
And yet the GM bankruptcy is “facism”.
Only in conservative circles can one write a book about “facism” without having a f*cking clue what the word means. The stupid. It burns.
someguy
Hey, don’t knock Goldberg.
At least he didn’t kill anybody or suggest we need to kill somebody to make his point.
Compared to mainstream right wingers, that’s a big improvement. He should get a dog biscuit and a pat on the tummy for that.
kay
This is a tactic, right?
You twin Barack Obama’s name with “Hitler” and “Nazi” over and over again, and the mindless masses are supposed to make some unconscious connection.
Personally, I don’t think people are that stupid. I think Goldberg is only succeeding in making the words “Hitler” and “Nazi” completely meaningless.
Look, we’re only a couple of months into this. What do you go to after “Hitler” and “Nazi” ? I can’t imagine.
Bleeding heart liberal? Card-carrying member of the ACLU? Tax ‘n spender?
Those are all mild in comparison to “Hitler”. They have to go backwards.
More evidence of the inherent recklessness of conservatives.
Morbo
I’m with Jonah on this one. He probably struggles with the proper pronunciation of those elitist Tiguans and Toauregs of the people. Only despotic fascists drive Volkswagons; real free enterprise winners drive the Mercedes Benz. And if I have to sit through one more fo those commercials with the talking Beetle I’m going to, going to… go Galt!
RememberNovember
My wife and I believe in J-ism.
El Cid
Man, I hope Glenn Beck refers to his enlightening conversations with that scholar Goldberg on tomorrow night’s awesome, witty, hilarious live comedy show simulcast in HD digital theaters near you, which I’m sure will just fill up and sellout by people rushing to get that awesome Glenn Beck insight and humor!
I know I can’t wait! Plus you know BOB will be there! Bring an electric train!
*********************************************
Glenn Beck’s Common Sense Tour – Series
6/4/2009 – 6/11/2009
Glenn Beck is back on the big screen! NCM Fathom and Mercury Radio Arts present Glenn Beck’s Common Sense Tour LIVE from the Midland Theatre in Kansas City to over 440 movie theaters nationwide. This One Night LIVE event takes place on Thursday, June 4th at 8:00pm ET / 7:00pm CT / 6:00pm MT and 8:00pm PT (tape delay.)
Due to popular demand for Glenn Beck’s theater events, an ENCORE screening will take place the following Thursday, June 11th. This show will be recorded live on June 4th and is being rebroadcast in select theaters on June 11th so you don’t miss out on Glenn Beck’s summer 2009 comedy tour.
beltane
Is GM going to start making cool little hippie buses that you can go on Dead tour with? With the table and stove and pop up roof? Awsome. Thank you Jonah Goldberg, you have filled me with hope.
The Moar You Know
And if we could only travel back through time and kill Hitler before he could make the Volkswagen, Ted Kennedy would have been drunk-driving a heavy American piece of steel and would have gone to the bottom of the canal with Mary Jo Kopechne and we wouldn’t be having all these faggots trying to gay marry box turtles and Ronald Reagan would still be President today. Also.
Napoleon
@beltane:
My uncle from Pittsbugh had one of those and I loved it when he would come by to visit with it.
Svensker
@someguy:
Judging by the size of his tummy, he’s been chowing down on the dog biscuits real good.
Short Bus Bully
What a brilliant post. Thanks for putting that up John, it made me laugh and cry at the same time.
The Doughy Pantload and Glenn Beck together… I mean, it just doesn’t get any better than that, it just doesn’t.
SpotWeld
Does anyone else find the whole concept of a “Glenn Beck Comedy Tour”… hard to comprehend.
Ned R.
@SpotWeld: Not at all. It’s just that the word ‘unintentional’ was left out.
Buffalopundit
I wonder why the deeply stupid Jonah Goldberg omitted the fact that not one KdFWagen was ever sold to anybody during the time the Third Reich was in power. The Volkswagen did not get produced and sold until after WWII to an impoverished West Germany during its reconstruction – just like Italy had the Vespa and Fiat 500.
21,529,464 of them were built between 1938 – 1993. Clearly, no real market need there. Idiot.
I also wonder why the deeply stupid Jonah Goldberg ran to violate the Law of Godwin rather than bring up examples of state ownership of auto manufacturers like Zastava in Yugoslavia, SEAT under Franco, or any of the following: Trabant, Wartburg, Volga, Lada, Polski Fiat, Moskvich, Polonez, pre-90s Skoda, or any of the other non-Hitler related socialist exercises in governmental ownership of the means of production of extraordinarily crappy motorcars.
The answer, naturally, is that Goldberg is deeply stupid, and it’s far more incendiary to call Obama the black Hitler than it is to call him the black Tito or Brezhnev or Honecker.
Butch
Last Friday’s Denver Post carried a piece about Beck’s comedy tour and it was beyond bizarre – full of anecdotes about what a swell guy Beck is, and there was one sentence that actually acknowledged Beck might have some critics.
jake 4 that 1
I’m not calling Barack Obama Hitler or a Nazis* but HITLER HITLER NAZI HITLER NAZI!
*Like one Nazi only with twice the fascist power!
Death By Mosquito Truck
It should be pointed out that Jonah Goldberg is the definitive expert on liberal fascism having spent a career fapfapfapfapfapfapfap. How much money do ya think that motherfucker gets for godwinning every conversation?
Joey Maloney a/k/a The Bard of Balloon Juice
@beltane:
I owned a Westy for a few years. I believe they were a fascist plot to keep the sheeple from participating in politics; owners were either too busy fixing the damn things or too broke paying to have them fixed to worry about things like a sooper seekrit Mooslim dhimmikrat takeover and pollution of our precious youth’s bodily fluids.
Bill E Pilgrim
Hey Jonah Goldberg wrote an entire book about how he doesn’t understand the words he’s using, so I mean if that could get published then free enterprise is clearly alive and well. He should stop worrying.
Jose C
We have to suffer with Goldberg in the LA Times, for some ungodly reason. Normally, I can get a couple of paragraphs in before the brain cells make me stop and go on to more useful reading.
A while back, I realized that Goldberg was overly influenced by the old Jane Curtin Saturday Night Live “What If” sketch, which postulated that if Kal-El had landed in Germany rather than the US he would be known as Ubermann (i know it’s missing the umlat) and fight for untruth, injustice, and the Nazi way.
Once you realize that, all his columns and varying effluvia show that he is nothing more than a 13 year old kid trying to be witty at junior high, trying to be like the writers of the What If sketches on the early Saturday Night Live.
Bob In Pacifica
Goldberg may not be very bright, but he stays on point.
Remember, this is the second-generation of Goldbergs to be doing this stuff. His dad was in the CIA milieu. Mom worked under the cover of NANA (North American Newspaper Alliance, a CIA cover) to spy on the McGovern campaign. In the nineties she was going through Lewinsky’s dirty laundry with Delta Force lady Linda Tripp, literally, to find that blue dress with Bill Clinton’s cum stains. She was also white supremacist Mark Fuhrman’s book agent.
So if Jonah tends to flip history on its ear, remember his environment when he was growing up.
ricky
So why did half the people I knew in high school who had a car drive a bug, and why is Volkswagen and Mitsubishi in business?
Oh, and I do not want a bitchin Camaro. I would rather have a fu&*%n GTO.
Bill E Pilgrim
@kay:
That’s a very good point actually, they Godwinned out in just the first few months. Maybe the Wingularity is near.
El Cid
@SpotWeld: It’s so, so awful. I get such nasty looks from a few uptight-looking white folk in the audiences here outside Atlanta when I’m in a movie theater and the pre-trailer trailers show an ad for this Glenn Beck shit-horror and I audibly grown and reveal disgust, but I can’t help it, it’s just so, so ghastly.
gex
The VP of my company tried to make small talk with me yesterday. (I was in a car accident last weekend so we got to talking about cars.) He’s the guy who sent out that “Real Americans” email last year (the one that is erroneously credited to George Carlin that basically says if you don’t agree with the wingnuts, GTFO of America).
Anyhow, he’s convinced that Obama is going to start regulating car prices and was just outraged over how having the government set pricing was going to destroy the auto industry.
What.An.Idiot.
Bill E Pilgrim
I’m waiting for him to somehow tie it to Oprah.
gex
@Sarcastro: First, great handle. Fan of the Tick?
I had a ’78 Carolla that ran FOREVER. I was the second owner, owning it for the 100K to 150K miles portion of its life. It then went on to have TWO more owners and got pretty close to 400K miles before sent out to pasture.
My girlfriend’s Sable made it 2K miles past it’s warranty and it’s engine exploded.
kid bitzer
as they say in england: there are no atheists in vauxhalls.
DonkeyKong
“I’m not saying Jonah Goldberg is a child molester that wears latex body suits and cruises middle schools but………c’mon look at the guy.”
anonevent
@Butch: Have you been to a theater that is showing it tomorrow? They’ve got this annoying ad that plays whose message is “Why is Glenn Beck crying so hard? So that hopefully he’ll have it all out of his system, and maybe he’ll be funny.” It drives me nuts.
El Cid
@kid bitzer: Oh, god, that hurt.
Dreggas
Now I see where my father gets the idea we will all be somehow forced to buy and drive “Obama-mobiles”.
TheFountainHead - 'Easily Led'
OH NOES! Obama went back in time, colluded with Hitler to create the Volkswagen, which is now putting GM out of business cause it’s all a muslimmy subplot!
Also.
Hitler.
kay
@Bill E Pilgrim:
They do it all the time. You can’t demand someone RESIGN from the House or Senate or a Supreme Court slot unless you intend to pursue it.
They demand someone resign like every twenty minutes.
What’s after “resign!”. Nothing.
Brick Oven Bill
Glenn Beck rocks. Alas, I will be unable to see his show as I am stuck on a hill. I probably wouldn’t go anyway.
Following meetings with certain public servants, I did make it down to town to get a weekly shot of his therapeutic show, and Beck asked a good question (paraphrasing):
‘Why in the world would America turn our automobile industry to a 31-yr old political science major ‘on leave’ from Yale who has never worked in the private sector?’
His guest’s answer was good I thought:
‘Because we are turning the automotive industry into a federal jobs program.’
If Moody’s biggest shareholder wasn’t the President’s economic advisor, who thinks our national credit rating would still be AAA?
kid bitzer
@46–
hey, how often are you going to find a thread and a crowd
that will appreciate humour based on crappy foreign cars and g.i. slang, together?
AnotherBruce
Wow that’s great, can I steal this word? Or is it already stolen?
Uhh, wingularity that is.
Gordon, The Big Express Engine
@Dreggas: “Obama-mobiles” are the Panzer divisions of liberal fascism.
Bill E Pilgrim
Does this mean that black helicopters are passé?
BruceK
“Wingularity” is already out there – it’s even got its own blog now.
wingularity.wordpress.com/
An ideological Black Hole, where the rules of the outside universe break down, tearing apart the reality around it and sucking the fragments down into a vortex from which nothing can escape or survive.
The only problem with the approaching wingularity is that a lot of us sane folk will get eaten when it reaches critical mass and density.
anonevent
@Brick Oven Bill: You know, Bill, I turn by safety over every day to 20-something people who have never worked in the private sector and it’s working out just fine.
I love regulated capitalism, I think it’s the best system we’re gonna get while we still feel the need to use money as a basis for exchange of goods and services. But the private sector has sucked at regulating itself, and GM’s, Chrysler’s, and Citi’s collapse over the past nine or so months has shown that they can’t work by themselves. If they don’t want to have the government trying to save them, then maybe they should do their jobs better.
Bill E Pilgrim
Okay my sources confirm:
Volkswagens are the new black. Helicopter.
Also.
jcricket
I think the problem is that wingnutism is more like one of those limit functions from calculus, where you approach the wingularity, but you never actually get there.
But this exchange proves perfectly why Republicans are losing “moderates” left and right. No one, outside of hardcore Limbaugh listeners or crazies like Roeder, think what Republicans are saying has any resemblence to reality. They don’t see Obama as a fascist. They don’t see government intervention (at least right now) as a problem. In fact, with every passing month, they seem to like what Obama and other Democrats are doing (collectively) more and more.
They may not be 100% sold, so there’s plenty of opportunity for “sane” Republicans to tell much smaller, more reasonable lies, and get the “independents” back. But Republicans seem to think out-flanking the Democrats by going all-Buchanan, all-the-time is the smart strategy. Yeah, that’s the ticket.
Comrade Dread
I have objections to the government assuming control of corporations, however, this is rather stupid.
Tell you what, Jonah, if Obama invades Poland, I owe you a coke.
tc125231
Bill E Pilgrim
@jcricket:
Zeno’s paradox of Wingnuttery, eh?
Makes sense.
Here’s something though: So you agree and I agree and “everyone” agrees as you say that these are fringe, 20 percent, nutcase tiny slice of the populace losers at this point.
So why is everyone so aware of them, as if they’re half the population? Why is Dick Cheney, their wingnuttiest leader, being charecterized as having a “duel” with Barack Obama when Cheney is a largely despised figure approved of by a vanishing fraction and Obama is a fairly beloved President with a 70 percent approval rating?
Some liberal media, ain’t it?
We’re still plagued by it. If the Wingnuts consisted of only Fred Phelps, Glenn Beck and fourteen others we’d still hear about how they were “dueling” with Obama and they’d get any speech they gave against his played in prime time.
tc125231
@cleek:
gnomedad
OT, did anyone catch “Earth 2100” last night? I was completely unaware of it. Most of the comments at the website that did not contain the words “Gorebasm” or “Obamanation” were pretty supportive.
Brachiator
@Buffalopundit:
Wait a minute. I thought that black Tito was one of the Jackson 5.
Jason
@kay:
Mammon and Satan? Pol Pot and PolPotianism? Laurel and Hardy?
gex
@jcricket: Each step we take is half the distance to the wingularity.
Brick Oven Bill
I disagree with you anonevent. Capitalism was not allowed to work in the case of the automobile industry. Capitalism is allowing companies to fail, having others pick up the pieces for however many cents on the dollar they are worth, and then making another go of it.
The automotive industry is now Amtrak. Food on the trains used to be excellent, I believe that I once posted a very good recipe from the old Burlington California Zephyr. It was a barbequed beef dish with onions.
On the Amtrak California Zephyr, all of the food is microwaved. You can get one of those soup cups, or pre-packaged White Castle Hamburgers, or a crappy pizza where all of the cheese has fallen to one side of the crust while it was in frozen storage before being loaded on the train for the uninterested unionized attendant to microwave for you in exchange for $5. A beer is like $6 now. This is why I always sneak on a bottle of whiskey. You can put whiskey into an empty can of Pepsi and they never figure it out.
I take that back, the smart ones figure it out. And then in exchange for continued high rates of tipping, they will give you several glasses of ice when you go up to buy more Pepsis.
The stakes are far higher with our industrial base, and this phase of our experiment will end poorly, with hyperinflation and the failure of the social safety net I am afraid. Hopefully we can learn from it. I think that we will.
Will Danz
Beck AND Goldberg?
Wow, that’s the World Series of Dumb, right there.
gnomedad
@BruceK:
I seem to recall that it was started in response to the genesis of the term at this blog, and I’ve been assuming it was mainly a gag, but I just checked it out, and it’s quite decent. Going on my reading list, actually.
tc125231
@The Moar You Know:
Buffalopundit
@Brachiator Zing!
El Cid
I would go see Glenn Beck’s live “comedy” show in theaters but I’m standing in a puddle. One time I ate popcorn on a merry-go-round, but nowadays they charge a million dollars for caramel corn. This shows how they never let real industrialism come to the snack industry since a paddleboat used to be the only way down the Mississippi.
rock
@BOB:
So clearly, the fact that food on American airlines sucks and that Lufthansa is pretty good is evidence that US government interference is ruining US airlines as well.
Anyway, it sounds to me like Amtrak is trying to keep costs down — is that not what you would want? Also, better food isn’t going to make people ride the train more.
Economics is hard because the system is immensely complex which means simple thought experiments don’t generalize to the real world well. But there is empirical evidence that “liquidate everything” does not yield an economy that most people will be happy with.
BenA
@SpotWeld:
The only real jokes there are going to be the people that would show up to see it.
LV-426
@ricky:
GTOs are made in Australia, they are Holden Monaros and the looks are a blatent rip off of the BMW 3 Series 99-06. Otherwise SWEET!!
LanceThruster
Maybe Jonah means that GM will start stealing engineering ideas like Germany did when they borrowed copiously from the Czech Tatra design.
When Germany invaded Czechoslovakia in 1938, the Nazi authorities monitored closely the Tatra company’s output. The T-87 was permitted in limited numbers as an ‘autobahn’ car, while its successor, the intended mass-market T-97, was suppressed to make way for Porsche’s Volkswagen, the design of which may have been influenced by the Czech car.
See: Tatra 600 – Tatraplan: A Mass-Produced Teardrop Car
and
Modernism: Designing a New World 1914-1939
Thomas Levenson
Fie on all comment double taps.
apologies to all here.
Thomas Levenson
@Sarcastro: Per Wikipedia on VWs: Corollas have been redesigned many times; there is essentially no connection between today’s model and ones sold 20 years ago, much less the yet earlier ones. The VW Beetle was essentially a single model with a continuously improved but consistent design — rear engine, air cooled four banger of modest size within a shape that remained essentially constant for over sixty years.
By that measure, I’d say the Beetle is the best selling model ever.
The Moar You Know
@tc125231: Only if his broken, maternally dominated soul tore free from his carbon-monoxide poisoned body and took possession of mine when I was age three, which we all must admit is a possible but exceptionally unlikely occurrence.
TR
They were the ones in the savings and loan scandal, right?
Martin
Capitalism failed the auto industry decades ago through consolidation. We can accept allowing companies to fail if we also have a system that allows new entrants to the market. What successful new entrants have we had to the auto market to take GMs place other than two overseas-based multinationals, one of which was a larger entity than GM when it showed up? Consolidation has made it nearly impossible for new entrants to the marketplace. We should have dozens to hundreds of Tesla Motors, but we have one, and its future is questionable at best.
If free-market capitalism is what people want, they need to stop erecting these massive corporations which stifle competition. What guys like BOB mistake for capitalism is simple profiteering by the folks on Wall Street. They want their profits and fuck competition – monopolies are what they want and they’ll move the ball as close to that point as the government will let them. Their goal is a corporate state, not capitalism, not fair markets. I don’t know why the drown the government in the bathtub group want to sell us all into indentured servitude, but that’s what they keep insisting on.
BOB suggests that others would pick up the pieces and make another go of it, but how likely is that really? More often than not, those pieces get disbursed among the remaining players and the market winds up with one less participant – primarily due to the risks of competing in an over-dominated marketplace.
Patriot
@ Gordon, The Big Express Engine: Perfect! Who doesn’tlike tanks?
Beck’s response to Goldberg was to give a seig heil, go off on his usual crying jag and then try to choke himself on air.
Between gasps, he yells that the Panzer Divisions of Liberal Fascism, I’m not calling him Hitler but Mussolini because he has kind of a Mediterranean Mandingo-look, are coming to take him away.
On cue from director, Goldberg throws glass of tap water in Beck’s face. Beck shakes it off. Tastes it. Says his tears taste salty. Asks Goldberg to taste his tears. Goldberg throws empty glass at him but misses. Cameras go off and Beck tells Goldberg that’s what method acting is all about.
They give each other the terrorist fist bump. Goldberg leaves for Mossad AIPAC meeting. Beck stays. Does public service announcement for Republican National Committee seeking to have Puerto Rico expelled as a U.S. territory. Accuses Michael Steele of not meeting the expectations of his race by failing to live up to high oxymoronic standards of being Black Republican set by Clarence Thomas and Condi Rice and, lastly, by the guy duped by Bush and Cheney, Colin Powell before he committed treason by voting for Obama, not J Mac.
Martin
Where in California is an open beer not $6? Go to any of our corporately owned and named ballparks and you’ll be lucky to get out for $6.
harlana pepper
@Brick Oven Bill:
Fixed
Napoleon
@Thomas Levenson:
You are absolutely right, it is not a fair comparison.
Heck, you can even use the same replacement engine case to rebuild any of the engines from the carburated 1200cc through the fuel injected 1600. I bet you on the Corrolla you can’t even use the same fuses on an original one and one sold today.
I raced a Beetle based race car for years and the fact that the parts were pretty consistant over the years made getting replacements easier.
dr.hypercube
Bitchin’ Camaro
Bitchin’ Camaro
Doughbob on your lawn!
Bitchin’ Camaro
Bitchin’ Camaro
Tony Orlando and Dawn!
w/ appy-polly-loggies to the Dead Milkmen
Also – I’m in for a pop-top Obama van.
Brick Oven Bill
Another thing that pisses me off about this fascist Amtrak train company, which is the model of this 31-yr old cluebag Auto Czar who has never held a job, is smoking. Back in the day you could smoke on the train in some of the cars. And then it was limited to a part of the lounge car until a certain time after which you could smoke anywhere in the lounge car you wanted.
And then it was just downstairs in the lounge car. And then you couldn’t smoke in the lounge car at all and they put the smokers in a white room in the bottom of a coach car. This then became the most fun place in the train. We would play guitar and sometimes there were other guitar players and it was great. I have seen the sun rise during one of these sessions along with a white room still full of people. I met my wife on the train.
And now these bastards have banned smoking altogether on the train. The reason? Cigarette smoke can make oxygen tanks explode, they say. I’m not a big smoker, but I enjoy an occasional cigarette, and tend to enjoy the company of smokers to that of non-smokers watching some dumb Disney movie, and feel bad for these guys and detest what Amtrak has done to the train experience.
This is the nature of government enterprises. They creep and sterilize and should be minimized. The American automobile industry is toast.
Zifnab
@Brick Oven Bill:
20% of the blue collar work force is employed by the automotive industry. “Allowing them to fail” means putting some 4 million people out of work. That’s a simple economic argument. 4 million people out of work is bad for the economy.
Then there’s the definition of “capitalism” (wiki link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism that references both dictionary definitions and text book definitions) which, unless my reference is missing something, does not mention “allowing companies to fail”. While BoB might think he’s got a pretty keen grasp on economic theory, he appears to be – once again – pulling shit out of his ass and smearing it across his screen. If you want to argue about the merits of “laissez-faire” government policy, you are welcome to do so, but then you’re not arguing about capitalism versus socialism at all, you’re arguing about government action or inaction. A multi-million dollar capital infusion from a state entity does not make a business less of a capitalist enterprise.
LD50
@Dreggas:
I wouldn’t mind owning an Obamamobile.
Sad_Dem
I’m not calling Beck and Goldberg a couple of evil tools, and I’m not going to compare them to Stalin, Quisling, Mao, or Pol Pot, because there are some differences, mostly having to do with how often Beck and Goldberg wear makeup.
El Cid
@Brick Oven Bill: You’re an artist.
Martin
Since you mentioned you’re on the CA Zephyr, you might as well know you can hardly smoke anywhere in the state, and certainly not in any public space such as a train.
And since our under 18 smoking rate is now 1/3 of most other states, nobody here gives a fuck if it inconveniences you. Our policy is working.
LanceThruster
Goldberg will probably want to have GM engineers jailed for collaboration with Obama much as Tatra designer Hans Ledwinka was for supposedly helping the Nazis. (see: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Ledwinka ).
See what the VW Beetle originated from here: autohistories.com/tatra/Tatra-v570l.jpg
and here; autohistories.com/tatra/Tatra_history_auto3.html
Tax Analyst
Yah, and Obama is going to nationalize Michael Jackson to save him from bankruptcy. We’re all going to own 65% of Michael’s gloves and maybe be allowed to hum tunes from the Gloved One’s Beatles catalogue.
tripletee (formerly tBone)
I always get the feeling that Jonah’s deep political thoughts are reflective of his childhood, when he was undoubtedly on the receiving end of a non-stop wedgie-fest.
The Moar You Know
@Martin: As an asthmatic and non-smoker, I have an interesting perspective on the passing of the cigarette from our society – it’s done a lot of good from a health perspective, but it has removed a bit of…diablerie from our society, if you will.
I used to be a professional musician, and the difference in the bar environment between when smoking was legal here in California and when it was banned in bars was rather remarkable. Perhaps it’s simply a consequence of being able to see more clearly, but there was a lot more action in bars pre-ban, if you catch my meaning, and I think you do.
It’s also had an unfortunate effect on the color of guitars – my old white strat is a deep golden color after having spent almost a decade in smoking bars (and still smells like an ashtray fifteen years later). It’s beautiful.
Now white guitars stay white.
Oh the whole, I mourn the passing of the cigarette from the drinking establishment. We’ve lost more than we gained.
tripletee (formerly tBone)
Is it just me, or is BOB starting to sound like a less-cogent version of Grandpa Simpson?
Brachiator
@Brick Oven Bill:
The way markets work is more complicated than your little nostalgia reverie. Train travel declined big time after the 1950s as people were able to travel considerable distances via personal automobiles on interstate highways. In parallel, there were Improvements in and a strange fascination with food vending machines like the Automat. And supermarkets stocked fresher and a wider variety of foods.
End result: More people were taking shorter trips on trains, and also bringing their own food. Fancy, tastier meals took too long to prepare relative to trip length, were becoming more expensive, and fewer people were buying. And oh yeah, more people started flying than taking the train, especially the upper middle classes who previously would take long train trips.
And sadly, I have to note that the unions added to the problem here, insisting on fully staffed dining cars even as the market for train dining faded, which led the train operators to make train food crappier and more expensive.
The lesson, and this applies to the auto industry as well, is that the way in which markets react to — and adapt to — social and technological changes is messy, complicated and leads to unexpected outcomes.
So quit bitchin’ about change you don’t like.
Tax Analyst
I don’t suppose that’s the White Room from the song of the same title by Cream?
Remember? I think the first line goes:
“In a White Room/with BOB’s current/new fixation”
or something like that.
Dreggas
@Martin:
As someone who’s in the process of trying to quit smoking (again) I can appreciate these policies since they do make it inconvenient to be a smoker and still leave ones house.
On the other hand there’s just as many carcinogens spewed on the 405 and other freeways on a daily basis (if not more) due to car exhaust. Should we ban driving everywhere as well?
The smoking bans are not the reason that under 18 kids aren’t smoking. The reason is because of informative public campaigns and the fact that smoking just isn’t “cool” anymore (smoking cigarettes anyway). Kids get that smoking is an addiction that can, and in many cases will kill them and it’s just not worth it to start.
Prohibition didn’t work for alcohol and it certainly won’t work for cigarettes.
gex
@Martin: I think that the problem is that people have differing interpretations of the “free” in free markets. The Reaganomics version means corporations can do whatever they want without interference in the market. If that leads to one giant overarching company called UniCorp that produces everything, so be it. While others think that the “free” in free markets refers to producers and consumers being able to participate in markets with minimal barriers to entry, free flow of information, and competition to set price points.
The former have had their way for far too long.
harlana pepper
I’m not getting how this is different from the Wall Street bailout, other than the fact that unions are involved. What am I missing in this whinefest?
I’m sick of unions being flat-out demonized. Is it pure anathema to even mention workers’ rights? Having been dragged through the shitheap of contract work for the last few years, I can attest to the fact that, IF you are lucky enough to have a job, your employer can fuck ya frontwards, backwards and sideways for small change. Y’see, SC is a “right to hire” state which really means employer’s “right to fire” after they squeeze out the last drop of sweat and are done with your sorry ass as long as discrimination is not involved (or rather, cannot be *proven*) —- I AM NOT saying the GM model is the answer, but shit, all you have to do is look at working conditions at the turn of the century and know that the concept of workers’ rights should be as American as apple pie.
Demonizing unions is demonizing workers’ rights and I’m not ready for serfdom just yet.
Irony Abounds
Guess what, it was toast before the government became involved, so at worst it’s in no worse shape than it was before. At least now there is a chance, albeit a slight one, that a real live company can emerge so that some decent paying jobs can be preserved. Ditto for our financial industry. It would be in an ash heap if the government hadn’t thrown billions at it. AIG’s criminal negligence was worse than an government horror story imaginable.
Sarcastro
Um, Ted Kennedy was driving an 1968 Oldsmobile Delmont 88 (with the 455ci mill IIRC) that night. A car that weighed well over two tons.
The joke, from an old, old National Lampoon, is an ad showing a Beetle floating in the water with the caption “If Ted Kennedy drove a VW he’d be president today”.
Martin
Here I will indulge BOB by proposing a bit of capitalism. This sounds like a great opportunity for a small business – making cheap humidors that you can put your guitar into along with a smouldering brick of tobacco to achieve that nice weathered look.
My uncle is a blues musician (drums, vocals) and the continuous smoke from clubs robbed him of his voice (and his spot in the band). After some time away from it his voice returned and he tries to stick to smoke-free venues now (which is damn hard when you live in NC). I generally value the texture that comes to society from our vices, so I appreciate your point, but since my wife also sings and cannot retain her range with smoking nearby, I’m going to have to come down in their favor.
gex
@Martin: I believe the correct response is if you don’t like it, GTFO. At least, that’s what conservatives tell me when I complain about not being able to get married.
Zifnab
@Brick Oven Bill:
20% of the blue collar work force is employed by the automotive industry. “Allowing them to fail” means putting some 4 million people out of work. That’s a simple economic argument. 4 million people out of work is bad for the economy.
Then there’s the definition of “capitalism” (wiki link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism that references both dictionary definitions and text book definitions) which, unless my reference is missing something, does not mention “allowing companies to fail”. While BoB might think he’s got a pretty keen grasp on economic theory, he appears to be – once again – pulling shit out of his ass and smearing it across his screen. If you want to argue about the merits of “laissez-faire” government policy, you are welcome to do so, but then you’re not arguing about capitalism versus soci alism at all, you’re arguing about government action or inaction. A multi-million dollar capital infusion from a state entity does not make a business less of a capitalist enterprise.
Martin
What was the last time we had a stage 1 smog alert, let alone a 2, 3, or 4? It’s been years since we’ve had even one day, where we used to have 100+ per year.
The car exhaust problem has been massively improved and the state keeps pushing that along as well.
But if you can show me a study of how many people couldn’t get to work because we banned smoking, I’d be happy to reconsider my position.
Steeplejack
@anonevent:
This reminds me once again that the last two times I went to the DMV–once in Virginia, once in Georgia–it was actually okay. Pretty good, in fact. It’s never going to be like the speed-checkout lane at the supermarket, but compared with “private sector” events with paperwork and legal bullshit–a doctor’s appointment or closing on a house, say–it worked fine. And this in spite of the usual percentage of fellow citizens showing up with no paperwork, the wrong paperwork, etc.
Both places I went (suburb of D.C., suburb of Atlanta) had big waiting areas with lots of chairs. The “now serving” signs and messages were all automated and easy to follow, and things seemed to flow pretty well. Both times I was in and out in under an hour–not bad for a “big” transaction (getting a new physical driver’s license).
Martin
Two things to keep in mind:
Train travel was dependent on light rail to get people from their homes to the major rail hubs. Without that, you needed a car, and once you had the car, you’d just use the car.
GM and other auto players controlled National City Lines and other companies that went around and bought out the light rail lines and dismantled them. The rail industry didn’t die out because they went out of favor, it died out because the auto industry deliberately killed it.
You could call that free-market, I suppose, but the behavior was no different from having the government do it, except that we have a say in the government, but we don’t have a say when a group of corporations does it. Personally, I’d rather have a vote than not have one.
And the only reason the interstate system exists is that the government built it. Had the auto industry had to pay for those roads, as the railroads had to pay for their lines, this never would have happened. So BOB is just decrying one form of government intervention in favor of another and pretending that the one he likes never happened.
RememberNovember
@Buffalopundit:
“the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor”
“Shhh he’s on a roll….”
more like a baker’s dozen rolls. Cut the carbs Jonah your brain will thank you.
Laura W
@tripletee (formerly tBone): I don’t think BOB is himself today.
Dreggas
@Martin:
Sorry but that doesn’t fly. If banning smoking is about public health then surely we should ban big rigs, cars and other modes of transportation which produce carcinogens.
Smog may be reduced, but there’re a lot more dangers in car exhaust than getting a slight wiff of cigarette smoke from down the block or on the sidewalk (which now cities are banning smoking even while walking down the sidewalk). Indoors, yeah banning smoking makes sense in restaurants, even bars. The same goes for airplanes, trains, and other enclosed spaces. The outdoor bans, to me, make no sense.
For example I was at a mini-golf course. Signs everywhere said no smoking, however no more than 100 feet away was the 405 freeway with big rigs and other cars spewing more carcinogens than my one cigarette would have.
As I stated, it does make it somewhat easier for me to quit, but at the same time it makes little sense other than a feel good measure further demonizing a small segment of society. Add to that some places trying to ban smoking even in your own home or apartment it gets even crazier.
Bubblegum Tate
Yes! (Also, I’m proud of myself for actually remembering limits…damn calculus.)
Steeplejack
@kid bitzer:
Yeah, you have to take the shot when you’ve got it. Opportunities like that don’t come along very often.
Good joke, too. I lived in England for a while as a kid, and we had a Vauxhall Victor.
Wile E. Quixote
@anonevent
Really, that doesn’t sound too bad if it’s like the DMV in Washington State. The last two times I went in to renew my license I was out in less than 20 minutes. I’ll take that over trying to deal with any of the “customer service” departments of the cell phone providers I’ve dealt with over the years.
Is it just me or is it way past time that someone just beat the shit out of Jonah Goldberg and/or Glenn Beck? Seriously, just clean the floor with their fat punk asses and make them cry. Show everyone how fat, bloated, worthless and weak they are, despite their tough talk and willingness to send other people off to foreign lands to kill brown people.
gex
@Martin:
Ah, so BOB’s a libertarian. Explains a lot.
Steeplejack
@TR:
No, that was Buster Keating and those silent movie guys. I think it was called Your Money or Your Wife.
Wile E. Quixote
@Sarcastro
And here is the National Lampoon VW ad parody in all of its glory.
Tony J
Wow. I guess Goldberg caught the Obamalove bug and now sees him through a poetical soft-focus where he is so vast that he, quite literally, contains multitudes.
Remembers who Jonah Goldberg actually is, flicks through Wingnut Codebook.
Oh, guess not. Turns out that calling an individual “Nazis” in the plural is basic crypto-biblespeak for “Call Me Legion, For We are Many” and is a sign that you’d better donate to God’s Own Party because the Antichrist is at large and the Rapture is a comin’.
My mistake.
Martin
You don’t understand the difference between a necessity and a luxury, do you?
What would be left of our economy if we banned cars?
What would be left of our economy if we banned smoking?
See the difference? Cars are a necessary evil right now. Smoking isn’t. And every policy creates it’s contradictions. I don’t think there is any policy requiring mini-golf to ban smoking, so take that one up with management, but even if it was covered, so the law state “No smoking unless it’s an outdoor establishment within 100 feet of a freeway”. You really want legislation to work like that?
And it’s not to demonize smokers, but what part of “Does my fresh air bother you?” don’t you guys get? If I came over to your table at a restaurant and puked under your chair, you’d be pretty annoyed with having to sit there and eat, yet somehow *I’m* the bad guy for not wanting to share your Marlboro every time I go into a restaurant?
You are free to smoke in your car and in your home. Enjoy that. Really, please do. Go crazy smoking there. Don’t be shocked if I decline a dinner invitation, but I’d be happy to go out and get a bite with you.
Wile E. Quixote
Oh, and if Jonah Goldberg, a fat, walking talking, living, breathing argument for 140th trimester abortion weren’t such an ignorant, cowardly momma’s boy piece of shit he might realize that that horrible fascist car was produced until 2003 in Mexico. Interestingly enough the last VW bug rolled off the assembly line on 30 June 2003, the same day that Buddy “The Love Bug” Hackett, left this mortal coil. Not bad for a fascist car.
I once considered buying an old piece of shit bug, registering it. Driving it across the border into Mexico, buying a new bug, switching the license plates and driving back.
lawnorder
They also drank beer in Germany. The similarities are just uncanny!
Do you think Germans ate the proper yellow bland “Real American” mustard ? No they ate them fancy strong ones. And Bratwurst. That is it, proof Obama is an islamo-fascist-muslin german nazi born on Indonesia / motherland!!!!
Brachiator
@Sad_Dem:
So Beck and Goldberg are apophasis-holes.
jcricket
@Bill E Pilgrim:
I’d say it’s 1/3rd historical – the two parties have had a fairly equal share of the American populace, over time. This kind of shift takes time.
1/3rd is the way the media reports on it. They still poll/report on what “Republicans” and “Democrats” think. You know, if Democrats are 40% of the population, and Republicans 20%, it doesn’t matter if all Republicans oppose something. Especially if “Independents” think as Democrats do. If the media would report on “Democrats, Independents and Republicans” and make sure that they include the % of the population, it would help. But they like the he-said/she-said two-sides style of reporting. Doing three sides might ‘splode their wittle brains.
1/3rd is that these self-same non-representative freaks are VERY FUCKING LOUD, and have succeeded at mainstreaming their views (see having Tancredo, Coulter, Buchanan, etc. on mainstream news programs). This makes them seem more popular than they are.
That’s my take on it any way.
jcricket
My experience as well.
Really, it’s the Democrats own fault for letting Republicans demonize government and taxation. Sure, Republicans are at fault for being racist, incendiary blowhards that prey on people’s weaknesses and sell them on the “Two Santa Claus Theory” (unlimited services, no taxes). But Democrats have failed for years to articulate a positive case for our own agenda and to counter the transparent bullshit spewing forth from the other side.
That the American public has, essentially, woken up on its own after a disaster of epic proportions brought on by the fecklessness and disastrous non-government run by the Republicans from 2000-2008 is a miracle on the order of the 1980 US olympic hockey team.
If Democrats fail to capitalize on this opportunity to engage with Americans and “sell” our agenda, we deserve electoral defeat again.
Mnemosyne
@Dreggas:
Actually, the places that have successfully banned smoking were able to do it on the basis of worker health, not public health. It’s not so bad for you to go into a smoky bar for a couple of hours, but when you’re a waiter/waitress or bartender who’s in there 20 to 40 hours a week, you start having health problems from the secondhand smoke, or your existing health problems are exacerbated.
That’s why there’s never been an outcry from business owners to bring smoking back in the places where it’s been banned — now that they realize how much money they’re saving because their employees aren’t sick all of the time, you’ll have to drag the smoking ban from their cold, dead hands.
Fun fact: I used to work in a building that was built in the late 1960s or early 1970s and every stall in the ladies’ bathroom had a built-in ashtray. I can only imagine the cloud people used to have to walk through every day.
DanSmoot'sGhost
@Cat Lady:
Heh. I had a ’66 bug. Beautiful car, seriously. People would offer to buy it off me at the gas station. Great fun, sort of a dune buggy with glass windows.
Absolute piece of shit in every respect. Dangerous, uncomfortable, noisy, crash-unsafe, hideous electrical system, nonexistent heat and defrosting capability, undriveable in the rain with out a towel on my lap to wipe the fog off the windows, useless windshield wipers, a motor that required just about daily tuning, incapable of cooling itself in the desert in the summer (the air cooling for the cylinder heads was not made for hot climates, greatly shortening the life of the motor), underpowered and slow, hot in the summer and cold in the winter, and with a bad habit of leaving engine parts on the road and me walking.
The car enjoyed a long sales life because it was cheap, parts were ubiquitous, every mechanic thought he could fix them but most really couldn’t, and did I mention, it was cheap?
Loved it and hated it. Never again, though.
jcricket
Or the two SNL skits:
1) Little Chocolate Donuts. John Belushi talking about how they help him with his endurance as he’s smoking a cigarette
2) The one set in a hospital, where everyone (patients, doctors, nurses) is smoking and the Dr. points to the mass on one patient’s X-ray (quite clearly a cancerous lung) and says, “there’s a smudge here, not sure why”.
That’s really how it was. I remember going to Roy Rogers (the restaurant) and being in the tiny, tiny, non-smoking section (which was a joke as the smoke wafted over their heads). No way parents would be taking kids to places full of smoke these days.
Little Dreamer
They seem to forget, Obama is not a man who would be a war president of his own volition. He is cleaning up wars from the “war president”.
I see more in common between Hitler and Bush (and Beck and Goldberg liked that Bush guy, mostly).
Gordon, The Big Express Engine
@jcricket: Or old family photos of grandmother (as a young lady) pushing the swing with a cigarette in her mouth and a pregnant tummy…
shelley matheis
“
The answer is that the hack has a book to sell. Saw he was on Michael Medved’s radio show yesterday and then on Fox? Went to Amazon and, yup, Liberal Fascism just came out in paperback yesterday. You think this guy would bother unless he’s got something to shill?
Mike in NC
Thanks for sharing the secret of your success!
Dreggas
@Martin:
As I said They are even trying to ban smoking in the car or in your home so again your point doesn’t fly. Further I agree with no smoking in restaurants and have stated as much.
As for the economy. How many state programs would fall flat due to lack of revenue that was based on taxing cigarettes? I remember prop 86 (i am sure that was the number) last time was put on the ballot to back fill funding that was lost to programs because of people quitting after the last smokers tax increase. Also see SCHIP. Yeah a great program but one funded on the backs of people who smoke.
Would the economy fail if we banned smoking? Probably not but I bet a lot of public programs would. Like I said, I am quitting (and hopefully this time for good). The reason I am quitting? Because I swore after I went back to bury my sister last week I was going to quit for my own health. The bans will make it easier that’s for sure. However banning smoking on a beach that has the breeze from the ocean disipating the smoke because that one little wiff of smoke is a greater health risk than the exhaust coming off of the beach patrol’s vehicle. Or banning it on a street because that cigarette is somehow worse than the exhaust coming from the cars on the street is just plain dumb.
As for clean air, after a trip to upstate NY over memorial day I can state quite matter of factly that the air there was far fresher and far sweeter than the air I breathe on the way home during rush hour and not because of someone who is smoking.
Dreggas
@Mnemosyne:
Oh no doubt. However many of the bars I have been to here in Cal either now have smoking patios (if the city hasn’t banned smoking in public period) or they sell you an ashtray for 5 bucks to help pay for any fines they get if you get caught smoking in their bar.
Willem van Oranje
This spoof Volkswagen commercial is probably the perfect illustration of what happened in that precious little “dialogue”
youtube.com/watch?v=cZMITiGh-f0
Northern Observer
Goldberg and Beck.
Now that’s what I call comedy.
Cain
@Buffalopundit:
That’s because nobody knows who those people are. Everybody knows Hitler though! The anti-democracy guy! We saved democracy from him! Woohoo!! Fucking choots.
cain
InflatableCommenter
@Little Dreamer:
They seem to forget everything, our adversaries.
As luck would have it, we remember stuff.
Heh.
Senyordave
I’m not calling “Fill in the Blank” a child-molesting, goat f***ing, baby killing, country-betraying, satan worshipping piece of sh*t, but I will put the idea in your head by swearing that I’m not making that comparison.
These assholes like Goldberg, Santorum, etc. must be a dream come true to the White House. With dickheads like them around, there is no debate over real policies.
Zuzu's Petals
@rock:
By the way, having just come off week plus – long Amtrak trip that included the California Zephyr, I can tell you BoB is full of crap about the food. Yes, it’s pre-prepared just like airline food, but unless he’s talking about stuff you buy in the snack bar, the dining car menu is more varied than one would imagine (even if it is served on plastic plates now). The snack bar food has always been…well, snack bar food.
And you’re right, I don’t know anyone who travels Amtrak for the food. The best part of the dining car experience is the people you meet.
Cain
@gex:
I hope everyone was alright!
cain
Little Dreamer
@Zuzu’s Petals:
Gosh, ZP, I’m sure you didn’t need to take a trip to figure out BOB is full of crap!
Edit: (Whoops! Perhaps I should have said: “BOB is not full of crap, his standards are just lower than yours”. ;)
;)
Glad you had a good time.
Martin
Yes, some people. Some people say all kinds of things. Tell me when a bill is close to passing. And the smoking in houses/cars proposal I last saw a few years back only applied if there was a child in the house/car, and even that didn’t get any traction.
Probably not because if you look at what the tax funds, it tends to be things that the state incurs added expense for due to smoking. Sure, SCHIP funds would go down, but so would childhood athsma, etc. as well as costs associated with treating adults with emphysema, heart problems, and so on. *And* we have the problem of those individuals falling out of the workforce prematurely. My MIL started drawing benefits at age 40ish because her emphysema took her out of the workforce and landed her on permanent disability. So what gets lost in tobacco taxes would get made up to some extent in reduced service expenses and added revenues from income and payroll taxes.
Jager
Jonah reminds me of a kid who sat next to me in a high school English class. He seldom bathed, had blackheads on top of his zits and when he cleaned his glasses he put the entire lens inside his mouth…if I can find his picture from a yearbook I’ll post it next to one of Jonah…twin brothers a generation apart!
asiangrrlMN
“I’m not a big, fat, wanking racist, but…” Any time someone starts out a sentence with “I’m not” or “I’m not saying”, you know he is, and he is saying. I saw Jonah on The Daily Show, and Jonah couldn’t even put together a coherent sentence. Talk about nepotism working!
By the way, if we’re talking dream cars, I have always wanted a Lamborghini.
Zuzu's Petals
@Little Dreamer:
It was a great trip…cross country and back. Got a 15-day pass so made a lot of stops, visited friends and family, and saw some spectacular scenery.
Zuzu's Petals
This might be a good time to re-link to Scott Eric Kauffman’s excellent post on interacting with Goldberg, and LF generally.
The post title is one of my favorite descriptions of the book ever:
Liberal Fascism: Two Words Next to Each Other
Zuzu's Petals
@Martin:
Actually, beer on Amtrak is like $3.50 for domestic and $4.50 for premium. See my link to the menu @142.
Martin
Even cheaper than the corporate-run ballparks. Perhaps BOB was upset that it was so relatively cheap and we all misunderstood.
Brachiator
@Martin:
Yeah, but it’s not like the rail industry grew on trees. There was a great documentary on one of my digital TV stations about the rail industry, and how they paid and bribed the states and the feds for rights of way.
The rail industry deserved to die, for the most part. The model I use is the difference between stage coaches and horses (I grew up in Texas, sorry). With a car, you drive where you want to go. With rail, you have to go where the tracks are laid, even if the destinations are no longer relevant. It’s easier to build new roads than to lay new track, especially if the rules are that the old track must stay in place as well.
It’s also kinda like laptops vs desktops. And iPods and Kindles. Mobility and flexibility always rule.
Do you really? A friend brought my attention to a story about a fight in California over unlisted phone numbers. Here is the money quote from the article:
Let me ask you, when was the last time that you looked up a phone number in the White pages or called for directory assistance? Also, keep in mind that the vast majority of cell phone numbers are already unlisted, and the number of people who have only land lines is diminishing faster than CDs replaced LPS. So the state legislators and the phone companies are fighting over a service that is already obsolete.
The point, and this also relates to the auto industry, is not that markets must be totally “free” in order to transform the economy. But also, government — and voters — often get in the way of progress because they sometimes get stuck on defending the status quo when the fight is totally meaningless.
Ryan Cunningham
I’m not calling Goldberg a pig raper. I’m not saying that he enjoys forcing himself sexually on swine or anything like that. But pig rapers have been known to have the word Gold in their name. Not that this makes Goldberg a pig raper, but there have been times in history where people like him have been known to rape pigs.
Ryan Cunningham
“But also, government—and voters—often get in the way of progress because they sometimes get stuck on defending the status quo when the fight is totally meaningless.”
But this NEVER happens to The Holy Market.
Josh Hueco
Robert Paxton should sodomize Jonah Goldberg with a fucking chainsaw for pulling this shit.
Mnemosyne
I don’t know why it’s become funnier and funnier to me throughout the day that Jonah would claim that one of the most popular cars ever — one that you still see driving down the street every day in either classic or new form — didn’t fill a market need, but it has. I’m wondering if he even knows what a “market” is other than a buzzword that wormed its way into his head as he slept through his economics classes in college that he thinks makes him sound really knowledgeable.
I mean, really — Volkswagen? Volkswagen is your best example of something that was forced on people by politics?
ronathan richardson
This is a key piece of DougJ’s thesis of incomprehensible conservative mythology– the general process is for the idiot to refer to a generally well-liked and popular person, place, product (Bill Clinton, San Francisco, Volkswagen) and assume it to take on a negative connotation as it does in his distorted mind.
Jamey
re: 68
Until they read your writing, Brick Oven Bill….
Roslyn Sanchez
(“A person should not believe in an -ism, he should believe in himself.”)
As much as Goldberg is an idiot, I don’t think the answer is self-serving 80’s feel-good movie philosophy. There are isms that we owe a lot to – progressivism and feminism among them.