How Does He Get Away With It?

Greg Sargent appears to have caught Cheney in the middle of a lie over whether or not he has actually requested that new memos be declassified (Update- nope- Cheney was not lying– just wrong about who he asked- he put the request through the National Archives, not the CIA), but it seems like there is an even more basic lie than that. Here is what Cheney told Hannity:

One of the things that I find a little bit disturbing about this recent disclosure is they put out the legal memos, the memos that the CIA got from the Office of Legal Counsel, but they didn’t put out the memos that showed the success of the effort. And there are reports that show specifically what we gained as a result of this activity. They have not been declassified.

I formally asked that they be declassified now. I haven’t announced this up until now, I haven’t talked about it, but I know specifically of reports that I read, that I saw that lay out what we learned through the interrogation process and what the consequences were for the country.

And I’ve now formally asked the CIA to take steps to declassify those memos so we can lay them out there and the American people have a chance to see what we obtained and what we learned and how good the intelligence was, as well as to see this debate over the legal opinions.

Is this really the case? Did the Obama administration just pick and choose which memos to release?

Unless I am missing something, no. The three Bradbury memos were all released because of an ACLU legal action, and the Bybee memo was tossed on at the end in an agreement:

The Justice Department has sought an extension of the government’s deadline to decide whether to disclose three legal memoranda authored in May 2005 by Steven Bradbury, then a lawyer in the Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel (OLC). The memos authorized the CIA to subject prisoners to torture methods including waterboarding. In ongoing Freedom of Information Act litigation brought by the American Civil Liberties Union, a federal judge had given the Justice Department until today to disclose the memos or explain its refusal to do so. The ACLU has consented to extend the production deadline to April 16 in return for the government’s representation that high-level officials will consider the release not only of the Bradbury memos but also a memo authored in August 2002 by Jay S. Bybee, who was then the head of the OLC. The Bush administration had previously withheld the Bybee memo.

In other words, it appears Cheney is lying. Again. The Obama administration wasn’t just putting out memos to make Tricky Dick Two look bad, they were reacting to a specific request for those memos.

If I’m wrong about this, fill me in. Otherwise, explain to me how Cheney keeps getting away with this sort of stuff? And couldn’t he have declassified all this stuff just a few months ago?






80 replies
  1. 1
    GregB Formerly GSD says:

    John,

    Listen to Peggy and just keep on walking.

    -G

  2. 2
    Ugh says:

    but I know specifically of reports that I read, that I saw that lay out what we learned through the interrogation process and what the consequences were for the country.

    Right, we learned that when you torture someone they will tell you whatever they think you want to hear, and the consequences for the country is that its former head of state, the vice president, and many many many, senior officials down to line officers and privates in the military ended up committing war crimes in the name of the United States of America.

    Heckuva’ job Dickie.

    Oh, and, go fuck yourself.

  3. 3
    Shibby says:

    Actually (via Daily Kos) he didn’t even request that the CIA release any memos.

  4. 4
    WereBear says:

    I imagine Cheney gets away with it because the entire press corp is fearful of being shot in the face.

  5. 5

    This is good news for the ACLU. One of the difficulties of FOIA requests is that you have to ask for the release of specific documents. You can’t just ask for everything on a particular subject. This can be very frustrating, because there are a lot of times that you know generally what you want, but that isn’t good enough.

    Well, here comes Dick, wanting to release things. He should call up the ACLU, and tell them exactly what memos to ask for in their requests. I mean, he ought to know what the good stuff is. So, Dick, give your local ACLU office a call. I’m sure that they’ll be glad for your help.

  6. 6
    Gus says:

    I love to quote Twain for people like Cheney, “S’pose he opened his mouth-what then? If he didn’t shut it up powerful quick he’d lose a lie every time.”

  7. 7
    Roq says:

    It’s just a smokescreen. In every sense, not just the basic lie.

    The fact is… it’s completely. irrelevant. if they got anything from these interrogations. It is STILL against the law. Period. There is no “ends justify the means” clause.

    He can yammer away all day long about the efficacy, and he surely will, but all he’s trying to do is distract from the simple truth: he, and many others in the Administration at the highest levels, broke the law.

    The end.

  8. 8
    gbear says:

    Otherwise, explain to me how Cheney keeps getting away with this sort of stuff?

    Easy: FOX News.

    The only time he comes out of his bunker is to go lie to people who love to hear him tell lies. Cheney is set for life.

  9. 9
    MattF says:

    When I first saw that quote from Chaney I assumed that it had some relation to reality. Stupid MattF. Of course Chaney was lying.

  10. 10
    Jim says:

    Well John,remember, he’s talking to buttboy Hannity. Do you really think Sean is going to ask Cheney a single even mildly adversarial question? Do you think Cheney at this point is going to subject himself to any interview with anyone closely resembling a non-buttboy journalist?

    Your post does raise a great point. There is no question that Cheney is a loathsome human being. Why are not all the non-conservative mainstream media outlets screaming that loud and clear? Perhaps it is because there is no non-conservative mainstream media.

    Given the greed and self-absorbed belly-aching coming from Wall Street, the stinking corruption of our elected officials in Washington (Republican and Democrat alike), the utter incompetence of today’s journalists, and the rampant acceptance of all of the above by most of the citizens, I really have given up on our country. We never were as exemplary as we have claimed to be, but now we’re not even trying. Shining city on the hill? How about tarnished old mansion on the edge of the bad part of town. That is about all we aspire to be these days.

  11. 11
    Zifnab says:

    If I’m wrong about this, fill me in. Otherwise, explain to me how Cheney keeps getting away with this sort of stuff?

    Lying GOP spokesman + Lazy Media = Get Out of Jail Free Every Time

    Cheney has been publicly lying to the press since he worked for Nixon and no major cable outlet has called him on it yet. At this point, it would be weird if they did.

    I mean, for christ’s sake, he had Tim Russert pegged as the go-to guy for distributing his bullshit and Russert practically defended him over it in the Libby Trial.

    That said, you’re calling him on it. I’m sure TPM will call him on it. Most likely Olbermann will pick it up and call bullshit on it. And his party is fighting for approval ratings that rival Hugo Chavez and the clap. So I think years of lying and fucking up the country and lying about how he fucked up the country have taken their toll. Just not among the punditry. Hell, when you’re that lying/wrong, it probably just gives you more clout.

  12. 12
    Uli Kunkel says:

    I’m requesting that the CIA declassify documents showing that my penis is ginormous. (This post is that request.) Until the documents are released, assume it’s absolutely true.

  13. 13
    valdivia says:

    Greg Sargent was the one who got the scoop that no request was made from the CIA, and then called Cheney to confirm. Now Mike Allen at Politico is spinning this saying the Obama administration refuses to release what Cheney requested. What a freaking tool that guy is.

    Edit–note that the Villagers are now out there fully making this out as a fight between the Great Cheney Who Kept Us Safe and Obama and painting the push to prosecute for war crimes as a fringe leftist thing that Obama is caving to. Specifically Chuck Todd just this afternoon went with this line.

  14. 14
    Shibby says:

    Wow my reading comprehension is terrible today.

  15. 15
    Will Danz says:

    Otherwise, explain to me how Cheney keeps getting away with this sort of stuff?

    The Beltway echo machine makes it possible. It’s the most inbred, morally-blinkered, corrupt bunch of lazy-asses ever assembled.

    A long time ago they decided that Dick Cheney is respectable, competent, decent, even a great guy. And that’s how it remains. They’re just so THRILLED to get to talk to such an important man!!

    Exhibit A: John King’s recent tongue bath of Cheney. And King is CNN, the ostensibly “neutral” network (or even “liberal,” if you’re a National Review moron) — not even Fox, where you expect Hannity to do nothing but fellate Dick for hours.

    Unless and until there’s a critical mass of high-profile media people willing to challenge the likes of Cheney, and call him on his lies, he (and those like him) will exploit the weakness. And blatant lies will become Conventional Wisdom, and then: the “Truth.”

  16. 16
    El Tiburon says:

    In other words, it appears Cheney is lying. Again.

    I am Shocked!!!

    ZOMG!!!

    Cats and dogs are fornicating!

    Gerbils are running OUT of Richard Gere’s butt!

    What is this world coming to when the Ex VP of the USA would LIE to the American people? And FOX News let him?

    I’m flabbergasted.

  17. 17
    Nellcote says:

    Someone needs to tell Cheney he’s no longer in office and has no right to demand anything. Let him file a FOIA like everyone else. It’s fairly brain twisting that Cheney of all people is demanding any stuff be released considering the last 8 years.

    btw what about those 100+ interrogation tapes the CIA destroyed?

  18. 18
    gopher2b says:

    I don’t think its quite that simple. It doesn’t matter to Cheney whether they were legally obligated to release the memos or not because the law does not apply to the executive branch. In Cheney’s mind, if Obama released the memo it was because he wanted to release them – no one can tell the President what to do.

  19. 19
    JK says:

    I think the dulcet tones of Cheney’s voice are sufficient to turn even the most cynical journalist into a quivering mass of protoplasm.

    I think Cheney’s voice and his various inflections, intonations, and dramatic pauses have a disarming effect on reporters.

    I can’t for the life of me understand why, but I think the overwhelming majority of reporters genuinely like and respect Cheney.

  20. 20
    scav says:

    ok, who’s going to bell the dark lord?

  21. 21
    Anton Sirius says:

    Fuck the memos, Mr. Dick. Let’s see the video on these oh-so-successful interrogations. Let the American people see first hand how you were defending us from scourges like morality and the rule of law.

    And then head as fast as you can for that undisclosed location, before a pitchfork finds your criminal ass.

  22. 22
    Tonal Crow says:

    Much as I loathe Cheney, I think you’re overdrawing this. Obama could have declassified and released additional memos, even if they weren’t sought under FOIA.

  23. 23
    El Tiburon says:

    Otherwise, explain to me how Cheney keeps getting away with this sort of stuff?

    I don’t even know where to begin with this one. I are speechless. Words have no meaning right now.

    Is it me?

  24. 24
    Tonal Crow says:

    @Anton Sirius:

    Fuck the memos, Mr. Dick. Let’s see the video on these oh-so-successful interrogations….

    Now you’re talkin’.

  25. 25
    Dulcie says:

    @scav: Belling the Cat?

  26. 26
    gbear says:

    @valdivia:

    Has anybody sat Chuck Todd down and had the ‘WTF?’ conversation? I wish someone would.

    & how anyone can look at the comments on any given Politico thread and then take their stories seriously, I don’t know. Politico has the most pathetic commenter pool ever.

  27. 27
    Dreggas says:

    In case it hasn’t been said, the jackass went on fox news that’s how he gets away with it.

    SATSQ

  28. 28
    joes527 says:

    This really drives me nuts.

    Cheney, the guy who invented a whole new way to classify stuff, decides that now that he looks bad, so we had better declassify some of the stuff that he had classified.

    What. A. Prick.

    That said, I agree with him. Declassify everything that doesn’t have a clear and current reason to be classified.

    The default for government papers should be declassified and the only way to get something classified is to provide a specific justification, not the other way around.

  29. 29
    scav says:

    more or less, only I refuse to be mean to cats. Given that our undisclosed location is apparently broken, we do need to mount a good apparent suicide-mission and attach some sort of device to the beast that might possibly drown out his yowls. Probably aren’t going to find any volunteers strong in the force among the pressers.

  30. 30
    Tonal Crow says:

    @gbear:

    Politico has the most pathetic commenter pool ever.

    I was going to argue that humanevents’s commenter pool was more pathetic, but then I browsed Politico’s comments again. Humanevents’s commenters are further right, but Politico’s are more pathetic.

  31. 31
    Nellcote says:

    Tweety just now…Do the Republicans really want to be know as the party of tax cuts and torture?

    That sums it up pretty well.

  32. 32
    stickler says:

    I think that Cheney actually believes what he said to Hannity. He’s been living (almost literally) in a bubble for the last eight years, and God only knows what his underlings at CIA or DOD or wherever were telling him. He intentionally “stovepiped” information … and now that I think of it, wasn’t he involved in the whole “Team B” disinformation in 1977-78? The man’s been involved with “alternative” forms of intelligence and data for a hell of a long time.

    The man believes what he believes, and I’d wager it has only a coincidental relationship with reality.

    Plus, he’s been acting irrationally for a long while, too, and people have speculated it’s because of the quadruple bypass (‘Pumphead syndrome’).

    Shorter: Cheney’s delusional.

  33. 33
    mainsailset says:

    Cheney is double downing here. If CIA has the ability to declassify (and they actually may not) they will choose not to and Cheney knows that so he can get away with asking all day knowing full well that they won’t which will preserve his fable that the torture foiled attacks.

    What will never be understandable is the continued and repeated torture beyond any obvious return of information. There’s only one explanation for that and it goes to the heart of why our values exclude torture…it’s when torture morphs into sadism.

  34. 34
    valdivia says:

    @gbear:

    I would love for someone to clue Todd in. He seemed to be good in the election, what happened to him?

    as for Politico I hate mentioning them but Allen just went out of his way today to make this a Cheney is great sort of story so i had to do it.

    So according to some republican on NPR SERE proves that torture is not harmful!

  35. 35
    TenguPhule says:

    . Otherwise, explain to me how Cheney keeps getting away with this sort of stuff?

    Americans have lost the willpower to tar and feather lying bastards.

  36. 36
    TenguPhule says:

    Fuck the memos, Mr. Dick. Let’s see the video on these oh-so-successful interrogations.

    Apparently those had a little accident by way of the Whitehouse e-mails.

    Tapes destroyed, oopsie! No lookie for you.

    After pissing on Cheney’s grave, I plan on linedancing on it.

  37. 37
    demkat620 says:

    @valdivia: Chuck Todd can’t put down the horserace coverage.

    And Cheney gets away with it because as Chris Matthews just informed me he is th doyen of the Democratic party. So there you go.

  38. 38
    JenJen says:

    Via Greg Sargent’s blog, just updated:

    National Archives spokesperson Susan Cooper confirms that Cheney did submit a request for unspecified documents on March 31st. Cooper said that the National Archives had asked the relevant agency — she wouldn’t say which one, but there’s little reason to doubt that it’s the CIA — for the relevant documents this morning.

    Cooper confirmed that the docs Cheney asked for were in fact classified. Keep in mind we have no way of knowing what Cheney actually asked for. It’s now up to the CIA to make the determination whether to declassify the docs Cheney wants. So this could get very, very interesting in various ways.

  39. 39
    Bill H says:

    I formally asked that they be declassified now. I haven’t announced this up until now, I haven’t talked about it, but I know specifically of reports that I read, that I saw that lay out what we learned through the interrogation process and what the consequences were for the country.

    Nobody wants to hang Cheney by the nuts more than I do, but I think there may be a typo/misquote here. The first sentence does not make sense in light of the second sentence. The first would make much more sense in context if he said,

    “I formally ask that they be declassified now.”

    The difference in meaning is huge, but it would not be all that easy to discern in audio. I don’t say that such is the case, but to say that he did ask and then that he hasn’t announced until now is kind of wierd. Yeah, I know, I know, Cheney…

    (What’s with it taking the “p” tags out of the block quotes?)

  40. 40
    Dr. BDH says:

    Really, this is simple: one side of Dick Cheney’s mouth was moving, ergo he was lying.

  41. 41
    valdivia says:

    the interesting part is why he asked in MARCH that these things be given to him? Ahead of any decision re the memos? Smells fishy to me.

  42. 42
    sparky says:

    two things. first i guess i was a bit too much ahead of the curve with my post in the other thread about Cheney. oh well, i’ll just cut and paste myself. wheeee!

    They don’t exist, and therefore they can never be disclosed! (And of course, we can’t tell you that they don’t exist, either.) Perfect. Say what you will about Cheney it’s hard not to give the guy credit for being a true evil genius.

    second, anyone remember somebody named Valerie Plame? remember what Cheney/Libby said then? if the deciderer or evil in chief want to declassify something they can. selectively–the whole point was to declassify stuff so as to discredit Plame and Wilson. thus, if there was something here to look at — in other words something that would have actually supported Cheney’s position–it would have been released in say, oh, 2006.

    there’s nothing. this is just more misdirection. never ceases to amaze me how people fall for it over and over and over again. but then Cheney sure did learn from Nixon’s mistakes.

  43. 43
    Nellcote says:

    It would be sort of amusing if Cheney’s documents got shredded in the big shred-a-thon that happened in late ’08.

  44. 44
    JL says:

    Josh Marshall has a blog post up about Cheney being respected for his intellect and character before becoming VP. I’ve heard this also from a close friend who knew him then.
    It’s possible that due to his major heart problems, he changed. His core beliefs have not changed though

    In fact, Cheney’s views on executive supremacy — like many of his core beliefs about foreign policy and defense — have held remarkably steady over the years. What changed was his power to promote them.

    In the Ford administration, Cheney backed largely losing arguments on executive authority, resisting the limits set by Congress after the Watergate scandal and the Church Committee’s revelations of CIA abuse.

    This is from an old Washington Post article.

  45. 45
    dbrown says:

    Cheney is a shit eating asswipe low life animal. He can not demand that the CIA release secret memo’s – he is a private citizen and can not demand that any government agency do anything for him that isn’t done for Joe Blow.

  46. 46
    The Cat Who Would Be Tunch says:

    I still don’t see what relevance the “success” of these “enhanced interrogation techniques” have to do with vindicating their use.

    Has the debate really shifted from “torture is bad, regardless of the intention or outcome” to “torture is OK as long as we get good results”? Ugh.

  47. 47
    JL says:

    @JL: Try again, here’s the link for the article that I cited.

  48. 48

    @demkat620:…”Chris Matthews just informed me that he is the doyen of the Democratic party.”

    Let me get this straight…Chris Matthews is the doyen of the Democratic party? Or Cheney is?
    Are you sure it’s the Democratic party?
    Just asking.

  49. 49
    The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge says:

    I think this is a very good measure of the psychological disconnect between Them™ and Us™ nowadays. WE think that the more of this shit that comes out, the more people will be disgusted by it and turn on the assholes who carried it out. THEY think that as more and more graphic accounts of all the shit they did gets before the public, they will be cheered as the heroes who kept us safe from terra. We’ll see who’s right.

    I also understand the disappointment among my fellow dirty fucking commie hippies that Obama didn’t immediately start prosecuting everyone in the previous administration for War Crimes, but really, that’s not the way it’s done in this country. Not to mention that the next Republican administration (Ptui, Ptui! Spitting between my fingers onto the ground) will turn around and do exactly the same thing.

    Now admittedly the “more rope to hang themselves” mantra I’ve been chanting to myself for the last 8 years didn’t work out so well, but this time they are actually yelling: “More rope!” I think that’s part of Obama’s strategy: to let them proudly reveal what assholes they are, particularly as they feel more and more safe as time passes, and allow the American people to get angry on their own.

    Also, this is an 8-year strategy. Think about it. If the political climate in this country changes so dramatically by 2012 that Obama isn’t reelected, then War Crimes tribunals aren’t happening, either. On the other hand, a president who helped (sort of) mitigate the second Great Depression, rolled up our two wars with some sort of honor, and reformed health care (and gave people a couple of years to see that the US didn’t turn into North Korea as a result) is going to have a hell of a lot more political capital to expend than the people who have been bragging to all and sundry about the crimes they committed and got away with.

    We’ll see how it all works out. If Obama can be perceived as acquiescing in the righteous anger of the American people to bring the miscreants to justice rather than as someone coming into office slavering to punish his predecessors, I think it will be politically feasible to do something about it. Otherwise not. And if things don’t go so well economically or politically: well, people will argue that this administration just had too many too large problems to deal with. If any kind of failure is also associated with a “partisan” push to punish Bushco, however, I think it could damage the Democratic brand for some time to come.

  50. 50
    The Cat Who Would Be Tunch says:

    How Does He Get Away With It?

    As for the title of the post, methinks that’s a rhetorical question.

    I still remember this interview (can’t find it now, but I’ll see if I can find it later) of Cheney where the interviewer asked about his statement declaring the danger from Iraq was imminent in the runup to the war. Cheney replied “No, I never said.” with his best poker face, which left the interviewer flabbergasted and not knowing how to proceed. The stupidest thing was that for a news network that uses video as it’s primary medium to deliver information, they didn’t have the video ready to roll showing Cheney making that very statement. Thus, the interviewer was caught off guard where it almost seemed as if she was the person who had her facts wrong or was lying instead of Cheney.

    It’s truly ridiculous that comedy shows have better mastery of consumer grade tech (TDS and TCR literally use off-the-shelf DVRs – something like 8-10) than a news show.

  51. 51
    MikeJ says:

    Not to mention that the next Republican administration (Ptui, Ptui! Spitting between my fingers onto the ground) will turn around and do exactly the same thing.

    If Dems are torturing people, I want to have them prosecuted too. The difference is, the Republicans are going to prosecute Dems no matter what happens. Not prosecuting Republicans who torture people in hopes that they won’t prosecute dems who haven’t broken any law is a chump’s game.

  52. 52
    Ash says:

    I still don’t see what relevance the “success” of these “enhanced interrogation techniques” have to do with vindicating their use.

    Because they work, therefore they’re good! Just like I’m sure cutting of some dudes testicles would get him to say mercy as well. You silly thing, oh, you thought the fact that IT WAS ACTUAL TORTURE actually matters? Awwww, that’s so cute.

    :|

  53. 53
    Cat Lady says:

    Dick “dick” Cheney is a sick twisted fuck. I think we can all stipulate to that.

    I like watching the tall skinny black guy at work. He’s pretty good. It seems like he knows what he’s doing.

  54. 54

    And couldn’t he have declassified all this stuff just a few months ago?

    Too busy shredding documents.

    Someone (sorry, can’t remember who) suggested Cthcheny keeps standing in front of the cameras so he can claim he’s being unjustly persecuted when he’s hauled off to jail.

    That’s the only logical explanation I’ve heard for this pile of toad crap to keep running his face. Jesus Christ at a squaredance, he’s being outclassed by George Frickin’ Bush.

  55. 55
    The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge says:

    @MikeJ:

    Oh, I agree. I just failed to express myself properly. Of course any incoming Republican administration will want to prosecute the outgoing Democratic administration for the crime of stealing their White House.

    It’s just that there’s no precedent in American history for actually doing it. No point in giving them one. As I say, I think Obama is playing the long con.

  56. 56
    aimai says:

    Perhaps someone said it up above but the “he asked the national archives” line is *itself* a lie. He specifically said he made the request to the CIA–the appropriate agency. As a commenter elsewhere pointed out he has other outstanding requests on file at the NA for his book. But since the NA don’t have the docs he’s requesting why would he ask them for it. I take it that this was just more bloviating fakery that he and his office simply never thought he’d be called on. Please, please, please let the Obama people take him up on it and declassify everything and let the fucking chips fall where they may. Call it “presidential courtesy”.

    aimai

  57. 57
    schrodinger's cat says:

    At this point why does any one believe anything that Cheney has to say? Also, why is he on my TV instead of the bunker he spent
    the last 8 years.

  58. 58
    Dennis-SGMM says:

    Not sure if she’s lying but, I just heard Jane Harman being interviewed on NPR. She would not answer direct questions as to whether or not the conversations quoted in the news. Her response was along the lines of “Did that conversation take place?”
    She says that she wants the transcripts released. It will be interesting to see if they are and what her response is then.

  59. 59
    db says:

    Does anybody know what the precedence is for previous top administration officials (i.e., former Prez or VP) to criticize current administration officials?

    Maybe I am living in lala land; but I thought it was always deference and respect to the current administration.

    If I am wrong could somebody please fix me straight with anecdotes or data?

  60. 60
    Dennis-SGMM says:

    @db:
    IIRC, the outrage machine went into full song when Al Gore offered a mild criticism of Bush energy policies in 2003.

  61. 61
    Tonal Crow says:

    @Ash: I don’t recall whether any Nuremberg defendant argued that he ought to escape penalty because his torture produced “actionable intelligence”. Perhaps the Nazi “doctors” tried there should have hired Cheney as counsel.

  62. 62
    Tonal Crow says:

    @jake 4 that 1:

    Cthcheny…

    Nice one. He forced us to trudge the Mountains of Madness once, and I can see that he’s really aching for another tour.

  63. 63
    SpotWeld says:

    How does he get away with this:

    Possible answer:

    1) Obama is president and any “news” outlet that can deliver juicy rumors about him will get a ratings boost (i.e. Drudge rules thier world.)

    2) The hard right wing (Rove, and Cheney especially) are activly attempting to pave the path for a GOP return by sowing the seeds of disparagement how, so they are putting tons of money and effort into gathering up anything that even might be something on Obama.

    3) A outlet that can show itself to be a non-skeptical conduit for sound bites now can get to the top of the list for anything really juicy later on. (or not, but maybe if their nice the Republicans won’t beat them when they’re angry next time.. really officer, they don’t mean to be bad…)

    So in short, be a balthering idiot for the GOP now and you get a chance to be a really popular (with viewers) bathering idiot for the GOP later.

  64. 64
    Comrade Stuck says:

    Dick Cheney is rhetorically self immolating himself on the national stage to prepare for his future. The last hurrah before his tiny mechanical heart gives out and the eternal barbecue begins.

  65. 65
    valdivia says:

    @ aimai–good you mention the book. If he was asking for documents in March they may have *nothing* to do with this issue and he is simply using a run of the mill request to cover his ass.

  66. 66
    Jamey says:

    It DOESN’T MATTER WHETHER WATERBOARDING WORKS. Torture is recognized to be a crime by virtually every civilized society.

  67. 67
    kay says:

    I think it’s weird as hell that the Vice President seems unable to turn over power peacefully.

    He’s done. We don’t need daily foreign policy briefings from the shadow President, Dick Cheney.

    There are no limits with this person. He vastly overstepped his role when he was actually the VP, and he’s now weighing in weekly on every national security and foreign policy decision Obama makes. It’s incredible. He will not go away.

  68. 68
    demkat620 says:

    @Thadeus Horne: No Matthews said Cheney is the doyen of the Democratic Party.

  69. 69
    TenguPhule says:

    One of the things that I find a little bit disturbing about this recent disclosure is they put out the legal memos, the memos that the CIA got from the Office of Legal Counsel, but they didn’t put out the memos that showed the success of the effort. And there are reports that show specifically what we gained as a result of this activity.

    The only thing Cheney and his fellow torturers got from torture was off.

  70. 70
    Jay C says:

    Uh oh – maybe Darth Cheney is setting us all up for the Big Fall: maybe those secret documents he’s been so cagey about having declassified are going to show that torture actually does work! They’re going to have details about how Evil Terrorist Abu Zabu only had to be waterboarded 2532 times in a week before he finally gave up the location of the ticking nuclear bomb – in a locker at Grand Central Station; which had to be disarmed by a dashing federal Agent, who did it with only seconds to spare before it would have gone off and vaporized the Macy’s Thanksgiving Day Parade!

    Hah! Then won’t all we moonbat libs look foolish….

  71. 71
    pattonbt says:

    So Cheney wants the release of the ‘evidence’ that torture worked? Given the evidence that he (made sure he) got for the Iraq WMD argument, methinks his ‘evidence’ lacks something called credibility.

    Im quite sure he got the ‘evidence’ he wanted – because he made sure that is what was provided. When the first torture session came back and Torturer A said ‘Nope, this guy’s got nothing’. Cheney came back and said ‘Wrong answer, Torturer A. I know he has something. Now get it out of him’.

    Im sure if my balls were being crushed repeatedly, I would make up untold thousands of ‘terrorist plots’ just to get the torture to stop.

    And just to harumph what has been said above, results of torture sessions are irrelevant here. This is not an ‘ends justify the means’ thing.

  72. 72
    Mike in NC says:

    That’s the only logical explanation I’ve heard for this pile of toad crap to keep running his face. Jesus Christ at a squaredance, he’s being outclassed by George Frickin’ Bush.

    Just remember who was working for who in that relationship.

  73. 73
    Corner Stone says:

    @Jay C:

    gave up the location of the ticking nuclear bomb – in a locker at Grand Central Station; which had to be disarmed by a dashing federal Agent, who did it with only seconds to spare before it would have gone off and vaporized the Macy’s Thanksgiving Day Parade!

    I’m scared to death that if some piece of this snark were true an overwhelming number of our fellow lizard brain citizens would say something along the lines of, “Well hell! Looks like they’uns got what theys deserved! Torture all them brownies if it keeps me and me’uns safe Daddy!”

  74. 74
    Corner Stone says:

    @Zifnab:

    And his party is fighting for approval ratings that rival Hugo Chavez and the clap.

    I’d prefer the clap please. At least you can get rid of that shit.

  75. 75
    wb says:

    The fact is… it’s completely. irrelevant. if they got anything from these interrogations. It is STILL against the law. Period. There is no “ends justify the means” clause.

    Yes. Exactly. This is all that needs to be said.

    8 x 10’s with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one will not change it.

    It was and is against the law. Full stop.

  76. 76

    Yes. Exactly. This is all that needs to be said.

    8×10’s with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one will not change it.

    It was and is against the law. Full stop.

    No, that isn’t all that needs to be said. It should be all that needs to be said, but it isn’t. If you want convictions, another of the necessary but not sufficient conditions is that you can show that it was useless. It won’t even be enough for the other side to fail to show evidence that it was. As sorry as it sounds, that is something that the prosecution is going to have to positively prove. I don’t like it, but so long as it’s an open question, there is going to be someone on the jury who won’t vote to convict.

  77. 77
    someguy says:

    Hey, what the f*&^ is up with the Director of National Intelligence telling people that the Bush/Cheney torture regime produced important information? Sounds like we have the first candidate for “you’re doing a heck of a job, Brownie.”

  78. 78

    […] meanwhile, are debating whether Cheney actually called for the release of memos or if it was all a dirty Cheneyite trick! Also, whether Obama is actually in charge of his administration and means anything he says or […]

  79. 79
    Lesley says:

    I recall photos taken of shredding trucks outside Cheney’s office. How about unshredding and disclosing those “memos”?

    In any case, we should be smart enough by now to realize that when Cheney says torture worked what he means is it gave him the thrill he was seeking.

  80. 80

    […] John Cole points out other areas of potential dishonesty in Cheney’s statements on the subject. […]

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