First They Came For The RINO’s

Allahpundit responds to Rush telling them all to STFU about Jindal’s hideous performance:

Sounds like Ace and I are now Republican personas non grata. As are an awful lot of commenters in last night’s megathread, I might add.

That’s okay. One of these days Andy Levy and I are going to start a secular, hawkish, (mostly) libertarian third party. You’re all welcome to join.

No one could have predicted that would happen. Or maybe someone did:

And this is why Henke is so very right, and the purity police have it so wrong. The Republican party is a train wreck. These short term power struggles and attempts to “re-brand” the GOP are doomed to fail, even though they will be a source of endless entertainment for me. Elevating Cantor and Pence means more of the same from the Republicans.

What the GOP needs to do is cool their heels. The frenetic nonsense of the last few years has gotten them nowhere, and talking about principles is pointless when you have none. The party of limited government talks a good game, but owns the $500 billion dollar deficit this year and $5 trillion in debt from the past two administrations. You don’t get to pretend you are the party of limited government when your crowning achievement of the last eight years is the Schiavo legislation. I suspect the only principles they honestly have left are the ones they know are so repellent to the public at large that they refuse to voice them. Every now and then they act on them, and the public swats them on the nose. See Frost, Graeme.

If they were smart, they would regroup, and decide what they stand for and present it to the American people. Instead, I suspect we will get several more months of infighting over tactics and appearances, and more purges of those who wish to engage in a debate over the party’s direction. It isn’t just that many of the folks leading the purge disagree with George Will and Peggy Noonan and Daniel Larison and Sullivan and Ron Paul about the direction of the future GOP- they want them destroyed for suggesting there needs to be a debate. That is how dead the party is, and Henke is right. They need some time in the wilderness, to figure out who they are and what they believe in and why and how it will be better for the country.

Instead, I suspect we will see Palin pom poms and purity purges, which is all the more humorous given the defections from prominent conservatives to Obama, they are already whittled down to the true belivers. It would be funny if our nation’s currrent two-party system did not require a competent opposition party.

Whoever wrote that was pretty smart. At any rate, while Allah and company were not “outcast” for debating policy, but for stating the obvious about Jindal’s stink bomb, the point remains the same. Something to think about in between rounds of the favorite chorus of old: “The GOP IS A BIG TENT PARTY, THE GOP IS A BIG TENT PARTY!”

And while the GOP has allegedly gotten the message about tactics v. strategy, it is probably worth noting that the purges aren’t over yet:

Pennsylvania Republican Committee Chairman Robert Gleason Jr. said in an interview today that the state party may not support Sen. Arlen Specter in the Republican primary next year — a day after his national counterpart suggested that GOP supporters of the economic stimulus bill could take a hit in upcoming elections.

The new party chairman hinted as much the other day in regards to all three of the “appeasers” who voted with the Democrats.

Cut deeper wingnuts! Keep cutting off the insufficiently faithful! Keep cutting till you get it down to the distilled essence of conservative! And when you finally kick all the unbelievers out and have the party whittled down to Joe the Plumber and Rush Limbaugh, be proud of yourself. You just helped kill a major American political party.

135 replies
  1. 1

    Republicans in Cali are shunning those members who voted for the budget.

    The bright side. Maybe if the Repubs run a third party candidate against Specter he can finally be retired.

  2. 2
    pharniel says:

    wow. ace and allah just got got booted by rush.
    ace vs. rush.
    whoever wins, we loose.

  3. 3
    sparky says:

    /raises hand in the back of the classroom
    ooohhh! me! teacher! me!
    can i be the first to point out the delicious irony of the so-called Burkeans devouring their own just as the committee of public safety did!
    please?

    ps: Burke was right!

    /rolls on floor laughing

    pps: D Brooks is an execrable syncophant for the oligarchy, but he most assuredly read Reflections on the Revolution in France. Given the time alloted by the editing function for reflection, i think this means his evasions are more reprehensible.

  4. 4
  5. 5
    Shygetz says:

    This is great news…for John McCain!

  6. 6
    Faux News says:

    This is great news for Palin, Jindal and the GOP! Let’s see, you’ve just got your asses kicked in the last two elections and are now the permanent minority. The solution? Wind the cocoon tighter! This is simply FULL of win!

  7. 7
    kay says:

    I’m warming up to Jindal. He doesn’t belong in that party. I’ve watched him interviewed: he’s cerebral. That’s not the GOP brand. They like "heart", all that gut-reaction determinative pronouncement stuff. He’s also not overtly physical, and that’s a requirement in the GOP. He walks like a marionette, and he doesn’t know what to do with his hands. He’s all head.
    He’s doomed with them. He should switch sides.

  8. 8
    Zifnab says:

    That’s okay. One of these days Andy Levy and I are going to start a secular, hawkish, (mostly) libertarian third party.

    And it will have blackjack. And hookers.

    /bender

    Alternately, "Bwhahaha! Go right ahead and throw your vote away!"

    /Kodos

  9. 9

    […] John Cole over at Balloon Juice is seeing the same implosion of the GOP. It is sad to see Reagan’s great vision destroyed by […]

  10. 10
    Zifnab says:

    I’m warming up to Jindal. He doesn’t belong in that party. I’ve watched him interviewed: he’s cerebral. That’s not the GOP brand. They like "heart", all that gut-reaction determinative pronouncement stuff. He’s also not overtly physical, and that’s a requirement in the GOP. He walks like a marionette, and he doesn’t know what to do with his hands. He’s all head.

    And don’t forget. He’s not part of an established political family. He’s not nearly rich enough. And he’s certainly not white. He REALLY doesn’t belong in the GOP. But he’s from Louisiana. Their politics is kinda crazy.

  11. 11
    Josh Hueco says:

    @sparky:

    can i be the first to point out the delicious irony of the so-called Burkeans devouring their own just as the committee of public safety did!

    LOL…That put the sugar in my coffee this morning.

  12. 12
    Dave says:

    What I find so ironic is that not even 15 years ago, it was the Democrats that found themselves on death’s door. Why the Republicans wouldn’t look to that example as a template for renewal…well I know why they won’t, but that just proves their idiocy.
     
    And do they realize that if they primary out Specter that they’ll get hammered in the general? Do they even understand the shift in voting patterns in PA?

  13. 13
    Lee says:

    Would it be rude to point out the similarities between the Republicans and Stalin?

  14. 14
    Karen S. says:

    Ah, they’ll never learn. I just read that Joe the so-called Plumber is scheduled to advise young repubs at CPAC. It’s hard to take seriously anyone who would view that joker as some sort of sage. So another generation of the GOP, precisely similar in its intransigence, anger and narcissism to the one currently throwing public hissy fits, is waiting in the wings. (sigh)

  15. 15
    sgwhiteinfla says:

    If Harry Reid had any sense he would be recruiting Specter to switch sides. Now I know Specter is a long time Republican but his policy beliefs no longer belong in that party. He is pro life and supports civil unions. By crossing the aisle Specter will effectively ensure no primary challenge and he will be running for reelection in a state that Obama carried. And by crossing the aisle he would get the chance to be a bigger voice on committees. Hell maybe even the chairman of a subcomittee. Bigger than that he would give us a super majority whenever Franken finally gets seated. I am not the biggest Specter fan in the world but to me this should be a no brainer for both sides. Why should he continue to pledge allegiance to a party that he doesn’t agree with and that is gunning for him next year? I would love to entertain a discussion about why this wouldn’t be a good thing but if nobody can come up with any reasons I think Harry Reid should be fired if he doesn’t at least broach the subject with Specter.

    Of course I think Reid should be fired regardless.

  16. 16
    camchuck says:

    GOP-eating-their-own watch, via Steve Benen:

    Real Clear Politics chatted with South Carolina Gov. Mark Sanford (R) yesterday, and asked the governor about the "view that perhaps Republicans are rooting for President Obama to fail." Given the notoriety of Rush Limbaugh announcing his hope that Obama fails, the RCP question was almost certainly in reference to the radio host’s infamous remarks.

    Lee Fang noted Sanford’s response:

    "I don’t want [Obama] to fail. Anybody who wants him to fail is an idiot, because it means we’re all in trouble."

  17. 17

    .
    The nonsense of a conservative: Where it comes from.
    .

  18. 18
    Napoleon says:

    @Dave:

    What I find so ironic is that not even 15 years ago, it was the Democrats that found themselves on death’s door.

    I know people said that, but it was never really true. Over the last 30 years at worst on the federal level, although at low tide in a minority in both houses they still had a substantial minority, much more then the Republicans now. At the state house level it was only in recent years that the GOP more or less pulled even, an now the GOP is loosing ground. The Dems were never in the shape the GOP is now, maybe because the Dems never became the political suicide cult that is the modern GOP.

  19. 19
    Wag says:

    There is a very simple solution to the GOP’s problem with Spector, Collins and Snow. Obama and Reid should openly invite the three of them to join the Democratic Caucus. The GOP can then nominate whatever far right wing christianista that they want, and the Dems would have a filibuster proof majority.

    I see this as a win-win scenario.

  20. 20
    Mazacote Yorquest says:

    "That’s okay. One of these days Andy Levy and I are going to start a secular, hawkish, (mostly) libertarian third party."

    You can almost smell the Funions at the Gas ‘n Sip, can’t you?

  21. 21
    John says:

    Specter is basically a Republican when it counts, mostly. He’s pro-choice but votes for every right wing justice any Republican nominates.

    The idea of punishing him for his stimulus vote is pure madness. The Republicans wanted the stimulus to pass. Their whole political strategy relies on the stimulus passing. If they had successfully blocked it, they would have gotten totally hammered, because they weren’t offering any kind of real alternative.

    This means that Specter defecting was actually necessary for the Republicans to get what they want – it’s only if the stimulus passes that they can tout their honorable votes against it and campaign against it, which is apparently their strategy.

    They seem to have become so confused that they’ve totally lost any kind of perspective. They’d rather give the seat to a Democrat than leave it with Specter, because Specter did something that was actually necessary for the party’s basic plans

  22. 22
    TR says:

    Would it be rude to point out the similarities between the Republicans and Stalin?

    It’d be rude to Stalin. Say what you will about the Iron Man, but at least he had accomplishments, like beating back the Nazis in the Eastern Front of the Second World War and effectively crushing his domestic opponents like bugs in the Purge.

    These asshats haven’t managed to do a damn thing but lose election after election. Boehner’s biggest accomplishment seems to be capturing the orange glow of an Oompa Loompa with his pathetic fake tan.

  23. 23
    NonyNony says:

    @sgwhiteinfla:

    Why should he continue to pledge allegiance to a party that he doesn’t agree with and that is gunning for him next year?

    I think it depends on whether Specter really thinks that the party is going to be gunning for him next year or not. If he thinks the party itself is after him, he might consider switching. OTOH, if he thinks the party apparatus is in his corner but the nutcases are out to get him, his incentive to switch parties isn’t all that great.

    Because really, it’s not like the Dems could promise not to let anyone primary against him if he were running as a Democrat. He’d be challenged by people who want that seat. And given the demographics of Pennsylvania, it’s not a lock that Specter would be a sure thing to win a Democratic primary these days.

    So as long as his buddies in the party still have lunch with him, he’ll probably not jump ship. But if they start giving him wedgies and stuffing him in trashcans, he’ll have a lot of incentive to join the other side whether he thinks he can win in a primary on that ticket or not.

  24. 24
    Josh Hueco says:

    @Dave:

    What I find so ironic is that not even 15 years ago, it was the Democrats that found themselves on death’s door.

    The difference is that when Democrats realized they’d become essentially an urban and coastal party, they said, "Oh, no" and did the necessary work to become national party again. Republicans, having become the party of the Confederacy and Greater Mormonia, have reacted with, "Hell yeah!"

  25. 25
    Egilsson says:

    15 years ago? when Clinton was president? And a great and very popular president at that?

  26. 26
    Bobby Thomson says:

    Re: Specter – Don’t kid yourself. This is all kabuki to bolster Snarlin’ Arlen’s "moderate" cred in 2010, not a replay of Charles Percy’s defeat in 1984 when Illinois Republicans crossed over to elect Paul Simon and send a message (though I’d be happy to be proven wrong). (For one thing, in 1984 the Republicans had 55 seats and could afford to spot the Democrats one to prove a point.) Despite all that has happened in the country and in Pennsylvania, Specter has SEIU and other union support locked in and would be virtually impossible to beat in the general election.

    The best target for Pennsylvania Democrats in the next cycle is Jim Gerlach, who consistently skates despite representing a classic swing district.

  27. 27
    blogenfreude says:

    You’ve got to hand it to George W. Bush – he wrecked an oil company, a baseball team, two or three countries, hundreds of thousands of lives, and now he’s done in a major political party. And he’s only in his mid-sixties! What, one wonders, will he fuck up next?

  28. 28
    Dave says:

    @Egilsson:
     
    Yes, that would be the time. Because Clinton did jack-shit to build the national party and the Democrats were getting hammered at every level below the White House.

  29. 29
    cleek says:

    What I find so ironic is that not even 15 years ago, it was the Democrats that found themselves on death’s door

    15 years? try 5 years.

    the Dems were in utter disarray in 2004. there was a real feeling that the GOP’s position as tough-talking, take-no-prisoners, terrorist-punishers was rock-solid as long as there were terrorists out there – and nobody thought the threat was going to go away. the country was in a "put a boot in your ass" mood, and the Dems couldn’t decide if they wanted to jump on-board Bush’s TerrorTrain or stand on the platform weeping into their handkerchiefs as it pulled away.

  30. 30
    TheFountainHead says:

    Shorter Rush: All ur Republikans are belong to us!

    Shorter Ace & Allah: I’m in ur base, pwnin ur n00bs!

  31. 31
    Betsy says:

    I’m no doubt not the first person to make this observation (hell, it’s probably been made more than once at this blog). But one of the most striking signs of the Republican party/conservative movement’s decline is that they not only used Joe the Dumber as a symbol, a flag to wave (both parties have always done that), they then made him a leader/spokesman of the movement. I think that in the past, they would have at least been savvy enough not to believe their own bullshit. They would not have taken some doofus who asked an obnoxious question on the campaign trail and hired him to be a figurehead.
    ETA: Not only a figurehead, but a talking head. He’s supposed to be one of their thinkers. That’s both terrifying and ridiculous.

  32. 32
    JD Rhoades says:

    That’s okay. One of these days Andy Levy and I are going to start a secular, hawkish, (mostly) libertarian third party. You’re all welcome to join.

    Actually, I wouldn’t mind someone doing that, so long as they actually believed in something besides doing whatever it takes to get or keep power. I actually don’t mind one bit if we’re opposed by a party who has principles that they’re willing to debate honestly.

  33. 33

    So, Republicans finally figure out what a bunch of shitheads they are camping with when their buddies turn on them.

    Well, we’ve known for years. So, excuse us while we get the popcorn and soda ready for the GOP made-for-tv-and-talk-radio train wreck.

    Couldn’t happen to a nastier, stupider bunch of people.

    15 years ago, it was the Democrats that found themselves on death’s door.

    Hardly. Dems had the white house, and would win it again in two years. They also "won" (that is, got the most votes) in the 2000 presidential election, and probably would have won in 2004 if not for 911.

  34. 34
    cleek says:

    meh.

    they’ll be back.

  35. 35
    Mazacote Yorquest says:

    Who is Joe the Plumber anyway? I don’t have time to read his wiki entry let alone his books. Why do conservatives love him so much? Did he courageously oppose something important? Did Luna or Rush ever do any songs about his philosophy? How is he connected with Oakeshott and Hayek (I don’t know who they are either) and Milton Friedman and Ayn Rand and Leo Strauss?

  36. 36
    John Cole says:

    There is some serious revisionism going on here about the not so distant past and the Democratic party. Just a few years ago, the Democratic party was just as petty and just as silly as many of the GOP bloggers are today. I remember going rounds with Democratic bloggers about pressing and important issues such as “Does George Bush attend enough funerals of soldiers?”

    Now, in retrospect, I certainly agree that the Democrats were right on the major issues of the day- namely Iraq and the tax cuts, but powerless and out of control, marginalized and ignored, relegated to the coastal regions and major population centers and still fighting the 2000 election, they were reeling from one silly issue to another in paroxysms of anger.

    What saved the Democrats, IMHO, is the Dean strategy, the overall incompetence of the Bush administration, the economic crash, the failure of the war, and the energy and collective organization of the netroots to field and support better candidates. I don’t see any similar strategy for the Republicans, especially considering Steele’s efforts to date are to announce he plans to make the GOP hipper and to whittle the GOP caucus down to only the true believers, I don’t think it is possible for the Obama team to be as incompetent as Bush, the economy is already in the shitter, the war is winding down, and the GOP nutroots is running around flashing their erections about Sarah Palin and going to Joe the Plumber autograph signings.

  37. 37

    When Allah and Ace aren’t pure enough for the true believers they are cutting bone deep. Looks like all the chatter about a Republican civil war may not be quite as far fetched as I thought. If the R’s really are the party of Rush Limbaugh they are in deeper shit than I previously imagined.

    Rush is going off the deep end and he’s taking a chunk of the party with him. I have actually been wondering (with absolutely no evidence) if Rush is back on the drugs again. These bizarre and irrational outbursts make me very suspicious. He’s always been an asshole, he’s just never been this out-of-touch with so many hard core righties before,has he?

  38. 38
    Comrade Dread says:

    It used to be a point of pride to be kicked out of the Republicans, a sign that you were a conservative or a libertarian who wasn’t completely batshit crazy.

    Now they’re doing it to everyone.

  39. 39
    Xanthippas says:

    It is amusing to see the bickering and infighting, as these conservative Republicans are about as vicious with each other as they are with Mexican immigrants and Islamic terrorists. Still, this is a good thing for their party. The only question I have is, how long can this go on? Nate Silver correctly identified the core problem with this party, which is that as their base has grown narrower so has it also grown more hysterical, so that the clearer it becomes that they need reform, the harder it is to achieve it. Could that cycle really cause them to do worse in 2010 than they did in 2008, or will the Republicans fare about as well as the opposition party usually does in midterms?

  40. 40
    Napoleon says:

    @John Cole:

    Yeah, but were the actual office holders acting as stupidly.

    PS, and in the non-office holder catagory there is no-one remotely like a Tony Perkins or Rush Limbaugh. Dem blogger crazyness is not remotely analogous to Rush.

  41. 41

    […] John Cole said.  No excerpts, just read the whole thing.  Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Cast Out of Washington, Republicans […]

  42. 42
    kay says:

    @Zifnab:

    Jindal’s conservative, sure, but so are a lot of southern Democrats. Maybe he’s just mouthing the talking points because he’s ambitious and he threw his lot in with the R’s. One or another pundit said Jindal has nuanced and thought-out views on reforming health care. I could see he and Obama having a discussion.
    It’s not race or ethnicity: Steele (to me) typifies the Republican brand. Jindal just doesn’t fit on that side.

  43. 43
    Dave says:

    @ThymeZoneThePlumber:
     
    I’ll just say again that equating ownership of the White House with party health is not valid. From 1994 through 2004 the Democratic party couldn’t find their ass with both hands. It took a lot of work and willingness to challenge themselves to find a new, coherent message that worked. The point being that they actually did just that; they worked at it.
     
    The GOP, in contrast, is embracing superficiality. Joe the Plumber and hip-hop messaging just reinforces the fact that the GOP believes their message is solid when it isn’t. And since the Republican Party is a top-down power structure (even their embrace of Twitter reinforces that), the chances they will reform their party are practically nil.

  44. 44
    jibeaux says:

    @cleek:

    Well, *I* wanted her to shut up.

    NPR once featured a point of view type story from another officer regarding Cindy Sheehan, he was sort of there to provide the "con" point of view, to I don’t know, her, I guess. It was really masterfully done, heavy on the condolence and the regret for the death of her son, made the point about how she and her son came from different places ideologically and how soldiers approach the ideas of service, sacrifice, and death somewhat differently, and gently made the point that possibly the public spectacles would not be what he would have wanted her to do after his death. It was interesting, and a good point. I don’t know what Casey Sheehan would have wanted, of course.

  45. 45
    Comrade Stuck says:

    I look at conservatism more as a personal blueprint for livings ones day to day life. I wonder if the problems of the republican party emanates ultimately from the notion that this personal choice can be institutionalized in a political party for the purpose of being implemented on a national scale for governance. Attempting to do such a thing fly’s in the face of practicality in a country whose founding document was formed toward creating a liberal democracy. That doesn’t mean that rugged individualism, personal responsibility and the other tenants of the so called conservative movement should not be suggested as noble goals for every American, but to force fealty to this by public policy has proven to be a disaster, IE Katrina, Fema and other failed bush management of agencies designed to do things people cannot do for themselves. It is ironic to me, the fact that in many ways as a person who lives their life conservatively on a personal level, approaching minimalism in some respects, is a pretty liberal politicital person on issues of national policy, especially socially and economically.

    IMHO> When the GOP realizes this and conservatives begin to accept a role of competent government that can service the country in a positive way, then they can become a party that may be capable of governing this liberal democracy. What that means is developing ideas that may be a kind of conservative philosophy that is frugal in it’s approach but meets the threshold of supporting a government that does stuff people can’t do for themselves. Call it liberal conservatism, though Malkin would not doubt be not impressed with such RIONism heresy. To me it is the only thing that might work to restore the viability of the GOP. I doubt it will happen any time soon though.

  46. 46
    Sarcastro says:

    "We fear God, we look up with awe to kings; with affection to parliaments; with duty to magistrates; with reverence to priests; and with respect to nobility. Why? Because when such ideas are brought before our minds, it is natural to be so affected"

    Yo, FUCK Edmund Burke.

    When Kings and nobility are brought before my mind I reach for my revolver.

  47. 47
    sgwhiteinfla says:

    Because really, it’s not like the Dems could promise not to let anyone primary against him if he were running as a Democrat. He’d be challenged by people who want that seat. And given the demographics of Pennsylvania, it’s not a lock that Specter would be a sure thing to win a Democratic primary these days.

    Its called a wink and a nod. First of all the DCCC supports incumbents so he would have their weight behind him. Second of all I would imagine that Harry Reid would promise his endoresment should he cross the aisle. Third if he is the 60th vote on several pieces of legislation you can bet your ass that President Obama would campaign for him in Pennsylvania. I know there are Dems gunning for the primary but I am pretty sure they could be disuaded from giving it their all if we could pick up that supermajority in the Senate. Im just sayin

  48. 48
    NonyNony says:

    @John Cole:

    Just a few years ago, the Democratic party was just as petty and just as silly as many of the GOP bloggers are today.

    John, with all due respect, you’re mixing up the Democratic Party with Democratic bloggers and the GOP with GOP bloggers.

    The Democratic Party was never in as dire straights as the GOP is today – even at their darkest they’ve never been shut out of the South or the West entirely. The GOP is now shut out of the Northeast to a level that the Dems have never reached.

    Were there shrill Democratic bloggers? Yup. Did the Democratic Party make a comeback by finding the shrillest, most partisan and most reality-detached voices on the left and doing what they said? Um, no. In fact the Democratic Party is well known for ignoring their left flank as much as they can possibly get away with.

    For the analogy to the last few years to work, Nancy Pelosi would have had to have been on my teevee weekly attacking George Bush using liberal blog talking points. IME that didn’t happen – if you can point me at examples, I’d appreciate it. OTOH, Boehner, Cantor and the rest seem to be perfectly happy parroting whatever Limbaugh and the other Talk Radio Nutters decide are the appropriate talking points. (And the right-wing equivalent of the liberal bloggers are actually the Talk Radio Nutters, not the right-wing blogs. The right wing blogs are a marginal group of impotent ragaholics at best and potential Tim McVeigh’s waiting for a spark at their worst).

  49. 49
    Ned R. says:

    @Betsy:

    But one of the most striking signs of the Republican party/conservative movement’s decline is that they not only used Joe the Dumber as a symbol, a flag to wave (both parties have always done that), they then made him a leader/spokesman of the movement. I think that in the past, they would have at least been savvy enough not to believe their own bullshit. They would not have taken some doofus who asked an obnoxious question on the campaign trail and hired him to be a figurehead.

    Patrick Ruffini’s piece here seems very relevant. (And oh, some of the responses he’s gotten…)

  50. 50
    Incertus says:

    [Jindal’s] doomed with them. He should switch sides.

    No thanks. He’s a freak on abortion and creationism, and the latter just goes to prove that being a Rhodes Scholar doesn’t guarantee intellectual honesty. I mean, the guy tried to perform an exorcism in college. We’ve got enough freaks on our side.

  51. 51
    John Cole says:

    @NonyNony: A fair point. Regardless, I think we both agree with my conclusion, which is that the Republicans are in FAR, FAR worse shape.

  52. 52
    El Cid says:

    There is a clear incentive for the non-Southern, moderate to liberal Republicans of the Northeast, Midwest, and West to move beyond the 30+ year domination of the party by Southern hard rightists.

    It’s their choice. They can either notice and respond to that incentive, or they can keep voluntarily surrendering to a hard-right, regionalist movement who will continue to lose elections on the national scale.

    I hope that it takes a good long while for liberal and moderate non-Southern (and maybe someday, later, even Southern) Republicans to respond to the obvious incentive.

  53. 53
    jibeaux says:

    tenants

    I know it’s hopelessly pedantic and I promise I won’t do it again, but it’s "tenets." Thanks. Sorry. I know.

  54. 54
    gex says:

    OT, but Sully just loves government spending. Well, when he can personally benefit that is. Link

    C’mon Sully. You just know the private sector is where this belongs. And if all your fundamentalist, Republican captains of industry don’t see any reason to invest in HIV research, well then that’s just that. The market has decided. Go back to the socialized medicine of Britain if you want government to find a cure for YOUR disease.

    *Note, I personally am in favor of this kind of government funded research, though we have to put up with big pharma complain about their research costs even when it is paid for by the taxpayers.

  55. 55
    Joshua Norton says:

    "The GOP IS A BIG TENT PARTY, THE GOP IS A BIG TENT PARTY!"

    Only when they’re talking about Palin or blowing shit up. Then their tent gets REALLY big.

  56. 56
    Zifnab says:

    @kay: Steele is another fluke (or at least another indication that the GOP is sliding off its moorings). His chief competitor had to resign from a White’s Only Club just to run. And they were tied through six ballots.

    The fact that Steele and Jindal have become spokesmen for the Republican Party demonstrate that the GOP has completely gutted its own leadership and no longer have any idea of what works.

    @John Cole: I disagree. The Democrats were certainly weak and out of power, but they still had a leadership core. Kennedy, Kerry, Pelosi, Frank, Reid, Feinstien, Gore, Clinton, Clinton – these folks have been in power for decades.

    But look at the Republican counterparts. Where is Trent Lott? Where is Tom DeLay? Where is Newt Gingrich? Where are Dick Cheney and George Bush? What happened to Dick Army and Donald Rumsfeld and Alberto Gonzales?

    At the height of Democratic impotency – in 2002 and 2003 – we had Howard Dean stepping in to build a coalition. By 2004 we had Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, and Bill Richardson warming up on the bench. Can you honestly compare Barack Obama to any sitting Republican US Senator? Or Hillary Clinton for that matter? Could Palin or Jindal seriously hold a candle to Richardson or Kaine or Sebilius?

    I see some mirrors in the Democratic Party’s slump in ’02, but I also see some vast differences.

  57. 57
    Shygetz says:

    Just a few years ago, the Democratic party was just as petty and just as silly as many of the GOP bloggers are today. I remember going rounds with Democratic bloggers about pressing and important issues such as “Does George Bush attend enough funerals of soldiers?”…Now, in retrospect, I certainly agree that the Democrats were right on the major issues of the day- namely Iraq and the tax cuts, but powerless and out of control, marginalized and ignored, relegated to the coastal regions and major population centers and still fighting the 2000 election, they were reeling from one silly issue to another in paroxysms of anger.

    2004–Democrats were trying to catch attention with shiny minor issues while being RIGHT on the major ones, just ignored

    2009–Republicans are trying to catch attention with shiny minor issues while not only being WRONG about the major ones, but not even trying to address them.

    The 2004 Dems were being petty and silly because that was what worked; even though they were right and proven right on the major issues, the Repubs were still winning news cycles and public opinion with shiny distractions. So, the Dems went with shiny distractions of their own to try to fight back. But never forget, the Dems were right on the major issues BEFORE they went for the shiny distractions. The American public just didn’t care. Now, the Republicans are essentially ignoring the major issues of the day and just focusing on the shiny distractions.

    The difference is huge, and no revisionism is required.

  58. 58
    Faux News says:

    Say what you will about the Iron Man, but at least he had accomplishments, like beating back the Nazis in the Eastern Front of the Second World War and effectively crushing his domestic opponents like bugs in the Purge.

    Hell, at least Stalin had a plan something the GOP utterly lacks.

  59. 59
    Keith says:

    There’s rumblings about the NSRCC (or whatever the re-election committee is called) not supporting Jim Bunning for re-election, and that crazy dude is talking about *suing* them for not supporting him. It’s really comical to watch the destruction possible when you consider the willingness to compromise (and to a lesser extent, apologize) an inexcusable weakness.

  60. 60

    @John Cole:

    I remember going rounds with Democratic bloggers about pressing and important issues such as “Does George Bush attend enough funerals of soldiers?”

    That’s not really a fair comparison. That particular issue was not raised in a vacuum. Democrats were being accused of not supporting the troops and being unpatriotic at that time. When those kinds of scurrilous accusations are made how do you respond? You find examples of how those on the right (including Bush) do, in fact, not always "support the troops." I believed it was a very important issue because it addressed a larger problem: the administration and their butt boys in the blogosphere attempted to downplay the cost of the war both in terms of dollars and in terms of dead or broken bodies.

    Of course casualties have been light in terms of the big picture. But when that body bag comes home with your loved one it doesn’t feel very light. It’s crushing. Bush is a fucking coward and didn’t have the stones to attend one funeral. Ted Kennedy has attended the funeral of almost EVERY soldier from Massachusetts–a liberal scumbag per most of the wingnut crowd. As far as I am concerned it was then, and is now, an important point.

  61. 61
    smiley says:

    @blogenfreude:

    What, one wonders, will he fuck up next?

    I don’t know how he can fuck up a library but I’m looking forward to seeing just that.

  62. 62
    Cyrus says:

    And when you finally kick all the unbelievers out and have the party whittled down to Joe the Plumber and Rush Limbaugh, be proud of yourself.

    SAM WURZELBACHER.

    Or if he prefers formality, Samuel. Or, if he actually was called Joe by acquaintances before his TV appearance, sure, we can call him Joe Wurzelbacher. But either using his epithet or a parody of it just gives him too much credit.

    To put it in today’s political jargon, it buys into the other side’s frame. Whether you call him "the Plumber" (especially capitalized!) or "the Dumber," either way you remind people of his pseudo-populist, jes’ folks persona. You make the debate about that. And to put it in more general, timeless terms, just because they treat politics as a clown show doesn’t mean we can, let alone should.

    Never argue with an idiot. They’ll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. Unfortunately, idiots buy ad space and hold some Congressional seats, so we have to argue with them. But at the very least, we can resist getting pulled down to their level as much as possible.

  63. 63
    jibeaux says:

    Say what you will about the tenets of National Socialism, at least it’s an ethos.

    Ooh, I found a way a incorporate a spelling lesson, stay on topic, AND quote from the Big Lebowski. Word.

  64. 64
    Joshua Norton says:

    [Jindal’s] doomed with them. He should switch sides.

    Remember when they said the same thing about John McCain? Now we’re so glad he didn’t take that advice. Same with Jindal. He switches, we all lose.

  65. 65
    kay says:

    @Incertus:

    Oh, I don’t think we have NEARLY enough freaks on our side. Not enough for me!
    I accept pro-life Democrats, although I am not one. I have given this a lot of thought. I could write a boring book on that, but I won’t, here. Well, not here or anywhere, really.
    Creationism is a bigger problem. Maybe he can be persuaded. Anyone who could read that Pennsylvania opinion and remain a creationist as far as public policy is concerned is a moron. Maybe he hasn’t been approached.

  66. 66
    Joshua Norton says:

    Oh, I don’t think we have NEARLY enough freaks on our side.

    I think we do. And 9 times out of 10 they vote with the repugs. They give us quantity but not quality.

  67. 67
    argh says:

    Cole’s own: "Just a few years ago, the Democratic party was just as petty and just as silly as many of the GOP bloggers are today."

    And it is just a coincidence that your perceptions happen to follow your affiliations, huh ex-Conservative flyboy?

    meh.

  68. 68
    kay says:

    @Joshua Norton:

    I’m familiar with the argument, and I agree with you, to a certain extent. My problem with it is you run the risk of falling into the same trap that we’re currently jeering at Republicans for falling into: "purity tests", right?

    I think you have to watch that.

    The practical result of Dean’s 50 state strategy was that it was state and region specific. We ended up with more Democrats, but they are diverse. I buy that. I think that’s valid. It’s a big country.

  69. 69
    Dave says:

    2006 was the break point for the GOP. They had a choice then about which way to go after getting the tar beat out of them. And they inexplicably decided to simply turn the volume on their message to 11.
     
    It’s the Whigs all over again.

  70. 70
    Napoleon says:

    There is a clear incentive for the non-Southern, moderate to liberal Republicans of the Northeast, Midwest, and West to move beyond the 30+ year domination of the party by Southern hard rightists.

    While you are clearly right, the problem they have is that the party is going to be indelibly stamped as a hard right southern party, and that is going to be a millstone around the necks of the party every where else. With all the moaning the current officeholders at the federal level are doing about Obama and his plans, and consently seeing people like Cantor and Jack Kingston on TV is going to make it all that much worse for them if their strategy does not pan out.

  71. 71
    Mike in NC says:

    Joe the so-called Plumber is scheduled to advise young repubs at CPAC.

    Time to pray for a meteorite to plow through the roof and take them all out at once. Just sayin’…

  72. 72
    John Cole says:

    And it is just a coincidence that your perceptions happen to follow your affiliations, huh ex-Conservative flyboy?

    I know this is supposed to be a snarky attack on me, but if you can give me one reason why anyone would want to be and choose to be affiliated with a bunch of clowns, fill me in. FYI- if you looked at the election results for the past couple of years, I am not the only one to come to the same conclusion- the GOP is a hopeless.

    My reasons were clear and documented- the pharmaceutical company giveaway, the bankruptcy bill, terri schiavo, stem cell research, the prominence of the religious right, Abu Ghraib and torture, the failure of the war the lack of WMD and the undeniable evidence there was no post-war planning, and the recklessness and fiscal irresponsibility of the Bush administration seem to me to be pretty valid reasons for jumping ship. And on many of those, I defended the GOP until it became clear to even the blind (read: me) that there was no defense.

  73. 73
    Zifnab says:

    @kay: We ended up with a lot of fresh blood. Jim Webb isn’t the most progressive Senator, but he was far more progressive than an entrenched DLC Dem like Bayh or Feinstein. Likewise, the pick up of Jon Tester in Montana gave us a farmer-environmentalist even if he wasn’t a loud pro-choicer.

    But I haven’t been seriously disappointed by the new guys to date. I still swear through my teeth at a fair number of old Dems.

  74. 74
    Zifnab says:

    @John Cole:

    I know this is supposed to be a snarky attack on me, but if you can give me one reason why anyone would want to be and choose to be affiliated with a bunch of clowns, fill me in.

    You’re comparing the clowns of 2009 (GOoPers) to the political yellow-bellies of 2002 (defeated Dems). And we’re arguing that this isn’t a fair comparison at all. There were a lot of reasons to vote blue even when the GOP was ascendant. It’s a bit superficial to compare the two caucuses against each other simply because they both went through droughts in Congressional counts.

  75. 75
    jacy says:

    Speaking as someone who was represented by Jindal when he was a congressman, we really don’t want him on the Dem side. He’s all for the legislation for teaching creationism in the science courses of public schools. When running ads for his last congressional election his centerpiece was that gay marriage and Hollywood were the biggest threats to the American family. He threw demons out of his college girlfriend ferchrissakes.

    And that’s just ideology. I haven’t even started down the path of his wondrous fiscal ideas.

    Just because he’s a shade of brown and supposedly has some book learning doesn’t mean he’s not a big bag of crazy.

    Next time someone talks about how "smart" Jindal is, I invite them to come down in Louisiana for a bit. The only reason he’s governor is because Blanco was an idiot too. John Breaux could have wiped the floor with him, but was too smart to come back here.

  76. 76
    Betsy says:

    @Ned R.: Heh. My favorite response from the comments on that piece (and possibly my favorite blog comment of all time): "I’m a HUGE Joe the Plumber fan (to the degree that when I needed a Plumber two weeks ago, I called around until I found a guy named Joe)"
    LOLOLOLOLOL
    I think that tells us all we need to know about the right-wing faithful. They fail at logic like no one else.

  77. 77
    Mike in NC says:

    Who is Joe the Plumber anyway?

    Just a petty thug and lying hypocrite, so naturally attractive to GOP "leaders". Of course, if poor Bobby Jindal walked into a bar where Joe and some of his fellow racist goons were hanging out, they’d beat him to death with their pool cues.

  78. 78
    OriGuy says:

    You’ve got to hand it to George W. Bush – he wrecked an oil company, a baseball team, two or three countries, hundreds of thousands of lives, and now he’s done in a major political party. And he’s only in his mid-sixties! What, one wonders, will he fuck up next?

    Commissioner of Baseball. In ten years, we’d be calling soccer the National Pastime.

    I think it’s funny that conservatives are quoting Burke while Rush is trying to be Robespierre.

  79. 79
    John Cole says:

    You’re comparing the clowns of 2009 (GOoPers) to the political yellow-bellies of 2002 (defeated Dems).

    Yes, but at the time, I didn’t think you were right on the issues and you looked very much like the GOP looks today. Now granted, today I agree you were right back then, so it is unfair to compare the two. Here, this person said it better:

    2004—Democrats were trying to catch attention with shiny minor issues while being RIGHT on the major ones, just ignored

    2009—Republicans are trying to catch attention with shiny minor issues while not only being WRONG about the major ones, but not even trying to address them.

    And I agree with that, and stated as much in my original comment. Shall we revisit:

    Now, in retrospect, I certainly agree that the Democrats were right on the major issues of the day- namely Iraq and the tax cuts, but powerless and out of control, marginalized and ignored, relegated to the coastal regions and major population centers and still fighting the 2000 election, they were reeling from one silly issue to another in paroxysms of anger.

    What saved the Democrats, IMHO, is the Dean strategy, the overall incompetence of the Bush administration, the economic crash, the failure of the war, and the energy and collective organization of the netroots to field and support better candidates. I don’t see any similar strategy for the Republicans, especially considering Steele’s efforts to date are to announce he plans to make the GOP hipper and to whittle the GOP caucus down to only the true believers, I don’t think it is possible for the Obama team to be as incompetent as Bush, the economy is already in the shitter, the war is winding down, and the GOP nutroots is running around flashing their erections about Sarah Palin and going to Joe the Plumber autograph signings.

    Not sure what I am saying that is so objectionable. If I am missing something, fill me in.

  80. 80
    eyeball says:

    Stalinist-style purges, denunciations and re-education gulags are especially humorous when conducted by parties that are out of power. Reminiscent of the scenes aboard the Raft of the Medusa.

  81. 81
    BongCrosby says:

    Marginally on topic, but Joe the Plumber spoke last night at the Borders a few blocks from where I work.

    The Post reported that *eleven* people showed up, and Joe apparently sold all of *five* books.

    One of the things he touched on was how flag-burners, among other people, are destroying OUR country.

    In 2005 and 2006 combined, you could count the number of flag burning incidents on both hands and still have a few fingers to spare.

  82. 82
    DougL says:

    @Betsy:
    Not to take away from your larger point, Joe the Plumber wasn’t just "some doofus who asked an obnoxious question" as if he were just some random guy. He was a plant, and a fairly well connected one at that.

  83. 83
    Napoleon says:

    @DougL:

    Good God, take the tin foil hat off and back away from the computer. He wasn’t a plant. He lived in that neighberhood, which Obama picked at random to campaign in on foot. He was a random wing nut that was in the right place at the right time.

  84. 84
    Cain says:

    @The Grand Panjandrum:

    Ted Kennedy has attended the funeral of almost EVERY soldier from Massachusetts—a liberal scumbag per most of the wingnut crowd. As far as I am concerned it was then, and is now, an important point.

    Our governor did too (Kulongoski). He didn’t miss a single one and would prioritize the funerals over any government business he had to conduct. Say what you will about his policies, but his conduct towards Oregon soldiers does him credit. I think this is true of most Democratic lawmakers.

    cain

  85. 85
    Peter J says:

    He wasn’t a plant. He lived in that neighberhood, which Obama picked at random to campaign in on foot.

    Sure he was. You think Obama picked the neighborhood randomly? Think again.

  86. 86
    Napoleon says:

    @Peter J:

    The point is Obama picked it. I am sure his campaign had their reasons, but I doubt they called up McCain’s campaign and asked them for their input, or were otherwise steered to it by the Republicans.

  87. 87
    GSD says:

    Keep boiling away. I want the richest, strongest and most bitter batch of wingnut reduction evah!

    It goes well on red meat.

    -GSD

  88. 88
    Peter J says:

    The point is Obama picked it.

    That was my point too.

  89. 89
    Ed Drone says:

    Hell, at least Stalin had a plan something the GOP utterly lacks.

    The GOP has a "plan" that reminds me of the Japanese plan for WWII:
    1. Attack Pearl Harbor
    2. ?????
    3. Victory!

    Ed

  90. 90
    Shawn in ShowMe says:

    @John Cole

    Just a few years ago, the Democratic party was just as petty and just as silly as many of the GOP bloggers are today. I remember going rounds with Democratic bloggers about pressing and important issues such as “Does George Bush attend enough funerals of soldiers?

    When Dem bloggers pointed out the utter cowardice of a President sending soldiers off to die and then ducking out on the funerals, that spoke to his sense of honor and decency. He didn’t have any.

    When wingnut bloggers are finding socialists and terrorist sympathizers under every rock, they’re just making shit up.

    But considering where you came from it’s understandable that you occasionally lapse into the The False Equivalency Trap. It’s siren call can be so seductive. You. Must. Resist.

  91. 91
    Adrienne says:

    And do they realize that if they primary out Specter that they’ll get hammered in the general? Do they even understand the shift in voting patterns in PA?

    Listen. These people are DELUSIONAL. In their world, they’ve gotten their asses handed to them in the last two elections because they weren’t conservative enough. Get it? Got it? Good.

    I’m FROM Pennsylvania. I basically lived there my entire life (minus 4 years of college in NYC) split between Central PA and Philly. Any Republican more conservative than Specter will lose to just about any minimally competent democrat. This is the same PA that Obama just won by like, what? 12%. These asshats would rather have nominate a pure wingnut to be the main course at a sacrificial slaughter than keep a somewhat moderate incumbent Republican with at least an outside shot of keeping the seat.

    These obviously have ZERO interest in nominating someone who could actually win the seat. They are actively working against themselves. I say let them self-destruct. For all our talk about Democrats and their self destructive tendencies, at least we have enough good sense to nominate and financially support the right type of Democrat for a particular seat. I’d rather have a blue dog dem win a seat who is with us on some things and against us on others than nominate a progressive with NO shot of winning the seat just because he/she passes my purity test. Hell, Obama doesn’t even pass my purity test, but hey, I’m a commie/fascist/African American welfare queen/socialist so what do I know?

  92. 92
    Cris says:

    @kay: I accept pro-life Democrats, although I am not one. […]
    Creationism is a bigger problem.

    They’re both a problem in the same way, though. I accept pro-life Democrats as long as they’re the kind of pro-life that says "I personally oppose abortion but steadfastly defend the right of others to employ it." I’ll accept a creationist Democrat as long as they say "I believe in the Biblical tale of creation and steadfastly oppose its presence in public school science curricula."

    The trouble with somebody like Jindal isn’t just that he’s pro-life and creationist, it’s that he’s willing to pass or sign legislation imposing those beliefs on the rest of us.

  93. 93
    Adrienne says:

    It’s their choice. They can either notice and respond to that incentive, or they can keep voluntarily surrendering to a hard-right, regionalist movement who will continue to lose elections on the national scale.

    Like Clinton taught us, there is always a "third way". These moderates can leave the Republican party altogether. I suspect that many of them have already crossed the line and voted for Obama. Now they just need to come out of the closet and into the light.

  94. 94
    Adrienne says:

    accept pro-life Democrats as long as they’re the kind of pro-life that says "I personally oppose abortion but steadfastly defend the right of others to employ it."

    And even if they don’t quite go that far, they need to prove to me that they are, while pro-life, still ACTUALLY and honest to God interested in taking the proven steps necessary to reduce unwanted pregnancies and therefore, abortion. If they are against comprehensive sex education, against birth control and/or the morning after pill, they can stay right where the hell they are.

  95. 95
    Conservatively Liberal says:

    Reading the posts over at Hot Air and the respondents sure luvs them sum El Rushbo. This comment had me laughing so hard that I thought I was going to pass out:

    Hmmm… it seems evident to me (and blaringly obvious) that the more people DON’T listen to the wise words of Rush, the worse the Republican party fares. Not saying Rush is a be-all-and-end-all political god; he just happens to consistently make clear sense.
     

    But you nay-sayers just keep on moving moderate. That’s really working out well for the GOP.

    Please let fuckwits like this one ‘purify’ the Rushublican party. Once they finish their purge binge we can easily drown the remnants in a septic tank.

  96. 96
    celticdragon says:

    My reasons were clear and documented- the pharmaceutical company giveaway, the bankruptcy bill, terri schiavo, stem cell research, the prominence of the religious right, Abu Ghraib and torture, the failure of the war the lack of WMD and the undeniable evidence there was no post-war planning, and the recklessness and fiscal irresponsibility of the Bush administration seem to me to be pretty valid reasons for jumping ship. And on many of those, I defended the GOP until it became clear to even the blind (read: me) that there was no defense.

    Yep.

    I have been a Republican my entire adult life (I am 42).

    Being a transgendered woman was never a real good fit in the party, but I am a gun owner and a military supporter.

    What I am not…is a religious, moralizing scold who thinks that the coercive power of government should be used to undo the Western Reformation and enforce Southern Baptist Christianity.

    I have kept my party registration more as a protest then anything else. Hah! You can’t make me go away!

    The utter degeneracy and intellectual vacuity that has taken hold of the party seems fatal to me at this point. I see no point in keeping my little protest, such as it is, going any longer. I am re-registering as unaffiliated.

    I had held out some hope that Steele may not have been a parrot for the unhinged hard right, but his refusal to even discuss civil unions made it clear that the Neuhaus Catholic/Mormon/Evangelical police are watching, and Steele is taking his orders like the bootlicker he has become.

    I am done with them.

  97. 97
    SGEW says:

    I am done with them.

    Welcome to the new era. We’ll let you keep your guns, honest (unless you’re packin’ full-auto open bolt, but why the heck would you do that?).

  98. 98
    gwangung says:

    Welcome to the new era. We’ll let you keep your guns, honest

    Personally, I’d prefer if you were in favor of gun control (as in, being able to hit just what you aim at…can’t STAND gun owners who spray around indiscriminately…..)

  99. 99
    celticdragon says:

    The GOP has a "plan" that reminds me of the Japanese plan for WWII:
    1. Attack Pearl Harbor
    2. ?????
    3. Victory!

    The Japanese Plan, such as it was, consisted of getting any American battleships that survived Pearl harbor to come out and engage in what the Japanese Naval Staff called "Decisive Battle".

    That is, they hoped (for years!) that we would gamely present ourselves in a rematch of the Battle of Tsushima where the Imperial Japanese Navy mauled the Russians in 1905.

    Of course, it didn’t work out that way. Many of the IJN staff were old school battleship diehards who never really understood that the line of battle was now outdated, and that there would never again be another "Jutland" (which in of itself was indecisive).

    They kept this nonsense up right until the end. After we killed Adm. Yamamoto, there wasn’t really any significant voice in the IJN to counter the old guard. Hence, they sent out their impressive, expensive and doomed battleships to Leyte Gulf and the Surigao Straits for the elusive "Decisive Battle"…and we shredded them.

    1. Attack Pearl Harbor
    2.The enemy responds stupidly and predictably to our brilliant plan, and nothing goes wrong in any way we do not anticipate!
    3. Victory!

    Well, they thought it was a good plan at the time…

    You would hope the GOP might learn from that, bit I am not holding my breath.

    3. Victory!

  100. 100
    John S. says:

    He’s a freak on abortion and creationism, and the latter just goes to prove that being a Rhodes Scholar doesn’t guarantee intellectual honesty.

    How ironic.

    In a post deriding Republicans as not being inclusive and purging people that don’t tow the ideological line, you don’t want someone being a Democrat if they are pro-life or believe in creationism. That’s a pretty interesting litmus test.

    I suppose that it’s unpossible that someone personally is pro-life, but doesn’t believe the government should dictate that view to citizens. And I suppose it’s unpossible that somebody believes in both creationism and evolution, because naturally that means they don’t believe in science.

    Fascinating viewpoints you hold there.

    At least Cris seems to get it:

    The trouble with somebody like Jindal isn’t just that he’s pro-life and creationist, it’s that he’s willing to pass or sign legislation imposing those beliefs on the rest of us.

    I think that pretty well sums up my position.

  101. 101
    mark says:

    John,

    If they ever got a third party off the ground (or managed to get the Libertarian party moving in a slightly less off the deep end direction) would you consider signing up?

    I’d have to take a pretty hard look at the sucker, but I’d be tempted.

  102. 102
    celticdragon says:

    (unless you’re packin’ full-auto open bolt, but why the heck would you do that?).

    I don’t own an Ingram M-10 or M-11 machine pistol.

    Can I keep an HK MP5? They fire from a closed bolt on full auto…;)

  103. 103
    Tsulagi says:

    Yeah, really smart of the button holders in Gooperdom to continue that “you’re either with us or against us” brilliance while the “us” keeps getting smaller and smaller. The more they do it, more keep peeling off giving them their middle finger telling them to fuck off instead of sheepishly falling back in line seeking forgiveness.

    Really creates warm fuzzies too. As far as I’m concerned the remaining Purple Heart bandaid type asswipes who think only they are real Americans can all DIAF and I’ll bring gasoline.

  104. 104
    Maus says:

    given the defections from prominent conservatives to Obama

    That may well be, but they’re not the GOP’s "base" anymore, or at least they haven’t been for the last dozen years or so.

  105. 105
    Cyrus says:

    @Peter J:

    The point is Obama picked it.

    That was my point too.

    So you’re saying you think Obama picked the location expecting that Wurzelbacher or another wingnut would show up, ask a critical but facially reasonable question, and get seized on by the McCain campaign as a perfect everyman spokesman?

    Hmm…

    No, Obama’s a good politician, but I doubt he’s that good.

  106. 106
    valdivia says:

    @Ned R.:

    That was an interesting read by Ruffini but mostly, for me, because he actually buys into the underlying assumption that dems are not normal and that Obama is outside the frame of Americaness. He criticizes Joe as a gimmick but he is all about the same kind of mentality that assumes Obama and the Dems could never naturally represent the middle class. seems wrong to me.

  107. 107
    Rick Taylor says:

    The new party chairman hinted as much the other day in regards to all three of the “appeasers” who voted with the Democrats.

    I don’t believe it. The Republicans have the best of both worlds, nearly unanimously opposing the stimulus without actually having to bear any responsibility should the economy sour after it fails. Of course he’s going to make noises when challenged by the base that can be interpreted as tough talk without actually committing to doing anything.

  108. 108
    Farley says:

    @kay: He can’t be persuaded. He has a B.A. in biology.

  109. 109
    Ned R. says:

    Hey folks, relax…you could be a young conservative in DC!

    At the Union Pub, Dustin Siggins, 24, says he sometimes uses humor to deflect the awkwardness of being on the margins of his generation. "I met a girl today at the gym from Boston College. She was getting a law degree from George Washington. She was cute," he says. "But she wants to work for the ACLU, and I said, ‘Oh, you’re one of those.’ " Later, in a phone interview, Siggins says he struggles with some of his party’s more culturally orthodox ideals. "Because I am in this generation and was raised in a pro-gay-marriage era, I am only a little bit against gay marriage, but only a little, like 53 percent to 47," he says. "I have about a dozen gay friends, 30 or 20, and they would all back me up. In college, I used to have lunch with them. . . . We went ice skating once."

  110. 110
    Farley says:

    @Ned R.: What, he can have gay friends, but not ACLU friends?

    Bigot. I hope his ACLU-loving gay friends educate him using the business end of one of those pink sparkly ice skates.

    And 53 to 47? How is he able to determine this? Does he have a total of 100 voices in his head?

  111. 111
    Egilsson says:

    @Dave:

    That’s a crap charge against Clinton.

    Clinton was a great president, and he did great things. Christ, looks at the budget performance under Clinton.

    The failure of the media and national party (of which the DNC and that machinery is a very very small party) is not fairly blamed on Clinton. The Right Wing Noise Machine, or the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy, these were real and they were very effective.

    Outrageous, unbelievable, ridiculous things were held against Clinton, and he needed the blogosphere and a similar vehicle to help him counter the Noise Machine. It didn’t exist then, and he got pummeled nighty by republican witch-hunts and a political media that was pathetic at best and partisan at worst.

    I will never forget following the Starr investigation with increasing disbelief, and the house impeachment proceedings where they impeached Clinton with like 2 hours of testimony and no participation by democrats.

    Democrats should have hit back much harder, and Clinton (and later Gore) needed more support.

    That supporting structure is now in place, and it’s very effective. The Right Wing Noise Machine, while still moving, has 4 flat tires and is being lapped by a very smart and very aggressive blogosphere. Clinton was too early, and he needed backup.

    But he was a great president.

  112. 112
    Zzyzx says:

    Man, the comments on that site… many also hated Jindal’s speech …

    …for the courtesy to Obama it had at the beginning. According to them, the correct way of attacking a popular president is to call him an evil traitor. That’ll work well…

  113. 113
    Dennis-SGMM says:

    "But she wants to work for the ACLU, and I said, ‘Oh, you’re one of those.’

    Now there’s a great little icebreaker. If that’s Dustin’s idea of using humor I’d rather not see his idea of being an asshole.

  114. 114
    Peter J says:

    So you’re saying you think Obama picked the location expecting that Wurzelbacher or another wingnut would show up, ask a critical but facially reasonable question, and get seized on by the McCain campaign as a perfect everyman spokesman?

    Hmm…

    No, Obama’s a good politician, but I doubt he’s that good.

    No, he was planted by Obama to infiltrate the GOP and cause havoc and division.

    I find that idea a lot more reasonable than the idea that McCain and the GOP elevated him to be spokesman and pseudo leader. Cause that’s just too stupid.

  115. 115

    @Ned R.

    Hey folks, relax…you could be a young conservative in DC!

    I’d like to point out to the whiny little fucks described in that article that if they’re having difficulty finding jobs that the US Army is hiring. Three hots and a cot, exciting travel opportunities and you don’t have to polish your boots any more.

  116. 116

    @Adrienne

    I’m FROM Pennsylvania. I basically lived there my entire life (minus 4 years of college in NYC) split between Central PA and Philly. Any Republican more conservative than Specter will lose to just about any minimally competent democrat. This is the same PA that Obama just won by like, what? 12%. These asshats would rather have nominate a pure wingnut to be the main course at a sacrificial slaughter than keep a somewhat moderate incumbent Republican with at least an outside shot of keeping the seat.

    Are you sure about that? This is after all the state that elected Rick "Man on Dog" Santorum, twice.

  117. 117
    CatoRenasci says:

    It’s not popular to say this, but both the "purity" types and the "big tenters" are expressing things that need to be said if the Republicans are not going to go the way of the Federalists and the Whigs.

    The "big tenters" are absolutely correct that we can’t insist on ideological purity on every issue in a national political party.

    The "purity" types, however, are correct when they assert that if the Republican Party cannot be broadly perceived by the American people to stand for a group of core principles, it cannot ever be an effective political force again.

    If Reagan were to be rolling over in his grave (as I believe he is) at developments in our country, I think the thing that would most anger and offend him would be the way the Republicans squandered the trust of the American people with respect to its orientation to fiscal discipline and corruption. We became no better than the Democrats and looked hypocritical to boot!

    I see two fundamental problems: while there is probably significant overlap among the core principles of various factions now vying for control of the party, there are too many issues which represent core principles for one faction that are unacceptable to others. Mostly, these are matters of social conservatism, less matters of defense and economic liberty, but this obscures the party’s message and creates too many opportunities for displays like the past cycle.

    The other fundamental problem is that most of us involved in this debate are not men and women of serious national stature in our fields or even ‘public intellectuals’ who command wide respect. Everyone is so polarizing, whether it be Palin, or Jindal or Romney or whomever, that they turn off as many people within the coalition as they energize.

  118. 118
    Rome Again says:

    I read a bunch of the comments at that Hot Air link. Funny how most of them fall in lockstep and change their story after Rush issues the attitude de jour. These people really do just hand their brains over to Rush no matter what they previously believed. I’ve heard of this phenomenon, of course, but I’d never actually witnessed it with my own eyes before. WOW!

  119. 119
    Rome Again says:

    If Reagan were to be rolling over in his grave (as I believe he is) at developments in our country, I think the thing that would most anger and offend him would be the way the Republicans squandered the trust of the American people with respect to its orientation to fiscal discipline and corruption. We became no better than the Democrats and looked hypocritical to boot!

    We? Uh, no, not we! You perhaps, and others of course, but don’t put the blame on those who never did any of this.

    Nice to see you’re having a real thought though, now how does one go about disseminating that to others and fixing the damage and creating solutions for ALL of us?

  120. 120
  121. 121
    CatoRenasci says:

    119 Rome Again: Not me, either. The collective "we" identifying with the party I’ve supported (many times with misgivings) since Ike’s ’56 reelection campaign was a mistake; should have just said "The Republicans."

  122. 122
    Corner Stone says:

    @CatoRenasci

    If Reagan were to be rolling over in his grave (as I believe he is) at developments in our country, I think the thing that would most anger and offend him

    Fuck Ronald Reagan! Fuck him up his stupid ass!

  123. 123
    Corner Stone says:

    @SGEW

    Welcome to the new era. We’ll let you keep your guns, honest (unless you’re packin’ full-auto open bolt, but why the heck would you do that?).

    You sure about that?
    Obama to Seek New Assault Weapons Ban

  124. 124
    TenguPhule says:

    wow. ace and allah just got got booted by rush.
    ace vs. rush.
    whoever wins, we loose.

    Root for mutually assured destruction.

  125. 125
    Glocksman says:

    @Corner Stone:

    I voted for Obama in spite of his positions on gun rights.
    I’ll be sure to write and call my ‘blue dog’ Congressman (Brad Ellsworth) and both of my Senators to express my opposition to a new AWB.

    Rant: Why the fuck can’t the Holders and other anti gun fuckheads in the Democratic party just leave the goddamned issue alone?

    Indiana went blue in spite of such sentiments, not because of them.
    If the Dems want to break up the winning coalition that put Obama into office, just keep pushing more bullshit gun bans.

    I’m a proud union member and shop steward, but I’m not going to blindly vote Democratic when there are assholes who want to trample all over my rights.

    Fuck this proposal and fuck Eric Holder.

    I would have thought the Dems would have learned their lesson from 2000 when Gore’s embrace of Sarah Brady cost him West Virgina and Tennessee, and thus the Presidency.

    But I guess not.

  126. 126
    Steeplejack says:

    @celticdragon:

    1. Attack Pearl Harbor. Invade Iraq.

    2. The enemy responds stupidly and predictably to our brilliant plan, and nothing goes wrong in any way we do not anticipate, and we are greeted with flowers as liberators!

    3. Victory!

    Well, they thought it was a good plan at the time . . .

    Fix’d modernized.

  127. 127
    TenguPhule says:

    Why the fuck can’t the Holders and other anti gun fuckheads in the Democratic party just leave the goddamned issue alone?

    Because letting wingnuts have free access to automatic weapons now of all times is a stupid fucking idea?

  128. 128
    TenguPhule says:

    I’m a proud union member and shop steward, but I’m not going to blindly vote Democratic when there are assholes who want to trample all over my rights.

    Hello Wolf, you look stunning in that sheepskin.

  129. 129
    TenguPhule says:

    @Cornerstone

    The Obama administration will seek to reinstate the assault weapons ban that expired in 2004 during the Bush administration

    I’m sorry, you were suckered by a title again.

    Anything Bush let lapse, reinstate.

    Anything Bush did, undo.

  130. 130
    Steeplejack says:

    @TenguPhule:

    No real comment, just glad to see that I’m not the only Balloon Juicer up in the wee hours adding comments to long-dead threads.

  131. 131
    Rome Again says:

    I don’t see any similar strategy for the Republicans, especially considering Steele’s efforts to date are to announce he plans to make the GOP hipper and to whittle the GOP caucus down to only the true believers, I don’t think it is possible for the Obama team to be as incompetent as Bush, the economy is already in the shitter, the war is winding down, and the GOP nutroots is running around flashing their erections about Sarah Palin and going to Joe the Plumber autograph signings.

    You mean we’re sitting here talking about 11 people?

    And by the way, John, that’s the longest fucking sentence I’ve ever read.

  132. 132
    TenguPhule says:

    No real comment, just glad to see that I’m not the only Balloon Juicer up in the wee hours adding comments to long-dead threads.

    I’m on Hawaii time.

    We’re just getting into primetime over here.

  133. 133
    Steeplejack says:

    @TenguPhule:

    D’oh! So I am the only East Coaster up in the wee hours. Damn it. I have got to get off this late-shift work schedule. Talk about night-owl syndrome.

  134. 134
    Corner Stone says:

    @TenguPhule

    I don’t think so. The ban *expired* during the Bush administration. From what I gathered from the article it looks like the Obama administration wants to make it *permanent* this time.
    Gun control, or whatever you want to call it, is an issue the Democrats are just wrong on. Because fellow Democrats happen to believe strongly in their interpretation of the 2nd Amendment does not make them a Republican. Is this issue your purity test?
    Not only is this bad politics but it’s really bad timing. This will force all D congresspoeple in moderate or conservative districts to stand up and shout as loud as they can they will vote "No" to any gun control measure. It’s also an issue that will definitely rile up the pathetically floundering R base. It’s a cliche but Gods, Guns, Gheis is repeated time and again for a reason – it works.
    It’s just stupid for Holder to bring this up at this point. Nothing much else going on, eh? No Bushie criminals to pursue for war crimes, et al?

  135. 135

    […] just a few days, Rush has threatened anyone who thought Jindal’s speech was bad, publicly castrated the RNC chairman, repeatedly associated the Republican party with desires for […]

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