Obama’s presser:
I am fierce advocate for equality for gay and — well, let me start by talking about my own views. I think it is no secret that I am a fierce advocate for equality for gay and lesbian Americans. It is something I have been consistent on and something I intend to continue to be consistent on during my presidency.
What I’ve also said is that it is important for America to come together even though we may have disagreements on certain social issues.
And I would note that a couple of years ago I was invited to Rick Warren’s church to speak, despite his awareness that I held views entirely contrary to his when it came to gay and lesbian rights, when it came to issues like abortion.
Nevertheless, I had an opportunity to speak, and that dialogue, I think, is a part of what my campaign’s been all about, that we’re never going to agree on every single issue. What we have to do is create an atmosphere where we can disagree without being disagreeable, and then focus on those things that we hold in common as Americans. So Rick Warren has been invited to speak, Dr. Joseph Lowery — who has deeply contrasting views to Rick Warren about a whole host of issues — is also speaking.
You would think that folks would be ecstatic that they have a President-elect who, for the first time I can remember, is publicly, openly, and repeatedly stating that he supports equal rights for gays and lesbians and that the Christian right is wrong about these issues, but I guess screaming about a slap-in-the-face gets more page views. Let the wanking continue in earnest.
Oh, and btw, since most people will probably miss it in die Sturm und Drang of the Warren speaking role, but during that presser, Obama signaled that some change is coming to the SEC:
Obama named Mary Schapiro, current head of the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority, to serve as chair of the Securities and Exchange Commission. He appointed former Treasury official Gary Gensler to chair the Commodity Futures Trading Commission and Georgetown law professor Dan Tarullo to serve as a governor on the Federal Reserve Board.
Obama blamed regulatory agencies and Congressional committees who failed to head off or minimize the current financial crisis, and pointed to the track records of his newest appointees as signs of the crackdown to come.
In response to questions from reporters, he also broadened his message to apply to a range of social institutions – and to individuals across the board.
“I think the American people right now are feeling frustrated. There’s not a lot of adult supervision out there, whether it’s in the political world or the financial world,” Obama said.
He called for “a restoration of a sense of responsibility, that all of us have responsibilities to operate honorably,” and the notions of “advocating not just for ourselves, but what’s good for the country . . . .operating not just out of greed, but operating out of a sense for the common good.”
Any thoughts about his picks today?
Cassidy the Racist White Man
It’s a slap in the face of something.
DougJ
Every single one of them feels like a slap in the face.
I feel like I voted for Barohn Obain.
Hillary never would have done any of this.
Tim Fuller
Hillary wouldn’t have done any of this? Are you insane or just not paying attention. I wrote of my public support for Hillary on my blog. I dropped that support when she bellied up to Fox News, the very epicenter of the ‘vast rightwing conspiracy’ that brought her husband down.
She’s entirely more flexible on her politics depending on which way the wind is blowing. I wish it wasn’t so, but she has shown me otherwise.
Enjoy.
liberal
Found this in an AP report:
Yet,
DougJ
She wouldn’t have to because she’d have won a large enough mandate that there would be no need to placate the right. With Hillary at the top of the ticket, Democrats would have run stronger in places like Kentucky and Mississippi and we’d probably be looking at a filibuster-proof Senate.
bootlegger
@Cassidy the Racist White Man: A shoe, a shoe to the face I tell ya!
bago
I just re-bought some kmfdm albums because of the "Sturm and Drang" Reference.
John Cole
@DougJ: God damnit, DougJ, at least use a new handle when you do this.
Genine
Obama’s response is just what I figured he was doing and the message he was trying to send.
Any movement is not going to be very successful and/or sustainable by demonizing the other side. Yes, the Republicans did it, got everything they wanted (power) and now the pendulum is swinging the other way and they are facing some serious backlash.
I do not like Warren but I think its a good move and I am very progressive. Though my right-wing friends do not agree with Obama, they are more comfortable with him and do not think he treats them like an enemy. Not a bad turnaround in a few weeks. I think all of this is part of a bigger strategy. Long ball, if you will.
Rick Taylor
Hehehee. It must feel good getting to knock liberals around again, not that I think it’s undeserved. A poster at dailykos calls it "a spit in the eye," which is at least different. You outlawed "throwing so-and-so under the bus" on this blog during the Wright mania in favor "kicked so-and-so in the junk", and I think this could be treated similarly. Nevertheless, if it’s a choice between a party that idolizes an unknown governor as its ideal candidate for the Presidency after a week or two of exposure in return for throwing some red-meat the crowd, versus a party that tears its garments the first time their President-elect picks an objectionable figure to serve 2 minutes in a symbolic ceremony, I know which one I’m going with.
Gay Veteran
what, the chaplain of the KKK wasn’t available?
cleek
sweet.
i’ll be in the bathroom, if you need me.
gbear
Come for the straw men, stay for the condescension. whatever.
boonagain
Ha Ha!!!
I thought #2 was snark, then I read his other posts.
DougJ, I can guarantee you that Hillary would NOT have won Indiana.
John Cole
@gbear: I am nothing if not consistent, baby!
Xecky Gilchrist
I guess screaming about a slap-in-the-face gets more page views.
I doubt it’s a matter of page views. It looks plenty sincere to me.
TheFountainHead
O Hai! I upgraded ur nashunal dyalog!
Why u no luvs me 4 it?
random asshole
John, I think my default comment for the next few months will simply be "I entirely agree with you."
We spent eight years fighting against closed-minded, extremist leadership and now some people are advocating replacing that with an opposite type of closed-minded, extremist leadership. The people presently doing that advocating must have not been paying attention to Obama’s entire presidential campaign where he promised to do exactly what he’s doing now.
Perry Como
It’s a wank on the chest.
Jeff
@John Cole: Obviously, you still have some new readers.
Fencedude
@liberal:
I’m of the opinion that there’s an awful lot of pontificating about what these various people are and are not prepared to do, which rather ignores the point that they get their marching orders from Obama.
The Other Steve
This doesn’t sound like change. It sounds like a bunch of seasoned professionals taking over from children, but that ain’t change.
smiley
For some people, nothing is ever enough. Aravosis:
Edit: I believe getting the shaft trumps a slap in the face.
sparky
@TheFountainHead: kuz no ponyz! hate uze!
libarbarian
I’ve ignored this till now, but WHATS THE BIG FUCKING DEAL with this?
Why is the 102nd Complaining Little Girls brigade throwing such a hissy fit?
The Other Steve
Does Aravosis understand that the phrase "getting the shaft" has homophobic overtones?
This is a slap in the face to all gays everywhere!
Cassidy the Racist White Man
re: DougJ
wait for it…wait for it…
Jeff
@The Other Steve: While I disagree with your premise, I’d say it is still much needed change to have adults in charge.
Andrew
While it will be nice to have a useful idiot like Warren talking about how Obama was so nice to have invited him to the inauguration, the problem is that fuck Rick Warren, fuck him to fucking hell.
akonuche
@random asshole:
I agree with John on top of your agreement, ra. I’m always amused whenever folks around the blogosphere raise a hissy fit over something that Obama has indeed been saying that he would do throughout his campaign.
Rick Warren, eh. Don’t really know much about the guy outside of the Saddleback Forum, but if bringing him to do the opening benediction is the manner by which Obama intends to show those who didn’t vote for him (and even those who did) that he in fact practices what he preaches, then I’m all for it. Like John said, the guy will be on for all of 2 minutes and it’s doubtful that he’ll be up there damning gays to hell.
We have a lot of work to do in this country and a lot of progressive policies to implement, and if using Warren as a signal of inclusiveness is what it will take to get a majority of Americans to hop onto the progressive agenda bandwagon, then so be it.
TheFountainHead
@sparky: I r ponee! I r magikal unidee ponee! Henz da upgraid!
Pugnant
Might it be that he felt the need to publicly state his support for equal rights because he is receiving a vocal response to Warren? He needs to know that he is going to get pushed back at every turn, and that is why your mocking of those doing the pushing is so disheartening.
bootlegger
@The Other Steve: A shaft in the face?
The Populist
All this hand wringing is why I cannot commit to being a Democrat. I share a lot of values with them but if we get worked up over every appointment and this Warren flap without seeing what Obama THE PRESIDENT will do, I give up.
I will never again be a Republican but c’mon Dems, all of us should give this man a chance to lead before tearing him down. Some of my rightie friends are not so disturbed by the O man anymore, which is good. But then again, those folks don’t take their marching orders from the likes of Limbaugh, Malkin, etc.
4tehlulz
@libarbarian: Some guy is giving a speech; the fact that Rick Warren doesn’t have a role in making policy doesn’t matter.
REMEMBER, NEGROES DID PROP 8 — NEVAR 4GET
crack
You seriously don’t see a problem with this? Warren is nothing but a hack, he misuses scripture to become the Gladwell of the Gospel and now he gets the plumbest job a preacher can get. He’ll change his mind about anything when the wind blows the right way, but he’s a charlatan. There are good people out there who are less interested in self promotion that are much more deserving. Obama choosing Warren is sickly and weakly political.
steve
tolerant bunch you folks are
bootlegger
@Pugnant: Don’t be disheartened, pushing begats pushing, or don’t you remember the playground?
JR
Is there any chance, any possible way at all, that others on "my side" of the aisle can avoid misrepresenting my views, accusing me of things I didn’t say, smearing me for imagined positions or just allow for the possibility that not every member of the so-called "Left" thinks and acts the same way?
I don’t think that possibility is real and have come to accept the false witnessing. So, since we’re not on the subject, Cole, you were wrong to help attack Spitzer for a consensual sex issue. Was kind of not-adult considering our troubles and who is causing them. Our nation sure could use a corporate crusader about now … and oh, gee, seems like Teh Kossack scapegoat mantra also destroyed Ralph Nader. Funny how that goes, eh? At least the DemProgs left Pelosi alone while she cleaned the table of impeachment. Nice job from the Spokespeople for Teh Concerned Left.
Reminds me how the only time I see links to editorials by Karl Rove and David Limbaugh are on the DailyKos site, just as the only time I see the twisted sisters of Beck and Malkin are when I visit HERE. What a great f’in time to be a "progressive" as if that means anything in our self-annihilating dipshit era.
Or is that "era of dipshits?" All I know is that the Wall Street just stole our future, and we are being vehey, vehey concerned about the imagined upset feelings by the "progressives" when NO ONE even f’ing KNOWS who progressives are anymore. Unless we only exist as a construct of Right-wing Think Tanks, then it makes perfect sense.
JL
Why isn’t this story receiving the same amount of interest as Warren. The idea that an openly gay be in charge of the Navy which still has the "Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell" policy seems amazing.
eric
I think you could sum up all of the Obama lamentations by "to the victor, the spoils." This is the line we heard vis-a-vis Lieberman as well. "We won so why should we give an inch on progressive cabinet appointments…."
I would rather see don’t ask, don’t tell reversed than a pro-gay rights speaker do the invocation. I would rather see no invocation at all, but i lose there.
In five years time, the forces of anti-gay bigotry will be further on the run and no one will remember this invocation.
I want the world to be a better place than it is. I want it to stay better for my daughter. I do not beleive Obama is as progressive as I am, but i am fairly certain that such a politician would never see the white house except by guided tour.
I want to see the economy stimulated (me too, if i had my way). I want to see global warming addressed by adults with due weight afforded to science and I want a president that openly states the he is an fierce advocate for gay americans. Yes, we have to hold his policy feet to the fire. But his is not a policy choice and one that does not undermine the rights of any american.
The Populist
BTW – I agree about Warren, just another hateful ass pretending to be a Christian. I do see the strategery Obama is using here and I find it acceptable as long as he doesn’t take any advice from the man or others like Warren.
Andrew
zomg we r not tolerant of teh homophobes!!!111!!!
jenniebee
DJShay
One of the traits I consider to be the foundation of being a "liberal" or leaning left, is the ability to keep an open mind about anything and everything. But frankly, that past few weeks have opened my eyes a little to my fellow liberals. Especially the outrage over Rick Warren. Every single step Obama has taken since 11/05/08 has been scrutinized to the nth degree and level of backlash some of his decisions has created in the "far left" groups has left me mouth agape. These same people argued constantly against Bush’s "It’s my way or the highway" approach to governance, yet these groups seem to practicing the same approach.
Jason Eckelman
So, I commented on the original thread yesterday, and may have been a bit overly agitated about the points I was trying to make, but it’s still bugging me, so I thought I’d give it another whack. I think the quote from Aravosis gets at what’s bothering me. Yes, his presentation is a bit over-dramatic, but I think substantively his point is valid. An avowed racist would not be welcome at the inauguration. Nor would an avowed sexist, etc. I don’t think this is a pity party or liberals/gays being congenitally unhappy with whatever the current leadership is. Yes, cliches like "slap in the face", etc. ad nauseum are tired and irritating. But, again, the sentiment behind the statement is valid. I guess I don’t understand why that strikes you as silly or naive, or whatever. I’m really not trying to pick a fight or insult anyone – I just don’t get it.
bootlegger
@4tehlulz:
WTF?????? Were they only ones voting or am I missing something?
The Populist
It would be "a move that would put the first openly gay person at the top of one of the services." Why isn’t this story receiving the same amount of interest as Warren. The idea that an openly gay be in charge of the Navy which still has the "Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell" policy seems amazing.
Nothing gets coverage anymore unless it’s "did Obama REALLY KNOW about what Blago was doing" and stupid stuff like that.
If he DOES appoint this man as Sec Navy, I would expect some to calm down for a bit and it only proves Obama is a real leader.
DrDave
@Genine:
I’m at, "I tried to tell you but you weren’t listening. But I’m glad you finally see it."
A far cry from the "I earned my political capital and now I’m going to spend it" crappitude from Bush.
harlana pepper
how about a ‘pup in the face’ – is that too much to ask?
theturtlemoves
That might be valid if he’d never expressed that support before now. But he has. Repeatedly. And in venues where that support wouldn’t have been overly popular like Baptist churches.
The Populist
BTW – has anybody noticed how the South has been frozen out of the Obama administration’s cabinet picks?
The Other Steve
This is a slap in the face to all hand wringing Democrats everywhere!
Andrew
I don’t expect Obama to do everything I want, but I think that "don’t be a complete dick to your supporters" isn’t such a high bar to clear.
Doug H. (Comrade Fausto no more)
"Plumbest job a preacher can get?" Really?
See, this is why we call it ‘wanking’. I don’t rememeber the Jews going apeshit when Billy Graham showed up for Bill Clinton, yet Rick Warren is the equivalent of a ‘KKK Grand Wizard’ or a ‘spit in the eye’. Over-reaction, we can has it.
Xecky Gilchrist
@Jason Eckelman: An avowed racist would not be welcome at the inauguration. Nor would an avowed sexist…
Warren is an avowed sexist, IMO.
SDM
Hilda Solis, the Labor pick, is really great.
bootlegger
@DJShay: Not very "liberating" is it? A few years back I trolled a rightie website and they labeled me a "traditional liberal" because I was more open-minded and tolerant than the "neo-liberal". Neo-conservative, neo-liberal, orthodox conservative, orthodox liberal, fundamentalist about anything, these are the wingnuts, on the wing and nutty.
Fwiffo
I look forward to David Duke and Louis Farrakhan being given speaking roles in the inauguration. After all, we can disagree without being disagreeable.
As far as today’s appointments… Hilda Solis at Labor is excellent. John Holdren as White House science advisor is outstanding.
I’m lukewarm on Mary Schapiro. It strikes me as a "let’s not rock the boat" pick in a boat in serious need of rocking.
The Other Steve
So Aravosis using homophobic attacks didn’t bother you?
John Cole
Nonsense, I never attacked Spitzer for consensual sex. I am all in favor of consensual sex. I think you all should be having as much consensual sex as you want. I think Spitzer should have consensual sex 25 times a day if he has time and the pelvic muscles to support it.
What I attacked Spitzer for was 1.) Being a total idiot and giving his opponents something to use to destroy him and 2.) being a total hypocrite for being a grandstanding jackass prosecuting prostitution rings while soliciting their services.
I never once, though, attacked him for consensual sex. I think prostitution should be legal and regulated.
The Other Steve
Shouldn’t we be more tolerant of those who like dick?
Crusty Dem
I give up. Too many posts to keep up, what is this, eschaton? And to think, the post I was writing included "dirty sanchez" and "2 wingnuts, 1 cup".
Doug H. (Comrade Fausto no more)
When Oprah and Dr. Phil invite Duke and Farrakhan as guests to their shows, you might have an argument.
Matt
Is there anyone here who’s not straight + white (i.e., any minorities) who agree with John Cole’s original post? Are there any Hispanics here who would be fine with, say, Tom Tancredo’s thinly-veiled xenophobia being given a spot at the inauguration? Or any black people who’d be fine with David Duke being given a nice speaking job? Or is this mostly just a bunch of people in the majority lamenting about how those minorities can certainly get uppity at times? (An honest question, if not slightly inflammatory.)
DJShay
@bootlegger:
I guess the tubes are no place for moderate leaners of any political stripe.
The Other Steve
I’m sorry, I just can’t take this discussion seriously.
I’m probably just bitter about the gays throwing us under the bus in 2004.
JR
libarbarian: I’ve ignored this till now, but WHATS THE BIG FUCKING DEAL with this?
There is no big deal, except that it serves to bash liberals to pretend that it is. Maybe you knew that already.
This country is still marching in lockstep off the Right-wing cliff, we seem to have become mentally supine to their lies. Clarity is sometimes found in the pile at the bottom, so maybe in that clarity you "I-would-be-a-Republican-except-they-want-me-dead-but-I-hate-Libs-more-neener" types can understand you are the dupiest dupe-dupes that were ever duped.
See, Republicans are the Party of Business. Therefore their mindset is corporate. They own the media and have been issuing ThinkTank propaganda which works on weak minds. Unfortunately, weak minds are the ones that think they cannot be influenced (ie, CONned). It’s a problem.
Those who don’t defend Dems or Progressives or Liberals, please go to the other side. Yes, I know. But go there anyway.
John Cole is a Pig
I guess screaming about a slap-in-the-face gets more page views
Really fucking easy for you to say, isn’t it, you breeder piece of shit?
sparky
@TheFountainHead: u kno ponie! teh spakles blinded mee! omg–teh hillary sed u not ponie–me kno lissten!
mayeeebee joe teh pipist knos poniez!
Blue Raven
I begin to think that a good chunk of the Left is suffering from some form of post-traumatic stress disorder. We’ve been kicked in the package so often that when someone we thought was safe reminds us that the kickers exist, we flinch and feel the pain all over again. The problem is that reality often brings us into proximity with reminders of trauma. And we turn on the "safe" person, thinking they should always be nice to us and not make us think about the bad people who kicked us.
Me, I think I’ve been processing a childhood full of kickers too long. I can separate the safer person from their association with the unsafe and take a longer view of why they’re doing it. This is why I’m one of the last queers to scream about Rev. Warren. I will cheerfully pick apart "Purpose-Driven Life" with one hand tied behind my back without a degree in theology. But the right’s so used to having a voice at the table that they need to get one even now.
And FFS, y’all, Cole christened Obama the Magical Unity Pony for a reason.
bago
Ok, KMFDM gets extra points for using "The beatings will continue, until morale improves" as a lyric.
jenniebee
OK, my original post wasn’t just the blockquote, it included a polite, sincere offer to be Obama’s baby mama. I fail.
@John Cole: "I never once, though, attacked him for consensual sex. I think prostitution should be legal and regulated."
How did you ever fit in with Republicans? One half of the coalition would be furious with you for wanting it legalized, but that would pale beside the outrage the other half would have over the idea of it being, zomg, regulated.
Blue Raven
@Matt: I’m bisexual and agree with John.
@John Cole is a Pig:
1/10. Troll harder.
jenniebee
@John Cole is a Pig: point of order – are infertile heteros still breeders? Inquiring minds want to know.
John Cole
Solid political instincts you got there. I am on your side on gay marriage, benefits, gay adoption, job discrimination, gays in the military, and well, every issue that matters, but because I don’t care if some moron spews a minutes worth of religious stuff (all of which is nonsense to me) at the invocation, I AM TEH ENEMY.
PS- no wife, no kids. Biologically, you and I both “breeders.”
Doug H. (Comrade Fausto no more)
@Blue Raven:
Nah, I think its just the nature of the business. Iif there’s one thing both sides of the coin thrive on, its outrage.
Doug H. (Comrade Fausto no more)
@John Cole: I’m assuming the drive-by is from the nascent Lorena Bobbit Memorial PUMA Battalion.
Zifnab
@Blue Raven:
Dude. More credit than that. Using "breeder" as a derogatory term earns you a 4 baseline.
sparky
@eric:
AhabTRuler, V
Did somebody forget that this is politics?
Y’know…making sausages. Your not supposed to like the
stupidsmelly bastards who you have to pretend to get along with.4tehlulz
@Zifnab: Nah. "Breeder" is too easy. If he went with "Het," that would be better trolling.
Fwiffo
And there we have the problem. Being a racist or an antisemite makes you too unseemly to show your face in public. Being a homophobe is A-OK.
Screamin' Demon
Teh QOTD.
The "far left" will keep whining and crying about this non-issue and other trivial bullshit, and we’ll once again be two years and out with a simultaneous Democratic Congress and president, just like in ’93-’95. The Repubs will take advantage of our vacillation, block every Democratic initiative, and and blame us for our inability to get anything done. Then they’ll take over in 2010. Why? Same reason every time.
The circular firing squad.
Will Rogers was right. The Dems are the most disorganized bunch of rabble since the Keystone Cops. I had hoped that Obama’s focused and disciplined campaign would inspire our party to emulate such impressive cohesion.
But instead of hanging together for the next two years concentrating on issues that cannot wait, like fixing the economy, ending the war and reversing the damage Bush has caused, we’re going to whine about silly things like two-minute invocations and whether Caroline Kennedy deserves to be in the Senate and whether the "progressive left" has enough representation in the cabinet. (How anyone actually believed Obama was going to be their "progressive" savior is beyond me. In some ways, he’s to the right of Hillary Clinton, but sound judgment won out over "experience.")
If the left keeps this nonsense up, I guarantee the above scenario will come to pass. And instead of blaming themselves for their inability to be patient, for wanting it all and wanting it now, and for derailing progress with their endless whining about such things as how it could be that gay marriage wasn’t declared the law of the land five minutes after the inaugural…
…they’ll blame Obama.
Jesus Fucking Christ, the man isn’t even the president yet, and they’re already writing his political obituary.
Thanks in advance for nothing, people.
Matt
I guess the issue (I’m black and gay, double whammy) is that I’m just amazed that you guys can’t see how this is disappointing to a group of people who have been just completely shit on our entire lives. Yeah, Obama is pro-gay rights. But so was Clinton, who gave us DOMA and DADT. Intentions are great, but it’s actions that speak volumes. And the fact that Obama is allowing Rick Warren to speak, hasn’t appointed any gays to the cabinet (I know, I know, he’s only appointing the best of the best, but still, no qualified gays…?), didn’t get behind the No on 8 campaign, I dunno, it’s all vaguely reminiscent of Clintonism. Being for gay rights, but not willing to expend the political capital to fight for those rights and letting us just sort of fall to the wayside because we’re not electorally large enough to matter.
Might Obama completely shatter my doubts and help gay people achieve the rights that we’ve been fighting for? Well, he’s the first president I’ve ever voted for whole-heartedly, without holding my nose at the voting booth, choosing the lesser of two evils, so I certainly hope he is. But the fact that you guys just can’t understand why this is a worrisome pattern and why gay people would be concerned is, to me, more wankerish than anything. Does that make any sense?
J.D. Rhoades
Which is exactly the way Bush governed. "We got 51%, it’s a mandate because we say it is, so sit down and shut up. " Obama got elected, in part, because people were sick of that.
But see, this doesn’t help either.
I confess, I’ve been back and forth a half dozen times over this Warren invitation. On the one hand, I do like the symbolism of having both Warren and Lowery speak, with Lowery getting the last word. On the other hand, I can understand how having a guy who has always been openly anti-gay at your inauguration would piss gays and lesbians off. On the gripping hand, as John points out, it’s 2 minutes out of, God willing, an eight year presidency. So let me just put myself down in the lonely category of, "I’m seriously disappointed in this pick, but not so much that I’ll call the Obama Presidency a failure before it starts."
Perry Como
A better troll would have been:
Using "piece of shit" is just lazy. 1/10
Doug H. (Comrade Fausto no more)
Which is why there was more backtracking than a French army in Belgium after Prop 8 passed.
John T
I’m just curious, do the Obama-Warren apologists really not understand why gay people are so pissed about this, or are they just tactically pretending not to understand? I mean, I could go on a rant about why I’m pissed about this, but I have a feeling I’d just be wasting my breath while the straight people snicker quietly and condescendingly at my naïvete.
JR
Cole: Nonsense, I never attacked Spitzer for consensual sex … What I attacked Spitzer for was 1.) Being a total idiot and giving his opponents something to use to destroy him and 2.) being a total hypocrite for being a grandstanding jackass prosecuting prostitution rings while soliciting their services.
Well you were pretty gloating howler monkey about it, so maybe your reasoning was blurred for me. I actually agree with your #2 reason. But I wish we had taken a stand and said NO MORE destroying the few corporate crusaders we have in America over sex. Especially when suchlike as Vitter is serving. And when they are caught, the Con Republicans don’t have this scold-committee of so-called supporters joining in to throw rocks: the Repubs give their sex-scandal pols ovations.
We all know that the US auto corporations secretly investigated Nader’s personal life and were caught and had to pay restitution which Nader used to advance the Progressive movement … we all know this history, right? The corporations wanted dirt so they could do to Nader what they eventually did to Spitzer, and it is strange that progressive supporters haven’t gotten this particular joke yet.
I think I am just reacting to the constant self-immolation done by people who supposedly support progressives. It reminded me of attacking Nader: yeah he ain’t perfect, but I will support those who fight for me.
Now we have the spectacle of zombie-progs rising from the woodwork to proclaim that they wish to be Democrats but the Libs are just too whiney and unhappy and girly and and and … whatever the Right-wing media claims, that’s what.
Fencedude
@4tehlulz:
Not to mention that its completely out of place. "breeder" is an insult used by those hardcore childfree nutjobs.
Doug H. (Comrade Fausto no more)
A lot of us do see it, but to repeat what John said: Perspective. That we may see Warren as homobigot #1 doesn’t mean that the rest of the America – including the guys we’ll need on our side to get stuff done – see him that way. Or that him giving the invocation means anything more than a hill of beans.
On the other hand, the news is starting to get out that Warren isn’t quite the warm and fuzzy pastor everyone thought he was. Wheels within wheels?
Mary Beth Maxwell says hi.
metricpenny
Unfortunately, Mary Shapiro is not an improvement.
The SEC abdicates its regulatory surveillance functions for broker/dealers to securities industry self-regulatory organizations. Each year the SEC then performs a small number of "oversight exams" on the examinations conducted by the self-regulatory organizations.
The main self-regulatory organizations prior to 2006 were the National Association of Securities Dealers, Inc. (NASD) and the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE). The NYSE examined its member firms, the Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers and Goldman Sachs type firms; and, the NASD examined the approximately 5,000 others. On a set schedule each year, the two groups conducted dual examinations of the NYSE firms. In 2006 the two organizations were combined to form The Financial Industry Regulatory Authority (FINRA).
Many in the financial services community wondered why these two long time rival self-regulatory organizations were being combined.
Now I think we know.
And if Mary Shapiro, formerly head of the NASD, and now the head of FINRA, isn’t complicit in the mess we now find our financial services industry in, then I don’t know who is.
demimondian
@Matt: Yes, actually, there are — Cain, for instance, is decidedly non-white. jake 4 that 1 is actually both African American and (OMFG) GHEY!
And, for God’s sake, John may be wrong about whether the symbolism of this choice is important or not — he and I clearly disagree about that — but he is one of the few people arguing that it’s not who honestly acknowledges that there is an issue *at all*.
I’m personally insulted; I view the inauguration as something in which all Americans participate, at some level, and so I find inviting Warren to be the equivalent of inviting Le Haye, but apparently Obama disagrees with me, and views it as a relatively private affair. To be fair, he’s right — it’s *his* inauguration, after all.
I still think he had a tremendously tin ear.
Common Sense
@Matt:
I’m not so sure about that. Rumors have long swirled around Janet Napolitano, for instance.
Dreggas
You know, one of the things I detest about the religious nut-jobs is their intollerance for anyone who disagrees with them. Come to think of it one of the things I detest about some on the left is the very same thing.
We whined and bitched about intollerance for 8 years and then elected obama partially because he wasn’t such an asshole. Now, when he shows he’s not an asshole, people bitch because they want him to be an intollerant asshole.
It’s the same freaking shit wingers do. They don’t listen and are rightly labelled assholes for it.
I support gay marriage, i was happy to see friends get married here in CA before prop h8. Yes Warren played a role in prop h8 and while I would make it clear as day (as Obama has) that I detest the role people like Warren played there are some areas we can agree on. And while I view Warren as an idiot he’ll be a useful idiot on those areas.
After 8 years of getting nothing done, our economy in the toilet, a gov’t that wouldn’t listen to the people and one party ignoring the other you’d think we’d want to get things done and get to work on the problems we face together, you know, not as a red america or blue america or whatnot. But no, we’d rather bitch about a preacher giving the invocation at the inauguration. Forget the other preacher there to give the benediction being unabashedly liberal.
Let the purity tests begin!
Fwiffo
Actually, it’s pretty important tactically for Obama to have constant criticism from the left, otherwise he’s got nothing to triangulate off of. If he can’t periodically crap on the dirty hippies, there’s no way for him to burnish his credentials as a post-partisan, moderate what-have-you. It’s the whole Overton window thing.
Looked at another way – in negotiation, you always ask for more than you want, so that the eventual compromise is closer to what you really wanted.
There’s a story about how on some issue in the 90s (I wish I could remember what it was), Bill Clinton told Bernie Sanders that he didn’t complain enough about the compromise because if he had he would have given him more room to maneuver on the left.
Dreggas
@demimondian:
I’m personally insulted; I view the inauguration as something in which all Americans participate, at some level, and so I find inviting Warren to be the equivalent of inviting Le Haye, but apparently Obama disagrees with me, and views it as a relatively private affair. To be fair, he’s right—it’s his inauguration, after all.
Just to play a bit of devil’s advocate here, are you saying that Warren and those who follow him aren’t part of that "All Americans"? After all the person giving the benediction is a big supporter of civil rights and gay marriage.
JR
Screamin’ Demon says: The "far left" will keep whining and crying about this non-issue and other trivial bullshit
The ones who seem to be Whining and Crying are not necessarily the "far left." Nice for you to be concerned, but just man up a little and it will come out all right.
Other "progressives," it is not necessary to come out publicly and commence with a meltdown over how awful-awful-awful it is what the Libs are doing to Obama and civil discourse and political unity.
Though, if a meltdown is warranted, it WOULD be appropriate to come out about the torture report, or Paulsen’s latest ploy to feed our futures to the Bankster Overlords, or Bush’s late term actions to undercut environmental protections, or about twenty different ongoing political actions being perpetrated upon our benighted land … though that wouldn’t fit the Right-winger’s script I guess.
mey
Squeaky wheel gets the oil. The right is outraged over anything that hints of being "progressive." It makes perfect sense that the left should be outraged over anything that hints of being "regressive."
Yes, it means people sound like whiny brats (on both sides), but as we’ve all learned, it’s what works. Trying to be adult about it, and respond in a responsible way gets nothing done. You get ignored. If politicians will cave into regressive outrage, then throw just as much progressive outrage right back.
Matt
Well, that I can sort of deal with. John actually just said that this is the first president to support gay rights in a while (aside from Clinton I guess, which is why we’re all so trepidatious), and then kind of mocked our unhappiness as wankery. But still, the quiet acceptance of people like Rick Warren has gotten the gay community no-fucking-where, and it’s only been since we started raising our voice to things like this that we’ve made progress. If we’d just sort of sat quietly back while the Rick Warrens and the Pat Robertsons were foaming at the mouth during the whole gay marriage fiascos during 2004 and 2005, I doubt we’d be on the verge of having gay marriage pass in California (NEXT TIME!!). But Barack Obama is far better at playing the political game than I am, and I assume you probably are too, so maybe sitting back and just nodding along is the best course to take. But when we see people making light of our fears and telling us to just trust them, they know what they’re doing when it’s not THEIR rights on the line, uch, leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Please understand that.
I would assume people already knew that, but the public at large probably doesn’t follow those things as closely as some of us do. But then, had we not raised a huge hissyfit over his invocation it never would have come to light.
Hilda Solis says hi right back. :(
JR
Screamin’ Demon says: The "far left" will keep whining and crying about this non-issue and other trivial bullshit
The ones who seem to be Whining and Crying are not necessarily the "far left." Nice for you to be concerned, but just man up a little and it will come out all right.
Other "progressives," it is not necessary to come out publicly and commence with a meltdown over how awful-awful-awful it is what the Libs are doing to Obama and civil discourse and political unity.
Though, if a meltdown is warranted, it WOULD be appropriate to come out about the torture report, or Paulsen’s latest ploy to feed our futures to the Bankster Overlords, or Bush’s late term actions to undercut environmental protections, or about twenty different ongoing political actions being perpetrated upon our benighted land … though that wouldn’t fit the Right-winger’s distraction script, I guess.
LTMidknite
It’s time for the people having a hissy fit at Obama over Warren should now boycott the Rachel Maddow show for giving platform to a known homophobic bigot.
I explain here: http://themidnightsolution.blogspot.com/2008/12/gays-and-lesbians-up-in-arms-with-obama.html
Matt
Just to be clear, I do think it’s ridiculous the criticism he’s been getting for appointments to his Cabinet, among other things. And I am greatly comforted in the fact that he picked Joseph Lowery to give benediction during the inauguration. I can see how he’s playing both sides off each other (or at least, how he’s trying to). It’s just the knee-jerk "those uppity gays get angry about everything, those fools" reaction that got me going this morning. Sorry.
liberal
@Fwiffo:
I don’t disagree with the idea, but why don’t Republicans ever do it?
HumboldtBlue
Sure Barry, that’s going to happen with the likes of Rick Warren and his den of idiotic followers who believe that the only way to heaven is to kill anyone who doesn’t believe the same shit as you do.
Sure Barry, the likes of Lindsey Graham and McConnell and asshats like McCain and Schumer are going to hold your fucking hand and sing kumbaya while just floating along with your plans. Warren and his ilk want one thing — other than your money — they want your fealty. There is no middle ground, there is no compromise, there is no reason to engage them in anything other than shunning.
And fuck you too Cole and your condescending bullshit. What liberals have learned is that asswipes like you, whether you now claim to be a Republican or not, is that there is no good faith from the shitbirds that occupy the right wing in this nation.
I don’t want an accord with them, they’re dangerous to the viability and functionality of my country. Rick Warren brazenly opposed civil rights for my brothers and sisters, friends and family. I have no desire to hear his fucked up views on anything, much less at the inauguration of my secular president.
You want disagreeable? Come sit with my buddy Ken and his partner and explain to them why they’re fucking "others" because assholes like Warren, who deserve about as much respect as a 3-card monty dealer, claim their fucked up interpretations of fucked up mythology are the moral center of our planet.
Let’s make nice with the people who called us traitors, terrorist-supporting demons whose only goal is the destruction of our nation, Let’s play nice with bigots, both social and theological because that’s what we’re supposed to do. Let’s play nice with torture fetishists and simpletons who believe that jesus rode a fucking dinosaur.
Fuck you.
Andrew
What about Warren advocating the assassination of Ahmadinejad?
It’s not just that Warren is a homophobe, it’s that he’s a dangerously crazy homophobe who wants to bring on the end times.
demimondian
@Dreggas: Fair point.
I kind of think that there’s a bit of asymmetry between a loyal group of supporters who legitimately fear…oh, murder…and a group of opponents who minimize the importance of those murders. But, hey, that’s a minor point; the monsters are American, too.
wingnuts to iraq
Will anyone care Jan 21?
What about February 21?
I’m guessing no.
But hey, I can wad my panties on it now, so I might as well.
The Populist
I guess the issue (I’m black and gay, double whammy) is that I’m just amazed that you guys can’t see how this is disappointing to a group of people who have been just completely shit on our entire lives.
I voted against Prop h8.
I constantly rip on anybody (to their faces) when they denigrate gays.
I work with, hang with and meet with many people who are gay.
I have gone to gay bars with gay friends even though I am straight. Never once did I feel uncomfortable or want to leave.
I wish people would stop telling me I can’t see the significance in Warren giving the invocation at O’s Inauguration. I do HATE the idea of it but I also see what O is trying to do. We seem to want to bury the guy before he even has a chance to show his leadership chops.
Please, before labeling me as not getting it, and I do GET it, please understand some of us don’t agree on every little issue. I know a few gay friends of mine who vote for conservatives. I find it weird and I can’t understand why they’d do that, but it just proves you can’t lump everybody into one area.
Librarian
If I were Obama, I would have selected the Rev. Arthur Belling.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXxS0l6Nh3w
Andrew
Well, you can lump them into two: morons and not morons.
The Populist
BTW – the more the left leaning posters hate on Obama realize you feed the trolls on the right by allowing them to say "I knew it".
We should be celebrating the fact that one of the most hostile, anti-gay administrations is leaving office. Obama has said MANY times he supports GBLT rights, so let’s lay off on this Warren thing.
Steve S.
False equivalence. Nobody except for a microscopic fringe advocate that religionists be prevented from observing their religion in any way they please, so long as its in their own homes and churches. Evangelicals of the Warren stripe, on the other hand, are specifically in the public arena for the purpose of getting laws passed to enforce their religious dictates.
Obama’s more impressive move would have been to task the invocation to a pastor from a small evangelical church, someone who is unknown on the national stage but who generally holds the conservative social views. That way he could send his message to the evangelicals that they are invited to the party, while keeping power-mongering megachurch phonies like Warren at arm’s length.
demimondian
@The Populist: Not true.
We are a part of a coalition, and if we just shut up for fear of what the bad guys Just. Might. Say., then we might as well stop trying to push. Our job is to be squeaky wheels when appropriate — and this is a time when it’s appropriate.
Darkrose
@Matt:
Well, it does to me, but then again, I’m black, gay, and a woman, so what do I know? Except that not only did Warren compare my marriage to incest and pedophilia, but apparently I’m also a Nazi because I have this crazy idea that the state shouldn’t be allowed to tell me what I can do with my body. And the idea that this is being legitimized by Obama is frankly disappointing.
Andrew
If the Warren choice is about political triangulation to help Obama with the right wing nutters, then the lefty blogosphere getting pissed off will help him.
sparky
@HumboldtBlue: i respectfully disagree. i think it’s important to fight to the teeth with these folks but saying "fuck you" isn’t going to help. why? cuz for another half a generation, there’s more of them then us. all you are doing with the "fuck you" is ensuring that they stick their fingers in their ears. they may never take them out, true, but that attitude guarantees that they aren’t going to listen to a single thing you say about anything. i suspect to some of them, it justifies their bad faith (or excuses it in others, the the endless crap about civility, which i think is hogwash). to put it another way, they may well be dangerous to the viability of "your" country, but guess what, it’s their country too. this is a fairly fucked up corporatist oligarchy but to the extent it is still a republic the way to get what you want is to get the votes, just like they did.
ThymeZoneThePlumber
I’m with Casssidy, somebody is surely slappin’ somebody.
My face has been slapped. The appeasement of Prick Warren is more than I can bear. Like demi, I believe that this was done to personally insult me, ThymeZone. Why I have been singled out for this cruel treatment, I just cannot understand.
Tsulagi
Sweet Jesus. For the pick-your-battles and keep-your-powder-dry Dems who never pick a battle and keep their unused powder so freakin dry it sucks moisture out of nearby rocks, Warren invocating in the name of Jesus for a minute or three is the thing to lock and load over? Lord deliver us.
I’m agnostic going on atheist, but I agreed to allow our two kids to be baptized in the Catholic Church. Meant nothing to me, and not a whole lot to the wife, to have some water dribbled on them and some ritual words said. But it meant a lot to the wife’s mom and most of her family.
Nope, didn’t see it then or now that I sold out to organized religion. That I was enabling the Catholic church in its discrimination against women or gay people worldwide. Nor supporting its past crimes or buggering priests today.
I took the pragmatic approach. Wife’s mom wasn’t and hasn’t even been allowed onto a battlefield as to whether the kids will be raised devout Catholics. So the wife and I gave her a bone, a scrap. The kids got a little wet, and I got major lasting brownie points on the cheap for standing there for a few minutes during the ritual. Made an old woman happy. Worked for me.
So maybe Obama has similar prioritizing. No big deal to give the other side a meaningless scrap to distract them while focusing on winning the war.
demimondian
@ThymeZoneThePlumber:Aren’t you the guy who was just telling us, six months ago, that the increase in gasoline prices didn’t matter because inflation, in the long term, wound up tracking those prices?
Hey, how’d that prediction turn out?
Phoebe
I’m agreeing with everything "Andrew" has said on this thread.
First of all, "perspective"? What does that mean? That because Obama’s much better than other politicians, and because there are much bigger things to worry about, that I should be fine with this? From a guy who freaks out over a shitty beer?
I still heart the MUP, still thrilled he won. OF COURSE. If that’s what you mean by perspective, then fine. But if I feel a pea under 14 mattresses, well, the brow will furrow. And this is a pea under my mattresses. I do not view it as a good thing, try as I might.
First, I’m all for disagreeing without being disagreeable, but would it be disagreeable to not invite someone to do the invocation? Would that have been a slap in the face to Rick Warren and his hordes? Is he the default invocator?
And I’m all for debate – even, yes, on stuff that should be beyond debate. The passage of Prop 8 means that the stuff needs to be debated, still, obviously. Whether Gavin Newsom likes it or not. But there will be no debate between Warren and Lowry, so putting Warren up there is just an endorsement. It’s an endorsement, and that’s what I can’t get away from.
I understand how it could be seen as necessary because Warren has tons of followers. Farrakhan doesn’t have tons of followers. The KKK doesn’t have tons of followers. THAT is the difference, not one of wrongness or rightness. Wrong is wrong.
And I do think it’s ok to disagree on some things. I disagree with Obama on corn-based ethanol. But hey, if he wants to leave no stone unturned for energy independence, then at least his heart is in the right place, even if he is mistaken. I even think Huckabee’s heart is in the right place – just completely completely mistaken – on the gay thing. I’m all for meeting and talking with the dictators who are worse than Warren, too. Talking-with does not mean endorsing. But this is an endorsement.
And yes, I endorsed Obama despite our [admittedly few] differences, but if he had been pro-torture, or anti-homo, I would not have endorsed him. Those are endorsement killers for me [just to name two]. I would be happier if they were endorsement killers for him too. That’s all.
BP in MN
@Tsulagi:
Hey, it’s Democratic elected officials who never pick a battle, not the people who are (rightfully) freaking out over this.
The Moar You Know
I DON’T CARE WHO HE PICKED HES A BIGET AND NEXT TIEM IM VOTING FOR RALPH NADAR CUZ HE WILL FIX EVERYTHING THATLL SHOW EM
John Cole
Let’s see:
I guess I shouldn’t have been so vague and used clearer speech.
Matt
Populist:
If you didn’t post something vaguely condescending about gay people’s unhappiness about Rick Warren’s selection then I’m certainly not lumping you in with them. I appreciate people seeing it differently than me, I just don’t like the complete writing-off of those concerns.
But, again, Clinton was pro-gay rights and he signed DADT and DOMA into law. The fact that everyone just sort of takes all these pro-gay-rights claims at face value when they’ve repeatedly been broken by others in the past and are just puzzled about why GLBT people would be skeptical and only cautiously optimistic is weird. But whatever. I am very, very open to the fact that I might well be proven very, very wrong. God, I hope I am. But telling minority groups and civil rights groups NOT to go after an administration for doing something it perceives as a slight or impediment to equality is, I think, singularly ahistoric.
ThymeZoneThePlumber
I think you will find over time that the connection stays fairly constant over time, as it has over the last 100 years, until we get to Peak Oil, whenever you think that is. After that, all bets are off. My choice would be to tax fuel to a constant $6 a gallon, adjusted for inflation-deflation, going forward from here, but that’s just me.
But hey, whatever floats your little phony boat. Whatever gives you a jackalope to deflect from the actual subject at hand, right?
Aren’t you the guy who just yesterday said that you are out to keep your real views a secret? Well, keep doing that. It seems to be working for you. The less I know about your views, the better.
Comrade Stuck
Upon reading the long list of er.. outraged Liberal Blogs at Memerandum, it made me so relieved and happy to belong to a party that opposes itself while never missing a single opportunity to feed off it’s own emotions. All put to pen in the most loquacious terms.
It’s a good thing the wingnuts have numbers so low in congress from being bitch-slapped by the American electorate to the point of house arrest. Otherwise, they’d be fighting tooth and nail with democrats for the honor of opposing democrats. We should be grateful THAT didn’t happen, or else we’d be in real trouble.
sparky
ps: i DO think it is worthwhile letting Obama know that people are not happy with Warren. when it’s a genuine issue as opposed to a bullshit flap or out of context remark, it’s important that people be called on it. saying you are unhappy with a particular selection isn’t per se getting yourself in a twist because a challenge or a complaint is not ipso facto a bar. for example, i assume Geithner has the chops for secy of the treasury, but i sure want to see him explain WTF he’s been doing this fall. compare that with the Elian Gonzales/Holder silliness.
Phoebe
Tsulagi,
I get you completely. Totally. I think how I can endorse your position and grumble about the Warren thing, is that your decision was made by you and your wife, affecting really only you and your wife. Who am I to begrudge you family harmony? I don’t remotely want to.
Ok, I’m in a hurry, so this may not fit perfectly… what if you had a ten year old son or daughter with you, and the guy who sprinkled the water had tried to feel up this kid? Couldn’t you have got a different water-sprinkler? I dunno..
Roland Charlemagne
Its not a slap in the face at all.
Its an effort at inclusion instead of the all to common practice of exclusion.
I for one have been a great admirer of Obama’s even handed approach to just about everything from cabinet positions to inaugural speakers.
Obama knows he no longer just represents Democrats or liberals, he represents ALL Americans.
fidget
Regarding Warren, Digby’s thinking on the matter is worth noting, to wit –
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2008/09/building-their-own-left-by-digby-fred.html
Andrew
Again, does anyone care to address the fact that Warren has recently been advocating pre-emptive war with Iran?
The guy should be disqualified because he’s a raging homophobe, but he should be even more disqualified because he’s a raging idiot.
What the fuck does it mean to compromise with the folks who want armageddon?
gex
I think this comment (stolen from Ezra Klein’s blog) sums it up best:
bago
I am an aspiring, yet continually failing breeder. It’s downright tragic. Sexy Tragic.
Tsulagi
@BP in MN:
Could have a point there. About Dem politicians, anyway. However if a Warren invocation is the liberal and/or Dem idea of target selection, they suck at it.
cleek
Warren isn’t going to be giving a speech about invading Iran. he’s not going to be setting a policy agenda. he’s gonna do a little bit of boilerplate feel-good prayerizing, and then it’ll be over.
i don’t like it either, but really, this is a tiny tiny thing, in the grand scheme of things.
Andrew
Another problem is that this is indicative of the ever-lacking Democratic backbone. We’ll roll over on anything to please right wing assholes! Lieberman, Warren, whoever.
Look it, you fucking won. Try acting like it.
Tsulagi
@Phoebe:
Yes, as the feeler priest would have then been occupied finding out if his afterlife theory was correct.
Doug H. (Comrade Fausto no more)
That strategery worked for me, it’ll work for you too!
Sincerely,
President George W. Bush
libarbarian
@JR
Jesus Christ! How does one respond to this kind of Delusion?
No. I’m going to stick around. Sorry if you don’t like it, but too bad.
Rainy
So did Hillary and McCain, but he brings them on board as well. I guess that means Obama likes to be fucked.
Andrew
Republican extremism is not balanced out by Democratic pussyfooting, even though Harry Reid seems to think so.
Andrew
I agree. That’s silly.
But the issue here is that Obama is tweaking the left when there is absolutely no good reason to do so.
At least Bush’s right wing maximalism energized his supporters.
John Cole
BTW, this guy is giving the Benediction.
cleek
something like this needs a spiffy name; maybe "Operation Leper" (unless that’s been used somewhere else already) ?
Laura W
Ouch.
Grendel72
Honestly, I voted for Obama, and I’m glad I did. I’d vote for him again. I’m sure the vast majority of us who are pissed off at his choice of this fucking bigoted moron are in agreement on this.
That doesn’t change the fact that it is fucking disgusting and insulting, and it doesn’t change the fact that every single one of you motherfuckers telling us to "get over it" are assholes.
The very fact that you can say a bigoted moron like Rick Warren is "moderate" demonstrates that the religious right are to be dismissed rather than pandered to. This is how it started for the Republican party, and the cancer of religious ignorance has completely destroyed them from the inside out now.
John Cole
@cleek: Ya know, Cleek, I would read your website more if you didn’t file everything under “uncategorized.”
Comrade Stuck
@JR:
That would be the other side of stupid and it’s called the land of Ideological Dogma. Two teams play there, one right, one left, and both dumb as sledgemammers. No thanks, but knock yerself out and take my spot if you want. And it sounds like you want, a lot. And take the rest of the kindred spirit fools with ye, then maybe the rest of us can get about changing things for the better in America. Not everything, and not all at once. But democratically.
Grendel72
And to repeat again, for the stupid: it is not "inclusion" to pander to bigots. Are you fucking assholes going to claim now that it’s exclusionary for Obama not to have a spokesman for the KKK on stage with him?
Comrade Stuck
@Andrew:
LOL
At least Obama’s right wing maximalism only exists in the fevered imaginations of a few left wing wingnuts. Therein lies the difference.
Andrew
That came out wrong, I guess. I meant Bush’s right wing maximalism versus Obama’s soft left tilt.
Again, the issue is that Obama can be moderate and inclusive without doing minor things like this that really piss off some of his supporters, so what good reason is there?
Cyrus
Less than 24 hours after announcing that a bigoted creationist would be speaking at his inauguration, Obama announced a gay Secretary of the Navy and a Latina with a glowing record with the AFL-CIO to Labor. I’m not saying Obama is using Warren for bipartisan cover for a radically left-wing agenda, that’s ridiculous… but if he was, this is what it would look like.
libarbarian
Yes, Gays get bashed and sometimes face Klan-like violence, but not by the likes of Rick Warren.
Comparing Warren to the KKK moves me as much as comparisons of Obama to Lenin. The analogy is so bad it only makes me more skeptical of the vision and judgment of the person making it.
demimondian
@Fencedude:
Actually, that’s why I use the term, since FDDD and I three time breeders. I figure it’s an example of reclaiming a term.
demimondian
@Cyrus: Indeed. I wonder what this does to DADT?
"That’s *Secretary of Navy* Faggot to you, Petty Officer Jones. And I expect a real salute. Seaman Jones."
Grendel72
Comparing Warren to the KKK moves me as much as comparisons of Obama to Lenin. The analogy is so bad it only makes me more skeptical of the vision and judgment of the person making it.
OK, I’ll be sure to ask you when we’ve suffered enough violence to be allowed to complain about bigotry, then, Mr. Huckabee.
Shygetz
John Cole: "Obama is having Rick Warren give the invocation at his inauguration. What do you commenters think about it?"
Commenters: "Well, now that you mention it, I think it’s a bad idea for reasons X, Y, and Z."
John Cole: "OMG, you guys are throwing such a hissy fit! Where the f*ck did that come from? No one could have anticipated that, if asked your opinion, you assholes would actually give it to me! I miss being a Republican."
Comrade Stuck
@Andrew:
Because it is what he campaigned on, day after day, month after month. Inclusiveness. Not imposing a capital P Progressive Agenda by fiat. And now the people who voted for him are having seizures that he’s not doing what they want. It is OK to express disappointment, but dishonest to claim betrayal for carrying out what he told America he would due as POTUS, The Progressive Movement is not a majority in this country, a fact they often forget. Mostly progressive individual policies are what Obama promised and it is impossible for him to betray that until he’s the gulldern president.
Zuzu's Petals
@John Cole is a Pig:
Hint to trolls: try to come up with something a little more original and a little less dated than "breeder." I haven’t heard that one used in any seriousness in years. Why not just call him ungroovy?
Not to mention that my gay and lesbian friends who actually have bred children would have a good laugh.
libarbarian
Maybe some slogans to help.
Childlessness: The best way to give all your ancestors the middle-finger.
Childlessness: When the only way to help improve the genepool is by getting out entirely.
Childlessness: Some people WANT to die unloved and alone.
More to come….
Zuzu's Petals
Oops on the duplicate. Edited out.
Shygetz
Klan spokesmen generally aren’t very hands-on with the lynchings. They leave that to their congregations, er, footsoldiers.
IF he is, and IF it works, I will humbly bow to Obama’s genius. But my current opinion is if you think an invocation is going to buy off the Dominionists, you’re crazier than they are.
libarbarian
R. Warren committed violence against you?
Please tell me more.
Zuzu's Petals
@demimondian:
Nice point.
libarbarian
And R. Warren advocated violence against homosexuals, when exactly?
Shygetz
@libarbarian: They never directly advocate violence, either. That would be incitement, and they would be held legally responsible. They just talk about the evil Negro agenda, and how the poor white man is being persecuted by the Negro and Negro-lovers, and how good Christian men and women must defend God and country from the Negro threat.
Then they watch.
Tell me, did you support George Wallace? Because, you know, he never hanged no Negros, and he never directly advocated violence against them…at least, against those that were following the law. So he must be alright, huh?
Comrade Stuck
@Shygetz:
What bullshit. No one I’ve read here is claiming any such thing. If your going to just make shit up and level absurd charges, then you are just the flip side of the religion you love to debunk.
And comparing Warren to Klansmen falls into the same category of unadulterated bullshit. Get real for chrisakes.
Grendel72
Clearly anything short of an actual curb-stomping from Rick Warren himself is perfectly fine with some people. Man, that Rosa Parks was such a whiner.
The rest of us might acknowledge that the dehumanizing hatred spewed by religious nuts plays a large part in the violence faced by gay people in this country. When Rick Warren dishonestly proclaims his opposition to equal marriage rights is a free speech issue he is worried about "hate speech" laws because his bible doesn’t just say that gay people are wrong, the passage bigots of his ilk constantly quote explicitly commands believers to murder gays. If we take him at his word when he claims to follow every word of the bible literally, we have to acknowledge that the Bible quite explicitly calls for the murder of gay people.
Shygetz
@Comrade Stuck: I was responding to this claim:
And if you think that a mere invocation is going to give him cover from the Religious Right (which is the claim) then you’re nuts.
Duke of Earl
Would Obama invite somone to speak at his inauguration who said the same things about his own family or other black or mixed race families as Warren has said about gay families?
Warren is a homophobe, a sexist and a Dominionist who is adamantly opposed to secular government and wishes to see a Christianist theocracy in the USA. Obama is conferring added legitimacy on this person by inviting Warren to bless his inauguration.
That the first black POTUS in the history of this country makes such a tin-eared decision about an open bigot is most disheartening to me anyway, if any candidate in the history of the nation should understand how this would appear to his gay fellow citizens it would be Obama.
The thing is, I do think Obama knows how this appears to gays and those who support their battle for true equality, I think he just doesn’t give a damn.
Shygetz
What are the differences? Dehumanizing and eliminationist rhetoric? Check. Anti-homosexual violence perpetrated by the evangelical followers? C’mon, do I even need to provide a link? So tell me in detail–what part of the comparison is bullshit?
Oh yeah, I remember: bigotry against homosexuals is still socially accepted, which makes Rick Warren "respectable" and a KKK spokesman or David Duke "unrespectable".
Andrew
That’s just silly, no one thinks he should do that.
Here are the options: Inclusiveness that doesn’t involve pissing off a large part of the left, and inclusiveness that does piss off a large part of the left.
gex
Well, I happen to believe that homosexuality is natural and that gay pair bonding is fine and should be allowed into the institution of marriage. Warren believes that gay people are as bad as child rapists. Obama believes we should all just agree to disagree. Wheeeee!
Comrade Stuck
@Shygetz:
Dominionists are the most radical of radical people. That’s not to say there aren’t more than a few in America, but putting that label on Warren, and the KKK comparison is way over the line IMO. That was the crux of my remark. Most of the 50 or 60 million Evangelicals here don’t come close to being Dominionists. Out of bounds hyperbole is my complaint with the style your argument, that and thinking your wrong about just about everything you’ve said on this thread.
BH-Buck
Gex, careful… you’ll be labeled a wanker.
libarbarian
Oh, yes they fucking do. They’re not dumb enough to do it when the press is around, but they do it. Ask anyone who has left a hate-group, when the doors are closed they come out and say what they think.
Has ANYONE former member of Warren’s church even hinted that he advocated violence behind closed doors?
Lots of people talk about Group X’s agenda, and how good people are being oppressed and persecuted, and how the good people have to fight back against the evil members of Group X. Most of them are NOT advocating violence.
I mean, come on. Progressives talk all the time about how Republicans are evil bastards who are out to screw the good people of this country and how we have to fight back, but only the Malkin Wingnut Brigade interprets this as advocating violence against Republicans.
Comrade Stuck nailed it:
Grendel72
Dude, Rick Warren is a Dominionist. He has explicitly said on repeated occasions that he wants the law to reflect his religious beliefs, that non-religious people should not be allowed to hold office. That God wants us to assassinate foreign leaders.
What the fuck are you talking about pretending this asshole isn’t a Dominionist?
Joe
I agree with your basic argument, John, but I don’t think it’s right to characterize people’s emotions as wanking. People have had their rights taken away and / or are being discriminated against institutionally, and the president they worked hard to elect is actually slapping them in the face with this speech.
I agree that this is a small speech meant to marginalize people worse than Warren, and that Obama’s policies are more important than his speakers, but this isn’t just wanking. I think you’re on the wrong side on this one.
Andrew
Except for when they do directly advocate violence, like assassinating foreign leaders.
So, what’s next on the excuse list?
Comrade Stuck
@Andrew:
Well that’s just silly. Including more members of the Choir is not really inclusiveness, now is it. In politics, it means including your opponents as well. And if the "large part of the left" is going to get pissed off about something as silly as this, then we are going to have to build a lot of liberal fainting couches the next 4 to 8 years. It might even save the economy.
And being outraged that a Progressive Agenda isn’t being imposed by Obama is a silly argument? You are outraged that a defeated wingnut preacher is going to say a few words at the inaugaration — and that’s before the policy stuff has even begun.
Tim F.
If I had to say which public figure is more like a slap in the face, I would pick Jeff Goldstein.
Xecky Gilchrist
@libarbarian: Childlessness: Some people WANT to die unloved and alone.
Because no one with children ever has.
[eyeroll]
gex
@gex: I know, I know. I’m one of those hothouse flowers that just wilts when compared to a child rapist. Too sensitive, perhaps. Really, it’s a compliment!
It’s just that, well, I think that child rape is very, very, evilly wrong. Too repulsive to be equated with consensual homosexuality.
It seems to me that Christians who believe this to be true lack serious perspective on right and wrong if these two things stack up as equivalent.
Redneck Breeder
Ya know, I understand why GLBT people would be upset (I ain’t too happy with it myself), and I don’t blame them for it in the least. That said, I have to ask, what good do some think it will do to go off the far left cliff screaming that "Obama is a traitor and John Cole is a F**king PIG!"
Do you really want to change things? Or just show what self rightous victims you can be?
You have a point, make it in a reasoned and reasonable manner, and you just might make a few more allies. You want equal rights? Start by changing minds, and you don’t do that by screaming "HOMOPHOBE!" everytime you meet some one who is against gay marraige, you do it with an actual dialogue, a dialogue with people you don’t agree with and probably don’t like.
I am a Union Carpenter, and I deal with homophobes every day, but I am not going to get thru to them by getting my panties in a bunch every time I hear the words, "I hate faggots…" Sometimes it gets a little ugly, most times they just shut up and skulk away muttering under their breath, but every now and again, a reasoned discourse ensues and I am able to introduce a few new ideas. I have even succeeded in changing minds a time or 2. It ain’t much, but it accomplishes a lot more than screaming "John Cole is a F**king Pig!"
gex
@BH-Buck: That last post was supposed to be a response to this, not to myself. See, now you all have me talking to myself!
Comrade Stuck
@Grendel72:
Please provide links for your claims. Warren is an Evangelical Christian who believes the law should reflect the bible’s teachings (and to a degree they already do). That is different than openly promoting a takeover of secular government and setting fire to our Constitution and replacing it with the Bible and subjugating non Christians . I may be wrong about Warren not being that extreme, and I neither like him, his beliefs, or trust him, but prove to me he is is a true Dominionist.
Davebo
Joe,
No one has had their rights taken way. They never had those rights to begin with.
demimondian
@Xecky Gilchrist: You mean…my kids will grow up and…they won’t cuddle me like they did when they were babies?
Oh. Wait. The oldest already has, and I’m incredibly lucky to still hear from him regularly.
John Cole
@Redneck Breeder: Well, in fairness, I am kind of a dick and say some pretty obnoxious things, so it isn’t like I am actually fostering reasoned discussion here. I have to be polite all day to people, so I can get vulgar and rude here at times.
Isn’t that what the internet is for?
demimondian
@libarbarian: Feh. There are lots of good reasons to be childless by choice. I’m not, but the fact that I’m a breeder doesn’t make my moral choices any more or less valid than those of someone who chose differently.
Xecky Gilchrist
@demimondian: the fact that I’m a breeder doesn’t make my moral choices any more or less valid than those of someone who chose differently.
Thank you.
I am childless by choice and tired of hearing how selfish and conceited that makes me – from people whose ancestors and genetics are so amazing that the world would just dry up and blow away without their precious kids in it.
Laura W
@demimondian: I’m onto you now.
You’re just baiting me, aren’t you?
Cats Not Kids
Grendel72
I realize how trying it must be to type the phrase "Rick Warren dominionism" into Google, but if you were to do such a thing you would find many examples. I realize, it’s much easier to dismiss the concerns of a bunch of whining faggots who totally have nothing to complain about.
Don’t worry, smile along as the Democratic party follows in the footsteps of the Republican party by embracing the cancer of Religious intolerance and idiocy.
Comrade Stuck
@John Cole:
Not me, I’m sweet as Tupelo Honey allll the time. Just ask Santa when he comes to town. Be good for goodness sake is our motto at the Funhouse, excepting Halloween, of course.
gil mann
If we’re going to fight like a bunch of cats in a burlap sack, could we maybe listen to each other? I’m firmly in the slap-in-the-face camp on this one and even I can see how totally goddamn obvious it is that the other side understands, and is sympathetic to, gay umbrage.
And no, you can’t name your band "Gay Umbrage." I called it and it’s mine.
Laura W
@Xecky Gilchrist:
Ooooo Ooooo, call on me. I have one!
When my dad knew he was dying of inoperable lung cancer back in ’95, he wrote me a letter (‘cuz that’s how my family rolls) and told me he was changing his will. No longer would my brother and I split our inheritance 50/50, but 60/40 (me not being the 60% person).
"Your brother has four kids to care for, and you just have you."
OUCH.
Had I known that marrying a guy with two previous kids, and then having two of my own, would’ve garnered me more money, I would’ve so done it!! I did have 5 cats at that time, but clearly, CATS are not KIDS.
Thinking about that tonight, I am outraged.
(David Shuster’s Headline:
UPROAR ON THE LEFT.)
OK, I am uproared by my father’s decision about how to divvy up his own money. Breeder bigot.
demimondian
@Xecky Gilchrist: Heh. Well, I have the advantage of knowing that I carry a serious genetic disease, and that half of my children will share it with me. So there were really good reasons for me to *not* father children, and it might well have been better us to have adopted.
Then again, the world *would* dry up and blow away without my precious kids in it…or didn’t you know?
Comrade Stuck
@Grendel72:
Well, I did, and what I found are a bunch of people claiming this like you, with scant evidence he is promoting taking over the Govment and Constitution to impose the Biblical version of Sharia law, which is what true Dominionists want. It’s true that many of the Bible beliefs are the same with average Evangelicals, but without the militant part. When and if they do become, or call for violence and force to gain power, then I’ll be with you. They are allowed their beliefs until then.
i do hope your momma took away all the sharp objects in your room.
demimondian
@Laura W: Interestingly, my folks will also be divvying up their estate unequally — our childless sister who has lived with them (by choice) will get a larger share. She needs it more than any of the rest of us, who made very different life choices.
Xecky Gilchrist
@demimondian: Then again, the world would dry up and blow away without my precious kids in it…or didn’t you know?
Well, the world is certainly a poorer place because I have no offspring. :)
My reasoning is partly genetic but mostly because I know I would make a piss-poor dad, and the world doesn’t need more kids with bad parents.
Duke of Earl
@Comrade Stuck:
That is the essence of Dominionism, that the law should be written according to some person’s interpretation of Christian scripture. Since scripture is vague, contradictory and ultimately open to a nearly infinite number of interpretations what Dominionism essentially means is that the government will be run as the powerful theists want.
People pretty much take away from scripture whatever they bring to it, if you are a humble, gentle, loving soul you will find scripture to support your feelings. On the other hand if you are an arrogant social dominator with a god complex, you’ll find scriptural support for that too. The great majority of powerful theists in America today fall firmly into the latter camp, IMO.
John Cole
Did someone here express any love for Warren? Anyone? Because pretty clearly, I think people here disagree, and rather strongly, with Warren.
Or could you just not control yourself, and had to use the phrase “whining faggots” in an attempt to pretend that we are merely dismissing everyone’s concerns because we are straight haters?
Just so we are clear, we all understand why some people are really pissed off about this selection. We just think it is being blown out of proportion- for most people across the country, Warren is little more than a guy who runs a mega-church and wrote a book that keeps getting stuck in stockings and mailed to relatives on birthdays, and it is not an all out assault on the dignity of gays, but a nod to the portion off the country who probably didn’t vote for Obama.
And really, is this news? Has there been a pro-gay marriage giving the invocation EVER? On the other hand, the guy giving the Benediction is very openly supportive of gay marriage, and I doubt that has ever happened before. That is called progress.
Laura W
Bingo.
Xecky Gilchrist
@Laura W: OK, I am uproared by my father’s decision about how to divvy up his own money. Breeder bigot.
I’m sorry about what happened to you.
At least you’re uproared by a decision that had an effect on you, instead of sneering at someone who makes a lifestyle choice that has no bearing on your life at all.
Xecky Gilchrist
@Laura W: Did somebody say Bingo?
With the disclaimer that I’m not that wound about it. I mean, I happily pay taxes for schools and everything, being a mushy socialist and all.
eric
it is clear to me that Warren’s invocation will bring about the end times. Good lord almighty! Here is the funny part: many of you would be happy with a gay-friendly preacher who beleives that non-believers are going to hell. Um, no thanks. Or perhaps, a gay-friendly preacher taht believes that mroal action can only occur when motivated by faith in a righteous and just god. Nonsense.
The sort of religion that people believe in the US (and for most of the world) is exclusionary by nature. I am offended by Warren on many levels.
He is not a dominionist in the way that word describes folks like the Dominos pizza loon
Patrick ONeill
Fierce advocate my ass – no one that opposes equal rights for gays (and yes, marriage IS a "right") can claim to be an advocate of anything.
Obama is just less of a bigot that McCain – if anyone thinks he will actually DO anything about DOMA or DADT they are fooling themselves.
Comrade Stuck
@Duke of Earl:
I don’t disagree, although I think the vast majority of their followers would not accept the forced end result of what Domionists want, and the rest of religious America certainly would not. But believing Warren is that far to the religious right in advocating that type of sedition and providing evidence he is is what I’m talking about.
Purple State Pundit
@DougJ:
I’m sorry, but this is ridiculous. Clinton would probably have won Arkansas and West Virginia and maybe Missouri and Kentucky (I doubt Kentucky), but she would not have won Indiana or North Carolina and she may not have won Virginia. When they were both still running she was also weaker in Colorado and Nevada. And your argument about the Senate is ridiculous…several seats were in play in part because of an increased African American turnout. Without Obama on top of the ticket the DSCC may not have taken Kay Hagen seriously, and would not have been able to force the Republicans to spend money on Mississippi and Georgia, leaving them money they could have put into Oregon and Minnesota. If you have any doubts about Obama’s impact on the Senate races look at the difference between Georgia on Election Night and Georgia a month later without Obama on the ballot. I’d like to know which Senate seats you think we lost that we would have won with Hillary at the top of the ticket.
Laura W
@Xecky Gilchrist: Wow. I really need to stop drinking red wine, eating (Watson & Dietz, NY aged cheddar with Horseradish, LOOK for it!) cheese, muting MSNBC, and trying to post here.
I was "kidding" about what happened to me. I made out fine.
I honestly don’t know what or who that refers back to.
OH. Maybe it refers to you. I hope so.
If so, I am sorry about people who sneer at you.
(Did I get all that right? I’ll go pour some more wine while I try to figure it out.)
Laura W
@Xecky Gilchrist: Omidog. That is SO Funny! I wish I’d created that.
I had a gal pal back in 91 (with a very precocious girl child that they insisted accompany four adults EVERYWHERE, much to my dismay) insist that "You owe it to the world to raise a girl child."
We no longer speak.
New baby smell indeed.
Duke of Earl
@Comrade Stuck:
By the time the Dominionists get what they want it will be far too late for anyone to back out, theocracies are the very worst form of government and some of the most difficult to get rid of once in place.
Warren himself has said that the difference between himself and Dobson is only one of tone. What more proof do you need than his own words?
I wish I could see the rest of religious America standing up against the Dominionist wannabes, but apparently Christians have an eleventh commandment like that of the Republicans.
It seems that the moderate theists in America leave all the heavy lifting of fighting the would be theocrats to the non religious.
Grendel72
It’s bad enough we have this sort of hoodoo ritual at a government event to begin with, but to have this ass backwards lunatic performing it is just disgusting.
Here’s what I find most disgusting about this whole thing- Obama belongs to a denomination that supports and affirms gays. When the media douchebags got in a tizzy over Jeremiah Wright, one reason the faux outrage pissed me off so much was the fact that Wright’s church is demonstrably less hateful than the vast majority of churches in this country. All Obama had to do was select a minister from his professed denomination, and this could have been avoided.
So this isn’t the biggest deal in the world, it’s still fucking insulting and assholish for you fucking morons to tell gay people to get over it. Why don’t you motherfuckers get over the fact that people are going to take offense at this?
Some of us don’t want to be like the Republicans who went along with every stupid abuse of power the current president forced through. If you really want to belong to that sort of party you should have just remained a Republican.
Do you think Obama would have made any public statement supportive of gay rights in even the half-assed manner he has done if we didn’t hold his feet to the fire?
demimondian
@Duke of Earl: Feh to you, too.
Go look at the name — and, more importantly, the title — of the head of Americans United for the Separation of Church and State. We’re here; we just don’t wear our religion on our sleeves. Praying on street corners, and all that.
Xecky Gilchrist
@Laura W: I honestly don’t know what or who that refers back to.
Sorry, I wasn’t being clear. I mean the people who’ve given me trouble over not having kids. Utah, where I live, is child-worship central and it gets a bit cloying.
However, as a man, I catch much, much less shit over it than women do. Which is just yet another shithead sexist thing about it all.
demimondian
@Grendel72: Dude…nobody is saying to get over it.
Seriously. Take a deep breath.
John et al. question our tactics, not our goals. Sometimes, we need to give people the space to differ with us — nobody thinks we shouldn’t be pissed or offended. They’re only asking if the chest beating serves any purpose any more.
Face it, Obama was forced to speak to the issue at a press conference. He may well have just Sistah Soljah’d us, for all I know, but he got the message, loud and clear, that Warren’s beliefs are toxic to his coalition. He’ll think about that, if only because he’s no fool
Laura W
@Xecky Gilchrist:
No problem. I re-read it all; took some deep, cleansing, belly breaths; did some active imagination envisioning that I really did know what you meant; kept my focal point; tried not to push too hard to understand; and…well…I popped it out!
Laborious as it was.
Bingo!
demimondian
@Laura W: Remember, you forget the pain of labor and delivery.
Otherwise, no woman would ever have sex after she bore her first child.
Joe Lisboa
DougJ (and his lackeys) makes me want to stick an eyeball in my fork. Or the other way around, but I can’t even tell anymore, what with all the self-righteous piss’n’vinegar and baby-wailin’ going around. Give it a fucking rest already, you twits, and grow a pair. It’s going to be a long four years with you all stinking up the joint.
Comrade Stuck
@Duke of Earl:
Your medal is in the mail, with a straw man attached to it.
gizmo
I’d be OK with Obama doing the outreach thing with Rick Warren if he was doing the same with a flaming lefty on Jan. 20. If he is comfortable having a rightwing bigot onstage for his inauguration ceremony, then we are owed some balance. When I see that happen, then I’ll dance and sing kumbayah too….
Comrade Stuck
@gizmo:
He is Gizmo, from a Cole comment
@John Cole:
Laura W
@Comrade Stuck: I’m sure it’s the Aussie Shiraz talkin’ here (and I can already feel the pellet guns aimed in my direction), but why don’t you take Michael D’s place on BJ?
I mean, you’re here all the time anyway.
You seem to be (mostly) on point and on topic.
You appear (to me) to be knowledgeable across a wide range of topics.
You’re often funny.
You’re not horribly cruel and seem to be pretty "fair and balanced" (although you might need to modulate your aggression down just a notch, perhaps, with your new powers. Don’t feed trolls, engage in pissing wars as much, etc.)
(You can send the check to the agreed-upon PO Box.)
Duke of Earl
@Comrade Stuck:
Hit a nerve, eh?
Comrade Stuck
@Laura W:
Thank you Laura for the suggestion. And the rest of your compliments. My aggression has been on a steady decline since the 2006 election, but could go a little further down. Even if I were asked by Cole, not likely, I;m afraid such an assignment would become too much like work and commenting here is too much fun. And I fear I would begin taking myself too seriously and ruin that fun, and it’s therapeutic effect. Besides, my spelling and grammar are on par with 6th graders. :)
Comrade Stuck
@Duke of Earl:
Yep, Teh Funny Bone one.
Hyperion
@Shygetz:
thank you!
John Cole is a Pig
I wasn’t trolling, you hetero pig f*ckers. And I was calling fairweather liberal c*nts like you breeders long before you figured out what that word means. If you think I’m trolling do a google search on Hodges and Hutter and do some reading. At least homophobic Republicans are up front about what they support. With straight liberals it’s always the tolerant glove covering the homophobic fist.
Hyperion
@Duke of Earl:
oh, noes, another angry leftist screaming about a slap-in-the-face ;=)
most disheartening…yeah, i agree…but i’m NOT screaming.
Hyperion
@Comrade Stuck:
how about that as the basis of a secular "religion"?
Hyperion
@Joe Lisboa:
FYI DougJ might be B-J’s spoof0.
so don’t get too lathered up
Broken
These Warren threads make me think the Rightwing trolls are all pretending to be gays so they can throw shit at Obama. Hard to tell the difference.
Zuzu's Petals
@John Cole is a Pig:
Sure you weren’t.
You are one groovy hepcat, that’s for sure.
Cain
Boy, what is with Obama and his choice of pastors? They all seem so…controversial. :-)
I guess we have to agree to disagree. For me the end result is what matters. Ceremony is really just garbage. I’ll admit that the more I read about the guy the more disgusted I am. But in the name of political expediency, I’ll take a wait and see approach. He’s taking a gamble that he’ll be able to pass gay legislation. Once he does most of you are going to forget about the whole damn thing.
sri
ps crap I posted on the wrong thread.. meh.
mey
I want Reverand Wright to give the invocation. Why not Wright & Warren together? That’d be super-inclusive and cover both sides!
ImJohnGalt
I’ll never understand the homosexual obsession with fists.
John Cole is a Pig
And there you go. The asshole heterosexuals at it again.
ImJohnGalt
And with that, I win the over/under on provoking the expected response.
Since you’re so dead-set on considering us your enemies, I thought I’d provide a convenient target. I just wanted to provide validation for your pre-conceived and immutable opinion.
You’re welcome.
MH
Perhaps gays would care less about fists if they weren’t getting punched in the face all the damn time. That does have a tendency to focus the mind, you know.
charlie
This press conference sent me over the edge. Obama rightly states he has been a fierce advocate for gay equality. However in the next sentence he says he "intends" to continue that advocacy. Anyone who follows politics knows the word "intend" is the ultimate wiggle word. The LGBT community can expect no action on anti-gay discrimination, hate crimes legisalation, gays in the military and DOMA. All of which he promised during the campaign. I guess I misunderstood Obama when he said he stood for change. I assumed he meant a change from the venality and mendacity of the past 16 years. The only change I see is a total repudiation of the LGBT community.