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You are here: Home / Politics / Media / Greenwald On Moyers

Greenwald On Moyers

by John Cole|  December 14, 200810:26 am| 89 Comments

This post is in: Media, Politics, Outrage, Republican Crime Syndicate - aka the Bush Admin.

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Rather than watch David Gregory on MTP, I would recommend you pour a cup of coffee and watch Glenn Greenwald on Bill Moyers:

David Gregory will be an hour long rehash of congratulatory gibberish and conventional wisdom, while Greenwald is saying something different and important. And, as Larison and others have noted, it is exceedingly depressing that our media is consumed by bribery attempts by a second rate crook, but completely silent about reports of outright lawlessness. I am willing to bet anything that Senate report will not be discussed at all on MTP, while Blagojevich and the “problems” he poses for Obama will get 45 minutes of the hour long show. Crooks and Liars highlights a relevant portion of the Moyers piece:

What you have is a two-tiered system of justice where ordinary Americans are subjected to the most merciless criminal justice system in the world. They break the law. The full weight of the criminal justice system comes crashing down upon them. But our political class, the same elites who have imposed that incredibly harsh framework on ordinary Americans, have essentially exempted themselves and the leaders of that political class from the law.

They have license to break the law. That’s what we’re deciding now as we say George Bush and his top advisors shouldn’t be investigated let alone prosecuted for the laws that we know that they’ve broken. And I can’t think of anything more damaging to our country because the rule of law is the lynchpin of everything we have.

Depressing, and while I understand why an Obama administration may not desire to pursue investigations of criminality, I disagree strongly with it. Right now, legally and economically, we are two different nations (sound familiar)? The status quo is untenable.

*** Update ***

And no more than ten minutes after I post this, I check memeorandum and find this story in Newsweek about the man who blew the whistle on the NSA’s illegal behavior. The title and subtitle to the Isikoff piece:

“The Fed Who Blew the Whistle: Is he a hero or a criminal?”

I am at a loss to provide a clearer example of what is wrong with our corrupt Washington establishment and their lackeys in the media.

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Reader Interactions

89Comments

  1. 1.

    El Cid

    December 14, 2008 at 10:55 am

    I thought Glenn did a fantastic job on the Moyers show. I think Moyers was impressed too.

  2. 2.

    Jon H

    December 14, 2008 at 11:05 am

    It’s depressing that it’s far more likely that I will be awakened at 4 am by the guns and flash-bang grenades of a wrong-address SWAT raid, than that Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, and Feith will be awakened by correct-address raids.

  3. 3.

    Michael D.

    December 14, 2008 at 11:10 am

    Glenn is hot! Much cuter than that cartoon on Salon!

    AMIRITE!?

  4. 4.

    Juan del Llano

    December 14, 2008 at 11:21 am

    their lackey’s in the media

    Say it isn’t so. Tell me you haven’t succumbed to trailer-park-culture spelling conventions…

  5. 5.

    John Cole

    December 14, 2008 at 11:26 am

    @Juan del Llano: It is Sunday morning and I have graded over 100 papers in the last two days.

    I am surprised I still know the difference between there and their and they’re.

  6. 6.

    dbrown

    December 14, 2008 at 11:33 am

    The crimes that bush the cock-sucker, cheney the bloody asshole and all the other ass licking henchmen in the admin are so extreme that few americans are willing to come to terms with these events since they know that they too supported these criminal child killers. Worse, the media that cheered these murdering devils on would never write about these war criminals being brought to justice or that they should be brought to justice. The stain on the whore media is worse than Lady Macbeth.

  7. 7.

    Scutch

    December 14, 2008 at 11:39 am

    It is time to rename the wingnut blogosphere the "Blagojesphere."

  8. 8.

    bago

    December 14, 2008 at 11:47 am

    Claiming it’s all about the "jago" is something else entirely.

  9. 9.

    Incertus

    December 14, 2008 at 11:52 am

    @John Cole: Half my students this term don’t seem to be able to tell the difference between woman and women. Blows my mind. But I only have about 50 more to go, and they have to be done today because grades are due tomorrow, and the bitterness will fade.

  10. 10.

    The Grand Panjandrum

    December 14, 2008 at 12:13 pm

    @Incertus:

    … and the bitterness will fade.

    … he said clinging to his red marking pen and Norton’s Anthology.

  11. 11.

    SGEW

    December 14, 2008 at 12:14 pm

    Half my students this term don’t seem to be able to tell the difference between woman and women.

    That could be quite a problem.

  12. 12.

    Reverend Dennis

    December 14, 2008 at 12:15 pm

    I am at a loss to provide a clearer example of what is wrong with our corrupt Washington establishment and their lackeys in the media.

    Here’s a clearer example:
    House Democrat urges Obama to to keep Bush’s intelligence chiefs

    The House Intelligence Committee’s top Democrat said Tuesday he has recommended that President-elect Barack Obama keep the country’s current national intelligence director and CIA chief in place for some time to ensure continuity in U.S. intelligence programs during the transition to a new administration.

    Intelligence Chairman Silvestre Reyes, D-Texas, said he also recommended to Obama’s transition team that some parts of the CIA’s controversial alternative interrogation program should be allowed to continue. He declined to say what he specifically recommended, however.

    Reyes was hand picked by Nancy Pelosi for the chair of the Intelligence Committee, by-passing the equally odiious Jane Harman.

  13. 13.

    Crusty Dem

    December 14, 2008 at 12:20 pm

    Isikoff is still a journalist? I guess the MSM didn’t get rid of any of their grade A panty-sniffers from the 90’s. Has he written anything of note since then?

    I will say in Isikoff’s defense, the editor usually selects the title, so we may be criticizing the wrong moron. This guy’s life has been destroyed because he tried to stop something that’s wrong. A whistleblower is almost never acting in their own personal best interests. That anyone outside of Michelle Malkin would come up with that headline is unbelievable..

  14. 14.

    Redhand

    December 14, 2008 at 12:24 pm

    They have license to break the law. That’s what we’re deciding now as we say George Bush and his top advisors shouldn’t be investigated let alone prosecuted for the laws that we know that they’ve broken. And I can’t think of anything more damaging to our country because the rule of law is the lynchpin of everything we have.

    Above and beyond all the other damage that Bushco has caused this country, this is the worst.

    Greenwald is right that the Democratic Congress was shamefully complicit in this.

    The best we can hope for, I believe, is a sharp post-9/11 Commission on the abuses.

    Man do I want to see that criminal cocksucker David Addingon publicly excoriated, humiliated and (wish, wish) prosecuted. Same with Yoo. As lawyers they bear a very special culpability for these crimes.

    As bad as Gonzo was, too, Mukasey is even more pathetic in a way. One just knew that Gonzo was a clown. But Muk’s bleatings about not "criminalizing policy differences" show that he also doesn’t know his ass from a hole in the ground about the law. And to think that he was a federal judge! Scary.

  15. 15.

    D-Chance.

    December 14, 2008 at 12:25 pm

    Two interesting takes… "Bush makes farewell visit to Iraq" (Reuters)

    President George W. Bush made an unannounced farewell visit to Baghdad on Sunday, just weeks before he leaves office and bequeaths the unpopular Iraq war to President-elect Barack Obama.

    Bush flew secretly to the Iraqi capital to hold talks with Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki and address a rally of U.S. troops.

    "Bush has come to meet Iraqi leaders, thank the troops and celebrate the new security agreement," a White House official said.

    Alan Colmes, with the right questions on his blog: If Iraq Is Doing So Well, Why Does Bush Have To Visit In Secret? Shouldn’t “The Great Liberator” be hailed as a returning hero and given a parade?

    and Jules Crittenden: Victory Lap.

  16. 16.

    Tony J

    December 14, 2008 at 12:26 pm

    Wait a minute. (rubs eyes)

    Did I just see an actual interview where the host asked actual questions of his guest and then allowed him the time to answer them fully?

    And the guest wasn’t a right-wing mouthpiece?

    And you people said there were no ponies to be had. That’s a pony right there. I’m going to call her Starburst.

  17. 17.

    Crusty Dem

    December 14, 2008 at 12:31 pm

    Jules Crittenden is the king of crazy/stupid. also from his front page:

    Senate Blames White House

    For abuses, not individual soldiers. I’m more inclined to blame al Qaeda for the uncomfortable circumstances in which detainees find themselves. The global jihad/worldwide terror campaign was their idea in the first place.

    Isn’t the implication that we are creating our own terror network to replace al Qaeda? Is he a secret Chomskyite?

  18. 18.

    AhabTRuler, V

    December 14, 2008 at 12:38 pm

    Man do I want to see that criminal cocksucker David Addingon publicly excoriated, humiliated and (wish, wish) prosecuted. Same with Yoo.

    Word.

  19. 19.

    Mike

    December 14, 2008 at 12:41 pm

    I think Charles Dickens wrore the Newsweek piece:

    After the raid, Justice Department prosecutors encouraged Tamm to plead guilty to a felony for disclosing classified information—an offer he refused. More recently, Agent Lawless, a former prosecutor from Tennessee, has been methodically tracking down Tamm’s friends and former colleagues.

  20. 20.

    demimondian

    December 14, 2008 at 12:47 pm

    @John Cole: They’re’s a differents?

  21. 21.

    TheHatOnMyCat

    December 14, 2008 at 12:56 pm

    Two things. One, I’m glad you put up the videos because I missed the broadcast and wanted to see this segment.

    Two, while I agree with GG in principle in terms of his concern for the rule of law and the lawlessness of officials, I don’t agree that the remedy is to drill down into the stinky details of, say, the Bush administration and the aftermath of 911.

    I believe that these transgressions are the tip of a much larger iceberg, namely, the complete abandonment of congressional responsibility to declare wars and control the effectualizing of war. Moyers had guests a year or two ago who basically said, precedent such as by condonation is not an excuse for extraconstitutional behavior. In other words, the fact that we have ignored this, and even passed a dishonest thing called the War Powers Act to put sugary icing on it, the fact is that we still have a constitutional responsibility to see that congress decides whether to have a war, and fully embraces that responsibility.

    Once we shrug our shoulders at war powers, as we have done, it seems to me that FISA and torture and other details are just going to get shunted aside and all the power given to the executive to do whatever it wants …. in other words, what you have now.

    I’d focus on the big problem and solve it, rather than focussing on the symptoms of the big problem. The big problem is that we have gone outside the Constitution in our handling of war powers.

    Bush didn’t invent the extraconstitutional presidency. He just rode a wave. If I were out to get somebody I might start with the Dulles Brothers, or others who decided the Cold War was reason enough to throw the great document under the bus. Alas, the Dulles Brothers are dead.

    The entire charade of congress members voting for … whatever version of Iraq powers they want to claim they were voting for (I was only voting to give him authority, not to actually have a war) becomes impossible when the constitution is followed. If congress declares war, it means they expect war, and there is clarity, and accountability. We don’t have that now.

    The remedy should focus on the constitution, not on Bush.

  22. 22.

    TheHatOnMyCat

    December 14, 2008 at 12:58 pm

    Sorry about the errors of composition in the previous post, but the post edit doesn’t work. I can’t fix it.

  23. 23.

    breschau

    December 14, 2008 at 1:01 pm

    Well, I would have watched Glenn this morning if I hadn’t watched him Friday night. MTP wasn’t horrible, but yes – half of it was Blago. The other half on the auto bailout and the economy was interesting – since they included a quote from the Gov. of Michigan calling Senate Repubs "un-American", and Mitt actually said that increasing gov’t spending was needed to get out of a recession (nice to hear a Repub actually say that out loud).

    Glenn was great on Moyers, but it’s a shame that you need a full 20 minute segment just to cover how truly screwed up this whole situation is, and just how much unbelievable shit the Bush Administration actually got away with. Compare this with his appearance on the Rachel Maddow Show – you can’t just cover it all in 5-7 minutes on a cable news show.

  24. 24.

    Tony J

    December 14, 2008 at 1:02 pm

    Alan Colmes, with the right questions on his blog: If Iraq Is Doing So Well, Why Does Bush Have To Visit In Secret? Shouldn’t “The Great Liberator” be hailed as a returning hero and given a parade?

    Sort of sums it all up, doesn’t it?

    There wasn’t a single spot in Iraq considered safe enough for the Great Liberator to stand in and give a televised speech. Not even in the heart of the Green Zone.

    And yet you’ll still find wingnuts insisting that Teh Surge won the war and Iraq is a great success.

    That’s one big ass bubble those people live in.

  25. 25.

    D-Chance.

    December 14, 2008 at 1:13 pm

    Ah, greeted as liberators with candy and flowers… eh, not so much:

    A man threw his shoes at President George W. Bush and was dragged away by security officials during the president’s farewell trip to Iraq.

    The incident occurred as Bush was appearing Sunday with Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki.

    Bush ducked and wasn’t hit by either shoe. Bush joked, saying that all he can report was that it was a size 10 shoe. then calmly took questions.

  26. 26.

    Jennifer

    December 14, 2008 at 1:31 pm

    @Scutch:

    It is time to rename the wingnut blogosphere the "Blagojesphere."

    Personally, I find "Blagojagoff" much easier to pronounce than his actual name.

    More accurate, too.

  27. 27.

    USA Patriot

    December 14, 2008 at 1:44 pm

    …the laws that we know that they’ve broken…

    First the verdict, then the trial. Very Soviet.

    But defending America from terrorists isn’t illegal, yet.

    @John Cole:
    "and I have graded over 100 papers in the last two days"

    Really? This puerile hack was actually hired to teach other people? The education system really is screwed up. Another good argument for vouchers and home-schooling.

  28. 28.

    USA Patriot

    December 14, 2008 at 1:48 pm

    @dbrown, your aluminum foil hat is on waaay too tight. LOL

  29. 29.

    USA Patriot

    December 14, 2008 at 1:53 pm

    @D-Chance.: One guy dissents and that means what exactly? Obviously you wish Saddam was still there to feed dissenters into a wood chipper…

  30. 30.

    John Cole

    December 14, 2008 at 1:54 pm

    Your troll-fu is weak today, Patriot.

  31. 31.

    Tonal Crow

    December 14, 2008 at 1:56 pm

    Because we have perverted the law, we no longer respect it. Thus, for example, the "get tough" policies of the War on Drugs — which treat as a serious felony our need occasionally to reach altered states of consciousness — have groomed us to consider truly serious felonies — such as Bush’s crimes — as trivial.

    We need completely to survey our statute-books, repeal the "there ought’a be a law" crap, and evenhandedly enforce the rest.

    P.S. Post editing is very broken. You cannot add strikethrough tags using it.

  32. 32.

    USA Patriot

    December 14, 2008 at 1:59 pm

    @Tonal Crow: Unlike Clinton, Bush hasn’t committed any crimes. Defending America is not a crime.

  33. 33.

    Tonal Crow

    December 14, 2008 at 2:08 pm

    The Big Lie (n.) A postmodern rhetorical technique used to escape responsibility for crimes or incompetence. In The Big Lie, the person needing escape tells a whopper so greasy, fat, and dripping, that ordinary folks reason that it must be true because they personally would never dare to say such a thing unless it were true. Frequent use of The Big Lie by public officials tends to debase public debate, increasing the chance that the affected nation will fall.

    See also Goebbels, Joseph; Rove, Karl.

  34. 34.

    USA Patriot

    December 14, 2008 at 2:12 pm

    @Tonal Crow: Classic projection, yet again.

  35. 35.

    Tony J

    December 14, 2008 at 2:21 pm

    I’d focus on the big problem and solve it, rather than focussing on the symptoms of the big problem. The big problem is that we have gone outside the Constitution in our handling of war powers.

    Thyme Cat Hatter –

    I get where you’re coming from, but how do you solve that big problem when the people you have to convince in order to make a solution work are the very same people responsible for causing the problem in the first place?

    Or to put it another way, since Congress has caused the problem by swallowing the War = Emergency = Presidential Responsibility meme, how do you suggest Congress might be persuaded to change its mind and start taking that responsibility back?

    It appears to me (+4 Fosters) that this is like one of those episodes of House where he lures his assistants into agreeing with his normal fixation on diagnosing and treating the core disease before pulling a face and prescribing a full-on assault on all the symptoms, because, d’uh, this is the kind of really cool and hard to diagnose disease that can only be attacked via its symptoms, which they’d know if they’d actually talked to the patient. Then he’d hobble off, and everyone would look annoyed, but you just know it’s going to turn out alright.

    If you want a Congress that stands up for its rights and accepts responsibility for sending the country to war, you’re going to have to hack away the extra powers that have been passed to the Presidency since WWII, and IMHO, the best way to start doing that is to make an example of the Bush Administration, because it provides an open-and-shut case for why investing the Presidency with supreme war-making power is a really, really dangerous thing.

    Once the ball starts rolling, with people being actually sent to jail for what they’ve done, it makes it a lot easier for Congress to ease its way back into its former role as regards war-making powers, especially if they’re working with a President who has already made a point of rejecting the concept of a Unitary Presidency.

    Shorter me – You can’t roll back decades of wrong without starting by drawing a line in the sand and pushing back from there. And it helps if you’ve got a firm foundation under you to take the initial strain.

    That’s what the Bush Years represent for America, an endless resource of "What the country shouldn’t be like" examples that can be prosecuted to provide object lessons in "What happens to people who break the law trying to make it that way". Like didn’t happen after Nixon or Reagan.

    Otherwise how are you going to make the people who actually inhabit Congress change a damned thing about how they operate?

  36. 36.

    Comrade Kevin

    December 14, 2008 at 2:28 pm

    Every single post by USA Patriot falls into one of these three categories:

    "Bush is teh awsome!!!!1!1!!"

    "Oh yeah, but Clinton’s worse!"

    "I know you are, but what am I?"

  37. 37.

    Conservatively Liberal

    December 14, 2008 at 2:30 pm

    Shorter USA Patriot: Hey Ma! Watch me wank! !

    Awwww, what a cute lil’ wingnut. Are you potty trained yet?

  38. 38.

    Mrs. Peel

    December 14, 2008 at 2:36 pm

    Every single post by USA Patriot falls into one of these three categories:

    Just remember what the past 8 years have proven. ALL republicans are genetic liars. (especially the ones who use grandiose jingoistic handles) It makes it much easier to ignore the wingnut bullshit and move on to people who make sense.

    In fact, I’d recommend that anyone who hasn’t installed cleek’s marvelous Pie Filter do so. It makes reading this blog SO much easier when they’re talking about how much they like pie, than when they’re just regurgitating the latest Fox/Rush/Morning Joe talking points.

  39. 39.

    Genine

    December 14, 2008 at 2:41 pm

    @dbrown:

    I think that’s certainly part of the reason that this administration won’t pay for its crimes: people and the media.

    I know quite a few people that straight out tell me they don’t want to think about what’s been happening. Its just too much. One person, after arguing with me and losing said "If everything you said is true… then it would be really bad. And I don’t want to think about it." Many people identify with their positions. So to say Bush was bad to do certain things, they believe that applies to them as well. So ignorance and justification is the order of the day.

    The same with the media. They certainly won’t go on and on about crimes they said were so good years ago.

    There is definitely a huge disconnect in the minds of many people.

  40. 40.

    rumpole

    December 14, 2008 at 3:06 pm

    It has been a mystery to me why people like Greenwald don’t have even occasional columns at a major daily when someone like Kristol is rewarded for repeated acts of idiocy with valuable editorial real estate.

    Greenwald’s first book (How Would a Patriot Act?) about the radical nature of the Bush Administration’s legal theory is excellent. (For a more scholarly, and much more boring work, check out the CRS study on the same general subject). Both come to the same conclusion, however: Ongoing Felony Operation(TM).

    These subjects will never be covered in the media, of course, because they’re too "hard’ for most peole to understand–that is until a relative gets caught up in a sweep of some kind, and no one can figure out what happened to her.

  41. 41.

    USA Patriot

    December 14, 2008 at 3:12 pm

    @Comrade Kevin: You’re projecting.

  42. 42.

    USA Patriot

    December 14, 2008 at 3:14 pm

    @Conservatively Liberal: You demonstrate typical lefty maturity and class. Your parents must be so proud.

  43. 43.

    USA Patriot

    December 14, 2008 at 3:15 pm

    @Mrs. Peel:
    Corected for accuracy – "Just remember what the past 40 years have proven. ALL republicans Democrats are genetic liars. "

  44. 44.

    USA Patriot

    December 14, 2008 at 3:17 pm

    @Genine: Except what the left says about Bush is almost totally untrue.

  45. 45.

    LiberalTarian

    December 14, 2008 at 3:35 pm

    @John Cole:

    OMG I feel for you.

    I used to like undergrads before grading papers.

  46. 46.

    D-Chance.

    December 14, 2008 at 3:37 pm

    The video. Can we call him "Shoe Guy ’08"?

  47. 47.

    LiberalTarian

    December 14, 2008 at 3:41 pm

    @John Cole: Everyday my friend, everyday. It’s cuz he got his balls shot off in Iraq.

  48. 48.

    Mrs. Peel

    December 14, 2008 at 3:41 pm

    Corected for accuracy

    Ah, such witty repartee from a knuckle dragger attempting irony. It’s especially funny since the correct way to spell "correct" seems to escape you.

    I’ll just bet you thought that the sad attempt by Fox News to produce a show to take down Jon Stewart was pure comedic gold, too.

    Pitiful, just pitiful.

  49. 49.

    Hugely

    December 14, 2008 at 4:15 pm

    man this patriot troll sucks – you sir, are no Gary Ruppert…

  50. 50.

    TenguPhule

    December 14, 2008 at 4:24 pm

    Bush hasn’t committed any crimes.

    Guantanamo Bay. That alone is enough to get him the hangman’s noose.

    Swing for Liberty.

  51. 51.

    TenguPhule

    December 14, 2008 at 4:26 pm

    The big problem is that we have gone outside the Constitution in our handling of war powers.

    That’s only a symptom.

    The big problem is that these people don’t follow the law and suffer no consequences for it.

    They’re fucking Karma Houdinis.

    Until heads start to literally roll, this shit will happen again.

  52. 52.

    TenguPhule

    December 14, 2008 at 4:28 pm

    I’m more inclined to blame al Qaeda for the uncomfortable circumstances in which detainees find themselves.

    And that is why you’re a fucking moron.

  53. 53.

    Ash Can

    December 14, 2008 at 5:13 pm

    @Comrade Kevin: And how. What a bore.

  54. 54.

    lovethebomb

    December 14, 2008 at 5:56 pm

    @USA Patriot:

    where did this fucking bush butt licking assclown come from?

  55. 55.

    Xecklothxayyquou Gilchrist

    December 14, 2008 at 6:24 pm

    @Hugely: man this patriot troll sucks – you sir, are no Gary Ruppert…

    Oh, I think I see a certain resemblance.

  56. 56.

    Comrade Kevin

    December 14, 2008 at 6:35 pm

    @USA Patriot:

    You’re projecting.

    That falls into category three, "I know you are, but what am I?"

    Corected for accuracy – "Just remember what the past 40 years have proven. ALL republicans Democrats are genetic liars. "

    That one falls into category two, "yeah, but Clinton was worse!"

  57. 57.

    AnneLaurie

    December 14, 2008 at 6:44 pm

    "The House Intelligence Committee’s top Democrat said Tuesday he has recommended that President-elect Barack Obama keep the country’s current national intelligence director and CIA chief in place for some time to ensure continuity in U.S. intelligence programs during the transition to a new administration.

    Intelligence Chairman Silvestre Reyes, D-Texas, said he also recommended to Obama’s transition team that some parts of the CIA’s controversial alternative interrogation program should be allowed to continue. He declined to say what he specifically recommended, however."

    I have come to believe the "tinfoil-hat fantasy" that our National Security Overlords are keeping legislators in line with transcripts of their private phone, email, and bedroom conversations. Not to mention pictures of their kids and descriptions of how tragic if said kids were to meet with ‘some kind of fatal accident’.

    I know quite a few people that straight out tell me they don’t want to think about what’s been happening. Its just too much. One person, after arguing with me and losing said "If everything you said is true… then it would be really bad. And I don’t want to think about it." Many people identify with their positions. So to say Bush was bad to do certain things, they believe that applies to them as well. So ignorance and justification is the order of the day.

    This is the final, capping tragedy of the reign of our C-Plus Augustus. There will always be eager courtiers among the Media Village Idiots to applaud Dear Leader’s every craven illegality, and a certain percentage of the general population who don’t care what their governors are doing as long as there’s an unlimited supply of cheetos at WalMart and missing white females on Fox. But if otherwise decent "normal" citizens despair, and decide they’d rather live with the eye-watering stink than clean out the widespread corruption, then we are all Good Germans now…

  58. 58.

    CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII

    December 14, 2008 at 6:54 pm

    What you have is a two-tiered system of justice where ordinary Americans are subjected to the most merciless criminal justice system in the world. They break the law. The full weight of the criminal justice system comes crashing down upon them. But our political class, the same elites who have imposed that incredibly harsh framework on ordinary Americans, have essentially exempted themselves and the leaders of that political class from the law.

    This is actually very true. As the former wife of a son of a state legislator, I saw this in action, as my parents, my in-laws, my ex and I went on a trip together one summer day, and when my father got pulled over for speeding, my ex-father-in-law stepped out of the back seat of the car, got chummy with the cop and the ticket was completely forgiven.

  59. 59.

    Crusty Dem

    December 14, 2008 at 7:15 pm

    Sorry to bother, but is USA Patriot really a troll? He/she/it reads more like a spoof, like a character out of "Team America: World Police", rather than your typical moron. Although the inability to form more than one sentence is a strong troll-like sign…

  60. 60.

    TheHatOnMyCat

    December 14, 2008 at 7:22 pm

    Otherwise how are you going to make the people who actually inhabit Congress change a damned thing about how they operate?

    Well, one way that comes to mind is, the president goes before congress and says, rescind the War Powers Act. If you want the president to do his constitutional job, congress has to do its constitutional job. That’s how the founders intended it to work, and that is how it has to work. Do your jobs, and set this right.

  61. 61.

    USA Patriot

    December 14, 2008 at 7:52 pm

    @TenguPhule: Locking up terrorists is not a crime, as much as you and members of al Qaeda may wish otherwise.

  62. 62.

    USA Patriot

    December 14, 2008 at 7:53 pm

    @Mrs. Peel: Wow, you caught a typo. So impressive!

  63. 63.

    USA Patriot

    December 14, 2008 at 7:54 pm

    @lovethebomb: Liberals are sooo classy and civilized. Your parents must be so proud.

  64. 64.

    Xecklothxayyquou Gilchrist

    December 14, 2008 at 7:55 pm

    …and another thing!

  65. 65.

    Atanarjuat

    December 14, 2008 at 8:17 pm

    I wish someone would remind Mr. Greenwald that the Constitution is not a death pact.

    Essentially, if we allow our enemies to turn our own legal protections against us, then they’ve truly and indisputably won. It’s bizarre how opaque the great lawyerly minds of the left are when it comes to this very obvious conclusion.

  66. 66.

    Xecklothxayyquou Gilchrist

    December 14, 2008 at 8:24 pm

    March of the trolls!

  67. 67.

    Chuck Butcher

    December 14, 2008 at 9:05 pm

    John Cole:

    Right now, legally and economically, we are two different nations

    I don’t like to contradict a recovering Republican, but that would be three once you count in the Illegal disenfranchised serf class called illegal immigrants. Here’s a pill for the syph you picked up from associating with whoremongers. Nah, John, you’re OK and it’s just a rude blog plug.

  68. 68.

    Johnny Pez

    December 14, 2008 at 9:09 pm

    It has been a mystery to me why people like Greenwald don’t have even occasional columns at a major daily when someone like Kristol is rewarded for repeated acts of idiocy with valuable editorial real estate.

    It’s called the Wrongness Doctrine. The wronger you are, the more highly respected you are.

  69. 69.

    Xecklothxayyquou Gilchrist

    December 14, 2008 at 9:15 pm

    @Johnny Pez: It’s called the Wrongness Doctrine.

    That’s a big part of it. I suspect that the establishment, Iraq-war-cheering media are also going to be circling their wagons a bit to avoid criticism and/or prosecution for their role in the past eight years’ atrocities.

  70. 70.

    Arbeitsleiter Paul L.

    December 14, 2008 at 9:42 pm

    Pot Condemns Kettle’s Legacy

    "I find it hard to believe that Bill Moyers would engage in character assassination over one evening news broadcast — even given the political imperatives of the moment. But I confess, I find it harder not to believe it.

    His part in Lyndon Johnson and J. Edgar Hoover’s bugging of Martin Luther King’s private life, the leaks to the press and diplomatic corps, the surveillance of civil rights groups at the 1964 Democratic Convention, and his request for damaging information from Hoover on members of the Goldwater campaign suggest he was not only a good soldier but a gleeful retainer feeding the appetites of Lyndon Johnson.

    lovethebomb: Nice of you to join us Mr. Ayres.
    Glenn must like softball interviews like this. So he can set fire to his army of strawman.
    He gets his clock clean when arguing with someone who disagrees with him.

  71. 71.

    El Cid

    December 14, 2008 at 9:50 pm

    Glenn Greenwald not smart! Glenn Greenwald not know argue good! I smart! I know argue good! Glenn Greenwald not do good argue when he argue me! I good argue! I right winger! Our argue are good!

  72. 72.

    Mrs. Peel

    December 14, 2008 at 9:55 pm

    He gets his clock clean when arguing with someone who disagrees with him.

    Uh, try again. Glenn has handed O’Lielly his head more than a few times. And various and sundry other Fox Noise-like bigmouths. I have a feeling that he’d blast a little know-nothing like you out of the water without even half trying. Go over to his blog and try to take him on, if you can get his attention. They could all use a few laughs while he carves you up.

  73. 73.

    TenguPhule

    December 14, 2008 at 10:32 pm

    Atanarjuat says: The Constitution is only a roll of toilet paper, unless my rights get violated. Then it is holy script.

    Translated.

  74. 74.

    TenguPhule

    December 14, 2008 at 10:34 pm

    Locking up terrorists is not a crime

    The problem of course being that the people locked up have not been proven to be terrorists.

    Oops!

    USFacist, still batting 0.0000

  75. 75.

    Chuck Butcher

    December 14, 2008 at 11:30 pm

    I wish someone would remind Mr. Greenwald that the Constitution is not a death pact.

    Essentially, if we allow our enemies to turn our own legal protections against us, then they’ve truly and indisputably won.

    I’m trying to figure out what it is that we’ve won once we toss the Constitution and our entire form of government. I suppose being upright and breathing counts for something, but then one is reminded of countless tragedies comitted in the name of staying alive. Does this Assenwipus remind anyone of the "good Germans"?

    This complete tool ignores that the documents he states aren’t death pacts were in fact put together by people who signed death pacts in the face of the most powerful nation of the time? Hanging offenses? What a complete pussy. How can it possibly escape a person how weak-kneed and cowardly such an appeal is? All the chest beating must’ve made him blind…

    c’mon, these two ,USpattycake and Assenhat, must be spoofs; stupidity and self contradiction can only get so deep before the cognitive dissonance would be deafening and incapacitating.

  76. 76.

    CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII

    December 14, 2008 at 11:53 pm

    I am surprised I still know the difference between there and their and they’re.

    That’s alright, nobody else around here does either, with the one single exception of myself (and I won’t tell, I promise).

  77. 77.

    Comrade Stuck

    December 15, 2008 at 12:07 am

    @Arbeitsleiter Paul L.:

    His part in Lyndon Johnson and J. Edgar Hoover’s bugging of Martin Luther King’s private life, the leaks to the press and diplomatic corps, the surveillance of civil rights groups at the 1964 Democratic Convention, and his request for damaging information from Hoover on members of the Goldwater campaign suggest he was not only a good soldier but a gleeful retainer feeding the appetites of Lyndon Johnson.

    That’s quite a litany of charges against Moyers there Buckwheat. Are those fresh off the wire at the Wingnut Fever Swamp Thinktank, or did you just wing it out your ass.

    Moyers was Johnson’s Press Secretary for Christ sake, so I doubt he was up to much collaboration with Mr. Hoover, who only pretty much collaborated with his own right wing nutbag self, and maybe his paranoid love bug Roy Cohn.

    And as I remember it, the only presnit caught bugging his enemies was your hero Tricky Dick Nixon. Maybe you and USA Patriot should consider tag teaming the stupid you bring here.

  78. 78.

    El Cid

    December 15, 2008 at 12:16 am

    Well, since LBJ caught Nixon committing treason by undermining talks in the middle of war for a peace agreement that might have saved tens of thousands of American lives, I guess it is a requirement to spy on treasonous Republicans and their allies when they travel abroad.

  79. 79.

    Comrade Kevin

    December 15, 2008 at 1:11 am

    @Atanarjuat:

    I wish someone would remind Mr. Greenwald that the Constitution is not a death pact.

    Essentially, if we allow our enemies to turn our own legal protections against us, then they’ve truly and indisputably won. It’s bizarre how opaque the great lawyerly minds of the left are when it comes to this very obvious conclusion.

    Shorter Atanarjuat:
    We must become exactly like our enemies in order to defeat them.

    p.s. fuck the constitution

    The number of people who act like they want to turn this country into a police state is absolutely amazing.

  80. 80.

    AnneLaurie

    December 15, 2008 at 2:16 am

    Even shorter Iamaspoof: Now that Mom has changed her credit card numbers, where am I to get my torture porn?

  81. 81.

    Eric

    December 15, 2008 at 4:09 am

    Somehow Glenn Greenwald actually manages to speak like he writes. That’s pretty insanely well-spoken, all things considered. Even if he coached himself before hand.

  82. 82.

    Kenneth Almquist

    December 15, 2008 at 4:13 am

    "ALL republicans are genetic liars."

    No, some Republicans are liars, and others are people who have been taken in by the lies. The latter group seems to be getting smaller over time.

  83. 83.

    D-Chance.

    December 15, 2008 at 6:58 am

    @Kenneth Almquist:

    They’re ALL liars, Republicans AND Democrats.

    Anyone who thinks otherwise is either willingly blind or a fool.

  84. 84.

    Gary Ruppert

    December 15, 2008 at 2:02 pm

    man this patriot troll sucks – you sir, are no Gary Ruppert…

    The fact is, patriot troll isn’t even good enough to pick the corn out of my shit.

  85. 85.

    Brachiator

    December 15, 2008 at 5:23 pm

    They have license to break the law. That’s what we’re deciding now as we say George Bush and his top advisors shouldn’t be investigated let alone prosecuted for the laws that we know that they’ve broken. And I can’t think of anything more damaging to our country because the rule of law is the lynchpin of everything we have.

    Great to see something here on the Moyers piece. I watched it and downloaded it into iTunes (God bless you, Mr. Jobs).

    I enjoyed the piece greatly, especially the points made about the difficulty of asking the Congress to investigate itself. And yet, I am not sure that I want to see an impotent, time-wasting commission appointed to investigate what happened. And oddly enough, Greenwald’s observations made me wary of appointing an independent counsel. Such an individual is almost outside the system entirely, and without a sense of focused duty, authority and restraint, we easily get the stupidity of the Clinton investigation, which drifted from any sense of investigation a specific issue, and became the modern version of The WitchFinder General, dedicated to finding some crime somewhere.

  86. 86.

    Comrade grumpy realist

    December 15, 2008 at 8:11 pm

    I really, really hope that our trolls bleating about "the Constitution isn’t a suicide pact!" and "terrorists shouldn’t have rights!" get swept up in some stupid data-mining sweep that links them several ways to groups-identified-as-terrorist AND drugs AND similar oogedy-boogedy stuff. May they have to prove to the FBI every single moment of their lives, and may they get put on the "no-fly" list and never get off it.

    Look, you idiots–it’s not the "true" terrorists we’re worrying about that much. (And how do you "know" that someone is a terrorist until you go through due process of law, hmmm?) We’re worrying about the huge number of false positives. Innocent people who get caught up in these things and then have to disprove that they are in cahoots with Mr. Bin Laden. Bad data analysis, malicious reporting on the part of a neighbor, well-meaning-but-paranoid reporting on the part of someone else….

    Ah well, I know your kind: "kill them all and let God sort them out."

  87. 87.

    Joe

    December 16, 2008 at 7:28 am

    With a sitting senator convicted, a governor’s alleged crimes all in the news, etc., it should be noted that the political class is not totally immune. Even in the Bush years, some rule of law shines thru.

Comments are closed.

Trackbacks

  1. » Blog Archive » Please says:
    December 14, 2008 at 1:59 pm

    […] Hero or Criminal? Please.  Thank god somebody has the courage to reveal what your government is doing when the people who are supposed to uphold the law instead break it. Spying on citizens without a warrant, without oversight?  Michael Tamm saw a problem: “I thought this [secret program] was something the other branches of the government—and the public—ought to know about. So they could decide: do they want this massive spying program to be taking place?”  Some jackasses will call him traitor.  Because the man who revealed the spying broke espionage laws.  Please. Irony is not dead, but it is severely wounded. […]

  2. Jules Crittenden » War Defended says:
    December 15, 2008 at 9:15 am

    […] a good one. Balloon Juice wants you to expend precious moments you’ll never get back watching the sockpuppet also […]

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