Jesse Jackson, Jr.’s Non-Denial of Misconduct

First of all, let me disclose that I don’t much like his dad. I don’t know enough about Junior to form an opinion. But if I was going on national TV to address the Blagojevich scandal, I would say something more substantive and definitive than, “I don’t believe we did anything wrong.”

I would say, “I definitely did not do anything wrong. Here’s what you need to know about the contacts I’ve had with Blagojevich. This is exactly what I did, what I said to him, what he said to me, etc., etc.” and give us an exact account of every communication and dealing he’s had with the governor.

Of course, Blagojevich has reportedly identified Jackson as one person who was willing to pay for the seat. While that wouldn’t really surprise me, given the fact that he was brought up by Jesse “Shakedown” Jackson, Sr., I still wouldn’t put much stock in anything Blagojevich says at this point. (EDIT: And, to be honest, Jackson’s demeanor didn’t seem like he was someone who was too worried about anything.)

I won’t link to it, but it’s no surprise that FoxNews is running a picture on its Web site of President-elect Obama and Blagojevich.






81 replies
  1. 1
    Damned at Random says:

    Is candidate 5 on tape or is he being used to shake down other candidates? He may be innocent and Blago could be claiming he made the offer to get a counteroffer from another mark.

    I really wouldn’t take Blagovich’s word on anything without collaboration

  2. 2
    Zifnab says:

    But if I was going on national TV to address the Blagojevich scandal, I would say something more substantive and definitive than, “I don’t believe we did anything wrong.”

    That’s politico speak for "I hope we don’t get prosecuted" and probably means he did something incredibly wrong. Given that JJ Jr really, really wanted that Senate seat and given that it was up for sale, it wouldn’t surprise me to see that he put in a bid. That said, the very fact that he’s claiming he probably maybe sorta didn’t do anything that would classically be defined as "illegal" also makes me hope he doesn’t get the seat in the future.

    Seriously, where’s cloning when you need it? Can’t we just have a second Obama back again for this job?

  3. 3
    The Other Steve says:

    I think I’ll reserve judgement until I see the prosecutor talking about evidence something wrong was done.

    Thanks anyway for the Gotcha Journalism.

  4. 4
    Kynn says:

    What a surprise, Michael "DUI" D. doesn’t like Jesse Jackson Jr. Shocker, it’s almost as if conservative white gay men are instinctively biased against black politicians.

    Nah, that can’t be, because of all the harsh words Michael "So Drunk That I Can’t Remember My Car Getting Shot Up" said about the white politicians who are definitely involved in this scandal.

  5. 5
    Kynn says:

    Wait, was this Michael D? I thought I read that before I posted, but now the minimized "mobile version" isn’t showing me the author. If it was not, then I apologize.

  6. 6
    Napoleon says:

    @Damned at Random:

    Is candidate 5 on tape or is he being used to shake down other candidates?

    According to the indictment the whole candidate 5 thing could be the result of the ultimate game of "telephone". It is one of Gov. B’s hacks saying they had talked to someone saying they had some connection to Jackson type of a thing. It is way to thin of a reed to even begin to think Jackson was offering anything.

    Keep in mind that everyone "knew" that Gov. B was under investigation. Even if Jackson was the crooked pol on the face of the Earth that only gets you half way there. He would have to also be very stupid.

    By the way, read the part of an e-mail Josh Marshall has on TPM from someone personally familiar with Gov B and the people around him, and the fact that he unfavorably compares them with Bush’s yes men makes me thing all of the talk on the tape could easily be, as Mark Schmitt put it, "castles in the air".

  7. 7
    John Cole says:

    Jesse Jackson just gave a full-throated press conference categorically denying any wrong-doing.

  8. 8
    Common Sense says:

    Kynn. Michael was an Obama supporter. He also voluntarily moved from a country with very few black people (Canada) to a city with a relatively large percentage (Atlanta).

    Perhaps he is instinctively biased against Jesse Jackson, rather than anyone with black skin? Naah that wouldn’t fit your childishly simplistic narrative.

  9. 9
    Kynn says:

    Dude, moving from Canada to Atlanta doesn’t make you non-racist, nor does voting for Obama. (Especially when the other choice was Palin/McCain.)

    Michael "Drunk Driving" D says he doesn’t even know anything about Jesse Jackson Jr, nor about his involvement in this case, but that doesn’t stop him from making a blog post about it. And your explanation is that he’s biased against people named Jesse Jackson? I dunno, I have yet to find a white conservative who "dislikes Jesse Jackson" who isn’t really using Jesse-hate as a socially acceptable surrogate for disliking blacks who fight the (racist) system. Jesse Jackson himself isn’t the problem; it’s what he symbolizes that tees off the white conservative.

    If Michael D had written anything else about the Blago scandal, it would be easier to believe that it’s not his white privilege talking. But when all he does is jump up to pretend like he’s got the goods on Jesse Jackson’s kid? C’mon, that smells awful bad.

  10. 10
    Emma Anne says:

    Without alleging racism on anyone’s part, this does seem to be a knee-jerk and ill-thought-out post. I heard JJ-III say emphatically that he was positive no one associated with him in any way made any sort of offers regarding the Senate seat. How is that a non-denial?

  11. 11
    Common Sense says:

    He said he doesn’t like his dad. Lots of Obama voters didn’t like Jesse Jackson Sr — myself among them. As far as Junior, Michael seems to be encouraging him to be forceful with his denials. How you can extrapolate that into proof positive of widespread white conservative hate for African Americans is beyond me.

    You claim that this post is proof "conservative white gay men are instinctively biased against black politicians." I point out that this particular conservative supported a black politician over the conservative candidate, which supports the opposite conclusion. You continue to assert that his support for AA’s is irrelevant, and that his demographic group is proof positive of his own leanings. Pathetic how you paint with such a broad brush based on nothing more than his skin color and sexual orientation.

  12. 12
    The Moar You Know says:

    @Kynn: Holy shit! You’d better quit wasting your time posting and get back to work, sounds like you’ve got a lot of axes left to grind.

  13. 13
    Kynn says:

    Why is Michael D pretending that Jesse Jackson Jr issued a "non-denial" when he said the following?

    "I have no involvement whatsoever in any wrongdoing. I did not initiate or authorize anyone at any time to promise anything to Gov. Blagojevich on my behalf," Jackson Jr. said. "I never sent a message or an emissary to the governor to make an offer, to plead my case or to propose a deal for the U.S. Senate seat, period."

    Jackson Jr. added that he met with the governor about the Senate seat on Monday — his first meeting with the governor in four years. He confirmed that he has been contacted by federal investigators about the case and plans to meet with them and cooperate fully.

    Oh, yeah, because Michael "doesn’t like his dad." He’s not lying about what Jackson said or anything! He just doesn’t like JJ Sr. That makes it okay to mislead and condemn, and there’s nothing racist about it as long as you properly avow hatred for that awful person Jesse Senior!

  14. 14
    Shinobi says:

    Kynn,
    I think it is important to note that Jesse Jackson Sr. Has spoken out repeatedly against Gay Marriage rights. A relevant issue to some people. And while not necessarily relevant to the Blago case they certainly represent a reason to dislike Jesse Jackson and his offspring besides white privilege.

    I have yet to find a white conservative who "dislikes Jesse Jackson" who isn’t really using Jesse-hate as a socially acceptable surrogate for disliking blacks who fight the (racist) system

    I think in this case you have found one who is using him as a surrogate for people who fight for civil rights for some groups, and not others.

  15. 15
    Michael D. says:

    @Kynn: Heh. You are trés classy!

  16. 16
    Kynn says:

    Wait a second, is "I don’t believe we did anything wrong" even a real quote from Jesse Jackson Jr? I have been trying to locate Michael D’s source and have not found it.

  17. 17
    Michael D. says:

    It’s not a white or black thing with me. I don’t like Jesse Jackson, and I don’t like James Dobson. I also don’t like the mostly white leasership of the gay group, Human Rights Campaign.

    I am a HUGE Barack HUssein Obama fan, but to Kynn though, I am a racist because there’s one black person I don’t like. And because I got a DUI AND don’t like one black person.

  18. 18
    kwAwk says:

    I’m still wondering what Candidate 5 did wrong and how it isn’t standard practice in American politics.

    Candidate A to Candidate B, if you come do fundraising for me I’ll nominate you to this office. Is that really so out of the ordinary?

    I’m lost on this one I guess.

  19. 19
    Kynn says:

    @shinobi — Jackson Sr has not been an outspoken opponent of same-sex marriage rights. His views are at the very least highly comparable to those of any major Democratic presidential candidate this year, including Barack Obama’s statements (that were used to help ensure Prop 8’s passage).

    So @Michael D, why don’t you like Jesse Jackson Jr? And did you really fabricate a quote instead of telling us what he really said?

  20. 20
    kwAwk says:

    Kynn – Launching personal attacks in the comments of a political blog really reflects poorly on you. Getting a DUI is a stupid act. But sometimes otherwise smart people do stupid things.

    And really, if you are going to call somebody racist please post a better case than Michael D. doesn’t like Jesse Jackson. Its pretty pathetic.

  21. 21

    Of course, Blagojevich has reportedly identified Jackson as one person who was willing to pay for the seat.

    Perhaps you could link to an article where Blag is quoted as saying JJ jr. is Candidate 5.

    And Kym, MD isn’t a racist. He just flies off half-cocked and posts things that don’t make sense on a number of topics.

  22. 22
    Keith says:

    Would be funny if this was somehow connected to Sr.’s hot mic comment about castrating Obama.
    On the other hand, when they’re talking about wanting money out of Sen. 5, is this a direct contribution to the person, a contribution to the candidate’s fundraising machine, an obligation to raise funds on behalf of candidate, or something else? Only one of those is truly nefarious; the others (except for "other") are par for the course in politics (you fundraise for my campaign, and I reward you with a role in my administration).

  23. 23
    kwAwk says:

    Keith – It sounds to me that this was a fundraising offer, which is why I’m confused too.

  24. 24
    Michael D. says:

    Not a misquote, so much as a paraphrase. Anyway:

    “I am confident we have engaged in no wrong-doing. The facts are going to bear themselves out and our state is going to be the better for it.”

    You either did something wrong or you did not.

    It’s like me saying, as work, “I’m confident I asked someone to look over this project proposal.” You know whether you did or didn’t. It’s not up for debate.

    But whatever. I was paraphrasing something I heard on TV and Kynn didn’t like it because I got a DUI two years ago.

  25. 25
    Kynn says:

    @kwAwk, I’ve been reading Michael DUI since he started posting here. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with harping on that if he’s going to slam Jackson Jr because he dislikes his dad, calling him "Jesse ‘Shakedown’ Jackson Sr." My opinions on Demmons’ privilege don’t stem just from this single post.

    If Michael D doesn’t like these kinds of discussions in politics, then maybe he’d think twice about making them in the future.

    PS: Has anyone confirmed the quote of "I don’t believe we did anything wrong" yet? Thanks.

  26. 26
    kwAwk says:

    You either did something wrong or you did not.

    Well, that is a little simplistic, some things are up to an interpretation of the law, and Mr. Fitzgerald in general has a more strict interpretation of the law than some of our Chicago politicians would have.

  27. 27
    Eric U. says:

    I don’t think you can make a fundraising offer that mentions specific amounts like Blago has been quoted were offered.

    I have always used JJ Sr. as a method of ferreting out racists. Just say something nice about him, and the racists will hit the ceiling and start sputtering nonsense. I guess I’ll have to change that approach if the person hits the ceiling due to his stance on gay marriage.

  28. 28
    kwAwk says:

    Kynn – I’m a white liberal and I don’t much care for Jackson Sr. either, simply because I think he lives in the past. Same with Al Sharpton.

    Both of these men could better spend their time teaching inner city blacks how to thrive in our society given the assets, talents, skills and opportunities that they have as opposed to reliving past triumphs of the civil rights era and looking under every rock hoping to find one last bastion of racism to stamp out.

    I won’t go as far as the conservatives and say that they do it because they need powerless blacks to depend upon them but rather I would say that they are just stuck in an old paradigm.

    Does that make me a racist too?

  29. 29
    Cyrus says:

    I would say, “I definitely did not do anything wrong. Here’s what you need to know about the contacts I’ve had with Blagojevich. This is exactly what I did, what I said to him, what he said to me, etc., etc.” and give us an exact account of every communication and dealing he’s had with the governor.

    You would? Really? From memory? That would be stupid. Because note that no one’s accusing Jackson of talking to Blagojevich himself, but of someone else claiming to speak on Jackson’s behalf.

    I mean, OK, if you have a photographic memory and if you’re a private citizen who doesn’t have any people who represent you in a professional or semi-professional capacity, it would make sense. For a politician without a photographic memory, it is entirely credible that someone else (A House Representative has a lawyer, a press agent, a chief of staff and a fundraising chair who all speak for him at various times, and this guy even has a father…) could have had "contacts" without them knowing about it. If Jesse Jackson Jr. categorically denies it and then his chief of staff is implicated, he’d be completely screwed, even if Jackson genuinely didn’t know about it himself.

  30. 30
    Keith says:

    I don’t think you can make a fundraising offer that mentions specific amounts like Blago has been quoted were offered.

    Didn’t HRC somewhat publicly want Obama to help raise a specific amount of funds (her debt) in exchange for conceding/endorsing?

  31. 31
    Michael D. says:

    @kwAwk:

    I’m a white liberal and I don’t much care for Jackson Sr. either, simply because I think he lives in the past. Same with Al Sharpton.

    RACIST!!

  32. 32
    Kynn says:

    Ah, good, so it’s confirmed that Michael D"UI" just made up a quote and attributed it to Jesse Jackson Jr, when really Jackson said exactly what Demmons said he should have said.

    You’re looking for a "gotcha" quote to take out of context, and you’re doing this not because you know anything about Jackson’s role in the scandal, but because you hate his dad. When you can’t find one, you use the "paraphrase" excuse to create such a gotcha quote, even though your "paraphrase" is clearly not what Jackson said. Then you attack him for not denying it enough in your paraphrase, when in reality he categorically denied wrongdoing.

    So, why DO you hate Jesse Jackson Sr so much that you’ll smear his son, Michael?

  33. 33
    kwAwk says:

    RACIST!!

    HA!

  34. 34
    Michael D. says:

    From my post:

    I don’t know enough about Junior to form an opinion.

    EDIT: And, to be honest, Jackson’s demeanor didn’t seem like he was someone who was too worried about anything.)

    Now that I think of it, why am I even responding to you? No more.

  35. 35
    demimondian says:

    @Michael D.:

    You either did something wrong or you did not.

    Actually, no.

    You may have done something of which you’re not proud, but which was necessary and legal. That’s sometimes the way it is, you know.

  36. 36
    Kynn says:

    @kwAwk — I think you’re displaying a lot of white privilege and relying on a very tainted and, yes, racist view of Jackson-and-Sharpton pushed by the media. (And yes, I think conflating the two of them together is also a sign of a privileged PoV.)

    Are you -racist-? I don’t know. Are you expressing white privilege in what you’re writing? Yes. Please think about whether you can give up the privileged PoV and see Jacksons Sr and Jr from a different point of view.

  37. 37
    Common Sense says:

    What Jackson said:

    "I feel very good. I have done nothing wrong,"

    "I am confident we have engaged in no wrongdoing."

    What Michael claimed he said:

    “I don’t believe we did anything wrong.”

    So please explain how this deviously twists Jackson’s words in a nefarious attempt to advance the cause of conservative gay white supremacy. And try to do so without sing the initials DUI (which has about as much to do with this post as Prop 8 does or referring to JJ Sr. as Jesse "adulterer" Jackson every time you reference him). It tends to help wrt your own credibility.

    Broad brushes indicate a small mind.

  38. 38
    demimondian says:

    @Common Sense: There’s a huge difference between a positive statement and a negative one. Saying "I am confident " is much more specific than "I am unconfident of not " — and the second is what MD quotes, and then complains about as insufficiently direct.

  39. 39
    Kynn says:

    @Common Sense, please explain what in Jackson’s words — not Demmons’ words — you see as a "non-denial." I see a non-denial there.

    As for whether Michael D’s public endangerment has to do with this post — you’re right, it has nothing to do with it. The same way that Jesse Jackson Jr’s father has nothing to do with whether he’s guilty of corruption, but that never stopped Michael D.U.I. from starting his post with his expression of dislike for Sr, nor did it prevent him from slamming Sr’s parenting and ethics.

    I don’t like Michael D; he doesn’t like Jesse Jackson. But JJ Sr has never potentially killed anyone on the road, just pissed off a bunch of whites, liberal or otherwise, by refusing to shut up about this "racism" thing. Which the white people are convinced is Not To Be Spoken Of!

  40. 40
    Shygetz says:

    People like Kynn give civil rights advocates a bad name. You dislike one minority individual who happens to have been involved in several unethical shakedown attempts and apparent siphoning of money from his charities while being exposed in his infidelity while claiming moral and religious authority, and you’re a racist.

    Michael D went off the handle with a misquote…again, just like he does all the time with white politicians. Makes him an unreliable blogger, not a racist.

  41. 41
    Common Sense says:

    Demi;

    While I agree that semantically it sounds better to say "I did things right," than to say "I didn’t do anything wrong," I don’t think that semantic arguments are a reason to accuse others of racism. I think it is a bit of an overgeneralization to claim that this is evidence of a large conspiracy by the gay white man to put others down.

    Kynn;

    You are using Michael D’s words to make a statement about every gay white conservative in America. How this is any different than using one black politicians’ actions to disparage all of them is a quandry you must resolve.

  42. 42
    Laura W says:

    I don’t have a cat in this fight by any stretch but I will mention that Michael is now concluding his second week of smoking cessation (RIGHT, Michael?) and I’d be inclined to just cut him slack and move on with my life for the time being. Really…how important is beating this to death in the Grand Scheme of Life? Way too much energy is being spent on quibbling the tiny points, IMHO.

  43. 43

    I’m a little confused. I find that Jackson made a categorical, unambiguous and detailed denial, not a non-denial.

    My link to the information which leads me to this conclusion is here, 9000 news hits on the story, and so far I haven’t found anything that looks like a non-denial.

    I also find that for some reason the top post to the thread morphs into "Obama and Blogojevich" which has nothing to do with anything, least of all, the supposed subject of the thread.

    What exactly is this thread about? Where is the link to the non-denial? I can’t find a non-denial.

  44. 44
    demimondian says:

    @Common Sense: I’ll grant you the claims of racism would seem thin if that were the whole story, but I will also say that in the context of the guilt by association attack on JJJ’s father, it seems a reasonable complaint.

  45. 45

    I can find denial.

    Non denial, I can non-find.

    I am non-understanding.

  46. 46
    demimondian says:

    @TheHatOnMyCat: MD made it up, TZ. That’s kind of the problem here. There was a categorical denial…the weasel-worded one? Yeah, not so much.

  47. 47

    MD made it up, TZ.

    Say it ain’t so, Shoeless Demi.

    Say it ain’t so.

  48. 48
    Common Sense says:

    @demimondian:

    I must differ Demi. I think that reinterpreting quotes in an attempt to associate the scion of a political family with the patriarch of same is not evidence of racism. It is evidence of not liking that name. When GOP extremists portray Patrick Kennedy as a carbon copy of his father for driving under the influence of ADD drugs, it is not evidence that the GOP hates white people. It is evidence that they hate Kennedys.

    Anyone who doesn’t think that discussing Jesse Jackson Jr. is going to evoke memories of his father is simply not being realistic. For better or worse, a huge percentage of both Jackson Jr’s supporters and detractors will base their opinions of him on his last name and his father’s political actions. It doesn’t make any of them racists IMO.

  49. 49
    Nellcote says:

    I would say, “I definitely did not do anything wrong. Here’s what you need to know about the contacts I’ve had with Blagojevich. This is exactly what I did, what I said to him, what he said to me, etc., etc.” and give us an exact account of every communication and dealing he’s had with the governor.

    That’s exactly what JJjr said in his presser.

    Of course, Blagojevich has reportedly identified Jackson as one person who was willing to pay for the seat.

    No, Blagojevich referred to a supposed "emmisary" of JJjr.

    You might want to hold off on deciding JJjr’s guilty of the bribe until some facts come out about this. The guy has a fairly decent liberal voting record. While I can’t find anything about him being anti-gay marriage, he has publicly hit the Bush admin./gop for anti-gay policies.

  50. 50
    Nellcote says:

    I would say, “I definitely did not do anything wrong. Here’s what you need to know about the contacts I’ve had with Blagojevich. This is exactly what I did, what I said to him, what he said to me, etc., etc.” and give us an exact account of every communication and dealing he’s had with the governor.

    That’s exactly what JJjr said in his presser.

    Of course, Blagojevich has reportedly identified Jackson as one person who was willing to pay for the seat.

    No, Blagojevich referred to a supposed "emmisary" of JJjr.

    You might want to hold off on deciding JJjr’s guilty of the bribe until some facts come out about this. The guy has a fairly decent liberal voting record. While I can’t find anything about him being anti-gay marriage, he has publicly hit the Bush admin./gop for anti-gay policies.

  51. 51
    HyperIon says:

    hmm, i guess i’m really out of it.
    when did Michael D. cop to a DUI?
    there must have been a post, no?
    linky, please?

  52. 52

    when did Michael D. cop to a DUI?

    I think it was a long time ago, early this year maybe?

    Or maybe this morning. Alzheimers kicking in.

    No, seriously, it was a while ago.

  53. 53
    HyperIon says:

    @TheHatOnMyCat: thanks for the "info".
    this is the first i’ve heard of it.
    how restrained some folks are!
    (yeah, that’s BS. sorry.)

  54. 54
    Damned at Random says:

    The SUn-Times endorsed JJ III for the Senate seat in a Dec 1 editorial:

    We believe Jackson, 43, has the drive, the passion and the experience. In his 13 years in Congress, he has distinguished himself as a thoughtful, committed legislator who fights for what he thinks is right.

    Jackson took the lead in the push for a third Chicago area airport — in Will County, close to his South Side and south suburban district — and has refused to give up. That has put him at odds with Mayor Daley, a man he would be smart to befriend, but we admire his commitment on this issue, as well as his daily determination to bring economic development to his depressed district.

    Jackson has looked after his constituents well, bringing home about $600 million in federal grants and appropriations for projects such as fresh drinking water in Ford Heights, a community long stuck with rust-colored, foul-smelling water. He has led efforts to redevelop the former US Steel South Works site on the South Side.

    Jackson also has proven himself on the national stage, serving on the House Appropriations Committee and as Obama’s national campaign co-chairman. He has pushed for universal health care and, in 2001, was the point man on legislation that created a center on minority health and health disparities at the National Institutes of Health.

    http://www.suntimes.com/news/c.....01.article

    Sounds like a good hardworking congressman. I hope he is clean

  55. 55
    kwAwk says:

    @kynn

    I don’t know what to tell you. If thinking of Americas two best known civil rights leaders in the country who both have the pretty much the same schtick and who both happen to be reverends in the same context makes me and example of white privilige then I guess I’d say guilty as charged. Jackson and Sharpton are both well known for their ability to use the media to drive their agenda and meet their goals, so if I have a perception problem as to who these men are then who is to blame for that?

    I’d have to say though that I can’t from your accusation of white privilige come to understand what your definition of white privilidge is…

    My understanding of white privilidge is white people having an expectation that they will have benefits or privilidges based upon their skin color, which I don’t believe.

    What I do believe is that we have done basically all that we can do from a legal standpoint and from a social program stand point to help inner city blacks (and others). The problems facing our inner cities are self inflicted and won’t be solved until our inner cities decide to fix what ails them.

  56. 56
    r€nato says:

    Hey Michael Demmons-

    take heart. You ain’t nobody in the blogosphere until you have your own personal troll assigned to you.

    Congratulations!

    As for JJ Jr., I really don’t know enough about him to have an opinion one way or another.

    I do know these things, though:

    1) He doesn’t seem to act like JJ Sr. While JJ the First has done some noble things, he also makes his living as a racial shakedown artist. I don’t see that in what little I know of the son.

    2) I don’t believe in visiting the sins of the father upon the son, without proof that the son is a chip off the block.

  57. 57
    r€nato says:

    I had a DUI 8 years ago. Does that make me an evil person and nobody should take seriously anything I have to say?

  58. 58
    Kynn says:

    White privilege is also an attitude, which — among other things — assigns to a group "black civil rights leaders" people in a way that you would never hear white people talked about. Who are the white political leaders? Um, what, McCain and Bush and Clinton and Gore, maybe? Nobody ever lumps them all together, because it’s clear they’re individuals. But the spectre of JesseJacksonAlSharpton is always raised especially by white liberals (and gay conservatives) to show just how scary those blacks are who stand up for anything, and keep the people of color in their place. After all, you don’t wanna be another JesseJacksonAlSharpton!

    And even when they’re not, as with Jesse Jackson Jr, they’ll still get smeared with fake quotes and feigned outrage — because what, someone doesn’t like their dad?

    White privilege is an attitude. Look it up online — it’s easy to google — and read it over. If you’re as liberal as you say, then you won’t mind being exposed to other views that challenge society’s culture of white supremacy.

  59. 59
    YellowJournalism says:

    As far as Michael not liking Jesse Jackson, it’s not like the man hasn’t been a dick now and then. Remember when he made the comment about wanting to cut off Obama’s balls because Obama was encouraging members of the black community, specifically unwed fathers, to take responsibility as parents?

  60. 60
    r€nato says:

    White privilege is also an attitude, which—among other things—assigns to a group "black civil rights leaders" people in a way that you would never hear white people talked about.

    oh really?

    Gee, given that it’s socially acceptable for black people (or gays, or women) to band together in political action groups to advance ‘black’ issues (or ‘gay’ issues, or ‘women’s’ issues, or ‘hispanic’ issues), but if white people do that it’s considered ‘racist’…

    …I just don’t know where white people get these ideas.

  61. 61
    r€nato says:

    Kynn is right.

    There’s so much racism in white America, it’s impossible to conceive that they would ever vote for an African-American for President.

  62. 62
    kwAwk says:

    Kynn – I would agree with you if I had said ‘black leaders’ as opposed to black CIVIL RIGHTS leaders. Whites tend not to have civil rights leaders as we have historically been the ones who had the most civil rights.

    I would conflate Sharpton and Jackson Sr. simply because their current role and current manner of operation is quite similar. I would not as a lot of people on the right do, confuse Jackson Sr. with Farrakan, as they have very different messeges and very different belief systems. Just as Jeremiah Wright is a very different leader than Farrakan.

    I guess I would say what bothers me is that I don’t hear from Jesse Jackson a lot of talk about blacks in the inner cities taking back their own living spaces. I don’t hear this from a lot of Democrats in general too.

    I also would not tend to lump Jackson Jr with Jackson Sr unless he gave me a reason too.

  63. 63
    Mako says:

    Kynn, your webpages don’t validate.

  64. 64
    Jay says:

    He was raised by an icon of the post civil rights (as if that fight has ended) movement not a "shakedown" artist. Jackson Sr. is less corrupt than any politician that has ever bargained for an earmark for his buddies and that’s just about all of them.

  65. 65
    Zuzu's Petals says:

    @Kynn:

    Enough with the silly and irrelevant ad hominems.

  66. 66
    Fraud Guy says:

    Since JJJr did state that he didn’t authorize someone to make an offer, I do think that there may be someone in his camp who could get in trouble, as I felt his statement implied that someone may have exceeded their authority.

    Also, one of the news shows had a JJJr spokesman state (IIRC) that he would still accept the seat if Blago offered it. My wife was flipping news channels, so I didn’t get to see who it was, unfortunately. Every other Illinois politician I have seen clearly indicated that they would not accept.

    And, for non-Chicagoans, there was a big hullabaloo a few years back when the Jackson family suddenly became owners of a major liquor distributor in town not too long after Senior organized a boycott of the parent company. I’m trying to find contemporary articles on the story to reinforce my fading memory, but most of them are well post fact by some not credible looking blogs. I believe it blew over because there was sufficient time between the boycott and the financed purchase to at least minimize the appearance of impropriety.

  67. 67
    Kynn says:

    @kwAwk, you wrote:

    I guess I would say what bothers me is that I don’t hear from Jesse Jackson a lot of talk about blacks in the inner cities taking back their own living spaces.

    KwAwk, my white liberal friend, I want you to consider briefly the idea that your view of Jesse Jackson Sr may be limited, by pondering this question: Are you not hearing Jesse Jackson say that because he is not saying it, or because you are not hearing it?

    And if he is saying it, and it is still not being heard by you, why is that? If he is not saying that, how do you know he is not saying it?

    Are there any barriers or gatekeepers between you and Jesse Jackson Sr that would prevent you from hearing a full accounting of what he has spoken about? If not, then do you recall the topics of his last three public speeches or interviews?

    If you don’t know, that’s okay, this isn’t a test — but hopefully the question itself may point out where there are some gaps in your knowledge.

    In short, the man is a whole lot more than the stereotype pushed by the white-controlled, corporate media.

  68. 68
    Kynn says:

    Seriously, I mean, do you know what the Rainbow/PUSH Coalition does? Have you looked at their web site recently?

    Have you watched or read a transcript of a complete Jesse Jackson Sr speech? I mean, like ever? The whole speech? Not just a sound bite of a few seconds but the whole thing?

    Because the Jesse Senior you describe is honestly nothing like the real person.

    Check it out; find out what he spends his time doing and what he talks about. Then maybe we can revisit these ideas about whether it’s okay to despise Jesse Jackson, Sr or Jr.

  69. 69
    Kynn says:

    One last thing, in case you’re still reading this — take a look at JJSr’s 8/2/2008 speech. It’s quite interesting and very good. And it touches on exactly those things you think he doesn’t talk about.

  70. 70
    Cyrus says:

    I hope this thread doesn’t get too long, but…

    My understanding of white privilidge is white people having an expectation that they will have benefits or privilidges based upon their skin color, which I don’t believe.

    This belief is mistaken. White privilege does exist, and it doesn’t rely on intentional malice or discrimination to keep going, just on judgments based on race. Those judgments may be tiny, unconscious, even positive in some cases, but they do happen, and they do add up to making life harder for nonwhite people than for white people. For example.

  71. 71
    Birdzilla says:

    The whole damn RAINBOW/PUSH are a bunch of crinimals i mean JESSIE JACKASSON is a blabbering idiot he and his bunch should be investigated

  72. 72
    kwAwk says:

    Kynn – I have never said that I dispise Jesse Jackson Sr or Jr, what I have said is that I didn’t like Jackson and I’ve made my reasons for that pretty clear.

    Now at your prompting I did go to the Rainbow/PUSH Coalition Website and on that website I struggled to come across the type of internalization of the solutions to the problems that plague the inner cities, rather I get a nice photo montage of Jackson, a history of the RPC that is under construction and really not much else.

    Have I ever listened to a Jackson speech or anything? I’m sure I have at some point but yousound like a wingnut though in dismissing everything in the media as biased against Jackson. It is great to give speeches and it is great to talk but actions speek louder than words. And as I’ve noted before Jackson is well known for being quite adept at using the media to get his point across. To say that he has simply been defined by an unfair corporate media is a cop out.

    The election of Barack Obama to the Presidency shows that America, in spite of lingering white privilidge is more open to the success of black Americans than some black Americans believe. Right up until the election a large number of people didn’t believe that America could or would elect a black President. They were wrong.

    Going back to the plight of the inner cities in America though, most of the problems are self inflicted by the communities themselves. There is nobody out there forcing people into crack or heroin addition. There in nobody out there, outside of the community members themselves forcing kids into street gangs. There are only two people in the world responsible for bringing an illegitimate child in the world, the mother and father. The reason our inner city neighborhoods are such crappy places to live is that the people in those communities make them such a crappy place to live. Crime. Drugs. Gangs taking over schools. Blight. These aren’t problems that can be solved through outside actions. There is no law we can enact to make all poor people middle class. There is no law we can pass that will make a child who doesn’t want to learn take school seriously. And one doesn’t need a nice pretty school in order to learn Algebra, one only needs the desire. We toss in the school and the teacher to make it easier.

    And in spite of what you might believe about white privilidge it isn’t automatically so great to be white. I spent much of my childhood on public assistance. Nobody handed my family a big check and a new car because they brought a blonde haired green eyed baby into the world. I have to work for what I want just like everybody else. As a personal philosophy the good old conservative work ethic really is the best way to live your life, you are your own best asset and you have to get the most out of the opportunities available to you and not simply piss and moan about the opportunities that aren’t available to you.

  73. 73
    Kynn says:

    Okay, I am just going to drop out of this, now, kwAwk — since you don’t seem to be interested in actually exploring whether white privilege exists or if your view of Jesse Jackson Sr are limited. I sent you to his web site, where he controls the message, and you went on about whether or not I’m claiming a media conspiracy prevents black views from being fairly aired. (It’s not a conspiracy, but it is a real phenomenon — one which you have no interest in exploring.)

    It’s a telling sign of white privilege, by the way, that you are dismissive of black views on racism and quickly leap to tell how disadvantaged you really are as a white person. I’d point out that saying poor whites don’t automatically negate the existence of white privilege, but I don’t think you care anyway.

    Also, yeah, Obama’s election was a good thing, and also the direct beneficiary of Jesse Jackson’s runs for president, when he knew he couldn’t win. And Sharpton’s run. And Moseley Braun’s.

    But his victory doesn’t mean that JJ Sr was in any way wrong or that he’s insignificant now. And it definitely doesn’t mean that racism is over in America, by any stretch.

  74. 74
    kwAwk says:

    Kynn – I conceed in my post #72 that white privilidge does indeed exist, my contention would only be that it isn’t as overbearing and prevelent as you would have us believe. My contention about Jesse Sr. wasn’t that I thought he was a bad person and had not accomplished good if not great things, but only that I thought that his methodology was outdated and his focus was off the mark.

    There are more gains in terms of helping blacks in this country overcome what ails them by working in the communities which are left behind, inside out, to help them better take advantage of the opportunities that are out there, instead of focusing on this issue of white privilidge which as you define is pretty much subconcious racism. I can’t end white privilidge as you see it and neither can any law.

    I can never in my life expect to be afforded the privilidges our society has afforded to George W. Bush or Albert Gore based upon who their parents were and their family economic situation. If I spend my whole life focusing on that and not trying to build up my life with what I have then I’ll just waste my whole life. Sure I can work towards a day when there is more economic equality in this country, but I can’t let that limit what I can accomplish now.

    Blacks who go through life expecting that there is some specific day in the future where racism will cease to exist and white privilidge will instanstly disappear are living a fantasy. Some day white privilidge will disappear but it is a building process and not an event or specific objective to reach. With every generation White Privilige is made smaller and racism receeds futher back into the dark corners of society, blacks today are much better off than they were 40 years ago and will be much better off 40 years from now than they are today, but the process for bringing about that change is different now than it was in 1968. In the 50s and 60s it made sense to petition the government for redress of racial inequality issues simply because most of those racial issues were enshrined in the laws of our country.

    Now, however, those laws are gone and the advancement of racial equality is about proving the stereotypes wrong by simply doing what it is that is said can’t be done.

  75. 75
    kwAwk says:

    ….and Kynn, if you think my perception of Jesse Jackson Sr is wrong it does little to no good to tell me to go read his speeches or to go to his website.

    If you truely have a better understanding than I do of the Rev. Jackson you should be able to point me to specifific speeches and specific articles and specific places on his website that will change my perceptions of him. I looked at the website and found that Rainbow PUSH is a political action organization as opposed to being a community leadership organization.

    Your inability to do that so far would seem to point that you are unwilling yourself to explore the notion that my perceptions of Jackson are correct. You dismiss them and me as wrong while not being able to provide evidence.

  76. 76
    Kynn says:

    There are more gains in terms of helping blacks in this country overcome what ails them by working in the communities which are left behind, inside out, to help them better take advantage of the opportunities that are out there, instead of focusing on this issue of white privilidge which as you define is pretty much subconcious racism.

    Okay, so you’re saying that subconscious racism should not be fought?

    Whyever not?

    Blacks who go through life expecting that there is some specific day in the future where racism will cease to exist and white privilidge will instanstly disappear are living a fantasy. Some day white privilidge will disappear but it is a building process and not an event or specific objective to reach. With every generation White Privilige is made smaller and racism receeds futher back into the dark corners of society, blacks today are much better off than they were 40 years ago and will be much better off 40 years from now than they are today, but the process for bringing about that change is different now than it was in 1968.

    Oh, okay, so you see that there’s an inexorable march toward eliminating racism and white privilege that will just continue on by itself, if we are just patient?

    I suggest you read Sundown Towns, a book I’m currently halfway through; you’ll learn a lot about American history. The author makes the very valid point that it isn’t true that with every generation, civil rights advance and racism recedes. In fact, the exact opposite happened between 1890 and 1940 — equality for blacks got considerably worse in this country, compared to the post-war Reconstruction era. Barack Obama was only the 5th black senator — the others were in 1870, 1875 … then 1967 and 1993. Why the gap from 1881 to 1967 (end of Blanche K. Bruce’s term to start of Edward Brooke’s)? Because things got quantitatively worse for African-Americans in that generation, not better.

    In short, there’s no reason to assume that anything will get better by itself.

    More on RainbowPUSH in the next reply.

  77. 77
    Kynn says:

    PS: You do know it’s kind of twee[*] for you to lecture black people on how they should or should not be fighting racism, right? You’re filling up all my white privilege bingo slots pretty quickly on this card.

    [*] Yes, I do think it’s quaintly cute, in a privileged way.

  78. 78
    Kynn says:

    So, you wanted to talk about RainbowPUSH Coalition, and what they’re doing or not doing.

    Let’s start with their web site on their programs page linked on the main navigation under "RainbowPUSH Coalition." From there, we can find the following activities listed, although some of their web pages are incomplete:

    *Community Services
    * AIDS Initiative
    * Food Giveaway
    * Prison Outpost
    * World Peace
    * Kids Care (health insurance for children)
    * Voter Information
    * International Trade Bureau
    * 1000 Churches Connected
    * Hurricane Katrina Relief
    * PUSH for Excellence (education, approached as a community effort)
    * Senior Citizens

    Note: Seeing as how many non-profits struggle with finding the time, in addition to performing their normal duties, to properly maintain their web site, I’m more than willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and not just assume that since there’s no page about their AIDS Initiative, they must not be doing anything. Can we agree on that? If not, here are some examples of news stories that list Jesse Jackson’s public commitment to helping people with HIV/AIDS: 2005, 2000, 2003, 1987.

  79. 79
    Kynn says:

    Next, I looked at the events listed on the Rainbow PUSH calendar. This month and next month, they’ve got listed:

    * Public Policy Institute & Telecommunications Project Annual Symposium 2008 (titled "Keeping Pace with Technological Change"), Dec 11, 2008
    * 12th Annual Rainbow PUSH Wall Street Project Economic Summit (titled "Fallout from the Bailout: A New Day in Washington"), Jan 13-16, 2009

    What about recent months? The calendar for November only lists election day, Nov 4. But here’s what went on at Rainbow PUSH in October:

    * 9th Annual Automotive Symposium (titled "The Diversity Role in the Global Automotive Industry"; agenda), October 1-3, 2008
    * 9th Annual Creating Opportunity Conference (agenda), October 17-18, 2008

  80. 80
    Kynn says:

    Okay, I can’t post my reply to you here because there are too many links. So I will post it elsewhere and provide a link here.

    I actually spent a lot of time on this — more than I know I should have — so I would appreciate it if you would actually read it.

  81. 81
    Kynn says:

    kwAwk (and anyone else interested), here’s my long reply, with hyperlinks to you.

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