Well, as close as I have ever been to India anyway. Halef and I drove up to Lilburn to check out the BAPS Shri Swaminarayan Mandir. It is the largest traditional Vedic Hindu Temple of stone and marble to be constructed in the United States. The company he worked for did the landscape architecture.
Click the image for a high resolution view.
I’ve never quite seen anything like this. In fact, it was a little overwhelming. The detail in the carving of each piece of stone was incredible. I’ve heard it took 900 artisans to pull this off. The work was done in India, and the pieces were shipped to Atlanta and put together like a giant jigsaw puzzle. Unfortunately, we were not permitted to take pictures inside – unfortunate because, while you’re generally impressed with the outside, the inside will blow you away. We’re going to go back at night so we can see it lit by floodlights.
Update: Next week, we’re going to visit the new al-Farooq mosque in Atlanta. I’ll bring my camera, just in case I spot a certain presidential Candidate.
olcrazypete
My wife and I were driving through that area a few months ago and just happened to notice it, had no idea it was there. It looks amazing. Crazy thing is its surrounded by plain ol’ suburban atlanta strip malls and sprawl. We ate at a little chinese place across the road from it.
Had to look it up when we got home, there is a good writeup of it here
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/05/arts/design/05temp.html?fta=y&pagewanted=all
Definitely go back and look at night. Amazing sight. Can just non-affiliated methodists like me go into it to sightsee?
P
Michael D.
Yep. Anyone can go in. There are certain off-limits sections, and certain sections are only open at specific times. I would say that, because of the time we went today, we probably only saw half of it.
AhabTRuler
I’ve been here, which was really cool.
Plus, I got to go to a place called Neasdon.
dr. luba
I’ve spent a lot of time in south India, and have seen my share of truly amazing temples. This one seems quite nice, especially as the "tank" seems to be full of water (difficult in parched south India).
The Hindus are very open religiously, and welcome visitors (except to the innermost sanctum, the holy of holies). As and obvious foreigner, I was often escorted around and always offered hospitality.
Hindus, to their credit, do not proselytize, and have so many gods that it is possible to find your own niche within the religion.
Sadly, politicization of Hinduism has occurred in India (much like the Christianist movement here in America), and violence is often directed against Dalits (untouchables), especially those who have converted to Christianity (which many do because of the caste system and their position outside of it). Other times it is directed against Muslims, leading to bloody confrontations.
Like those on our right who feel that only white christians (and only the "right" type of christians) can be real Americans, the BJP and others promulgate the belief that only Hindus can be real Indians. This is sad, as, in south, the various religions have gotten on quite well in the past. (Note that much of southern Indian christianity is indigenous, and not due to recent missionary work. It traces its roots back to the apostle Thomas.)
The Christians in south India are generally very well behaved, and get along well with others. This is usually true, though, in those countries where Christians are in the minority. They do tend to cause problems when they are in the majority.
Martin
My wife went into our new local Mormon church just before they opened it. (It’s more than a regular church, it serves an entire region of churches and has some larger significance.) She said it was unbelievable inside.
I’m now thankful it was built. Probably soaked up a shitload of money that didn’t get dumped into YES on 8 crap.
dr. luba
One more thing–the gorgeous white marble appearance is not the traditional appearance of temples. Like the statues of ancient Greek temples, the sculptures were usually painted with bright colors. Some older, more historical temples, are not painted any more, but active temples usually are, especially the gopuram.
Indians abroad seem to have gone for the clean white look.
Rajan
olcrazypete,
I am sure it is open to everyone. See –
http://www.swaminarayan.org/
Bobzim
These places always impress the hell out of me (OK, maybe not that much). I toured Temple Square once and it was jaw-dropping.
But I always have this nagging feeling that the various deities are thinking that the money spent on these edifices could feed, clothe, and provide health care for a WHOLE LOT of people.
liberatemeiexinfernis
i think building big and mighty temples is all nice and great, but with millions in India suffering and dying of hunger and poverty or with hundreds losing their homes here in the States, its takes a lot chutzpah for an elite section of Indian society, bent on displaying their religious pompousity, to build lavish temples, when that money could be going to the sick, hungry and dying. As we speak farmers in India are committing suicides by the hundreds everyday because they are deep in debt and their daughters turn to prostitution to feed their families. What, Ram and Ganesh couldnt do without a simple temple? Hardly any of that money that American companies send to India trickles down to the poor. The wealthy class in India (the ones most obssessed with teaching Muslims a lesson and one most obssessed with displaying their religiosity) have learned the lessons of their American capitalists and money grabbing tactics well.
And similar indictment goes to not just Hindus, but any faith that thinks building fancy churches and temples are strong indicators to one’s devotion to God.
Comrade Jake
Make sure to see the Taj Mahal if you ever get a chance to visit India. Amazing place.
protected static
@dr. luba: I think it also depends at least in part upon the specific region… In Kerala, the temples we saw were typically pretty subdued; in Karnataka, vibrant color was more the norm. The Lilburn temple’s style looks more like Mughal-influenced northern architecture than anything we saw in the south.
It’s such a huge place, though; I know we saw only a tiny sliver of the south.
Ted Tyszka
My wife and I just saw the one in Houston, this past August. It really is a beautiful sight. We hope to go back next August, when they celebrate the 5th anniversary of its construction.
Ted
Steve
Hey, if you really love your god, you want him to have a nice cage to live in.
Unrepentent Dennis - SGMM
Well I never been to Spain
But I kinda like the music
Say the ladies are insane there
And they sure know how to use it
They don’t abuse it
Never gonna lose it
I can’t refuse it
Well I never been to England
But I kinda like the Beatles
So, I headed for Las Vegas
Only made it out to Needles
I got to feel it
Must be near it
Oh, it feels so good, Lord
Feels so good
Well I never been to heaven
But I’ve been to Oklahoma
Well they tell me I was born there
But I really don’t remember
In Oklahoma, not Arizona
What does it matter?
What does it matter?
– Hoyt Axton
GraphicBass
Nice to see someone likes the new neigbors we’ve got here in Lilburn! I live about 1/2 mile from the temple and watched it being built from the ground up. It was quite a sight as it was being built, and it’s magnificent now, as you can see. Huge tourist attraction for our little corner of the Atlanta metro area.
Michael D.
@GraphicBass: I think you are lucky, and fuck the assholes who think that thang don’t belong in that thar neighborhood.
I think it’s beautiful
Michael D.
Oh, and I think it would be awesome if they built a mosque next door!! That would be some shit-disturbin’! You betcha!
the lies to nowhere
It looks like it’s made out of pure sugar. Very nice. Unfortunately, it’s bit too far away for me to drive to, about 800 miles too far.
libarbarian
Send Palin’s Witch-Hunter!!!!!
foo
especially those who have converted to Christianity (which many do because of the caste system and their position outside of it)
No, they do it because the portegese and other christians did min-holocaust of hindus in colonia times, typing hindus "unbelievers/heathens" to cannons and blasting away was quite common in goa.
Anyway, I don’t see any holy swastikas on this temple. Hard to be a real Hindu temple without the holy swastika, that’s like having a christian church without a cross. Some south indian (dravidian) temples are like that too but that’s an anamoly and not the rule..
foo
many typos in the previous post, "typing" should be "tying" ,"min" should be "mini" and of colonia is colonial.
Bobzim
I didn’t know Hoyt Axton wrote that.
I do know that Hoyt’s mom wrote "Heartbreak Hotel" and was a part of Stax Records.
cain
@liberatemeiexinfernis:
Why does every instance of India or even indians spending money always lead back to how Indians spending money on the poor and what not? Jeez.. Consider this:
* When indians are building these temples here.. artisans are being contracted over in India, so these guys get to have some kind of job and artisans are actually employed.
* Corruption is the leading cause of farmers and the lower class getting the short end of the stick. I think we have money, but when we spend it disappears into the pockets of the local political parties. My father-in-law tells me that when conducting business you need to bribe every fucking party because they’ll just cause trouble. It’s fucking bullshit. Political reform is what needs to be done. BJP is actually better than fucking Congress I. I’ve watched these fuckers since the 70s, and they are the main cause of most of the socialist policies since independence. It’s why getting a phone in the 80s took years. Obviously, throwing money is not the solution. But getting some civic sense would be something Indians can learn from Western society. Seeing the crap of what an overly socialist country is what turned me into a free market believer. (well most of the time)
* Those shanty towns you see in cities are the most awesome tax shelters. Those bastards aren’t paying fucking shit in taxes. No property taxes no, nothing. Cheap fucks. That’s why they might be living in filth on the outside, but living quite comfortable iwth cable, flat screen tv, the fucking works on the inside. they don’t give a shit. Politicians also pay to truck those guys to vote and even bribe them for their votes. Worse, they have greater influence than the middle class since they have the advantage of numbers. So govt policies tend to favor them. Again, the "poor" taking advantage of the rest of us.
Things aren’t that simple or cut and dry and again political reform is what is needed. That is what is needed badly in India. It’s happening, but very slowly. Maybe if we can once again kick Congress I out as I see yet again they’re fucking over the country. Fuck them. IF you’ve seen Indian elections it’s a sight to behold. You thought republicans wer good at identity politics, you gotta see Congress I.
As for the crap about the money American companies are paying hardly going to the poor. What a bunch of crap. The middle class has exploded and everybody is benefiting from that. The poor class is getting paied a lot more in the cities. Hell they’re getting quite uppity hearing my relatives talk. My uncle can’t even hire workers in South India because of the housing boom. He has to get migrants from North India.
Again, all those expose’s about India you listen to on TV only tells part of the story.
As for Muslims and Christians. The most decent state (IMHO) is Kerala which has a 100% literacy rate. While a little more socialist they have their heads screwed on straight for the most part. Hindus, Christians and muslims live well together. Overall, thanks to all the wealth people have been living quite well. India has turned less socially conservative (jeez, look at bollywood, bleah).
cain
protected static
@foo: one of the weirder juxtapositions we saw during our trip came while wandering around Jew Town in Cochin and seeing swastikas next to Stars of David in the iron grilles on the windows.
Natascha
BAPS are kind of like the Mormons of Hinduism.
I visited the BAPS temple in Houston, having gone to several other Hindu temples. The beautiful temple doesn’t do much to hide their disdain for women, who have to pray behind a velvet rope while the men freely roam about.
A relative of mine was getting abused by her husband, and she turned to BAPS leadership to ask what she should do, and they advised her that a good wife takes whatever her husband gives her.
Limniade
Think about it this way: every culture has some of its finest masterpieces centered around religion. Think of Michelangelo’s Pieta and Sistine Chapel, the cathedral of Notre Dame in France, and the pyramids in Gaza, just to name a few.
While the efficacy of the money spent is arguable, I would far rather the money be spent making beautiful things that celebrate what humans are capable of creating, than on bombs and wars that celebrate what humans are capable of destroying.
Chuck Butcher
@Limniade:
It’s really astonishing how many bombs and bullets get sent on their way because of what is behind those beautiful walls.
Sorry to take another tack on the looks of the building but that is my business and I don’t much care for that one. I admire craftsmanship but this suffers from ornamentation ceasing to be ornament and becoming the entire point and ends being a jumble. This isn’t about having a Western eye because the are Indian works I really like.
I’m not sure if it would annoy me enough being across the street that I’d move – but there’s pretty good chance of it. I’m pretty sure tourists would finish me off.
Michael D.
@Natascha:
Hmmm, I didn’t notice that. I saw women freely mingling and praying with men there.
AmIDreaming
There’s a temple not far from where we live, one of the several Sri Venkateswara temples in the States. I think they’re all pretty similar in design. While not in the same league as Shri Swaminarayan Mandir, the temple here is an astonishing presence in the landscape. Likewise the couple of others I’ve seen.
I love to take first-time visitors, usually New York City cavedwellers, past the temple without bringing special attention to it, preferably at night. Most of the time they have long-held preconceptions of what the area is like which are in the process of being undermined anyway. Catching sight of an illuminated temple through the trees is a sure way of finishing the job.
bago
See, now goa is the perfect example of how you drive a bribe done right. You get your electro heads coming out of the couch to support the night’s activities while funneling into the same pot the contributions of the local hippie jam band to pay the same bribe. With this total you buy a beach and rock it all night.
Equal Opportunity Cynic
Bob Barr is a closet Muslim? Who knew?
Natascha
@ Michael D.
I think either once or twice a day when the monks come out for prayer in the main prayer hall, men and women have to be segregated. Outside of the main hall, men and women can mingle.
Ravi J
As someone from India, I agree and disagree with some posts above.
Swaminarayana is a ‘Gujarati’ organization. Gujarat is a state in India – and an industrial and commercial at that one.
While, in rest of India, most of temples are austere, most Gujarati temples, both in India and abroad, are lavish and pompous. They display more of a wealth than spirituality. The BAPS temple is one example of such. This is also similar to ISKCON temples – which serve no spirituality but just grandeur.
Jordan Fry
What does BAPS stand for? And what does the rest of that name ("Shri Swaminarayan Mandir") mean?
patel
shri swaminarayan mandir means the temple of the god swaminarayan, the thing about giving all that money to poor..i disagree because the temple gives free medicine and anything and gives more donation and service than any other. they have gotten world record for the service to poor and largest number of temples in world.