Wolverines!

Concerning ACORN, the quote of the day goes to Pennsylvania Republican State Chairman Robert Gleason:

With the election being only a couple of weeks away and with more and more incidents of voter fraud coming to light, we don’t believe that we can trust the results of this election

Gleason is the perfect symbol of the crazytown direction that the GOP is heading, up to and including his touching failure to distinguish registration fraud from vote fraud. It fits right in with escalation on several other fronts: violence against ACORN, apocalyptic statements by John McCain in the last debate, hate speech and assault against reporters.

I doubt that Robert Gleason is really as stupid as this crusade makes him look. People like him are too well plugged in for that. From McCain on down the GOP leadership is casting around for some excuse to blunt the shame when Democrats hang them from a hook by the underwear. If GOP front groups carpet the country with enough of anti-voter lawsuits then they might save a couple of competitive districts. John McCain and Bob Gleason aren’t breaking any laws by acting like delusional sore losers.

In other words, people like Bob Gleason who consciously undermine the election are just as innocent as radio hosts who fed racial hate in Rwanda. Gleason didn’t phone in death threats or attack ACORN workers. He didn’t kick a reporter to the ground at a campaign rally. It isn’t Bob Gleason’s problem if some party faithful take his words more seriously than he does.

I know it sounds crazy, but imagine for a second that you bought everything that Gleason and John McCain said. The election was just stolen by a sinister coalition. The presidential election is therefore invalid, the new president’s every official act is an affront to the Constitution. What should you do? Squishy liberals might bitch about it over expensive beer, or write a diary at Kos. Conservatives are made of sterner stuff. Right? Scenarios like that move people to stockpile guns. Anyone who takes Gleason and the Republican candidate for president seriously is living in Ruby Ridge territory.

Peak Wingnut my ass. We’re living in a golden age of sense and calm compared to what comes next.






177 replies
  1. 1
    Tzal says:

    What’s the chance that someone gets murdered before 11/4?

  2. 2

    Let them try it. I think they will discover that liberals are not as squishy and that they are not as tough as they think.

  3. 3

    touching failure to distinguish registration fraud from vote fraud

    Yes, and ….. ACORN does not submit registrations. It submits applications to register. To my knowledge, most of the problem applications are known because ACORN flagged them, and turned them in, which it is required by law in most states to do.

    In addition …. I know of no known case of any organized "voter fraud" that has ever been carried out in this country. None. Does anyone have an example of this?

  4. 4
    SGEW says:

    What’s the chance that someone gets murdered before 11/4?

    As macabre as it is, and I sincerely hope that no one is hurt during this political process (knocks wood, touches iron), but a murder would resolve my MegaPoliticalNarrative interpretation of this election.

    If someone is murdered: Shakespearean Historical Tragedy.

    If someone is mutilated and/or commits suicide: Traditional Greek Tragedy.

    If no one dies: Performance Art.

  5. 5
  6. 6
    Incertus says:

    @ThymeZoneThePlumber: You pretty much nailed it, TZTP. It’s really disturbing that ACORN is being investigated (again) for not only doing their job, but for doing it better than they’re required to.

    And John, a little help in the moderation queue? Just trying to change my handle a bit.

  7. 7

    Incurious dumfuck for President who abrogates the 4th Amendment as a matter of policy: KEWL! He’s savin’ us from terrists!

    Skinny black guy with funny name, and well respected former editor of Harvard Law Review: Holy Shit! The Four Horsemen are on the door step, honey!

    Shorter Wingnut: I don’t take orders from no n*gger.

    Yea, Wingnuttia is just getting warmed up.

  8. 8
    Brian J says:

    John McCain and the group of assholes known as his Republican colleagues and friends in congress can try to push this aside and go back to being chummy with the media once this is over, but I hope that we will never let them forget what he is bringing to this election. Maybe it’s because this is only the second election I’m voting in and only the third I paid any attention to–I’m a young guy, in case it wasn’t obvious–but I don’t think this sort of stuff is par for the course. No, most Republicans are phoning in death threats to voter registration groups, trying to cash doubt on results before the polls open, or trying to incite violence against the Democratic nominee, but it doesn’t take a lot to turn a few nutcases into active and dangerous nutcases. Even if only modestly, he’s fanning the flames of this insanity. If anything happens, his fingerprints will be all over it.

  9. 9
    Samwise says:

    What’s the chance that someone gets murdered before 11/4?

    It’s already happening…

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/.....index.html

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/......shooting/

  10. 10
    SGEW says:

    Scenarios like that move people to stockpile guns

    Um . . . not to be too snarky, but (judging by recent threads here and elsewhere) there are a lot of catalysts that move people to stockpile guns. See, e.g., the current financial crisis (which also moves people to learn to can their own food, something I have no problem with). Ahem.

    More seriously:

    I kind of, almost hope that the final stump of the Republican party, post-election, will go completely batshit poo-flinging bomb-throwing racist murdering crazytown. Then (speaking of Ruby Ridge) be officially be labeled "domestic terrorists" (appropriately, as they are murdering loonies), and thrown into th’ clink for the rest of their lives. Such irony. So apropos. They spend the rest of their lives looking at their bunkmate, incredulously saying "I’m the terrorist?" Michelle Bachmann runs as the Republican presidential candidate in 2016 and gets 4% of the vote (Chuck Baldwin will get 9%). House Minority Leader Ron Paul (Libertarian – TX) will lead a crusade against the Federal Reserve, while Senate Minority Leader Bernie Sanders (Socialist – VT) works on the new bi-partisan energy bill.

    . . .

    I am infected with too much hope. I blame Obama.

    Ah, pathos.

  11. 11
    Ed Drone says:

    I see that Obama’s campaign is asking Atty. General Mukasey to use the already-appointed special prosecutor (working on the attorney-filing scandal) to investigate the GOP-coordinated attack on ACORN. In other words, they’re going for the attack, and ARE NOT GOING TO STAND FOR IT.

    Nice change for a change.

    Ed

  12. 12
    mclaren says:

    The time has come to ask that troubling question:

    Why do the American people hate America?

  13. 13
    SGEW says:

    Hmmm. Maybe ThymeZone has a point. I have no idea why my last comment went into moderation . . . was there a bad word?

    I did mention R o n P a u l. Is the PaulTard filter still on?

  14. 14
    SarahPA says:

    Ugh. This is the same PA GOP that just last week issued a press release titled: Obama – A Terrorist’s Best Friend. I can’t believe how cavalierly they throw this crap around.

  15. 15
    SGEW says:

    Grr. And now I can’t edit my (still moderated) post, to correct a misplaced piece of pithyness. Poo.

    Anyhoo:

    Why do the American people hate America?

    Because of Michelle Bachmann. SATSQ.

  16. 16
    Rick says:

    Hey, when they lose, are we allowed to tell them to ‘get over it’?

    Heh.

  17. 17
    SGEW says:

    @Ed Drone: The brilliant thing about it is that they obviously planned to drop this as soon as the SCOTUS ruled on the Ohio case. It’s just the start, bet on it. One thing Obama’s got on his side, it’s the lawyers.

  18. 18

    To me the most outrageous part of this GOP voter fraud scam is the use of DOJ and the FBI to advance it.

    This is impeachable stuff AFAIC. I have not been much of an impeachment supporter heretofore, but this is changing my mind.

    I see this as criminal abuse of power.

  19. 19

    Not only can we tell them to "get over it" but we get to ask them how it feels to be called "sore losers."

    Of course that requires that they don’t use false allegations against ACORN to distract everyone from how they plan to actually steal the election– via widespread disenfranshisement and purging eligible voters– again.

  20. 20
    Fern says:

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    Plus I believe Obama is aiming for a victory so resounding that not even a wingnut can blame it on voter fraud.

  21. 21
    Steve V says:

    I actually think there’s a decent chance that after he loses (assuming that’s the way it goes), McCain will try in the immediate aftermath to smooth things out a little bit. It’s McCain’s pattern — always apologizes for his screwups after it doesn’t matter any more. But he won’t go as far as he could go, Palin won’t go along with him, and the fire will be raging so out of control by that time that his puny little voice won’t even make a dent. Oh well, he’ll have whatever happens in the coming years off his conscience, I guess.

  22. 22
    Emma Anne says:

    Those of us paying close attention during the Clinton years knew that this sort of crazy stuff would be happening again. At least Obama seems better prepared for it.

  23. 23

    @Rick: You better fucking believe I’m going to say it.

    Sweet! Thanks, John.

  24. 24
    4tehlulz says:

    @Fern: It’s not about reality; it’s just an excuse to blame something other than their moronic policies and politics.

    And if a few people actually take it seriously, well, whocouldanode?

  25. 25

    @Fern:

    Plus I believe Obama is aiming for a victory so resounding that not even a wingnut can blame it on voter fraud.

    I think you missed Tim’s point. You see it will ALWAYS be a sham of an election to the wingnuts. ALWAYS. How could it be that their beloved country is now being presided over by a terrorist symp? How?

    O o o o h … whats that sound? That’s the sound of wingnuttia warming up for its biggest temper tantrum ever. (The word on the street is that thousands of supermarkets have seen a run on Cheetos and Mountain Dew. Whoa! This might get interesting. I’m personally looking forward to Malkin in a cheerleader outfit (again) and Rush moving to France.)

  26. 26
    SGEW says:

    I have not been much of an impeachment supporter heretofore, but this is changing my mind.

    Fo reals? The "extraordinary rendition," torture, and murder of innocent civilians, the war of occupation based on false pretenses, the warrantless wiretapping of pacifist anti-war groups, and the stealing of two elections were not "criminal abuse of power"?

    Or are you saying that this is changing your mind over the efficacy, rather than the inherent merit, of exercising the Articles of Impeachment? Mind you, the politicization of the Justice Dept. probably has the best shot for real legal action against the Bush Administration (and the Republican party in toto, Mssrs. McCain, Bush, Cheney, Rove, and Schmidt included). Paper trails, lots o’ testimony (boy those ex-DOJ folks are pissed*), and an issue that all people can feel (righteously!) super upset over. Voter Fraud Is Wrong: that’s a pretty bi-partisan issue (as opposed to torture, for some reason).

    *Simple Rule # 3: Do Not Piss Off Your Own Lawyers

  27. 27
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    Those of us paying close attention during the Clinton years knew that this sort of crazy stuff would be happening again. At least Obama seems better prepared for it.

    Yeah, ya gotta think Obama won’t be indiscriminately running around asking chicks to suck his cock. I could be wrong of course but he appears to have more class..

  28. 28
    Fern says:

    @The Grand Panjandrum:

    I guess my wingnut-comprehension capabilities are limited.

  29. 29
    John D says:

    @Fern: There is precisely ZERO chance of them not blaming this on voter fraud, or any other bullshit excuse. It is a core tenet of modern conservatisim that it CANNOT fail.

    It is unpossible for a conservative to lose, ergo McCain is not conservative enough/the Dems cheated/the votes were improperly counted/etc. Bank on this.

  30. 30
    Comrade Jake says:

    @Fern:

    Plus I believe Obama is aiming for a victory so resounding that not even a wingnut can blame it on voter fraud.

    You’re assuming we’re discussing people with critical thinking skills. Quite the contrary. An Obama landslide will do even more to convince them the election was stolen or the negro Senator used some kind of trickery. They won’t be able to believe their lying eyes. Just wait and see.

  31. 31
    Jay Severin Has A Small Pen1s says:

    Man…now we’re gonna have to start importing democracy from overseas. That’s more money in the hands of people that don’t like us very much.

  32. 32
    Comrade Stuck says:

    Peak Wingnut my ass. We’re living in a golden age of sense and calm compared to what comes next.

    Absolutely agree, and very good post on the power of passive incitement. Not really all that passive, but the fingerprints are smudged and it’s not illegal, up to a point.

    To tell the truth, I’m not all that concerned with the wingnuts down in the deep south. They’ve had their battles with the National Guard and Fibbies launching invasions into their front yards. Blacks and whites have made a shaky peace with one another about the really bad stuff, and whites really don’t want the Federallies to re-invade.

    It’s places like where I grew up in the Bible Belt, that are pretty much all white or mostly so, that I fear the worst stuff will arise. They have not been around the black community, or any minority community, to actually have a good sense on being tolerant of a black man being their president. It’s mostly small towns I’m talking about, It’s like a coup de ta for them, and they are being personally consumed by their irrational fears about what an Obama Presidency would bring. And Sarah the hater is stoking those irrational fears as are other elements of the Mccain campaign. It’s becoming like a run away train that Mccain seems unwilling or unable to stop, assuming it can be stopped. And an overload of fear can make seemingly peaceful folks do crazy things.

  33. 33
    demkat620 says:

    This might get interesting. I’m personally looking forward to Malkin in a cheerleader outfit (again) and Rush moving to France.)

    No, no, no. Rush would never move to France. The hookers and drugs are too expensive there.

  34. 34
    Comrade Jake says:

    I suspect Rush is actually looking forward to an Obama presidency more than most. Malkin too. Nothing increases ratings like a prime opportunity to engage in peak wingnut mode.

    Plus, how else is their Sarah doll going to run for POTUS in 2012?

  35. 35
    SGEW says:

    Rush would never move to France. The hookers and drugs are too expensive there.

    Not to mention that Mr. Limbaugh could very well be arrested for hate speech in Europe. Heh heh heh.

  36. 36

    @Comrade Jake: You know, the thing that really struck me when I was reading Nixonland was just how violent that era was. Riots everywhere, all the time it seemed. Today must seem positively pedestrian by comparison.

  37. 37
    Trinity says:

    I am a liberal.

    I have a shotgun.

    like they say… "don’t start none, won’t be none".

    These wingnuts are crazy and I won’t stand for foolishness.

  38. 38

    With the election being only a couple of weeks away and with more and more incidents of voter fraud coming to light, we don’t believe that we can trust the results of this election

    And we’ll sulk and cry and roll around in our own dookie for at least four years. It will be fa-byoo-lous!

    Conservatives are made of sterner stuff. Right? Scenarios like that move people to stockpile guns.

    Uh, Tim F. if you think things would be different under a McPalin regime you’re sadly mistaken. Vice President Palin wouldn’t StFu about UN-AMERICAN CITY DWELLERS ALSO SKULL FUCKING THE AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE,THOUGH. She’d spend four years winding them up every time Congress didn’t grab ankles for McPOW.

    But if they want to spend four years in their basements stripping and cleaning their guns, good for them.

  39. 39

    @demkat620: Ha ha! That’s right. I forgot he likes "golf trips" to the Dominican Republic.

    @Fern: No worries. You were just giving them the benefit of the doubt. I’m just a cynical old bastard whose seen these lying rats up close for too long.

  40. 40
    Fern says:

    @SGEW:

    In this country (Canada) his station could lose its license to broadcast for the kind of rhetoric he uses.

  41. 41
    QDC says:

    The voter fraud scam is going to backfire hugely if Obama wins. Let the repubs bitch and moan for a while, then appoint an unimpeachable bipartisan commission (Sandra Day O’Conner, etc.) to go over the results with a fine-toothed comb. There is, of course, no substance to the charges, so they will turn up a few isolated incidents, but give the election a clean bill.

    Now’s where the fun starts. Dems should act very concerned about registration fraud, and should solve the problem by putting the federal government in the registration business. Make ACORN unnecessary by making sure that very time you come within ten feet of a government office, you get registered to vote. "The only safe way to handle it is to make sure the non-partisan government officials are in charge," we’ll say. Show up at the polling place with an ID? We’ll handle your registration right then and there! "Much safer than complicated forms that are prone to tampering," we’ll say. Submit a tax return? Registered to vote! Get a job? Well, you have to fill out those tax forms anyway; since your employer is verifying your identity, lets get you registered. "Much safer than trusting some partisan group like ACORN!" Whatever voter access measures dems have been dreaming of all these years, spin it as a measure to reduce registration fraud and implement it. The sky’s the limit.

  42. 42
    Fern says:

    @QDC:

    YES!

    A similar system works just fine here – except the non-partisan individuals hired by Elections Canada go from door to door to update the voters’ list – plus if you get missed, you show up at the poll with the required identification and get yourself put on the list.

  43. 43
    Michelle says:

    I can’t decide. Will those of us with Obama stickers on our cars in red states be the target, or will those who have Obama stickers on their cars in blue states with a few red staters be more at risk?

    My favorite wingnut blogger (in my red state neighborhood) is actively asking her readers about where to buy a gun and where shooting ranges are.

    I’m not worried about it. She seems a bit lazy.

    Which way will it go?

  44. 44

    @QDC: I say throw in a requirement that automatically restores a felon’s right to vote once he or she is released. I love that plan.

  45. 45
  46. 46
    Fern says:

    @Far Left American Hater Incertus:

    For how long do they lose their right to vote? For ever?

    Strikes me as ridiculous.

  47. 47

    I have a relative with a college education, retired now, living in FLA. Last spring there was an election in one district where the voting machines showed that 120% of the electorate had voted. I said to her, "You see, you can’t trust those voting machines."

    She said it was the illegal aliens.

    I swear.

  48. 48
    SGEW says:

    For how long do they lose their right to vote? For ever?

    Depends on the state.

    Strikes me as ridiculous.

    Yes, rather. Don’t get me started.

    Also:

    In this country (Canada) his station could lose its license to broadcast for the kind of rhetoric he uses.

    Damn Northern Fascists! With your anti-free-speech laws! Watch, with your continued Conservative government, soon there’ll be liberals fleeing Canada to come south to lefty Obamanation! (joking, somewhat).

  49. 49
    Fern says:

    @SGEW:

    Damn Northern Fascists! With your anti-free-speech laws! Watch, with your continued Conservative government, soon there’ll be liberals fleeing Canada to come to lefty Obamanation! (joking, somewhat).

    Please, no!

    Thank god for minority governments – somewhat reduces the damage they can do.

  50. 50
    Glenn says:

    Imagine the GOP of all parties screaming voter fraud!!! LOL!! This from the party of the electronic voting machine no less. What really pisses off these vandals is that someone might horn in on their game. Of course it’s just a cover for the massive wholesale variety of actual vote tampering via these tricky machines that they specialize in. It’s also too, in advance dis-credit a massive Obama landslide and too plant a "stab in the back" myth in the radical rights mind. If Obama wins all we will hear about on FIXED news and the crazy ass Right wing talk radio is how he STOLE it through a Commie conspiracy and massive Voter fraud. This little ACORN ( no pun intended) is being planted now to sow the whirlwind of revolt for the next four yrs.

  51. 51

    @Fern: I think it’s fair to say that felons need to lose their right to vote while they’re in jail. After that, they need to regain those rights, and become full citizens again.

  52. 52
    Comrade Stuck says:

    I can’t decide. Will those of us with Obama stickers on our cars in red states be the target, or will those who have Obama stickers on their cars in blue states with a few red staters be more at risk?

    Probably the first scenario is more likely. Wingnuts at least have the animal instinct to know when they”re outnumbered. It will start out as vandalism, and already has. It will move to the leaders of right wing towns and villages passing ordinances of their belief, that since the election was stolen, we don’t consider Obama a legitimate president and call for his impeachment. Sound familiar. But unlike liberal towns who did this with Bush, there will be overtones from wingnut leaders that a little violence should be expected with the situation being as it is.

    That will lead to more and more winger groups being formed, some anti-black, some anti-commie, and some anti-government. But all will evolve towards taking matters into their own hands. There won’t be huge peaceful protests like we do, or very many protests at all. Because at heart these people are afraid, always afraid of anything different than they are, and they won’t expose themselves because they are basically cowards.

    Maybe all that will come of it will be a lot of hot rhetoric and limited actual violence– with much tribal dancing and hollering and whatnot. That depends on how things go with the economy, and the country as a whole. It doesn’t fill me with confidence that Obama can turn things around all that fast, due the fact that the Bush wingnuts have fucked it up so horribly much. Any which way, we have some very hard times ahead.

  53. 53
    SGEW says:

    @Fern

    Please, no!

    Why ever not? It’s rather warm* here, in many parts. Hot, even.

    Thank god for minority governments – somewhat reduces the damage they can do.

    Fine. Canada wins. Again. (grumble grumble). Oh, how I yearn for principled opposition parties.

    *"Warm" – like you’re inside (not cold), when you’re outside. It may confuse you, at first.

  54. 54
    JL says:

    @Michelle: Red States are at more risk, imo, because in blue states there would be witnesses who would testify against the defendent.

  55. 55
    r€nato says:

    off topic but I encourage all of you to read up on Bill Ayers in order to be better-equipped to educate/debunk wingnut friends, relatives and others:

    Bill Ayers

    Note the following:

    Bill Ayers never said ‘we should have bombed more’ with respect to his radical days, nor with respect to 9/11. What he said was, ‘I feel we didn’t do enough’ with respect to the Weather Underground’s anti-Vietnam War activism.
    These remarks were published as a result of several interviews Ayers gave to the media in order to promote the publication of his memoirs. Several of these interviews were published shortly before the 9/11 attacks. Since the interviews took place prior to 9/11, it is impossible for Ayers to have been making those remarks with regards to the 9/11 terrorist attacks

    of course, the GOP sleaze machine has no problem conflating all this together and adding a dollop of distortion on top.

    I’m in no way defending Ayers’ radical activities in the 60s (and I really shouldn’t have to say that…), but we should be clear that the McCain campaign is lying about Ayers’ past, especially including his recent past.

  56. 56
    SGEW says:

    Maybe all that will come of it will be a lot of hot rhetoric and limited actual violence—with much tribal dancing and hollering and whatnot. That depends on how things go with the economy, and the country as a whole.

    Suddenly, I have a notion as to why Obama voted yes on the FISA bill.

    He’s going to wiretap the fuck out of these people, nail ’em whenever they get close to violent, and completely delegitimize the Republican "base." Maybe.

    . . .

    (I can have hypocrisy viz a viz Civil Liberties? Now I’m . . . concerned).

  57. 57
    Fern says:

    @SGEW:

    Some of us tender northern flowers have a tendency to wilt in the heat.

    Plus, how else can we continue to assert moral superiority if we are not getting our asses frozen off?

  58. 58
    Fern says:

    @SGEW:

    I wondered at the time if he was saving his thunder for something worse. Like, oh, another war.

  59. 59
    Delia says:

    I can’t decide. Will those of us with Obama stickers on our cars in red states be the target, or will those who have Obama stickers on their cars in blue states with a few red staters be more at risk?

    In these days of the intertubes and the NSA it won’t much matter. I have an old college friend who now lives in Nevada while I live in Oregon. If (God forbid) McPalin wins, I have no doubt she’ll report me to Michelle Bachman’s new Stasi agency. If Nevada goes blue this election, her head will probably explode.

    Meanwhile, for your viewing enjoyment, a fake McCain endorsement from a fake teevee Hero.

  60. 60
    JL says:

    @r€nato: One of the best articles that I read about Ayers and Obama was on

    Education Weekly

    . They only keep articles online for a week for free and after that you have to pay. The site also had a good analysis of the candidates views on public education. FYI, On the Bachman scale I am 2/3rd’s anti-American.

  61. 61
    Josh Huaco says:

    Dave Neiwart is going to have to hire dozens of staff to keep up with the avalanche of crazy that’s set to befall our nation if Obama’s elected.

    I suggest y’all make his website, Orcinus, a daily read if you haven’t already. Good Stuff.

    Also, the Southern Poverty Law Center is another good source for what’s percolating in Winguttia.

  62. 62
    justinb says:

    Scenarios like that move people to stockpile guns

    Hell, I stockpile guns, and I’m sure as shit not voting for McCain. If somebody wants to start something, I’m not sure they’ll like what they get back.

    Of course, I’m deep within the crimson center of the universe – Utah.

  63. 63
    SGEW says:

    I’m in no way defending Ayers’ radical activities in the 60s (and I really shouldn’t have to say that…) . . . .

    (Disclosure: I campaign for Sen. Obama, but the following comment should in no way reflect the positions, beliefs, or policies of the Obama/Biden For President campaign)

    I defend Ayers’ radical activities. Kind of. He really, really shouldn’t have done it (bombs = stupid asshole), but I applaud him for having never, ever harmed anyone (except, arguably, tangentially through negligence (i.e., his friends’ accident), or by perpetuating a culture of violence, but that’s a different topic).

    Additionally, though I was not cognizant during the Vietnam War, I suspect that I would have been as radicalized as Prof. Ayers was over the indiscriminate murder of millions of human beings. I might very well have gone quite mad. In a way, I can’t blame him.

    Of course, he was guilty of a vast array of criminal offenses; no argument there. But he was exonerated by the law (with help from COINTELPRO, natch), and is a free citizen with no criminal record, who has renounced violence as a message, and is a respected academic scholar. Who’s still kind of a douchebag, from what I hear, but whatever.

  64. 64
    jcricket says:

    What QDC said x 1000. Let’s federalize voting standards. Eliminate touch screens and replace with all-vote-by-mail with optical scan paper ballots. Make robocalls illegal (they are in some states). Make it illegal to challenge a registration within 30 days of an election. Jack the fines for false challenges, spreading false information or election tampering up to 1 zillion and make them all felonies.

    All constitutional.

    There is no reason we can’t change the laws to drastically increase votings and disable the vast majority of Republican dirty tricks. We won’t get 100%, but I’d settle for 50-80%.

  65. 65
    SamFromUtah says:

    @justinb: Of course, I’m deep within the crimson center of the universe – Utah.

    [wave]

    Howdy.

  66. 66

    OT: Via Lawyers, Guns & Money.

    I remember when I used to suspect the GOP was just pretending to be ignorant.

    And I can hear some ditz on TV arguing that Palin was the smartest VP nominee evar. The person interviewing ditz made her back up to clarify what she meant by smartest.

    Ditz meant "Smartest pick."

    There you have it. Dragging some power-mad, bigot out from under a rock and letting her whip crowds of knuckledraggers into a racist frenzy is "smart."

  67. 67
    SGEW says:

    I am entirely on board with QDC and jcricket. This has the potential to change the political landscape on a scale that is almost incomprehensively awesome. And it is the perfect revenge for Karl Rove’s fascist fever dream of a "permanent Republican majority."

  68. 68
    Delia says:

    Both Keith and Rachel had a lot on the voter fraud and on Obama’s pushback tonight. And Rachel is calling the McCain-Palin comedy show appearances a charm offensive. On the theory that if nothing else works try being funny, I guess, even if you’re still being sleazy all day.

    Of course the big problem with this is that the Moose Queen has shown absolutely no sign whatsoever of any sense of humor. McCain apparently can deliver his lines if he’s not fuming at someone.

  69. 69
    SGEW says:

    Dragging some power-mad, bigot out from under a rock and letting her whip crowds of knuckledraggers into a racist frenzy is "smart."

    But in a way it was. There were people in McCain’s team who were absolutely convinced (and with good reason!) that McCain couldn’t get out the base. Without the base, you cannot win the election. Therefore: Palin, who excites the "base" like you cannot believe (see, e.g., Rich Lowry’s Starbursts Of Pleasure). John McCain has probably never, personally, addressed larger audiences than he has when Palin’s on his side. Looks like a winning, "smart" "strategy*" on their part.

    Of course, they forgot that they cannot win with only the base. Oops! Who knew that the Jews For Jesus End Times Alaskan Witch/Moose/Trooper Hunting V.P. pick would be reacted to negatively by the elderly Jews in Florida? Gosh.

    *It’s not a strategy, it’s a tactic, morans. Shouldn’t you know this shit by know?

  70. 70
    Comrade Jake says:

    Therefore: Palin, who excites the "base" like you cannot believe

    You can say that again. Jesus Fucking Christ.

  71. 71
    Comrade Stuck says:

    What QDC said x 1000. Let’s federalize voting standards. Eliminate touch screens and replace with all-vote-by-mail with optical scan paper ballots. Make robocalls illegal (they are in some states). Make it illegal to challenge a registration within 30 days of an election. Jack the fines for false challenges, spreading false information or election tampering up to 1 zillion and make them all felonies.

    Here, here Mr Cricket. Couldn’t said it any better. I just mailed in my first absentee ballot, went smooth as silk. Your idea can be realized with a 60 dem Senate and the WH in dem hands. We might even wind up being a real democracy yet.

  72. 72

    @SGEW: And no one could have possibly foreseen that bringing the Ballistic Spittle Brigade to the forefront of the party would chase off people have been trying desperately to pretend that the GOP is the party of small government and low taxes.

    I imagine a lot of Republican voters are thinking "My 401k has shriveled up like McPOW’s balls and you’re screaming about who is the most American? Fuck this."

    I’m not saying they’ll swing to Obama, but McPOW isn’t giving people a lot of incentives to go to the polls.

    Ditz Update (It was on AC360): She tried to compare Rev. Wright to David Duke.

    Maybe there’s some sort of contest to piss off the greatest number of people at once.

    Maybe that was Michelle Bachman.

  73. 73
    malraux says:

    I can’t decide. Will those of us with Obama stickers on our cars in red states be the target, or will those who have Obama stickers on their cars in blue states with a few red staters be more at risk?

    I suspect the problems will be worst in the surprise blue states, those that were reliably red till this election. Thats where the losing side will feel that their votes were stolen by the winning side in their town.

  74. 74
    kate r says:

    Cheer up and read this instead. NYTimes magazine article about Obama.

  75. 75
    Tattoosydney says:

    On a note from a previous thread (not strictly OT), look at the numbers fly on Elwyn Tinklenberg’s Act Blue page…. Woo and Hoo!

    It was (if my memory serves me correctly, in the high twenties or low thirties this morning…

    I hope he sends Michelle Bachman a nice note for the fundraising she did for him.

    (Sorry if this has been mentioned – I am cooking Saturday lunch and haven’t read all of this thread.)

  76. 76
    Soylent Green says:

    Comrade Stuck said:

    … at heart these people are afraid, always afraid of anything different than they are, and they won’t expose themselves because they are basically cowards.

    That’s exactly right. They represent a particular segment of our society, the anxious, insecure children who imagine that monsters live in their closets but who all their lives never outgrow this fear. The monster’s name changes with the times but the irrational fear never eases. The boogie man used to be a communist or a jew, now he is a terrorist or atheist or liberal or foreigner or queer or muslim, and he is infiltrating our institutions and neighborhoods and schools. Make the monster go away, daddy! Kill him!

  77. 77
    Soylent Green says:

    double post deleted, would be nice to be able to delete as well as edit

  78. 78
    jcricket says:

    @SGEW: When more people vote, Democrats win.

    Let’s throw in automatic restoration of felon’s voting rights once they’re out of jail. In states like Texas and Florida (with huge felon populations) this could make an actual 2-3% difference. I say this also because it’s the right thing to do and helps felons re-integrate into society. There is no rational reason other than racism and revenge to keep felons from having automatically restored voting rights.

    Republicans have been attempting to disenfranchise people for nigh on 50 years (75?). It got so bad that we had to invent a whole series of incredibly draconian (think: you are not innocent until proven guilty) rules to prevent it. Reminds of of what happened with the great depression.

    It’s about damn time Americans woke up and realize Republicans are the ones metaphorically raping your wives, children and even your potential grandchildren, while telling you to be afraid of the scary darkies.

  79. 79
    Wini says:

    @Tattoosydney: the GOS said he was around $2,500 on ActBlue when this started… it would be interesting to find out what, in addition, has been donated directly to his site

  80. 80
    demimondian says:

    For those of you who keep talking about taking it back to the wingnuts, I have a very few words.

    The Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building.

    You don’t want them to take to the streets. They’ve got a lot of practice at urban terrorism, perfected in their decades-long string of attacks on abortion clinics.

  81. 81
    jcricket says:

    Your idea can be realized with a 60 dem Senate and the WH in dem hands. We might even wind up being a real democracy yet.

    That’s 1/2 the equation. The second parts come from the same stuff I’ve said before:

    1) Make it clear Republicans fuck shit up (including your right to vote)
    2) Commit to fixing it
    3) Make it clear you fixed it.

    Yes, there are some on the right ("the base") who will see every action as actually terrible, but as we’re finding out with Palin – the base is a minority.

    No more sternly worded letters. No more listening to concern trolls. No more assuming one victory is enough. No more assuming good intent from the Republicans.

    It’s time to take the football from Lucy and go home.

    No wait, let her hold it, kick her in the head, take the football, and then walk over her on the way home.

  82. 82

    @demimondian: So … what should we do?

  83. 83
    jcricket says:

    You don’t want them to take to the streets. They’ve got a lot of practice at urban terrorism, perfected in their decades-long string of attacks on abortion clinics.

    I know this will sound trite and callous, but let them. Let the base get excited. Let them start defending the Eric Rudolphs.

    Fundamentally, the Republicans thrive by pretending they are moderate, when they are extremists. From the 20-30% of American "independents" who think Republicans are sweet ol’ fiscally conservative moralists – not abortion clinic/federal building bombing nut jobs. Let Coulter, Malkin, Savage, Hannity and Limbaugh become the face of the party and see how many people vote Republican.

    Short term, you are right, we might have much to fear. I’m not suggesting we actually encourage them (i.e. don’t give money to Dobson), just stand out of their way, and forcefully point out how crazy they are on the side.

    BTW – with some good law enforcement, I think we can prevent most of their worst excesses…

  84. 84
    Soylent Green says:

    For those of you who keep talking about taking it back to the wingnuts, I have a very few words.
    The Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building.

    And the crazy fuckers who strike back with violence won’t be taking William Ayer’s pains to avoid killing innocent people. The political statement they want to make requires murder.

  85. 85
    SGEW says:

    It’s time to take the football from Lucy and go home.

    No no. Get Lucy disqualified for cheating, put in an objective observer to maintain the rules, and get someone else to hold the damn ball.

    Game on. Mr. Brown gets to kick the ball.

    (Bearing in mind that he still may miss. This is the Democratic party, after all. But at least he’ll miss fair and square.)

  86. 86
    Gus says:

    I am a liberal.
    I have a shotgun.
    like they say… "don’t start none, won’t be none".
    These wingnuts are crazy and I won’t stand for foolishness.

    Ditto.

  87. 87
    jcricket says:

    No no. Get Lucy disqualified for cheating, put in an objective observer to maintain the rules, and get someone else to hold the damn ball.

    How about – get Lucy permanently barred from cheating and fine her to a level where she has to sell her house and put her kids in foster care.

  88. 88
    Joshua Norton says:

    Just in case it’s slipped anyone’s notice, there’s no voter fraud being committed because no one has freaking voted yet.

    Fox and the repig Wurlitzer are screaming that they’ve discovered this big "scandal", but it’s just another example of "their lips are moving so they’re lying". ACORN found all the descrepancies in their confirmation process and notified the Sec. of State, as required by law.

    It’s just the might rightie’s grandiose delusions kicking in as a defense mechanism because they’re crashing and burning faster than the speed of sound.

  89. 89

    @Soylent Green: Please. Enough. I’ve spent nearly seven years listening to the wanker in the White House scream "LOOK OUT THEY WANT 2 KILL US! Heh." I do not want a 2009 remake of "If the Democrats have their way the terrorists will win!"

    That may well be part of Sarah the inPalin’s schtick: "Look at these crazy gun-totin’ bastards I’ve also got at my beck in call. Right now they’re at my rally listening to me speak. Be a doggone shame though if something were to happen and I couldn’t speak to them any more and they got … out of control, knowwhatImean?"

    Fuck them. Fuck them all with Semtex buttplugs.

  90. 90
    TenguPhule says:

    Anyone who takes Gleason and the Republican candidate for president seriously is living in Ruby Ridge territory.

    Ideally the FBI can remove them without taking casualties of their own this time.

  91. 91
    Brandon says:

    The Wingnuts go Federalist post-war of 1812

    Anyone remember what happened to the Federalists, who started the Hartford Convention to "negotiate" an end to the war of 1812 with Britain? The war ended right around the same time the Hartford Convention presented its proposal to Congress, and the Federalists looked like morons and were obliterated as a political party.

    If you’re right, and people who can be legitimately attributed to the Republican party start stockpiling guns and organizing resistance….the Republicans go the way of the Whigs and Federalists. The public backlash will be so immense…it’ll be ridiculous.

  92. 92
    TenguPhule says:

    Fuck them. Fuck them all with Semtex buttplugs.

    I prefer, Execute them all and let someone else figure it out.

  93. 93
    TenguPhule says:

    You don’t want them to take to the streets. They’ve got a lot of practice at urban terrorism, perfected in their decades-long string of attacks on abortion clinics.

    Wrong. We want them on the streets. Easier targets.

    When they blend in and bomb like Iraqi guerillas, then they’re dangerous.

    But out in the streets, waving their guns….Let them eat Hellfire missiles.

  94. 94
    jcricket says:

    Just in case it’s slipped anyone’s notice, there’s no voter fraud being committed because no one has freaking voted yet.

    Despite zillions of dollars and partisan driven investigations the most they have found, across the US, is like 25 instances of actual voter fraud over 4 years.

    Contrast with actual fines, convictions and jail sentences for GOP officials for electoral tampering, voter disenfranchisement, etc. and it’s no contest.

    GOP is THE SHIZNIT at vote fraud.

  95. 95
    Josh Huaco says:

    I prefer, Execute them all and let someone else figure it out.

    Stop it. If I wanted to read eliminationist rhetoric I’d go to Free Republic and get their Columbian Gold straight up.

  96. 96
    SGEW says:

    Be a doggone shame though if something were to happen and I couldn’t speak to them any more and they got … out of control, knowwhatImean?

    Nice country you got here, my "friend." Be a shame if anything were to happen to it, now wouldn’t it.

    Never trust anyone who greets strangers as their "friend."

  97. 97
    demimondian says:

    Wrong. We want them on the streets. Easier targets.

    No, because in the streets, they’ll be able to use innocent bystanders as human shields. And they will.

  98. 98
    TenguPhule says:

    No, because in the streets, they’ll be able to use innocent bystanders as human shields. And they will

    Better the serpent in the open then the one hidden in the grass.

  99. 99
    demimondian says:

    @kommrade jakevich: What do we do? We use the tool that humankind has developed over many centuries to expose them and make sure that the worst of them go away and don’t come back. We capture them *in accordance with the law*, we try them in a fair and public courtroom, and we sentence them to the maximum sentence possible.

    We throw the worst of them in jail, and we bury the fucking keys, and we let them die there.

    It’s what we’ve done with mass murderers before, and it’s what we can keep doing, and it’s what makes us better than them.

  100. 100
    Fulcanelli says:

    Devious strategy Tweety used with Michelle Bachmann: Give ‘er enough rope… And hang herself she did, tho’ I admit my better half and I sat slack-jawed, as she channeled Joe McCarthy for what, 10 minutes while Tweety tossed the nerf balls, drawing her out. You could hear the gears turning in his head.

    She now has a bull’s-eye on her ass, and that loathsome clip will fire up and help raise money for the opposition and (hopefully) repulse what few reasonable conservatives remain in her district and elsewhere in the state.

    The adult female Wingnuttia Fascisticus, rare sub-species:brunetticus minnasotti in the attack posture. Tribal reptilian instincts, fiercely territorial, but easily outwitted and eliminated when hunting using cameras, dead presidents and red, white and blue cloth lures. Aim for the light blue throat chakra.

    Peak wingnut, indeed. Our host is right, we’re off into supernova territory…

  101. 101
    demimondian says:

    Better the serpent in the open then the one hidden in the grass.

    As may be, but there are better ways to get even.

  102. 102
    SGEW says:

    @demimondian:

    We capture them in accordance with the law, we try them in a fair and public courtroom, and we sentence them to the maximum sentence possible.

    Hear hear. It’s how we dealt with the Nazis. The Republican party, bad as they are, are not Nazis*.

    Also:

    But out in the streets, waving their guns….Let them eat Hellfire missiles.

    Whoa there, partner. You’re heading towards crazy town. Crazy town is a Bad Place, and I politely suggest you change course.

    *Is this a reverse Godwin?

  103. 103
    Soylent Green says:

    Nobody’s going to be massing in the streets waging civil war. That’s just a Hollywood fantasy. All this venting is healthy to a point, but let’s keep it real and not start sounding like those scumbags on the other side.
     
    What may happen, sadly, are some random, unpredictable acts of violence by the most unhinged on the right. But we aren’t going to see mass insurrections or even protests. The election will pass. People will continue shooting electrons at each other on the intertubes. Everyone else will go back to living their lives.
     
    So those of you fantasizing about ventilating some wingnuts, go play Grand Theft Auto.

  104. 104
    Anti-American Fulcanelli says:

    @demimondian: Make them perform years of public service in a large, inner city ghetto to atone for their crimes. With no Country music on their iPods. Fuckers.

  105. 105

    @demimondian:

    I don’t follow. First you say this:

    For those of you who keep talking about taking it back to the wingnuts, I have a very few words.

    The Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building. &c

    None of the domestic terrorist attacks you mention (or the Millennium Bomber or the Beltway Snipers…) were caused by anyone "Taking it back to the wingnuts," as you put it. They were caused by the vast majority people living their lives and a few assholes deciding the voice in their head shouting "KILL!" was the Baby Jesus. Anyway, then you say this:

    What do we do? We use the tool that humankind has developed over many centuries to expose them and make sure that the worst of them go away and don’t come back. &c

    With which I agree.

    What I’m not seeing is how that connects with your first statement or perhaps I don’t understand what you were trying to say in your first statement.

  106. 106

    Hear hear. It’s how we dealt with the Nazis.

    Uh. Do you remember what we did to the Nazis before we got around to the trials?

  107. 107
    Fulcanelli says:

    How come we never hear about this domestic terrorist stuff on FOX, Mr. Ailes?

  108. 108
    demimondian says:

    I was trying to say that there are real, armed terrorists in the ranks of the Republican party, and that dreaming about shooting them down is foolish. If they come out in the streets, it will be unbelievably awful, both while they’re rioting, and after their riots are put down.

    We don’t want that — and dreaming that we do is taking a quick ride to crazy town.

    Let me be very clear here: I will not be surprised if there is anti-American violence perpetrated by self-styled patriots who oppose Barack Obama. Sarah Palin has been committing incitement, and has been doing it, I believe, consciously. It has been very successful. Her speeches, and the response of her supporters, make me dread the possibility of political violence. I don’t welcome it, and I don’t have Chee-to stained wet dreams about getting revenge on any cretins who commit such crimes. I fear it, and any sane person would, gun, black belt, or whatever.

    This isn’t a video game; real life has perma-death. I don’t want that to happen to anyone.

  109. 109
    Delia says:

    @kommrade jakevich: What do we do? We use the tool that humankind has developed over many centuries to expose them and make sure that the worst of them go away and don’t come back. We capture them in accordance with the law, we try them in a fair and public courtroom, and we sentence them to the maximum sentence possible.

    We throw the worst of them in jail, and we bury the fucking keys, and we let them die there.

    It’s what we’ve done with mass murderers before, and it’s what we can keep doing, and it’s what makes us better than them.

    Exactly. Exposure is what is driving the more rational among the conservatives away from the wingnut base. It’s why Kathleen Parker and George Will have denounced the Moose Queen. It’s why Hitchens and Christopher Buckley and Susan Eisenhower have announced that they’re voting for Obama. We don’t have to agree with these people on most things, but as long as we can agree with them on the rule of law, and as long as we can agree to close in on the maniacs while the rule of law still holds, we don’t have to move on to the war of all against all, which, as everyone who remembers their Hobbes will agree, makes for a really bad scene.

  110. 110
    Cassidy says:

    @demimondian: First off, I don’t think anyone here is hoping for any kind of insurrection, or heaven forbid civil war. I sure don’t. But like some others have stated, I personally would have no problem helping quell the violence.

    Secondly, if any kind of organized insurrection did happen, the military would get involved and we have far more urban combat experience. And tanks….and BFV’s…and etc.

    In all seriousness, you can be horrified if you like, but culling a few of these assholes will make the world a better place. They are poison. They are a virus and everything they say and do undermines what this nation stands for.

  111. 111
    Delia says:

    Uh. Do you remember what we did to the Nazis before we got around to the trials?

    Well, that’s just it. You have to deal with the threat from the Right before it gets entirely out of hand. The judicial and political establishment in Weimar Germany pretty much mollycoddled the radical Right, and the French and British should have made a stand in the Rhineland in 1935. Some help from the US seems to have been out of the question. We’re probably in a stage analogous to the late 1920s if you want to pull godwins out of the hat. The rule of law can still be maintained but you have to be very firm and no-nonsense with all the goons. Strict punishment when they get out of line and don’t fall for any of their bullshit. Also, no recriminations for any of their people who leave the fold and want to rejoin the ranks of rationality.

  112. 112

    @demimondian: I see. I assumed people were talking about defending themselves in the event some assholes decided they didn’t look American enough and it was give a bullet to the knuckledragger or receive a bullet from a knuckledragger. Of course there’s no need to pick on fRighties if they’re just peacefully worshiping icons of their moose-stepping mistress.

    The real challenge comes when/if some bigger whackjob blows something up. After they stop screaming about Mooslim Terrists and realize it was some guy from Scranton, PA, the 101st fRightened Keyboardists will shrill "Seeee??? If they hadn’t elected elected Obama, this wouldn’t have happened!?1"

    Then it’ll be hard not to shoot someone.

    Oops, BSoD approaching…

  113. 113
    binzinerator says:

    Fuck them. Fuck them all with Semtex buttplugs.

    In these economic hard times I’d say that’s a way to get some bang for your butt!

  114. 114
    Josh Huaco says:

    Oops, BSoD approaching…

    That’s why I use Safari, for both Mac and Windows. No BSoD!

  115. 115
    demimondian says:

    @Cassidy: Oh, I know what the Army has — I designed some of the stuff that makes your weapons work. I know quite well indeed what they can do. I fully intended for all of you to come home alive, and I gave you my best.

    Doesn’t mean I want to see those things used on the streets of my home town, though.

  116. 116
    Ed Marshall says:

    Watch this and tell me there isn’t some part of you wanting to watch this confederacy of dunces pick up arms so you can splater-paint with them.

  117. 117
    demimondian says:

    That’s why I use Safari, for both Mac and Windows. No BSoD!

    Really, I prefer a browser not distributed by a predatory monopoly. That puts Safari and IE in a bad way.

    No BSOD for FF3.0.x on Linux, tho.

  118. 118
    Joshua Norton says:

    No BSOD for FF3.0.x on Linux, tho.

    Get FF’s "view in IE" add on. Some pages have HTML coding just can’t be read correctly in Firfox so you need the older technology from IE. Right click on the BS0D, select "View this page in IE" and keep on reading. I did about 5 minutes ago and it works just fine. The only thing you have to remember is to renter your name and email before you hit submit.

    Firefox is my favorite, no matter what anyone else says.

  119. 119
    Soylent Green says:

    In all seriousness, you can be horrified if you like, but culling a few of these assholes will make the world a better place. They are poison. They are a virus and everything they say and do undermines what this nation stands for.

    In all seriousness, that’s the same argument that has been made throughout human history to justify genocide.

  120. 120
    Josh Huaco says:

    In all seriousness, you can be horrified if you like, but culling a few of these assholes will make the world a better place. They are poison. They are a virus and everything they say and do undermines what this nation stands for.

    FAIL^∞

  121. 121

    If there really is talk of violence on the right, I haven’t seen it, for whatever that means. I’d like to see some links. The left, including Obama himself, seems to be obsessed with the topic. Part of me thinks it is projection.

    I don’t discount the possibility of some level of societal breakdown. But the likely trigger would be the loss of the national credit rating under an Obama Administration / Democratic Congress, followed by the collapse of social programs. I doubt Chinese or Arab leadership would feel comfortable loaning any more money to that crew.

    Gun ownership should be wide, even among you guys. It is the best defense against the emergence of a Tyrant. Federalist #46 is very good on this topic.

  122. 122
    rachel says:

    What’s the chance that someone gets murdered before 11/4?

    It’s already happened.

    Also, where’s the love for Opera? No BSOD for me!

  123. 123
    Mnemosyne says:

    Hey, when they lose, are we allowed to tell them to ‘get over it’?

    You have inspired me. If all goes well on Election Night, I am going to make a t-shirt saying, "McCain lost. Get over it."

  124. 124
    Mnemosyne says:

    If there really is talk of violence on the right, I haven’t seen it, for whatever that means.

    I guess you didn’t read the paper this morning. You didn’t hear "talk of violence" because they went straight to action.

  125. 125
    The Moar You Know says:

    Also, where’s the love for Opera? No BSOD for me!

    I got your love for Opera right here – proud user since back in 2000, when it was the best option for the BeOS. Be is long gone but Opera lives on, and I use it on both my Windows and Linux machines.

  126. 126
    The Moar You Know says:

    But the likely trigger would be the loss of the national credit rating under an Obama Administration / Democratic Congress, followed by the collapse of social programs. I doubt Chinese or Arab leadership would feel comfortable loaning any more money to that crew.

    I couldn’t agree more. The Republicans have been such good stewards of our national economy and credit that it’s no wonder they’re about to win this election in a fifty-state landslide.

    The Chinese and Arabs are no doubt sleeping well tonight, knowing that their investments in our country made under the last eight years of Republican rule are safe and secure, were spent responsibly, and will no doubt pay high yields as guaranteed. No worries about defaults or recessions under Republican rule! And the markets…gosh, the Dow has been on a one-way rocket ride since Bush took office.

    It’s a wonder that anyone votes for Democrats in the first place.

    /bizarroworld

  127. 127
    Ecks says:

    In all seriousness, you can be horrified if you like, but culling a few of these assholes will make the world a better place. They are poison.

    Yeah, just like in Iraq, right. Kill all the bad guys, and this in no way convinces their friends, kids, parents, or cousins that retribution against you is desirable. Why de-escalate when you can liquidate.

    And I hate myself that I’m stooping to IE to post this.

  128. 128
    Colonel Doctor Comrade Michael Brown says:

    @Soylent:

    In all seriousness, that’s the same argument that has been made throughout human history to justify genocide.

    Well said (for a green cracker :-)

  129. 129
    comrade pseudonymous in nc says:

    Radio Hutu Power (or, to give it its real name, Radio Télévision Libre des Mille Collines) is alive and well.

    Dahlia Lithwick rattled off a host of cites — some to GOP campaign vets — who acknowledge the obvious: that in-person voter fraud is useless unless you’re voting for sheriff of Analcoitus (pop. 62) and is thus as rare as an original thought in Sarah Palin’s head.

    Camp Obama’s response is pretty smart: it’s hard to prove a negative, past performance shows the politicization of the DoJ, and chances are that this is co-ordinated by the GOP up the wazoo. Of course CNN OMFG Voter Fraud TV has forgotten about last year already.

    Did you see that the GOP wants to hire off-duty cops, firefighters and military vets as observers to handle ‘intimidating’ precincts in Milwaukee? Yeah, I think the language there says it all.

  130. 130
    tripletee says:

    I don’t discount the possibility of some level of societal breakdown. But the likely trigger would be the loss of the national credit rating under an Obama Administration / Democratic Congress, followed by the collapse of social programs. I doubt Chinese or Arab leadership would feel comfortable loaning any more money to that crew.

    What, no reference to lazy minorities destroying the economy by taking out ACORN-arranged mortgages in return for their help in stealing the election?

    Sorry, but you’re going to have to move along if you can’t regurgitate at least one Fox News meme per post. We do have standards for our trolls here, you know.

  131. 131
    Blue Raven says:

    @demimondian:

    No BSOD for FF3.0.x on Linux, tho.

    Nor on Mac OS X.

    As for the odds of wingnut rebellion, my husband and I have four rifles and two handguns. Trying to take back my Internet tough gal remarks here, but still. Not all liberals refuse to pack heat.

  132. 132
    TenguPhule says:

    Yeah, just like in Iraq, right. Kill all the bad guys, and this in no way convinces their friends, kids, parents, or cousins that retribution against you is desirable. Why de-escalate when you can liquidate.

    Or let them run amok until they drive you out of your neighborhood.

    You’ve got Iraq right, but the combatants wrong.

    Sunni, Shia or Kurds, which side do you want to be?

  133. 133
    TenguPhule says:

    Gun ownership should be wide, even among you guys. It is the best defense against the emergence of a Tyrant. Federalist #46 is very good on this topic.

    Brickovenbill, I will always remember to mock your corpse after the Feds finish picking you off from so far away that you never even see them.

    Unlike Ruby Ridge, I don’t think they’re going to give much of a shit of taking armed GOP alive.

  134. 134
    TenguPhule says:

    Whoa there, partner. You’re heading towards crazy town. Crazy town is a Bad Place, and I politely suggest you change course.

    Already checked in a long time ago.

    Unfortunately, insanity only makes it easier to see what’s coming.

    Yes, I’m acting like an asshole about this. I know that, just like I suspect some people have already figured out that I’m partially snarking on the subject.

    But being serious for just a bit, it’s coming. The Rightwing has been emboldened by 8 years of doing whatever they want and getting away with it.

    Their worldview no longer considers anything they do to be a crime or wrong. They will do anything to hold power. Anything.

    If they thought it was possible, we’d be awash in Guantanamos for ‘liberals’ and ‘the other.

    I just want the GOP leaders and base lined up against a wall and shot. It’s the only fucking way to get them to leave me and mine alone.

  135. 135
    Tim F. says:

    I prefer, Execute them all and let someone else figure it out.

    I just want the GOP leaders and base lined up against a wall and shot.

    Congratulations Tenguphule, you just earned my first temporary ban in years. If I hear anything like that again I won’t think twice about banning you for good.

  136. 136
    Nicole says:

    So, I saw this on Pajamas this morning-

    http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/o.....-new-york/

    I can’t find anything on the web about it that doesn’t come from pajamas. Is this true? If it is, may I be the first to say to the alleged assailant- thanks, Buddy. Thanks a lot. Heckuva job there. Really helpful. (bangs head against wall)

  137. 137
    Comrade Stuck says:

    Part of me thinks it is projection.

    That’d be the part that is projecting stoopid wingnut projection accusations toward the left. REally rich on this topic though, with your soulmates running around showing off their Obama Monkey Dolls at Palin conventions, as they’re shouting "terrorist" and "kill him" when Obama’s name comes up. And Sarah "the Inciter" just grins and says "Darn right" about 50 times in between some well placed "you bet’chas".

    I don’t discount the possibility of some level of societal breakdown. But the likely trigger would be the loss of the national credit rating under an Obama Administration / Democratic Congress, followed by the collapse of social programs.

    This is just breathtakingly stupid arrogance even for a wingnut, and totally divorced from any vestige of reality. Your party runs the economy into the ditch, gets out -pisses on the wreckage, then charges the taxpayer for any needed repairs. And for good measure blames the guy who stopped to try and help out. Sorry, but ever so typical.

  138. 138
    John S. says:

    For all those wondering about wingnut retaliation, a tale…

    A photo

    One of my best friends took his 2 year-old son to a Thomas the Tank Engine show in Miami. While his car (adorned with many anti-Bush and pro-Obama bumper stickers) sat in the parking lot of an event for children, somebody decided to key the word "Coward" in 10-inch tall letters all over his car. Naturally, this brave wingnut who had branded my friend a coward did not stick around to confront him. The damage cost over $2,000.

    This was also several months ago. Peak wingnut my ass, indeed.

  139. 139
    Libby says:

    Good morning America haters. Sorry I’m not awake enough to read through the whole thread but let me leave you this link to the LAT story on GOP voter fraud.

    Dozens of newly minted Republican voters say they were duped into joining the party by a GOP contractor with a trail of fraud complaints stretching across the country.

    Voters contacted by The Times said they were tricked into switching parties while signing what they believed were petitions for tougher penalties against child molesters. Some said they were told that they had to become Republicans to sign the petition, contrary to California initiative law. Others had no idea their registration was being changed.

    Unlike the ACORN regs, this does actually affect your right to vote. It’s going to get uglier before it gets better I’m afraid.

  140. 140
    John S. says:

    Gun ownership should be wide, even among you guys.

    Guns are for pussies.

    Anybody can try to feel all tough and badass when they’re packing heat. Come say some shit to my face without your gun. Come start something without your gun. Come threaten my family without your gun. I will break your neck with my two bare hands — I don’t need a gun for that.

    And if you do come with a gun because you cannot be brave without it, then you had better be a good shot. Because unless you hit my head or a vital organ, you’re gonna get fucked.

  141. 141
    Krista says:

    I’m just hoping that the vast majority of the right wing will settle for grumbling. I would suspect that if any of the nutjobs get violent, it will only serve to appall 99% of the country, and will further push the nutjobs into obscurity and ostracization.

    Besides…if we’re all worried about the nutjobs revolting, I think we can rest assured that Obama and his team have not only thought of it as well, but likely have a finely crafted plan in place.

    In other words, chill out. He’s got this.

  142. 142

    Well,

    I’ve been picked off;
    Had my corpse mocked; and
    Had my neck broken.

    No examples though, except for the lady who got assaulted in New York. Projection theory, check.

    For the record, I am apolitical.

  143. 143
    SGEW says:

    @ John S.:

    For all those wondering about wingnut retaliation, a tale…

    Man, that ain’t nothin’.

    Back in ’04 I drove across the country with my then-partner (who is middle-eastern) in a car with rather noticeable anti-Bush, anti-war, pro-LGBT paraphernalia and New York plates. Woo boy. Looking back on it, maybe we shouldn’t have gone through Alabama (tho’ Western PA and WV had the most overt racism, to be honest). Terrifying stories.

    Peak Wingnut, in my opinion, was back in late ’03, when Bush was at his zenith of crazy town. We’re seeing the dregs now: ugly, but not nearly as dangerous (relatively, viz a viz total damage they can do) as the rampaging hordes of whack jobs hooked on Rove’s "luminous batshit*."

    Point and laugh, people. We’re on the winning side now; the appropriate thing to do is be magnanimous in success and punish the wicked through the Rule of Law.

    *h/t William Gibson

  144. 144
    RoonieRoo, dontcha know says:

    I agree with Krista. I really am not worried about a wingnut revolt.

    Honestly, I think there is infinitely more danger if McCain/Palin wins. If they win, then they and their followers will have their violent rhetoric and actions legitimized. That is far more dangerous and likely to provoke violence than if they lose.

    If they lose, then Krista is right, any violence as a result will most likely serve to run off whatever republicans were still deluding themselves about what their party has become.

  145. 145
    Unrepentent Dennis - SGMM says:

    The Bush legacy: Mines to Get Freer Hand to Dump Waste
    The Interior Department is poised to issue a final rule that will make it easier for mountaintop mining companies to dump their waste near rivers and streams, the agency announced yesterday.

    The environmental impact statement released Friday afternoon by the department’s Office of Surface Mining overhauls a 1983 regulation protecting water quality that has been regularly flouted by mining companies. It marks the next-to-last step in a 4 1/2 -year battle over how companies should dispose of the rubble and slurry created when they blow the tops off mountains to get to the coal buried below.

    This part: " …a 1983 regulation protecting water quality that has been regularly flouted by mining companies." No one could have aniticipated that not enforcing the regulation would lead mining companies to flout it.
    Look for a flurry of rules changes, presidential directives and other shenanigans aimed at weakening fifty years worth of environmental and product safety regulations as Bushco prepares to flee from office.

  146. 146
    Comrade Stuck says:

    @Brick Oven Bill:

    Brick Oven Bill talks in third person on his blog which is creepy.

    Brick Oven Bill confuses claims of actual violence versus creating atmosphere of violence which is subject and discussion of this post.

    Brick Oven Bill claims to be apolitical but espouses right wing beliefs on blog and blames democrats for the country’s current and future ills.

    I don’t discount the possibility of some level of societal breakdown. But the likely trigger would be the loss of the national credit rating under an Obama Administration / Democratic Congress, followed by the collapse of social programs. I doubt Chinese or Arab leadership would feel comfortable loaning any more money to that crew.

    Brick Oven Bill–is full of shit!

  147. 147
    Bey says:

    He also got banned from The Political Animal.

    Just sayin.

  148. 148
    Bob Dole says:

    Brick Oven Bill talks in third person on his blog which is creepy.

    Why is that creepy? Bob Dole has no idea what you’re talking about.

  149. 149
    John S. says:

    @ Thick as a Brick Bill:

    That’s right, if you or any other wingnut (or anyone for that matter) threaten my family or personal safety, necks will get broken.

    I wouldn’t expect you to understand the difference between my response and the wingnut response to vandalize the property of liberals, assault liberals and members of the press and shout threats of violence to liberals simply because a scary, america-hating, ultra-liberal terrorist sympathizer black man might become president.

    Myself, liberals and most other Americans suffered through 8 years of the most incompetent disaster inhabiting the oval office without resorting to the levels of anger and violence that greater wingnuttia has already come to before Obama is even elected.

    What a bunch of fucking crybabies you people are. Grow up.

  150. 150
    malraux says:

    Well, in my town, the leader of the democratic party was shot and killed in the party HQ.

  151. 151

    […] this is the state Republican chairman for Pennsylvania shoring up the foundation of the dream palace wingers will occupy after McCain gets plastered. Even if Obama carries all 50 states by sizable margins, these flappers will never accept the […]

  152. 152
    dslak says:

    @John S.:

    That’s right, if you or any other wingnut threaten my family or personal safety, I will break your neck.

    Isn’t that what we have police for? I can hurt people in all manner of ways, but I’d rather not do it myself unless it were absolutely necessary.

  153. 153
    Cassidy says:

    I personally do not want to hurt anyone. I made it through Bosnia and Iraq w/out having to shoot anyone. I pray that the most I have to do is mock and laugh @ cons. But, if they choose to go the route of the crazy after the election, I will not lose sleep over the deaths of some knuckledraggers.
    nothing wrong with hoping for the best and preparing for the worst. Obama gives this nation hope. I won’t sit idly by if someone tries to take that away.

  154. 154
    SGEW says:

    It’s starting to smell a little . . . um . . . reactionary in here.

  155. 155
    demimondian says:

    [T]ell me there isn’t some part of you wanting to watch this confederacy of dunces pick up arms so you can splat[t]er-paint with them

    "Splatter-paint"? No, actually, not. "Get even?" Damn straight! I’m human, and I hate being disrespected, threatened, and endangered — and I want to get even.

    Fortunately, "getting even" doesn’t require violence. I’ll actually get a lot more pleasure from the worst of them being jailed — because it gives me an even better revenge: mail. I personally dream of sending letters to any American fascist who is convicted of political crimes surrounding or following this year’s election. I’d send them on the anniversary of the crime, and they’d all say the same thing:

    Happy anniversary! Rot in prison while you live, and then rot in Hell forever after — and enjoy your helplessness.

    Non-violent doesn’t mean "nice".

  156. 156
    Comrade Colonel Ivan Ivanovich Renko says:

    It’s starting to smell a little . . . um . . . reactionary in here.

    Worried is more like it.

    We got the economy to worry about– and a horde of Rudolph McVeighs to worry about too.

    As for me– I swore when I was 9 years old* that if the bastards came for me, some of ’em are goin’ to Hell with me.

    If we must die…

    *(full disclosure– I just moved into my 52nd year and they haven’t showed up yet.)

  157. 157
    Glocksman says:

    Posted October 18, 2008 04:21 Hide PostReply With QuoteEdit or Delete Message
    It’s purely anecdotal, but my county (Vanderburgh) in Indiana has ‘early voting’ going on from now until the end of the month at some library branches.
    I went in to vote yesterday and there were at least 50 people ahead of me in line and it took over an hour to vote.
    When I left, there were more people in line than when I came in.

    Contrast this to the last (2006) general election I voted in where I was in and out of the polls in less than 10 minutes.
    If the conventional wisdom about high turnout favoring the Democrats is true and what I observed locally occurs statewide, then the McCain campaign is in deep shit in Indiana.

    Hell, I wasn’t even born the last time this state (1964) went Democratic.

  158. 158
    Notorious P.A.T. says:

    if we’re all worried about the nutjobs revolting, I think we can rest assured that Obama and his team have not only thought of it as well, but likely have a finely crafted plan in place.

    Remember, the military has donated to Obama far more than McCain.

  159. 159
    John S. says:

    Isn’t that what we have police for? I can hurt people in all manner of ways, but I’d rather not do it myself unless it were absolutely necessary.

    If the police happened to be around – great.

    In my experience, they usually are NOT around when you need them. Like when I was a teenager and got accosted by a group of skinheads in a Checker’s parking lot. Sure, I would have loved for there to have been a cop around to break things up. But since there wasn’t, I got stuck having to take my lumps while trying to fight off 5 or 6 guys by myself (thankfully I discovered these people are generally cowards and prefer easy targets to fighting ones).

    I am a pacifist. I do not like violence. But now that I have a family and a small boy, I will not think twice about defending myself or them if the need arises. I am not one to go looking for trouble, but if trouble finds me and I cannot avoid it, I will do what I have to do (without a gun).

  160. 160
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    *grunts*
    *bobs head*
    *shows teeth*
    *jumps*
    *screeches*

  161. 161
    tripletee says:

    @Brick Oven Bill:

    No examples though, except for the lady who got assaulted in New York. Projection theory, check.

    Example

    Example 2

    For the record, I am apolitical.

    I bet some of your best friends are black too, amirite?

  162. 162
    cain says:

    It’s starting to smell a little . . . um . . . reactionary in here.

    Um yeah.. A little worrisome. Dial it down guys, we aren’t at civil war 2 yet. We’re a nation that’s putting itself back on track. There aren’t enough of them to start neighborhood by neighborhood fighting ala Baghdad or even Northern Ireland.

    cain

  163. 163
    magisterludi says:

    I no longer believe any conspiracy theory is too wild for these droogs.

    The fringe element is what is left of the party. The elites like Rove and Kristol control them like puppets.

  164. 164
    tavella says:

    Point and laugh, people. We’re on the winning side now; the appropriate thing to do is be magnanimous in success and punish the wicked through the Rule of Law.

    What SGEW said. I hate eliminationist rhetoric even *more* when it’s from my side.

  165. 165
    demimondian says:

    It’s starting to smell a little . . . um . . . reactionary in here.

    Really? Hmm. Smelled fundamentalist to me, but…you know, you could be right. I have a hard time telling the two scents apart sometimes.

    Sadly, parties are made up of people, and we are all flawed. We can fight against the pull of our reptile brains, but, honestly, they’re as much a part of us as any other parts of our brains. It’s why I’m a little more forgiving of the plebes who spout their particular brand of reactionary hate than I might be; I can feel their frustration echoing in my own soul.

    I am not, however, forgiving of the elites that lead them into hate. They’re not reacting, they’re plotting — they’re evil.

  166. 166
    demimondian says:

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    grunts
    bobs head
    shows teeth
    jumps
    screeches

    Remember, now, kids. *Never* smile at a chimp; it’s a threat gesture.

  167. 167
    Josh Huaco says:

    What SGEW said. I hate eliminationist rhetoric even more when it’s from my side.

    Ditto. I used to be a wingnut, and while I deeply regret voting for Bush in 2000 the answer wouldn’t have been to wax me and my family. Facts, reason, appeals to morality, justice, etc. are what works. Use the justice system to deal with the freaks (on both sides) who get violent. But cut out the OH NOES ITZ CRISTULNAKT PART TOO crap.

  168. 168
    SGEW says:

    Never smile at a chimp; it’s a threat gesture.

    Smile with your eyes, not your teeth. Then give them some strawberries.

  169. 169
    Hob says:

    If anyone’s trying to make up their mind about whether talking to Brick Oven Bill would be a good use of time, they might want to take a gander at his history over at Obsidian Wings, which used to be his main hangout until he got banned (not for his belief system, which is Nazi in all but name, but for finding as many ways to bait people as possible within OW’s civility rules). Responses of outrage and ridicule have never done anything but amuse and encourage him; despite his ability to construct a decent sentence, he’s as trollish as a troll can be while still actually believing the things he says.

  170. 170
    John S. says:

    But cut out the OH NOES ITZ CRISTULNAKT PART TOO crap.

    That’s pretty easy to say if you haven’t been the target of violence by hateful extremists.

    Of course, the sky is not falling. It’s just that after watching countless disgusting people on YouTube at McCain/Palin rallies and seeing the hand the wingnuts are playing, I wouldn’t be surprised if there is an uptick in political violence following an Obama victory.

    I hope it doesn’t happen, but if it does I hope most of us will deal with it appropriately.

  171. 171
    gwangung says:

    As far as right wing violence is concerned…

    I expect politeness and civility…but am prepared for the worst. No problems if you act like a human being, but if someone gets violent….they may get a surprise.

  172. 172
    Josh Huaco says:

    John S…I’ve probably been watching the same YouTube videos and reading the same stories as you have, so I am fully aware of what’s been building. And I read Orcinus and SPLC daily. I’m with you, I guess my point is that the best tactic right now is to draw as much attention of average people to this crap and trust that they will be offended by it and punish the GOP next month.

  173. 173
    John S. says:

    @ Josh Huaco:

    I’ve been a little more hyperbolic on this thread than is usually my wont, but I think we are in 100% agreement.

    Just some days after I spend time with my 16 month old son, smiling and thinking how precious he is to me, I get a little ornery.

  174. 174

    […] the consequences of Gleason’s statement:  I know it sounds crazy, but imagine for a second that you bought […]

  175. 175

    […] people take Robert Gleason at his […]

  176. 176
    The Raven says:

    "Nobody’s going to be massing in the streets waging civil war."

    It’s not because the wingnuts don’t want to, though–it’s because they don’t have military leadership.

  177. 177

    Block the Vote…

    The Article: Block the Vote — Will the GOP’s campaign to deter new voters and discard Democratic ballots determine the next president? by Robert Kennedy and Greg Palast in Rolling Stone.
    The Text: These days, the old west rail hub of Las Ve…

Trackbacks & Pingbacks

  1. Block the Vote…

    The Article: Block the Vote — Will the GOP’s campaign to deter new voters and discard Democratic ballots determine the next president? by Robert Kennedy and Greg Palast in Rolling Stone.
    The Text: These days, the old west rail hub of Las Ve…

  2. […] people take Robert Gleason at his […]

  3. […] the consequences of Gleason’s statement:  I know it sounds crazy, but imagine for a second that you bought […]

  4. […] this is the state Republican chairman for Pennsylvania shoring up the foundation of the dream palace wingers will occupy after McCain gets plastered. Even if Obama carries all 50 states by sizable margins, these flappers will never accept the […]

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