Peak Wingnut? You. Have. No. Idea.

In a post below John argues, wrongly I think, that a profound loss in November will bring at least a little sanity to the online right. Glenn Greenwald had a similar thought earlier today:

I receive e-mails fairly commonly these days pointing out some bad policy or another that Obama is advocating and asking why I favor an Obama/Biden victory in light of that. Even if you don’t see much difference between the two parties and dislike both presidential candidates, the need to rid ourselves of the people who do things like this — infecting our political discourse with abject idiocy and bottomless dishonesty, shaping their own realities to match their base desires — is reason enough to favor that outcome.

It pains me to disagree so strongly with both John and Glenn, but the idea that a crushing defeat will shame the fringe right into silence or even quiet them down a bit is simply crazy. My argument comes from four simple points.

1) Defending all three branches of government is a much less fun job than attacking it. Defenders own the real consequences of real policies whereas critics can take credit for any number of righteous things that didn’t happen because nobody listened to their advice.

2) Movements thrive as oppressed minorities; in power they infight and splinter. To illustrate the point, look at how Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi energized rightwing blogs. In what conceivable way are Reid and Pelosi remarkable in any way? Remember that Reid is pro-life. They bend over backward to give the GOP a fair shake, even more so when you compare them to the clusterfuck that came before. There’s nothing particularly exceptional about either of the two, but by putting a name and face on the Other/Enemy they give the Movement something to hate and fear. The flip side is also true: Republican power wrecked America but it gave the online left a common enemy and an organizing focus. I think that single point best explains why the rightwing internet went from its Clinton-era juggernaut to the sad shadow of the leftosphere that it is today.

3) In general conservatives dislike overpowered government. Bear with me here. There are subspecies like neocons and theocons who like it just fine and others who will compromise big gummint for perks like protection from soul-crushing fear, but at the very least watching their team make a massive grab for dictator powers divides the right. Think John Cole, John Dilulio and Pat Buchanan. You can make the same case for every other compromise and ideological betrayal that the President’s online allies have to either defend (Powerline) or condemn (as often as not, Malkin).

4) Even if some conservatives like some kinds of government power, the movement viscerally loathes any power that isn’t Theirs. Ref: Clinton. Black helicopters. Death list. Et cetera ad nauseum.

Taken together these points make a compelling argument that online wingnuttery is not at anything like a peak. It’s at a nadir. Wingnuttery, online, at home and in paranoid little gatherings, is about to get almost unimaginably worse. Bloggers know better than to say it in so many words, but as a community defending crap like Katrina, Rumsfeld, Harriet Miers and Alberto Gonzales has left the online right depressed, let down and exhausted.

It’s important for us lefties to remember that these points apply as much to ‘us’ as to ‘them.’ Laugh at me now, but at the same time that the online right is scraping bottom the online left is very likely somewhere near a peak in terms of influence, unity and enthusiasm. In a one-party state, it won’t take long before partisan leftwing blogs start chafing against principled activists like Greenwald and equal-opportunity muckrakers like Josh Marshall. It’s a serious mistake to think that unity in the leftwing blogosphere is more than an artifact of the political left’s profound powerlessness. Incoming counsel will be less coherent when we fully own the sausage factory of governing, while at the same time broad power will inevitable reduce the party’s need to listen to us.

I can grant that the online left should come out better than the online right for the simple reason that Democrats can govern. As long as the party does its damn job then at least we won’t have to play defense for disgraces like Tom DeLay, Jack Abramoff, the Schiavo bill and hurricane FEMA.

But overall the point stands. Jonah Goldberg et alia have not yet begun to wingnut. The stupid that will come after their party leaves town on a rail will make the last eight years look like a junior UN meeting. I hate to think that I’m right about this, but the natural consequence of what I’ve laid out that Dave Niewert’s knowledge of fringe hate groups will make him as useful for explaining the next decade as Paul Krugman (among other things Krugman is an expert in financial collapse) and Al Gore.

98 replies
  1. 1
    David says:

    I absolutely agree with this take.

    As the online left leaves their computers to live a life instead of rail at their screen, it will lose power and influence.

    As the online right and right in general is out in the cold with a government they feel no control over or part of, they will get more vocal and more crazy.

    Plus, there will be a black man in the white house, which will drive many of them absolutely bonkers – meaning that they will do anything to make the external reality match their internal beliefs. The more unhinged, the more likely they are to act on it in a violent way, as we have been seeing the past few weeks.

    They are just getting started. Waco, we have a problem.

  2. 2
    Soylent Green says:

    Yeah, they’ll be back. So what? All we have to do is keep them out of power to control the nation’s business. Let the asses bray.

  3. 3
    Dennis - SGMM says:

    When the Republicans held all three branches of government they still bellyached about the press so you may be right. That they recently started using the word "socialism" frequently could be setting the tone for their whines. I can easily see anything Obama does, no matter how benign, being characterized as "creeping socialism." I’d love to be wrong too but, Republicans love to feel oppressed and dissed – especially when they aren’t.

  4. 4
    James says:

    I’ve also been wondering how the left will comport itself in the increasingly likely event of an Obama presidency and an increased Democratic congressional majority. I would like to think that the left will apply the necessary pressure on an Obama administration to implement a legitimately progressive policy agenda, rather than a confused mess of triangulated nonsense.

    That being said, the backlash on the right is probably going to be intense enough to make it seem as though the wingnuts slept through the entire duration of the Clinton presidency. I wonder how much time and energy will have to be devoted to defense.

  5. 5
    Arachnae says:

    Just a point of reference; the black-helicopter New World Order crowd actually got underway during the Reign of George the First. Weirdly, Poppy was thought to be a member of the Illuminati, or something.

  6. 6
    Thursday says:

    Darned tootin’. Lefties tend to be a more diverse crowd, in different ways, than the right; but those who are in power, and whoever is most comfortable, have the time and luxury for arguments. And like any family (or religion) the bitterest fighting comes from the smallest divisions.

    It’s not a shoe! It’s a sandal!

  7. 7
    libarbarian says:

    I think you might be overstating a tad, but largely I agree.

  8. 8

    I can’t be the first lefty blogger who’s wondered just how much of a difference I’ll make under Democratic rule. It’s what I’ve been working toward since I started blogging nearly five years ago, after all. I mean, in 2004, I just figured that once Kerry won (hah!), then the next goal would be to get back Congress, but at least I had a goal in mind. What now? You’re right–it’s not as much fun when it’s calling bullshit on your own, like we’re presently doing with Tim Mahoney.

    So yeah, I expect the right will re-energize itself, and the stupid that currently flows out of the douchenozzles at the Corner and Powerline and the rest will increase its flow and we’ll continue to mock them, but it won’t be the same, because our government will disappoint us. It always will. But I am looking forward to being disappointed by legislation that doesn’t go far enough, in my opinion, than by legislation that goes in the wrong direction.

  9. 9
    TenguPhule says:

    As long as the party does it damned job then at least we playing defense for disgraces like Tom DeLay, Jack Abramoff, the Schiavo bill and hurricane FEMA.

    Hey Tim, Edit your post!

  10. 10
    BombIranForChrist says:

    "Movements thrive as oppressed minorities"

    According to Frank’s "What’s Wrong with Kansas," this isn’t just a sign of what the conservatives will become. It is what they already are. The wingnut conservatives are defined by their victimhood from the liberal elites.

  11. 11

    Laugh at me now, but at the same time that the online right is scraping bottom the online left is very likely somewhere near a peak in terms of influence, unity and enthusiasm. In a one-party state, it won’t take long before partisan leftwing blogs start chafing against principled activists like Greenwald and equal-opportunity muckrakers like Josh Marshall.

    Speaking only for myself, if Obama wins I will be rather occupied.

    First, I’ll have to come down from the high of surviving 8 years of Bush. Next I’ll have to fully accept that there is no way Queen Jadis and her trusty dwarf can get me. By the time I’ve done all that, one of the Bush twins will be in office. I won’t have time to cast shit at anyone but the dead enders for a veeeery long time.

  12. 12
    Dennis - SGMM says:

    My comment is awaiting moderation. Huh? It’s free of profanity and likely the mildest thing I’ve posted all day.

  13. 13
    Tim F. says:

    Hey Tim, Edit your post!

    I am trying to. Some bug has locked me out of that part of the site.

  14. 14
    Dennis - SGMM says:

    I am trying to. Some bug has locked me out of that part of the site.

    That’s what you get for sending my comment to moderation.

  15. 15
    Palooza says:

    Tim, great post and really a conversation we need to have. Without jinxing Obama, assuming he wins and the Democrats make substantial gains in the House/Senate, I think you are right. We will hear the howl of 1 million rabid cats coming from the Malkin/Rush/Hewitt/NRO crowd. However, I think we have the opportunity to severely silence that howl and perhaps issue a knock-out blow to these lunatics.

    I think the most important job for the leftwing blogging community immediately post election is to assign full and complete blame to this Malkin/Rush/Hewitt/NRO crowd. There is a group of GOPers, who the Democrats can work with, and they need to be propped up as much as possible without selling our souls. If the Democrats can achieve some meaningful legislation with these moderates in tow we may be able to isolate and crush the far right fringe.

    I think the key will be hanging Palin around their necks. Many former GOPers (my dad voted twice for Bush) think Palin is a complete idiot and represents the worse judgment ever by McCain. I think that is 100% true, and I think even the poll numbers support me there. The beauty of it is that the lunatic rightwing fringe thinks she is a savior and the only thing good about the ticket. In this instance, their delusional "reality" creating is not working (although of course they believe it). We need to "enhance" the actual reality: that Palin and her policies/attitude were the albatross around McCain’s neck. We need to pump the story good and isolate the lunatics.

    You will never 100% silence them (especially in the blogosphere), but I think we have a good chance to push them to the fringes where they belong.

    Assuming Obama wins of course.

  16. 16
    ThymeZone says:

    No, I think you are going at this the wrong way here just as John did on his thread.

    Wingnuttery is not the issue. Its credibility, impact, and regard by the general population is the issue. There will always be nuts, and nuttery will ebb and flow. But the real story will be what the rest of the population does. Not what the nuts do or don’t do.

    Arguing over the death or non death of wingnuttery is lile wondering if more people start believing the earth is flat would make the earth actually be flat. No, it won’t, the earth remains round despite flat fans.

    Reality remains reality despite the nuts’ view of things. Whether the rest of us react to the nuts is the question that matters. Not whether the nuts get a bug up their asses.

  17. 17
    TenguPhule says:

    but I think we have a good chance to push them to the fringes where they belong.

    It’s not far enough.

    They’re terrorists without the competency yet to be lethal.

    Nip them in the bud.

  18. 18
    TenguPhule says:

    Arguing over the death or non death of wingnuttery is lile wondering if more people start believing the earth is flat would make the earth actually be flat. No, it won’t, the earth remains round despite flat fans.

    But as Reagan and Bush proved, you can sucker a majority of people to believe up is down and round is flat long enough to get the country into deep shit.

  19. 19
    ninerdave says:

    Tim, I’m sure peak-wingnut as a theory is wrong, and as John has already admitted a flawed.

    However, they can scream until blue in the face their black helicopter theories, yet the question remains….is anyone listening? If no one outside of their little world is listening, who cares. I have a feeling wingnutia will be going the way of the militia movement of the 90s. Out with a whimper. There is nothing they can provide to the national discourse besides "liberals are worse" and counter top investigations. The money behind the wingnuts…big business…will move on, the last of the sane people will too. All that will be left is a few folks screaming about gay marriage, terrorism and the evils of liberals.

    While, they will never die, I think in terms of influence, they are done. Hell look at RedState’s rankings on Google Analytics; Balloon Juice is killing them. They can scream all they want, but if no one is listening, they just become a punchline.

  20. 20
    Soylent Green says:

    As the online left leaves their computers to live a life instead of rail at their screen, it will lose power and influence.

    To a minor degree. Access to the web is going mobile, and for more and more people, online life is life. Not many people are going to respond to some pent-up need to leave their computers.
     
    I also think we will forget 9/11 sooner than we will forget what happens under GOP governance, thus will be highly motivated to prevent its return.

  21. 21
    ThymeZone says:

    you can sucker a majority of people to believe up is down

    For a while. But people learn. If they don’t, then the American Epxperiment was doomed from the get go. I don’t believe that it was, I think people learn.

    The nuts will not learn. But they will be outnumbered, and that is what matters.

    The American Experiment rests on certain assumptions, things like people voting in favor of their interests (and therefore knowing what those are), and the submission of the minority.

    Without some form of reasonableness, the thing cannot functioin. I am not one who thinks that the American Experiment has failed, or is doomed. Believing as I do that it will succeed not only makes me believe that people will learn that down is down and not up, it makes me an Obama voter.

    Let the nuts do what nuts do. It’s what we do that counts.

  22. 22
    Dennis - SGMM says:

    As long as there are people who believe that the earth is only 6000 years old the wingnuts will have a following. As long as people refuse to put Intelligent Design into school curriculums there will be people who feel oppressed.
    And Sarah Palin intends to be the voice of these people.

  23. 23
    Martin says:

    I’m less interested in the wingnuts as the middle. The wingnuts exist in all camps – and for every doughy pantload, there’s a Democrat or Libertarian somewhere with a blog, or radio program, or newspaper to balance him out.

    The wingnuts don’t decide elections, however. They do influence those that decide elections, though. At what point can the middle learn how to reason beyond these groups. Achieve that, and the wingnut menace doesn’t matter any longer.

  24. 24
    nicethugbert says:

    It’s not about reform school for wing-nuts. It’s about reform school for the people who pay attention to them, the goddamn independents and other fools who pay attention to the damn lunatics.

    If the wingies suffer a crushing defeat then no one will want to be associated with them. No one hangs out with losers. And so they will be rendered harmless for lack of support. But, they’ll still make fine comedy.

  25. 25
    Tim (The Other One) says:

    Movements thrive as oppressed minorities; in power they infight and splinter

    This. The whining just needs another point of reference to continue.

  26. 26
    Joe Max says:

    I’ll split the difference with you and John. The burning rightwing-o-sphere of the last decade will experience (in fact, is already experiencing) a gravitational collapse, and will be crushed down to its neutronium core of Drudges and Pammys, with their human squawk-box followers spiraling down into furiously tight orbits around their blackholes of whiney wingnuttery. And they will indeed be louder and more obnoxious than ever, but fewer and fewer people will be listening. For another thing, I think the wingnut welfare is going to start to dry up. The economy is getting too rough for the kind of largess we saw in the late 90s and early 00s. Will the Drudges and Pammys carry on if they aren’t getting paid like they used to be?

  27. 27
    Dennis - SGMM says:

    The wingnuts exist in all camps – and for every doughy pantload, there’s a Democrat or Libertarian somewhere with a blog, or radio program, or newspaper to balance him out.

    I’d say that the wingnuts have a near-monopoly on radio. As for blogs, I’d guess that most people tend to read those blogs that are in line with their point of view. Yes, I’ll read a wingnut blog every now and then if someone points out a particularly boneheaded or unintentionally comedic post but, I don’t read any of them regularly. I’d imagine that the winger faithful are pretty much the same.

  28. 28
    Comrade Stuck says:

    I’ve said in recent comments, that the GOP is no longer a national party. It has become the political wing of southern ideology that does not and will not fundamentally agree with many of the most basic principles of the liberal constitutional democracy the founders gave us. They are at odds with a whole host of concepts the constitution proposes, either explicitly or implicitly. Things like progressive taxation, equal justice under the law, and separation of church and state do not impress them. The unintentional consequences of the Southern Strategy have come full circle and is near completion, save for a few holdout Senate seats in New England. And the reason the current wingnuttery will persist is only a matter of numbers that allows them the loudest voice ( IE there are more southern wingnuts than traditional Eisenhower and even Goldwater conservatives found in the West and midwest), and as long the hardcore dixie wingnuts rule the GOP roost, saner conservatives and moderate repubs will be available for democratic votes with acceptable and competent candidates. That doesn’t include left wing ideologues, or necessarily liberal progressives, UNLESS the progressives are also pragmatic and morally acceptable (family oriented and not bopping prostitutes or their Executive Assistants) and live up to their newfound and proclaimed fiscal restraint. If democrats can manage these simple qualifications in their candidates, then they are in like Flint, for some time to come. And the wingnuts can and will get nuttier until we can figure out a way to put Thorazine in their drinking water.

  29. 29
    rollSound says:

    The central tenet of the wingnuts, and of their cherished heroes is

    There are no consequences for our actions, so we can’t be held responsible.

    Palooza is right in #15 that we can’t let this crowd escape blame for foisting these awful chunks of history upon us. We can’t stop shining the flashlight on the big roaches (Limbaugh, Hannity) or any of their smaller brethren, either, as we remind them that it’s their mess we are cleaning up, and that just because we threw their boys out of office doesn’t mean we’re going to let them build new myths about Obama without challenging and debunking them every step of the way.

    Corollary: No good can come from their actions, so they must be destroyed at all cost.

    It’s still way too easy to distract and tear down, so we have to maintain vigilance and take the teeth out of their attacks before they get started. It’s easier on the Intertubes, because there just aren’t that many dark corners to plot in. So, dig in, gang. We may have driven the 101st Chairborne off the hill, but they aren’t disbanding any time soon.

  30. 30
    Pennypacker says:

    I love your analysis, Tim.

    I think we are seeing the bankruptcy of the entire Gingrich ideology, but the Cheney-cheerleading dead-enders will not go quietly into that dark night — they’ll only get louder, in fact, as they sink into irrelevancy.

  31. 31
    carpeicthus says:

    I read Free Republic throughout the Clinton years, thinking of doing the same sort of work that Dave Neiwert ended up doing. Seriously, you have no idea. The level of insanity dredged up against a moderate, Southern, white president was worse than I see on popular blogs today. With President Obama it will be just monsyllabic gibbering and reaching for the pitchforks.

  32. 32
    Dennis - SGMM says:

    OTOH, there will be many laugh-out-loud moments as the wingnuts uncover the sinister associations and nefarious plots designed to sap and impurify their precious bodily fluids.

  33. 33
    Brian J says:

    I will write a larger, more detailed post on this as election day approaches, but suffice it to say that there are a few solid reasons why Obama should be elected over McCain:

    1. Obama’s administration won’t shun expertise.

    2. Obama’s administration won’t demonize its opposition like the Republicans.

    3. Obama’s administration won’t politicize entire departments of the government, like the Justice Department.

    Right off the top of my head, that’s a very strong case for an Obama administration. He won’t be perfect by any stretch, but even if you are unsure of his policies, I don’t think Obama would hire unqualified idiots for important positions, won’t claim his opponents are enemies of the country, and won’t consider the Justice Department as a toy for partisan purposes.

  34. 34
    TenguPhule says:

    For a while. But people learn. If they don’t, then the American Epxperiment was doomed from the get go. I don’t believe that it was, I think people learn.

    long enough to get the country into deep shit.

    People learn. Problem is, they usually don’t learn fast enough.

  35. 35
    Third Eye Open says:

    Expect at least four years of Odingasecretmooslimgentsia starting from ohhh, now!

    Corsi will be rehabilitated in the minds of these maroons, and the slow news days will be filled with the parsing of innocuous hand-gestures and laments of the Heathers.

    Someday I will rock lazily on my front porch, half-way through my first bottle of Jim, and my second marriage. I will nod, knowingly, at the hound by my feet and proclaim to the four winds that, "I survived the reign of King George, what kind of bullshit do you got that stinks worse than that?"

    Fuck the vultures, and Fuck the glad-handers, I am a card-carry member of the ACLU and the dog might just be rabid.

    Now get the fuck off my lawn!

  36. 36

    Speaking of wingnuts, anyone else see this video from TPM of the pastor at a McCain rally basically threatening God with the loss of His reputation if He doesn’t come through with a McCain win? Funny stuff.

  37. 37
    Big E says:

    Someone should be posting the locations of intervention centers for republicans and neo-cons so they will be able to find appropriate support groups late night Nov 4th….

    ..programs that will be available are selected readings from Coulter, Rush, Savage, Malkin and Red State.

    Please have them leave their guns at the door.

  38. 38
    ThymeZone says:

    Problem is, they usually don’t learn fast enough.

    Ah.

    Well, then, we are doomed, I guess.

    GBCW, etc.

  39. 39
    cain says:

    If voters ever thinks about voting republican, they can always look at that huge dip in their 401k and recall who the hell screwed the pooch on that.

    It happened on their watch. Worse, U.S. the so called greatest nation in the world allowed Europe to take the leadership role. Heckeva job, guys.

    That should shut up any wingnut. But we will need to be on guard for next 8 years. Now, if McCain wins then we’re going to see some serious damage to the country. By the time the first 4 years are done there won’t be anything left to save. I won’t be worrying about peak-wingnut then.

    cain

  40. 40
    AnotherBruce says:

    "And Sarah Palin intends to be the voice of these people."

    I wish her all the luck in the world in her endeavor, better her than someone smart like Huckabee. She’s really just a high school alpha girl that’s stepped out of her league. I think that it’s going to be great if the wingnuts continue to make her their leader.

    The Democratic presidential ticket was/is smart to ignore her, save some of that ammo for when it will have the maximum effect. Just because she’s ruthless and ambitious doesn’t mean she isn’t a mediocrity.

  41. 41
    ThymeZone says:

    Just because she’s ruthless and ambitious doesn’t mean she isn’t a mediocrity.

    Exactly.

  42. 42
    raft says:

    i don’t think the online left is going to remain unified in the wake of an Obama Presidency, which is a good thing, because we’re a big tent with a lot of diversity.

    But we’ll never be wingnuts. We will know this because we’ll be fighting tooth and claw against the real wingnuts and their batshit insanity for the next eight years.

    Folks, we’re in power now. At maybe one of the most dangerous and critical times in the history of the country. We’ll have to clean up after the toxic sea of shit dumped on us by the Bush Administration and at the same time man the barricades against an incoming tidal wave of wingnuttery. Fair? No, it’s fucking impossible. But it’s up to us anyway.

    Put on your hazmat suits and take a deep breath. Then let’s go save the country.

  43. 43
    Garrigus Carraig says:

    […] Democrats can govern.

    Whatever you say.

  44. 44
    dBa says:

    I was prepared to say PeaK Wingnut was upon us, until I read a post about a wingnut afraid his nuts were gonna be cut off in a motel room after some drunken monkey sex.

    I mean come, a wingnut having drunken monkey sex?

  45. 45
    TenguPhule says:

    I mean come, a wingnut having drunken monkey sex?

    We all know that the wingnut wouldn’t bother to buy them a drink.

  46. 46
    henry lewis says:

    I will grant that the online left should come out better than the online right for the simple reason that Democrats can govern they are not bigoted sociopaths with eighth-grade-level writing skills.

  47. 47
    Ed Marshall says:

    Speaking of wingnuts, anyone else see this video from TPM of the pastor at a McCain rally basically threatening God with the loss of His reputation if He doesn’t come through with a McCain win? Funny stuff.

    God is going to have some egg on his face this November.

    I guess they all curse Him in the aftermath.

  48. 48
    Brett says:

    With President Obama it will be just monsyllabic gibbering and reaching for the pitchforks.

    Even worse . . . given the number of safe Republican districts, the gibberers will be in Congress by 2010, in even greater numbers than now. Think: a flock of younger Dan Burtons who actually think Obama is a secret muslim.

  49. 49
    slag says:

    I’ve come to the conclusion that one-third of the American population is certified wingnut. That a HUGE percentage. There is no end to wingnut in the foreseeable future. Our only hope is to vastly improve our educational system to minimize future wingnut outbreaks. Think of it like a wingnut Apollo project.

    Down to one-fifth wingnut by 2050!

  50. 50

    @Garrigus Carraig:

    Whatever you say.

    We try. At the very least, we have the core belief that government can do good if it’s run by people who believe that it’s capable of doing good. Republicans, on the other hand, believe government can only do harm and they do a pretty good job of making sure that happens while they’re in charge.

  51. 51
    Delia says:

    Speaking of wingnuts, anyone else see this video from TPM of the pastor at a McCain rally basically threatening God with the loss of His reputation if He doesn’t come through with a McCain win? Funny stuff.

    The pastor threatening God with the loss of his reputation made KO’s Worst Person tonight, and is certainly a good example of a Peak Wingnut.

    But this whole thing had me tripping down Memory Lane to the year 2000, Bush v. Gore, and memories of gloating wingnuts writing things like "Hey, all you moonbats. Bush won, fair and square. Get over it." So much to say, so little need to say it at this point.

    Yes, wingnuttery will be always with us. Yes, the Moose Queen may likely be their heroine for a while (much to the Huckster’s disgust, I’m sure), until she manages to disgrace herself even in their eyes. Yes, they’ll try to do something to upend Obama, but I don’t think it will be as easy as with the Clintons.

  52. 52
    e_majorana says:

    The sickness will still be there. Conservative talk radio feeds on the resentments and hatred of the war of All Against All created by free-market capitalism. The goal of the conservative elite is to make sure the ‘lower orders’ continue to devour themselves.

    I’m old enough to remember what blue collar solidarity was before it got splintered into those tiny little fortress enclaves called the suburban home, the so-called nuclear family and an ethic of every man for himself.

    Phooey!

  53. 53
    Stevenovitch says:

    I bet 50 bucks that Greenwald is first against the wall.

  54. 54
    ronin122 says:

    All I have to say is that the wingnuts are like cockroaches, both in their own being and in how no matter what you can’t just get rid of all of them. Yeah they’ll be around and act nutty but eventually they’re gonna have to grow a few brain cells if they want to stay relevant.

  55. 55
    Lesley says:

    Short of duct tape and a gorilla tranquilizer, or death by natural causes, nothing is going to shut extreme right wing loons the hell up. Hell, they don’t even pause for breath before spewing ever more fantastic bullshit from their bottomless pie holes. Ever since the neoconservative mothership birthed its first shitload of pundits, the craziness has only intensified. I never thought I’d see anything worse than Bush-Cheney until McCain-Palin materialized. Now I expect to see more even worse than that. I can’t imagine how awful it might be but I’m thinking Alien marries Predator somewhere in the heartland.

  56. 56
    Brandon says:

    Contrary indicators. If you’re like me, looking for psychological signs when market corrections are overreacting/underreacting, you notice that a lot of this behavior from the right is the same thing. You have to look not at the absolute level of the nuttery, but the level relative to the actual circumstances. What you’re looking for is if opinion is going overboard, because this tends to trigger cognitive dissonance and begin moving opinion in the opposite direction.

    Bill Clinton actually DID have federal agents at his beck and call. Bill Clinton DID engage in coverups (affairs, not murders, of course). So although the absolute level of wingnuttery of the "black helicopter" folks was pretty high, I’d argue that the relative level of wingnuttery was only moderate, because it was at least partly grounded in reality.

    Barack Obama, on the other hand, currently has no control over the economy, and little influence in the Senate. Barack Obama is a standard, upper middle-class professional type devoted to his wife. Barack Obama is a boring centrist who most liberals WISH had more radical leftist connections. So this fearmongering about him being a terrorist, planning a coup to take over the U.S., "palling around with terrorists", turning america into a socialist country, methed out gay sex with a prostitute etc–is a much higher RELATIVE level of wingnuttery than the black helicopter folks with Clinton. Can any of you think of the last time a candidate this boring triggered this level of craziness? It’s a massive, padded-cell level of overreaction.

    The end result is that the average person is beginning to see the discord between rightwing claims and the man himself.

  57. 57
    Lesley says:

    P.S. On the other hand, a number – not sure how many, but it seems to be growing – of once-neocons ain’t voting for McCain and that needs to be shoved down the throats of these assholes. I hope to see many turned pundits list their reasons publicly. If stubborn loons decide they can still live in the USA hating the vast majority of Americans, they’re going to be extremely uncomfortable. I suppose they’ll have to find a gated community somewhere to share. The country’s certainly large enough to accommodate them.

  58. 58
    Lupin says:

    Sarah Palin is Harmony from BUFFY. And she’ll be just as obnoxious — and effective.

  59. 59
    jcricket says:

    Wingnuttia has been thriving since the halcyon days of Ronald Reagan.

    Seriously, this group is made up of two classes: the patsy /christianist who has been brainwashed to think that the man in the pulpit of their particular church is channelling God Himself; and the cynical neo-con/ politician who simply wants to create an obstacle for a democrat or progressive and does everything he/she can to totally use the christianist’s ignorance as a ready made voting block.

    One group has elders who cherry pick biblical phrases to support their own agenda, and omit the inconvenience of mercy, compassion, and living austere lives. The other sets up the talking point of the day with the objective of getting as many of the willing-soldiers-of-christianism to ritually take up the mantra of the day. It is a feeding frenzy between the eager to please, and the eager to use.

    None of this will go away once Obama is sworn in (knock wood). These people found their calling during the Clinton administration and will find inspiration in trying to undermine the first black president.

    It’s a sick relationship between the ignorant useful, and the manipulatives. But it’s really out there, and it ain’t going to go away as long as we progressives truly value the rights of free speech and free association as we do. Their ultimate protection to continue are our basic values.

    the real jcricket

  60. 60
    LeRoy says:

    Until the MSM decides that rightwing extremists should not be given free reign on their stations/channels, the public mind will remain vulnerable to serious infection.

    Is there no way that we can make media executives see that it is unfair and immoral to allow totally discredited views to gain wide audiences?

    OK, so there isn’t. RW bluster sells. It’s seductive, like fascism itself.

    But I dream on. I see Glenn Beck and Lou Dobbs on the executive carpet: "We’re taking you guys off the air unless you provide solid proof that you’re not making up stuff or citing suspicious sources. There’ll be low tolerance."

    Ah yes, and I see Rupert Murdoch in a public court accused of trying to undermine America’s democratic system. The evidence fills 10,000 crates. Yes, dream on.

    (Aside: at my urging, my daughter searched for Obama’s stopthesmears website, but instead of typing in the address she made a Google search. Up came a site called "Stop Obama". They’re even hacking Google and getting away with it.)

  61. 61
    bedlam UK says:

    I wonder who will take over the Rethugs when McPalin go down in flames?
    Who they choose will show alot about where that party will be heading for the next few years; they need to rebuild pretty much from the foundations after they’ve destroyed essentially the core of what the Republican Party is supposed to mean ( and I dont mean the rethug slugs version of it ).

    I honestly believe that Obama will turn things around for your country. Not immediatly obviously as the country is in such a mess, but currently so is most of the West. I believe Obama can unite America with Europe and other friendly nations again, build bridges and relationships and start to show a real America.
    Bringing hardwork and intelligence back to fore rather than the buy it in and shoot it down crap you’ve had.

    Wingnut world will always have a queue at the ticketbooth, but most of the rides are shut down due to safety issues.
    Rage cannot be sustained indefinately. Every mob slowly devolves back to its seperate entities and most people are more interested in food on the table than any political hackery once the Elections are done and the politicians have gone back to their 7 homes.

    I just hope for my own personal amusement that Palin is sent back to Alaska to finish her final days of politics before taking up Jerry Springers offer.

    "what do you mean we lost? you told me that if I spouted all your stuff I’d be President. That old duffer would be gone in a year and I’d be No.1. Just as God ordained!
    How dare you allow us to lose. A curse on all your houses"

  62. 62
    Kelly says:

    I agree Tim. I remember; Rush was doing ok during the Bush I years didn’t reach the peak of his popularity until Clinton was elected. Obama’s election is going to turn the wackos loose in a major, major way.

  63. 63
    El Cid says:

    John Cole:

    I think that this all depends on how you measure Peak Wingnut.

    Is it exclusively about how crazy Wingnuttistan is willing to be?

    Or is it a combination of their own craziness with public prominence and, more importantly, impact.

    We have reached and passed Peak Wingnut if it means that Wingnuttistan gets to make the crazy part of our actual public reality.

    I don’t care how crazy the right gets — it’s whether or not their crazy gets to dominate public discourse and even policy.

    For the last 7.5 years Wingnuttistan was part of the king’s court. Now they may be the jesters.

  64. 64
    bedlam UK says:

    Sort of fits here,

    Billboard with a Turbaned Obama.

    Stay classy Rightwingers.

  65. 65
    El Cid says:

    I am not allowed to edit for some reason (Firefox?), so sorry for putting that big "John Cole:" when it was a post by Tim F.

  66. 66
    Marshall says:

    The last time around, they were crushed for 20 years, and didn’t regain power for 50 years. People tend to have long memories about this sort of stuff.

  67. 67
    Marshall says:

    Is there no way that we can make media executives see that it is unfair and immoral to allow totally discredited views to gain wide audiences?

    There used to be a way – it was called the Fairness Doctrine. It by and large worked. Reagan got rid of it.

    Reagan is in many, many, ways the vector of this contagion. He took what had been largely bottled up and made it mainstream and removed most of the constraints against it. Oh, and don’t forget that he revved up the war on drugs to go after his political enemies. I will not feel that our country is truly safe as long as his name is on National AIrport.

  68. 68
    Conservatively Liberal says:

    The Anchorage Daily News takes Palin to task over her interpretation of the Troopergate investigation findings absolving her of any wrongdoing.

    The article is brutal.

  69. 69
    oh really says:

    It is reasonable to hope that a crushing defeat will shock some sense into the Right, but it is unreasonable to expect that outcome.

  70. 70
    El-Franklo says:

    Violent times are coming to the homeland. Our home grown terrorists are going to feel empowered to again start up the destruction – even more so now that a "black man" democrat is in charge.

    The only reason we have had a relatively "calm" period of time on US soil during the Bush years is two-fold: Number One is the republicans in power found a new boogie-man to scare and distract the neckers-de-rouge, and equated diplomacy with hating Americuh. Number Two is the republicans made false money out of the sky, fooling the neckers-de-rouge into thinking money grows on trees.

    The end result? The neckers-de-rouge eventually get screwed by their republican saviors; they find a scapegoat to blame (pointed out by their masters), and "go to town". Sadly, we are caught in the middle.

    P.S. Learn to shoot back (I need to – since I have no gun training.)

  71. 71
    pir says:

    i guess some doesn’t remember the clinton years. i do. and you’re right; people who don’t remember those years Have No Idea how bad it’ll get. also, the mess is much bigger now, and an obama administration will have a hard time cleaning it up; they won’t have a lot of progressive policy on their minds for quite a while, so the left will fracture even faster than usual.

    i am not exactly looking forward to that. but the price is worth it — i hope. if obama can hang on to the tone he’s kept unfailingly through his campaign, that alone will be worth a lot — i would really like to return to the days when i could hold a civil discussion with conservatives instead of feeling even i was turning into a paranoid wingnut thanks to rove and his all-permeating slime. i can ignore extreme wingnuttery (hey, i was trained on usenet), but when that disturbed behaviour takes over entire swaths of the net population it’s hard not to want to confront it.

  72. 72
    HeartlandLiberal says:

    The guys over at Redstate have already been planning the dissolution of the nation that will ensue because right thinking ‘Muricans like them will not be able to tolerate his institution of socialism and un-‘Murican values.

    No. Really. They have not even waited until after the election, they even have the time-line all outlined. The nation will collapse into fragments sometime by Spring 2009.

  73. 73
    pir says:

    i guess some don’t remember the clinton years. i do. and you’re right; people who don’t remember those years Have No Idea how bad it’ll get. also, the mess is much bigger now, and an obama administration will have a hard time cleaning it up; they won’t have a lot of progressive policy on their minds for quite a while, so the left will fracture even faster than usual.

    i am not exactly looking forward to that. but the price is worth it — i hope. if obama can hang on to the tone he’s kept unfailingly through his campaign, that alone will be worth a lot — i would really like to return to the days when i could hold a civil discussion with conservatives instead of feeling even i was turning into a paranoid wingnut thanks to rove and his all-permeating slime. i can ignore extreme wingnuttery (hey, i was trained on usenet), but when that disturbed behaviour takes over entire swaths of the net population it’s hard not to want to confront it.

  74. 74
    zzyzx says:

    Where’s my "Whitey" tape damnit? I was promised a "Whitey" tape!

  75. 75
    Rommie says:

    Obama really really really needs to have the Senate end up with easy access to 60 votes on his side if/when he wins. If it doesn’t turn out that way, the defeated Right(tm) will have their access for revenge, and block EVERYTHING they can out of sheer spite.

    I know because I’ve seen it happen at a smaller scale in Michigan. Governor Granholm had the nerve to get re-elected in 2006 and the republican Senate stomped their feet and gridlocked anything Dear Jenny supported.

    While Obama has more "talent" to handle that kind of fight, he’ll also face more than the petty vindictiveness the Michigan GOP generated – it’ll be pure anger and rage thrown at him if the U.S. Senate isn’t near 60. It’ll take crazy to level eleventy.

  76. 76
    Karmakin says:

    What Joe Max said.

    You’re talking about two different things at the same time here, and they can both be true. Will the Wingnuts scream louder than ever? Oh hell yes. And at the same time, I think that it’ll be a less welcoming environment for their brand of insanity. I think that post-Palin, people are going to look at these people in a much different light, and in fact they already are.

    They’re going to be seen as artifacts of the McCain campaign. All attacks, no ideas to fix the problems of the day. In short….they’re haters.

    And the more the spotlight is critical of them, the louder and more insane they’ll get. And they’ll eventually alienate more and more people who hit their "limit". I don’t know how it’ll end, but unfortunately I have a feeling someone is going to get hurt.

  77. 77
    Rick Taylor says:

    I’m not so sure. It’s not that I ever expect the right wing to be "shamed into silence," but I do think a crushing defeat might cause them to have less influence on the general discourse. Think of how it’s been for the Democrats and the left. It’s been taken as a given that the fringe left are a millstone around the Democratic parties neck, that the party is always torn between being reasonable and appealing to their whacky left. Democratic candidates we’re supposed to show they were serious by disavowing the crazier of element of their party, especially in military matters, and there was tisk tisking when, say, Michael Moore got a seat in the Democratic convention. And of course no Democratic running for office wanted to be described by the dreaded L word.

    So I wonder if the same thing couldn’t happen to the right. McCain’s blatant attempt to appease the right by choosing Palin seems to be backfiring, and even more reasonable Republicans are beginning to speak out against the more extreme attacks of Obama at Republican rallies.

    Something seems to be happening that hasn’t happened before, and that’s long over due.

  78. 78
    slightly_peeved says:

    Reagan is in many, many, ways the vector of this contagion. He took what had been largely bottled up and made it mainstream and removed most of the constraints against it. Oh, and don’t forget that he revved up the war on drugs to go after his political enemies. I will not feel that our country is truly safe as long as his name is on National AIrport.

    The reason for hope is that Obama is the vaccine.

    Obama has planned since the start of his campaign to be the anti-Reagan – the guy who gets a broad popular mandate to shift the dialog of the US back to the left.

    He’s run a campaign which, in recent weeks, looks to have produced results similar to Reagan against Carter – a massive break to the non-incumbent party after the debates, when it turned out the apparently scary guy wasn’t so scary after all. He will become president (touch wood, etc) at a point where the Republican brand has been destroyed.

    The other big thing he has in his favour is that he, if elected, will have a mandate to implement government healthcare. Now the government plan Obama’s proposing can’t have the barriers on entry that private health care does, because it wouldn’t insure the uninsured and it’d be pointless. For the same reason, unless it’s a complete debacle it won’t deny coverage based on pre-existing conditions. Thirdly, since it’s not linked to an employer, it would presumably be portable.

    If Obama implements his health plan in a way that is at least as competent as the private health insurance companies, but with the advantages described above, it will be a competitive alternative to private healthcare. If done right (a big if, I agree) people may move to government healthcare because it is a better product than the private industry provides.

    And I reckon that that could be a stronger blow to wingnuttery than the election of Obama in the first place. With healthcare, Obama has the chance to demonstrate the lie of the Republican mantra that government can’t do anything as well as private business.

  79. 79

    @Marshall: And if they stay on the air, flinging spit at the microphones, it’ll be even longer.

    Fingers crossed!

    When the pResident addressed the economy last year the S.O. got angry because he was lying and no one was calling him on it. I said that people can’t be deceived about their personal situation and that of their neighbors. If some grinning schmuck claims everything is hunky dory and they can’t pay their bills and everyone around them is grumbling about the same thing, the grinning schmuck sounds crazy. And if the grinning schmuck keeps saying everything is fine when it is clear to any fool that things are not fine, people get pissed off at him.

    I think we’ll see essentially the same thing with WingNuts if we get two straight terms of Democratic control of the White House/Congress. Only in that scenario the nuts will be screaming about how we’re all doooomed and everything is awful and poopy, as things steadily improve.

    And as a side issue, thanks to Bush 99.9% of the population passed the fear threshold a long time ago. People constantly screaming LOOK OUT!! has gotten really old and a lot of people are too busy worrying someone will come cut off their utilities to worry that some guy will come blow up the local Bigfoot.

  80. 80
    Anne Laurie says:

    I think the wingnut welfare is going to start to dry up. The economy is getting too rough for the kind of largess we saw in the late 90s and early 00s. Will the Drudges and Pammys carry on if they aren’t getting paid like they used to be?

    Depends on what each individual wingnut thinks they have to sell, and their place along the axis between raw political calculation and genuine ideological belief. Within days of an Obama/Biden win, Matt Drudge will be in touch with his Democrat "sources" to offer unretouched video of Dusty Foggo’s pool parties, David Horowitz will announce his new crusade to drive the running dogs of the anti-intellectual GOP out of academia, Jonah Goldberg will bleg his readers to do the heavy lifting for his upcoming book "Actual Genuine American Facism: from Mom the Ratfcking Goldwater Girl to Dick Cheney’s Figurehead the C-Plus Augustus", and Ann Coulter will be shilling a joint "Only Kidding — We (Heart) Obama X!" tour with Camille Paglia. Rush Limbaugh will reach his first non-drug-fueled orgasm in decades as he realizes he’ll be able to go back to collecting his salary just for releasing his inner bigot on-air, without the tedious need to justify the unjustifiable (Hurricane FEMA, anti-scienctism) acts of his party at its most powerful. Newt Gingrich will ramp up his campaign to "purify" the remnant Republicans into a Permanent Minority, a third-party band of hardcore 15%ers who have no hope of achieving broad power but great chances at obtaining unlimited perks & publicity for their canny leaders by trading their votes to the larger coalition parties in return for specific favors.

    On the other hand, where’s a Sarah Palin going to take her bottomless "God-derived" ambition and political narcissism in a freshly humbled Republican Party under a resurgent Democratic President and Democratic-majority Congress? Who’s going to pay Hugh Hewitt to explain that "It must be a very strange thing to be President Obama, widely considered an intelligent human being and a damned effective politician?" Who’s going to give Pamela Oshry or Michelle Malkin air time, if they’re incapable of rechanneling their personal demons political beliefs in a new America where ‘Muslim’ is no longer the worst possible accusation and anti-diversity crusades have become unfashionable?

    No, the same wingnuts we’ve come to know & loathe will be with us in January 2009 as they were in January 2005, and the only thing worse than the redoubled insanity of the hardcore remnants — the eternal Rethuglican Authoritarian / Evangelical / Libertarian triangle (aka fReichtards, Talibangelicals & Robber Barons) — will be the blandishments of our new "recovered Repub" would-be "allies" seeking to sell the same hatreds & ugliness out of their newly-branded Obama-riffic sensibilities.

  81. 81
    Rick Taylor says:

    Off topic, but I’m struck but how easily McCain flat out lies now, saying he’s heard people say the same thing about him during Obama rallies when challenged how they’re crying out "terrorist" and such at his.

  82. 82
    jeff says:

    It’s like 1964 again with Goldwater’s crushing defeat. It will only encouraged the ultra radical, of the radical of the right, to mobilize.

    The fact that their ideology has brought the world to financial ruin is not their fault. It’s that they weren’t radical enough. They weren’t more aggressive in imposing their ideology on everyone.

    At 60 I don’t expect to see them in complete power again during my lifetime. That doesn’t mean the left can ever become complacent. The right will lick their wounds and bide their time, waiting to strike again. They will.

  83. 83
    RememberNovember says:

    So question is, should we end up with a Democratic Executive and Dem-favored house and Senate, wlll the wingnuts backslide into a Proletariat led by a Politboro of Elitist muckrakers? Or will the pendulum swing back next election cycle to counter balance?

    This whole "one party" State was proferred by the Right, fwiw. Just not their party right now, so they bitch and moan. Stuff happens. Politicians need to put their big pants on and look at the big picture.

  84. 84
    Alex says:

    But presumably you, John, will be working on a wave of primary challenges to wingnut candidates, or a Campaign for Real Conservatives?

  85. 85
    nabalzbbfr says:

    The Obama storylines about his normal all-American boyhood are finally being exposed for the fairytales they really are. It is now becoming crystal clear, with the latest revelations about their family friends, that his mother and grandparents brought Obama up in an atmosphere which makes the cannibal family in Texas Chainsaw Massacre look positively tame.

    No, that is not a man who sees America the way normal Americans see America! The McCain campaign should aggressively expose all of Obama’s unsavory associations and point out how far from normal Obama really is.

  86. 86
    bedlam UK says:

    @Rick Taylor

    Just wait for the Rethug plants this week playing the abusive Obama fan hating on McCain at Obamas rallies.

    Luckily Obama has already stepped on the booing, superbly i might add.
    "we dont need that, we just need to vote"

  87. 87
    bedlam UK says:

    Like what nabalzbbfr??
    or can I call you Nibbles?

    What atmosphere are you refering too? any links?
    Thanks.

  88. 88
    jbd says:

    I don’t think you can fairly blame Reagan for the current state of the right. Yeah, he had his share of embarrassments (Ed Meese, Iran-Contra, budget deficits). But if you take a hard look at the condition the country was in when he took over, I think (if you’re not an ideologue) you have to admit that he did some things that had to be done, and did them competently (broke the back of inflation, tamed excessive regulation on business, adopted a tough but pragmatic foreign policy).

    Bush II has been a completely different animal. The level of incompetence and unreason is staggering. And I think the biggest factor is the role of the fundies. Reagan humored and condescended to them, but he was a chamber of commerce guy, not a snake handler. Bush II, on the other hand, has promoted loyalty and blind faith above all and transformed the Republican Party into a weird kind of cult. He and Rove take the blame, not Reagan.

  89. 89
    tas says:

    Before posting a comment, I searched this thread for the word "blowjob". I’m surprised I didn’t find it… What is peak wingnut? Will we ever see it? Let’s not forget, these are the exact same people who had such a temper tantrum over the fact that Clinton was in the White House that they impeached him for a couple of blowjobs.

    Yes, they’re nuts. Yes, they actually do think we’re all communists. Yes, they think that unless fundies are elected Christianity will be oppressed. Yes.. Yes to your next question, and so on, and so forth. The insanity doesn’t stop with these people; not in November. Not in the next four years, where they’ll surely try impeaching Obama because of his middle name.. These people will make oral sex into a crime if it suits their purposes. Ridiculous? Certainly. But it just. Doesn’t. Stop.

  90. 90
    jcricket says:

    Tim/John – the "real jcricket" above, although sounding like me, is not me (I’m sure you can check IP addresses to see I’m posting from the one I usually do, and the other person is not).

    To the "not jcricket" – Get another handle dude – I’ve been posting here under this once since 2005.

    Back to the topic at hand. I welcome more wingnut. Seriously. When it’s just talk radio, or just the black helicopter crowd, it lets other people vote Republican and ignore the crazies. When Malkin, Coulter, Savage, the Freepers, RedState, etc. have power – it turns everyone off.

    Look at the stunning collapse on all issues and personal favorables after they nominated a smooth-talking but obvious wingnut to the VP ticket. Sunshine is the great disinfectant – not for the wingnuts, who are apparently immune, but for everyone else who only has a mild case of GOPitis.

  91. 91
    cain says:

    family friends, that his mother and grandparents brought Obama up in an atmosphere which makes the cannibal family in Texas Chainsaw Massacre look positively tame

    GODDAM IT! Thanks a fucking lot! I haven’t even watched that movie and you put in a goddam spoiler! You asshole! Put a spoiler next time you give out a plot in a movie! GODDAM! I was going to watch that this weekend, been saving up and now you gave some part of it away. GRRR!

    I’m disappointed.

    cain

  92. 92
    Graeme says:

    I remember the Clinton years all too well. You’re right: this is NOTHING. Black helicopters. Stories about Russian troops spotted in the US. Vince Foster.

    This is nothing.

    The key is that I think it will be different this time. Obama should be sane and boring, for the most part. If that remains the case, the Right will continue to look insane if they pull it.

    Because it is insane.

  93. 93
    LiberalTarian says:

    Well said Tim.

  94. 94
    Hob says:

    Rommie @75: "the defeated Right™ will have their access for revenge, and block EVERYTHING they can [in Congress] out of sheer spite."

    That’s actually the one thing I’m slightly optimistic about. Things may not have been so great in 1992, but the nation wasn’t facing multiple horrible crises the way we are now (or at least, none that we would acknowledge). If I were a Republican Senator with even half a brain, I might actually think twice about making a big show of obstructing everything when my constituents are all shit-scared for their jobs. Of course, if things rapidly improve then that doesn’t apply, but that’d be cool too.

    AnotherBruce @40:
    I’m glad Palin is ruthless and ambitious. It makes it less likely that she’ll agree to be just a cheery fascist figurehead, which she’s clearly well suited to. She’d want to be in there running the party, and I can’t imagine her being good at that.

  95. 95
    boonagain says:

    I was bored and googled ‘nabalzbbfr’.

    After reading his posts at Salon and other places, I really believe that he is as wrong as frequently as Bill Kristol.

    My hat’s off to you for that.

    (Doya still think the new "McCain" Supreme Court is gonna change that habeus corpus decision?)

  96. 96
    LeRoy says:

    Post 71 says, "I guess some don’t remember the Clinton years."

    Yes indeed, what a time that was for witchhuning! A presidency pilloried by the Grand Inquisitor Ken Starr, who was treated with great respect by the MSM; the FOX News desk under orders to produce a Whitewater scandal story every single day!!!

    The Clintons, of course, were eventually acquitted of the phony Whitewater charges, but hardly anyone noticed by then. Fox just sneared and moved on. Under Obama, as No. 71 correctly observes, it will be Clinton all over. Maybe worse.

    My proposal: a national award ceremony – in Yankee Stadium or on the Washington Mall – for all those journalists who got it right; who did not deceive the public at any time, who waded through the muck to ensure that the public had access to the truth. A highlight would be the unveiling of a monument to the late Molly Ivins. In short, the nation would see that those big names they see and hear are not as respected as they thought. Not a single garland for them; not a sign of repect. Let their bosses take note.

    Soros might fund the event. Anyone know him?

  97. 97

    I agree that the wingnuts will double down after a "crushing defeat". I think the more interesting question is will they have the same unfettered channel to feed their bile into the mainstream that they used so effectively in the past?

    It is my hope that a stronger left-wing media apparatus, combined with an American public numbed by eight years of Bush, will shut down that channel.

    We shall see.

  98. 98

    […] response to John’s famous Peak Wingnut post I pointed out that the idea that rightwing victimology […]

Trackbacks & Pingbacks

  1. […] response to John’s famous Peak Wingnut post I pointed out that the idea that rightwing victimology […]

Comments are closed.