Post Debate Thread

Again, I am a homer, but I felt Obama won pretty handily.

I am sure McCain’s “that one” comment will be a topic on the intertrons tomorrow.

Finally, I guess what it boils down to is that, McCain, for all his tough guy talk, is just a tired old wimp. Given ninety minutes to go after Obama like he and his partner and his surrogates have the past few days, and he said nothing. Given all that time to question Obama’s patriotism, to question his background, to suggest he does not support the troops, and McCain refused to do it. Why didn’t he look him in the eyes and call him Sen. Hussein like his surrogates are doing? Or is that just supposed to be in the background, to make Obama look suspect, to accuse him of being in league with terrorists- but like every punk and every bully he can’t own up to it himself.

On the other hand, Obama, every time he landed a punch, it was something he has done above board, in public. There is no scummy underbelly launching into questions of character- all his punches were fair, legitimate, and issue based. All his punches were on things he had mentioned before, publicly, things he is man enough to put in his commercials and repeat right in John McCain’s face.

What a sad, pathetic, small man John McCain has turned into right before our very eyes.

And don’t tell me that is just how the game is played- McCain is supposed to act Presidential and Palin is the attack dog. I don’t remember anyone ever whipping crowds into such a froth that they are shouting terrorist and treason and the like in an election, let alone in a time of war. McCain had a chance to own his shit, to say to Obama what his campaign has said for days, and he wimped out. John McCain was not man enough to say to Barack Obama’s face and to the rest of the nation all the things Sarah Palin spouts off 3-5 times a day. End of story.

*** Update ***

Some cornerites are in a full-fledged panic:

We have a disaster here — which is what you should expect when you delegate a non-conservative to make the conservative (nay, the American) case. We can parse it eight ways to Sunday, but I think the commentary is missing the big picture.

Here’s what Obama needed to do tonight: Convince the country that he was an utterly safe, conventional, centrist politician who may have leftward leanings but will do the right thing when the crunch comes.

Now, as the night went along, did you get the impression that Obama comes from the radical Left? Did you sense that he funded Leftist causes to the tune of tens of millions of dollars? Would you have guessed that he’s pals with a guy who brags about bombing the Pentagon? Would you have guessed that he helped underwrite raging anti-Semites? Would you come away thinking, “Gee, he’s proposing to transfer nearly a trillion dollars of wealth to third-world dictators through the UN”?

Nope. McCain didn’t want to go there. So Obama comes off as just your average Center-Left politician. Gonna raise your taxes a little, gonna negotiate reasonably with America’s enemies; gonna rely on our very talented federal courts to fight terrorists and solve most of America’s problems; gonna legalize millions of hard-working illegal immigrants.

McCain? He comes off as Center-Right .. or maybe Center-Left … but, either way, deeply respectful of Obama despite their policy quibbles.

Great. Memo to McCain Campaign: Someone is either a terrorist sympathizer or he isn’t; someone is either disqualified as a terrorist sympathizer or he’s qualified for public office. You helped portray Obama as a clealy qualified presidential candidate who would fight terrorists.

If that’s what the public thinks, good luck trying to win this thing.

With due respect, I think tonight was a disaster for our side. I’m dumbfounded that no one else seems to think so. Obama did everything he needed to do, McCain did nothing he needed to do. What am I missing?

See, the thing is, Obama isn’t all those things, and McCain doesn’t think he is all those things. Which is why what the McCain campaign has done the past few weeks is so disgusting.

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158 replies
  1. 1
    Apsaras says:

    Where the hell did Norah O’Donnell get those undecided voters?

  2. 2

    Harold "I’m right less often than a broken clock" Ford said it was hard to tell if there was a clear winner. That basically makes it a blowout for Obama.

  3. 3
    Clutch414 says:

    I thought Obama won this debate much more clearly than the first one.

  4. 4
    Bailey says:

    Obama seemed a clear winner to me tonight, but I seriously can’t be bothered by the "that one" statement. I didn’t think it was meant to be racist or necessarily dismissive. I think it was supposed to be funny. The fact that it really wasn’t shouldn’t mean that it was an attack of any sort.

  5. 5
    Montysano (All Hail Marx & Lennon) says:

    Let me go right to issues of substance: Michelle Obama is stunningly beautiful.

  6. 6
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    Where the hell did Norah O’Donnell get those undecided voters?

    I dunno, but more than a few of them were weird as hell. You know that one silver-haired dude on the back row has a trunk full of baby arms.

  7. 7

    John McCain has decided to lose the election, his honor, his integrity, and his credibility. His choice. I think Obama’s going to win this election now. And I think it’s going to be by a big enough margin that the powers that be in the Republican Party will not let Palin anywhere near the nomination, ever. Thank God for that.

  8. 8
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    Harold "I’m right less often than a broken clock" Ford said it was hard to tell if there was a clear winner.

    If that maggot Ford shows up in an Obama administration, they’re all dead to me.

  9. 9
    Andrew says:

    Why does John Cole hate Navy Chiefs?

  10. 10
    Mary says:

    With out a shadow of a doubt, Barack won tonight. I have to admit at some points during the debate, I was saying Barack SUCKS because he will not come out and say for health insurance, single payer is the way to go and we HAVE to get out of the Middle East.
    That really bothers me.

  11. 11
    Laura W says:

    You know that one silver-haired dude on the back row has a trunk full of baby arms.

    You say that like it’s a bad thing.

  12. 12
    Andrew says:

    Ford really is the scummiest of scum. I’d rather have an anti-rational nutcase like Coburn in charge of something than that slime bucket.

  13. 13

    like every punk and every bully he can’t own up to it himself.

    That’s my vote.

  14. 14
    Stuck in the Fun House says:

    Sarah Palin spouts off 3-5 times a day. End of story.

    Sarah Serendipity is twice the man Mccain is. Who’d a thunk it. I look for her to initiate ritual liebrul sacrifices at her rallies before long. The base will love it as they clamor for Mccain to step aside and let Sarah be Sarah.

  15. 15
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    If Rachel Maddow had any sense of theater (and let’s be honest, she’s a lesbian so she doesn’t) she’d introduce Pat Buchanan with scary organ music and smoke tendrils floating out of a coffin.

  16. 16
    liberatemeiexinfernis says:

    for me Obama’s slam dunk moment was when he said how McCain voted against SCHIP while McCain was telling the audience how he cares for Americans and wants to make sure they all have affordable healthcare

  17. 17

    I have to admit at some points during the debate, I was saying Barack SUCKS because he will not come out and say for health insurance, single payer is the way to go

    At least he said health care is a right. (McCain said it’s a "responsibility")

  18. 18
    Clutch414 says:

    OT: Radar Online says the Secret Service is looking into the guy who shouted "KILL HIM" at Palin’s recent two minutes hate.

  19. 19
    Comrade Peter J says:

    McCain talked about countries that Americans wouldn’t be able to find on a map. Which obviously made me think about Miss Teen South Carolina.

  20. 20
    JL says:

    McCain’s pacing behind Obama bothered me. At one point I thought that McCain was going to throw a punch. Am I alone with this feeling or did McCain really look like a deranged old man?

  21. 21
    ohollern says:

    Nobody’s mind will be changed. They just showed us what we already know. McCain’s a rusty old ass and Obama is poised and competent. The American Legion will support McCain, Democrats will support Obama, and those of us liberal Obama supporters from the primaries will become increasingly depressed at how conventional Obama’s foreign policies are (and will be after he’s president).

  22. 22
    John Cole says:

    @JL: He IS a deranged old man.

  23. 23
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    Rachel has really been turning me on the last few days. I dunno if it’s her plunging neckline or maybe she’s ovulating or I’m digging the androgynous twink boy look or maybe all three.. gulp.

  24. 24
    Bostondreams says:

    The American Legion will support McCain, Democrats will support Obama,

    This Legionnaire will be Obama, thanks. :)

  25. 25
    erlking says:

    At the risk of losing all my cynicism cred, Obama won the debate for me when he talked about health-care and talked about losing his mother when she was 53. After that, Johnny Drama gimping around the stage was a joke.

    But then, I’m old.

  26. 26
    Laura W says:

    Am I alone with this feeling or did McCain really look like a deranged old man?

    Nope. Keith O just backed you up on that.
    Howard Finemann wouldn’t cop to it on camera, but you know he totally agrees as well.

  27. 27
    DougJ says:

    What a sad, pathetic, small man John McCain has turned into right before our very eyes.

    Not a McCain fan but he wasn’t that bad in this debate. Obama won because the only thing that matters is economic issues and McCain can’t bring himself to say "middle class". But then again, he’s never been a member of the "middle class", so maybe we should applaud him for not trying to fake it.

  28. 28
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    My wife always lolz when McCain mentions his "League of Democracies". She wonders if he’s just borrowing from Woodrow Wilson or getting confused with SuperFriends.

  29. 29
    Dreggas says:

    "That One" combined with the lack of a handshake at the end are once again becoming part of the narrative.

  30. 30
    Perry Como says:

    That One ’08

  31. 31
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    "That One" combined with the lack of a handshake at the end are once again becoming part of the narrative.

    No, he wasn’t avoiding a handshake, he brought Valium over to meet Obama and wanted him to shake her hand.

  32. 32
    DougJ says:

    Sarah Serendipity is twice the man Mccain is.

    Bullshit. She’s a petty, vindictive know-nothing. McCain is a limited man with a bad temper who has run a disgraceful campaign but he also authored McCain-Feingold and the McCain-Kennedy immigration plan. Yes, he’s thumbed his nose at both the past few months. But he’s ten times the public servant that Palin ever will be.

    I’m sorry to have defend McCain here, but some of what’s being written here is very unfair.

  33. 33
    Laura W says:

    That One ‘08

    I love that!
    Can we get bumper stickers made, maybe at Cafe Press? With BJ on them somewhere? And the Obama logo round thingey whatever?

  34. 34
    Alan says:

    The Althousians are claiming Obama cheated. They’re speculating Obama’s shiny ear is actually displaying an earpiece. Losers.

  35. 35
    DonnaInMichigan says:

    When John McCain says "my friends", it gives me the creeps.

    It sounds a bit condescending to me. Like he has to explain things to the little people……..gather round little friends I need to teach you a thing or two. GGGGRRRR.

    I don’t want John McCain as a friend. He is not running for my BFF, he’s running for President of the United States.

  36. 36
    Jess says:

    Rachel has really been turning me on the last few days.

    Experiencing little starbursts, are you?

    I was somewhat impressed by McCain’s performance in the first debate–or at least impressed that he exceeded my low expectations–but this time I was horrified and amused at he descent into a bad parody of himself. It was like watching a SNL skit. Sad.

  37. 37
    Not My Fault says:

    I so wanted Obama to say something like: "No, Russia is not the evil empire. It is thinking like that that got us where we are today. It is leaders who think that they can look into other leaders eyes and see good, or evil, see friend or foe, and are unwilling or unable to function in a world where nations bring a mixture of positive and negative into the world, and have to be evaluated more deeply than "good and "evil" that are the source of much of the strife we see today."

    I also wanted someone to ask McCain if Hamas gets into his league of democracies.

  38. 38
    Dave says:

    After the debate when the talking heads started blathering on, MSNBC showed Obama walking around and shaking every persons hand. Half of the audience was suppose to be GOP/McCain supporters but none of them passed up the chance to talk with Obama. It looked like Obama stopped and talked to those that had questions or want to say more than hello.

    You can’t teach someone to be a class act. Obama Presidential amounts of class and McCain, well, he could learn alot from "That One".

  39. 39
    Tom G says:

    One thing that really has bothered me about the debates is the areas that are apparently off-limits as topics – the war on drugs, and especially the serious erosion of civil liberties since 2001. Many bloggers have spent time discussing the various ways that the Bush administration has taken away our most fundamental liberties. Yet I clearly remember during the Clinton administration, the right wing kept harping on how Janet Reno and President Clinton had taken away Americans’ rights.

    But not a single question thus far about what either candidate would do to restore our lost rights, or about whether they think the loss was justified.

    edit – or about reducing the sheer power of the presidency that Bush and Cheney have engineered.

  40. 40
    Ned R. says:

    Hahah, wow at that rant from Andy McCarthy. Talk about somebody who believes his own press and wonders why nobody else does. (Well, Mark Levin might.)

  41. 41
    Soylent Green says:

    I’m voting for whoever can get me one of them gold-plated Cadillac hair transplants.

  42. 42
    John S. says:

    Best line of the night was when Obama – hitting back on yet another McCain fabrication – said "I think one of the wheels fell off the Straight Talk Express with that one."

    Gold.

  43. 43
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    Experiencing little starbursts, are you?

    Can you get a rash through the teevee?

  44. 44
    Martin says:

    They’re raping McCain on CNN. Even the Republicans aren’t positive. Gergen won’t call the race for Obama because he’s black – that’s the only thing in McCains favor, apparently. I know there’s a shitload of evidence to the contrary, but this country isn’t fucked up enough for Obama to lose a 10 point lead over race.

  45. 45

    Jesus Christ, what a dumbfuck. Red State = Collective of Dumbfucks.

    From Erick Erickson:

    Barack Obama suggests we need to consider moral issues in intervening with combat forces. He mentions intervening in the Holocaust and how we should have done that.

    Um Senator, we did intervene in the Holocaust. It was called World War II.

    I guess you hadn’t heard of that, kind of like you hadn’t heard of Bill Ayers.

    You fucking idiot, that’s not why we joined World War II. We knew the Holocaust was going on long before we intervened, and by the time we "interevened," 6 million Jews were dead. Yeah. Intervening was the entire point of joining WWII.

    What a bunch of fucking idiots.

    Edit: Here’s the link.

  46. 46
    Danton says:

    What came across clearly tonight: McCain is enormously intimidated by Obama.

  47. 47
    Punchy says:

    I thought McCain did just fine. What was wierd was how tight his suit was on his arms. Wicked tight.

    Otherwise, decent job. His pacing behind O on camera during answers was a bit odd…..

  48. 48
    Louise says:

    Can someone tell me to what vote McCain was referring to in the "That one" clip?

    I’m really impressed with the "calm, reasonable," strategy Obama has taken with these debates. I just know he’s driving McCain up the wall. I’m still hoping for a total McCain meltdown at the last debate. I want to encourage him to lose his everlovin’ mind. C’mon, John — if you’re gonna lose, why not go out big?

    Meanwhile, Sarah Palin –at least as a politician — is a poor excuse for a musculoskeletal system. Totally ready to demean and slander Obama, since, y’know, she’s got so much experience and wisdom. What a wretched person.

  49. 49
    Debbie(aussie) says:

    Things are getting really scary. I am so very glad that I live, ‘down under’, on the other side of the planet. Just wish it was a totally different planet.
    From this distance it seems that the gloves have come off completely. No more insinuations, just straight out disgusting hateful statements. I fear that that it may even be violence inducing,.

  50. 50
    John S. says:

    You can’t teach someone to be a class act.

    Which is why at the end, Obama went over to shake McCain’s hand and McCain left him hanging.

  51. 51
    John Cole says:

    @DougJ: McCain’s campaign has earned him every bit of scorn he is getting. Christ- choosing Sarah Palin earned him everything he is getting here.

    Christ, if he won and then died, we would have that moron as President. That alone is enough to bash McCain.

  52. 52
    Brian J says:

    Like I said before, I wonder if McCain’s internals are really bad, like being down by double digits in most swing states. I know it takes more than two days to establish a narrative, but it still seems sort of early to trot out this horseshit. And man, is it more direct than last time, at least as I remember. I don’t think Bush or Cheney ever used the word "terrorist" or one of its equivalents when they ran the last time. They implied it, to be sure, but McCain and Palin seem to be reacting as if they are panicking.

    And yes, McCain does look like a small man right now. Not just because he’s fighting like a bum, not just because he’s accusing his opponent of treason, not just because he gets tripped up over basic questions about broad domestic policy issues, but because he acts like Obama has no right or reason to be up there. He acts like the presidency should be his for some unspecific reason. It’s insulting.

  53. 53
    cain says:

    I don’t know if you guys watched the debate on C-Span, but after the debate was over and the cameras were still rolling, McCain took off and Obama hung around for quite a bit having his photos taken with people and even a large group shot.

    That old fool was so bitter that he took off as soon as he could. Loser.

    cain

  54. 54
    jcricket says:

    I love that the wingnuts are already spinning the "we’re not putting up conservative enough candidates".

    I don’t even have to throw them the anvil, they’re grabbing the weights on their own.

    When they lose big, and they will (Obama president, 55-58 Ds in the Senate, another 15 Ds in the House) – they’re reaction is apparently going to be running Tancredo, Huckabee, etc. Awesome.

    Here’s the sad thing, 2009 and 2010 are going to be sucky years for most Americans. Economy’s going to get worse before it gets better, and we’ve got a huge mess to climb out of already!

    But like the Depression, which took almost 5 years to fully climb out of, there’s a lot of opportunity to continue to pick up electoral gains and improve the country while doing so. January 2009 may not be when we get single-payer or other stuff, but if things shape up the way I expect, we’ll have more than one crack at the nut.

  55. 55
    Ned R. says:

    @cain: Why that just means Obama’s a celebrity. Oh wait they retired that one already.

  56. 56
    Seanly says:

    John ~ you nailed it about McCain.

    His shuffling around the stage was creepy. I kept thinking he should be in pajamas…

  57. 57
    Comrade Warren Terra says:

    WTF is wrong with the McCain campaign, and why are they trying so hard to lose? Two points:

    1) After McCain got slammed got for the omission last time, according to ThinkProgress McCain again didn’t mention "The Middle Class".

    2) I’m watching the commentary on PBS (no cable) and they had Valerie Jarret from the Obama campaign for fifteen minutes, spinning quite competently – and the McCain campaign refused to provide a spokesperson. I know PBS isn’t McCain’s core demographic, but if you want to watch discussion of the debate after it’s over and you don’t have cable, PBS is your only option. The panel is maybe pro-Obama, but not rabidly so, and the McCain rep would have been treated respectfully. The McCain people couldn’t be bothered to almost literally phone this one in.

  58. 58
    Alan says:

    That National Review clip illustrates just how out of touch the Right has become. They actually believe the bullshit they peddle.

  59. 59
    cain says:

    Oh yeah, Obama wore a flag pin, McCain didn’t. Why does McCain hate America?

    cain

  60. 60
    r€nato says:

    McCain totally lost on the health care issue. His proposals sounded like the same half-measures which aren’t doing jack for average Americans.

    The ‘that one’ comment will be repeated endlessly and merely underscores the notion that he’s a ragehead.

    Did anyone buy that ‘calm hand on the tiller’ line that he repeated? Seriously? McCain is ‘calm’?

    McCain rambled in many of his responses. A commenter elsewhere – perhaps here – said something like this after the first debate:

    Remember those styrofoam gliders they had when you were a kid? You lofted it up into the sky, it made a gentle loop and gracefully floated back to you. That’s what a good debater does – he floats an idea out there, lets it soar and then effortlessly brings it back to the main theme. Obama is fantastic at this. McCain couldn’t do it if his life depended on it.

    I watched the debate with this in mind, and damn this anonymous commenter was dead-on. Whatever Obama was riffing on, he eventually brought it back to his main themes. Meanwhile, McCain rambled, he put ideas out there but there was little tying them together.

    Obama – strategist. Playing chess.

    McCain- tactician, lurching from one idea (or crisis) to another with no real idea of where he is going. Playing checkers, just barely.

    I know which one I want ‘with his hand on the rudder’.

  61. 61
    Martin says:

    Holy hell…

    Who expressed his views more clearly in the debate?

    Obama 60
    McCain 30

    Who spent more time attacking his opponent?

    Obama 17
    McCain 63

    Who seemed to be the stronger leader?

    Obama 54
    McCain 43

    Who was most likeable?

    Obama 65
    McCain 28

    That’s brutal.

  62. 62

    I also thought the audience was weird, although on second thought, it also kind of reminded me of lots of places I’ve been… How can anyone be "undecided," anyway? Isn’t that like already disqualifying for things like drivers’ licenses and buying beer??

  63. 63
    ppcli says:

    [Sorry for the repetition – put this in the wrong thread earlier.]
    I thought Obama was much more compelling, but then I would. Mostly, though, I was kind of bored. Didn’t we hear all this in the last debate? Including the bomb,bomb, Iran rejoinder to the "you’re a tyro if you announce you’ll take out Osama in Pakistan" point? Couldn’t we have saved a lot of money (at least one earmark’s worth) just by replaying the tape of the last debate (perhaps on "C-SPAN Classic")?
    .
    One pet peeve – it drove me crazy in the last debate, and it drove me crazy in this one. Obama: next time you are thanking the troops, or next time McCain is going on about how much the veterans love him, PLEASE, press home that McCain has been opposed to the new GI bill. I’ve followed this closely, as my wife is a VA physician (and, as my pseudonym suggests, I have a military connection myself, though admittedly in a distant, exotic land even more foreign than Hawaii). The single, number one peeve that her patients have about McCain (and they have many) is that he yammers on about his connection to veterans, but fights tooth and nail to keep them from getting benefits commensurate with their sacrifices. Jerk.
    .
    Maybe Obama is keeping it in reserve for the last debate, when the shock value will be greater and there won’t be as much time to organize a response. Or maybe he has just decided that it is better to avoid the topic altogether, since it would open up a skirmish on territory that could help McCain. [If Obama were a chess player, he would be Petrosian. He seems to spend twice as much thought in avoiding danger spots as he does in finding ways to press home an attack.] But whatever it is, it drives me crazy. Listen to me, Barack: the GI Bill is your friend! [End rant]

  64. 64
    Comrade Jake says:

    Obama landed a number of haymakers in this one. SCHIP? Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran. The issue with crossing state lines for healthcare, tying it back into deregulation. The list goes on.

    Meanwhile, McCain was frequently incoherent. For Chrissakes, Palin pulls off the mambo-jambo with more fluidity. He sounded and looked out of breath. I absolutely disagree that this debate didn’t change any minds: every senior citizen looked at McCain tonight and thought there’s no way he can keep it up.

    And the "that one" comment is going to kill him. That wasn’t scripted. He wasn’t thinking. By itself, it really doesn’t mean anything, but the problem is that people are going to discuss it, and it doesn’t serve McCain well.

  65. 65
    DougJ says:

    @DougJ: McCain’s campaign has earned him every bit of scorn he is getting. Christ- choosing Sarah Palin earned him everything he is getting here.

    Christ, if he won and then died, we would have that moron as President. That alone is enough to bash McCain.

    Well, you’re right about the Palin pick. I have to concede that point.

    But I still bristle at claims that Palin is more of a man than he is. His greatest sin was picking Palin. By definition, that means she’s worse than he is.

  66. 66
    Comrade The Other Steve says:

    JOHN MCCAIN IS BUYING ME A HOUSE BABY!

  67. 67
    r€nato says:

    I love that the wingnuts are already spinning the "we’re not putting up conservative enough candidates".

    LOLZ I’ve been saying this repeatedly for a year now. They will lose and spend the next several years tearing the GOP to pieces over what kind of candidates they should be running, with the Qaeda insisting that they need to move harder to the right.

    I say they should run with that idea.

  68. 68
    Alan says:

    Years ago Bill Buckley supposedly saved the GOP from going down crackpot alley. Today crackpot alley is where they’ve set up their base camp.

  69. 69
    Seanly says:

    Umm, re: that blockquote from McCarthy… how fucking nuts is he?

    renato ~ that’s a great point. One of the things the Democrats have been great about in their convention speeches and now in these 3 debates has been hitting the same themes. It took us 8 years (at least), but we’ve learned how to be ‘on message’.

  70. 70
    Delia says:

    I wonder if there is something actually physically and/or mentally wrong with McCain. He seems to be just missing things in terms of common appropriate behavior. In the past week Americablog has been posting stuff on his weird facial tics and letters from MDs about the dangerous nature of his last melanoma.

    But so much of what McCain says is just incoherent these days. I just wonder if he’s beginning to lose it.

  71. 71
    Brian J says:

    The panel is maybe pro-Obama, but not rabidly so, and the McCain rep would have been treated respectfully.

    I’ve gotten the impression that a Republican spokesman could punch a PBS host in the face, knocking out a few teeth, and the PBS host would respond by saying, "Sir, I don’t think that’s really necessary."

  72. 72
    Soylent Green says:

    All across America, Republican jaws are hitting the floor over McCain’s buy up the bad mortgages proposal — a big WTF by the commenters at Redstate etc.

  73. 73
    gopher2b says:

    My thoughts (with the caveat that I missed the middle 30 minutes where apparently Obama threw the "he doesn’t understand stic back in McCain’s face):

    I thought McCain (again) won the first 20 and last 20 minutes which in my mind get the most weight. He does a better job of answering questions and responding to the environment. Obama first answer came off like that that cartoon on SNL where the put the voice over to a cartoon and the person is talking without any regard to his context.

    That being said, in my mind, this is like a football team with a 21 point lead giving up a TD because it played the prevent defense. Obama is just running out the clock at this point which is a good strategy.

  74. 74
    jcricket says:

    Yes, CNN and CBS – calling it more solidly for Obama than any of us dare to. Undecideds are clearly breaking massively for Obama in a way that McCain cannot counteract with red meat.

    That National Review clip illustrates just how out of touch the Right has become. They actually believe the bullshit they peddle.

    There’s a comment I read on a blog recently that said, "At some point the right wing stopped having a conversation with Americans and started having one only with themselves".

    I thought it was perfect. There are no issues where the Republicans are on the same side as the American public – and it’s increasingly becoming obvious to all but the crazies.

  75. 75
    Comrade Jake says:

    Fallows:

    Two minutes ago, McCain half-pointing at Obama and calling him, in the third person, that one.
     
    The sense of seeing in real time a gesture that will be regretted for a long time.

    This might be the image he has in mind.

  76. 76
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    What’s up with the Oliver Stone Bush movie? Christ, we’re living the fucking horror right now, why go see it at the movies? How much worse can it get than walking out of the movie and it’s still going in real fucking life.

    The only thing they got right was the Halloween release date.

  77. 77
    Martin says:

    Like I said before, I wonder if McCain’s internals are really bad, like being down by double digits in most swing states. I

    Well, on top of the polling, a strong ground game can be good for up to an additional 5 points. McCain’s is horrible, and they know that. Obama’s is, quite simply, unparalleled. If McCain thinks that any state where he has less than a five point margin is potentially in play for Obama, then not only does he lose every battleground state, but GA, WV, MT, ND could swing for Obama, and LA, MS, SD, TX are tossups and AZ gets dangerously close.

  78. 78
    liberatemeiexinfernis says:

    "I’ll get Osama bin Laden, my friends. I’ll get him. I know how to do it!"

    Did anyone else hear this? doesnt it sound ridiculous coming from McCain? you think if he knew how to get Bin Laden he would have given Commander Codpiece and CIA some tips on catching Bin Laden?

  79. 79
    JL says:

    But so much of what McCain says is just incoherent these days. I just wonder if he’s beginning to lose it.

    Earlier today my son called and mentioned that Repubs would vote for Ernie and Bert if they were running. I told him that I thought he was insulting Ernie and Bert.

  80. 80
    Brian J says:

    did you get the impression that Obama comes from the radical Left? Did you sense that he funded Leftist causes to the tune of tens of millions of dollars? Would you have guessed that he’s pals with a guy who brags about bombing the Pentagon? Would you have guessed that he helped underwrite raging anti-Semites? Would you come away thinking, “Gee, he’s proposing to transfer nearly a trillion dollars of wealth to third-world dictators through the UN”?

    In another edition of simple answers to simple questions, no, I didn’t get any of those impressions. It’s probably because none of those statements are true.

  81. 81
    Stuck in the Fun House says:

    I’m sorry to have defend McCain here, but some of what’s being written here is very unfair.

    Everything that Palin does within the Mccain campaign has his explicit or tacit approval. Every low smear he or his surrogates have made he has sanctioned. For what? To be the POTUS. Every positive thing or nearly so that he has done as a Senator, IE Mccain- Feingold, he has flip flopped on or broken his ideals with his behaviour. And for what? His and only his personal ambition.

    The point I was making is that Palin owns her petty viciousness. And Mccain, who created Palin the wingnut hero VP candidate, and the vile smears we’re seeing, doesn’t own the monster he has created. That’s cowardice in my book. I would have thought more of him if he’d have acted out tonight the Shit-Sling Express his campaign has devolved into. Just in case you were being serious DougJ.

  82. 82

    Harold Ford is just pissed that it’s Obama up there — that was supposed to be him — the post-partisan, bridge-building, telegenic First Black President. He had it all laid out, and along comes this interloper….

    The sour grapes come right through the screen.

  83. 83
    jonnygothispen says:

    After stolen elections in 2000, 2002, 2004, and 20 seats stolen in 2006, I hope Obama has a big enough lead that they can’t steal this one. Hasn’t happened you say? Odd, Bush’s top IT guy confessed to his closest associate that they’ve been stealing elections electronically for 10 years, and that he "may have" helped in his zeal to get Bush elected. Mike Connel is now fighting a September 22, 2008 subpoena since his buddy, Stephen Spoonamore, testified to Connel’s complicity.

    What we’ve known all along is finally coming to light. Good night Irene…

  84. 84
    Laura W says:

    This is probably stating the obvious, but I don’t know that I’ve seen anyone state it, really. Nor had I even noticed it until tonight.
    McCain speaks much like Palin.
    The rambling cadence, choppy, oddly punctuated. Words combined that don’t really combine well, or flow at all.
    Hard to articulate at +4 and way past my bed time, but I’d love to see a side-by-side demonstration of how eerily their speech patterns match up.

  85. 85
    eglenn says:

    That National Review clip illustrates just how out of touch the Right has become. They actually believe the bullshit they peddle.

    Yeah, THIS one was my favorite Corner quote tonight:

    In Defense of McCain [Mark R. Levin]
    While I have several strong disagreements with McCain, he doesn’t flat-out lie the way Obama does.

    All I can figure is the continual exposure to ‘Cornerite’ causes damage to critical facilities. I figure they go through a lot of Depends.

  86. 86
    Joshua says:

    What the hell is that "conservative (nay, American)" comment about? That anyone who doesn’t agree with the Jonah Goldberg right isn’t an American? If I remember correctly even Buckley was running away from these freaks before he died.

    News flash, asshole – Obama IS a center-left guy, more center than many lefties like. And IIRC neither Obama nor McCain said one damn word about illegal immigrants.

  87. 87
    r€nato says:

    There’s a comment I read on a blog recently that said, "At some point the right wing stopped having a conversation with Americans and started having one only with themselves".

    I think that was here…

  88. 88
    DougJ says:

    Fuck it, I’ll all wrong. McCain really is a shithead. From Ben Smith (who has kicked ass recently):

    A Republican official emails, on background:

    The most memorable line of the night belonged to John McCain. McCain pointed out that “That One” vote for the 05 energy bill. Look for Republicans to note in coming days that “That One” also voted for higher taxes at least 94 times; “That One” has associations with unrepentant terrorists, etc…

  89. 89
    Comrade Jake says:

    All across America, Republican jaws are hitting the floor over McCain’s buy up the bad mortgages proposal—a big WTF by the commenters at Redstate etc.

    Esp. because Palin put the emphasis in the VP debate on personal responsibility. Look for the right-wingnuts to increasingly suggest that the GOP ticket is upside-down.

  90. 90
    horatius says:

    Game Over Bitches

  91. 91
    Soylent Green says:

    I wonder if there is something actually physically and/or mentally wrong with McCain.

    1. He is 72 years old.

    2. He’s exhausted after slogging through years of very grueling campaigning.

    3. He is losing badly and he knows it.

    The end result is no surprise, and could happen to anybody.

  92. 92
    Martin says:

    What’s up with the Oliver Stone Bush movie? Christ, we’re living the fucking horror right now, why go see it at the movies? How much worse can it get than walking out of the movie and it’s still going in real fucking life.

    Yeah, I don’t get that one either. It’s like releasing a feature film which conveys all the realism of a prostate exam in a mere 108 minutes.

  93. 93
    SamFromUtah says:

    I love that the wingnuts are already spinning the "we’re not putting up conservative enough candidates".

    That’s exactly how we ended up with the Pathetic Bunch of Pygmies™ as the Republican field this time around. I hope they keep flogging that shit too.

  94. 94
    Comrade Trotsky says:

    A clear win for Obama on both style and substance. You can tell the GOP spinners think they lost the debate by the fact that they are circulating an e-mail to reporters complaining about the debate format (see Mark Ambinder’s blog). But I think the take away moment from the debate will be McCain’s "that one" remark. Unbelievably stupid. I expect the number of people who think McCain "lost" to increase over the next few days as the media chew that over.

  95. 95
    Comrade Jake says:

    Harold Ford is just pissed that it’s Obama up there—that was supposed to be him—the post-partisan, bridge-building, telegenic First Black President. He had it all laid out, and along comes this interloper….

    Let’s be clear: Ford cannot hold Obama’s jock. It’s not even close.

  96. 96
    horatius says:

    The toilet on the Straight Talk Express is badly backed up and is flinging shit everywhere. Somebody tell McLame to clean it up before the Straight Talk Express gets permanently damaged.

  97. 97
    jcricket says:

    Angry old man hobbles around on stage, calls his opponent "that one" and rambles a bunch. Yeah, that’ll work for McCain.

    I think that was here…

    Oops.

  98. 98
    Fulcanelli says:

    @Montysano (All Hail Marx & Lennon): You can tell barry gets a lot of his strength from his relationship with his wife. Clearly this is bad forMcCain. I’d bet there are a lot of bigots flatlining over watching Obama with his wife. Classy, respectful, in love, not what they imagined in their ugly fantasies about black folk.
    /end mushy minute

    Did McCain check out after just a minute or two after the debate was over, while O & M hung out and pressed the flesh?

    McCain must have been in a hurry to get back to the hotel to give Steve Schmidt a caning, with Cindy pouring iodine on the welts.

  99. 99
    John Cole says:

    @DougJ: WTF? They are going to take “that one” and run with it?

    They are dumber than I thought, and I think they are some of the dumbest people on the planet.

  100. 100
    eglenn says:

    Oh, and a report from the field.

    I called Cobb County, GA (Marietta and suburbs of Atlanta) Early Voting today to see what the wait time was and they said 1.5 hours. And since they opened it on September 22nd, the shortest wait time has been 45 minutes.

  101. 101
    Jess says:

    But I still bristle at claims that Palin is more of a man than he is. His greatest sin was picking Palin. By definition, that means she’s worse than he id.

    I think the point was that she has more fight in her, not that she’s better than he is. But of course the stereotype of men having more fight and courage, and women being wimpy cowards is just a wee bit problematic as well. I’ll be very glad to see the day when character traits, especially admirable ones, aren’t categorized by how supposedly manly they are. (hint hint)

  102. 102
    DougJ says:

    Harold Ford is just pissed that it’s Obama up there—that was supposed to be him—the post-partisan, bridge-building, telegenic First Black President. He had it all laid out, and along comes this interloper….

    I fucking hate Harold Ford. What’s he got in common with Obama? Nothing.

  103. 103
    Brian J says:

    I called Cobb County, GA (Marietta and suburbs of Atlanta) Early Voting today to see what the wait time was and they said 1.5 hours. And since they opened it on September 22nd, the shortest wait time has been 45 minutes.

    Obviously, this is good news for McCain.

  104. 104
    DougJ says:

    @DougJ: WTF? They are going to take “that one” and run with it?

    Someone else told me that was bullshit. They’re just trying to take a gaffe and make gaffeade.

  105. 105
    Martin says:

    Did anyone else hear this? doesnt it sound ridiculous coming from McCain? you think if he knew how to get Bin Laden he would have given Commander Codpiece and CIA

    Yeah, I get the same sense. If he knows where he is and how to get him, how different is that from harboring?

  106. 106
    gopher2b says:

    Fuck it, I’ll all wrong. McCain really is a shithead. From Ben Smith (who has kicked ass recently):

    A Republican official emails, on background:

    The most memorable line of the night belonged to John McCain. McCain pointed out that “That One” vote for the 05 energy bill. Look for Republicans to note in coming days that “That One” also voted for higher taxes at least 94 times; “That One” has associations with unrepentant terrorists, etc…

    Epically (spelling) stupid. I thought it was freudian slip up not a strategy. Wow.

    I thought they would try to spin by stating he was referring to Obama as a Senator or politician (as opposed to what it clearly meant – uppity negro) and then never touch it again.

  107. 107
    Comrade Jake says:

    WTF? They are going to take “that one” and run with it?

    Give them a day to let the phrase sink in with the media. They’ll change their minds quickly. It’s not a winner.

    BTW, Sully has the logo up.

  108. 108
    The Thinking Man's Mel Torme says:

    but I seriously can’t be bothered by the "that one" statement

    If my Scots grandmother referred to anyone as "that one," it was only meant with withering derision. She was an IAM shop steward, and given that she was only 5’2" and facing off against company screws twice her size, she had to rely on verbal punches. She would’ve had Gidget in tears.

  109. 109
    Laura W says:

    But so much of what McCain says is just incoherent these days. I just wonder if he’s beginning to lose it.

    I was just yakking about the elections with a woman I met for the first time. She told me her sister is a physician for the elderly….geriantologist???…(sorry, very sleepy now) and that her sister swears he is pre-dementia, or early stages. She watches him on tv and is just amazed that this isn’t more obvious, and of more concern, to the many.
    Other than us, I mean.

  110. 110
    Bubblegum Tate says:

    I love that the wingnuts are already spinning the "we’re not putting up conservative enough candidates".

    My favorite version of this is Mark Noonan’s "even if we lose, we still win because we’ll have the Palin-Jindal ticket in 2012!"

    He’s not kidding.

  111. 111
    Karmakin says:

    It’s not the "That one" words.

    It’s the body language.

    His body language was pure Grima Wormtongue. Slimy doesn’t begin to cover it.

  112. 112
    horatius says:

    Gerontologist.

    Yeah. We should be pushing this message independently from BO’s campaign.

  113. 113
    Joshua says:

    WTF? They are going to take “that one” and run with it?

    This reminds me of that Lee Atwater quote:

    You start out in 1954 by saying, “Nigger, nigger, nigger.” By 1968 you can’t say “nigger”—that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states’ rights and all that stuff. You’re getting so abstract now [that] you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites.

    Seems to me that, if the Republicans actually try to run with "that one", they are going back to 1954.

  114. 114
    Tsulagi says:

    Given ninety minutes to go after Obama like he and his partner and his surrogates have the past few days, and he said nothing.

    Yeah, I was thinking the same thing during the debate since I’d heard all their answers before.

    By day he and Winky trash talk Obama whipping up their vetted Moran Squads into a masturbatory frenzy to where they’re shouting out “terrorist,” “treason,” and “kill him.” But when face to face McCain’s got nothing. Of course, though, tomorrow morning the yin and yang sides of Bush will be back at it flinging shit to the eager shit eaters. Pretty pathetic.

    Definitely not the guy I would have voted for in 2000. Or at least the guy I thought he was. He really did sell out his soul to the Party of Bushy thinking that would later get him the presidency. Ironic thing now is equating him with and to Bush is a big part of why he’s going to lose. Justice.

  115. 115
    Comrade Nixon Hailfire Palin says:

    FWIW, Sully just posted a photo — they did shake hands at the end.

  116. 116
    DougJ says:

    Howard Fineman is an idiot. He’s saying McCain did well on the economy when McCain didn’t even say "middle class".

    It’s just one of those things…you fuck up, you’ve got to say "I’m sorry", you’re in an economic debate, you’ve got to say "middle class."

    I hate to be so simplistic, but Jesus Christ.

  117. 117
    r€nato says:

    wow, the National Review is totally unhinged. They forgot to mention that Obama dines on Michelle’s aborted fetus casserole every evening and afterwards he goes down to the recruiting station to spit on some soldiers and burn American flags with Bill Ayers.

  118. 118
    CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII says:

    John,

    Lay off of DougJ, he’s only trying to defend his monetary circumstances since he’s got a bet with TZ that he is almost obviously going to lose.

    ***

    On the note of why McCain seems to be hellbent on losing the campaign, it’s obvious the reason is because the economy tanked and he has NO CLUE what to do to fix it.

    McCain wanted to get into the White House for the perks, plain and simple, but with this financial crisis, the perks aren’t going to make the presidency anywhere near the Disney ride he was hoping it would be. He doesn’t really want it if it’s going to be so much work.

  119. 119
    Liberaltarian says:

    Sorry if someone already got here, but in response to what John posted the Cornerites freaking out about: Obama is not a far-left liberal.

    No fucking shit Sherlock. He’s a Democrat, but even so, he leans right fiscally, and even a little socially. He’s no Kucinich. Jeebus Xist on a fucking cracker–where have all the Republicans with brains gone? You REALLY want to hand to country over to Palin and her ilk? Remember Spain and the Inquisition?

    Hell yeah Obama is going to win, and the Cornerites will be thanking their lucky stars. Sure, their ideology failed and the country turned against them, but someone else will stop the slide and they can go back to their ludicrous assertions about how Democrats are wrecking everything (because there is no longer glaring proof that their ideology is a fucking joke).

    I might enjoy their return to gadfly-ism if I didn’t hate them so fucking much and want them to pickle in their own piss.

  120. 120
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    So Obama comes off as just your average Center-Left politician. Gonna raise your taxes a little, gonna negotiate reasonably with America’s enemies; gonna rely on our very talented federal courts to fight terrorists and solve most of America’s problems; gonna legalize millions of hard-working illegal immigrants.

    Wow, the cornerites make Obama sound like the right choice. Why are they supporting McCain again?

  121. 121

    Howard Fineman just called McCain "an old guy."

  122. 122

    They are going to take “that one” and run with it?

    My first thought was, that’s how an old person refers to their grandchild. "That one spilled apple juice on the kitchen floor. I have to take this one to get her ear infection looked at."

    Did McCain check out after just a minute or two after the debate was over, while O & M hung out and pressed the flesh?

    Yep. And it’s getting noticed, too.

  123. 123
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    Fineman, Matthews and Simon are killing on McCain. lolz

  124. 124
    skippy says:

    see, the thing is, obama isn’t all those things, and mccain doesn’t think he is all those things

    but the hardly-ever-right wingers luv that crap. because they are obsessed w/bill ayers, who, as far as i know, was never even brought to trial, let alone convicted of anything.

    they luv to make sh*t up and obsess about it. as if reality wasn’t bothersome enough, they have to get ulcers over fantasies.

  125. 125
    Comrade Trotsky says:

    I doubt very seriously if the Rethuglicans are going to take the "that one" line and run with it. It was a gaffe. They’re simply trying to spin. After the media chew it over for a few days they’ll change their minds. But the Ayers-Wright assault will intensify.

  126. 126
    Limniade says:

    Maybe McCain’s "That One" will become his Dean moment, the one sound bite that gets repeated and focused on so often in the press, that it completely deflates his credibility and viability as a candidate.

  127. 127
    Brian J says:

    Seems to me that, if the Republicans actually try to run with "that one", they are going back to 1954.

    I don’t think there was any racial angle to it, at least not one that was obvious. I think it was just a general disrespectful middle-finger-style gesture in Obama’s direction.

  128. 128
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    I doubt very seriously if the Rethuglicans are going to take the "that one" line and run with it. It was a gaffe. They’re simply trying to spin.

    No doubt they’ll issue a non-apology apology tomorrow and insist Obama is "one of the good ones".

  129. 129

    gonna rely on our very talented federal courts to fight terrorists and solve most of America’s problems

    WTF does that mean? Do they know that it would be President Gore if not for the federal courts?

  130. 130
    John Cole says:

    but the hardly-ever-right wingers luv that crap. because they are obsessed w/bill ayers, who, as far as i know, was never even brought to trial, let alone convicted of anything.

    The reason he was never charged was because of fucking COINTELPRO. Yes. Thirty years ago, due to actions of another Republican administration, another terrorist went free because of illegal surveillance and other bullshit.

  131. 131
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    Maybe McCain’s "That One" will become his Dean moment, the one sound bite that gets repeated and focused on so often in the press, that it completely deflates his credibility and viability as a candidate.

    Is that the way the press operates in your country? They go after Republicans? It seems weird but like it could be a really cool thing.

  132. 132
    ThymeZone says:

    Howard Fineman is an idiot.

    Why yes, yes he is. Total, complete, world class.

  133. 133
    Brian J says:

    The reason he was never charged was because of fucking COINTELPRO

    I was told it was because of Obama’s failure to see the Shining, Beautiful Success of the Surge, or his refusal to do ten town hall forums, or because he wanted to abort a bunch of fetuses after he taxed them into oblivion…or something.

  134. 134
    Fulcanelli says:

    McCain’s brain has gotta be ready to detonate like an old land mine. His military career he spent like a spoiled prick milking the mojo from his last name, then he spent 5+years in the HH for his trouble.

    His first political idol, Goldwater, wouldn’t wipe his ass with him, then Cindy’s father’s dough bought his congressional seat around the time his second idols, Saint and Nancy Reagan kicked him to the curb for how he treated the wife that waited for him.

    He gets into the Senate only to be nabbed as a political he-hoe with Keating. His ‘mavericky-ness’ earns him a red-headed stepchild’s mojo with his party. He get’s punk’d by Rove and Bush in 2000, only to wind up a bitter old fuck on a fool’s errand in 2008 getting an ass-whuppin’ in front of the whole country by a black man.

    Karma’s a motherfucker, Johnny…

    Take it out on Sarah, it’ll do you a world of good.

  135. 135
    DrDave says:

    With due respect, I think tonight was a disaster for our side. I’m dumbfounded that no one else seems to think so. Obama did everything he needed to do, McCain did nothing he needed to do. What am I missing?

    What am I missing? You’re missing the fact that after 8 years of Republican control of the White House and 12 years of Republican control of Congress, America came to the realization that for all their blather, Republicans can’t govern. So the Democrats get a chance.

    Certainly not a guarantee that the Dems will do better–and they will inherit a Superfund Site’s worth of problems to begin with–but God knows they could hardly do worse.

  136. 136
    Perry Como says:

    @Davis X. Machina:

    Harold Ford isn’t up there because he’s a fucking douche.

  137. 137

    Is that the way the press operates in your country? They go after Republicans? It seems weird but like it could be a really cool thing.

    Every once in a while the press criticizes a Republican for something absolutely unimportnat. Like in 1992 when George H. Bush looked at his watch to see if Clinton was speaking longer than his allotted time (he was) and the press made it out to be like he didn’t want to be there.

    This could be McCain’s "look at his watch" moment.

  138. 138
    CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII says:

    Karma’s a motherfucker, Johnny…

    He really has lived the life of the Biblical Cain (a wanderer you shall be)… but let’s face it, at least he’s got his best friends Joe Lieberman, Phil Gramm, Rudy Guiliani and Lindsay Graham.

  139. 139
    Fulcanelli says:

    While you’re on the Biblical references…

    Joe Lieberman, Phil Gramm, Rudy Guiliani and Lindsay Graham.

    The Four Horses’ Asses of the Apocalypse

  140. 140
    Conservatively Liberal says:

    What’s up with the Oliver Stone Bush movie? Christ, we’re living the fucking horror right now, why go see it at the movies? How much worse can it get than walking out of the movie and it’s still going in real fucking life.

    Yeah, I don’t get that one either. It’s like releasing watching a feature film during a prostrate exam which conveys all the realism of a prostate exam in a mere 108 minutes and when it is over you realize that the prostrate exam isn’t.

    Fixed.

  141. 141
    kilo says:

    @ppcli:

    Totally OT, but props to the Princess Pat’s!

  142. 142
    Johnny Pez says:

    That’s President Terrorist Sympathizer to you, buster!

  143. 143
    Jim says:

    The Cornerite quote John posted is from Andy McCarthy, who is beyond all hope of cure mentally ill. He is the meanest, most loathsome member of that sad pathetic crowd (he is the looney mean to K’Lo’s looney goofiness). What is truly ironic is that Bill Clinton appointed that guy as Assistant US Attorney.

  144. 144
    Comrade This One says:

    "That one" is the most articulate thing McCain has said in the whole campaign. Both concise and precise, emotionally unambiguous, intellectually incontestable, and as lucid as he’s been since his leisurely stroll through that Baghdad marketplace.

  145. 145
    jcricket says:

    No fucking shit Sherlock. He’s a Democrat, but even so, he leans right fiscally, and even a little socially. He’s no Kucinich

    Fuck. Kucinich is no liberal either. In France he’d be hanging with Sarkozy.

    We’ve got such a fucked up notion of "left" and "right" because the wingnuts have a blackhole on the right, sucking the center to where Pat Buchanan hangs out.

    Seriously. The conservative in France is now talking about economic stimulus through government spending (because of their credit related crisis). Even at his most "fiscally conservative" he was talking about reducing the benefits of the transit union to the same level of benefits as other government workers.

    Our political system is a fucking shit-hole, and yes, I blame Republicans and Libertarians for poisoning the debate with their wedge politics, culture war bullshit and dog-whistle crap.

    If there were an honest opposition party, I’d say we need two parties, but there isn’t. I see no evidence that a big-tent Democratic party can’t have its own debates and get shit done without having to cow-tow to the racists, xenophobes, no-nothings and government haters that oppose them now.

  146. 146
    jcricket says:

    My closing thought is that Obama came into this debate ahead, and with momentum. He crushed McCain in everything, based on the polls of the people who watched the debates.

    So McCain scores no knock out blows, fails to arrest his slide, and Obama improves his standing.

    This is a multiplier for Obama because he not only won people over again this night, but it adds fuel to the narrative that’s already in play.

    Don’t forget, this will also cause Palin and McCain to ratchet the sleaze level up to infinity. Fine. Go out having destroyed your party this election, next election, and for everyone who might ever think Republicans stand for anything real (if anyone is left).

    Couldn’t happen to a better bunch of fucktards.

  147. 147

    You’d think the 04 election never happened to listen to people talk about the sleaze destroying the (R)s. The economy may do that, but not their sleaze. If you think this is rough stuff, you don’t read history. I don’t like it, but it isn’t exceptional.

    I don’t like assholes and Sarah and John are assholes. I don’t like liars and they’re liars. Other than their incompetence, they’re not unusual.

  148. 148
    jenniebee says:

    If there were an honest opposition party, I’d say we need two parties, but there isn’t. I see no evidence that a big-tent Democratic party can’t have its own debates and get shit done without having to cow-tow to the racists, xenophobes, no-nothings and government haters that oppose them now.

    What’s worse, the DLC is convinced that the reason the Republicans are no longer in ascendancy is because they were held captive to the far right and not able to operate in what we call the middle. So the lesson the DLC takes away from that is to tell progressives to take a hike.

  149. 149

    Nope. McCain didn’t want to go there. So Obama comes off as just your average Center-Left politician. Gonna raise your taxes a little, gonna negotiate reasonably with America’s enemies; gonna rely on our very talented federal courts to fight terrorists and solve most of America’s problems; gonna legalize millions of hard-working illegal immigrants.

    Jeez, by the way Andy McCarthy describes Barack’s Amerika, it really doesn’t sound all that bad.

    *I’ll pay more tax — if it’s used prudently (hell, my taxes went up under W, if you count state income and sales taxes, local property tax, and fees/surcharges for state services.

    *Negotiating with our enemies from a position of strength — hell, that’s positively Reagan-esque!

    *Rely on the courts to fight terrorists? Yes, it’s time we treated it as a matter of criminal justice. I mean, could it turn out worse than our military responses have?

    *Legalize hard-working immigrants? A few more years of Bush/McCain (sorry for the political buzzphrase), and we’ll all be going overseas or south of the border to find work anyhow…

    McCain simply didn’t want to embarrass himself by repeating his campaign’s slurs in a formal, very public forum. It was an act of cowardice that only the Right can fully understand. Reminds me of the crowd’s reaction in Escape from New York, when Snake Plissken puts a spiked club through his gargantuan opponent’s head. The crowd falls silent, unsure of what to think or do.

  150. 150
    Phoebe says:

    Palin is much better at the mean shit because she’s stupid, not because she’s "brave" or "manly" – unless you mean manly in the sense of dumb. She can go out there knowing nothing at all, say her zingers again and again without wincing or getting bored, because she’s an idiot. She doesn’t know how thuggy she appears because to her, thuggy is a good thing, as is proven by all the cheering thugs.

    McCain does know better, and is not enjoying the dirty work. He can’t hide his anger at Obama, but I just think he is so emotionally immature that he has to demonize everyone who runs against him. It made no sense for him to pick Palin over Huckabee, who is just as down with the God Squad but has way more exec experience and is clearly not a moron. I think McCain needed to pick someone he hadn’t run against, because of the hatred problem.

    So McCain is in one way worse than Palin, because he does know better, but he still does this, not just because he’s desperate to win [the stump speeches and ads are deliberate], but because he can’t help but leak that anger out in person, even though he has to know that people don’t respond well to it. Which Obama totally knows, and takes advantage of. Obama makes a big show of greeting McCain on the Senate floor because he KNOWS that Crabbypants cannot look him in the eye, and that cameras are watching. I think McCain left early because he was embarassed by his lack of control, and had to just get the hell out.

  151. 151
    RALPH says:

    IT IS CLEAR NOW THE DEFEATOCRAT PARTY HAS BECOME THE HAVEN OF TERRORISTS!!!!!!

    A Connemara [“FLNTARBBHAR ISHNNUTMRWQS DRUIMTSSH!!!!”] woman now looks certain to be elected a Senator in the State of Maine in America in November.

    There are predictions that Margaret Craven [BWAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!] whose maiden name is Connolly – from [LIBTARD] in Carna will easily win a seat for the Democrats in the 35 seat State Parliament.

    It’s understood she would be the only Irish born State Senator in the United States.

    THIS MINISTRY HAS BEEN FEARLESSLY AND CONSISTENTLY EXPOSING THE MACHINATIONS OF GURU MAGGOTS, IN NEW YORK, IN SARAH PALIN’S OWN ALASKA, AND NOW MAINE!!!!!! TERROR CELLS ACROSS AMERICA!!!!!

    JUST AS SARAH PALIN HAS BEEN EXPOSING THE DEMLIB LOVE AFFAIR WITH WEATHERMAN TERRORIST BILL AYRES, THE GOP MUST NOW EXPOSE THE DEMLIB/GURU MAGGOT CONNECTION!!!!!

    MAINE NEEDS TO BE TOUCHED BY THE POWER OF THE GREAT DEBORAH ANOININTING!!!!

    YES!!!! YES!!!!!! YES!!!!!!!

    MAINE MUST JOIN THE REST OF AMERICA IN REJECTING FENIANISM, DESPOTISM, FIANNA FAIL, ALCOHOLISM, SUPERSTITION, THE AOH, BIGOTRY, IDOLATRY, THE WOLFE TONES, IGNORANCE, GURU MAGGOTS, PATTERNS, GLUE-SNIFFING, ENYA (NEW AGE), INCEST, THE INQUISTION, BUCKFAST, JESUITS, DOMESTIC ABUSE, TERRORISM AND THE MASS!!!!!

    WE NEED A SOUL-WINNING, MOUNTAIN-MOVING, DEVIL-KICKING, PIAPS-DEFEATING, AMERICA-STRENGTHENING, RAPTURE-READY REVIVAL ACROSS THE LAND!!!!!

    GET THEM READY FOR THE COMING RAPTURE!!!!!!!

    RAPTURE!!!!!!! RAPTURE!!!!!!! RAPTURE!!!!!!!

    FUCK YOU, PIAPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    BWAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

  152. 152
    r€nato says:

    Hey Ralph, could you translate that into English for us? Here we don’t speak allcapsish.

  153. 153
    displaced says:

    Ralph, I want a hit of whatever you’re smoking. Must be good stuff.

  154. 154
    RALPH says:

    YOU SHOULD REALLY CONCERN YOURSELVE WITH ASSURING THAT YOU WON’T BE LEFT BEHIND TO SPEND THE REST OF YOUR LIBTARD LIFE…AND ALL OF ETERNITY…WITH PIAPS!!!!!

    http://americaphile.blogspot.c.....after.html

  155. 155
    Plisko says:

    If Rachel Maddow had any sense of theater (and let’s be honest, she’s a lesbian so she doesn’t)

    OMG.

    Have you ever BEEN back stage at a theater? Have you ever met theater people? You’ve got a rude awakening ahead of you if you haven’t.

    Maybe you were joking. . . in which case it’s pretty funny.. . as is your idea.

  156. 156
    Plisko says:

    IT IS CLEAR NOW THE DEFEATOCRAT PARTY HAS BECOME THE HAVEN OF TERRORISTS

    Actually they are in the pocket of big space aliens who have turned half the population into robots in order to create a liberal society that creates pools of bile in the nutjob conservative brain. They then sneak into their trailer parks in the middle of the night and extract that bile like sneaky space alien dairy farmers.

    Only in the end times when the giant kuala bear climbs out of the volcano will the world be made right again.

  157. 157

    […] no, he won’t bring it up to your face. As I noted Tuesday after the debate, it really does appear that behind all his bluster and tough guy talk and promises to hunt down bin […]

  158. 158

    […] am glad higher profile bloggers are beginning to recognize what I have been saying for days. John McCain is a […]

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