Debate Thread #2

We were approaching comment 160 when we get the black screen of death. New thread.

10:05 pm- We got our first “Obama doesn’t understand” and Obama rammed it back into his face.

10:17 pm- I know I am horribly partisan, but McCain looks like he is really tanking.

Jesus christ, the fucking surge again. Does McCain honestly think tribal Afghanistan is exactly the same as the center of Baghdad? Is he that fucking stupid? I need to get me some surge to help get me back in shape.

10:24 pm- Israel. McCain dodged the question. I betcha Obama points out that Iran is stronger in part because of McCain’s bad judgment with Iraq.

10:29 pm- The RNC excuse making begins:

The RNC sends around reporter’s e-mail criticizing the debate format. As in — this is not a REAL town hall meeting, so if McCain’s not doing as well as he should be doing, it’s not his fault.

10:31 pm- Talking about his background and being raised by his mom and the American dream is very powerful.

And that is over. Obama killed him.






63 replies
  1. 1
    Montysano (All Hail Marx & Lennon) says:

    Thanks to Brokaw, McCain’s balls must feel all tingly and warm.

  2. 2
    Cris says:

    I love when McCain gets petulant. "If he gets a follow-up, so do I!!"

  3. 3
    Perry Como says:

    Obama is peeking around your corners!

  4. 4
    Товарищ НеинтереснаяСобака says:

    Ya know, we’re up to 200 comments in the last thread, and I’m not seeing a whiff of deathly black wall. Fixt?

  5. 5
    Conservatively Liberal says:

    OT:

    Blood red font across all Asian & Australian markets that are open, 3.5 to 5.1% down.

    I have popped in to spot check the CNN meter and McCain is not faring well when he thinks he is delivering blows against Obama.

  6. 6
    CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII says:

    Would someone explain to me how McCain got a reputation as strong in a "town hall" setting?

    Only McCain thinks he’s strong in this format. Of course McCain seems to be clueless about just about everything.

    I hope he goes to sleep like a baby tonight thinking he did such a wonderful job while the polls sink all around him.

  7. 7
    Tsulagi says:

    I thought Palin’s wrinkly dude mascot was supposed to be singing bomb, bomb, bomb…bomb, bomb Obama getting ready for this townhall. Ready to rumble and all that. Come out swinging at the bell. Instead, this thing is a snoozer.

  8. 8
    Delia says:

    I think McPOW’s townhalls are all setups filled with his own supporters who cheer like idiots at everything he says and ask fawning, stupid questions. This is something different.

  9. 9
    lost in GA says:

    Is he that fucking stupid?

    yes. oh, and Obama used the term "cost benefit analysis" which will likely cause McCain’s Dramabot 3000 to explode. Great blog, by the way . . .

  10. 10
    CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII says:

    McCain is contesting New Hampshire, right, in his dreams. LMAO!

  11. 11
    Ty Lookwell says:

    Wow, Obama is drinking too much CFR koolaid for his Russian policy positions. I don’t like it at all. (McCain’s stance OTOH is insane)

  12. 12
    Punchy says:

    I’m just amazed that Brokaw can ask questions with so much cock in his pie-hole.

  13. 13
    lost in GA says:

    Paraphrasing John:

    We will be dealing with countries that most American’s can’t find on a map

    Does he really want to go there with Bible Spice spouting his worldview? Simple question.

  14. 14
    CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII says:

    TZ emailed me and said he was almost falling asleep. I’m not sure he made it through.

    I was yawning quite a bit myself.

  15. 15
    Pooh says:

    Last 10 minutes were the best for McCain – the moment with the Ex navy dude and his closing statement.

  16. 16
    handy says:

    @Ty Lookwell:

    For once I hope the RW meme about Obama’s vote-getting empty rhetoric is right, at least this time.

    Oh, and big surprise! McSame campaign puts a new $300 billion plan out to the press after the debate.

  17. 17
    CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII says:

    Jeffery Toobin just brought up the "That One" comment and how memorable that will be.

    I wonder how many points that comment is going to shave off of McCain’s numbers.

  18. 18
    Cris says:

    I have to give McCain credit for spelling out exactly why Brokaw’s "Yes or No" question was bullshit. Talk about your gotcha journalism.

    Is Russia an evil empire? What the fuck do you think I’m going to say? Both candidates gave nuanced answers, but McCain explained why neither "yes" nor "no" is acceptable.

  19. 19
    Comrade Jake says:

    Well, I thought the last debate was a draw, with McCain getting a slight edge. This time, I think Obama cleaned his clock. He was just much more clear. McCain was not well served by the format – he looks way too much like a stiff old man who needs oxygen. Oxygen!

    Sully seems to agree.

    This was, I think, a mauling: a devastating and possibly electorally fatal debate for McCain. Even on Russia, he sounded a little out of it. I’ve watched a lot of debates and participated in many. I love debate and was trained as a boy in the British system to be a debater. I debated dozens of times at Oxofrd. All I can say is that, simply on terms of substance, clarity, empathy, style and authority, this has not just been an Obama victory. It has been a wipe-out.It has been about as big a wipe-out as I can remember in a presidential debate. It reminds me of the 1992 Clinton-Perot-Bush debate. I don’t really see how the McCain campaign survives this.

  20. 20
    Martin says:

    Obama crushed him. It was a boring debate, overall, but McCain really did poorly.

    McCain has insulated himself from the public so much that he has no clue where the pulse of the public is. Failure in Iraq is a huge hangup for him that almost nobody cares about. He keeps talking about things that pretty much only he cares about.

    My pet peeve with Obama is that he won’t answer the budget cuts question. He evades some other questions as well – some wisely, like Israel, and some not so much. The public knows something needs to be cut, so he might as well tell us and get it over with.

    My prediction next debate, Obama kicks the shit out of McCain on a few items when it’s too late for McCain to build a response. One will be McCain shilling for invading Iraq a few days after 9/11 – tying Saddam to Bin Laden. That’ll be part of the response to the judgement question.

  21. 21
    DFD says:

    I’m still blown away by McCain’s childish refusal to shake Obama’s hand.

  22. 22

    Bingo! Maddow just nailed it. Barack Obama acted as if John McCain was there. Actually, my impression was the he acted like McCain was a nuisance rather than an opponent. Good play on Obama’s part.

  23. 23
    Brian J says:

    "I don’t think that’s necessarily bourne out by the record." That was David Gregory in response to McCain’s claim that Obama has had five or six different tax plans. Hey, Greg, my friend, why not, you know, consult some of the fucking people where you work? Maybe some spry, industrious intern could help you figure it out. Asshole

    Also, some insightful comments from Kevin Drum:

    9:18 – American workers are the best exporters and the best importers in the world? What is McCain talking about?

    9:21 – Isn’t Bill Ayers really the source of all our economic woes? Why hasn’t McCain pointed that out yet?

  24. 24
    Perry Como says:

    I think it was mavericky to not shake Obama’s hand.

  25. 25
    Foxhunter says:

    I’m preparing for the Tsunami of Shit that is about to begin in earnest. That is all he has left. McCain just looked like a yammering clown in what is alleged to be his strongest format. He just can’t combat the coolness of Obama’s temperament. Not even close…

  26. 26
    Elroy's Lunch says:

    Game. Set. Match. Obama.

    And in the future someone should tell Gramps to just sit down and stop wandering across the stage to kiss Brokaw’s ass.

  27. 27

    We will be dealing with countries that most American’s can’t find on a map

    Why, some Americans are so stupid they think Afghanistan is our neighbor!

  28. 28
    Laura W says:

    he looks way too much like a stiff old man who needs oxygen. Oxygen!

    Word.
    I said this earlier but at one point all I could hear was the gasping inhale in between his staggered words. Paddles, STAT!
    I think the "that one" quip will be the "can’t look him in the eye" of the first debate.
    Uh oh. Norah and the PA undecided meter game.
    60/40 Obama.
    Shock.

  29. 29
    Brian J says:

    I’m still blown away by McCain’s childish refusal to shake Obama’s hand.

    I didn’t catch that, but Anderson Cooper said that he detected contempt for Obama from McCain. Maybe it’s becoming a narrative.

    Regardless, what killed me was McCain interrupting, "If he gets extra time, I want some, too!" Are you kidding me? Way to look like a chump, McCain.

  30. 30
    Martin says:

    McCain explained why neither "yes" nor "no" is acceptable.

    Yeah, that was a strong move on his part. Beyond that…

  31. 31

    Obama crushed McCain on health care. He told the story we all understand. McCain said that the problem was the people couldn’t get hair transplants on the private market. First, name me an insurance plan that covers hair transplants. Second it’s serious illnesses, not hair transplants, which are the problem. I have Crohn’s. I know I couldn’t find any insurance on the private market. Apparently, John McCain thinks my medical treatment–the stuff that happened to keep me alive at the age of 25, and made me last to 29–is a "luxury." Please, Senator.

  32. 32
    SpotWeld says:

    Watch how this plays out on the winger blogs.
    1) Obama doesn’t have the right to talk about the "American Dream since … "he really isn’t American"

    2) McCain didn’t shakes hands because…. He was injured as a POW, in case you didn’t know.

  33. 33

    PS–It’s funny that McCain’s people are whining about the format. They wanted ten of these things. They got one, and they think the format is the problem?

  34. 34
    Brian J says:

    I don’t think Obama did particularly well, if only because he didn’t come across as clear as he could. That said, he did fine in the sense that he didn’t screw up. He didn’t allow McCain to land any huge punches. He didn’t give McCain any chances to really change the momentum of the debate. So, basically, he won, if only by default.

    McCain…oh, who cares? When he wasn’t rambling, he was childish. When he wasn’t pretending to be something he isn’t, he came across like the loser in a bar trying to hit on all the women but being rejected. He didn’t do anything shockingly awful, but he didn’t do anything to really knock Obama off his course. So, whatever.

  35. 35
    JGabriel says:

    Jesus Christ, the fucking surge again. Does McCain honestly think tribal Afghanistan is exactly the same as the center of Baghdad?

    Even more idiotic is McCain’s description of the surge shows that it can’t work in Afghanistan.

    McCain describes it as a "go in, clear, and hold" strategy. Ok, how do you clear and hold the the safe havens in Pakistan, especially since you’ve already ruled out crossing their border?

    .

  36. 36
    Reed says:

    Regarding the "surge" question/issue, I’ve been wondering why Obama hasn’t mentioned/quoted the recent report (by a government agency I can’t name at the moment) that the real reason for the downturn in Baghdad violence was due to (more or less) sectarian cleansing of neighborhoods that chased one of the factions (Sunni, IIRC) out before the surge began. So promoters of the surge are taking credit where credit is questionable.

    Does anyone else remember that report?

    … Reed

  37. 37

    Jesus Christ, the fucking surge again.

    Ah, the great and wonderful surge, that bought us time for the political reconciliation in Iraq that has guaranteed peace and–

    what?

  38. 38
    Patrick says:

    Internet polls need to be taken with huge grains of salt, but when they are 90-10, that is amazing.

    http://www.polls.newsvine.com/.....ial-debate

  39. 39
    Conservatively Liberal says:

    OT: Prayer at a Palin rally today:

    “Father, you said the truth will set us free. We know the truth is out there, and the truth is that the other side is lying, unbelievably lying. … God, we ask you to close their mouths.”

    This is why I dislike religion as much as I do.

  40. 40
    JonChicago says:

    i think McCain gave SNL a lot to work with. The demanding more time. The quip about "we did not hear how much the fine was going to be." I thought it was McCain trying to be too cute. Too tricky. It’s like he does not understand the seriousness of the times. Perhaps Dana Carvey can come out of retirement to play McCain. Carvey v. Fey. That would be a classic.

  41. 41
    Andrew says:

    What? There was a debate?

  42. 42
    JHinAZ says:

    Well, my friends, I sincerely hope, my friends, that you weren’t involved in a drinking game, my friends, involving the phrase "my friends", because you are probably either at the ER in a coma, my friends, or DOA, my friends. I could only last to 1:15 into the debate, my friends, before I had to turn the fucking TV off, my friends. God help us, my friends!

  43. 43
    Martin says:

    Snap poll on CNN is killing McCain.

    Obama won by 25 points. Obama favorables up, unfavorables down, McCain unchanged. Next states blue: Montana, West Virginia, Georgia.

    This is going to be a fucking rout. I’m going to need to take the first week in November off just to recover from the hangover.

  44. 44
    lost in GA says:

    @lost in GA:
    Edit: punctuation malfunction

    Still learning this commenting stuff . . . jeez I feel like a geezer

  45. 45
    CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII says:

    CNN’s Debate Watchers poll numbers show ABSOLUTELY NO MOVEMENT for McCain at all.

    Obama gained 4 points in the poll.

    Hahahahahahahahaha!

    By the way, the Black Screen of Death just showed up on the previous thread where I accidentally posted the above, on comment #216 (but I still had enough visibility to post again, as the submit comment area was not covered – quite a bit of improvement there, I think. :)

  46. 46
    Eural Joiner says:

    Here’s my take: McCain was supposed to be favored by the format but really what it did was overly emphasize his old coot mannerisms compared to Obama. In the first debate you had static speaking from behind podiums. Letting McCain hobble around like a drunken geriatric just emphisized Obama’s "presidential" demenor all the more.

    And the CNN meter confirmed it – no one was overly excited about McCain they were looking for a reason to vote for Obama and they got it.

    The election is over.

  47. 47
    Brian J says:

    This is going to be a fucking rout. I’m going to need to take the first week in November off just to recover from the hangover.

    From your mouth to God’s ears…

  48. 48
    CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII says:

    “Father, you said the truth will set us free. We know the truth is out there, and the truth is that the other side is lying, unbelievably lying. … God, we ask you to close their mouths.”

    God will get them for that.

  49. 49
    Delia says:

    Ah, the great and wonderful surge, that bought us time for the political reconciliation in Iraq that has guaranteed peace and—
    what?

    The Surge, you say? Victory in Iraq? Um, there’s a new NIE coming along that needs to be suppressed, since it says that everything is likely to go kablooie again. Here’s the intro.

    A nearly completed high-level U.S. intelligence analysis warns that unresolved ethnic and sectarian tensions in Iraq could unleash a new wave of violence, potentially reversing the major security and political gains achieved over the last year.

  50. 50
    Comrade Peter J says:

    I didn’t catch that, but Anderson Cooper said that he detected contempt for Obama from McCain. Maybe it’s becoming a narrative.

    Wolf Blitzer is saying that McCain has some distain for Obama, it’s in the handshake video.

  51. 51
    Comrade Jake says:

    Ezra Klein on the Pakistan issue:

    Meanwhile, a targeted strike to kill an international fugitive is not attacking Pakistan. Pakistan is a country. Bin Laden is a person. If there’s a bar fight in Los Angeles, the guy who threw the first punch didn’t attack California.

    Awesome.

  52. 52
    ppcli says:

    I thought Obama was much more compelling, but then I would. Mostly, though, I was kind of bored. Didn’t we hear all this in the last debate? Including the bomb,bomb, Iran rejoinder to the "you’re a tyro if you announce you’ll take out Osama in Pakistan" point? Couldn’t we have saved a lot of money (at least one earmark’s worth) just by replaying the tape of the last debate (perhaps on "C-SPAN Classic")?
    .
    One pet peeve – it drove me crazy in the last debate, and it drove me crazy in this one. Obama: next time you are thanking the troops, or next time McCain is going on about how much the veterans love him, PLEASE, press home that McCain has been opposed to the new GI bill. I’ve followed this closely, as my wife is a VA physician (and, as my pseudonym suggests, I have a military connection myself, though admittedly in a distant, exotic land even more foreign than Hawaii). The single, number one peeve that her patients have about McCain (and they have many) is that he yammers on about his connection to veterans, but fights tooth and nail to keep them from getting benefits commensurate with their sacrifices. Jerk.
    .
    Maybe Obama is keeping it in reserve for the last debate, when the shock value will be greater. Or maybe he has just decided that it is better to avoid the topic altogether, since it would open up a skirmish on territory that could help McCain. [If Obama were a chess player, he would be Petrosian. He seems to spend twice as much thought in avoiding danger spots as he does in finding ways to press home an attack.] But whatever it is, it drives me crazy. Listen to me, Barack: the GI Bill is your friend! [End rant]

  53. 53
    JWeidner says:

    Just thought I’d throw in a couple observations:

    1. My dad came over to watch the debates with us. He’s been a pretty consistent Republican voter, although he’s seemed pretty undecided this time. McCain literally put my dad to sleep.

    2. "My friends". For some reason, every time McCain said that, and it was a lot, I cringed inside. It sounded phony. It sounded condescending. I hated it.

    3. McCain had a really bad habit of ending a lot of sentences using an upturned tone of voice and a kind of faux loud-whisper. Basically, at one point in the debate, I turned to my wife and my dad and said "His manner of speech makes me think of Dana Carvey doing his George Bush impression on Saturday Night Live."

  54. 54
    Brian J says:

    The Surge, you say? Victory in Iraq? Um, there’s a new NIE coming along that needs to be suppressed, since it says that everything is likely to go kablooie again. Here’s the intro.

    Why is the NIE against the troops?

  55. 55
    Stimpy says:

    Obama was not terribly clear in a lot of his answers. I thought that McCain connected with the audience better in a few places than Obama did.

    It was a bit frustrating listening to both McCain and Obama more-or-less ignore the questions and use the subject of the sentence as an excuse to hit their rehearsed talking points.

    I guess that is the curse of campaigning. The candidates are so "on message" that you hardly see them. I would really enjoy listening to a frank discussion about what the candidate really feels about the nuances of an issue.

    Obama once again won on substance and nuance, easily. Gramps was fishing for a relaxed funny zinger to deflate Obama, but it was forced, obviously.

    Oh, and Brokaw was a Dick.

  56. 56
    Comrade Jake says:

    Heh. I’m not sure I know how to embed images any longer here, but this one’s a keeper.

  57. 57
    Citizen Kit says:

    Actually, my impression was the he acted like McCain was a nuisance rather than an opponent.

    Seriously. There was a moment, right before the Pakistan conversation where you could see Obama in the background, looking faintly amused while McCheney pulled something out of his ass about what Obama had just said.

  58. 58
    Conservatively Liberal says:

    From a regular poster at RedState

    I think that the only move that can create a prevailing coalition is to put Sarah in charge and let her run with the program.
     
    McCain is too "Senatorial" (nicely said) and will never make an impression upon the voters. Let Sarah go and hope…

    I guess they really want Palin at the top of the ticket We can only hope that this happens.

    Olbermann noted that CSPAN had a camera following Obama around the room post-debate and eventually they had to tell the viewers that McCain had left the building (thus the camera on Obama).

    Ladies & Gentlemen, Elvis has left the building.

  59. 59
    HRA says:

    There was a moment when Obama was answering a question and McCain walked right past him in the back. I thought we would have one of those eternal moments of past debates where he would end up at Obama’s elbow.
    "That one" will be a talking point for the pundits in the next day at least. It was disrespectful.
    I watched Barack and Michelle walking around the sections onstage and being greeted with enthusiasm by the people. Maybe that is why the McCain’s left?
    TG there is only one more debate.

  60. 60
    Shaggy says:

    Okay, I need some help with this one: Soledad O’Brien on CNN was watching the debate with 25 Ohio undecideds that were using those opinion meters.

    Throughout the debate, to those of us obsessed with these meter readings (what is this, a Scientology audit?) it seemed like Obama generally scored better with the "meter people". At the end of the debate, Soledad asked the group who they thought "won", it was 14 Obama, 11 McCain.

    THEN, she asked them if they had decided who they were going to vote for if they had decided. It was 15 McCain, 10 Obama.

    How were these people ever undecided? If they walked into the debate undecided and then decided to vote for the guy they thought LOST?

    Is it a race thing?

    These undecideds decide our fate every 2, 4 and 6 years and they have got to be the lowest information voters out there. I think I hate them.

  61. 61
    Chuck says:

    @Shaggy: as Yglesias suggested a few hours ago, the polls have swung enough toward Obama lately that the people who are now "uncommitted" are generally people who would typically lean Republican. Generally speaking, most people to the left of them (the true center) have moved to Obama. I think that’s at least part of the explanation.

  62. 62

    I don’t know about you all but it warms my cockles every time Camp McPOW and GOP toadies whine that something isn’t their hero’s fault:

    Waah! McPOW doesn’t want to run a negative campaign, but somehow everyone in his camp keeps saying ugly things about Obama.

    Waaah! People are making fun of his new lipstick wearing pitbull.

    Waaah! Brokaw didn’t lick McPOW’s asshole in a counter-clockwise direction so he didn’t do that well at the debate.

    Waaah! John McPOW has absolutely no control over anything or anyone and when something goes wrong he will sit down and cry and say it isn’t his fault. Doesn’t that make you want to put him in charge of the whole show??

    The GOP has become the WATB party.

  63. 63
    CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII says:

    Is it a race thing?

    Why yes, yes it is!

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