Playing Games

So, according to CNBC, the rally today is due to two things. First, the typical dead cat bounce. Second, the SEC is thinking about changing accounting rules so they can inflate the value of certain assets:

The SEC and Financial Accounting Standards Board instead said banks should apply rules that require them to review their assets each quarter and report losses if values have declined, according to a proposal released today. A suspension isn’t being considered, said the people, who declined to be identified because the plan hasn’t been completed.

Congressmen, banking lobbyists and companies including American International Group Inc. have urged the SEC to place a moratorium on fair-value accounting, saying it forces firms to report losses that they never expect to incur. Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke and other proponents say a suspension would erode confidence that firms are owning up to losses.

“In the past couple of weeks, fair-value accounting has been under attack,” JPMorgan Chase & Co. analyst Dane Mott wrote in a report today. “Blaming fair-value accounting for the credit crisis is a lot like going to a doctor for a diagnosis and then blaming him for telling you that you are sick.”

Loosening accounting rules will be a winning strategy, I am sure.

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393 replies
  1. 1
    Comrade Jake says:

    Rock on.

  2. 2
    Svensker says:

    Um, am I hallucinating? Did Michael D. just have a post up that went away? And me with a snappy comment, and everything!

  3. 3
    liberatemeiexinfernis says:

    nice. this is the beginning of another bubble

  4. 4
    ThatLeftTurnInABQ says:

    Um, am I hallucinating? Did Michael D. just have a post up that went away?

    I saw it too. A rough paraphrase of it would (IMHO) be:

    Shorter Michael D: “I don’t understand the distinction between the stock market and the credit market. The DOW is back up, so what is everybody worried about?”.

    Or something like that. I was going to post links to the stories over at nakedcapitalism about LIBOR and TED putting 18 million cracks in the glass ceiling, but then Michael’s post went away. Oh well.

  5. 5
    t jasper parnell says:

    Changing the accounting rules isn’t a strategy it’s a tactic.

  6. 6
    Comrade Fedorovich Stuck says:

    Loosening accounting rules will be a winning strategy, I am sure

    Might as well make the illegal legal. That’s been the operating mode anywho for this country at least the past eight years.

  7. 7
    Michael D. says:

    Um, am I hallucinating? Did Michael D. just have a post up that went away?

    Sorry. Agree with me or not, I’m just getting used to the new way of doing things here. The post is back.

  8. 8
    Stevenovitch says:

    Yesterday in the other thread someone told me that there is only $300 billion dollars in mortgages at risk of defaulting, and that a large part of the problem was that banks are forced to write down their other mortgages as bad assets for some reason or other. This was given as a reason for why simply subsidizing the mortgage payments of people at risk of defaulting wouldn’t positively effect this crisis.

    Is this what he was talking about?

  9. 9
    Punchy says:

    Also proposed for fixing mess: Allowing companies to count all dollar bills as $10s, all $10s as $100s, and any C-note on hand can be worth anything the company chooses.

    Sadly, that still puts MorganStudly -$90.73 in the hole.

  10. 10
    Comrade Napoleon says:

    Just like everything else in the Bush world government. Just create your own reality and pretend away what you don’t like. Your company owns a widget that is really worth $100, but it would be great if your balance sheet carried it at $500? Just carry it at $500.

    By the way, about a week ago I saw a car with one of those stick on magnet ribbons that ussually have “fight autism” or “support the troops” and slogans of that nature, but this one said something like “pretending won’t make it so”. I took it as commentary on the right.

  11. 11
    t jasper parnell says:

    So too is giving a huge pile of money to Henry “Hank” Paulson to buy a bunch of stuff without explaining why it will clear the clog in the credit market a strategy; it is a tactic. See here for an explanation of why the plan isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.

  12. 12
    Ronin122 says:

    Also proposed for fixing mess: Allowing companies to count all dollar bills as $10s, all $10s as $100s, and any C-note on hand can be worth anything the company chooses

    Stupid idea. Almost all money a company holds is electronic. Actually over 90% of all USA money is electronic.

  13. 13
    Polish the Guillotines (formerly FLILF Hunter) says:

    I sure don’t understand this any more than most folks, but assuming this is truly about the lending markets being frozen, and assuming the freeze on lending really does impact payrolls, I’d expect the next two weeks to tell the tale. Tomorrow is payday. October 15th is payday.

    Watch for stories, particularly local news stories, about businesses not being able to pay employees. I’m already hearing these stories on local talk radio.

    Two weeks of massive payroll shortfalls would topple the dominoes.

  14. 14
    liberal says:

    A diarist at GOS proposed a reasonable stopgap solution:
    (1) Make it $200B; at Paulson’s $50B/mo, that will last 4 months
    (2) Don’t include e.g. the mortgage bankruptcy stuff; might be veto bait
    (3) Add more oversight
    (4) Strengthen the equity warrant provisions

  15. 15
    Zifnab says:

    Hey! I’ve got an idea! Rather than actually handing Paulson $700 billion, can we just tell everybody we did? We can even write IOU: Hank Paulson $700 billion on a sheet of paper and give it to him in some Congressional ceremony. Then, upon realizing that they’re all going to get bailouts, the Wall Street Titans will recover and the markets will spring back into place. Everyone will start trading again, secure in the confidence that Paulson has all the money he needs to bail them out.

    Sure, none of the money will actually exist, but what’s important is that people think it does because we run on an economy built on faith anyway. How can this go wrong?

  16. 16
    liberal says:

    So, according to CNBC, the rally today is due to two things.

    The stock market is really just a distraction. The real story is the credit markets themselves, not the stock market’s interpretation of the crisis in the credit markets.

  17. 17
    Teak111 says:

    Some where, most likely hell, Ken Lay is smiling.

    Can we say ENRON boys and girls?

  18. 18

    OT: Governor Palin just wrote another SNL sketch for Tina Fey. Sullivan has the video. The Beer Heiress must be sharing her stash.

  19. 19
    Comrade Va Highlander says:

    My father used to say that some people could fuck up an iron ball.

    Watching these people trying to fix the markets, I see I owe the old man an apology.

  20. 20
    4tehlulz says:

    I propose that we give the Treasury as many 700 billion Zimbabwean dollars.

    Why go through the trouble of wrecking our currency when we can save time by switching to one that’s already useless?

  21. 21
    dslak says:

    Governor Palin just wrote another SNL sketch for Tina Fey.

    Shorter Sarah Palin: Watch me while I completely demolish McCain’s primary argument for voting for him.

  22. 22
    Mike S says:

    Actually, this is a somewhat decent idea. The problem is that they are valuing al loans the same. So even though there are tons of people making payments on time and won’gt default, their loans are treated the same as loans that are in default.

    Of course this could lead to the banks lying about the default rates.

  23. 23
    Polish the Guillotines (formerly FLILF Hunter) says:

    OT: Governor Palin just wrote another SNL sketch for Tina Fey. Sullivan has the video. The Beer Heiress must be sharing her stash.

    It’s gonna take a lot of beer to wash down all that fail.

  24. 24
    jerry 101 says:

    As an auditor, I found the switch to fair value reporting to be distressing, and I think returning to the traditional approach is a better idea.

    The traditional approach is that you value your assets at historic cost unless there is a clear reason to write the value down (known as impairment – such a situation might be that you invested in another company and now that company is bankrupt, thus the value of the investment is probably about $0). You can’t write values up, except when you sell an investment, which is when you record a realized gain. On certain investments, you can record unrealized gains and losses, but its not required for all investments. In addition, traditionally, you record fixed asset purchases and then depreciate them over time.

    With the new rules that were passed, you have to carry everything at market value. Market values are often fuzzy, unless you’re dealing with something that has a ready market value, such as a stock or a mutual fund (you can find out how much its worth by looking it up on the internets).

    Unfortunately, an investment in a privately held company may not be easy to value. Nor would an investment in a hedge fund. Nor would the value of a building.

    So, you kind of make things up.

    Which is an idea that banks and financial institutions LOVE when the market is a rising.

    Of course, it SUCKS when the market falls. You can’t just totally pull the valuation out of your rear end. You have to substantiate it somehow.

    Its just that the valuation is really unreliable when you get into investments that can’t be sold easily.

    Historic cost measurements, on the other hand, are easy to measure (how much did you pay for this investment? Oh yeah, that’s the value. You worry about the change in value when you sell the investment).

    Assets like buildings, equipment, vehicles, etc are carried at the purchase price and then depreciated over time.

    Now, businesses will have to try to figure out what the market value for such holdings are.

    So, here in Chicago, the Tribune Tower has been standing for something like 80 years. The book value of the Tower is really not a relevant measure anymore. The building is worth something far different than $0 (typically, buildings are depreciated over 35-ish years). The land that the building sits on is worth FAR more than what the Tribune paid for it 80 years ago, if only due to inflation.

    But how much is it really worth? What is the fair market value of a prime piece of real estate in downtown Chicago? Well, the land is worth a lot. But, there is a really old building sitting on it. That building is not worth nearly as much as a similarly sized building that was built 2 years ago.

    Oh, and the Trib Tower (if it’s not already a designated historic landmark) is subject to designation as an historic landmark, which means you can’t knock it down and put something else up.

    So, great piece of land. But it’s occupied by an obsolete building that can’t be torn down. What’s the real fair market value for that?

    So, let’s say you’re an investment bank. You’ve got an asset that generates cash flows (a mortgage backed security, for instance). It’s paying out. The payments did decline a bit due to some foreclosure problems, but it’s still generating income. It’s not going to generate the income you expected when you purchased it, but there’s something.

    So, it has a value.

    But, on the broader market, no one will buy these things. No one is selling these things. No one wants them.

    That infers a value of $0. But there is a value in something that generates cash.

    So, what’s the value?

    You can’t go an compare it to the sales prices of similar securities. None have been sold. You can take the Net Present Value of the remaining cash flows, but fair value accounting says you can’t do that. Plus, given the problems with foreclosures, there’s no guarantee that such a calculation will be accurate anyway. You have to take the market value. Except there is no market.

    So, you have to take something that is worth something because it spits money into your pocket every month, and say it has a value of $0. Because no one will buy it.

    Of course, there’s also a lie in there. Someone out there will buy it.

    But they may only pay pennies on the dollar, and the banks won’t sell that low. After all, it’s still generating most of the income it was supposed to, so why take a bath on selling it?

    There’s a really bad conundrum here, and it’s been caused by changing a long-standing accounting principle that is easy to understand but a bit misleading and trying to replace it with a difficult to understand and potentially almost as misleading new principle.

    Fair value accounting sucks. Historical value is the way to go.

  25. 25
    Comrade The Moar You Know says:

    Wholly off topic, there’s been some neat work going on in some other threads. A present for John:

    <object width=”425″ height=”344″><param name=”movie” value=”http://www.youtube.com/v/nhcM_hx0zxw&hl=en&fs=1″></param><param name=”allowFullScreen” value=”true”></param><embed src=”http://www.youtube.com/v/nhcM_hx0zxw&hl=en&fs=1″ type=”application/x-shockwave-flash” allowfullscreen=”true” width=”425″ height=”344″></embed></object>

  26. 26
    Alan says:

    Great idea! The same folks that gamed the system to practically bankruptcy will now be allowed to determine their own value … rather than the market. No, they won’t game this.

  27. 27
    Alan says:

    And BTW, Budweiser’s American Ale sucks big time.

  28. 28
    Josh Huaco (formerly Comrade Josh Vondoktorpepper) says:

    So we’re all capitalists again?

  29. 29
    ThymeZone says:

    Congressmen, banking lobbyists and companies including American International Group Inc. have urged the SEC to place a moratorium on fair-value accounting

    This would be more useful if we had the names of the congressmen who are advancing this idea.

  30. 30
    KRK says:

    Couric: You made a funny comment, you’ve said you have been listening to Joe Biden’s speeches since you were in second grade.

    Palin: It’s been since like ’72, yah.

    Couric: You have a 72-year-old running mate, is that kind of a risky thing to say, insinuating that Joe Biden’s been around awhile?

    Palin: Oh no, it’s nothing negative at all. He’s got a lot of experience and just stating the fact there, that we’ve been hearing his speeches for all these years. So he’s got a tremendous amount of experience and, you know, I’m the new energy, the new face, the new ideas and he’s got the experience based on many many years in the Senate and voters are gonna have a choice there of what it is that they want in these next four years.

    Sarah Palin apparently believes that she actually is Barack Obama.

  31. 31
    Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse says:

    (John? Annette? Sorry, I broke this thread with a bigass table. I think that goes beyond testing the server.)

  32. 32
    Annette says:

    The Wolf: You’re… Jimmie, right? This is your house?
    Jimmie: Sure is.
    The Wolf: I’m Winston Wolfe. I solve problems.
    Jimmie: Good, we got one.
    The Wolf: So I heard. May I come in?
    Jimmie: Uh, yeah, please do.

  33. 33
    Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse says:

    Annette is the Wolf. Right. Which means I’m going to get shot next time I go to the bathroom.

    #crosses legs forever#

    (Thanks, Annette!)

  34. 34
    jake says:

    Just move the decimal points and zeros around until everyone is happy.

    FY 2007 Earnings $.000000000000001 :-(
    FY 2007 Earnings $1000000000000000 :-)

    No way am I screwing around with the tables.

  35. 35
    gopher2b says:

    This would be more useful if we had the names of the congressmen who are advancing this idea.

    Actually, I think its that totally reasonable Democratic woman from Ohio. It’s not a terrible idea if the reason the banks need to raise (cash) capital is because their balance sheets are messed up by the artifically low falling MBSs (and I do think they are artificially low).

  36. 36
    Comrade Warren Terra says:

    Can I just point out, off topic, that the new, stable Balloon Juice is totally out of control?

    It was a lot easier to attempt to keep up when site issues meant that many comments (and commenters) went away, and the site wasn’t getting up to a thousand comments a day (Monday posts: 1048 comments, today’s posts: 546 comments thus far). Bring back WordPress Error!

    Just kidding, mostly; but the comment volume has gotten so high you may need more threads …

  37. 37
    Comrade The Moar You Know says:

    Annette is the Wolf.

    Righty-ho. Computer goes in the fireplace, then. Hard drive in the wood chipper. Sell the house and move to a country Annette can’t get into.

    This would be more useful if we had the names of the congressmen who are advancing this idea.

    And their addresses.

  38. 38
    Cain says:

    So what’s the new drinking game for the VP debates????? I’ve taken friday off so I can be comfortably hung over.

    cain

  39. 39
    Jon H says:

    “Just move the decimal points and zeros around until everyone is happy.”

    Like Zimbabwe, who knocked 8 zeros off their currency in August.

  40. 40
    The People's Glorious Pantload of Studliness says:

    Sarah Palin apparently believes that she actually is Barack Obama.

    She’s just flat-out delusional. She really thinks that bluster and down-home MILFiness trump substance, and that this campaign is a dry run of Palin/Christ ’12. The woman would seem to have nary an inkling that her 15 minutes are ticking fast away. When she referred to a “Palin/McCain” ticket a few weeks ago, that wasn’t words getting jumbled, that was an honest-to-FSM Freudian slip.

    This is why I can’t go along with those who feel sorry for her being in so over her head. She sees her bugs as features, actual selling points, and she can’t wait for the day she leads the true believers to the Glorious People’s Theocratic Republic of Alaska (there’s a reason she risked her baby’s health to ensure he was born on Alaskan soil) while the rest of us writhe in agony as we baste in our sins.

  41. 41
    Cain says:

    It was a lot easier to attempt to keep up when site issues meant that many comments (and commenters) went away, and the site wasn’t It was a lot easier to attempt to keep up when site issues meant that many comments (and commenters) went away, and the site wasn’t getting up to a thousand comments a day (Monday posts: 1048 comments, today’s posts: 546 comments thus far). Bring back WordPress Error!
    getting up to a thousand comments a day (Monday posts: 1048 comments, today’s posts: 546 comments thus far). Bring back WordPress Error!

    That’s because we seem to be getting more Kos folks. John’s been showing up every freaking day on Kos. Jeezus. Can’t they get their own damn content?

    cain

  42. 42
    AkaDad says:

    It’s clear that government regulations caused this. If we want to avoid this in the future, we need to eliminate all regulations.

  43. 43
    t jasper parnell says:

    Speaking of playing games, should John McCain become president we can expect this level of management expertise.

  44. 44
    El Cid says:

    All you Islamosexual Democrats just hate America and if it weren’t for your stupid rules about “math” and “accounting” and all this other gay sh*t, our American Patriot companies would not only not be in a mess, they could help us find the $700 billion dollars’ worth of housing that all the black people stole, and also we could have companies making as much money as they wanted to say, like, instead of losing money, GM could say, “Hey, we made a quintillion dollars,” and because you America-hating librul accounting geeks couldn’t stop them, no one could say it wasn’t true.

  45. 45
    w vincentz says:

    Wall St reminds me of Maple St.
    That’s where a 10 year old kid set up a lemonade stand in expectations of making a fortune selling a refreshing beverage to the thirsty traffic that journeyed along Maple St. Those included Mrs Jones from four houses down the block, Mr Smith two more away, and Ol’ man Liebowitz who lived on the corner.
    There wasn’t much traffic that hot summer day. The ice cubes melted in the pitcher of lemonade.
    The 10 year old sat by his sidewalk business, waiting expectantly for his first customer.
    Finally, a car drove up and stopped. Out stepped Ol’ man Liebowitz, the crakiest guy on Maple St.
    “Want a nice cool glass of lemonade?”, the 10 year old asked.
    “Sure would be nice”, the old guy replied. “How much?”
    The 10 year old said, “Well, I’ve been sittin’ here all day in the hot sun, and I’m hoping for a profit. So, how about seven bucks?”

    I’ve never seen that ol’ coot run so fast to get back into his car.

  46. 46
    Josh Huaco says:

    El Cid FTW!

  47. 47
    JGabriel says:

    liberal:

    (1) Make it $200B; at Paulson’s $50B/mo, that will last 4 months
    (2) Don’t include e.g. the mortgage bankruptcy stuff; might be veto bait

    Sorry, but I really can’t see what good it does to give them the sweetener without the medicine.

    If Bush/Paulson won’t accept a measure to fix the mortgage problems at the source, in such a way that can help the people who are about to lost their homes, then they don’t need the 200 (or 700) billion either.

    .

  48. 48
    LiberalTarian says:

    But, John, they have played so straight with us all these years. NOT.

    No, let’s not follow bad with more good. Make them accountable, make them show us there’s. But, in little increments, a kind of fiscal strip tease if you will. I can’t take all that honesty at one enormously Rubenesque time. Too many boobs, not enough feathers.

  49. 49
    JGabriel says:

    El Cid:

    America-hating librul accounting geeks

    Gotta admit, I love (if by love we mean we “find ridiculously hypocritical and laughable”) the new meme of the “liberal accountant”.

    Is there any profession considered more ‘conservative’ in the popular worldview than accounting?

    .

  50. 50
    Comrade Jake says:

    At this point, there are only so many ways to describe the Palin choice:

    <img src=”http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/funny-pictures-bird-cat-cage.jpg” alt=”the Palin pick”>

  51. 51
    Svensker says:

    but the comment volume has gotten so high you may need more threads

    Ditto with the commenters. And if we get any higher, we won’t even have threads.

  52. 52
    Zifnab says:

    Sorry, but I really can’t see what good it does to give them the sweetener without the medicine.

    If Bush/Paulson won’t accept a measure to fix the mortgage problems at the source, in such a way that can help the people who are about to lost their homes, then they don’t need the 200 (or 700) billion either.

    That’s what I’m seeing, too. Why are we handing over $200 billion if everyone gets foreclosed on anyway? Remind me again of the purpose of this bailout. Is it designed to save Main Street folks from getting tossed out on the street, or just a measure for Wall Street to keep making a profit when no one else in the country has a penny to their names?

  53. 53
    HyperIon says:

    Fair value accounting sucks. Historical value is the way to go.

    so where does mark to market fit in?
    when i saw “the smartest guys in the room”, i first learned about this idea.
    it was presented (in the movie) as a bad thing. help!

  54. 54
    HyperIon says:

    Is there any profession considered more ‘conservative’ in the popular worldview than accounting?

    remember the old monty python skit about chartered accountants?
    and yet me thinks that accountants are NOT being held…accountable.
    what is a credit rating agency besides a bunch of accountants?

  55. 55
    Tiparillo says:

    Actually, according to this on Kos the DeFazio (D-OR) No BAILOUTS Act leads with a switch to “economic value accounting” which I assume is what our auditor friend is talking about above. The rest of the 5 part plan is described in the link.

    BAILOUTS is an acronym in the title of the bill standing for “Bringing Accounting, Increased Liquidity, Oversight and Upholding Taxpayer Security”

  56. 56
    Not My Fault says:

    So what’s the new drinking game for the VP debates????? I’ve taken friday off so I can be comfortably hung over.

    Drink whenever Palin uses an informalism.

    “I’ll bring ’em to ya
    would be 2 drinks.

  57. 57
    SGEW says:

    So what’s the new drinking game for the VP debates?

    Honestly, I’m thinking of abstaining from alcohol for the V.P. debate. My drinking game rules for the first Pres. debate was both too predictive and not predictive enough. Trashed me and my friends (how was I supposed to know that they’d actually talk about torture?! I was sure it wouldn’t be brought up, so it was an auto shot. Big mistake).

    Instead, I shall be indulging in . . . other vices. Should be a hoot.

  58. 58
    w vincentz says:

    Drudge and themudflats have picked up the witness flipping story.
    Looks like Hurricane Sarah has been a whole lot of wind and is headed somewhere else very soon.
    Mark Oct 10 on your calendars. That’s when Banchflower’s report hits.

  59. 59
    ninerdave says:

    And BTW, Budweiser’s American Ale sucks big time.

    …and you expected different why?

  60. 60
    KT says:

    Drink whenever Palin uses an informalism.

    Jesus! That would be a death sentence!

  61. 61
    Polish the Guillotines (formerly FLILF Hunter) says:

    Is there any profession considered more ‘conservative’ in the popular worldview than accounting?

    You’ve obviously never heard of Herbert Kornfeld.

  62. 62
    Cain says:

    2 sips – russia
    4 sips – foreign policy
    2 sips – anything related to age
    chug – gaffe by either party

    remember to drink a moose head lager I hear that’s teh alaskan drink of choice cuz of the moose an all.

    cain

  63. 63
    SGEW says:

    chug – gaffe by either party

    Admit it. You want us to die from alcohol poisoning.

  64. 64
    Cain says:

    Admit it. You want us to die from alcohol poisoning.

    Believe me if either one fucks up, you’re going to be chugging that beer. It’ll just be for different reasons :-)

    cain

  65. 65
    Polish the Guillotines (formerly FLILF Hunter) says:

    What happens when the fail is too big to fail?

    I think I’ve stumbled across McCain’s campaign “strategy”. Sure, it’s impulsive — some might say misguided — but it’s daring.

  66. 66
    Dennis - SGMM says:

    Drink whenever Palin uses an informalism.

    You could get screwed up on water with that one. Palin habitually drops the ending “g” on every word she speaks.

  67. 67
    AkaDad says:

    I’ll be playing a non-drinking game with my friend, Mary Jane.

  68. 68
    jrg says:

    I’ll be playing a non-drinking game with my friend, Mary Jane.

    Can you liveblog Palin’s responses? The rest of us will need a translation.

  69. 69
    Comrade The Moar You Know says:

    And BTW, Budweiser’s American Ale sucks big time.

    …and you expected different why?

    It would surprise me somewhat. Making a super-pale pilsner like Bud does is actually very hard, and to make it consistently (you gotta give ’em that, every Budweiser tastes like every other Budweiser) is the mark of a truly fine brewer. I don’t like Budweiser but I give them a LOT of respect for doing what they do well and consistently. Plus it doesn’t have that weird additive that Miller has that makes me swell up and break out in hives.

    I don’t expect bold and wonderful from Budweiser, but I do expect competence.

  70. 70
    liberal says:

    JGabriel wrote,

    Sorry, but I really can’t see what good it does to give them the sweetener without the medicine.

    The medicine is the guvmint getting warrants.

  71. 71
    t jasper parnell says:

    Drink on “literally” and “new energy” and “John” or “John McCain” and pray that national health care covers liver transplants.

  72. 72
    JGabriel says:

    liberal:

    The medicine is the guvmint getting warrants.

    The Fed is already empowered to make such deals, e.g. AIG.

    .

  73. 73
    Polish the Guillotines (formerly FLILF Hunter) says:

    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt. — Abraham Lincoln

    Cue Sarah Palin.

  74. 74
    liberal says:

    Zifnab wrote,

    If Bush/Paulson won’t accept a measure to fix the mortgage problems at the source, in such a way that can help the people who are about to lost their homes, then they don’t need the 200 (or 700) billion either.

    We can’t do anything about the people who are going to lose their homes. Too much money.

    Also, apart from the fact that most of them are not blameless victims, I don’t see why foreclosure is such a terrible outcome. Many of these people presumably didn’t put anything down, and put very little into the house because they haven’t held it long.

    That’s what I’m seeing, too. Why are we handing over $200 billion if everyone gets foreclosed on anyway? Remind me again of the purpose of this bailout. Is it designed to save Main Street folks from getting tossed out on the street, or just a measure for Wall Street to keep making a profit when no one else in the country has a penny to their names?

    Sh*t, now I’m starting to sound like ThymeZone (nooooooooooooo!): it’s to prevent the credit markets from freezing up. I won’t go into that because people already described it in another thread.

  75. 75
    AkaDad says:

    Can you liveblog Palin’s responses?

    I will, but if my game gets intense, I might temporarily forget how to spell.

  76. 76
    Comrade Jake says:

    Drudge and themudflats have picked up the witness flipping story.

    I’m not sure how much stock to put in that story. The one source would appear to be Jason Leopold, not the most reliable dude walking the Earth.

  77. 77
    Martin says:

    Well, /suspending/ mark-to-market is silly, if you ask me.

    I think it’s a big part of the problem, but it’s also a really good system for a great many things. So, why not keep mark-to-market but in the case of something like a mortgage that has an inherent value so long as it isn’t in default, why not provide an alternate approach to valuation and let the holder choose between the two? When things are working well, they should largely match. When they aren’t (like now) and the values diverge, the holder has something they can fall back on.

    That seems like the safer solution.

  78. 78
    w vincentz says:

    Ok…now that the Monday meltdown has been digested, I’m guessing that many missed the only stock that went up. I’ve actually stocked up on it, right in my cupboard.
    CAMPBELL SOUP!
    Warhol (RIP) would be soooo proud.
    I’m opening a soup kitchen for the locals here.
    Heck, with the “ends” from the deli, day olds from the bakery, and unpicked up pizzas from Sal’s pizza, we’ll be feastin’ like Wassillans. Bring yer own mooseheads. No budweiser permitted.
    Wine is fine, especially the good ones from the Finger Lakes area.
    Cheers!

  79. 79
    Martin says:

    Drink whenever Palin uses an informalism.

    “I’ll bring ‘em to ya”
    would be 2 drinks.

    Dead before the opening remarks are done.

  80. 80
    t jasper parnell says:

    Cue Sarah Palin.

    Are you suggesting that she doesn’t read “all of them”? Just ’cause she is a serial liar doesn’t mean that everything she says is a lie.

  81. 81
    Comrade The Moar You Know says:

    You’ve obviously never heard of Herbert Kornfeld.

    <img src=”http://i526.photobucket.com/albums/cc342/arbiterusa/kornfeld.jpg”>

    Letta opener of death, bitches!

  82. 82
    liberal says:

    JGabriel wrote,

    The Fed is already empowered to make such deals, e.g. AIG.

    AIG was wholesale seizure. The claim (which I don’t necessarily buy, but it’s plausible) is that some banks can be kept from completely going under by this backdoor equity injection. So it might be a cheaper way of dealing with things. Though it’s an empirical question whether the sector can be saved sans near-total nationalization.

    (I do think that claims that we’d go into an irreversible depression are suspect, because I assume it’s within Constitutional limits to nationalize the entire sector. Though that would be a big mess.)

    Furthermore, AFAICT the Fed is limited in what it can do. I’m guessing that they actually could just keep taking AIG-like actions, but they’ll run out of $$. At that point, without held from the Treasury, they could still do it by printing money, without statutory go-ahead from Congress. And I’d further suppose that doing it by floating debt as proposed has many advantages over inflating our way out of the problem.

    But I’m out of my depth here.

  83. 83
    Comrade Jake says:

    Palin: the one-woman wrecking crew continues:

    %lt;object width=”425″ height=”344″><embed src=”http://www.youtube.com/v/xRkWebP2Q0Y&hl=en&fs=1″ type=”application/x-shockwave-flash” allowfullscreen=”true” width=”425″ height=”344″>

    If you haven’t seen the clip yet, Palin can’t name a single national newspaper. She just keeps repeating “all of them! All your newspapers are become mine!”

    Unfuckingreal.

  84. 84
    KRK says:

    More from Palin vs. Couric. Palin can’t/won’t name a single news source:

    COURIC: And when it comes to establishing your world view, I was curious, what newspapers and magazines did you regularly read before you were tapped for this — to stay informed and to understand the world?
    ***
    PALIN: I’ve read most of them again with a great appreciation for the press, for the media —
    ***
    COURIC: But what ones specifically? I’m curious.
    ***
    PALIN: Um, all of them, any of them that have been in front of me over all these years.
    ***
    COURIC: Can you name any of them?
    ***
    PALIN: I have a vast variety of sources where we get our news.

    Video at Think Progress.

  85. 85
    4tehlulz says:

    You’re going to regret allowing images, John.

  86. 86
    El Cid says:

    Hmmm. This may be in part the argument of Marcy Kaptur and Peter DeFazio. From the NO BAILOUTS ACT:

    No BAILOUTS Act

    Bringing Accounting, Increased Liquidity, Oversight and Upholding Taxpayer Security

    1. Require the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) to require an economic value standard to measure the capital of financial institutions.

    This bill will require SEC to implement a rule to suspend the application of fair value accounting standards to financial institutions, which marks assets to the market value, no matter the conditions of the market. When no meaningful market exists, as is the current market for mortgage backed securities, this standard requires institutions to value assets at fire-sale prices. This creates a capital shortfall on paper. Using the economic value standard as bank examiners have traditionally done will immediately correct the capital shortfalls experienced by many institutions.

    They both just did very, very well on Lou Dobbs. Especially Kaptur. Even Dobbs was impressed.

  87. 87
    Martin says:

    Ok, so we know that Palin hasn’t been briefed on what the acceptable papers are. I’m sure she can name half a dozen papers, she just doesn’t know if she’s allowed to.

    This is turning out just swell.

  88. 88
    Comrade Jake says:

    Even Dobbs was impressed.

    It’d be more convincing if you left out that part. Just sayin’.

  89. 89
    Comrade NonyNony says:

    Also, apart from the fact that most of them are not blameless victims, I don’t see why foreclosure is such a terrible outcome. Many of these people presumably didn’t put anything down, and put very little into the house because they haven’t held it long.

    If they can pay under re-negotiated terms then it’s better to let them keep their houses. It keeps them in a house, it keeps the housing stock from inflating (and thereby pushing down prices for homes), and it means that the loan they have will get paid back (making it a good asset instead of a failed one).

    The housing bubble is too big, and prices on homes will deflate, but there’s no need to make it worse than it needs to be. And if people can actually pay their loan back under different terms, it makes the most sense right now to let them. The need to “punish” people for making bad choices is kind of wrong-headed in this instance. The FDIC is right now taking this very tactic with loans that are held by banks in their conservatorship – turning bad mortgages into good one.

    OTOH, if they can’t pay under a different set of more reasonable terms then you might as well foreclose – that’s part of the “prices are going to have to come down” part of the story. But you have to be sane about this – if you can get the money back from the loan – or even part of the money back – by converting it from some weird ARM loan and into a standard 30 year fixed rate loan then you should do it in this market – not doing so just makes things worse for no good reason.

  90. 90
    m.croche says:

    I hear that La Palin is aware of all internet traditions, too ….

  91. 91
    4tehlulz says:

    COURIC: But what ones specifically? I’m curious.

    ***
    PALIN: Um, all of them, any of them that have been in front of me over all these years.

  92. 92
    4tehlulz says:

    derp! WordPress haet Photobucket!

  93. 93
    El Cid says:

    Comrade Jake: I don’t like Lou Dobbs, but I don’t exactly regret that a very progressive bill by two staunch Democrats just got heard by far, far more people than would read them on The Nation, or even Daily Kos. And even a right wing fop like Dobbs recognized the value of an actual progressive move by two leading Democrats. That’s something.

  94. 94
    Cain says:

    After watching that video excerpt, I feel like drinking now… good grief. Her problem is that she’s so absolutely controlled by her handlers she can’t say anything without it coming out like it’s stupid. When she does open her mouth it’s still a gaffe. She’s going to be in a world of hurt come Thursday. I don’t feel sorry for her, cuz it’s all entertainment.

    The U.S.A – best reality tv evah!

    cain

  95. 95
    KRK says:

    I hate the stupid cutesy names they come up with for Acts these days.

    This is a perfect example. “No BAILOUTS Act: Bringing Accounting, Increased Liquidity, Oversight and Upholding Taxpayer Security”

    First, it’s horrible English. Presumably the law is “bringing” all of the first three points, which means an “and” before “oversight,” while also “upholding” the last. Also, surely there’s already some kind of accounting happening, so “bringing accounting” is stupid. Maybe accountability?

    Then, to be maximally stupid, the full name of the Act puts a “no” in front of the acronym containing all of those things that they’re “bringing” and “upholding.” Does this mean the Act will ensure that there will be NO bringing of accounting, NO bringing of increased liquidity, NO bringing of oversight, and NO upholding of taxpayer security.

    Staffers should just STOP wasting time coming up with cutesy names. They SUCK at it.

  96. 96
    Polish the Guillotines (formerly FLILF Hunter) says:

    It begins.

    Looking for a Sarah Palin lookalike for an adult film to be shot in next 10 days.
    Major adult studio.
    Please send pix, stats etc. ASAP
    Pay: $2000-3000
    No anal required
    * Location: LA
    * Compensation: $2000-3000

    Obvious titles:

    Head of State
    President of Vice

  97. 97
    Conservatively Liberal says:

    So what’s the new drinking game for the VP debates?????

    Instead, I shall be indulging in . . . other vices. Should be a hoot.

    I’ll be playing a non-drinking game with my friend, Mary Jane.

    Same here, but there is still the danger of overdosing. Yeah, I know that there is no toxicity level for it but in this case overdosing means oxygen deprivation. You won’t be able to take a breath of fresh air before the next rule violation forces you to take another hit. It will probably be like stacking up planes at an airport when the traffic is heavy. The debate will end, but you will still have a couple of hundred hits stacked up.

    I expect that the smoke will be roiling from the windows and doors of the house that night, no matter what rules I set up. I hope the fire department doesn’t get called.

  98. 98
    SGEW says:

    PALIN: Um, all of them, any of them that have been in front of me over all these years.

    I can (sort of) understand why she didn’t want to mention all those horrible liberal papers (such as NYT, Washington Post, etc.), but she couldn’t even name, say, USAToday?

    I mean, sure I’ll give her a pass on not naming the Economist, but she couldn’t name drop a single god damned newspaper or magazine?!

    If I didn’t know that she gave her RNC speech from a teleprompter, I might suspect that she actually couldn’t read.

    (still waiting for the video clip where she can’t name a single SCOTUS case except for Roe).

  99. 99
    Polish the Guillotines (formerly FLILF Hunter) says:

    I mean, sure I’ll give her a pass on not naming the Economist, but she couldn’t name drop a single god damned newspaper or magazine?!

    She could’ve been totally base-friendly and rattled off Field & Stream, Guns & Ammo, Solder of Fortune. Is it that hard?

  100. 100
    Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse says:

    Someone’s gonna break this thread and there will be tears before bedtime …

    Images work, but you have to replace those angle brackets. The opening bracket (“less than sign” should be & lt; and the closing angle bracket (“greater than sign”) should be & gt;

    BUT — get rid of the space after the & in each of those codes.

    <img src=”http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Icons/evmap.png” alt=”see?” />

    The blockquote can also be hacked to allow multiple paragraphs by using either three periods (not one, not two) on each line in between the separate paragraphs, or you can stick a non-breaking space there using this code: & nbsp; (again, remove the space beween the ampersand and the rest of the code).

  101. 101
    SoulCatcher says:

    # liberal Says:

    So, according to CNBC, the rally today is due to two things.

    The stock market is really just a distraction. The real story is the credit markets themselves, not the stock market’s interpretation of the crisis in the credit markets.

    That’s an interesting fact.

    Before I continue with my post I want to make a point clear: there is a crisis. It’s finally being explained well enough that there is a problem and it needs to be fixed.

    Back to my post. The thing is…the people who have been arguing for the bailout have used the 777 point drop in the Stock Market as a club against people who oppose the original Paulson bailout or the modified one. I’m sure you have seen them on a number of sites in comments (Kos had a shitload of them last night): “You bailout opposers are too stupid/progressive/ideological/etc to realize that people’s retirement funds and 401Ks just took a beating cause of your opposition.” When people like Michael point out that the market gained around 500 points today, the response is that is what you said (please note I’m not saying that’s what your intent was) and that we have not yet felt the pain and that people like Michael are stupid or are enjoying the crash since “they stuck it to Wall Street”.

    These Paulson or modified-Paulson bailout supporters then go on to repeat the same thing with a twist and then arrogantly tell us all that we should suck it up and take it up the ass OR ELSE!

    They sound just like Bush when he was pushing the Iraq war or when Bush said “pardon the telecoms and give me more spying power in the new FISA bill or ELSE!”

    One thing I will say: at least for me, I completely acknowledge there is a crisis, and we need to deal with it in the short term and the long term, but I’m fucking tired of living in fear of President failure and his merry band of fuckups, and having people who allegedly know better than us tell us that if we just take it up the ass, the GOP daddies will save us all.

    I know this: if there is a crisis, you don’t FUCKING PANIC. You deal with it in a calm and rational way. I don’t fucking care if some shitheads are scared. Too bad for them. Give them some Depends and tell them to go suck their thumbs while the rest of us clean up their mess.

    Sorry for the rant…this crap just pisses me off.

  102. 102
    Soylent Green says:

    Palin’s answer to Couric about what newspapers she reads reminds me of this bit from Woody Allen’s first movie, “Take the Money and Run” (1969).

    Woody’s character has just been released from prison, gets a job interview, and attempts to lie his way into the job.

    Interviewer: Name please.

    Woody: John Q. Public. P-U-B-L-l-C.

    Interviewer: Mr. Public, have you any experience working in an office before?

    Woody: Yes, I have.

    Interviewer: What kind of office was it?

    Woody: Rectangular.

    Interviewer: Have you any experience in running a high-speed digital electronic computer? [huge, costly 1969 version of a computer]

    Woody: Yes, I have.

    Interviewer: Where?

    Woody: My aunt has one.

    Interviewer: And what does your aunt do?

    Woody: I can’t recall.

  103. 103
    Comrade The Moar You Know says:

    COURIC: But what ones specifically? I’m curious.
     
    PALIN: Um, all of them, any of them that have been in front of me over all these years.
     
    COURIC: Can you name any of them?
     
    PALIN: I have a vast variety of sources where we get our news.

    I will bet one million dollars “Cosmo” is where she gets her 99% of her news from, perhaps with a smidgeon of the National Enquirer thrown in for “hard facts”.

  104. 104
    gbear says:

    I mean, sure I’ll give her a pass on not naming the Economist, but she couldn’t name drop a single god damned newspaper or magazine?!

    She didn’t want to say anything that would make John mad. John’s not very nice when he’s mad.

  105. 105
    Polish the Guillotines (formerly FLILF Hunter) says:

    Soylent Green Says:

    Palin’s answer to Couric about what newspapers she reads reminds me of this bit from Woody Allen’s first movie, “Take the Money and Run” (1969).

    Ah, but Soylent… Note the copious white-space in your quotation. Palin’s ramblings would amount to two solid black paragraphs.

  106. 106
    Comrade Jake says:

    I mean, sure I’ll give her a pass on not naming the Economist, but she couldn’t name drop a single god damned newspaper or magazine?!

    Dude, I’m surprised she didn’t name the Bible.

    I do love Couric these days. She does know how to smell blood in the water. “Just one national magazine?”

  107. 107
    AkaDad says:

    To be fair, Palin thought Couric said Newsletters.

  108. 108
    DougJ says:

    Off topic, have you guys seen/read the latest Palin incomprehensible answer? I found a transcript but no footage yet for this one about whether or not global warming is man made:

    Palin: You know there are – there are man’s activities that can be contributed to the issues that we’re dealing with now, these impacts. I’m not going to solely blame all of man’s activities on changes in climate.

  109. 109
    DougJ says:

    Happy to see you’ve all gone off topic with the Palin stuff too.

  110. 110
    gbear says:

    Palin is NEVER off topic.

  111. 111
    SGEW says:

    I’m not going to solely blame all of man’s activities on changes in climate.

    You mean that my drinking habits cannot be attributed to rising surface temperatures in the Gulf Coast?

    I was sure my partner would buy that one. Oh well.

  112. 112
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    Hey Nate, the deer I almost hit with my truck wants his stare back.

  113. 113
    Comrade Jake says:

    Ambinder’s post on the near-complete collapse of the GOP is worth a read, particularly for this gem:

    McCain is attempting to walk between the raindrops with his integrity on the line, and, in the words of one knowledgeable observer, playing out the punchline of, “if you want a friend in this town, get a dog” (wearing lipstick.)

    <img src=”http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/mccain2.jpg” alt=”McCain on drugs”>

  114. 114
    Comrade Glocksman says:

    That’s because we seem to be getting more Kos folks. John’s been showing up every freaking day on Kos. Jeezus. Can’t they get their own damn content?

    Meh, I’m pre-Kos.
    In fact I first stumbled onto this blog because I confused ‘balloon juice’ with ‘hot air’ when tying in the URL and was pleasantly surprised when I didn’t read a Captain Ed bullshit screed as the lead post.

    In fact, I’m another ‘reformed Republican’ just like John Cole.
    Similarly, I’m in a state that traditionally is hostile to Democrats such as Obama.
    Though the tightness of the polling here in Indiana gives me hope. :)

  115. 115
    Scrutinizer says:

    Wow. Palin is almost as stupid as the “let it crash” people.

  116. 116
    DougJ says:

    “let it crash”

    Crash here, crash now.

  117. 117
    Comrade Glocksman says:

    Some may be offended by this photoshop, but I concocted it in a +5 condition and I still think it fits perfectly WRT a commentary on the Republicans still fighting the sixties Culture war a la Nixonland in this election.

  118. 118
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    Wow. Palin is almost as stupid as the “let it crash” people.

    I don’t think stupid can be measured linearly but if it could be there’s no way she’s that stupid. Didn’t she say the bailout was disappointing but necessary?

  119. 119
    Scrutinizer says:

    See?

  120. 120
    Comrade Glocksman says:

    Forgot to close the link

  121. 121
    Scrutinizer says:

    Some may be offended by this photoshop, but I concocted it in a +5 condition and I still think it fits perfectly WRT a commentary on the Republicans still fighting the sixties Culture war a la Nixonland in this election.

    Umm? And?

  122. 122
    Stevenovitch says:

    Everything I’ve read/heard has left the impression that a large number of economists (you know, the people who have purportedly spent their whole life trying to understand how the economy works) have a) not yet been meaningfully consulted by our leadership in Washington during this crisis b) expressed extreme misgivings over the bailout plan. c) provided better alternatives to the bailout plan.

    Interestingly enough, when ABC put what’s her expert in front of my face last night to tell me that my dog will be raped if I don’t support the bailout, they didn’t even bat an eye when they said that she works for a major investment firm. Of course Investors want to save their own asses and this bailout will probably do it but that doesn’t really tell me whether or not it’s good for the economy as a whole, or more specifically, me. Would it kill ABC to get an expert who doesn’t have a literally vested interest in making me believe in this bailout plan regardless of it’s good or bad for the public in general?

  123. 123
    Scrutinizer says:

    Didn’t she say the bailout was disappointing but necessary?

    Man, I honestly couldn’t tell you what she said. Starts talking, I go into MEGO instantaneously. Except that it’s my ears, not my eyes.

  124. 124
  125. 125
    Scrutinizer says:

    OT: Judi Trott was hot.

  126. 126
    Comrade Glocksman says:

    Apparently the IMG tag works fine in preview, but fails miserably in the actual post.

  127. 127
    tBone says:

    I think I’ve stumbled across McCain’s campaign “strategy”. Sure, it’s impulsive—some might say misguided—but it’s daring.

    You forgot “mavericky.” And I don’t think you understand the difference between tactics and strategy, whippersnapper.

    Causing voters to be confused and/or disgusted enough to vote (for no discernible reason) for McCain is the strategy. Keeping an enormous cyclone of bullshit churning until the election is the tactic.

  128. 128
    Comrade Jake says:

    Everything I’ve read/heard has left the impression that a large number of economists (you know, the people who have purportedly spent their whole life trying to understand how the economy works) have a) not yet been meaningfully consulted by our leadership in Washington during this crisis b) expressed extreme misgivings over the bailout plan. c) provided better alternatives to the bailout plan.

    You need to read the economists who have experience with national politics. The ideal plan is likely one that has no shot of getting through the House. That’s the rub. That’s why Krugman described the bill as “not very good” but “good enough”.

  129. 129
    SGEW says:

    K-Lo, that infinite font of wisdom, defends Palin’s “All of ’em” line (h/t Sadly, No!):

    Obviously the governor of Alaska reads. And what it looked liked to me is the governor of Alaska decided she wasn’t going to play along with Couric. Whatever she answered would be scrutinized for the next 24 hours for what she included and left off. So instead she let Katie badger her a little.

    And this is better?

    And now the ticket is in yet a better position to run against the media.

    And this is a good thing?

    They want to lose.

  130. 130
    SGEW says:

    Krugman described the bill as “not very good” but “good enough”.

    Don’t let the WIN be the enemy of “meh”: all you will get is FAIL.

  131. 131
    ninerdave says:

    RedState knows how to fix the financial crisis, send in Palin:

    Gov. Palin may be just the person to speak their language. Surely, she could fairly promise in return to campaign in their districts and defend their decision to skeptical voters. Then, hold a joint press conference hailing them as heroes for biting the bullet to switch their votes and save the economy and, while she’s at it, explain to the media that she has learned as a Governor that being a doer matters more than being a talker. “Nancy Pelosi, here are the votes you couldn’t deliver in your own caucus. Now, let’s get beyond finger-pointing and do the people’s business.”

    via Sully

    I mean she reads all newspapers, so she has to know something.

  132. 132
    Comrade Jake says:

    Don’t let the WIN be the enemy of “meh”: all you will get is FAIL.

    Right. So what do you propose there, tough guy?

  133. 133
    SGEW says:

    So what do you propose there, tough guy?

    Meh.

  134. 134
    AkaDad says:

    This made me LOL.

  135. 135
    AkaDad says:

    Hmmm. My picture didn’t show up.

  136. 136
    Conservatively Liberal says:

    McCain at RNC

    I know it shouldn’t be funny, but for some reason it is. Why?

  137. 137
    SGEW says:

    [to make it clear, I was updating Voltaire into 1337]

  138. 138
    Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse says:

    Comrade Glocksman, you can make the image tag work if you hand-edit it.

    Change the opening bracket (“less than sign”) to & lt; and the closing angle bracket (“greater than sign”) to & gt; BUT make sure that you get rid of the space after the & in each one.

    If you preview and see an image, it won’t work.

    If you edit the code, and see standard HTML in preview, it should work.

  139. 139
    AkaDad says:

    One more time.

  140. 140
    t jasper parnell says:

    DougJ’s link has the video now.

  141. 141
    Comrade Glocksman says:

    I know it shouldn’t be funny, but for some reason it is. Why?

    I made it in the first 24 hours after Palin’s RNC speech and I felt that since the Nazis used the same tactics of questioning their opponents’ love of country that it was appropriate.

    McCain’s no Nazi, but his campaign is using Nazi election tactics.
    Maybe that’s why you found it darkly humorous?

  142. 142
    DougJ says:

    It was only sixteen years ago that Dan Quayle was nearly forced to resign for misspelling potato. How far our standards for VPs have fallen.

  143. 143
    AkaDad says:

    <img src=”http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd46/Patsfan55555/political-pictures-sarah-palin-john.jpg?t=1222822956″ alt=”LOLPalin” />

  144. 144
    DougJ says:

    DougJ’s link has the video now.

    Sorry you have to watch the preview for “The Mentalist” to get to the good stuff.

  145. 145

    She WILL not read any newspapers of any sort whatsoever, because they are tools of Satan. So it’s her church newsletter, and any local church-controlled papers in Alaska. She’s really insistent that this is representative of what all Americans do, and thus the correct answer.

    God knows you shouldn’t sit around knowing MORE than regular folks. That would never do. You might make decisions on something you read in some newspaper rather than doing what God’s voice in your head tells you to do.

    Don’t EVEN think I’m joking, more’s the pity. eek.

  146. 146
    Scrutinizer says:

    Comrade Jake @ 128

    You need to read the economists who have experience with national politics. The ideal plan is likely one that has no shot of getting through the House.

    Yep yep. It would be almost impossible for a more liberal bipartisan bill to get through the House if this one didn’t. The Dems could drive through a more liberal plan, but then they would well and truly own it. Part of the reason that Pelosi (who’s gotten way more shit that she deserves in this, TZ) insisted on Republican support was that she didn’t want this plan to morph into a Dem plan and a Dem problem.

    All the wanking over at the GOS about “now we can have a better plan” is ignoring political reality.

  147. 147
    wasabi gasp says:
  148. 148
    TheFountainHead says:

    She reads like Johnny V from Short Circuit.

  149. 149
    wasabi gasp says:

    Rats! What’s the trick to get the images cooking?

  150. 150
    JL says:

    Rep. Culbertson from Texas is saying that the repubs plan was better but we are in a crisis. I disagree because the problem with the economy right now, is that banks are no longer lending to banks. It’s a credit problem. When banks don’t trust other banks balance sheets, that means we are all in deep trouble.

  151. 151
    SGEW says:

    AKADad, that’s the best PaLOLin I’ve seen yet.

  152. 152
    Comrade Jake says:

    If you watch the video carefully, around the time Katie gets into the question, you can see Palin raise her eyebrows. As in “OH SHIT”.

    <img src=”http://www.thedeets.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/millionaire_idiot_fail.jpg” alt=”more Palin fail”>

  153. 153

    They want to lose.

    I don’t think they want to lose so much as they’re determined to see anything that happens as a net positive. I remember feeling the same way myself in 2004, when I was convinced that Kerry was going to pull it out. I went back recently and looked at some of my blog posts from then–damn, it was ugly.

  154. 154
    Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse says:

    wasabi: see my image tutorial at comment 138. (I LOVE comment numbers!)

    Here’s that global warming babble video that DougJ linked, with some random ad at the start.

    <embed src=’http://www.cbs.com/thunder/swf30can10cbsnews/rcpHolderCbs-3-4×3.swf’ FlashVars=’link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ecbsnews%2Ecom%2Fvideo%2Fwatch%2F%3Fid%3D4490713n&partner=cbssports&vert=News&autoPlayVid=false&releaseURL=http://release.theplatform.com/content.select?pid=whYHVKAxdexjBzXXLi1hhswWYRM89Fum&name=cbsPlayer&allowScriptAccess=always&wmode=transparent&embedded=y&scale=noscale&rv=n&salign=tl’ allowFullScreen=’true’ width=’425′ height=’324′ type=’application/x-shockwave-flash’ pluginspage=’http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer’></embed><br/><a href=’http://www.cbs.com’>Watch CBS Videos Online</a>

  155. 155

    And the Blood Countess gives a big Fuck You to:

    Anchorage Alaska Journal of Commerce
    Anchorage Anchorage Daily News
    Anchorage Anchorage Press
    Anchorage Petroleum News
    Bethel Delta Discovery
    Bethel Tundra Drums
    Cordova Cordova Times
    Delta Junction Delta News Web
    Delta Junction Delta Wind
    Dillingham Bristol Bay Times
    Dutch Harbor Dutch Harbor Fisherman
    Eagle River Alaska Star
    Ester The Ester Republic
    Fairbanks Fairbanks Daily News-Miner
    Fairbanks Sun Star
    Girdwood Turnagain Times
    Gustavus Fairweather Reporter
    Haines Chilkat Valley News
    Homer Homer News
    Homer Homer Tribune
    Juneau Capital City Weekly
    Juneau Juneau Empire
    Kenai Peninsula Clarion
    Ketchikan Ketchikan Daily News
    Ketchikan Local Paper
    Ketchikan Sitnews
    Kodiak Kodiak Daily Mirror
    Kotzebue Arctic Sounder
    Nome The Nome Nugget
    Petersburg Petersburg Pilot
    Seldovia Seldovia Gazette
    Seward Seward Phoenix Log
    Skagway Skagway News
    Talkeetna Talkeetna Times
    Thorne Bay Southeast Alaska’s Island News
    Valdez Valdez Star
    Wasilla Frontiersman
    Wrangell Wrangell Sentinel

  156. 156
    Conservatively Liberal says:

    Maybe that’s why you found it darkly humorous?

    You nailed it. I know that they are not Nazis either but they can not deny that that tactic, along with some others they use, is just wrong. Questioning the patriotism of any fellow countryman should be off limits. People should be free to disagree (or agree) without being called on their love of their country.

    When discourse devolves to the point that it has, people are divided and turned against one another.

  157. 157
    Annette says:

    Just breezing through and testing a couple of tweaks as we are T-2 days to the VP debate I have nightmares of the servers melting into puddles on the NOC floor.

    Pay no attention to the geek behind the curtain.

    Current stat:

    [root@curry ~]# w
    21:15:00 up 8 days, 9:17, 3 users, load average: 0.69, 0.90, 1.41

    Queries per second: 37.12
    Apache processes: 183

    Test test for refresh table sort rate…

  158. 158
    Polish the Guillotines (formerly FLILF Hunter) says:

    Homer Homer News

    Mmmm…. News….

  159. 159
    Scrutinizer says:

    SGEW @ 137

    W3 n33d 3c0n0mic h4xx0r?

  160. 160
    colleeniem says:

    Totally and completely OT, but I’m LIVID, and I need help from the smart, snarky people here.

    Can someone tell me if the repubs had a veto-proof majority in the senate in May 2006? The house only needs a majority, right?
    I’ll ‘splain a little bit.

    I got a reprehensible email from a friend of mine, who has some good qualities, but is a 28% er. It contains a powerpoint presentation regarding who to blame for this financial crisis. While it didn’t cite the CRA act, it basically is partisan claptrap about St. John McCain the Saint, citing his Federal Housing Enterprise Reform Act as what could have prevented everything, (which got “scuttled by the dems”, natch) and also states Raines is as an Obama adviser. Here’s the sources, copied verbatim from the end of the document:

    Congressional Record, 5/25/06
    “Hannity & Colmes,” Fox News, 9/16-9/17/08
    Herald Tribune, 4/18/08
    New York Times, 9/13/03
    http://www.govtrack.com, 9/17/08

    Prof. Dennis Jantz, 2008

    I would totally write this crap off, normally. I see this stuff has made some blog rounds after some “The” google use and I can’t find a scholarly article written by a “Professor Dennis Jantz.” I mean, it’s all bullshit, a real prof. would cite sources properly.

    I’m mad and writing on screed on a weeknight, however, because it was sent by a senior fucking military officer (Colonel) to some corporal (the email chain is visible). That corporal forwarded it to others. It made it up to the mid level officers, who are using their government email to forward it to people like me (on my personal email, because I asked this friend not to send partisan shit like this to me at a .mil address).
    I know this goes on a lot, but people are acting like it is legitimate.
    This is against the fucking law, and if I were better at all these new fancy tools, I would link the whole powerpoint, so you could all see and be outraged.
    I’m just debunking all I can and reading this person the g-d riot (Hatch) act in a reply email.

    Also OT–so, do you think Anchorage Daily News will be upset with their non-plug by their governor? I’m sure they cover SOME national issues in a shallow depth. This won’t help Palin one bit :).

  161. 161
    JGabriel says:

    The Couric/Palin Interviews, Summarized:

    Couric: Specifically?

    Palin: Ya know, I really hate that fucking word.

    .

  162. 162
    wasabi gasp says:

    &lt img src=”http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/7716/acevedo20mccaince4.jpg” /&gt

  163. 163
    Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse says:

    Palin: Ya know, I really hate that fucking word.

    WIN.

  164. 164
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    All the wanking over at the GOS about “now we can have a better plan” is ignoring political reality.

    The alternative is ignoring plain old reality.

  165. 165
    AkaDad says:

    that’s the best PaLOLin I’ve seen yet.

    Agreed. I heart teh intertubes.

  166. 166
    wasabi gasp says:

    < img src=”http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/7716/acevedo20mccaince4.jpg” />

  167. 167
    Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse says:

    (Sorry wasabi: each of the codes need that semi-colon at the end. It may have been hard to see. Check your preview: if it shows the correct angle brackets, then this hack worked.)

  168. 168
    SGEW says:

    W3 n33d 3c0n0mic h4xx0r?

    Actually, upon further thought, I was using more LOLspeak than 1337, to be honest.

    And, no. Ceiling cat can has no fix for our economiez. Basement cat now has our bukkit.

    kthxbai

  169. 169
    Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse says:

    OR — if you copied and pasted anything with smart codes, it won’t work. You need to use straight quotation marks.

  170. 170
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    <img src=”http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/7716/acevedo20mccaince4.jpg”/>

  171. 171
    Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse says:

    ARGH — I meant, no smart quotes (slanty or curly), just the standard type-manually-in-the-box straight quotes.

  172. 172
    Comrade The Moar You Know says:

    <img src=”http://i526.photobucket.com/albums/cc342/arbiterusa/PowerMetal.jpg”>

    Wasabi Gasp: here’s the code I used for this:

    & lt;img src=”http://www.imagehostofyourchoice.com/PowerMetal.jpg”& gt;

    Remove the spaces after the apostrophes, insert the location of your image (I liek Photobucket) and go to town.

  173. 173
    wasabi gasp says:

    Thanks, Comrade Mary.

    But, I suck.

  174. 174
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    <img src=http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/7716/acevedo20mccaince4.jpg>

  175. 175
    wasabi gasp says:

    <img src=”http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/7716/acevedo20mccaince4.jpg”>

  176. 176
    Comrade Jake says:

    Mary, you are one good egg for helping people out.

  177. 177
    wasabi gasp says:

    I suck less! Yay!

  178. 178
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    Sorry Wasabi, just trying to learn; didn’t have my own image.

  179. 179
    Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse says:

    Anyone copying and pasting Moar’s code, DEFINITELY retype the quotation marks. Slanty or curly smartypants quotes will screw you every time. But yeah, as he said, remove the spaces after the ampersands (&) and you’re golden, which is also a metal.

  180. 180
    wasabi gasp says:

    Thank you, non-suckers!

  181. 181
    SGEW says:

    I do not like the direction this is going.

  182. 182
    Comrade Jake says:

    Thanks wasabi. You just gave me fucking nightmares for the rest of the week.

  183. 183
    Stevenovitch says:

    So… because we’ve established that a better plan isn’t a political reality, that means that the validity of the current plan is immaterial?

    Krugman is sending mixed signals. Signal one: we need to do this. Signal two: this won’t work at all.

    He does mention that he’s talking about the Paulson plan as originally sold, but I must have missed the part where the current plan isn’t just the Paulson plan plus some toothless oversight and meaningless “progressive” concessions. They are still planning on buying up bad assets right?

    Given the choice between an uber-fucked economy and an uber-fucked economy plus an extra $700 billion in federal debt, I think I choose the former, at least in that case it’ll be feasible to get some social programs passed.

  184. 184
    Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse says:

    AAAAAHHH! I regret helping you little jerks now.

    Can’t sleep. POW will eat me.

  185. 185
    TheFountainHead says:

    i r testing imujiz.

    <img src=”http://gedblog.com/wp-content/uploads/palinvp_bingo.png”>

  186. 186
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    <script>msgbox(“This could really be abused.”)</script>

  187. 187
    John McCan't says:

    i think there should be a department of jesus & those people can run for “jesus” and the honor of dying on the cross for america’s sins. that would put a quick stop to this crap.

  188. 188
    SGEW says:

    Given the choice between an uber-fucked economy and an uber-fucked economy plus an extra $700 billion in federal debt, I think I choose the former . . . .

    I think that Krugman, et. al., are putting it more along the lines of a choice between an uber-fucked economy + $700bil versus a super-duper-ultra-mega-holy-cow-we’re-fucked economy.

    If you’ll excuse the technical language

  189. 189
    Scrutinizer says:

    Palin: Ya know, I really hate that fucking word.

    I’d give a million to see this.

    (Wow. Kucinich and House Republicans on the same side.)

    And, no. Ceiling cat can has no fix for our economiez. Basement cat now has our bukkit.

    New plan: Lock myself in my room with my Faye Valentine/Annette Haven/Abigail Clayton/Kandi Barbour/Melissa Melendez/Siobhan Hunter collections and stay inside for the next couple of years.

  190. 190
    TheFountainHead says:

    i r fail.

    <img src=”http://gedblog.com/wp-content/uploads/palinvp_bingo.png”>

  191. 191
    gbear says:

    & lt;img src=”http://www.ratemyeverything.net/image/1219/0/Bunny_with_a_Pancake_on_Its_Head.ashx”& gt;

  192. 192
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    <font color=red>Testing

  193. 193
    Товарищ НеинтереснаяСобака says:

    Maddow’s show is surreal tonight. Both the Republican congressman who voted against the bailout and Dennis Kucinich made very similar arguments for their vote, and both expressed their support for raising the FDIC insurance limit as part of the solution. Their ideas diverged from there, but it was very odd to see Dennis Kucinich reach out to the Republicans in congress in a spirit of bipartisanship. Very odd.

  194. 194
    gbear says:

    OK, so I need to practice…

  195. 195
    Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse says:

    gbear, you just need to get rid of the space after each of the & at the beginning and end of the code.

  196. 196
    TheFountainHead says:

    This thread is like a Palin answer.

  197. 197
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    <font color=red>Cool, all my shit is gonna be red now. Try to ignore me and I’ll change it to flashing. All yer dialogue are belong to me.

  198. 198
    Stevenovitch says:

    I think that Krugman, et. al., are putting it more along the lines of a choice between an uber-fucked economy + $700bil versus a super-duper-ultra-mega-holy-cow-we’re-fucked economy.

    Not sure I read that post….

  199. 199
    TheFountainHead says:

    Sarah Palin: “I’m not going to blame all of man’s activities on climate change.”

    Wait…..wha?

    No, seriously folks. She said that.

  200. 200
    Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse says:

    D’oh! TheFountainHead, you’ve got it: Palin doesn’t speak English, she speaks rebus.

    (You’re using deprecated FONT tags, JSF. I shall now shun you.)

  201. 201
    gbear says:

    <img src=”http://www.ratemyeverything.net/image/1219/0/Bunny_with_a_Pancake_on_Its_Head.ashx”>

  202. 202
    Comrade The Moar You Know says:

    gbear – step one:

    pull the spaces out after the apostrophes.

    step two:

    replace the quotation marks with ones you type in from your keyboard.

    It should work then.

  203. 203
    Товарищ НеинтереснаяСобака says:

    You gotta type “&­lt;”, not “& lt;”.

    Cookie for anyone who knows how I did that.

  204. 204
  205. 205
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    (You’re using deprecated FONT tags, JSF. I shall now shun you.)

    Would inline CSS make you love me again?

  206. 206
    Stevenovitch says:

    <img src=”http://www.ratemyeverything.net/image/1219/0/Bunny_with_a_Pancake_on_Its_Head.ashx”>

  207. 207
    Scrutinizer says:

    Listening to all this “Lower the expectations for Palin” crap in the media, I recall Toobin last night and Zawhatshisname, who both said that this isn’t a game, it’s not about lowering the bar. It’s about whether this woman is qualified to step into McCain’s place if he were elected and was incapacitated. Judging her on any other basis is wrong.

    Although Ana Marie Cox just said “Maybe she could just be quiet Thursday night. It could be like the John Cage Memorial Debate.”

  208. 208
    Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse says:

    “&­lt;”, not “& lt;”

    Chocolate chip, please and thank you.

    (Now watch this not work).

  209. 209
    Comrade The Moar You Know says:

    Moar than one of us can play that game.

    This works in preview, I’m gonna be pissed if it doesn’t work otherwise.

  210. 210
    Comrade Jake says:

    So… because we’ve established that a better plan isn’t a political reality, that means that the validity of the current plan is immaterial?

    Krugman is sending mixed signals.

    I think you’re reinforcing my point though. Krugman recognizes the practical political issues, but he’s still going to be critical of the plan. That’s why he’s written that it’s not very good.

    People should feel free to criticize the plan all they want, but proposing alternatives without recognizing the political limitations is pissing in the wind. We are simply not likely to get a bill that makes lots of progressives happy. That doesn’t mean that such a bill wouldn’t be the best way to go here.

  211. 211
    gbear says:

    <img src=http://www.ratemyeverything.net/image/1219/0/Bunny_with_a_Pancake_on_Its_Head.ashx”&gt

  212. 212
    Ash Can says:

    FountainHead: Bingo, hell. That’s a VP debate drinking game in the making. Add the requirements to chug if either Biden or Ifill facepalm or LOL at anything Palin says, and to finish the bottle/case if Palin bursts into tears, and it’s good to go.

    In other news, Fox News dipshit pulls “fair and balanced” out of ass, gets laughed at.

  213. 213
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    Both the Republican congressman who voted against the bailout and Dennis Kucinich made very similar arguments for their vote, and both expressed their support for raising the FDIC insurance limit as part of the solution.

    Why is raising the FDIC insured limits part of their solution?? Because they know that not passing a comprehensive rescue package is going to lead to more and more bank failures. Not much of a solution.

  214. 214
    JL says:

    Maddow’s show is surreal tonight. Both the Republican congressman who voted against the bailout and Dennis Kucinich made very similar arguments for their vote, and both expressed their support for raising the FDIC insurance limit as part of the solution. Their ideas diverged from there, but it was very odd to see Dennis Kucinich reach out to the Republicans in congress in a spirit of bipartisanship. Very odd.

    The republican culbertson wants to change an accounting rule that will hide the transperancy in banks balance sheets. That way banks will trust each other and the credit markets won’t freeze. He’s nuts!!!! The problem with Kucinich’s view is IMO we are in a credit crisis and just bailing out homeowners won’t help at this point.

  215. 215
    JGabriel says:

    The Fountainhead:

    Sarah Palin:
    I’m not going to blame all of man’s activities on climate change.

    No, seriously folks. She said that.

    Yeah, I kind of boggled at that one too. In a way, that’s almost better than “Reducing taxes… has gotta be a part of any tax reductions.”

    Almost.

    .

  216. 216
    Comrade The Moar You Know says:

    shoulda known better:

    <p><font color=blue>Moar than one can play that game.</font></p>

  217. 217
    Scrutinizer says:

    This works in preview, I’m gonna be pissed if it doesn’t work otherwise.

    Preview is not your friend.

  218. 218
    Stevenovitch says:

    I see someone else is trying to abuse the javascript potential of this comment system. You guys should probably fix that….

  219. 219
    gbear says:

    <img src=”http://www.ratemyeverything.net/image/1219/0/Bunny_with_a_Pancake_on_Its_Head.ashx”>

  220. 220
    gbear says:

    Now I can die a happy man.

  221. 221
    TheFountainHead says:

    finish the bottle/case if Palin bursts into tears, and it’s good to go.

    Shit, if that happens I’m stripping naked and taking the bottle out into the street to dance to Norman Greenbaum’s Spirit in the Sky which will naturally be playing at full volume through my window.

  222. 222
    Comrade Jake says:

    I love this blog.

  223. 223
    Annette says:

    colleeniem @ 160

    Found an instructor named Dennis Jantz at UNLV and also a comment on a DOE plan related to nuclear waste from a Dennis and Claudia Jantz in 2001 – in Nevada (see this).

    Other than that, nothing on the purported author in the academic realm. Didn’t go through reading a whole lot of it, but I think this part is particularly amusing:

    2004
    An OMB investigation finds massive fraudulent bookkeeping at Fannie Mae.
    False numbers triggered executive bonuses every year.
    Congress holds no hearings, no one goes to jail, or is punished.
    WHY NOT?

    I seem to recall that both the House and Senate were R-leaning from 2003-2005. Yet another example of whoever dreams this stuff up shooting themselves in the foot.

  224. 224
    Scrutinizer says:

    People should feel free to criticize the plan all they want, but proposing alternatives without recognizing the political limitations is pissing in the wind. We are simply not likely to get a bill that makes lots of progressives happy. That doesn’t mean that such a bill wouldn’t be the best way to go here.

    Which is why the MUP is saying that we need to take care of the money part now, and work on the other provisions later. We have time to add bankruptcy relief, mortgage relief, and that stuff later. We need to address the questionably valued paper now. The problem isn’t going to wait on us to make up our minds and to chase down the “best bill”.

  225. 225
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    Haha.. u did it Stevenovitch. Now yer in trouble.

  226. 226
    Stevenovitch says:

    yeah uh, that’s really dangerous. Should fix ASAP.

  227. 227
    wasabi gasp says:

    Sarah Palin’s resume is in Comic Sans.

  228. 228
    Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse says:

    I saw a blank JS alert, then I saw a bunny with a pancake on its head. Dude, that’s evil.

  229. 229
    Scrutinizer says:

    The page better damn well shut up.

  230. 230
    Comrade Jake says:

    I just had a yellow-triangle with an exclamation point inside appear when loading this page. Which one of you fuckers pulled that off?

  231. 231
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    I can see an application- when a troll shows up:

    TROLL ALERT! DO NOT FEED!

  232. 232
    Stevenovitch says:

    sorry, just seeing if it works. By the by, you might want to log out of any web apps (g-mail) you use while loading this page.

  233. 233
    TheFountainHead says:

    Don’t know if this was already linked above, but this 30 second video of a Faux News reporter finding a “split decision” on the race in Eastern Pennsylvania is pretty amusing.

  234. 234
    Scrutinizer says:

    NoScript is my friend.

  235. 235
    Comrade The Moar You Know says:

    OK, that last was lame. This might be more interesting.

    <p><span style=”text-decoration:blink”>BLINK TEST</span><p>

    <p><font size=5 face>BIGGER.</font></p>

  236. 236
    Scrutinizer says:

    Blinking is teh lame.

  237. 237
    wasabi gasp says:

    My comment was supposed to be in Comic Sans as well.

  238. 238
    sistermoon says:

    User Penman, On Sarah Palin (from Daily Kos):

    She’s the love child of Forrest Gump and Phyllis Schlafly

  239. 239
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    She’s the love child of Forrest Gump and Phyllis Schlafly

    Ned Flanders in a dress.

  240. 240
    JGabriel says:

    Comrade Jake:

    People should feel free to criticize the plan all they want, but proposing alternatives without recognizing the political limitations is pissing in the wind.

    Well, fine, let’s discuss the political implications.

    1. No matter what, the Republicans are going to attack the Democrats – which they proved with the ad they started airing this morning blaming the D’s for a bill that hadn’t even passed.

    2. No matter what, the Democrats are going to own the solution. Especially if Obama wins – but if McCain wins, he’ll spend his first term blaming everything he doesn’t do on the “Democrat Bailout Bill”.

    3. If Obama wins, the Democrats will own the rescue – whether it succeeds or fails. Let’s make sure it succeeds.

    4. That means, politicallly, passing a bill that is progressive, something along the lines that Roubini, Reich, Krugman, et. al., have been pushing. Maybe the HLOC/HOME type of program that Roubini suggests can wait until January, but the sooner the better and I’d rather see it go through now while we have the leverage.

    5. The R’s won’t vote for that? Fuck’em. See 1 & 2 above. Push it through on D votes.

    6. Paulson will hate it; Bush won’t sign it. Again, fuck’em. Again, see 1 & 2 above. The Dems will have to live with this no matter what. Let’s make sure it’s something we can live with. And if Bush/Paulson want the funds, if they don’t sign it, they’ll just be proving they didn’t need that much money in the first place.

    So, I don’t see the need to beg Republicans for their support, or compromise with them when they’ll just vote against the bill anyway; they’ve already shown, as recently as this morning, that they are bad faith actors on this issue (as they are on all issues).

    .

  241. 241
    Polish the Guillotines (formerly FLILF Hunter) says:

    Palin interview in Alaska Frontiersman.

    An email Q&A. Christ on a caribou. Even with an opportunity to edit and fine-tune, she can barely put a coherent thought together.

    Pay special attention to the answers to questions 11, 12, and 13. Compare and contrast to all the rest of the answers. Guaranteed, these ones were written by McCain’s campaign lawyers.

  242. 242
    Comrade Fedorovich Stuck says:

    Congress holds no hearings, no one goes to jail, or is punished.
    WHY NOT?

    This kind of talk makes my little virtual heart go pitter patter. More please!

  243. 243
    wasabi gasp says:

    <font face=”Comic Sans MS”>Hello, Tacky</font>

  244. 244
    Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse says:

    It’s all fun and games until someone breaks out the blink tag.
    <object width=”425″ height=”344″><param name=”movie” value=”http://www.youtube.com/v/T45r1bh0N1k&hl=en&fs=1″></param><param name=”allowFullScreen” value=”true”></param><embed src=”http://www.youtube.com/v/T45r1bh0N1k&hl=en&fs=1″ type=”application/x-shockwave-flash” allowfullscreen=”true” width=”425″ height=”344″></embed></object>

  245. 245
    Comrade The Moar You Know says:

    <center style=”font-size: 60px; text-decoration: blink;”>
    <div style=”color: red;”>BALLOON JUICE</div>
    <div style=”color: orange;”>BALLOON JUICE </div>
    <div style=”color: yellow;”>BALLOON JUICE</div>
    <div style=”color: green;”>BALLOON JUICE</div>
    <div style=”color: blue;”>BALLOON JUICE </div>
    <div style=”color: indigo;”>BALLOON JUICE </div>
    <div style=”color: purple;”>BALLOON JUICE</div>
    </center>

    I’ll stop now.

  246. 246
    Conservatively Liberal says:

    I just had a yellow-triangle with an exclamation point inside appear when loading this page. Which one of you fuckers pulled that off?

    all ur intertubes r annette’s

  247. 247
    Comrade NonyNony says:

    Why is raising the FDIC insured limits part of their solution?? Because they know that not passing a comprehensive rescue package is going to lead to more and more bank failures. Not much of a solution.

    NONONONONONO. No. Just. No.

    The reason for the raise in the limits is because there’s a “silent” bank run going on right now. People with assets over 100K in the bank are removing them down to the insured limit. And this mostly means small business owners. There are a lot of small businesses out there, and they’re not keeping more than 100K in the banks right now. Raising the limits on an insured deposit would leave more capital in the bank, which would mean that they wouldn’t be as worried about clenching tightly to the capital they have, which would get them to lend it out again and keep the credit markets moving.

    Add into that the fact that the FDIC is one of the few government entities that people still trust at the moment (probably mostly because they’ve been doing a yeoman’s job of making these bank rescues move smoothly and with a minimum of fuss for depositors), and you end up with a very good idea to inject some “trust” back into the system. And if you believe that a big part of the problem is a lack of trust (as many economists do) then you have a piece of a good solution here.

    This is also the part of Peter DeFazio and the progressive caucus’s new proposal that they’re floating right now that I really like – let the buyout be administered by the FDIC – NOT TREASURY. People don’t trust Treasury right now. People trust the FDIC. If you want to get past the fact that Paulson poisoned the well by demanding the money be given to him with no accountability, one way to fix that is to remove him from the equation and put the FDIC in charge instead.

  248. 248
    Comrade The Moar You Know says:

    Aww, shit, I think I just raped the page width. Sorry guys.

  249. 249
    Conservatively Liberal says:

    Ahhh, the freedom of HTML expression. John and Annette are so good to us. ;)

  250. 250
    BH-Buck says:

    Gonna be hell to pay when John sees this mess.

  251. 251
    colleeniem says:

    Annette @ 224, you’re the best!

    I found that same prof, from the writing department. I was thinking about writing the head of the department an email, to make sure their instructors are aware of proper citation, at the very least.
    I should not be surprised that crap like is getting passed around my work circles, with no thought to its logic or merit, despite the illegality. It still makes me sad though.
    Sigh.

  252. 252
    Leo says:

    He does mention that he’s talking about the Paulson plan as originally sold, but I must have missed the part where the current plan isn’t just the Paulson plan plus some toothless oversight and meaningless “progressive” concessions. They are still planning on buying up bad assets right?

    You’re right, you did miss it. Krugman is drawing a distinction between the two plans based on one thing: equity warrants.

    His argument is that merely buying toxic assets at their current values won’t alleviate the crisis; we need to inject capital into the crippled firms. If that’s the case, we will need to overpay for assets in order for the plan to work. But, of course, if we overpay we are essentially giving money away to Wall Street, and we should get something in return. That something is profit participation via preferred stock. So Krugman’s position since early on has been that the plan was acceptable (however imperfect) so long as it provided some avenue to make cash-for-equity deals. Paulson’s proposal didn’t include that, but the one that failed did.

    Now you can agree or disagree with the argument, but try to fucking understand it first.

  253. 253

    This is a test…

    Bite Me

  254. 254
    TheFountainHead says:

    Great, now I’m going to have nightmares about giant blinking balloons and orange juice.

  255. 255
    Ash Can says:

    Yes, FountainHead, I linked to that in the comment you commented on. ;) But not a problem — not only does that video bear repeating, but now I have “Spirit in the Sky” going through my head, complete with images of naked street-dancing. Too funny.

    In still other news, one of Sarah Palin’s best friends is gay. She’s so cutting-edge, that gal…

  256. 256
  257. 257

    SEIZURE

    SEIZURE

    SEIZURE

    SEIZURE

    SEIZURE

    SEIZURE

    SEIZURE

    U had sum kode. And I stealded it.

  258. 258

    Fuck, what happened?

    Grrrr.

  259. 259
    TheFountainHead says:

    Sorry about that, Ash Can, I’m better at posting indiscriminately than reading thoroughly. And just for fun, can we find a woman that Palin slept with at one of her six colleges? I mean, there’s gotta be at least one, right?

  260. 260
    Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse says:

    Hmm. I thought I had noticed that comment numbering was a little wobbly, but now I can see for sure that what colleeniem (@251) called Annette’s comment @224 actually shows up to me as comment 223. Is this to be expected while settling in, or is it one of those little vagaries we’ll have to live with?

  261. 261
  262. 262
    Annette says:

    colleeniem @ 251

    I doubt that Dennis Jantz is attached to this in any manner. Too bad it’s a little long for the folks at Snopes to go through. I wonder just which “Herald Tribune” that cite might be…

    Party divisions here.

  263. 263
    Comrade Jake says:

    the sooner the better and I’d rather see it go through now while we have the leverage.

    Sorry, but this is delusional at best. If you think the Dems know how to use any leverage they might have, you haven’t been paying attention.

  264. 264
    Stevenovitch says:

    Now you can agree or disagree with the argument, but try to fucking understand it first.

    I have been trying to understand it. Excuse me for not speaking economics, or understanding what the fuck an equity warrant is.

  265. 265
    Scott H says:

    @255

    And she is not my “gay friend,” she is one of my best friends, who happens to have made a choice that isn’t a choice that I have made.

    Oh, really, Sarah? What choice was it you made? Fans of Girls Gone Wild want to know…

  266. 266
    Scrutinizer says:

    1. No matter what, the Republicans are going to attack the Democrats – which they proved with the ad they started airing this morning blaming the D’s for a bill that hadn’t even passed.

    2. No matter what, the Democrats are going to own the solution. Especially if Obama wins – but if McCain wins, he’ll spend his first term blaming everything he doesn’t do on the “Democrat Bailout Bill”.

    No. No. No.

    This bill is unpopular with the electorate as it is. The only way that Dems can hold their seats after voting for this bill is if we have a roughly 50-50 Dem-Rep split in votes for the bill. Anything less is a guaranteed loss of a majority in the House. Pelosi is trying to provide political cover for us by demanding Republican participation on a plan to fix a Republican fuckup. Yes, we could muscle a progressive plan through; and then we could kiss goodbye to getting anything done in the congress during Obama’s Presidency. Ir you be just like Clinton’s presidency after 1994.

    You do not want to see that.

  267. 267
    wasabi gasp says:

    <img src=”http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/3702/insectly9.gif”>

  268. 268
    Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse says:

    You gonna eat that, wasabi?

  269. 269
    TheFountainHead says:

    That bug is tracing the logic of a Sarah Palin answer.

  270. 270
    Scrutinizer says:

    I think that the title of this thread means something different from what all y’all think it means.

  271. 271
    Scrutinizer says:

    And now there’s a fucking bug on my fucking monitor.

  272. 272
    gbear says:

    Is that a bug or a feature?

  273. 273
    Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse says:

    OK, gbear wins the thread.

    Can we get a new one now, please? I promise not to break it.

  274. 274
    ElBlot says:

    We need to push for a Progressive alternate bill – I heard one was coming earlier but I have not seen it. Right now Wall Street is threatening us and we need to just walk away from the Bush-Paulson-Frank proposal.

  275. 275
    JGabriel says:

    Comrade Jake:

    Sorry, but this is delusional at best. If you think the Dems know how to use any leverage they might have, you haven’t been paying attention.

    And they’ll never learn to use their leverage, or that it’s expected of them, until we demand it.

    Yes, there are times when compromise is necessary and should be pursued. I don’t think I’m being impractical, naive, or delusional here; this is simply not one of those times. All efforts at compromise lead to the same outcome: a crap bill that the Dems get blamed for anyway.

    There’s just no reason NOT to try for something better, especially given the way the R’s have telegraphed their bad intentions this time around.

    .

  276. 276
    Comrade Jake says:

    We’re like fucking kids in the candy store here. When does the porn show up?

  277. 277
    TheFountainHead says:

    Is that a bug or a feature?

    Now THAT deserves a rim-shot.

  278. 278
    Comrade NonyNony says:

    Excuse me for not speaking economics, or understanding what the fuck an equity warrant is.

    Ahem:

    An equity warrant is an option to buy the common stock of the debt issuer at a predetermined price on or before a predetermined expiry date.

    Found by using the nifty search string “define: equity warrant” on the Google.

    But you’re excused for not speaking economics. Or more accurately, for not speaking High Finance. Which is kind of like High Elvish but more evil.

  279. 279
    Annette says:

    Hmm. I thought I had noticed that comment numbering was a little wobbly, but now I can see for sure that what colleeniem (@251) called Annette’s comment @224 actually shows up to me as comment 223. Is this to be expected while settling in, or is it one of those little vagaries we’ll have to live with?

    Sorry, that would be me removing comments with embedded nasty stuff that causes things like…javascript alerts. The resort after that renumbers the comments in the table associated with the post.

  280. 280
    wasabi gasp says:

    The first time I ever saw that thing I thought it was a gnat on my monitor.

    I tried to shoo it away. {{{blush}}}

  281. 281
    Stevenovitch says:

    An equity warrant is an option to buy the common stock of the debt issuer at a predetermined price on or before a predetermined expiry date.

    See, now it all makes perfect thanks. Thankssomuch. With google, we can all be VP.

    /snark

  282. 282
    Scrutinizer says:

    The resort after that renumbers the comments in the table associated with the post.

    Did anyone else find that vaguely erotic?

  283. 283
    TheFountainHead says:

    Did anyone else find that vaguely erotic?

    You don’t have too many hours logged with Sql do you?

  284. 284
    Scrutinizer says:

    the Bush-Paulson-Frank proposal.

    Spun just like a Republican.

  285. 285
    Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse says:

    Ah, thanks, Annette.

    Almost on topic: Dan Savage wants to be Sarah’s gay friend.

    <object width=”425″ height=”344″><param name=”movie” value=”http://www.youtube.com/v/leq3ydk5Ug4&hl=en&fs=1″></param><param name=”allowFullScreen” value=”true”></param><embed src=”http://www.youtube.com/v/leq3ydk5Ug4&hl=en&fs=1″ type=”application/x-shockwave-flash” allowfullscreen=”true” width=”425″ height=”344″></embed></object>

  286. 286

    wasabi gasp, if that had been a house centipede you’d owe me a new monitor and quite possibly a window.

    And no, I’m not ashamed to say those fuckers make me leap sideways.

  287. 287
    Scrutinizer says:

    You don’t have too many hours logged with Sql do you?

    No, just Faye, and Annette, and Abigail, and…

  288. 288
    Dennis - SGMM says:

    It’s all fun and games until someone breaks out the blink tag.

    I found that it worked in Preview early this afternoon and mentioned that in another thread. Having coded HTML in various plain text editors way back in the day and lived through the flaming JAVA skulls era as well I forsook the temptation to use the blink-weapon. Besides, it doesn’t work in Lynx – that’s how old I am.

  289. 289
    BLINK TEST says:

    Get off my lawn

  290. 290
    Comrade NonyNony says:

    We need to push for a Progressive alternate bill – I heard one was coming earlier but I have not seen it. Right now Wall Street is threatening us and we need to just walk away from the Bush-Paulson-Frank proposal.

    There’s a summary proposal on Peter DeFazio’s web page over here. I’d like to hear what the experts think because this has a few things that I like (like the fact that it’s based on a program that has worked in the past, works to ensure that tax dollars spent out get repaid, and the FDIC administers the program instead of Treasury).

  291. 291
    Comrade Jake says:

    And they’ll never learn to use their leverage, or that it’s expected of them, until we demand it.

    I totally agree with you buddy, I just don’t see it happening. The Dems represent a fairly diverse constituency, and there’s not enough that’s progressive to put the necessary pressure on them. I’m all for trying, but I’m not going to get my hopes up.

    Yes, there are times when compromise is necessary and should be pursued. I don’t think I’m being impractical, naive, or delusional here; this is simply not one of those times. All efforts at compromise lead to the same outcome: a crap bill that the Dems get blamed for anyway.
     
    There’s just no reason NOT to try for something better, especially given the way the R’s have telegraphed their bad intentions this time around.

    I’m not certain the Dems are going to get blamed for this, honestly. Most of the public has already decided that the situation is the GOP’s fault to begin with.

    Nobody’s saying “don’t try for something better.” I’m just saying that the political reality doesn’t support it being successful. But sure, they should by all means try.

  292. 292
    colleeniem says:

    Annette, my arsenal is awesome now! Thanks again.

  293. 293

    Oh boy, the circus is in town

    Waht’s this button do. Hee. Makes it big heehee

  294. 294
    gbear says:

    annette, can you add this feature?

    <img src=”http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/listen_to_yourself.png”>

  295. 295
    Scrutinizer says:

    Besides, it doesn’t work in Lynx – that’s how old I am.

    I go back to Linux 0.9, all command line stuff, no X; good times. Actually, I go back to IBM 360/70 and PDP 11 with RSTS-E (pre VMS). And card decks!

    Puters aren’t as much fun as they used to be.

    -Crotchety Old Guy

  296. 296
    Stevenovitch says:

    Were the javascript posts just removed or has the issue been fixed?

  297. 297
    Leo says:

    Sorry, Stevenovitch, that was unnecessary. I’m just really damned frustrated right now. Our political system is totally incapable of processing and responding to this mess in anything approaching a rational way, and it is driving me a bit crazy.

  298. 298
    TheFountainHead says:

    Heh. This is laminated and tacked to my wall.

    <img src=”http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png”>

  299. 299
    Scrutinizer says:

    Heh. This is laminated and tacked to my wall.

    Hanging on my bulletin board right now too.

  300. 300
    Annette says:

    Comrade Fedorovich Stuck @ 242:

    The full chain email is here.

  301. 301

    If this shit only works in IE I may have discovered something lamer than McPalin.

  302. 302
    Comrade Jake says:

    Sorry, Stevenovitch, that was unnecessary. I’m just really damned frustrated right now. Our political system is totally incapable of processing and responding to this mess in anything approaching a rational way, and it is driving me a bit crazy.

    Ditto.

    In other news, it appears that our National Debt is set to cross $10 Trillion tomorrow. Good times.

  303. 303
    Dennis - SGMM says:

    Puters aren’t as much fun as they used to be.

    COBOL, PASCAL and FORTRAN. I’m a lousy typist so I must have ruined several trees worth of 80 column punch cards when I was starting out.

  304. 304
    Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse says:

    Heh. This is laminated and tacked to my wall.
     
    Hanging on my bulletin board right now too.

    Tattooed on my — OK, not really.

  305. 305
    JGabriel says:

    The Fountinhead:

    Heh. This is laminated and tacked to my wall.

    I actually use that one as my desktop wallpaper (centered).

    .

  306. 306
    Ash Can says:

    FountainHead: No apologies necessary. Post away. :) As for Palin and her gal pals, if someone from the distinguished gov’s past were to appear with videos in hand for an October surprise, I would declare this presidential campaign officially cosmic.

  307. 307
    gbear says:

    For the five people who don’t know about it, here’s the link to the site with those cartoons. Worthy of a bookmark.

  308. 308
    Martin says:

    annette, can you add this feature?

    What would be the point? Either nothing would ever get posted here or everything would. I’m not really sure which, but I’m almost positive it would be one of those two outcomes.

  309. 309
    Annette says:

    gbear @ 293:

    That would be something for John and the designer to decide to incorporate into the site as a whole.

    Stevenovitch @ 295:

    Removed, for now. The comment as is in this template doesn’t appear to sanitize anything, which is a major problem, but the code is royally…messed up (I do see a snippet of what appears to be a half-assed attempt, but I also need to dig backwards and see if this is actually used in the templating or just a red herring). It is something I’ll pass on to whoever is resdesigning, though, since malicious POSTs are no laughing matter even with all the fun everyone is having right now.

  310. 310

    The full chain email is here.

    Yea, wingnuts are latching on to Fannie an Freddy trying to lay cause for the meltdown on dems . I could be wrong, but I believe very few of the bad sub prime mortgages that are driving this catastrophe were done by Fan and Fred. The real culprit is systematic dereg. especially the Gramm law in 1999 throwing the door open for mischief by investment banks.

  311. 311
    gbear says:

    It is something I’ll pass on to whoever is resdesigning, though, since malicious POSTs are no laughing matter even with all the fun everyone is having right now

    Tell that to MyIQ.

  312. 312
    TheFountainHead says:

    Removed, for now. The comment as is in this template doesn’t appear to sanitize anything, which is a major problem, but the code is royally…messed up (I do see a snippet of what appears to be a half-assed attempt, but I also need to dig backwards and see if this is actually used in the templating or just a red herring). It is something I’ll pass on to whoever is resdesigning, though, since malicious POSTs are no laughing matter even with all the fun everyone is having right now.

    But didn’t Eric at RedState tell us just last year that Libruls had awesomesauce websites cause we’d hijacked all the computer programmers? (read: thinking peoples)

  313. 313
    Scrutinizer says:

    Dennis -SGMM @ 302

    You know, I never did FORTRAN. I did PL/I, assembler for IBM 360/70 and the DEC (and later for the PC and the Mac), BASIC (of course), PASCAL, dabbled with ADA, C and C++. Lots of dBase (II, III, and IV), and something like Oracle that wasn’t Oracle. Dabbled with MySQL some. I’m not the compleat programmer, though, by any means. I kinda put all that down around 5 years ago. Nowadays it’s mostly routines in MATLAB and LabView, and the occasional C++, but just enough to run numerical analysis packages.

    I miss playing with code, but I don’t really have time any more.

    Still say that CPM was better than DOS, and IBM should picked that instead!

  314. 314
    gbear says:

    Yea, wingnuts are latching on to Fannie an Freddy trying to lay cause for the meltdown on the dems.

    Does the name Rick Davis ever get mentioned in those discussions?

  315. 315
    tBone says:

    Dear God. Images, video, and blinky-text in borderless comments? BRING BACK WORDPRESS ERROR.

    (Annette r0xxors, though.)

  316. 316

    Does the name Rick Davis ever get mentioned in those discussions?

    POW

  317. 317
    Scrutinizer says:

    Does the name Rick Davis ever get mentioned in those discussions

    By the way, did you know that John McCain was a POW?

  318. 318
    TheFountainHead says:

    I think when historians look back at the turn of this century, they will determine that this country would not have survived without Jon Stewart.

  319. 319
    TheFountainHead says:

    Where did everyone go?

  320. 320
    b. hussein canuckistani says:

    I’m telling John what you people are doing to his blog. He’s gonna kick your asses.

  321. 321
    TenguPhule says:

    The stupid NEVER STOPS

    The new approach, announced Tuesday night by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., and Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., would tack large and contentious tax measures to the bailout bill. Senate leaders figure the House will have to approve it because the tax cuts are too appealing to Republicans and the financial rescue plan will still seem essential to most Democrats.

    How do you make a bad bill worse?

    In a compromise worked out with Republicans, the bill does not pay for the AMT and disaster provisions but does have revenue offsets for part of the energy and extension measures.

    The stupid, it burns us all.

  322. 322
    Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse says:

    In a compromise worked out with Republicans, the bill does not pay for the AMT and disaster provisions but does have revenue offsets for part of the energy and extension measures.

    Was that covered in the original, or was this a hoped-for addition that didn’t make it?

  323. 323
    wasabi gasp says:

    <img src=”http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3270/2903207462_94722ba2a7.jpg?v=0″>

    The Tongue Jut

  324. 324
  325. 325
    Comrade Nixon Hailfire Palin says:

    This thread looks like Risky Business: The Balloon Juice Edition.

  326. 326

    Well, that figures. The dems avoided one trap, but are now going to leap feet first into a new one. Enact a 700 bill taxpayer paid and cut taxes at same time. By doing so dems stamp their logo (Dumbass Democrats) on the bailout bill and also for adding the 700 bill plus lost AMT revenues to the budget deficit. I’m glad I’m no longer a democrat, even though I will vote for them next month. But then again, this is America, where all the leaders are below average, and money grows on trees.

  327. 327
    Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse says:

    Is Reid worth anything? Really? Can someone name one bold or correct thing he’s done since gaining office?

  328. 328
    wasabi gasp says:

    Reid seems like a wonderful guy to suck a bag of Werther’s Originals with.

  329. 329

    Okay 267, now you did it: I just tried to blow that gnat off my screen, so help me God.

  330. 330
    TheFountainHead says:

    Can someone tell me what this American Carol movie is about? Is this the wingnut attempt at humor?

  331. 331

    Well, if I understand fair value accounting properly, you have to value something – like a bundle of mortgages sliced up into bonds – as what it will fetch in the marketplace. What can you sell it for?

    The thing is, if, historically, the mortgages should return, say, 75 cents to the dollar (which is beyond terrible for mortgages!), but no one will buy them at over 25 cents on the dollar, then fair value accounting will cut their value by 66%.

    I can’t defend that proposal. I don’t have enough information or understanding to defend it. But, eliminating that form of valuation might be appropriate (emphasis on the “might”).

    A lot of the problem we’re facing is accounting based. There are rules saying you have to have so much in assets under certain circumstances, and if your assets are devalued, you need to raise additional capital to cover those requirements. Well, then, if we stop devaluing assets, we give people some breathing room.

    Again, not defending this, just saying that, from my understanding of the situation, it might be a decent idea.

  332. 332
    Comrade The Moar You Know says:

    Enact a 700 bill taxpayer paid and cut taxes at same time.

    Somehow the Senate leadership has managed to make an appallingly stupid idea much, much worse.

    “The first thing I would do is say, ‘Let’s not call it a bailout. Let’s call it a rescue,'” McCain told CNN.

    This is probably the single most offensive thing I’ve ever heard come out of a politican’s mouth. It literally assumes that I and my fellow Americans have the intelligence of a dirty sponge.

    That McCain, damn, he is an awesome leader. That is taking the fucking reins and crafting a solution that will stand as an example to all who come after.

    I am horrified. Bi-partisan idiocy on this scale suddenly puts a lot of previously unthinkable electoral options on my table.

  333. 333
    Conservatively Liberal says:

    For those of you who like to watch a dead cat bounce, here is The Kitten Cannon.

  334. 334
    Stevenovitch says:

    wohoo, 1300+ feet. Beat that suckers.

  335. 335

    Arbitrary scripts?

    document.write(“Hello World!”)

  336. 336
    RoonieRoo says:

    1441 feet!

  337. 337

    …and, if I’d been paying attention to the thread, I’d see that’s already been tried, somewhere above the pastry-laden bunny.

  338. 338
    wasabi gasp says:

    1,529 ft.

  339. 339
    Stevenovitch says:

    <style>ol li{border: 1px solid black;}</style>

    Yeah actually i’m surprised no one’s tried style tags yet.

  340. 340
    Stevenovitch says:

    … you’re all very welcome.

  341. 341
  342. 342
    Martin says:

    wohoo, 1300+ feet. Beat that suckers.

    1602!

  343. 343
    Rick Taylor says:

    I just found out a friend of mine has been called up for duty in Iraq. He’d gotten out of it a year ago, but evidently they are hard up for troops, and so he’d going to be gone for a year. He’s not happy about it. He has a three year old daughter.

    Thank you, Republicans, for misleading the country into such a long pointless war.

  344. 344
    Stevenovitch says:

    1602? crap… I am… defeated.

  345. 345

    How about arbitrary elements?

    I can hz buttin?

  346. 346
    Stevenovitch says:

    <input type=”button” value=”Click me” onclick=”alert(‘Seriously, make sure youve cleared your cookies before coming to balloon juice untill this stuff gets fixed’);”>

  347. 347

    Nope, no buttons…

    Rick, how dare you interrupt our geekery with even the slightest hint of reality?

    (Seriously though… that sucks. My brother-in-law has been deployed six times now (USAF); he’s missed half of his daughter’s life in six-month chunks. My sister told him if he went again, he was coming back to an empty house…)

  348. 348
    Товарищ НеинтереснаяСобака says:

    Comment Borders!

    Of a sort, I guess.

  349. 349
    TenguPhule says:

    Well, then, if we stop devaluing assets, we give people some breathing room.

    Again, not defending this, just saying that, from my understanding of the situation, it might be a decent idea.

    “This pile of shit is worth billions! Trust me!”

    Fair value accounting was enacted to prevent shitty people from pretending their shit was gold.

  350. 350

    Man. Evidently, my kung foo is weak sauce tonight. Damn you, Stevenovitch.

  351. 351
    wasabi gasp says:

    <span style=”margin-left:-50px”>outside the box<span>

  352. 352
    Stevenovitch says:

    <style>ol li{border: 1px solid black;margin-top: 3px;}</style>

  353. 353
    Stevenovitch says:

    <style>ol li{border: 1px solid black;margin-top:3px;padding:3px;}</style>

    It’s style by consensus really.

  354. 354
    Conservatively Liberal says:
    wohoo, 1300+ feet. Beat that suckers.

     
    1602!

    2744. Shoot low, go for the distance. About 4/5ths power. :)

  355. 355
    Stevenovitch says:

    25ft. Go for lowest. (I can move me some goal posts too)

  356. 356
    ThymeZone says:

    And the current panic is hardly unwarranted. Our real problem is in the credit markets, and the credit markets are blinking fire engine red right now. Overnight bank lending rates have skyrocketed. Municipal bond markets have cratered. The two biggest providers of short-term credit to restaurant franchises, GE Capital and Bank of America, have exited the market. Rates on overnight commercial paper are up two points. This stuff doesn’t hit you or me in the pocketbook immediately, but it does eventually as spending drops, companies can’t get financing, and jobs get cut. You wouldn’t ignore a speeding truck just because it was still a few hundred yards away, and you shouldn’t ignore this either.

    Kevin Drum, probably the most laid back blogmeister in the world.

    John says that he reads some blogs daily to “check himself.” Drum is a guy I read to check myself.

    When Kevin Drum tells you that a truck is coming at you, you need to pay attention.

  357. 357
    OriGuy says:

    Comment Borders!

    I feel so confined.
    I like all the shiny new buttons, but I wish there were one labeled “Symbols” that would pop up a window like the Character Set accessory so that I could just click on the symbol I want to insert. I wouldn’t have to type the HTML codes to get ♥♣♠♦.
    Maybe if I close my eyes and click the CODE button….

  358. 358
    wasabi gasp says:

    <H1 style=”margin:-900px 0 0 120px”>Tilt<H1>

  359. 359
    Stevenovitch says:

    <style>#comment-1053079{display:none;}</style>

    rude…

  360. 360
    kilo says:

    Somebody had to do it….

    &lt img src=”http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/9/30/128673142220304835.jpg’ ” alt=”All ur newz sources…” /&gt

  361. 361
    kilo says:

    Hmm, it seems that fixing things has broken the fix for images… one more try!

    Wow, preview is very shiny with teh imagez now! Nice work Annette et. al.

  362. 362
    Blue Raven says:

    174 & 175:

    “But you nominate one little mayor…”

  363. 363
    Товарищ НеинтереснаяСобака says:

    No more picatures? Well, I’ve never been an astronaut, but I think I understand the challenges of HTML:

    <img src=”http://www.balloon-juice.com/images/hotair.gif” />

  364. 364
    Товарищ НеинтереснаяСобака says:

    Yeah, I think it still works. Do you score assists?

    <img src=”http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/9/30/128673142220304835.jpg” />

    And the code:
    &­lt;img src=”http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/9/30/128673142220304835.jpg” /&­gt;

  365. 365
    kilo says:

    Ok, images work in preview, but not inline… perhaps that’s busted?

    At any rate, all ur newz sourcez are belong to Sarah.

  366. 366
    Товарищ НеинтереснаяСобака says:

    Damn those quote marks. This should be a more accurate rendition, I think:

    &­lt;img src="http://images.icanhascheezburg.....&quot; /&­­gt;

  367. 367
    kilo says:

    Hmmph, yet another computer application whereby the semicolon becomes the nemesis of all mankind.

    An assist to Товарищ НеинтереснаяСобака @ 363 above. Your +/- for the season is on the way up. Cheers!

  368. 368
    Common Sense says:

    Why is this the only thread with borders?

  369. 369
    iluvsummr says:

    Testing images and embedded video:
    <img src=”http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/K/I/2/mccain-palin-incontinence.jpg” alt=”mccain-palin-img”>

  370. 370
    iluvsummr says:

    OK no embedded video.

  371. 371
    Товарищ НеинтереснаяСобака says:

    Why is this the only thread with borders?

    Because Stevenovitch is a naughty boy…

  372. 372
    Stevenovitch says:

    Yes, but I use my powers for good.

  373. 373
    iluvsummr says:

    Common Sense Says:
     
    Why is this the only thread with borders?
     

    Makes it easier to round up and deport the snark.

  374. 374
    CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII says:

    Wall St reminds me of Maple St.
    That’s where a 10 year old kid set up a lemonade stand in expectations of making a fortune selling a refreshing beverage to the thirsty traffic that journeyed along Maple St. Those included Mrs Jones from four houses down the block, Mr Smith two more away, and Ol’ man Liebowitz who lived on the corner.
    ….
    There wasn’t much traffic that hot summer day. The ice cubes melted in the pitcher of lemonade.
    The 10 year old sat by his sidewalk business, waiting expectantly for his first customer.
    Finally, a car drove up and stopped. Out stepped Ol’ man Liebowitz, the crakiest guy on Maple St.
    “Want a nice cool glass of lemonade?”, the 10 year old asked.
    ….
    “Sure would be nice”, the old guy replied. “How much?”
    The 10 year old said, “Well, I’ve been sittin’ here all day in the hot sun, and I’m hoping for a profit. So, how about seven bucks?”
    ….
    I’ve never seen that ol’ coot run so fast to get back into his car.

    In Florida that’s illegal. Lemonade stands are not allowed to be set up without a business license.

    Posted August 1, 2003
    ….
    Cops, Bureaucrats Shut Down Six-Year-Old’s Lemonade Stand
    ….
    Police in Naples, Florida shut down a lemonade stand run by six-year-old Avigayil Warde and two of her friends. The police said they were just doing their job. Under city rules, a permit is needed to operate a “temporary commercial business.”
    ….
    The kids’ lemonade stand, set up in Avigayil’s driveway, fit that description. The police were sicced on the young lemonade outlaws reportedly after a neighbor complained. “No one goes around looking for lemonade stands to shut down,” said Lisa Koehler, a government spokeswoman. “But if someone complains, you have no choice but to take action.” Spoken like a true tyrant.
    ….
    The lemonade stand was back up again Tuesday after city officials — no doubt embarrassed by the publicity that ensued when word got out — granted the kids a free permit for the summer. (How generous.) However, on the advice of a lawyer consulted by their mother, the kids have changed the way they do business. Instead of charging for the lemonade, they now give it away, and offer people the option of tipping.
    ….
    “[The lawyer] told me the city couldn’t shut us down if we didn’t charge people anything,” Avigayil’s mom said. “I think that’s the way we’re going to do it from now on.” The children had operated the illegal lemonade stand for about two years without any complaints. Avigayil’s mom says she wanted to teach her daughter the basics of running a business by running the lemonade stand.
    ….
    Thanks to petty-tyrant bureaucrats and nosy neighbors, Avigayil may have learned a lot more than anyone expected about the reality of running a business in America today. The story received national attention, and everyone got a good laugh out of it. But, alas, few people have bothered to consider the real moral of the story: how many adults’ business plans are stifled, stymied or destroyed because of endless red tape and bureaucratic meddling and control?
    ….
    How many hopes and dreams do America’s politicians and bureaucrats wreck and destroy every year?
    ….
    Source: Naples Daily News [story no longer available]
    ….
    Thanks to James W. Harris of the Advocates for Self-Government and The Liberator Online for the above information. If you wish to subscribe to the Liberator Online, visit: http://www.self-gov.org/liberator/maintain.html.)

    I used to live there and this story was huge when it happened.

  375. 375
    CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII says:

    The two biggest providers of short-term credit to restaurant franchises, GE Capital and Bank of America, have exited the market. Rates on overnight commercial paper are up two points. This stuff doesn’t hit you or me in the pocketbook immediately, but it does eventually as spending drops, companies can’t get financing, and jobs get cut.

    TZ I think we had better go back for Sashimi and Saki at our favorite fish place soon, as I fear we may never get the chance again, at least for a while.

  376. 376
    CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII says:

    Saki? Hmmm, I meant Sake. LMAO

  377. 377
    CIRCVS MAXIMVS MMVIII says:

    I am happy to have the borders again, they keep things organized for me. ;)

  378. 378
    RichardfromHB says:

    URGENT ACTION NEEDED
    Sen Maj Leader Harry Reed is planning on bringing back the inadequate give away that was defeated in the house. It’s going to be voted on Wednesday or Thurs. He needs to be told by email, fax, phone that it is not good enough. his contact info is:

    528 Hart Senate Office Bldg
    Washington, DC 20510
    Phone: 202-224-3542
    Fax: 202-224-7327
    Toll Free for Nevadans:
    1-866-SEN-REID (736-7343)

    The core concept proposed by Bush is flawed. Call some hearings and ask some economists. Google Sweden 1992 banking crisis. They had good success promptly steering their financial institutions back to safety. Learn the lessons, write it for the Democratic base, and own it. The “compromise” tweeking that was done to the Bush proposal resulted in a toothless and weak 100 page bill that tried to bury and hide its weakness from the voters. Rather than condescendingly claiming that the American people didn’t understand (Cf, McSame of Obama at first debate), or that the leadership didn’t explain it well enough, the reality is that public outrage finally made the Republicans blink, to borrow from Palin. If they vote in favor of bailing out the bad actors, they lose votes from constituents in five weeks at the next election. That is their only moral hazard. The bill that failed would not have prevented one of the 10K daily foreclosures, could have been filibustered until Bush spent all $700B, would only have made some parachutes non-tax-deductible, merely required a report “suggesting” how the taxpayer will be paid back, and allowed the same bunch of lobbyists to set prices for their trash that the taxpayers would pay. As a final insult, instead of providing more confidence through transparency, the failed bill would allow Paulson to suspend the mark-to-market rule. This is intellectual dishonesty that will further erode confidence in our banking system. Do a better job on all these issues and allow bankruptcy judges to implement the rewriting of loans, or face the wrath of the voters. I think many voters would accept a temporary governmental equity position in the banking sector as long as the bad guys aren’t seen as maintaining their ability to subvert the programs and continue to rip off the system. Don’t pull another FISA cave.

  379. 379
    AnneLaurie says:

    I think what you saw yesterday was evidence of a serious power struggle in the Republican Party. According to reports on Morning Joe, Gingrich was lobbying Repubs to vote against the bill, while Bonehead was asking them to vote for it. What it seems to me is that they are going to cede this election, get rid of the old guys this election, come back in 2010 with as many new GOPAC guys as they can find, and position themselves for a Gingrich run for President in 2012. Basically, bring back the radical conservatives or the 80’s…Yesterday was just the first public shots in the campaign.

    You’re not the only one. I’ve been saying Newt Gingrich was the Boomer Dick Nixon since approximately 1989, and it’s about time for a “new Newt” to rise from the shadows like a malarial miasma from a fetid swamp. However, I think watching the C-Plus Augustus crash & burn has convinced Gingrich that you can’t actually run a working government via temper tantrum — anybody else here old enough to remember the crushing electoral rout that resulted when the Newt-led Rethug majority shut down the federal government because Clinton wouldn’t let him ride in the *front* of Air Force One? You can, however, create a very profitable Permanent(ly B*tching) Minority that will ensure the hardest of the hardcore True Believers a very nice living & lots of face time on television, as long as you don’t mind embarrassing everyone around you by acting like a nap-deprived three-year-old as you demand ridiculous perqs and prerogatives for your little claque before anything useful can be done for the remaining 85% of the American population. The Boomers are all about “niche marketing”, and I see this as the start of Gingrich’s campaign to drive out the (remaining) reality-based members of the Grand Old Party. His goal would be not so much to win the presidency in 2012 (or ever) as to access all the funding, media, and other goodies available to a Serious Candidate… even a Serious Candidate who’s managed to drive his party’s membership down into the range of Bush’s current approval ratings.

  380. 380
    Kamishna ya Watu Xenos says:

    I could be wrong, but I believe very few of the bad sub prime mortgages that are driving this catastrophe were done by Fan and Fred. The real culprit is systematic dereg. especially the Gramm law in 1999 throwing the door open for mischief by investment banks.

    Fannie and Freddie bought a lot of paper they should not have, but they did not buy the absolute garbage that was then repackaged and diced up a half-dozen ways, ‘insured’ and then marketed around the world. That is the stuff that has crashed the international banking system, not the Fannie and Freddie paper. So you are right – this is misinformation from professional liars.

  381. 381
    Scrutinizer says:

    Jesus, there needs to be some serious pushback against this “the Democrats caused this because of forcing the banks to make loans to people who couldn’t afford houses.”

  382. 382
    slip says:

    Jesus, there needs to be some serious pushback against this “the Democrats caused this because of forcing the banks to make loans to people who couldn’t afford houses.”

    Cite this, for starters.

  383. 383
    Comrade Jake says:

    Jesus, there needs to be some serious pushback against this “the Democrats caused this because of forcing the banks to make loans to people who couldn’t afford houses.”

    Is that really gaining traction anywhere beside the right-wing echo chamber?

    We’re renting a place these days that doesn’t have cable, so I only get the major networks (via rabbit-ears). So I’ve been judging events through the basis of what the major networks report in the morning. I’m not saying it’s a solid way to look at things, but it has been interesting (Palin’s getting creamed).

    There’s been no sign of this “Dems give loans to people who can’t afford it” BS, though, so far as I can tell.

  384. 384
    JL says:

    By blaming the minorites the repubs are trying to appeal to their base. At the same time they are pointing out that Obama is black.

  385. 385
    PC says:

    hmmm

    and Rick James, bitch!

  386. 386

    The fix is in.

    Money changes everything, as Tom Davis once opined. And money changes votes. The brave Repubs will justify their switch and the money will pass into the hands of the speculators. Again.

    Just saying.

  387. 387
    Not My Fault says:

    Could someone explain what the hell the senate is up to?

    If the bailout is truly our one and only hope, (I don’t even play an economist on the internet, so I don’t know) then the democrats should whip the vote and do it themselves.

    The senate approach looks more like the democrats asking the republicans “would you like a blow job with that ass fucking you are giving us?”

  388. 388
    bago says:

    Yaaay! Comment Borders!

  389. 389
    Comrade Mary, Would-Be Minion Of Bad Horse says:

    Test.

    <pre>
    </pre>

  390. 390
    Joshua says:

    By definition, the “market value” is the amount of money you can get if you sold it. Mark to market accounting makes sense – if you hold an asset, and it goes down in value, its worth less, and you’ve taken a loss. That MIGHT change, but until it does, you’re in the hole. Changing that so companies can write down whatever mythical value they “think” it holds is insane, and it is iirc what got us into this Enron mess – Enron would say this asset or that asset is actually worth a lot because it is gonna be making bank in X years, so lets put it on the books as profit now.

    With mortgage securities its just as insane. These people are clearly thinking they can “unlock” the value of these things if they could price it at what it is worth, rather than the fire-sale prices they would get for it today. But what is it worth? The worth of it is dependent on what cash flows they will be getting from the payment of mortgage loans, BUT NOBODY KNOWS WHO IS GONNA PAY. Foreclosures are off the wall and home prices keep sinking. Any attempt to guess this right now is an estimate with a very very high degree of uncertainty. And let’s be real, do you trust the same people that made this mess to give conservative estimates about their price? Hell no, they will do nothing of the sort.

  391. 391
    D. Mason says:

    this is just a test

    <img src=”http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/9/30/128673142220304835.jpg” alt=”example” />

  392. 392

    Congressmen, banking lobbyists and companies including American International Group Inc. have urged the SEC to place a moratorium on fair-value accounting, saying it forces firms to report losses that they never expect to incur. Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke and other proponents say a suspension would erode confidence that firms are owning up to losses.

    Let me translate

    “Sure, those eggs have been in the fridge for a week or two after their expiry date. But they’re probably still good, and I fully expect to scramble them up over the weekend. Therefore you shouldn’t write them off. You’re still coming over for lunch, right?”

  393. 393
    Annette says:

    Test

    Test

    Stupid screwy tag placements…

Comments are closed.