Third Bush Term

The Politico examines the responses by McCain and Obama to the Georgia/Russian war (or whatever they are going to call it), and sees a difference:

Obama’s statement put him in line with the White House, the European Union, NATO, and a series of European powers, while McCain’s initial statement—which he delivered in Iowa and ran on a blog on his Web site under the title “McCain Statement on Russian Invasion of Georgia,”—put him more closely in line with the moral clarity and American exceptionalism projected by President Bush’s first term.

A McCain advisor suggested Obama’s statement constituted appeasement, while Obama’s camp suggested that McCain was being needlessly belligerent and dangerously quick to judge a complicated situation.

There you have it, in a nutshell. You vote for McCain, you get the same manichean belligerence and needless warmongering we all have enjoyed so much. The Politico piece goes on:

John McCain’s top foreign policy advisor, Randy Scheunemann, defended McCain’s direct criticism of Russia in the early hours of the crisis.

“Senator McCain is clearly willing to note who he thinks is the aggressor here,” he said, dismissing the notion that Georgia’s move into its renegade province had precipitated the crisis. “I don’t think you can excuse defend explain or make allowance for Russian behavior because of what is going on in Georgia.”

It might be interesting to find out who Randy Scheunemann is, but the Politico is incurious (actually, there is a bit at the very end, I appear to have missed it or the piece was edited, probably the former), so we have to turn to McClatchy:

John McCain’s top foreign policy adviser, Randall Scheunemann, lobbied for the nation of Georgia for four years, including for about a year after he joined the Republican senator’s presidential campaign staff in early 2007.

Georgia has paid Scheunemann’s firm, Orion Strategies, LLC, nearly $900,000 since 2004, including $200,000 for an eight-month contract that began on May 1, two weeks after McCain issued a strong statement criticizing Russia and supporting Georgia.

Scheunemann took a leave from lobbying for Orion in March, two months before McCain barred active lobbyists from serving on his staff. He’s still listed as Orion’s president and owner.

So, in what the Politico calls a 3 am test, John McCain responds belligerently towards Russia, and were he President there is no doubt it would exacerbate the situation, and it turns out that his top foreign policy advisor just so happened to be a wholly owned subsidiary of the nation of Georgia. Interesting. You would think the press would look into that, but right now they are kind of occupied with JOHN EDWARDS’ RUMORED TO BE GAY BUT ADULTEROUS PENIS.

55 replies
  1. 1
    DannyNoonan says:

    Great work, John. McMaverick reminds me of a kid with an over-developed sense of being wronged. His reaction to this is juvenile, but also to be expected, given his long, temper-tantrum fueled track record. It’s an attribute that clearly doesn’t belong in a president. John Tune nailed it when he said the thought of a “hot headed” President McCain “sends a cold chill down my spine.”

  2. 2
    iluvsummr says:

    But McCain is a Maverick™ who would never be influenced by his top foreign policy advisor’s role as a lobbyist for Georgia. The real reason for McCain’s reaction is that he recently learned that Russia is on the Iran-Pakistan border, and any country on that border is immediately suspect.

    Also, the irony of attempting to claim the moral higher ground internationally when you supported the illegal invasion of a sovereign country yourself is happily lost on McCain.

  3. 3
    bootlegger says:

    The big test for the MSM on this and other revelations this week is tomorrow’s Sunday “news” shows. Will they bring the heat or toss batting practice?

  4. 4
    Brachiator says:

    Good stuff. I think Politico may have updated its stuff, because they go on to note:

    The conflict in Georgia also brought attention another complicating feature of McCain’s campaign: His ties to Republican operatives with extensive lobbying practices. Scheunemann was, until earlier this year, registered to lobby for the government of Georgia.

    A public relations firm working for the Russian Federation pointed out Scheunemann’s lobbying past to reporters—a sign that McCain’s stance is not, for better or worse, being welcomed in Moscow—as did Obama’s campaign.

    “John McCain’s top foreign policy advisor lobbied for, and has a vested interest in, the Republic of Georgia and McCain has mirrored the position advocated by the government,” said Obama spokesman Hari Sevugan, saying the “appearances of a conflict of interest” was a consequence of McCain’s too-close ties to lobbyists.

    It was interesting to see Bush and Putin at the Olympics Opening ceremonies, sitting near each other and chatting to each other like old buddies, especially given McCain’s position on Georgia. This makes McCain look less like Bush III than a sad, possibly unstable old man obsessed with getting victories anywhere because part of his life was stolen from him during his POW years.

    McCain also clearly inspires those conservatives who have a hard-on for war, whether it’s America beating the shit out of some weaker nation, or this mess in Georgia. Politico notes this reaction by the Heritage Foundation:

    A fellow at the conservative Heritage Foundation, Ariel Cohen, by contrast, praised McCain’s statement as “robust and tough.”

    The implication here, of course, is that Obama is effete, weak and European, while McCain is a real man.

    Unfortunately, I think that McCain’s stance will appeal to those voters who think that American foreign policy should be the political equivalent of smash-mouth football.

  5. 5
    jake says:

    The Phone Rings at 3 am.
    McCainiac hits the Big Red Button and rolls over again, muttering “Move over you trollop!”

  6. 6

    I was hoping to find out what John Edwards’ penis would do at 3 a.m. I suppose McCain’s penis would pass the message from the prostate to get up and go to the bathroom.

  7. 7
    bootlegger says:

    McCainiac hits the Big Red Button trollop and rolls over again, muttering “Move over you trollop!” into the red phone.

    Fixed.

  8. 8
    Bill H says:

    If NATO had gone along with Bush adamant insistence and admitted Georgia as a member of NATO, which is what McCain’s Randall Scheunemann was lobbying for, we wouldn’t be having all this discussion. The “attack one attack all” policy would mean that we would be sending forces to start America’s third front as we speak.

    Of course, this outbreak of war is another of those “no one could have forseen” things.

  9. 9
    Jay C says:

    Seriously, is there any top advisor in Sen. McCain’s campaign who doesn’t have lobbying ties to someone or other? Is it a prerequisite to get hired there?

    Anyway, on a really serious note:

    McCain also clearly inspires those conservatives who have a hard-on for war,

    Lame, sick and counterproductive though I might think it is, this sort of attitude does, I’m afraid, have a good deal of resonance with a non-trivial percentage of the population. Even after 8 years of mostly counterproductive bellicosity from the Bush gang, there is still the preoccupation with “projecting strength” as a linchpin of American foreign policy. And the hawks will immediately go for the jugular of any politico they can paint (rightly, wrongly or unwisely) as “weak” or “soft” – or worse: “abandoning an ally”. Especially if dealing with Russians (McCain’s favored villain-du-jour) is involved.

    The niceties of geopolitical/military strategy are almost irrelevant to the debate: as is the wisdom/folly of the US getting involved in some obscure ethnic conflict in the Caucasus: as long as Sen. McCrank (or his lobbyist trolls) can paint it as an issue of “right” and “wrong” (with him on the side of Righteousness and Justice, of course) – they will: facts be damned.

    Hell: the McCain campaign probably has somebody doing “research” to “prove” that the Russians were behind 9/11…

  10. 10
    Ed Marshall says:

    The “attack one attack all” policy would mean that we would be sending forces to start America’s third front as we speak.

    More likely, Georgia invokes article 5 and the most powerful military alliance in history disolves as no one on the planet (including even Bush) is stupid enough to go to war with Russia over Georgia. McCain is trying to make that case and he can have it. If people vote for him I’m going into survivalist mode.

  11. 11
    iluvsummr says:

    Oops, I meant the Iraq-Pakistan border.

  12. 12
    D. Mason says:

    If people vote for him I’m going into survivalist mode.

    AHHHHHAHAHAHAHA. You think anyone would survive the McCain years.

  13. 13
    dbrown says:

    I hate bush and have mocked him about his seeing putin’s soul (right) but right now I thank God that bushwhack is on good terms with putin – Georgia be damn – russia has a few thousnad ICBM’s and is still a major military land power that could make big trouble for us in the world. This conflict is not something I want us to deal with – let the f*cking UN, Europe with us on the sidelines talk about it. McSame is past crazy – he is a loon if he wants to butt heads with russia over that backwater area on russia’s border.

  14. 14
    Wilfred says:

    Fair play’s a jewel, and this is a cheap shot at McCain.

    For one thing, Georgia has over 2000 soldiers in Iraq – taking some of the burden off our own guys and getting killed in the process. Consensus here – kiss the Russians’ ass and not support people who have actually been killed in supporting our own stupidity. Classy. At least McCain is showing some support for an ally that has actually bled for the United States. That used to count for something in this country.

    Then there’s this:

    Russia has long attempted to reclaim now-sovereign parts of the former Soviet Union, stoking conflicts in the enclaves of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, which are universally recognized to be Georgian soil. Russia has also used the ensuing military tensions to set back Georgia’s bid to enter NATO.

    There’s a thin line between being a pragmatist and being a pussy. If the Georgians want to make a fight of it, why not help them?

  15. 15
    4tehlulz says:

    Georgia’s led by fucking nuts; they’ve declared a state of war against Russia.

  16. 16

    […] John Cole cuts through the superficial Politico coverage of the candidates’ responses to the war in Georgia and comes to the right conclusion: So, in what the Politico calls a 3 am test, John McCain responds belligerently towards Russia, and were he President there is no doubt it would exacerbate the situation, and it turns out that his top foreign policy advisor just so happened to be a wholly owned subsidiary of the nation of Georgia. […]

  17. 17
    Ed Marshall says:

    There’s a thin line between being a pragmatist and being a pussy. If the Georgians want to make a fight of it, why not help them?

    I dunno, why not, what could go wrong with starting a war with Russia?

  18. 18
    dbrown says:

    There’s a thin line between being a pragmatist and being a pussy. If the Georgians want to make a fight of it, why not help them?

    The US openly fight Russia? US soldiers dying in a war against Russia? Have you even the faintest idea of what a real full blown nuclear conflict would do to us and the world? Even if Russia backed down and I seriously doubt it would need too since we could never mount a serious military force in that location in a time period that would matter, we would create a bitter and highly dangerous enemy that could and would do terrible things to us for decades. For what? That backwater place of no value for the US? Of course Russia is trying to recapture lost territories – these hell-holes do border their country and belonged to the country for a hundred or more years. Right or wrong, this is not our concern and let them try and control those places and the problems will mount just as they did in the 90’s.
    Please, if you are so brave, feel free to get on a flight out to Georgia and join their military and stop telling other people to die for your arm chair bravery.

  19. 19
    dbrown says:

    By the way, I need to add that McSame is a lying fool – anyone who threatens Russia with such hollow and empty words is a spineless coward who is only after political gain while American soldiers will pay for any consequences. His only intention was to sound tough and make money. Obama had the guts and character to speak the truth – we need to carefully handle this problem with our allies and putting OUR interest first, not an ego of rightwing cowards who besides all being chicken hawks only want other kids to die for their fake bravery.
    I have done the walk relative to fighting Russia – I was trained as a fighter-interceptor-tactical nuke pilot to defend NATO in the early 80’s when that situation was still on the edge. Anyone who talks about fighting Russia is either not thinking or they are past the point where their mind still works.

  20. 20
    Wilfred says:

    Please, if you are so brave, feel free to get on a flight out to Georgia and join their military and stop telling other people to die for your arm chair bravery.

    Go fuck yourself, wanker. Message to American allies; We will do nothing when your own civilians are murdered by the big bad Russian.

    Anyone who talks about fighting Russia is either not thinking or they are past the point where their mind still works.

    The Afghans did ok, and that was with precious little help.

    How about sending the Georgians weapons to fight? Seems the least we can do for a country that has helped us in Iraq. Or is even that too much for pussies like you?

  21. 21
    Andrew says:

    Wilfred obviously owns a controlling interest in a fallout shelters company.

  22. 22
    D-Chance. says:

    Who cares if Russian tanks invade a sovereign territory? No one gives a damn about Georgia. Let them all die under the Russian boot (and it’s up to 1500 already). That’s what Doris Day would do. And who could disagree with Doris Day?

  23. 23
    The Moar You Know says:

    There’s a thin line between being a pragmatist and being a pussy. If the Georgians want to make a fight of it, why not help them?

    Christ almighty, I have never read such stupidity in my life.

    Go to a bar in the shit part of town, wait for some drunk to piss off a member of your local “motorcycle riders association”, and when they haul him outside to administer a steel-pipe correction to his bad manners, wade into the middle of things and help defend the guy.

    Then come back here and tell us all why we ought to help the Georgians, who bought this whole sorry incident on themselves. If you’re still capable of speech, that is.

    But, of course, you’re simply trolling – even the hardcore GOP wardogs who I work with aren’t willing to touch this with a ten-foot pole.

  24. 24
    Wilfred says:

    I don’t like bullies- the powerful that beat up on the weak and get away with it. My position is to help the Georgians, rather than stand by when their cities are bombed by Russian planes.

    This is so shocking? I don’t like McCain very much but there is actually a principle involved here. He stood up for something, just like he did years ago when he insisted that Clinton let the Bosnian Muslims get weapons to defend themselves, even though many ‘pragmatists’ were afraid of offending the Russians then, too.

    When the Russians start murdering civilians, like they always do, the pragmatists can feel rest assured that they did the right thing.

    Up the rebels, whoever and wherever they may be.

  25. 25
    iluvsummr says:

    Wilfred — if only the situation in Georgia was as simple as you are making it out to be.

    Hearing Georgian president Saakashvili on NPR yesterday making the case for why the rest of the world should intervene got me wondering why after all these years and a declared ceasefire, Georgia decided to retake South Ossetia while everyone else was focused on the Olympics.

    The Georgians already ordered anti-tank missiles from the US a while ago and made a show of test-firing them against Russian tanks (raised some eyebrows at the time, but not so surprising now).

    Saakashvili is a smart man with degrees from Columbia U and Georgetown. His NPR interview shows that he knows how to appeal to (and manipulate) an American audience. I hope both sides stand down and figure out a way to better handle the Ossetia issue (almost all the Ossetian residents hold Russian passports according to Saakashvili).

  26. 26
    The Moar You Know says:

    Wilfred and D. Change, the intellectual tag team that never stops giving.

    Let me make my position perfectly clear: I do not give a fuck what Russia does to Georgia, just as I do not give a fuck what the Iraqis do to each other. I really don’t. If the Russians want to go in and kill every fucking Georgian, I do not care. If the Iraqis want to murder every single one of their countrymen until there’s only one left, let them. I do not care.

    We’re out of money, in case you haven’t noticed. Our roads, bridges, airports, schools, wiring grid and water systems are falling to pieces. We don’t have the money to be the world’s cop anymore. Let somebody else do it. Let the Europeans, the Venezuelans, hell, even the Russians do it. We can’t fucking afford it and we need to stop pretending that we can.

    Maybe when we pay back that ten trilion we’re in hock for, then we can pick up then gun and the badge and go out and play sheriff again. But until that’s done, I want this notion that we can go and play the role of World Police put to rest.

  27. 27
    ThatLeftTurnInABQ says:

    Lame, sick and counterproductive though I might think it is, this sort of attitude does, I’m afraid, have a good deal of resonance with a non-trivial percentage of the population. Even after 8 years of mostly counterproductive bellicosity from the Bush gang, there is still the preoccupation with “projecting strength” as a linchpin of American foreign policy.

    Unfortunately foreign policy debate in this country is all too often dominated by these people, who sound like a bunch of 13 year old boys who call everything they don’t like “gay”, using homophobia to cover up their anxiety that they don’t know the foggiest thing about girls and are unlikely to get any more knowledgeable about the subject anytime soon, much less actually get some.

    About 40% of our population falls in this category – that’s the bad news. The worse news is that about 90% of the pundits are this way.

  28. 28
    dbrown says:

    Wilfred
    You are quick to call people names so what fighting have you ever done? I was a front line soldier who faced Russia, flew jets and you? My service does not give me any rights to put other people’s kids in harm’s way, either. Your answer to being brave is to just call me a name – that is the extent of your bravery? Wow, I’m so impressed and hurt – oww, that cuts so deep. You win. I see that you can defeat Ruusia just with your mouth.
    You are now so brave you want to send weapons so others can make your fight and die in a hopeless, and pointless war? What, you don’t like bullies and haven’t you read our history and what we have done to others?

  29. 29
    Wilfred says:

    I was a front line soldier who faced Russia, flew jets and you?

    I must have missed that war. Who won? Having served near the Czech border myself I never met any front line soldiers who flew jets.

    Let me make my position perfectly clear: I do not give a fuck what Russia does to Georgia, just as I do not give a fuck what the Iraqis do to each other. I really don’t. If the Russians want to go in and kill every fucking Georgian, I do not care. If the Iraqis want to murder every single one of their countrymen until there’s only one left, let them. I do not care.

    Wow, that’s exactly how I feel about Israel! You anti-Arab, anti-Georgian, anti-Iraqi hypocrite.

  30. 30
    4tehlulz says:

    Why am I utterly not surprised that Wilfred went teh 3dg33 route.

  31. 31
    Jay C says:

    @ Wilfred:

    How about sending the Georgians weapons to fight? Seems the least we can do for a country that has helped us in Iraq. Or is even that too much for pussies like you?

    Y’know, Wilf: your arguments (such as they are) really might carry a little more weight if you didn’t tack on the gratuitous insults all the time: in this case, I’d really like to hear your articulation of just exactly why you think the US ought to be obliged to “support” – presumably with supplies/logistics/weapons/troops – any of our “allies'” military adventurism (regardless of circumstances)? Just because they sent some troops to Iraq to curry favor with Bush (and get aid)?

    Taiwan is a ally: if they invaded Shanghai, do you think we should support them? El Salvador has troops in Iraq, too: if they decided to use tanks to settle a border dispute with Honduras: do you think we should simply cheerlead them on?

    I know it’s a simple argument to make: we should support the Plucky Brave Georgians being cruelly crushed under the Claw of The Bear: but unfortunately, the realities of the Georgia/South Ossetia situation aren’t so neatly pigeonholed: and nobody is 100% in the “right” here.

    No matter how much huffy moral outrage gets summoned up in the blogosphere.

  32. 32
    Scott H says:

    South Ossetia is fighting for their freedom and independence – from Georgia, not Russia. Georgia is the invader; Russia is aiding the defenders.

    The crisis began spiralling when Georgian forces launched a surprise attack on Thursday night to regain control of South Ossetia, which has had de facto independence since the end of a civil war in 1992. [BBC]

  33. 33
    The Moar You Know says:

    Wow, that’s exactly how I feel about Israel! You anti-Arab, anti-Georgian, anti-Iraqi hypocrite.

    Lulz. You bite like a fish, every time.

    Now dance some more for my entertainment, bitch.

  34. 34
    iluvsummr says:

    An interesting take from the Times (UK):

    When is a victory not a victory? When it dents your country’s image, scares your allies and gets you into an unwinnable war with a hugely stronger opponent.

    That is the bleak outlook for Georgia this weekend, after what initially looked like a quick military win against the separatist regime in South Ossetia.

  35. 35
    jake says:

    Message to American allies; We will do nothing when your own civilians are murdered by the big bad Russian.

    Duh.

  36. 36
    Wilfred says:

    Fair enough.

    Obviously, we support the military adventurism of at least one of our allies so the argument that supporting the Georgians would somehow be unique is absurd. And this presumes that the official story now being laid out is exactly what’s going on – as usual, all critical thinking is suspended the moment the official story supports what most people want.

    but unfortunately, the realities of the Georgia/South Ossetia situation aren’t so neatly pigeonholed: and nobody is 100% in the “right” here.

    Spoken like a Kissinger. The Russians will be given a blank check and will cash it with heaps of dead Georgians. Remember that the official Russian reason for invading and destroying Afghanistan was to bring modernity to a medieval people.

    What I object to most, however, is the stupidity of asserting that support means going nuclear, or attacking Russia, or some other hand-wringing nonsense. There are many things the United States can and should do to support people who, rightly or wrongly, have supported us. Be strong when the images of dead Georgian children start filling the screen.

    If pragmatism means questioning the legitimacy of that then something is wrong, IMO.

  37. 37
    dbrown says:

    must have missed that war. Who won? Having served near the Czech border myself I never met any front line soldiers who flew jets.

    You served on those lines and you want to pick a fight with Russia? Boy, I am at a lost to understand what makes you think a war with Russia is worth such a price we would pay. If it is the issue of who is brave, please, that is beyound silly and your point is not valid. Only fools die to prove their bravery.
    As for pilots not being front line, I am lost to understand that statement but I am sure there is logic there that you didn’t add to your post.

    Still, the NATO-USSR front was never hot and I am glad it never came to that because unlike you, I know the real cost a war between the NATO and Russia would have caused. Also, your idea of victory

    The Afghans did ok, and that was with precious little help.

    is not my idea. How many millions fled? Millions lost their homes, tens-of-thousnads died? Please, Russia never had more than a small fraction of its forces there and so, what does your statement mean? Also, the Russians left on their own terms (unlike us in Vietnam … but I guess the North did ok by your standards (well over a million died)).
    Your points are silly and never to the point but please, continue. Gives me something to do.

  38. 38
    dbrown says:

    What I object to most, however, is the stupidity of asserting that support means going nuclear, or attacking Russia, or some other hand-wringing nonsense. There are many things the United States can and should do to support people who, rightly or wrongly, have supported us. Be strong when the images of dead Georgian children start filling the screen.

    So, anyone, no matter how evil should be helped by us no matter since they helped us at some point, even if their motives are self interest? Last I checked, Russia saved us in WWII and lost millions. Then by your logic we should be in Georgia fighting with the Russians against the Georgians.
    Also – dead children? What happened in Iraqi when we attacked? Only Iraqi soldiers died? That is your reason to fight Russia directly or even indirectly because civilians are killed and that makes them evil? Then what does that make us?

    While I will concede that Russia really did start this mess, I still do not see the point of defending Georgia and your arguments are not logical.

  39. 39
    jbarntt says:

    So, in what the Politico calls a 3 am test, John McCain responds belligerently towards Russia, and were he President there is no doubt it would exacerbate the situation, and it turns out that his top foreign policy advisor just so happened to be a wholly owned subsidiary of the nation of Georgia. Interesting. You would think the press would look into that, but right now they are kind of occupied with JOHN EDWARDS’ RUMORED TO BE GAY BUT ADULTEROUS PENIS.

    Why do you even bother ? Your posts are incoherent. Read what I quoted above.

    As best I can tell from from your rant, you favour Russia over Georgia. OK, so give me an argument, tell me why McCain is wrong. Also, what the heck does the scumbag Edwards have to do with this ?

    “ADULTEROUS PENIS” Nice, it wasn’t Edwards, it was that thing, the monster or whatever. Sorry Edwards is scum, making excuses rings hollow after the way Sen. Craig was treated, who did nothing more than disturb a police officer sitting on a toilet waiting for a gay man to come along.

  40. 40
    John Cole says:

    Assuming this is the same Wilfred, I wager that if Israel stumbled and agitated their way into a confrontation with Iran in the same way that Saakashvili has with Russia, you will be just as circumspect when McCain and Lieberman and others issue belligerent and hostile proclamations, and no doubt enthusiastically support our ally as they wage total war against Iran.

    Right?

  41. 41
    Johnny Pez says:

    the Georgia/Russian war (or whatever they are going to call it)

    Over on Wikipedia they’re calling it the 2008 South Ossetia War (to distinguish it from the 1991-1992 South Ossetia War).

  42. 42
    flyerhawk says:

    Just so I’m clear. Georgia began this particular series of violence, correct? They attack South Ossentia, correct? The citizens of that region or Russian, correct?

    But I should ignore all that and simply support a pretty repressive Georgia government because they sent some troops to Iraq? If North Korea sends troops to Iraq do they become our BFFs as well?

  43. 43
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    Just so I’m clear. Georgia began this particular series of violence, correct? They attack South Ossentia, correct? The citizens of that region or Russian, correct?

    I believe the most analoguous situation is when The South tried to secede from the United States. We fought a long and bloody war to keep them in the union, as Georgia is doing now. Other countries supported our efforts, some supported The South. The union prevailed and The South was retained.

    Fast forward 150 years. We know now we shoulda let those bassackwards cross-eyed cousin-humpin’ racist motherfuckers go. And that is what Georgia needs to do with South Ossetia.

  44. 44
    flyerhawk says:

    But didn’t Ossetia break apart 16 years ago? Wouldn’t you say it’s a little late in the day for Georgia to respond to Sumter?

    I would be more understanding of Ossetia broke apart 5 months ago. But 16 years ago? This seems like an intentional provocation by Georgia especially considering the timing.

  45. 45
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    Just so I’m clear. Georgia began this particular series of violence, correct? They attack South Ossentia, correct? The citizens of that region or Russian, correct?

    I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear: Geogia needs to let South Ossetia go.

  46. 46
    TenguPhule says:

    Wilfred Says:

    Fair play’s a jewel, and this is a cheap shot at McCain.

    We must always side with the guys who launch a surprise first strike on another country during the Olympics.

    Piss on McCain.

  47. 47
    Jim Henley says:

    Let’s face it, boys & girls: nobody’s going to vote for massive military spending increases to counter fucking GEORGIA. Of course McCain is coming out against Russia. The shareholders of our largest “defense” contractors demand it.

  48. 48
    TenguPhule says:

    At least McCain is showing some support for an ally that has actually bled for the United States. That used to count for something in this country.

    So all Israel has to do is send some troops to die in Iraq and Wilfred will be first in line to give their ass a long tongue bath.

  49. 49
    TenguPhule says:

    D-Chance. Says: Let’s help the assholes who attacked first during the Olympics! We have not yet plumbed the depths of world digust towards us!

  50. 50
    Wilfred says:

    Assuming this is the same Wilfred, I wager that if Israel stumbled and agitated their way into a confrontation with Iran in the same way that Saakashvili has with Russia, you will be just as circumspect when McCain and Lieberman and others issue belligerent and hostile proclamations, and no doubt enthusiastically support our ally as they wage total war against Iran.

    Right?

    Yeah, it’s the same guy – and your analogy is as Republican-based pattern thinking as ever.

    For one thing, there is the slight question of gerogia’s help in Iraq which nobody wished to deal with. Consensus – fuck them.

    This entire thread is an exercise in Imperial thinking – the kind that only recognizes power and perpetuates the official story, which can be summarized as ‘Oh, those dastardly Georgians – How dare they attack the poor Russians, sob.’
    How many people have read anything other than the official story?

    So all Israel has to do is send some troops to die in Iraq and Wilfred will be first in line to give their ass a long tongue bath.

    I’d probably have a little respect for the chicken shit cocksuckers, although I’d still despise them for invading and occupying Lebanon for 18 years. You remember the outrage about that, don’t you?

  51. 51
    Wilfred says:

    One more thing. The principle involved here, at least to me, is that the insistence on ‘pragmatism’ in this case is highly slelective given that when others argue for a similar approach to the Israel-Palestinain situation we get hammered with nonsense about moral obligations and supporting an ally.

    So what’s different, precisely? How many of you uttered strong complaints when Israel attacked and occupied Lebanon for 18 years?And it was you, John, who brought Israel into the argument, not me.

    Why can’t the analogy be: Well, we didn’t object when our ally invaded and occupied another country then, how can we do so now?

  52. 52
    flyerhawk says:

    Wilfred,

    You still haven’t explain why we should back Georgia, the nation that started this particular war.

    Do you disagree with the facts? Do you not agree that George started shooting first? Or does that not matter to you?

  53. 53
    Wilfred says:

    Do you not agree that George started shooting first? Or does that not matter to you?

    I think that truth is the first casualty of war. I have also read that the Russians have made numerous provocations against Georgia in the past so to make Georgia the ‘aggressor’ seems a bit ridiculous to me.

    You can do whatever the fuck you want. As for the idea that a country with a population of little over 4 million is the ‘aggressor’ against a country of, what, 150 million, sounds like the Ministry of Truth is at work, just like it was when Russia destroyed the Chechnyan aggressors.

    We, the US won’t do anything, of course. Our politicians are busy threatening to counter Iranian aggression with nuclear winter.

  54. 54

    […] Russia’s kicking our client’s ass. Maybe that’s why Bush didn’t sit next to Putin today like he did during the opening ceremonies. It would be nice to think that, but Bush has been Putin’s butt boy since day one. And John McCain? His campaign manager has a lot of ’splaining to do. […]

  55. 55
    flyerhawk says:

    Wilfred,

    So you aren’t really interested in discussion, are you?

    Ministry of Truth? So rather than actually provide a rebuttal you are just going to make allusions to our media being controlled and not telling us the real story?

    Actual data would make your case seem, well, at least not completely preposterous.

Trackbacks & Pingbacks

  1. […] Russia’s kicking our client’s ass. Maybe that’s why Bush didn’t sit next to Putin today like he did during the opening ceremonies. It would be nice to think that, but Bush has been Putin’s butt boy since day one. And John McCain? His campaign manager has a lot of ’splaining to do. […]

  2. […] John Cole cuts through the superficial Politico coverage of the candidates’ responses to the war in Georgia and comes to the right conclusion: So, in what the Politico calls a 3 am test, John McCain responds belligerently towards Russia, and were he President there is no doubt it would exacerbate the situation, and it turns out that his top foreign policy advisor just so happened to be a wholly owned subsidiary of the nation of Georgia. […]

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