Just So We Are Clear

Just so we are clear about this- the latest whinge from the “fiscal conservatives” at Red State, Hot Air, the Corner, and elsewhere is that Obama won’t use public financing to finance his campaign. And they are serious about pushing this line of attack?

I am understanding this correctly, right?






113 replies
  1. 1
    demkat620 says:

    Yes.

    Self-awareness, they don’t has it.

  2. 2
    sivapith says:

    Sure they’re serious. And they were all in favor of McCain-Feingold all along, too.

  3. 3
    PsiFighter37 says:

    The whining from the McCain campaign today has been deafening. Someone get the whole lot of them a bunch of pacifiers to suck on.

  4. 4
    nightjar says:

    I always thought republicans believed in free speech and that money is the lifeblood of free speech. Isn’t that one reason they’re pissed at MCcain over his Campaign Finance Reform legislation? I guess money is free speech only if you got more of it than the other guy.

    Wingnut conundrum of the week.

  5. 5
    montysano says:

    I am understanding this correctly, right?

    Geez, at least I’m not alone. I heard Hannity bawling about this and was completely confused. I mean…….. “Thanks, I’ll pay for it myself” is a bad thing?

  6. 6
    Otto Man says:

    They consider public financing and Democrats to be equally evil, so they’re frightened when the two aren’t joined at the hip.

    Fear. It’s all they have left.

  7. 7
    Mike Lamb says:

    I don’t get how they push this given the games McCain played with public financing during the primaries…

  8. 8
    Otto Man says:

    The real tragedy here, of course, is that all the open-minded independents who read those websites will now think twice about voting for Obama.

  9. 9
    montysano says:

    They consider public financing and Democrats to be equally evil, so they’re frightened when the two aren’t joined at the hip.

    That made absolutely no sense…… oh, wait.

    Fear. It’s all they have left.

    No doubt. I’ve been even gloomier than usual lately, and then I realized: I’ve been dreading this 6 month stretch for a while now. Because, you know, it’s just hard to imagine Dick Cheney cleaning out his desk, shrugging “Well, we tried”, and then heading off into the sunset.

  10. 10
    Emma Anne says:

    They’re pissed that a Dem won’t unilaterally disarm. They’ve grown accustomed to it.

  11. 11
    misc says:

    Emma Anne hit the nail on the head.

    “They’re pissed that a Dem won’t unilaterally disarm. They’ve grown accustomed to it.”

  12. 12
    Ted says:

    I am understanding this correctly, right?

    Yes. But they won’t ever admit the real reason why they’re so upset about this.

  13. 13
    D. Mason says:

    Because, you know, it’s just hard to imagine Dick Cheney cleaning out his desk, shrugging “Well, we tried”, and then heading off into the sunset.

    It’s hard to imagine because it isn’t going to happen. With the new trend in presidential powers I can envision a scenario where the “president” orders security firms to block off polling places nation wide, which can’t be challenged in court because the prez sez. Obviously, if the people refuse to even vote for the new candidates, they want more Bush and so no changes should take place. Duh.

  14. 14
    ThymeZone says:

    The GOP is pretty desperate. And apparently, according to Olbermann tonight, the McCain campaign waited until today several hours after Obama made his funding announcement to, um, announce that they intend to take public campaign funds, which was their half of the “agreement” that they assert was broken … except that there never was any actual agreement in the first place. There was only a proposed agreement which was never consummated by the two sides.

    Meanwhile, also per Olbermann, McCain has been dancing around the rules all this time and spending privately raised money which he now will have to eschew. And riding for free on his wife’s jet plane without reimbursing her firm, as required by law.

    Here’s the deal: If McCain wants to have a long argument about ethics and flip-flopping, I think our side is prepared to have it. And as luck would have it, we’ll have three times their money to spread our view of the argument for the next five months.

    Heh. It sucks to be them right now. Pwned again.

  15. 15
    Ted says:

    It’s hard to imagine because it isn’t going to happen.

    While I guess it’s fun to imagine Bush/Cheney as evil enough to be would-be coup dictators, it isn’t productive. I heard all of the same hysterical screaming about this, shortly before Clinton left office, from my wingnut mother, Rush Limbaugh, and plenty of other wingers at the time. Bush and Cheney will leave office. I seriously doubt either one is currently really enjoying their power more than they would enjoy retiring and putting their tens of millions to use.

  16. 16
    skippy says:

    sorry for the obvious blogwhoring, but i just this minute wrote a post on skippy in which i link to and quote a commentor (a self-described “republican for obama”) on the latimes political blog who points out that the repubbblicans are complaining that obama isn’t taking welfare like john mcsame is:

    leave it to my party, the party of “limited government”, the party that hates wasteful spending, the party that likes to call any spending by government “socialist”, to complain when a candidate doesn’t take money from the public pocket in order to run a campaign.

    (scroll down to the last blockquote for the whole comment).

  17. 17
    John O says:

    Yep, Obama is making public financing actually live.

    And I know as an absolute that everyone on both sides of the aisle knows that money in politics, and the problems therein, is the one purely non-partisan purely capitalistic paradigm in American politics outside the (illegal) drug market.

    We’re in trouble. I don’t think we’re going to survive Bush 2. At least not in my lifetime.

  18. 18
    D. Mason says:

    it isn’t productive

    That’s your problem right there. You think blog comments are meant to be productive.

  19. 19
    Ted says:

    That’s your problem right there. You think blog comments are meant to be productive.

    :) No, I know they can be perfectly useless. It’s just that you probably wouldn’t want to sound just like the Clinton-hating conspiracy theorists back then. “Bill and Hillary won’t leave office!! They’ll prevent the election! They’ll declare MARTIAL LAW!!1”

    It was embarrassingly absurd from the wingnuts. It’s still absurd coming from non-wingnuts.

  20. 20
    MDee says:

    Hey, if Republicans and the media are wailing about something being unfair it’s all good for Democrats.

  21. 21
    RSA says:

    As painful as it is to try to get inside the head of a wingnut (not much room in there), here’s my speculation:

    The thrust of the attack will not be whether public financing is a good thing or not; rather, it’ll be an accusation that Obama is a hypocrite for suggesting he’d take it and then doing something different. At least, that’s the phrase that keeps coming up: a broken promise.

  22. 22
    Church Lady says:

    Add Russ Feingold to those pissed at Obama.

    Add to the stew – it turns out the RNC has a bigger war chest than the DNC (possibly thanks to Dean and his 50 state strategy), which may have also been part of the consideration. The RNC has more money to spend in support of McCain than the DNC has to spend in support of Obama.

  23. 23
    John O says:

    RSA,

    You’re absolutely right, that’s what the GOP will try. But I’m telling you, Average Joe and Josette long ago gave up on “money and politics.” They both know it all smells like shit, and this won’t even be a story a couple weeks from now, as Obama makes the point that he’s getting a lot of “public financing” money.

    It most certainly won’t be a general election issue. It’s 24/7/365 news run riot.

  24. 24
    Darkrose says:

    It was embarrassingly absurd from the wingnuts. It’s still absurd coming from non-wingnuts.

    The difference is that Bill never tried to suspend habeas corpus, or legalize torture, or get Congress to give him the authority to declare war.

  25. 25
    montysano says:

    While I guess it’s fun to imagine Bush/Cheney as evil enough to be would-be coup dictators, it isn’t productive. I heard all of the same hysterical screaming about this, shortly before Clinton left office, from my wingnut mother, Rush Limbaugh, and plenty of other wingers at the time. Bush and Cheney will leave office.

    I truly hope you’re right, and if believing the other scenario is possible qualifies me for a tinfoil hat, so be it. But the level of volatility in the world right now, on a number of fronts, is cranked up as pretty high right now. Finance, food, energy, climate. Too much stuff in flux.

  26. 26
    handy says:

    rather, it’ll be an accusation that Obama is a hypocrite for suggesting he’d take it and then doing something different. At least, that’s the phrase that keeps coming up: a broken promise.

    Right. That’s how they’re spinning this, not necessarily the fact itself that Obama won’t opt for public financing. I mean, it’s kind of clever, in a way, except that Obama has shown himself enough of a gamesman that I think he can really push back on this and go:

    “OK, you want to have a conversation about campaign finance reform and the influence of money in politics? Well, alright, let’s talk about that, then!”

    Because, if not according to the letter of the law, Obama’s campaign is definitely living by the spirit of campaign finance reform. McCain, not so much.

  27. 27
    Ted says:

    The difference is that Bill never tried to suspend habeas corpus, or legalize torture, or get Congress to give him the authority to declare war.

    Even still: Bush refusing to vacate his office is nah ga ha pen. The vile piece of shit, believe it or not, is still concerned about his “legacy”. Even he would not want his legacy in the history books to be the president who ended the American experiment in self-government.

    I’m completely on board with the idea that the GOP as a party will do everything legal and illegal that it can to keep the WH. But that’s not quite the same thing as Bush and his cabinet refusing to get their asses out of the WH.

  28. 28
    SteveinSC says:

    OT, but also on Keith tonight was the news that the “spheres of influence” for the oil cartel have been released. The expected suspects EXXON-Mobil, BP, etc., have all gotten their prizes, paid for by the blood and destruction of Iraqi and American alike. What’s interesting is that one of the first off-smells I got from the run-up to the war was some map of Iraq with the country divided not into provinces, but concessions with each one identified for an oil company. I don’t believe I am hallucinating here, but at my age who knows? On the other hand, it certainly makes one wonder about Cheney and his secret meetings with the oil companies developing an “energy policy” back in 2001.

  29. 29
    John O says:

    montysano,

    Well said. Predicting the future is for idiots, or Corporate Masters, to be a little redundant.

    I’m a big picture guy, too, and I won’t trust a single poll until Nov. 5, because of my rock-solid knowledge of the number of people who won’t vote for Obama because he’s black. Many of those polled are self-aware not to go public on their own racism.

    The funny thing is that he’s far “whiter” than most Whitey.

  30. 30
    handy says:

    The funny thing is that he’s far “whiter” than most Whitey.

    Why, some might say he’s even an effete elitist!

  31. 31
    JL says:

    Good for Barack and hopefully he’ll keep his pledge to rein in PACS because that’s the one McCain couldn’t go for. He sorta liked the Swift Boaters against Kerry.

  32. 32

    Ted writes: While I guess it’s fun to imagine Bush/Cheney as evil enough to be would-be coup dictators…

    No need for imagination. Not only did they have a successful coup in 2000, they went on to invade and occupy a couple other countries.

  33. 33
    John O says:

    “…polled are self-aware ENOUGH not to go public…”

    Also, as the whitest person in the world except I can dance and hate The Man, I wholeheartedly include myself in my characterization of “Whitey.”

    Leaving aside that I think I can kick Obama’s ass at hoops. At least if I was playing as often as he was.

  34. 34
    Jon H says:

    It isn’t even really the “bad” kind of public financing, because it comes from the purely voluntary $3 checkbox on your tax form.

  35. 35
    Ted says:

    montysano,

    Well said. Predicting the future is for idiots, or Corporate Masters, to be a little redundant.

    Maybe. But I’ll go ahead and predict that there will be a peaceful transition to the next president on Jan 20, 2009, just as there always has been. If I’m wrong, well, I’ll legally change my name to Bill Kristol.

    Even a good portion of Republican voters would turn against Bush if he staged a coup. The party ideologues wouldn’t, but the everyday people we all know in our lives who vote Republican are not just going to think the situation was acceptable. Maybe that’s just naive faith, but in that hypothetical, I hope not.

  36. 36
    JL says:

    McCain has changed every position he has had since 2000 but he is called a maverick by the MSM and Obama opted out of public finacing is he is called a flip-flopper, what’s up with that??? Now ABC News is talking about McCain the populist. What The H.. By the way what’s on the food network. I might have to start watching that.

  37. 37
    Paul says:

    {sarcasm}But…but…Obama promised to take public financing. He’s a flip-flopping latte loving librul! How dare he go back on HIS WORD! {/sarcasm}

  38. 38
    John O says:

    Ted, I hope you’re right, but I lived through the ’60’s, know a little history, and believe history repeats itself only until we can’t stand it anymore. I’m not sure we’re there.

    History doesn’t like its change agents, and even though I hate Obama’s Kumbaya shit when it comes to getting along with what is left of the GOP, the perception is that he’s an agent of change.

    Like I said, I hope you’re right. I also hope you’ll break some windows with me if you’re not. *wry grin* I was a LITTLE too young in the ’60’s, but I sure did admire those DFH’s stopping the war for all intents and purposes. They changed the world.

    For a little while. But at least it can be done.

  39. 39
    Seanly says:

    hahahahahahahaha

    John, please tell me you are not actually expecting consistent positions and beliefs from conservatives. Especially not conservative bloggers.

  40. 40
    SpotWeld says:

    The Republicans are sniveling.. they’re a last pace runner in a foot race whose ego can’t handle it and are breaking down. Only to shout “Hey..no fair, you’re running too fast for me to catch up”

    McCain is flailing and is pretty much lost any respect his party ever had for him in the first place.

    All that’s left are the 29% of the population that fear anything except the thick walls of their self-made prisons and the warm pleasing and non-threatening tones of their talk radio.

  41. 41
    jibeaux says:

    At least, that’s the phrase that keeps coming up: a broken promise.

    As a taxpayer, I’m over it.

  42. 42
    Jorge says:

    Seriously, the worst case scenario the Republicans are painting is that Obama was pro-public financing at one point and then changed his mind after he realized that he could raise hundreds of millions following self-inflicted rules that include not taking money from lobbyist or PACs?

    So, they are basically in Hillary after February mode – we know we are going to lose so day in and day out we are going to throw the kitchen sink at Obama. And like it happened with Hillary, the only thing that will really affect Obama will be external issues like Rev Wright or possible verbal gaffes from Obama himself. McCain can’t win it – he needs Obama to lose it.

  43. 43
    Incertus says:

    Add Russ Feingold to those pissed at Obama.

    I like Feingold, I really do, but he’s a bit of a puritan on some stuff, and I’d rather have a realist in the top job.

  44. 44
    Stevenovitch says:

    Anyone interested in being honest with themselves will recognize that the stances of both candidates represents a rejection of core party principals in favor of political advantage, and realizing that winning is probably more important at this point, will learn to live with the fact that this whole game is full of shit.

  45. 45
    jamfan says:

    I dunno about this playing out badly for Obama. My Comcast home page, arbiter of the most bottom-line conventional wisdom there is, had this as its headline: “Obama vows not to use public financing for campaign.” Which makes him sound like a hero.

  46. 46
    Stevenovitch says:

    @jamfan:

    Other, more influential, organizations are looking at it from a different angle.

  47. 47
    skippy says:

    as painful as it is to try to get inside the head of a wingnut (not much room in there)

    gee, i thought it would be empty…

  48. 48
    ShouldKnowBetter says:

    gee, i thought it would be empty

    While you’d figure ignorance would make for tons of extra room, it turns out fear and bigotry expand to occupy the available space.

  49. 49
    joe says:

    Whenever you read about the righties launching a pointless, self-defeating, or useless attack like this, you have to rememnber: what else are they going to talk about?

    Iraq? The economy?

    They know that campaign finance + offshore drilling = teh victory is a losing bet, but what else are they going to do?

  50. 50

    This is a good opportunity for actual fiscal conservatives to call McCain out on his CFR BS. And it’s high-larious to hear goofs like Hannity whining about Obama not taking public money. So I take it Hannity’s for campaign finance reform now?

  51. 51
    vwcat says:

    mcShame was still throwing his temper tantrum tonight about this.
    Of course, not only is he going public financing because he cannot raise much money on his own but, now the RNC is going to have help him out. All their money will go to the Convention and helping out McShame.
    In the meantime Obama is probably going raise between 300 and 500 million. It would be great to see Obama raise so much from us poor common folk that the Rnc goes bankrupt trying to keep up.
    He’ll do to them what he did to Hillary in pennsylvania. lol

  52. 52
    ThymeZone says:

    winning is probably more important at this point, will learn to live with the fact that this whole game is full of shit.

    Oh, I agree. I think we should just roll over and let the GOP go ahead and win this election. What’s most important is that they feel that they are being fairly treated in this thing. So if they have a candidate who can’t raise money because nobody likes him well enough to give him money, we should give him a way to keep our guy from raising any money either. That’s totally fair, and if they win, so be it, because … well …

    SHUT UP THAT’S WHY. JUST LEAVE JOHN McCAIN ALONE! LEAVE HIM ALONE!

  53. 53
    Dennis - SGMM says:

    In other news, Obama refuses to carry 100 lbs. of rocks on campaign and refuses to stop giving speeches.

  54. 54
    rob! says:

    some talking head on NPR was miffed at Obama for this, and sneered at the “big money insiders” who have given him a lot of money, “…people who have given him $1,000 or more.”

    giving Obama as little as a grand makes you a big money insider?!? i’ve given him close to that at this point, in drips and drabs. i doubt anyone would confuse me for a “big money insider.” i’m small, broke, and outside.

    plus, isn’t the end result of this Obama NOT taking $80 million of taxpayers money? and that’s bad HOW?

  55. 55
    Brachiator says:

    Just so we are clear about this- the latest whinge from the “fiscal conservatives” at Red State, Hot Air, the Corner, and elsewhere is that Obama won’t use public financing to finance his campaign. And they are serious about pushing this line of attack?

    I am understanding this correctly, right?

    First there was the RickRoll.

    Now there is the ObamaRoll.

    McCain and Company thought that they would be able to limit Obama’s funding, but still be able to make use of all those little loopholes that allow well-heeled supporters fund indirect attacks. Now these bastards have been put on the defensive and will have to scramble a bit to re-assess their strategy.

    Ted Says:

    Even a good portion of Republican voters would turn against Bush if he staged a coup. The party ideologues wouldn’t, but the everyday people we all know in our lives who vote Republican are not just going to think the situation was acceptable. Maybe that’s just naive faith, but in that hypothetical, I hope not.

    9:00 Bush and Cheney stage a coup.
    9:01 Citing “the inability to discharge the powers and duties of the said office,” Bush and Cheney are removed from office. Nancy Pelosi becomes Acting President.
    9:15 The Republicans ask the Supreme Court to intervene.
    10:30 The Court rules 9-0 that Bush and Cheney cannot subvert the Constitution and still remain as Constitutional officers. They then rule 5-4 that a strict interpretation of the Presidential Succession Act makes members of Congress ineligible to be part of the line of succession.
    10:45 Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice becomes Acting President.

    11:00 Revolution or Civil War

  56. 56
    Delia says:

    Well, the McCains are doing what they can to keep up. They’ve got Cindy back on the Today Show, hectoring Michelle about that old “proud of my country” comment again. Of course that always runs the risk of reminding people how much Vicodin she stole or why they can’t sell one or two of their houses to Phil Gramm to finance their campaign.

  57. 57

    Tomorrow is the FEC reporting date for last months haul. Look for a very big number. McCain’s people knows it. Although McCain started raising a bit of coin, after tomorrow’s report look for the volume at WATB Central to increase. Unfortunately, McCain brought his practice amp to the gig and Obama will rollout his Stadium rocking sound system. Booyah! (He’s got 1.5 million small donors. Add in a good number of the Clinton big money people, along with his, and the fundraising potential is staggering.)

    I look forward to tomorrow’s announcement so the Republicans can have a taste of that STFU medicine they need.

    John McCain’s campaign skills are at best woefully inadequate. His team doesn’t amount to a pimple on the Clinton campaign teams ass, and Obama just finished them off. Thanksgiving is coming a little early this year because the turkey’s going to be ready on November 4th: Republican–its what’s for dinner.

  58. 58
    Beej says:

    Isn’t this the same John McCain who was recently(6/16/2008) featured at Crooks and Liars for doing 10 flip-flops in 2 weeks? Why I believe it is.

    Is the McCain camp really sure they want to talk about flip-flopping?

  59. 59

    BTW the Obama campaign DID NOT make this announcement today, just by accident. It is well timed and they have done this sort of thing since February. Because tomorrow is the FEC reporting deadline for May, AND it is Friday, guess what everyone is talking about all weekend? That skinny black guy with the funny name and his team just PWNED McCain. It won’t be the last time.

  60. 60
    Tim Fuller says:

    If Bush can get away with starting a fake war, ordering the torture of prisoners, etc., then I think he could think he would get away with martial law.

    Clinton take over the government? With what, a raging hard-on?

    Enjoy.

  61. 61

    Hello Church Lady,

    Add Russ Feingold to those pissed at Obama.

    This is also direct at the commenters as a whole.

    As a former Russ Feingold supporter I couldn’t care less that he is angered by Obama’s stance, even given that, I, myself, do not like Obama’s reversal.

    Russ Feingold loss people who ardently supported him when he did a two-step move. First, he decided not to run. Hardly a reason to cast him aside alone but discouraging nevertheless. Then came his harsh criticism of John Edwards and demand that Edwards drop out of the race.

    That did it for me, and I would suspect many other like myself. I even sent an email to stop receiving newletters from Feingold’s site and letting him know how pathetic I thought it was for a man who could have been a candidate but choose not to to tell another person to drop out.

    Russ Feingold’s opinion doesn’t mean much to me anymore, and even though I am slightly discouraged about Obama’s position now–There is a part of me that feels whatever is legal and gives Obama an advantage this election should be done.

    The stakes are too high; and given the fact that McCain has done a complete reversal on more pressing issues, I hardly feel that McCain would be any different from a third Bush Term.

  62. 62
    Brachiator says:

    RSA Says:

    As painful as it is to try to get inside the head of a wingnut (not much room in there), here’s my speculation:

    The thrust of the attack will not be whether public financing is a good thing or not; rather, it’ll be an accusation that Obama is a hypocrite for suggesting he’d take it and then doing something different. At least, that’s the phrase that keeps coming up: a broken promise.

    It’s not just wingnuts. A yahoo news story accuses Obama of hypocrisy. But they get so focused on the trees of “public funding” that they can’t see the larger forest of the intent of the law (Analysis: Obama chose winning over his word):

    The move could be the death-knell for the post-Watergate federal financing system designed to lessen the large donors’ influence and reduce corruption.

    Since Obama’s fundraising is based on the ability to reach out to small donors, one might reasonably ask, “what’s the freakin’ problem?”

  63. 63
    handy says:

    some talking head on NPR was miffed at Obama for this, and sneered at the “big money insiders” who have given him a lot of money, “…people who have given him $1,000 or more.”

    giving Obama as little as a grand makes you a big money insider?!? i’ve given him close to that at this point, in drips and drabs. i doubt anyone would confuse me for a “big money insider.” i’m small, broke, and outside.

    Proof positive the pundit class is full of crapola.

  64. 64

    Yea, I know a lot of spelling/grammar mistakes but for the older heads here, they understand that is commonplace for my posts.

    The Newbies can figure them out themselves… :P

  65. 65
    D. Mason says:

    11:00 Revolution or Civil War

    Are we talking 11:00 a.m or p.m? I’m just not sure about a Civil War before lunch is all.

  66. 66
    NW says:

    I was utterly disgusted by AP writer Liz Sidoti’s unbelievably biased slam, or “analysis” against Senator Obama’s opting out of public financing today:

    http://www.time.com/time/polit.....04,00.html

    It was a particularly disturbing piece of “objective” political reporting, given the fact that Ms. Sidoti is the same reporter who (gushingly) gave Senator McCain donuts and his favorite coffee at an AP luncheon in April.

    Here is the video and Dana Milbank’s original report of the event:

    http://www.jedreport.com/2008/.....who-s.html

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....33_pf.html

  67. 67
    anne says:

    But but but he prooooooooooooomised. Except not really. Screw being nice or working out a deal, that would never be in his favor, he should use his huge money advantage to get his message out. Obama is still at a disadvantage with people not really know who the heck he really is. While everyone still thinks McCain is a “maverick”. The repugs are just jealous.

  68. 68
    Rome Again says:

    Even still: Bush refusing to vacate his office is nah ga ha pen. The vile piece of shit, believe it or not, is still concerned about his “legacy”. Even he would not want his legacy in the history books to be the president who ended the American experiment in self-government.

    He’s so worried about his legacy that he’s buying up land in Paraguay. Hmmm, South America, isn’t that where on-the-run Nazi’s went too?

  69. 69
    Rome Again says:

    OT, but also on Keith tonight was the news that the “spheres of influence” for the oil cartel have been released. The expected suspects EXXON-Mobil, BP, etc., have all gotten their prizes, paid for by the blood and destruction of Iraqi and American alike. What’s interesting is that one of the first off-smells I got from the run-up to the war was some map of Iraq with the country divided not into provinces, but concessions with each one identified for an oil company. I don’t believe I am hallucinating here, but at my age who knows? On the other hand, it certainly makes one wonder about Cheney and his secret meetings with the oil companies developing an “energy policy” back in 2001.

    You did see that map, there were a couple-few diaries featuring the map on Kos, which I’ve linked to in the past. Don’t have the link anymore, it’s on an old computer.

  70. 70
    Rome Again says:

    Even a good portion of Republican voters would turn against Bush if he staged a coup. The party ideologues wouldn’t, but the everyday people we all know in our lives who vote Republican are not just going to think the situation was acceptable. Maybe that’s just naive faith, but in that hypothetical, I hope not.

    I’d like to think you’re right, but with gas soaring to new highs, groceries becoming difficult to afford, housing foreclosures on the rise and and every form of criminal cronyism being let loose with wild abandon, I fear we may not even have an electorate to hold elections in the near future. This country is going down at our current rate. Look for an upcoming depression to either create an new FDR or a new form of hell on earth.

  71. 71
    Rome Again says:

    Republican—its what’s for dinner.

    No thanks, I’m afraid of that saying: “You are what you eat”.

  72. 72
    Conservatively Liberal says:

    The Grand Panjandrum Says:

    BTW the Obama campaign DID NOT make this announcement today, just by accident. It is well timed and they have done this sort of thing since February. Because tomorrow is the FEC reporting deadline for May, AND it is Friday, guess what everyone is talking about all weekend? That skinny black guy with the funny name and his team just PWNED McCain. It won’t be the last time.

    I was laughing my ass off when I heard Obama announce this. Like you, I caught the significance of this move immediately and I laughed even harder. Barack SO PWNED them with this move that all they can do is whine about a lame promise that was never made. So he won’t suck at the teat of government? Please wingnuts, explain to me how this is a bad thing and do it in a way that your head doesn’t explode.

    Obama is taking “public financing” to a whole new level, a level that the right was not expecting this election. They, like the rest of us, had no idea that his direct donations would come from so many individuals, nor did they comprehend the possible numbers that many small donors could generate. So us Obama donors are the new “Big Money”? Good! It’s about time we regain some control over our politicians.

    Obama answers to his donors, like any other politician. It’s just that his donors happen to be a lot of regular people who are sick and tired of where our government is going.

    If anyone in the party is pissed about Obama ‘sucking all of the air’ out of the party or individual candidate donations, they only have themselves to blame. Obama is getting the cash because he is the hope for a change in the direction of our country. They are the people currently at the helm of government, and sadly in many cases they themselves are our enemy. They made things what they are now (look at FISA, Iraq and everything else) with their weak spines and only looking as far ahead as the next election cycle.

    They made things a mess, and they really show no inclination to change. If they want donations, then they better start singing a prettier tune because they have been off-key for years and I am sick of listening to them. Obama is going to be loaded for bear this fall, and unlike McCain, he is not going to need outside cash. If the DNC rolls with Obama, then they will do well too. But as far as the individual candidates, let them stand on their own records.

    If they can’t raise money with that, then they don’t deserve to be in office.

  73. 73
    Rome Again says:

    Obama is taking “public financing” to a whole new level, a level that the right was not expecting this election. They, like the rest of us, had no idea that his direct donations would come from so many individuals, nor did they comprehend the possible numbers that many small donors could generate. So us Obama donors are the new “Big Money”? Good! It’s about time we regain some control over our politicians.

    I have to admit, I’m one of those people who never directly contributed money to a campaign until this one.

  74. 74
    AnneLaurie says:

    It’s just that you probably wouldn’t want to sound just like the Clinton-hating conspiracy theorists back then. “Bill and Hillary won’t leave office!! They’ll prevent the election! They’ll declare MARTIAL LAW!!1”

    It was embarrassingly absurd from the wingnuts. It’s still absurd coming from non-wingnuts.

    Except the fReichtards live by the Vigurey/Rove maxim “Attack your opponent for your OWN worst flaws”. Think about all the “family value” Repubs who were busted for adultery or worse at the same time they were spending six million dollars of OUR money to examine Bill Clinton’s penis. Or the “fiscal conservative” Repubs who’ve been jailed for stealing everything they could carry.

    So, if the Noisy Right was screaming that Clinton would declare martial law & refuse to leave office, we can presume they intend their C-Plus Augustus to hold onto “his” Oval Office no matter what the electorate or the Constitution says. (Hey, by the popular vote Dubya wasn’t actually *elected* in 2000, so he’s theoretically eligible for another term, reicht?)

    Whether Baby Bush *wants* to spend as much as one extra day in DC, or whether the Cheney Administration could *succeed* in declaring martial law — and I agree the answer to both those issues is a giant NO — has nothing to do with what the Limbaugh wing of the Repub Party considers “their due“, to quote one of their leading lights.

  75. 75

    I’m really a very smart guy who has paid attention to politics his entire life and with GeorgeII such a lame duck that he doesn’t have a leg to stand on the Democrats are going to fold on FISA, I no longer understand a fucking thing. My goddam head is about to explode. WTF

  76. 76
    bago says:

    Yeah, another one of those first time donors. Really, what’s 600 bucks when I can prevent my brother being sent off to Iraq for a third tour? A pretty goddamned cheap way to save the lives of people you love.

  77. 77
    Rome Again says:

    I’m really a very smart guy who has paid attention to politics his entire life and with GeorgeII such a lame duck that he doesn’t have a leg to stand on the Democrats are going to fold on FISA, I no longer understand a fucking thing. My goddam head is about to explode. WTF

    I don’t know why you are surprised. I knew our current Dem majority was going to amount to a hill of beans as soon as the Pelosi coronation began playing on the teevee.

    Very few of the people who grace the halls of congress with a D behind their name truly believe in “small d democracy”.

    Personally, I think we should sunset their paychecks and drag them back to a level that makes them price out their meals in grocery stores and pump their own fucking gas.

  78. 78
    Conservatively Liberal says:

    I’m really a very smart guy who has paid attention to politics his entire life and with GeorgeII such a lame duck that he doesn’t have a leg to stand on the Democrats are going to fold on FISA, I no longer understand a fucking thing. My goddam head is about to explode. WTF

    Some possibilities:

    1: Bush/Cheney got some dirt on a couple of key Democrats and are using them to push this through.

    2: Some Democrats are using this to cover their own asses, as per Johnathan Turley.

    3: DINO’s are more than happy to do this so they look tough on terrorists to their constituents.

    Whatever the hell it is, it looks like they are going to pull the trigger on it. Reid and Pelosi are two of the worst people we could have put in charge. They are both weak links, and the party as a whole are weaker because of them. They do not lead, they follow. If either of them ever had an original idea in their head, it probably died a lonely death. The faster we can lose these empty shells, the better.

    Bush is weak, the Republicans are in disarray and Obama is kicking ass, so now the Democrats feel it is the time to capitulate to Bush on FISA. Once again they snatch defeat from the jaws of victory as only a Democrat can do.

  79. 79
    scarshapedstar says:

    Even [Bush] would not want his legacy in the history books to be the president who ended the American experiment in self-government.

    Erm… aren’t we forgetting a certain stolen election?

  80. 80
    Baron Elmo says:

    I understand how the Republican modus operandi is attack, attack, attack, no matter what… but dogpile on Obama for refusing to get his campaign funds from the public financing slop bucket? Scandalwise, that’s some pret–ty thin gruel.

    Seems far more prudent for the Goopers to shove the whole campaign finance issue beneath the biggest rock they can find, considering McCain’s archipelago-size reversal on the same issue… but I suppose that rabid-mutt instinct to go for the Democrat jugular in too encoded in the GOP DNA.

    If Obama saved a little boy from a burning tenement building, Hannity, Limbaugh, Malkin and the would wonder out loud why he didn’t pack the kid an overnight bag before fleeing the blaze. “Doesn’t Obama realize that this child will need fresh underpants tomorrow…?”

  81. 81
    Xenos says:

    I understand how the Republican modus operandi is attack, attack, attack, no matter what… but dogpile on Obama for refusing to get his campaign funds from the public financing slop bucket? Scandalwise, that’s some pret—ty thin gruel.

    The McCain-Feingold regime allows for a candidate with broad support to opt out of public financing and to rely on lots of small donors. This is a feature, not a bug. The regime also allows lots of large donors to the party, which I like less but is likewise a fully intended feature.

    What is troubling is the shenanigans and illegal actions on the part of McCain’s opting in, then out, of public financing for the primary. Obama’s counterpunch of this issue is a few hours overdue… he is missing, skipping, a news cycle for some reason.

  82. 82

    Chuck Butcher Says:

    I’m really a very smart guy who has paid attention to politics his entire life and with GeorgeII such a lame duck that he doesn’t have a leg to stand on the Democrats are going to fold on FISA, I no longer understand a fucking thing. My goddam head is about to explode. WTF

    Interesting theory I saw last night. The Dem leadership, including Pelosi, knew about the illegal wiretapping and are therefore legally liable if nothing is done. Therefore, she and Hoyer are folding here because they are in legal jeopardy. Not sure why they’d get prosecuted. No one else in DC seems to.

  83. 83
    cleek says:

    your wondering if the professional Republican Cheerleading Team is serious about today’s anti-Democratic routine ?

    sure, they’re serious. they always want to put on a good show. it’s what the front office demands.

  84. 84
    The Briscoe Kid says:

    It’s not just wingnuts. A yahoo news story accuses Obama of hypocrisy. But they get so focused on the trees of “public funding” that they can’t see the larger forest of the intent of the law (Analysis: Obama chose winning over his word):

    I’m pretty sure this AP article was written by the John McCain suck-up who appears in this nauseating video.

    Ass kissing AP writers give John McCain terror donuts

  85. 85
    Xenos says:

    The Dem leadership, including Pelosi, knew about the illegal wiretapping and are therefore legally liable if nothing is done. Therefore, she and Hoyer are folding here because they are in legal jeopardy. Not sure why they’d get prosecuted. No one else in DC seems to.

    Maybe I am especially thick today, but I just don’t get this. Under what damn theory are they liable? Are they just politically culpable and want to sweep it all under the rug?

    The pieces just do not fit together in a coherent way. There must be some large issues that we just don’t know about – another example of how secrecy is the enemy of democracy and republicanism.

  86. 86
    Mary says:

    Yes, TBK, it is the same person.

    The Associated Press’ Liz Sidoti last generated attention in March, when, at a conference for the nation’s newspaper editors, she greeted McCain with a box of Dunkin’ Donuts. Sidoti made sure she got McCain his favorite kind — “Oh, yes, with sprinkles!” he said — and then passed McCain a cup. “A little coffee with a little cream and a little sugar,” she said.

    Now, it appears Sidoti appears anxious to do McCain another favor, by writing a scathing, 900-word reprimand of Barack Obama’s decision to bypass the public financing system in the general election.

    Barack Obama chose winning over his word.

    The Democrat once made a conditional agreement to accept taxpayer money from the public financing system, and accompanying spending limits, if his Republican opponent did, too. No more.

    The chance to financially swamp John McCain — and maneuver for an enormous general election advantage — proved too great an allure. Obama, a record-shattering fundraiser, reversed course Thursday and decided to forgo some $85 million so he could raise unlimited amounts of money and spend as much as he wants.

    Someone needs her fainting couch.

  87. 87
    yam says:

    Obama’s bringing a gun to a knife fight…

  88. 88
    Conservatively Liberal says:

    Obama’s bringing a gun howitzer to a knife fight…

    Upgraded. ;)

  89. 89
    Zifnab says:

    Maybe I am especially thick today, but I just don’t get this. Under what damn theory are they liable? Are they just politically culpable and want to sweep it all under the rug?

    The pieces just do not fit together in a coherent way. There must be some large issues that we just don’t know about – another example of how secrecy is the enemy of democracy and republicanism.

    I don’t really get it either. The worst Pelosi et al could be convicted of is passing shitty legislation to begin with. If simply “knowing” about illegal wiretapping was illegal, all but 28% of the country would be culpable. Are they legally obligated to pass legislation to block it? Are they legally obligated to investigate Administrative wrongdoing?

    Half the reason the illegal spying program existed was to throw us back to Nixonian Waterwater days of GOP dirt digging and election rigging. Perhaps all that wiretapping gave a few big players on the conservative side leverage against their Dem counterparts. Perhaps Eliot Spitzer is just the tip of the iceburg when it comes to Hookergate scandals that can be lobbed at the Democratic Party. That would be my bigger guess. A bunch of good ‘ole boys got caught with their pants’ around their ankles and now their too chicken shit to do the right thing.

  90. 90
    Zifnab says:

    Barack Obama chose winning over his word.

    The Democrat once made a conditional agreement to accept taxpayer money from the public financing system, and accompanying spending limits, if his Republican opponent did, too. No more.

    The chance to financially swamp John McCain — and maneuver for an enormous general election advantage — proved too great an allure.

    ZOMG! Barack Obama choose to opt out of an optional system, thus proving that he’s more interested in winning than clinging to some flawed and archaic financing system that rewards big businesses, PACs, and 527 loophole organizations. Rather than getting swift-boated to death, like his predecessor John Kerry, he’s been seduced to the dark side of campaigning by accepting millions of dollars from lobbyists special interest groups big business little old ladies! Zounds! Egad! The horror! The horror!

  91. 91
    grandpajohn says:

    well, now that mccain’s on welfare and obama isn’t, i guess mccain finally has something in common with the poor in this country.

    quote of the day

  92. 92

    […] Petty Arguments By Buck | June 20th, 2008 – 10:18 am John Cole, of Balloon-Juice, posts about the irony of right-wingnuts being up in arms over Obama refusing to use public financing to finance his campaign. […]

  93. 93
    bago says:

    So why has no-one made the obvious corollary? John McCain is Unaware of all Internet traditions!

  94. 94
    mark says:

    If Obama gets away with this, we will have a president who is the pawn of millions of voters!

  95. 95
    Dave in Maine says:

    Strategist: Obama Could Raise Up To Half A Billion!
    Barack Obama’s decision to forego public financing might just net him a whole lot more than the $80 million the government would have given him, with Dem strategist Tad DeVine saying that his small-donor base could bring in as much as $500 million. Even half that amount would allow him to fight in states previously considered off-limits for Democrats, and to really overpower John McCain if the Republican is unable to match it.

    You’d whine too if you knew you were going to be blasted like McCain is about to be.

  96. 96
    Dennis - SGMM says:

    Had McCain been able to raise money like Obama can he would would have dropped public financing like a hot rock and the same people, including the media, would have been clapping their flippers together with delight and praising him as “A true maverick, running as a candidate of the people.”

    As it stands, Republican end runs around the intent of public financing turned it into a sham. They made their bed, now they can cry themselves to sleep in it.

  97. 97
    Karmakin says:

    Half the reason the illegal spying program existed was to throw us back to Nixonian Waterwater days of GOP dirt digging and election rigging. Perhaps all that wiretapping gave a few big players on the conservative side leverage against their Dem counterparts. Perhaps Eliot Spitzer is just the tip of the iceburg when it comes to Hookergate scandals that can be lobbed at the Democratic Party. That would be my bigger guess. A bunch of good ‘ole boys got caught with their pants’ around their ankles and now their too chicken shit to do the right thing.

    My guess is that it’s not about dirt. It’s about “going nuclear”. Attacking the executive branch’s ability to work with outside agencies on constituional grounds, is the type of thing that the Republicans would LOVE to be able to do with a Democrat in the White House. Didn’t that stuff happen as well when FDR was trying to enact the New Deal?

    It’s like impeachment. Impeach Bush for lying and going to war in Iraq, Obama gets impeached when costs for starting up his health care plan are higher than expected.

    It sounds stupid, but does anybody really doubt that given half a chance the modern GOP wouldn’t act on these things? That’s just my opinion.

  98. 98
    johnosahon says:

    mcSAME is a FLIP FLOP, FLIP FLOP, FLIP FLOP, he has even flipped flopped on “his love for his country”, he said HE HATED AMERICAN UNTIL HE BECAME A PRISONER OF WAR.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....08191.html

  99. 99
  100. 100
    The Other Steve says:

    I’m sending Obama $5 for the general for every right wing whine about financing I see.

    Since I don’t get paid until next week, I’m going to stay away from hotair.com for now, though. Can’t afford it.

  101. 101
    Cris says:

    Add Russ Feingold to those pissed at Obama.

    I like Feingold, I really do, but he’s a bit of a puritan on some stuff, and I’d rather have a realist in the top job.

    So I thought I’d look into Feingold’s being “pissed at Obama,” and did a simple Google News search for “Russ Feingold.” The top results were about:

    Feingold rips compromise on federal wiretaps

    reminding us again of what actually matters.

  102. 102
    greynoldsct00 says:

    Am I late to the party with this?

  103. 103
    greynoldsct00 says:

    Aw, damn this link business…

  104. 104
    greynoldsct00 says:

    Aw, damn this link business…

    They have “I am aware of the Internet Traditions” t-shirts at Cafe Press

  105. 105
  106. 106
    Gregory says:

    Even “Nedra Sprinkles”’s piece acknowledged that Obama offered a conditional deal. McCain didn’t meet the conditions, as exemplified by the fact that he’s illegally spending primary funds for the general election right now.

    Obama didn’t break a promise. Obama put a deal on the table, McCain didn’t take it, so Obama walked away. It comes down to McCain turning down a deal Obama offered in a very public manner, and then complaining because Obama didn’t unilaterally disarm.

    The Republicans are having a fit because Obama’s action puts them at a disadvantage, and a huge one at that. End of story.

  107. 107

    […] …And John Cole points out the irony duplicity of fiscal conservatives shedding tears over the death of public election financing. […]

  108. 108
    Zifnab says:

    It’s like impeachment. Impeach Bush for lying and going to war in Iraq, Obama gets impeached when costs for starting up his health care plan are higher than expected.

    That only works when the pols have the public behind them. If the GOP starts lobbing around impeachment resolutions against a popular President as he attempts to implement popular reforms (as FDR was in the 30s), who wins?

    They burned out “cry wolf” a long, long time ago. A gooper who pulls this shit would cost his party valuable popular support and drain political capital that could be going towards funneling taxpayer money to his district – the only real job of every Congressman worth his seat. What congressional district will tolerate that for long?

  109. 109
    Brachiator says:

    scarshapedstar Says:

    Even [Bush] would not want his legacy in the history books to be the president who ended the American experiment in self-government.

    Erm… aren’t we forgetting a certain stolen election?

    Stealing elections is as American as apple pie. Canceling an election and remaining in office would be a step too far, even for Bush and Cheney.

  110. 110
    LarryB says:

    Church Lady Says:

    Add to the stew – it turns out the RNC has a bigger war chest than the DNC (possibly thanks to Dean and his 50 state strategy), which may have also been part of the consideration. The RNC has more money to spend in support of McCain than the DNC has to spend in support of Obama.

    Well, that’s because the DNC has been spending money it’s collected for the last 4 years building state party infrastructure. This will, presumably, pay off during the election in the form of volunteer and voter mobilization capability and a deeper bench of down-ticket candidates. That’s the theory, at least. If 2006 was any indicator, it has already started to pay off. Early returns look good for 2008 as well (note the recent red state special election wins). I’m a big fan of Dean and 50 state. You have to play to win and Democrats, for the first time, are getting ready to rumble everywhere, not just defending the coasts and union strongholds.

  111. 111

    Shorter Same McCain – “Barack Obama not allowing me to continue to game the system is gaming the system!”

  112. 112
    HyperIon says:

    Feingold rips compromise on federal wiretaps

    so…where is Obama on the FISA issue?

  113. 113

    so…where is Obama on the FISA issue?

    Guess we will find out when the Senate votes?

    I’m much more pissed at the House Dem’s spineless opposition (if you want to call it opposition) than I am at Obama bucking the financing issue.

    If he votes for immunization then I’ll actually be pissed at him.

Trackbacks & Pingbacks

  1. […] …And John Cole points out the irony duplicity of fiscal conservatives shedding tears over the death of public election financing. […]

  2. […] Petty Arguments By Buck | June 20th, 2008 – 10:18 am John Cole, of Balloon-Juice, posts about the irony of right-wingnuts being up in arms over Obama refusing to use public financing to finance his campaign. […]

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