Retiring the Debt

Via the Carpetbagger, it seems that the Clinton campaign debt is record-breaking, and it is not clear how it can be paid off:

With her campaign now officially suspended, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton is confronting still another challenge: whittling down what is believed to be the largest presidential campaign debt in history.

Besides the $11.4 million of her own money that Mrs. Clinton lent her campaign, she had about $9.5 million in unpaid bills to vendors at the end of April, according to her most recent filing with the Federal Election Commission.

It is unclear how much debt she will ultimately report, because the campaign is still adding up the figures for May, which it must file to the commission by June 20. But Mo Elleithee, a campaign spokesman, said, “We don’t expect the debt number to look significantly different than it did on our last report.”

Should we set up an ActBlue account to try to offset some of the debt, or will that not go to retiring the debt? Does anyone know? If it does, maybe if we start an ActBlue account, perhaps others will follow. It certainly seems like Clinton has been acting in very good faith, and we should as well. If anyone can definitively state that money donated today will pay down her debt, I will set one up ASAP.

I can’t believe I am contemplating fund-raising for the Clinton campaign.






179 replies
  1. 1
    FAP says:

    Yes please tell me how I can help a woman worth around 100 million dollars pay off her debts. I will dig deep for this great altruistic cause.

    BTW please help the others who need it the most. I hear Latrell Sprewell can barely feed his family.

    Oh the Humanity!

  2. 2
    salvage says:

    They should work out at what point her candidate status went from sure thing to maybe to not a chance and declare all the money after “not a chance” to her problem alone.

    her ego wrote the cheque, why should anyone else pay?

  3. 3
    marjowil says:

    she owes Mark Penn $5 million for that excellent campaign strategy and accurate polling of the non-caucus states that actually matter.

    Until she settles with him, anyone would be a fool to send $$ to enrich that slimeball in my opinion.

    Every available cent should go to Obama, not HRC. She wanted to be tasked with solving the nation’s economy… her own campaign debt should be plenty of a challenge for her to test her mettle. (ready from day one and all.)

  4. 4
    NR says:

    I’m torn.

    On the one hand, I never really disliked Hillary (it was always the people around her I couldn’t stand), and if she’s prepared to work hard for Obama, I wouldn’t be averse to helping her with her campaign debt.

    But on the other hand, that’s money that could be going to Obama, where it would help fight the Republicans. Part of me wants to say that the people who should help Hillary with her debt are the ones who’ve maxed out for Obama and can’t give any more anyway.

    I don’t know. It’s a tough question.

  5. 5
    DFD says:

    Sorry, but you can count me out.

  6. 6
  7. 7
    Jim says:

    I can’t believe I am contemplating fund-raising for the Clinton campaign.

    I can. I’ve been waiting patiently for the day when we return to party unity, and not just the capital-U Unity but actually making amends. By August, the past few months of bizarrely polarized Obama vs. Hillary skirmishing will feel like that strongly repressed episode wherein you ate a quarter ounce of ‘shrooms and ended up sitting in your friend’s driveway until 4 in the morning because the world had crystallized into a state of immutable fractal complexity and the Republicans were coming to whisk you away because They Knew that you had precipitated it.

    Assuming you had an experience like that, that is.

  8. 8
    Bobzim says:

    I can’t believe I am contemplating fund-raising for the Clinton campaign.

    I know what you mean!

    If by some sort of act of precedent setting stupidity Obama does choose Hillary as VP, can they put Bill in one of those blind trusts and let him cool his heels in limbo somewhere? Maybe kinda like this.

  9. 9
    mantis says:

    FYI, the only debt she will likely need help paying back is for the loans she made to her campaign. From Bloomberg:

    The rule banning Clinton from paying herself back after the nominating convention is part of a 2002 campaign-finance law co- sponsored by Obama’s Republican rival for the presidency, Senator John McCain of Arizona. The law had several provisions to make it more difficult for people to finance their own campaigns.

    Clinton’s debt also included $9.5 million in unpaid bills to vendors and consultants at the end of April, according to FEC records. More than of half, $4.8 million, was owed to the firm of Mark Penn, who stepped aside as her campaign’s chief strategist under criticism in April for backing a trade deal with Colombia that Clinton opposed.

    Unlike the rules for her personal loan, Clinton can tap her Senate campaign account to pay off the vendor debts. While the account had $277,480 as of March 31, she could ask the donors who gave her $23 million for the general election if they would be willing to re-designate that money for her 2012 Senate re- election campaign. That would give her more than enough cash to repay everyone but herself.

  10. 10
    OriGuy says:

    What the Clinton campaign could do is post a list of their accounts payable and people could designate that their contributions should be earmarked for a specific item. I wouldn’t mind helping to pay off the bill from a printer or caterer, but I’m not giving a dime for Mark Penn or Terry McAuliff.

    I’m not sure that would be legal, but IANAL.

  11. 11
    HumboldtBlue says:

    I can’t believe I am contemplating fund-raising for the Clinton campaign.

    You’re contemplating fundraising for a Democrat, one who could be the next Senate Majority Leader and one who is going to play an important role over the next 12 years.

  12. 12
    cleek says:

    nope.

    my spare cash isn’t going to help a millionaire pay her employees.

  13. 13
    Genine says:

    I think its an excellent idea! You’re a good and honorable man, John.

    And, I think, it sends the right kind of message. She is trying and if the story about her throwing all of her support behind Obama, including her delegates is true, then helping her out would be a good thing. Obviously we probably won’t hit 20 mil, but throwing some money in the kitty wouldn’t hurt!

    Its also a gesture that could bring unity and healing and forgiveness.

  14. 14
    Crusty Dem says:

    I don’t have a deep hatred of Hillary, and I’m happy with her behavior lately. Quite a quandry. How to decide?

    hmm. My money going to Mark Penn or my money going into my wallet. hmm.

    Still thinking.

    Thinking…

    umm, no. Hell no. No to the mother****ing no no no.

    But I wish her the best…

  15. 15
    Zifnab says:

    I can’t believe I am contemplating fund-raising for the Clinton campaign.

    Yeah, um… let me make this easier on you John. I, for one, will not be donating to the “pay off Hillary Clinton’s massive fuck up” fund. Especially suspecting a single dime would go to Mark Penn’s coffers.

    If she wants to come back to the party and play nice with Team Obama, she’s got my morale support. I save my financial support for people who weren’t total dickweeds just a month back.

    I’m not donating any money to retire the debt for Dennis Kuccinich or Bill Richardson either. I might consider chipping in for Chris Dodd. He’s cool.

  16. 16
    4tehlulz says:

    Unlike the rules for her personal loan, Clinton can tap her Senate campaign account to pay off the vendor debts. While the account had $277,480 as of March 31, she could ask the donors who gave her $23 million for the general election if they would be willing to re-designate that money for her 2012 Senate re- election campaign. That would give her more than enough cash to repay everyone but herself.

    I was thinking about it until I read this.

  17. 17
    DJShay says:

    I’d happily donate to her if I knew that the small vendors would be paid FIRST, and not douchebags like Penn and Ickes.

  18. 18
    Dennis - SGMM says:

    OT. MSNBC says that Obama’s VP vetting team has mentioned that James L. Jones, General, USMC (Retired) is one of the prospects. That they would mention his name publicly is significant.

  19. 19
    Bobzim says:

    Let ’em take more toys from that kid here in WV.

  20. 20
    John Cole says:

    You’re contemplating fundraising for a Democrat, one who could be the next Senate Majority Leader and one who is going to play an important role over the next 12 years.

    Where does this fantasy keep coming from about Hillary as Senate Majority Leader? Do some of you know something I don’t?

    If I remember correctly, there are something like 38 Democratic Senators ahead of Hillary (over 2/3 of the caucus) in terms of seniority, including quite a few individuals with rather large egos. Folks like Chuck Schumer, Joe Biden, Chris Dodd, and so forth. Why do people just naturally assume that Hillary is going to be vaulted to the top?

  21. 21
    Chris Johnson says:

    I’m not the slightest bit interested in helping Hillary pay down her debt

    I didn’t force her to run it up, and I pay my bills as I go.

    Mind explaining why she is entitled to resume the degree of outrageously wealthy she has become accustomed to?

    For fuck’s sake.

    [b]She could become bankrupt and penniless and there are THIRTEEN MILLION!! people out there who would gladly take her out to breakfast, lunch and dinner, let her stay with them as the most rockstar-ly honored guest imaginable, and entertain her in any way she likes and pick up the tab- for the REST OF HER LIFE.[/b]

    She is beyond rock star fame and adulation. There are people out there who would DIE for her. Money no longer matters to her in any real sense. Even stuff she wants done in the world is better done through leveraging her fame and making the right pitch.

    STFU about setting up little donation thingys to pay off her debt so she can return to being a hundred millionare. It’s really, really obscene, and also unobservant.

    Give the money in the form of donations to some local food bank to help feed some American who does NOT have an extended family of 13 million.

  22. 22
    Genine says:

    I wouldn’t mind helping to pay off the bill from a printer or caterer, but I’m not giving a dime for Mark Penn or Terry McAuliff.

    Oh, yeah. Good point. Is there anyway to do that? As much as I think it would be a cool gesture, I don’t want to give money to those douchebags.

  23. 23
    4tehlulz says:

    in b4 jim jones references

  24. 24
    Crusty Dem says:

    I can just see the actblue page now:

    We did it!!
    $0

    to date
    0
    $0

    Contribute:
    ActBlue

  25. 25
    mantis says:

    I was thinking about it until I read this.

    Me too, so I thought I’d pass it along.

  26. 26
    Bobzim says:

    No, No, No to Gen. Jones. You gotta be a special kind of nutty to get that much Jarhead Bling. We don’t need that.

  27. 27
    Xenos says:

    Let the record show that some of the vendors include caterers and other small business in Iowa, New Hampshire, and other early primary states. The campaign was reckless and irresponsible since January.

    Thank god the damage has been limited. No reward for bad behaviour, although I like the idea of the DNC raising funds to pay off the small businesses. Mark Penn gets nada, except what he can collect down the road from the Clintons.

    You think she could sell a book based on this primary? She could probably get an advance right now that could settle much of the debt.

  28. 28
    marjowil says:

    I would be willing to pay for that kid’s bike and video games. that’s about it. sorry, I have to prioritize.

  29. 29
    Chris Johnson says:

    I can has bbcode? NO! ;D

    Hell, man, if she came to my town I would absolutely give her crash space and buy her breakfast, lunch, and dinner just for the passion with which she energized lots of Democrats, and her empowerment message. And I’m dead set against further fundraising to pay off her debts.

    She should snap out of the ridiculous DLC rut she thinks life is all about, and reinvent herself as a sort of Bono.

  30. 30
    passerby says:

    It certainly seems like Clinton has been acting in very good faith, and we should as well.

    I’ll act in good faith to her by no longer mocking the catastrophic, ill-advised methods she used in order to quench her thirst for political power, AKA The Hillary Clinton Campaign.

    How much does she owe Mark Penn?

    Too bad we can’t earmark donations to go directly to unpaid vendors.

    I’m not one to reward bad behavior. Not even a penny’s worth.

    T

  31. 31
    Chris Johnson says:

    Let the debts to small business stand. As a warning, and a reminder that superstars have their dark side.

    Hillary inspired millions, but that alone doesn’t mean she or her people are trustworthy. It’s important to remember that they’re not. Enjoy the inspiration but don’t give them your checkbook.

  32. 32
    Chris Johnson says:

    lesson: don’t expect people to be everything for you.

  33. 33
    DannyNoonan says:

    I say we start stockpilling money in an account that can be given either to Clinton or a very worthy charity. Then put a date on it. Say August 15. And on that day, we’ll see how we feel about Hill and Bill and go from there.

  34. 34
    Pooh says:

    Should we set up an ActBlue account to try to offset some of the debt, or will that not go to retiring the debt?

    No.

    Because fuck Mark Penn, that’s why.

  35. 35
    Michael says:

    Like Zifnab said, moral support: yes. monetary support: no. She spent herself into this mess, she can clean it up (and she certainly does have the resources to do it.) Any extra money she spent after being made a longshot is money that Obama could have spent on the general election. She can just go begging to Emily’s List and shout the sexist meme a few more times and she is all paid for.

    There is too much money spent on all sides. Even with Obama, I will give him my vote not my money.

  36. 36
    John Cole says:

    Two quick thoughts:

    First, if I create a Hillary ActBlue account, you are not required to donate. If you do not want to, don’t.

    Second, a lot of you have laughed when I pointed to pro-Hillary bloggers and noted that they have a lot of work to do walking their bloggers back from the cliff. Apparently that is a two-way street. I don’t like a lot of the stunts Camp Clinton pulled in the primary (and I hate Mark Penn), but it is over. She is on the right side now. If helping her pay off her campaign debt quickly gets her out there stumping for Obama every day, I will be the first one to chuck in 50 bucks. Paying down her debt now is not a validation of her campaign tactics- the loss invalidated them.

    Something for you to think about when you lash out- you look to Clinton supporters much like the weirdos in the Taylor Marsh comment section look to us.

  37. 37
    wasabi gasp says:

    Let the record show 18 million voters looking at their shoes.

  38. 38
    4tehlulz says:

    James L. Jones

    I call bullshit. I bet it’s really James Earl Jones.

  39. 39
    rob! says:

    i dunno, i’d consider donating if you started one, john, though i understand the people who say absofuckinglutely not.

    i think i’d contribute, like, $5, and i’d feel ok with that. sure, giving money to Mark Penn (The TaterTot That Walked Like A Man) is abhorrent, but we need to look at the larger goal–getting Obama elected.

    if chipping in $5 to Hillary will help that, its a small price to pay.

  40. 40
    Existenz says:

    Let her big wig donors pay it off. Not one cent of my money is going to Mark Penn, or to Hillary for smearing Obama long after she was out of the race. Obama is a classier guy than me, and might host a fundraiser or two for her, but count me out.

    I want my money going to defeat Republicans, not to help a millionaire like Hillary Clinton. Isn’t Terry McAuliffe some sort of fundraising genius? And how about Geraldine Ferraro?

    Of course the Clintons will whine and play the victim here, but they know a whole bunch of fat cats who can pony up for this. And maybe NoQuarter, Hillaryis44, and TalkLeft can sponsor some fundraising. I’d rather raise money for Obama, the DNC and our Senate candidates.

  41. 41
    Mike P says:

    I gave $25 to Hill dog after her speech on Saturday. Doing my (very) small part.

  42. 42
    Zifnab says:

    If helping her pay off her campaign debt quickly gets her out there stumping for Obama every day, I will be the first one to chuck in 50 bucks.

    That’s a fucking huge-ass “if”.

    Hey, its your website. You can throw up a “Donate to Socks” fund for all I care. Just don’t be surprised if it comes up a bit empty.

    There’s a recession on and a couple wars on and starving people in Haiti. And then there’s my longstanding policy of not giving money to people I don’t like. I’m just say’n… Can’t we just donate money to a worth cause in Hillary Clinton’s good name? Then just send her a letter to show we still care?

  43. 43
    John S. says:

    Why do people just naturally assume that Hillary is going to be vaulted to the top?

    I don’t know, but I had this conversation with zmulls a few threads ago and we have an informal bet going on it.

    I’m in the same boat as you where I don’t see Hillary’s ‘awesomeness’ catapulting her to the top spot, but I guess that remains to be seen.

    Personally, I’m rooting for Dodd because I think he’d be great in the role (and because Harry Reid sucks monster ass).

  44. 44
    mantis says:

    She can move her general campaign money to her Senate fund to pay back vendors and employees. She’ll be left with the $11.4 mil she personally loaned to the campaign. If you want to set up a fund to help pay that back, I’ll chip in, as a gesture of good will towards the disappointed Democrats who support her (not the rabidly insane ones who would never vote for an “inexperienced black man,” as they like to call him, among other things).

  45. 45
    passerby says:

    Something for you to think about when you lash out- you look to Clinton supporters much like the weirdos in the Taylor Marsh comment section look to us.

    Sorry John, I often forget that what I post here could be reflected on you.

    But, I’m entitled (as are we all) to give my honest opinion and I’ll restate it here sans snark.

    No thanks, I prefer my $$ to go to Barack Obama’s bid for POTUS.

    T

  46. 46
    Genine says:

    Something for you to think about when you lash out- you look to Clinton supporters much like the weirdos in the Taylor Marsh comment section look to us.

    As much as it pains me to admit it, that’s true. Reading over some comments at Talk Left and a number of them say the same things a lot of us do, just switch the placement of Hillary and Obama. Yes, some are just insane, but not all.

    Also, this is just a gesture. I wouldn’t imagine we’d raise $20,000 for Clinton as we did for Obama, or anything close to the approximate zipcode of that amount. But I’m sure the thought would be appreciated by some of the more saner Hillary supporters and it can go a long ways towards healing.

    And, think of it this way, bringing Hillary supporters closer and healing that rift, helps Obama.

  47. 47
    HumboldtBlue says:

    Why do people just naturally assume that Hillary is going to be vaulted to the top?

    Worked for Marshall and Ike.

  48. 48
    libarbarian says:

    There is too much money spent on all sides. Even with Obama, I will give him my vote not my money.

    Politicians listen to those who fund their campaigns.

  49. 49
    cynique71 says:

    Is there a public record of who the campaign owes money to? If the businesses would identify themselves publicly somehow, then those who wanted to could send a payoff donation directly.

  50. 50
    zmulls says:

    Just a quick note about the Majority Leader meme.

    Nobody in the loop has said boo about this, as it’s still too soon after she left the Presidential race. But many of her supporters — and many people who didn’t support her for President but think she has some mad legislative and policy skillz [sic] — have been promulgating it as a good idea. It’s similar to the “John Edwards should be AG” meme which caught on enough that it might actually happen.

    Majority Leader has nothing to do with seniority, and even the large-ego-ed fellows don’t all want it. It’s a job that is a pain in the patootie, and requires a certain level of legislative legerdemain. The history of “who gets to be ML” is fascinating, and it almost never seems to be who you thought it was going to be. The caucus has its own ideas, and the job goes to someone who a) wants it and b) has the talent to make it work.

    I love me some Chris Dodd, but whether or not he would be the best ML is an arguable point. I suspect, and this is just a gut feeling, that Harry Reid would be happy to step down if someone else really, really wanted the job.

    I think Hillary Clinton is a natural for this job. She has been an impressive Senator — in the sense of learning very quickly how the game is played, building relationships, getting on the tough committes, doing her homework (and generally outstudying most of her compatriots). I did not support her for President, for many reasons, but I’d be first in line to promote her for ML.

    If she wanted it, I can see President-Elect Obama taking Harry Reid aside and asking if there isn’t some way this could get worked out. Now, the Senate often takes umbrage if the President meddles in the ML race, but a new President and a new majority (not to mention Clinton’s popularity within the party faithful), I think they’d be sympathetic. If she didn’t have the skills, they wouldn’t, but I think they think she does.

    My caveat is that Harry Reid must be amenable to stepping aside or down. If he does, I think Hillary becomes ML without much trouble. Remains to be seen whether Durbin or Dodd throw a flag on the play, but I think she still wins that race behind closed doors.

  51. 51
    nightjar says:

    Reminds me as a kid having gag down a slug of Castor Oil for God knows what purpose. If she continues to earnestly support Obama as the legitimate candidate, then it is traditional for the winner to help with the losers debt.

    Excuse me, I’m trying to strangle myself with one hand as I write this.

    In such a case, I would pitch in a buck or two. Though I can’t see why MCcain don’t ante up to. She did some mighty fine campaigning for him against Obama, as we will see with the coming wingnut ad blitzes.

  52. 52
    Jess says:

    I think it’s a great idea for the sake of public reconciliation, and I suspect that even if we only gave about $5 or $10 each, we’d end up feeling less angry about the whole ordeal. Paradoxically, we feel better about people for whom we’ve done a favor.

    But on the other hand, I would much rather give the money to Blue candidates running in Red states. I think it would be the better long-term investment.

    I say go for it, and see what happens.

  53. 53
    Jimmm says:

    Gun, rope, rusty saw, bucket of feces perched above a slightly ajar door, pie laced with broken glass and rusty shards of metal thrown in face, festively decorated package with a boxing glove attached to a spring compressed inside, board with nail through it, Republican: Some assembly required.

    Goddamn them. To hell.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200.....il_profits

    The Democrats failed, 51-43, to get the 60 votes needed to overcome a GOP filibuster and bring the energy package up for consideration.

    Separately, Democrats also failed to get Republican support for a proposal to extend tax breaks for wind, solar and other alternative energy development, and for the promotion of energy efficiency and conservation. The tax breaks have either expired or are scheduled to end this year.

    The tax provisions were included in a broader $50 billion tax measure blocked by a GOP filibuster threat. A vote to take up the measure was 50-44, short of the 60 votes needed.

    The windfall profits bill would have imposed a 25 percent tax on profits over what would be determined “reasonable” when compared to profits several years ago. The oil companies could have avoided the tax if they invested the money in alternative energy projects or refinery expansion. It also would have rescinded oil company tax breaks — worth $17 billion over the next 10 years — with the revenue to be used for tax incentives to producers of wind, solar and other alternative energy sources as well as for energy conservation.

  54. 54
    Michael says:

    libarbarian> Agree, but even if I sent in $100, it’s not gonna get me Obama’s ear.

  55. 55
    Ninerdave says:

    From what I can tell, she started to go into debt about the same time she and her campaign starting flinging shit all over the room.

    Her mess, she can pay to clean it up.

  56. 56
    AkaDad says:

    Are you trying to cure your CDS by taking part in some new drug experiment?

  57. 57
    TheFountainHead says:

    I would refuse to help her pay down her debts on the simple grounds that she was fiscally irresponsible, and as a Democrat, she should know, and act, better. Look at Obama’s campaign’s month-to-month standing debt. It was NOTHING. Pennies. Why? Because you pay off the first bill at the top of the pile as soon as the money coming in is equal or greater to the balance due. Period. Democrats used to be smeared left and right as fiscally irresponsible (thanks, Bush, for making that laughable) and Hillary Clinton should be setting an example of just how idiotic that meme is, as opposed to just how right it is. Political leaders are leading by example at all times, and her campaign was a colossal failure on that front.

  58. 58
    Jess says:

    it is traditional for the winner to help with the losers debt.

    Once again, Obama CANNOT directly help her pay off her debts (at least not more than the $2300 allowed as a personal donation)–he can only help out via fundraisers and the like.

  59. 59
    John says:

    If I remember correctly, there are something like 38 Democratic Senators ahead of Hillary (over 2/3 of the caucus) in terms of seniority, including quite a few individuals with rather large egos. Folks like Chuck Schumer, Joe Biden, Chris Dodd, and so forth. Why do people just naturally assume that Hillary is going to be vaulted to the top?

    She is already at the top in terms of party leadership. She came within a hair’s-breadth of being the large and in charge big boss of the Dems.

    That is important.

  60. 60
    jake says:

    I can’t believe I am contemplating fund-raising for the Clinton campaign.

    Think of it as paying for a huge hook to keep her off the stage.

  61. 61
    greynoldsct00 says:

    I admire you for thinking of this John. I’ll admit I’m torn, for many of the reasons stated in this thread. A few weeks ago I wouldn’t have cared less if she wound up living in a refrigerator box for the all damage she was doing and the arrogant stance she had while doing it. That being said, she gave a good speech this weekend and seems to be doing all the right things to get support for Obama. And yes, I’d rather take the high road than behave like one of those nutjobs on Taylor’s site or Hillaris 44. Put it up, see what happens.

  62. 62
    Krista says:

    What the Clinton campaign could do is post a list of their accounts payable and people could designate that their contributions should be earmarked for a specific item. I wouldn’t mind helping to pay off the bill from a printer or caterer, but I’m not giving a dime for Mark Penn or Terry McAuliff.

    That would be ideal.

    At any rate, John, I would suggest that you put it up there. It’s a very gentlemanly gesture, and we can donate (or not) if we wish. But if even $5 each helps further the healing process and helps get rid of some of the rancor, then it’s worth it, isn’t it?

    And think of it this way, everybody. John couldn’t even rationally discuss the Clinton campaign a very short time ago. He was just as royally pissed as anybody else on here, but this gesture is incredibly gracious, just like the behaviour of a certain Democratic Party nominee that we know. It might behoove us to forget our bile, offer that olive branch (even though it hurts a bit), and even if it doesn’t help, know that we did something to try to unite the Democratic Party back together.

  63. 63
    AkaDad says:

    I think if Hillary tightens her belt, she should be able to stretch out the remaining 70 million.

  64. 64
    Barbara says:

    I would suggest that this is a task mostly for maximum donors. If you have donated the maximum for Obama, and can spare a bit, then you can send something Clinton’s way if you are so inclined. OTOH, as articles have pointed out, the DNC really needs the money too, to compete with the RNC.

    What did Clinton think would happen?

  65. 65
    Tsulagi says:

    Nope.

    You want and go for the big prize, you accept the risks.

    I have some investments which for me are a fair sum of money. I fully accept the risks. If they go tits up, I’m not expecting nor wanting anyone to bail me out or make me financially whole again. Just the way it is, and the way I want it to be.

    Hillary’s a big girl. She’ll be okay.

  66. 66
    passerby says:

    What did Clinton think would happen?

    Winner!!

    T

  67. 67
  68. 68
    ImJohnGalt says:

    Let the record show 18 million voters looking at their shoes.

    I laughed. So sue me.

  69. 69
    johnosahon says:

    COMPUTER SAYS HELL TO THE NAW
    ——————————-

    NO, NO, NO, do NOT dare do that. The money she wasted was used to DESTROY Obama and turn her supporters against him. The money is what has caused her supporters to jump into the arms of McSame. Let her 18 million supporters who have been COMPLAINING non-stop pay her bills, while we TRY to do the most important thing, you know GET OBAMA ELECTED.

    besides hillary and her husband can pay those bills by giving speeches around the world, between 3-5 months they have made that money. they can pay that themselves, they would still have 60 -80 million left.

  70. 70
    DonnaInMichigan says:

    When Hillary and Bill Clinton release all the information regarding the Clinton Library donors, and how much they have in holdings there, and how much money in donations to his Foundation,…..then and only then will I make some kind of decision on whether I will give my hard earned money to these people who’s net worth is 100 million dollars, not counting their various properties, stocks, etc. Until then she can spin in the wind. They are not and never will be paupers….and Bill can go overseas and hit up some other unsavory people for donations. But I am sure now that Hillary won’t be president, those wells have run dry.

  71. 71
    Chris Johnson says:

    No. Just no. Shame on you for suggesting it and shame on her if she actually wants it- maybe you’re just temporarily insane? It’s wrong to do this. She’s morally obligated to come up with a way to settle with her debtors who trusted her.

    Waving a magic pony shaped wand and saying, “Go ahead, it doesn’t matter if you hurt people! We’ll make those consequences go away, just as all consequences magically go away!” is wrong.

    Wanting to use Obama for this is also wrong. I’d rather see him say “I have every confidence that you’ll honorably settle all of this, as you’re more than capable of doing, and shame on anybody who doesn’t think you can handle it.”

  72. 72
    Shygetz says:

    I don’t like a lot of the stunts Camp Clinton pulled in the primary (and I hate Mark Penn), but it is over. She is on the right side now. If helping her pay off her campaign debt quickly gets her out there stumping for Obama every day, I will be the first one to chuck in 50 bucks. Paying down her debt now is not a validation of her campaign tactics- the loss invalidated them.

    You’re not “validating” her campaign tactics? My friend, you are literally paying for them with money that could go to something better–like supporting a Dem in your local State Senate race or a Cherry Slushie! You are encouraging the next shmoe who comes along to do the same thing (“Go ahead and beat that dead horse into paste; worst thing that could happen is you’ll lose and the unity Dems will pick up your tab if you make nice afterwards.”) You are encouraging vendors to take debt from campaigns WAY past their expiration date, and encouraging politicians in general to over-reach on their expenses. You are more than “validating” her campaign tactics, you’re funding them even after you know exactly what your money was used for. Do you normally pay people after the fact for working against your interests, just because they have had the grace to finally stop? If so, I’ll have to remember to piss you off more often.

    Your website, stump for what you want. I’ll pass, thank you very much. I won’t campaign against her in the Dem primary in New York, and I will definitely campaign for her in the NY Senate general (all the good that will do her coming from a Georgian)–her change of tune has bought her that much gratitude from me. But I will not pay for her to slander our Presidential candidate in egregious ways and continue her campaign far beyond its sell-by date. The fact that I’d be paying for it retroactively makes it worse in my opinion, because I know exactly what I was paying for.

  73. 73
    johninpt says:

    How about putting your money toward winning the 2008 election before you consider subsidizing the fiscal irresponsibility of Hillary, Inc.? Just a thought.

  74. 74
    ImJohnGalt says:

    The Democrats failed, 51-43, to get the 60 votes needed to overcome a GOP filibuster and bring the energy package up for consideration.

    Really? The Goopers stood up there with the phone book and a copy of Atlas Shrugged and read it for 4 days straight until the Democrats eventually gave in?

    Or they said to ML Harry Reid “Hey, we’re gonna filibuster”, and Reid said “well, okay, if you say so, I guess we won’t *actually* make you filibuster. Wouldn’t want to make you miss your beauty sleep”.

    Fuck, do I ever want a President Obama to continue to show these fucking assholes what having a spine looks like.

  75. 75
    passerby says:

    ImJohnGalt Says:

    Let the record show 18 million voters looking at their shoes.

    I laughed. So sue me.

    So did I. Imjohngalt, I got a nice clear mental image from that.

    T

  76. 76
    johnosahon says:

    is that really jim or was a gun heard against your head, while you typed this input?

    LOL

  77. 77
    DonnaInMichigan says:

    Oh and another thing..

    Let her 18 million crack…er…supporters

    Get her out of debt..since they llllllllooovvee her so much.

  78. 78
    DonnaInMichigan says:

    Oh and another thing..

    Let her 18 million crack…er…supporters

    Get her out of debt..since they llllllllooovvee her so much.

  79. 79
    Kevin K. says:

    John, after her great speech on Saturday, I was thinking the same thing (“bail her out!”), but everyone should wait to see how she delivers in the near future.

    And, yeah, like everyone else, I’d feel like a total dick passing even a penny of my money along to Mark Penn.

  80. 80
    Punchy says:

    I can’t believe I am contemplating fund-raising for the Clinton campaign

    Your “I like her” (Jan), “I hate her” (Feb-Mar), “I really, really hate her” (Apr-May), and now “We all need to give tons of hard-earned money cuz her $100+ million bank account is too small” is fucking pathological.

    Seriously, hire a shrink. You need help.

  81. 81
    El Cruzado says:

    Considering Bill’s not going to stop raking in the obscene talking circuit profits any time soon, I don’t think they’ll have any problem paying the debt up before the end of the first Obama administration.

  82. 82
    Kevin K. says:

    Oh and another thing..

    Let her 18 million crack…er…supporters

    Get her out of debt..since they llllllllooovvee her so much.

    You’re asking for an awful lot of cats in America to go without food.

  83. 83
    Joyce says:

    Hillary’s debt is money that would be better spent for down ticket candidates. For every dollar you send to help Hillary Clinton pay down her campaign debt, send double that amount to help lesser known democratic candidates running for congress, governor, mayor, etc.

  84. 84
    libarbarian says:

    OFF TOPIC:

    Deadwood kicks ass!!!

  85. 85
    Chris Johnson says:

    But if even $5 each helps further the healing process and helps get rid of some of the rancor, then it’s worth it, isn’t it?

    No. We are responsible for our actions. People are capable of being unhealed and rancorous and still being unreasonable.

    Hillary is capable of STILL having some worth and merit even if she ripped off her vendors and didn’t pay their bills. If she turns around and makes arrangements to pay them off that’s good and I’ll applaud it.

    If she rips off her vendors and then expects ME to pay them, that is not ‘worth it’ at all. She has a responsibility to straighten this stuff out. Expecting her opposition to cover bills SHE did not pay is bad.

    Tell you what- I want to see her and Bill use their personal fortune to settle with EVERYBODY, right now, and then turn around and ask me to help them get back to where they were.

    THAT is a proposal I will listen seriously to. That, John can put up an ActBlue box for.

    Do you understand why that would be okay, but the Clintons wanting to use donations to cover their unpaid bills so they don’t have to tap their personal money is not?

    Let’s not get ahead of ourselves here.

  86. 86
    johnosahon says:

    i don’t get this, why are Obama’s supporters the ones responsible for paying her debts? where are her supporters? why are they not organising this? why are they wasting thier time trying to destroy Obama’s opportunity? they should spend their energy on helping hillary.

  87. 87
    marjowil says:

    I remember in the 90s feeling bad for the Clintons because of all their legal bills against the VRWC.

    They seem to have done all right in the meantime.

    No hard feelings… Maybe we can do one of those matching deals… Match me up with a Hillary supporter who is on the fence about kicking in $10 to Obama, and I’ll kick in $10 for Hillary in the interests of unity.

  88. 88
    crw says:

    Let her re-negotiate debt to her advisors, and then we’ll talk donations.

    IANAL, but I don’t think she *can* renegotiate her debts. The problem is, any debt write off will be considered an “in kind” campaign donation and runs into tricky legal issues.

    You guys need to think more politically and less personally. Yes, no one wants to reward Hillary’s bad behavior. But if sticking the shiv in to personally punish her hurts our chances in November, then it is a politically foolish decision. Even if the vast majority of Juicers don’t donate, it’s a nice symbolic gesture to show one high profile blogger is putting down the pitch fork. I say go for it.

  89. 89
    Brachiator says:

    I can’t believe I am contemplating fund-raising for the Clinton campaign.

    Mitt Romney dipped into his personal fortune to finance his campaign and no one is seeking to bail him out.

    The Clintons have amassed $109 million and still have friends with deep pockets. I have no doubt that they will rack up more loot in the future. There is no reason for the general public to bail them out.

    There have even been stories about how Bill Clinton has been digging over-deeply into the expense allowance due him as a former president (Feel My Pain: The Federal Taxpayers’ Subsidy of Bill Clinton).

    The federal taxpayer’s subsidy of Mr. Clinton has several components. First, as a former president, Mr. Clinton is entitled to receive, for the remainder of his life, the salary of a cabinet secretary. That salary is today $191,000 per annum. In addition, as a former president, Mr. Clinton also receives, at taxpayer expense, “suitable office space appropriately furnished and equipped.” Mr. Clinton’s office in New York City costs federal taxpayers over $700,000 per year to lease and operate. Federal taxpayers also defray the salary and benefits for office staff and some of Mr. Clinton’s travel outlays. The General Services Administration currently budgets for all of these costs a yearly total of $1,162,000 for Mr. Clinton. The equivalent annual figures for former President Bush and former President Carter are $786,000 and $518,000 respectively….

    The immediate stimulus for the modern post-presidential compensation package was the report that former president Truman lacked the resources to return his mail from the American public.

    This post-presidential package was designed to preclude Grant’s and Truman’s successors from experiencing the financial problems they confronted. It was not intended to serve as a federal subsidy for the aggressive pursuit of a post-presidential fortune.

    If the Clintons were close to being insolvent, I would cheerfully endorse any bailout plan. I think it might be expedient to help Senator Clinton if she gets the VP nod. But otherwise, no.

  90. 90
    datacine says:

    Go John!
    You are a MENSCH
    We should help all Dems

    Politics is painfully public and publicly painfull.
    I think that is from Haley Barbour via Mark Sheilds

  91. 91
    Face says:

    Can we just skull-fuck a kitten named Hillary and call it even?

  92. 92
    johnosahon says:

    if 18 million of her supportes donate just $2 she would cover her debts and then some.

  93. 93
    Chris Johnson says:

    Seriously, I see two issues here and it’s important.

    It would be one thing if she didn’t have unpaid bills. Then the debt would be how much it had cost HER. I’d talk willingly about that. Dunno if I’d want to pay her back for it as I don’t like how she talked, but I wouldn’t have a problem with that idea.

    The fact that she has unpaid bills while still having many times that much in personal assets blows all that out of the water completely.

    Pay your bills out of your own money and THEN we will talk. Until that point, this is not an appropriate subject to talk about.

  94. 94
    ImJohnGalt says:

    Am I the only one who hates it when the media reports that the Democrats didn’t get the *60* votes they needed to actually get something done?

    Remember when an “upperdown vote” was the most important thing in the world? Remember when 50%+1 was a mandate? I swear, I want to cock-punch every TeeVee pundit with brass knuckles on.

    Could they at least report that “Democrats caved to a threatened filibuster by the whiny-assed titty-babies that are today’s Republican Party. They didn’t actually have to filibuster, which was fortunate, as they had a wetsuit and dildo party planned for 8:00 at the Watergate hotel as part of the NRO annual conference.”

    ImJohnGalt is angry today.

  95. 95
    Dennis - SGMM says:

    I ask myself, If the situation was reversed how many of Clinton’s supporters would donate to settle Obama’s campaign debts?

  96. 96
    Genine says:

    “Be the change you want to see in the world.”

    – Gandhi

  97. 97
    Joe Beese says:

    How does helping Hillary Clinton pay down $10 million in vendor debt, half of which is owed to Mark Penn for telling her California’s delegates were winner-take-all, nearly all of which was assumed after it was clear she had lost, have a higher moral claim on us than getting Obama elected?

    Not seeing it.

  98. 98
    DonnaInMichigan says:

    A bit of information for the masses..who don’t know this..

    The Clintons bought the house in Chappaqua (sp?) NY after leaving the White House. They had to have a co-signer for a mortgage. This house didn’t come equipped with housing the Secret Service. So they built a seperate housing for the Secret Service. They charge the government rent for housing for the Secret Service, to a tune of 10,000.00 per month…which coincidently is the amount of their mortgage payments on the mansion. So in essence WE the taxpayers are also paying their mortgage payments on their mansion.

  99. 99
    Chris Johnson says:

    And I think the Clintons are quite capable of having something to say, importance in the political sphere- perhaps even justification for that million dollar office in New York, though I think that’s really pushing it.

    I think they still have validity even if they are busily robbing people right and left- just not on budget and finances.

    I don’t think they have any moral authority on finances at all, and anything that furthers the bizarro world in which they get a New York office for having once been President but aren’t supposed to pay their own campaign vendors directly is a world of wrong.

    Let them talk about geopolitics. Let them talk about health care, or breaking the glass ceiling that says women can’t be important. Let them say all that and be entitled to respect for those opinions, but…

    let them PAY THEIR DAMN BILLS at least.

    WITH THEIR OWN MONEY.

    Nobody’s going to have to close offices, go hungry, or anything like that, but they HAVE to do this now. We cannot subsidize anything else.

  100. 100
    Shygetz says:

    You guys need to think more politically and less personally. Yes, no one wants to reward Hillary’s bad behavior. But if sticking the shiv in to personally punish her hurts our chances in November, then it is a politically foolish decision. Even if the vast majority of Juicers don’t donate, it’s a nice symbolic gesture to show one high profile blogger is putting down the pitch fork. I say go for it.

    So now not paying someone retroactively for bad behavior is “sticking the shiv in”? In order to “stick the shiv in” all I have to do is absolutely nothing? In which prison did you learn shiving? See, where I’m from, we shiv old school. If I wanted to shiv Hillary, I would do something like sue her for campaign finance violations, or actively support a primary challenger for her Senate seat, or write a slanderous tell-all book, or report that her husband was cheating on her. But now you tell me that, in order to shiv her, all I have to do is not pay her debts? Wow, I must shiv an awful lot of people every day.

  101. 101
    John Cole says:

    I actually just saw an interesting piece on National Geographic or Discovery or one of them about Whitey Bulger, and how he used the rioting about bussing to consolidate his rule.

  102. 102

    […] Incidentally, John Cole wonders if an ActBlue account can be set up to help pay off Clinton’s campaign debt. I don’t know the legalities, but I’m all for it — Clinton’s assistance to Obama deserves to be rewarded. […]

  103. 103
    Fe E says:

    That is a very admirable plan John,

    I say go ahead and set it up–as you say if people don’t want to contribute they don’t have to. I’m not sure if I’ll be able to kick in or not, but that is more a matter of finances and priorites (I just kicked in some $$ to the DNC because they have bveen sort of starved of funds by the presidential race, plus some dough straight to Obama) but we’ll see.

    If I have any left over, I’d consider it. I do find Terry McCauliffe (sp?) Penn and especially Howard Wolfson to be thoroughly repulsive, crepulent figures. That might make it tougher.

  104. 104
    passerby says:

    So now not paying someone retroactively for bad behavior is “sticking the shiv in”? In order to “stick the shiv in” all I have to do is absolutely nothing? In which prison did you learn shiving? See, where I’m from, we shiv old school. If I wanted to shiv Hillary, I would do something like sue her for campaign finance violations, or actively support a primary challenger for her Senate seat, or write a slanderous tell-all book, or report that her husband was cheating on her. But now you tell me that, in order to shiv her, all I have to do is not pay her debts? Wow, I must shiv an awful lot of people every day.

    Damn, you’re good.

    T

  105. 105
    empty says:

    John, if you recall you had toyed with the idea of setting up a donations page for a charity like Oxfam or Care. How about doing that? I am sure it would be much appreciated.

  106. 106
    Chris Johnson says:

    So now not paying someone retroactively for bad behavior is “sticking the shiv in”? In order to “stick the shiv in” all I have to do is absolutely nothing? In which prison did you learn shiving? See, where I’m from, we shiv old school. If I wanted to shiv Hillary, I would do something like sue her for campaign finance violations, or actively support a primary challenger for her Senate seat, or write a slanderous tell-all book, or report that her husband was cheating on her. But now you tell me that, in order to shiv her, all I have to do is not pay her debts? Wow, I must shiv an awful lot of people every day.

    Yeah, Shygetz for the win. Seriously, we have to get back to the reality-based planet Earth, there’s a lot of work to do. In order to do that we have to evaluate situations not insanely. We’ve got enough insanity from the executive branch as it stands, we do NOT need to muddy the water by suddenly fussing over whether we’re morally obligated to pay off the people Clinton stiffed.

    That shit’s gotta stop, immediately. She has the power to pay her creditors and needs to do exactly that.

    If that SERIOUSLY ends up making her personal wealth so much less that there are important things she commits to that now go unsupported, I’ll help her myself.

    I’m guessing not. I think she has the capacity to pay off her bills. Not to do so- that would be bad, and it would be a bad bad sign.

    We are SO DONE with that manner of politics, on either side of the aisle…

  107. 107
    4tehlulz says:

    Shygetz Says:

    Fucking signed. POTD

  108. 108
    cleek says:

    instead of flushing money down the Clinton drain, i’d encourage NCers to donate to Kay Hagan. it’d be sweeter than sweet to get her into the Senate seat that Lizzy Dole currently holds.

  109. 109
    NR says:

    OT, but in the department of the unintentionally hilarious, Jeralyn has just posted this over at TalkLeft:

    Life is too short to be consumed by irrational hate.

  110. 110
    Trinity says:

    Um…good luck with all that.

  111. 111
    Dennis - SGMM says:

    How about soliciting donations to buy Harry Reid a pair?

  112. 112
    Genine says:

    We’ve got enough insanity from the executive branch as it stands, we do NOT need to muddy the water by suddenly fussing over whether we’re morally obligated to pay off the people Clinton stiffed.

    I don’t think anyone is saying we’re morally obligated to help the Clintons. That’s just insane.

    I think the most anyone is saying is that A) It would be a nice gesture, B) Its a nice gesture and its politically expedient or C) Its politically expedient.

    Anyone with ideas of moral obligation or either on crack, Riverdaughter, Corrente, or No Quarters.

  113. 113
    Barbara says:

    Considering Bill’s not going to stop raking in the obscene talking circuit profits any time soon, I don’t think they’ll have any problem paying the debt up before the end of the first Obama administration.

    I predict that his cachet (and associated price tag) will go down for the simple reason that it is quite possible that payments to him for speaking were a kind of proxy contribution to the campaign of the next president of the United States. I have had this suspicion of the Clinton candidacy since day one. Not that there has been anything explicit, but like the library donors, it’s an awful lot of money, and I don’t think people love Bill Clinton quite that much.

  114. 114
    nightjar says:

    NR Says:

    OT, but in the department of the unintentionally hilarious, Jeralyn has just posted this over at TalkLeft:

    Life is too short to be consumed by irrational hate.

    It’s hilarious to watch Jeralyn and Marsh now try and tame the beast they created, and getting hammered by their former devotees.

    File under, Inmates attack asylum directors.

  115. 115
    marjowil says:

    From crw:

    IANAL, but I don’t think she can renegotiate her debts. The problem is, any debt write off will be considered an “in kind” campaign donation and runs into tricky legal issues.

    According to the Times:

    Mrs. Clinton could also whittle down her debt by re-negotiating what she owes with her various creditors, but the Federal Election Commission would have to sign off to ensure that a good-faith effort was made to pay off the debt. It also must be satisfied that the renegotiated bills do not amount to an in-kind donation from a corporation to Mrs. Clinton’s campaign.

    …Some of Mrs. Clinton’s largest outstanding bills are to some of her closest advisers, who might be willing to cut her a deal. Mrs. Clinton, for example, owes nearly $5 million to the firm of her former pollster and senior strategist, Mark Penn.

  116. 116
    Helena Montana says:

    Helping retire the Clinton debt seems to me like rewarding bad behavior. I will not contribute.

  117. 117
    crw says:

    So now not paying someone retroactively for bad behavior is “sticking the shiv in”? In order to “stick the shiv in” all I have to do is absolutely nothing? In which prison did you learn shiving? See, where I’m from, we shiv old school. If I wanted to shiv Hillary, I would do something like sue her for campaign finance violations, or actively support a primary challenger for her Senate seat, or write a slanderous tell-all book, or report that her husband was cheating on her. But now you tell me that, in order to shiv her, all I have to do is not pay her debts? Wow, I must shiv an awful lot of people every day.

    Okay, so ‘sticking the shiv in’ is too strong a phrase. But I will note there’s a difference between refraining to participate in something you feel is misguided and loudly denouncing an attempt to make nice. It’s not like anyone is holding a gun to your head and making you donate.

  118. 118
    cbear says:

    I actually just saw an interesting piece on National Geographic or Discovery or one of them about Whitey Bulger, and how he used the rioting about bussing to consolidate his rule.

    Hmmm, so there actually is a “Whitey” tape. Quick, someone alert Agent Flowbee.

  119. 119
    Andrew says:

    Your “I like her” (Jan), “I hate her” (Feb-Mar), “I really, really hate her” (Apr-May), and now “We all need to give tons of hard-earned money cuz her $100+ million bank account is too small” is fucking pathological.

    Seriously, hire a shrink. You need help.

    What Punchy said x10000000000000. Seriously, Cole, wtf?

    Donating to Hillary is like giving money to Harvard. They’ve got too much of it already, they spend it on stupid crap, they don’t need any more, they don’t deserve any more, and all you get out of it is a marginal chance that it’s going to help you out in the far future.

    Allow me to repeat myself:
    DO NOT EVEN CONSIDER DONATING ANYTHING TO HILLARY UNLESS YOU HAVE MAXED OUT YOUR PRIMARY $2300 TO OBAMA AND PLAN ON MAXING OUT DURING THE GENERAL.

    Also, fuck the dumb crazy lady talking about switching from Hillary to McCain on NPR right now. Fuck her and her stupid fucking idiot dumb brain.

  120. 120
    crw says:

    majorwill,

    Good to know. She definitely should make Mark Penn eat his fees.

  121. 121
    Barbara says:

    I would think renegotiation is possible to some extent, so long as the original intent was to provide services and not in-kind donations, especially since Clinton appears to have paid premium rates for many of the services that she contracted for — that is, at higher rates than other candidates and, I am guessing, at higher rates than the vendors’ other clients do. Using her senate kitty to pay primary debts is apparently of questionable legality, however.

  122. 122
    cleek says:

    She definitely should make Mark Penn eat his fees.

    i read that as:

    She definitely should make Mark Penn eat his feces.

    … and that is something i would not like to see.

  123. 123
    passerby says:

    I predict that his cachet (and associated price tag) will go down for the simple reason that it is quite possible that payments to him for speaking were a kind of proxy contribution to the campaign of the next president of the United States. I have had this suspicion of the Clinton candidacy since day one. Not that there has been anything explicit, but like the library donors, it’s an awful lot of money, and I don’t think people love Bill Clinton quite that much.

    Barbara, I agree and I also think that this is why he fought so red-faced, desperately on the campaign trail.

    Some suggested that he was sabotaging Hillary, but, all I saw was his fighting tooth and nail to win for the reasons you pointed out above, his political clout, slipping away.

    T

  124. 124
    Andrew says:

    She definitely should make Mark Penn eat his feces.

    … and that is something i would not like to see.

    But something I would dearly like to actually happen.

  125. 125
    Bobzim says:

    Yeah, I watched that about Whitey Bulger. Now that guy was the absolute master of triangulation. So who’s Whitey in your analogy?

    I still say we carbon freeze Bill. Put Gershon in front of him during the freezing process and you got yourself a handle to drag him around with.

  126. 126
    Cyrus says:

    Where does this fantasy keep coming from about Hillary as Senate Majority Leader? Do some of you know something I don’t?

    I think the main reason for the fantasy is just an assumption that she’s bound to do something other than just stay the junior Senator from New York. A critic would say she’s too ambitious to settle for that, a fan would say her skills and intelligence displayed on this campaign are wasted there, and they may both be right.

    So where else could she go? The presidential nomination is obviously out. There are several problems with her being the vice-presidential candidate as well, and there’s no indication she even wants it. A governorship? New York already has a Democratic governor, as does Illinois, where she grew up, and I think she would face a very tough race in Arkansas. The Supreme Court? She’s never been a judge and it’s not a very public or upwardly-mobile position; pissing off the right wing is the only real attraction of imagining Clinton as a justice. It’s hard to think of anything else in government besides Senate majority leader.

  127. 127
    crw says:

    … and that is something i would not like to see.

    Some things are best heard and not seen.

  128. 128
    KCinDC says:

    it is traditional for the winner to help with the losers debt.

    It is traditional for multimillionaire candidates to spend millions on their campaigns, not lend themselves millions and then hit people up for money afterward that goes directly into their pockets. That’s essentially legalized bribery, and I don’t understand why ethics rules even allow it.

    Clinton’s speech Saturday went a good way toward repairing some of the damage she did during the hopeless phase of her campaign (as recently as a week ago), and I’m willing to move on. I’m not trying to punish her.

    But I certainly won’t be sending her any of my money when there are thousands of better things to do with it than transfer it to someone much, much wealthier than I am, with much, much greater income potential. I don’t understand why anyone would even think of it. If you want to spend money to help the Democrats in November, give it to the DNC, to Senate or House candidates, to the DSCC, to the DCCC, to MoveOn, to Democracy for America, to your local Democratic candidates. Why give it to Hillary Clinton?

  129. 129
    Eddyed says:

    Only help retire the debt of the vendors she used.

    Do not help retired Mark Penn’s or any other consultant’s debt!!

  130. 130
    Jody says:

    Ultimately, she did the right thing, and that deserves to be acknowledged.

  131. 131
    Adam says:

    No one else in the country is allowed to break the $2000 limit except for the Clintons, who now have the option to de facto donate ~$20M to the Democratic Party. It seems to me that it would be foolish to pass up that historic opportunity.

  132. 132
    Andrew says:

    Cole, if you want to donate money to someone, why not buy that kid in Kentucky or WV or where ever it was a new bike and video game system?

  133. 133
    w vincentz says:

    I think paying of Hillary’s debt is a good idea that will take group effort. Therefore, I propose “The Great Balloon Juice Internet BAKE SALE”. Yessiree, we can all come up with our favorites. I’ll make a huge batch of BROWNIES, the fudgier the bettah.
    Maybe Hillary will even bake something, as long as she stays in the kitchen. I’ve heard that she has a cookie recipe.
    Bill can make “lady fingers”. Monica will make “lip stickers”, and Terry McA will make “rum cake”.
    All other bakers…suggest your favorites.

    We’ll have the campaign debt licked in a little bit. Just lick a little bit at a time. Should be YUMMY!

  134. 134
    Blue Raven says:

    No, No, No to Gen. Jones. You gotta be a special kind of nutty to get that much Jarhead Bling. We don’t need that.

    We have a Presidential candidate with no military experience facing Capt. Rictus Grin Jack “Songbird” McCain. His biggest “I’m better than you” line is the war hero shtick. Gen. Jones is a 40-year veteran of the toughest section of the US military. He has foreign policy experience. He has true crossover appeal between both parties. And he’s not a Bush butt-kisser and STILL gets an appointment under this administration. Aside from the fact I have a personal gripe with anyone who calls a Marine “butt-crazy” for being good at what he does (my nephew is currently in the sand with the Corps and I have a cousin who also served with them), try to tell me that a man whose military record is unimpeachable would not make McCain look like twice the fool he already does. I saw his bio and realized that Obama’s people are playing hardball with a ball that registers at least an 8 on the Mohs hardness scale. I for one am pleased.

  135. 135
    Scrutinizer says:

    I’ll kick something in on that, though it won’t be anything close to what I’ll give to Obama and Kay Hagen for the GE. Party unity isn’t just about her supporters coming over to our side.

  136. 136
    Dreggas says:

    O/T but too hilarious…H/T Atrios…

    Rep. Lynn Westmoreland (R-GA)

    I think the people that elect us deserve to know what our plan is. The Republican side has come out with a plan. They say, “Look, we’re gonna take advantage of our natural resources. We’re gonna take advantage of the things that we were God-given in this land. We’re gonna take advantage of our oil reserves, of our natural gas, of our abundance of coal.” We’re gonna take advantage of those things, and we’re gonna use the technology that we’ve been so good about coming up with. We’re gonna take and convert this shale to oil, which Hitler did in the late ’20s. In the late ’20s. And we don’t think that we can do that today?

  137. 137
    bartkid says:

    >I can’t believe I am contemplating fund-raising for the Clinton campaign.

    I used the same rationalization to go see Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith: I’m paying Lucas my $10, so he will retire and NOT make Star Wars VII.

  138. 138
    HumboldtBlue says:

    Andrew Says:

    Cole, if you want to donate money to someone, why not buy that kid in Kentucky or WV or where ever it was a new bike and video game system?

    Hmm, that’s a nice idea.

  139. 139
    johninpt says:

    Take home lesson: If you’re a vendor working with a political campaign, the only way to do business is CASH UP FRONT. I’ve worked/volunteered for approximately a zillion campaigns and can’t ever remember a vendor who let a campaign run up a serious tab. It was taken for granted that you would have a check in hand when you accepted delivery or booked a venue.

  140. 140
    passerby says:

    Some of those who supported Hillary will support Obama because they are true democrats. Others will vote for McCain or stay home–go figure why. Some will NEVER vote for Obama.

    Helping Hillary retire her campaign debt as a gesture to court votes from her followers might make for a nice Hallmark moment but, to me it feels like we’re still jumping through Politically Correct hoops.

    At some point we need to cut the dead weight, march over the fallen and build on the strong momentum that Obama’s nomination will generate. He actually has a plan, you know.

    T

  141. 141
    HeartlandLiberal says:

    She and Bill can earn that in a couple of years doing speaking engagements. Let them get busy on it. Hell will freeze over before I donate to her after the campaign she ran the past five months: racist, Rovian, Rethuglican to the max.

    Request denied.

  142. 142
    Xenos says:

    She definitely should make Mark Penn eat his fees.

    Let him try to collect — I expect she can sue him for malpractice.

  143. 143
    jake says:

    [Rubs eyes]

    Dreggas, wtf was that, the Beverly Hillbillies energy plan?

    Jesus Christ, I feel 50% stoopider after reading that.

  144. 144
    Shygetz says:

    But I will note there’s a difference between refraining to participate in something you feel is misguided and loudly denouncing an attempt to make nice. It’s not like anyone is holding a gun to your head and making you donate.

    You help her retire her debt, then the next joker that comes along has no reason to not beat their campain into the ground on the hopes that the front-runner will be assassinated or some such dreck. Call it the moral hazard of primary campaigning–if you remove the risk, all that’s left to the candidate is the upside of long primaries and dirty tactics. Doesn’t mean you’re being an asshole about it, it just means that you sleep in the bed you made.

    Ultimately, she did the right thing, and that deserves to be acknowledged.

    Agreed. We at Balloon Juice should send her a nice Certificate of Merit. I’ll even chip in for a little ribbon to attach to it, just because I’m a nice guy.

  145. 145
    OriGuy says:

    I read somewhere that Obama’s campaign was recycling a lot of their equipment. When a primary finished in one state, they’d pack up the computers, office equipment, etc. and ship it to a state where the campaign was just ramping up. I suspect Hillary’s campaign didn’t plan that far ahead in that respect either.

    Strategy and tactics get all the press, but logistics wins the war.

  146. 146
    Shygetz says:

    So where else could she go…A governorship?…The Supreme Court? …It’s hard to think of anything else in government besides Senate majority leader.

    Secretary of State. Ambassador to the UN. Either of those would help stregthen her foreign policy credentials, as well as help the US get some credibility back on the world stage (they always loved them some Clintons), and Secretary of State is nothing to sneeze at when it comes to Presidential ambition. Secretary of HHS would play into her assumed role as a health care guru (although I think it would not be as good for her as one of the previous roles), and as a suckler of the Federal teat, I would feel much more comfortable with someone in that position that knows what they are doing as opposed to that ass Mike Leavitt. I actually think Clinton’s Presidential ambitions would be better served by a stint as an actual member of the Executive branch in DC, rather than as the spouse of one or another term as Senator, and I wouldn’t hate to see her as an ambassador.

  147. 147
    Brachiator says:

    Shygetz Says:

    We at Balloon Juice should send her a nice Certificate of Merit. I’ll even chip in for a little ribbon to attach to it, just because I’m a nice guy.

    I hear you. The NY Times story notes that Romney poured $44 million of his own money into his campaign, but no one is weeping for him.

    And then, there is this little nugget about the Clinton campaign:

    What makes Mrs. Clinton’s situation unusual is the combination of unpaid bills and her own personal loan. Records show that other unsuccessful candidates owed less than half to their vendors than what she owes to businesses. “It’s unprecedented,” said Jan Baran, a campaign finance lawyer with Wiley Rein….

    Some of Mrs. Clinton’s largest outstanding bills are to some of her closest advisers, who might be willing to cut her a deal. Mrs. Clinton, for example, owes nearly $5 million to the firm of her former pollster and senior strategist, Mark Penn.

    This stuff just reiterates the short-sightedness and the ineptitude of the Clinton campaign team. It goes far beyond the “warm and fuzzies” to want to rescue these people from their own mistakes.

    I could possibly see helping Clinton with unpaid vendors. This would be a noble gesture. But the Clinton’s have the scratch and the connections to take care of the rest.

  148. 148
    Call me K says:

    I think I could stomach giving her $10 a week, for every week that she and Bill behave.

    And if they start undermining Obama, I will ask for a return of my donations.

    Or maybe we should all use ActBlue as escrow accounts, with pledges paid to Hilary if Obama wins and she hadsn’t tried sabotage him?

  149. 149
    4tehlulz says:

    no one is weeping for him.

    Except K-Lo

  150. 150
    Balakirev says:

    Well, since she’s only worth less than $100,000/year and worked so diligently in Congress to fight Bush’s efforts at invading Iraq and Iran, she obviously deserves our financial support.

    Oh, wait a minute. She’s worth–how much is that in multiple millions, again?–and she supported Bush’s current wars and the one he wants to start up.

    John, please consider splitting your donations between Obama and a charity to help people that earn a lot less than the senator in question.

  151. 151
    JGabriel says:

    John Cole:

    If anyone can definitively state that money donated today will pay down her debt, I will set one up ASAP.

    Too early to risk it. I’d wait until a call goes out from the campaign for donations specifically to retire the debt.

    Or at least until June 21, to see how high the debt is, and what plans they set forth for paying it.

    .

  152. 152
    area man says:

    Sen. Clinton ran a crap campaign well past the point when it was obvious to anyone with a grasp of basic math that it was hopeless. She basically threatened to tear the party apart and now I’m supposed to bail out her bad decisions?

    Colour me completely unmoved by the plight of hapless millionaires and the cretins they overpay. Let the legions of her adoring fans pony up the cash. Obama, the DNC, down-ticket races, these are among the list of about a thousand things I’d rather spend my hard earned cash on.

  153. 153
    jvill says:

    marjowil Says: No hard feelings… Maybe we can do one of those matching deals… Match me up with a Hillary supporter who is on the fence about kicking in $10 to Obama, and I’ll kick in $10 for Hillary in the interests of unity.

    Good idea.

    I’d be down for that.

  154. 154
    Cali Scribe says:

    If Joe’s Pizza Shack or EZ Print Signs get stiffed by the Clinton campaign, they may be more leery about doing business with other political organizations, like the next progressive candidate running for Congress in their district.

    How about a list of all the small businesses that are owed money, and folks in those areas can make sure to patronize those establishments? 20 folks ordering pizzas from Joe’s and saying they’re eating there to thank him for supporting democracy could go a long way to assuaging bad feelings.

  155. 155
    crw says:

    Call it the moral hazard of primary campaigning—if you remove the risk, all that’s left to the candidate is the upside of long primaries and dirty tactics. Doesn’t mean you’re being an asshole about it, it just means that you sleep in the bed you made.

    Right, because if John doesn’t make a symbolic gesture by putting up an ActBlue page for her, Hillary will feel the pinch. That ship has sailed, I’m afraid. Hillary is never going to feel financial pain even if she’s left holding the bag on her campaign debts by small dollar donors. The only consequences that really could matter and dissuade politicians from scorching the earth in future futile bids are political. For Hillary, losing the primary was a start. Not being rewarded with Veep would be another step.

    In a way, it doesn’t really matter what we peons do. Hillary’s debts will be paid. Publicly, she wont be punished for her transgressions to make nice with her voting cohorts. Privately, I suspect her slash’n’burn the past few months will affect her future in the Obama lead Democratic party, shutting off certain avenues (such as a Veep slot) but not ending her career. We can participate in the Kabuki play or not. It doesn’t really matter in the long run (although, IMO, loudly protesting the idea will go over like a lead balloon with her supporters). If John wants to, cool. If he doesn’t want to, that’s also cool. I just don’t see the point in getting worked up if he does participate in the Unity Kabuki. That said, I can see why people wouldn’t want to give up one red cent of their hard earned money in the name of unity. Especially when it might go toward d-bags like Penn.

  156. 156
    Helena Montana says:

    Good to know. She definitely should make Mark Penn eat his fees

    I agree with that sentiment. When I looked at that line initially, I saw “She definitely should make Mark Penn eat his feces.” That’s another sentiment I agree with.

  157. 157
    phoebes in santa fe says:

    I hate to admit it but I did send $250.00 her way last Saturday after her speech. I did it through ActBlue.

    Hopefully, it’ll go towards paying off some pizza vendors.

  158. 158
    sistermoon says:

    I’m not willing to donate to a campaign that got itself into debt through fiscal irresponsibility.

    If there was some means of ensuring that donated funds would go to the vendors (as opposed to that idiot Mark Penn’s exorbitant salary), I’d happily donate.

    Otherwise, no thanks.

  159. 159
    DonnaInMichigan says:

    I have a better idea…how about “adopting” a family, one that is about to lose their home, or business, and helping them out financially? I would give to that in a heart beat, instead of someone worth 100+ million dollars, (of what we DO know of), plus off shore bank accounts (the ones we don’t know about)!Plus their millions in a Foundation, and Library donors..

    Why can’t we instead focusing on helping someone(s) TRULY in need instead of helping out an already millionaire X 100.

  160. 160
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    I can’t believe I am contemplating fund-raising for the Clinton campaign.

    Me either John. Not only because they are worth a hundred million dollars but because it’s sending the signal that it’s okay to say white people matter more in a presidential election. That may be fine with a Republican who’s just using Democrats for revenge but it’s not okay with Democrats.

    She can start with the eighteen million voters she claims to possess. After that, she can tap out her lobbyist base. After that, she can get her money the way all legislators do: influence and corruption.

  161. 161
    mark says:

    Yeah, um, I don’t get it. It’s not that I’m unsympathetic, but this was her making. It didn’t have to happen. Bailing her out justifies behavior like this (spending money you don’t have) for next person. It’s a bad precedent.

  162. 162
    ThatLeftTurnInABQ says:

    John Cole Says:

    Two quick thoughts:

    First, if I create a Hillary ActBlue account, you are not required to donate. If you do not want to, don’t.

    Second, a lot of you have laughed when I pointed to pro-Hillary bloggers and noted that they have a lot of work to do walking their bloggers back from the cliff. Apparently that is a two-way street. I don’t like a lot of the stunts Camp Clinton pulled in the primary (and I hate Mark Penn), but it is over. She is on the right side now. If helping her pay off her campaign debt quickly gets her out there stumping for Obama every day, I will be the first one to chuck in 50 bucks. Paying down her debt now is not a validation of her campaign tactics- the loss invalidated them.

    John,

    This is a tough one. I would really like to make some gesture of reconcilation within the Democratic party, but I have to agree with the “campaign tactics moral hazard” argument being made by other commentators here.

    Is there perhaps some other charity for a feminist cause, that would be near-and-dear to the hearts of the majority of Hillary’s aggrieved supporters, that we could donate to as a gesture of good will without subsidizing Hillary’s decision to buy a kitchen sink (to throw at Obama) on borrowed money?

  163. 163

    I understand where your heart is John and think you make a valid case. That being said, I also feel that those declining to contribute to help her retire her debt do as well.

    For my money (literally), she gambled and lost. She thought throwing good money after bad was a viable strategy (and it would have been, I guess, if it had worked).

    Screw Penn. His stellar advice should have been tied to a performance clause. I’d sooner someone pay that kid back for his bike (with that he can do without the video games[grin]) directly than rescue her from her choice to pour money down a rathole while “ratfucking” the current presumptive nominee. If someone else does want to help her out, that is fine. I like what was said previously about it falling on the shoulders of her 18 million supporters, and then her deep pocket buds.

  164. 164

    The only “debt” that the Clinton campaign has is the $20million that Mr. and Mrs. Clinton “loaned” to it.

    They’re already worth $100million. If they never recover one cent of their “loan”, then they’ll be worth $80million.

    I really don’t think that’s too harsh of a fate.

  165. 165
    Emma Anne says:

    Second, a lot of you have laughed when I pointed to pro-Hillary bloggers and noted that they have a lot of work to do walking their bloggers back from the cliff. Apparently that is a two-way street. I don’t like a lot of the stunts Camp Clinton pulled in the primary (and I hate Mark Penn), but it is over. She is on the right side now. If helping her pay off her campaign debt quickly gets her out there stumping for Obama every day, I will be the first one to chuck in 50 bucks. Paying down her debt now is not a validation of her campaign tactics- the loss invalidated them.

    That was really quite gracious. Put it up. I’ll kick in $20.

  166. 166
    ImJohnGalt says:

    I have a better idea…how about “adopting” a family, one that is about to lose their home, or business, and helping them out financially?

    Ed McMahon, is that you?

  167. 167
    Dreggas says:

    jake Says:

    [Rubs eyes]

    Dreggas, wtf was that, the Beverly Hillbillies energy plan?

    Jesus Christ, I feel 50% stoopider after reading that.

    There’s that and the “We’ll do it just like Hitler!”

  168. 168
    empty says:

    For what its worth:

    Clinton Donors Urged To Back Obama

    Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton’s top national fundraisers convened a series of conference calls today with major donors in various regions around the country to urge them to throw their financial weight behind Sen. Barack Obama — sooner rather than later.

  169. 169
    Chris Johnson says:

    I don’t like a lot of the stunts Camp Clinton pulled in the primary (and I hate Mark Penn), but it is over. She is on the right side now. If helping her pay off her campaign debt quickly gets her out there stumping for Obama every day, I will be the first one to chuck in 50 bucks. Paying down her debt now is not a validation of her campaign tactics- the loss invalidated them.

    This is worth revisiting.

    You’ve got to understand that this is not solely about which side who is on. Obama’s campaign has not been about “Whoever you are, I’ll promise that I’m on your side!”. It’s been about “this is what I think, this is why I’m not wrong to think it, please consider thinking likewise”. On several occasions including the notorious AIPAC speech he’s had stuff to say that didn’t exactly pander (contiguous Palestine?).

    By the same token, Hillary’s behavior doesn’t suddenly cease to matter if she is on ‘the right side’. Blind party loyalty got us the Bush republicans. We cannot do any good if we behave like just a mirror image of that. The times demand that we actually come to grips with how to behave, how to govern, how to be good citizens. Not ‘how to be on the right side’ or ‘how to reward someone who promises to change sides’. Because this is bigger than just a popularity contest- a lotta work needs to be done to repair our damaged country.

    It starts at home. It starts with accurate self-appraisal and taking responsibility. I for one need to see Hillary following through by doing that. I don’t demand that she become poor or something, but she’s gotta settle her debts, especially to the ‘little people’ that got stiffed. I don’t want her brushing that off on anybody or anything else.

  170. 170
    Conservatively Liberal says:

    Regarding Hillary and what she said, this from NQ via His44:

    By TexasDarlingravatarcloseAuthor: TexasDarlin Name: Texas Darlin
    Email: tex4hillary@yahoo.com
    Site: texasdarlin.wordpress.com
    About: See Authors Posts (17) on June 10, 2008 at 2:30 PM in Current Affairs, DNC, Delegates, Democratic National Convention, Hillary Clinton, Howard Dean

    In an earlier story, No Quarter rushed to counter a rumor started today at Taylor Marsh, which published the headline Hillary Releases Delegates, linking to a quote from a delegate who was reportedly on a conference call with Clinton and Ickes last night. Apparently the rumor is now spreading like wildfire across the blogs, including at Politico.

    The Rumor is FALSE.

    I have just received an e-mail message from Mary Boergers, a former Maryland State Senator and a pledged Clinton delegate. Mary was on the conference call with Hillary Clinton last night, and she has given us permission to publish her message in full:

    I was on that conference call and there was nothing in Hillary’s comments to indicate that she was releasing her delegates and urging them to vote for Obama on the first vote in Denver. In fact what Harold Ikes said was that the campaign would like to keep Hillary’s delegates together so that she can more effectively fight for issues like universal health care to make sure it is included in the party platform.

    This seems like deliberate misinformation. (Sound familiar!)

    One of the super delegates who was in London in fact complained about the strong arm pressure from the Obama campaign to immediately (last Friday before Hillary’s speech) switch their vote to Obama.

    So to me the strategy is clear. The Obama folks want to try and prevent us from nominating Hillary at the convention and voting for her at the convention. We need to STOP this. Historically losing candidates always have their names put into nomination, give a great speech and then there is a roll call vote. The presumptive nominee gets the majority and then there may be a call to make it unanimous.

    We need to make sure that people are aware of this procedure. Once again the Obama people are trying to change the rule of the game, pretending that they were always the rules in order to push Hillary aside. We must keep them from succeeding.

    To me this is the most important thing that we can do right now. We need to attack Howard Dean for saying that he hopes there isn’t a role call vote at the convention.

    This pressure, heavy handed tactics and “shot gun” marriage effort must end. This is the fight that we need to continue!

    Mary Boergers

    Mary Borgers is a pledged Clinton delegate and a campaign volunteer county coordinator in suburban Washington D.C., and she helped to organize the brouhaha at the RBC meeting last month. With this information now being spread around, I think that someone should have Hillary address this ‘difference of opinion’. Mary Borgers is not the average Hillary supporter out there mouthing off, she has some pull with what she says because of her position. IMO, Hillary really has no choice but to address this issue.

    Until she does, I will take what Hillary is reported to have said with 10 pounds of salt.

  171. 171
    Andrew says:

    I hate to admit it but I did send $250.00 her way last Saturday after her speech. I did it through ActBlue.

    Hopefully, it’ll go towards paying off some pizza vendors.

    You really think the little guy is getting a cut of your cash before Mark Penn does?

  172. 172
    Napoleon says:

    If I had unlimited funds maybe I would, but I don’t so I want to make sure every buck I spend on campaigns to actually go to advance a cause. Although an arguement exist that giving to her may have an indirct benefit, I would prefer to get more bang for my buck and give to, say, the guy who is running against my Rep congressman who potentially can get picked off this time. No one held a gun to her head to act irresponsible and run up the debt.

    By the way, to put it in perspective the DCCC had $47m on hand. That $20m can go to increase what DCCC on hand by 40%. That is $500k a piece for 20 districts. I don’t think it is any streach to say that could result in something in the range of 2 – 6 additional pickups.

  173. 173
    D-Chance. says:

    John Cole, June 10:

    Should we set up an ActBlue account to try to offset some of the debt, or will that not go to retiring the debt? Does anyone know? If it does, maybe if we start an ActBlue account, perhaps others will follow. It certainly seems like Clinton has been acting in very good faith, and we should as well. If anyone can definitively state that money donated today will pay down her debt, I will set one up ASAP.

    I can’t believe I am contemplating fund-raising for the Clinton campaign.

    John Cole, April 24…

    We broke $7,000 with 138 donors with an average donation of about $52.00, and are well on our way to 10k by the May 6th primaries. Well done.

    As to the picking other charities, I think we will try to start that next month when we have a full month, and just adopt a charity per month. I would like to try to use as apolitical a charity as possible, and off the top of my head I can think of a few that might generate some interest- Doctors without Borders, Oxfam, the Heifer project.

    Yes, Hillary is more in need of MUPpet money. So much for 6 weeks ago.

    Well played, Mr Cole.

  174. 174
    Dayv says:

    Let Hillary Clinton retire from politics, erase all those nagging conflict of interest issues, and pay back the debt with some of her hubby’s enormous public speaking fees.

    Paying down the debt of her poisonous campaign is like helping Jonah Goldberg pay back the advance on a book’s publishing deal after it mercifully goes straight to the remainder bins.

  175. 175
    binzinerator says:

    I don’t think anyone is saying we’re morally obligated to help the Clintons. That’s just insane.

    You didn’t note that the only person who is morally obligated to pay Hillary Clinton’s campaign debts is Hillary Clinton.

    Let her take care of her own obligations, moral and financial. Save your money for your own obligations. Or give it to someone who is truly needy.

    She insisted on winner-take-all. She again and again doubled down. She ran up a huge debt. And in the end she lost. It is just foolish to take up a collection here to cover her losses now. It was her gamble, she ran up the debt, let her cover it.

    What kind of fiscal responsibility does Hillary Clinton have, exactly? One hundred million dollars net worth, and yet the bills she racked up to fulfill her personal ambitions are unpaid? Doubtlessly she had people in mind who would pay her debts if she won. Who did she expect would pay if she lost? I wonder.

    Truly can it be she gave little thought of how to pay her debts if she lost because she had always assumed she was going to win? Is this just like Super Tuesday, where she had assumed she was going to win the nomination after Feb 5, and had no plan in place for when that didn’t happen?

    No, no money from me for Hillary Clinton.

  176. 176
    Dayv says:

    Also, there are some comments here about how apparently Clinton’s campaign is legally required to pay back the loan that Clinton herself made to it — to keep her from funding the campaign with her own funds.

    Assuming this is true, what happens if the campaign does not have the funds to pay back the candidate?  Will she be fined?  Will the campaign itself somehow be censured (seems pointless for a losing and thus basically dissolved campaign).  Will she or her campaign managers be subject to possible criminal charges?

    This is not a “woo, send Clinton to jail” post, it’s honest curiosity.  While I will admit that I want her political career to end for the way she ran this campaign*, I’m not looking for some way to ruin her beyond that.

    * this is not “Clinton derangement syndrome”, this is a desire for to have appropriate consequences.

  177. 177
    Dayv says:

    This blog does weird things to asterisked footnotes.

  178. 178
    Koz says:

    That idea is going over well, I see.

    I’ll raise you. Let’s retire Hillary’s debt _and_ put her on the bottom of the ticket. Then McCain can max out the anti-Hillary vote and the anti-Obama vote. Then, when people figure out that their 401k’s are going to vanish into thin air if Obama becomes President, there’s no more ad money to spout bullshit about George Bush’s third term.

  179. 179
    hacienda says:

    It’s a noble sentiment to want to help, but our local paper just ran a story this morning on how she’s stiffed two area school districts (we’re in PA), one for 15K, which includes 9K for expediting the install on the updated A/C at the campaign’s request. Yeah, they were stupid to not get cash up front, but they admitted as much and I don’t want to help some millionaire pay back PUBLIC SCHOOLS she’s left with the tab.

    Story if you’re interested:
    http://www.mcall.com/news/loca.....5512.story

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  1. […] Incidentally, John Cole wonders if an ActBlue account can be set up to help pay off Clinton’s campaign debt. I don’t know the legalities, but I’m all for it — Clinton’s assistance to Obama deserves to be rewarded. […]

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