Dept. Of Not Getting It

Adding to Michael’s post from just a moment ago about the Clinton concession/non-concession for tonight, there are some remarks in the comments:

It seems clear to me that Team Clinton is having message control issues this AM.

and:

What we are seeing here is Clinton camp infighting, I do believe.

Some days, it is almost like many of you have completely and totally forgotten the Clinton modus operandi, and never lived through the 90’s or this campaign. What we are seeing is what the Clinton family does best- create confusion while they figure out what the best deal is for them. Trust me- as a Republican during the 90’s, it was maddening (particularly when you factor in the fact that the GOP was not exactly chock full of honest brokers).

There are several things at play here. First, the reality that Clinton is not going to win the nomination. Second, the reality that this signals the end of Clinton dominance of the Democratic party (though anyone who thinks they are now irrelevant is both wrong and stupid). Third, the notion that the Clintons do not want to cede control. Fourth, the fact that the only real political power the Clinton family has left (Bill remains a popular ex-President, Hillary is a junior senator from New York) is the support of their voting bloc, who have remained quite loyal to them. Finally, the desire to do as well as they can in the elections today to shore up their last bargaining chip.

The Clintons know they will not win the nomination, so they are now not so quietly sending a clear message- we still matter.
They know they do not have the nomination for now, but you need them more than they need you, and, well, things can happen. And, quite frankly, it would be stupid to push the Clintons. Although I get tired of the notion that Hillary is a bomb that needs to be defused (something Hilzoy discussed a few days ago), the Clintons are going to be a major asset to the Obama election efforts, and there really is no need to push them. Don’t be fooled by what is going on today, but there is no need to antagonize them.

While morons in the blogosphere will claim it is up to Obama to unite the party, the person who is really going to have to do much of the leg work uniting the party is Hillary- they know that, and they are letting us know it. Once again, Rahm Emanuel:

“The way the loser loses,” said Representative Rahm Emanuel of Illinois, who is close to both candidates but has made no endorsement, “will determine whether the winner wins in November.”

Don’t get too worked up about what Clinton does the next few days, just give them and their voters some space and time.

*** Update ***

Chuck Todd just made an interesting point- notice how team Clinton is managing to make tonight about her, when really, tonight should be about Obama, the nominee.

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194 replies
  1. 1
    kwAwk says:

    Words of wisdom escaping from the fog. :)

  2. 2

    […] John Cole gets it, I think: There are several things at play here. First, the reality that Clinton is not going to win the nomination. Second, the reality that this signals the end of Clinton dominance of the Democratic party (though anyone who thinks they are now irrelevant is both wrong and stupid). Third, the notion that the Clintons do not want to cede control. Fourth, the fact that the only real political power the Clinton family has left (Bill remains a popular ex-President, Hillary is a junior senator from New York) is the support of their voting bloc, who have remained quite loyal to them. Finally, the desire to do as well as they can in the elections today to shore up their last bargaining chip. … […]

  3. 3
    TheFountainHead says:

    John, are you on allergy medication or something? That was the most disjointed and rambling thing I’ve ever seen you write here. I’m not disagreeing with your points, just wondering why it took so much text to get them out?

  4. 4
    srv says:

    Hillary isn’t a bomb to be defused but we are in the middle of what is effectively a hostage crises?

  5. 5
    mantis says:

    I have a theory on this. First, anonymous campaign officials tell reporters that she is conceding (something), then when the story comes out the campaign goes ballistic denying it, and decries the media for trying to push her out of the race. This filters down to her supporters who go nuts, saying it’s sexist (everything is) and wrong, etc. Then they ask for more donations to keep Clinton’s campaign going against all the forces in the world (the now evil media, Obama, reality) that want her to quit, sexistly.

    It’s all a ploy to get enough money to pay back debts. After today the only people she needs to persuade are the supers, and you don’t need advertising or travel money for that. It’s all about the debt.

    About the sexism, I defer to Nigel.

  6. 6
    tballou says:

    OMG! Cole has a temporary reprieve from his terminal case of CDS!

    Finally, after suffering months of irrational and just plain ridiculous harangues about Clinton, you finally have it right, and have at least temporarily restored my faith in Balloon Juice as a thinking person’s blog.

  7. 7
    JL says:

    FountainHead, It sometimes takes me longer to write when I’m being politically correct. For example instead of saying Hillary just STFU, I might say that she has run a strong campaign if her intention was to damage the democratic party in November.

  8. 8
    John Cole says:

    John, are you on allergy medication or something? That was the most disjointed and rambling thing I’ve ever seen you write here. I’m not disagreeing with your points, just wondering why it took so much text to get them out?

    I was up till 3 am because of the Pens. I could not fall asleep, then got up at 7 am because of a large hungry cat.

    At any rate, while you wrote that, I was editing the post. Check now and see if it is better.

  9. 9
    John Cole says:

    OMG! Cole has a temporary reprieve from his terminal case of CDS!

    Their campaign was maddening. All this nonsense for months when she clearly was not going to win. What can I say?

  10. 10
    ThymeZone says:

    the person who is really going to have to do much of the leg work uniting the party is Hillary-

    I’d say it this way: We are going to see three unifying forces.

    Barack is one. Hillary is one. And John McCainbush is going to be the biggest one.

    Long hard year ahead for the GOP.

  11. 11
    TheFountainHead says:

    I was up till 3 am because of the Pens. I could not fall asleep, then got up at 7 am because of a large hungry cat.

    I don’t understand Hockey fans. Feed the cat your allergy meds? Just a thought…

    And yes, the editing has much improved the reading.

    I’m not sure why tb and Skwawk are praising you for this post. The fact remains that Hillary’s S.O.P. is to distort and confuse to bide time while she holds a knife to the throat of the party. But I guess that’s why she’s so great. She’s a fighter.

  12. 12
    mrmobi says:

    Don’t get too worked up about what Clinton does the next few days, just give them and their voters some space and time.

    Excellent advice, John.

    Having argued with folks at Talk Left and other places, I don’t see any further purpose in engaging Clinton supporters. This is not a good time for them.

    The genuinely crazy among them will sit the election out, or vote for McCain. I’m not really interested in being in a political party with them anyway, so, for those idiots, I say “good riddance.” The folks at No Quarter can go fuck themselves, or join the Party of Torture, it’s where they belong.

    For what it’s worth, I think we’re going to see a push from a large number of superdelegates for the “unity” ticket with Hillary as VP. I, for one, hope they succeed. I think that ticket, at this time, is unbeatable.

  13. 13
    Nicholas Weaver says:

    Anyone else think that Hillary is like, say, Jason from Friday the 13th at this point?

    The Zombie just keeps coming?

  14. 14
    BH-Buck says:

    Don’t get too worked up about what Clinton does the next few days, just give them and their voters some space and time.

    In other words, “ignore teh stoopidity?”

  15. 15
    TheFountainHead says:

    For what it’s worth, I think we’re going to see a push from a large number of superdelegates for the “unity” ticket with Hillary as VP. I, for one, hope they succeed. I think that ticket, at this time, is unbeatable.

    As much as I think this would suck, to see the Hillary campaign’s anti-Hope campaign what has been a thoroughly positive campaign from Obama, I think you may be correct that we will see this push. I’m not so sure that it’s unbeatable. It charges the Republican base in a way McCain can’t. It gives both the racists AND the misogynists a reason to come out in droves, and it doesn’t buy Obama any electoral math whatsoever, nor does it help him with the “not enough experience” meme, because there are plenty of soundbytes calling her “experience” into question from the primary.

  16. 16
    Mike D. says:

    You know, _Dog Day Afternoon_ would have had a much happier ending if the American Democratic party had been playing the role of the cops. Nobody would get hurt or killed except the hostages, and every time someone got excited everyone else would frown and say, “Easy, easy. Deep breaths. Go to your happy place.”

    Understanding a little better about how the Congressional class of 2006 has gotten away with accomplishing jack-point-shit of their political mandate…

  17. 17
    Karmakin says:

    Yup. Best just to play it cool.

    The reality is we’re probably at Obama’s floor right now, and he’s still competitive if not outright winning. No need to force it, would be nice to have them all on the good side. The bigger the beating to the GOP the better in my opinion.

  18. 18
    John S. says:

    I don’t see any further purpose in engaging Clinton supporters. This is not a good time for them.

    Exactly.

    Hence the absence of our more favorite Clinton supporters. When they still thought they had a chance, they would pop over here to gleefully spew their talking points. Now, they are having a moment of silence while they mourn their candidate.

    Once Obama is the presumptive nominee, I fully anticipate their triumphant return with NEW and IMPROVED concern trolling.

  19. 19
    Mary says:

    It gives both the racists AND the misogynists a reason to come out in droves

    Yeah, but aren’t the same people likely to be racists AND misogynists? We may see a slight increase in opposition votes, but nothing like a doubling of same.

    As much as the Clintons have royally pissed me off over the past few months, I think I can deal with Clinton as VP. I can deal with just about anything that gets Obama in the White House. I know that her presence counters his message of change, and someone will have to wrap Bill in leather and lock him in a box so he can play The Gimp, but I think the benefits will outweigh the costs if Obama has no other options.

  20. 20
    Wilfred says:

    They know they do not have the nomination for now, but you need them more than they need you, and, well, things can happen. And, quite frankly, it would be stupid to push the Clintons.

    Maybe you mean that’s what they think; if not, I disagree. For one thing, it’s time for Obama to take command and put the Clintons in their correct place. He doesn’t need to do it aggressively or insultingly he just needs to make it clear to everybody involved that he is now the standard bearer of the Democratic Party and not defer to anyone. If he doesn’t do this, he’ll be a lob for the Clintons, dependent on not offending them in any way.

    I’m no politician but I’ve lived by my wits in a third world country for 12 years and I can read the Clintons with my eyes closed. He has to bury them or they will bury him. All of this sulking by die-hard Clintonites is a bluff that Obama has to call, not negotiate.

  21. 21
    Napoleon says:

    It will ba a disaster if HRC ends up on the ticket as VP. Absolute fucking disaster.

  22. 22
    phobos says:

    I say she does drop out, because a deal has been offered for Clinton as veep if she can sell it to her team.

    /tinfoil hat interference

  23. 23
    Laertes says:

    Pushing Hillary supporters to hop on the Obama bandwagon tomorrow is like hitting on a widow at her husband’s wake.

  24. 24
    The Moar You Know says:

    For what it’s worth, I think we’re going to see a push from a large number of superdelegates for the “unity” ticket with Hillary as VP. I, for one, hope they succeed. I think that ticket, at this time, is unbeatable.

    If by “unbeatable” you mean “crater worse than Manuel Noriega’s face”, then I agree.

    Very bad idea. Hillary adds few positives (less if you consider a couple of thousand Kool-Aid drinking cultists a negative) and a ton of negatives to the ticket.

  25. 25
    TheFountainHead says:

    if Obama has no other options.

    Money quote. He has all the options in the word. Wilfred also has it right. If Obama wants to lead the party, which he will need to do to more effectively lead the country, he cannot allow the Clintons to hang around his neck.

  26. 26

    By the way, RE: the Michelle Tape Thang:

    1) Why is Larry Johnson, Clinton fan, working with Roger Stone, the creator of “Citizens United Not Timid”?

    2) Booman and other folk have pre-debunked it. You won’t believe how effing stupid this is. Really.

  27. 27
    Dennis - SGMM says:

    No Hillary for VP. If Obama appears beholden to the Clintons or if he allows the impression that he’s running with their permission then he’s not the head of the party.

  28. 28
    JL says:

    We will see Hillary again and again in ads touting her support and agreement with McCain on foreign policy. Her supporters will probably be gleeful that the republicans are using her campaign speeches against Obama. At this point I wouldn’t trust her on the Supreme Court.

  29. 29
    sunny says:

    I will seriously have to doubt Obama’s judgement if he picks Clinton for VP.

  30. 30
    John S. says:

    I’m not sure what stage the Clintonosphere is in right now, but it is very weird out there:

    Corrente

    To Sen. Obama: Why I Can’t Vote For You

    You don’t respect my candidate. You say belittling things. You don’t respect me. You say bad things about me and my friends and family.

    I’m sure McCain won’t do any of those things.

    The comments are funny, too, especially from someone claiming they are leaving the country and moving to Germany if Obama wins.

    Yeah, these people need to be left alone for quite a while…

  31. 31
    jon says:

    Here’s the thing I’d like to see (though it would be a backroom deal):

    Obama (to Clinton): I don’t want you as my VP, but I’ll let you head the committee to choose mine.
    Clinton: I don’t want to be VP, so that’s a deal, but what else do I get?
    Obama: You pretty much get to choose my VP, you get to enthusiastically support me, and I’ll put you on my court appointee committee where you can nominate yourself.
    Clinton: Done.

  32. 32
    TheFountainHead says:

    Pushing Hillary supporters to hop on the Obama bandwagon tomorrow is like hitting on a widow at her husband’s wake.

    Yes, but if you absolutely, positively have to get laid, and get laid soon, that sort of gives you motivation, doesn’t it?

  33. 33
    BombIranForChrist says:

    I am confused.

    One week, you are frothing at the mouth with your hatred for the Clintons, claiming they will take the fight to the convention, and now you are saying we should all stay calm and let her lose gracefully?

    I am not disputing your main point (today), but wow. Why the sudden change in tone? Do you think she is no longer taking it all the way to the convention and we are all crazy if we think she isn’t?

  34. 34
    zmulls says:

    I think Obama is taking the “deep breath, give her some space” approach. He’s probably right.

    I’m getting whiplash from all the conflicting accounts, and I’ve decided to see what happens tonight. Once the polls close on Montana and South Dakota, and there are at least a few more superdelegate announcements, and Obama makes his speech…well, we won’t be in primary season anymore, well be in post-primary.

    I think, even if she doesn’t concede outright tonight, the dynamic of the next couple of days (no more places to campaign, people like Rendell and Vilsack calling her to talk her down, Obama hitting the magic number, etc.) will change the facts on the ground. I think backing off and letting it happen is smart (this is one thing I’ve been noticing about Obama during the primaries — he knows when to hold back and let things work themselves out)

    If Clinton wants to VP slot I think it would be quite difficult to keep her off the ticket. I don’t think an Obama/Clinton ticket is necessarily a bad thing. She might want to be the first female VP in history (since she won’t be the first female POTUS). My worry would be what to do with the globe-trotting, independent spouse of the VP, who won’t have any need to stay on message.

    But if I were Hilary Clinton, the VP post is the last place I’d want to be. She doesn’t want to be muzzled. She deserves — really deserves — a prominent and visible place. Majority Leader of the Senate, or Obama giving her the reins of the healthcare project. (I’m betting that no matter what happens, large parts of the Clinton healthcare plan make it into the Obama plan — between Clinton and the Edwardses, there will be some good solid compromising).

  35. 35
    sunny says:

    it’s time for Obama to take command and put the Clintons in their correct place. He doesn’t need to do it aggressively or insultingly he just needs to make it clear to everybody involved that he is now the standard bearer of the Democratic Party and not defer to anyone. If he doesn’t do this, he’ll be a lob for the Clintons, dependent on not offending them in any way.

    I’m no politician but I’ve lived by my wits in a third world country for 12 years and I can read the Clintons with my eyes closed. He has to bury them or they will bury him. All of this sulking by die-hard Clintonites is a bluff that Obama has to call, not negotiate.

    Good grief yes, thank you.

  36. 36
    Dennis - SGMM says:

    Besides the philosophical differences and the electoral math, another major problem with Hillary as VP is that the Obama White House would have to devote substantial resources to providing Bill with fresh interns.

  37. 37
    John Cole says:

    I am confused.

    One week, you are frothing at the mouth with your hatred for the Clintons, claiming they will take the fight to the convention, and now you are saying we should all stay calm and let her lose gracefully?

    I am not disputing your main point (today), but wow. Why the sudden change in tone? Do you think she is no longer taking it all the way to the convention and we are all crazy if we think she isn’t?

    Because the supers are finally moving, and the Clinton camp themselves have changed their tone. If the supers had not moved, I would still firmly believe the Clinton camp is going to take this to the convention. Debbie Dingell endorsing Obama is the end of this.

  38. 38
    El Cid says:

    Actually, I think the biggest unifying force will be the next few weeks when all the public appearances, institutions, politicians, and rituals begin emphasizing Obama’s identity as the Democratic candidate as opposed to Hillary Clinton’s rival.

    Watch carefully.

    This supposed dedicated Clinton voting bloc will very, very rapidly do what it always does — drift to the actual candidate.

    The Clinton campaign knows that its maximal power as exerted via a voting bloc is right now — these few days. And that is one reason why Obama won’t even begin to touch the VP game for a while.

    The power exerted by delegate control, though, will continue right up until the convention vote. But that’s different.

  39. 39
    dslak says:

    She doesn’t want to be muzzled.

    Then Secretary of Health and Human Services really isn’t the position for her, either. Hillary should have a role in a branch of the government other than the executive, where her ego will result in her promoting the power of branches which have been heavily trodden upon recently.

  40. 40
    TJ says:

    I’m not sure what stage the Clintonosphere is in right now, but it is very weird out there:

    Yeah, today of all days, it’s going to be weird. But ultimately, there are only three reasons why a Clinton supporter wouldn’t ultimately come around to support Obama.

    A) They’re Republicans (like Larry Johnson).

    B) They’re racists (like Riverdaughter (who was banned from Daily Kos for racism) and most of the commenters on Larry Johnson’s blog)

    C) They’re so emotionally invested in Hillary’s campaign and the idea of her as president that they’re prepared to throw away everything they claim to care passionately about, purely out of spite.

    We can only hope that that last group will be quite small.

  41. 41
    crw says:

    For all the Hillary as VP people, don’t forget that brings a twofor. You get Bill too. Do you really want him stepping all over Obama’s dick?

  42. 42
    Napoleon says:

    Obama should also make it clear to her that since he has already said the first thing that he wants to move on in his first 100 days is health care, and that is her sigature issue, that he thinks she would be far more valuable leading the charge for it on Capital Hill. The Kennedy-Clinton Full Health Care Act of 2009 or something like that is what they could call it.

    And as much as I have grown to dislike her I honestly think her being able to erase what happened with health care in 94 with being at the forefront of getting it passed this time would be a great thing for her.

  43. 43
    JL says:

    I don’t understand why she deserves this. Please explain

    But if I were Hilary Clinton, the VP post is the last place I’d want to be. She doesn’t want to be muzzled. She deserves—really deserves—a prominent and visible place. Majority Leader of the Senate, or Obama giving her the reins of the healthcare project.

    IMO Edwards deserves AG or a cabinet post for his poverty message. He has been an advocate for the middle class and poor for a long time.

  44. 44
    Punchy says:

    I’m waiting for Obama to offer Clinton a package to cut her lawn, wax her hoo-hah, walk her dogs, and nommy Chelsea for Cabinet position.

    And instruct her TL and H44 clowns to grow the fuck up and shut the fuck up.

  45. 45
    JL says:

    Hillary would have a difficult time being vetted as VP because they would want to look at her’s spouces books and supporters also.

  46. 46
    montysano says:

    It will ba a disaster if HRC ends up on the ticket as VP. Absolute fucking disaster.

    While I hate the idea of HRC being on the ticket, will it be a disaster? If she can talk her supporters down from the roof, it would probably mean a landslide in the fall.

    OTOH: if Obama chooses Sebelius or Napolitano, will all be forgiven? Would the angry HRC supporters bitch and grumble, but still fall in line? I’m not smart enough to know, and my animus towards HRC and Bill certainly cloud my judgement.

  47. 47
    Neal says:

    I will be absolutely crushed if she gets the VP nod. I’m praying that isn’t the case.

  48. 48
    zmulls says:

    dslak

    I agree, a cabinet post would ordinarily be media death, and she wouldn’t want that.

    However, I believe the chance to take a very public role — *the* very public role — of championing health care reform (and the chance to finish what she started 15 years ago) would be hard to resist. If Obama promised her she’d be in front, visible, and could run that show — I think she’d take it. (And it would be smart for him to do that — Lincoln-Seward or Lincoln-Chase smart).

    I personally would *like* to see Hilary Clinton in a very visible role. I have a lot of respect for her abilities, especially as a legislator. I have John C.’s contempt and outrage at the campaign she has run — I leaned towards her when Edwards dropped out, but she lost me bigtime, and Obama won me over. But that doesn’t take away her capabilities.

    My choice for her would be Majority Leader (let *her* rip the Republicans’ throats out!), but I think she’d take the Health Care post if it were big enough.

  49. 49
    Napoleon says:

    Hillary would have a difficult time being vetted as VP because they would want to look at her’s spouces books and supporters also.

    I actually feel this is a built in excuse BO can use to not pick her. There is bound to be something that Bill has done over the last 8 years he can point to as disqualifying her.

  50. 50
    jibeaux says:

    Gene Weingarten: Good afternoon.

    The news today is full of spec

    That Hillary is quittin’.

    That the lion-lady candidate

    May go out as a kitten…

    She’ll say the things she has to say

    But the truth may go unspoken:

    Her heart is not still in the race

    Because it has been broken.

    The man who made her whole career

    Lies in the ground, where ants root —

    The world has lost Yves St. Laurent

    Inventor of the pantsuit .

  51. 51
    elvigy says:

    I’m with Sunny and Wilfred. This is not about the nomination any more. Anyone can see that she has lost that. This is about holding on to as much power within the party as they can. And if it means dragging Obama down, then so be it. Obama definitely has to make it clear somehow, and without alienating voters, that the Clintons are NOT the ones calling the shots these days. Otherwise, what’s the point? He’ll just be a figurehead president under the thumb of the DLC and it’s bestest friends, the Clintons.

  52. 52
    John Cole says:

    They’re racists (like Riverdaughter (who was banned from Daily Kos for racism) and most of the commenters on Larry Johnson’s blog)

    Did not know this about Riverdaughter. Anyone have details?

    It sure would explain a lot of her anger.

  53. 53
    mantis says:

    He has been an advocate for the middle class and poor for a long time.

    Except for, you know, the time he was in the Senate. Don’t get me wrong, Edwards is a nice guy and all, but to believe the idea that he’s been a crusader for the poor and middle class is to believe campaign rhetoric with no real basis. See here for some of what I’m talking about.

  54. 54
    MBunge says:

    The fact that the Clinton campaign kept up all this BS up until the very last second indicates that they can’t be dealt with in a reasonable manner. But I think Obama realizes the best way to deal with them isn’t a frontal confrontation but a seige. The Clintons want their enemies to try and beat them up and they were never able to figure out how to handle Obama starving them out.

    Mike

  55. 55
    John S. says:

    My choice for her would be Majority Leader

    WILL. NOT. HAPPEN.

    You do realize that Hillary is 32nd in terms of seniority (Obama is 34th) in the Senate? Sorry, but there is no way to justify handing her that position over so many other people.

    Just stick her in the corner to cry it out. Eventually, she will get tired and take a nap.

  56. 56
    passerby says:

    Billary Clinton = Political Extortion

    Given the political ambition of these two, I don’t think Obama’s going to give Cabinet nor Supreme Court positions to either.

    In order to accomplish change, Obama needs to surround himself with those he trusts. Who trusts the Clintons?

    The Clintons are intent on holding as much power as they can possibly reap from this failed campaign.

    I hope they keep the ugliness of their struggle behind the scenes.

    Its ok to hope. Right?…

    T

  57. 57
  58. 58
    JL says:

    Napoleon, Bill has already refused to release the names of the donors to his library and he has the right to do that, but it does not make for proper vetting for VP. Geraldine’s husbands’ records were on display during her candidacy for VP and certainly did not help.

  59. 59
    JL says:

    Napoleon, Bill has already refused to release the names of the donors to his library and he has the right to do that, but it does not make for proper vetting for VP. Geraldine’s husbands’ records were on display during her candidacy for VP and it certainly did not help.

  60. 60
    TJ says:

    Check out her last diary at Daily Kos. I think she was banned shortly after.

  61. 61
    bostondreams says:

    tonight she be about Obama, the nominee.

    She be about Obama, you be about Obama, I be about Obama, we ALL be about Obama! Woohoo!

    Seriously, here’s to sowing confusion. Ugh.

  62. 62
    Napoleon says:

    While I hate the idea of HRC being on the ticket, will it be a disaster?

    Yes, I can all but guarantee it will be a disaster. You end up with not one, but two (Bill and Hillary) people in the campaign with their own agenda that they will not give a second thought to pursuing. All the BS drama that you have seen with HRC’s campaign over the last 6 months you will then see transfered over to BO’s campaign. IMO Obama should do what Bush did (one of the only smart things he did do) and pick an elderstatesman type who has no intention of attempting to follow BO in the Presidency at the end of an 8 year administration. Dodd, Biden or Nunn would do the job.

  63. 63
    demimondian says:

    Actually, Saturday’s vote was the end of this, and was the reason that Ickes was so genuinely enraged at the end of the theatrical set piece. (Yes, he was doing his job. No, he was not happy. Those aren’t the same thing at all.) When the four Clinton votes crossed over and gave Obama more than the minimal cushion for the 69-59 compromise, it was all over.

    Until then, there had been some faint hope that they could string it out to the credentials committee and get the 40% there which they needed to get a minority report out onto the floor. When they couldn’t keep their troops in line on the RBC, that hope evaporated, and Obama had it in the bag.

  64. 64
    zmulls says:

    JL

    Why does she deserve a visible and prominent place?

    Because she’s smart and capable, a fighter, a strong voice for basic Democratic values. Because she has been an excellent Senator most of the time (the Iraq vote a huge exception) — by all accounts she does more homework than more people and knows the nuts and bolts of legislation. She is able, surprisingly to reach across the aisle.

    She is the wife of a former President, and came quite close to being the Democratic nominee for President herself. She has a lot of support — strong support — within the party. Many of the people who will be moving to Obama over the next week are still supportive of her. People like Rendell and Vilsack think highly of her.

    I think you don’t throw talented people like that away. I am in line with most of this site’s commenters and poster in how I feel about her during this campaign. I have barely been able to think straight, from frothing at the mouth listening to the crappy spin coming out of her campaign, and I hold her responsible.

    But history is replete with rough political battles followed by reconciliations. If she had run a more positive campaign she probably would have won. My inclination is to take a breath and get back on the same side.

    I think she deserves a place in the party, and I think she’s also earned it. My current feelings — my current *strong* feelings — aside.

  65. 65
    NickM says:

    To Sen. Obama: Why I Can’t Vote For You

    You don’t respect my candidate. You say belittling things. You don’t respect me. You say bad things about me and my friends and family.

    Sounds like someone who quite literally is hearing voices in their heads.

    HRC is probably happy she didn’t get universal health care passed; treating mental illness erodes her base.

  66. 66
    Tsulagi says:

    Don’t get too worked up about what Clinton does the next few days, just give them and their voters some space and time.

    Awww, is it kumbaya time now? jk

  67. 67
    Punchy says:

    I would literally cream my jeans the minute I discover Hillary Clinton becomes a SC nommy. I neither like nor dislike her, but can you imagine the collect head explosions by the Republicans? Is there enough guaze on the planet to hold it all together?

    Me thinks no.

  68. 68
    John S. says:

    Did not know this about Riverdaughter. Anyone have details?

    I don’t know about her being racist, but she does seem to think that Obama is the “Affirmative Action” candidate.

    Seriously.

  69. 69
    Cain says:

    Well boyz and gals, it’s over.. The AP seems to think Obama is the nominee:

    link here

  70. 70
    demimondian says:

    Awww, is it kumbaya time now? jk

    Yup, it is. So knock back a shot of Crown Royal to wipe out the taste of bile in your throat, and sing out.

  71. 71
    Napoleon says:

    Napoleon, Bill has already refused to release the names of the donors to his library and he has the right to do that, but it does not make for proper vetting for VP.

    Great, if I was BO that is the excuse I would use not to consider her for the position.

    A PS to my last post on why taking HRC as VP would be a disaster. One of the best things about BO winning is he did it with relying very little on the institutional donor base, which of anything gives me the most hope regarding a potential BO presidency. Even if HRC’s donors contribute to him going forward I can really see him simply not feeling that he owes any of them squat. I think it would be a huge step back from the freedom this gives him to then let those donor’s noses back under the tent in the form of HRC.

  72. 72
    zmulls says:

    John S

    The Majority Leader position has nothing to do with seniority. Really. The ML is whomever the Dem Senators want to have in charge.

    I remember when Hubert Humphrey ran against Robert Byrd for the position, and I couldn’t figure out how they could deny HHH that position.

    I don’t see Reid getting forced out, but I’m willing to bet he doesn’t want it anymore. I think Hilary has enough respect from her colleagues that if she wanted it she could have it; if nothing else it would be a way to unify the party and let her make history (first female ML).

    (And frankly, I think she’d be great at that job — Lyndon Johnson kind of great)

  73. 73
    Face says:

    Dodd, Biden or Nunn would do the job.

    Webb or Hagel. Webb elimates the “no military experience” angle. Hagel could draw more moderate R’s over the aisle. Not to mention, lately he’s been basically a RINO, at least w/r/t the Bush policies.

  74. 74

    Most of the HRC camp focused exclusively on the primary for the last few months and have basically ignored what McCain has been saying. Once they start focusing on the GE and what the Republicans are saying the prospect of a third W term will heal those misgivings and hurt feelings pretty quickly.

    The real fanatics at NQ and Hillaryis44 are worth a moments concern. They are truly off the deep end. The others will come around, and the GBCW-like post over at Corrente is just venting.

    They’ll get over it. Its not like they’re the first ones to post overwrought, hand wringing drivel online, is it?

  75. 75

    Home. I have no home.
    Hunted…despised… living like an animal — the jungle is my home!
    But I will show the world that I can be its master.
    I shall perfect my own race of (white) people
    — a race of atomic supermen (and women!)
    that will conquer the world!

    ~ Hellary Clinton ’08

  76. 76
    Xanthippas says:

    Chuck Todd just made an interesting point- notice how team Clinton is managing to make tonight about her, when really, tonight should be about Obama, the nominee.

    That’s probably true, but it will only last as long as it takes people to figure out that Obama has won. On which, the AP has this to say now:

    Barack Obama effectively clinched the Democratic presidential nomination Tuesday, based on an Associated Press tally of convention delegates, becoming the first black candidate ever to lead his party into a fall campaign for the White House.

  77. 77
    TheFountainHead says:

    I KAN HAz UNIDEE PONEE NAU!!?/!!??

  78. 78
    rob! says:

    Home. I have no home.
    Hunted…despised… living like an animal—the jungle is my home!
    But I will show the world that I can be its master.
    I shall perfect my own race of (white) people—a race of atomic supermen (and women!)
    that will conquer the world!

    i bet Hillary’s attitude towards Obama matches Bela’s take on Boris Karloff, as well…

  79. 79
    mantis says:

    Chuck Todd just made an interesting point- notice how team Clinton is managing to make tonight about her, when really, tonight should be about Obama, the nominee.

    Here’s what Armando says about that:

    Obama doe snot need this night and his people made a big mistake by trying to make tonight his night.

    He can only look ungracious at this point.

    It’s ungracious for the winner to win. What a moron.

  80. 80
    Napoleon says:

    Webb elimates the “no military experience” angle.

    Webb, like HRC, I think would be much more valuable in the Senate then as VP. BO will need people like him to introduce bills to withdraw from Iraq. I personally don’t think VPs ever win you elections they can just cause you problems if you pick the wrong one. I also think its silly to take someone who has a real future at where they are at, which is why I lean towards an elder statesman type of person.

  81. 81
    phobos says:

    Well boyz and gals, it’s over.. The AP seems to think Obama is the nominee

    Yep. Even FOX News seems to be throwing in the towel. Let the healing begin!

  82. 82
    Callisto says:

    Chuck Todd just made an interesting point- notice how team Clinton is managing to make tonight about her, when really, tonight should be about Obama, the nominee.

    Of course. The last ‘fuck you’ on the way out the door.

  83. 83
    SmilingPolitely says:

    No to having Hillary on the ticket! The Clintons would completely undercut his theme of change, don’t you think?

    Putting a Clinton on the ticket, especially after their disgusting campaign, undercuts his message of change, don’t you think?

  84. 84
    Tsulagi says:

    Yup, it is. So knock back a shot of Crown Royal to wipe out the taste of bile in your throat, and sing out.

    I’m an elitist, I favor single-malt Scotch, preferably in its teens. And I don’t sing, but feel free to hum a little if you like.

  85. 85
    John Cole says:

    Armando has been a total wanker this entire nomination process. He should change his name to Baghdad Bob, which is more accurate than Big tent Democrat.

  86. 86
    Wilfred says:

    Nice piece about Webb here

  87. 87
    demimondian says:

    I think she’d be great at that job—Lyndon Johnson kind of great

    Actually, yes — the very heartlessness that made her a poor campaigner will make her a great ML

  88. 88
    mantis says:

    The supers are going one at a tame every half hour or so. Seems coordinated, but who knows. Eight so far today:

    Kilpatrick, Dingell, Wiener, Lalonde (1/2 MI SDs), Clyburn, Chapelle-Nadal, DeChant, Beatty…

    Expecting more. At this rate he’ll have at least 25 new SDs by the time the polls close tonight.

  89. 89
    TheFountainHead says:

    Webb needs to stay where he is. I will put a few chips down on Mark Warner former governor of Virginia.

  90. 90
    Thinkerton says:

    Wow. It is a pleasure to read so many thoughtful, intelligent comments.

    Put me in the camp that thinks HRC as the VP candidate would be a disaster. One thing we’ve heard over and over during the campaign is that voters want change. They are ignoring nearly all the typical, pivotal issues — experience, race, etc. — because BHO not only represents change but is actually talking substantively about it. Having HRC on the ticket would, I think, neutralize this.

    I think the MSM has gotten a lot of their analysis wrong so far (i.e. the voters are reacting differently than the MSM would have us think), but I do think “change” is a real issue and is being reflected in the votes so far. BHO needs a running mate to reinforce that.

    I also agree with the notion that the Clintons are just too self-absorbed. I can imagine that they’d pull together for the sake of the party during the general election — but I am not sure they would, and I worry that HRC on the ticket would work more against BHO than for him. Or — at least she would work for her own interests only, and any coincident interests for BHO would just be luck.

  91. 91
    tom.a says:

    Clinton is managing to make tonight about her, when really, tonight should be about Obama

    That’s exactly right. Clinton will do whatever she can to prevent Obama from securing the win himself, rather, SHE will GIVE Obama the win, at least that’s the perception she wants which I’m sure the media will happily gobble up.

    No to having Hillary on the ticket! The Clintons would completely undercut his theme of change, don’t you think?

    Yes. Also, it would be near impossible to keep them on message. They would most likely undercut much of Obama’s authority and image of Leadership. She would certainly help him clinch the nomination and it would be fun to watch her destroy McCain’s VP choice, but she’d be a disaster for Obama as VP.

  92. 92
    Tim H. says:

    People who run for President are almost egomaniacs by definition. Egos that big do not deflate quickly or easily.

  93. 93

    KENNEDY
    Mrs. Clinton, I know you’re very busy,
    but could I have your autograph?

    HILLARY
    (cordial)
    Of course.

    Ted Kennedy hands her a scrap of paper. Hillary signs it.

    KENNEDY
    You know which campaign of yours I love,
    Mrs. Clinton? “The 2008 Deomcratic Primary.”
    You were great as Obama’s sidekick.

    Hillary’s face suddenly hardens. She snaps.

    HILLARY
    “Sidekick”?? “OBAMA”?!!

    Hillary insanely RIPS up the autograph.

    HILLARY
    Fuck you!! Obama doesn’t deserve
    to smell my shit! That slimey
    cocksucker can rot in hell, for all
    I care!!!

    WIDE

    Bill Clinton panickedly runs up.

    BILL
    What happened?! Jesus, Teddy, what
    did you do?

    KENNEDY
    (upset, close to crying)
    Nothin’! I told her she was great.

    HILLARY
    How dare that asshole bring up
    Obama?!! You think it takes talent
    to play Mr. Hope-a-Dope?! NO! It’s
    just make-up and grunting! GRRR!
    GRRR! GRRR! Yes We Can!!

    Bill is frozen in fear. He glances across the stage.

    McAuliffe is flabbergasted. He points urgently at his watch.

    Bill nods. He motions to Kennedy: Get out of here. Kennedy runs
    away. Bill leans in to Hillary.

    Bill
    You’re right, Hillary. Now the first viable
    female candidate, that’s a part that takes acting.

    HILLARY
    Of course! A female candidate requires
    presence. It’s all in the voice, and
    the eyes, and the hand —

  94. 94
    Llelldorin says:

    Actually, there’s some advantage to having Clinton as an obviously forced choice as veep. It’d let her play the traditional attack dog role without it necessarily blowing back on Obama’s overwhelmingly positive style.

    Obama can run the same happy “let’s work together and solve our problems” campaign that he’s run so far, and Clinton can spend a happy four months disemboweling McCain. Once they win, she takes the role of President of the Senate seriously, and becomes Obama’s legislative technician.

    Yes, we get tied to Clintonic drama that way. Still, that strikes me as inevitable anyway. Might as well put her in a position to make the Republicans absolutely, utterly crazy. Clinton on the ticket strikes me as the quickest route to getting the Republicans to behave like maniacs, which leaves us looking like the grownup party.

  95. 95
    Xanthippas says:

    Armando has been a total wanker this entire nomination process. He should change his name to Baghdad Bob, which is more accurate than Big tent Democrat.

    Or Bizarro Bob, since everything is the opposite of what he actually says. If Bizarro says Obama’s team made a “big mistake” you can count on them having moved that much closer to the presidency.

  96. 96
    ThymeZone says:

    Praise Jesus. NMYM.

  97. 97

    *** Update ***

    Chuck Todd just made an interesting point- notice how team Clinton is managing to make tonight about her, when really, tonight should be about Obama, the nominee.

    Let her have it. The season ends here for her. Obama goes on to the World Series, and has a long way to go to claim the ultimate prize. Its not really time for Obama supporters to celebrate. Its nice to have the nomination, but I hear the long knives shapening in the distance.

  98. 98
    John S. says:

    The Majority Leader position has nothing to do with seniority. Really. The ML is whomever the Dem Senators want to have in charge.

    Right, and who the Senators want has a lot to do with seniority. These are people that have egos larger than the states they represent, so if you really think that some of the people that have been there for decades will willingly hand Hillary the job because…well, just because – then I think you are sorely mistaken.

    If they thought she would be best for the job, then I can see them handing over the reigns of power regardless of experience, but as divisive as she has been within her own party and more importantly considering how she hasn’t really been much of a leader in the Senate (with the exception of maybe pork spending), I just don’t see it happening.

    Also, don’t you at least see the irony of someone who ran on ‘experience’ trying to take over a position where she is one of the least ‘experienced’ and arguing that it’s no big deal?

  99. 99
    Andrew says:

    Armando has been is a total wanker this entire nomination process.

    Fixed. Jeralyn may have gone bonkers but at least she’s not making a retarded attempt to pretend otherwise.

  100. 100
    mantis says:

    Big round numbers are great.

  101. 101
    cleek says:
    I think she’d be great at that job—Lyndon Johnson kind of great

    Actually, yes—the very heartlessness that made her a poor campaigner will make her a great ML

    OTOH, her recent record of working for the Party is pretty fucking weak.

  102. 102
    empty says:

    TJ Says:

    Check out her last diary at Daily Kos. I think she was banned shortly after.

    How exactly is that racist? Reading riverdaughter you can clearly see she is pissed, but racist? Come on!

  103. 103
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    She isn’t going to concede. She’s going to say it’s been a long and awesomely hard-fought primary and he got the most delegates and she got the most votes so they’re tied. She’s going to say that she’ll now switch gears and attempt in the next couple months to persuade pledged and superdelegates to award the nomination to the candidate that got the most popular votes, her. (She’ll cage it it terms of “making my case”.) She may indicate that any of the delegates can switch any time they want.

    She’s going to invoke the 2000 General Election at least twice. She may appear to be magnaminous to Obama but only in the context of him playing her to a tie, and not really doing it where it matters, the large blue states, and obviously not appealing to the majority of Democratic primary voters.

    She’ll probably have a rousing “On To The Convention In August!” yell near the end of her speech and her supporters will go wild. She’ll promise them she’ll do everything in her power to reward their faith in her and their hard work for her.

    There is no way she concedes before the convention with it this close. She really believes she won the popular vote because the best liars always practice the most on themselves. Having won the popular vote, she feels she has a mandate to do whatever it takes to secure the nomination.

    And on top of that, she has the most popular Democrat in recent history and the last two term Democratic President in 50 years urging her to take the fight right on into the convention. She may not go so far as to fight it out at the convention, but she’ll definitely make Obama beat her there.

  104. 104
    demimondian says:

    her recent record of working for the Party is pretty fucking weak.

    And Kennedy ’80 is a great example of working _for the party_? Reagan, ’76? Presidential nomination runs are sort of cases to themselves.

  105. 105
    cleek says:

    Just Some Fuckhead is just fucking right.

  106. 106
    ThymeZone says:

    McCain’s little honeymoon of daily Divided Dems! coverage is coming to a close.

    Now the guy who can’t remember what his positions are is going to have to work a little harder to keep it together.

    A moment of silence for the hell that Mister Magoo is about to enter. The hell of being entitled to the presidency thanks to a long history of service to his country, but still losing to the newcomer.

    Hmm, where have I seen this movie before?

  107. 107
    cleek says:

    And Kennedy ‘80 is a great example of working for the party?

    when was Kennedy ML ?

  108. 108
    ThymeZone says:

    Just Some Fuckhead is just fucking right.

    Yeah, but just look out for his pets.

  109. 109
    snoey says:

    Never mind the election, we’re going to have to run the country for the next 8 years, and Clinton as VP would be an utter disaster.

    This is management 101 stuff – divided loyalties, (slightly) hidden agendas, staff split into competing camps. You get some of that anyway with a #2 who expects to move up. A #2 team who used to be #1 and thinks that they really should still be #1 is the definition of disfunction.

  110. 110
    demimondian says:

    when was Kennedy ML ?

    Not to be crass — but when did Hillary drive off a bridge at Chappaquiddick?

  111. 111
    wasabi gasp says:

    Fate gives Hillary a golden shower. Hillary makes lemonade.

  112. 112
    TJ says:

    How exactly is that racist? Reading riverdaughter you can clearly see she is pissed, but racist? Come on!

    How can you not see the coded racist language there?

  113. 113
    zmulls says:

    Right, and who the Senators want has a lot to do with seniority. These are people that have egos larger than the states they represent, so if you really think that some of the people that have been there for decades will willingly hand Hillary the job because…well, just because – then I think you are sorely mistaken.

    If they thought she would be best for the job, then I can see them handing over the reigns of power regardless of experience, but as divisive as she has been within her own party and more importantly considering how she hasn’t really been much of a leader in the Senate (with the exception of maybe pork spending), I just don’t see it happening.

    Respectfully, I disagree. Historically, the ML position has not been one where lots of people want it, or feel they are owed it. It’s a bitch of a job, and there are usually only 2 or 3 people who have the gumption to seriously vie for it, when there’s any vying. As I said before, if Reid wants it again, I don’t see her running for it, but I sense Reid would rather someone else took over. That’s just my gut feeling.

    And I think you’re misjudging how the other Senators feel about her. Senators are going to look past behavior on the campaign trail, I think; they’ve all been there. Especially if Hilary turns into a good soldier for Obama sooner rather than later. She commands a lot of respect *within* the Senate (most of those guys are still friendly with Mitch McConnell, for heaven’s sake!), and if she wanted to take up the lead in the fight against the R’s, I suspect many Senators would be happy to see her do it.

    Also, as Majority Leader she wouldn’t have the sort of staff she’d have as President (Ickes, Penn, etc.) — it would be an entirely different dynamic.

    I think she would have more support within the Senate than is apparent — it’s not the same as having all of us vote for whom we’d like to see.

  114. 114
    John S. says:

    Not to be crass—but when did Hillary drive off a bridge at Chappaquiddick?

    True.

    Not to be crass – but she did kill Vince Foster.

    j/k

  115. 115
    cleek says:

    Not to be crass—but when did Hillary drive off a bridge at Chappaquiddick?

    ok. i give up. i just can’t find a way to tie this back to the question of whether or not Hillary would make a good ML.

  116. 116
    zmulls says:

    It’s Chappaqua, not Chappaquiddick *g*

    I thought she had a lesbian affair with Vince Foster before she killed him. In the kitchen. With a candlestick….

    At least that’s what I read in the papers.

  117. 117
    Adam says:

    Obama (to Clinton): I don’t want you as my VP, but I’ll let you head the committee to choose mine.

    Apparently Wesley Clark floated Obama-Sebelius earlier. He basically speaks for the Clintons, so that may be significant.

  118. 118
    Cain says:

    A moment of silence for the hell that Mister Magoo is about to enter. The hell of being entitled to the presidency thanks to a long history of service to his country, but still losing to the newcomer.

    Amen, brother! Which reminds me of a movie quote from the movie Tombstone which I think is appropriate

    cain

  119. 119
    Kevin K. says:

    To Sen. Obama: Why I Can’t Vote For You

    You don’t respect my candidate. You say belittling things. You don’t respect me. You say bad things about me and my friends and family.

    You don’t like the same songs that I do. You haven’t admitted that Chelsea is cuter than your two daughters will ever be. You haven’t offered Taylor Marsh the position of press secretary yet. You didn’t compliment the slacks I wore last Wednesday. You haven’t told me that I complete you.

  120. 120
    Callisto says:

    It’s ungracious for the winner to win. What a moron.

    How dare he claim the nomination on the night he clinches the nomination? He should wait at least a week and meanwhile throw a big party for Clinton and give a big speech on how much awesomer she is than him, and then concede.

    Clinton will do whatever she can to prevent Obama from securing the win himself, rather, SHE will GIVE Obama the win, at least that’s the perception she wants which I’m sure the media will happily gobble up.

    “Okay, fine, I’ll let you win. Hey look, everybody, I’m letting him win.”

  121. 121
    rollSound says:

    Hillary needs a legacy-saving bone from the Obama camp, but Obama needs to keep her away from his administration. Fortunately, there’s a way to do that.

    SC Justice Stevens would be tendering his resignation on Day 2 of an Obama administration. Making Hillary one of the Supremes gives her career an historical last chapter. Besides, it’d be fun to watch her match Scalia snarl for snarl.

  122. 122
    John S. says:

    Respectfully, I disagree.

    I see the point you’re making and I agree with some of what you’re saying, but I disagree with your conclusion.

    I have a long enough memory, so we’ll see how it all plays out. Then one of us can gloat!

  123. 123
    zmulls says:

    Clinton as VP would be an utter disaster.

    This is management 101 stuff – divided loyalties, (slightly) hidden agendas, staff split into competing camps.

    *snoey* the historical counter-example is Lincoln. He explicitly put his major rivals in very prominent roles, gave them some power, and “handled” them. Some think that was a really brilliant move by Lincoln (and he had a talent for handling people).

    The other historical tag is Kennedy-Johnson. Not so sure how well that worked out, or would have worked out. There’s a wonderful anecdote in “Master of the Senate” where LBJ visits the Senate Cloakroom after becoming VP. People were scared to death of him when he was ML, but as VP, he gets ignored pretty much. We’ll never know if Johnson would have been able to get the civil rights legislation passed for Kennedy, or whether it was only because he was President he was able to get it past the Southern voting block. But Kennedy-Johnson has a lot of parallels to (hypothetically) Obama-Clinton.

  124. 124
    Krista says:

    Obama-Sebelius

    I like that idea, as it kind of puts a sock in some of that “Obama’s a sexist!” crap.

  125. 125
    Wilfred says:

    It is absolutely amazing to see how Clinton’s sense of entitlement seems to have inflicted some of the posters here. Quick, what did John Kerry get?

    She doesn’t deserve anything and is entitled to nothing. She was holding all the aces and still lost: end of story. If President Obama feels she can do a better job than someone else in a particular position then fine, he should give it to her. Otherwise the only thing she’s entitled to is a an embroidered ‘Tough Shit’ wall hanging.

  126. 126
    demimondian says:

    i just can’t find a way to tie this back to the question of whether or not Hillary would make a good ML.

    No — but it sure explains why Teddy would never be ML, just like Barney Frank won’t ever be anything more than a member of the House.

    The point I was making is that tearing the party apart is something we forgive regularly — you and I both remember what Kennedy did to the Dems in 80, and you and I both remember that he wasn’t punished for it.

  127. 127
    Dreggas says:

    rollSound Says:

    Hillary needs a legacy-saving bone from the Obama camp, but Obama needs to keep her away from his administration. Fortunately, there’s a way to do that.

    SC Justice Stevens would be tendering his resignation on Day 2 of an Obama administration. Making Hillary one of the Supremes gives her career an historical last chapter. Besides, it’d be fun to watch her match Scalia snarl for snarl.

    NO, NO, NO, NO, NO!

    Given her sponsorship of flag-burning amendments and legistlation to censor video-games I would NOT want that woman on the court with a gavel. As it is she has no judicial experience save for being a lawyer.

  128. 128
    zmulls says:

    I have a long enough memory, so we’ll see how it all plays out. Then one of us can gloat!

    Maybe, maybe not. :-)

    *IF* she is not the VP candidate, and *IF* she doesn’t take a prominent cabinet post, and *IF* Reid wants to step down as ML….*THEN* I do believe we’ll see her in the running for ML, with or without opposition from Durbin or Dodd.

    If we get to that point, then maybe one of us can gloat.

  129. 129
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    You don’t like the same songs that I do. You haven’t admitted that Chelsea is cuter than your two daughters will ever be. You haven’t offered Taylor Marsh the position of press secretary yet. You didn’t compliment the slacks I wore last Wednesday. You haven’t told me that I complete you.

    lolz

  130. 130
    Rick Taylor says:

    Makes sense to me. The main quandry I see now is that if she’s going to support Obama fully, she has to give up talking about how she really should have won; but then if she does that she closes off her options, something she seems loathe to do. Sounds like she’ll need to be persuaded with both carrots and sticks behind the scene, so it’s clear there’s only one good option.

  131. 131

    John you have the best take on this that I have read today.

    The Democratic arty is no longer Clinton’s party. But it is not yet Obama’s party. The parameters of what the new party will look like are still in flux, which is why we see so many contradictory reports.

    The shape of the party for the next few years will be dictated by what happens in the next few days. We just have to have patience while we wait for it to work itself out.

  132. 132
    John S. says:

    If we get to that point, then maybe one of us can gloat.

    Damn that’s a lot of caveats, but I agree to your terms.

    I would have a dog in the fight at that point – Dodd – so if and when it comes down to that I’d be really curious to see how things go.

  133. 133
    The Other Steve says:

    But But! Hillary has won more votes than anyone else in primary history. That should count for something.

    Isn’t there a runner-up prize or something we can give Hillary? 2nd place? A silver medal? A certificate of achievement?

  134. 134
    JL says:

    Dreggas, Earlier I stated that I didn’t trust her judgment on the Supreme CT and you certainly highlighted some of the reasons why. Thanks

    Given her sponsorship of flag-burning amendments and legistlation to censor video-games I would NOT want that woman on the court with a gavel.

  135. 135
    mantis says:

    Obama-Sebelius

    I like that idea, as it kind of puts a sock in some of that “Obama’s a sexist!” crap.

    Nope. It will suddenly become sexist to tap a woman for the VP spot (I would predict liberal use of the word subjugation to describe the idea). The only non-sexist action would be for Obama to drop out of the race and give Clinton the nomination.

  136. 136
    zmulls says:

    Oh, I love me some Chris Dodd, and my loyalties would be torn. Emotionally, I’d love to see him as ML. But I suspect as a vote-wrangler and organizer he might not be the best choice.

    Much as I admire Dodd and like him better than Hillary, my cold, calculating political side says that Hillary would be a better ML.

    But as we say, lots of caveats before we get to even asking that question.

  137. 137
    wasabi gasp says:

    Make Hillary ambassador to Epsilon Eridani.

  138. 138
    Marc says:

    The Clinton dead-enders are out in full force on their web sites.

    Steve Soto is moving ahead supporting Obama over at the Left Coaster, and the Clinton fanatics are going full-bore at him in the comments. Many of them are absolutely and clearly republicans, by the way.

    Taylor Marsh appears to be trying to guide things back to the side of light. Good luck with that, judging from the comments.

    The comments at TalkLeft are unreal, and Jeralyn is desperately clinging to the idea that the Obama delegates will change their mind and vote for Clinton.

    Corrente has the screeching headlines, but very few comments. They’re yelling in an empty room.

    Tennessee MeMeMe Women are leaving the party and going for Hillary4ever. While they’re not threatening superdelegates to vote for the bestcandidatebecauseshessoawesome.

    The Confluence is just nuts, and they’re going to stomp their feet and burn incense at the Hillary altar by the looks of it.

    I don’t visit White Power sites, so someone else will have to fill us in on NoQuarter. Presumably the space aliens will be visiting us soon.

  139. 139
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    Sounds like she’ll need to be persuaded with both carrots and sticks behind the scene, so it’s clear there’s only one good option.

    Carrotsticks?

  140. 140
    Punchy says:

    Now the guy who can’t remember what his positions are is going to have to work a little harder to keep it together.

    Yeah, but only if the media obliges. Honestly, I would have little idea that McCain voted against the Webb GI bill, flipped on telecom immunity, etc, if I didn’t read blogs (and most people dont). I dont see this “Yawn McCane just completed biffed on the Iraqi troop levels in a speech today” in NBC Nightly News…..

    Shorter — McCane’s many, many problems can only be known if the greater media allow it. And I haven’t see ANY evidence that they will. No muckracking? No muck.

    Except for Obama. HE’S GOT A FEW SCARY NEGRO FRIENDS!, says CNN/CBS/ABC/Fox/MSNBC

  141. 141
    ThatLeftTurnInABQ says:

    Put me in the camp that thinks HRC as the VP candidate would be a disaster. One thing we’ve heard over and over during the campaign is that voters want change. They are ignoring nearly all the typical, pivotal issues—experience, race, etc.—because BHO not only represents change but is actually talking substantively about it. Having HRC on the ticket would, I think, neutralize this.

    I think the MSM has gotten a lot of their analysis wrong so far (i.e. the voters are reacting differently than the MSM would have us think), but I do think “change” is a real issue and is being reflected in the votes so far. BHO needs a running mate to reinforce that.

    I also agree with the notion that the Clintons are just too self-absorbed. I can imagine that they’d pull together for the sake of the party during the general election—but I am not sure they would, and I worry that HRC on the ticket would work more against BHO than for him. Or—at least she would work for her own interests only, and any coincident interests for BHO would just be luck.

    Pour me another shot of that, and make it a double.

    Hillary should not be the VP pick. She can do herself and everyone else more good in the Senate. Ted Kennedy should be her career role model now. With luck and a lot of hard work she can in time become as beloved a figure in the party as he is today, which is no small achievement considering how the nomination campaign in 1980 was also very divisive.

  142. 142
    The Other Steve says:

    Here, I created a Certificate of Achievement

  143. 143
    The Moar You Know says:

    Armando has been a total wanker this entire nomination process.

    Armando has been a total wanker for his entire worthless life. But I’m proud to say that I’m one of the many who sent him into an incoherent, frothing rage – a state in which he seems to spend entirely too much of his existence.

  144. 144
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    Here, I created a Certificate of Achievement

    I think it should be “Most Improved”. That was the meaningless award always given out to the biggest dumbass in the class to make him feel like he won something important too.

    Apologies in advance to any BJ commenters who have “Most Improved” certificates hanging on the wall.

  145. 145
    Kevin says:

    I don’t visit White Power sites, so someone else will have to fill us in on NoQuarter. Presumably the space aliens will be visiting us soon.

    LOL!

  146. 146
    ThatLeftTurnInABQ says:

    snoey Says:

    Never mind the election, we’re going to have to run the country for the next 8 years, and Clinton as VP would be an utter disaster.

    This is management 101 stuff – divided loyalties, (slightly) hidden agendas, staff split into competing camps. You get some of that anyway with a #2 who expects to move up. A #2 team who used to be #1 and thinks that they really should still be #1 is the definition of disfunction.

    … and bartender, please give me some of what snoey said as a chaser.

  147. 147
    John Cole says:

    The Clinton dead-enders are out in full force on their web sites.

    The crazy thing about all of this is they are throwing away all of their allegedly important progressive issues over, well, nothing. They are going to try to elect a Republican out of spite.

    I don’t even give a hoot really about progressive issues, insofar that I am indifferent once they do not intersect with my core principles of NOT FUCKING THINGS UP ANYMORE and LEAVE ME THE FUCK ALONE, but I understand you have to make deals to get things accomplished. Right now what needs to be accomplished is electing a Democrat and defeating the Republicans.

    And this is not even going into the other thing they fail to acknowledge- he won. He didn’t steal it, they didn’t hide the nominating rules from Camp Clinton until after Super Tuesday. They were on equal footing (sort of, Hillary had a huge advantage), and he won. Period. Rally around him.

  148. 148

    Howard Dean for the VP. He’a a no bullshit guy and is one of the architects of the 50-state strategy that helped the Democrats win back the Congress.

    Obama-Dean 08!

  149. 149
    demimondian says:

    Make Hillary ambassador to -Epsilon Eridani-Eta Carinae.

    Much better choice.

  150. 150
  151. 151
    Wilfred says:

    Here’s McCain making obeisance to Aipac:

    Mr. McCain argued that Mr. Obama’s calls for withdrawing troops from Iraq could endanger Israel. “He will do so regardless of the conditions in Iraq, regardless of the consequences for our national security, regardless of Israel’s security, and in disregard of the best advice of our commanders on the ground,” he said.

    Endanger Israel? This piece of shit is not going to be easy to beat – he knows what buttons to push and whose asses to kiss.

  152. 152
    ThatLeftTurnInABQ says:

    zmulls Says:

    Clinton as VP would be an utter disaster.

    This is management 101 stuff – divided loyalties, (slightly) hidden agendas, staff split into competing camps.

    snoey the historical counter-example is Lincoln. He explicitly put his major rivals in very prominent roles, gave them some power, and “handled” them. Some think that was a really brilliant move by Lincoln (and he had a talent for handling people).

    The other historical tag is Kennedy-Johnson. Not so sure how well that worked out, or would have worked out. There’s a wonderful anecdote in “Master of the Senate” where LBJ visits the Senate Cloakroom after becoming VP. People were scared to death of him when he was ML, but as VP, he gets ignored pretty much. We’ll never know if Johnson would have been able to get the civil rights legislation passed for Kennedy, or whether it was only because he was President he was able to get it past the Southern voting block. But Kennedy-Johnson has a lot of parallels to (hypothetically) Obama-Clinton.

    props for the historical references, but are we willing to wager that Obama is a poltical talent equal to Lincoln? That seems like a tall order. Also, the circumstances of the Civil War may have helped the team of rivals work better together than they would have in a less dire context.

    re: JFK-LBJ, the VP office in that era had not yet acquired the gravitas it enjoys now. Do you really feel comfortable having Hillary occupy Dick Cheney’s throne? Also, the psycho-dynamics between LBJ and the Kennedys didn’t work out very well once LBJ became President, particularly with regard to Vietnam policy.

  153. 153
    Lee says:

    This stuff about her having gotten so close to winning therefore she deserves something doesn’t really make sense to me. Political contests are pretty much zero sum situations. There is a winner and there is a loser. There’s no second place, runner up category. This isn’t a beauty contest. When Bush won in 2004, Kerry didn’t get a consolation prize for having gotten more votes than anyone ever before (except for Bush in 2004). He got to slink back home and resume his position in the Senate. Ditto all the close contests in the history of politics. We don’t give out prizes based on coming in a close second. So, um, yeah. NO to her as VP.

  154. 154
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    I got yer Certificate of Achievement

    Hahaha.. gettin’ there. I think I’d rather have seen it presented by An Inadequate Young Black Man Who Is Lucky To Be Black.

  155. 155
    The Other Steve says:

    Armando has been a total wanker for his entire worthless life. But I’m proud to say that I’m one of the many who sent him into an incoherent, frothing rage – a state in which he seems to spend entirely too much of his existence.

    Oh come on, that’s easy. I did it many times over at GOS.

    Back when Bloomberg was running for a 2nd term, Armando was making a big deal of supporting the other guy. Forgot his name, he was some party hack that was his time to run. Got totally trounced, and I told Armando that was going to happen. We gotta stop picking party hacks just because it’s their turn.

    Oh, he was pissed.

    Interesting, how his selection of Clinton is because it’s her turn. Armando is a party loyalist to a fault.

  156. 156
    b. hussein canuckistani says:

    Give her the Montgomery Burns Award for Outstanding Achievement in the Field of Excellence.

  157. 157
    wasabi gasp says:

    Make the certificate redeemable for a bag of donuts.

  158. 158
    zmulls says:

    props for the historical references, but are we willing to wager that Obama is a poltical talent equal to Lincoln? That seems like a tall order. Also, the circumstances of the Civil War may have helped the team of rivals work better together than they would have in a less dire context.

    Excellent points. As for Clinton on the Cheney throne, I would lay money that Obama will not sit back like some clueless Texas dullard and let someone else do all the hard work. Not naming any names, mind you.

    The Obama-Lincoln analogy is fraught with peril, and I’m trying to not make the mistake of projecting my hopes and dreams onto him. There’s the irresistible “state legislator with little experience out of Illinois” meme, but that’s as much coincidence as anything.

    The parallel I really see is the grounding in Constitutinal Law. One of Lincoln’s strengths, as I’ve come to believe from reading, is how very grounded in the intricacies of the Constitution he was. How he worked his way through legal thickets to justify what he needed to do, using the Constitution instead of trampling on it. He had a Constitutional justification for suspending Habeas Corpus after all (‘in time of rebellion…’). Obama’s background as a teacher of the Constitution gives me hope.

    The other quality of Obama that I’ve come to appreciate is his ability to play the long game. To not to anything hastily — see how things play out, plan for the future, be prepared, weather out short burst of thunder. I think that’s why he’s close to the winner’s circle now. All that careful planning (how each individual state ran its caucus or primary, all that groundwork and fieldwork) shows someone who thinks far ahead. That is a Lincolnesque quality.

    Also, how you treat your rivals is key. When you have vanquished someone, you can be vindictive and gloat, or you can be magnanimous and generous in not only praise (which comes cheap) but in gestures. I agree, Lincoln called his rivals into the cabinet for expediency and for the exigencies of the crisis — but it was still damn smart and showed grace. I can see Obama already making gracious comments and I’m seeing that quality in him as well.

    Nobody knows if or when we’ll see another Lincoln — we don’t have quite the crisis that forged him. But I do see glimmers of the right qualities in Obama, and I’m encouraged.

    As furious as I am — right now — at both Clintons, I am trying to look down the road, and think an appreciation of her grit and her talents and her dedication to the things I care about (health care, etc.) are where I want to put my attention now.

  159. 159
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    Carter announced.

  160. 160
    ThymeZone says:

    Not to be crass – but she did kill Vince Foster.

    Okay, but the man needed killing.

  161. 161
    Napoleon says:

    TPM is reporting a new Greenberg/Carville poll out that shows the Dems could pick up 45 house seats this fall.

  162. 162
    ThatLeftTurnInABQ says:

    The parallel I really see is the grounding in Constitutinal Law. One of Lincoln’s strengths, as I’ve come to believe from reading, is how very grounded in the intricacies of the Constitution he was. How he worked his way through legal thickets to justify what he needed to do, using the Constitution instead of trampling on it. He had a Constitutional justification for suspending Habeas Corpus after all (‘in time of rebellion…’). Obama’s background as a teacher of the Constitution gives me hope.

    The other quality of Obama that I’ve come to appreciate is his ability to play the long game. To not to anything hastily—see how things play out, plan for the future, be prepared, weather out short burst of thunder. I think that’s why he’s close to the winner’s circle now. All that careful planning (how each individual state ran its caucus or primary, all that groundwork and fieldwork) shows someone who thinks far ahead. That is a Lincolnesque quality.

    Also, how you treat your rivals is key. When you have vanquished someone, you can be vindictive and gloat, or you can be magnanimous and generous in not only praise (which comes cheap) but in gestures. I agree, Lincoln called his rivals into the cabinet for expediency and for the exigencies of the crisis—but it was still damn smart and showed grace. I can see Obama already making gracious comments and I’m seeing that quality in him as well.

    Very good points, and ones that I’ll console myself with if necessary.

    At this point I’m concerned that message discipline has not been either Hillary or Bill’s strength in the contest so far, and having a loose cannon on board with it being in their career self-interest for the ticket to lose in November it a very big risk.

    Also, some of the less endearing traits of the HRC campaign (not just Hillary but really her staff more generally) have been far too close in resemblence to what we’ve had in the WH for the last 7 years for my comfort (short term thinking, assuming favorable outcomes and not planning for the possibility of failure, loyalty valued over competance, reality denial and personality cultism, etc.). I want a VP who can in extremis be the best possible President, not just someone who would be suited for the understudy role but a problem if promoted, if you know what I mean (Dallas, Memphis, LA).

  163. 163

    The ML is not happening. You have to have proven your ability to work with people and bulldoze only when necessary. Hillary does not have the procedural experience nor the people skills nor long term thinking. One further problem, this position is involved in elctoral politics and Hillary’s record there is clear.

    I don’t trust Hillary on the SC with my rights on the line. The only possible saving grace is that this position is not dependent on votes and she might grow some kind of backbone. Since she finds the 2nd Amendment to be a disposable right, you might want to consider which other ones she views in a similar light. Her legal experience to be in such a position is more than questionable so you fall back on her philosophical approach – like that one?

  164. 164

    VP is ludicrous, that kind of baggage is an anchor of huge dimensions. Obama already has some associations difficulties and you propose to hang the Clintons and all their stuff around his neck as well?

  165. 165
    gypsy howell says:

    The hell of being entitled to the presidency thanks to a long history of service to lifetime of sucking on the teat of his country, but still losing to the newcomer.

    Fixd.

  166. 166
    Wilfred says:

    Clinton as VP? Well sure, look at what happened with Bobby Kennedy. Thus her:

    WASHINGTON – Hillary Rodham Clinton has told congressional colleagues she would be open to becoming Barack Obama’s vice presidential nominee, saying she would consider it if it would help Democrats win the White House.

    For the children.

  167. 167
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    For the children.

    I’m becoming verklempt.

  168. 168
    Nellcote says:

    Make Hillery ambassador-ess to Zimbabwe. If Hillery really wants to be vp she should work her ass off (and keep Bill muzzled) for the next two months to prove she’s worthy. But in reality I don’t think Bill gets through the vp vetting process.

  169. 169
    eastriver says:

    Tonight IS about HRC. The next few months will be about Obama. (Obama isn’t doing anything tonight. She is. Do the math.)

  170. 170
    Brachiator says:

    zmulls Says:

    I think Obama is taking the “deep breath, give her some space” approach. He’s probably right.

    I’m getting whiplash from all the conflicting accounts, and I’ve decided to see what happens tonight. Once the polls close on Montana and South Dakota, and there are at least a few more superdelegate announcements, and Obama makes his speech…well, we won’t be in primary season anymore, well be in post-primary.

    The problem is that Clinton is showing every intention of dragging this thing out through the convention. I was listening to the audio feed of “The View,” and heard Whoopi Goldberg read the AP story that Clinton was going to concede. After a commercial break, Goldberg or Barbara Walters announced that the Clinton campaign had been watching and called to clarify that Clinton absolutely was not conceding. The reaction was sad on a number of levels.

    The audience went wild with spontaneous applause. The ladies on the panel, excepting Walters, fell in line with the current conventional wisdom that Clinton should stay in the race because she is a fighter, the nomination was stolen from her because of sexism, she absolutely deserves to be the first woman president. Whoopi Goldberg then make the startling statement that she would be happy to see Clinton run in 2012, and clarified that yes this would mean that Obama would have lost to McCain.

    Now, all you folks who are dreaming for a renewed unity ticket have to recognize that for some Clinton supporters, it is more important that Hillary become the first woman president than that the Democrats win in November.

    But if I were Hilary Clinton, the VP post is the last place I’d want to be. She doesn’t want to be muzzled. She deserves—really deserves—a prominent and visible place. Majority Leader of the Senate, or Obama giving her the reins of the healthcare project.

    This is just it. Clinton doesn’t deserve a damn thing. Like any other politician, she can try to earn a position of power and respect. But the idea that she should be given a prize just because of her effort is maddening. Also, the people who want to elevate her to Senate majority leader forget that she is a junior senator, and doesn’t get bonus points for being a former First Lady.

    zmulls Says:

    Clinton as VP would be an utter disaster.

    This is management 101 stuff – divided loyalties, (slightly) hidden agendas, staff split into competing camps.

    snoey the historical counter-example is Lincoln. He explicitly put his major rivals in very prominent roles, gave them some power, and “handled” them. Some think that was a really brilliant move by Lincoln (and he had a talent for handling people).

    Unlike some of the members of Lincoln’s cabinet (e.g., William Seward or Salmon Chase), Hillary has not clearly demonstrated much in the way of actual accomplishment, instead trying to muddy the waters by claiming her husband’s career as half of her own, so there are a number of big risks in Obama selecting Clinton as his VP choice. He would also not only have to “handle” Hillary, but he would also have to keep Bill reasonably happy.

    But there appears to be a clamor among the Democratic Party leadership to see Hillary at least offered the VP role, so it might be the better part of valor for Obama to give in here. Hillary could either show that she could actually do the job, or be shuffled off to the side.

    I would like to see Hillary offered the ambassadorship to Great Britain. This would be high profile, would reinforce our standing with a strong ally, and get both Bill and Hillary out of the domestic scene.

  171. 171
    Realist says:

    Hillary would never accept the VP. Obama is sinking like a stone and will never be able to increase his base outside of the uberlibs who dominated the caucuses and doomed the Democrats. In November, when Obama is crying in front of the TV, he’ll be like Sheriff Bart, asking “Where all the White Women at?” It’s sad that these nutjobs knecapped Clinton so early. If they hadn’t, she could have spent the last two months going after McCain and we might have been able to save ourselves. As it is I have to suffer through four years of McCain (if he doesn’t have a heart attack before then).

  172. 172
    mantis says:

    Realist = Republican concern troll

  173. 173
    A.Political says:

    where’s pluk?!?! Saw him posting on No Quarter yesterday but he’s been scarce.

  174. 174
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    where’s pluk? Saw him posting on No Quarter yesterday but he’s been scarce.

    He’s prolly already bunked with the tracksuit on and the new haircut.

    /ht jake

  175. 175
    ThatLeftTurnInABQ says:

    I would like to see Hillary offered the ambassadorship to Great Britain.

    What, are you Irish or something? What have the English ever done to you, that they would deserve that?

    Remember, the Clintons need a fresh infusion of drama the way that vampires need blood.

  176. 176
    Sherrell says:

    What is most annoying about this concession dance is that it denies Obama the spotlight on a night when he will make American history.

  177. 177
    SamFromUtah says:

    Realist = Republican concern troll

    In general, anyone with a name like “Realist”, “The Truth”, “Wisdom”, “Smart Guy” = Republican concern troll.

  178. 178
    passerby says:

    I would like to see Hillary offered the ambassadorship to Great Britain. This would be high profile, would reinforce our standing with a strong ally, and get both Bill and Hillary out of the domestic scene.

    It would be nice to see them the hell out of here but, realize, ambassadorships are a hot commodity because they come with diplomatic immunity which is conferred for life(?).

    I hesitate to give this to Hillary as I believe she serves her moneyed friends around the globe and has never represented any American’s interests outside that of her corporatist buddies.

    T

  179. 179
    Rome Again says:

    In general, anyone with a name like “Realist”, “The Truth”, “Wisdom”, “Smart Guy” = Republican concern troll.

    MyIQ2xU?

    :)

    Don’t need to answer that!

  180. 180
    SamFromUtah says:

    Don’t need to answer that!

    Hee hee – I was just thinking I didn’t need to say it. :)

  181. 181
    Jess says:

    it’s time for Obama to take command and put the Clintons in their correct place. He doesn’t need to do it aggressively or insultingly he just needs to make it clear to everybody involved that he is now the standard bearer of the Democratic Party and not defer to anyone. If he doesn’t do this, he’ll be a lob for the Clintons, dependent on not offending them in any way.

    I’m no politician but I’ve lived by my wits in a third world country for 12 years and I can read the Clintons with my eyes closed. He has to bury them or they will bury him. All of this sulking by die-hard Clintonites is a bluff that Obama has to call, not negotiate.

    Okay, you convinced me. Excellent points.

  182. 182
    Joe Max says:

    The wingnut exploding head dream team:

    Hillary Clinton for Sec. of HHS.

    John Edwards for Attorney General.

    Wesley Clark for Sec. of State.

    Jim Webb for Sec. of Defense.

    Bill Clinton for US Ambassador to the UN.

  183. 183
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    I would like to see Hillary offered the ambassadorship to Great Britain

    Don’t ship her off yet. We’re going to need her for the general. Obama is a bit of a rockstar and come September, the crazies are going to start crawling out of the woodwork claiming to have given birth to his lovechild or that Obama snorted cocaine off their pretty white ass while getting blown by their sister.

    We’re going to need someone in charge of these sorts of.. let’s call ’em “bimbo eruptions”. Hillary Clinton has over 35 years of experience handling these sordid types of things. I think she’d be perfect for the job.

  184. 184
    Brachiator says:

    ThatLeftTurnInABQ Says:

    I would like to see Hillary offered the ambassadorship to Great Britain.

    What, are you Irish or something? What have the English ever done to you, that they would deserve that?

    Damn! You found me out. I do have great fondness for Ireland and Irish history.

    Realist Says:

    Hillary would never accept the VP.

    Oops. This just in from concern troll central:

    By REUTERS
    Filed at 4:30 p.m. ET

    Hillary Clinton said on Tuesday she’s open to the possibility of being Barack Obama’s vice presidential running mate, a Democratic party aide said.

    Clinton, who appears on the verge of losing the Democratic presidential nomination to Obama, made the comment in a conference call with fellow members of New York’s congressional delegation, the aide said.

    The party aide quoted Clinton as saying, when asked about being Obama’s running mate: “I am open to it.”

    Although I don’t think she would make a particularly effective VP, unless Senator Clinton is going to settle into being a junior senator, it looks as though she may have to consider any olive branch proffered by Obama.

  185. 185
    Rome Again says:

    It seems clear to me that Team Clinton is having message control issues this AM.

    This is what happens when you set your staff loose without a future paycheck and directions to sit and wait for further instructions BEFORE you admit the campaign might be finished.

  186. 186
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    Although I don’t think she would make a particularly effective VP

    How would ya know if a VP was being effective?

  187. 187
    Rome Again says:

    How would ya know if a VP was being effective?

    A good start would be that they don’t try to kill somebody.

  188. 188
    Jess says:

    Realist = Republican concern troll

    In general, anyone with a name like “Realist”, “The Truth”, “Wisdom”, “Smart Guy” = Republican concern troll.

    Pretty obviously a spoof, I was thinking. C’mon–who gives themselves the handle “Realist” and then launches into an alternative-universe hallucination in all seriousness?

  189. 189

    For Barack Obama, having BILLARY Clinton as Vice President will be like having a LIVE DEADLY SNAKE under one’s bed covers!

  190. 190

    Give her the Montgomery Burns Award for Outstanding Achievement in the Field of Excellence.

    LOL!!!

    Burns introduces Smokin’ Joe Frazier…

    [reading off a teleprompter] Webster’s dictionary defines excellence
    as “the state or condition of being excellent.” And now, the winner
    of the First Annual Montgomery Burns Award for Outstanding
    Achievement in the Field of Excellence…Sen. Hillary Clinton!!!

  191. 191
    curtadams says:

    Dodd is the best choice for ML. He almost got the job in the 90’s, so you know he has the skills and desire, and he did a *bang-up* job blocking telco immunity, where he kept it out of the FISA bill even though nose-counting beforehand indicated he had chance. We *know* that he has excellent in-caucus political skills, gumption, and great judgement – this has all been proven already.

    Hillary does have a rep for working with people and probably has the in-caucus skills, but we don’t know for sure. She does *not* have the gumption or judgement – she’s neither proposed nor passed any substantial legislation, and she’s led no great fights, successful or otherwise.

    Hillary could lead the fight to get universal healthcare, and I’d be happy with that, since her plan (while flawed) is better than Obama’s. That’s probably the best way for her to leave a legacy.

  192. 192
    grumpy realist says:

    I wouldn’t place Hillary anywhere. For one big stinkin’ reason.

    She’s incompetent.

    Watching this train wreck of a campaign where she managed to squander away all of the very large advantages she had at the beginning had made me wonder: what in the heck is anyone smoking who thinks that Hillary should be in charge of ANYTHING?!

    Have her go back to NYC and be a good junior senator for some more years. Or have her run for governor and actually DO something. But at the moment, the only thing I can think of Hillary producing in any situation is more chaos, arrogant ranting, inability to get people to work together, and nothing getting accomplished. At this point in history, the US can’t afford that. We need to have someone who is GOOD at getting people to “take their medicine”, to compromise, to deal with the nasty fiscal hangover we’ll have from the Bush years, the bleeding wound that is Iraq, the increasing fiscal mountain that is going to fall on us with Medicare (Soc. Sec. can be fixed IMO with a few tweaks), and the total economic trash heap we’re going to end up with unless we start having a sensible energy policy.

  193. 193
    priscianus jr says:

    Pushing Hillary supporters to hop on the Obama bandwagon tomorrow is like hitting on a widow at her husband’s wake.

    Only in part. You feel sympathy for a widow, but a lot of these people are dissing Obama, and that just makes me mad. I’ll follow your advice and lay off, but one guy on Huffpost just rubbed me the wrong way. He wrote something like this:
    I’m a lifelong Dem. Congratulations Democrats, you’ve done it again. You’ve just nominated another loser. But at least it’s HISTORIC.
    I pointed out the obvious, that HE was the loser, and I told him I hoped he’d soon figure out what just happened. So okay, I’ll lay off ’em for a while, but my poiny is, your analogy is not entirely accurate.

  194. 194

    grumpy realist Says:

    I wouldn’t place Hillary anywhere. For one big stinkin’ reason.

    She’s incompetent.

    Watching this train wreck of a campaign where she managed to squander away all of the very large advantages she had at the beginning had made me wonder: what in the heck is anyone smoking who thinks that Hillary should be in charge of ANYTHING?!

    Abso-tively posi-lutely!

    (I am sooo glad she blew it!)

    “I was against being for Clinton before I was for being against her.” ~ LanceThruster

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  1. […] John Cole gets it, I think: There are several things at play here. First, the reality that Clinton is not going to win the nomination. Second, the reality that this signals the end of Clinton dominance of the Democratic party (though anyone who thinks they are now irrelevant is both wrong and stupid). Third, the notion that the Clintons do not want to cede control. Fourth, the fact that the only real political power the Clinton family has left (Bill remains a popular ex-President, Hillary is a junior senator from New York) is the support of their voting bloc, who have remained quite loyal to them. Finally, the desire to do as well as they can in the elections today to shore up their last bargaining chip. … […]

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