We WUZ ROBBED!

The most mentally and physically exhausting couple in American politics double down:

Former President Bill Clinton said that Democrats were more likely to lose in November if Hillary Clinton is not the nominee, and suggested some were trying to “push and pressure and bully” superdelegates to make up their minds prematurely.

Bill Clinton did not explain who he was accusing of “covering up” Sen. Clinton’s chances.

“I can’t believe it. It is just frantic the way they are trying to push and pressure and bully all these superdelegates to come out,” Clinton said at a South Dakota campaign stop Sunday, in remarks first reported by ABC News.

Clinton also suggested some were trying to “cover up” Sen. Clinton’s chances of winning in key states that Democrats will have to win in the general election.

” ‘Oh, this is so terrible: The people they want her. Oh, this is so terrible: She is winning the general election, and he is not. Oh my goodness, we have to cover this up.’ “

I am worn down, beaten, broken, and drowning in their never-ending stream of bullshit, so I just don’t have anything to add, as this nonsense speaks for itself. They are, quite simply, trying to poison the well. Feel free to add your own commentary in the comments.

I will, however, point out that for those of you who watched Recount last night, and are wondering why so many normally reasonable Republicans fought so hard and were so bitter and were so ready to assume that the Gore campaign was going to somehow steal the election and manufacture votes in their selected county hand recounts, all I have to say is- this. This is why. Almost nine years of being on the receiving end of Clintonian bullshit is enough to drive anyone insane. They have quite clearly driven me to madness again in just a few months.

That doesn’t, of course, excuse the right-wing bullshit the Clinton’s endured, but it does go a long way to explain why normal Republicans would be driven to exasperation. I can’t imagine why anyone in their right mind would want to deal with this irritating duo, who truly live in their own reality, again.

*** Update ***

Leave it to Lanny Davis to come up with the dumbest plan for the Michigan delegates. Seriously, this sort of crap is what the Clinton bloggers are FIGHTING to return to? This plan is such a non-starter it should have been called a modest proposal.






141 replies
  1. 1
    redterror says:

    “The time has come. The time is now. Just go. Go. GO! I don’t care how.” With apologies to Dr. Seuss.

  2. 2
    cleek says:

    Fuck You, Bill Clinton.

    the country has had just about enough of your cynical disregard for our intelligence. now be a good Democrat, end this civil war, and the work for the nominee. or, at the very least STFU.

  3. 3
    KRK says:

    She is winning the general election, and he is not. Oh my goodness, we have to cover this up

    Even if it were true that Clinton polls better than Obama against McCain, and you have to carefully select your polls in order to conclude this, it’s May. Five months before the election.

    In May of 1992, it was Ross Perot who was “winning” the general election, with Bill Clinton running third after GHWB. Should they have just called the race at that point?

  4. 4
    gypsy howell says:

    Sorry,John, I have to call bullshit. Nothing, nothing nothing will ever excuse what the Republicans did to steal the election in 2000. And nothing will ever excuse the horrible consequences of their grab for power. You might not like the Clintons, but they didn’t unleash the last 8 years on us – Bush and the Republicans did.

  5. 5
    Jorge says:

    8 more days. In eight days Obama will have the nomination. Hillary will not get to be VP. She won’t be majority leader in the Senate.

    8 more days of their crap and then all they will be is an ex-President and a junior Senator from New York.

    8
    more
    days

  6. 6
    Barbara says:

    I understood that all parties have been pushing and pressuring super delegates for some time now. There seem to be about two dozen polls that come out daily and are trumpeted on every political blog I know of, and then there are projected electoral maps that are keyed off those maps, etc. That hardly sounds like a cover up.

    Bill Clinton doesn’t have a crystal ball. He knows polls are basically worthless, especially when they are within the margin of error.

    This is a kind of desperation that really makes me wonder what promises have been made between the two of them, and between them and others.

  7. 7
    John Cole says:

    Sorry,John, I have to call bullshit. Nothing, nothing nothing will ever excuse what the Republicans did to steal the election in 2000. And nothing will ever excuse the horrible consequences of their grab for power. You might not like the Clintons, but they didn’t unleash the last 8 years on us – Bush and the Republicans did.

    You didn’t read a damned thing I wrote, did you?

  8. 8
    demkat620 says:

    8 more days. In eight days Obama will have the nomination. Hillary will not get to be VP. She won’t be majority leader in the Senate.

    8 more days of their crap and then all they will be is an ex-President and a junior Senator from New York.

    8
    more
    days

    My dear, dear naive Jorge. I so wish that were true. This is going to the convention.

  9. 9
    DaveInOz says:

    I can’t take much more of this. Neither, obviously, can they in Montana

  10. 10
    daddy4mak says:

    i remember reading how Clinton really didn’t campaign for Kerry in 2004 … .after he was done with his heart surgery, he spoke a few times. But the speeches were more about him than Kerry.

    If he cared about America or Democratic ideals, he would put his heart into campaigning in a battle ground state like Ohio.

    But as we can see plainly. He considers power to be more like a plaything than the MOST serious job in the world.

  11. 11
    Jake says:

    “I can’t believe it. It is just frantic the way they are trying to push and pressure and bully all these superdelegates to come out,” Clinton said at a South Dakota campaign stop Sunday, in remarks first reported by ABC News.

    You have to hand it to him though, don’t you? The Clintons are masters of this. That’s the tragedy here. That they’re so good at being destructive.

    Just look at the quotes in this post. He’s basically just making things up, and referring to her enemies as “they”. That’s pretty clever, isn’t it? It allows supporters to decide who “they” are. Of course some will pick Obama, but hey, it’s not the Clintons’ fault, nudge-nudge, wink-wink.

    Whatever their legacy was, it is surely destroyed. Calculating doesn’t even come close to describing this. It is craven.

  12. 12
    nightjar says:

    normal Republicans

    Aren’t they an extinct species, or at least living in the witness protection program.

    Chuck Todd predicted this months ago about how the trademark style of Clintonian Politics is to needle their opponents into an aggravated state where they become prone to lash out and make gaffes. To a large degree, I think the Obama camp figured this out and hasn’t been suckered very often.

  13. 13
    Fledermaus says:

    At this point HRC is the poster child for Hunter S Thompson’s description of a presidential canidate in ‘Fear and Loathing on the campaign trail 1972’

    I can’t remember the exact quote but the gist was it turns people into Gollum – my precious!

  14. 14
    mbuchel says:

    It’s really pretty amazing when you think of it. The one-time leaders of the Democratic Party are now embarking on mission to delegitimize the nominee of the Democratic Party. If we can’t have the nomination – no one can.
    Their game should be so obvious to Democrats (and most importantly right now, Superdelegates). But no. We are going to commit group suicide instead of rallying around the brightest light the party has had in 40 years.
    Here’s the summer/fall playbook (and feel free to jump in and tell me where I’m wrong):
    1. The Rules Committee on May 31 votes to strip half the delegates from FL and MI and gives the uncommitted MI delegates to Obama.
    2. The Clintons refuse to accept the ruling and fight on to the convention, all the while stating that the nomination isn’t over.
    3. Obama continues to fight a two front war and the idiots at Talk Left keep complaining that Obama won’t step aside and unite the party by giving her the nomination.
    4. Her poll numbers will look great against McCain because Obama won’t attack her since he actually wants to unify the party, further motivating her supporters and idiot pundits everywhere to argue she is the stronger candidate after all.
    5. He exits a bloody convention as the nominee and is deemed irreparably damaged by the punditocracy.
    6. The Clintons will spend the fall making statements that are designed to undermine his candidacy but contain just enough wiggle room to allow them to use euphemisms like “I was only making a historical statement.”
    7. Obama loses a narrow election due to McCain’s surprising strength among older white women who cite sexism by Obama vs. Hillary in exit polls.
    8. The sons of said older white women continue to get killed in Iraq and now Iran too. Their daughters lose their reproductive rights.
    I will now go light myself on fire. Please take me off of life support in November unless I’m wrong about #7.

  15. 15
    slag says:

    The Superdelegates are letting the Clintons do it. Bill-Hillary are just working a screwed up system. Kind of like Bush-Cheney are just working Washington.

  16. 16
    Conservatively Liberal says:

    Interesting that we don’t hear the Obama camp playing the victim card like Billary has been. Obama and his crew just keep their noses to the grinding wheel and keep producing results. If they lose, they move on to the next contest. They don’t make distinctions about which state counts and which does not.

    Note: For the FL! & MI! whiners out there, Obama,like Hillary, is arguing HOW they are counted in light of their rules violations. That is a joint decision, not one to solely be made by either candidate. So stuff a sock in it if you want to complain about that.

    For some reason, Billary believes that they have to have an explanation why Hillary has won or lost a contest, and those arguments are based on their ‘facts’. Their spin is that if Billary wins, people see her for the great politician she is, and if Billary loses then some scapegoat is hauled out and sacrificed to the political gods (read: their supporters and delegates).

    With Obama, we see confidence and humility in action. Someone who aspires to the highest office in the nation and is willing to work hard to earn it. With Billary, we get whining, excuses, finger pointing and never taking responsibility for their gross incompetence throughout this campaign.

    Who do you think is going to be a better leader? Who is going to give you the mostly unvarnished truth, and who is more likely to lie straight to our faces to cover their incompetence or feed their egos?

    It is not even a close contest as to who is the better candidate. Obama is a hundred times ‘more presidential’ (read: competent) than Billary will ever be.

    Ever.

  17. 17
    cay says:

    Jorge: It was supposed to be over February 5th, REMEMBER?

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=hOK4bQ1q-wE

  18. 18

    why normal Republicans would be driven to exasperation

    I don’t remember ‘normal’ Republicans being driven crazy, I seem to remember them seeing politics in operation. The problem with saying Clintons drove is that the Republicans were right in there pitching the same kind of crap.

    One of the problems the Clintons have in this Primary is that their strategies and thinking is built around enemies rather than political opponents. You don’t build that around non-existent enemies, it doesn’t work. That poses a problem now, doesn’t it? (D) v. (D)

  19. 19
    forked tongue says:

    They have quite clearly driven me to madness again in just a few months.

    Yup.

  20. 20
    Fulcanelli says:

    Where the Clintons and especially their mouthpiece Wolfson are concerned, for me it’s become a watershed. I’ve had to shut down my frontal lobes and just ignore anything from their direction, lest my brain just vapor locks like an old GM carburator.

    To validate and register in my head their (and their blogging supporters especially) views requires a complete disconnect from the thinking and logic I use and live with from day to day in my life. It’s not just like I disagree and get pissed off, but I can see their point, it’s like watching and listening to animals in a research lab that have been bred in captivity and don’t know anything else. My head aches when I hear it…

    These two are so thoroughly and completely enmeshed in the phony political mindset, like Iowa Senator Harkin has said recently about McCain’s total frame of reference being military and nothing else (and that’s NOT a good thing), Bill and Hillary are so used to having the media and their syncophants hang on every word, then swallow it whole and not vigorously challenge the bullshit and call them on it in no uncertain terms FACE to FACE like our freinds, family and co-workers would, they’ve forgotten what it’s like to be like an average human being where you’ve got to be able to defend and validate your views and opinions and garner respect, or be branded a liar, an asshole or worse.
    I could NEVER get away with in MY life tellng the kind of lies and horseshit they spread around daily with all this gravitas and all… I’d have never been able to hold a decent job for one thing, never mind a good marriage like I have.

    They seem to have been in a cryogenic state for the last eight years, and have been revived, thinking the old way is gonna work. Well not after Bush/Cheney it ain’t.

    /rant

  21. 21
    Dennis - SGMM says:

    It couldn’t have been her campaign, resembling as it did a run for Prom Queen. It couldn’t have been her “I was misled by George W. Bush,” explanation for her vote on AUMF. Nope. It couldn’t have been her gotcha’ politics. Nor could it have been her shameless pandering. It was the faceless and nameless “them” and the evil “they.” The Clintons are just surrounded by enemies. And now I know why.

  22. 22
    Soylent Green says:

    i remember reading how Clinton really didn’t campaign for Kerry in 2004 … But the speeches were more about him than Kerry.

    We are talking about the former president and first lady here. Eight years of serving in that capacity has a way of elevating one’s sense of self-importance. I think Bill is genuinely surprised that their former status hasn’t prompted everyone to kneel at Her Majesty’s feet and kiss her ring.

    If they keep up bleating that Obama is unelectable beyond the end of the primary, that bullshit could become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

  23. 23
    Splitting Image says:

    “I will now go light myself on fire. Please take me off of life support in November unless I’m wrong about #7.”

    Yeah, you’re wrong.

    What the Clintons are doing would have worked against Reagan. It probably would have worked against either of the Bushes and it might even have worked against Dole.

    But it won’t work against McCain. Obama couldn’t lose to him if Obama were campaigning on McCain’s behalf. He is the worst candidate the Republicans have nominated since John McCain was born – and that was a LONG time ago.

    So, yeah, You’re wrong about #7. Thank God.

  24. 24
    Chris Johnson says:

    Sometimes the conventional wisdom is crazy. In the dotcom days I thought it was bullshit, and then, splat. Trumping up war with Iraq, I didn’t trust ’em, and sure enough, it was crap.

    The feeling I’m getting now is that this conventional wisdom, that it’s really really close and Hillary might win and OMG Obama is going to lose to McCain- is crap.

    This is smoke. The Clinton organization is fucked. Do you expect them, THEM, to say so? Do you expect the Obama people, who make a point of being as decent as possible, to say so?

    You’re being played, this isn’t really close at all, and McCain looks pretty fucked as well, what with the clinging to Bush and all.

    So many players, so many agendas, so much spin- but the truth is, Obama’s people outworked everybody else, and both Hillary and McCain are specializing in trainwrecks, often produced by their desperate attempts to ingratiate.

  25. 25
    Conservatively Liberal says:

    News from the st00p1d:

    A Freeper suggested someone Photoshop a turbine on Obama’s head, and place the image side-by-side with a young McCain image of him in his uniform after returning from Vietnam, and the tag line “The Choice Is Clear“.

    A diarist at DaliyKos delivers.

  26. 26
    Soylent Green says:

    Even if it were true that Clinton polls better than Obama against McCain,

    Largely unreliable this far out, but if true, still shouldn’t cost us the election. If the Dems unite, and let’s say the polls show Obama and McCain to be tied, Democratic turnout alone will win it.

  27. 27

    Jeebus, CL, here I thought you’d made an unbelievably soop1d typo…and then it hit me [splat] that you really might have meant what you typed. So I followed the link, and sure enuf — that’s what you meant.

    News of teh Stoop1d, indeed.

  28. 28
    Ninerdave says:

    The Superdelegates are letting the Clintons do it. Bill-Hillary are just working a screwed up system. Kind of like Bush-Cheney are just working Washington.

    Bullshit, while I agree the remaining supers are bunch of wussies, they are not writing Bill’s speeches.

  29. 29
    John Cole says:

    A Freeper suggested someone Photoshop a turbine on Obama’s head

    Does it run on gas or JP8 or diesel?

  30. 30
    ed says:

    Stained blue dress, my ass. Now the whole damn country is on the receiving end of Bukakke Bill.

  31. 31
    handy says:

    This is all really the fault of the Supers. They could end this thing. Now.

    And I suspect a major “ism” will be at play in the general: “ageism.” Already McCain just looks…old. Like’s ALREADY been in the White House for 4 years.

    And that temper. We’ve already seen the guy crack, and it’s May. How’s this dude gonna be able to keep that thing in check so he doesn’t come off like the absolute embarrassment that he is?

  32. 32
    Incertus says:

    The logical question, it seems to me, is to ask Bill how he felt about the mass of superdelegates who endorsed his wife before the first voter had a chance to make him or herself known. Seems to me that the ones who endorsed early were trying to have more of an effect on the outcome than the ones who have held out till now, and that the Clinton campaign was more aggressive about going after them early in order to lend potency to her inevitability campaign.

  33. 33
    gypsy howell says:

    You didn’t read a damned thing I wrote, did you?

    This was the part I read:

    I will, however, point out that for those of you who watched Recount last night, and are wondering why so many normally reasonable Republicans fought so hard and were so bitter and were so ready to assume that the Gore campaign was going to somehow steal the election and manufacture votes in their selected county hand recounts, all I have to say is- this. This is why. Almost nine years of being on the receiving end of Clintonian bullshit is enough to drive anyone insane. They have quite clearly driven me to madness again in just a few months.

    ‘Clintonian Bullshit’ still doesn’t excuse what Republicans unleashed on the rest of us. And it pales in comparison to the Bush bullshit that was flying around, even at the time.

  34. 34
    Conservatively Liberal says:

    Jeebus, CL, here I thought you’d made an unbelievably soop1d typo…and then it hit me [splat] that you really might have meant what you typed. So I followed the link, and sure enuf—that’s what you meant.

    That’s what my first thought was when I saw the diary in the rec list at Kos. This idiot doesn’t know how to spell! Then I realized ‘Freepology‘ was in the title, so I knew it had to be good (and st00p1d).

    I was not disappointed. I see you weren’t either…lol!

  35. 35
    Mary says:

    John, it’s a GE LM2500 gas turbine. It is also my new wallpaper.

  36. 36
    Mary says:

    No, strike that: the green version is what’s going on my desktop.

  37. 37
    SamFromUtah says:

    A diarist at DaliyKos delivers.

    LOL! Obama with a turbine on his head is pretty menacing, especially with that easygoing smile.

  38. 38
    nom de guerre says:

    The general election argument is total crap. She can talk about how she is the most electable person in the universe, but it doesn’t mean it’s true. I can say I am the most electable person if I want. Since I have no chance in hell to win the primary, no one will ever know if it’s true or not.

    The reality is that she was the most unelectable of all the primary candidates. The Clintons are one most corrupt political families. There are problems with the Clinton library, her padded resume and a host of other problems. Once the media turns on her and delves through all the Clinton garbage, her poll numbers would collapse. Also this is a change election, and Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton is not change.

  39. 39

    I want the turbofan version, myself. Then I can be a Turbobamafanboi if I use it as my wallpaper, right?

  40. 40
    Wilfred says:

    The Clinton organization is fucked.

    That’s it. Clinton always was 10 pounds of shit in a 5 pound bag but somehow people on the left deceived themselves into thinking he was one of us instead of the FREE TRADE corporatist he and his shithead of a loser wife actually were.

    Fuck the both of them six ways to hell. He knows his days are over – he’s looking at sharing the stage with Bush when someone dies – a fitting end for the whining sack of shit.

  41. 41
    The Moar You Know says:

    CL: that was awesome. It’s good to see there’s still a few glimmers of awesomeness at the GOS.

    Sadly, it’s an exception to the rule nowadays; that place turned into the poster child for the tyranny of the lowest common denominator.

  42. 42
    John Cole says:

    That’s it. Clinton always was 10 pounds of shit in a 5 pound bag but somehow people on the left deceived themselves into thinking he was one of us instead of the FREE TRADE corporatist he and his shithead of a loser wife actually were.

    It is because of who his enemies were. Many on the left found it very easy to defend him when it was Rush Limbaugh and Jesse Helms bashing him.

    It appears that many of them are still sutck in the mode where defending Clintons, even when they act indefensibly, is what it is to be a Democrat.

    At least that is how it looks to someone who was recently on the outside looking in.

  43. 43
    The Moar You Know says:

    He knows his days are over – he’s looking at sharing the stage with Bush when someone dies

    Being one of the honorary pallbearers at Ted Kennedy’s funeral is not going to be nearly so exciting as the possibility of becoming the brain trust behind Lurleen Wallace Part II. There’s the reason they’re both fighting so hard.

  44. 44
    Helena Montana says:

    Bill Clinton didn’t used to be so bat-shit crazy. Or at least he did a better job of covering it up. I can’t believe I followed some clown across Key Bridge one morning, tearing down “Who killed Vince Foster” posters as quickly as he put them up. I can’t believe I made myself late to work that day for those assclowns. Kicking myself, kicking myself, kicking myself…

  45. 45
    sunny says:

    Here is a comment I came across today and I think it expresses the whole situation very nicely: (sorry no link, it was quoted by someone @ FDL)

    This is what I read in various places like Talk Left.

    It is sexist to be winning against Hillary Clinton by playing by the rules that everyone agreed to in advance. And if you criticize her, you have engaged in the politics of personal destruction, no matter what she says, no matter how tone deaf. And if the black guy running against her addresses any of the issues of race that are used to argue against his electability, he is playing the race card. And Hillary gets all the votes in the primary election where she was the only one on the ballot. And it is Obama’s fault that she misspoke because, well, the fact that he is ahead in the delegate count – far ahead considering how many are still in play – makes her tired. And anyway, Obama had no right to cut in line, Hillary had a natural RIGHT to be president because she is a woman and it is TIME, and anything that gets in the way of this is a personal assault on me, even though nobody forced her to put her campaign in the hands of fools like Mark Penn and Terry McCauliffe who would probably manage to get Martin Luther King to lose a school election in Selma Alabama. Because after all, Hillary Clinton is not responsible for her personnel choices or political acumen and her 30 point lead in the polls last November counted for nothing.

    It was stolen, my precious, stolen! Yessssss. My precious.

    So I am woman hear me roar! I am going to vote for anti-choice, pro-war, incompetent, corrupt, badly educated, pandering, lose-cannon, Ambien-taking, hypertensive cancer-stricken old, probably part senile, temperamental, angry, dangerous, nutcase judge-nominating John McCain and it is all Obama’s fault. And his supporters.
    Ba’al

  46. 46
    Queixada says:

    Clinton campaign out does itself and sets new records in shittiness every five minutes:

    Wonkette:

    BESTSHITTIEST IDEA EVER: While you terrible humans have been out on your beaches and patios drinking Corona and eating “ribs,” hilarious Clinton lawyer-friend Lanny Davis has been delivering the best Michigan solution yet! It entails not only giving Hillary the full 55% of the state’s pledged delegates, but then splitting the remaining 45% of delegates between Clinton and Obama — leaving Hillary with 100 or so delegates out of 130! You know why? Because Obama should be punished for taking his name off of Michigan’s ballot. Davis calls this a “Solomonic” compromise, because he likes to cut babies in half and feast on their innards. [Politico]

  47. 47
    nightjar says:

    That’s it. Clinton always was 10 pounds of shit in a 5 pound bag but somehow people on the left deceived themselves into thinking he was one of us instead of the FREE TRADE corporatist he and his shithead of a loser wife actually were

    I think maybe some of us defended him because he was better than the wingnuts and because we were still in the throws of the so-called Conservative Revolution and 10 pounds of shit was better than a sewage lagoon Goopers would have provided. He gave a lot away to the greed merchants in the 90’s, but it could have been worse. Imagine instead of eight years Bush/Gop crime syndicate we’d have has 16.

    Now it seems the public has seen thru the wingnuts and their sticky fingers and have had enough, at least for awhile.

  48. 48
    zuzu's petals says:

    Aloha from my beach cottage on Kauai. After a week and a half of swimming, sunning, looking at waterfalls, and generally enjoying life I find it soooo hard to follow the Clinton agonistes. I’ve discovered that watching it with the sound off, or from the other side of a noisy bar, seems to be enough. Today … Clinton laughing her head off with the Puerto Rican voters. Very sad.

    Ah well, back to the hammock.

  49. 49
    georgia pig says:

    It is because of who his enemies were.

    Bingo. This is something that most Dems, including myself, have avoided. Clinton is a fuckwad, a talented pol and better than most Republicans when viewed in the entirety, but still a fuckwad. Look, he was busting a nut all over a 22 year old intern in the fucking WH. Sure, we can talk about JFK, “consenting adults” and other happy horseshit, but that’s not exactly exemplary behavior. It was pretty sickening how Dems felt they had to defend the fucker, mostly because of the hypocritical hyenas that were after him. He absolutely fucked Gore and then got all pissy because Al didn’t want to campaign with him. I would have respected Hillary a hell of lot more if she kicked his ass out on the street, but it seems like she wanted him around for his political value. I have zero sympathy for her.

  50. 50
    w vincentz says:

    “Clintonian bullshit”.
    “Republican bullshit”.
    Umm…am I missing something?
    Seems to me that “bullshit” is just that. BULLSHIT!
    It stinks either way.
    Does anyone want to sprinkle some on your morning cereal as you turn on your television to see the morning MSM “news”?
    How does it taste?
    If’n you keep eatin’ it, they’ll keep dishin’ it.

  51. 51
    Warren Terra says:

    Y’know, I really have to deduct points from Lanny Davis for lack of ambition and effrontery.

    Really, he should propose that the “uncommitted” delegates be split not between Clinton and Obama, but between Clinton and “uncommitted”. Then the remaining “uncommitted” delegates can again be split between Clinton and “uncommitted”, and again, until Clinton gets all the delegates.

    After all, Obama wasn’t on the ballot, and obviously the “uncommitted” delegates would, in the end, have to choose from among the options they had …

    P.S. As John Cole has previously indicated that Wonkette’s commenters are funnier than us lot – and I have to admit my own efforts can’t be helping us to close the gap much – I will hereby correct Quiexada‘s oversight by linking to their thread.

  52. 52
    Warren Terra says:

    P.P.S. Now that I’ve actually read the Wonkette thread, I regret linking it. Not good snark, not good thread.

  53. 53
    nightjar says:

    Ah well, back to the hammock.

    ELITIST!

  54. 54
    Jorge says:

    This will not go to the convention.

    Until June 3d, this is nothing but one of the toughest primaries in Democratic history. After June 3d this becomes an attempt to destroy the party by robbing the winner of the nomination. As much crap as the current Democratic leadership gets, the past 2 years have shown me that they are politically astute and pragmatic.

    I am fairly certain that anyone still supporting Hillary after June 3d will begin to get messages letting them know that they face a grim, non-existent future in the Democratic party if they continue pushing this. Sane Hillary supporting superdelegates running for re-election will begin to defect to Obama in fairly large numbers. The plan will be to isolate her and humiliate Hillary by defection.

    Howard Dean has already hinted to this – he gave June 3d as his deadline back in February. Pelosi and Reid have made it pretty clear that they have his back. And CYA members of the Hillary campaign like Terry Mac have made it pretty clear that they won’t be around after mid June.

    8 more days. Count on it.

  55. 55
    sab says:

    I’ve lost my Clinton enthusiasm, and deeply regret my vote in the Ohio primary, but Dick and Lynn Cheney are head and shoulders above the Clintons as reprehensible political couples.

  56. 56
    Rick Taylor says:

    Atrios, who’s been wisely staying aloof during the primaries, scratches his head.

    I know I’m not alone in the League of Mostly Nonaligned Bloggers in being rather puzzled by Clinton supporters. I don’t mean all people who supported her, but the ones who are still pushing for her candidacy. As far as I can tell they want her to be the candidate and really just don’t care how that happens as long as it does. At this point only a drastic rule change combined with a massive shift in support from superdelegates even gets her close to the nomination. In another words, cheating combined with the smoke-filled room residents overturning the outcome of the primary process.

    I never really cared all that much about who won this thing, but at some point Obama became the only one with a legitimate path to the nomination. I just stare and scratch my head and wonder what it’s all about. I appreciate that there are people who don’t like Obama for whatever reasons and prefer Clinton for whatever reasons. But he, you know, won?

  57. 57
    Rick Taylor says:

    Dang, I forgot the link.

  58. 58
    Conservatively Liberal says:

    Does it run on gas or JP8 or diesel?

    I like the wind model. It is fashionable and good for the environment, and it keeps him cool in the summer.

    The logical question, it seems to me, is to ask Bill how he felt about the mass of superdelegates who endorsed his wife before the first voter had a chance to make him or herself known. Seems to me that the ones who endorsed early were trying to have more of an effect on the outcome than the ones who have held out till now, and that the Clinton campaign was more aggressive about going after them early in order to lend potency to her inevitability campaign.

    That pissed me off right away. My feeling is that the super delegates should not have announced their decision until the convention,or at least until after the primary. There is no doubt that Hillary thinks that starting out with about a 100 delegate lead before the contests even began was fair. We all now know that if Obama had the same advantage over her, they would have been incessantly howling about the injustice of it all from day one (remember, when it comes to whining and pointing fingers, Hillary is ready from day one!).

    Instead, those super delegates sought to give Hillary the ‘inevitable’ aura by siding with her, and this was a blatant attempt to help her run the table. She would never think about complaining about starting the race with a lead.

    Unless the shoe was on the other foot.

  59. 59
  60. 60
    Dreggas says:

    At what point do we finally begin to realize that this looks like a real Schiavo. You have McCauliffe and Davis going on TV diagnosing Hillary’s candidacy, claiming that since she is still on the trail she is responsive and knows who the people are, all the while her failure to acknowledge the fact she has lost just proves she is brain dead and Bill, much like Schiavo’s parents refuses to accept that.

  61. 61
    w vincentz says:

    OT…for those that like polls. Golly, how will these idiots vote?

    HOLY SHIT!

  62. 62
    Sasha says:

    Bill Clinton didn’t used to be so bat-shit crazy. Or at least he did a better job of covering it up. I can’t believe I followed some clown across Key Bridge one morning, tearing down “Who killed Vince Foster” posters as quickly as he put them up. I can’t believe I made myself late to work that day for those assclowns. Kicking myself, kicking myself, kicking myself…

    Don’t be too hard on yourself. Considering that Bill’s opponents were the type who would put up insane shit like that, I can understand why the Clintons’ adopted the politicking style they did. Their tragic flaw so to speak is that they never realized that, eventually, they could stop, or that in some contexts they shouldn’t use their signature techniques — especially against a promising fellow Dem.

    I hope they come to their senses before their tragedy completes itself.

  63. 63
    PK says:

    That doesn’t, of course, excuse the right-wing bullshit the Clinton’s endured, but it does go a long way to explain why normal Republicans would be driven to exasperation.

    No it does not really. I have never understood where all the Clinton hatred came from? What did the Clinton’s do to drive the republicans crazy. Bill Clinton became president and was pretty much subjected to republican hatred, ridicule and hounding from day one.
    The worst charge against him was lying about a BJ.
    I know people have an irrational hatred against the CLintons. Andrew sullivan is one who foams at the mouth and rages against them every alternate post.
    All the things the republicans accused the Clintons of doing from white water, travelgate , filegate, murder (investigated twice)came to nothing.
    In fact the last 7 yrs have proved that it was the republicans which were corrupt, power hungry immoral and murderous (torture anyone?).
    The media which also hounded the Clintons for yrs did not show the same investigative zeal over the Iraq war or Bush as it did with Monica.
    So no I really do not get why the republicans would be driven to exasperation.
    Don’t get me wrong. I think the Clinton’s are behaving like low life politicians, but I have been driven more crazy by Bush and gang. I still do not believe a single word of anything republicans say against the Clintons. The Clintons may be low but they have to go down a very long way before they match the republicans.

  64. 64
    BUB says:

    BILL AND HILL HAVE BEEN TELLING EACH OTHER FOR EVER

    “WE ARE ENTITLED TO __________________”

    JUST FILL IN THE BLANK

  65. 65
    nemo says:

    That’s it, Lanny Davis has now clinched it for Most Intellectually Bankrupt Clintonian, dispersing an unassailable plurality of the Clinton campaign’s bullshit stockpiles. Extraordinary frakkin’ accomplishment, Lanny.

    Lanny is a master of racking up bullshit points by screwing up simple realities. Dodd and Kucinich didn’t win any delegates in Michigan. Lanny alternates between saying there are 50, 55 and 57 uncommitted Michigan delegates – but he did 1 out of 3! (It’s 55). Small differences, granted, but illustrative of Lanny’s detachment from reality and trouble with objective concepts like math. To him, these things we call “facts” and “numbers” are just as malleable as morals and principles on planet Clintonian.

    We can figure that on Clintonian, they have no access to, or way of comprehending, the Michigan exit poll that asked the voters who showed up how they would’ve voted if Obama and Edwards had been on the ballot: Clinton 46%, Obama 35%, Edwards 12%.

  66. 66
    John Cole says:

    No it does not really. I have never understood where all the Clinton hatred came from? What did the Clinton’s do to drive the republicans crazy

    Have you been asleep the last 3 months?

    Seriously. They hated him because the kind of shit they are directing at Obama, they directed at Republicans. Add that and the fact that they were out to destroy him to the beginning, and figure it out.

  67. 67
    dmsilev says:

    Re: your update about Lanny Davis’s plan to give Hillary 78% of the Michigan delegates, it will no doubt surprise precisely nobody that Jeralyn and her readers think it’s a very fair solution.

    See, it makes perfect sense that not only should Hillary get the delegates for the voters that voted for her, but also that half of the voters who came out to vote against Hillary would have voted for her if their preferred candidate wasn’t on the ballot. Which he wasn’t, of course.

    If this is the best argument that the Clinton campaign and supportershas (and even with this absurdity, she’d still be behind in total delegates), then there’s no point arguing with them. Truly a separate reality.

    -dms

  68. 68
    lola says:

    the scary thing is just how much this endless stream of bs is in fact poisoning the well. i was over perusing a pro-clinton site and i tried to make the point that um, hello hillary signed the dnc agreement and that camp clinton pretty much wrote the rule book on this, and they were not hearing any of it. i wasn’t raising my virtual voice or anything and they booted me! hillary and bill have manged to convince these yahoos that the election is getting stolen from them and there is no convincing them otherwise. scar, scary stuff

  69. 69
    PK says:

    Have you been asleep the last 3 months?

    No. And based on the last 3 months I can understand the Clinton hatred.

    Seriously. They hated him because the kind of shit they are directing at Obama, they directed at Republicans. Add that and the fact that they were out to destroy him to the beginning, and figure it out.

    Exactly. I have no idea what kind of shit they did direct against the republicans. I have never heard of any specific examples, only general characterizations. The big charges were all false. So I wonder if the Clintons really were always that bad or they became so due to yrs fighting dirty with the republicans.
    I wasn’t a partisan democrat in the 90s and was barely politically aware. In fact I consider myself a democrat only because the other side is pure garbage.

  70. 70
    Kevin says:

    To him, these things we call “facts” and “numbers” are just as malleable as morals and principles on planet Clintonian.

    Facts are stupid things.

  71. 71
    CT says:

    I’m gonna have to have somebody rig up a block in my web browser so that I can never follow a link to TalkLeft again. The amazing thing about the linked thread is not the warm reception Lanny’s proposal gets, but the number of people who, in the name of protecting the sacred will of the Michigan voters, want Obama to get nothing but a piping hot cup of ‘uncommitted’, with FULL! popular vote credit for HILLARY!

    In the real world, the question is whether those states will lose all or half of their delegates, and how the supers will be penalized. TalkLefties are about 48 hours from proposing that MI and FL get double delegates for all the trouble we’ve put them through.

  72. 72
    Brachiator says:

    georgia pig Says:

    He absolutely fucked Gore and then got all pissy because Al didn’t want to campaign with him.

    Thank you for reminding me why Obama should just kick both Clintons to the curb and be done with them. Their promises mean nothing, and there is no reason to believe that they would be reliable cheerleaders for Obama.

    They simply can not be expected to behave themselves, and Bill Clinton will go off the reservation any time he likes, citing “former president” privilege, even if Obama caves in and offers the VP spot to Hillary. They will second-guess every Obama decision, and then try to fall back on their “Who, me?” bullshit when criticized.

    It’s a mess, but I don’t think that the Clintons realize the degree to which they are burning through the last bits of goodwill that many people still have for them.

    I would have respected Hillary a hell of lot more if she kicked his ass out on the street, but it seems like she wanted him around for his political value. I have zero sympathy for her.

    Obama’s unexpected rise may have ruined Hillary’s secret plan to divorce Bill after getting elected president, but before the inauguration.

  73. 73
    Kevin says:

    There’s another diary over on DKos with some quotes from Bill Clinton’s book where he says that the primaries in 1992 were effectively over by the second week of April.

    Think Bill has read his own book?

  74. 74
    myiq2xu says:

    the scary thing is just how much this endless stream of bs is in fact poisoning the well. i was over perusing a pro-clinton site and i tried to make the point that um, hello hillary signed the dnc agreement and that camp clinton pretty much wrote the rule book on this, and they were not hearing any of it. i wasn’t raising my virtual voice or anything and they booted me! hillary and bill have manged to convince these yahoos that the election is getting stolen from them and there is no convincing them otherwise. scar, scary stuff

    I was there when you got your ass booted from the Confluence lola/caroline whatever your name is.

    Your level of dishonesty doesn’t surprise me, coming from a Obama troll.

    You should fit in well around here.

  75. 75
    Kevin says:

    Your level of dishonesty doesn’t surprise me, coming from a Obama troll.

    Self-awareness isn’t your strong suit.

  76. 76
    Warren Terra says:

    Re Brachiator‘s comment, can’t we denounce the Clintons’ execrable public behavior without insinuating and alleging things about their private lives that we cannot know about, and that I for one cannot particularly care about?

    The shocking depths of amorality to which Sen. Clinton has descended in the furtherance of her public ambitions has no bearing on her private life and the very real possibility that she and Bill genuinely love each other. I never thought the investigation into Bill’s infidelities were appropriate when he was the only thing standing between us and Tom DeLay, and I still don’t think so now that he’s doing his best to become Tom DeLay.

  77. 77
    myiq2xu says:

    Self-awareness isn’t your strong suit.

    Intelligence isn’t yours

  78. 78
    Conservatively Liberal says:

    Self-awareness isn’t your strong suit.

    No shit. You have to join in the circle jerking goat-fuck orgy in that asylum (and the other screaming batshit insane pro-Hillary cesspools out there) to fit in with the rest of the patients. They have to ban differing opinions to keep their echo-chamber of inanity faithful to The Cult of Hillary.

    You know, that herding/fear type of behavior sounds more like how Republicans behave under duress. Interesting.

  79. 79
    Kevin says:

    Intelligence isn’t yours

    Translated:

    I know you are, but what am I?

    You are a silly person.

  80. 80
    Cain says:

    I was there when you got your ass booted from the Confluence lola/caroline whatever your name is

    Somebody needs a big hug. Come myiq2xu, come into my arms, and find solace. I’ll give you a little pacifer and burp you, and you’ll feel right as rain. You’ll forget about all the naughty things that happened the past 3 months and then I’ll give you a nice ride on a pony. Wouldn’t you like that? A cute little pony? After that we’ll tuck you in, give you a nice warm glass of milk, and we’ll wake you up in November.

    cain

  81. 81
    Keith says:

    I would say that Bill should do the honorable thing and go off to make documentaries like Al Gore, but unfortunately, Morgan Spurlock already made “Super Size Me”.

  82. 82
    Conservatively Liberal says:

    Somebody needs a big hug. Come myiq2xu, come into my arms, and find solace. No, not that kind of ‘come’ you little devil! I’ll give you a little pacifer and burp you, and you’ll feel right as rain. You’ll forget about all the naughty things that happened the past 3 months and then I’ll give you a nice ride on a pony let you have your way with a goat. Wouldn’t you like that? A cute little pony virgin goat? After that we’ll tuck you in, give you a nice warm glass of milk, and we’ll wake you up in November.

    Improved. ;)

  83. 83
    Genine says:

    Somebody needs a big hug. Come myiq2xu, come into my arms, and find solace. I’ll give you a little pacifer and burp you, and you’ll feel right as rain. You’ll forget about all the naughty things that happened the past 3 months and then I’ll give you a nice ride on a pony. Wouldn’t you like that? A cute little pony? After that we’ll tuck you in, give you a nice warm glass of milk, and we’ll wake you up in November.

    cain

    You’re a nurturer, Cain.

  84. 84
    Jason F says:

    mbuchel Says:

    It’s really pretty amazing when you think of it. The one-time leaders of the Democratic Party are now embarking on mission to delegitimize the nominee of the Democratic Party. If we can’t have the nomination – no one can.
    Their game should be so obvious to Democrats (and most importantly right now, Superdelegates). But no. We are going to commit group suicide instead of rallying around the brightest light the party has had in 40 years.
    Here’s the summer/fall playbook (and feel free to jump in and tell me where I’m wrong):
    1. The Rules Committee on May 31 votes to strip half the delegates from FL and MI and gives the uncommitted MI delegates to Obama.
    2. The Clintons refuse to accept the ruling and fight on to the convention, all the while stating that the nomination isn’t over.
    3. Obama continues to fight a two front war and the idiots at Talk Left keep complaining that Obama won’t step aside and unite the party by giving her the nomination.
    4. Her poll numbers will look great against McCain because Obama won’t attack her since he actually wants to unify the party, further motivating her supporters and idiot pundits everywhere to argue she is the stronger candidate after all.
    5. He exits a bloody convention as the nominee and is deemed irreparably damaged by the punditocracy.
    6. The Clintons will spend the fall making statements that are designed to undermine his candidacy but contain just enough wiggle room to allow them to use euphemisms like “I was only making a historical statement.”
    7. Obama loses a narrow election due to McCain’s surprising strength among older white women who cite sexism by Obama vs. Hillary in exit polls.
    8. The sons of said older white women continue to get killed in Iraq and now Iran too. Their daughters lose their reproductive rights.
    I will now go light myself on fire. Please take me off of life support in November unless I’m wrong about #7.

    This is spot-on. There’s exactly one chance to short circuit this, and it happens this Friday. What needs to happen is for the Rules Committee to completely and utterly cave in to the Clinton camp on Michigan and Florida. If she argues that Michigan’s delegates should get 3 votes, let her have it.

    Simultaneously, Governor Dean needs to twist whatever superdelegate arms he needs to twist to ensure that Senator Obama is, unambiguously and by any measure, the party’s nominee.

    Because you’re exactly right. Senator Clinton doesn’t give a damn about Michigan and Florida per se. She cares about them solely as an instrument by which she can legitimize continuing this fight until the convention.

  85. 85
    Jason F says:

    I need to check my calendar. The Rules Committee meets Saturday, not Friday. Otherwise, I stand by my previous comment.

  86. 86
    Jeff says:

    Re: Lanny Davis’ “compromise”:

    After just watching Recount, it reminds me of the BS talking point the Bush team came up with about “wanting only to count the Gore votes and nothing else”… except in this case, it’s even worse… Not only does Clinton want all of her votes, she wants all of the votes against her to be her votes as well. That seems perfectly reasonable… on Planet Clintonia.

  87. 87
    Conservatively Liberal says:

    Regarding Hillary and her equating Bill’s ’92 primary with this primary?

    Shot to hell, by Bill himself. Darn!

  88. 88
    rob! says:

    hey myiq-

    my pledge to donate a $1 to Obama for every idiotic post from you is in effect in perpetuity, so just soze you know, you’ve earned $2 for Obama tonight.

    sleep well.

  89. 89
    Delia says:

    You’ll forget about all the naughty things that happened the past 3 months and then I’ll give you a nice ride on a pony. Wouldn’t you like that? A cute little pony?

    a…a…Magical Unity Pony?

  90. 90
    Conservatively Liberal says:

    my pledge to donate a $1 to Obama for every idiotic post from you is in effect in perpetuity, so just soze you know, you’ve earned $2 for Obama tonight.

    While there are no limits to the stupidity that is NoIQ, fortunately for you that there is a limit to how much you can reward Obama.

    Otherwise NoIQ would bankrupt you.

  91. 91
    eastriver says:

    It’s a good thing no one influential reads this site. Otherwise all the ass-holery on display here might have some effect on the election.

    Obama will be the nominee.

    Now shut the fuck up. Before you idiots alienate a single Clinton supporter.

    Do the math. STFU.

    (Usual disclaimer: I am not a HRC supporter. I didn’t vote for her. I didn’t, nor wont’, give her a dime.)

  92. 92
    Conservatively Liberal says:

    Do the math.

    We did, and only the most rabid, plus some ‘bitter’, supporters who would not vote for Obama anyways are our loss.

    Big deal. With his attraction to voters in the middle, combined with the newly registered voters and the Democrats on this plane of reality, Obama will win this fall. Hell, Bob Barr’s entry as a Libertarian makes that even easier for us!

    STFU.

    If you enjoy telling people what to do, go start your own blog and run it the way you want. While I won’t tell you to STFU, I will suggest a long leisurely walk off a short pier.

    One final note: We did not talk the nutty Clinton supporters out onto the ledge, Hillary did. She can start the negotiations to talk them down any time she wants to. We did not create this mess, she did. She has to end it.

  93. 93
    mbuchel says:

    I know it’s easy to agree with someone who agrees with me, but Jason F is right.
    The only way to avoid a convention fight is for the rules committee to seat MI and FL based on the January votes. Any other scenario allows the Clintons to voice a “justifiable” reason to keep fighting through the summer “on behalf of the voters of these crucial swing states.”
    Obama then has to immediately roll out however many superdelegates he needs to put him past 2210 or whatever the new number is. This is the only way that her superdelegates will feel they have the cover to speak out and force her to abandon her quest to take the party down. She may try to continue for a while (and at most will suspend her campaign rather than endorse), and there will still be the lunatic fringe at Talk Left and Hillaryis44 fighting on, but they will truly look like Japanese soldiers in a bunker still fighting WWII in the 1950s (h/t Tweety).
    And God help us if he comes up even one short of that magic number.

  94. 94
    Conservatively Liberal says:

    The only way to avoid a convention fight is for the rules committee to seat MI and FL based on the January votes. Any other scenario allows the Clintons to voice a “justifiable” reason to keep fighting through the summer “on behalf of the voters of these crucial swing states.”

    I respectfully disagree with this idea. The DNC is not going to be too hot about it either, and even Hillary supporters on the panel say that there should be a penalty. In Florida, at best seat them with half of their delegates, and at a minimum toss the Florida supers out for their complicity in moving the primary date up. They were fully aware of the consequences, and they should pay the going price.

    Regarding Michigan, cut the delegate totals in half and distribute them according to the vote, giving Obama the undeclared votes/delegates. It is obvious that they did not want their vote to go to Clinton, even though she was the only name on the ballot. Let the committee hash out what to do about their supers, but I would cut those in half too.

    If there is no penalty for their violation, the next set of primary wars will be a nightmare as states jockey for positions knowing that there will be no consequences for doing so. It would be a disaster and total mayhem. The rules exist for a reason, even if they do need to be tweaked.

    No thank you. They will be seated, but not in a way that changes the outcome of the race. No way will Obama agree to that, and he would be right not to. He played by the rules, and everyone else has to too. They made their bed, and if their voters are pissed then they need to be pointed at those who are responsible.

    And it ain’t Dean or Obama, that’s for damn sure. It’s a little closer to home. Dean and the DNC are pissed that Hillary is dumping all of this on them, and you can bet that they are going to let her know it. Real soon.

  95. 95
    Delia says:

    And God help us if he comes up even one short of that magic number.

    I’m sure that whatever magic number Obama reaches, there will always be another one a little bit higher the next day.

    I also have a theory that there are couple of hundred or so people who circulate through all the pro-Hillary sites, spending their days pumping each other into a frenzy and using various handles on various sites. Eventually it will all break down, and they probably are mad enough (in all senses of the word) to vote for McCain, but it really won’t matter all that much, because there aren’t all that many of them.

  96. 96
    zuzu's petals says:

    nightjar Says:

    Ah well, back to the hammock.

    ELITIST!

    Guilty.

    On the other hand, I will gladly come back and walk the beach precincts for Mr. O.

    BTW, his Honolulu high school has evidently been named best in the country (by Sports Illustrated?) for athletic programs. Something like 2/3 of the high school students play a sport. Barry must have been a pretty typical student.

  97. 97

    […] More at Memeorandum: The Daily Dish, NO QUARTER, Balloon Juice and Sweetness & Light Share and Enjoy: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages. […]

  98. 98
    mere mortal says:

    wondering why so many normally reasonable Republicans fought so hard and were so bitter and were so ready to assume that the Gore campaign was going to somehow steal the election

    Fiction, projection, mental illness. It wasn’t the Clintons who drove YOUR side insane, Cole. It was yourself and YOUR side. Whitewater was invented in 1992 in an attempt to preserve the presidency for Bush, and YOUR side hounded him with that and other invented scandals until YOUR side found a pedestrian extramarital affair with which to impeach.

    YOUR side went insane, and YOU keep projecting it onto the Clintons as their fault that YOU are bonkers and can’t discuss them in an intelligent, rational manner.

    Bush vs. Gore (note who was suing whom) was straight theft, maybe you didn’t accept that as part of your turn away from the Dark Side, but that’s what it was. Don’t blame Gore, don’t blame the Clintons that YOUR side stole a presidential election.

    YOU and YOUR side are still angry and bitter that the Clintons will fight hard, fight fair, and try to win all the way to the end. YOU and YOUR side have not, did not, and apparently will not, because YOU and YOUR side could never beat them, even when YOUR side cheated.

    That’s what has driven you to fiction, projection, and insanity, and why you have a tag called “I Can No Longer Rationally Discuss The Clinton Campaign.”

  99. 99
    Brachiator says:

    Warren Terra Says:

    Re Brachiator’s comment, can’t we denounce the Clintons’ execrable public behavior without insinuating and alleging things about their private lives that we cannot know about, and that I for one cannot particularly care about?

    The shocking depths of amorality to which Sen. Clinton has descended in the furtherance of her public ambitions has no bearing on her private life and the very real possibility that she and Bill genuinely love each other.

    I note in passing that you are insinuating things that you cannot know about if you are considering “the very real possibility that she and Bill genuinely love each other.”

    But in any case, I was just reacting to georgia pig’s comment about Hillary kicking Bill out onto the street, and my speculation about Hillary secretly wanting to divorce Bill but ending up being stuck with him is a parody projection that is as deliberately ridiculous as Bill’s psychic hotline prediction that Hillary is a lock to win the general election.

    So apart from my frustration at the Clintonian BS, and my general belief that they should be mocked early and often, I really don’t give a rat’s ass about the quality or honesty of their marriage.

    I note, however, that if Hillary somehow wrangles the VP spot, the Republicans will be all over the Clinton marriage like stink on a turd, and will serve as a pointless distraction even though I agree that it should be beyond the pale.

    I never thought the investigation into Bill’s infidelities were appropriate when he was the only thing standing between us and Tom DeLay, and I still don’t think so now that he’s doing his best to become Tom DeLay.

    I think that the impeachment waste of time, but Bill couldn’t control his appetites and handed his enemies the stick that they subsequently used to beat him.

  100. 100

    mortal:

    Apparently the Clintons drive you to being unable to type the word “you” without making it in all caps. I suppose we all respond differently to batshit lunacy.

    Besides, rational thought left the Clinton camp months ago. If anything, John’s late to the party you Clintards started.

  101. 101
    Conservatively Liberal says:

    Hillary:

    I’m a real believer in evidence-based decision making, and if you look at the evidence, as this campaign has gone on, I’ve gotten stronger and stronger.

    Now we all know that this is an outright lie by Hillary. This statement, coming from the person who voted for the AUMF without reading the NIE, tells you all that you need to know about her.

    She is a pathological liar, just like hubby.

  102. 102
    Ted says:

    Myiq is very bitter.

  103. 103

    Mere
    guess what, Whitewater wasn’t an invention, it was real and some people went to jail for criminal conduct, what wasn’t the case was criminal conduct on the Clintons’ part, just real damn close. The kind of thing, you know, shouldn’t be done by people who hold offices of trust or aspire to them. Nice of Barry O not to bring it up, eh? Much smellier than Ayers or even Wright.

    The Clintons and the Republicans had plenty enough stink in common. I just happened to dislike the Republicans more.

    Never bother loons with facts.

  104. 104
    Joyce says:

    Is Hillary serious?

    MARCH ON THE Democratic National Committee (DNC) RBC Meeting
    When
    Saturday, May 31, 2008 at 9:00 AM – 5:00 PM
    Where
    Marriott Wardman Park Hotel – Salon 1
    2660 Woodley Road NW
    Washington DC, MD 20003
    General Area: THE Democratic National Committee (DNC) HEAD QUARTERS
    Description
    My, Fellow HRC Supporters… I IMPLORE THOSE OF YOU WHO SHARE MY PASSIONATE BELIEF IN THE CORE PRINCIPLES OF DEMOCRACY to join me in a MARCH ON THE DNC RBC Meeting on Saturday, May 31, 2008 TO EMPHATICALLY PROCLAIM THAT WE ** WILL NOT ** TOLERATE THE DNC’s decision SUPPRESS the VOICES of our fellow CITIZENS in Florida & Michigan. WE MUST DEMAND THAT THE DELEGATES FROM FL & MI BE SEATED AT THE DEMOCRATIC CONVENTION. Secondly, IT SEEMS AS THOUGH Howard Dean, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, and TED KENNEDY are laboring under the GROSS MISCONCEPTION that WE ARE AS DISLOYAL AND INSCRUPULOUS AS THEY ARE. Moreover, the DNC Leadership MUST BE CONVINCED THAT WE WILL NOT PASSIVELY ACCEPT Barack Obama as our Democratic Nominee, and that WE ARE STEADFAST Hillary Clinton Supporters. Consequently, the DNC Leadership MUST BE CONVINCED that if HRC IS NOT ON THE DEMOCRATIC TICKET IN NOVEMBER, SOME OF US MAY CHOOSE to leave the DEMOCRATIC Party, OR SIMPLY ‘STAY HOME’ ON ELECTION DAY.
    Host
    Yvette Winfield
    Fundraiser
    The host is trying to raise money at this event. The suggested contribution is $25 per user. Contributions can be made after submitting your RSVP.
    http://www.hillaryclinton.com/...../?id=14350

  105. 105
    Walker says:

    Is Hillary serious?

    If true, this is guaranteed to have the opposite effect. The RBC won’t put up with this.

    All Hillary is doing is delegitimizing the primary and forcing people out of the Democratic party. This is proof positive that we are in scorched earth mode now.

  106. 106
    Helena Montana says:

    Thanks for that link, Joyce. I used it to have some get the week started right fun w/the Clinton campaign.

  107. 107
    Sleeper says:

    eastriver Says:

    It’s a good thing no one influential reads this site.

    Make sure not to spill any of your latte on that college diploma of yours, you fancypants elitist you.

  108. 108
    nightjar says:

    Now shut the fuck up. Before you idiots alienate a single Clinton supporter.

    Do the math. STFU.

    Don’t think so pal. Not as long as HC and her supporters are doing their best to destroy not only Obama’s candidacy, but now it seems the Democratic party itself.

    My guess is HC herself is doing the best job at alienating a good number of her own supporters and the rest seem to have lost their fucking minds. So relax mister concern troll, and climb aboard the Mighty MUP..

  109. 109
    Wilfred says:

    Re: March on Washington

    Dear Yvette: The ONLY thing I love MORE than the CORE PRINCIPLES OF DEMOCRACY is the life that gives me a CHANCE to love things like such things, and HILLARY. It would be an UNDERSTATEMENT OF FACTUAL REALITY for me, as a PERSON, to say I feel GROSSLY MISCONVINCED of what is MORALLY AND DEFENSIBLY TRUE AND GOOD and, as a human person COMMITTED to the congruent LOYALTY expected of me as such a person I WILL STEADFASTLY do this.
    I will be THERE or I will be HOME, on election day I mean.

  110. 110
    Ming says:

    Hillary’s only chance is to say as many provocative, outrageous things as possible, and hope that Obama (as any normal person would) loses his cool. She needs to draw this out for as many months as she can, she needs to be as negative as possible. She desperately needs to provoke Obama into uttering a soundbite that will weaken him. This is the only way she can force her way onto his ticket as his running mate.

    Obama must stay “above the fray”, and plan to deal with both Clinton and McCain for the next few months. It’s hard when it drags on and on, but there is simply no alternative.

  111. 111
    4tehlulz says:

    Yvette Winfield

    WELL we NOW know who BIRDZILLA is.

  112. 112
    Anticorium says:

    Secondly, IT SEEMS AS THOUGH Howard Dean, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, and TED KENNEDY are laboring under the GROSS MISCONCEPTION that WE ARE AS DISLOYAL AND INSCRUPULOUS AS THEY ARE.

    Well, the brain tumor honeymoon’s over for that guy, isn’t it?

  113. 113
    Anticorium says:

    Secondly, IT SEEMS AS THOUGH Howard Dean, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, and TED KENNEDY are laboring under the GROSS MISCONCEPTION that WE ARE AS DISLOYAL AND INSCRUPULOUS AS THEY ARE.

    Well, the brain tumor honeymoon’s over for that guy, isn’t it?

  114. 114
    Anticorium says:

    Er, that wasn’t a double post, I just thought it bore repeating.

  115. 115
    Dan says:

    $109 mil in income, $165 mil library. Lots of people, foreign governments and corporations were expecting a lot of favors when Hil got elected. Bill is freaking now, cause they are gonna come looking for their money back.

    “They took my thumbs, Charlie!”

  116. 116
    Gus says:

    Sorry,John, I have to call bullshit. Nothing, nothing nothing will ever excuse what the Republicans did to steal the election in 2000.

    Agree w/gypsy howell. You make it sound like those good Republicans were trying to keep the evil Gore from stealing the election which looks just about opposite of the way it was.

  117. 117
    nightjar says:

    Tom in Texas Says:

    mortal:

    Apparently the Clintons drive you to being unable to type the word “you” without making it in all caps. I suppose we all respond differently to batshit lunacy.

    Yea, what’s up with that. Nervous Caps Syndrome or are they just happy to read us.

  118. 118
    Conservatively Liberal says:

    Is Hillary serious?

    Yes. Insanely so. It’s her version of ‘Girls Gone Wild’, and she wants it pushed on TV as much as the real thing is.

    INSCRUPULOUS

    They need to buy a better spell checker too. A better campaign while they are at it too.

    WELL we NOW know who BIRDZILLA is.

    No shit. That’s what I thought too!

  119. 119
    over_educated says:

    I was there when you got your ass booted from the Confluence lola/caroline whatever your name is.

    Your level of dishonesty doesn’t surprise me, coming from a Obama troll.

    You should fit in well around here.

    Well, since you have long ago given up making rational arguments on a blog where you aren’t banned immediately if you haven’t partaken of the Clinton Kool-Aid I don’t think you are really qualified to comment on someone else “dishonesty” (intellectual or otherwise). Say what you want about BJ, but you can post whatever ridiculuous pro-Clinton idiocy that is the flavor of the moment. Of course, on BJ your argument will be refuted and often (justifiably) mocked.

  120. 120
    Mary says:

    Interesting. This diarist says that if MI is seated in full, Obama gets 31 of 36 district delegates.

    The problem with giving in to a full delegation is that the MI state party royally deserves a collective ass-kicking. I’d also hate to see the Clintons rewarded, especially if they continue to proclaim that this gives them the edge in the popular vote (although that number might drop a bit if Obama has 31 delegates). Of course the RBC won’t fall for that bullshit, but a chunk of Clinton supporters will.

    The tricky thing is seating the delegates appropriately, punishing the states, not the voters, as much as is reasonable (yank all the SDs from both states at the very least, I say), while keeping Clinton voter disaffection to a reasonable minimum.

  121. 121
    Mary says:

    Oh, and this Sully correspondent argues that there is a rough way to measure how many voters in MI and FL stayed home:

    I compared the number of persons who cast ballots this year in each of the other top ten States to the number of persons who voted for John Kerry in the 2004 general election. In every single State where both candidates campaigned — meaning every State but New York, which Obama ceded to Hillary and Illinois, which Hillary ceded to Obama — the turnout was at least 75% of the Kerry vote. (CA: 75%; TX: 103%; PA: 79%; OH: 85%; NC: 107%; GA: 79%; as for IL and NY, IL: 70%; NY: 44%).

    In contrast, in Michigan, the percentage was a paltry 24% and in Florida the percentage was 44%.

    That tells me that counting Michigan and Florida would disenfranchise a large number of voters who did not vote, because there was no campaigning and/or the voters there thought the contest would not count and so did not bother to vote.

  122. 122
    The Other Steve says:

    I can’t wait until June 4th when she drops out.

  123. 123
    Conservatively Liberal says:

    Another reason to be leery of seating the Michigan delegates is because Clinton operatives already packed the ‘uncommitted’ delegates with Clinton supporters.

    No wonder she wants them seated as uncommitted. She owns them.

  124. 124
    liberal says:

    sunny quoted,

    It was stolen, my precious, stolen! Yessssss. My precious.

    LOL! I think that’s the best succinct take on the matter.

  125. 125
    Brachiator says:

    Mary Says:

    Interesting. This diarist says that if MI is seated in full, Obama gets 31 of 36 district delegates.

    The problem with giving in to a full delegation is that the MI state party royally deserves a collective ass-kicking. I’d also hate to see the Clintons rewarded, especially if they continue to proclaim that this gives them the edge in the popular vote (although that number might drop a bit if Obama has 31 delegates). Of course the RBC won’t fall for that bullshit, but a chunk of Clinton supporters will.

    Yeah, this is a mess. On the other hand, Obama has bee too passive with respect to the issue of FL and MI, letting the Clinton people toss out outrageous suggestions like giving Hillary all of the delegates based on those who voted for her in the MI primary, AND ALSO a share of the uncommitted delegates.

    Obama needs to hire some of those fancy ass elitist statisticians from the University of Chicago and toss some bullshit back on the Clintons. For example, in an earier thread, I noted that if you look at actual exit poll data, as opposed to the new math nonsense spewed out of Camp Clinton, you can make a solid case for giving Obama a bigger chunk of MI delegates than the “official” vote count might indicate.

    Officially, Clinton got 55% of the vote in Michigan. However, if you look at the exit polls, which is the best available indicator of voter intent, then you get the following results:

    Clinton, 46%
    Obama, 35%
    Edwards, 12%

    Exit polling also indicates that Obama may have been the choice of up to 79% of a combination of Clinton and uncommitted voters (CNN primary exit polls).

    In short, Hillary should bow out because she is trying to steal an election and disenfranchise Obama voters. Cheaters and frauds should be penalized, not rewarded with a nomination to run for the office of president of the United States.

    Hillary’s number comes down because some people are on the exit poll record as stating that they voted for Clinton but would have voted for Obama had his name been on the ticket. On the other hand, few uncommitted voters named Clinton as their first choice.

    To get more aggressive, Obama should claim the vote count of people who voted for Edwards.

    Clinton’s people have stayed on top of the FL and MI issue only because they have been aggressively scrambling to boost their popular and delegate vote totals. But they are rank amateurs when it comes to numerical analysis. If they want to engage in a back room brawl over delgates, Obama’s people should be willing to rumble in the numbers.

  126. 126
    ksmiami says:

    Well – it made me feel better. I just sent this to the Clinton website… Ah Catharsis, my old friend.
    ________________________________________________________
    Dear Ms. Clinton,

    For years, my husband and I have been loyal, committed democrats. We’ve contributed money, defended you and your husband from Right Wing smears, but now to see that you have become something dark, worse than a Republican is sad. TO hear Lanny Davis’ insidious charge that basically all of the Michigan delegates should go to you plus your pathetic use of a historically tragic event makes me wish I had never voted for your spouse at all. And there are many people just like me. There is nothing wrong with losing, but there is something wrong with losing ugly and tarnishing a fellow Democrat.

    Signed,

    a FL Democrat for OBAMA

  127. 127

    […] We WUZ ROBBED! […]

  128. 128
    dana b says:

    You folks posting here are reinforcing one another’s views that Hillary is a terrible, evil person. But you are really in an echo chamber no different from many other blogs. You should really get out more, walk around, check out contrasting points of view from neighbors, former friends, and the web. And people who disagree with you should bother to post to this blog to let you know that there is a substantial body of opinion out there that views Hillary or her campaign in a positive light.

    We see her as having won 50% of the vote and most of the popular vote momentum since Ohio/Texas/Rhode Island. We see her as the most likely candidate to beat McCain and have serious doubts about Barack’s electoral vote strategy in November. The history of voting patterns is against him. Though we hope for the best outcome for him in November, we have little faith he can make up for the losses of Florida and Ohio. We see Hillary as the more qualified candidate to be president and as offering detailed programs that target our needs. Some of us like Barack as a second choice. Some of us (like me) don’t believe he is experienced enough in government to be qualified for the job.

    So for all those reasons, we don’t understand why Hillary and the Clintons are being demonized here and elsewhere. Barack may very well win the game of getting nominated, but he needs all those Hillary voters to turn out for him in November. I don’t see how he is going to get us unless he puts her on the ticket. I say that as a life-long Democrat and a strong Hillary supporter. I would have a hard time voting for him otherwise.

    You know, a lot has been said about African-American and young voters turning away from the general election if Barack is “robbed” of the nomination. But there is another story here too: a lot of women like myself are very reluctant to vote for Obama, to ratify the anti-Clinton movement in any way. Only recently have some, like Joan Walsh at Salon.com, started to suggest that voters like myself will stay home or vote for somebody else. I honestly don’t know what I’m going to do. That’s something Obama and his supporters need to weigh very heavily. How many traditional constituencies can you folks really do without while courting the new ones? How many voters can you write off as unneccessary to your winning in this brave new world of yours?

    And one last thought:
    The Clintons are not going to go away, because the rest of us who support them (17 million or so) are not going away.

  129. 129
    John Cole says:

    So for all those reasons, we don’t understand why Hillary and the Clintons are being demonized here and elsewhere.

    Have you honestly not noticed what she and her campaign are doing? Do you think the lying about Michigan and Florida should go without mention? Did you miss Lanny Davis’s outright deceit? Did you miss the not as good as McCain remarks? Did you not pay attention to the “white folks won’t voter for him” Appalachian tour? Did you miss all of that and more. Have you missed the riot they are trying to form at the Rules committee?

    Good christ, Hillary is not being dmeonized for who she is, her campaign is being demonized for WHAT THEY HAVE DONE and WHAT THEY ARE DOING.

  130. 130
    zuzu's petals says:

    Only recently have some, like Joan Walsh at Salon.com, started to suggest that voters like myself will stay home or vote for somebody else. I honestly don’t know what I’m going to do.

    I can only imagine that you were not alive/sentient prior to 1973, or you would never make such a stupide remark. I’m sorry for being so blunt, but really, it’s just stupid.

    Unless of course you think voting for a man who promises – PROMISES – to put more judges like Alito on the bench is somehow a vote “for women.” And make no mistake, if you stay home or “vote for somebody else” you are voting for John McCain.

  131. 131
    zuzu's petals says:

    stupide = stupid

    I didn’t say I could type.

  132. 132
    dana b says:

    First, to John Cole:
    “Have you honestly not noticed what she and her campaign are doing? Do you think the lying about Michigan and Florida should go without mention? Did you miss Lanny Davis’s outright deceit? Did you miss the not as good as McCain remarks? Did you not pay attention to the “white folks won’t voter for him” Appalachian tour? Did you miss all of that and more. Have you missed the riot they are trying to form at the Rules committee?”

    This may seem weird to you, but yes, I believe what the Clinton campaign does to try to advantage their candidate is pretty regular politics. I don’t find what she’s done or what McCain is doing right now as despicable. Pointing out your opponent’s weaknesses (or what you, at least believe are their weaknesses) is hardball politics, but it’s not evil or wrong, even when done in the primary. And pointing out your own electability versus your opponent’s questionable electability is also just politics, not nefarious conspiracy.

    And I think that the Clinton campaign was right to point out that Barack doesn’t have the experience of either Hillary or McCain.

    And as far as the “white folks won’t vote for him” Appalachian tour that you mention, I don’t see it. I see, instead, a candidate who bothered to campaign in person in Kentucky and West Virginia, while her opponent decided to coast over the finish line and not deal with trying to narrow the margins of those probable defeats. Further, I think the Clinton campaign was simply pointing out that Barack has as of yet NOT connected to folks in Kentucky and West Virginia and western Pennsylvania and eastern Ohio. You don’t tend to win a general election without connecting to that electorate. If anyone is talking about dumb white hicks, it’s the Obama supporters, who more or less say that Obama doesn’t get these votes because these voters are “racists”. I guess they just haven’t heard Barack’s clarion call. I guess I haven’t either.
    Maddening, isn’t it?

  133. 133
    dana b says:

    To zuzu’s petals:

    First of all, I really like your moniker. I can’t say I like the following:
    “I can only imagine that you were not alive/sentient prior to 1973, or you would never make such a stupide remark. I’m sorry for being so blunt, but really, it’s just stupid.”

    One of the beauties of reading and sometimes commenting on blogs from all over the place is that you can come across points of view you just cannot fathom. Instead of calling people “stupide”, why don’t you simply ask how in heaven they came to their points of view?

    To answer the question you did not ask:
    I realized with this election that I have a distasteful set of choices. I believe in most of the policy proposals and the more dovish foreign affairs approach that Obama talks about. The problem is I don’t see him having a track record. I don’t believe him and I don’t believe in him. I think he’ll flail in the presidency and that other power brokers will do everything they can to direct and manipulate him. And I fear he might be a demagogue. For me, he is the great unknown.

    Then I look at McCain and I see a person whose policies for Iraq, the Supreme Court, and the economy look like real losers. But I actually believe that John McCain is who he says he is and will do what he says he will. He has a track record. I believe him. And I fear he might harm the country and my own personal interests by following what he sincerely believes in.

    When you don’t have a palatable alternative you tend to swing one way and then another depending on the day. I never understood “undecided voters” before. Now, I do. Is that “stupide”?

  134. 134
    Joyce says:

    I see who supports endless war and death in Iraq.

    It is a good thing that the Obama campaign has been registering new voters and helping other democratic candidates with organization and money. As for Clinton supporters voting for McCain–many want to turn the democratic party into republican lite. Many are swing voters anyway.They swung for Clinton and they swung back to Bush instead of Kerry.

    Now for the feminist rant–A woman with a Yale law degree, who stays with her husband after he humiliates her over and over again with his mistresses….is not a feminist icon. She is a STEPFORD wife trying to give her husband the back door to the Whitehouse. BRAND NAMES should be for jeans, not elected officials. If Hillary were not the wife of a former president, she would be Senator from New York. After her presidential campaign, she may not be even a senator anymore.

    As for McCain–he has a lot of trouble with his own party members. The rightwing blogs are full of articles and comments about his flip-flopping and lies. Ron Paul is still drawing large crowds and got 15% of the vote in Oregon. Bob Barr is on the Libertarian ticket and many republicans I know said they are joining the Constitution party.

  135. 135
    zuzu's petals says:

    dana b:

    Thank you for correcting my typo. A correction I made myself in the next post, but of course not withm quite the same air of smarmy superiority as you managed.

    I thought you explained your position quite thoroughly in the several paragraphs you posted in your previous comment. Evidently you don’t believe you explained yourself sufficiently. Fair enough.

    Now you have gone a step further and explained that you appreciate the fact that McCain will likely do exactly what he says he will do – appoint justices with the exact same viewpoints as Alito.

    So, I’ll stand by my earlier comment, thanks.

  136. 136
    zuzu's petals says:

    PS to all: I am typing at a pay-per minute computer that doesn’t have spellcheck, hence a general disclaimer for any speedily-typed typos.

  137. 137
    binzinerator says:

    The most mentally and physically exhausting couple in American politics double down

    I knew she would. It’s exactly what Bush does when he gets himself painted in a corner by reality.

  138. 138
    dana b says:

    Well, zuzu petals,
    You deserve whatever you get with Obama.

  139. 139
    Zuzu's Petals says:

    dana b Says:

    Well, zuzu petals,
    You deserve whatever you get with Obama.

    Well, dana b, as you seem quite willing to inflict John McCain on the rest of us, your air of smug superiority seems a little misplaced. Just my opinion.

  140. 140
    Brachiator says:

    dana b Says:

    We see her as having won 50% of the vote and most of the popular vote momentum since Ohio/Texas/Rhode Island. We see her as the most likely candidate to beat McCain and have serious doubts about Barack’s electoral vote strategy in November. The history of voting patterns is against him. Though we hope for the best outcome for him in November, we have little faith he can make up for the losses of Florida and Ohio. We see Hillary as the more qualified candidate to be president and as offering detailed programs that target our needs. Some of us like Barack as a second choice. Some of us (like me) don’t believe he is experienced enough in government to be qualified for the job….

    This may seem weird to you, but yes, I believe what the Clinton campaign does to try to advantage their candidate is pretty regular politics. I don’t find what she’s done or what McCain is doing right now as despicable. Pointing out your opponent’s weaknesses (or what you, at least believe are their weaknesses) is hardball politics, but it’s not evil or wrong, even when done in the primary. And pointing out your own electability versus your opponent’s questionable electability is also just politics, not nefarious conspiracy.

    And I think that the Clinton campaign was right to point out that Barack doesn’t have the experience of either Hillary or McCain.

    Great post!

    The only problem is that verbiage like “popular vote momentum” is just meaningless. Both Obama and Clinton have won late primaries. What is more real is Obama’s connection with Independents and younger voters, who represent the future of all political parties, vs Hillary’s appeal with older voters, many of whom will be dead in November 2008 and November 2012.

    By any rational measure, Obama and Senator Clinton have equivalent political experience. The only difference is that Senator Clinton has been caught numerous times lying about her accomplishments. She has also been caught red-handed trying to pass off her husband’s achievements as her own (e.g., Northern Ireland peace neg negotiations).

    Also, “electability” is not anything that Hillary can declare with any certainty. This can only be determined by voters. And non one knows whether Richard Scaife’s endorsement of Senator Clinton is a bit of political rope-a-dope designed to get the suckers in the Democratic Party to pick Clinton as the nominee.

    And when McCain declares that he really doesn’t know much about economics, despite his years in the Congress, you have to ask what his experience amounts to.

    And of course, the elephant in the room is Dubya, the least qualified president in the las 100 year. McCain and Bush are acting like conjoined twins, while Clinton is too stubborn to admit that Dubya played her for a fool over her Iraq vote.

    You seem to be confusing experience with mere tenure, and also avoiding the reasonable conclusion that Obama is superior to both Clinton and McCain in terms of wisdom and judgment.

  141. 141
    Zuzu's Petals says:

    Brachiator:

    Great post from you !

    I find it hard to fathom those who believe McCain “might harm the country and [their] own personal interests by following what he sincerely believes in” but plan to vote for him anyway.

    While they might self-righteously proclaim themselves as merely “undecided” because of the lack of “palatable alternatives” in 2008, the simple fact is that unless they plan to vote for the Democratic nominee, they will be de facto voting for McCain.

    Myself, I’m not an Obama true believer, and I wasn’t when I voted for him in the California primary. I can certainly see the argument for a Clinton candidacy, but feel less and less respect for her and her campaign every day.

    Still, I would vote for the Democratic nominee (okay, maybe not Leiberman etc.), even if he or she were not my first choice.

    Because I see the consequences of my vote.

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