I Guess The VP Negotiations Went Poorly

Do Hillary’s remarks today mean we can stop all the Hillary as VP nonsense and we don’t have to pretend she is like “OMG THE SMARTEST LIKE WOMAN IN THE WORLD” anymore?

Because along with ending her tedious “anything can happen” campaign that is now several months old, those other two would be welcome developments.

Consider this an open thread.

*** Update ***

Here is the apology video:

It starts with the Clintonian non-apology apology (Sorry if any of you rubes misunderstood me, but, gee, shucks, I was just tired from working so hard on your gas tax holiday! Plus, it is Friday and you know how I love my shots of Crown!), and then just devolves into babble and nonsense. Not to mention, she fails to apologize to Obama (I bet Michelle is just pissed right now).

One thing I do see, though, and have not seen this entire campaign- fear. You can see it in her eyes. She knows she has shit the bed with this one, and that is why she is reeling and babbling about holding Kennedy’s seat.

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188 replies
  1. 1

    I think Al Giordano’s report that SD’s already supporting Clinton are going to start endorsing Obama is the real nail in the coffin. He also reported that HRC asked for and was refused by VP slot by Obama himself.

    The HRC fundraiser warning about about a dearth of money for Obama is HRC gets left out was laughable on its face. Obama will continue to raise money at record rates without these bastards. It really is a sign to me that they still don’t understand what ran over the Clinton campaign.

    This is all just circus now and pretty much over with this report that at least 40 Clinton SD’s getting ready to bolt if she doesn’t play nice. I’m actually quite enjoying all these machinations from the Clinton camp.

  2. 2
    Gold Star for Robot Boy says:

    Don’t forget, just a few days ago Huckabee made a “joke” about Obama being shot.
    If this is a new meme – No way will Obama be president; he’ll be killed first! – well, then just shoot me.

  3. 3
    rob! says:

    Wouldn’t Obama be calling Hillary’s mob-like supporters’ bluff if he picked either Janet Napolitano or Kathleen Sebelius as his VP?

    Because then, if the Hillary crowd exploded in anger, it would be revealed that her crowd doesn’t give a crap about the VP being a woman at all—it was always just about Hillary, and Hillary only.

    I’m not suggesting he should pick either of them for that (relatively) trivial reason, but I think it would quell the notion that not picking Hillary = sexism.

  4. 4
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    we can stop all the Hillary as VP nonsense

    This is a perfect ending for her shitty campaign. She could have come in second place without all the divisive nonsense, without the wink and nod campaign to racist America, without “the kitchen sink.” Then she would have been a shoo-in for the VP nomination.

    But she didn’t do that. She eschewed good sensible strategy for slash and burn tactics every chance she got. She sacrificed the permanent on the altar of the immediate. She embodies the politics that Obama is running to end. Good bye and good riddance.

  5. 5
    Zifnab says:

    Wouldn’t Obama be calling Hillary’s mob-like supporters’ bluff if he picked either Janet Napolitano or Kathleen Sebelius as his VP?

    Some could see it as bare-knuckle politicking. Others could see it as choosing a progressive-minded, smart and capable person as a running mate.

    What happens if he goes with Bill Richardson? Should Clinton supporters push him to be lynched by the neck or thrown under the bus?

  6. 6
    Warren Terra says:

    No, no, she’s completely right. After all, if she has dropped out, and Obama rips off his mask revealing himself to be a lizardlike alien regrettably is unable to accept the nomination, people will be wandering around looking for a new candidate and have no idea who that might be. The delegates might just nominate the first 35-year-old natural-born American citizen they find. Heck, they might nominate McCain.

    I’m sure she really believes this. Suspending her campain would never do, people might completely forget she exists.

  7. 7
    Chris Johnson says:

    See my post in the previous blog entry.

    VP slot, hell.

    She should not be in public office, period. She should lose her senate position over this.

    I made an Eight Belles joke at her, and I’m a snarky poster on a blog and knew it was fucked up and didn’t mind.

    Huckabee made a hit-the-dirt joke at Obama, and it was in poor taste and was meant as a joke.

    Clinton is LAYING PLANS in hopes Barack is murdered. It’s not a joke at all, and this is different from my and Huckabee’s poor taste.

    I will not sit by and see that area of poor taste turned into a legitimate talking point, something for pundits to seriously debate. “Well, gee, IS it good for Clinton to continue campaigning, because you know as she suggests, in this wacky old country of ours, he’s really just ASKING to get killed, running-while-black and all! Or should we pretend he counts as a white man, and therefore doesn’t deserve to be gunned down as a matter of course?”

    WHAT. THE. FUCK???

    I thought countertop inspecting was classless and low.

    You are not going to convince me it’s acceptable discourse to legitimize murder for the purposes of setting odds and laying plans.

    How about for all intents and purposes, Barack Obama is running for an important job in civil service and will get to do that job (thankless job that it is) in the same safety that a normal person has? I mean, more public yes, but also a lot more security around him, and it balances out?

    For fuck’s sake. I wouldn’t even shoot Cheney. That would be murder, whatever he’s done.

  8. 8
    Warren Terra says:

    P.S. does this count as her version of “Will no-one rid me of this troublesome candidate”?

    Except, of course, that given her recent rhetoric regarding West Virgina, “candidate” might not be the word she’d use.

  9. 9
    Brachiator says:

    rob! Says:

    Wouldn’t Obama be calling Hillary’s mob-like supporters’ bluff if he picked either Janet Napolitano or Kathleen Sebelius as his VP?

    Because then, if the Hillary crowd exploded in anger, it would be revealed that her crowd doesn’t give a crap about the VP being a woman at all—-it was always just about Hillary, and Hillary only.

    Hillary’s most devoted acolytes fiercely identify with her. Note how many times she is referred to as “my candidate” in this opinion piece, and how “brilliant” and “inspirational she is (Don’t quit!)

    Quitting is for smokers, not my candidate, Hillary Rodham Clinton.

    “A quitter never wins and a winner never quits,” proclaimed Napoleon Hill, granddaddy of motivational writers. Hear, hear! I have been an ardent Hillary supporter since 1992, and am just as enthusiastic now as I was at the start of this primary process — albeit tired. While I am amazed at the “Quit Hillary!” bandwagons that roll around, it’s not mysterious. …

    We want our candidate to win too! …

    When pundits exclaim that Hillary should quit, they are telling millions of Americans to quit too. Weren’t primaries and conventions designed to let people have their say about their candidate? Isn’t a democracy about representation, not just party machinations? Why are the voices of Barack Obama supporters more important than Clinton’s? They are not. As long as there is a slim chance that HRC can win — even the slimmest — I want her to fight on!

    And it’s not because I hate Barack Obama. I just want her to be the president more than I want him to be president. She inspires me, she’s brilliant, she has been an advocate for women and children from the beginning of her career. I have long dreamed of an American leader saying, “If there is one message that echoes forth … let it be that human rights are women’s rights and women’s rights are human rights once and for all. Let us not forget that among those rights are the right to speak freely — and the right to be heard.” My candidate stood on a world stage and expressed my fondest dreams.

    It’s not about sexism, or even just about electing a woman president. It is about the apotheosis of the bestest girlfriend ever of the Clinton maenads. She is, after all, their Sun Queen.

  10. 10
    rob! says:

    Some could see it as bare-knuckle politicking. Others could see it as choosing a progressive-minded, smart and capable person as a running mate.

    i wasn’t saying he should pick either of them FOR that reason, just that it would have that effect if he did.

  11. 11
    dmsilev says:

    I’m sort of impressed, actually.

    The blowback was fast enough and intense enough that she felt obliged to offer a weasel-worded “apology” only a few hours later. Has she ever apologized, for anything, in such a short timescale?

    -dms

  12. 12
    rob! says:

    Hillary’s most devoted acolytes fiercely identify with her. Note how many times she is referred to as “my candidate” in this opinion piece, and how “brilliant” and “inspirational she is

    exactly! but they can maintain the illusion that its All About Sexism, until if/when they are faced with having to support Obama and a woman VP, or Hillary.

    i realize most would still side with Hillary, but it would remove that bullshit argument that voting against Hillary = sexism.

  13. 13
    Gold Star for Robot Boy says:

    The blowback was fast enough and intense enough that she felt obliged to offer a weasel-worded “apology” only a few hours later. Has she ever apologized, for anything, in such a short timescale?

    Credit Mickey Kaus’ Feiler Faster Thesis. From Kaus:

    The news cycle is much faster these days, thanks to 24-hour cable, the Web, a metastasized pundit caste constantly searching for new angles, etc. As a result, politics is able to move much faster, too, as our democracy learns to process more information in a shorter period and to process it comfortably at this faster pace. [emphasis in the original]

    It’s the only thing Kaus has got right in years.

  14. 14
    Bellicausi says:

    When Clinton ran for the senate, I remember watching her debate and cheering her on. By the end of last summer I was puzzled by Hillary Clinton’s voting record and series of decisions. The Iraq vote and her lack of courage as a junior senator just didn’t seem to make sense.
    If you are constantly triangulating, why make so many misjudgements that you constantly have to tack backwards?

    Then after a vacation with no access to cable tv but access to a computer, I had an epiphany. I came to the conclusion that Hillary Clinton was not very smart.

    So back from vacation, I see her in her first presidential debate and think phew!! What was I thinking? Nevertheless this has stayed with me. It’s not something I’ve posted before as I thought this comment would probably be troll-rated.

    I think if she wanted to be VP, the time for negotiation would have been February.

  15. 15
    Karmakin says:

    The HRC fundraiser warning about about a dearth of money for Obama is HRC gets left out was laughable on its face. Obama will continue to raise money at record rates without these bastards. It really is a sign to me that they still don’t understand what ran over the Clinton campaign.

    Utterly oblivious. They have no concept. They’re going to be on the outside looking in, and that’s fine and dandy really. In fact, by locking themselves out they’ll NEVER get back in.

  16. 16
    tattoosydney says:

    Hillary’s “apology”

    If it was “in any way offensive, I certainly had no intention of that whatsoever”….

    More lies.

  17. 17
    Kevin says:

    Hey, I just read on Talk Left that Obama supporters will be embarrassed if they pile on here, it wasn’t that dumb, so just move on. Oh, and she also said the same thing a few months ago, so clearly, this wasn’t that bad.

    Move along folks, clearly there is no story here.

  18. 18
    tattoosydney says:

    This does suggest that the idea (which I read somewhere over the last couple of days, but can’t attribute properly) that Obama has been sitting back, knowing that she is shooting herself in the foot, and will continue to do so, thus rendering herself unelectable, may have some merit…

    I thihnk that this time she missed her foot, and got herself right in the head…

  19. 19
    oh really says:

    Clinton is honored to hold Robert Kennedy’s senate seat.

    That’s funny, at this point I always think of her as filling in for Alfonse D’Amato.

  20. 20
    Justin says:

    You’re pretty vicious John, you get a thrill out of the notion that you see fear in her eyes, don’t you? God, you make me sick.

  21. 21
    Gold Star for Robot Boy says:

    Stop, Justin. You’re embarrassing yourself now.

  22. 22
    El Cid says:

    “I did nothing really wrong and I am deeply sorry that there exist people who think I did, and most of all I would like to express my profound regret that I have done something which inconvenienced me through the wrong interpretations of others.”

  23. 23
    Martin says:

    Well, I was born after RFK, but is her point that Obama == RFK, or that she is? RFK was still trailing in June but had the energy going forward.

    So, is she saying that RFK would have won in ’68 had he not been shot and therefore, she could as well in 2008?

    Of course, my understanding is that RFK probably would have lost the nomination regardless as she will this year. So just like arguing that Bill not getting the nod until June is reason for her to stay in (Bill was leading, like Obama, not trailing like Hillary, and therefore isn’t a rationale for her to stay in at all) isn’t attaching Obama to RFK the wrong analogy as well?

    Doesn’t excuse bringing it up as anyone under 50 is likely to fuck up the details and draw the wrong conclusion, nor did she present it in any reasonable fashion that anyone might draw the right conclusion, but it seems to me that had she appended a few sentences there, it wouldn’t at all be the wrong analogy (insensitive, but not wrong).

  24. 24
    Larime The Gimp says:

    Her Talk Lefters are taking turns exploding heads. They’re convinced this is a ploy by Obama to fuck her over at the May 31st meeting. I shit you not. Somehow, Obama made her say this and it’s all his fault.

    If you go over there, be careful – there’s grey matter all over the walls.

  25. 25

    Did she say anything about a stone in her shoe?

  26. 26
    Doug H. (Fausto no more) says:

    One thing I do see, though, and have not seen this entire campaign- fear. You can see it in her eyes. She knows she has shit the bed with this one, and that is why she is reeling and babbling about holding Kennedy’s seat.

    You can see it in her spoofs too. They’re flailing about like an epileptic on speed. She knows it, they know it. Wonk said it best: That sound you heard was someone getting dropped from the ‘short list’.

  27. 27
    vwcat says:

    Leave it to John C to make me laugh. I just came on here after seeing some of the news about Hillary and the headline just got me laughing.
    Seriously, how often do you think Bill and Hill have sat around talking about this very thing.
    “Well, you know what happened to Bobby and that anniversary is coming up about the time of the last primary….wouldn’t it be something…”
    Knowing Billary, they sit around laughing about it and hoping one of her Hard Working white voters takes care of this problem.

  28. 28
    passerby says:

    I guess using the potential potency of the n-word had no effect. So now they’re using fear tactics.

    The Bush/Clinton Cabal has no fear. No shame.

    Nota bene : Clintons are Scorched Earthers.

    T

    not to be trusted–los clintones y bushes

  29. 29
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    there’s grey matter all over the walls

    I seriously doubt that.

  30. 30
    rob! says:

    Justin, idiotic comments on other threads count, too. the above makes five, which means i give a $5 bill to Obama.

    Lincoln’s on the five, he’s from Illinois, so is Obama. i like the symbolism.

  31. 31
    Larime The Gimp says:

    I seriously doubt that.

    Heh, indeed.

    That sound you heard was someone getting dropped from the ‘short list’.

    From Short List to Short Bus in one day.

  32. 32
    Martin says:

    Just saw the apology video. I agree – I think she’s lost as to how to undo this mess. Ted’s situation just makes it 1000x harder to fix. What was probably an innocent enough gaffe is now going to dominate her coverage until PR. Even if the DNC meeting regarding FL/MI goes favorably for her, this probably will overshadow it.

  33. 33
    El Cid says:

    Just Some Fuckhead Says:

    there’s grey matter all over the walls

    I seriously doubt that.

    May 23rd, 2008 at 6:35 pm

    Ow, ow, ow, ow, ow, laughing too hard at this thread, ow, ow…

  34. 34
    Rick Taylor says:

    As I said earlier, I didn’t think her original remarks were a “new low”; more just a particularly bad gaffe. The remarks about Florida and Zimbabwe were more egregious in my mind, as their effect was obviously intended. There’s an article in Time magazine that shows this isn’t the first time she used this comparison.

    Still, I have to admit her apology does seem flat, lifeless. She looks exhausted to me; for the first time I feel a little sorry for her. Maybe that’s the fear you’re talking about.

  35. 35
    tattoosydney says:

    I know I am nut-picking but Hillaryis 44 is just insane:

    Oh, I see now we’ll have to live thru yet another manufactured controversy.

    I came home and heard Hill’s remarks and never even thought that’s what she was insinuating!

    MSNBC makes sure they have homo-boy Chris Cillizza & their ‘independent’ nubian queen house pet on to both blasting her for what a horrific thing it was to say.
    Clyburn undoubtedly will be rearing his ugly head. Fuck’em all!

    I am also at the point that I hate the Kennedy’s, you can’t even bring up the name without being harassed by the media!

    True Democrats, every one…

  36. 36
    Chris Johnson says:

    This is not blowback. This is Hiroshima, and this is why:

    This is not a ‘gaffe’ or misstatement, it’s what she has left for policy, and it’s really shocking to civilized people.

    She gave this as a reason for not dropping out of the race. What if (wink wink) my rival got assassinated?

    Presidential campaigns are VERY EXPENSIVE. I don’t know how much the Clinton campaign spends per day, but it’s gotta be staggering. If she’s down to citing the risk of Barack being murdered as her reason to stay actively campaigning, she is BETTING HER WALLET on this putative event, in a BIG BIG WAY.

    She is SPENDING MONEY in the hope her rival will be murdered, that being about all she thinks she’s got left.

    It’s not some far-out contingency theory- she suggests that it’s a fundamental reason to stay actively campaigning, unlike Edwards, unlike everybody else who’s dropped out. She is going to SPEND MONEY in big handfuls to position herself to take advantage of the hoped-for murder of Barack Obama.

    YES, hoped for.

    How much money per day would YOU be willing to spend to position yourself for an event you don’t want and doubt will happen?

    Hoped for.

  37. 37
    passerby says:

    This does suggest that the idea (which I read somewhere over the last couple of days, but can’t attribute properly) that Obama has been sitting back, knowing that she is shooting herself in the foot, and will continue to do so, thus rendering herself unelectable, may have some merit…

    I thihnk that this time she missed her foot, and got herself right in the head…
    May 23rd, 2008 at 6:28 pm

    I agree 100% with tattoosydney.

    I think the Obama camp is using the “give’em enough rope and they’ll hang themselves” approach.

    T

  38. 38
    flyerhawk says:

    TalkLeft is just downright amusing today.

    “Don’t you understand?!?! This isn’t a story!!!! LISTEN TO ME!!! IT ISN’T!!! IT ISN’T!!!!!”

  39. 39
    shera says:

    Just read a great explanation from a TNR reader to Michael Crowley:

    Get underneath a reporter’s empirical scrim for a minute. This is Freud by the numbers, Hillary’s id unbidden, her return of the repressed. Yes, obviously, she wouldn’t say this intentionally—who in God’s name would? She’s not that stupid, nor that malign. But she does very much want to be president—and her inappropriate desires got the best of her, and she blurted out her forbidden wish: that she gets the nomination somehow, someway, no matter how horrible the predicate.

    That’s what this was about. Does she consciously wish for Obama’s murder? Of course not. But if he were to be assassinated, wouldn’t somebody have to be nominated anyway? And isn’t the most logical person, in that tragic instance, her? That’s what she was saying: Stick around, anything can happen. Even a horrible thing can happen—and that horrible thing would result in my nomination.

    It’s really not that hard to figure out. Yes, it’s not conscious—but the depth of her ambitions, and her desires, are pathological and deeply creepy.

  40. 40
    Jeff says:

    dmsilev-

    Except she didn’t really apologize. Look closely at it.

  41. 41
    Wilfred says:

    She’s already said it!

    But this isn’t the first time she has made this same, offensive comparison. In March of this year:

    TIME: Can you envision a point at which–if the race stays this close–Democratic Party elders would step in and say, “This is now hurting the party and whoever will be the nominee in the fall”?

    CLINTON: No, I really can’t. I think people have short memories. Primary contests used to last a lot longer. We all remember the great tragedy of Bobby Kennedy being assassinated in June in L.A. My husband didn’t wrap up the nomination in 1992 until June. Having a primary contest go through June is nothing particularly unusual.

    Once might be a mistake, twice and it’s a tactic. An offensive, ugly tactic from a failed campaign whose only hope is to raise the possibility that something might happen to Obama. The willingness to say such a thing in a cheap effort to sway superdelegates is disgusting

    The comment from Barbinmd at Kos. The woman is unreal.

  42. 42
    ThymeZone says:

    Good news and bad news. What the original gaffe meant was, “I can’t understand why the Superdelegates are not listening to me.” That’s the good news: She really did not intend to bring assassination to the discussion.

    The bad news is, she can’t understand why the superdelegates are not listening to her. And that fact is the reason why she is looking like such a disaster. And why she really isn’t up to functioning at this level.

    As bad a train wreck as her campaign has become, what happens to us when the real world is an even worse train wreck and we need a strong president to handle it?

    Do we get tired, haggard Hillary, who blurts out emotional and grotesque gaffes for the world to hear?

  43. 43
    Alex says:

    Do Hillary’s remarks today mean we can stop all the Hillary as VP nonsense

    If talking about the future President getting assassinated doesn’t disqualify you to be VP, I don’t know what does.

  44. 44
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    Still, I have to admit her apology does seem flat, lifeless. She looks exhausted to me; for the first time I feel a little sorry for her. Maybe that’s the fear you’re talking about.

    Well of course she looks exhausted. They ambushed her in the checkout line at the grocery store while she’s trying to buy groceries for Bill and Chelsea.

  45. 45
    Chris Johnson says:

    …and this is what’s taken all the fun out of sick-ass snarking and blogposting.

    When Hillary Clinton is spending lots of money to stay very active in the campaign while actively hoping her opponent will be KILLED, there is no such thing as sick humor anymore.

    Actively hoping means, spending around THREE HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS A DAY in the sole hope your opponent will be murdered thus making it you against previous dropouts.

    THREE HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS A DAY.

    Don’t tell me she didn’t mean anything by it and doesn’t really want that, while spending three hundred thousand dollars a day in hopes that’s what’ll happen.

  46. 46
    ThymeZone says:

    Another way to say what my last post said:

    HRC said she was ready, experienced, prepared to govern and lead on Day One, take the 3 am phone call when feces hits fan.

    Today, she proved that she isn’t ready. And unfortunately, she isn’t going to be able to talk her way out of this one. She never was ready, she just thought that she could be ready by asserting that she was ready.

  47. 47
    Ted says:

    You’re pretty vicious John, you get a thrill out of the notion that you see fear in her eyes, don’t you? God, you make me sick.

    It’s called politics, you wimp. It isn’t for the fickle. For crying out loud, you think Hillary and Bill don’t have the collective balls to handle this stuff? You really shouldn’t feel so sorry for Bulletproof Bill and Hill. Their expressions of victimhood and pleas for sympathy are usually done right before they start zapping you with force lightning.

  48. 48
    Jess says:

    She looks exhausted.

    I hate what she’s doing, but I’m mostly feeling regret and pity. When Obama had to deal with Wright Redux, I thought at the time that many of us were having a similar experience with the Clintons. I still respect the good things they’ve done, and I’m still willing to believe that Bill is a great, albeit flawed, human being, but I’m disillusioned and truly sad about Hilary’s turn to the dark side. Would we be so harsh now if we hadn’t invested at least some hope in her as the first strong female presidential candidate? It really is like a Greek tragedy, as someone pointed out on an earlier thread.

  49. 49
    ThymeZone says:

    They ambushed her in the checkout line at the grocery store while she’s trying to buy groceries for Bill and Chelsea.

    Win.

  50. 50
    nightjar says:

    The fact she said before negates the possibility it was just one those blurbs from the sub-concious mind that was not previously thought out. What she is saying is the longer she hangs in the race, and if Obama were to get killed, she’d be a cinch to get the nom. And if she dropped out, then any old inferior dem might have a shot. Sleazy, and that’s no longer a surprise from HRC.

  51. 51
    nightjar says:

    Jess Says:

    She looks exhausted.

    That, or a candid moment of self disgust.

  52. 52
    ThymeZone says:

    Prediction time:

    (Disclaimer, I dont think Clinton meant to invoke assassination as a basis for her decision to stay in, I think she just meant to invoke June, and picked a godawful way to do it):

    This is it, her campaign is totally over, she cannot recover from this. The end.

    And unless she figures out a way to do it very gracefully, she is going to end up seriously damaged long term, by this gaffe.

    Cue the fat lady, turn out the lights, the party is over.

  53. 53
    Dennis - SGMM says:

    She did the right thing inadvertently, she just shot her lamed campaign through the head. Hillary has made herself the downer cow of the Democratic party.

  54. 54
    Queixada says:

    She blamed sniper-gate on fatigue too.
    Maybe she’s just too tired to be POTUS.

  55. 55
    w vincentz says:

    Hillary went WAY WAY over the line. In the past, her excuses and tactics were at least somewhat explainable or perhaps possible. This time, justifying her continuing campaign by invoking the assassination of RFK is beyond the beyond.
    FUCK YOU!! HILLARY. YOU’VE LOST IT!
    Your own words are evidence of your insanity!

  56. 56
    ThymeZone says:

    Hillary has made herself the downer cow of the Democratic party.

    Great, great line.

  57. 57
    SamFromUtah says:

    This is it, her campaign is totally over, she cannot recover from this.

    Every time somebody says this, it doubles her resolve.

    Not trying to pick a fight with you, I just won’t believe she’s out until she says something like “I’m done, finished, packing up, and moving to a mountaintop in Nepal to reflect on my life. Leave me alone. Really! Stop. I’m out of here.” etc.

  58. 58
    Chris Johnson says:

    I have no pity. None.

    Not like she’s wishing and hoping someone is going to murder Barack Obama. Oh no no no. She does not hope someone murders Obama.

    She’s just keeping the campaign going so people don’t turn to someone like Edwards when someone murders Barack Obama. Woops, that should be ‘if’. Or better yet, that should be, nobody would ever do such a thing.

    She has FAITH in the inherent civilizedness of the American people. She knows nobody will murder her rival, that being the only shot she has left. So it’s just a whim really, a thing of no matter. She’s just keeping the campaign going.

    AT THREE HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS A DAY.

    ‘in case’.

  59. 59
    Gold Star for Robot Boy says:

    This is it, her campaign is totally over, she cannot recover from this. The end.

    Agree.
    This incidents provides cover for many HRC supporters to get off the bus without looking like idiots.
    They might’ve been unhappy with her weeks before this, but there was no way to switch to Obama without making waves.
    Now, though, they can point the RFK comments, make a somber statement about party unity and clear out.

  60. 60
    ThymeZone says:

    Every time somebody says this, it doubles her resolve.

    True, true, but at this point, she has become a caricature of herself. The media are done with her now. And the superdelegates are done with her now.

    What she thinks stopped being relevant when she uttered the offending words. That’s what I’m thinkin.

  61. 61
    SamFromUtah says:

    That’s what I’m thinkin.

    Fair enough. We’ll see how it shakes out.

  62. 62

    It starts with the Clintonian non-apology apology (Sorry if any of you rubes misunderstood me, but, gee, shucks, I was just tired from working so hard on your gas tax holiday

    Exactly. She sorry if anyone was offended. She also sorry that she’s getting a beatdown over this, but she’s not sorry she said it.

    BTW – I don’t think I’ve read her admitting she personally screwed up her Irak War vote. She’s mubbled around the edges like “she’s sorry Bush is a screw-up” Or “she’s sorry she can’t have her vote back.”

    But she does not admit error.

  63. 63
    Chris Johnson says:

    http://wapedia.mobi/en/Incitement

    The inciter must intend the others to engage in the behaviour constituting the offence, including any consequences which may result, and must know or believe (or possibly suspect) that those others will have the relevant mens rea.

    But of course Clinton had no intention of any others engaging in this behavior she’s reminded us happened in 1968, nor did she mean anything by reminding her own supporters in a public statement that she would continue to hang in there and not quit just in case someone DID engage in that behavior- because who knows what might happen, and what if it did turn out to be possible for her to win just in case someone DID engage in the behavior she’s reminded us happened before? Reminded us twice, mind you?

    Good lord no.

    She’s spending three hundred thousand dollars a day for KICKS.

  64. 64
    JL says:

    Since Hillary has used the assassination line before, could this be her new strategy? Vote for me because I’m less likely to be shot? It’s sick and it’s unfortunate that some of her supporters don’t understand it.

  65. 65
    Camper Joe says:

    Between this and the MI/FL = slavery & women’s suffrage crap, can we officially say that HRC has jumped the shark?

  66. 66

    Hillary Clinton is going to leave this race with a well-earned reputation of being a bitter, hateful, racist-enabling crank who prays that her political opponents get killed.

    She, and her legacy, are toast.

    Keith Olbermann should be in fine form tonight.

  67. 67
    Pooh says:

    Please someone to be reposting the actblue link for Obama tipjar.

  68. 68
    Krista says:

    Larime The Gimp Says:

    I seriously doubt that.

    Heh, indeed.

    That sound you heard was someone getting dropped from the ‘short list’.

    From Short List to Short Bus in one day.

    This whole thread is full of win.

  69. 69
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    Hillary Clinton is going to leave this race with a well-earned reputation of being a bitter, hateful, racist-enabling crank who prays that her political opponents get killed.

    Or as Squeaky Fromme.

  70. 70
    passerby says:

    Scorched Earther Hillary Clinton,

    (and Bill and George and Dick et alia)

  71. 71
    merrinc says:

    She looks exhausted.

    And I might cut her some slack for that if I hadn’t seen Obama at a town hall in NC last month, seen him from 20 feet away, and saw the utter exhaustion etched on his face.

    They’re both exhausted because this primary has gone on farther longer than it should because one of the candidates has stayed in the race long after it became mathematically impossible for her to win the nomination.

    So cry me a fucking river.

  72. 72
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    I feel sorry for our internet minders in the Secret Service. They are having to do grueling background checks on millions of anonymous blog commenters while this assasination nonsense is bandied about.

  73. 73
    Warren Terra says:

    Pooh Says:

    Please someone to be reposting the actblue link for Obama tipjar.

    Your wish is my command

  74. 74
    PaulB says:

    Asking (and not for the first time): what the hell are the rest of the super delegates waiting for?

  75. 75
    nightjar says:

    From No Quarter you misogynist impalers.

    Be prepared to be hoodwinked and bamboozled, for the Obamabots will penetrate and impale you if you do not yield to their misogynistic pressure. They will also misconstrue your statements.

  76. 76
    Paul says:

    Even though I have learned the hard way the idea of “Clinton Derangement Syndrome” these last few months, I am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. That is to say, she chose RFK as an indication of a primary fight that lasted until June.

    That said, Sen. Clinton’s example is one of the stupidest things she might have said. She may not have intended to say “I’m in it just in case if someone takes a shot at Obama, I’ll be fired up, ready to go.”, but its sure one way to read her comment.

  77. 77
    KRK says:

    The Commander Guy Says:

    BTW – I don’t think I’ve read her admitting she personally screwed up her Irak War vote. She’s mubbled around the edges like “she’s sorry Bush is a screw-up” Or “she’s sorry she can’t have her vote back.”

    Actually, what she has said is, if the Iraq War vote is so important to you or you want to hear someone apologize for voting in favor of the AUMF, there are other people to vote for.

    Jed Report has the video.

    So basically, back in February she dared people not to vote for her if they thought the whole Iraq War thing was such a big deal. Didn’t quite work out like she expected.

  78. 78
    Texas Dem says:

    I can’t help but think of Henry II and Thomas Becket (or if you saw the film, Peter O’Toole and Richard Burton). The line that triggered Becket’s murder still echoes through history: “Will no one rid me of this troublesome priest?”

    Hillary had better pray nothing happens to Obama. The speculation that will follow such a tragic event will make the flap over Vince Foster pale by comparison.

  79. 79
    Chris Johnson says:

    People don’t have to become sociopathic monsters wishing the convenient deaths of their big rivals just because they’re TIRED.

    You could get pissy, and curse at the reporter and be all cranky.

    Or be overemotional, and cry, and repeatedly quit the race and change your mind about it.

    Or forget what you’re saying, and not be able to follow conversations.

    Or FALL ASLEEP.

    Choosing to spend $300,000 a *day* in hopes someone will murder your opponent is not something people do when they miss their nap.

    You don’t get some sleep, wake up and go, “OH HEY! Darn it, what was I doing spending $300,000 a day in the sole hope somebody like maybe one of my crazier supporters will kill my rival? What was I thinking?? Woopsy! Maybe now that I’ve had some sleep, I’ll resign, and then if anything crazy happens I’ll do what I can to jump back into the limelight, how’s that?”

    She can be ‘tired’ as an excuse for REVEALING her actual mathematics of the campaign- the ‘Great Oz’ moment where we see a glimpse of what’s really in her head.

    But that’s not just in her head when she’s tired. She’s keeping this going 24/7. She only TOLD you her reason when she was tired.

    No pity. No mercy.

  80. 80
    KRK says:

    Obamabots will penetrate and impale you if you do not yield

    One thing’s for certain, that NoQ has some creepy sexual issues.

  81. 81
    passerby says:

    merrinc, thank you for the testimonial.

    They’re both exhausted because this primary has gone on farther longer than it should because one of the candidates has stayed in the race long after it became mathematically impossible for her to win the nomination.

    I’ve seen pictures of both candidates looking plum worn out.

    But let us notice that Obama’s camp doesn’t degrade.

    T

  82. 82
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    That said, Sen. Clinton’s example is one of the stupidest things she might have said. She may not have intended to say “I’m in it just in case if someone takes a shot at Obama, I’ll be fired up, ready to go.”, but its sure one way to read her comment.

    Exactly. It’s unfortunate that anyone would interpret her comment in the worse possible way. It wouldn’t surprise me a bit if this winds up making her very bitter and she clings to guns and religion as a result. Goose, gander, all that.

  83. 83
    rob! says:

    what the hell are the rest of the super delegates waiting for?

    9 am, June 4.

  84. 84
    The Moar You Know says:

    Be prepared to be hoodwinked and bamboozled, for the Obamabots will penetrate and impale you if you do not yield to their misogynistic pressure. They will also misconstrue your statements.

    Calling me a rapist and a liar is not a terribly effective method of persuading me towards their favorite candidate.

  85. 85
    w vincentz says:

    I can’t wait to hear Hagee and Parsley chime in on this. Did God do this to her for all the other bullshit she’s previously done? She certainly deserves this, as did the Jews getting hunted by Hitler, and the folks in New Orleans for the gay pride parade when the wrath of Katrina hit them.
    What the fuck did the folks in Windsor, Colorado do to get hit by a mile wide tornado? It’s understandable that the folks in California deserve their wild fires for electing Arnold and legalizing gay unions. Expect a huge earthquake there soon.
    I’ll guess that Hillary really pissed God off and He allowed Satan to put those evil assassination words about RFK into her mouth. Yup! It was Satan’s fault.
    What will McIdiot say?

  86. 86
    anonymous 37 says:

    Dennis – SGMM Says> She did the right thing inadvertently, she just shot her lamed campaign through the head. Hillary has made herself the downer cow of the Democratic party.

    Sexist.

  87. 87
    D-Chance. says:

    Do Hillary’s remarks today mean… we don’t have to pretend she is like “OMG THE SMARTEST LIKE WOMAN IN THE WORLD” anymore?

    Well, you’re only 17 years behind the curve. Limbaugh’s been snarking the “smartest woman in the world” line since 1991.

    And, btw… Hillary for veep? Because you never know when she might be needed to fill in for Number One. Someone noted that I “darkly implied” this months ago. Now, she’s out-and-out saying it. And some of you still want her to be there, in that position, a lifetime of aspirations just a heartbeat away from reality? Really, now…

  88. 88
    passerby says:

    Alex says:

    if talking about the future President getting assassinated doesn’t disqualify you to be VP, I don’t know what does

    Yes, Obama already has a target on his back, he’s colored and he would pull $$ away from the MIC.

    How stupid would it be to consider Hillary as VP.

    Is it not obvious?!?

    How could any serious pundit propose such a thing???

    T

  89. 89
    ThymeZone says:

    Olbermann, Special Comment.

    Ouch. Goodbye Hillary. It wasn’t fun.

    Don’t ever get Olbermann pissed off at you.

    Whoo-ee, dogies. If you didn’t see Keith’s comment, it re-airs in an hour or two. It’s worth seeing just for its theatrical value, it’s world class smackdown.

    Shut down the website, Hillary.

  90. 90

    Now will Hillary Clinton reject and denounce Hillary Clinton?

  91. 91
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    Wow.. my eyebrows caught on fire watching Keith O.

  92. 92
    betamu says:

    What theater this is! All of this is just boggling my mind.

    I watched most of the long video and was really struck by her demeanor, especially when “answering” the question about why SHE thought people were asking her to drop out. She exclaims over and over about, saying she has absolutely no idea why some people might think she should..it is a very curious idea to her. I’ve seen her speak with such conviction, but during this explanation, I didn’t believe her.

    Her timing is bad, too… I wanted the pastor Hagee story to be around a FEW days…this weekend will be all about that interview and “apology”.

    Something else, too…that apology sure seemed to something like “gosh, I can’t believe anyone was offended or that I meant to piss on the Kennedy’s…they’re an institution! But, what’s done is done…spilled milk and all that…so lets move together into the future that I will win for you.”

    …and scene….

  93. 93
    w vincentz says:

    D-Chance,
    I think she will go forward to a future elected office.
    Perhaps she’ll buy her way into the positon of “Dog Catcher” in he home town.
    I hope that on her first day on the job, she meets up with a very angry pit bull, or a rotweiller, or doberman… or all three at once.
    And they bite the living shit out of her.

  94. 94
    Rick Taylor says:

    Even though I have learned the hard way the idea of “Clinton Derangement Syndrome” these last few months, I am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. That is to say, she chose RFK as an indication of a primary fight that lasted until June.

    I agree. And I still think Huckabee’s joke that someone was pointing a gun at Obama was worse, as it was clearly intentional. But then her apology could have shown a little more energy.

    At any rate, she’s said enough things that we’re completely intentional that it doesn’t matter(Florida 2000, Zimbabwe, I won the popular vote, people won’t consider the nominee legitimate, hard working class white voters support me), I’ll take this to the convention). I personally think some may have over-reacted to this most recent gaffe but it’s easy to see why; our nerves are frayed reeling from one outrageous statement after another. Maybe the reaction to this most recent one will curb her destructive momentum; she did seem different in that video.

  95. 95
    Conservatively Liberal says:

    Olbermann ripped her royally, and I agree with him completely. You can clearly see that he was pissed at her ‘slip’.

  96. 96
    bwaage says:

    Can someone post a link to the Olbermann comment when one surfaces? I’m too cheap to have cable.

  97. 97
    Jorge says:

    After reading Obama’s books, I knew that if a mixed-race kid from a broken home with a name like Barrack Obama could still be that optimistic and sympathetic to other people, he was a special, special man.

    Character is what distinguishes these two people. Obama is cut from a better, hardier cloth. And this isn’t messianic worship – this is buy-in. Obama might still turn out to be as bad a president as Jimmy Carter. But like Carter, you can’t question the purity of his motives for living a life of public service.

  98. 98
    Chris Johnson says:

    Yeah, me too. Olbermann link plz.

  99. 99
    Notorious P.A.T. says:

    They’re both exhausted because this primary has gone on farther longer than it should because one of the candidates has stayed in the race long after it became mathematically impossible for her to win the nomination.

    So cry me a fucking river.

    Well, it’s not like the Republican nominee is a beaten-up, tired old man, so that if the Democratic nominee were allowed to get some rest they would have a big advantage in the fall. . .

  100. 100
    rob! says:

    jeebus, Hillary extending her campaign this far MIGHT JUST BE the exact thing we all needed.

    now her campaign going down in flames can be blamed on no one but herself. Obama can sit back, shake his head, and move on to the general campaign.

    she didn’t get pushed out, she DID IT TO HERSELF.

  101. 101
    ghost poet says:

    The Moar You Know Says:

    Be prepared to be hoodwinked and bamboozled, for the Obamabots will penetrate and impale you if you do not yield to their misogynistic pressure. They will also misconstrue your statements.

    Calling me a rapist and a liar is not a terribly effective method of persuading me towards their favorite candidate.

    yeah, and it’s pretty hard to misconstrue that statement either. sounds a little like my sister the radical feminist who is an ardent follower of Andrea Dworkin, to her everything is about how very evil the act of penetration is.

  102. 102
    Ted says:

    Character is what distinguishes these two people. Obama is cut from a better, hardier cloth.

    And he’s not faking it either. Take a look at the videos of the dinners he does with donor “sweepstakes” winners (donors picked at random to have dinner with him). Just observe the questions he asks and doesn’t ask; the guy is quite genuine. In the “off-the-cuff” realm, he makes Hillary Clinton look like George Bush.

  103. 103
    Conservatively Liberal says:

    Another nugget from the turd mine that Hillaryis44 runs:

    I think that the Obama Staff should have let that comment slide. I don’t think it is good to be having discussion on Assassination of Presidental Candidates in the Media and on the Blogs.

    There are people out there that just don’t need to hear that.

    Sick.

  104. 104
    Texas Dem says:

    I can’t wait until the writers at Law and Order get their hands on this. A charismatic candidate for governor is murdered and the trail eventually leads to the wife of popular ex-governor who is about to run for president. Who do you suppose should play the Hillary character? I vote for Meryl Streep.

  105. 105
    Ted says:

    I still can’t help feeling sorry for Hillary. A lot of you are lucky and don’t, but it’s one of my weaknesses.

  106. 106
    Krista says:

    yeah, and it’s pretty hard to misconstrue that statement either. sounds a little like my sister the radical feminist who is an ardent follower of Andrea Dworkin, to her everything is about how very evil the act of penetration is.

    Pardon me, and no offense meant to your sister, but that’s seriously fucked up.

  107. 107
    Notorious P.A.T. says:

    Andrea Dworkin

    . . . shudder. . .

  108. 108
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    I still can’t help feeling sorry for Hillary. A lot of you are lucky and don’t, but it’s one of my weaknesses.

    Put some lipstick on and make one of those “Leave Hillary Alone!” youtubes.

  109. 109
    Warren Terra says:

    Conservatively Liberal Says:

    Another nugget from the turd mine that Hillaryis44 runs:

    I think that the Obama Staff should have let that comment slide. I don’t think it is good to be having discussion on Assassination of Presidental Candidates in the Media and on the Blogs.

    There are people out there that just don’t need to hear that.

    An instant classic. Obviously, the problem is that there are people complaining about Clinton raising the topic of assassination. After all, no-one made much fuss the first time she implied Obama might be killed like RFK was, and look: no-one assassinated anyone! Because no-one complained that time! QED!

  110. 110
    Ted says:

    Put some lipstick on and make one of those “Leave Hillary Alone!” youtubes.

    lol. No, you misunderstand. I don’t want this to stop and she be left alone. It’s more like feeling sorry for a wounded animal that isn’t going to survive.

    But were I a better performer, that would make a hilarious vid.

  111. 111
    Paul says:

    I don’t have cable, so I had to read Olbermann’s comment on the MSNBC website:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24797758/

    I can feel the anger behind the written words.

  112. 112
    mr. whipple says:

    no one could have predicted a downside to running around the country saying all kinds of unhinged shit.

    i mean, what’s the harm?

  113. 113
    Notorious P.A.T. says:

    I feel sorry for her, too. But I feel a hell of a lot more sorry for the people killed, maimed, wounded, displaced, kidnapped, starved, or terrorized by the US invasion of Iraq.

  114. 114
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    But were I a better performer, that would make a hilarious vid.

    Someone already did it

  115. 115
    Ted says:

    I don’t have cable, so I had to read Olbermann’s comment on the MSNBC website:

    They’ll of course have video of it on their site soon as well.

    But I feel a hell of a lot more sorry for the people killed, maimed, wounded, displaced, kidnapped, starved, or terrorized by the US invasion of Iraq.

    Yup, and remembering that usually clears up the sympathy instantly.

  116. 116
    ThatLeftTurnInABQ says:

    SamFromUtah Says:

    This is it, her campaign is totally over, she cannot recover from this.

    Every time somebody says this, it doubles her resolve.

    Not trying to pick a fight with you, I just won’t believe she’s out until she says something like “I’m done, finished, packing up, and moving to a mountaintop in Nepal to reflect on my life. Leave me alone. Really! Stop. I’m out of here.” etc.

    You’ll know it’s really over when she grows a beard and puts on a few pounds like Al Gore.

  117. 117
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    It’s more like feeling sorry for a wounded animal that isn’t going to survive.

    What if the animal had rabies and was attacking everyone around it?

  118. 118
    Paul says:

    Krista Says:

    yeah, and it’s pretty hard to misconstrue that statement either. sounds a little like my sister the radical feminist who is an ardent follower of Andrea Dworkin, to her everything is about how very evil the act of penetration is.

    Pardon me, and no offense meant to your sister, but that’s seriously fucked up.

    :Shudder: I was once subjected to an explication of the theory that “all sexual penetration is rape” by a disciple of Ms. Dworkin’s.

    It’s like watching a bad movie–its time of your life you never get back, and try as hard as you can, its a meme that you cannot get out of your head.

  119. 119
    Notorious P.A.T. says:

    :Shudder: I was once subjected to an explication of the theory that “all sexual penetration is rape” by a disciple of Ms. Dworkin’s.

    What an obscene denigration of the experiences of –actual– rape victims. Disgusting.

  120. 120
    The Moar You Know says:

    Paul Says:

    Krista Says:

    yeah, and it’s pretty hard to misconstrue that statement either. sounds a little like my sister the radical feminist who is an ardent follower of Andrea Dworkin, to her everything is about how very evil the act of penetration is.

    Pardon me, and no offense meant to your sister, but that’s seriously fucked up.

    :Shudder: I was once subjected to an explication of the theory that “all sexual penetration is rape” by a disciple of Ms. Dworkin’s.

    It’s like watching a bad movie—its time of your life you never get back, and try as hard as you can, its a meme that you cannot get out of your head.

    Seconded. They taught this horseshit at UC Santa Cruz when I went there. I was a very happy man the day my girlfriend was forced out of her women’s studies class for the crime of being blonde, white, and pretty.

    I’d consider myself a feminist, but damn, you can take anything too far.

  121. 121
    SamFromUtah says:

    They taught this horseshit at UC Santa Cruz when I went there. I was a very happy man the day my girlfriend was forced out of her women’s studies class for the crime of being blonde, white, and pretty.

    Was this in the 1980s? I went to a different California school, but Dworkin and Mary Daly were all the rage among the women’s studies set at the time, and I heard a lot of this crap too – what happened to your girlfriend could easily have happened on my campus.

    My best friend’s girlfriend bought into it enough that she dumped him simply for being male and, therefore, a rapist. She was a pitiable creature because she tried really hard after that to be a lesbian out of ideological purity and just wasn’t into it.

  122. 122
    Warren Terra says:

    Requested a couple of times above, here is Keith Olberman’s Special Comment on Clinton’s RFK assassination comments:
    part 1 and part 2

  123. 123
    JasonF says:

    I’m still making my way through all the comments in this thread and the last one, so apologies if this has been discussed already, but I’m actually willing to give Senator Clinton some slack on this one.

    Understand, I’m a firm supporter of Senator Obama and have been since he was my State Senator ten years ago. I don’t support her candidacy and think she should have dropped out months ago.

    That said, I don’t think her point was “Golly, I’d better stay in the race just in case Senator Obama gets killed.” If nothing else, should Senator Obama be assassinated (God forbid), the Democratic Party is going to name her as their nominee whether she’s officially still in the race or not. It’s not going to be “Oh my God! Senator Obama is dead and Senator Clinton conceded in late May. I guess we’ll have to let the Republiicans have the White House for anaother four years. Oh well.”

    Clearly, the point she was trying to make was “historically, primaries have gone on into June, so it’s no big deal that I’m dragging this one on into June.” My guess is that the assassination of Senator Kennedy looms large in her consciousness. She was 20 and politically active in that year’s Democratic primaries — I’m sure the date “June 6, 1968” is as familiar to her as “July 4, 1776.” So when she thinks “Primaries continuing until June,” it doesn’t surprise me that her mind immediately turns to the Robert Kennedy assassination.

    That said, anybody who wants to be the President should be smart enough not to say something like that.

    And, perhaps more importantly, her analogy ignores the fact that Robert Kennedy didn’t declare his candidacy until March 1968. This wasn’t a June primary that was the culmination of over a year of campaigning (as is the case in 2008). This was a June primary scant months after the race started.

    Similarly, while it’s technically true that her husband didn’t clinch his nomination until June 1992, the reality is that everyone (with the exception of rival candidate Jerry Brown) had conceded that Bill Clinton would be the nominee by March 1992 — about 2 months after the primary season started.

    So for me, the problem isn’t just that Senator Clinton made a stupid and tactless comment (and I’m willing to concede that’s all it was, not a subtle plea for violence). The real problem is that Senator Clinton is once again playing fast and loose with the facts to try to snow everyone into signing on to her warped view of reality.

  124. 124
    Jess says:

    I’d consider myself a feminist, but damn, you can take anything too far.

    Sadly, it’s the important and righteous causes that attract the most self-important, self-righteous idiots. It’s just the nature of things.

  125. 125
    Warren Terra says:

    P.S. Darn, I realize too late I just missed a fantastic opportunity to RickRoll some folks … or did I miss the opportunity?

  126. 126
    Tzal says:

    From TalkLeft:

    I’ve been in court all afternoon and just coming in now to all the hysteria. All I’ll say is Hillary is being treated unfairly here. The media and blog commenters are engaging in character assassination.

    People are fucking crazy.

  127. 127
    The Moar You Know says:

    Was this in the 1980s? I went to a different California school, but Dworkin and Mary Daly were all the rage among the women’s studies set at the time, and I heard a lot of this crap too – what happened to your girlfriend could easily have happened on my campus.

    Bingo. 1988.

  128. 128
    Chris Johnson says:

    Thank you, Mr. Olbermann.

  129. 129
  130. 130
    Rick Taylor says:

    That said, I don’t think her point was “Golly, I’d better stay in the race just in case Senator Obama gets killed.”

    I basically agree with you, but read Kieth Olberman’s take down and the rude pundit’s deconstruction for more context. This was the fourth time she’d made this sort of remark, and it didn’t even make sense since in 1968 the primary calendar was much different than it is now and only 13 states had had their primary by then. Under the kindest interpretation, which I’m willing to grant, it was a bizarre statement, perhaps the result of fatigue, and it warranted a better apology than the non-apology she gave.

  131. 131
    cleek says:

    h44

    As Rachel Maddow (’Ghoulish’ she called it before sequeing into a bit about how this must disqualify all talk of a joint ticket) Eugene Robinson and that other hideous bitch had excrement spewing from their mouths Harwood just interrupted and said, “Guys, you’re totally wrong.
    She was emphasizing JUNE. To suggest otherwise is to assume something about Hillary Clinton I don’t believe.”
    Or words to that effect.

    Does it matter? No. These cable c*ntbags will play their little fucking games & run with it constantly anyway. So what, they’ve done much worse.

    but this is a pro-Hillary site, so that can’t be sexism.

    i’m so confused.

    and while we’re talking sexism, here’s my favorite idjit, conFloyd:

    I am not giving any money to the party, Hillary gets everything I can afford. I think a civil war is going on right now. The idiots know they have to count the votes and that puts Bambi in danger of losing the nomination!! Ha! Ha! Howie, sometimes what goes around comes around!

    “Bambi” is obviously a favorite of the Hillary crowd. and it’s equally obviously a way to insinuate that Obama is a wimpy effeminate man-child. someone’s going to have to explain to me how that’s not an example of cynically playing on “attitudes, conditions, or behaviors that promote stereotyping of social roles based on gender” (aka “sexism“)

  132. 132
    SamFromUtah says:

    Sadly, it’s the important and righteous causes that attract the most self-important, self-righteous idiots.

    Yes. I’ve seen a lot of women become zealots from taking women’s studies classes, but most of them calm down after a year or two, more self-aware and empowered than when they started out but no longer showing such fervor. Being male I don’t have great insight into the zeal part, but I figured it was because it was the first time many of them had encountered any kind of teaching that treated being female specifically as a positive and powerful thing. That must be some heady stuff, and the good it does is well worth the annoyance that temporary enthusiasm causes. I mean, a lot of college sophomores are gung-ho about something, and feminism is a constructive thing to pick.

    The self-important, self-righteous idiots, IMO, were the ones who took the ideology so seriously that they ended up alienating their friends along with their enemies. Those, and the people who sensed they could gain some social power and disciples through exploiting it.

    Politics has the same effect on a lot of people, for the same kind of reasons.

  133. 133
    Jess says:

    That said, I don’t think her point was “Golly, I’d better stay in the race just in case Senator Obama gets killed.”

    I’m thinking it was lame attempt to align herself with another political martyr, and wasn’t about Obama at all. And like many self-absorbed perpetual martyrs, she is completely oblivious to how she might be causing others harm. I’ve seen others of her ilk (such as my mother, I’m sorry to say) do similar things not out of sociopathic malice, but out of a childish, self-absorbed need to be the one and only victim in the game. I thinks she’s probably genuinely shocked at the blowback, but won’t be able to snap out of it and take responsibility for what she implied any time soon.

  134. 134
    KRK says:

    Tzal Says:

    From TalkLeft:

    I’ve been in court all afternoon and just coming in now to all the hysteria. All I’ll say is Hillary is being treated unfairly here.

    Couldn’t Merritt set up a macro that would make such posts even in her absence? The output doesn’t seem to change whatever the input.

  135. 135
    Dreggas says:

    ThatLeftTurnInABQ Says:

    You’ll know it’s really over when she grows a beard and puts on a few pounds like Al Gore The Unibomber.

    Fixed.

  136. 136
    mrmobi says:

    …but I’m actually willing to give Senator Clinton some slack on this one.

    Ummm, me too. I watched the video, and I’m not seeing what everyone is so upset about. She was talking about the length of the primary campaign, not about assassination.

    Apparently, RFK Jr., also thinks this is much ado about nothing.

    That said, TZ is correct, we have see the last gasp of her campaign, I believe.

    To me, this was a very poor choice of historical example, nothing more.

    The question is, why would Obama want someone as his running mate who is prone to saying idiotic things on the campaign trail?

  137. 137
    Mike B. says:

    Just Some Fuckhead Says:

    Still, I have to admit her apology does seem flat, lifeless. She looks exhausted to me; for the first time I feel a little sorry for her. Maybe that’s the fear you’re talking about.

    Well of course she looks exhausted. They ambushed her in the checkout line at the grocery store while she’s trying to buy groceries for Bill and Chelsea.

    Oh, my god. This is the funniest thing I’ve read about the whole business!

  138. 138
    El Cid says:

    Yeah, she was just emphasizing “June” in citing the 1968 nomination fight, because when everyone thinks about the 1968 Democratic nomination struggle the first thing to mind is “June” and “nothing particularly unusual” and everything’s just fine.

    Sure.

    They don’t think about LBJ not running due to the Vietnam War, or Humphrey facing not one but two anti-war challengers in McCarthy and RFK, or that RFK was killed after winning the California primary, or that there was a police riot at the convention in which supporters of anti-war candidates were beaten on live TV, or that Humphrey was handed the nomination without having entered a single primary…

    …or that the Democratic candidate after the end of this horrific process, Hubert Humphrey, then lost to Richard Nixon

    No, no, they don’t think about any of that.

    They just think about “June”.

  139. 139
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    They don’t think about LBJ not running due to the Vietnam War, or Humphrey facing not one but two anti-war challengers in McCarthy and RFK, or that RFK was killed after winning the California primary, or that there was a police riot at the convention in which supporters of anti-war candidates were beaten on live TV, or that Humphrey was handed the nomination without having entered a single primary…

    Wasn’t that a beautiful day?

  140. 140
    ThymeZone says:

    The question is, why would Obama want someone as his running mate who is prone to saying idiotic things on the campaign trail?

    Exactly, especially when Mister Magoo, his opponent, is himself a gaffe machine.

  141. 141
    slippytoad says:

    I’ve been in court all afternoon and just coming in now to all the hysteria. All I’ll say is Hillary is being treated unfairly here. The media and blog commenters are engaging in character assassination.

    Uh, the word assassination first escaped Senator Clinton’s mouth, here.

    And I’m giving her no passes. This was a calculated statement and the no-interpretation-required meaning was: “I am staying in the primary campaign because Senator Obama might be abruptly killed.”

    There is simply no other way to put it.

  142. 142
    nightjar says:

    That said, I don’t think her point was “Golly, I’d better stay in the race just in case Senator Obama gets killed.” If nothing else, should Senator Obama be assassinated (God forbid), the Democratic Party is going to name her as their nominee whether she’s officially still in the race or not.

    The truth of this statement is that they probably will. However if she’s still fully in the race, it’s a certainty. She could suspend her campaign and re-instate it and be assured the nomination.

    And I think there is only one possibility that can be reached by this statement she’s made several times now over the months. And that is in her mind it’s the safest bet for her to get the nom in case the terrible happens. I don’t think that’s evil, and you could argue it’s just being pragmatic, but KO is correct to say, the use of the word assassination of the second place candidate as even the slightest rationale for staying full in the race, with our national history is unforgivable. And might I add sleazy beyond belief. No breaks given here.

  143. 143
    scarshapedstar says:

    Media: “Nobody has ever, in history, campaigned in a primary until June!!!1111 If she doesn’t drop out we’re all gonna die! She’s a monster!”

    Hillary: “Actually, you remember my husband? He did the same thing and things went pretty well, thanks. And remember RFK? Remember what an amazing person he was? Well, for christ’s sake, he was campaigning in June when they shot him. Was he a monster too? What the f*ck are y’all on about?”

    Media: “HILLARY THREATENS TO SHOOT OBAMA”.

  144. 144
    Maggie says:

    I also think she was just talking about the precedent for primaries still being contested in June.

    That said, there’s a karmic goodness about her getting hosed for this. She was more than happy to make hay out of Obama’s ‘bitter’ remarks — even though she has to know that he doesn’t look down on either religion or hunting. So now she gets a taste of her own medicine. I get a real satisfaction from that aspect of what’s going on.

    And I’m pretty sure this puts paid to the talk about her being on the ticket. That’s an outcome that doesn’t make me unhappy either.

    But stepping back a giant step, I’d still say the worst thing about all of this is that we are so quick to jump on people for how words sound rather than for what the words mean. There is *nobody* who hasn’t said something that could be misconstrued as something awful. There should be a greater willingness to read people charitably all around.

  145. 145
    Phoebe says:

    The apology was somehow worse. By going on and on about the Kennedy family, and never once mentioning Obama, her apology essentially says, “Sorry to bring up the sad RFK assassination, particularly when the K fam is sad now b/c of Ted. That was thoughtless of me. Sorry. I should have just left Kennedy out of it and said, ‘Anything could happen on or by June – Obama could get shot.'”

  146. 146
    Jake says:

    Look, you can spin this anyway you want, but she stepped on her dick today.

    I agree with the sentiment that we shouldn’t be so quick to jump on people, excepting that she’s been all too quick to jump on Obama when it suited her. Seriously, she can suck it.

    Even then, take the comments with as much context as you want. Her husband not being the nominee by June is an apples-to-oranges comparison, and if you think she doesn’t know that you’re fucking drunk on the cool-aid. Same goes for RFK’s run.

  147. 147
    Chris Johnson says:

    The amazing thing about Olbermann is, he has a big enough perspective to recognize the SHAME of our legacy of political assassination.

    Hillary seemed quite amenable to the prospect, since it (so she thought!) would hand her a nomination.

    I was happy to make jokes about such things not so long ago.

    Olbermann saw through this and called us ALL out on it. We all have a bit of Hillary in us. We’re mad at the idea that someone could shoot OUR guy- but it doesn’t occur to us how shameful it is that we should have to be worried.

    He’s right- it is a disgusting legacy of shame that we simply have to put behind us. Not poke with sticks to see if it’s sleeping!

  148. 148
    nightjar says:

    Exactly, especially when Mister Magoo, his opponent, is himself a gaffe machine.

    From Grandpa Sam

    “Mr. Magoo needs to go up on the mountain and get himself focused.”

    Thunderheart

    1992

  149. 149

    Actually being a senator from New York is a really good gig.

    She is no entitled to any other post.

    The VP is out of the question. The Supreme Court is a really bad joke.

  150. 150
    El Cid says:

    “Actually, y’all remember my husband? His main opponent Paul Tsongas withdrew in late March of 19 and 92, but I’m a gonna pretend that Bill was still really campaigning in June, just like I am, and just like RFK did in 1968 when their primaries started in March and then we lost any damn way. What the f*ck are y’all on about?”

  151. 151
    Jess says:

    I don’t think she was trying to link Obama with RFK (and therefore herself with HH?), but rather was trying to associate herself with RFK and it backfired terribly. Just being her usual self-absorbed, tone-deaf, politically clumsy self. Not an evil monster.

    But she has earned herself plenty of payback for bitter-gate, as Maggie said.

  152. 152
    Jess says:

    Olbermann saw through this and called us ALL out on it. We all have a bit of Hillary in us. We’re mad at the idea that someone could shoot OUR guy- but it doesn’t occur to us how shameful it is that we should have to be worried.

    He’s right- it is a disgusting legacy of shame that we simply have to put behind us. Not poke with sticks to see if it’s sleeping!

    Yes, well put!

  153. 153
    SamFromUtah says:

    The question is, why would Obama want someone as his running mate who is prone to saying idiotic things on the campaign trail?

    Good point. Similarly, superdelegates – a good chunk of them are congresscritters and senators who will have to deal with the president, and they have to be thinking of who they will want to work with.

  154. 154
    Delia says:

    But stepping back a giant step, I’d still say the worst thing about all of this is that we are so quick to jump on people for how words sound rather than for what the words mean. There is nobody who hasn’t said something that could be misconstrued as something awful. There should be a greater willingness to read people charitably all around.

    Well, as others have pointed out repeatedly on this very thread, it’s the fact that she has used these two examples several other times during the primary season that make it a little creepy, especially as she seems to keep referring to RFK’s assassination. And there are several other examples of primary nominations that would make her case better than either of those two examples. Olbermann discussed these points in the earlier segments of his show. Neither of them are appropriate. Her husband had had the nomination wrapped up well before the California primary (BTW, the reason California changed its primary this year is because it was so late that it never mattered.) And the RFK assassination reference, which she has used several times, is just discomfiting, to say the least. But no one called her on it before now. I guess it’s all that sexist bias in the media. Anyhow, it just stood out too much this time.

    I go for the Freudian interpretation. She doesn’t consciously wish Obama harm, but the fact that the same line keeps bubbling up is not insignificant. And not something we want in a President. And she is not a person who can do a proper apology. That’s another bad sign. We’ve had enough of that with the current crew.

    And there was some good analysis from Rachel Maddow and Eugene Robinson here

  155. 155
    Kevin says:

    MSNBC makes sure they have homo-boy Chris Cillizza & their ‘independent’ nubian queen house pet on to both blasting her for what a horrific thing it was to say.

    Can someone translate this from homophobic clown into English?

  156. 156
    Jake says:

    Can someone translate this from homophobic clown into English?

    I think it loosely translates as: Hillay is T-E-H AWESOME!

  157. 157
    scarshapedstar says:

    Check out RFK Junior’s pathetic defense of Hillary:

    It is clear from the context that Hillary was invoking a familiar political circumstance in order to support her decision to stay in the race through June. I have heard her make this reference before, also citing her husband’s 1992 race, both of which were hard fought through June. I understand how highly charged the atmosphere is, but I think it is a mistake for people to take offense.”

    How racist.

  158. 158
    Maggie says:

    Well, as others have pointed out repeatedly on this very thread, it’s the fact that she has used these two examples several other times during the primary season that make it a little creepy, especially as she seems to keep referring to RFK’s assassination. And there are several other examples of primary nominations that would make her case better than either of those two examples. Olbermann discussed these points in the earlier segments of his show. Neither of them are appropriate. Her husband had had the nomination wrapped up well before the California primary (BTW, the reason California changed its primary this year is because it was so late that it never mattered.) And the RFK assassination reference, which she has used several times, is just discomfiting, to say the least.

    We aren’t so far apart. I think her conscious logic is about long campaigns. I agree with you that even that logic doesn’t work (but then how often does her ‘logic’ make sense?) And it’s also the case that an unstated reason for her continuing in the race is precisely that something bad might happen — though I think uppermost in her mind has been the notion that a scandal might break out, or that she could power up his negatives in some overwhelming fashion such that SD’s would be compelled to turn to her.

    I think she’s slime all the way down. And I don’t doubt that when the thought of assassination crossed her mind (as it has crossed most of our minds) her uncensored reaction could well be that it would be good news for her. But I do think she probably censors that thought pretty quickly. And we all have uncensored thoughts that we’d rather not see the light of day, and which don’t represent anything we’d actually act on or even actively wish to happen. Since I don’t want to be judged based on every thought that flies through my brain, I’m not in a big hurry to make a deep judgment of her character based on the real possibility that she was giving voice to something that simmers deep underneath.

    So I do think she’s being trashed unfairly here. Though it’s not nearly as much as she has dished out, so I can’t say that there’s a large injustice happening here. And I find I have no sympathy for her, even though I suspect it must be rather devastating to realize that she’s put an end to her own campaign by saying something that didn’t even register with her as she said it.

    The best thing is that even if the construal is unfair, the optics are now such that she can’t be veep. And that’s a pretty large bullet that’s been dodged — cause it looked like the Clintons were going to play some ugly hardball on that. And I really can’t be sorry that an unfair reading of her words has put a halt to her effort to sleeze her way onto the ticket.

  159. 159
    Barbara says:

    I think the subtext is: she’s been hanging around for quite some time waiting for “something bad” to happen so that SDs will see the wisdom of selecting her, and it is only in that context that you can even view the primary as a contest anymore. No, she’s not hoping for assassination in even an unconscious way, but her campaign over the last two to three months has been an exercise in hoping for SOMETHING bad to happen to Obama, maybe it was Wright or Rezko or some new and stupid statement from Obama or his wife, or, more positively, an upset in North Carolina. None of that has happened . . . Mentioning assassination in that context gives it a heightened and morbid connotation. And yeah, it is stupid. I had also forgotten how much shorter the primary was in 1968. I do remember going to my ballet lesson on Saturday and finding my dance teacher ashened and heartsick. Can’t we hope that there will never be a year like 1968 ever again?

  160. 160
    Jack H. says:

    The problem with dealing with things like this from Hillary & Co. is much like dealing with the right for as long as I can remember. If you concede context, the courtesy is never returned.
    “So you’ll agree that she probably was just tired and in context meant no harm? Good, now we can get back to business. Wright! Bitter! Misogyny! Zimbabwe! Bambi! Disenfranchisement! Etc.! Etc.!

  161. 161
    Conservatively Liberal says:

    If she had said that ‘Bill did not have the nomination until he won California, and in the past many other primaries have gone even further than June’, that would have been fine. But the conversation was about why she should stay in the race.

    So she went the additional step and pointed out that Bobby Kennedy was killed in June of 1968, so she doesn’t ‘understand why’ people want her to quit now. In that context, she was saying that even though we had a candidate in Bill (and Bobby), someone killed Bobby and it could happen to Obama too.

    In other words, I am hanging in there because ‘Shit Happens!’.

    No slack here either. She said what she said and that is the end of it.The fact is that she has danced around the same words in the past and has now come back to them yet again, but this time she was not as careful in her wording and she got called on it. Good.

    It. Is. Over. Deal with it Hillary.

  162. 162
    Brachiator says:

    Rick Taylor Says:

    As I said earlier, I didn’t think her original remarks were a “new low”; more just a particularly bad gaffe. The remarks about Florida and Zimbabwe were more egregious in my mind, as their effect was obviously intended.

    The Zimbabwe remarks were more egregious, but you have to follow international news to measure their full impact. The Robert Kennedy remarks not only are closer to home, but it is easy to imagine the additional grief that they are causing the Kennedy family now.

    There’s an article in Time magazine that shows this isn’t the first time she used this comparison.

    This is the difference between “cold” and “hot” media. Reading the remarks in a magazine is less immediate. You have to imagine her tone. But seeing and hearing her make these remarks is far more vivid. And one can see and judge her remarks and her apology, and for most people, the conclusions are not very pretty.

    The news cycle is much faster these days, thanks to 24-hour cable, the Web, a metastasized pundit caste constantly searching for new angles, etc. As a result, politics is able to move much faster, too, as our democracy learns to process more information in a shorter period and to process it comfortably at this faster pace.

    Also, while news stories leaked or covered on a Friday usually die out pretty quickly, a story that unfolds at the beginning of a holiday weekend might gain legs as it is talked about at various gatherings of friends and family.

    People will be having dinner after the new Indiana Jones movie, and asking, “Did you hear what Hillary said?”

    People will be coming out of the Lakers game, asking, “By the way, did you hear what Hillary said?”

    While tossing another shrimp on the barbie, the chef will ask a guest, “Can you hand me a Fosters? And did you hear what Hillary said.”

    The Martian lander will touch down on Sunday. ETs will be chattering amongst one another, “Did you hear what Hillary said?”

    Politicians know how important it is to control the message, and the necessity of getting in front of their remarks. And, as noted, this is not the first time that Senator Clinton has linked comments about the death of Robert Kennedy and her campaign strategy. But Huckabee’s earlier unintentional remarks about Obama in front of the NRA, and the unfolding personal dimensions of Ted Kennedy’s illness has created a new context to Hillary’s remarks which she cannot easily dance away from. And the typically political, measured, triangulated and calculated flatness of her “apology” suggests that Clinton doesn’t quite understand and cannot control the repercussions of what may follow from her statements.

  163. 163
    cleek says:

    Hillary: “Actually, you remember my husband? He did the same thing and things went pretty well, thanks. And remember RFK? Remember what an amazing person he was? Well, for christ’s sake, he was campaigning in June when they shot him. Was he a monster too? What the f*ck are y’all on about?”

    hmm. a paraphrase should at least reflect what was actually said.

    she didn’t say RFK was an amazing person, the entirety of what she said about RFK was “We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California.” that’s it. that’s the entire reference.

  164. 164
    Notorious P.A.T. says:

    it’s the fact that she has used these two examples several other times during the primary season that make it a little creepy, especially as she seems to keep referring to RFK’s assassination.

    Don’t forget the fact that she has spent the past month pandering to gun-lovers, and talking about how much she loves shooting, and about how other people who love to shoot guns are backing her.

  165. 165
    Bey says:

    Jess said:

    don’t think she was trying to link Obama with RFK (and therefore herself with HH?), but rather was trying to associate herself with RFK and it backfired terribly. Just being her usual self-absorbed, tone-deaf, politically clumsy self. Not an evil monster.

    I think that’s exactly what happened. It’s part of her Saint Hillary The Martyr schtick. Watch me bravely soldier on in the face of terrible mysoginy! It’s just like RFK! He deserved the nomination but was tragically killed! Those boys are so mean!

    Her primary analogy is flawed, but mere facts have never stopped her narrative of inevitability before. It was the association with RFK that was the important part — she’s trying to appropriate the Kennedy legacy by citing his candidacy. I don’t think it had anything to do with Obama, really.

    But I think this is truly the stake in the heart of The Campaign That Wouldn’t Die. Thank God.

  166. 166
    Rick Taylor says:

    I don’t think she was trying to link Obama with RFK (and therefore herself with HH?), but rather was trying to associate herself with RFK and it backfired terribly. Just being her usual self-absorbed, tone-deaf, politically clumsy self. Not an evil monster.

    I think that’s the most convincing interpretation of her intention I’ve seen.

  167. 167
    nightjar says:

    I don’t think she was trying to link Obama with RFK (and therefore herself with HH?), but rather was trying to associate herself with RFK

    I might agree, except the context was her being asked the question of why she was staying in the race. Therefore, this analysis makes no sense to me.

  168. 168
    Rick Taylor says:

    I might agree, except the context was her being asked the question of why she was staying in the race. Therefore, this analysis makes no sense to me.

    I don’t think anyone’s arguing what she’s saying makes sense. But this fits together as well as anything I’ve read. Why should I stay in the race? Why RFK was still in the race when he was tragically cut down in June. Her apology, with it’s reference to how we need to look to the past and leaders who have inspired us and her attempt to link herself to Kennedy’s legacy, even occupying his seat in the senate, doesn’t make much sense, unless one takes this interpretation.

  169. 169
    Brachiator says:

    Bey Says:

    Jess said:

    don’t think she was trying to link Obama with RFK (and therefore herself with HH?), but rather was trying to associate herself with RFK and it backfired terribly. Just being her usual self-absorbed, tone-deaf, politically clumsy self. Not an evil monster.

    I think that’s exactly what happened. It’s part of her Saint Hillary The Martyr schtick. Watch me bravely soldier on in the face of terrible mysoginy! It’s just like RFK! He deserved the nomination but was tragically killed! Those boys are so mean!

    Yes, this is it exactly. It is not that Hillary is a monster, but that there is a severe disconnect between what she and her most devoted acolytes perceive to be Clinton bravely fighting on, and what others see as desperation and tone deafness. A comment from a reader on the andrew sullivan site sums it up well:

    I’m a Democrat, an Obama supporter who would gladly have pulled the lever for Clinton if she had won the nomination (which she did not). And until this afternoon, I even would have accepted her as Obama’s veep. But after that idiotic statement about Bobby Kennedy, no more. I say that not because the statement is offensive (which it is), but because it is so monumentally tone deaf.

    If she was trying to bolster her own case, she failed miserably. If she was trying to live up to every negative image that you or other Hilary-adversaries could gin up in your most hallucinatory fever dreams, well, mission accomplished. And I for one am tired of Dem presidential candidates who seem most skilled at rhetorically shooting themselves in the foot. Hopefully this gaffe will continue the rolling of superdelegates away from her camp, and end this parade of ignominy.

    With every new gaffe, Senator Clinton appears to be more and more out of touch with the national mood. For someone who pretends to be so focused, increasingly her statements are spinning further and further out of control.

    Her primary analogy is flawed, but mere facts have never stopped her narrative of inevitability before. It was the association with RFK that was the important part—she’s trying to appropriate the Kennedy legacy by citing his candidacy. I don’t think it had anything to do with Obama, really.

    The irony is that Ted Kennedy, even in the face of his illness, was embracing Obama with familial affection by asking Obama to substitute for him at the Wesleyan commencement. This makes Senator Clinton’s attempt to appropriate the Kennedy legacy look not only clumsy, but an act with psychological overtones that even Freud might have trouble untangling. And here it is important to remember that before Ted endorsed Obama, the Clintons were very tight with the Kennedy clan. But O’Bama is an old Irish name, isn’t it?

  170. 170
    nightjar says:

    I think her apology was pure gibberish, and untethered from her original statement, which was cold hard pragmatism she should have kept to herself — if something bad happens, I want to be in a best position to capitalize. I don’t think she’s a monster for this, just ambitious to a fault and always opportunistic.

  171. 171
    Rick Taylor says:

    I think her apology was pure gibberish,

    I originally thought her apology was gibberish; re-interpreting her original remarks as trying to compare herself to RFK gives them a context where, even though they still don’t make sense, I at least feel I understand why she made them. This isn’t an attempt to defend her; if she’s to the point where she’s so stressed she’s making comparisons of herself to RFK and being so tone deaf she doesn’t get how others may interpret them, it’s time for her to take time off from campaigning.

  172. 172
    nightjar says:

    Well, If your right and she’s making comparisons of herself staying in the race for June, to a candidate that was assassinated in June, then her choo choo has done gone around the bend.

  173. 173
    Jon H says:

    From the WaPo:

    Smart candidates don’t invoke the possibility of their opponents being killed. This seems so obvious it shouldn’t need to be said, but apparently, it needs to be said.

  174. 174
    ImJohnGalt says:

    Obama: “I don’t think we should be piling on Senator Clinton because of her misstatement. She certainly doesn’t mean that one of her Appalachian vassals should take a potshot at me………as far as I know.”

  175. 175
    Jon H says:

    The freaky thing about the Olbermann comment video is that, about 1:37 in, there’s a loud, audible pop that visibly startles Keith.

  176. 176
    Jess says:

    She certainly doesn’t mean that one of her Appalachian vassals should take a potshot at me………as far as I know.”

    Tee hee!

  177. 177
    Rick Taylor says:

    Well, If your right and she’s making comparisons of herself staying in the race for June, to a candidate that was assassinated in June, then her choo choo has done gone around the bend.

    Yup!

    Smart candidates don’t invoke the possibility of their opponents being killed. This seems so obvious it shouldn’t need to be said, but apparently, it needs to be said.

    Considering that Huckabee and Clinton made the same mistake, yup!

  178. 178
    Brachiator says:

    Rick Taylor Says:

    I originally thought her apology was gibberish; re-interpreting her original remarks as trying to compare herself to RFK gives them a context where, even though they still don’t make sense, I at least feel I understand why she made them.

    Her remarks only make sense as part of her patently phony attempt to appropriate every past and present political struggle as a metaphor for her “brave” campaign for the nomination. And her attempts to compare herself to a Kennedy looks particularly pathetic if you recall Caroline Kennedy’s praise of Obama in her NYT op-ed piece “A Man Like My Father,” and the recent example of Ted Kennedy making Obama an honorary Kennedy by asking him to fulfill Kennedy’s commitment to give the address to the graduates at Wesleyan.

    Here’s a little nugget as to why Wesleyan has sentimental importance for Kennedy:

    Kennedy, 76, had planned to address the graduates — including stepdaughter Caroline Raclin — Sunday in Middletown, Conn. The commencement exercises coincide with 25th reunion festivities for his son, Edward Kennedy Jr., who graduated from the school in 1983.

    Given this, and given Ted Kennedy’s current health issues, Clinton trying to invoke the Kennedy name for any reason appears to be crass, and her references to RFK’s death is beyond boneheaded.

    In addition, a current NYT story emphasizes the degree to which concerns about Obama’s safety is not just a matter of rhetoric or political gamesmanship(Clinton Remark on Robert Kennedy’s Killing Stirs Uproar):

    Concerns about Mr. Obama’s safety led the Secret Service to give him protection last May, before it was afforded to any other presidential candidate, although Mrs. Clinton had protection, too, in her capacity as a former first lady. Mr. Obama’s wife, Michelle, voiced concerns about his safety before he was elected to the Senate, and some black voters have even said such fears weighed on their decision of whether to vote for him.

    It was against that backdrop that Mrs. Clinton’s mentioning the Kennedy assassination in the same breath as her own political fate struck some as going too far. Representative James E. Clyburn of South Carolina, an uncommitted superdelegate, said through a spokeswoman that the comments were “beyond the pale.”

    The speed at which the remarks were transmitted and reacted to illustrated the new reality candidates are grappling with in this year’s campaign, in which Mr. Obama’s own remarks about “bitter” small-town voters ricocheted around the Internet.

    Mrs. Clinton’s remarks were initially reported online by The New York Post, whose reporters were not traveling with the Clinton campaign but were instead watching a live video feed of the meeting with newspaper editors. Its report quickly jumped to the Drudge Report, then whipped around the Internet and on television, with outraged comments piling up on Web sites.

    Campaign aides were taken aback by the quick reaction to her remarks, but then quickly realized that Mrs. Clinton had to backpedal.

    I can easily imagine that Senator Clinton’s campaign advisor’s said to her, “Hey, it’s almost June. Why not mention Robert Kennedy?” and Senator Kennedy eagerly agreed to the idea. The only problem was that her advisers are cynical fools, and Senator Clinton lacks her husband’s political savvy. But the end result is a political catastrophe for Hillary, no matter what Senator Clinton’s intentions were.

    if she’s to the point where she’s so stressed she’s making comparisons of herself to RFK and being so tone deaf she doesn’t get how others may interpret them, it’s time for her to take time off from campaigning.

    Since Senator Clinton has not offered stress as an excuse, you can’t do it for her. As noted, she has made these remarks before, so it is more likely that she foolishly thought that she could do so again nearer to the date of Robert Kennedy’s death.

    And besides, Senator Clinton has claimed that she will be ready from Day One to run the country, and who also claims that neither stress nor sleep deprivation would affect her ability to take that 3 am phone call. To suggest that she just needs to take a break from campaigning contradicts all the BS that she has been trying to feed us throughout this primary season.

  179. 179
    Rick Taylor says:

    Given this, and given Ted Kennedy’s current health issues, Clinton trying to invoke the Kennedy name for any reason appears to be crass, and her references to RFK’s death is beyond boneheaded.

    I agree.

    But the end result is a political catastrophe for Hillary, no matter what Senator Clinton’s intentions were.

    I agree, especially since her “apology” didn’t address what was wrong with what she’d said.

    Since Senator Clinton has not offered stress as an excuse, you can’t do it for her.

    Sure I can. I’m just trying to make sense of her baffling behavior.

    To suggest that she just needs to take a break from campaigning contradicts all the BS that she has been trying to feed us throughout this primary season.

    The most obvious way for her to take a break from campaigning would be to concede and suspend her campaign, which is what I had in mind. Honestly, when she made her her hard working white people gaffe, the thought occurred to me that given the sort of gaffes she was beginning to make she needed to step down for her own reputation as much as for the sake of the party. It seems that was correct.

  180. 180

    I was happy to make jokes about such things not so long ago.

    I own and use heavy caliber high powered firearms on flesh and blood, I do not make jokes like this, ever. I am not amused. Mike Huckabee’s “pointing a gun” is beyond stupid from a firearms safety point of view, never mind the rest of it. Most of that audience would’ve hit the floor in his joke situation. I know exactly what a firearm does and it ain’t movie magic.

    Hillary said something incredibly stupid, whatever Freudian crap you want to put on it, the stupid alone will do. Hillary’s fault isn’t that she’s stupid or not smart, she’s damn smart. John Cole brought up addiction the other day, and he’s exactly right, but in a way he didn’t recognize, the hallmark of an addict is short term thinking, immediate gratification. This works out to an inability to wait long term for a satisfying outcome. Whitewater, Travelgate, Health Care, AUMF, flag burning, Schiavo, Feb5, FL/MI, on and on is all about short term thinking for quick results. Some of you postulate that at one point she could have been he VP which I doubt, but she would never see that until the train hit her. No backup plan is a part of short term thinking, that thinking postulates that it will work fine, it can’t fail. Hillary isn’t evil, she’s a short term thinker and that is enough to disqualify her, way more than enough. GWB is one – you think his addictive personality went away because he found god? Fuck that – I recently had my 20th clean and sober birthday and I was a fucking mess, then. I’m not saying Hillary is an addict, I’m saying I recognize what she does.

    I know, it’s a hell of a lot more sexy to see her as some kind of amoral monster, but nah, she’s not even that unique, just a failure that’s been happening for 35 years. I don’t feel sorry for her, I don’t feel anything for her – she’s had repeated lessons since the 90s about the outcomes of her actions and hasn’t learned anything.

    All these failures have left her flailing about for something to connect with to give her something to hang this campaign on, another convenient grab for RFK and it explodes in her face.

    My friend and super delegate Jenny Greenleaf, DPO’s DNC Committeewoman announced for Obama today. She’s been tired of being pestered by everybody up to the international press for months. I told her some time back that I helped elect her and I trusted her judgement to be based on her best thinking, so she whispered in my ear and I can keep my trap shut as I have until the cat’s out.

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    Rome Again says:

    She embodies the politics that Obama is running to end. Good bye and good riddance.

    After reading this entire thread, this is what I want to take away from it.

    Please, enough of Hillary already, I’m completely exhausted by her stupid gaffes, her insensitivities, her ambition, her devisiveness. Let’s all just forget her and make her go away, PLEASE! She is not worth the time it takes to speak her name. She was a significant woman who blew her wad and now she’s done.

    On to the fight against son of Cain.

  182. 182
    Brachiator says:

    Rick Taylor Says:

    The most obvious way for her to take a break from campaigning would be to concede and suspend her campaign, which is what I had in mind. Honestly, when she made her her hard working white people gaffe, the thought occurred to me that given the sort of gaffes she was beginning to make she needed to step down for her own reputation as much as for the sake of the party. It seems that was correct.

    By the way, thanks for acknowledging some of my other points.

    I see your point her as well. But this, then, is the tragedy, Hillary Agonistes.

    For whatever reason, her increasingly bonheaded comments may be a sign that she should withdraw from the campaign. But something, someone, is egging her to continue, and her most shrill acolytes keep whining, “Oh my goddess Hillary, don’t quit! Don’t quit! If those mean boys won’t let you fight on until the end, we will either stay home or vote for McCain.”

    And so, she keeps … explaining … why she is still in the race, and why she she is going to fight on through the convention.

    And so she has backed herself into a corner. She needs to stop, but her ambition and ego won’t let her stop.

    A sad parody of a Samuel Beckett play:

    “I can’t go on. I’ll go on. “

  183. 183
    Sleeper says:

    The freaky thing about the Olbermann comment video is that, about 1:37 in, there’s a loud, audible pop that visibly startles Keith.

    I noticed that too. For a second I thought that the Dallas P.D. had let O’Reilly into the parking garage.

  184. 184
    Tom says:

    I’m an Obama guy through and through. But I believe Clinton’s explanation on this. I don’t think she was trying to raise the specter of an Obama assassination, but just made of poor choice of words when making the point that the Dem nomination in ’68 wasn’t decided in June.

    I just don’t think it would make political sense for her to do so (see this thread). And I think reasonable people see it that way. Harping on this is akin to harping on a speech by reverend Wright in that it’s skewing someone’s words to the worst possible meaning (regardless if that’s what they meant or not) and damning for that. The truth is no where to be found in all the BS.

  185. 185
    Marc says:

    It couldn’t happen to a more deserving person than Clinton. Her toxic legacy will remain with us through the fall. E.g. network polls comparing Obama’s votes among whites and blacks. Democrats always run behind in the white vote..and even when McCain is losing we’ll be seeing polls that Obama is “losing the real (white) vote.” Or, if he is ahead there, he’ll be losing the “hardworking white vote.” She has mainsteamed garbage in her desperation. She ran six weeks of negative ads in Pennsylvania based on a single sentence that Obama said. She deserves to experience the Golden Rule.

  186. 186
    jake says:

    Bwahaha!

    Clinton: Psst, Obama, let me be your Vice President.

    Audience: No! Don’t do it!

    Obama: No Clinton, I don’t think that would be a good idea.

    Clinton [to the audience]: Gosh, it’s almost June. That reminds me of when another young, charismatic politician was murdered in June.

    Audience: Gasp!

    Clinton: Say Obama, are you suuure I can’t be your Vice President?

    Obama: Get away from me you maniac!

    Clinton: Can I take your kids to the amusement park?

    Obama: No!

    Clinton: Hmmph. Sexist!

    Secret Service Agent: Come with me Mrs. Clinton.

  187. 187
    Krista says:

    LOL Jake. Good one.

  188. 188
    Cain says:

    On to the fight against son of Cain.

    Hey now.. Can’t you wait till he at least gets conceived?!

    cain

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