All About Me

No graceful exit in sight For Our Lady of Inevitability:

Hillary Rodham Clinton says she is willing to take her fight to seat Florida and Michigan delegates to the convention if the two states want to go that far. In an interview with The Associated Press, Clinton was asked whether she would support the states if they continue the fight.

The presidential candidate said Wednesday, “Yes I will. I will, because I feel very strongly about this.”

Clinton is calling for delegates from both states to be seated at the convention based on the primaries. Both states were stripped of their delegates because they voted early, violating national party rules. Clinton won both states; Barack Obama’s name wasn’t on the Michigan ballot.

Translation: “If this party doesn’t give me the nomination, I am gonna blow shit up.”

Once again, the hostage crisis metaphor is appropriate. A roll down memory lane, when Hillary discussed the Michigan election last October:

What a contemptible wretch Sen. Clinton has turned out to be, and I find it stunning that many Democratic blogs who routinely bitch about the various and numerous violations of rules, law, and international agreements by the Bush administration sit by and swallow this nonsense from the Senator Clinton.

*** Update ***

After courting the white vote for months in Appalachia, Mrs. Nixon informs us that seating Florida and Michigan are akin to the Civil Rights Movement. No. Seriously:

“This work to extend the franchise to all of our citizens is a core mission of the modern Democratic party,” she said. “From signing the Voting Rights Act and fighting racial discrimination at the ballot box to lowering the voting age so those old enough to fight and die in war would have the right to choose their commander in chief, to fighting for multi-lingual ballots so you can make your voice heard no matter what language you speak.”

What an asshole.

*** Update ***

Chait nails it:

This gambit by Clinton is simply an attempt to steal the nomination. It’s obviously not going to work, because Democratic superdelegates don’t want to commit suicide. But this episode is very revealing about Clinton’s character. I try not to make moralistic characterological judgments about politicians, because all politicians compromise their ideals in the pursuit of power. There are no angels in this business. Clinton’s gambit, however, truly is breathtaking.

If she’s consciously lying, it’s a shockingly cynical move. I don’t think she’s lying. I think she’s so convinced of her own morality and historical importance that she can whip herself into a moralistic fervor to support nearly any position that might benefit her, however crass and sleazy. It’s not just that she’s convinced herself it’s okay to try to steal the nomination, she has also appropriated the most sacred legacies of liberalism for her effort to do so. She is proving herself temperamentally unfit for the presidency.

Misogynist!

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100 replies
  1. 1
    MBunge says:

    The Clinton folks seem to have figured out that their direct, negative attacks on Obama weren’t working. But too many people have taken the end that approach as an acknowledgement from the Clintons that the race is over. But they’re still comitted to trying to grab that nomination any way they can.

    I suspect that a whole lot of Dems politicians are waiting for Obama to drop the hammer on Hillary. Obama, however, seems to have decided that as long as his position as nominee is secure, he’s going to wait for the rest of the party to sit Hill and Bill down and have an intervention.

    To use the hostage analogy again, Obama is the FBI negotiator who’s just waiting for Hillary’s adrenaline to run out and for her compatriots to recognize that the only way out is giving up or getting shot by a SWAT sniper.

    Mike

  2. 2

    If she continues this to the absolute bitter end it will cost her. She is making enemies in the DNC and she could poison her supporters for Obama.

  3. 3
    Ugh says:

    Nice party and presumptive nominee you’ve got there, be a’ shame if something happened to them.

  4. 4
    Mary says:

    John, I’ll share my cheap Canadian ulcer meds with you, OK?
    Clinton compares the Florida and Michigan fight to the civil rights movement.

  5. 5
    horatius says:

    How naive of you Mr. Cole?

    Clearly you don’t understand the noble sport of Clintonball.

  6. 6
    Ugh says:

    Good god, she’s really going there:

    Now, I’ve heard some say that counting Florida and Michigan would be changing the rules.

    I say that not counting Florida and Michigan is changing a central governing rule of this country – that whenever we can understand the clear intent of the voters, their votes should be counted. I remember very well back in 2000, there were those who argued that people’s votes should be discounted over technicalities. For the people of Florida who voted in this primary, the notion of discounting their votes sounds way too much of the same.

    Via Sullivan

  7. 7

    Is there to be no end to the sexist attacks on this woman who is only fighting for the people?

  8. 8
    Donna says:

    I am so very, very, very tired of that woman. I wouldn’t vote for her for dog catcher now.

  9. 9
    thefncrow says:

    The funniest thing is, there’s an easy way for her to justify changing her position from then to now. That solution was exactly how she could have slipped out of being blamed for supporting the Iraq War, and a solution John Edwards saw and embraced, and it can be summed up in 10 words.

    “I was wrong. I am terribly sorry. Please forgive me.”

    But that’s not in her. Such a statement would mean that she recognizes that her judgment is not perfect, that she is not infallible. It recognizes that it wasn’t that she was misled, or that she made the correct decision based on wrong information, or that she has any excuse for doing what she did, or that it was based on her misspeaking. That basic idea makes her so uncomfortable that she will go to any lengths to avoid having to accept it in public.

    Admit you were wrong, Hillary, and you’d have a leg to stand on again. People could see you being both humble and human for a change. Instead, she’d rather try to excuse her behavior as entirely correct and continue driving straight at the brick wall that’s facing her down. Maybe, she thinks, I can just go faster, and I’ll break through the other side of the wall and keep on going. We had another guy who tried to do that, and it ended up getting us stuck in Iraq.

  10. 10
    Dreggas says:

    To use the hostage analogy again, Obama is the FBI negotiator who’s just waiting for Hillary’s adrenaline to run out and for her compatriots to recognize that the only way out is giving up or getting shot by a SWAT sniper From Tuzla.

    Fixed.

  11. 11
    Jeff says:

    I would love for someone to ask Clinton how come African American voters should not agree with Jeremiah Wright when he says the white man is trying to keep him down, when one of her arguments for nomination is that not enough white people will vote for Obama because of his race.

  12. 12
    Jake says:

    I think the question someone should ask her is not what she’ll do if the states support pushing the fight to the convention, but what she’ll do even if they don’t.

    Is FL or MI really going to push back a whole heckofa lot if they get 1/2 their delegates seated? Hillary’s been fond of pointing out that, if the Dems had followed the GOP’s winner-take all system, she’d be the nominee. Well, 1/2 the delegates is the GOP punishment, so she should be good with that.

    Of course she won’t be the nominee, so she might view that particular GOP solution as problematic. I say she can suck it. Is that a sexist thing to say?

  13. 13
    Mary says:

    Obama’s team is willing to compromise.

    NPR just sent out a press release with excerpts of an interview Obama Chief Strategist David Axelrod gave “All Things Considered” host Michele Norris, where he seemed to open the door to a deal on Michigan and Florida:

    “We are open to comprise [sic]. We are willing to go more than half way. We’re willing to work to make sure that we can achieve a compromise. And I guess the question is: is Senator Clinton’s campaign willing to do the same?”

    Axelrod continues: “Well, obviously, any compromise is going to involve some give, and that means if there’s something on the table, we’re willing to consider it. That may include us yielding more delegates than perhaps we would have, simply on the basis of the rules.”

    Ben Smith seems to think this is a reaction to her civil rights speech I linked above, but I think it happened a little earlier. He can compromise and still win, but I hate any sign that makes it look as if he’s giving in.

  14. 14
    Genine says:

    I think that “I Can No Longer Rationally Discuss The Clinton Campaign” is a very good category.

    I know I’m there.

  15. 15
    tballou says:

    John – you are letting you CDS get the better of you again. Relax – this will all work out for the best. I really think all the anti-Clinton angst is way overblown. Let her have her day in the sun and salvage whatever dignity she can.

    For all those who can’t understand why she hasn’t quit yet, try running for political office – the real kind where you have to totally extend yourself to a bunch of people who for the most part don’t give a rats ass about you or what you stand for. The kind where you have to raise and spend real money and work your butt off. The kind where you have invested your total being. Then just walk away. It’s not so easy.

  16. 16
    rob! says:

    i heard a woman caller on NPR today say she’d vote for HRC as president, but for McCain if Obama is the nominee.

    why, she was asked by the host.

    “because Hillary has been the victim of terrible sexism by the media.”

    one of the guests piped in, and politely said “while that might be true, that isn’t the Obama campaign’s fault. i’d hate to see a woman vote against women’s issues just to get back at the media.”

    …this is why i could never be on a show like that. i would’ve not had the class or patience to talk to the caller like that.

    mine would’ve been more along the lines of “ARE YOU A FUCKING MORON? PLEASE DON’T VOTE AT ALL. IN FACT, PLEASE HAVE YOUR TUBES TIED TO MAKE SURE YOU DON’T CREATE LITTLE BROODS OF FUCKING MORONS.”

    nnnnhhh!

  17. 17
    Dreggas says:

    sorry for the DP stupid intertubes…

  18. 18
    Rick Taylor says:

    This has what’s frightened me for a while. She hasn’t left an avenue for a graceful exit for some weeks. Once you insist it’s a civil rights issue, how do you back down?

  19. 19
    Ugh says:

    For all those who can’t understand why she hasn’t quit yet, try running for political office – the real kind where you have to totally extend yourself to a bunch of people who for the most part don’t give a rats ass about you or what you stand for. The kind where you have to raise and spend real money and work your butt off. The kind where you have invested your total being. Then just walk away. It’s not so easy.

    Uhhh…there’s a long list of people who seem to have done just that in this current presidential campaign, why isn’t she capable of it?

  20. 20
    wingnuts to iraq says:

    carpet bagging nepotism for the win!

  21. 21
    libarbarian says:

    He can compromise and still win, but I hate any sign that makes it look as if he’s giving in.

    She cannot agree to any reasonable compromise – especially anything that might be considered fair. Her narrative REQUIRES her to appear as though she has been treated unfairly by the party. If she accepts a fair offer that will undermine this appearance.

  22. 22
    Justin says:

    John,

    She said it wasn’t going to count because there was an expectation of a REVOTE. A revote that Obama’s campaign has opposed at every turn.

    “If this party doesn’t give me the nomination, I am gonna blow shit up.”

    How is it that you have shit so turned around that you see this as Clinton’s argument, when in fact it is the argument of Obama’s supporters? I hear it every day; that simply because Obama was able to game the delegate system early on that we have no choice but to coronate him as the nominee. There is serious buyer’s remorse setting in, and the Obamasphere is looking a lot like the 101st Fighting Keyboarders in its unmitigated shilling for Obama.

  23. 23
    Dreggas says:

    libarbarian Says:

    He can compromise and still win, but I hate any sign that makes it look as if he’s giving in.

    She cannot agree to any reasonable compromise – especially anything that might be considered fair. Her narrative REQUIRES her to appear as though she has been treated unfairly by the party. If she accepts a fair offer that will undermine this appearance.

    Let’s say it goes to the rules committee, which it will, since Clinton has refused to agree to any of the potential compromises such as the last one MI proposed. At that point isn’t it up to the rules committee and the two states? If they come out with a compromise from there and both MI and FL state that they agree to the compromise that would pull the rug right out from her wannabe highness. I just hope the media makes it clear that there was a compromise, the two states agreed to it, and it’s now a whine fest by clinton. That is, if a compromise happens.

  24. 24
    John Cole says:

    How is it that you have shit so turned around that you see this as Clinton’s argument, when in fact it is the argument of Obama’s supporters? I hear it every day; that simply because Obama was able to game the delegate system early on that we have no choice but to coronate him as the nominee. There is serious buyer’s remorse setting in, and the Obamasphere is looking a lot like the 101st Fighting Keyboarders in its unmitigated shilling for Obama.

    Following the rules = gaming the system.

    /wingnut

    Was that Buyer’s Remorse in Oregon last night?

    Or is this Buyer’s Remorse in California?

  25. 25
    Zifnab says:

    sorry for the DP stupid intertubes…

    No worries. The internet always has room for more DP.

    I think the question someone should ask her is not what she’ll do if the states support pushing the fight to the convention, but what she’ll do even if they don’t.

    There are many clever and intelligent questions that could be asked of Mrs. Clinton and her political campaign. I just don’t think any journalist who gets close enough to voice it is going to get an intelligent response.

    That’s part of the problem with the “politics as usual” Clinton campaign. I haven’t seen a straight answer from her since New Hampshire. Seriously, though, can we go back in time and pick up the Hillary Clinton from New Hampshire so we can have a decent New York Senator and viable VP candidate again? I miss that.

  26. 26
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    Everyone’s vote should count except NV, IA, WA and ME, according to the Clintards.

  27. 27
    Dreggas says:

    Justin Says:

    John,

    She said it wasn’t going to count because there was an expectation of a REVOTE. A revote that Obama’s campaign has opposed at every turn.

    Both states had every opportunity to have a revote, they even had the opportunity to go in february. They refused. Nice try once again to pin this on Obama. Bottom line is after Shillary lost Iowa, squeaked by in NH and then lost SC did FL and MI matter to the Clinton campaign. Figures her campaign would act just like the republicans by trying to change the rules mid-stream.

  28. 28
    Z says:

    How about, instead of the Democratic presidential nomination, we give the Clinton team the gold medal and world record for shark jumping?

  29. 29
    Kevin says:

    How is it that you have shit so turned around that you see this as Clinton’s argument, when in fact it is the argument of Obama’s supporters? I hear it every day; that simply because Obama was able to game the delegate system early on that we have no choice but to coronate him as the nominee.

    Gaming the delegate system? WTF are you talking about? He has received more popular votes, more pledged delegates, and won more states than Clinton. He has been playing by the rules; Eva PeronClinton wants them thrown out the window at the last minute so that she can snatch the nomination.

    There is serious buyer’s remorse setting in

    yes, and every time a poll has shown buyer’s remorse, it has been remorse by Clinton voters.

    , and the Obamasphere is looking a lot like the 101st Fighting Keyboarders in its unmitigated shilling for Obama.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Go back to HillaryIs44 or No quarter, or whatever rock you crawled out from underneath.

  30. 30
    Ted says:

    I hear it every day; that simply because Obama was able to game the delegate system early on that we have no choice but to coronate him as the nominee.

    Winning more votes in more states, and thus winning more delegates = gaming the system.

    Got it.

  31. 31
    Zifnab says:

    She said it wasn’t going to count because there was an expectation of a REVOTE. A revote that Obama’s campaign has opposed at every turn.

    Expectation of a re-vote? When? Where? Link plz? At what point in time did the DNC amend the rules to mention voting out of order would earn you a re-vote?

    I think I’m going to call bullshit here. Obama didn’t bend over backwards to make a new vote in Florida happen, but then neither did the Florida State Legislature. How did Obama “oppose the at every turn” this allegedly promised re-vote?

    This is all certainly unfortunate for Clinton. Had Michigan and Florida stayed in the running, she probably would have been in a better position than she is today. But running up to the Florida and Michigan primaries, Hillary had no objection to the DNC rules or the sanctions being laid out. Her only objections occurred after the votes were counted in freaking California and she realized she wasn’t coming out of Super Tuesday the inevitable winner.

    No one, neither Hillary nor Obama, have clean agendas with Florida and Michigan. Fortunately for Obama, he’s on the side of the DNC rules. Unfortunately for Hillary, she’s behind in all the delegate counts and desperately needed those votes.

  32. 32
    Michele says:

    John – when you say “Obama was able to game the delegate system early on” – what you actually mean is, he ORGANIZED his supporters, ran a GOOD campaign, and WON THE PRIMARIES. (oh, how MEAN of him – to actually win more delegates by playing by the rules.)

    Listen, I am a woman who’s spent the last eight years vigorously defending Clinton – and I am so furious that her delusions (and her delusional supporters) may end up installing president McCain, I can’t tell you.

    This primary election was hers to lose – and by running the most incompetent campaign in modern history, lose it she did – all the while spending humungous amounts of money and fracturing the party while doing it.

    If her campaign had been at all professional, had organized and worked in all the states, she would be the nominee -= plain and simple. But she DIDN’T, and she LOST – and her threats to blow up the Democratic party rather than get her ego out of the way make me heartily regret the hours I spent vigorously defending her.

    Just out of curiosity – what, EXACTLY, would you Hillary Fantasy Folks like Obama to do?

    Do you expect him to make a speech, saying that EVEN though he won the most delegates, and the most states, and the popular vote, and the most superdelegates – he has decided to – what – just hand the nomination over to Hillary? Seriously? IS that what you seriously want him to do?

    If not, then what DO you want to happen? Really, I would appreciate an answer

    And, by the way – there HAS been a lot of sexism in the media directed at Hillary – but NONE of that is Obama’s fault, and NONE of it was used by him against Hillary.

    Contrast that with the Clinton strategy of loudly pointing out that Obama is black, and “hard-working white folks won’t vote for a black guy.”

    I swear – who knew that Clinton-flavored Kool-aid was every bit as lacking in logic as Bush Kool-aid?

  33. 33
    jake says:

    “From signing the Voting Rights Act and fighting racial discrimination at the ballot box to lowering the voting age so those old enough to fight and die in war would have the right to choose their commander in chief, to fighting for multi-lingual ballots so you can make your voice heard no matter what language you speak.”

    Where the hard working white Americans at?

    Camp Clinton has its head so far up its ass it views the world though its nipples.

  34. 34
    Rick Taylor says:

    For all those who can’t understand why she hasn’t quit yet, try running for political office . . .

    For the umpteenth time, the objection isn’t that she hasn’t quit yet. The objection is what she’s willing to do to try to win. She lost fair and square against an opponent who ran a better campaign than she did, despite being an unknown, despite all the advantages she had as a Clinton, despite her starting off with a 100 delegate lead before a single vote was cast. And now she is spreading the meme she should have won, she won the popular vote, she won the states that matter, and the if Obama is the nominee it will not be legitimate; it will be comparable to Florida in 2000. There are plenty of her supporters that buy this; go read their blogs, you’ll see they’re no posting how either they’ll sit out the election or they’ll vote for McCain. Probably some of them would no matter what Clinton said, but she’s pouring gas on the fire, and it will hurt us in November. All that stuff she said party unity and the Democrats being ready to lead turns to have been bull crap; it’s always been about the Clintons, not the party. Perhaps she’ll prove me wrong after the primaries; perhaps she’ll go all out for the nominee. But it’s sure not looking like it up until now; now she’s stabbing the party in the back.

  35. 35
    Warren Terra says:

    Let her have her day in the sun and salvage whatever dignity she can.

    If she were trying to salvage her dignity, I’d be all for Clinton campaigning right up until June 3. More to the point, because June 3 is now very close, I’d have been all for her continued campaigning for weeks and months now.

    The problem is, she isn’t trying to “have her day in the sun and salvage whatever dignity she can.” She’s trying to destroy Obama. She – personally – is propagating arguments whose subtext is quite clearly, “Obama is illegitimate”. They do this in all sorts of ways, with mutually reinforcing messages of steadily escalating vituperation: Obama isn’t one of us (bowling, whiskey, guns, “hard working white folks”). He isn’t patriotic. He is empowered by mysogyny. He doesn’t reflect the will of the popular vote.

    They aren’t pushing out these narratives to convince the remaining undeclared superdelegates: they know the superdelegates are too-well informed, if only because of all the people trying to win them over to each side. They aren’t pushing out these narratives to convince the remaining voters, for the most part, because there simply aren’t that many voters left, and there’s little evidence that voters this cycle have been swayed by process arguments. They are pushing these narratives to kindle in the spirits of their core supporters a fierce flame of resentment and hatred for Obama. Because this keeps the Hostage Situation alive.

    At Clinton’s Kentucky speech last night, as she pushed her discredited “popular vote” theory, two of the people closest to her in camera view behind her held handmade signs saying “Count Every Vote”. You can be sure that such visuals don’t occur by accident, and the invocation of the Florida 2000 slogan – a memory that still causes pain to Democrats, of when the declared winner seized the mantle corruptly and illegitimately – was no coincidence. This is the game they’re playing, and these are the people who would rather destroy the party than face reality. They may yet get their wish.

  36. 36
    PeterJ says:

    Lieberman had republicans that voted for him in 2006. I doubt any republicans vill vote for Clinton in 2012, so she’s got four more years in the senate.

  37. 37
    Rick Taylor says:

    Gaming the delegate system? WTF are you talking about?

    Surely you remember? Back when Obama mind controlled the Florida and Michigan legislatures to put their primaries at the top of he DNC calendar? When he mind controlled the DNC committee, inluding Ickes, to penalize the states all their delegates. And when he further mind controlled the states to reject a caucus or another solution.

  38. 38
    Fledermaus says:

    There was a great editorial cartoon today that I can’t find online that showed Obama getting sworn in as pres with HRC leaping from behind the stage shouting “I can still win!”

  39. 39

    She said it wasn’t going to count because there was an expectation of a REVOTE

    Even though that’s entirely in your imagination, it would be sexist to dispute it.

    Therefore, I must agree with you.

  40. 40
    crw says:

    He can compromise and still win, but I hate any sign that makes it look as if he’s giving in.

    Obama’s going for the ‘more than fair’ strategy. That way, when Hills rejects his very generous offer, he and the party can give her an epic smack down. In theory, the only people screaming will be Hills and her absolute dead enders who are a lost cause anyway.

  41. 41
    Rick Taylor says:

    Gaming the delegate system? WTF are you talking about?

    Or perhaps he’s taking about Obama maliciously campaigning to win in all those minor caucus states Clinton didn’t bother to compete in. You have to admit, he is guilty of attempting to campaign in such a way he would win.

  42. 42

    Surely you remember? Back when Obama mind controlled the Florida and Michigan legislatures to put their primaries at the top of he DNC calendar? When he mind controlled the DNC committee, inluding Ickes, to penalize the states all their delegates. And when he further mind controlled the states to reject a caucus or another solution.

    You are being sarcastic, but of course, that is exactly what cult leaders do. The people in Hillary’s camp are not laughing at your remarks, they will soon include them in their talking points. And, I fully support that.

  43. 43
    Genine says:

    The problem is, she isn’t trying to “have her day in the sun and salvage whatever dignity she can.” She’s trying to destroy Obama. She – personally – is propagating arguments whose subtext is quite clearly, “Obama is illegitimate”. They do this in all sorts of ways, with mutually reinforcing messages of steadily escalating vituperation: Obama isn’t one of us (bowling, whiskey, guns, “hard working white folks”). He isn’t patriotic. He is empowered by mysogyny. He doesn’t reflect the will of the popular vote.

    That’s always been my problem with her in the race. I know some Hillary supporters are saying she’s being asked to drop out because of her sex. I don’t think so. I think its due to the fact that she is running such a destructive campaign that is not only damaging to her, but damaging to Obama.

    She is not thinking of the consequences of her campaign. She’s just thinking of making history.

    But this “Every vote counts” bullshit and victimhood is really irritating me. Especially since she’s the victim of sexism and somehow racism magically disappeared.

  44. 44
    croatoan says:

    Will no one rid me of this meddlesome presidential candidate?

    According to exit polls, 35% of the people who voted in the Michigan primary would’ve voted for Obama if he’d been on the ballot. Any solution giving him less than that seems unfair.

  45. 45
    PeterJ says:

    It’s fucking insane that instead of talking about McCain’s crazy priest Hagee, who said that Hitler did God’s work, we’re talking about this shit.

  46. 46
    croatoan says:

    “Every vote counts”

    * Offer not valid in caucus states or for Obama supporters in Michigan.

  47. 47
    Rick Taylor says:

    She said it wasn’t going to count because there was an expectation of a REVOTE. A revote that Obama’s campaign has opposed at every turn.

    Actually, Clinton did not call for revoted until March, when it was arguably too late to implement one; her originally she wanted the delegates seated as is (including from Michigan where her opponent was not on the ballot). She also opposed caucus solutions.

  48. 48
    Dreggas says:

    John Cole Says:

    Was that Buyer’s Remorse in Oregon last night?

    Or is this Buyer’s Remorse in California?

    Speaking from experience here in So-Cal there’s buyers remorse for a lot of people who support clinton. The one word I hear with her in the same sentence even around the workplace is “nasty” and it’s about her campaign and their tactics.

  49. 49
    John Cole says:

    John – when you say “Obama was able to game the delegate system early on” – what you actually mean is, he ORGANIZED his supporters, ran a GOOD campaign, and WON THE PRIMARIES. (oh, how MEAN of him – to actually win more delegates by playing by the rules.)

    I did not say that shit. Justin did. I was quoting him. I agree with you completely.

  50. 50
    Cain says:

    Speaking from experience here in So-Cal there’s buyers remorse for a lot of people who support clinton. The one word I hear with her in the same sentence even around the workplace is “nasty” and it’s about her campaign and their tactics

    We hatess the clintonsss, preciouss.. we hatesss them… nasssty clintonsss, hateful clintonsss.. hatesss it we do…hatesss!

    cain

  51. 51
    Dreggas says:

    Cain Says:

    Speaking from experience here in So-Cal there’s buyers remorse for a lot of people who support clinton. The one word I hear with her in the same sentence even around the workplace is “nasty” and it’s about her campaign and their tactics

    We hatess the clintonsss, preciouss.. we hatesss them… nasssty clintonsss, hateful clintonsss.. hatesss it we do…hatesss!

    cain

    Ok the odd part about your reply is I have been basically saying “We hates it” time and again about many things lately. Something in the water down here I tell ya.

  52. 52
    Tsulagi says:

    I find it stunning that many Democratic blogs who routinely bitch about the various and numerous violations of rules, law, and international agreements by the Bush administration sit by and swallow this nonsense from the Senator Clinton.

    Whoa, hyperbole much?

    I dunno, Hillary refusing to quit and still pushing to win the nomination seen as even remotely on a level comparable to unilaterally withdrawing from the ABM treaty, to an extent Geneva Conventions, warrantless wiretapping, the 1% threshold of being correct in order to start a preemptive war (missed it with Iraq), the unitary executive uber alles via executive finding form of government, etc., etc. somehow just doesn’t work for me. Not sure, but I think even The MUP might agree.

    Appropriate new tag, though…lol

  53. 53
    nightjar says:

    Justin Says:

    John,

    She said it wasn’t going to count because there was an expectation of a REVOTE. A revote that Obama’s campaign has opposed at every turn.

    This is just bullshit. I’m re-posting the following comment I made on another thread as a response to this crap.

    A re-vote in Michigan was always in the cards, except Clinton only wanted to use her own deck. She insisted on a state run primary election and when the state of Michigan refused to pay for it—She then used the phony canard that Obama refused a privately funded state run election, knowing for legal reasons this was impossible. Then there is the Caucus route that can be funded privately, and she flat refused it when Obama agreed to a caucus.

  54. 54
    Cain says:

    Ok the odd part about your reply is I have been basically saying “We hates it” time and again about many things lately. Something in the water down here I tell ya.

    When you said nasty, Gollum was what came to mind for some reason. We are NSync.

    cain

  55. 55
    Crusty Dem says:

    Listen up, everybody, avoid the rage (Hulk SMASH!!). I still think she’s just trying to con enough money out of the Taylor Marsh-types to get her $11.4 million back. That’s a hell of a lot of cash to leave on the table, and every time she blows a couple million, Bill has to go schmooz some dictator in *****istan.

    Yes, there is a tremendous amount of ridiculous bullshit being spewed by her campaign, but if she wants money, she has to talk like she’s viable. The only way for her to even seem viable is by being incredibly illogical, but as long as the idiots fall for it, they’ll keep sending her money.

    I’d just like to see what her expenditures are now on a week/week basis. She should be shutting down everything expensive (closing office, consultants, no TV, etc) and just travelling now.. If she’s still spending big money, all bets are off.

  56. 56
    Cain says:

    Listen up, everybody, avoid the rage (Hulk SMASH!!). I still think she’s just trying to con enough money out of the Taylor Marsh-types to get her $11.4 million back. That’s a hell of a lot of cash to leave on the table, and every time she blows a couple million, Bill has to go schmooz some dictator in *****istan.

    Sorry buddy, it seems like a stretch to me as she’s continuing to spend money racking up her debt. If she wants to take this to the bitter end, I don’t think Obama is under any obligation to help pay off her debts.

    cain

  57. 57
    John Cole says:

    I dunno, Hillary refusing to quit and still pushing to win the nomination seen as even remotely on a level comparable to unilaterally withdrawing from the ABM treaty, to an extent Geneva Conventions, warrantless wiretapping, the 1% threshold of being correct in order to start a preemptive war (missed it with Iraq), the unitary executive uber alles via executive finding form of government, etc., etc. somehow just doesn’t work for me.

    I have seen approximately NOTHING from the Clinton campaign so far to lead me to believe that they will adhere to and agree to rules, precedent, law, whatever if it does not serve their purposes. Nothing.

  58. 58
    Dreggas says:

    Tsulagi Says:

    I dunno, Hillary refusing to quit and still pushing to win the nomination seen as even remotely on a level comparable to unilaterally withdrawing from the ABM treaty, to an extent Geneva Conventions, warrantless wiretapping, the 1% threshold of being correct in order to start a preemptive war (missed it with Iraq), the unitary executive uber alles via executive finding form of government, etc., etc. somehow just doesn’t work for me.

    You know what, I used to tell the few republicans I know that cheered the “unitary executive” and all the horse shit under bush to imagine what Hillary Clinton would do if she ever got to be president after this mess was over. I bet money she wouldn’t undo a single bit of the abuses we’ve seen under bush, in fact she’d use them herself out of spite and vindicitiveness. Don’t like her health care plan? Signing statement.

  59. 59
    Genine says:

    Tsulagi Says:

    I find it stunning that many Democratic blogs who routinely bitch about the various and numerous violations of rules, law, and international agreements by the Bush administration sit by and swallow this nonsense from the Senator Clinton.

    Whoa, hyperbole much?

    I think of it as something as a slippery slope.

    Many Clinton supporters write off what Hillary is doing as politics as usual and its just what politicians do. But then, at the same time, they claim to be progressives and want change and want the country to move forward. In my way of thinking, you cannot actively support “politics as usual” then claim you want “change”. Its like the saying “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.”

    Besides, Clinton has shown herself to have very few ethics and the willingness to do whatever is necessary to get and/or maintain power. The Iraq war happened on Bush’s watch. But, from Clinton’s behavior, I really can’t say with certainly she wouldn’t do the same. So it might really be a matter of the difference between Bush and Clinton is due to timing rather than personal integrity. I really don’t like to think that of Clinton, however, the last few months have really disillusioned me about her.

    Also note that I am not saying Obama is a saint. But I honestly believe he is TRYING to do things a different way, a better way. He’ll slide sometimes, just like the rest of us. But, so far, he always seems to come back on track. Clinton slides and just keeps sliding and refuses to even acknowledge she’s sliding and, if she does acknowledge she’s sliding its not her fault but someone else’s.

    I’ve really had enough of those qualities in our so-called leaders.

  60. 60
  61. 61
    JC says:

    I think this is the first time that I have been EXTREMELY annoyed by Clinton. Everything else seemed…like politics. Ugly, but that’s politics.

    But this – I HATED – with a passion – HATED the betrayal of the nation by the Florida 2000 election f**k-up. I was BITTER around the media’s “we must have a solution now”, the hanging chads, the depriving of ballots in Florida to african-americans, the confusion over the balloting in that one county, the B.S. about oversees ballots, the Republican Brooks Brothers mafioso, gaming the system in their own way, and then backed up by the Supreme Court who actually STOPPED people from COUNTING BALLOTS.

    That whole election – wasn’t a betrayal of only Democrats, but was a betryal of this country that I love.

    And she has the audacity – THE AUDACITY – to compare her quest – to that F*K-UP. Obama following the rules, driving up and inspiring participation in the country – to the Florida situation, that is a betrayal of America??

    Oh no – oh no, no, no, no, no.

    You do NOT do that, and remain a member in good standing of the Democratic party. You do not disrespect the voters that way – in fact, the voters OF FLORIDA, that way, as well as the rest of the country.

    I can’t see what can be done about this. But it’s absolutely unacceptable for her to go there.

  62. 62
    nightjar says:

    I bet money she wouldn’t undo a single bit of the abuses we’ve seen under bush, in fact she’d use them herself out of spite and vindicitiveness. Don’t like her health care plan? Signing statement.

    I suspect it would be even worse. Her millions of zombie disciples would join in ideological glee with the wingnuts and leave the Constitution as toilet paper in the nations restrooms. Gross metaphor, I know.

  63. 63
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    I have seen approximately NOTHING from the Clinton campaign so far to lead me to believe that they will adhere to and agree to rules, precedent, law, whatever if it does not serve their purposes. Nothing.

    Bill Clinton, first President to approve the use of extraordinary rendition.

  64. 64
    Dreggas says:

    nightjar Says:

    I suspect it would be even worse. Her millions of zombie disciples would join in ideological glee with the wingnuts and leave the Constitution as toilet paper in the nations restrooms. Gross metaphor, I know.

    There’s worse metaphor’s. but I agree. In fact coupled with the bet that her and Bill both let their mouths write a bunch of checks their asses can’t cash unless she’s the nominee and wins I would even double down that she’d use the “unitary executive” theory to do whatever the hell she wants.

  65. 65
    JC says:

    Dreggas,

    That limp bizkit song – Full Nelson (mouth is writing checks that your ass can’t cash), is about how I feel about what Clinton is doing with what she is saying. Luckily, Obama is a better man than I am, and wouldn’t respond that way.

  66. 66

    […] More at Memeorandum: The Moderate Voice, MSNBC, PoliBlog (TM), NO QUARTER, TPM Election Central, The Confluence, Balloon Juice, Real Clear Politics, Big Head DC and Political Machine Share and Enjoy: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages. […]

  67. 67
    Tsulagi says:

    I have seen approximately NOTHING from the Clinton campaign so far to lead me to believe that they will adhere to and agree to rules, precedent, law, whatever if it does not serve their purposes. Nothing.

    I wouldn’t go that far.

    At any rate, the evildoeress Hillary pledged to support and work for Obama if he wins the nomination, and urged her supporters to do the same. I’ve seen nothing from her to lead me to doubt her word or sincerity on that.

    As for Obama, he still doesn’t do much for me. Hands down he’s got the talk. Hasn’t been anyone since JFK or MLK with the gift/ability at that level. Bill Clinton at his best not near Obama’s league. I’m just more interested in the walk. He hasn’t shown me much there.

  68. 68
    Dreggas says:

    At any rate, the evildoeress Hillary pledged to support and work for Obama if he wins the nomination, and urged her supporters to do the same. I’ve seen nothing from her to lead me to doubt her word or sincerity on that.

    There’s a line from shakespeare, namely Macbeth that comes to mind:

    “Act like the innocent flower but be the serpent beneath”

    The longer this has gone on the more I have begun to believe that there is no low to which Clinton will not stoop.

  69. 69
    Wilfred says:

    Finally, something out of the ordinary. If she really believes this much in herself then we have all the elements for exquisite tragedy – the hubris-driven protagonist brought low by an internal flaw, one forced to the surface by extraordinary circumstances and destined to end in catastrophe: Whom the gods destroy…

    Aristotelian poetics come to ground in America.

    Outfuckingstanding!

  70. 70
    JC says:

    Americanblog points this out, from Politico:

    In an intentional bit of symbolism, Clinton’s three campaign stops will be in Palm Beach, Broward, and Dade counties – the three jurisdictions where Democrats allege voters were disenfranchised during the 2000 presidential election.

    It’s just SO wrong. So absolutely wrong.

  71. 71
    Dreggas says:

    JC Says:

    Americanblog points this out, from Politico:

    In an intentional bit of symbolism, Clinton’s three campaign stops will be in Palm Beach, Broward, and Dade counties – the three jurisdictions where Democrats allege voters were disenfranchised during the 2000 presidential election.

    It’s just SO wrong. So absolutely wrong.

    Yeah, shameless, craven, assinine, pathetic, dispicable there are a lot of adjectives to describe it but at this point it’s just plain Clintonian.

  72. 72
    wasabi gasp says:

    Fucked-up chicks are hot!!!

  73. 73
    Michele says:

    Honorable Cole-san:

    Sorry, I know it was Justin, not you, spewing that cherry-red Kool-aid all around the place – I just mis-typed.

    But now that I have your attention – I wish that you, as well as other top bloggers, WOULD pose the question to the Clintonites here – exactly WHAT do they want Obama to do?

    Should he gift-wrap the nomination nicely, and present it to her? Tell all of the people who voted for him – the majority, let us remember – that the Democratci party no longer believes in democracy?

    I wish just once one of them would describe their desired end game. Since they won’t come out and SAY “We don’t care about your stinkin’ democracy, we want Hillary to have the omination even if she lost” – well, what DO they want Obama to do?

  74. 74
    Notorious P.A.T. says:

    I find it stunning that many Democratic blogs who routinely bitch about the various and numerous violations of rules, law, and international agreements by the Bush administration sit by and swallow this nonsense from the Senator Clinton.

    Me too, John. One of the (many) frustrating aspects of this primary has been watching websites run by what I whought were fellow liberal firebrands like me mope and mumble about how “Clinton and Obama are pretty much the same” and “I don’t care who wins” and “It doesn’t matter, they both suck, hahaha I’m so clever and cynical”. That’s why this place has rocketed up my own personal hit parade.

    A re-vote in Michigan was always in the cards, except Clinton only wanted to use her own deck. She insisted on a state run primary election and when the state of Michigan refused to pay for it

    Unfortunately our state is flat broke. Just today there was an examination in the paper about the effects of all the police we’ve had to lay off due to budget shortfalls. So calling for a revote is a dead end, and I suspect Clinton knows it.

  75. 75
    El Doh says:

    At any rate, the evildoeress Hillary pledged to support and work for Obama if he wins the nomination, and urged her supporters to do the same.

    She pledged not to participate in the Michigan primary, said it wouldn’t count, left her name on the ballot, and now wants the delegates.

    I don’t put a lot of stock in what she says, at this point.

  76. 76

    […] –John Cole offers a YOU TUBE VIDEO from October where Clinton said something quite different about Michigan. Cole writes: Once again, the hostage crisis metaphor is appropriate….What a contemptible wretch Sen. Clinton has turned out to be, and I find it stunning that many Democratic blogs who routinely bitch about the various and numerous violations of rules, law, and international agreements by the Bush administration sit by and swallow this nonsense from the Senator Clinton. […]

  77. 77
    El Doh says:

    Unfortunately our state is flat broke. Just today there was an examination in the paper about the effects of all the police we’ve had to lay off due to budget shortfalls. So calling for a revote is a dead end, and I suspect Clinton knows it.

    A firehouse caucus was suggested but Clinton refused. I forget the reason given, but I think it might have been because people who voted in the GOP primary could vote in the caucus too.

    For some reason since then though, all we’ve heard is “Obama blocked the votes!”

  78. 78
    Dreggas says:

    Oh and in another bit of pure shamelessness. Hillary is comparing the quest to seat michigan and florida as a civil rights issue and has gone one step further…the dem primary, and rules put in place, is no better than the election in Zimbabwe if florida and michigan are not seated as is…

  79. 79
    ThymeZone says:

    In an intentional bit of symbolism, Clinton’s three campaign stops will be in Palm Beach, Broward, and Dade counties – the three jurisdictions where Democrats allege voters were disenfranchised during the 2000 presidential election.

    Poignant. But if her husband had not been a complete asshole, and for that matter if she herself had not been such a complete asshole …. Al Gore could have won that election handily and the Florida Fiasco would never have happened.

    We’d be at the end of the Gore administration, there would be no war in Iraq.

  80. 80
    HRA says:

    Someone who cannot say they are sorry for a mistake they made, will not admit to defeat either.

    Over these many months, I have watched her invent and re-invent herself for every contest. The falseness of it makes me shudder. I mean really physically shudder every time I see it on TV or the Web. It makes Tuzla not a misspeak or mistake. It makes it a plan, a plot, etc.

    Now I am further insulted by this sexism mantra being spewed by her and her supporters. I am a woman. If I do not have the intelligence to compete, I don’t deserve whatever I am competing for. When I have lost, I chalk it up to another experience and move forward. It’s not how you react to winning. It’s how you react to losing that counts.

    I am truly going to celebrate once the Clintons are out of politics.

  81. 81
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    I wish just once one of them would describe their desired end game. Since they won’t come out and SAY “We don’t care about your stinkin’ democracy, we want Hillary to have the omination even if she lost” – well, what DO they want Obama to do?

    Michele, I’ve actually gotten a couple of Clintards to answer that for me. They want Obama to understand that he cannot win and quit the race.

  82. 82
    w vincentz says:

    Of all the Dem candidates that PLEDGED to abide by the rules set forth by the DNC at the onset of the primaries, only Hillary has forgotten the pledge she made.
    How convenient!
    In my humble view, this is the very reason that all of her arguements for seating MI and FL are bogus.
    You signed it, Hillary. YOU’RE the one with “buyer’s remorse”, but you agreed to the rules, remember?

  83. 83
    El Doh says:

    Michele, I’ve actually gotten a couple of Clintards to answer that for me. They want Obama to understand that he cannot win and quit the race.

    Did they explain why he can’t win?

  84. 84
    ResumeMan says:

    the dem primary, and rules put in place, is no better than the election in Zimbabwe if florida and michigan are not seated as is…

    That’s rich, considering that recognizing Michigan as is would be no better than an election in the Soviet Union or Saddam’s Iraq…

  85. 85
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    Did they explain why he can’t win?

    You know..

  86. 86
    rococo says:

    I find it stunning that many Democratic blogs who routinely bitch about the various and numerous violations of rules, law, and international agreements by the Bush administration sit by and swallow this nonsense from the Senator Clinton.

    Digby is especially surprising and disappointing in this regard.

  87. 87

    […] Balloon Juice has a different but related perspective.   […]

  88. 88
    zoe from pittsburgh says:

    For years now whenever Bush comes on the teevee I have to turn it off– at the very least turn off the sound.

    Now I do that whenever Hillary comes on the teevee. Although whenever Terry McAullife comes on I want to grab my (nonexistant) gun and shoot the teevee. When Geraldine Ferraro comes on I want to pick up the teevee and throw it out the window.

    The truly sad thing is that while sexism has certainly been an issue in this campaign Hillary’s 11th hour strategy of bringing it up NOW actually undermines her claim. Also, for Hillary to deny that racism isn’t a factor means that she has completely lost all perspective on this campaign whatsoever.

    The Stupid– it burns!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  89. 89
    KRK says:

    Justin Says:

    A revote that Obama’s campaign has opposed at every turn.

    No, no, no.

    Clinton opposed the revote, only gave in when the state’s party leaders went ahead and started negotiating with the DNC without her. Obama never opposed the revote; he did express concerns about the proposals, for example, that the mail-in proposals would have to be reviewed by the feds under the Voting Rights Act and that would be a problem under the tight schedule.

    The good news is that for all their obnoxious bluster in 2007, the party leaders in MI and FL are not going to be willing to tie their political futures to Clinton’s Last Stand. They’ve been trying to work out a resolution for months, even the Clinton supporters among them. So if she insists on fighting on alone, she’ll look appropriately ridiculous.

  90. 90
    Pug says:

    so that she can snatch the nomination.

    Sexist!

    Did they explain why he can’t win?

    That’s simple enough. Because he’s black.

  91. 91
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    Also, for Hillary to deny that racism isn’t a factor means that she has completely lost all perspective on this campaign whatsoever.

    I’d argue that her wink and nod campaign through Appalachia as she rode the great wave of racist sentiment was more destructive.

    We’re Democrats for a reason, dammit. And it isn’t to give succor to racists.

  92. 92

    […] John Cole notes the irony: After courting the white vote for months in Appalachia, Mrs. Nixon informs us that seating Florida and Michigan are akin to the Civil Rights Movement. […]

  93. 93

    […] John Cole notes the irony: After courting the white vote for months in Appalachia, Mrs. Nixon informs us that seating Florida and Michigan are akin to the Civil Rights Movement. […]

  94. 94

    For all those who can’t understand why she hasn’t quit yet, try running for political office – the real kind where you have to totally extend yourself to a bunch of people who for the most part don’t give a rats ass about you or what you stand for. The kind where you have to raise and spend real money and work your butt off. The kind where you have invested your total being. Then just walk away. It’s not so easy.

    Does the US House count? Does it count while running a full time construction crew? Let me put it to you this way, it was the most exhausting thing I’ve ever done and this shit of asking people for money for a hope rather than a product truly sucks. I finished the race and by the last couple appearances it was obvious that turn out was going to stink and I was toast, but not once did I say a bad thing about another one of my Democratic opponents. Not in print, in speech, or campaign site. I made the point that I was something different and that was what it would take and the winner got shellacked with 33% and the winner was the same old same old. Since I didn’t get the chance I have no idea if I could have won, could would have been the best.

    No, you can’t quit. You’ve taken people’s money and you’ve made them promises to represent their point of view and if you have any honor and you’re the only one doing it your way you have to stay. You spend their money and your own and your time and energy and a whole lot of people could care less if you’re alive and you do it because it is right to do it. You do not have to play dirty and you do not have to make enemies and as plain spoken and direct as I am I made no enemies in that campaign – well except maybe Greg Walden (R) OR 2CD.

    In regard to the fix for MI/FL I advocated caucuses because I knew it was the only affordable method, I knew that from being from a state with a State Party trying to find an alternative if our leg. went ahead with a jump plan that DNC had already disallowed. Our State Party prevailed and we stayed at, yes, May 20th. gasp!!!!we counted…

    I wonder why I lose my mind when people with no idea of how things work shoot off their mouths (keyboards). I wonder why I get so pissed when people assert all politicians are dirty.

  95. 95
    Rtard says:

    The Clinton folks seem to have figured out that their direct, negative attacks on Obama weren’t working. But too many people have taken the end that approach as an acknowledgment from the Clintons that the race is over.

    When are you blockheads gonna realize that Larry Johnson and Joe Wilson were frauds and will remain so til the end of day and if there is a tape Larry’s just playing mindfuck waiting to pull the plug on youtude?

    I say this because you guys keep trying to analyze the Clintons “The Clinton folks seem to have figured out that their direct” like a bunch of fuds. Wake up. Those “attacks” ARE coming straight from the house of Sid Vicious, Joe and Larry and you all used to love these idiots. It would be sad if it weren’t hilarious.

  96. 96
    Bedlam UK says:

    @ Dreggas

    thanks for the link, I was wondering about the general public in Florida and their feelings in all this.

    I just wish that could have been read out to Hillary and then asked her “where were you in the months before the ‘straw vote’?”

  97. 97
    Luminaria says:

    Does she even take questions at these rallies/speeches?

    I don’t understand why the punditocracy is so positive that she’s in it for a VP-ship. They can’t seem to shake that notion.

  98. 98
    mere mortal says:

    Simply unreal.

    At the top of the site right now is a post that pillories Clinton for making an over-the-top comparison of the Florida primary situation to various world events.

    But, blind to hypocrisy, Cole here decides to compare Clinton’s campaign to a *hostage taker*, and approvingly cites a report that calls her a thief and compares super delegates to people who commit suicide.

    Amazing. Perhaps not that amazing, all of the other fellow’s statements and metaphors must be absurd and offensive, while your own must be clever, precise, and “nail it.”

  99. 99
    Conservatively Liberal says:

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Hold it a second, let me get my breath! ……. Ok. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Go back to HillaryIs44 or No quarter, or whatever rock cowpie you crawled slithered out from underneath.

    Improved.

  100. 100
    Original Lee says:

    OK, so now we know that the Clintonistas want Obama to give up and go away because he’s too black to win in November. Apparently the point of party primaries is to test your GE message, and this whole winning delegates thing is too *patriarchal*. Yes, my children, actually competing and winning is too full of testosterone to be a valid method of selecting a candidate to run in the GE. I guess if McCain wins the Electoral College, he’s just supposed to step aside, too, because Clinton will have shown she’s the better candidate by ummm…. not winning, or something.

Trackbacks & Pingbacks

  1. […] John Cole notes the irony: After courting the white vote for months in Appalachia, Mrs. Nixon informs us that seating Florida and Michigan are akin to the Civil Rights Movement. […]

  2. […] John Cole notes the irony: After courting the white vote for months in Appalachia, Mrs. Nixon informs us that seating Florida and Michigan are akin to the Civil Rights Movement. […]

  3. […] Balloon Juice has a different but related perspective.   […]

  4. […] –John Cole offers a YOU TUBE VIDEO from October where Clinton said something quite different about Michigan. Cole writes: Once again, the hostage crisis metaphor is appropriate….What a contemptible wretch Sen. Clinton has turned out to be, and I find it stunning that many Democratic blogs who routinely bitch about the various and numerous violations of rules, law, and international agreements by the Bush administration sit by and swallow this nonsense from the Senator Clinton. […]

  5. […] More at Memeorandum: The Moderate Voice, MSNBC, PoliBlog (TM), NO QUARTER, TPM Election Central, The Confluence, Balloon Juice, Real Clear Politics, Big Head DC and Political Machine Share and Enjoy: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages. […]

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