I found this particularly amusing:
Senator Hillary Clinton’s mailing attacking Senator Barack Obama’s record on guns appears to include a striking visual gaffe: The image of the gun pictured on the face of the mailing is reversed, making it a non-existent left-handed model of the Mauser 66 rifle.
To make matters worse, a prominent gun dealer said, it’s an expensive German gun with customized features that make it clearly European.
“The gun in the photo does not exist,” said Val Forgett III, the president of Navy Arms in Martinsburg, West Virginia. Forgett’s company was Mauser’s agent in the United States when the gun was released, and who sold Mauser guns here again in the 1990s. “The bolt is facing to the left side of the receiver, making it a left-handed bolt action rifle, indicating whoever constructed and approved the mailer did not recognize the image has been reversed.”
Forgett said the error would be obvious to sportsmen.
“I find it laughable on its face,” he said. “It’s like a picture of Babe Ruth hitting right-handed.”
***“It’s a $2,200 German import – it’s hardly typical of what the average workingman in Indiana uses,” he said.
In defense of the Clinton campaign, they probably had just knocked back some boilermakers at the bowling alley after a long day in the mill or at the mine, and this is the kind of mistake you can make after a few beers and shots of whiskey and a tough day of hard labor.
The best thing about this is going to be reading the pro-Hillary websites explain this away and that the point remains about Hillary’s long tradition of pro-gun support. Hell, only an ELITIST would even notice something like this anyway, AMIRITE? Not to mention, we all know what Hillary thinks of experts, so why would she care what gun experts think, anyway? She is ready on day one, and she is a fighter, and that is all that really matters! Facts are for pansies!
I am now going to offer some unsolicited advice to the smartest woman in America and her joke of a campaign- stop trying to out-Republican the Republicans. They are better at it than you are, as they are actually Republicans.
*** Update ***
One other question- why did the smartest woman in America decide to throw away four decades of Democratic street-cred to run as a Republican-lite in the year that a Republican President is polling just above the crazification factor?
The Grand Panjandrum
Yep. Just dress me in a tutu and call me Tinkerbell.
El Cid
Some poster at Daily Kos said that it was actually a sniper rifle. I have no idea and will not search, so someone say.
Dennis - SGMM
Most of the poachers I know use 30-30 Marlin lever guns with a low power scope. Only gun with double triggers most Americans are familiar with is the side-by-side 12 Gauge – or if you’re really lucky a 10 Gauge Barker – shotgun. I don’t know whether or not Clinton’s grandfather taught her to shoot straight but he sure as hell didn’t teach her to talk straight.
John Cole
I am pretty sure mauser’s were ised as sniper rifles. No idea which make and models, but it was mentioned in the article I linked to above.
KRK
Hey! I passed the bar my first try, unlike some people.
Anyway, smart is as smart does. Hillary’s certainly intelligent, but she’s losing ground in the smarts department.
El Doh
It would have been especially funny if it were a sniper rile, but it’s a hunting rifle, it would appear.
Sniper variant looks rather different.
jake
OK. This is just sad.
Possible Spin:
1. Bu-but, Hillary just wants Americans to know that she supports gun rights for the persecuted south paws out there.
2. Val Forgett III is an Obamabot who is just trying to make Hillary look foolish. I’m pretty sure my best friend’s dad’s cousin had a left handed Mouser 99 rifle so that proves the gun exists.
3. Who gives a cares what some gun-maker says. He’s practically a murderer anyway!
4. How dare people make fun of the gun Hillary used to hunt ducks with her daddy!
Dennis - SGMM
Nope. It’s a commendable and accurate hunting arm but it’s no sniper rifle. The idea of double set triggers is that that you pull the first trigger to prepare the piece to fire and then the second trigger fires the weapon with a very light trigger pull which translates to not pulling the weapon off of the point of aim. That’s okay but it transforms making a shot into a two step process. Better to have one trigger and tailor it to how you want the trigger to break.
demimondian
Maybe Hillary’s dad had a custom-made left-handed bolt-action rifle? You know, those super-duper-seecrit-snaipurs got sum seshul weaponry n stuff…maybe that’s what happened?
The truf is out there, u know…
jake
Wow. A non-existent version of the European version of a gun that is no longer made.
That’s a three pooch screw right there.
Voice of Reason
That’s the hand-crafted Mauser she used to kill that duck as a little girl.
The Grand Panjandrum
It did enter my mind that the Tuzla Tigress may have personally disarmed that sniper in Bosnia. European weapon, Clinton ad … it could happen.
demimondian
Not exactly, Dennis. The rifle, as shown, is a highly customized version of the Mauser 66 Super Match, which was normally sold as a single trigger bolt action hunting rifle. However, in the late seventies and early eighties, there was, in fact, a sniper rifle configuration sold.
(Source: http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn45-e.htm)
demimondian
Correction: the rifle, as shown, is a highly customized version of the Mauser 66 Super Match, built only for a short while is Bosnia during the late nineties. The original…
Dennis - SGMM
Then the picture would have been of a Dragunov which fired the hard-hitting but erratically manufactured 7.62X54 Russian rifle round. The Tuzla Tigress may have wanted to spare our tender sensibilities the sight of a sniper rifle with a box magazine and a wide-aperture scope.
nightjar
The many faces of Ranger HIlly.
Adam
… and a roar of approval erupts from the pro-Hillary cricket gallery!
Oh wait that’s just the sound of crickets chirping
Dennis - SGMM
Yep, but the sniper version has a single trigger. I own a WWII 8mm Mauser battle rifle that’s a tack driver over open sights.
booner
Right-handed people are elitist anyway.
Dennis - SGMM
Addendum: acually, the tack would be obliterated. That 8mm Mauser is a big slug.
Adam
Dennis:
YOU ELITIST
Dennis - SGMM
Well, my favorite firearm is a decades-old SKS rifle manufactured in Yugoslavia. Must have been a Monday gun because it is eerily accurate. Fires a 7.62X39 round and maintains accuracy despite what kind of second-world ammo I feed it.
Dennis - SGMM
And yes, I am a heavily armed Liberal.
DougJ
I think he’s polling below the crazifaction factor. I put the crazifaction factor at about a third of the population. Bush is at 28%.
Just cos you’re crazy doesn’t mean you’re stupid.
jake
You know that makes the Brown Squirts’ heads assplode.
Now what the hell is a Monday Gun? I’m thinking it’s fire arm you take to school to show you don’t like Mondays.
demimondian
No — a Monday gun is a gun manufactured on a Monday. It was the only day of the week when the workers were sober enough that the products actually worked.
Dennis, do you have the full serial number on the weapon? A lot of the products built in the factories there had the DOW encoded in the serial number, and you can actually determine whether something was a Monday or a Wednesday item. Soviet shoppers would bribe shopkeepers for such items to be withheld.
El Doh
Sober on a Monday? I would have thought after a hard weekend’s drinking… :)
demimondian
The Soviet equivalent was a “Wednesday gun”, actually — Payday was Friday, so on Monday, everyone was hungover, Tuesday everyone was still a little queasy, Wednesday they were actually working, Thursday they were looking forward to Friday, Friday, they were already lubricated for the weekend.
demi “product of the cold war” mondian
myiq2xu
Gee John, you hated the shit out of Hillary when you were a Repugnant, now you claim to be a Democrat and accuse her of being a member of your former party.
She hasn’t changed.
Hillary has been a Democrat longer than you’ve been alive. You abandoned your party like a rat deserting a sinking ship, now you consider yourself the judge of who belongs in the Democratic party.
Fck Yo
The only thing missing is “U”
myiq2xu
And it will ruin the week of whatever it hits.
Gun control is hitting your target.
protected static
I’m guessing it’s one that was manufactured on Monday, ie. by a worker relaxed and refreshed from his weekend – or by a worker who’s only had one day to drink on the job instead of a whole week’s worth of slivovitz consumption.
Incertus
You’re right. She was a panderer when she voted for the AUMF. She was a panderer when she introduced anti flag-burning legislation. She was a panderer when she went batshit about video game violence. And she’s a panderer now.
protected static
…and I see I’m not too far off the mark.
Zuzu
Oh God, and it’s only May.
slippy hussein toad
Yes, because we all needed you to explain to us what syllable was missing! Whose IQ?
jake
Hah! Silly commies. Here in the U.S. of A our workers were perfectly capable of fucking things up all week long and without the benefit of booze. They became so efficient manufacturers had to send their jobs to China where young children fuck things up without the benefit of food.
myiq2xu
From wiki:
There is nothing else to say.
protected static
Ah! And there’s the crux of the issue in a nutshell…
myiq2xu
What’s the matter? You sound like you’re choking on something.
Incertus
Wow. There’s weak, and then there’s you.
zoe from pittsburgh
Has everyone here actually seen the ad???
Are we completely sure it’s from Hillary’s campaign and not from the NRA? In all seriousness, it’s really hard to tell. If I had received that ad in the mail I would have assumed it was from the NRA or GOP.
The truly bizarro part is that as far as I know her stance on gun laws is COMPLETELY IDENTICAL to his. Just how stupid does she think people who own guns are?
jake
Exactly. Let’s get back to the big ol’ FAIL of an ad that was meant to show Hillarity is BFF with America’s gun owners.
myiq2xu
Thank you for pointing out I am “not-weak”
zoe from pittsburgh
myiq2xfu–
It’s one thing to argue with people, defend Clinton and so on, but it’s another thing entirely to start telling the blogger to fuck off just because you disagree with him. If there were any doubt left about your status as an asshole troll you just erased it.
To everyone who isn’t myiq2sfu– isn’t it silent treatment time?
nightjar
The Hillbot trolls are now quoting Ted Nugent, wingnut rocker and crazyass Bushphile. What’s the world coming to gracie.
cbear
Then why are you sending me into those 7-11’s with that rusty old Sears .22? Some pal….
schlagle
Really?!? Look, I’m no Hillary fanboy but this is kinda ridiculous. Somebody had an image of a gun they wanted to use on an envelope and needed to compensate for the layout of an envelope (where the receiver’s address goes) and they flip the image. So what? If it was Republicans doing this bullsh** to an Obama mailer wouldn’t everybody be saying “big deal! let’s get back to the issues!”?
I think everyone needs to take a nice deep breath.
John Cole
What issue would that be- how Obama is elitist and out of touch, or an angry black man with an angry black preacher? Or how he doesn’t care about the middle class because he won’t cut gas taxes. Which one of the important issues Clinton has brought up lately should we discuss?
cbear
Ted Nugent, Hillary Clinton, and Joe Lieberman walk into a bar………
demimondian
cbear…let me let you in on a little secret.
RUSTY WEAPONS DON’T FIRE!
Oh, sorry. Did I scream at you? Sorry, recruit. Just forgot myself.
Have you actually ever taken your “weapon” there out on the range? Ever actually, you know, used it on a target? Ever actually hit a bulls eye with it?
No, you haven’t. Cause IT WON’T SHOOT A PEA, you nut brained bone rock headed idi…
Sorry.
Now, look, kid — as long as you thought the gun would go “bang”, you were fine…so long as you went into 7-11’s, where the clerks are told not to resist even the least little bit unless you actually try anything stupid. At least, as long as you gave him all the money when you left. But what did you think the first time you held any of it back? The first time you ever gave back only $45 of the $50 you’d just stolen?
Yeah…you just think about that…
Incertus
Oh no. You’re beyond weak. But I wouldn’t expect someone with such a high IQ to understand that.
demimondian
You’re right — the layout is clearly driving the photoshopping that happened. It’s obvious.
That’s not the point. The point is that on a GUN MAILER aimed at “white working class democratic men”, you don’t pick (a) a very expensive weapon, (b) that’s been made even more expensive by customization, and (c) which would never have been made at all except as some rich man’s folly unless you are totally out of touch with the aforementioned “wwcdm” — if any of them actually exist in Indiana any more.
So John is pointing out that Hillary and her team are fundamentally out of touch with the voters that she claims to be representing. The weapon itself? A bogus issue. What it represents? The biggest issue.
cbear
Demi, er, umm, you do realize that this was a joke based on an earlier thread, don’t you?
Derek
I can’t stand the Clinton campaign nor the candidate herself, but I think this is just a silly thread and point to make.
Not having seen the ad, but knowing a little about publications and advertising, I’d guess that the graphic was simply reversed to work better in the pamphlet’s design. Sometimes, when something is facing left or right, it actually really makes a difference in how it comes together as a composition. It happens all the time in magazine pictures or advertisements. Layout artists simply make certain choices because it looks more appealing facing this way rather than that– so they flip a negative or flip the image on Photoshop. Big deal.
For example, you see yourself in a mirror every day, but when you see a photograph of yourself, it might look a little … off… to you. Not that it’s wrong (that’s how others see you) but you are used to your face looking certain way. So it is with publications and the graphics used on them.
I doubt this was an example of gun ignorance (though I’m not about to defend Clinton’s 2nd amendment, NRA bone fides), but more a matter of graphic effectiveness.
Then again, I haven’t seen the design of the handout. This is just a guess.
cay
But isn’t Obama French (European) who knows nothing of guns? It’s strategery!
KRK
Wait, wait! I know this one!
some guy
u=0 is suffering from some serious CDS–Clinton Declining Syndrome.
Cain
Let me guess, Ted and Joe found a motel afterwards since they found each other more attractive than Hillary no matter how much they drank?
I’m sorry that was mean. :-)
cain
schlagle
My point was that this is more of the politics of distraction. I think we’re obsessing on a really trivial layout choice for the most part. There is so much crap that the Clinton campaign has done to be genuinely angry about.
It just smacks of the pettiness I expect from the right. Sorry.
myiq2xu
Does “incertus” mean “daisy” or “hairy?”
demimondian
Which one? The running joke about you and Dennis as partners in crime? No, I hadn’t noticed it before.
And, of course, I’m incapable of playing along. I mean, I can’t possibly imagine what, exactly, is going to happen to the junior member of the crime spree when he’s hauled in by the cops. How do you think he’s going to be treated by the hard boiled, world-weary detective assigned to question the poor loser of a kid crook? He’s gonna put up this facade of protecting his father figure/older conspirator — who’s the guy the cops really want to nail, after all. (Do you think this stupid kid is the first one the older guy’s suckered in?)
So, what is the detective going to do? He’s going to play up the betrayal until the kid realizes that he’s been had, and that he’s being used…
Incertus
I thought a person as smart as you would know Latin. It means “uncertain.” I don’t claim to know everything, which is why I chose it as internet name over 4 years ago. It’s also an homage of sorts to Seamus Heaney, who used it as a non de plume when he was a student.
But even so, I bow to your superior intellect.
schlagle
demimondian I’m not picking on you, just using your quote because it just fits the point I’m trying to make really well.
And that point is… I own guns. I’ve been around and shooting guns my whole life. I wouldn’t think twice about that image because I’m smart enough to know that it was made by some campaign employee who threw it together on a moments notice. What I would be paying attention to is what the mailer actually says. You know, the issue.
Now, of course I know she’s full of it on this (and many more) issue. But that’s another point
nightjar
Hillary showing her muscle on the campaign trail.
just can’t help myself.
Joe Max
I haven’t seen the ad, but I fail to see why this is such a big deal. A camapign runs an ad about the subject of gun control. So they need gun artwork, and get clip art form somewhere. The designer flips the image horizontally for reasons of layout.
This is as idiotic as an ad being run for, say, Mothers Against Drunk Driving, that features a wrecked car image. A bunch of car geeks start ragging on and on about how the headlights that look like a 1997 Honda don’t match the body shape of the wrecked car, which is clearly an Lexis. Obviously, MADD doesn’t know a damn thing about cars like real Amur-cans! And using an eee-lee-tist car like a Lexis shows how out-of-touch they really are with REAL mothers who’s children were killed by drunks – who mostly drive Chveys!!! ZOMG!!!11!1!
Oh please. Is there any bit of irrelevant non-gaffe that can’t be used as a club to beat on Clinton with?
jake
The bartender says “No dogs allowed!”
And they all walk out.
Martin
Exactly. And people like me were too dumb to see it until recently. Others seem to not mind getting lied to, so long as they’re happy lies.
KRK
I’m just a bystander to this curious exchange, but it seems that what was displayed was at best a little half-assed Googling. (Inspired, no doubt, by an inability to come up with anything at all related to the thread topic.)
schlagle
The add can be viewed on a diary over on the Great Orange Satan:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/5/4/2019/37925/478/509057
Genine
Wow, that’s really showing someone you care: making sure crimes are done safely.
That’s real love.
And yes, the picture might be a little petty, but its just pointing out Hillary’s blatant pandering and how its going awry. Also, when one is acting petty, they open themselves up to the same.
And Hillary’s been very, very petty and its been disappointing to a lot of people that believed in her and felt she was somehow different from Bush, Rove, Cheney and Co.
Zuzu
Crazyass doesn’t even start to describe it. Why isn’t HE being rushed off by SS agents?
Ted throws a nutty
zoe from pittsburgh
Forget the gun in the ad, it’s the text of the ad that is compltely and totally ridiculous on its face. Hillary is trying to portray Obama as as some kind of “gun grabber” while their positions on gun control are virtually identical.
Hillary is trying to manipulate her image– and damage Obama’s– without changing her own policies. Not to mention ripping about a chapter out of the GOP’s campaign handbook.
Nice job, Hill. If you don’t get the nomination are you going to join Lieberman and become an “independent democrat” too? Or are you just going to revert back to your GOP roots and change sides?
John Cole
Winner.
Andrew
I think that a sharps rifle with a double set trigger sure would make a fine target rifle to play with on a thousand yard range.
cbear
Jeez Louise Demi, forget I mentioned it.
jake
You can click on the link John provided.
cbear
Jeebus, that is funny. rotflmao funny.
Jess
Well, most of us saw that, but some of us thought she was nonetheless a competent, intelligent panderer with some worthwhile substance under the political gamesmanship (gamespersonship?). Oh well.
EXACTLY what I’ve been asking myself. It strikes me that both the Clintons and Wright are fighting old battles and are just now realizing that the nature of the fight is changing and that they are now becoming irrelevant. Hence all the friendly fire directed towards the new generation of fighters. Sad, but human. I’m disappointed and disgusted, but I can’t hate them. It takes a lot of ego as well as courage to fight the battles they’ve taken on, and now their egos have gotten the better of them. It was bound to happen.
nightjar
Geez man, lighten up. This is called having fun and pretty tame fun at that. Sillyness now and then is the antidote for the madness called politics in America.
Rick Taylor
I never knew what people meant when they said Hillary would do “anything” to win. I still don’t really think she’d do “anything” to win, but she sure would do a lot. She’d chug beer and toss back a shot glass whiskey to look like one of the people, and pose with a gun. She’d propose a gas tax holiday that is a complete pander, that no reputable economist of any orientation will defend, and accuse any congressman who oppose it of elitism and not standing with the people. She’ll saber rattle on television threatening to “obliterate” Iran. While she won’t generally initiate slander by association, when it gets started she’ll certainly jump on board. She’ll intimate that if her opponent is nominated under the rules and terms everyone agreed to going in, the result will be illegitimate. And she’ll fight to count delegates from an unsanctioned primary she and her opponent agreed not to participate in which she stated publicly in advance wouldn’t count, one in which her opponent didn’t appear on the ballot. I was originally a Hillary supporter, but I’m floored. It’s a great pity too, because by all accounts, she’s extremely able on policy. I remember in Iowa she said she found her voice, but that was a very brief moment.
And for all those who’re going to argue this is good because it means she’ll do what it takes to win, she’s not even winning. Even with her incredible name recognition, her ample finances at the beginning, endorsements and support from politicians indebted to the Clintons (who get called Judas if they stray), she’s still loosing.
cbear
I just watched Beat the Meat w/ Timmah Russert (I have one of those elitist DVRs) and did a little timing experiment.
The first 23 minutes are solely devoted to Rev. Wright.
At 31 minutes there is a 5 minute ad break.
The program effectively ends at 52 minutes and everything else is ad time.
According to my unscientific analysis, that’s—
23 minutes of scary negro stuff and 24 minutes of other less important stuff.
Thanks Timmy.
Ted
Oh now, this is the good stuff. Angry, ANGRY Myiq!
Love it.
isit2009yet
Anyone point out that Obama is LEFT handed??
PeterJ
McCain is a southpaw too. And so is/was Ford, Reagan, Bush Sr, and Bill Clinton.
If only Bill wasn’t, then this could be the next attack from Hillary. Left handed being the devil’s people and so on…
Notorious P.A.T.
I’m not sure exactly what you mean. The biggest policy quetion of the decade–whether or not to inade Iraq–Hillary failed completely. Sure, her health care plan is good, but why should I believe she would actually try to implement it when she has taken so much money from insurance companies? And then there’s the gas tax holiday.
I can’t think of any brilliant policies she tried to enact in her 8 years in the Senate; I do, however, remember an anti-flag-burning amendment.
p.lukasiak
Good lord.
You Obots are truly desperate, if you think this is going to be an issue….
Doug H. (Fausto no more)
I think its an issue that the Clinton campaign expects those ‘white working-class’ voters to believe that one of the leaders of the Million Mom March is now Hillary Heston.
Bob In Pacifica
Hmmm. I vaguely remember when I qualified on the M-16, because I was left-eyed (my left eye was dominant), I had to have my head on the wrong side of the weapon when I fired it.
Andrew
We don’t. We’re at the mocking and laughing stage now with your loser candidate.
Tsulagi
Someone in Hillary’s group doesn’t know their weapons. A Mauser, and especially one with a double set trigger assembly? In a mirror reverse image. What, they never heard of Winchester or Remington, the Ford and Chevy of American made rifles? That’s the first thing the target audience would focus on and get a laugh rather than Barack Obama’s position on guns.
Pussy. One of the family hand-me-down rifles I have in one of my gun cabinets is an 11mm Mauser. Sucker tosses a 370 grain slug. With the original steel butt plate instead of a pansy rubber recoil pad. Fire that bastard and your shoulder knows it.
libarbarian
Hillary Clinton has more gun-grabber in her little pinky than Obama has in his whole body.
For her to attack Obama on that issue, when she has already demonstrated blatant hostility towards American gun owners during her long public life, is simply ridiculous.
Justin
Clinton is more progressive than Obama on health care.
Clinton is more progressive than Obama on Social Security.
Clinton has promised to curb the privatization of the military, which is more progressive than Obama.
Both candidates promise to get us out of Iraq.
I think Senator Obama is a fine candidate for President, and more progressive than John McCain. But I find it interesting that you refer to Clinton as running as “Republican-lite” when a great many people are still hoping for a Hillary win because they think Obama is ‘running as Republican-lite.’
Lest we forget, John, you used to hate teh liberals because ‘they want to take our guns.’ Surprise, there are a lot of people still riddled with this misconception and don’t realize that we just don’t want assault weapons in the hands of violent and/or unstable people. I think it’s poor taste to attack Obama in an attempt to reassure these voters, but obsessing over the choice of gun used in the picture is silliness.
The Other Steve
It would have been more fun if the picture had been a Ruger .22 with a folding stock, and a 50 round clip.
You know… an “Assault Weapon”.
protected static
Then why isn’t she, you know, highlighting those differences instead of playing Republican-lite?
Birdzilla
They both have abismle records on gun control they both reject our 2nd amendment rights and support strict gun bans like any other socialists scoundrels
Ravi J
She made that Ad at 3:00 AM. That’s why the mistake.
Justin
She has been highlighting them. It’s just that if all you’re plugged into is the MSM (and now the blogosphere) you rarely hear anything about it. Instead, we have seen a constant pattern of attempts to discredit Clinton by any means necessary — remember her story that she related about the woman who died because she was turned away at a hospital, that she used as a frame from which to discuss the need for truly universal health care? (The story turned out to be 100% true of course.) The problem here seems to be the definition of “Republican-lite” – maybe you could define that for me without using sheer assertion. In my perspective, and in the perspective of a significant segment of progressives, Obama has been campaigning as Republican-lite in that he has taken decidedly less progressive stands on major issues, and made a point of pressing his case on them. I think this is important to discuss if we’re going to understand each other – I got a call from the Obama campaign yesterday with a staffer doing his best to convince me that Clinton’s health care plan was sooo misguided because of the awful “mandate.” In a vacuum, this makes sense, because if all you’re going to do is “mandate” that people buy private insurance, that’s a horrible idea. However, this is a GROSS distortion of what Hillary has put forward. Not only that, but Obama is explicitly only aiming at cost reductions. Clinton has stated explicitly that she is seeking nothing less than making sure every American has health care.
Justin
By the way, the Obama campaign caller also told me that his mother “was for Hillary, but she changed to Obama because she just wants it to be over.” I have a sneaking suspicion that the unity crap is a major driving factor behind the perceived need to smear and swift-boat the Clinton campaign.
Dayv
Seriously, Hillary Clinton is the smartest woman in America now?
I had no idea you were such a misogynist, John.