Where Do They Come Up With This Shit?

Mary Katharine Ham:

Gee, I wonder why Obama, the anti-political posturer, disowned Wright today. My dad got a call last night that might explain.

I got some more information about that call.

It was a live call last night around 7 p.m., not a robocall.

Where do these wingnuts come up with this perception? I see the same sort of crap from the Hillary Clinton blogs and the pro-Clinton commenters- this notion that Obama supporters are somehow unaware that Barack Obama is *GASP* a politician.

He is a United States Senator. He is running for the highest political office in the land. He is a politician. We are aware of this. Trying to change the tone and tenor in Washington as well as how politics is conducted is not apolitical, and we are all aware of this. What we reject is the current status of our politics, not the notion of politics. What we see in Obama is a chance to change the nature of our current political mess.

What we don’t see is Obama as apolitical. That is just stupid. Some might say it is TOWNHALL stupid.

So, attention wingnuts- We are aware Obama is a politician, and your attempt at witty comments aren’t breaking news to us. All it is doing is proving that we are right to think you are a moron.






140 replies
  1. 1
    t4toby says:

    HTML Mencken will not be pleased that you are talking smack on his girlfriend.

  2. 2
    myiq2xu says:

    Wow John! Thanks for pointing that out.

    What a crock of shit.

    I was still supporting Edwards on this blog when I started getting bashed by the Obots for pointing out that Obama was a politician.

    You yourself coined the “Unity Pony” meme because of the bullshit you know deny.

  3. 3
    myiq2xu says:

    Make that “now dwny.”

  4. 4
    myiq2xu says:

    Transcend- The New Gravitas
    By: John Cole January 13, 2008 at 3:16 pm
    ——————————————————————————–

    That Obama, no wonder he has everyone eating out of his hands. Why, look at this partial list of the things he has “transcended”:

    1.) Political and Ideological Divisions- “Senator Obama has shown that he can transcend the ideological and partisan divisions that have paralyzed our politics for far too long and inspire people to believe again in the promise of America,” Maryland Comptroller Peter Franchot said.

    2.) Inhibitions- “Obama would bring to the White House a rich tradition of radical instincts, drawn from the dispossessed in the United States. That he spent his childhood outside the US and maintains contact with relations as far away as East Africa allows him to transcend the inhibitions of black Americans.”

    3.) Racial Divides- He offers “African Americans an opportunity to get their first black President and whites the chance to transcend the tired racial divides of the past.”

    4.) Racial Wounds- “By allowing voters to both vent their anger and overcome it, while embodying the transcendence of America’s racial wound, Barack Obama offers not just hope, but alchemy.”

    5.) Certain Kinds of Politics: “Every time either Clinton or one of their surrogates attack Mr. Obama, they stand as reminders of the kind of politics that Mr. Obama has vowed to transcend.”

    6.) Politics, power politics, and the politics of blue and red state: “Obama once transcended our politics, or so the fawning media narrative goes, allegedly transcending the politics of race, the old power politics, the politics of division between those red and blue states.”

    7.) Class barriers: ‘His supporters point to his extraordinary intellect, his work as a civil rights lawyer and lecturer in constitutional law, his charismatic talent to inspire and his ability to transcend both racial and class barriers.”

    8.) Categories: Steele notes Obama “seems to have little talent for anger.” That’s because Obama has opted out of the transaction Steele vigorously deplores. The political implications of this transcendence of confining categories are many, profound and encouraging.

    9.) Baby Boomer Angst: “And this conservative believes Obama can help us transcend baby boomer angst.”

    10.) Old Politics: “I don’t think that Obama’s rhetoric about transcending old politics tells us much about how he’ll actually govern.”

    11.) Washington’s endemic partisanship- “Obama ran as a conciliator who would transcend Washington’s endemic partisanship by building new coalitions.”

    12.) Political Parties, generations, and nations: “Obama’s appeal would transcend political parties, generations, and nations.”

    13.)
    Blackness and Whiteness: “There are lots of discussions about how Obama will “transcend race”…this is usually read as “transcending blackness”…but Obama must also (as Williams alludes to) “transcend” his whiteness and the increasing narrow expectations and contradiction of what makes a leader and “a black leader.”

    14.) Polarization: “The polarization Obama wishes to transcend in this country has not emerged simply because of the combative style of Newt Gingrich or Karl Rove.”

    15.) Tedious conflict between the opposing strands of the baby-boomer generation- “Other writers projected into the Iowa caucus victory nothing less than an end to the “culture wars” and now tedious conflict between the opposing strands of the baby-boomer generation: the Haight-Ashbury hippies and the Rush Limbaugh rednecks. One usually sober Britisher seemed to suggest that the responsibility for the hatreds that have divided Americans socially rested almost entirely with two families: the Bushes and the Clintons. Now, with the help of galvanised youth, Mr Obama could transcend all this.”

    Personally, the closer I look at Obama and his unity pony, the less I like. However, even I have to agree he has ‘transcended’ a lot of things.

    *** Update ***

    Obama has apparently “transcended” child labor laws.

    Does this ring any bells?

  5. 5
    nightjar says:

    It goes to the nutty messiah meme simply because people like what he has to say and have chosen to enthusiastically support his candidacy in large numbers. With every passing day, I am beginning to believe this offensive bullshit is actually a proxy for “no blacks may apply for the Presidency”, which, of course they don’t dare say out loud. And I send a special fuck you to the democrats who promote this meme.

  6. 6
    John Cole says:

    Yes- I was making fun of both the more vociferous of Obama supporters as well as the use of the term “transcend.”

    Transcend has been abused almost as much as the word gravitas in 2000.

    You still haven’t pointed out to where I thought he was a political, though.

  7. 7
    myiq2xu says:

    BTW, for fun, I have decided that I am going to compile a list of things that Obama supporters claim he has transcended. Off the top of my head, we have race and politics.

    This was from the original “Unity Pony” post.

  8. 8
    El Cid says:

    The Party of the Holy Ghost of Ronald Reagan, Whose Tears Inspired by America’s Beautiful Mornings Carved Our Grand Canyon, are horrified at the notion that a mere politician would dare claim to transcend old and stale political boundaries.

  9. 9
    t4toby says:

    I think it is funny that people want to attack Obama when he has energized an entire disenfranchised segment of the voting population.

    Of course he’s a politician. He’s from Chicago no less, which makes him probably quite crooked. But he’s by far the best of the three we have to pick from, so what are you gonna do?

    A vote against the Dem nominee (whichever it may be…)is a vote for another Alito on the SCOTUS. I certainly don’t want to go there .

  10. 10
    t jasper parnell says:

    I just watched the Wright speech, leaving aside the Aids stuff, what was so awful?

  11. 11
    Jeff says:

    myiq2xu:

    Huh? You’re pointing to a post where John is actually making fun of people saying that Obama has “transcended” politics as your proof that John used to say that Obama was apolitical? Wow.

  12. 12

    ZOMG! A politician. Oh, noes. Now I’ll have to go back to supporting Pat Paulsen.

    Looks like HRC got played to a standstill in the endorsement contest today.

    But he’s not the most popular state government employee — not by a long shot. That honor belongs to Roy Williams — the men’s basketball coach at the University of North Carolina.

    And this morning, while Gov. Easley was talking up Sen. Clinton, Ol’ Roy took Barack Obama on a tour of the Dean Dome and then organized a little scrimmage where the Illinois senator got to shoot some hoops with a whole bunch of current and former Tar Heels.

    Looks like Obama has the gravitas to throw Wright under the bus and transcend every politicians nightmare: missed layups.

    Now, can someone please pass the corn liquor over here. Its warm, windy and I’ve worked up a mighty thirst.

  13. 13

    Hey John,

    I just wanted to let you know that I now go to your blog, even to read old posts, whenever the third-degree burns from the stupid act up. I think the reason you’ve become an Obama supporter is the reason why this blog is an oasis: because the stupid is thick and unrelenting in the mainstream media while Obama is refreshingly sane, stable, and mature. And your blog and your bloggers – on any topic – are also sane. Not so stable, and probably not mature, but sanity is enough in these dark times.

    Thanks.

  14. 14
    nightjar says:

    Personally, the closer I look at Obama and his unity pony, the less I like. However, even I have to agree he has ‘transcended’ a lot of things.

    Another one of myiqxu howling scoops. But, the big question is left unanswered has JC attended any parties with bad people, did he once know someone who once criticized America, or George W. Bush (Ok, scratch that one). These are the questions
    that need to be answered Myiq2xu. I’m sure you’ll get right on it.

  15. 15
    John Cole says:

    I just watched the Wright speech, leaving aside the Aids stuff, what was so awful?

    Beats me. Refusing to crucify Farrakhan was apparently a sin.

    I dunno, I just don’t know why Obama has to apologize for his former pastor. I have hung out with some crazy people in the past, and I am sure a bunch of them are in jail. I hope I am not responsible for whatever they say or do.

  16. 16
    TR says:

    I lived in NC for eight years. The Roy Williams endorsement will be twice as meaningful as the governor’s.

  17. 17
    flyerhawk says:

    While I’m sure that some of the younger Obama supporters were all doe-eyed about Obama and truly believing he was the MUP, I don’t that this applies to most people that support him.

    The main reason I supported him from the start is because I believe he is a political assassin who could absolutely crush the Republicans much like FDR did and how Reagan did to the Democrats.

    Do I think he is above politics? FUCK NO!!! I think he is really good at them because he combines politically savvy intuition with beguiling charisma.

    He is the sort of politician that the GOP will go apeshit over because they just won’t understand why people don’t see through him as he passes bill after bill that are mildly progressive and wholly noxious to the GOP.

  18. 18
    John Cole says:

    Huh? You’re pointing to a post where John is actually making fun of people saying that Obama has “transcended” politics as your proof that John used to say that Obama was apolitical? Wow.

    And not to mention I was making fun of the pack mentality of all using the word transcend. But I have stated this twice, and if you look at the title of the old post, it is clear what I was referring to- ‘Transcend- The New Gravitas.’

  19. 19
    t4toby says:

    Is youriqreally2xmine?

    I visited your blog, Mr High IQ.

    Can I get a ‘Sadly, No!’?

    And when do we get a code for the interrobang, anyways?

  20. 20
    vwcat says:

    Maybe the Hillary cult thinks because they see her as an icon and holy that obama supporters must see him the same way.
    Listen, I have been supporting Barack Obama since summer of 04 when he was running for senator in my state of Illinois.
    Believe me, Illinois knows politicians. Anyone who cannot figure out that if you are running for elected office that that person is a politician, they should not be voting.

  21. 21
    t jasper parnell says:

    Beats me. Refusing to crucify Farrakhan was apparently a sin.

    Is that what the flap is about?

    Given the Hagee non-flap it’s okay to hang with clearly crazy preachers if you are McCain.

  22. 22
    vwcat says:

    Double, sorry. Wanted to add, when a Hillary supporter goes to the length that Barbara Reynolds did to get Wright to speak at the press club, that is a true cult member of the koolaid crowd.
    Who is Reynolds?

    http://www.dailykos.com/storyo.....514/505946

  23. 23
    Martin says:

    John,

    myiq was clearly saying that humor is no excuse for this kind of behavior. I think I finally realize why he’s been so hostile – he’s offended that we literally believe that Obama is a pony and is magical.

    Clearly the things myiq was saying that we thought was humor was actually him being dead serious. I’ve already called the FBI. Someone will be kicking in his door and checking his bathroom for fishtank chemicals momentarily.

  24. 24
    Idiotic says:

    THIS IS EXCELLENT NEWS!! FOR HILLARY!!

  25. 25
    rob! says:

    Hillarybots think Obamabots are stupid, because they themselves are stupid, and they know it–and they just CAN’T BELIEVE anyone out there might be smarter than them, kinda like how Hillary CAN’T BELIEVE she’s losing this thing.

    the reality can’t be right, so it MUST be something else–yes, Obamabots think he’s Jesus 2.0! THAT’S GOTTA BE IT!

  26. 26
    zoe from pittsburgh says:

    If this is the worst thing that Obama has to do to get elected then I consider him pretty lucky.

    Our stupid state of pollyanna politics not only requires shameless flag-hugging but it also demands that candidates not have a critical eye when they view America’s ugly past– otherwise they’re called anti-American and cannot get elected. As a country we continue to confuse nationalism and patriotism. It’s just a political reality.

    Until that reality changes this is what Obama has to do. That being said, I don’t think this was merely a PR move– I think Obama isn’t going to sleep too well tonight due to a little heartsickness.

  27. 27
    Corner Stone says:

    “I think it is funny that people want to attack Obama when he has energized an entire disenfranchised segment of the voting population.”

    Republicans and faux-Independents who have no intention of showing up on general election day?

  28. 28
    ThymeZone says:

    Of course Obama is a politician. Not many young black guys succeed in Chicago politics and then pull together the team necessary to run a successfull national campaign and beat the power machine at its own game, without being good at politics.

    And in October when we have the GE debates, we will see just how good a politician he is, as he ropes and ties and drags the dottering corpse of his opposition off the rodeo ground.

  29. 29
    ThymeZone says:

    Of course Obama is a politician. Not many young black men succeed in Chicago politics and then pull together the team necessary to run a successfull national campaign and beat the power machine at its own game, without being good at politics.

    And in October when we have the GE debates, we will see just how good a politician he is, as he ropes and ties and drags the dottering corpse of his opposition off the rodeo ground.

  30. 30
    t4toby says:

    How about young people, Corner Stone? It isn’t uncommon to see Junior High and High School students at his rallies.

    Can you tell me anyone else who is engaging the traditionally ‘over it’ youth?

  31. 31
    Matt says:

    Ah, yes, “myiq2xu”…only true for all values of u

  32. 32
    zoe from pittsburgh says:

    I personally wasn’t offended or outraged by anything Wright said BUT I know I’m a pretty serious liberal. So the reality is that most Americans are offended on some level by at least some of my beliefs. Knowing that, I realize why Obama had to say what he had to say today. Reaching for a better, more enlightened politics doesn’t mean that you ignore current political realities to your own detriment– otherwise Obama would just be another Dennis Kucinich.

    Which is why my own passionate support of Obama is such a surprise because it goes against my typically cynical attitude about politics. I haven’t ever really been “excited” by a candidate before or thought that my attitude about politics would ever be reflected in a presidential candidate. I know Obama could never use the word revolution because of its radical connotations, but that is what he is talking about when he talks about “change.”

  33. 33
    Matt says:

    [sigh] I may not be much better.

    “only true for all values of u less than 12.”

  34. 34
    Dennis - SGMM says:

    Obama a politician? Next you’ll be telling me that he has several million dollars in personal wealth. Whatever happened to the good old days when the average schoolteacher or truck driver could put together a campaign with the help of a few neighbors and get elected president?

  35. 35
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    Which is why my own passionate support of Obama is such a surprise because it goes against my typically cynical attitude about politics. I haven’t ever really been “excited” by a candidate before or thought that my attitude about politics would ever be reflected in a presidential candidate. I know Obama could never use the word revolution because of its radical connotations, but that is what he is talking about when he talks about “change.”

    He was my fourth or fifth choice and I’m still not a big fan of his “different kind of politics” schtick. He says if he doesn’t win it will be because America didn’t buy into the vision he laid out, or he didn’t lay out the vision well enough. I think if he doesn’t win it will be because he didn’t punch back hard enough.

    Every debate should end with HRC sucking his big black cock. (Metaphorically of course.)

    But he’s unbeatable right now doing it his way. So I won’t pronounce the latest non-controversy The End every three days like p.luk. or petulantly use Republican talking points against him like myiq.

    Even so, calling him John Kerry with charisma doesn’t strike me as an unfair comparison. There isn’t anything revolutionary about John Kerry and there won’t be anything revolutionary about Obama except ZOMFG, a black man won the Democratic nomination. And that’s really enough to get excited about.

  36. 36
    t jasper parnell says:

    So, I went over to the NYT to find out which of Wright’s “remarks” were so offensive, and what do I discover? John Cole is now a media icon.

  37. 37
    cleek says:

    It goes to the nutty messiah meme

    which is utter bullshit, given the relative numbers of Hillary supporters who say they will vote for McCain vs. the number of Obama supporters who say the same.

    if anyone deserves the sarcastic title of “messiah”, it’s the candidate who’s supporters are far more likely to say they would rather have another 100 years of Iraq than an actual Democrat, if they can’t get their way.

  38. 38

    If Obama doesn’t disown Wright he’s a racist.

    If he disowns Wright, he’s a politician.

    If McCain doesn’t disown Hagee, it doesn’t matter.

    Thus we once again discern certain principles of Republican discourse (adopted wholeheartedly by the “liberal” media):

    (1) heads Republicans win, tails Democrats lose; and
    (2) IOKIYAR.

  39. 39
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    John Cole is now a media icon.

    Shoulda bought the balloon-juice merch sooner. Now it’s gonna go through the roof.

  40. 40
    p.lukasiak says:

    Of course, Cole misses the point once again.

    Of course he’s a politician. But Obama supporters think he’s “different”, and that he can “change the way things are done in Washington”.

    And he’s not. In fact, he’s not merely a typical politician, he’s practically proto-typical. I mean, when was the last time an “outsider” didn’t “run against Washington”. Every politician talks about being “non-partisan” and “reaching across the aisle”, blah, blah, blah.

    But the Obots insist that he’s special, and develop an insane personal/emotional attachment to his candidacy. And they wind up acting just like Republicans — falsely accusing anyone who opposes them of doing what they are actually doing.

    How many posts has Cole put up tearing down Clinton. How many times is the first reaction to anything that isn’t a glowing endorsement of Obama an attack on Clinton (or her supporters).

    IF the Obots didn’t think that Obama was a special kind of politician, they’d be able to rationally discuss Obama’s flaws as a candidate — but they can’t. Whenever confronted with his flaws, they rationalize them away.

  41. 41
    PaulB says:

    But the Obots insist that he’s special, and develop an insane personal/emotional attachment to his candidacy. And they wind up acting just like Republicans—falsely accusing anyone who opposes them of doing what they are actually doing.

    ROFLMAO…. Oh, the irony, coming from this poster. Sorry, Paul, but I decline to share your delusions.

  42. 42
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    IF the Obots didn’t think that Obama was a special kind of politician, they’d be able to rationally discuss Obama’s flaws as a candidate—but they can’t. Whenever confronted with his flaws, they rationalize them away.

    OOPS, disregard my previous.

  43. 43
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    OOPS, disregard my previous.

    Previous previous I mean.

  44. 44
    Dennis - SGMM says:

    Of course, Cole misses the point once again.

    And of course, plucky didn’t miss it and goes on to explain at tedious length and with numerous insults what “the point” really is. I’m just surprised that he’s wasting his time here rather than perfecting cold fusion or perpetual motion.

  45. 45
    t jasper parnell says:

    IF the Obots didn’t think that Obama was a special kind of politician, they’d be able to rationally discuss Obama’s flaws as a candidate—but they can’t. Whenever confronted with his flaws, they rationalize them away.

    I’ll bite what flaws?

    Consider the gas tax. McCain suggested it, Clinton not only accepts its validity but uses it to beat Obama. Obama is wright (ha ha) and McCain and Clinton are wrong, so sayeth Clinton supporter Krugmann. Polls and my recent trip to the liquor store suggest that American are fed up with stupid pandering on the issues. Isn’t this incident a perfect example of why Obama is a better candidate?

  46. 46
    The Other Steve says:

    Of course he’s a politician. But Obama supporters think he’s “different”, and that he can “change the way things are done in Washington”.

    You don’t agree? Every day here you keep coming and telling us how different Obama is, and you think that is a reason not to support him.

    Instead we should support a part of the established old guard who has been around and is experienced and understands the inner workings of the workings.

    Do you deny this?

  47. 47
    The Other Steve says:

    One more thing.

    IF the Obots didn’t think that Obama was a special kind of politician, they’d be able to rationally discuss Obama’s flaws as a candidate—but they can’t. Whenever confronted with his flaws, they rationalize them away.

    List the top ten flaws of Hillary Clinton as a candidate.

    Hell, list five.

  48. 48
    Pb says:

    But the OHilbots insist that she’s special, and develop an insane personal/emotional attachment to hiser candidacy. And they wind up acting just like Republicans—falsely accusing anyone who opposes them of doing what they are actually doing.

    Fixed.

  49. 49
    chopper says:

    of course obama’s different. he’s way different than the last cluster of democrats we’ve had to suffer under for president. that doesn’t mean he isn’t a politician.

  50. 50
    chopper says:

    List the top ten flaws of Hillary Clinton as a candidate.

    Hell, list five.

    1-5) she’s just too awesome.

  51. 51
    The Other Steve says:

    Consider the gas tax. McCain suggested it, Clinton not only accepts its validity but uses it to beat Obama. Obama is wright (ha ha) and McCain and Clinton are wrong, so sayeth Clinton supporter Krugmann. Polls and my recent trip to the liquor store suggest that American are fed up with stupid pandering on the issues. Isn’t this incident a perfect example of why Obama is a better candidate?

    Hillary didn’t just pander, she double downed pandered.

    Her exact wording was “If we could replace the funding from some other source, I would be for a gas tax holiday.” Well given a budget deficit, she knows we’ll never replace the funding. Therefore what Hillary is really saying is she is against it.

    She took the non-controversial road of trying to please everybody, which is pretty common with politicians. Attacking Obama with her double down pandering, however, was pretty lame. We all know she doesn’t mean what she is saying on the issue, and that’s what insults voters.

  52. 52
    Ted says:

    Of course, Cole misses the point once again.

    And of course pluk demonstrates, once again, that he is A) on the payroll of HRC’s campaign, or B) has no fucking life and hangs around this blog (of which he can’t stand the primary blogger) in order to pounce on any thread having anything to do with Obama so he can troll it. My money’s on the latter. And it’s really pathetic.

  53. 53
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    1-5) she’s just too awesome.

    I swooned a little when you said that.

    Nevermind, I just had my gaudy scarf tied too tightly around my neck.

  54. 54
    Pooh says:

    I have hung out with some crazy people in the past, and I am sure a bunch of them are in jail. I hope I am not responsible for whatever they say or do.

    I played HS basketball with a guy who’s doing 25-to-life for murder. I have also donated to Obama. Ergo, Obama supports murderous basketball players. Why is Obama pro-murder?

  55. 55
    Pooh says:

    I played HS basketball with a guy who’s doing 25-to-life for murder. I have also donated to Obama. Ergo, Obama supports murderous basketball players. Why is Obama pro-murder?

    Edit to add “it would be irresponsible NOT to speculate”

  56. 56
    The Other Steve says:

    List the top ten flaws of Hillary Clinton as a candidate.

    I obviously need to start off a list for p.luk. So let’s start off with…

    Her new chief strategist Geoffrey Garin, called for violent overthrow of the government when in college.

  57. 57
    Dennis - SGMM says:

    List the top ten flaws of Hillary Clinton as a candidate.

    Hell, list five.

    1)She hasn’t adopted enough of McCain’s talking points.
    2)She didn’t shoot back at Tuzla.
    3)She failed to reject and denounce Michael Moore.
    4)She merely threatened to attack Iran rather than threatening to bomb it back into the Stone Age.
    5)She failed to support George W. Bush sufficiently enough to get a Lieberman-style kiss on the head from W.

  58. 58
    The Other Steve says:

    AWESOME!

    Republicans gone wild.

    Nothing reinforces your cred for the GOP nomination then speaking in front of a group of Nazi’s.

  59. 59
    firebrand says:

    p.lukasiak Says:

    Blah Blah Blah…

    afanaticinthetankforhillary says what?

  60. 60
    Ted says:

    You don’t agree? Every day here you keep coming and telling us how different Obama is, and you think that is a reason not to support him.

    It is indeed a mystery just what the hell the dynamic loser duo of myiq and pluk actually think they’re accomplishing here by trolling the threads, day in and day out.

    Maybe I’m wrong. Have they convinced anyone here to vote for Hillary yet? Oh, most of your primaries are over? Anyone who lives in one the few remaining states with upcoming primaries been convinced by these trolls to vote Hillary?

    Because otherwise they’re both losers who’re wasting their time.

  61. 61
    Pooh says:

    afanaticinthetankforhillary says what?

    You almost got me there! Almost as trixy as the rickroll…

  62. 62
    Ted says:

    Edit to add “it would be irresponsible NOT to speculate”

    Peggy will see you at Gate 14.

  63. 63
    t jasper parnell says:

    Her new chief strategist Geoffrey Garin, called for violent overthrow of the government when in college.

    Perhaps he is the “new chief strategist” because violent overthrow of the Democratic Party is plan b.

  64. 64
    Pooh says:

    It is indeed a mystery just what the hell the dynamic loser duo of myiq and pluk actually think they’re accomplishing here by trolling the threads, day in and day out.

    They are actually secret agents for Obama. They have proven to be some of some of his most effective fund raises, so that’s really the only plausible scenario.

  65. 65
    Pooh says:

    Peggy will see you at Gate 14.

  66. 66
    TR says:

    They are actually secret agents for Obama. They have proven to be some of some of his most effective fund raises, so that’s really the only plausible scenario.

    That’s my theory, too. MyIQis2 alone has gotten me to donate $500 or so to Obama.

  67. 67
    t jasper parnell says:

    I meant Plan Nine but misspoke.

  68. 68
    Pooh says:

    Peggy will see you at Gate 14.

    hrm…wordpress ate my post.

    should have continued:

  69. 69
    Ted says:

    They are actually secret agents for Obama. They have proven to be some of some of his most effective fund raises, so that’s really the only plausible

    This is true. And since I’ve been procrastinating parting with the donation money for too long, I guess I can tie my donations to Obama to a simple metric like the number of Myiq comments per relevant thread (he doesn’t really comment on non-primary related subjects here anymore). Maybe $5 per troll post? Add em up at the end of a week, and send the total in.

  70. 70
    Pooh says:

    Oh for fucks sake. John just delete my 7:57, 7:58 and this one.

    When are you moving this iceberg to a real hosting platform damnit?

  71. 71
    scrutinizer says:

    Instead we should support a part of the established old guard who has been around and is experienced and understands the inner workings of the workings.

    And of course, if those are pluck’s criteria for Preznit, then McCain has it all over Clinton.

  72. 72
    chopper says:

    Her exact wording was “If we could replace the funding from some other source, I would be for a gas tax holiday.” Well given a budget deficit, she knows we’ll never replace the funding.

    that and the fact that neither peeling back the federal gas tax nor heavily taxing exxon will make it out of committee.

    She took the non-controversial road of trying to please everybody, which is pretty common with politicians.

    she’s a clinton.

    Attacking Obama with her double down pandering, however, was pretty lame.

    if it wins indiana then it works, pandering or no.

  73. 73
    p.lukasiak says:

    You don’t agree? Every day here you keep coming and telling us how different Obama is, and you think that is a reason not to support him.

    I don’t think I’ve ever said that Obama is “different” — inexperienced, unprepared, and narcissistic — but that describes the current resident of the white house, so Obama can’t really be “different”.

    Instead we should support a part of the established old guard who has been around and is experienced and understands the inner workings of the workings.

    Do you deny this?

    Nope. The country needs fixing. Clinton can fix it.

    Back when things were going good in 2000, I probably would have supported a candidate like Obama — things were going well enough that the idea of a candidate who focussed on changing the way politics (and especially foreign policy)works was worth the risk.

    But the country is broken, and we need a mechanic, not the salesman, at the helm. This is especially true in the area of foreign policy — Obama is tone-deaf to the niceties of diplomacy, and the world wants to regain its confidence in the USA, and the stuff that Obama says does not inspire confidence because it offers too many changes in the way international relations work.

    Changing systems when there are problems doesn’t fix the problems themselves, and can very often make them worse. Fix what’s broke first, then consider changing the way things work.

  74. 74
    D-Chance. says:

    t jasper parnell Says:

    So, I went over to the NYT to find out which of Wright’s “remarks” were so offensive, and what do I discover? John Cole is now a media icon.

    Points subtracted from the NYT blog for not reprinting the phrase “kicked in the junk”…

  75. 75
    t jasper parnell says:

    But the country is broken, and we need a mechanic, not the salesman, at the helm. This is especially true in the area of foreign policy—Obama is tone-deaf to the niceties of diplomacy, and the world wants to regain its confidence in the USA, and the stuff that Obama says does not inspire confidence because it offers too many changes in the way international relations work.

    This is simply wrong and wrong-headed. Clinton has rejected diplomacy and embraced militarism. She would destroy or devastate or whatever Iran; she would not agree to meet with foreign heads of state of whom the far right disapproves. She would, in short, cling to the unilateral foreign policy which has isolated America and which necessarily makes impossible dealing with the catastrophic diplomatic failures of the current administration.

  76. 76
    Shygetz says:

    Nope. The country needs fixing. Clinton can fix it.

    And you base this assessment on which of her previous stellar successes in policy and diplomacy? ‘Cause she sure as hell can’t even bring her own political party together, so I have doubts about her abilities as a diplomat, her record on choosing the right side of foreign policy (Iraq, and then repeated with Iran) is dismal, and the one big domestic package she spearheaded (healthcare)…how did that go again? Big success?

  77. 77
    Ted says:

    Changing systems when there are problems doesn’t fix the problems themselves, and can very often make them worse. Fix what’s broke first, then consider changing the way things work.

    Maybe you can answer my question, then. What are you doing here? Most of the primaries/caucuses are over, most of the regulars here are “Obots”, so why are you continuing to troll the threads? Desperately hoping for an Obama fan you can convince who also just happens to live in an upcoming primary state?

  78. 78
    nightjar says:

    Obama is tone-deaf to the niceties of diplomacy, and the world wants to regain its confidence in the USA, and the stuff that Obama says does not inspire confidence because it offers too many changes in the way international relations work.

    Oh, you mean her rants on nuking Iran while spreading the US nuclear umbrella over world class democracies like the UAE, Saudi Arabia and all the other sweetheart dictators in the region. She can’t even keep the peace in her campaign, why should we expect her to do better in the world arena. Your still an idiot and liar Pluk.

  79. 79
    KRK says:

    Obama is tone-deaf to the niceties of diplomacy, and the world wants to regain its confidence in the USA

    Now that’s a hoot coming from a Clinton supporter.

  80. 80
    chopper says:

    Now that’s a hoot coming from a Clinton supporter.

    hey now, she’s from the class of nuke ’em high.

  81. 81
    Dennis - SGMM says:

    This is especially true in the area of foreign policy—Obama is tone-deaf to the niceties of diplomacy, and the world wants to regain its confidence in the USA, and the stuff that Obama says does not inspire confidence because it offers too many changes in the way international relations work.

    Obama doesn’t appreciate such niceties of diplomacy as: Do we blow “them” up with 2.75″ heavy FFAR’s from low altitude or do we just drop JDAM’s from a thousand feet AGL?
    The world wants us to continue attacking nations that haven’t attacked us, people! Because that’s been working out so well.

  82. 82
    cleek says:

    so why are you continuing to troll the threads?

    trolling is its own reward. even negative attention is attention…

  83. 83
    Tim (The Other One) says:

    “Peggy will see you at Gate 14.”

    “Inside baseball” laugh of the day !

  84. 84
    t jasper parnell says:

    But the country is broken, and we need a mechanic, not the salesman, at the helm. This is especially true in the area of foreign policy—Obama is tone-deaf to the niceties of diplomacy, and the world wants to regain its confidence in the USA, and the stuff that Obama says does not inspire confidence because it offers too many changes in the way international relations work.

    I would like to make another point here. The division between the US and Europe (old, new or whichever) is that the current US policy of treating the war on terror as a war on terror is precisely the sticking point. The Europeans, whose experience with terrorism of the home-grown variety, is rather more extensive than US’s see the way forward as increased use of police forces and courts, i.e., terrorism is a crime and not an entity, and through the increased Europeanization, i.e., edumacation and indoctrination concerning the core EU values of rule of law, individual rights, social justice, and market economies, of immigrants and others. (See the Hague plan of 2004 for an encapsulation of the Euros strategy)

    What about Clinton’s foreign policies views, refusing to take off the table — for example — nuking alleged terrorist training camps, corresponds to these views. For goodness sake. It is one thing to argue that you approve of Clinton’s aggressive foreign policy claims; it is quite another to inaccurately claim that her aggressive views will or can bring the US and Europe into a closer alignment. The latter point is simply wrong and ignores reality.

  85. 85
    chopper says:

    But the country is broken, and we need a mechanic, not the salesman, at the helm.

    clinton isn’t a mechanic. she’s like her husband; all she knows how to do is drive in a straight line.

    that’s great and all, back in the 90’s when good shit was happening all around. the berlin wall had fallen and the ‘peace dividend’ was finally paying off. markets were opening and the tech boom gave us a huge economic expansion. no major wars to worry about, or major enemies to face.

    driving the ship straight was what we needed. a republican would have come up with any excuse to fuck that up. take the huge amounts of cash coming in and give it to business, or maybe deeply cut taxes. rattle a sabre or two at some new imagined enemy. “let’s make a U turn, just for the fuck of it”

    bill, he just let the USS america keep sailing and didn’t care. dude was too busy trying to co-opt the GOP policies and throwing gays into the wood chipper to care.

    how will hills be any different? she’s not a changer. she’s not a mechanic. she’s a stay-the-course type just like bill.

    only problem is, it aint the 90’s any more. you can’t snap your fingers and bring back the tech boom, or low oil prices, or an ‘america before the war on terror’.

  86. 86
    jake says:

    “Don’t change horses in mid-stream,” the Hillsterical Edition.

    Changing systems when there are problems doesn’t fix the problems themselves, and can very often make them worse. Fix what’s broke first, then consider changing the way things work.

    Spin, my pretty ballerina, spin!

  87. 87
    scrutinizer says:

    The country needs fixing. Clinton can fix it.

    Fix it? Hell, Paul, she can’t even run a successful nomination campaign. She took a huge lead in the polls before the primaries and caucuses and lost it, she’s never led in pledged delegates all through the campaign, her campaign wasted a $115 million war chest to no effect, she’s behind in fundraising, and she’s down to hawking McCain talking points on gas tax holidays and tough talk on Iran.

    And you think she can fix the country?

    Please, do better than that.

  88. 88
    Dennis - SGMM says:

    Clinton’s record of accomplishment in the Senate demonstrates that she can, indeed fix what’s wrong with America.
    After all she authored the bill that addressed the decline of American…
    Okay, there’s the bill she authored that enabled our advances in…
    Well she did author the landmark bill that addressed our growing shortage of…

    She’s Bill’s wife, dammit!

  89. 89
    flyerhawk says:

    What I really don’t get about the Hillary supporters is how counter-factual their arguments.

    Obama is certainly inexperienced in comparison to other politicians. That is a flaw. Obama is unwilling to engage in the dirt. That is a flaw, even if a flaw because of good reasons. Obama is too herky jerky during debates. That is a flaw.

    But you know what? You won’t see Obama supporters say “Vote for Obama because he’s the experienced candidate who can pander with the best of them in a debate and who is willing to do whatever it takes to win”.

    Hillary supporters, otoh, claim that the reason that Hillary is such a good choice is because she is experienced and she knows how to get things done. Now the first claim is highly dubious and requires a belief in the value of being spouse of a power that has heretofore, never been seriously considered true.

    But the second claim requires a completely rejection of the events of the past 15 years. To get something done in Washington you must be able to use personal charisma to get the American people behind you and force of will to get Washington behind you. When, in her entire political career, has she EVER hown an ability to do either?

    Hillary is a highly divisive figure who is not charismatic by anyone other than her most rabid supporters and her mother. So how exactly is she going to get things done? When she wasn’t even able to get her own party to buy into her inevitability, how exactly is this woman going to get up on the podium and convince Americans that they must accept some pain if they want to solve our problems?

    Hillary seems to have a pretty good hold of some issues. She knows how to horse trade. You know what that sounds like to me? A Senator.

  90. 90
    The Other Steve says:

    Nope. The country needs fixing. Clinton can fix it.

    You’re saying this because you know that Hillary has been part of that problem, and you are assuming that it takes someone who caused the problem to solve the problem?

    I suppose there is some logic in that. It’s not quite clear to me, though, that she is interested in solving the problems. Her campaign to date has been plagued with reinforcing the problems.

    So how will she be different as President?

  91. 91
    scrutinizer says:

    Clinton’s record of accomplishment in the Senate demonstrates that she can, indeed fix what’s wrong with America.

    Well, a bunch of buildings got named that wouldn’t have had names, and shut up.

  92. 92
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    Clinton’s record of accomplishment in the Senate demonstrates that she can, indeed fix what’s wrong with America.
    After all she authored the bill that addressed the decline of American…
    Okay, there’s the bill she authored that enabled our advances in…
    Well she did author the landmark bill that addressed our growing shortage of…

    She’s Bill’s wife, dammit!

    According to the Atlantic Monthly she was getting coffee for the menfolk.

  93. 93
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    According to the Atlantic Monthly she was getting coffee for the menfolk.99 other superdelegates.

  94. 94
    ThymeZone says:

    The country needs fixing. Clinton can fix it.

    Really? Like she fixed healthcare for us?

    Where do I send the thank-you note?

  95. 95
    Dennis - SGMM says:

    Really? Like she fixed healthcare for us?

    Where do I send the thank-you note?

    She’s been saving her best stuff for thirty-five years now.

  96. 96
    tBone says:

    But the Obots insist that he’s special, and develop an insane personal/emotional attachment to his candidacy. And they wind up acting just like Republicans—falsely accusing anyone who opposes them of doing what they are actually doing.

    In the future, a “pluk” will be a unit of measurement used to gauge the relative toolishness of a given person. For instance:

    myiq2xu = .75 pluks
    Big Tent Democrat = 2 pluks

    and so on.

    trolling is its own reward. even negative attention is attention

    True. My dog, for instance, will get into the trash if I’m not paying enough attention to her. So clearly what we need is a shock collar for p.luk and his fellow Hillarians.

  97. 97
    Martin says:

    But the country is broken, and we need a mechanic, not the salesman, at the helm.

    Uh, who has organized hundreds of thousands of volunteers and brought in millions of donors to beat the best political team the Democrats have? And who is left trying to sell us on new and improved ways of how we should count delegates?

    Sorry, but you measure a mechanic by how well they execute and Clinton, armed with pretty much every advantage you could hope fore other than her gender, has failed to do that.

    The problems in this country won’t be solved while everyone watches American Idol. That’s how the problems developed in the first place. The problems get solved when the public gets involved in solving them. Only one person is trying to do that.

  98. 98
    ThymeZone says:

    I like that, steakboy.

    And to paraphrase Bill Kristol, myiq is entertaining, but where’s the substance?

    pluk has substance. Alas, it is all wrong. But it’s substance.

  99. 99
    nightjar says:

    My turds have substance and yet they stink.

  100. 100
    tBone says:

    My turds have substance and yet they stink.

    But are they as nutty as p.luk?

  101. 101

    […] Cole also handily takes down Mary Katharine Ham for her breathlessly delivered revelation that Obama is not “anti-political”: Mary Katharine Ham: Gee, I wonder why Obama, the anti-political posturer, disowned Wright today. My dad got a call last night that might explain.I got some more information about that call. […]

  102. 102
    ThymeZone says:

    The country needs fixing. Clinton can fix it.

    Metaphor police, please pick up a white courtesy phone ….

  103. 103
    ThymeZone says:

    Crap. Wrong reference. Sorry.

  104. 104
    p.lukasiak says:

    What about Clinton’s foreign policies views, refusing to take off the table—for example—nuking alleged terrorist training camps, corresponds to these views

    when did she say she’d NUKE alleged terrorist training camps?

    But I don’t think there is any contradiction between the European view, and attacking terrorist training camps in nations that are harboring such camps. That’s not the issue.

    The big difference is in defining what a ‘terrorist’ is. US definition seems to be ‘whoever is engaged in armed struggle against someone we like” and we use that definition to achieve non-terrorism related goals. The Europeans rightfully object to using ‘terrorism’ as a pretext toward achieving other foreign policy goals (and using it as a domestic political cudgel).

    I think that in terms of philosophy, Obama is probably a little less likely than Clinton to use “terrorism” in a way that the Europeans would find objectionable. But the difference between how Clinton will deal with ‘the war on terror” and what the Bush administration is doing will be so stark to Europe that difference between Obama and Clinton is marginal.

  105. 105
    nightjar says:

    But are they as nutty as p.luk?

    Only the floaters and I don’t know why.

  106. 106
    nightjar says:

    But the difference between how Clinton will deal with ‘the war on terror” and what the Bush administration is doing will be so stark to Europe that difference between Obama and Clinton is marginal.

    Yes, but he French will love it when Hillary in a candystriper outfit chases Bill through the courtyard of the The Palais de l’ Elysée.

  107. 107
    jnfr says:

    I think Wright struck out at Obama in a very personal way, and it seemed to me that Obama was angry and/or hurt when he responded today. It’s sad that such matters get played out as important politically, when they really are not at all, but that’s our lovely media environment.

  108. 108
    p.lukasiak says:

    Hillary seems to have a pretty good hold of some issues. She knows how to horse trade. You know what that sounds like to me? A Senator.

    you mean Senator Lyndon Baines Johnson? Not the most charismatic guy in the world, and he certainly screwed up with Vietnam, but there is no question that he ‘horse-traded’ the USA into a whole slew of important programs and domestic achievements.

    Clinton spent her first six years in the Senate learning how to get things accomplished in Congress — the fact that she was able to get a seat on the Armed Services Committee after two years in the Senate should tell you a lot about her political acumen (this was while the GOP still controlled the Senate, and there were lots of Senators who would have loved that seat — and the ability to bring home Pentagon dollars to their districts. Jim Webb was able to get a seat because the Dems wanted to highlight his military experience, AND extra seats opened because the Dems took over the Senate that year.)

    And there is no question that Clinton understands how the executive branch works. She spent 8 years learing what works – and what doesn’t work (like, don’t try passing a major program like Health Care reform without having a bunch of Congresscritters invested in your proposal — health care reform failed because Congress was shut out of the negotiations, and nobody in Congress was responsible for getting it passed.)

    As for her being divisive… she’s certainly a lightning rod for criticism, but she’s received high marks for her bi-partisanship in the senate from the GOP. So if you’re really worried about Clinton being divisive, stop watching Hardball. :-)

  109. 109
    cbear says:

    My turds have substance and yet they stink.

    My turds grew up to be phuk and myiq.

  110. 110
    myiq2xu says:

    Now that’s a hoot coming from a Clinton supporter.

    Yes, we all recall the militarism of the last Clinton administration.

    What part of the nineties didn’t you like, the peace or the prosperity?

  111. 111
    myiq2xu says:

    My turds grew up to be phuk and myiq.

    Now that’s some serious shit talking.

  112. 112
    jake says:

    you mean Senator Lyndon Baines Johnson? Not the most charismatic guy in the world, and he certainly screwed up with Vietnam, but there is no question that he ‘horse-traded’ the USA into a whole slew of important programs and domestic achievements.

    Will someone please pry the bottle out of pluckshake’s hands? He’s about three swigs from ATO.

  113. 113
    Ed Drone says:

    bill, he just let the USS america keep sailing and didn’t care. dude was too busy trying to co-opt the GOP policies

    Turn the Boat Around

    Our leader landed on the deck dressed in his soldier suit,
    A banner hanging over him, he looked so bloody cute.
    But San Diego could be seen, right there in the background,
    So the order soon was given, “Turn the boat around.”

    Chorus:

    It’s time to turn the boat around, that’s what the people say.
    The course our leader’s setting is exactly the wrong way.
    The compass reads “disaster,” you’ve run us hard aground,
    It’s time to fire the skipper, and then turn the boat around.

    He claimed that he’d found danger right there in white and black,
    And the cause of all that danger was in far-away Iraq.
    Weapons, terror, poison gas, nuke-u-lar missiles, too,
    All waiting, primed and ready to target me and you.

    Repeat Chorus

    So off we went, a-shooting, and soon had ‘em on the run,
    With bought-and-paid-for press along, to show us all the fun.
    We never found those weapons, the poison gas and such,
    And the folks whose land we shot to hell don’t like us very much.

    Repeat Chorus

    Now, here at home, his policies are tilted toward the rich,
    With tax cuts and deficits, the good old bait-and-switch.
    He loves the super-rich and puts the dollars in their fist,
    As for the poor, there’s still the war, so they can just enlist.

    Repeat Chorus

    This is the “ship of state,” not another “photo op,”
    And when it gets to going, it’s damn-all hard to stop.
    But if we can turn a carrier to try to fool the press,
    Then we can turn the country ‘round, and get out of this mess.

    Repeat Chorus

    Copyright ©2003 Bob Clayton & Ed Drone

  114. 114
    Adam says:

    Yes, we all recall the militarism of the last Clinton administration.

    What part of the nineties didn’t you like, the peace or the prosperity?

    Putting aside the fact that Hillary’s been on the warhawk train to Bombsville for about, oh, 6 years now —

    Are you fucking retarded? Cruise missiles to Sudan? Airstrikes on Iraq? Does fucking Kosovo ring a bell?

    Is the reason you want to go back to the 90s because you were obviously fucking high the entire time?

  115. 115
    MDee says:

    “If one morning I walked on top of the water across the Potomac River, the headline that afternoon would read: PRESIDENT CAN’T SWIM.” Lyndon B. Johnson

    The more things change the more they stay the same.

    What cracks me up about these buttmunches is that they seem to think all Obama supporters are these starry-eyed idealists expecting rainbows and ponies. Heh. For many of us Obama was our third or fourth choice so spare me the bot designation.

    I suffer no delusions about Obama. Like Clinton, he will sell us out. He’ll make mistakes, compromise, piss us off, hire unpalatable people and probably generally be a prick. The man is a politician. I generally hate politicians. For that matter I generally hate people, but I’ll save my misanthropy for another day.

    But this is for all those thinking they are enlightening us poor deluded rubes:

    I don’t know what it is that makes you so dumb but it really works. Anon

  116. 116

    Well… I have to say, he gave them real ammunition.

    First he said “I will not disavow Reverent Wright.”

    Then he said “What? He said more of the same stuff I knew he said when I gave that speech? Forget him, then.” I mean, Wright didn’t say anything new. He just repeated some stuff that was old.

    I’m disappointed. I mean, sure, on a disappointment scale, this is small potatoes. But I did expect better of him.

    No, he never said he was apolitical, but I did feel that he wasn’t going to be ashamed of a fundamentally decent man – any man who builds a church with that solid a record of real, honest assistance for needy people is fundamentally decent – and denounce him.

    I wanted him to say “I don’t respect the man for saying crazy stuff like that. But I do respect him for the good he’s done. Jesus tell us to feed the hungry; Wright has fed the hungry. He tells us to shelter the homeless; Wright shelters the homeless.” Et cetera.

  117. 117
    sarsipius says:

    Hillary didn’t just pander, she double downed pandered.

    pwndered? You heard it here first.

  118. 118
    MDee says:

    Ahh shit. Cut off my comment.

    Back to politicians. Hate ‘em. But hey, I live in a country where they are a necessary evil and I’d like to exercise my right by having a small say in which necessary evil I’m choosing.

    Clinton is not the evil of my choosing for a couple of reasons but one major one:

    I like my evil competent. Her campaign has been one of the most incompetently run clusterfucks I’ve witnessed in my many years of watching politics.

    She can’t even execute the simple act of hiring competent people to run an effective political campaign. She put in a bunch of acolytes and trusted cronies who figured they’d just cruise on into nomination based on her name and hey, why not go out in style and blow this shitload of money our fundraisers gave us, we’ll get more after February 5th. Oops.

    This is a candidate I want to entrust to run the country? After the current President Oops? I think not.

    On top of the incompetence she has the diplomacy skills of a rabid rottweiler. States irrelevant, voters irrelevant, dead to me, Putin has no soul, NZ Prime Minister will survive with the cockroaches, obliterate Iran while dodging imaginary sniper fire because of lack of sleep.

    It takes a shitload of stupid to blow the advantages (name, being a former First Lady, name, popular President Clinton, money, name, party machinery, name, massive superdelegate lead going in) she had to end up where she is now. We already have a shitload of stupid stinking up the Oval Office, I not interested in switching him out with someone with a -D after their name.

    Obama ain’t Mr. Perfect, but the fact is he’s ran a better campaign, a more efficient campaign and he’s done it against two of the most powerful and nasty motherfuckers in the Democratic Party, John McCain, AND the shitspinners of the media. Last I checked, he’s still in this thing and is still winning.

    Now, that’s exactly the kind of evil I can get behind!

  119. 119
    firebrand says:

    Ah yes. Hillary’s “vaunted” foreign policy experience. Indeed, when she isn’t dodging imaginary sniper fire in Bosnia, she’s threatening to obliterate Iran in a storm of nuclear fire. Yup. That’s some kind of foreign policy experience. The kind that President Bush would most heartily approve of.

  120. 120
    Steve J. says:

    I’m pretty sure I know the poll Ham is talking about and if I am correct, her father had to lie to get that far in the poll because one has to say that one will “probably” or “almost certainly” vote in the Democratic primary,

  121. 121
    jones says:

    I’m getting a good laugh at all the liberal bloggers who are whistling past the graveyard, consoling themselves that Obama has again hit it out of the ballpark, that Wright has allowed him to distance himself gracefully, that the connexion is broken and there is now only clear sailing to 11-4 and President Obama, its all clear skies from here on out and there’s a bluebird on his shoulder, should he care to look and a great big rainbow shining above his halo.

    Even the mighty John dipshit Cole, mr. “realist” who has “grown up” since he hated on Ted Rall, even he won’t admit this puts a tiny tarnish on the Messiah’s crown in the question of JUDGMENT? Oh, I never knew the guy, I guess!

    He’s only been hawking the guy as his political adviser and spiritual mentor for 2 years now on the trail, and more in his book! “Like a father”. Great counselor whom Obama bounces political ideas off all the time. And he never knew! I mean, the guy was a different person in all those sermons! He never said ANYTHING like that before!

    I think we have a question of dishonesty as well as bad judgment. And add bad political judgment. While Cole is whining that we should stick to issues, surely he knows that president is a political position, and without Congress’ consent, the President can’t spend one thin dime on his grandiose schemes. So if Obama is that much of a political naif not to figure out Wright is not exactly, shall we say, ready for prime time, how’s he gonna figure out how to jolly up the poobahs on the Committees? How’s he gonna get public support for his programs, for leverage?

    Sorry guys, the blooms long over this rose. Actually, the public is predisposed to elect Republicans president to begin with. Then, as many have noted, Obama happens to be identified as black, however unfairly, seeing as he’s also white. Nextly, he’s very, very liberal. No white politician as liberal as Obama has EVER been elected, and I don’t think ever will. Lastly, turns out old Barry isn’t as great at politics as everyone thought he was. He got a Howard Dean ride that lasted just long enough to lock him in as the nominee, once again the press does a grave disservice to the Dems by soft-balling their guy so that when the hardball starts, he ducks out of the batters box. And good thing, because it appears he has a glass jaw and can’t take a hit. Well, Wright just pitched one low and inside and appears old Barry isn’t wearing a cup, because he caught one right in the ‘nads. Cole says Obama kicked Wright in the nuts? huh uh. Wright is a popular guy, in fact, he is a GOOD politician. He knows his crowd. He GAINED by all this. Its the O-man who lost. Bigtime.

    It was always going to be hard for a Democrat, a black man, a liberal and an inexperienced, naive politician to win. Everything, and I mean everything, had to fall his way. Its not. Its not by a long chalk. We are STILl a 49-49 nation but Obama may lose by 5% and electoral and down-ticket Armageddon will ensue.

    And oh my, what will you say then?

    WE WUZ ROBBED AGIN!!! DIEBOLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111

  122. 122
    scrutinizer says:

    No white politician as liberal as Obama has EVER been elected, and I don’t think ever will.

    Obama? Liberal? Nope. Not compared with, say, Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, LBJ—

    Go back and take a look at history, buttmunch.

  123. 123
    t jasper parnell says:

    when did she say she’d NUKE alleged terrorist training camps?

    1) I wrote that she refused to take it off the table; odd that you make the mistake inasmuch as you quote me accurately.

    2)

    Similarly, when Obama said he would not use nuclear weapons to attack terrorists, Senator Clinton tut-tutted him, saying, “I don’t believe that any President should make any blanket statements with respect to the use or non-use of nuclear weapons. But I think we’ll leave it at that, because I don’t know the circumstances in which he was responding.” Yet no one imagines that President Hillary Clinton would order a nuclear attack on a terrorist training camp in the wilds of Waziristan, even if bin Laden himself were in residence.

    The circumstances, by the way, were these: A Capitol Hill reporter for the Associated Press, spotting Obama emerging from a breakfast with constituents, asked him a question. He answered, “I think it would be a profound mistake for us to use nuclear weapons in any circumstance”—he paused—“involving civilians.” He paused again. “Let me scratch that,” he added. “There’s been no discussion of nuclear weapons. That’s not on the table.”

  124. 124
    p.lukasiak says:

    1) I wrote that she refused to take it off the table; odd that you make the mistake inasmuch as you quote me accurately.

    true enough — of course, she never said anything about “terrorist training camps” and nukes, which is what you claimed she said (read your own quote) which is what struck me.

  125. 125
    cleek says:

    I just watched the Wright speech, leaving aside the Aids stuff, what was so awful?

    Digby says smart things about this:

    Reverend Wright called into question the entire premise of Obama’s campaign, a campaign built on changing the very nature of politics, when he said, “he did what politicians do.” There was no need for him to speak out now except to gin up the controversy at the worst possible time. Any person of sensitivity would have at least waited until this tough, hard fought primary had ended. It was a self-aggrandizing, personal attack and it says something important about the man.

    Clearly [Obama] sees it as a betrayal and a deeply personal one. And so it was. So much so that I felt uncomfortable even watching it. Obama trusted Reverend Wright. As he pointed out, Wright had married him and Michelle, baptized their children, prayed with them over major events in their lives. Obama was very generous with him in his Philadelphia speech, offering a personal endorsement of his good character. And yet, knowing that Obama is fighting this ridiculous rumor about being a Muslim, Wright shows up at the National Press Club with bodyguards from the Nation of Islam and praises Farrakhan? Outrageous.

    also…

    Amy Sullivan, one of the primary proponents of putting religiosity at the center of Democratic politics doesn’t seem to know what to make of the problems Wright has caused for Obama. Apparently, she never considered the possible downsides of hewing so closely to religion that people think it’s definitional. She and he friends didn’t seem to realize that all the blather about secular Democrats was never about religion, but about social conservatism. You get no points for going to the “wrong kind” of church. You’d think they would have figured that out a long time ago.

  126. 126
    Xenos says:

    Obama? Liberal? Nope. Not compared with, say, Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, LBJ—-

    You are dealing with a movement conservative. “Liberal” does not have a fixed, objective meaning with them – it is just a codeword for ‘domestic enemy’ of the conservative movement. With the broad brush they use for the term Nixon, Eisenhower and Goldwater would all be considered ‘liberals’.

  127. 127

    As to lukasiak’s point, something about Obama being different. Well, either he’s different from Hillary or he isn’t. If he isn’t why are Clinton supporters so riled about him. If he is different, then what Clinton supporters see as negative a majority of Dems see as positive.

    I look at H. Clinton’s record and see decades of anti-labor treachery under a Democratic banner. The economics of this country are mortally screwed by that kind of betrayal. The GATTs, the NAFTAs, the media mergers. How does anyone believe that a candidate who sat on the Walmart board, who publicly praised all her husband’s trade deals that siphoned off jobs from the country, whose husband now is pulling in money for pimping another trade deal with fascists, whose anti-union campaign manager is coiled around the same trade deal, how can anyone believe that H. Clinton is opposed to these trade deals, much less bring about change in Washington?

    Is Obama the same? Well, at least he doesn’t have the track record.

  128. 128
    The Other Steve says:

    I find it fascinating that p.luk ignores my request to point out failings of Hillary Clinton.

  129. 129
    cleek says:

    i find it fascinating that nobody has ever responded to my request for a list of Hillary Clinton’s accomplishments.

    why, it’s almost as if she doesn’t actually have any, and her much-vaunted experience is the experience of an observer, and not the experience of a player.

  130. 130
    chopper says:

    What part of the nineties didn’t you like, the peace or the prosperity?

    i’m still waiting to hear hillary’s ‘secret plan’ for reinflating the tech bubble and making oil cheap again. somehow i don’t expect to hear a cogent argument though.

  131. 131
    The Other Steve says:

    Is Obama the same? Well, at least he doesn’t have the track record.

    One of the problems of p.luk and myiq is that they don’t understand Hillary as well as we do. It’s funny, really, they attack us for being naive, but they don’t even understand who they themselves support.

    Hillary’s world view is quite different. She does not think you can fix a system from the outside. She thinks you have to become part of the system, and only from within can you affect change.

    This view came to her from watching her friends in the 1960’s and 1970’s as they attacked the establishment, and basically failed.

    In a sense she is right. A system will not change as a result of full out attacks. You cannot fight the system, especially by behaving even more immature and irresponsible and childish. However, Hillary became confused, and in trying to play friendly with the system, she became the system. Her votes for the Iraq war, the bankruptcy bill and so on show a tremendous lack of thought. She made these votes so that she would be perceived as being part of the establishment. The question though is, at what point can she change the establishment if she is allowing it to define her?

    No, while Hillary is right about out and out battle and how ineffective it is, she is wrong about what it means to be part of the system. Getting elected makes you part, and at that point it is your responsibility to effect change. That’s what the voters called for. To effect change, one must do it softly. You must work to make it a win-win for everyone. Some of our major policy changes which have had tremendous positive impact have worked in this way.

    Another point, lost on Hillary, that I saw when the memos from John Roberts were released, is that even Republicans respond to criticism. They are afraid of perceptions that they hate immigrants, minorities, and so on. This must be used to our advantage. We’ve even seen this in the Bush administration. Some of Bush’s most disasterous policies have actually been responses to Democratic criticism.(I’m thinking Homeland Security)

    So you have to be smart. you ahve to criticize smartly. You have to always think through the long term consequences of what you are doing. But you can’t just go along to get along, to give an appearance you are one of the boys. Doing so, you lose your sense of self.

    It is on these issues, that I feel Barack Obama understands the balance. The purpose of a leader is not to get into petty personality arguments, but to hold true to a governing ideology and make judgements based upon the long term consequences of those decisions and how they will effect everyone involved.

  132. 132
    Shygetz says:

    Clinton spent her first six years in the Senate learning how to get things accomplished in Congress—the fact that she was able to get a seat on the Armed Services Committee after two years in the Senate should tell you a lot about her political acumen

    It tells me nothing of her political acumen; it tells me loads about the influence her family has (had?) on the Democratic party, and the fact that they were grooming her as a potential national candidate. Her accomplishments on that committee, and in the Senate in general, in getting important yet controversial legislation passed would tell me something about her political acumen. What were those bills she sponsored again?

  133. 133
    WMass says:

    The problem is the complete fucking morons, otherwise known as Democratic Strategists, who decided that Dems should start wearing their religion on their sleeve like Republicans.

  134. 134

    Mary Kathy Ham is a perfect example as to why Women should swallow and take it in the ass….

    Or at least a strong argument for contraception.

    I’m so bad.

    :D

    -pat

  135. 135
    Ellison, Ellensburg, Ellers, and Lambchop says:

    Where do these wingnuts come up with this perception? I see the same sort of crap from the Hillary Clinton blogs and the pro-Clinton commenters- this notion that Obama supporters are somehow unaware that Barack Obama is GASP a politician.

    Yeah, where would those Stoopid ReThugliKKKans get that maroonish notion…I mean, except from, y’know, Obama supporters:

    A leader, not a politician
    …Clinton is a politician, Michelle said. And at this crucial juncture in our history, “We don’t need another politician. We need a leader.” Which strikes me as the most succinct explanation of Obama’s appeal I’ve ever heard.

    There’s more from the Obama fan-boys (Like, “Kathi – You’re correct. He’s not a politician. He’s a statesperson: intelligent, reasonable, and possessing keen insight. Haven’t seen one of those in years!” and “I respect & appreciate that Barack spoke well of Hillary. He didn’t try to smear her & he reminded us that we are all Dem’s. He’s a gentleman not a politician.”), if you can stomach such self-delusional nonsense.

    Welcome to the real world, John.

  136. 136
    Ellison, Ellensburg, Ellers, and Lambchop says:

    Oh, yeah, let’s not forget Genius Political Activist…Kumar!

    Choose a statesman, not a politician

    Kal Penn
    Published Monday, February 4, 2008

  137. 137
    Z says:

    Huh, Pat. You are a perfect example of why men should do the same.

  138. 138
    Sasha says:

    All statesmen are politicians; not all politicians are statesmen.

    Time and again, Clinton and McCain have proved themselves to be politicians (e.g. Gas Tax Holiday).

    Obama has shown that he might just be a statesman.

  139. 139

    A quick point about Hillary and her experience. Yeah, as a frosh Senator she got on the Armed Services committee. Too bad she didn’t read the intelligence reports about Iraq before she voted for the war in Iraq. For all you anti-Hillary people, don’t bring up the “nuke Iran” nonsense, her Iraq authorization is still the most potent counter-argument for her candidacy.

    In 2008 the Democrats need an anti-war candidate. Pure and simple.

  140. 140
    t4toby says:

    Is the reason you want to go back to the 90s because you were obviously fucking high the entire time?

    How’d you know that about me?

    I’m calling Obama parody troll on LowIQ. Even its screen name is arrogant.

    Hey, IQ kid – No response to me seeing what a shitty blog you have and calling you out on it?

    I know, I know, Don’t Feed the Trolls…

Trackbacks & Pingbacks

  1. […] Cole also handily takes down Mary Katharine Ham for her breathlessly delivered revelation that Obama is not “anti-political”: Mary Katharine Ham: Gee, I wonder why Obama, the anti-political posturer, disowned Wright today. My dad got a call last night that might explain.I got some more information about that call. […]

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