Frequent commenter KCinDC seems to have stopped a finessing of the rules that would have inappropriately split the PLEO delegates from DC between Obama and Clinton (each getting one). Instead, due to KCinDC’s work, Obama will correctly be awarded both delegates, as the rules state he should. The entire story can be found here, with some backstory in the comments here (via the comments at ObWi).
As a side note, is there a more byzantine process than the Democratic primaries? The next time the Democratic party wants to discuss election reform laws, I suggest they look inward first.
TenguPhule
Yes, getting a Democratic Bill rammed through this cockaroach Congress.
SATSQ MII.
SpotWeld
As a side note, is there a more byzantine process than the Democratic primaries?
Um.. tax laws?
cleek
there is a lot to be said for the GOP’s winner-take-all approach.
Dennis - SGMM
Well, it’s obvious to me that the D.C. delegates don’t count. Their inability to appreciate H.M.S. First Woman President casts doubt on their judgment and implies a high degree of misogyny on their part.
I’m hoping in vain that this will forestall the endless bloviating of pluk, et al.
Phoenix Woman
Actually, both parties almost had a much saner primary setup back in 2000, when the Delaware Plan was supposed to be discussed at the Republican National Convention. But Karl Rove made them pull it from the agenda — not because he was against it as such, but because it wasn’t part of the script he’d worked out.
What really torques me is how the Democrats attack each other far, far harder than they do Republicans. Seriously.
In 1980, Teddy Kennedy guaranteed a GOP win by mounting a full-on, knockdown-dragout, all-the-way-to-the-convention primary challenge against a sitting president of his own party. It was doomed from the start, of course, but the hubris of Teddy — and of Harold Ickes, his floor manager back them — wouldn’t let him see that. He does now, but Ickes doesn’t.
Then we have the spectacle of Hillary putting John McCain above a fellow Democrat as C-in-C material. I mean, really: Would Mitt Romney or Rudy Giuliani, even at their most utterly slap-a-second-mortgage-on-the-house desperate, EVER have dared to attack John McCain by praising a Democrat over him? Of course not.
And need I go into how Joe Lieberman rewarded Bill and Hill for their having his back in 2006? By endorsing McCain.
liberal
cleek wrote, there is a lot to be said for the GOP’s winner-take-all approach.
What, aside from being less democratic?
Dennis - SGMM
Just an aside. Welcome. I recall your comments from other blogs. I don’t frequent them any more (No praise, no blame) so it’s nice to see your moniker in the Comments.
Patrick
The problem is that the Democratic system was never suppose to be an election to determine the nominee. It was only designed to flush out the one candidate that could capture the big campaign donors. This is why Hillary feels so put upon, she won with the money donors before Iowa. Obama has tapped into a different (larger) funding source not previously seen. The system was never designed for two fully funded candidates. It could be that the system will still separate the money wheat from the unfunded chaff as Hillary can’t pay bills and Obama brings in another $40MM.
cleek
well, it’s relatively straightforward and much faster.
and, what’s so democratic about a super-delegate ?
Phoenix Woman
Hi, Dennis! Thanks for the welcome. I brought doughnuts and cinnamon buns! Shall I set them on the counter?
Dennis - SGMM
Yum!
ThymeZone
A party primary is not an election.
The party is free to choose its candidates any way it chooses to do so. The present system, while confusing, is actually democratic, small d, because it lets the states pretty much configure their own processes as long as they operate within the larger rules.
Most of the churn is about the way various states have handled their particular situations. If the party is to be viable, it has to respect the states’ eccentricities and support them, it’s part of building a strong base of state parties.
Really John, if you are going to be a member of a real party, you need to stand back and take account of the fact that the system doesn’t exist to make you feel good. It’s a complex amalgam of fifty-plus fiefdoms with pigheaded people running them. The Democratic Party is not a feelgood machine, like the GOP. It’s more of a chaotic reality tv show. The fact that it is clunky, to me, is what makes it attractive. If it were smooth and oiled and machine-like, I wouldn’t want anything to do with it.
The Other Steve
So would having Bill Clinton appoint his successor.
ThymeZone
As an afterthought, John, please take a look at the GOP vs. Dem turnouts and fundraising this election cycle and tell me that the Democratic Party is failing.
The fact is, it’s thriving, and is going to kick serious butt this November. I know you are a new Democrat, but try to get the lay of the land before you start telling Dems how to be Dems.
Jen
Well, hell, let’s throw in some feats of strength, a talent portion, and a Lightning Death Trivia Round. That would at least make good TV and Hillary wouldn’t be able to wear her bumblebee yellow Sgt. Pepper pantsuit of the blind.
The Other Steve
If you look at the GOP cycle… It is a coronation. The person hand selected by the party elders, ALWAYS gets the nomination.
Ford, Reagan, Bush, Dole, Bush, McCain. Every one was selected by the elite in the party. So why do they even bother holding primaries?
Punchy
In other easily understood news, gluons and muons make up subatomic sting theory particles necessary for Strong Force interactions to be the dominant mechanism for intramolecular attractiveness between adjacent phenyl groups.
The Other Steve
I’m afraid of this subatomic sting.
Jen
Ya might have to meet him halfway and read the link, Punch.
ThymeZone
Well, that does sound rather like something North Carolinians would go for. Try it out, it’s your party down there. Let us know how it works out.
In Arizona, we just stick to rodeo rules. I like the barrel races, myself. And of course, the monkey riding the dog. Who can resist that event?
Dennis - SGMM
Well put. From my amateur historian perspective I’d say that the most highly organized political parties are the ones who end up doing the most damage worldwide.
Jen
Monkey on the Lamb is where it’s at.
Do you have mutton-busting, where kindergartners ride sheep? I saw that at the Rodeo de Santa Fe.
North Carolinians, Jim Hunt in particular, are pretty much responsible for the superdellies. I kind of hope we can make up for that next month.
Dennis - SGMM
This just in:
MSNBC is saying that NJ Governor and Clinton super delegate John Corzine has stated that he reserves the right to change his mind as to which nominee he will support.
Dennis - SGMM
Make that “which candidate he’ll support.”
ThymeZone
Arizona is cowboys, not sheepherders. Our stock don’t wear wooly coats. They’re meat animals. Our men rope dogies, they don’t do sheep shearing.
Brachiator
You left out tractor pulling and Hillary’s new favorite, sniper dodging.
cleek
so would George Bush declaring himself Perpetual President by virtue of his Article II powers during wartime.
but i thought we were talking about reality ?
ThymeZone
This is me getting off the horse to tie this one up, just this morning.
Yee Haw!
Punchy
I wuz slamming the Dem process, not Cole (for once). Besides, reading linx iz 2 diffy. Itz much e-z-er to fire off sumpin witty and stupid than logical and sensible.
Dennis - SGMM
Nice pic. Makes it impossible to see the little tuft of wool caught in your fly. :)
ThymeZone
Home, home on the range, cowboy. We do what we have to do.
Dennis - SGMM
LOL!
ntr Fausto Carmona
McCain was selected by the party elite? I thought that was the whole reason it was a toss-up: The elite were split between Ghouliani, Grampa Fred, and the Mittster, which let McCain and the Huckster to slip in to the lead.
Scrutinizer
U miz mi-q?
AkaDad
Dennis – SGMM
Phoenix Woman is a good person. My proof, you ask? She once praised one of my comments. If that isn’t proof of goodness, I don’t know what is.
tBone
Nope. You forgot to accuse them of racism. Why is not supporting Hillary racism? Shut up, that’s why.
KCinDC
Yow! Thanks for the recognition, John. I didn’t expect this much exposure. I intended to write a blog post tonight or tomorrow, after the committee has chosen the actual delegates.
It’s interesting that Punchy considers this to be on the level of advanced physics. I mean, it does require adding, dividing, and multiplying numbers, but we do have computers for that.
Short version: If you have 2 candidates who split the vote 76% to 24%, and you have 2 delegates to divide between them, then the winner gets 76% * 2 = 1.52 and the loser gets 24% * 2 = 0.48. That rounds to 2 delegates for Obama and 0 for Clinton, not 1 and 1.
sidereal
There’s significantly less KCinDC praise in this comment thread than is warranted. Actually getting involved in the political process is much cooler than textually bitching about it from your couch.
Also, I hear he did it under constant sniper fire
Jen
You’re right — go KCinDC! Apologies for sidetracking to mutton-busting. I am very pleased you got Obama another delegate by correctly applying math, which even I as a woman understood.*
*this is a snarky reference to earlier threads and not self-hating misogyny. kthx.
PeterJ
Has any Clinton surrogate called Lieberman a Judas?
KCinDC has given Obama what usually only a superdelegate can give. He’s a citizen superdelegate :)
tBone
Look, I’m textually bitching about it from my desk, not my couch, all right?
No, seriously, props to you, KCinDC. And remember: serpentine!
tBone
So, what you’re saying is he now has the power to the candidate’s countertops?
myiq2xu
I just dropped in to wish Dennis a Happy Birthday!
It’s my birthday too, but you’ve been using it longer than I have. Hoist a Sierra Nevada Pale ale on me.
While you’re celebrating give cbear a reach-around for me, okay?
Later dude!
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
This is why Broderesque tut-tutting about the perils of One-Party Government should the Democrats take control of both the WH and Congress should be treated like the swamp gas it really is. Expect to hear a lot of that this fall, especially if McCain starts to tank in the polls.
Punchy
Maybe just give O-bomb a really tall superdelly and Clinton the shortest one possible? Isn’t that more fair?
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
Hoorray! Slaughter the fatted calf!
The prodigal son ret..
..urns. Awww shiite – ‘es gone already.
What a freaking tease.
Happy Birthday to all you old geezers.
Fwiffo
Something similar happened in Mississippi. A commenter at Democratic Underground of all places noticed a tabulation error in the spreadsheet for the election totals. He called the Mississippi party before the finalized the results and they verified that he was right. The slight change in the total put Obama just over the 62.5% threshold (or whatever it was) netting him a net +2 delegates.
Scrutinizer
Nah, that would disenfranchise the voters in MI and FL—just ask pluck.
Besides, size-ist much?
(BTW—Wordpress sucks big green donkey dicks.)
KCinDC
Thanks, everyone. I wasn’t alone in the struggle, though. It took several of us to keep up the noise and get the Powers That Be to pay attention. I’m sure it would have been corrected eventually, but it’s better to avoid the mistake in the first place. I think they finally realized that the noise they were hearing from us was nothing in comparison to the noise they’d be inundated with shortly after their official announcement of an 11-4 split hit the delegate-obsessed portion on that blogosphere, which was expecting 12-3.
w vincentz
OT…Sadr is calling for a “million man” march on Apr 9.
If they turn out, Maliki will be gone, the US will be packing up.
McSame, whose based his entire campaign on the continuation of the current quagmire will have to do some really new thinking to keep his “legitamacy”. Hopefully, this will be over soon.
http://news.monstersandcritics.com/middleeast/news/article_1398121.php/Iraqs_al-Sadr_calls_for_million-man_march_12_killed_in_violence
Scrutinizer
A Million Man March? Oh, noes! al-Sadr->Farrakhan->Jeremiah Wright-> B. Hussein Obama!
Obama supports al-Quida in Iraq! Why does he hate America??
Dan
Did that blog post just vanish?
w vincentz
Scrutinizer,
Here, read a bit more…
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/04/03/8064/
Dennis - SGMM
Thanks! And thanks for showing up for me.
Scrutinizer
w. vincentz—
Yep. al-Sadr is calling for all sects to come together for his Farrakhan Million Man March. Who else is billing himself as the Unity candidate? Who else is trying to bring all the factions together? Yep, the Magical Unity Pony himself. It’s right in front of you: it would be irresponsible not to speculate on the Obama-Osama connection.
Dennis - SGMM
So it’s gone from Purple Fingers to The Finger.
L Boom
And now for Bush’s last trick, he manages to turn al-Sadr into Gandhi by helping him force out a colonizing power through non-violent protest. You’ve at least gotta give Bush some grudging respect for successfully defying all odds in the utter depths of his failure. Maybe next month he’ll manage to do something so utterly stupefying it’ll earn Mugabe a Nobel.
Zifnab
To be fair, the Republicans were pretty schizo until Super Tuesday. Rudy was the presumptive winner right up until the primaries actually started (and he had nodes from big pumbas like Pat Robertson and Roger Ailes). Romney was the default candidate from there – winning 2nd consistently place right up till Michigan. And when McCain finally did start winning, you wouldn’t have known he was the insider favorite given the amount of noise all the insiders were making.
I’m not sure the GOP actually knew who their candidate was going to be until we did.
JR
RE this comment about the Dem Party: “The fact is, it’s thriving, and is going to kick serious butt this November.”
Please note the Democratic Party has done almost nothing to cause itself to thrive or deliver any kind of serious butt-kicking, and has in fact done much to minimize it’s chances of electoral success and avoided kicking of any butt of any kind despite a plentitude of bent-over Republican ass. The coming landslide, if it occurs, is powered by the stink and destruction of the “Bad Cop” Party.
It’s the Good Cop’s turn, nothing more. Don’t get a big head about it, it will hurt more when it deflates. Ralph Nader was right, even if people somehow shove intertude electrodes up the donkey’s ass and zap it into zombie motion that roughly approximates governance.
Want to change such crappy attitudes as mine? Then let’s see one of the Dem candidates for modern Rome stop fiddling and grab a freakin’ bucket. See, these fantasies we gather about our “leaders” don’t translate into reality, yet that is where they cause disillusionment and pain.
w vincentz
Scrutinizer,
Unless you know something I don’t, there isn’t ANY connection with Sadr’s protest march from Najif to either Farrakan nor Obama.
What ever you’re smoking must be very good.
ThymeZone
As I said, the fact is that the turnout is huge, the money is there at the grassroots level, and the trend in congressional seats is still strongly Dem. The presidential election is ours to lose and we are not going to lose it. The party is thriving and if it took the Bush administration to wake it up, then fine, so be it. It’s awake.
And it is in no danger of losing to John McPain or losing back the congress.
Dork
So….why wouldn’t the US just carpet-bomb the whole march? Wouldn’t that, like, take out 1 million or so “insurgents”? Wouldn’t that, ya know, decimate the Medhi army? Isnt this akin to Deadbeat Dads Anonymous advertising their annual outdoor picnic to the local police station?
ThymeZone
Sure, in 1965 maybe.
When did David Broder start spoofing our blog?
Conservatively Liberal
It is a mess, and I would like to see better planning and organization in the future, but it is what it is. Maybe, for our sanity, they can go to a reverse Russian Roulette system in 2112? The pistol is loaded in all chambers but one, and the survivor gets the job.
Then again, maybe that plan would work better for the Republicans. ;)
KCinDC
Hmm, yes, it seems to have disappeared, Dan. Wonder what’s up.
ThymeZone
Uh, did you see their primary season?
That was their plan, and it appears to have worked.
The one guy who can’t raise his arms up to his head is still standing.
w vincentz
Dork,
If Sadr’s march comes off, no amount of carpet bombing will have any more of a desired outcome than Maliki’s recent attempt in Basra. Remember, the Iranians brokered the ceasefire.
The fact that Sadr can urge 5% of the remaining Iraqi population to participate speaks volumes.
In my opinion, it would be best for the US military to stay out of this. Our “supported troops” have already done enough damage to the Iraqi people.
Should the US support Maliki on this one, expect calls for war crimes trials from other nations that share the planet.
cbear
MYIQ-ey!!
Whass up homey?
Me and Dennis went out on a LURP into Hildyland looking for your mangy ass. I dropped smoke for you at No Quarter and Talk Shit…and barely made it back to base alive.
I figured you were KIA by fiendly fire, and there was nothing left but a small shit-stain on the information superhighway.
Are you getting enough to eat?
Are you keeping warm?
Remember, it only takes a minute to stop at a drugstore and get some protection…and considering your present company, I’d suggest you double-up with some industrial strength latex.
Zifnab
The Democratic Party Elite has done almost nothing. The grassroots organizations have been kicking ass and taking names for the last four years. The anti-war movement wouldn’t exist without grassroots Dems and Hillary would still be talking about her 40k troops in Iraq = sensible foreign policy bullshit on her cakewalk to the Presidential Nominee nod. Dean wouldn’t be DNC chair without the millions in grassroots donations, he’d be filing papers in the darkest basement party leadership could find.
We wouldn’t have the Senate Majority – slim that it is – without grassroots Dem activism. And we wouldn’t have seen the push back against making abortion illegal in states like South Dakota. Or the push back against theology in public schools in states like Alabama and Texas. Or the Green Energy movement. Big Oil Reps got dragged up to Capital Hill on April 1st. That’s not much, but it shows that Congress knows where public opinion lays. Three years ago, they’d be politely asked to advise their bought-and-paid-for legislators on how big a tax break they should be receiving.
After years of government excess, no one is talking about a new round of Bush Tax Cuts or another disastrous Roads Bill or – god forbid – a Patriot Act II. The Protect America Act is bleeding out on the Congressional floor as we speak. How did that occur if not by grassroots design?
Lieberman is right when he claims that the Dem Party isn’t the same party he ran with in 2000. It has been hijacked by “left-wing extremists”, assuming you conflate extreme left-wing activists with the core of the Democratic Party. We haven’t built up a majority coalition yet, and we’re still fighting hold outs in our own party as much as we fight opposition from the GOP. But slowly the national ship is changing course. There is a great deal to be said for that.
KCinDC
It’s back now, but has the wrong title. And there are wrong titles showing up in the sidebar also. I suspect that City Paper’s blog is having problems. Maybe it caught something through the Balloon Juice link.
Ted
I heard you did a GBCW and moped away to comment elsewhere. Is that true? Did you pull a Cartman?
TR
Off topic, but worth it:
1) The George W. Bush Legacy Project
2) A Thousand Words
D-Chance.
One has to only look at the nationals in 1960 and Washington in 2006 (and almost the nationals in 2000) to realize the only “reform” laws the Dems want is “first count in our favor, stop, we win!”.
BTW, our county just apportioned delegates. Obama won the primary vote 60/40, he gets 41 out of 45 delegates to the state convention. If Hillary and her gang weren’t so unlikeable, I’d almost have pity on them. They’re getting fucked over every step of the way.
KCinDC
D-Chance, what state are you talking about? If you have a primary, as you say, then where does a state convention come into it? For a primary, the delegate allocation can be calculated directly from the vote breakdown in each district and overall. There’s no trickiness involved unless the party has trouble doing math.
Cris
KCinDC: nice work! Reading the exchange between Mike DeBonis and yourself was a wonky good time. You are now immortalized with the catchphrase “Rule 13.D is the calulation method.”
Can you give us some details about the appeal process to the DNC? Did Don Dinan continue to maintain the 1-1 split?
Zifnab
Lulz! Care to back that up with anything concrete? Like links or statistics or even personal anecdotes? Or are you just throwing feces against the wall to see what sticks?
w vincentz
TR,
Thanks for the chuckle.
As far as naming a sewage treatment facility in Dubby’s honor, that might be a bit too nice. My compost pile, the one that’s loaded with worms, is named for him. And, of course, since I have four bathrooms in my house, each toilet is named and has a picture on the underside of the lid. There’s Dead-eye Dick, Condi, Rummy, and Gonzo.
Shucks, I’ll have to build a 3-holer in the back yard to continue the memorials. If you ask me about the Iraq war memorial I’ve been designing, think a huge urinal with the names inscribed behind the yellow waterfalls and the names of the assholes that voted to authorize the use of military force against Iraq inscribed on the base. It will be sited near the black wall in the ground that pays tribute to the lives that were pissed away in Vietnam.
This regime is all about a lot of shit, so reminicent of previous ones.
Liberal Masochist
KCinDC – i suspect D-chance is in texas… I am too and boy is it a screwy process down here. First primary, then caucus that night, then a month later they have conventions at the county level (but grouped by state senate district – go figure) to make sense of it all.
I sort of felt sorry for the Hillary people as well. In my district convention, the Obama people outnumbered the Clinton people, I don’t know, say 12 to 1. On top of that, they had nearly whole month between voting day and primary day to watch their candidates fortunes go south relatively speaking and they still had to show up or not get seated…
scrutinizer
w vincentz—
Jeez, do you need a snark tag before you recognize snark?
J. Michael Neal
The Washington Nationals didn’t exist until 2006; earlier incarnations were the Senators. You are comparing two different teams.
KCinDC
Unfortunately the other delegate selection at the meeting didn’t go so well (though Thomas seems to be saying different things to different people).