Late Night Open Thread

Have at it.






37 replies
  1. 1

    Seems to me that, five years on, everyone is still letting the Bush administration call the tune. Yes, the invasion of Iraq was an obscene and unequivocal mistake. But there’s a flip side to the story. If not Iraq, then who is responsible for making 9/11 happen? IMHO, the answer could not be more obvious:

    http://www.asecondlookatthesaudis.com

  2. 2
    JGabriel says:

    Are we still avoiding the primaries?

    Cause I’m really wondering who Condi Rice is gonna endorse.

    I mean, can you see her endorsing McCain?

    “John McCain is a genuine American hero and I… No, I’m sorry, I just can’t do it. Not again.”

    .

  3. 3
    JGabriel says:

    Are we still avoiding the primaries?

    Cause I’m really wondering who Condi Rice is gonna endorse.

    I mean, can you see her endorsing McCain?

    “John McCain is a genuine American hero and I… No, I’m sorry, I just can’t do it. Not again.”

    .

  4. 4
    JGabriel says:

    Just read the previous post on being wrong about Iraq, and just wanted to say: Thank you, John.

    I wish the rest of the pundits who got it wrong would be so honest in their response.

    .

  5. 5
    empty says:

    JGabriel Says:

    Just read the previous post on being wrong about Iraq, and just wanted to say: Thank you, John.

    I don’t see where the thank you comes in. John Cole was one of the many assholes who cheered for a war as a result of which hundreds of thousands of innocent people died. That he now recognizes that what he did was wrong is a good thing – for John. Maybe he will come to some understanding of the basic humanity of every individual human being regardless of their color, ethnicity, religion, or nationality, and grow as a human being. It does not erase whatever complicity he had in helping fan and keep lit the flames of war and slaughter. I don’t expect or want him to somehow justify himself. Nor do I see any reason whatsoever to thank him. None.

  6. 6
    Soylent Green says:

    Okay, he was complicit. So were a lot of people. Let’s put up a big wall to separate those of us who were right all along from all those other people. Then we will be protected from ever moving forward together as a nation.

    That you now recognize that what you did was right is a good thing — for you.

    In other words, your righteousness is good for nothing.

  7. 7
    empty says:

    In other words, your righteousness is good for nothing.

    While yours is a wonder to behold. Read the damn post. I did not say anything about putting up a wall. What I did object to was the fluffing. He was wrong about something truly consequential. He has figured it out. Good for him. Let’s move on. But to thank him? For what exactly?

  8. 8
    bryanD says:

    I’m wondering if the passport record pilferers were acting as conduits for Mossad, and if so, were they outed by the native State Department Anglophiles.

  9. 9
    Andrew says:

    I’m wondering if the passport record pilferers were acting as conduits for Mossad, and if so, were they outed by the native State Department Anglophiles.

    I bet it was Illuminati operatives operating under the guise of the Trilateral Commission.

  10. 10
    Soylent Green says:

    But to thank him? For what exactly?

    For opening his mind. I don’t know the man; for me he is a proxy, representing millions of Americans I hope will open their minds and cross over from the dark side. If I refuse to show them any welcome, they might as well stay put.

    Is forgiveness that foreign a concept to you?

  11. 11
    Splitting Image says:

    I’m thinking that the real motive behind Obama’s Big Speech wasn’t so much the “race issue” so much as the Iraq War.

    Sure enough, the speech got played as a response to the Wright brouhaha, but it strikes me that he listed point by point all of the reasons the surge strategy failed in Iraq.

    Think about it. Iraq is beset by racial and religious issues that predate the discovery of North America and the realization that Africa had some lucrative exports. Opportunity is much more of a “zero-sum” game there than it is in larger and richer countries like the U.S., and resentment has built on every side of the fence as people saw the other groups take advantage of everything they could.

    Into that mix, the U.S. set up a government patterned after its own, where people like Karl Rove can build a 50%+1 coalition and create opportunities for themselves by screwing over whoever gets slated to be the country’s Democratic Party. Resentment turned to resistence, and the government can’t work because nobody trusts the other parties to set aside their differences and work together. The U.S. can’t lead by example because this country is also full of the same kind of problems and half the country laughs at the idea of moving beyond them.

    How can it possibly work in Iraq where the resentments are much greater and the risks of trusting the opposition and being betrayed are much greater? The George W. Bush of that country would not be George W. Bush. He’d be Saddam Hussein.

    And yet… many of the same people who scoffed at Obama’s lofty ideals were the same ones who committed troops to invade Iraq, and more troops to create “breathing space” so that the reconciliation they are convinced cannot happen here, no matter how many years we give it, could happen there within only a few months.

    Doesn’t seem likely, does it?

    I have a hunch that Obama is going to be turning more and more to this theme as the campaign goes on. If he’s really succeeded in penetrating people’s minds with what he said about America (and I noticed that a few war supporters considered the speech to be full of warmed-over truisms, oblvious as usual to the irony), then he may yet win the debate on Iraq.

  12. 12
    empty says:

    Is forgiveness that foreign a concept to you?

    No it isn’t. Fluffing is. Welcoming his awakening is one thing. Gratitude to him is something totally different. And no, I do not feel grateful to him. To say I am glad you changed your mind is very different from Thank you. If you want to see the latter peruse the previous thread.

  13. 13
    Cassidy says:

    empty Says:

    Get over yourself.

  14. 14
    John Cole says:

    I think it is weird people are thanking me. That being said, I think it is weird people are making an express point to not thank me.

    And I think it is well past my bed time.

  15. 15
    empty says:

    Get over yourself.

    Couldn’t have said it better myself.

  16. 16
    Dennis - SGMM says:

    I think it is weird people are thanking me. That being said, I think it is weird people are making an express point to not thank me.

    This weird person thanks you. And, because you’re a professor: I ain’t seen nobody lay it all out like that in forever.

  17. 17
    mark says:

    I think it is weird people are thanking me. That being said, I think it is weird people are making an express point to not thank me.

    Thanks for setting an example of what to do when you are wrong , unlike the current squatter in the White House.

    It does not erase whatever complicity he had in helping fan and keep lit the flames of war and slaughter.

    I don’t see him trying to “erase” it. There are enough wankers out there who are still in denial. Is it really helpful to beat up on someone with the integrity to come clean?

  18. 18
    Soylent Green says:

    Welcoming his awakening is one thing. Gratitude to him is something totally different

    .

    Fair enough, and I agree that in the previous thread the praise was inordinately fulsome.

    And I’m just as incensed as you by what we have done to the people of Iraq, and horrified by the prospect that we will go right on doing it indefinitely.

    To help make sure that doesn’t happen, I’ll give praise and thanks to anyone who gets behind the goal of getting out, even if they don’t “deserve” it.

    After a long fight with someone, if you want to move on, first you’ve got to shake on it.

  19. 19
    tBone says:

    It does not erase whatever complicity he had in helping fan and keep lit the flames of war and slaughter. I don’t expect or want him to somehow justify himself. Nor do I see any reason whatsoever to thank him. None.

    Is it “Be An Obnoxious, Sanctimonious Prick Day” where you live?

  20. 20
    TenguPhule says:

    And I think it is well past my bed time.

    Obviously you need a beer.

    Whatever happened to the beer blogging anyway?

  21. 21
    Fred F. says:

    Maybe a little off topic, but apparently Kate Beckinsale calls her vagina “Pharoah’s Tomb”. How about that?

  22. 22
    Dennis - SGMM says:

    It does not erase whatever complicity he had in helping fan and keep lit the flames of war and slaughter.

    If you paid your income tax any time in the past five years then you, too, are complicit in keeping lit the flames of war and slaughter. It isn’t as if any person on earth, other than George W. Bush himself, could have kept George W. Bush from making war in Iraq.

  23. 23
    myiq2xu says:

    If you payid your income tax any time in the past next five 30 years then you, too, arewill be complicit in keeping lit the flames of war and slaughter.

    Fixt

    (We put it on our Bank of China Visa card)

  24. 24
    ThymeZone says:

    He was wrong about something truly consequential.

    Well, about 80% or more of the country was equally wrong.

    I happened to be in the small percent of those who weren’t wrong, but you know what? I’m not patting myself on the back or condemning the people who got it wrong. I’m glad that so many have changed their minds, and I consider myself lucky to have been able to get it right.

    As for John, I continue to applaud his stance on this. What is bothering you, I haven’t figured out.

  25. 25
    myiq2xu says:

    Nor do I see any reason whatsoever to thank him.

    I too would not thank him. I will however, congratulate him for reaching enlightenment on this issue and give him props for having the courage to admit his mistakes.

    Good job John!

    That being said, I would suggest that in the present and future he be a tad bit more open-minded to the opinions of people who were right the whole fucking time.

    Just a suggestion.

  26. 26
    myiq2xu says:

    He was wrong about something truly consequential.

    Show me somebody who has always been right about everything and I’ll show you the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus and my flying saucer.

    You first

    Being wrong from time to time is human. Refusing to recognize when you are wrong is stupid. Failing to learn from your mistakes is why people get remarried.

  27. 27
    myiq2xu says:

    If you haven’t read Confluence, you should:

    We were supposed to be the good guys. We were the ones for counting every vote. We were disgusted with voter suppression in Ohio in 2004. We were the ones who hated Rovian tactics of smearing other people’s character. We were apalled when the Republicans tried to control their primaries in 2000 by essentially picking a candidate in advance and defaming John McCain in South Carolina with racist smears and innuendos.

    Riverdaughter has it going on. She’s easy on the eyes too.

  28. 28
    Shabbazz says:

    Coming out of the mountains today, I saw a car covered with homebrewed posters. As I got closer, I had my wife read aloud the message contained therein — “Lifelong Republican voting for Obama!”

    I challenge anyone to find a similar anecdote with the name “Hillary” replacing “Obama”.

    I know full well that N=1 in this instance, but I bet my left nut that the old chap who plastered his ride with “Hope” isn’t a lone instance…

  29. 29
    empty says:

    I seemto have gone to bed too early.

    John Cole:

    I think it is weird people are thanking me. That being said, I think it is weird people are making an express point to not thank me.

    OK, if you think it was weird for people to thank you, why think it is weird for other people to point out that it is weird for people to thank you? Is pointing out that it is weird to thank you the same as making an express point not to thank you?

    Soylent Green:

    I mostly agree with you. I’ll leave it there.

    TZ:

    As for John, I continue to applaud his stance on this. What is bothering you, I haven’t figured out.

    It wasn’t John that was bothering me. It was the gushing.

    Dennis:

    If you paid your income tax any time in the past five years then you, too, are complicit in keeping lit the flames of war and slaughter.

    True.

    It isn’t as if any person on earth, other than George W. Bush himself, could have kept George W. Bush from making war in Iraq.

    That might be true for any one person. I don’t think it is true for us as a collective. Our responsibilities are individual.

    myiq2xu:

    I too would not thank him. I will however, congratulate him for reaching enlightenment on this issue and give him props for having the courage to admit his mistakes.

    OK.

    myiq2xu:

    Show me somebody who has always been right about everything and I’ll show you the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus and my flying saucer.

    That wasn’t the point of the post.

    myiq2xu:

    Riverdaughter has it going on. She’s easy on the eyes too.

    And let me recommend Riverbend to you.

  30. 30
    jake says:

    How do I know the average American is a fairly decent, well behaved creature? For starters, the CEOs of Bear Stearns haven’t been burned at the stake, drawn, quartered and tossed into the Hudson.

    Other collectibles being touted include white T-shirts emblazoned with:”I invested my life savings in Bear Stearns and all I have left is this lousy t-shirt.”

  31. 31
    John S. says:

    That being said, I would suggest that in the present and future he be a tad bit more open-minded to the opinions of people who were right the whole fucking time.

    Being open to dissenting opinions is good advice for anybody.

    But you seem to playing the same gambit that p.lukasiak did in the other thread, which is “I was right about Bush so I’m right about Obama”. I was also “right the whole fucking time” and my political disaster-o-meter points towards Clinton – not Obama.

    So while I agree with the first part of your statement, I find the insinuation in the latter part to be quite absurd.

    You can be ‘right’ for the wrong reasons just as easily as you can be wrong for the ‘right’ reasons.

  32. 32
    John S. says:

    Riverdaughter has it going on.

    Riverdaughter’s milkshake tastes just like mine! Yum!

    We have the DNC disenfranchising what they must have known in advance was going to be a pro-Hillary state- Florida.

    I didn’t realize you enjoyed conspiracy flavored milkshake.

  33. 33
    w vincentz says:

    Bill in Chicago,
    A “mistake”?
    NO.
    The invasion was intentional. This action can not be excused so easily.

  34. 34
    James B. says:

    The War in Iraq brought freedom to an oppressed people. Sure, everything hasn’t gone right. Look up “blunders of World War II” if you think anything ever has, in war. But we got rid of Saddam, and that’s made quite a few people breathe easier. Old friends and new friends, alike.

    I’m looking for the next Administration to open a dialogue with Iran. We killed off their Number One bad guy, now it’s time for them to leash Hezbollah and start treating their own people with some decency and respect.

  35. 35
    Soylent Green says:

    We would be more secure right now if we could resurrect Saddam and put him back. And so would the Iraqis, whose unstable, ungoverned freedom has brought them murder, terror, misery and squalor with no end in sight.

    I’m looking for the next Administration to open a dialogue with Iran. We killed off their Number One bad guy

    What planet are you from? Iraq is not Iran.

  36. 36
    myiq2xu says:

    Riverdaughter’s milkshake tastes just like mine (myiq’s)! Yum!

    That sweet white sticky goo you’re lapping up isn’t “milkshake.”

    One cam direct from the tap, otherwise it’s the same stuff.

  37. 37
    w vincentz says:

    James B,
    I really hope you’re kidding. Geesh!
    Do you listen to what you type?

Comments are closed.